September 4, 2025 • 36 mins
Postpartum depression doesn’t just affect the birthing parent, it can impact the entire family. In this conversation, therapists Stephanie Konter-O’Hara and Courtney Miller break down what postpartum depression actually looks like, why it can appear months after birth, and how the right support can make all the difference.
We debunk harmful myths and share practical tools for bonding with your baby, improving communication with your partner, and reclaiming your sense of self. Stephanie and Courtney share from both their expertise and empathy. Whether you’re navigating postpartum depression yourself or supporting a loved one, you’ll walk away with new insights, hope, and a reminder that you are not alone.
About Courtney: Courtney works with clients of all ages-from young children to elders-work with and overcome the difficulties that life may bring. She has experience working with groups, families/couples, and individuals. She has experience in treating eating disorders, bullying, depression, anxiety, DV, divorce, substance abuse, grief, sexual abuse, and LGBTQ, among others. Courtney's approach is rooted in the belief that everyone has the power to change, they may just need the help in finding it. Her foundation is in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Play Therapy, Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, and Existentialism. Courtney obtained her Master's degree in Marriage, Couple, and Family Counseling at Walden University. She has advanced training in adolescent bullying and DV/sexual abuse.
Connect with Courtney - https://wellmindedcounseling.com/meet-the-broomfield-colorado-therapist-team
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Please leave us a review or rating! These help get the show out to more women like you wanting to have these conversations.
Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling
I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZT9P3RB?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&bestFormat=true
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
Today we have a guest with us,Courtney Miller, who is a
(00:22):
therapist on the Well-Mindedteam.
That's the practice that I ownin Broomfield, Colorado.
Courtney is a newer mom, and sheworks with children and elders
to overcome difficulties thatlife may bring.
She has experience working withgroups, families, couples, and
(00:43):
individuals, and has experiencein working with eating
disorders, bullying issues,depression, anxiety, domestic
violence, divorce, substanceabuse, and sexual abuse, among
other concerns that people maybe facing.
And I'm really excited for youto listen to this conversation
that we have about postpartumdepression and all of the
(01:06):
intricacies of postpartum mentalhealth concerns because they are
diverse.
But today we're focusingprimarily on postpartum and how
it's different from other mentalhealth issues that can develop
in postpartum.
I hope you have a great listenand welcome feedback.
(01:26):
If anyone has any furtherquestions about this topic, be
happy to do other episodes thatare in the same vein.
So let's get into it today.
(01:57):
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie CantorO'Hara.
I'm a licensed professionalcounselor, and I have with me
today Courtney Miller, who'salso a licensed professional
counselor in Colorado.
So welcome, Courtney.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Hey, I'm Courtney Miller.
I'm a licensed therapist.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
So we're here to talk about postpartum depression
and potentially other postpartummental health concerns.
So let's just kind of dive rightin.
A lot of people have heard ofbaby blues and postpartum
depression, and I was hoping youcan share with the listeners
what are the differences?
(02:36):
How does someone know whenthey're experiencing one thing
rather than the other?
Of
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
course.
So everyone knows, or at least agood portion of people know,
that right after they have ababy, they go home.
It's exhausting because you'reBody has completely changed.
You're getting hardly any sleep.
So for the first couple of days,you might be crying because of
exhaustion.
(03:02):
But then after a couple of days,it slowly wears off.
Postpartum depression issomething that will continue on.
And so if it continues on formore than a couple of days,
that's the first sign.
If you are not finding anyenjoyment, if you're not feeling
like you're connecting, With thebaby, which usually it sounds
(03:26):
harder than it actually is,you'll see that baby smile or
wink at you.
And if you're thinking, okay,why am I not actually enjoying
this?
How am I not experiencing this?
That is also a sign.
And if you feel like nobody elseis getting this, that's
understandable.
(03:47):
But I just want to let everyoneknow that there are people out
there that you can talk to.
There are group, part groups.
There's also therapies for this.
One of the best is cognitivebehavioral therapy where you are
taught to challenge thesethoughts and realize your
(04:08):
strength and helping get overthat, realizing what you need to
do to believe in yourself again.
Also, one of the benefits is torelax, slowly start gaining your
strength back.
And another big sign is that ifyou are feeling where you are
wanting to hurt yourself, a lotof people feel that postpartum
(04:32):
depression is where you arefeeling that wanting to harm the
baby, which, yes, it can.
But a lot of people don'trealize that one of the biggest
symptoms of it is wanting tohurt you.
So I wanted to really focus onthat state that that is you can
reach out to a therapist.
(04:52):
You can also reach out to 988and gasp with them about it.
They will understand.
They will walk you through it.
They will help you find ways.
One of the best is to relax, tofind social support, which if
you can think of it off the topof your head, as soon as you
(05:13):
start being at home with thatbaby, that is one of the best.
Is it like your significantother, friends?
family anything and then maybeyou can work something for them
to come and take care of thatbaby throughout the day so that
way you can slowly get some timefor yourself slowly be able to
(05:33):
start eating healthy again beingable to walk outside and you
will be able to feel if that isstarting to go down you're
feeling starting to go down andyou're able to enjoy your life
again If you're able to actuallyfeel like you're connecting with
that baby.
If you're able to communicatewith your significant other.
(05:55):
And when you look in the mirror,remind yourself that you are not
in the wrong.
Tell yourself something positiveabout yourself every day.
That you brought this baby in.
And that you are trying to getthrough this.
Tell yourself something that youlove about yourself.
Something positive.
And at the end of the day,trying to think of one positive
(06:18):
thing that you got through.
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
Young, I was going to say one of the biggest
protective factors, which arekind of highlighting here,
Courtney, for people to recoverfrom postpartum depression is
this feeling that you believe inyourself, this what's called
self-efficacy.
But basically, the protectivefactor is believing that you can
(06:40):
recover and believing that youcan do the job of being the
baby's parent.
Usually having that internalstrength and believing in
yourself is one of the bestprotective factors for
postpartum depression and helpsmove people to recovery after
experiencing it.
(07:00):
Another thing that I wanted totouch on, you mentioned the 988
number.
The great thing about that arethose people are available 24-7.
So even if you have a therapist,you probably can't call them at
2 a.m.
during a A night waking.
But if you needed to talk tosomeone right then and there,
988 is available 24-7.
(07:21):
So just wanted to state that forpeople who maybe are not
familiar with 988.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah, that is one of the best things because those
babies do cry and wake you up atall times.
But at night,
SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
yeah.
And I feel like most people tendto have their darkest thoughts
about...
suicidal thoughts or thoughtsabout harming the baby late at
night when they're alone.
And so having a resource to tapinto during those harder times
is really important if you'restruggling from postpartum
depression.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Exactly.
I did want to cover on whenyou're feeling like you're able
to get back out there, startworking, this may still follow
you.
It might be a lot easier but itmight still follow you work may
be very difficult but i want youto really focus on you and let
(08:16):
you know that you are stillgetting through it that work
doesn't really understand whatyou are doing maybe if you have
to communicate with them see ifyou can come up with a plan with
your therapist about going inthere slower because when you're
getting through this it's Thehardest time is always when you
(08:38):
find out that you have it andyou find out what you're going
through.
Once you start working up, startclimbing up, it starts getting a
little easier.
You start noticing the changes.
You start noticing that you'vegot grasp on everything, that
these people are behind you.
And even the people at work willbe behind you if you just let
(08:59):
them know that you might need alittle bit of help.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Yeah, I think asking for help is definitely really
important, not just from atherapist, but also maybe your
co-workers or your boss.
And hopefully it'll beunderstanding, but I think
giving them context of why youmight be showing up to work not
as your best self could behelpful in some cases.
(09:24):
And if you don't feel like it'sa safe place to bring it up,
hopefully you have an HRdepartment that can help you
navigate the situation.
I think another really importantthing to recognize about
postpartum depression is if itUnfortunately, the highest risk
(09:56):
of maternal suicide is between 8and 10 months because they
believe, quote unquote, thatthey should feel better by now,
even if they got diagnosed withpostpartum depression earlier
on.
And so this idea of I'm stillnot better happens.
tends to lead to people feelingmore suicidal.
(10:18):
So I think it's important toname that so people continue to
go to therapy and do cognitivebehavioral therapy and continue
to reach out to their supportsbecause it may take longer than
you want to feel better whenyou're experiencing depression.
Depression is one of thosemental concerns that can linger.
And so giving yourself grace isreally important.
(10:41):
because it may not just be like,oh, I've started seeing a
therapist.
I feel better now.
You know, it's some work.
So coming to therapy weeklywould probably be really
beneficial for a person in thisposition.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
Stephanie, I like how you said that, how you were
talking about how depression cantake a long time.
I highly suggest that peoplesuffering from this focus more
on the word depression, notnecessarily on postpartum,
because when people hearpostpartum, It's like, okay,
(11:12):
it's after you have a baby.
A couple of months after, Ishould be fine.
And they don't even see the worddepression or know what that
word means.
But depression can last foryears or it could just last for
a couple months.
Every person is different.
It depends on how you work withthem.
(11:32):
If you ignore it, it could lastlonger.
It could get worse if you act onit every day.
I highly suggest that you takethe work on the homework and
skills that your therapistsuggests.
Or tell the therapist the truthand everything because
therapists will not judge you.
Those kind of things that willreally help a lot and help you
(11:57):
get control of it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah, I think what you just kind of highlighted is
really important.
The more open that you can be intherapy, the better.
Unfortunately, there is a lot ofstigma around mental health, not
just specifically postpartum,but I think it's exacerbated
sometimes in postpartum becausea lot of women have this fear
that if I share that I want tohurt myself or if I share that
(12:20):
I'm really depressed and havinga hard time functioning, that
someone's going to want to takemy baby away from me or I'm not
a good mother.
And saying those things out loudcan be really triggering to
people.
are triggering to think aboutand also triggering to maybe say
to people who are notprofessionals, but therapists
who are trained in perinatalhealth will be able to identify
(12:43):
the difference between, oh, thisis a thought that I just am
feeling, not a thought that I'mgoing to act on.
and be able to differentiatethat.
And hopefully the likelihood ofsomeone wanting to take your
baby away is significantlyreduced when you're speaking to
a professional.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
I like that you brought that up, Stephanie.
One, because professionals knowthe difference.
They know what is a sign thatthey need to take the baby away.
And they know what thedifference is that people are
just thinking differently.
But I also wanted to bring uphow society views this, how
(13:26):
society thinks of postpartumdepression.
Because most of the time thesewomen are hurting themselves or
wanting to hurt themselves, notthat baby.
They're wanting to help the babyand that's why they're harming
themselves because they feelthat they can't.
But because of media, everybodyviews it differently.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah.
I was going to speak to that.
Oftentimes people, when theythink of postpartum depression,
I think there's this confusionaround postpartum psychosis and
postpartum depression.
Sometimes when people experiencepostpartum psychosis, which is
more delusions and hearing ofvoices or believing that they're
(14:09):
getting commands, that leads toharming a child.
And that is an emergentsituation that you definitely
need to get help with, becauseif you're feeling those things
and thinking those things, youshould get help in order to
prevent that from happening.
But I think in mass media,there's confusion between
postpartum depression and whatdepression looks like compared
(14:31):
to postpartum psychosis.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yes, exactly.
And
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
being able to know the difference, again, is
something a professional canhelp you decipher.
And most people...
They're experiencing postpartumdepression.
I believe it's such a smallnumber.
I actually think I have it herethat outlines how many people
experience postpartum psychosis.
It's one out of a thousandwomen.
(14:56):
So that's a pretty small numberwhere I believe the percentage
of women who experiencepostpartum depression is one out
of five women.
So the likelihood of psychosisis much smaller, right?
If you would just look at thenumbers.
(15:16):
So I just wanted to say that Ithink media can confuse those
two.
Definitely.
And
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I'm glad you put that up because that confuses
everybody.
They automatically think thatsomeone's got that if someone is
showing that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
I think
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
there's a lot of alarmists.
That happens because everyone,of course, wants the best for
the child.
And there can be heightenedanxiety around those types of
concerns because taking care ofchildren, obviously, is everyone
can understand the importance ofthat.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
I guess my thought, and of course, this is open for
everybody's opinion, everybody'schoice.
But once you get into getting toknow your therapist, getting to
know everything that's going on,Maybe you could be open with
your significant other, yourfamily about the stuff you
(16:12):
learn.
Or even bring your significantother into a session or two.
So you guys can learn everythingtogether.
So that is completely up to you.
Everybody, they have differentopinions about that.
But I think that way they woulddefinitely be behind you and
(16:34):
trusting you.
It would be a lot easier athome.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Yeah, I think both people having access to the same
information would most likelycreate more unity between a
couple.
And so, yeah, a psychoeducationsession with you and your
partner going to your therapistwould help.
alleviate maybe some of yourpartner's fears about your
depression.
(16:59):
I think that could be hugelyhelpful, as well as the
therapist could help guide thepartner on ways to support you
while you're experiencingpostpartum depression.
Exactly.
I wanted to say, like, when youalluded to this before we jumped
on the call, that postpartumdepression impacts the whole
family.
(17:19):
or even just perinatal mentalhealth disorders impact the
whole family.
So the whole family, especiallythe adults involved, obviously
it's different for an infant.
The whole family should beinvolved as part of the
solution, right?
So going back to your suggestionof bringing the partner in, it
could be really helpful to getmarriage and family therapy
(17:41):
during the postnatal timebecause oftentimes, As people
know, Courtney referenced,you're usually sleep deprived in
early days of postpartum.
And when people are sleepdeprived, they're usually more
emotional and they usually havemore intense experiences because
they're not getting access toproper sleep, which usually
(18:04):
helps them restore and relax.
And so conflict often arises incouples during postpartum,
whether the client haspostpartum depression or not.
or whether the woman or thebirthing person has postpartum
depression or not, it could be areally valuable tool to get
couples counseling in thepostnatal time in order to help
(18:27):
navigate that huge transition.
Most couples go from being acouple and just being couple,
couple, couple, couple, and thensuddenly they have a child and
now they need to figure out thiswhole new way of relating to
each other because now there'sthis whole other human being a
part of the dynamic.
It's not just the two of youanymore.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
That is very true.
And I think the person goingthrough postpartum depression,
it's also harder to connect,communicate at the time.
So with family counseling, ithelps them be able to
communicate easier, have themfeel like in a professional way,
help the communication feel likethey're being heard.
(19:07):
And the same for the significantother.
and they would even be able totry things to help everyone
think, okay, maybe we can takecare of the kid this time, you
can do it this time, and eventry to spend certain times every
day together.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
I think that's a really good point, making an
effort to connect with peopleeach other because I think
sometimes there's a lot ofimportance trusted upon
connecting with a child and yeahthat is very valuable and the
two of you are still a couple soreconnecting in that way can go
back to that support factor thatCourtney mentioned.
(19:44):
I also wanted to highlight justbecause I thought this is really
interesting in my learning aboutperinatal mental health and this
might be interesting to youCourtney if you didn't already
know this is that Postpartumdepression can also impact
fathers.
And 10 to 15% of fathers evenexperience postpartum depression
(20:06):
because they're oftentimesfeeling like, I don't know how
to do this.
I'm incompetent.
I don't know how to be a dad.
I'm just now in this new role.
Where is my identity at?
Who am I now in thisrelationship with my partner now
that this child is here?
So, yeah, I think...
going back to the importance offamily and couple therapy.
(20:27):
It's not just the mom that'sgoing through a change.
It's also the father.
So there's such a value, Ithink, in really being a team
and working together.
Obviously, the incidences offathers having postpartum
depression is less than birthingpeople slash mothers.
But I just wanted to point thatout because I thought that was
really fascinating when I waslearning about postpartum
(20:47):
depression is that men can alsoexperience it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
That's awesome, Stephanie, that you're Able to
say that.
And it might be less, but Iwouldn't think, I mean, I don't
know if this is right to say,but I don't know if it's any
less difficult.
I always say it's in a differentway.
I mean, because the women arecarrying the baby, but the guys
(21:11):
are having to go through, or Ishould say the significant other
is having to go through thedifficulties just as much as the
mom is.
Yeah.
The change in themselves.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:22):
Yeah, women are definitely experiencing more
hormonal changes.
Men are experiencing similarchanges when it comes to roles
and responsibilities andidentity and who am I now?
Am I good enough?
All of those concerns thatusually present themselves with
depression.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
Yeah.
That's very interesting.
When was that figured out?
When
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
did they begin doing research on that?
Yeah.
So there's a...
whole organization calledUnityPoint Health that has done
some research on this.
And yeah, they have a websitethat goes to what are the risk
factors?
What are the common symptoms ofhow postpartum depression shows
(22:08):
up differently in men comparedto women?
So women usually have peaksymptoms around two to three
months, while usually men havemore postpartum depression
closer to the year mark of thechild and men tend to show more
anger and risk-taking behaviorswhen they're experiencing
(22:28):
postpartum depression comparedto women tend to display more
hopelessness feelings of loss ofinterest guilt and crying so it
even shows that differentlywhich I think is really
interesting as far as the waythat people experience
depression differently
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
that is very true it's never the same for anybody
This is definitely somethingwe'll have to let everybody
know.
Yeah, hopefully people that arelistening to this podcast will
share with other people.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
and I think it's important for Farrahquist to
know that mom's going through alot and so is partner.
And then, therefore, therelationship is going through a
lot.
Just kind of going back to theimportance of couples counseling
in postpartum.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
Definitely.
I did want to say something toback up a little bit from what I
was saying that it's difficultsometimes for the mom to really
connect with the baby when she'sgoing through it.
All that I want to say is thatall you need to do is hold that
baby.
I know it's difficult for you,but the baby is feeling that and
(23:33):
it's still getting attached toyou.
So as long as you're not goingthrough postpartum psychosis and
thinking of hurting the baby,then it's perfectly fine what
you're doing.
Even after you talk to atherapist and stuff, it may even
help you once you find ways tohandle it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Yeah, I think it's important to remember there's
something called mirror neurons.
And if you're experiencingdifficulties attaching to the
child, the child's only desireis to attach with you as the
parent.
And so it's important toremember that sometimes there is
(24:15):
this sense of, I don't want tohold the baby.
I'm scared.
I'm nervous.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm a failure.
I don't know how to do this as amother.
And I would encourage you toremember that even though it's
difficult, there is a strongcorrelation between avoiding a
feeling or avoiding a problemand how long it lasts compared
(24:37):
to trying to approach theproblem and face your fears.
When this avoidance comes up,whether it's in this depression
or for another reason, we reallyfind ourselves as humans
struggling.
What's a good word?
Like reestablishing our fearsover and over again.
Oh, look, I'm not a good mother.
That's why I'm not holding mybaby.
(24:58):
Therefore, I'm a failure.
Where if you continue to avoidthose beliefs and those thoughts
will become stronger andstronger.
Where if you potentially employwhat's called opposite action of
DBT, where you approach thesituation, even when you want to
avoid it.
you could find yourself oh lookI can actually hold the baby and
(25:21):
I can actually help the baby andI can actually do these things
that I was afraid that I wasn'tgoing to be able to do so it's a
little bit of reverse psychologyalmost on yourself like oh I'm
terrified of doing this thingand therefore your brain's like
avoid avoid but what is actuallygoing to be helpful to overcome
(25:42):
that is to approach thesituation and do your best to
not avoid something that ishelpful.
And again, those mirror neuronsthat exist between you and your
baby will eventually help sootheand regulate both of your
nervous systems to help formthat attachment.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
That's exactly what, yeah, that's perfect.
I know a lot of people They haveto do stuff slowly.
So I'm trying to think if thiswould be a good time to maybe if
they just have to like alwayswant that baby in the crib,
maybe do it a little more eachday when that fear comes up
(26:26):
instead of automatically puttingthe baby down.
Just try and hold the baby for acouple minutes longer than the
day before and congratulateyourself every time they notice
that.
Yeah.
Don't blame themselves ifthey're not able to handle it
that day because everybody'sable to make mistakes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:47):
Yeah, this is a great time to ask for support
from your partner.
Maybe your partner has moreconfidence in their ability to
do a task, whether it's hold thebaby or feed the baby or
whatever the task might be.
Maybe they do it and then theywalk you through how to do it
and then maybe they watch you doit.
(27:07):
There can be a lot of ways totitrate or slowly introduce you
to an experience that you'reafraid of.
It's all about getting support.
Again, something a therapistcould even walk you through.
Maybe it's about the objectiveis you want to be close to your
baby and be attached to yourbaby.
And part of that is holding yourbaby.
(27:28):
So maybe day one, Courtney saidyou hold your baby for five
minutes more than you did theday before.
And then maybe the next day youhold your baby for 10 minutes
more.
And so...
Yeah, I guess going back to thisidea that seeking therapy during
this time is really helpfulbecause there's so many things,
unfortunately, that are so brandnew that you might find yourself
(27:51):
in this fetus mindset, whichthen prolongs the depression.
SPEAKER_01 (27:54):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think every time you makea step closer, it'll help it.
I think if you...
This help works for me withany...
form of depression if you viewit as like a monster I also do
this with the kids that I workwith view it as a monster every
(28:15):
time you're feeling thedepression kick on think okay is
the monster bigger than me rightnow or am I bigger than the
monster what color is thatmonster so when you feel it it's
like one object and you have aneasier way of thinking okay What
(28:36):
do I need to do?
How hard is it going to be forme to overcome this monster?
What else do I need to do to betaller than this monster?
Instead of feeling it all overyour body and not knowing what
it is, not knowing how toovercome it or what to do.
And then every day as you dostuff, take a step back and
(28:56):
think, okay, how big is thismonster right now?
How close am I to being tallerthan it?
So think of things like that.
And even if it's always there,one of these days you'll be able
to be taller than it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:11):
Yeah, I like that imagery of removing that I am
depression or I am the monsterto, oh no, this monster is
separate from me and I canfunction knowing the monster
exists, but it still has itsplace and it's going to change.
And I'm going to change in therelationship rather than feeling
like you've over-identified withthe monster.
(29:31):
I really like that, Courtney.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Exactly, because if you start feeling like you're no
longer depressed, you may becomewondering who you are and
needing to have it back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:43):
Yeah, I think you're kind of speaking to this idea
that now you've created thisrelationship with your
depression and think that itneeds to be there because it's a
part of you.
Somehow in that process ofbelieving that your depression
needs to be a part of you, youover-identify it.
with it and then you becomedepressed again, whereas you
separate it from yourself.
(30:04):
You can have a differentexperience with it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
I really like that idea of a monster.
I was kind of picturing Scullyfrom Monsters, Inc., like a big
blue and purple monster.
And if I envisioned it that way,too, it made it less scary.
Because like, he's scared ofScully from Monsters, Inc.
It's just like a cute, cuddly,furry monster.
SPEAKER_01 (30:27):
Yeah, or the cookie monster from Sesame Street.
Yeah, that's a good one too.
Yeah, I'm going to have to askthe kids that I work with to
think of it like that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
Yeah, it kind of makes it a little more
lighthearted too.
Maybe turn it on its head alittle bit rather than a scary
monster.
As a newer mom, I've beenwatching a lot of Sesame Street
and it's making me think abouthow even Elmo technically
considers himself a monster.
Like all of the characters tosome extent.
I think that look like Elmo orCookie Monster are technically
(31:03):
monsters.
Who's afraid of Elmo?
Elmo is everyone's best friend.
SPEAKER_01 (31:10):
Yeah, you look so happy.
Who would be scared of it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
Yes.
But anyways, we're getting offthe topic.
So...
Yeah.
Is there any other things thatyou think the listener should
know about postpartum depressionor potential resources that they
should tap into to help themwith their postpartum
depression?
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
I do want to say that definitely besides 988,
definitely talk to theirtherapist about it and or talk
to their OBGYN.
about referrals or other thingsthat could help them.
Because I know, depending on howhigh it is, some might need
(31:53):
medication.
So they can definitely talk tosomebody about it.
Always be open with how you'refeeling instead of just
wondering.
So definitely look into that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:06):
Yeah, I think it's an important piece to mention is
that sometimes depression is...
so heavy that you might needmedication support.
And that's definitely somethingthat a physician can help assess
with you.
Yeah.
Last resource that I wanted togive only because I really like
this organization is PostpartumSupport International.
(32:27):
We're based out of Oregon andthey have a lot of free groups
that women can join.
So I definitely recommend goingto psi.org, I believe.
Great organization and that cansupport women in finding
support.
Or it's postpartum.net.
Sorry, that's what their websiteis.
(32:48):
Anyways, all of that informationwill be in the show notes.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday, Courtney.
Courtney's information will alsobe in the show notes if you want
to work with her as a therapist.
She works at Well-MindedCounseling.
So yeah, thank you so much foreveryone tuning in.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
(33:11):
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears.
If you follow us or subscribe orleave a comment or review,
that'd be greatly helpful forother people to find us and also
just for me to get somefeedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
(33:32):
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open Thank you somuch.
(34:06):
So you can be in the know withall the things that are
happening in the Redefining Uscommunity.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore
sexuality, identity, motherhood,and mental health to help women
thrive authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
Today we have a guest with us,Courtney Miller, who is a
(00:22):
therapist on the Well-Mindedteam.
That's the practice that I ownin Broomfield, Colorado.
Courtney is a newer mom, and sheworks with children and elders
to overcome difficulties thatlife may bring.
She has experience working withgroups, families, couples, and
(00:43):
individuals, and has experiencein working with eating
disorders, bullying issues,depression, anxiety, domestic
violence, divorce, substanceabuse, and sexual abuse, among
other concerns that people maybe facing.
And I'm really excited for youto listen to this conversation
that we have about postpartumdepression and all of the
(01:06):
intricacies of postpartum mentalhealth concerns because they are
diverse.
But today we're focusingprimarily on postpartum and how
it's different from other mentalhealth issues that can develop
in postpartum.
I hope you have a great listenand welcome feedback.
(01:26):
If anyone has any furtherquestions about this topic, be
happy to do other episodes thatare in the same vein.
So let's get into it today.
(01:57):
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie CantorO'Hara.
I'm a licensed professionalcounselor, and I have with me
today Courtney Miller, who'salso a licensed professional
counselor in Colorado.
So welcome, Courtney.
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
Hey, I'm Courtney Miller.
I'm a licensed therapist.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
So we're here to talk about postpartum depression
and potentially other postpartummental health concerns.
So let's just kind of dive rightin.
A lot of people have heard ofbaby blues and postpartum
depression, and I was hoping youcan share with the listeners
what are the differences?
(02:36):
How does someone know whenthey're experiencing one thing
rather than the other?
Of
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
course.
So everyone knows, or at least agood portion of people know,
that right after they have ababy, they go home.
It's exhausting because you'reBody has completely changed.
You're getting hardly any sleep.
So for the first couple of days,you might be crying because of
exhaustion.
(03:02):
But then after a couple of days,it slowly wears off.
Postpartum depression issomething that will continue on.
And so if it continues on formore than a couple of days,
that's the first sign.
If you are not finding anyenjoyment, if you're not feeling
like you're connecting, With thebaby, which usually it sounds
(03:26):
harder than it actually is,you'll see that baby smile or
wink at you.
And if you're thinking, okay,why am I not actually enjoying
this?
How am I not experiencing this?
That is also a sign.
And if you feel like nobody elseis getting this, that's
understandable.
(03:47):
But I just want to let everyoneknow that there are people out
there that you can talk to.
There are group, part groups.
There's also therapies for this.
One of the best is cognitivebehavioral therapy where you are
taught to challenge thesethoughts and realize your
(04:08):
strength and helping get overthat, realizing what you need to
do to believe in yourself again.
Also, one of the benefits is torelax, slowly start gaining your
strength back.
And another big sign is that ifyou are feeling where you are
wanting to hurt yourself, a lotof people feel that postpartum
(04:32):
depression is where you arefeeling that wanting to harm the
baby, which, yes, it can.
But a lot of people don'trealize that one of the biggest
symptoms of it is wanting tohurt you.
So I wanted to really focus onthat state that that is you can
reach out to a therapist.
(04:52):
You can also reach out to 988and gasp with them about it.
They will understand.
They will walk you through it.
They will help you find ways.
One of the best is to relax, tofind social support, which if
you can think of it off the topof your head, as soon as you
(05:13):
start being at home with thatbaby, that is one of the best.
Is it like your significantother, friends?
family anything and then maybeyou can work something for them
to come and take care of thatbaby throughout the day so that
way you can slowly get some timefor yourself slowly be able to
(05:33):
start eating healthy again beingable to walk outside and you
will be able to feel if that isstarting to go down you're
feeling starting to go down andyou're able to enjoy your life
again If you're able to actuallyfeel like you're connecting with
that baby.
If you're able to communicatewith your significant other.
(05:55):
And when you look in the mirror,remind yourself that you are not
in the wrong.
Tell yourself something positiveabout yourself every day.
That you brought this baby in.
And that you are trying to getthrough this.
Tell yourself something that youlove about yourself.
Something positive.
And at the end of the day,trying to think of one positive
(06:18):
thing that you got through.
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
Young, I was going to say one of the biggest
protective factors, which arekind of highlighting here,
Courtney, for people to recoverfrom postpartum depression is
this feeling that you believe inyourself, this what's called
self-efficacy.
But basically, the protectivefactor is believing that you can
(06:40):
recover and believing that youcan do the job of being the
baby's parent.
Usually having that internalstrength and believing in
yourself is one of the bestprotective factors for
postpartum depression and helpsmove people to recovery after
experiencing it.
(07:00):
Another thing that I wanted totouch on, you mentioned the 988
number.
The great thing about that arethose people are available 24-7.
So even if you have a therapist,you probably can't call them at
2 a.m.
during a A night waking.
But if you needed to talk tosomeone right then and there,
988 is available 24-7.
(07:21):
So just wanted to state that forpeople who maybe are not
familiar with 988.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah, that is one of the best things because those
babies do cry and wake you up atall times.
But at night,
SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
yeah.
And I feel like most people tendto have their darkest thoughts
about...
suicidal thoughts or thoughtsabout harming the baby late at
night when they're alone.
And so having a resource to tapinto during those harder times
is really important if you'restruggling from postpartum
depression.
SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Exactly.
I did want to cover on whenyou're feeling like you're able
to get back out there, startworking, this may still follow
you.
It might be a lot easier but itmight still follow you work may
be very difficult but i want youto really focus on you and let
(08:16):
you know that you are stillgetting through it that work
doesn't really understand whatyou are doing maybe if you have
to communicate with them see ifyou can come up with a plan with
your therapist about going inthere slower because when you're
getting through this it's Thehardest time is always when you
(08:38):
find out that you have it andyou find out what you're going
through.
Once you start working up, startclimbing up, it starts getting a
little easier.
You start noticing the changes.
You start noticing that you'vegot grasp on everything, that
these people are behind you.
And even the people at work willbe behind you if you just let
(08:59):
them know that you might need alittle bit of help.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Yeah, I think asking for help is definitely really
important, not just from atherapist, but also maybe your
co-workers or your boss.
And hopefully it'll beunderstanding, but I think
giving them context of why youmight be showing up to work not
as your best self could behelpful in some cases.
(09:24):
And if you don't feel like it'sa safe place to bring it up,
hopefully you have an HRdepartment that can help you
navigate the situation.
I think another really importantthing to recognize about
postpartum depression is if itUnfortunately, the highest risk
(09:56):
of maternal suicide is between 8and 10 months because they
believe, quote unquote, thatthey should feel better by now,
even if they got diagnosed withpostpartum depression earlier
on.
And so this idea of I'm stillnot better happens.
tends to lead to people feelingmore suicidal.
(10:18):
So I think it's important toname that so people continue to
go to therapy and do cognitivebehavioral therapy and continue
to reach out to their supportsbecause it may take longer than
you want to feel better whenyou're experiencing depression.
Depression is one of thosemental concerns that can linger.
And so giving yourself grace isreally important.
(10:41):
because it may not just be like,oh, I've started seeing a
therapist.
I feel better now.
You know, it's some work.
So coming to therapy weeklywould probably be really
beneficial for a person in thisposition.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
Stephanie, I like how you said that, how you were
talking about how depression cantake a long time.
I highly suggest that peoplesuffering from this focus more
on the word depression, notnecessarily on postpartum,
because when people hearpostpartum, It's like, okay,
(11:12):
it's after you have a baby.
A couple of months after, Ishould be fine.
And they don't even see the worddepression or know what that
word means.
But depression can last foryears or it could just last for
a couple months.
Every person is different.
It depends on how you work withthem.
(11:32):
If you ignore it, it could lastlonger.
It could get worse if you act onit every day.
I highly suggest that you takethe work on the homework and
skills that your therapistsuggests.
Or tell the therapist the truthand everything because
therapists will not judge you.
Those kind of things that willreally help a lot and help you
(11:57):
get control of it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Yeah, I think what you just kind of highlighted is
really important.
The more open that you can be intherapy, the better.
Unfortunately, there is a lot ofstigma around mental health, not
just specifically postpartum,but I think it's exacerbated
sometimes in postpartum becausea lot of women have this fear
that if I share that I want tohurt myself or if I share that
(12:20):
I'm really depressed and havinga hard time functioning, that
someone's going to want to takemy baby away from me or I'm not
a good mother.
And saying those things out loudcan be really triggering to
people.
are triggering to think aboutand also triggering to maybe say
to people who are notprofessionals, but therapists
who are trained in perinatalhealth will be able to identify
(12:43):
the difference between, oh, thisis a thought that I just am
feeling, not a thought that I'mgoing to act on.
and be able to differentiatethat.
And hopefully the likelihood ofsomeone wanting to take your
baby away is significantlyreduced when you're speaking to
a professional.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
I like that you brought that up, Stephanie.
One, because professionals knowthe difference.
They know what is a sign thatthey need to take the baby away.
And they know what thedifference is that people are
just thinking differently.
But I also wanted to bring uphow society views this, how
(13:26):
society thinks of postpartumdepression.
Because most of the time thesewomen are hurting themselves or
wanting to hurt themselves, notthat baby.
They're wanting to help the babyand that's why they're harming
themselves because they feelthat they can't.
But because of media, everybodyviews it differently.
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah.
I was going to speak to that.
Oftentimes people, when theythink of postpartum depression,
I think there's this confusionaround postpartum psychosis and
postpartum depression.
Sometimes when people experiencepostpartum psychosis, which is
more delusions and hearing ofvoices or believing that they're
(14:09):
getting commands, that leads toharming a child.
And that is an emergentsituation that you definitely
need to get help with, becauseif you're feeling those things
and thinking those things, youshould get help in order to
prevent that from happening.
But I think in mass media,there's confusion between
postpartum depression and whatdepression looks like compared
(14:31):
to postpartum psychosis.
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Yes, exactly.
And
SPEAKER_02 (14:35):
being able to know the difference, again, is
something a professional canhelp you decipher.
And most people...
They're experiencing postpartumdepression.
I believe it's such a smallnumber.
I actually think I have it herethat outlines how many people
experience postpartum psychosis.
It's one out of a thousandwomen.
(14:56):
So that's a pretty small numberwhere I believe the percentage
of women who experiencepostpartum depression is one out
of five women.
So the likelihood of psychosisis much smaller, right?
If you would just look at thenumbers.
(15:16):
So I just wanted to say that Ithink media can confuse those
two.
Definitely.
And
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I'm glad you put that up because that confuses
everybody.
They automatically think thatsomeone's got that if someone is
showing that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
I think
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
there's a lot of alarmists.
That happens because everyone,of course, wants the best for
the child.
And there can be heightenedanxiety around those types of
concerns because taking care ofchildren, obviously, is everyone
can understand the importance ofthat.
SPEAKER_01 (15:50):
I guess my thought, and of course, this is open for
everybody's opinion, everybody'schoice.
But once you get into getting toknow your therapist, getting to
know everything that's going on,Maybe you could be open with
your significant other, yourfamily about the stuff you
(16:12):
learn.
Or even bring your significantother into a session or two.
So you guys can learn everythingtogether.
So that is completely up to you.
Everybody, they have differentopinions about that.
But I think that way they woulddefinitely be behind you and
(16:34):
trusting you.
It would be a lot easier athome.
SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Yeah, I think both people having access to the same
information would most likelycreate more unity between a
couple.
And so, yeah, a psychoeducationsession with you and your
partner going to your therapistwould help.
alleviate maybe some of yourpartner's fears about your
depression.
(16:59):
I think that could be hugelyhelpful, as well as the
therapist could help guide thepartner on ways to support you
while you're experiencingpostpartum depression.
Exactly.
I wanted to say, like, when youalluded to this before we jumped
on the call, that postpartumdepression impacts the whole
family.
(17:19):
or even just perinatal mentalhealth disorders impact the
whole family.
So the whole family, especiallythe adults involved, obviously
it's different for an infant.
The whole family should beinvolved as part of the
solution, right?
So going back to your suggestionof bringing the partner in, it
could be really helpful to getmarriage and family therapy
(17:41):
during the postnatal timebecause oftentimes, As people
know, Courtney referenced,you're usually sleep deprived in
early days of postpartum.
And when people are sleepdeprived, they're usually more
emotional and they usually havemore intense experiences because
they're not getting access toproper sleep, which usually
(18:04):
helps them restore and relax.
And so conflict often arises incouples during postpartum,
whether the client haspostpartum depression or not.
or whether the woman or thebirthing person has postpartum
depression or not, it could be areally valuable tool to get
couples counseling in thepostnatal time in order to help
(18:27):
navigate that huge transition.
Most couples go from being acouple and just being couple,
couple, couple, couple, and thensuddenly they have a child and
now they need to figure out thiswhole new way of relating to
each other because now there'sthis whole other human being a
part of the dynamic.
It's not just the two of youanymore.
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
That is very true.
And I think the person goingthrough postpartum depression,
it's also harder to connect,communicate at the time.
So with family counseling, ithelps them be able to
communicate easier, have themfeel like in a professional way,
help the communication feel likethey're being heard.
(19:07):
And the same for the significantother.
and they would even be able totry things to help everyone
think, okay, maybe we can takecare of the kid this time, you
can do it this time, and eventry to spend certain times every
day together.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
I think that's a really good point, making an
effort to connect with peopleeach other because I think
sometimes there's a lot ofimportance trusted upon
connecting with a child and yeahthat is very valuable and the
two of you are still a couple soreconnecting in that way can go
back to that support factor thatCourtney mentioned.
(19:44):
I also wanted to highlight justbecause I thought this is really
interesting in my learning aboutperinatal mental health and this
might be interesting to youCourtney if you didn't already
know this is that Postpartumdepression can also impact
fathers.
And 10 to 15% of fathers evenexperience postpartum depression
(20:06):
because they're oftentimesfeeling like, I don't know how
to do this.
I'm incompetent.
I don't know how to be a dad.
I'm just now in this new role.
Where is my identity at?
Who am I now in thisrelationship with my partner now
that this child is here?
So, yeah, I think...
going back to the importance offamily and couple therapy.
(20:27):
It's not just the mom that'sgoing through a change.
It's also the father.
So there's such a value, Ithink, in really being a team
and working together.
Obviously, the incidences offathers having postpartum
depression is less than birthingpeople slash mothers.
But I just wanted to point thatout because I thought that was
really fascinating when I waslearning about postpartum
(20:47):
depression is that men can alsoexperience it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
That's awesome, Stephanie, that you're Able to
say that.
And it might be less, but Iwouldn't think, I mean, I don't
know if this is right to say,but I don't know if it's any
less difficult.
I always say it's in a differentway.
I mean, because the women arecarrying the baby, but the guys
(21:11):
are having to go through, or Ishould say the significant other
is having to go through thedifficulties just as much as the
mom is.
Yeah.
The change in themselves.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:22):
Yeah, women are definitely experiencing more
hormonal changes.
Men are experiencing similarchanges when it comes to roles
and responsibilities andidentity and who am I now?
Am I good enough?
All of those concerns thatusually present themselves with
depression.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
Yeah.
That's very interesting.
When was that figured out?
When
SPEAKER_02 (21:47):
did they begin doing research on that?
Yeah.
So there's a...
whole organization calledUnityPoint Health that has done
some research on this.
And yeah, they have a websitethat goes to what are the risk
factors?
What are the common symptoms ofhow postpartum depression shows
(22:08):
up differently in men comparedto women?
So women usually have peaksymptoms around two to three
months, while usually men havemore postpartum depression
closer to the year mark of thechild and men tend to show more
anger and risk-taking behaviorswhen they're experiencing
(22:28):
postpartum depression comparedto women tend to display more
hopelessness feelings of loss ofinterest guilt and crying so it
even shows that differentlywhich I think is really
interesting as far as the waythat people experience
depression differently
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
that is very true it's never the same for anybody
This is definitely somethingwe'll have to let everybody
know.
Yeah, hopefully people that arelistening to this podcast will
share with other people.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
and I think it's important for Farrahquist to
know that mom's going through alot and so is partner.
And then, therefore, therelationship is going through a
lot.
Just kind of going back to theimportance of couples counseling
in postpartum.
SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
Definitely.
I did want to say something toback up a little bit from what I
was saying that it's difficultsometimes for the mom to really
connect with the baby when she'sgoing through it.
All that I want to say is thatall you need to do is hold that
baby.
I know it's difficult for you,but the baby is feeling that and
(23:33):
it's still getting attached toyou.
So as long as you're not goingthrough postpartum psychosis and
thinking of hurting the baby,then it's perfectly fine what
you're doing.
Even after you talk to atherapist and stuff, it may even
help you once you find ways tohandle it.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Yeah, I think it's important to remember there's
something called mirror neurons.
And if you're experiencingdifficulties attaching to the
child, the child's only desireis to attach with you as the
parent.
And so it's important toremember that sometimes there is
(24:15):
this sense of, I don't want tohold the baby.
I'm scared.
I'm nervous.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm a failure.
I don't know how to do this as amother.
And I would encourage you toremember that even though it's
difficult, there is a strongcorrelation between avoiding a
feeling or avoiding a problemand how long it lasts compared
(24:37):
to trying to approach theproblem and face your fears.
When this avoidance comes up,whether it's in this depression
or for another reason, we reallyfind ourselves as humans
struggling.
What's a good word?
Like reestablishing our fearsover and over again.
Oh, look, I'm not a good mother.
That's why I'm not holding mybaby.
(24:58):
Therefore, I'm a failure.
Where if you continue to avoidthose beliefs and those thoughts
will become stronger andstronger.
Where if you potentially employwhat's called opposite action of
DBT, where you approach thesituation, even when you want to
avoid it.
you could find yourself oh lookI can actually hold the baby and
(25:21):
I can actually help the baby andI can actually do these things
that I was afraid that I wasn'tgoing to be able to do so it's a
little bit of reverse psychologyalmost on yourself like oh I'm
terrified of doing this thingand therefore your brain's like
avoid avoid but what is actuallygoing to be helpful to overcome
(25:42):
that is to approach thesituation and do your best to
not avoid something that ishelpful.
And again, those mirror neuronsthat exist between you and your
baby will eventually help sootheand regulate both of your
nervous systems to help formthat attachment.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
That's exactly what, yeah, that's perfect.
I know a lot of people They haveto do stuff slowly.
So I'm trying to think if thiswould be a good time to maybe if
they just have to like alwayswant that baby in the crib,
maybe do it a little more eachday when that fear comes up
(26:26):
instead of automatically puttingthe baby down.
Just try and hold the baby for acouple minutes longer than the
day before and congratulateyourself every time they notice
that.
Yeah.
Don't blame themselves ifthey're not able to handle it
that day because everybody'sable to make mistakes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:47):
Yeah, this is a great time to ask for support
from your partner.
Maybe your partner has moreconfidence in their ability to
do a task, whether it's hold thebaby or feed the baby or
whatever the task might be.
Maybe they do it and then theywalk you through how to do it
and then maybe they watch you doit.
(27:07):
There can be a lot of ways totitrate or slowly introduce you
to an experience that you'reafraid of.
It's all about getting support.
Again, something a therapistcould even walk you through.
Maybe it's about the objectiveis you want to be close to your
baby and be attached to yourbaby.
And part of that is holding yourbaby.
(27:28):
So maybe day one, Courtney saidyou hold your baby for five
minutes more than you did theday before.
And then maybe the next day youhold your baby for 10 minutes
more.
And so...
Yeah, I guess going back to thisidea that seeking therapy during
this time is really helpfulbecause there's so many things,
unfortunately, that are so brandnew that you might find yourself
(27:51):
in this fetus mindset, whichthen prolongs the depression.
SPEAKER_01 (27:54):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think every time you makea step closer, it'll help it.
I think if you...
This help works for me withany...
form of depression if you viewit as like a monster I also do
this with the kids that I workwith view it as a monster every
(28:15):
time you're feeling thedepression kick on think okay is
the monster bigger than me rightnow or am I bigger than the
monster what color is thatmonster so when you feel it it's
like one object and you have aneasier way of thinking okay What
(28:36):
do I need to do?
How hard is it going to be forme to overcome this monster?
What else do I need to do to betaller than this monster?
Instead of feeling it all overyour body and not knowing what
it is, not knowing how toovercome it or what to do.
And then every day as you dostuff, take a step back and
(28:56):
think, okay, how big is thismonster right now?
How close am I to being tallerthan it?
So think of things like that.
And even if it's always there,one of these days you'll be able
to be taller than it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:11):
Yeah, I like that imagery of removing that I am
depression or I am the monsterto, oh no, this monster is
separate from me and I canfunction knowing the monster
exists, but it still has itsplace and it's going to change.
And I'm going to change in therelationship rather than feeling
like you've over-identified withthe monster.
(29:31):
I really like that, Courtney.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Exactly, because if you start feeling like you're no
longer depressed, you may becomewondering who you are and
needing to have it back.
SPEAKER_02 (29:43):
Yeah, I think you're kind of speaking to this idea
that now you've created thisrelationship with your
depression and think that itneeds to be there because it's a
part of you.
Somehow in that process ofbelieving that your depression
needs to be a part of you, youover-identify it.
with it and then you becomedepressed again, whereas you
separate it from yourself.
(30:04):
You can have a differentexperience with it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:07):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (30:08):
I really like that idea of a monster.
I was kind of picturing Scullyfrom Monsters, Inc., like a big
blue and purple monster.
And if I envisioned it that way,too, it made it less scary.
Because like, he's scared ofScully from Monsters, Inc.
It's just like a cute, cuddly,furry monster.
SPEAKER_01 (30:27):
Yeah, or the cookie monster from Sesame Street.
Yeah, that's a good one too.
Yeah, I'm going to have to askthe kids that I work with to
think of it like that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
Yeah, it kind of makes it a little more
lighthearted too.
Maybe turn it on its head alittle bit rather than a scary
monster.
As a newer mom, I've beenwatching a lot of Sesame Street
and it's making me think abouthow even Elmo technically
considers himself a monster.
Like all of the characters tosome extent.
I think that look like Elmo orCookie Monster are technically
(31:03):
monsters.
Who's afraid of Elmo?
Elmo is everyone's best friend.
SPEAKER_01 (31:10):
Yeah, you look so happy.
Who would be scared of it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
Yes.
But anyways, we're getting offthe topic.
So...
Yeah.
Is there any other things thatyou think the listener should
know about postpartum depressionor potential resources that they
should tap into to help themwith their postpartum
depression?
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
I do want to say that definitely besides 988,
definitely talk to theirtherapist about it and or talk
to their OBGYN.
about referrals or other thingsthat could help them.
Because I know, depending on howhigh it is, some might need
(31:53):
medication.
So they can definitely talk tosomebody about it.
Always be open with how you'refeeling instead of just
wondering.
So definitely look into that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:06):
Yeah, I think it's an important piece to mention is
that sometimes depression is...
so heavy that you might needmedication support.
And that's definitely somethingthat a physician can help assess
with you.
Yeah.
Last resource that I wanted togive only because I really like
this organization is PostpartumSupport International.
(32:27):
We're based out of Oregon andthey have a lot of free groups
that women can join.
So I definitely recommend goingto psi.org, I believe.
Great organization and that cansupport women in finding
support.
Or it's postpartum.net.
Sorry, that's what their websiteis.
(32:48):
Anyways, all of that informationwill be in the show notes.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday, Courtney.
Courtney's information will alsobe in the show notes if you want
to work with her as a therapist.
She works at Well-MindedCounseling.
So yeah, thank you so much foreveryone tuning in.
Thank you for tuning in toRedefining Us once again and
(33:11):
share with other people so otherpeople can continue to listen to
Redefining Us and we can getinto more listeners ears.
If you follow us or subscribe orleave a comment or review,
that'd be greatly helpful forother people to find us and also
just for me to get somefeedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
(33:32):
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open Thank you somuch.
(34:06):
So you can be in the know withall the things that are
happening in the Redefining Uscommunity.
Once again, thank you so muchfor listening and keep being
awesome.
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