January 2, 2025 • 41 mins
We are talking about the deeply emotional and often taboo topic of money, especially as it relates to parenting.
Guest, Khara Croswaite Brindle shares her journey into the field of financial therapy and sheds light on the unique challenges parents face. Like psychological weight of financial fears and the practical considerations of budgeting for the costs of raising children.
Money is never just about dollars and cents. What us mother’s know is that money is also about exhaustion, comfort, and survival. Financial therapist, Khara Croswaite Brindle reminds us that compassion is essential when reflecting on our financial decisions.
What need was left unmet? What led you here? Instead of judgment, try curiosity. Instead of shame, try understanding.
You're human. It’s not the mistakes that define you, it’s how you move forward.
We talk about:
- The Emotional Weight of Money: How inherited beliefs and personal fears shape our financial decisions.
- The Real Costs of Parenthood: From childbirth expenses to everyday spending habits, Brindle breaks down how to adapt budgets for family life.
- Predatory Marketing and Parental Guilt: Insight into how marketers target parents’ pain points and practical strategies to navigate these pressures.
- Curiosity and Compassion in Financial Healing: Why approaching money conversations with understanding instead of judgment is essential.
- Generosity and Stability: Balancing financial generosity with the need to maintain personal financial security.
About Khara:
Khara Croswaite Brindle, MA, LPC, ACS, CFT is passionate about giving people aha moments that create goosebumps and catalyze powerful action. She is a TEDx Speaker, licensed mental health therapist, and financial therapist in Colorado. Khara enjoys various roles as a serial entrepreneur, author, professional speaker, professor, and consultant. Khara specializes in helping therapists and financial therapists turn pain points into possibilities through consultation, courses, and supervision. She is originally from the Pacific Northwest and gets her best ideas walking outside and being around water. When Khara’s not writing her next book or supporting fellow professional helpers on their own self-discovery journeys, she enjoys spending time with her daughter, reading, and indulging in gluttonous, gluten-free desserts with her family.
Connect with Khara:
https://croswaitecounselingpllc.com/financial-therapy
Learn more about the Redefining Us Monthly Community - https://wellmindedcounseling.com/redefining-us-community
Please leave us a review or rating! These help get the show out to more women like you wanting to have these conversations.
Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling
I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZT9P3RB?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&bestFormat=true
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Don't get caught up in what things cost right in
(00:01):
this moment as you're listeningto this podcast.
Check the numbers when you'reready as part of your planning
process of like, hey, I havenine, almost 10 months
potentially, hopefully.
The plan isn't saying do I needto change what the budget looks
like if I have a budget or inour case, a conscious spending
plan of what do diapers cost?
How many of them am I going toneed?
I remember trying to figure outhow many I had to carry in the
diaper bag if I was gone all daywith my baby.
(00:23):
What's the math?
I don't know.
Do I need seven?
Do I need 10?
How much is this kid going tolet go of all the things?
And so...
I think for a lot of people,they get stuck in, here's what
my budget or my grocery bill wasbefore kids.
But now we need to reevaluatewhat it is now.
So that's a tidbit for thelisteners.
Don't go off old numbers.
Re-evaluate at the three-monthmark.
Your baby is now three monthsold.
(00:43):
What are the costs coming in?
Is it diapers?
Is it formula?
Is it other stuff?
Don't work with old numbersbecause you're setting yourself
up to fail.
And then now we have shape oflike, oh, I can't even keep to
my budget.
It's not real estate for afamily of three, four, five,
whatever that may be.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
This is Redefining Us, and I'm your host, Stephanie
Contrera, licensed professionalcounselor.
And I'm so glad that you joinedus today so we can dive into
what it means to be a woman intoday's society, figuring out
how we balance everything, howwe grow, how we be more
authentically us and figuringout who we are through the
(01:21):
transitions of life, whetherthat be motherhood, success,
relationships, and all thingsthat have happened in women's
lives, because it's definitelynot a linear journey.
And I think by talking about itand normalizing it and
validating, we can all risetogether and be the women that
we were meant to be.
(01:42):
So keep tuning in.
and I am so excited aboutjoining the conversation and
being in your ears each week.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
This is Stephanie Contrahera,licensed professional counselor,
and today I have with me KaraCrosswhite-Brindle, who's also a
(02:04):
licensed therapist,entrepreneur, and a financial
therapist.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Excited to talk about all thingsmoney.
Woo! Woo! Yeah, that's a topicthat I think a lot of people
maybe want to talk about, butdon't actually talk about.
It's kind of going back to alsothe theme of this podcast, too,
is talking about taboo thingslike sex, postpartum, pregnancy,
(02:26):
all the intricacies of thingsthat people are like, let's
maybe minimize the impact thatthis has on our lives, which
money has a huge impact oneveryone's lives, even if they
don't say it does.
That's right.
Mm hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Yep, we can definitely affirm that
throughout this episode.
SPEAKER_04 (02:42):
Yes.
Yeah, so I want to really talkabout your journey of why this
is important to you to startoff.
So yeah, let's just start there.
Why becoming a financialtherapist?
Why was that part of yourjourney?
Why did you feel inspired to godown this route?
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Yeah, so in the pandemic, I was bringing it up
for the second timeprofessionally in my career.
So I saw the same warning signs,knew what they were this time
around.
My first burnout journey, ittook me about two years to
recognize I was in it and abouta year to recover.
So I was like, let's not do thatagain.
So in the pandemic, it wasactually like end of 2020, early
2021, where I really felt thesymptoms.
Like we all white knuckled itthrough 2020.
(03:20):
Like everyone's in the samerocky ocean kind of analogy
there.
And in 2021, I was working on aproject as an entrepreneur.
I'm always building something.
And I interviewed a financialtherapist.
I'd never heard of one before.
I found one here in Colorado.
I interviewed her.
After 20 minutes of interviewingthis woman, The next day, I
pitched that I wanted to be acontractor under her to learn
the craft.
(03:40):
So I had this light bulb momentof this is the intersection of
the work I do with therapistsand helping them build their
businesses.
So I worked under her, mentoredunder her for about six months,
pursued certification.
And here we are, several yearslater, doing all sorts of things
with financial therapy.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You even have a book coming outsoon, specifically around money
and Enneagrams, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Totally do.
Yes.
So nerdy not about Enneagramright
SPEAKER_04 (04:09):
now.
Can't help myself.
That's fair.
I feel like I also, I'd reallyidentify with the Enneagram more
so than any other type or styleof personality things out there.
So I hope that it's a reallygood book for everyone to pick
up on, especially if you havemoney issues or, again,
identifies strongly with yourEnneagram type.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm excited to tell people moreabout it when it launches.
SPEAKER_04 (04:32):
Yeah.
So we're also here to talk abouthow money impacts parenthood and
how you make decisionsdifferently when you now have a
child to, you know, think aboutwhen it comes to where your
dollars go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
So first thought I had when youwere like, let's talk about this
was my own personal journey,which hopefully my spouse, if he
listens to this podcast later,won't be like, ah, you aired all
our dirty laundry.
But when we decided we wanted tohave children, we started that
decision process in 2020.
A lot of, I think, millennialparents did because they're
like, huh, life is changing.
Priorities are shifting.
(05:08):
Well, I went back intoworkaholism.
So I was like, I work from homeall day, every day.
So my schedule didn't have theparameters that it does now.
And something clicked where Iwas like, I'm not getting any
younger.
I'm considered an eldermillennial.
It's a thing.
And at that point, I starteddoing some research.
And it said that to have achild, you have to have at least
$12,000 saved to have one.
Just to birth a baby, that'sassuming you have health
(05:31):
insurance.
That's assuming you have goodhealth insurance.
But you need$12,000 just for themaintenance of the aftercare,
last-minute co-pays, things likethat.
And I was like, huh.
And at the time, as your facejust showed, I was like, that
feels like a lot of money.
And then in contrast, you thinkabout raising a child from zero
to 18, and they say that's now$250,000 to raise them.
(05:53):
True.
including extracurriculars, likethings they want to do after
school, sports, creativity, thatkind of thing.
And for a lot of people, I thinkthis prevents them from becoming
parents.
Like I heard from my spouse, canwe financially afford a kid?
That was his worry.
And we think about having asecond child.
This came up again.
I don't think we can afford asecond kid was his narrative.
(06:13):
We ended up not deciding to havea second kid for other reasons,
but that was really a stickingpoint for him.
So anyone who's listening tothis right now who's feeling
validated of like the financesare what's preventing me from
expanding my family, there'ssomething valid there.
My brother-in-law, just anotherstory to highlight this, his
wife went into labor at 32weeks.
(06:35):
The baby was super tiny, likebaby was four pounds, I think,
maybe only just four pounds.
When he got the hospital bill,he has really good insurance.
Let me say that before we put apanic attack status on your
listeners.
He has really good insurance.
Thank goodness.
When he got the bill, it was$600,000 for his baby to be in
the NICU for 34 days, for hiswife to have a C-section.
(06:58):
$600,000.
And so this narrative makessense.
It's not out of nowhere.
It's not out of scarcity.
It's because it does cost moneyto have a kid from beginning to
birth and even after.
It's so
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
wild to think about that.
I've had people ask me like, oh,how much money did it cost to
have your child in a hospital?
Like not like just randompeople, people in my life.
And I'm like, well, we also havereally good insurance, but it
also costs.
I'm not even sure if I remember,but it was definitely over a
thousand dollars.
And I know a lot of people inAmerica or even people that are
(07:33):
listening, maybe don't even havethat kind of money saved to put
towards insurance.
health care costs.
So now you're on a payment planor now you're putting on a
credit card or you're doingsomething.
And then, of course, that bringson more financial burden and
stress.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, out of curiosity, as afinancial therapist, I looked at
all of my statements and itadded up to about twenty five
thousand dollars to have our kidwith insurance covering most of
that.
So we paid about the twelve.
So it was actually right ontrack for what I'd researched.
I've had twelve thousand.
It wasn't all at once.
It was kind of, you know, forthe next year after her birth
because they were billing stuffand processing stuff.
(08:11):
So that was kind of irritatingif I'm being honest as a human
to just not be done with it forabout a year.
But just to see that number andthat was with a traditional
birthing process with aninduction because again, older
millennial person here on yourpodcast.
But if I'd had any kind ofcomplications or maybe and I had
to stay longer than that waitingperiod before you went home, of
course, this would have rackedup.
(08:33):
Not to mention all the folks whohave premature babies.
And now are in the NICU and havea$600,000 statement saying this
is what it costs to all thoseproviders to help you and your
baby.
It's just wild.
SPEAKER_04 (08:44):
Yeah, I actually last week got my final statement
from having my baby in 2023.
This 2024, when we're recordingthis, she's over 13 months.
And it wasn't a large bill, butI was like, okay, I hope this is
the last one.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Right?
Yes.
Why is this a year?
Same.
I had the same thing.
She's turned a year old.
Why am I still getting bills andstatements about this?
It's crazy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:10):
Yeah.
And I do think we all value thehealthcare professionals that
help give our birth and our babysome stability and a safety net.
And so I don't want to soundlike we're mad at healthcare,
but it's just so expensive totake care of yourself in today's
world with the amount of Yeah.
(09:32):
Risks and et cetera, et cetera,that go into having birth.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of peopleexperiencing infertility.
And so those are extra coststhat insurance sometimes doesn't
even pay for.
There's a lot of emotionalelements to money, which is why
financial therapy exists,because we're all about healing
your relationship with money.
You know, statements like moneyis emotional.
I would rather talk about oursex lives than our money lives.
So here you are talking abouttaboo topics.
Absolutely.
(09:56):
Money is part of that becausethey don't even want to talk
about it.
And so I think there are plentyof parents or soon-to-be parents
that are looking at the numbersgoing, can we afford to have a
child?
When we look at child care,which you and I both have
children in child care rightnow, there's lots of factors
here.
And absolutely, I loved thenurses.
I loved the doctors.
I had a great experience in mybirth.
(10:17):
And it made me pause of, could Iexpand my family, which we've
decided not to do at the time ofthis recording.
And part of it was financial.
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Yeah.
I mean, the child care costs, Ihear that from so many people,
whether they're just people inmy life or clients work, pay my
mortgage, keep my kid inchildcare, feed them, maybe take
a day off even, like what aconcept.
It's just, yeah, the financialburden of going down the journey
(10:45):
of parenthood is large and Iimagine does make a lot of
people pause.
And there's constantly newsarticles, like you mentioned,
kind of coming out that it coststhis much amount of money to
have a kid or you need to bemaking this much money in order
to live comfortably and have akid.
And it's like, gosh, it makessense why millennials are just
(11:06):
waiting longer and why birthrates are kind of potentially
slowing down or stagnant.
I'm not really sure what thedata is around there.
I haven't done too muchresearch, so I don't want to
talk at a turn.
But I know there's articles thatget posted around like, oh,
millennials are not having kidsbecause of X, Y,
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
and Z.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I think you and Isocially, I can only speak for
myself, but I'm seeing a lot ofpeople have a second child.
So I think there are plenty ofpeople who are figuring out how
to make it work, but we're notgoing and asking them, tell me
about your finances.
How much debt do you have?
What's on your credit card?
Are you going to pay for this?
We're not having these reallyintimate slash invasive
(11:46):
conversations of how are youaffording your second, third,
fourth kid?
Some people are making it work.
Is it because they have a greatjob?
Possibly.
Do they have limited debt?
Maybe.
We don't have the full pictureand we have lots of judgments
coming out about how that looksand how they're making that
happen.
I mean, child care alone, youknow, now we're at, what,$4,000
in child care?
It's wild.
(12:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:08):
I even would love for the word evasive to be
changed in our culture when wetalk about money, because I
think transparency does helpeliminate anxiety and eliminate
shame.
around money.
But yeah, everyone keeps thedollar signs close to their
chest and they don't want toshare what they spend on X, Y,
(12:29):
and Z.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Yeah.
I mean, this comes up in themental health field all the time
when we ask our colleagues, whatare you charging?
And they're not telling you orit gets really weird and
emotionally interesting.
So yeah, I think the more we cantalk about this with your
audience, the more they can makean intentional choice of if I
want children, maybe it's nowabout saving to have those
children.
That's what I ended up doing asa private practice therapist and
(12:53):
mother.
I saved for maternity leavebecause no one's paying me to
take time off from my ownbusiness except me.
And that itself felt like aprivilege to have enough money
to take four months off if Iwanted to.
I ended up just taking three,but I had a fourth month
cushion.
that I gave myself because Ididn't know.
I was a first-time mom.
I didn't know what my body wasgoing to do, what my mind was
going to do, what my baby wasgoing to be like.
(13:14):
And then being able to also savefor her birth and be like, all
right, I can pay whatever billcomes in, however annoying or
triggering it may be.
I have the money ready.
And so that was my journey.
But I know a lot of familiesthat feels like privilege that
they are living paycheck topaycheck and they do not have
savings for this journey thatthey're about to go on.
SPEAKER_04 (13:33):
Yeah.
And I also want to doacknowledge that Because we live
in Colorado, at least now,there's the FMLAI, which helps
cover maternity leave.
But I know it was not activeboth when you and I had our
kids.
It just became active this yearof 2024.
But even that, there'slimitations on how I think
(13:55):
successful it is if youremployer doesn't decide to cover
your health care costs whileyou're on that leave because
they can make the decision tonot cover maternity.
their employer side.
So then you might get a billpaying your entire insurance out
of pocket.
So great that the state ofColorado is doing that.
But I think there could alwaysbe more done to protect
(14:16):
families.
And more
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
about that transparency.
This is how it works.
Here's how it doesn't work.
Here are the limitations.
There's so much we're learningand finances continue to change.
Right.
So at the time of thisrecording, we're saying twelve
thousand dollars is what youneed minimum to have this buffer
to have a child.
Maybe that number goes up to20,000 next year.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm not planning to havemore children, so I'm not
tracking it to that level, but Iwouldn't be surprised because of
(14:40):
cost of living and inflation.
The number is going to keepclimbing.
Just like the number to raise achild zero to 18 has gone out to
250,000.
That wasn't always the case.
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious as a financialtherapist, when you're working
with therapists or people whoare trying to think this through
and talk it through and healtheir money stories around can
they afford something?
What is your general approach tothat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, for a lot of these folks, it's just
figuring out what their moneybeliefs are, which you and I
have talked offline about whatthat looks like.
But for your audience, moneybeliefs are on average, we have
50 to 200 of them and they driveour money behaviors.
So belief money is good, moneyis bad, money is opportunity,
money is power, money iscorrupt, money is evil.
It just depends on where you arecoming from.
(15:29):
Some of those money beliefs areours to own, and some of them
are our parents and ourgrandparents, and they've
instilled them in us.
So I have grandparents thatsurvived the Great Depression,
so I saw them save, save, saveand hoard, actually.
I had hoarders on both sides ofmy family.
There's a reason I have minimalstuff.
Because of that, it changes ourbehavior.
And so watching them put that onmy parents, who then put that on
(15:51):
my sister and me, It's no wonderthat we're both workaholic
entrepreneurs because we havethis vigilance about money
because that was passed on fromother two generations.
But sometimes it's doing thatkind of work, getting curious
about what are my money beliefs?
What are the beliefs of myfamily?
What do I want to hold?
And what do I want to let go of?
And so that's the money healingwork of financial therapy.
(16:12):
Once they do some of that workaround money beliefs, then we go
into the behaviors.
Do you want to have a savingsaccount?
Do you want to tackle debt?
What does that look like nowthat we've healed some things
first?
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
So
SPEAKER_04 (16:23):
it's both healing as well as pragmatic action.
It sounds like it's kind of atwo-step approach to working
with people when dealing withfinances.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
Oh, yeah.
And a lot of the folks that comein, maybe they did pragmatic or
practical tips first and itdidn't stick, like a diet that
failed in 30 days becausethey're like, I didn't do any of
the healing I needed to do.
I still have this internal storyabout money, but you're telling
me just make a budget, whichsounds so Nippy here on your
podcast, the SaaS is there for areason because so many people
feel shame about budgets.
(16:56):
But financial therapists don'tactually like budgets.
We think budgets are bad.
We're all about consciousspending plans and knowing where
your money's going and havingthat curiosity without the shame
of, oh, I hit a limit and I wentabove it and now I failed at
life.
Yeah, it sounds pretty dramatic,but you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_04 (17:12):
I think there's a lot of things and a lot of
people potentially in articlesout there that have prescriptive
ways to deal with things,whether that's like you
mentioned already, how to manageyour food or how to, you know,
increase your sex life or how tomanage your money.
And OK, those might be helpfultips.
But if you don't feel the woundsthat have led to the behaviors
(17:34):
that you now need tips for,you're going to unfortunately
repeat the cycle.
At least that's what has beenshown over and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Yeah.
I mean, this, this image mightbe a little bit gross to some of
your listeners, but like to me,it's like a festering one that
we just slapped a bandaid on.
It's still infected.
It's still pussy.
We just put a bandaid over thetop saying there's your
solution.
It's contained now, but wedidn't actually heal in this
case, like eradicate theinfection, you know, the next
steps more possible.
(18:02):
I'm all about images.
That was probably a littlegraphic.
Sorry, listeners, but that's,That's it.
I'm
SPEAKER_04 (18:09):
laughing because I have a supervisor for my sex
therapy training and she givesthe imagery of hemorrhoid that
certain things are just likehemorrhoids.
And unless you actually dealwith it and heal with it, even
if it goes away for a while,it's going to pop back up and it
goes away for a while to popback up.
So we need to really fleshthings out and explore and heal
(18:33):
rather than just push down andignore.
So Yeah, I was just laughingbecause they're all so very
graphic.
Three of them, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
That's
SPEAKER_04 (18:41):
true.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, any pregnant person might actually understand
that.
I'm like, well, I've got mypregnant body.
Did X, Y, Z.
I know what a hemorrhoid is.
That's
SPEAKER_04 (18:54):
true.
Yeah, but I think your emotionsand mental health issues are
like that.
Even if you've maybe even healedsome of your money story, And if
another thing comes up andthere's still some lingering
things going on, you know, itcould redevelop and you might
need even more time workingthrough that problem with a
(19:14):
therapist or a financialtherapist.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah.
And I just posted yesterday, Iknow this will go out later, but
like I just posted about warningsigns with your money of what do
you need to be tracking?
So, you know, we have ahemorrhoid, we have an infection
wound.
We can also just go playful andsay the beach ball where we try
and show that that pops upsomewhere else.
That's what warning signs are.
Like, where's this popping up?
Are you starting to fight abouthow much you spent out with your
(19:39):
partner?
Are you fixating on how muchsomething costs?
Are you losing sleep at night?
Are you compulsively checkingyour bank account?
These are all money behaviorsthat aren't healthy by any
means.
They're on the extreme end.
And so whether it'shypervigilance or avoidance,
those are kind of the two endsof the spectrum.
Folks are trying to navigate,how do I have neutrality with my
money?
Which is where financial therapycomes in for a lot of those
(20:01):
people.
UNKNOWN (20:02):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_04 (20:04):
I think something that, you know, I'll just notice
or self-disclose and noticesomething that's happened for me
is becoming a mom with money islike, and I've noticed my mom do
this.
And again, like, love my mom,don't want to say anything
negative, but she'll spend moneyon all of her kids before she'll
spend money on herself.
And there's this pattern thatI've even noticed for myself.
(20:27):
Oh, let's get Ella five newoutfits or let's do this nice
thing for Elda's birthday.
But then when it came time tocelebrate my birthday or time
for me to buy something formyself, I'm like, oh, do I
really need that?
Should I actually spend thatmoney or should I save it?
Like, well, you know, who's tosay what's more quote unquote
valuable?
(20:47):
Both are probably equallyvaluable to some extent.
And so trying to even workthrough how you spend your money
in relation to your child, Ithink would probably be a huge
thing for people to work on infinancial therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners relate to that.
I'm like, you know, that thestate as we die for our kid,
we'd also like buy them anythingthey want.
Part of that is the heartstringsand attachment.
Part of that is consumerismsaying, hey, as a parent, you
don't know what you don't know.
So buy this new trinket, buythis newest car seat, buy this
new thing that's like Montessoriand awesome.
And then there's the runningjoke that they just want some
Tupperware and some pots andpans that are totally fine.
(21:22):
So there is a predatorycomponent here.
I remember coming across it as anew mom where it was like, Here
are all the thousands of dollarswe spend on cribs and high
chairs and strollers and thingswhen maybe the basic one was
just fine and still safe, right?
Because safety is stillimportant to me and probably to
you as a mother.
But I don't need all the bellsand whistles.
I don't want to go into debt$3,000 for this exclusive
(21:45):
stroller kind of example.
So I remember coming across anarticle that was like, hey,
we're actually preying onfirst-time parents who don't
know what they don't know.
We're saying this is the mostsafe thing.
This is the most vetted thing.
Buy this thing.
There's actually a sales andmarketing consumerism piece
here.
That's something else I justwanted to call out.
SPEAKER_04 (22:05):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I feel like I've had a lot ofconversations with other new
moms about this very specificthing where it's OK, this I
don't want to call out brands,but this very nice bassinet will
rock your baby to sleep and youneed this in order to survive.
Because otherwise you're goingto be sleep deprived and just
angry all the time.
And that's what's being said.
(22:27):
And so especially as a new mombeing sleep deprived, you almost
start believing that I need thisthing.
They're telling me that this isgoing to help my baby sleep,
which would then in turn help mesleep.
So I need, quote unquote, to buythis thing.
Yeah, it's definitely predatoryfor sure.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
And part of that is genius on their part because
they're looking at a pain point,which is a lot of new parents
are sleep deprived.
That's kind of a given.
And they're saying, how do Ispeak to that person?
How do I get to the pain pointand solve their problem?
So that marketing strategy oflike, hey, your baby needs to
sleep so you can sleep is likewin-win of why someone hears my
credit card.
Please give me that assonant ona kind of darker note.
(23:05):
This also is why scam artistsare so effective because they
look at your pain point.
They get you in your mostvulnerable, in this case, sleep
deprived, and they get you tosay yes to something you
actually didn't want.
So I'm not saying the bassinetcompany is the scam artist, but
it's the same mentality of let'sget you at your most vulnerable.
Maybe you're distracted, sleepdeprived, hungry, and we get you
to say yes.
And then you walk away going,how did that happen?
(23:26):
Well, I wasn't fully present.
I was sleep deprived.
I wasn't well.
Yeah.
And that's how scam artistsactually get you, which is a
different colleague's work thatI'm fascinated by.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:36):
It sounds like mindfulness is really important
when it comes to money.
and the way that you respond tothe triggers that are being
activated when you either hear asales pitch or you're on the
internet late at night scrollingof just, okay, how can I be
interacting with this moremindfully rather than, oh, I see
(23:56):
this Instagram story that tellsme I'm going to be able to
sleep.
I need to follow down the rabbithole to see what the product is
that they're selling me.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's just so muchhere to unpack for parents and
For a lot of people, it's juststarting with curiosity.
Mindfulness is what we aspireto, but first step, just be
curious.
Notice the reactions in yourbody.
Maybe do a quick body scan.
Here's my mental healththerapist's hat going up.
Where is that limit in your bodyto be like, okay, I'm vulnerable
right now.
I need something to shift.
(24:24):
And so curiosity is the firststep to combat that shame that
naturally shows up of what justhappened.
Why did I spend$3,000 that Ididn't have?
Curiosity can be a first stepfor a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04 (24:35):
Yeah.
I'd imagine...
Curiosity is a great first step,but I'm also hearing some need
for acceptance so we don't getstuck in that shame spiral.
Because I imagine, just again,speaking for myself, if I would
have woken up the next day andrealized that I spent$3,000, I'd
probably be sending myself intoa tailspin.
(24:56):
So just being gentle withyourself during that process, I
think, is really valuable for alot of people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
A lot of financial therapists talk about compassion
and zero judgment.
And that's what I think you justdescribed there.
It's not even acceptance.
It's just like some compassionof what was going on for me to
say that this was a purchasethat I needed in that moment.
What if my needs were neglectedfor me to go that direction,
right?
So a different, I'm in a part ofa mom group and I really
appreciate them because lasttime we met last month, they're
(25:26):
like, how do you know if yourneeds are being met?
This is a big question.
We're gonna ask this to fivemoms with our toddlers all
running around.
And it was like, huh, some of itis untapped needs lead to
behaviors.
In my case, sometimes untappedneeds lead to resentment.
And so that's where theemotional part of money comes in
of like, was I craving comfort?
So was I craving conveniencebecause I'm sleep deprived?
(25:47):
So I got everything delivered tomy door.
Was it, I thought that thisthing was going to help my baby,
which would help me.
There's so much emotional stuffwoven in here.
And that's why we also needcompassion.
You're human.
You're allowed to be like, theygot me.
That was great marketing.
I want that thing.
UNKNOWN (26:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
And you can own that and be compassionate with zero
judgment as you figure out howyou want to navigate that in the
future.
It's already happened.
How do we move forward?
SPEAKER_04 (26:11):
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that we're reallyhaving this conversation because
I feel like, especially in earlypostpartum for myself, I felt
like, gosh, I just needwhatever's going to quote
unquote help me solve theseproblems.
But I personally also had thismindset of, I'm not going to let
these companies get me.
Yeah.
Like I already knew a little bitabout marketing and how it
(26:32):
worked, just being in businessfor myself too.
So I was like, okay, I hear whatthey're saying.
And can I actually guaranteethat this is going to solve my
problem?
Absolutely not.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah.
And some of that's coming fromyour money beliefs, right?
Or your parents or grandparents,again, whoever instilled it in
you.
Because as you said that, I wastrying to think about how did I
show up as a first time mom?
Well, I knew my kid was going todestroy all clothes.
I didn't ask for new clothes.
I went to the secondhand kid'sstore because then I wasn't so
resentful at her when shestained something.
More true now than ever inpre-preschool as a two and a
(27:04):
half year old.
I'm not upset because I didn'tpay full price for said thing
that you have all over as of oneday at school.
But I think, you know, it justshows how subtle this can be
because I'm sitting herethinking about what did I do?
And it's my parents' beliefsthat were still there.
They were sneaky.
They were there being like, Tryand buy the high quality thing
once and never have to replaceit.
(27:25):
So I was like, I'm going to buythe car seat that moves into
four different positions.
So she has it until she's 10years old.
And I was like, that's totallymy dad.
I'm like, we're on this.
Well, it's Thread.
But that was what he instilledin me.
You buy the high quality thing.
You buy the brand you know andtrust.
You don't start with somethingbright, shiny, new.
You go with the brands you'veheard of for years and years.
(27:45):
And you invest in it and younever replace it because it's
going to stay with them.
And not all parents know thatstrategy.
But for some of your listeners,hell yeah, that was how I was
taught.
Not other people.
I want the new thing that mightmake my life even easier than
this thing that's been aroundfor 20 years.
But there's no right quoteunquote way to go.
But that curiosity of where didthat come from?
And right here in this podcast,I'm like, that's dad.
(28:06):
That's my dad.
Maximizer to a T.
Let's go buy the bulk thing atCostco versus I only need one.
But it's a cheaper price.
Buy it while it's on sale.
And that's so pervasive in myfamily.
So.
calling out all the peopletoday.
I
SPEAKER_04 (28:23):
can really, yeah, I guess that was my story too.
I have a high chair thattechnically is supposed to go
with her until she's in abooster seat.
Obviously doesn't need that as anewborn when she first used it
at six months, but you know,supposedly it's going to last me
forever.
And I'm like, oh, that's a goodinvestment, Stephanie.
Good job.
I even sat myself on the backfor the decision.
(28:46):
Because, yeah, there's thislike, oh, I beat the system sort
of mindset.
And that definitely comes frommy parents and this idea of
being thrifty and out scamming,being the scam artist as the
purchaser.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Beating that system for sure.
Yeah.
And that makes us feelempowered.
So that's why I think all of ushave to just get curious of
where are these money beliefs?
What are they?
Where'd they come from?
Because they're just woven in.
And until we question them, wejust go with the flow.
oh, I didn't even second guessthat I made that purchase
because it felt so natural untilwe talk about it in a place like
(29:20):
this.
And it's like, huh, whose wasthat?
Is that mine to own or is thatparents or society or my first
boss or whatever system youbelong to?
They all have beliefs aboutmoney.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:33):
So many good things I feel like we could talk about
because I just had another idea,but that's going to take us down
a whole rabbit hole.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Chris
SPEAKER_04 (29:41):
Hager?
You can't do that to me.
Well, okay.
So that thought that I had whenyou were mentioning other people
in society were like people whoeither have been to church or
have been religious or have beenin a community where giving is
really helpful to maintainsociety and cohesiveness and
(30:03):
things like that.
Yeah.
And so for myself, I think,gosh, I was so grateful for all
the free clothes that I got as afirst time mom.
And I've repeated that cycle of,okay, I want to give everything
that I have to somebody who'salso been in that situation.
And I gave so much.
(30:24):
to one of my coworkers whohappened to be pregnant six
months after me.
I'm like, perfect.
You're also having a girl.
Perfect.
Let's just give you everything.
But I think to myself, that isdefinitely also another money
bleep.
Even though it wasn't actuallyexchange of dollars, it was this
mindset of, okay, I've beengifted something, so I need to
gift.
(30:45):
Even though I didn't really needto do that.
But again, it goes back to thismoney bleep.
mindset, even though there wasan exchange of, again, actual
dollars from hand to hand.
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
remember.
Well, yeah, on one hand, we'retalking about tithing, which
I've actually had financialtherapy clients who were still
tithing their church whilefinancially putting themselves
in distress, which is a truedefinition of noble poverty,
which is something I talk totherapists about all day, every
day.
So for listeners, noble poverty,quick definition, you put
yourself in financial distressto help others, right?
So whether that's your church ormaybe you're in a nonprofit or
(31:17):
you're a therapist or all thesepeople tend to go, oh, I didn't
know that was a thing.
And I feel called out.
On the other hand, to kind ofplay double-dog kit, other side
of the coin, I also was feelinglike I got a lot of things from
my family members who hadchildren before me.
So they passed on clothes.
And from that generosity, Ialso, like you, felt like I
(31:38):
wanted to be generous.
So because I didn't invest orpay for those things, I felt
even more comfortable givingthem away for free to the next
person down the line.
And so some of that is moneybelief.
Some of that is financialstability and saying, I don't
need to make money to sell thesethings back to someone.
And for me, it's actually partsuperstition.
I want the good karma that comesfrom helping other parents.
I'm like, please take thisthing.
(31:59):
I've kept it clean.
It's nice.
I definitely don't give it withcrumbs and nastiness still
attached to it.
But there's something that feelsreally good to me as a human to
pass on those things.
One, because I don't likeclutter.
I already outed that I havefamily members who are hoarders.
But two, it felt like I wasgiving myself good karma to say,
someone did this kindness forme, I'm going to do it for them.
(32:19):
So yes, I hear you.
It could be the religiousaspect, but also I think it
could be a values-based thing.
Hey, if I feel financiallystable, does that allow
generosity?
Which we do see with people ofall backgrounds.
If I have enough money, quoteunquote, I'm more likely to be
generous, like donations,sharing, gifting, that kind of
thing.
That's an interesting shift forpeople in financial therapy or
(32:41):
money work.
It took place with I amfinancially stable.
Now all possibilities areendless.
I can be generous for the firsttime without having to question
what will this cost me to dothat?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was just thinking it's soprevalent, at least in the mom
group that I'm in of like, oh,you need this thing.
I have extra or oh, you have.
This other thing, if you learnthis thing from your kid,
because he's three months olderthan my kid, let me share you
what I learned.
And you don't have to buy thatquote unquote product.
It's been sold on Instagram.
(33:13):
And so I think, yeah, I don'tknow if that's a way to continue
this work for yourself of justlike exploring what does it mean
to give and share and bereciprocal and to feel connected
to your community.
Because that's another reasonwhy I created this podcast is to
create community and createconnection between other people.
But that's one way that I feltgrounded in my experience of
(33:35):
becoming a new parent is knowingthat other new parents are kind
of going through the same thingthat I am.
And most of the people that I'verun into, at least in my circle,
have also been really generous,both with things and
information.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean.
This is the whole journey thatmost of us go on if we choose to
become parents or can becomeparents.
It's also just thinking, don'tget caught up in what things
cost right in this moment asyou're listening to this
podcast.
Check the numbers when you'reready as part of your planning
process.
Like, hey, I have nine, almost10 months, potentially,
hopefully.
The plan isn't saying, do I needto change what the budget looks
(34:09):
like if I have a budget?
Or in our case, a consciousspending plan of what do diapers
cost?
How many of them am I going toneed?
I remember trying to figure outhow many I had to carry in the
diaper bag if I was gone all daywith my baby.
What's the math?
I don't know.
Do I need seven?
Do I need 10?
How much does this kid get to,you know, let go of all the
things?
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, they get stuck at here's
(34:30):
what my budget or my grocerybill was before kids.
But now we need to reevaluatewhat it is now.
So that's, I think, a tidbit forthe listeners is don't go off
old numbers.
Re-evaluate at the three-monthmark.
Your baby is now three monthsold.
What are the costs coming in?
Is it diapers?
Is it a formula?
Is it other stuff?
Don't work with old numbersbecause you're setting yourself
up to fail.
And then now we have shame oflike, oh, I can't even keep to
(34:53):
my budget.
The budget's not up to date.
It's not realistic for a familyof three, four, five, whatever
that may be.
SPEAKER_04 (34:58):
Yeah.
And also looking at the budgetas prices change too, because I
think there's also some angerand resentment that probably
comes from the cost ofsomething.
Like, gosh, I thought this boxof diapers was$45 last month and
now it's$50 and now I'm pissedoff at the diaper company.
You can be upset about that, butunfortunately when it comes to
(35:20):
diapers, you either buy diapersor you get those...
cloth diapers and then have todo all the extra work that is
required there.
So whichever way you go,obviously there's still work and
investment involved.
So yeah, I'm trying to justnotice what you have control
over and what you don't and tryto figure out where you can
(35:42):
influence your circle ratherthan feeling completely out of
control.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Exactly.
Yeah.
never stagnant.
So we have to keep checking itout.
Maybe it's a quick money meetingwith yourself, three months, six
months, when the baby's a yearold.
The things you buy are going tobe different at all those
stages.
Now they're going to eat food atsix months and beyond.
That's going to change thebudget for lots of things.
Yeah, I think curiositycontinues to be the foundation
of everything we're talkingabout.
(36:07):
Just get curious, ask somequestions, look at some numbers,
which for those folks that arelistening who are avoidant,
that's a big deal to even justlook at your numbers and get to
know them.
Versus the hypervigilance, don'ttake that to the extreme.
Look at them once a day and callit good.
Don't compulsively check all dayas one example.
But yeah, even as I think abouthaving a two and a half year old
at the time of this recording,her needs at three are going to
(36:29):
probably look a little bitdifferent.
Maybe not dramatically sobecause she's not changing as
much as three months to sixmonths to nine months.
But it's an evolving thing.
And so none of us are going toalways have it figured out.
We have to continue to make aconscious effort to check it
out.
SPEAKER_04 (36:43):
Yeah.
Well, I want to thank you for,you know, coming on and talking
with everyone.
And yeah, what sort of thingsare you working on and where can
people find you?
And yeah, I'd love people tocontinue knowing what work
you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
Yeah.
So the book you mentioned at thebeginning of our episode today,
it's going to be called YourEnneagram and Money.
So it's going to look atEnneagram edges.
So there's the good edges ofwhen you're really succeeding
and healthy and balanced.
Then there's the shadow edges.
Oh, this is your warning signs.
You got to work on something.
which I think is why you and Ilove the Enneagram.
So here's all the shadow stuffyou want to improve and address,
(37:18):
which therapists love.
So that book is going to comeout hopefully January 2025.
The folks can hopefully followme on Instagram or wherever you
want to follow to see when thatbook launches.
It really was meant for underearners, which could be parents,
which could be mothers, whichcould be therapists.
Our audience is pretty broadthat way of who is not making up
enough money for the lifestylethat they want.
(37:38):
So that book's coming out.
All of my entrepreneur projectsare on my website, which I'm
sure Stephanie can link below ifyou want to.
But yeah, as a serialentrepreneur, I'm always
building something.
Specifically, I work withtherapists right now.
But as a mother, that isdefinitely now integrated into
my identity.
And so because a lot oftherapists identify as women and
potentially mothers, there's alot of intersection there.
(37:59):
And I'm really happy to do thiswork.
SPEAKER_04 (38:01):
Awesome.
Yes.
All of the information will belinked in the show notes on the
website.
And on the podcast so everyonecan find everything that you're
doing.
So thank you so much for comingon today.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
Thank
SPEAKER_04 (38:13):
you.
Thank you all for listening.
I hope you found someinspiration, validation, had
some questions answered, or justenjoyed listening to this week's
episode.
I encourage you to check out ourwebsite, well-minded
counseling.com backslashredefining us pod for any
(38:33):
resources that were mentioned intoday's episode.
Check out my new program on ourwebsite as well for first-time
moms, where you can join otherwomen entering into motherhood.
The program offers three phases,phase one, exploring where you
are on your journey towardsmotherhood and connecting with
this new identity.
Phase two, preparing your mind,body, and spirit for giving
(38:55):
birth.
And phase three, reconnecting toyourself while caring for your
baby.
I truly appreciate if you leavea review and rating so other
women can find us as well.
Thank you all for listeningagain and keep on connecting
with yourself and with others inthe community and redefining us.
Don't get caught up in what things cost right in
(00:01):
this moment as you're listeningto this podcast.
Check the numbers when you'reready as part of your planning
process of like, hey, I havenine, almost 10 months
potentially, hopefully.
The plan isn't saying do I needto change what the budget looks
like if I have a budget or inour case, a conscious spending
plan of what do diapers cost?
How many of them am I going toneed?
I remember trying to figure outhow many I had to carry in the
diaper bag if I was gone all daywith my baby.
(00:23):
What's the math?
I don't know.
Do I need seven?
Do I need 10?
How much is this kid going tolet go of all the things?
And so...
I think for a lot of people,they get stuck in, here's what
my budget or my grocery bill wasbefore kids.
But now we need to reevaluatewhat it is now.
So that's a tidbit for thelisteners.
Don't go off old numbers.
Re-evaluate at the three-monthmark.
Your baby is now three monthsold.
(00:43):
What are the costs coming in?
Is it diapers?
Is it formula?
Is it other stuff?
Don't work with old numbersbecause you're setting yourself
up to fail.
And then now we have shape oflike, oh, I can't even keep to
my budget.
It's not real estate for afamily of three, four, five,
whatever that may be.
SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
This is Redefining Us, and I'm your host, Stephanie
Contrera, licensed professionalcounselor.
And I'm so glad that you joinedus today so we can dive into
what it means to be a woman intoday's society, figuring out
how we balance everything, howwe grow, how we be more
authentically us and figuringout who we are through the
(01:21):
transitions of life, whetherthat be motherhood, success,
relationships, and all thingsthat have happened in women's
lives, because it's definitelynot a linear journey.
And I think by talking about itand normalizing it and
validating, we can all risetogether and be the women that
we were meant to be.
(01:42):
So keep tuning in.
and I am so excited aboutjoining the conversation and
being in your ears each week.
Let's get into it.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
This is Stephanie Contrahera,licensed professional counselor,
and today I have with me KaraCrosswhite-Brindle, who's also a
(02:04):
licensed therapist,entrepreneur, and a financial
therapist.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Excited to talk about all thingsmoney.
Woo! Woo! Yeah, that's a topicthat I think a lot of people
maybe want to talk about, butdon't actually talk about.
It's kind of going back to alsothe theme of this podcast, too,
is talking about taboo thingslike sex, postpartum, pregnancy,
(02:26):
all the intricacies of thingsthat people are like, let's
maybe minimize the impact thatthis has on our lives, which
money has a huge impact oneveryone's lives, even if they
don't say it does.
That's right.
Mm hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Yep, we can definitely affirm that
throughout this episode.
SPEAKER_04 (02:42):
Yes.
Yeah, so I want to really talkabout your journey of why this
is important to you to startoff.
So yeah, let's just start there.
Why becoming a financialtherapist?
Why was that part of yourjourney?
Why did you feel inspired to godown this route?
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Yeah, so in the pandemic, I was bringing it up
for the second timeprofessionally in my career.
So I saw the same warning signs,knew what they were this time
around.
My first burnout journey, ittook me about two years to
recognize I was in it and abouta year to recover.
So I was like, let's not do thatagain.
So in the pandemic, it wasactually like end of 2020, early
2021, where I really felt thesymptoms.
Like we all white knuckled itthrough 2020.
(03:20):
Like everyone's in the samerocky ocean kind of analogy
there.
And in 2021, I was working on aproject as an entrepreneur.
I'm always building something.
And I interviewed a financialtherapist.
I'd never heard of one before.
I found one here in Colorado.
I interviewed her.
After 20 minutes of interviewingthis woman, The next day, I
pitched that I wanted to be acontractor under her to learn
the craft.
(03:40):
So I had this light bulb momentof this is the intersection of
the work I do with therapistsand helping them build their
businesses.
So I worked under her, mentoredunder her for about six months,
pursued certification.
And here we are, several yearslater, doing all sorts of things
with financial therapy.
And I love it.
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You even have a book coming outsoon, specifically around money
and Enneagrams, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Totally do.
Yes.
So nerdy not about Enneagramright
SPEAKER_04 (04:09):
now.
Can't help myself.
That's fair.
I feel like I also, I'd reallyidentify with the Enneagram more
so than any other type or styleof personality things out there.
So I hope that it's a reallygood book for everyone to pick
up on, especially if you havemoney issues or, again,
identifies strongly with yourEnneagram type.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm excited to tell people moreabout it when it launches.
SPEAKER_04 (04:32):
Yeah.
So we're also here to talk abouthow money impacts parenthood and
how you make decisionsdifferently when you now have a
child to, you know, think aboutwhen it comes to where your
dollars go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
Yes.
Yeah.
So first thought I had when youwere like, let's talk about this
was my own personal journey,which hopefully my spouse, if he
listens to this podcast later,won't be like, ah, you aired all
our dirty laundry.
But when we decided we wanted tohave children, we started that
decision process in 2020.
A lot of, I think, millennialparents did because they're
like, huh, life is changing.
Priorities are shifting.
(05:08):
Well, I went back intoworkaholism.
So I was like, I work from homeall day, every day.
So my schedule didn't have theparameters that it does now.
And something clicked where Iwas like, I'm not getting any
younger.
I'm considered an eldermillennial.
It's a thing.
And at that point, I starteddoing some research.
And it said that to have achild, you have to have at least
$12,000 saved to have one.
Just to birth a baby, that'sassuming you have health
(05:31):
insurance.
That's assuming you have goodhealth insurance.
But you need$12,000 just for themaintenance of the aftercare,
last-minute co-pays, things likethat.
And I was like, huh.
And at the time, as your facejust showed, I was like, that
feels like a lot of money.
And then in contrast, you thinkabout raising a child from zero
to 18, and they say that's now$250,000 to raise them.
(05:53):
True.
including extracurriculars, likethings they want to do after
school, sports, creativity, thatkind of thing.
And for a lot of people, I thinkthis prevents them from becoming
parents.
Like I heard from my spouse, canwe financially afford a kid?
That was his worry.
And we think about having asecond child.
This came up again.
I don't think we can afford asecond kid was his narrative.
(06:13):
We ended up not deciding to havea second kid for other reasons,
but that was really a stickingpoint for him.
So anyone who's listening tothis right now who's feeling
validated of like the financesare what's preventing me from
expanding my family, there'ssomething valid there.
My brother-in-law, just anotherstory to highlight this, his
wife went into labor at 32weeks.
(06:35):
The baby was super tiny, likebaby was four pounds, I think,
maybe only just four pounds.
When he got the hospital bill,he has really good insurance.
Let me say that before we put apanic attack status on your
listeners.
He has really good insurance.
Thank goodness.
When he got the bill, it was$600,000 for his baby to be in
the NICU for 34 days, for hiswife to have a C-section.
(06:58):
$600,000.
And so this narrative makessense.
It's not out of nowhere.
It's not out of scarcity.
It's because it does cost moneyto have a kid from beginning to
birth and even after.
It's so
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
wild to think about that.
I've had people ask me like, oh,how much money did it cost to
have your child in a hospital?
Like not like just randompeople, people in my life.
And I'm like, well, we also havereally good insurance, but it
also costs.
I'm not even sure if I remember,but it was definitely over a
thousand dollars.
And I know a lot of people inAmerica or even people that are
(07:33):
listening, maybe don't even havethat kind of money saved to put
towards insurance.
health care costs.
So now you're on a payment planor now you're putting on a
credit card or you're doingsomething.
And then, of course, that bringson more financial burden and
stress.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, out of curiosity, as afinancial therapist, I looked at
all of my statements and itadded up to about twenty five
thousand dollars to have our kidwith insurance covering most of
that.
So we paid about the twelve.
So it was actually right ontrack for what I'd researched.
I've had twelve thousand.
It wasn't all at once.
It was kind of, you know, forthe next year after her birth
because they were billing stuffand processing stuff.
(08:11):
So that was kind of irritatingif I'm being honest as a human
to just not be done with it forabout a year.
But just to see that number andthat was with a traditional
birthing process with aninduction because again, older
millennial person here on yourpodcast.
But if I'd had any kind ofcomplications or maybe and I had
to stay longer than that waitingperiod before you went home, of
course, this would have rackedup.
(08:33):
Not to mention all the folks whohave premature babies.
And now are in the NICU and havea$600,000 statement saying this
is what it costs to all thoseproviders to help you and your
baby.
It's just wild.
SPEAKER_04 (08:44):
Yeah, I actually last week got my final statement
from having my baby in 2023.
This 2024, when we're recordingthis, she's over 13 months.
And it wasn't a large bill, butI was like, okay, I hope this is
the last one.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Right?
Yes.
Why is this a year?
Same.
I had the same thing.
She's turned a year old.
Why am I still getting bills andstatements about this?
It's crazy.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (09:10):
Yeah.
And I do think we all value thehealthcare professionals that
help give our birth and our babysome stability and a safety net.
And so I don't want to soundlike we're mad at healthcare,
but it's just so expensive totake care of yourself in today's
world with the amount of Yeah.
(09:32):
Risks and et cetera, et cetera,that go into having birth.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of peopleexperiencing infertility.
And so those are extra coststhat insurance sometimes doesn't
even pay for.
There's a lot of emotionalelements to money, which is why
financial therapy exists,because we're all about healing
your relationship with money.
You know, statements like moneyis emotional.
I would rather talk about oursex lives than our money lives.
So here you are talking abouttaboo topics.
Absolutely.
(09:56):
Money is part of that becausethey don't even want to talk
about it.
And so I think there are plentyof parents or soon-to-be parents
that are looking at the numbersgoing, can we afford to have a
child?
When we look at child care,which you and I both have
children in child care rightnow, there's lots of factors
here.
And absolutely, I loved thenurses.
I loved the doctors.
I had a great experience in mybirth.
(10:17):
And it made me pause of, could Iexpand my family, which we've
decided not to do at the time ofthis recording.
And part of it was financial.
SPEAKER_04 (10:25):
Yeah.
I mean, the child care costs, Ihear that from so many people,
whether they're just people inmy life or clients work, pay my
mortgage, keep my kid inchildcare, feed them, maybe take
a day off even, like what aconcept.
It's just, yeah, the financialburden of going down the journey
(10:45):
of parenthood is large and Iimagine does make a lot of
people pause.
And there's constantly newsarticles, like you mentioned,
kind of coming out that it coststhis much amount of money to
have a kid or you need to bemaking this much money in order
to live comfortably and have akid.
And it's like, gosh, it makessense why millennials are just
(11:06):
waiting longer and why birthrates are kind of potentially
slowing down or stagnant.
I'm not really sure what thedata is around there.
I haven't done too muchresearch, so I don't want to
talk at a turn.
But I know there's articles thatget posted around like, oh,
millennials are not having kidsbecause of X, Y,
SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
and Z.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I think you and Isocially, I can only speak for
myself, but I'm seeing a lot ofpeople have a second child.
So I think there are plenty ofpeople who are figuring out how
to make it work, but we're notgoing and asking them, tell me
about your finances.
How much debt do you have?
What's on your credit card?
Are you going to pay for this?
We're not having these reallyintimate slash invasive
(11:46):
conversations of how are youaffording your second, third,
fourth kid?
Some people are making it work.
Is it because they have a greatjob?
Possibly.
Do they have limited debt?
Maybe.
We don't have the full pictureand we have lots of judgments
coming out about how that looksand how they're making that
happen.
I mean, child care alone, youknow, now we're at, what,$4,000
in child care?
It's wild.
(12:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:08):
I even would love for the word evasive to be
changed in our culture when wetalk about money, because I
think transparency does helpeliminate anxiety and eliminate
shame.
around money.
But yeah, everyone keeps thedollar signs close to their
chest and they don't want toshare what they spend on X, Y,
(12:29):
and Z.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
Yeah.
I mean, this comes up in themental health field all the time
when we ask our colleagues, whatare you charging?
And they're not telling you orit gets really weird and
emotionally interesting.
So yeah, I think the more we cantalk about this with your
audience, the more they can makean intentional choice of if I
want children, maybe it's nowabout saving to have those
children.
That's what I ended up doing asa private practice therapist and
(12:53):
mother.
I saved for maternity leavebecause no one's paying me to
take time off from my ownbusiness except me.
And that itself felt like aprivilege to have enough money
to take four months off if Iwanted to.
I ended up just taking three,but I had a fourth month
cushion.
that I gave myself because Ididn't know.
I was a first-time mom.
I didn't know what my body wasgoing to do, what my mind was
going to do, what my baby wasgoing to be like.
(13:14):
And then being able to also savefor her birth and be like, all
right, I can pay whatever billcomes in, however annoying or
triggering it may be.
I have the money ready.
And so that was my journey.
But I know a lot of familiesthat feels like privilege that
they are living paycheck topaycheck and they do not have
savings for this journey thatthey're about to go on.
SPEAKER_04 (13:33):
Yeah.
And I also want to doacknowledge that Because we live
in Colorado, at least now,there's the FMLAI, which helps
cover maternity leave.
But I know it was not activeboth when you and I had our
kids.
It just became active this yearof 2024.
But even that, there'slimitations on how I think
(13:55):
successful it is if youremployer doesn't decide to cover
your health care costs whileyou're on that leave because
they can make the decision tonot cover maternity.
their employer side.
So then you might get a billpaying your entire insurance out
of pocket.
So great that the state ofColorado is doing that.
But I think there could alwaysbe more done to protect
(14:16):
families.
And more
SPEAKER_00 (14:19):
about that transparency.
This is how it works.
Here's how it doesn't work.
Here are the limitations.
There's so much we're learningand finances continue to change.
Right.
So at the time of thisrecording, we're saying twelve
thousand dollars is what youneed minimum to have this buffer
to have a child.
Maybe that number goes up to20,000 next year.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm not planning to havemore children, so I'm not
tracking it to that level, but Iwouldn't be surprised because of
(14:40):
cost of living and inflation.
The number is going to keepclimbing.
Just like the number to raise achild zero to 18 has gone out to
250,000.
That wasn't always the case.
SPEAKER_04 (14:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious as a financialtherapist, when you're working
with therapists or people whoare trying to think this through
and talk it through and healtheir money stories around can
they afford something?
What is your general approach tothat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, for a lot of these folks, it's just
figuring out what their moneybeliefs are, which you and I
have talked offline about whatthat looks like.
But for your audience, moneybeliefs are on average, we have
50 to 200 of them and they driveour money behaviors.
So belief money is good, moneyis bad, money is opportunity,
money is power, money iscorrupt, money is evil.
It just depends on where you arecoming from.
(15:29):
Some of those money beliefs areours to own, and some of them
are our parents and ourgrandparents, and they've
instilled them in us.
So I have grandparents thatsurvived the Great Depression,
so I saw them save, save, saveand hoard, actually.
I had hoarders on both sides ofmy family.
There's a reason I have minimalstuff.
Because of that, it changes ourbehavior.
And so watching them put that onmy parents, who then put that on
(15:51):
my sister and me, It's no wonderthat we're both workaholic
entrepreneurs because we havethis vigilance about money
because that was passed on fromother two generations.
But sometimes it's doing thatkind of work, getting curious
about what are my money beliefs?
What are the beliefs of myfamily?
What do I want to hold?
And what do I want to let go of?
And so that's the money healingwork of financial therapy.
(16:12):
Once they do some of that workaround money beliefs, then we go
into the behaviors.
Do you want to have a savingsaccount?
Do you want to tackle debt?
What does that look like nowthat we've healed some things
first?
SPEAKER_03 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
So
SPEAKER_04 (16:23):
it's both healing as well as pragmatic action.
It sounds like it's kind of atwo-step approach to working
with people when dealing withfinances.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
Oh, yeah.
And a lot of the folks that comein, maybe they did pragmatic or
practical tips first and itdidn't stick, like a diet that
failed in 30 days becausethey're like, I didn't do any of
the healing I needed to do.
I still have this internal storyabout money, but you're telling
me just make a budget, whichsounds so Nippy here on your
podcast, the SaaS is there for areason because so many people
feel shame about budgets.
(16:56):
But financial therapists don'tactually like budgets.
We think budgets are bad.
We're all about consciousspending plans and knowing where
your money's going and havingthat curiosity without the shame
of, oh, I hit a limit and I wentabove it and now I failed at
life.
Yeah, it sounds pretty dramatic,but you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_04 (17:12):
I think there's a lot of things and a lot of
people potentially in articlesout there that have prescriptive
ways to deal with things,whether that's like you
mentioned already, how to manageyour food or how to, you know,
increase your sex life or how tomanage your money.
And OK, those might be helpfultips.
But if you don't feel the woundsthat have led to the behaviors
(17:34):
that you now need tips for,you're going to unfortunately
repeat the cycle.
At least that's what has beenshown over and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Yeah.
I mean, this, this image mightbe a little bit gross to some of
your listeners, but like to me,it's like a festering one that
we just slapped a bandaid on.
It's still infected.
It's still pussy.
We just put a bandaid over thetop saying there's your
solution.
It's contained now, but wedidn't actually heal in this
case, like eradicate theinfection, you know, the next
steps more possible.
(18:02):
I'm all about images.
That was probably a littlegraphic.
Sorry, listeners, but that's,That's it.
I'm
SPEAKER_04 (18:09):
laughing because I have a supervisor for my sex
therapy training and she givesthe imagery of hemorrhoid that
certain things are just likehemorrhoids.
And unless you actually dealwith it and heal with it, even
if it goes away for a while,it's going to pop back up and it
goes away for a while to popback up.
So we need to really fleshthings out and explore and heal
(18:33):
rather than just push down andignore.
So Yeah, I was just laughingbecause they're all so very
graphic.
Three of them, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
That's
SPEAKER_04 (18:41):
true.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, any pregnant person might actually understand
that.
I'm like, well, I've got mypregnant body.
Did X, Y, Z.
I know what a hemorrhoid is.
That's
SPEAKER_04 (18:54):
true.
Yeah, but I think your emotionsand mental health issues are
like that.
Even if you've maybe even healedsome of your money story, And if
another thing comes up andthere's still some lingering
things going on, you know, itcould redevelop and you might
need even more time workingthrough that problem with a
(19:14):
therapist or a financialtherapist.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah.
And I just posted yesterday, Iknow this will go out later, but
like I just posted about warningsigns with your money of what do
you need to be tracking?
So, you know, we have ahemorrhoid, we have an infection
wound.
We can also just go playful andsay the beach ball where we try
and show that that pops upsomewhere else.
That's what warning signs are.
Like, where's this popping up?
Are you starting to fight abouthow much you spent out with your
(19:39):
partner?
Are you fixating on how muchsomething costs?
Are you losing sleep at night?
Are you compulsively checkingyour bank account?
These are all money behaviorsthat aren't healthy by any
means.
They're on the extreme end.
And so whether it'shypervigilance or avoidance,
those are kind of the two endsof the spectrum.
Folks are trying to navigate,how do I have neutrality with my
money?
Which is where financial therapycomes in for a lot of those
(20:01):
people.
UNKNOWN (20:02):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_04 (20:04):
I think something that, you know, I'll just notice
or self-disclose and noticesomething that's happened for me
is becoming a mom with money islike, and I've noticed my mom do
this.
And again, like, love my mom,don't want to say anything
negative, but she'll spend moneyon all of her kids before she'll
spend money on herself.
And there's this pattern thatI've even noticed for myself.
(20:27):
Oh, let's get Ella five newoutfits or let's do this nice
thing for Elda's birthday.
But then when it came time tocelebrate my birthday or time
for me to buy something formyself, I'm like, oh, do I
really need that?
Should I actually spend thatmoney or should I save it?
Like, well, you know, who's tosay what's more quote unquote
valuable?
(20:47):
Both are probably equallyvaluable to some extent.
And so trying to even workthrough how you spend your money
in relation to your child, Ithink would probably be a huge
thing for people to work on infinancial therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Absolutely.
I mean, I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners relate to that.
I'm like, you know, that thestate as we die for our kid,
we'd also like buy them anythingthey want.
Part of that is the heartstringsand attachment.
Part of that is consumerismsaying, hey, as a parent, you
don't know what you don't know.
So buy this new trinket, buythis newest car seat, buy this
new thing that's like Montessoriand awesome.
And then there's the runningjoke that they just want some
Tupperware and some pots andpans that are totally fine.
(21:22):
So there is a predatorycomponent here.
I remember coming across it as anew mom where it was like, Here
are all the thousands of dollarswe spend on cribs and high
chairs and strollers and thingswhen maybe the basic one was
just fine and still safe, right?
Because safety is stillimportant to me and probably to
you as a mother.
But I don't need all the bellsand whistles.
I don't want to go into debt$3,000 for this exclusive
(21:45):
stroller kind of example.
So I remember coming across anarticle that was like, hey,
we're actually preying onfirst-time parents who don't
know what they don't know.
We're saying this is the mostsafe thing.
This is the most vetted thing.
Buy this thing.
There's actually a sales andmarketing consumerism piece
here.
That's something else I justwanted to call out.
SPEAKER_04 (22:05):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I feel like I've had a lot ofconversations with other new
moms about this very specificthing where it's OK, this I
don't want to call out brands,but this very nice bassinet will
rock your baby to sleep and youneed this in order to survive.
Because otherwise you're goingto be sleep deprived and just
angry all the time.
And that's what's being said.
(22:27):
And so especially as a new mombeing sleep deprived, you almost
start believing that I need thisthing.
They're telling me that this isgoing to help my baby sleep,
which would then in turn help mesleep.
So I need, quote unquote, to buythis thing.
Yeah, it's definitely predatoryfor sure.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
And part of that is genius on their part because
they're looking at a pain point,which is a lot of new parents
are sleep deprived.
That's kind of a given.
And they're saying, how do Ispeak to that person?
How do I get to the pain pointand solve their problem?
So that marketing strategy oflike, hey, your baby needs to
sleep so you can sleep is likewin-win of why someone hears my
credit card.
Please give me that assonant ona kind of darker note.
(23:05):
This also is why scam artistsare so effective because they
look at your pain point.
They get you in your mostvulnerable, in this case, sleep
deprived, and they get you tosay yes to something you
actually didn't want.
So I'm not saying the bassinetcompany is the scam artist, but
it's the same mentality of let'sget you at your most vulnerable.
Maybe you're distracted, sleepdeprived, hungry, and we get you
to say yes.
And then you walk away going,how did that happen?
(23:26):
Well, I wasn't fully present.
I was sleep deprived.
I wasn't well.
Yeah.
And that's how scam artistsactually get you, which is a
different colleague's work thatI'm fascinated by.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (23:36):
It sounds like mindfulness is really important
when it comes to money.
and the way that you respond tothe triggers that are being
activated when you either hear asales pitch or you're on the
internet late at night scrollingof just, okay, how can I be
interacting with this moremindfully rather than, oh, I see
(23:56):
this Instagram story that tellsme I'm going to be able to
sleep.
I need to follow down the rabbithole to see what the product is
that they're selling me.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there's just so muchhere to unpack for parents and
For a lot of people, it's juststarting with curiosity.
Mindfulness is what we aspireto, but first step, just be
curious.
Notice the reactions in yourbody.
Maybe do a quick body scan.
Here's my mental healththerapist's hat going up.
Where is that limit in your bodyto be like, okay, I'm vulnerable
right now.
I need something to shift.
(24:24):
And so curiosity is the firststep to combat that shame that
naturally shows up of what justhappened.
Why did I spend$3,000 that Ididn't have?
Curiosity can be a first stepfor a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04 (24:35):
Yeah.
I'd imagine...
Curiosity is a great first step,but I'm also hearing some need
for acceptance so we don't getstuck in that shame spiral.
Because I imagine, just again,speaking for myself, if I would
have woken up the next day andrealized that I spent$3,000, I'd
probably be sending myself intoa tailspin.
(24:56):
So just being gentle withyourself during that process, I
think, is really valuable for alot of people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
A lot of financial therapists talk about compassion
and zero judgment.
And that's what I think you justdescribed there.
It's not even acceptance.
It's just like some compassionof what was going on for me to
say that this was a purchasethat I needed in that moment.
What if my needs were neglectedfor me to go that direction,
right?
So a different, I'm in a part ofa mom group and I really
appreciate them because lasttime we met last month, they're
(25:26):
like, how do you know if yourneeds are being met?
This is a big question.
We're gonna ask this to fivemoms with our toddlers all
running around.
And it was like, huh, some of itis untapped needs lead to
behaviors.
In my case, sometimes untappedneeds lead to resentment.
And so that's where theemotional part of money comes in
of like, was I craving comfort?
So was I craving conveniencebecause I'm sleep deprived?
(25:47):
So I got everything delivered tomy door.
Was it, I thought that thisthing was going to help my baby,
which would help me.
There's so much emotional stuffwoven in here.
And that's why we also needcompassion.
You're human.
You're allowed to be like, theygot me.
That was great marketing.
I want that thing.
UNKNOWN (26:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
And you can own that and be compassionate with zero
judgment as you figure out howyou want to navigate that in the
future.
It's already happened.
How do we move forward?
SPEAKER_04 (26:11):
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that we're reallyhaving this conversation because
I feel like, especially in earlypostpartum for myself, I felt
like, gosh, I just needwhatever's going to quote
unquote help me solve theseproblems.
But I personally also had thismindset of, I'm not going to let
these companies get me.
Yeah.
Like I already knew a little bitabout marketing and how it
(26:32):
worked, just being in businessfor myself too.
So I was like, okay, I hear whatthey're saying.
And can I actually guaranteethat this is going to solve my
problem?
Absolutely not.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah.
And some of that's coming fromyour money beliefs, right?
Or your parents or grandparents,again, whoever instilled it in
you.
Because as you said that, I wastrying to think about how did I
show up as a first time mom?
Well, I knew my kid was going todestroy all clothes.
I didn't ask for new clothes.
I went to the secondhand kid'sstore because then I wasn't so
resentful at her when shestained something.
More true now than ever inpre-preschool as a two and a
(27:04):
half year old.
I'm not upset because I didn'tpay full price for said thing
that you have all over as of oneday at school.
But I think, you know, it justshows how subtle this can be
because I'm sitting herethinking about what did I do?
And it's my parents' beliefsthat were still there.
They were sneaky.
They were there being like, Tryand buy the high quality thing
once and never have to replaceit.
(27:25):
So I was like, I'm going to buythe car seat that moves into
four different positions.
So she has it until she's 10years old.
And I was like, that's totallymy dad.
I'm like, we're on this.
Well, it's Thread.
But that was what he instilledin me.
You buy the high quality thing.
You buy the brand you know andtrust.
You don't start with somethingbright, shiny, new.
You go with the brands you'veheard of for years and years.
(27:45):
And you invest in it and younever replace it because it's
going to stay with them.
And not all parents know thatstrategy.
But for some of your listeners,hell yeah, that was how I was
taught.
Not other people.
I want the new thing that mightmake my life even easier than
this thing that's been aroundfor 20 years.
But there's no right quoteunquote way to go.
But that curiosity of where didthat come from?
And right here in this podcast,I'm like, that's dad.
(28:06):
That's my dad.
Maximizer to a T.
Let's go buy the bulk thing atCostco versus I only need one.
But it's a cheaper price.
Buy it while it's on sale.
And that's so pervasive in myfamily.
So.
calling out all the peopletoday.
I
SPEAKER_04 (28:23):
can really, yeah, I guess that was my story too.
I have a high chair thattechnically is supposed to go
with her until she's in abooster seat.
Obviously doesn't need that as anewborn when she first used it
at six months, but you know,supposedly it's going to last me
forever.
And I'm like, oh, that's a goodinvestment, Stephanie.
Good job.
I even sat myself on the backfor the decision.
(28:46):
Because, yeah, there's thislike, oh, I beat the system sort
of mindset.
And that definitely comes frommy parents and this idea of
being thrifty and out scamming,being the scam artist as the
purchaser.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Beating that system for sure.
Yeah.
And that makes us feelempowered.
So that's why I think all of ushave to just get curious of
where are these money beliefs?
What are they?
Where'd they come from?
Because they're just woven in.
And until we question them, wejust go with the flow.
oh, I didn't even second guessthat I made that purchase
because it felt so natural untilwe talk about it in a place like
(29:20):
this.
And it's like, huh, whose wasthat?
Is that mine to own or is thatparents or society or my first
boss or whatever system youbelong to?
They all have beliefs aboutmoney.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (29:33):
So many good things I feel like we could talk about
because I just had another idea,but that's going to take us down
a whole rabbit hole.
What?
SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
Chris
SPEAKER_04 (29:41):
Hager?
You can't do that to me.
Well, okay.
So that thought that I had whenyou were mentioning other people
in society were like people whoeither have been to church or
have been religious or have beenin a community where giving is
really helpful to maintainsociety and cohesiveness and
(30:03):
things like that.
Yeah.
And so for myself, I think,gosh, I was so grateful for all
the free clothes that I got as afirst time mom.
And I've repeated that cycle of,okay, I want to give everything
that I have to somebody who'salso been in that situation.
And I gave so much.
(30:24):
to one of my coworkers whohappened to be pregnant six
months after me.
I'm like, perfect.
You're also having a girl.
Perfect.
Let's just give you everything.
But I think to myself, that isdefinitely also another money
bleep.
Even though it wasn't actuallyexchange of dollars, it was this
mindset of, okay, I've beengifted something, so I need to
gift.
(30:45):
Even though I didn't really needto do that.
But again, it goes back to thismoney bleep.
mindset, even though there wasan exchange of, again, actual
dollars from hand to hand.
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
remember.
Well, yeah, on one hand, we'retalking about tithing, which
I've actually had financialtherapy clients who were still
tithing their church whilefinancially putting themselves
in distress, which is a truedefinition of noble poverty,
which is something I talk totherapists about all day, every
day.
So for listeners, noble poverty,quick definition, you put
yourself in financial distressto help others, right?
So whether that's your church ormaybe you're in a nonprofit or
(31:17):
you're a therapist or all thesepeople tend to go, oh, I didn't
know that was a thing.
And I feel called out.
On the other hand, to kind ofplay double-dog kit, other side
of the coin, I also was feelinglike I got a lot of things from
my family members who hadchildren before me.
So they passed on clothes.
And from that generosity, Ialso, like you, felt like I
(31:38):
wanted to be generous.
So because I didn't invest orpay for those things, I felt
even more comfortable givingthem away for free to the next
person down the line.
And so some of that is moneybelief.
Some of that is financialstability and saying, I don't
need to make money to sell thesethings back to someone.
And for me, it's actually partsuperstition.
I want the good karma that comesfrom helping other parents.
I'm like, please take thisthing.
(31:59):
I've kept it clean.
It's nice.
I definitely don't give it withcrumbs and nastiness still
attached to it.
But there's something that feelsreally good to me as a human to
pass on those things.
One, because I don't likeclutter.
I already outed that I havefamily members who are hoarders.
But two, it felt like I wasgiving myself good karma to say,
someone did this kindness forme, I'm going to do it for them.
(32:19):
So yes, I hear you.
It could be the religiousaspect, but also I think it
could be a values-based thing.
Hey, if I feel financiallystable, does that allow
generosity?
Which we do see with people ofall backgrounds.
If I have enough money, quoteunquote, I'm more likely to be
generous, like donations,sharing, gifting, that kind of
thing.
That's an interesting shift forpeople in financial therapy or
(32:41):
money work.
It took place with I amfinancially stable.
Now all possibilities areendless.
I can be generous for the firsttime without having to question
what will this cost me to dothat?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was just thinking it's soprevalent, at least in the mom
group that I'm in of like, oh,you need this thing.
I have extra or oh, you have.
This other thing, if you learnthis thing from your kid,
because he's three months olderthan my kid, let me share you
what I learned.
And you don't have to buy thatquote unquote product.
It's been sold on Instagram.
(33:13):
And so I think, yeah, I don'tknow if that's a way to continue
this work for yourself of justlike exploring what does it mean
to give and share and bereciprocal and to feel connected
to your community.
Because that's another reasonwhy I created this podcast is to
create community and createconnection between other people.
But that's one way that I feltgrounded in my experience of
(33:35):
becoming a new parent is knowingthat other new parents are kind
of going through the same thingthat I am.
And most of the people that I'verun into, at least in my circle,
have also been really generous,both with things and
information.
SPEAKER_00 (33:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean.
This is the whole journey thatmost of us go on if we choose to
become parents or can becomeparents.
It's also just thinking, don'tget caught up in what things
cost right in this moment asyou're listening to this
podcast.
Check the numbers when you'reready as part of your planning
process.
Like, hey, I have nine, almost10 months, potentially,
hopefully.
The plan isn't saying, do I needto change what the budget looks
(34:09):
like if I have a budget?
Or in our case, a consciousspending plan of what do diapers
cost?
How many of them am I going toneed?
I remember trying to figure outhow many I had to carry in the
diaper bag if I was gone all daywith my baby.
What's the math?
I don't know.
Do I need seven?
Do I need 10?
How much does this kid get to,you know, let go of all the
things?
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, they get stuck at here's
(34:30):
what my budget or my grocerybill was before kids.
But now we need to reevaluatewhat it is now.
So that's, I think, a tidbit forthe listeners is don't go off
old numbers.
Re-evaluate at the three-monthmark.
Your baby is now three monthsold.
What are the costs coming in?
Is it diapers?
Is it a formula?
Is it other stuff?
Don't work with old numbersbecause you're setting yourself
up to fail.
And then now we have shame oflike, oh, I can't even keep to
(34:53):
my budget.
The budget's not up to date.
It's not realistic for a familyof three, four, five, whatever
that may be.
SPEAKER_04 (34:58):
Yeah.
And also looking at the budgetas prices change too, because I
think there's also some angerand resentment that probably
comes from the cost ofsomething.
Like, gosh, I thought this boxof diapers was$45 last month and
now it's$50 and now I'm pissedoff at the diaper company.
You can be upset about that, butunfortunately when it comes to
(35:20):
diapers, you either buy diapersor you get those...
cloth diapers and then have todo all the extra work that is
required there.
So whichever way you go,obviously there's still work and
investment involved.
So yeah, I'm trying to justnotice what you have control
over and what you don't and tryto figure out where you can
(35:42):
influence your circle ratherthan feeling completely out of
control.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Exactly.
Yeah.
never stagnant.
So we have to keep checking itout.
Maybe it's a quick money meetingwith yourself, three months, six
months, when the baby's a yearold.
The things you buy are going tobe different at all those
stages.
Now they're going to eat food atsix months and beyond.
That's going to change thebudget for lots of things.
Yeah, I think curiositycontinues to be the foundation
of everything we're talkingabout.
(36:07):
Just get curious, ask somequestions, look at some numbers,
which for those folks that arelistening who are avoidant,
that's a big deal to even justlook at your numbers and get to
know them.
Versus the hypervigilance, don'ttake that to the extreme.
Look at them once a day and callit good.
Don't compulsively check all dayas one example.
But yeah, even as I think abouthaving a two and a half year old
at the time of this recording,her needs at three are going to
(36:29):
probably look a little bitdifferent.
Maybe not dramatically sobecause she's not changing as
much as three months to sixmonths to nine months.
But it's an evolving thing.
And so none of us are going toalways have it figured out.
We have to continue to make aconscious effort to check it
out.
SPEAKER_04 (36:43):
Yeah.
Well, I want to thank you for,you know, coming on and talking
with everyone.
And yeah, what sort of thingsare you working on and where can
people find you?
And yeah, I'd love people tocontinue knowing what work
you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
Yeah.
So the book you mentioned at thebeginning of our episode today,
it's going to be called YourEnneagram and Money.
So it's going to look atEnneagram edges.
So there's the good edges ofwhen you're really succeeding
and healthy and balanced.
Then there's the shadow edges.
Oh, this is your warning signs.
You got to work on something.
which I think is why you and Ilove the Enneagram.
So here's all the shadow stuffyou want to improve and address,
(37:18):
which therapists love.
So that book is going to comeout hopefully January 2025.
The folks can hopefully followme on Instagram or wherever you
want to follow to see when thatbook launches.
It really was meant for underearners, which could be parents,
which could be mothers, whichcould be therapists.
Our audience is pretty broadthat way of who is not making up
enough money for the lifestylethat they want.
(37:38):
So that book's coming out.
All of my entrepreneur projectsare on my website, which I'm
sure Stephanie can link below ifyou want to.
But yeah, as a serialentrepreneur, I'm always
building something.
Specifically, I work withtherapists right now.
But as a mother, that isdefinitely now integrated into
my identity.
And so because a lot oftherapists identify as women and
potentially mothers, there's alot of intersection there.
(37:59):
And I'm really happy to do thiswork.
SPEAKER_04 (38:01):
Awesome.
Yes.
All of the information will belinked in the show notes on the
website.
And on the podcast so everyonecan find everything that you're
doing.
So thank you so much for comingon today.
SPEAKER_00 (38:12):
Thank
SPEAKER_04 (38:13):
you.
Thank you all for listening.
I hope you found someinspiration, validation, had
some questions answered, or justenjoyed listening to this week's
episode.
I encourage you to check out ourwebsite, well-minded
counseling.com backslashredefining us pod for any
(38:33):
resources that were mentioned intoday's episode.
Check out my new program on ourwebsite as well for first-time
moms, where you can join otherwomen entering into motherhood.
The program offers three phases,phase one, exploring where you
are on your journey towardsmotherhood and connecting with
this new identity.
Phase two, preparing your mind,body, and spirit for giving
(38:55):
birth.
And phase three, reconnecting toyourself while caring for your
baby.
I truly appreciate if you leavea review and rating so other
women can find us as well.
Thank you all for listeningagain and keep on connecting
with yourself and with others inthe community and redefining us.
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