March 27, 2025 • 26 mins
Imagine how powerful we'd all be if we stopped wasting energy on body shame and turned it toward something that truly matters. Eada Gendelman, a therapist who helps those with disordered eating is here to talk about healing our relationship with food, body, and exercise. Drawing from her own experience with an eating disorder, Eada shares how shame, societal praise for disordered behaviors, and a lack of language prevent many from seeking help. She and Stephanie discuss how cultural shifts have changed (but not solved) body image struggles and why self-compassion is the key to true healing. If you’ve ever felt stuck in a cycle of self-criticism, this conversation will inspire you to break free, reclaim your energy, and see that healing is always possible.
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Website: http://morningbirdtherapy.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie ContraO'Hara, licensed professional
(00:22):
counselor.
I'm here with Ida Gendelman, whois also a licensed professional
counselor and recently launcheda Denver-based private practice
called Morning Bird Therapy.
She is passionate about helpingadults and teens healing their
relationship with mind, body,food, and exercise.
She has worked in the mentalhealth field since 2019, and
she's extremely dedicated to thework.
(00:44):
So I'm so excited to have you ontoday, Ida.
How are you?
I'm good.
Thanks so much for having me on.
Excited to be here.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, why don't you tellus a little bit about why this
work is so important to you andwhy you're so passionate?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Sure.
Yeah, I guess just right off thebat, I struggled with an eating
disorder when I was young, andit was obviously really hard,
and it was something that I kepta secret for years.
So when I finally reached out toget help, my life really
changed.
I have a very strong belief andhope that it's possible to get
(01:24):
better and over the years I'vejust learned so much about
healing your relationship withfood and body and I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate your candidness and
sharing with the audience whyyou kind of came into this
journey.
I think a lot of people strugglewith body image or eating
issues, and then it goesunnoticed and pushed under the
rug for a long time.
And so hopefully your braveryand sharing that you've gone
through Journey 2 will inspireother people to be like, oh, we
(01:56):
should actually talk about thisand not just, yeah, act like it
never happened or act like it'snot happening.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah.
And in grad school, I was alwaystaught not to share my personal
story with my clients oranything about my mental health
journey.
And of course, I like steer awayfrom nitty gritty details.
But I find that my clientsreally appreciate knowing that
I've been there and I know howhard it is.
And it goes a long way when theyfeel connected in that way.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah, I feel like authenticity and being connected
to your client is almost moreimportant than that blank slate
mindset that they teach youabout in grad school, which I
think can benefit some clients,but not all.
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Yeah, it definitely depends.
But yeah, I found that sharingthat piece of my story is
helpful.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Yeah.
You know, I'm curious in yourwork, what do you find to be the
biggest barriers for women ormen to come in and be honest
about their experience?
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah.
I mean, it kind of depends onthe person and honestly how old
they are and what they've beenthrough.
A lot of people don't reallyhave the language to even say
what they're feeling or whatthey're doing to their body.
And they don't.
really know what's going onbecause they've never had a
chance to talk about it or learnabout it.
(03:26):
So I think that's a big barrier.
I'd say another big barrier isthat there's a lot of shame.
A lot of people are embarrassedthat they struggle with it.
I think especially men, becausethere's like this very pervasive
idea that eating disorders arethe women's illness.
(03:47):
And I think shame is a barrierto getting all kinds of mental
health help.
But I see that a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think even the first point youmentioned, lack of education or
a lack of the words to use,because I think a lot of times
why people stay in secret isthey don't even know they're in
secret because it's sonormalized for them.
And this is just what they'vedone always or what their family
(04:14):
culture is forever.
And so I Yeah, giving them thatlanguage and insight that like,
oh, your relationship with fooddoesn't have to look like this,
I think could be really jarringto potentially some people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
Definitely.
I know that was part of myexperience.
Like, I didn't even know what Iwas doing or what was disordered
or not.
And unfortunately, in a lot ofpeople's families or community
circles, eating disorderbehaviors are encouraged and
praised.
And so it gets really tricky toeven figure out what is an
(04:53):
unhealthy behavior and what'snot.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah, I would love for you to maybe elaborate for
people.
What sort of behaviors do youfind get praised or maybe get
perpetuated because of thatpraise?
I
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
mean, the first one that comes to mind is the praise
that people receive when theylose weight.
whether or not they lost it in ahealthy way.
I mean, there are so manyreasons that people lose weight,
but when they're praised forgetting smaller, it sends this
message that that's better andthat you are more important or
(05:31):
more beautiful or more valued insociety.
And it's so harmful because itperpetuates whatever the
behavior was that led to theweight loss.
But yeah, in general, I workwith a lot of people that are
praised for exercisingexcessively or being really
disciplined with what they'reeating and having really good
(05:52):
portion control and never eatingcarbs and all these things that
a lot of people view as healthywhen in reality, it's usually
not.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Yeah.
It's reminding me of somethingthat I feel like has been coming
up in Some conversations thatI've been having with other
people around how weight or aweight goal is like a very,
what's a good word?
Like people use it as an analogyoftentimes of how to set even
(06:23):
like something that's maybe moretherapeutic, like a smart goal.
And they'll use weight as theexample sometimes.
I see that so often.
Why are we using weight as a wayto teach someone about what a
SMART goal is?
Can we choose something else?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
I'll read a self-help book that's supposed
to be about forming good habitsor whatever.
And then the goal is alwaysabout losing weight or going on
a diet or something.
I don't know.
I don't know why that's like theexample or the analogy all the
time.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, I think...
It's so potentially quoteunquote relatable, but for the
wrong reasons, right?
So many people talk about weightand talk about body size and
talk about whatever without muchconscious thought about like,
(07:15):
oh, this could be not helpfulfor somebody else to hear.
And so it's a go-to orsomething.
I was watching this, you know,real TikTok, whatever they are
on the internet, and I soundold.
I mean that, but whatever.
I'm an elder millennial.
I'm going to own it.
That was like showing clips ofinterviewers talking to women
(07:38):
about their weight in the 90sand just how flippant, flippant,
flippant, flippant people are orpeople were when asking women
about their weight and callingpeople chubby to their face in
an interview as if that was justnormal talk.
(07:59):
And so I really think there'sthese decades and like
generational ideas about weightthat are still so stuck in the
way that people see settinggoals.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Totally.
Yeah, it's super jarring towatch movies from the 90s or the
early 2000s and hear how theytalk about weight and bodies.
You're right, like soflippantly.
That is no longer how we do it.
And I know I've talked to youabout this before, but it seems
like now we've kind of swung tothis other side where, and I've
(08:37):
just noticed this in my practiceand in my personal life, where
women now don't really know howto talk about their bodies with
each other.
Because before it was kind ofbonding over like, oh, I hate
how I look in this outfit.
And the other woman friend wouldbe like, oh my God, me too.
My legs or whatever are bondingover how hard a diet is or
something.
(08:57):
And now we're in this placewhere diet culture is out.
It's not cool to talk aboutthese things.
It's not in vogue anymore.
So people don't say anything atall, even if they're really
struggling with body image.
So I think we're still figuringout how to connect and be open
about those things withouttriggering each other or saying
(09:19):
things that are hurtful oroverly flippant.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yeah, I would be really curious if anyone's done
research on this topic of how doyou have the conversation?
Because as someone who's been inthe eating disorder world and
body image and body positivity,I also struggle with my own
eating disorder as a teenagerslash 20s.
I find that I'm potentially leanto like fuck the patriarchy like
(09:49):
don't give a shit about whatother people think that you look
and don't value what someoneelse's opinion is more than your
own and I can get on a soapboxwhich might be a little too
intense for some people but Ihave a hard time not getting
there because I think thatthere's just this inner rage
about the fact that it's stillsomething that women struggle
(10:11):
with or men struggle with andI'm like why is this still a We
are in 2025.
(10:38):
in casual conversation that'snot my client.
I tend to be a soapbox personand I'm like, all right,
Stephanie, reel it back.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
Yes, I feel that rage too because it is
ridiculous that there's still,like, we know so much more now
about the patriarchy and who isbenefiting and profiting off of
our insecurities and yet it'sstill top of mind for many
women.
So I feel that anger too and Ithink It's like fuel that helps
(11:09):
us take action.
But I think even people thatfeel that rage at the exact same
time might be struggling withbody insecurity.
And it's really hard to makesense of both of those opposing
feelings at the same time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
No, I don't disagree that someone could be
experiencing both.
That is the complexity that itis to be a human being, right?
To be angry at something.
and understand why you maybe arein these patterns, but also
having such a hard time gettingout of the pattern.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, it's hard to let go.
A lot of people, women inparticular, use controlling
their food and exercise as a wayto feel like they have a sense
of control, especially.
I guess I don't have to gopolitical, but I mean, I feel
like there's a relationshipbetween when women perceive that
(12:07):
they're losing their rights andwhen they tighten up with food
and exercise and get more rigid.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, if you feel out ofcontrol in one area, you're
going to want to try to regaincontrol in another, whether it's
through food or what have you.
I think that's just a part ofthe human experience is this
push-pull with, I want controland I don't have any control and
whatever.
you know, back and forth andback and forth.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Yeah.
And it can be conscious orsubconscious.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Yeah.
I'm curious, what kind of toolsdo you help people with who
maybe come in in that placewhere they're like, I, yeah, or
maybe they're talking abouttheir rights feeling like
they're taken away or they'renot as autonomous as they would
like to over their body or, youknow, they're losing control in
some other area of their lifeand they're using food as a way
(13:01):
to regain that control.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Yeah, I mean, I always start with mindfulness
and awareness because you can'tchange what you don't know.
So really drawing attention towhen do you notice that you feel
more of that urge to controlyour food or exercise?
What emotions come up?
What patterns do you see?
And once you have thatawareness, I like to give people
(13:28):
concrete tools.
So I like to use DBT and ACT formanaging.
maybe impulsive food orbody-related behaviors.
I use a ton of self-compassionand compassion, like a lot, very
powerful tool.
And then I just really like todig in and really figure out
(13:49):
where is this coming from?
What are you ultimately tryingto get out of these behaviors?
And I think a lot of people thatstruggle with food and body are
kind of perfectionistic, blackand white people.
I'm a recovering black and whitethinker, so I'm super passionate
(14:11):
about challenging that anddigging into nuance and gray
areas and all those littlein-between spaces.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah, two things that you said that I want to
highlight is the self-compassionpiece as well as the black and
white thinking.
I think people...
love labels and love to be clearabout what they think or what
they believe and living in thegray can be really uncomfortable
for a lot of people.
And also having self-compassion.
(14:39):
I don't know.
I think a lot of people strugglewith that, whether you're
someone with an eating disorderor not.
Like it's a, yeah, I don't know.
It's like a mountain to climb.
I feel like with a lot of peopleto get to a place where they
truly have self-compassion.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really not easy, especiallywhen we're used to years and
years of talking to ourselves ina really harsh and cruel way.
It can feel so foreign andforced to try and suddenly be
self-compassionate.
But I mean, that's part of why Ilove my role as a therapist.
(15:15):
First, I'll extend compassion toyou.
And it's real.
I have a very real empathy forthis kind of pain.
And I think just seeing someoneelse sit in that with you and
model compassion for you can bereally powerful for then taking
it home and trying to show it toyourself.
(15:35):
Yeah.
I'm curious how you help clientsdevelop their self-compassion
skills.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
That's a good question.
Yeah.
I think I really try tochallenge people to think about
what's the harm in givingyourself self-compassion.
Is it really going to take awayanything from you because of my
own personal experience with it?
Like, one of my challenges wasif I'm nice to myself.
That means that I am going tolet myself go or I'm not going
(16:05):
to strive to achieve anymore orI'm not going to be successful.
No one's going to care about meif I don't push, if I don't work
hard, blah, blah, blah.
I had all these locking beliefsfrom allowing myself to be
self-compassionate.
So kind of extending that like,yeah, there's going to be a lot
of things that are going to getin the way of you wanting to be
(16:26):
self-compassionate.
You can be self-compassionateand successful.
You can be self-compassionateand still achieve things.
Like you can do both.
Going back to that black andwhite thinking, right?
It doesn't have to be, oh, I'mkind to myself, which that means
that I'm going to just lay onthe couch all day.
(16:46):
That's not self-compassion,right?
Being self-compassionate looksgood.
different for every person.
Maybe one day laying on thecouch is an act of
self-compassion, but that's nothow it's going to look every
day.
And so really helping them seeself-compassion through that
lens, I think is one of thefirst things that I really work
(17:08):
on with clients because there'sa lot of barriers around, well,
if I'm nice to myself, I don'tknow, I'm going to fall apart.
Nothing's ever going to getdone.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
That's so common.
A lot of people think theirperfectionism or their
self-shaming is the reasonthey're successful.
And it's just not true.
It's possible to be ambitious,motivated, driven, and have a
lot of self-compassion.
(17:35):
But a lot of people, that's anunfamiliar concept to many.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Yeah, for sure.
It feels very foreign.
I like to try to bring it backto this analogy of, all right,
let's say you're just going tostudy for a test.
And you get a D on the test.
You're not going to suddenlyfeel great about yourself if you
see that you've gotten this D onyour test.
And it might even discourage youto try the next time because you
(18:02):
think to yourself like, oh, I'malready a failure.
I'm already not good enough.
So why bother trying?
But if you tell yourself thatyou've done a good job and
whatnot, if you've gotten a C orsomething, I don't know, and
you've done yourself, it can saylike, oh, I did a good enough
job to get a passing grade.
That's going to help you thenext time to get another C or a
(18:23):
B or other passing grades.
I think it's when we shameourselves, we are labeling
ourselves as a failure, ratherthan if we're telling ourselves
that we've done okay or we'vedone enough, that motivates us
to continue moving forward.
So yeah, like removing thatlanguage that Self-compassion is
going to like lead to, I don'tknow, lower levels of success.
(18:46):
Self-compassion actually leadsto higher levels of
self-acceptance and probablyactually helps
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
you be more successful.
Yeah, there's research onself-compassion being a really
good indicator of how successfulyou are, how much peace you feel
in your life.
And yeah, I like that analogy alot.
And it would be okay to bebummed about getting a D.
Like that sucks.
And you don't need to callyourself stupid and just be
(19:16):
really mean to yourself and beatyourself up.
That's not going to help you getan A the next time.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah.
I talk a lot with my clientsabout the difference between
striving for perfection andstriving for excellence and how
it's possible to strive forexcellence and be
self-compassionate along theway.
Whereas if you're striving forperfection, you're always going
to fall short.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Yeah, I like that.
Differentiating what is theactual goal.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess my next questionis, why do you think this is a
particularly important for womento hear your message now?
What are you hoping that peoplehear?
I
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
think it's especially important now because
I see women right now at thisjuncture of we can talk.
all work together right now tomake things better in this
country for us and for people ofall genders, or we could
(20:18):
backslide.
And so I feel like providing alot of education about the roots
of diet culture and thepatriarchy and the people that
are benefiting and profitingfrom your body insecurities,
like I said, it can be reallypowerful fuel for making a
difference.
And honestly, like, I'm just, Ireally am sick of seeing women
(20:40):
suffer.
I have seen women of all ages.
I worked with older women thatare in their 60s and they've
spent their whole lives hatingtheir bodies.
And I'm sick of it.
If I can do anything to changethat, I want to.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
I saw this quote that said, just imagine how
powerful women could be if weall just woke up tomorrow and
didn't care about how we look.
How freaking badass would we allbe if that was one last thing to
double check on your list everyday?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
think about the brain space we would get back or
the energy we would have if wewere all eating enough and not
wearing ourselves thin.
And I mean, of course, women areamazing.
We've accomplished so much evenunder these oppressive
circumstances.
But imagine what we could do ifwe didn't care so much.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
So is there any final messagethat you want to leave for the
audience and maybe share wherethey can find you?
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Yeah.
So I guess my final message isthat it is possible to feel
better and to live a betterlife.
life.
If you're struggling with foodin your body, even if you've
struggled for many, many years,I believe wholeheartedly that
it's possible to feel better.
I'm an eternal optimist aboutthat.
(22:06):
So then my clients get annoyedat me about it, but I have so
much hope for everyone that it'spossible if you want to, to feel
better.
And yeah, I don't do socialmedia for work stuff, but I have
a practice here in Denver and mywebsite is
morningbirdtherapy.com.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Awesome.
Yeah, that'll all be in the shownotes so people can find it
easily.
But yeah, I just wanted to echothat message of, you know, if
one person can feel better, socan you.
It's possible for everyone toovercome, whether it's eating
disorder or anxiety or, youknow, we all are resilient and
(22:46):
we're all born with that.
That's not something that youneed to, like, It's a muscle you
need to practice, but it's notsomething you need to gain
that's outside of yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Yeah.
And I feel like it's easy forpeople to hear that and be like,
OK, obviously you guys are goingto say that you're therapists.
But I mean, it's the truth.
And one of my strongest beliefs.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
Yeah.
That's true.
I do think that people are like,oh, you're probably just
therapists.
You're always like, blah, blah,blah.
But like, no, I would say thisto anyone, not just because
Edith's a therapist, but likeeven a client, even a person on
the street, like, you know,you're not doomed until, I don't
know, you're never doomed.
Like it's not over until it'sreally over.
So keep fighting.
(23:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on, Edith.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears if you
(23:51):
follow us or subscribe or leavea comment or review that would
be greatly helpful for otherpeople to find us and also just
for me to get some feedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to Thank you somuch for joining us today.
(24:37):
So you can be in the know withall the things that are
happening in the redefining uscommunity.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie ContraO'Hara, licensed professional
(00:22):
counselor.
I'm here with Ida Gendelman, whois also a licensed professional
counselor and recently launcheda Denver-based private practice
called Morning Bird Therapy.
She is passionate about helpingadults and teens healing their
relationship with mind, body,food, and exercise.
She has worked in the mentalhealth field since 2019, and
she's extremely dedicated to thework.
(00:44):
So I'm so excited to have you ontoday, Ida.
How are you?
I'm good.
Thanks so much for having me on.
Excited to be here.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, why don't you tellus a little bit about why this
work is so important to you andwhy you're so passionate?
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Sure.
Yeah, I guess just right off thebat, I struggled with an eating
disorder when I was young, andit was obviously really hard,
and it was something that I kepta secret for years.
So when I finally reached out toget help, my life really
changed.
I have a very strong belief andhope that it's possible to get
(01:24):
better and over the years I'vejust learned so much about
healing your relationship withfood and body and I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, I really appreciate your candidness and
sharing with the audience whyyou kind of came into this
journey.
I think a lot of people strugglewith body image or eating
issues, and then it goesunnoticed and pushed under the
rug for a long time.
And so hopefully your braveryand sharing that you've gone
through Journey 2 will inspireother people to be like, oh, we
(01:56):
should actually talk about thisand not just, yeah, act like it
never happened or act like it'snot happening.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Yeah.
And in grad school, I was alwaystaught not to share my personal
story with my clients oranything about my mental health
journey.
And of course, I like steer awayfrom nitty gritty details.
But I find that my clientsreally appreciate knowing that
I've been there and I know howhard it is.
And it goes a long way when theyfeel connected in that way.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah, I feel like authenticity and being connected
to your client is almost moreimportant than that blank slate
mindset that they teach youabout in grad school, which I
think can benefit some clients,but not all.
SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
Yeah, it definitely depends.
But yeah, I found that sharingthat piece of my story is
helpful.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
Yeah.
You know, I'm curious in yourwork, what do you find to be the
biggest barriers for women ormen to come in and be honest
about their experience?
SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Yeah.
I mean, it kind of depends onthe person and honestly how old
they are and what they've beenthrough.
A lot of people don't reallyhave the language to even say
what they're feeling or whatthey're doing to their body.
And they don't.
really know what's going onbecause they've never had a
chance to talk about it or learnabout it.
(03:26):
So I think that's a big barrier.
I'd say another big barrier isthat there's a lot of shame.
A lot of people are embarrassedthat they struggle with it.
I think especially men, becausethere's like this very pervasive
idea that eating disorders arethe women's illness.
(03:47):
And I think shame is a barrierto getting all kinds of mental
health help.
But I see that a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think even the first point youmentioned, lack of education or
a lack of the words to use,because I think a lot of times
why people stay in secret isthey don't even know they're in
secret because it's sonormalized for them.
And this is just what they'vedone always or what their family
(04:14):
culture is forever.
And so I Yeah, giving them thatlanguage and insight that like,
oh, your relationship with fooddoesn't have to look like this,
I think could be really jarringto potentially some people.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
Definitely.
I know that was part of myexperience.
Like, I didn't even know what Iwas doing or what was disordered
or not.
And unfortunately, in a lot ofpeople's families or community
circles, eating disorderbehaviors are encouraged and
praised.
And so it gets really tricky toeven figure out what is an
(04:53):
unhealthy behavior and what'snot.
SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yeah, I would love for you to maybe elaborate for
people.
What sort of behaviors do youfind get praised or maybe get
perpetuated because of thatpraise?
I
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
mean, the first one that comes to mind is the praise
that people receive when theylose weight.
whether or not they lost it in ahealthy way.
I mean, there are so manyreasons that people lose weight,
but when they're praised forgetting smaller, it sends this
message that that's better andthat you are more important or
(05:31):
more beautiful or more valued insociety.
And it's so harmful because itperpetuates whatever the
behavior was that led to theweight loss.
But yeah, in general, I workwith a lot of people that are
praised for exercisingexcessively or being really
disciplined with what they'reeating and having really good
(05:52):
portion control and never eatingcarbs and all these things that
a lot of people view as healthywhen in reality, it's usually
not.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
Yeah.
It's reminding me of somethingthat I feel like has been coming
up in Some conversations thatI've been having with other
people around how weight or aweight goal is like a very,
what's a good word?
Like people use it as an analogyoftentimes of how to set even
(06:23):
like something that's maybe moretherapeutic, like a smart goal.
And they'll use weight as theexample sometimes.
I see that so often.
Why are we using weight as a wayto teach someone about what a
SMART goal is?
Can we choose something else?
SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
I'll read a self-help book that's supposed
to be about forming good habitsor whatever.
And then the goal is alwaysabout losing weight or going on
a diet or something.
I don't know.
I don't know why that's like theexample or the analogy all the
time.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Yeah, I think...
It's so potentially quoteunquote relatable, but for the
wrong reasons, right?
So many people talk about weightand talk about body size and
talk about whatever without muchconscious thought about like,
(07:15):
oh, this could be not helpfulfor somebody else to hear.
And so it's a go-to orsomething.
I was watching this, you know,real TikTok, whatever they are
on the internet, and I soundold.
I mean that, but whatever.
I'm an elder millennial.
I'm going to own it.
That was like showing clips ofinterviewers talking to women
(07:38):
about their weight in the 90sand just how flippant, flippant,
flippant, flippant people are orpeople were when asking women
about their weight and callingpeople chubby to their face in
an interview as if that was justnormal talk.
(07:59):
And so I really think there'sthese decades and like
generational ideas about weightthat are still so stuck in the
way that people see settinggoals.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Totally.
Yeah, it's super jarring towatch movies from the 90s or the
early 2000s and hear how theytalk about weight and bodies.
You're right, like soflippantly.
That is no longer how we do it.
And I know I've talked to youabout this before, but it seems
like now we've kind of swung tothis other side where, and I've
(08:37):
just noticed this in my practiceand in my personal life, where
women now don't really know howto talk about their bodies with
each other.
Because before it was kind ofbonding over like, oh, I hate
how I look in this outfit.
And the other woman friend wouldbe like, oh my God, me too.
My legs or whatever are bondingover how hard a diet is or
something.
(08:57):
And now we're in this placewhere diet culture is out.
It's not cool to talk aboutthese things.
It's not in vogue anymore.
So people don't say anything atall, even if they're really
struggling with body image.
So I think we're still figuringout how to connect and be open
about those things withouttriggering each other or saying
(09:19):
things that are hurtful oroverly flippant.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yeah, I would be really curious if anyone's done
research on this topic of how doyou have the conversation?
Because as someone who's been inthe eating disorder world and
body image and body positivity,I also struggle with my own
eating disorder as a teenagerslash 20s.
I find that I'm potentially leanto like fuck the patriarchy like
(09:49):
don't give a shit about whatother people think that you look
and don't value what someoneelse's opinion is more than your
own and I can get on a soapboxwhich might be a little too
intense for some people but Ihave a hard time not getting
there because I think thatthere's just this inner rage
about the fact that it's stillsomething that women struggle
(10:11):
with or men struggle with andI'm like why is this still a We
are in 2025.
(10:38):
in casual conversation that'snot my client.
I tend to be a soapbox personand I'm like, all right,
Stephanie, reel it back.
SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
Yes, I feel that rage too because it is
ridiculous that there's still,like, we know so much more now
about the patriarchy and who isbenefiting and profiting off of
our insecurities and yet it'sstill top of mind for many
women.
So I feel that anger too and Ithink It's like fuel that helps
(11:09):
us take action.
But I think even people thatfeel that rage at the exact same
time might be struggling withbody insecurity.
And it's really hard to makesense of both of those opposing
feelings at the same time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
No, I don't disagree that someone could be
experiencing both.
That is the complexity that itis to be a human being, right?
To be angry at something.
and understand why you maybe arein these patterns, but also
having such a hard time gettingout of the pattern.
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, it's hard to let go.
A lot of people, women inparticular, use controlling
their food and exercise as a wayto feel like they have a sense
of control, especially.
I guess I don't have to gopolitical, but I mean, I feel
like there's a relationshipbetween when women perceive that
(12:07):
they're losing their rights andwhen they tighten up with food
and exercise and get more rigid.
SPEAKER_01 (12:14):
Yeah.
Well, yeah, if you feel out ofcontrol in one area, you're
going to want to try to regaincontrol in another, whether it's
through food or what have you.
I think that's just a part ofthe human experience is this
push-pull with, I want controland I don't have any control and
whatever.
you know, back and forth andback and forth.
SPEAKER_00 (12:36):
Yeah.
And it can be conscious orsubconscious.
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Yeah.
I'm curious, what kind of toolsdo you help people with who
maybe come in in that placewhere they're like, I, yeah, or
maybe they're talking abouttheir rights feeling like
they're taken away or they'renot as autonomous as they would
like to over their body or, youknow, they're losing control in
some other area of their lifeand they're using food as a way
(13:01):
to regain that control.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Yeah, I mean, I always start with mindfulness
and awareness because you can'tchange what you don't know.
So really drawing attention towhen do you notice that you feel
more of that urge to controlyour food or exercise?
What emotions come up?
What patterns do you see?
And once you have thatawareness, I like to give people
(13:28):
concrete tools.
So I like to use DBT and ACT formanaging.
maybe impulsive food orbody-related behaviors.
I use a ton of self-compassionand compassion, like a lot, very
powerful tool.
And then I just really like todig in and really figure out
(13:49):
where is this coming from?
What are you ultimately tryingto get out of these behaviors?
And I think a lot of people thatstruggle with food and body are
kind of perfectionistic, blackand white people.
I'm a recovering black and whitethinker, so I'm super passionate
(14:11):
about challenging that anddigging into nuance and gray
areas and all those littlein-between spaces.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah, two things that you said that I want to
highlight is the self-compassionpiece as well as the black and
white thinking.
I think people...
love labels and love to be clearabout what they think or what
they believe and living in thegray can be really uncomfortable
for a lot of people.
And also having self-compassion.
(14:39):
I don't know.
I think a lot of people strugglewith that, whether you're
someone with an eating disorderor not.
Like it's a, yeah, I don't know.
It's like a mountain to climb.
I feel like with a lot of peopleto get to a place where they
truly have self-compassion.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really not easy, especiallywhen we're used to years and
years of talking to ourselves ina really harsh and cruel way.
It can feel so foreign andforced to try and suddenly be
self-compassionate.
But I mean, that's part of why Ilove my role as a therapist.
(15:15):
First, I'll extend compassion toyou.
And it's real.
I have a very real empathy forthis kind of pain.
And I think just seeing someoneelse sit in that with you and
model compassion for you can bereally powerful for then taking
it home and trying to show it toyourself.
(15:35):
Yeah.
I'm curious how you help clientsdevelop their self-compassion
skills.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
That's a good question.
Yeah.
I think I really try tochallenge people to think about
what's the harm in givingyourself self-compassion.
Is it really going to take awayanything from you because of my
own personal experience with it?
Like, one of my challenges wasif I'm nice to myself.
That means that I am going tolet myself go or I'm not going
(16:05):
to strive to achieve anymore orI'm not going to be successful.
No one's going to care about meif I don't push, if I don't work
hard, blah, blah, blah.
I had all these locking beliefsfrom allowing myself to be
self-compassionate.
So kind of extending that like,yeah, there's going to be a lot
of things that are going to getin the way of you wanting to be
(16:26):
self-compassionate.
You can be self-compassionateand successful.
You can be self-compassionateand still achieve things.
Like you can do both.
Going back to that black andwhite thinking, right?
It doesn't have to be, oh, I'mkind to myself, which that means
that I'm going to just lay onthe couch all day.
(16:46):
That's not self-compassion,right?
Being self-compassionate looksgood.
different for every person.
Maybe one day laying on thecouch is an act of
self-compassion, but that's nothow it's going to look every
day.
And so really helping them seeself-compassion through that
lens, I think is one of thefirst things that I really work
(17:08):
on with clients because there'sa lot of barriers around, well,
if I'm nice to myself, I don'tknow, I'm going to fall apart.
Nothing's ever going to getdone.
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
That's so common.
A lot of people think theirperfectionism or their
self-shaming is the reasonthey're successful.
And it's just not true.
It's possible to be ambitious,motivated, driven, and have a
lot of self-compassion.
(17:35):
But a lot of people, that's anunfamiliar concept to many.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Yeah, for sure.
It feels very foreign.
I like to try to bring it backto this analogy of, all right,
let's say you're just going tostudy for a test.
And you get a D on the test.
You're not going to suddenlyfeel great about yourself if you
see that you've gotten this D onyour test.
And it might even discourage youto try the next time because you
(18:02):
think to yourself like, oh, I'malready a failure.
I'm already not good enough.
So why bother trying?
But if you tell yourself thatyou've done a good job and
whatnot, if you've gotten a C orsomething, I don't know, and
you've done yourself, it can saylike, oh, I did a good enough
job to get a passing grade.
That's going to help you thenext time to get another C or a
(18:23):
B or other passing grades.
I think it's when we shameourselves, we are labeling
ourselves as a failure, ratherthan if we're telling ourselves
that we've done okay or we'vedone enough, that motivates us
to continue moving forward.
So yeah, like removing thatlanguage that Self-compassion is
going to like lead to, I don'tknow, lower levels of success.
(18:46):
Self-compassion actually leadsto higher levels of
self-acceptance and probablyactually helps
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
you be more successful.
Yeah, there's research onself-compassion being a really
good indicator of how successfulyou are, how much peace you feel
in your life.
And yeah, I like that analogy alot.
And it would be okay to bebummed about getting a D.
Like that sucks.
And you don't need to callyourself stupid and just be
(19:16):
really mean to yourself and beatyourself up.
That's not going to help you getan A the next time.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah.
I talk a lot with my clientsabout the difference between
striving for perfection andstriving for excellence and how
it's possible to strive forexcellence and be
self-compassionate along theway.
Whereas if you're striving forperfection, you're always going
to fall short.
SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Yeah, I like that.
Differentiating what is theactual goal.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess my next questionis, why do you think this is a
particularly important for womento hear your message now?
What are you hoping that peoplehear?
I
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
think it's especially important now because
I see women right now at thisjuncture of we can talk.
all work together right now tomake things better in this
country for us and for people ofall genders, or we could
(20:18):
backslide.
And so I feel like providing alot of education about the roots
of diet culture and thepatriarchy and the people that
are benefiting and profitingfrom your body insecurities,
like I said, it can be reallypowerful fuel for making a
difference.
And honestly, like, I'm just, Ireally am sick of seeing women
(20:40):
suffer.
I have seen women of all ages.
I worked with older women thatare in their 60s and they've
spent their whole lives hatingtheir bodies.
And I'm sick of it.
If I can do anything to changethat, I want to.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
I saw this quote that said, just imagine how
powerful women could be if weall just woke up tomorrow and
didn't care about how we look.
How freaking badass would we allbe if that was one last thing to
double check on your list everyday?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
think about the brain space we would get back or
the energy we would have if wewere all eating enough and not
wearing ourselves thin.
And I mean, of course, women areamazing.
We've accomplished so much evenunder these oppressive
circumstances.
But imagine what we could do ifwe didn't care so much.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
Yeah.
So is there any final messagethat you want to leave for the
audience and maybe share wherethey can find you?
SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Yeah.
So I guess my final message isthat it is possible to feel
better and to live a betterlife.
life.
If you're struggling with foodin your body, even if you've
struggled for many, many years,I believe wholeheartedly that
it's possible to feel better.
I'm an eternal optimist aboutthat.
(22:06):
So then my clients get annoyedat me about it, but I have so
much hope for everyone that it'spossible if you want to, to feel
better.
And yeah, I don't do socialmedia for work stuff, but I have
a practice here in Denver and mywebsite is
morningbirdtherapy.com.
SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
Awesome.
Yeah, that'll all be in the shownotes so people can find it
easily.
But yeah, I just wanted to echothat message of, you know, if
one person can feel better, socan you.
It's possible for everyone toovercome, whether it's eating
disorder or anxiety or, youknow, we all are resilient and
(22:46):
we're all born with that.
That's not something that youneed to, like, It's a muscle you
need to practice, but it's notsomething you need to gain
that's outside of yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Yeah.
And I feel like it's easy forpeople to hear that and be like,
OK, obviously you guys are goingto say that you're therapists.
But I mean, it's the truth.
And one of my strongest beliefs.
So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:10):
Yeah.
That's true.
I do think that people are like,oh, you're probably just
therapists.
You're always like, blah, blah,blah.
But like, no, I would say thisto anyone, not just because
Edith's a therapist, but likeeven a client, even a person on
the street, like, you know,you're not doomed until, I don't
know, you're never doomed.
Like it's not over until it'sreally over.
So keep fighting.
(23:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on, Edith.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears if you
(23:51):
follow us or subscribe or leavea comment or review that would
be greatly helpful for otherpeople to find us and also just
for me to get some feedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to Thank you somuch for joining us today.
(24:37):
So you can be in the know withall the things that are
happening in the redefining uscommunity.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
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