August 21, 2025 • 43 mins
What if talking to kids early and often about sex, consent, and relationships could prevent violence before it starts? Certified sex educator and gender-based violence specialist Scotney Young believes it can, and her work helps to make sexual health education accessible, affirming, and relevant for every age group.
Scotney and host Stephanie Konter-O’Hara talk about why teaching consent goes far beyond “no means no,” how to adapt these lessons across cultures, and the surprising ways parents can start these conversations without fear or awkwardness.
Scotney shares about the personal loss that drives her work, busts myths about comprehensive sex education, and shares her vision for raising a generation who can navigate relationships with confidence and respect. You’ll walk away with practical tips, a deeper understanding of the stakes, and the motivation to rethink how we talk to kids—and each other—about sexuality, safety, and connection.
Connect with Scotney:
https://www.rootsandboundaries.com
IG: @RootsandBoundaries
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Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling
I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZT9P3RB?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&bestFormat=true
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
So excited to have you tune intoday.
I have with me Scottney Young,and she is a certified sex
(00:24):
educator, a gender-basedviolence specialist, and a
social worker.
And she's also the founder andlead consultant of Roots and
Boundaries, a sexual andreproductive health consulting
firm that works withorganizations around the world
to create programs that areinclusive, evidence-based,
culturally relevant, and rootedin justice.
(00:45):
We really talked I'm reallyexcited for you all to listen
(01:10):
today.
Enjoy.
Welcome back to Redefining Us,everyone.
I'm so happy that you're hereagain today.
And today I have with meScottney.
Yeah, just we'll dive right inand we can talk about what
inspired you to do the work thatyou do and what keeps you
(01:31):
passionate about showing up anddoing it every day.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
What inspired me?
I think it's kind of two parts.
There's like the side of doingthis work.
where I didn't see a need forit, right?
Like, I think that the sexualityis such an important part of
being human, right?
(01:55):
It's like a key part of who weare and how we interact with
each other.
It's directly tied to the waythat we form romantic and sexual
relationships, which impacts thepart we choose or how and when
we become parents.
our physical and mental health,our safety, our sense of self,
you know, all of these thingsare tied to sexuality.
(02:18):
And I think for me, I've seen alot in the different things that
I've worked in, young people inparticular, but also, you know,
older selves as well, adults aswell, are really hungering for
information about this topic.
They feel like they don't reallyknow how to ask for more
(02:38):
information or find information.
There's a lot of people who areeven embarrassed to talk to
their doctors about sexualhealth issues.
And so when I see that andinclude the harmful and accurate
and dangerous information thatis readily available, it makes
(02:58):
you want to do this and want todo this work.
And so that's definitely a bigpart of it.
I would say the other part ismore personal.
I think that A lot of folks werereally kept by gender-based
violence, by anti-partnerviolence, and it's impacted my
own journey in a lot of ways.
I think a lot of times we see inthese stories where, you know, a
(03:22):
survivor is using an abusiverelationship to help what they
do.
But I think the reality is thatmany, many survivors end up
living with global abusivepartners for most of their lives
or kind of stuck in a cycle withthese partners.
And that way, Definitelyrethinking my family, and I'm
(03:42):
not kind of leading my own workwell for about almost three
years ago.
So, a beautiful partner takesher life.
From her father, to the Navy, upto school, to employers,
kindergarten, and kindergartenteacher who's going to be a
(04:02):
school principal.
And our family is still reallygrappling with that.
So, I definitely think we needto do this.
Yeah, that's
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
a really powerful story.
I appreciate you sharing that.
I think I don't know what thestats are.
You might know since you kind ofare in this world, but I'd
imagine, unfortunately, a lot ofpeople when they get into
relationships don't know that itmight become one that has like
domestic violence, a part of it.
And then at least from what Iknow, kind of gets stuck almost
(04:40):
and they don't know how toleave.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, we've seen that a lot.
I worked for my last job.
I was a gender-referenceddomestic violence prevention
specialists for the domesticviolence agency in Virginia.
And, you know, that's very muchthe case.
And there's a lot ofmisconceptions around people
like, you know, well, why don'tthey just leave?
(05:03):
Or, you know, I've been in thepersonal side.
Why did they end up at theAlamo?
And it doesn't start out thatway.
And by the time you're in it,you find...
and all this immense strain andthis immense fear that keeps you
in it.
And what we do know fromstatistics is that it typically
(05:26):
takes a survivor about seventimes before they can
successfully leave an abusivepartner because of that pull,
because of that control, becauseof that fear.
And on top of that, leaving isthe most dangerous time for a
lot of survivors.
So yeah, it is something that Ithink You know, in a lot of
(05:47):
ways, the work that I do isdirectly tied to it, because it
teaches people how to havehealthy relationships, but it
teaches people how to managetheir feelings and emotions and
interactions in a way that istruly loving and is based on
mutual self and self and safety,you know, and probably be fit
(06:09):
for life where we have lessempathy like that.
UNKNOWN (06:14):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
I know some of the work that you're doing based on
our last conversation is writinga children's book about consent.
And I'd love for you to shareabout that because I think a lot
of our listeners would be reallyinterested.
I know I'm really interested tosee that come out.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah, same for remembering.
Yeah, so I've written achildren's book about consent.
I've written two versions of itbecause I currently live in
Michigan.
I live in Uganda at the moment.
So I've published a book here inUganda.
I'm a woman working onpublishing a U.S.
version currently withIllustrator right now, and I'm
(06:52):
really excited about it.
But basically, it's just alittle story for ages four to
seven, four to six.
And it's about not just the ideaof, you know, consent being no
means no, but really alsothinking about what does that
look like in a little person'slife?
(07:14):
And what does it mean to say no?
How difficult that can be whenyou don't want to hurt someone's
feelings.
Or what does it mean to hear noand deal with rejection?
Because rejection is a reallytough emotion to understand.
It's hard for adults.
It's hard for kids.
And there's a lot of skills thatwe need to build up to be able
(07:38):
to do that in a way where we canstill respect one another.
And so that's kind of what thestory is about, a little boy who
has to say no to his littlebrother who really wants
something, and then he learnsthis lesson with his dad, and
then later on the next day atschool, someone says no to him,
(07:58):
and he has to manage that withthe feelings and the emotional
guidance that his dad gave himthe day before.
So I'm very excited about that.
The children's book space aroundconsent and body autonomy on all
of these really foundationaltopics related to sexual health
and well-being and healthyrelationships.
(08:20):
It's really, really expanding,and it's super cool to see.
It's kind of a passion area ofmine in collecting children's
books about consent and sex edtopics, and there's just so many
amazing options out there, soit's a really...
great time to be a parent whomight be looking for that type
(08:40):
of resource because there's alot of options.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I imagine it's a topic thatmaybe like I'm thinking about my
childhood and I don't think Iever had a book that taught me
about consent.
I just saw this post that wastalking about sharing what I
thought was really interesting.
And it feels like it has a lotof parallels with consent rather
(09:03):
than Teaching your kid to alwayssay yes to sharing.
You can also teach them it'sokay to say no, that they don't
have to share and what's theirsis theirs.
You know, sometimes it's kind toshare, but sometimes protecting
your own space and your ownpeace by not sharing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
Yeah, exactly.
And that's absolutely a topicthat comes up in my book as
well, is that I try to practicewith my daughter who's four.
It's kind of unfair for adultsto expect kids to share
everything when we don't shareeverything.
You know, we don't share a lotof our possessions day in and
day out.
(09:41):
for a variety of reasons.
And so helping her understandthe value of sharing, right?
The importance of buildingcommunity and how that can be a
good thing.
But if there are things that youdon't want to share, That's
okay, too.
But then what do we have to doabout that?
If we have friends coming overto play and you don't want to
share something, it's probablybetter that we put it away,
(10:03):
right?
And instead of, you know, justholding it where they can see it
and not letting them touch it.
That's not a good way to buildcommunity and build friends and
make friends.
So trying to give kids theskills and the a channel for
them to actually voice that andexpress that part of their
autonomy is equally important.
(10:24):
And that was actually somethingreally interesting when I was, I
had written this story in kindof an American context and then
working with a Ugandan publisherhere trying to adapt it and to
be, you know, more culturallyrelevant and culturally
responsive.
And we were really strugglingwith the editor of like, you
(10:46):
would never say no to sharingsomething here.
It is just not a part of theculture.
It's actually verycounterculture.
There's this concept of Ubuntuand this concept of everything's
communal, everything is shared.
And so it's like, We had tochange the story to think about
what would be a reason why youmight not want to allow someone
(11:08):
to do something.
And it's like, oh, okay, hedoesn't want his little brother
to play with this because hislittle brother, it could hurt
him.
You know, the small pieces, hecould choke on it or something
like that.
And so that made more sense.
And so there's also thiscultural piece that I think is
really important, especially ina multicultural context.
society like the U.S.
and kind of my background andsome of the different places
(11:30):
I've lived and worked and thinkabout, well, what does that look
like here?
Or what does it look like there?
And how can we explore thosetopics?
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Yeah, I imagine it's a really, the word complicated
is coming to me, but likenuanced, right?
Like even teaching consent andsharing and this idea of
protecting the Yourself and yourbodily autonomy is very nuanced
conversation and trying to havea similar conversation with
(11:59):
people from multiplebackgrounds, I imagine, just
grows more and more complicatedthe more people you have in the
conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (12:06):
Yeah, yeah.
And even just, you know, withina family, right?
Like, you know, there's a lot ofdiscussion there.
or kind of awareness buildingaround giving kids bodily
autonomy.
And the example that's alwaysused is like, you don't want a
hard grandma, we don't ask you.
That doesn't fly in a lot offamilies or between generations,
(12:28):
right?
And so thinking about, you know,what does that really mean for
our family and how can webalance our familial and
cultural values with this ideaof the type of bodily autonomy
and cohesiveness that we want toinstill in our children as well
because both of those things weusually you know want to pass on
(12:49):
to our kids right family valuesor cultural norms and maybe
there are things we want to do alittle differently and so that
nuance can be a bit scary forparents I think sometimes of
like how do I do this or I had afriend write me once because she
was like You know, I've alwaystaught my daughter, no means no.
(13:10):
And we're a body, it's your bodyand your choice.
And I was trying to get herdressed for school and she was
just screaming, no, it's mybody, my choice, my body, my
choice.
And she was just like, oh no,how do I respond to that?
And so, yeah, it can be verycomplicated with our own
feelings and also, you know,with the role of a parent.
(13:32):
And I think it's important toremember that Everything that we
teach kids, we've taught on thisscaffolding framework, right?
We add layers to it as they getolder.
And consent and bodily autonomyand all of these other topics
are the same way.
But first, we might say, youknow, you can always say no.
(13:53):
And then we'll add that layer oflife.
And with kids, I do need to keepyou safe.
So I can acknowledge that youdon't want to do this, but I do
need to help you, right?
So we're adding lower levels.
understanding as their capacityto understand expands as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah, I guess for parents who are maybe just
approaching this topic for thefirst time, maybe with someone
who's already a little bitolder, maybe they already have
an eight or nine year old, I'massuming you would approach this
conversation different than youwould with a four year old.
Do you have any tools or ideasfor people who maybe are like,
okay, I'm already past the agefor the book that you've written
(14:35):
that made a nine-year-old belike, mom, I don't want to read
this.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I will say one, there are booksfor the next age bracket up.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
It's
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
a really cool, yeah, like I said, it's really blown
up in the last decade or so.
And, you know, I'm a big fan ofMahari's work that is like a
positive family book.
And they have on their website awhole resource list that you can
look by book, you can look byarticle, you can look by video,
whatever.
You know, amains.org has a lotof great resources for short
(15:11):
videos that are designed formiddle school age, talk a lot
about puberty topics.
You know, that's reallysomething you can watch
together.
You could have your child watchit and then ask them questions
after.
And then the regular India andstuff that you consume There's
always lessons, there's alwaysopportunities to have
conversation around.
(15:32):
You know, if you're watchingsomething and you're like, what
does it look like?
He really wants to do that andhis friends are pressuring him.
Like, what do you think aboutthat, right?
And look for those opportunitiesto have those conversations.
It's really never too late.
And it's also never too late togo back.
I think there's this idea thatfor parents, sometimes we have
this pressure of, I have to saythe right thing.
(15:53):
You know, my child asked thisquestion and I answered it wrong
and I don't know what to do now.
And it's totally okay.
Not only is it okay, but it'ssuch a good example to be like,
you know, you know, yesterdayyou asked me this question about
where do babies come from?
And I really don't know how toanswer it.
And I think I gave you the wronganswer.
(16:14):
Can we talk about it again?
Right?
And showing them what that lookslike to not know the answer to
them.
And that's okay, right?
And how can we find it?
And so, yeah, I do think theconversation can get even more
interesting as your kid getsolder and there's room to
(16:35):
explore things together,especially given the stuff, the
kind of range of content andmedia and information that kids
are exposed to.
You know, they are going to askyou questions that you don't
know the answer to.
And so, yeah, releasing thatfear of you don't have the right
answer and just letting yourselfexplore it with them is, I
(16:56):
think, a good way to foster thatrelationship and that curiosity
and help them see that they cantrust you.
And they will continue to bringthings to you if they feel like
they can trust you and you'renot going to judge them and
you're not going to lie to them.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Yeah, I guess what I'm kind of hearing you say is
really for the parent redefiningwhat the conversation looks
like.
So I think at least again, I'mgoing to use myself as an
example and maybe throw myparents a little bit under the
bus here.
But I think my experience wasthere was all this buildup to
have one conversation.
(17:32):
Right.
One conversation.
And I think back and I'm like,Man, it might have been easier
to have like little microconversations along the way
rather than having what feltlike this really awkward,
uncomfortable conversation inthe fourth grade.
(17:52):
Right.
What about talking about it whenI was five or six or seven and
just building it up?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Wow.
Yeah, exactly.
That idea of scaffolding notonly is better for our child's
development, Yeah, that's timeto become more comfortable with
these topics and to kind ofpractice having these
conversations.
And, you know, at the beginning,it kind of starts with just
teaching anatomically correctnames for body parts, right?
(18:20):
And how important that can befor health or safety, for all of
these things.
But then also, so when you wantto talk about it later, they
already have that vocabulary andyou don't have to, you know,
start some scratch of like, youknow, well, we've all moved over
this, but technically it's this.
And then you're like, wait,what?
Like, so yeah, it's such a, Imean, yeah, I hesitate to say
(18:46):
better because I try to be, youknow, but I do think it's a much
more accessible way to approachthese topics with your kids is
to have these microconversations that come up all
the time.
Find, you know, children's booksthat have these topics.
So, you know, it's one book thatyou read out of however many
(19:07):
books you have right in yourfamily library.
And I'm kind of building on thata little bit, you know, every
day as they get older and asthese things come up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yeah, it helps to normalize the conversation.
So then when maybe your childhas a question, they will be
like, oh, I can ask mom and dadabout this thing.
I don't have to go ask the kidon the playground this question
and get potentially inaccurateinformation.
I can talk to my parents.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yeah, more realistically, Google, right?
A lot of young people, even, youknow, middle grade.
kids are using Google to answerthese questions.
They're now even like Captain T,right?
All the AI stuff.
That could be an important partof the conversation, too, is if
you want to find information,how do we make sure we're
(19:58):
finding real information,credible information?
You can show them how to searchsomething on Google and have
that conversation with them aswell.
And so I just think, yeah, it'sa much more accessible and
approachable way for parents,too, to think that and then you
start out, like I said, withkind of base level of like, you
(20:21):
know, where do babies come from?
Well, there's a sperm and an eggand they join together and it
grows in uterus and then there'sa baby.
And that's pretty good.
Most kids don't have a lot ofdetailed questions after that
because you've given themsomething solid, right?
And then when they do, then youcan add a layer to it rather
(20:42):
than add more information to it.
UNKNOWN (20:45):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
What do you think is the most surprising thing that
maybe people ask you a questionabout over and over that you're
like, hmm, I'm surprised thisisn't widely known knowledge?
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
That's interesting.
That's an interesting question.
I think it's kind of differentfor kids than for adults and
parents that I work with andstuff.
Because I think one questionthat comes up a lot with parents
is, how can I talk about thisstuff?
Won't I just be teaching themhow to go have sex?
And, you know, isn't this justgoing to make them more curious
(21:21):
about things?
And thankfully, there is a tonof research that I can turn to,
that I can point parents to thatshow that that is not the case
at all.
That, you know...
Introducing kids tocomprehensive sex ed topics,
both in a formal educationsetting, but also in a family
(21:45):
setting, are strongcorrelations.
And I think the argument couldbe made for some causation as
well, are strong correlations todelayed sexual activity, to
young people, you know, havingmuch higher levels of confidence
of self-esteem of you know,better relational or emotional
(22:07):
intelligence, all of thesethings.
And so that's not what we see.
And if you just think about it,you're not usually like, you
know, wow, my mom just talkedabout sex.
Now I'm going to go look uppornography.
Like, you know, your braindoesn't really work that way,
especially for young kids.
They're just like, huh, that'sinteresting.
(22:28):
And then they move on, usually,right?
They move on to...
Minecraft or whatever the nextthing we're going to do is.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So that's definitely a questionthat I get a lot.
It really spans.
It is just a wide array.
And I usually save all myanonymous questions from some of
(22:53):
the classrooms that I do becausethey're always so interesting.
But I think for a lot of theolder age group that I have,
There seem to be more questionsaround either one, things that
are seen in pornography andwanting to understand it and
wondering, is it real?
Is this what people expect?
(23:13):
That type of stuff.
And then on the other hand, Iget a lot of questions around
like, how do I tell my boyfriendor my girlfriend that I'm not
ready to kiss them or to havesex or something like that,
right?
That feeling of feeling thissocial pressure to...
Do things to have sexualexperiences that you're not
(23:36):
ready for or wanting, but justnot knowing how to have that
conversation at all.
And so that question comes up alot too.
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
am curious how you would answer that for a young
person.
As a therapist, I've found thatI have some clients that come in
and they're like, oh, like, youknow, my girlfriend said that
she'll break up with me if Idon't do this.
Or my boyfriend doesn't want tobe with me unless I do this.
It's like, then I talk to, Itend to talk to them like, is
(24:06):
that a relationship that youwant to be in?
If they are saying you do thisor this other thing will happen,
that feels like a really bigconsequence for saying no.
Do you want to be in arelationship?
that has that kind ofconsequence for saying no to
something that you don't want todo.
And that's the way that Iapproach it, but I'm not sure if
(24:26):
you would give differentperspective from the
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
education.
Yeah.
Yeah.
From the education piece, Ithink that's kind of a
foundational part of it.
It was like, I kind of frame itin that, right?
Like first and foremost, youknow, if you feel like saying no
to somebody is, is going to makethem break up with you or treat
you poorly or something likethat.
(24:49):
You should be asking yourself,you know, is that about the
person you really want to bewith?
Because that is coercion.
That is abusive or at a minimumunhealthy.
And so kind of, you know,setting the scene with that.
And then the education piececomes in, which I think is
really important becausesometimes grownups can get more
(25:13):
conceptual.
And young people want concrete,like what exactly do I say,
right?
And so I think a lot of peopledo.
I think a lot of people do.
So then we're going to turn tolike, okay, so thinking about
how do you bring it up first,right?
Text message comes up because alot of kids have these
(25:35):
conversations on text message orinstant messaging aspects of
different apps, right?
And so, you know, you can ask,oh, it seemed like you wanted to
be more the last time we weretogether.
Like, I am interested.
I just don't know if I'm readyfor that right now.
And leave it at that.
(25:57):
You don't have to go too muchinto it and see what your
partner says.
And then we can go from there.
Sometimes when you say that,might be pleasantly surprised
that they're like, oh my gosh, Iunderstand.
I don't want you to feeluncomfortable.
I like you, right?
Or they might be like, well, youknow, if that's how it's going
(26:17):
to be, then I might end thisrelationship or whatever and
then see earlier conversations.
But yeah, and so I am big onhelping young people, especially
adolescents, think about whatdoes that communication look
like in their life?
Because I can tell them like,oh, follow the having
conversations in person andblah, blah, blah.
(26:38):
But that's just not the reality.
They're not going to usually.
Younger generations don't have alot of practice having prep
conversations in person becausethey have all the other options.
So, you know, moving them wherethey're at with that and
thinking about what can you say?
Keep it simple.
I'm usually asking the otherstudents for ideas when I have a
(27:01):
lot of great ideas too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yeah.
I guess my hope is too,especially if this is like in a
class setting that now all ofthese kids are in the same place
willing to, I don't know,support each other.
Because I think sometimes it canfeel really isolating having
these thoughts or these feelingsand knowing like, oh, other
people aren't ready for thistoo.
(27:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not the only one that feelslike I, you know, don't want to
just immediately kiss, you know,my boyfriend.
Right.
That we've known for like acouple days, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And to kind of let folks know ifyou're on the other side of
that, that other people mightnot be there yet.
And that's okay.
And not everyone is where you'reat.
And that's okay, too.
And so I think that's a big partof why specs educational and
formal educational studyingschools is so important to do in
(28:00):
groups.
Because everyone's getting thatsame information and able to see
that versus it is great to have,you know, these family
discussions as well.
And that's really important.
But when we talk aboutprevention and when we talk
about primary prevention ofsexual violence and things like
that, it's so important to buildthat community knowledge, right?
(28:23):
And let folks know thateveryone's getting the
information at the same time,even if they're thinking about
it differently or hearing itdifferently from other places.
SPEAKER_01 (28:36):
Yeah.
And yeah, I really like thisidea of normalizing.
It's so interesting.
Again, I'm going to use my ownpersonal experience here, but in
my formal education about sexwas learning about menstruation
and then later on learning aboutSTDs and, you know, what could
happen if you became pregnantand And just, I don't know, it
(28:58):
was just like also fear-based.
And I would love if the, ingeneral, the conversation became
more than just sex and STDs orpenetration and STDs.
It's more than, you know,pregnancy and this huge
conversation about relationshipsand safety and how to take care
(29:20):
of yourself and like physically,emotionally, spiritually through
this conversation.
experience of our sexualwellness.
SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Yeah.
Think about all the things like,you know, our sexual wellness
and health are tied to, youmentioned spiritually even,
right?
How many people have valuesaround sex and relationships
that are directly tied to theirspirituality or their religion?
You know, it's such an integralpart of our lives and our human
existence.
And I think that's where sex edis, and a lot of folks in this
(29:54):
space understand that, but noteverybody does, it is more than
anatomy and condoms on bananasand scaring people with pictures
of STIs.
It's about giving people,especially young people, which
are my main focus area, the tooland the information they need to
(30:16):
understand their bodies andbuild respectful relationships
and navigate their world andtheir the interaction and their
relationships with with agencyand dignity and care for
themselves and for others andit's not a one-size-fits-all
lesson plan out there there's aton of different curricula
(30:38):
there's a ton of differentresources and it really is an
ongoing conversation and it doesneed to be rooted in kind of
real lived experiences becausewe all have different
experiences.
And I think a lot about howculture and identity and power
(30:59):
and oppression shape what welearn about sex and consent and
connection.
And so, yeah, I just think it'svery important to think about
how we want that informationshared among society, but
especially amongst our youngergeneration.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
I guess, why do you think now more than ever, it's
important for people to betaking sex education seriously
or sex education as like afundamental part of things that
children and adolescents need tobe learning to take themselves
into adulthood?
(31:40):
It's a big question.
SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
Yeah, it's a big question.
It is just, yeah, I mean...
for all the reasons I said,right, is the important part of
humanity.
But now more than ever, I thinkbecause we're just in this time
of like you talked aboutcomplexity, but even more than
(32:06):
like complexity, I think likecontradiction, right?
Like we're in this time of deepcontradiction where on the one
hand, We're seeing a lot moreopen conversation about these
topics, about sex and sexualityand gender, than a lot of us
have even in our lifetime, muchless our parents.
(32:27):
But then at the same time, we'rewitnessing this political
backlash, right, between bookbans, where a lot of the books
that I was just talking aboutearlier, attacks on
comprehensive sex ed, theirintentional, organized attacks,
YouTube videos that tellparents, how do you tell your
school that you don't want anysex ed in your school?
(32:49):
And not to mention policy-wise,stripping LGBTQ rights and
bodily autonomy and all of thisstuff.
And so we have this dichotomy,this contradiction around us
where this topic is verypresent, we can find it, there's
a lot of different options outthere, but then we're also
(33:10):
seeing political leadersactively working against this
information, instituting policythat realizes sex educators,
that discredits research-based,evidence-based, comprehensive
sex ed.
And meanwhile, many of theseleaders have credible sexual
(33:34):
assault allegations againstthem.
And, you know, Our young peopleare seeing this.
They're caught in the middle ofthese tensions and
contradictions.
And so I think that, you know,it's also like in the
nightgowns, right?
And they say, like, we areseeing these nuanced
(33:56):
conversations about masculinitywith the new Netflix show,
Adolescence.
I don't know if you've seen it,but it's popular talking about,
you know, how this rigid idea ofmasculinity where men should
dominate at the expense ofwomen, right, is something that
(34:18):
is very prevalent and veryeasily accessible.
And so, you know, we have all ofthese things happening
simultaneously.
And like I said, young peopleare caught in the middle.
They're hungry for informationand...
clarity, right, and moreunderstanding.
(34:40):
Yeah.
And so I do think that makes itreally important to bring up in
our families, to advocate for inour schools, in our communities
as a mom, but also as agender-based violence
specialist.
I know the stakes are reallyhigh.
Yeah.
And they're very real.
(35:00):
And so our kids are growing upin a world that's really
connected, but also confusing.
And so if we don't give them thetools to navigate this, they're
going to be stuck with Google ormisinformation that they find in
other places that'sintentionally harmful in a lot
(35:24):
of ways sometimes.
So yeah, I think that's animportant message.
It's important for us at everylevel of society right now.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Yeah.
I keep trying to remind myself,even if we're all like just I
don't want to say one person,like if there's a lot of people
who are just one person movingin the direction to change
things and educate people andtell people based on this
research or based on theseexperiences, these things are
factual.
(35:55):
Yeah.
Hopefully we can make enoughnoise to disrupt the
misinformation that is outthere.
SPEAKER_02 (36:03):
Yeah, I mean, it's very scary to see.
I mean, even before the currentadministration, U.S., like,
federally would have financialincentives for states that did
abstinence-only education, eventhough we have mountains of
research that shows that that isnot effective.
(36:25):
And so, yeah, it's definitely...
It takes a lot of us to createchange, but also...
we can do that in just our ownsphere, right?
Like you're saying, it's justone person.
And I think that can hopefullybe a little bit more accessible
to think about what does thislook like in my family, in my
(36:45):
community?
You know, something I hear a lotas well in this field is, you
know, parents who, you know,talking about throwing my own
parents under the bus.
Not intentionally, they did thebest they can, right?
I love them.
But, you know, there was thisidea of the best way to keep
(37:07):
kids safe in terms of anythingrelated to sexuality or sexual
violence is just to controlthem, right?
Completely.
And, you know, the morerestrictions you put around
this, you put around them andwhat they're able to do, the
safer they'll be.
And I think that that is kindof, well, the one thing that's
(37:30):
kind of counter to my philosophyas a sex educator, which is
really justice and liberationand equality, is that we can see
what this looks like in ourcommunity or practice what this
might look like in ourcommunity.
To really promote body autonomy,I think of The idea of like
sleepovers.
(37:51):
Sleepovers comes up a lot,right?
And so many people are like, youknow, I've heard all of these
terrible stories about peoplewho are sexually abused, whether
by other children or by adultsthat are there.
And so my child will never,never go to a sleepover.
And, you know, when we havethese hardline approaches to
(38:13):
things without thinking aboutHow can we still promote bodily
autonomy?
How can we still promote, youknow, dignity and choice and
consent and balance the safetyof our kids, right?
And maybe for our community,that looks like, oh, well,
there's always two chaperonesfrom different families at a
(38:34):
sleepover.
Or, you know, we only do familysleepovers where we have two
other families come and eachfamily has their own tent or
whatever the thing is, right?
finding ways that you don't haveto just use control but we can
use communication and we can useproblem solving and we can try
to do fun things and show ourkids that that's possible but we
(38:59):
want to also highlight howimportant these conversations
are and that type of stuff soyeah I think that's an important
element of like how can we bringthis message, these concepts
into our own minds in differentways.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
And
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
maybe that hopefully will take off some of the
pressure of, we don't have tochange the world.
Not everyone can do that.
It's a big, it's a big, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I definitely think itstarts at home and in your
community and just, yeah, I hopeeveryone continues to have these
conversations that are informedand based on research and All
the good things we talked abouthere, but I want to respect your
time.
So please share with everyonewhere they can find you if they
(39:46):
want to connect with you orlearn more about what you have
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (39:51):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me andhaving this conversation.
My website isrootsandboundaries.com.
So my independent consultingwebsite.
firm is Roots and Boundariesbecause I think we all need
Roots and Boundaries to firm andrub ourselves and others.
(40:12):
And so rootsandboundaries.com,Roots and Boundaries on
Instagram, rootsandboundaries atgmail.com as well if you know
what's being cheap.
So there are a few places youcan
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
find me.
Well, thank you so much forsharing and thank you so much
for being on today.
And yeah, I hope people reachout to you.
You have a lot of good thingsgoing on and I really appreciate
the work you're doing in theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
Thank you.
You as well.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Okay.
Thanks, everyone.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears.
If you follow us or subscribe orleave a comment or review,
(40:58):
that'd be greatly helpful forother people to find us and also
just for me to get somefeedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to to bringingon guests and talking about
topics that are unique andinspiring to everyone.
So please let me know.
And this year, hopefully we'llbe full of a lot of community
(41:21):
building, a lot of publicspeaking, a lot of resource
sharing.
So I really encourage you tofollow us on social media at
well-minded counseling onInstagram as our handle, as well
as going directly to ourwebsite, wellmindcounseling.com
backslash redefining hyphen usto So you can be in the know
(41:42):
with all the things that arehappening in the Redefining Us
community.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
So excited to have you tune intoday.
I have with me Scottney Young,and she is a certified sex
(00:24):
educator, a gender-basedviolence specialist, and a
social worker.
And she's also the founder andlead consultant of Roots and
Boundaries, a sexual andreproductive health consulting
firm that works withorganizations around the world
to create programs that areinclusive, evidence-based,
culturally relevant, and rootedin justice.
(00:45):
We really talked I'm reallyexcited for you all to listen
(01:10):
today.
Enjoy.
Welcome back to Redefining Us,everyone.
I'm so happy that you're hereagain today.
And today I have with meScottney.
Yeah, just we'll dive right inand we can talk about what
inspired you to do the work thatyou do and what keeps you
(01:31):
passionate about showing up anddoing it every day.
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
What inspired me?
I think it's kind of two parts.
There's like the side of doingthis work.
where I didn't see a need forit, right?
Like, I think that the sexualityis such an important part of
being human, right?
(01:55):
It's like a key part of who weare and how we interact with
each other.
It's directly tied to the waythat we form romantic and sexual
relationships, which impacts thepart we choose or how and when
we become parents.
our physical and mental health,our safety, our sense of self,
you know, all of these thingsare tied to sexuality.
(02:18):
And I think for me, I've seen alot in the different things that
I've worked in, young people inparticular, but also, you know,
older selves as well, adults aswell, are really hungering for
information about this topic.
They feel like they don't reallyknow how to ask for more
(02:38):
information or find information.
There's a lot of people who areeven embarrassed to talk to
their doctors about sexualhealth issues.
And so when I see that andinclude the harmful and accurate
and dangerous information thatis readily available, it makes
(02:58):
you want to do this and want todo this work.
And so that's definitely a bigpart of it.
I would say the other part ismore personal.
I think that A lot of folks werereally kept by gender-based
violence, by anti-partnerviolence, and it's impacted my
own journey in a lot of ways.
I think a lot of times we see inthese stories where, you know, a
(03:22):
survivor is using an abusiverelationship to help what they
do.
But I think the reality is thatmany, many survivors end up
living with global abusivepartners for most of their lives
or kind of stuck in a cycle withthese partners.
And that way, Definitelyrethinking my family, and I'm
(03:42):
not kind of leading my own workwell for about almost three
years ago.
So, a beautiful partner takesher life.
From her father, to the Navy, upto school, to employers,
kindergarten, and kindergartenteacher who's going to be a
(04:02):
school principal.
And our family is still reallygrappling with that.
So, I definitely think we needto do this.
Yeah, that's
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
a really powerful story.
I appreciate you sharing that.
I think I don't know what thestats are.
You might know since you kind ofare in this world, but I'd
imagine, unfortunately, a lot ofpeople when they get into
relationships don't know that itmight become one that has like
domestic violence, a part of it.
And then at least from what Iknow, kind of gets stuck almost
(04:40):
and they don't know how toleave.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, we've seen that a lot.
I worked for my last job.
I was a gender-referenceddomestic violence prevention
specialists for the domesticviolence agency in Virginia.
And, you know, that's very muchthe case.
And there's a lot ofmisconceptions around people
like, you know, well, why don'tthey just leave?
(05:03):
Or, you know, I've been in thepersonal side.
Why did they end up at theAlamo?
And it doesn't start out thatway.
And by the time you're in it,you find...
and all this immense strain andthis immense fear that keeps you
in it.
And what we do know fromstatistics is that it typically
(05:26):
takes a survivor about seventimes before they can
successfully leave an abusivepartner because of that pull,
because of that control, becauseof that fear.
And on top of that, leaving isthe most dangerous time for a
lot of survivors.
So yeah, it is something that Ithink You know, in a lot of
(05:47):
ways, the work that I do isdirectly tied to it, because it
teaches people how to havehealthy relationships, but it
teaches people how to managetheir feelings and emotions and
interactions in a way that istruly loving and is based on
mutual self and self and safety,you know, and probably be fit
(06:09):
for life where we have lessempathy like that.
UNKNOWN (06:14):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:14):
I know some of the work that you're doing based on
our last conversation is writinga children's book about consent.
And I'd love for you to shareabout that because I think a lot
of our listeners would be reallyinterested.
I know I'm really interested tosee that come out.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah, same for remembering.
Yeah, so I've written achildren's book about consent.
I've written two versions of itbecause I currently live in
Michigan.
I live in Uganda at the moment.
So I've published a book here inUganda.
I'm a woman working onpublishing a U.S.
version currently withIllustrator right now, and I'm
(06:52):
really excited about it.
But basically, it's just alittle story for ages four to
seven, four to six.
And it's about not just the ideaof, you know, consent being no
means no, but really alsothinking about what does that
look like in a little person'slife?
(07:14):
And what does it mean to say no?
How difficult that can be whenyou don't want to hurt someone's
feelings.
Or what does it mean to hear noand deal with rejection?
Because rejection is a reallytough emotion to understand.
It's hard for adults.
It's hard for kids.
And there's a lot of skills thatwe need to build up to be able
(07:38):
to do that in a way where we canstill respect one another.
And so that's kind of what thestory is about, a little boy who
has to say no to his littlebrother who really wants
something, and then he learnsthis lesson with his dad, and
then later on the next day atschool, someone says no to him,
(07:58):
and he has to manage that withthe feelings and the emotional
guidance that his dad gave himthe day before.
So I'm very excited about that.
The children's book space aroundconsent and body autonomy on all
of these really foundationaltopics related to sexual health
and well-being and healthyrelationships.
(08:20):
It's really, really expanding,and it's super cool to see.
It's kind of a passion area ofmine in collecting children's
books about consent and sex edtopics, and there's just so many
amazing options out there, soit's a really...
great time to be a parent whomight be looking for that type
(08:40):
of resource because there's alot of options.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I imagine it's a topic thatmaybe like I'm thinking about my
childhood and I don't think Iever had a book that taught me
about consent.
I just saw this post that wastalking about sharing what I
thought was really interesting.
And it feels like it has a lotof parallels with consent rather
(09:03):
than Teaching your kid to alwayssay yes to sharing.
You can also teach them it'sokay to say no, that they don't
have to share and what's theirsis theirs.
You know, sometimes it's kind toshare, but sometimes protecting
your own space and your ownpeace by not sharing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:21):
Yeah, exactly.
And that's absolutely a topicthat comes up in my book as
well, is that I try to practicewith my daughter who's four.
It's kind of unfair for adultsto expect kids to share
everything when we don't shareeverything.
You know, we don't share a lotof our possessions day in and
day out.
(09:41):
for a variety of reasons.
And so helping her understandthe value of sharing, right?
The importance of buildingcommunity and how that can be a
good thing.
But if there are things that youdon't want to share, That's
okay, too.
But then what do we have to doabout that?
If we have friends coming overto play and you don't want to
share something, it's probablybetter that we put it away,
(10:03):
right?
And instead of, you know, justholding it where they can see it
and not letting them touch it.
That's not a good way to buildcommunity and build friends and
make friends.
So trying to give kids theskills and the a channel for
them to actually voice that andexpress that part of their
autonomy is equally important.
(10:24):
And that was actually somethingreally interesting when I was, I
had written this story in kindof an American context and then
working with a Ugandan publisherhere trying to adapt it and to
be, you know, more culturallyrelevant and culturally
responsive.
And we were really strugglingwith the editor of like, you
(10:46):
would never say no to sharingsomething here.
It is just not a part of theculture.
It's actually verycounterculture.
There's this concept of Ubuntuand this concept of everything's
communal, everything is shared.
And so it's like, We had tochange the story to think about
what would be a reason why youmight not want to allow someone
(11:08):
to do something.
And it's like, oh, okay, hedoesn't want his little brother
to play with this because hislittle brother, it could hurt
him.
You know, the small pieces, hecould choke on it or something
like that.
And so that made more sense.
And so there's also thiscultural piece that I think is
really important, especially ina multicultural context.
society like the U.S.
and kind of my background andsome of the different places
(11:30):
I've lived and worked and thinkabout, well, what does that look
like here?
Or what does it look like there?
And how can we explore thosetopics?
SPEAKER_01 (11:38):
Yeah, I imagine it's a really, the word complicated
is coming to me, but likenuanced, right?
Like even teaching consent andsharing and this idea of
protecting the Yourself and yourbodily autonomy is very nuanced
conversation and trying to havea similar conversation with
(11:59):
people from multiplebackgrounds, I imagine, just
grows more and more complicatedthe more people you have in the
conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (12:06):
Yeah, yeah.
And even just, you know, withina family, right?
Like, you know, there's a lot ofdiscussion there.
or kind of awareness buildingaround giving kids bodily
autonomy.
And the example that's alwaysused is like, you don't want a
hard grandma, we don't ask you.
That doesn't fly in a lot offamilies or between generations,
(12:28):
right?
And so thinking about, you know,what does that really mean for
our family and how can webalance our familial and
cultural values with this ideaof the type of bodily autonomy
and cohesiveness that we want toinstill in our children as well
because both of those things weusually you know want to pass on
(12:49):
to our kids right family valuesor cultural norms and maybe
there are things we want to do alittle differently and so that
nuance can be a bit scary forparents I think sometimes of
like how do I do this or I had afriend write me once because she
was like You know, I've alwaystaught my daughter, no means no.
(13:10):
And we're a body, it's your bodyand your choice.
And I was trying to get herdressed for school and she was
just screaming, no, it's mybody, my choice, my body, my
choice.
And she was just like, oh no,how do I respond to that?
And so, yeah, it can be verycomplicated with our own
feelings and also, you know,with the role of a parent.
(13:32):
And I think it's important toremember that Everything that we
teach kids, we've taught on thisscaffolding framework, right?
We add layers to it as they getolder.
And consent and bodily autonomyand all of these other topics
are the same way.
But first, we might say, youknow, you can always say no.
(13:53):
And then we'll add that layer oflife.
And with kids, I do need to keepyou safe.
So I can acknowledge that youdon't want to do this, but I do
need to help you, right?
So we're adding lower levels.
understanding as their capacityto understand expands as well.
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah, I guess for parents who are maybe just
approaching this topic for thefirst time, maybe with someone
who's already a little bitolder, maybe they already have
an eight or nine year old, I'massuming you would approach this
conversation different than youwould with a four year old.
Do you have any tools or ideasfor people who maybe are like,
okay, I'm already past the agefor the book that you've written
(14:35):
that made a nine-year-old belike, mom, I don't want to read
this.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I will say one, there are booksfor the next age bracket up.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
It's
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
a really cool, yeah, like I said, it's really blown
up in the last decade or so.
And, you know, I'm a big fan ofMahari's work that is like a
positive family book.
And they have on their website awhole resource list that you can
look by book, you can look byarticle, you can look by video,
whatever.
You know, amains.org has a lotof great resources for short
(15:11):
videos that are designed formiddle school age, talk a lot
about puberty topics.
You know, that's reallysomething you can watch
together.
You could have your child watchit and then ask them questions
after.
And then the regular India andstuff that you consume There's
always lessons, there's alwaysopportunities to have
conversation around.
(15:32):
You know, if you're watchingsomething and you're like, what
does it look like?
He really wants to do that andhis friends are pressuring him.
Like, what do you think aboutthat, right?
And look for those opportunitiesto have those conversations.
It's really never too late.
And it's also never too late togo back.
I think there's this idea thatfor parents, sometimes we have
this pressure of, I have to saythe right thing.
(15:53):
You know, my child asked thisquestion and I answered it wrong
and I don't know what to do now.
And it's totally okay.
Not only is it okay, but it'ssuch a good example to be like,
you know, you know, yesterdayyou asked me this question about
where do babies come from?
And I really don't know how toanswer it.
And I think I gave you the wronganswer.
(16:14):
Can we talk about it again?
Right?
And showing them what that lookslike to not know the answer to
them.
And that's okay, right?
And how can we find it?
And so, yeah, I do think theconversation can get even more
interesting as your kid getsolder and there's room to
(16:35):
explore things together,especially given the stuff, the
kind of range of content andmedia and information that kids
are exposed to.
You know, they are going to askyou questions that you don't
know the answer to.
And so, yeah, releasing thatfear of you don't have the right
answer and just letting yourselfexplore it with them is, I
(16:56):
think, a good way to foster thatrelationship and that curiosity
and help them see that they cantrust you.
And they will continue to bringthings to you if they feel like
they can trust you and you'renot going to judge them and
you're not going to lie to them.
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Yeah, I guess what I'm kind of hearing you say is
really for the parent redefiningwhat the conversation looks
like.
So I think at least again, I'mgoing to use myself as an
example and maybe throw myparents a little bit under the
bus here.
But I think my experience wasthere was all this buildup to
have one conversation.
(17:32):
Right.
One conversation.
And I think back and I'm like,Man, it might have been easier
to have like little microconversations along the way
rather than having what feltlike this really awkward,
uncomfortable conversation inthe fourth grade.
(17:52):
Right.
What about talking about it whenI was five or six or seven and
just building it up?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Wow.
Yeah, exactly.
That idea of scaffolding notonly is better for our child's
development, Yeah, that's timeto become more comfortable with
these topics and to kind ofpractice having these
conversations.
And, you know, at the beginning,it kind of starts with just
teaching anatomically correctnames for body parts, right?
(18:20):
And how important that can befor health or safety, for all of
these things.
But then also, so when you wantto talk about it later, they
already have that vocabulary andyou don't have to, you know,
start some scratch of like, youknow, well, we've all moved over
this, but technically it's this.
And then you're like, wait,what?
Like, so yeah, it's such a, Imean, yeah, I hesitate to say
(18:46):
better because I try to be, youknow, but I do think it's a much
more accessible way to approachthese topics with your kids is
to have these microconversations that come up all
the time.
Find, you know, children's booksthat have these topics.
So, you know, it's one book thatyou read out of however many
(19:07):
books you have right in yourfamily library.
And I'm kind of building on thata little bit, you know, every
day as they get older and asthese things come up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yeah, it helps to normalize the conversation.
So then when maybe your childhas a question, they will be
like, oh, I can ask mom and dadabout this thing.
I don't have to go ask the kidon the playground this question
and get potentially inaccurateinformation.
I can talk to my parents.
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yeah, more realistically, Google, right?
A lot of young people, even, youknow, middle grade.
kids are using Google to answerthese questions.
They're now even like Captain T,right?
All the AI stuff.
That could be an important partof the conversation, too, is if
you want to find information,how do we make sure we're
(19:58):
finding real information,credible information?
You can show them how to searchsomething on Google and have
that conversation with them aswell.
And so I just think, yeah, it'sa much more accessible and
approachable way for parents,too, to think that and then you
start out, like I said, withkind of base level of like, you
(20:21):
know, where do babies come from?
Well, there's a sperm and an eggand they join together and it
grows in uterus and then there'sa baby.
And that's pretty good.
Most kids don't have a lot ofdetailed questions after that
because you've given themsomething solid, right?
And then when they do, then youcan add a layer to it rather
(20:42):
than add more information to it.
UNKNOWN (20:45):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (20:46):
What do you think is the most surprising thing that
maybe people ask you a questionabout over and over that you're
like, hmm, I'm surprised thisisn't widely known knowledge?
SPEAKER_02 (20:59):
That's interesting.
That's an interesting question.
I think it's kind of differentfor kids than for adults and
parents that I work with andstuff.
Because I think one questionthat comes up a lot with parents
is, how can I talk about thisstuff?
Won't I just be teaching themhow to go have sex?
And, you know, isn't this justgoing to make them more curious
(21:21):
about things?
And thankfully, there is a tonof research that I can turn to,
that I can point parents to thatshow that that is not the case
at all.
That, you know...
Introducing kids tocomprehensive sex ed topics,
both in a formal educationsetting, but also in a family
(21:45):
setting, are strongcorrelations.
And I think the argument couldbe made for some causation as
well, are strong correlations todelayed sexual activity, to
young people, you know, havingmuch higher levels of confidence
of self-esteem of you know,better relational or emotional
(22:07):
intelligence, all of thesethings.
And so that's not what we see.
And if you just think about it,you're not usually like, you
know, wow, my mom just talkedabout sex.
Now I'm going to go look uppornography.
Like, you know, your braindoesn't really work that way,
especially for young kids.
They're just like, huh, that'sinteresting.
(22:28):
And then they move on, usually,right?
They move on to...
Minecraft or whatever the nextthing we're going to do is.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So that's definitely a questionthat I get a lot.
It really spans.
It is just a wide array.
And I usually save all myanonymous questions from some of
(22:53):
the classrooms that I do becausethey're always so interesting.
But I think for a lot of theolder age group that I have,
There seem to be more questionsaround either one, things that
are seen in pornography andwanting to understand it and
wondering, is it real?
Is this what people expect?
(23:13):
That type of stuff.
And then on the other hand, Iget a lot of questions around
like, how do I tell my boyfriendor my girlfriend that I'm not
ready to kiss them or to havesex or something like that,
right?
That feeling of feeling thissocial pressure to...
Do things to have sexualexperiences that you're not
(23:36):
ready for or wanting, but justnot knowing how to have that
conversation at all.
And so that question comes up alot too.
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
am curious how you would answer that for a young
person.
As a therapist, I've found thatI have some clients that come in
and they're like, oh, like, youknow, my girlfriend said that
she'll break up with me if Idon't do this.
Or my boyfriend doesn't want tobe with me unless I do this.
It's like, then I talk to, Itend to talk to them like, is
(24:06):
that a relationship that youwant to be in?
If they are saying you do thisor this other thing will happen,
that feels like a really bigconsequence for saying no.
Do you want to be in arelationship?
that has that kind ofconsequence for saying no to
something that you don't want todo.
And that's the way that Iapproach it, but I'm not sure if
(24:26):
you would give differentperspective from the
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
education.
Yeah.
Yeah.
From the education piece, Ithink that's kind of a
foundational part of it.
It was like, I kind of frame itin that, right?
Like first and foremost, youknow, if you feel like saying no
to somebody is, is going to makethem break up with you or treat
you poorly or something likethat.
(24:49):
You should be asking yourself,you know, is that about the
person you really want to bewith?
Because that is coercion.
That is abusive or at a minimumunhealthy.
And so kind of, you know,setting the scene with that.
And then the education piececomes in, which I think is
really important becausesometimes grownups can get more
(25:13):
conceptual.
And young people want concrete,like what exactly do I say,
right?
And so I think a lot of peopledo.
I think a lot of people do.
So then we're going to turn tolike, okay, so thinking about
how do you bring it up first,right?
Text message comes up because alot of kids have these
(25:35):
conversations on text message orinstant messaging aspects of
different apps, right?
And so, you know, you can ask,oh, it seemed like you wanted to
be more the last time we weretogether.
Like, I am interested.
I just don't know if I'm readyfor that right now.
And leave it at that.
(25:57):
You don't have to go too muchinto it and see what your
partner says.
And then we can go from there.
Sometimes when you say that,might be pleasantly surprised
that they're like, oh my gosh, Iunderstand.
I don't want you to feeluncomfortable.
I like you, right?
Or they might be like, well, youknow, if that's how it's going
(26:17):
to be, then I might end thisrelationship or whatever and
then see earlier conversations.
But yeah, and so I am big onhelping young people, especially
adolescents, think about whatdoes that communication look
like in their life?
Because I can tell them like,oh, follow the having
conversations in person andblah, blah, blah.
(26:38):
But that's just not the reality.
They're not going to usually.
Younger generations don't have alot of practice having prep
conversations in person becausethey have all the other options.
So, you know, moving them wherethey're at with that and
thinking about what can you say?
Keep it simple.
I'm usually asking the otherstudents for ideas when I have a
(27:01):
lot of great ideas too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Yeah.
I guess my hope is too,especially if this is like in a
class setting that now all ofthese kids are in the same place
willing to, I don't know,support each other.
Because I think sometimes it canfeel really isolating having
these thoughts or these feelingsand knowing like, oh, other
people aren't ready for thistoo.
(27:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not the only one that feelslike I, you know, don't want to
just immediately kiss, you know,my boyfriend.
Right.
That we've known for like acouple days, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And to kind of let folks know ifyou're on the other side of
that, that other people mightnot be there yet.
And that's okay.
And not everyone is where you'reat.
And that's okay, too.
And so I think that's a big partof why specs educational and
formal educational studyingschools is so important to do in
(28:00):
groups.
Because everyone's getting thatsame information and able to see
that versus it is great to have,you know, these family
discussions as well.
And that's really important.
But when we talk aboutprevention and when we talk
about primary prevention ofsexual violence and things like
that, it's so important to buildthat community knowledge, right?
(28:23):
And let folks know thateveryone's getting the
information at the same time,even if they're thinking about
it differently or hearing itdifferently from other places.
SPEAKER_01 (28:36):
Yeah.
And yeah, I really like thisidea of normalizing.
It's so interesting.
Again, I'm going to use my ownpersonal experience here, but in
my formal education about sexwas learning about menstruation
and then later on learning aboutSTDs and, you know, what could
happen if you became pregnantand And just, I don't know, it
(28:58):
was just like also fear-based.
And I would love if the, ingeneral, the conversation became
more than just sex and STDs orpenetration and STDs.
It's more than, you know,pregnancy and this huge
conversation about relationshipsand safety and how to take care
(29:20):
of yourself and like physically,emotionally, spiritually through
this conversation.
experience of our sexualwellness.
SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
Yeah.
Think about all the things like,you know, our sexual wellness
and health are tied to, youmentioned spiritually even,
right?
How many people have valuesaround sex and relationships
that are directly tied to theirspirituality or their religion?
You know, it's such an integralpart of our lives and our human
existence.
And I think that's where sex edis, and a lot of folks in this
(29:54):
space understand that, but noteverybody does, it is more than
anatomy and condoms on bananasand scaring people with pictures
of STIs.
It's about giving people,especially young people, which
are my main focus area, the tooland the information they need to
(30:16):
understand their bodies andbuild respectful relationships
and navigate their world andtheir the interaction and their
relationships with with agencyand dignity and care for
themselves and for others andit's not a one-size-fits-all
lesson plan out there there's aton of different curricula
(30:38):
there's a ton of differentresources and it really is an
ongoing conversation and it doesneed to be rooted in kind of
real lived experiences becausewe all have different
experiences.
And I think a lot about howculture and identity and power
(30:59):
and oppression shape what welearn about sex and consent and
connection.
And so, yeah, I just think it'svery important to think about
how we want that informationshared among society, but
especially amongst our youngergeneration.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
I guess, why do you think now more than ever, it's
important for people to betaking sex education seriously
or sex education as like afundamental part of things that
children and adolescents need tobe learning to take themselves
into adulthood?
(31:40):
It's a big question.
SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
Yeah, it's a big question.
It is just, yeah, I mean...
for all the reasons I said,right, is the important part of
humanity.
But now more than ever, I thinkbecause we're just in this time
of like you talked aboutcomplexity, but even more than
(32:06):
like complexity, I think likecontradiction, right?
Like we're in this time of deepcontradiction where on the one
hand, We're seeing a lot moreopen conversation about these
topics, about sex and sexualityand gender, than a lot of us
have even in our lifetime, muchless our parents.
(32:27):
But then at the same time, we'rewitnessing this political
backlash, right, between bookbans, where a lot of the books
that I was just talking aboutearlier, attacks on
comprehensive sex ed, theirintentional, organized attacks,
YouTube videos that tellparents, how do you tell your
school that you don't want anysex ed in your school?
(32:49):
And not to mention policy-wise,stripping LGBTQ rights and
bodily autonomy and all of thisstuff.
And so we have this dichotomy,this contradiction around us
where this topic is verypresent, we can find it, there's
a lot of different options outthere, but then we're also
(33:10):
seeing political leadersactively working against this
information, instituting policythat realizes sex educators,
that discredits research-based,evidence-based, comprehensive
sex ed.
And meanwhile, many of theseleaders have credible sexual
(33:34):
assault allegations againstthem.
And, you know, Our young peopleare seeing this.
They're caught in the middle ofthese tensions and
contradictions.
And so I think that, you know,it's also like in the
nightgowns, right?
And they say, like, we areseeing these nuanced
(33:56):
conversations about masculinitywith the new Netflix show,
Adolescence.
I don't know if you've seen it,but it's popular talking about,
you know, how this rigid idea ofmasculinity where men should
dominate at the expense ofwomen, right, is something that
(34:18):
is very prevalent and veryeasily accessible.
And so, you know, we have all ofthese things happening
simultaneously.
And like I said, young peopleare caught in the middle.
They're hungry for informationand...
clarity, right, and moreunderstanding.
(34:40):
Yeah.
And so I do think that makes itreally important to bring up in
our families, to advocate for inour schools, in our communities
as a mom, but also as agender-based violence
specialist.
I know the stakes are reallyhigh.
Yeah.
And they're very real.
(35:00):
And so our kids are growing upin a world that's really
connected, but also confusing.
And so if we don't give them thetools to navigate this, they're
going to be stuck with Google ormisinformation that they find in
other places that'sintentionally harmful in a lot
(35:24):
of ways sometimes.
So yeah, I think that's animportant message.
It's important for us at everylevel of society right now.
SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Yeah.
I keep trying to remind myself,even if we're all like just I
don't want to say one person,like if there's a lot of people
who are just one person movingin the direction to change
things and educate people andtell people based on this
research or based on theseexperiences, these things are
factual.
(35:55):
Yeah.
Hopefully we can make enoughnoise to disrupt the
misinformation that is outthere.
SPEAKER_02 (36:03):
Yeah, I mean, it's very scary to see.
I mean, even before the currentadministration, U.S., like,
federally would have financialincentives for states that did
abstinence-only education, eventhough we have mountains of
research that shows that that isnot effective.
(36:25):
And so, yeah, it's definitely...
It takes a lot of us to createchange, but also...
we can do that in just our ownsphere, right?
Like you're saying, it's justone person.
And I think that can hopefullybe a little bit more accessible
to think about what does thislook like in my family, in my
(36:45):
community?
You know, something I hear a lotas well in this field is, you
know, parents who, you know,talking about throwing my own
parents under the bus.
Not intentionally, they did thebest they can, right?
I love them.
But, you know, there was thisidea of the best way to keep
(37:07):
kids safe in terms of anythingrelated to sexuality or sexual
violence is just to controlthem, right?
Completely.
And, you know, the morerestrictions you put around
this, you put around them andwhat they're able to do, the
safer they'll be.
And I think that that is kindof, well, the one thing that's
(37:30):
kind of counter to my philosophyas a sex educator, which is
really justice and liberationand equality, is that we can see
what this looks like in ourcommunity or practice what this
might look like in ourcommunity.
To really promote body autonomy,I think of The idea of like
sleepovers.
(37:51):
Sleepovers comes up a lot,right?
And so many people are like, youknow, I've heard all of these
terrible stories about peoplewho are sexually abused, whether
by other children or by adultsthat are there.
And so my child will never,never go to a sleepover.
And, you know, when we havethese hardline approaches to
(38:13):
things without thinking aboutHow can we still promote bodily
autonomy?
How can we still promote, youknow, dignity and choice and
consent and balance the safetyof our kids, right?
And maybe for our community,that looks like, oh, well,
there's always two chaperonesfrom different families at a
(38:34):
sleepover.
Or, you know, we only do familysleepovers where we have two
other families come and eachfamily has their own tent or
whatever the thing is, right?
finding ways that you don't haveto just use control but we can
use communication and we can useproblem solving and we can try
to do fun things and show ourkids that that's possible but we
(38:59):
want to also highlight howimportant these conversations
are and that type of stuff soyeah I think that's an important
element of like how can we bringthis message, these concepts
into our own minds in differentways.
SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
And
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
maybe that hopefully will take off some of the
pressure of, we don't have tochange the world.
Not everyone can do that.
It's a big, it's a big, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I definitely think itstarts at home and in your
community and just, yeah, I hopeeveryone continues to have these
conversations that are informedand based on research and All
the good things we talked abouthere, but I want to respect your
time.
So please share with everyonewhere they can find you if they
(39:46):
want to connect with you orlearn more about what you have
going on.
SPEAKER_02 (39:51):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me andhaving this conversation.
My website isrootsandboundaries.com.
So my independent consultingwebsite.
firm is Roots and Boundariesbecause I think we all need
Roots and Boundaries to firm andrub ourselves and others.
(40:12):
And so rootsandboundaries.com,Roots and Boundaries on
Instagram, rootsandboundaries atgmail.com as well if you know
what's being cheap.
So there are a few places youcan
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
find me.
Well, thank you so much forsharing and thank you so much
for being on today.
And yeah, I hope people reachout to you.
You have a lot of good thingsgoing on and I really appreciate
the work you're doing in theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
Thank you.
You as well.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Okay.
Thanks, everyone.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears.
If you follow us or subscribe orleave a comment or review,
(40:58):
that'd be greatly helpful forother people to find us and also
just for me to get somefeedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to to bringingon guests and talking about
topics that are unique andinspiring to everyone.
So please let me know.
And this year, hopefully we'llbe full of a lot of community
(41:21):
building, a lot of publicspeaking, a lot of resource
sharing.
So I really encourage you tofollow us on social media at
well-minded counseling onInstagram as our handle, as well
as going directly to ourwebsite, wellmindcounseling.com
backslash redefining hyphen usto So you can be in the know
(41:42):
with all the things that arehappening in the Redefining Us
community.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
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