October 16, 2025 • 45 mins
What if burnout isn’t just about work, but about the roles and expectations we’ve carried since childhood? In this conversation, holistic coach and critical care nurse Jenn Ohlinger joins Stephanie to share how her own health crisis forced her to rebuild her relationship with herself and rethink what it means to truly care for others.
From the hidden toll of people-pleasing and the struggle to say no, to the power of community in healing, Jenn’s story will resonate with anyone who has ever felt drained, overwhelmed, or alone. This is a conversation about boundaries, empowerment, and the small but radical ways women can reclaim their energy and their lives.
About Jenn: Jenn is a holistic coach, critical care nurse and host of Empowered Ease podcast. She specializes in burnout & women's health and empowerment. Her podcast Empowered Ease, delves into the transformative stories of healers, health practitioners, and everyday women like you, challenging the patriarchal framework through empowerment and holistic healing. The podcast highlights each woman's unique journey toward embracing their feminine gifts, trusting their body, and prioritizing their mind, body, and soul. Discover how by empowering ourselves, we can pave the way for stronger relationships and a more balanced world.
Connect with Jenn:
https://empoweredease.buzzsprout.com/, https://themoonflowercoachingcollective.com/podcast-empowered-ease/
Learn more about the Redefining Us Monthly Community - https://wellmindedcounseling.com/redefining-us-community
Please leave us a review or rating! These help get the show out to more women like you wanting to have these conversations.
Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling
I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZT9P3RB?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&bestFormat=true
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Welcome to Redefine Us, where we explore sexuality,
identity, motherhood, and mentalhealth to help women thrive
authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Today on the episode, we haveDen Ohlinger, who is an RN and
(01:12):
is a holistic coach.
She spends lots of years as acritical care nurse and has
begun a podcast in a communitycalled Empowered Ease.
She specializes in burnout andwomen's health and empowerment.
Her podcast delves into thetransformative stories of
(01:32):
healers, health practitioners,and everyday women just like you
challenging the patriarchalframework through empowerment
and holistic healing.
Really excited for you to heartoday's podcast.
I feel like she has a lot ofgreat insight on women's health
and empowerment and burnout, andit's a great listen.
(01:53):
So love to just dive right in.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie ContraO'Hara.
And today I have with me JenOlinger.
And so happy that you're ontoday, Jen.
After being on your podcast, I'mglad to have you online.
So yeah, I'd love to hear yourstory and why you decided to
(02:16):
start podcasting.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Yeah.
Well, I first of all, I'm sohappy to be here.
Thank you.
It's nice to be chatting again.
I had so much fun with you.
Yeah.
So my story.
Well, I am at by trade, like myday job is the critical care
nerd.
I've been doing that for alittle over a decade.
I recently transitioned into aleadership role, but until this
year, I've been bedside in likeevery critical care setting.
(02:40):
And that is most people know thehealthcare system is pretty
broken.
And that we're not going to fixit anytime soon.
But as a result of that, there'sjust a lot of mental health
issues with healthcare workersand nurses.
And as a result of having thatjob for so long, I burnt out
like very, very, I would say,habitual, awful burnout to the
(03:02):
point I was having like healthconsequences.
I was on like blood pressuremeds, meds for heart rate.
I had like stroke level bloodpressures.
It was just feeling like my lifewas falling apart and I couldn't
figure out why.
And I'm 41 now.
So like perimenopause startedhitting me in my early 30s,
which I didn't know that atfirst, because like we're just
learning now about how thatstuff starts in your early 30s.
(03:23):
So, ladies, if you're feelingcrazy, it's probably
perimenopause.
Like most of the things that welike say off, like, oh, you
know, blame it and we don'treally think it is.
Like now I'm learning most ofthem are.
But anyway, so nursing gotreally burnt out.
And as a result of that, Istarted kind of went more
holistic, like went back to myroots, the things that I do for
myself, and really discoveredthat this is all about healing
(03:45):
the relationship with myself andgot into coaching.
And now I coach a lot ofhealthcare women, a lot of
nurses through burnoutthemselves.
But in that, I found this hugerole of community, like what a
lot of us are lacking, or justhow impactful it can be in our
healing.
I'm also like, I have sometrauma in my past, currently
like seeing a trauma therapist.
That's a huge part of that too,like talking in community.
(04:07):
And so is like grief healing.
Like I'm, you know, from IC thatalso I think requires a
community to really fully heal.
And so I got really intopodcasting.
I love to talk because thatshould be clear here.
Talk forever.
I'm a verbal processor.
I'm really social from being anurse.
And I just have so many coachesand so many people in my world.
And I don't really, I'm notreally into like selling myself.
(04:30):
I I just wanted to like bringpeople together, show everyone
like there's all these thingsavailable.
Like healthcare, where in myeyes, one of the big broken
pieces is that we do nopreventative education anymore.
It's like teaching people how toavoid the system.
And I think this holistic, thisis where it starts, like
building the relationship withyourself, learning to listen to
(04:50):
your body.
And so my passion now is thepodcast.
I connect with other women whoare encouraging people to do
that through a lot of differentmodalities.
And I think that once we getdown to the root of it, a lot of
them are teaching the samething.
It's just what brings you in,who draws your attention.
So I try to share personalstories of how people got into
what they do, what inspiredthem.
(05:11):
And there is some crazy stuff.
Like you're like, oh my gosh,just people live through the
craziest thing.
And what a lot of hurt peoplewho've experienced grief, who've
experienced trauma.
We want to help others.
We want to help people avoidthat.
We want to help people heal.
We don't want people to sufferthe way we suffered.
And so it's just beautiful toshare the stories.
And for me, it's what keeps megoing, especially in the current
(05:32):
political climate and all thethings going on, how difficult
it is to be a woman nowadayswhen I connect with other women
like you and you came on mypodcast.
It's just so inspiring to knowthere's other people out there
that care and are really tryingto make a difference.
And yeah, so that's kind of mystory and where I'm at and what
I'm doing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Yeah, I do think a great thing about podcasting is
it really like puts you in frontof other people who have similar
like-minded goals as far as likeconnecting people and leveling
up the energy when it comes tolike women empowerment and like
kind of the solidarity of whatit's like to be a caregiver for
(06:12):
all in a lot of ways.
And I imagine, especially as acritical care nurse, you've
really been in the role of beinga caregiver to all.
How do you think that informsthe way that you show up in your
coaching or on your podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Oh my gosh, that is such a great question because I
feel like that's a lot of whatwe're all making peace with,
right?
Like we're all trying to findthis balance.
And that naturally a lot of usare caregivers, whether that's
pushed upon us by like thesocietal pressures of being a
woman.
I mean, a big part of what I saywe do is challenge the
patriarchy.
And that sounds like this reallylike, oh, battle John thing, but
(06:47):
it's a subtle, it's a subtlechallenge.
It's just allowing women to bewomen, do things on their own
time.
I mean, before we startedtalking today, we were just
talking about how like, youknow, energy shifts and how
sometimes it takes a while forpeople to get back to us.
And we allow for that.
That's the feminine embrace.
That's the challenge of thepatriarchy that I'm encouraging
is like women to find their ownway.
And for me, people pleasing,caregiving, you know, that's
(07:12):
something actually that's partof my trauma.
Like, um, not to go toopersonally into it, but you
know, at a very young age,something happened in my life
that made my first memoryactually is one of me standing
up, feeling like I had to be theprotector for everyone around
me.
And that's a role that I stillreally struggle to put down.
It's probably why I became anurse because it's what makes me
feel good enough when I takecare of people.
(07:34):
But that's also that, which ohmy God, every woman, every role
and every mother, we put otherpeople's needs before ourselves
and we will drain our battery.
We'll just drain our batterylike as a martyr to save
everyone around us, and then wehave nothing left to give.
So that's the aspect of thatthat I think comes in so big in
my coaching and in my podcast isteaching women that like it's
(07:56):
okay.
I know there's circumstanceswhere we put people first,
right?
Your babies, that's different.
But there is a lot of situationswhere it's okay to put yourself
first, and even with yourchildren, it's okay to put
yourself first and meet yourneeds, and you end up showing up
(09:03):
better in the long run.
And you're also setting anexample for them to show up for
themselves, not to put otherpeople's needs first.
And for women, our culturereally, really pressures us to
make everyone happy, be thepeople pleasers, set the tone
for everyone, fix people'semotions, read the room.
And that is a lot to put on allof us.
So we're all balancing thatweight.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Something that has come up forme recently is noticing this
resentment that I end up feelingwhen two people who are
perfectly capable of likecommunicating to each other,
attempt to communicate likethrough me.
And I'm like, I'm notparticipating in this anymore,
right?
This is a role that I'mrejecting and like, why don't
(09:47):
the two of you speak to eachother?
Well, I go do this okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
I love that you say that.
That's such a prevalent thing inhealthcare, honestly, because
people don't want to talk toeach other.
So there's so much, like, that'swhere a lot of communication
breaks down.
Uh, but so funny you say thatbecause it reminds me of this
situation with my husband that Ialways joke about.
My I feel like I tell it withclients all the time, too,
because like I my husband boughtthis pool table.
And so we the man we bought thepool table from, my husband is
(10:13):
buying the pool table, and theman we hired to move the pool
table.
All three of them are in thesame location, and I'm at work,
and they are all three textingme to communicate with each
other between this house move.
And I'm thinking, like, oh, thisis how much they're avoiding
talking to each other.
You know what I mean?
What I mean.
I and that's it was just likethe funniest thing, but I feel
(10:34):
like that happens in so manyways, subtly played out, and as
women, we just naturally pick itup.
I probably set it up.
That's probably why they're allcontacting with me because I'm
the one that's recharged.
And so now they're allcontacting me instead of con,
you know, because I will do it.
So, but I feel like we putourselves in that role a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah, I even in TV shows, I've noticed that
narrative occasionally like popup where the woman is like, I
need to stop doing this for you,right?
And I think people need to betalking about that little piece
of even dismantling the rolethat we have fallen into of like
that we can suddenly carry itall.
(11:09):
And we can help.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Yeah, we go to work nowadays and we come home and do
the whole house.
You know what I mean?
I know the younger generationsthat's changing because I work
with a lot of young nurses andthey're these male nurses,
they're like splitting housechores and stuff like that.
But I'm like, that's not reallyvery prevalent where I where I
came from.
You know, that's a struggle tofind that balance because I
don't know.
I I feel like I it's also not mypartner's fault all the time.
(11:32):
You know, it's mine and I wantto make things easy for people.
I want to take care of people.
I want and it I create that formyself sometimes where no one's
asking me to do these things.
I'm stressing myself out becauseI I'm somehow put this pressure
on myself that I need to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and acknowledging what itis like self-inflicted, I think
is a hard thing for a lot ofpeople to be honest with
themselves about.
Oh my gosh, yes, yes.
I imagine I see that a lot incoaching people through like
burnout, even right.
Like, oh yeah, you probablydon't need to take up all these
extra shifts and you probablydon't need to take on the weight
(12:08):
of what this person said to you.
And how can you like leave itthere in the room or leave it on
the table and not bring it homewith you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah, I think um one, I can't remember one of the
coaches I had, I think it waslike Micah Walker.
We were talking about, she'slike, you know, I ask people
when they come and they're likein crisis, right?
So burnt out, what is your why?
Why are you doing this?
You know what I mean?
And she and she's like, I findthat at a certain age, a lot of
people don't know anymore.
You know what I mean?
(12:36):
It there's a point where thatshifts.
You know what I mean?
We start off really driven.
I'd say like in your 20s, you'retrying to prove who you are,
find your place in the world,you know, stand alone.
This is who I am.
And as we get older, thatbecomes less and less important.
And we start valuing like peaceand things like that.
And so sometimes whatever we'redriving for, whatever we're
working for, all the it doesn'tmake as much sense anymore.
(12:57):
So it's like we're putting allthis energy out in all these
ways, and it's hard to hone thatunless we slow down and check
in.
And that's the big piece.
That's the one I thinkeveryone's trying to teach
everyone else is slow down,check in, listen to what's
really going on.
But it's so hard.
And I describe it almost likethis we're all on our tiptoes,
you know, trying to geteverything done, tilting
(13:18):
forward, almost falling, butwe're all like riding that line,
trying to get as much done as wecan.
And we're skipping out some ofthe stuff really, and I'm guilty
of it too.
I'm not like here preaching,like, oh, I take care of myself
so well every day.
Because the truth is I drop theball a lot too, but I'm always
trying.
I'm a work in progress.
And things like this help remindme to stay present, to keep
doing that.
And that's the piece ofcommunity is like if we're
(13:41):
checking in, if we're havingthese honest conversations where
I'm owning that like some ofthis is my fault, then you know,
it validates their feelings ormaybe a different perspective,
or that they're not alone, orthat like, you know, you're
sometimes it feels veryisolating also to accept where
we're when we're wrong, whenwe've done, you know, like when
I find my bad, what I'm bad ator where I'm failing, like I
(14:01):
feel isolated and alone and likewhat's wrong with me.
But when I hear another womanshare that she struggles the
same, it's like okay, we'renever really alone.
Yeah, we're all struggling withsimilar things.
There's somebody who's gonnaunderstand.
And that's the big piece ofcommunity I like to push is if
you can find someone who reallyunderstands what you're going
through.
There's so much power in thatconversation.
(14:22):
Like that you don't even knowuntil you hear them say it.
Like you you can't validatethings, we can't validate things
for ourselves sometimes until wehear another person's experience
of it.
And then things just click.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
Yeah, the normalization and like
validation from others is ishuge in this sense of like, oh,
this isn't like crazy making.
This is like, you know, actuallywhat the experience is.
Other people are going throughthis too.
Cause I think you can be in aplace where you're like, Am I
making a bigger deal out of thisthan it really is?
Yeah.
(14:58):
When I've been giving eventherapy to people who are at the
brink of burnout, like, oh, Ishould be able to do this.
Like everybody goes to workevery single day and you know,
grinds.
And I'm like, yes, and is thatreally what's helpful for you
though?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah.
And you know, everybody doesstruggle sometimes.
You may not see it, but youknow, and people do take time
off, you know, so we don'talways see everything that's
going on around us either.
But yeah, yeah, this is a commonstruggle.
I feel like it's more prevalenteverywhere.
And the traditional sense of theword burnout is like
work-related.
And anybody who works in itknows that's not true.
It's personal, you know.
You know, I think the number onething that the first people that
(15:38):
will burn out in a group arepeople that are neurodivergent,
so people on the spectrum,people who are ADHD.
And if you're a woman inperimenopause, then your ADHD is
probably going crazy.
And so you're burning out easierbecause you're spending so much
more time managing that becauseyour hormones are all over the
place.
And there's just a lot offactors at play in being a woman
in the world today.
I mean, being a person in theworld today, I specialize in
(15:59):
women, so I say that.
And I don't want to just creditmen in any way because they have
their own struggles.
But my thing is women, so Ispeak directly to men.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious when people areneurodivergent, because just
because you mentioned that, whatare the signs of burnout similar
to maybe someone who doesn'tidentify as neurodivergent?
Or is the onset just quicker?
I was hoping maybe speak to thata little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Yeah, the onset is quicker.
I mean, they've studied they'llbe the first in a group because
they already carry the stress ofmasking for the most part and
dealing with the days.
And what they'll start havingtrouble um like with tick, with
uh what do you call that?
Like um executive functioning,things like that, brain fog,
things like that will startemerging in them before other
people on average, just becausethey're already, they already
(16:44):
have that added pressure.
So, like a lot of other thingscontribute to birdhouse, people
that have a lot of things goingon, think of like women, we're
juggling many roles.
So if you're juggling a lot ofroles.
Also, if you have family stuffgoing on, like a lot of my
clients, we're talking aboutwork here.
And the real issue is there's aboundary that needs to be held
in their personal life with withit's usually family, but it's
not always family.
But you know what I mean.
(17:04):
We all will family things comeup.
We we feel obligated or the needto take on sometimes more than
is fair, sometimes not,sometimes we're not comfortable
asking for help.
So, really, it's a lot of likejust assessing the whole picture
of where we're at.
A lot of it is personal things,contributing to an already
stressful work life and lifethat you have.
So and neurodiverge is just onemore thing on the puzzle that
(17:27):
makes it harder.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah.
I mean, I would add that likemost of the people that I've
worked with too like don't evenjust like giving the answer no
to people, and like it can bethat simple.
And I sometimes wonder tomyself, is there this other
narrative that goes around intheir brain?
And sometimes we explore thatand other people are really not
(17:51):
wanting to, but like this ideaof like, if you say no, does
that make you a bad person?
If you say no, does that makeyou weak?
You know, if that if you say no,does that mean that you're a bad
friend?
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
Like or people won't like you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
Yeah, or you'll never get asked another time
again, and you won't have theopportunity to say yes when you
want to say yes.
So you have to say yes when youdon't want to say yes, because
there may never be anotherchance to say yes.
I'm like, okay, now we're reallygetting into the weeds here of
like all of this anxiety aroundsaying no.
And I think that's, you know,where really good work happens
(18:25):
for a lot of people.
And I imagine you see that inyour practice as well.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And we like, I there's a coupleof things that that we've like,
because you know, as a specificpopulation, that's a real,
that's is the issue they'rethere for or they're here with
me for.
We talk about like gentlenes atfirst because some people have
to ease into it.
We practice our nos with safepeople, we practice holding
boundaries with people that wepractice.
I'm gonna start holdingboundaries with you as a
(18:49):
practice because I know you're asafe person.
You know, like we do things likethat.
But also one thing that I love,and I actually got this from a
close friend who lost a child.
And for her, going out in publicfor the first couple of years
was awful because the questionthat women always ask each
other, how many kids do youhave?
She's like, I don't know how toanswer it.
(19:10):
Like, you know what I mean?
And I think this is a goodequation to boundaries in that
well, all we had to do was comeup with a couple phrases that
she could lock into every timeof three ways she can choose to
answer that.
And that's the same forboundaries.
So, like, what is the worstthing you're afraid this
person's gonna push back on aworst no?
And then we practice what we'dsay then.
And you know, that's a stepthat's like we ease into it
(19:32):
depending on how hard no no isfor you.
But for some people, no is acomplete sentence, and that's
really where the power's at,which is awesome if you can get
there, but it takes time, ittakes practice.
And as a woman, that's anotherthing, part of that good girl
conditioning or this likepatriarchal society that we live
in, is we're ingrained that nosh is hard for women.
And I'm not saying it's not hardfor men, but it is hard for
(19:55):
women to say no intentionally.
SPEAKER_01 (19:57):
And I think it's also punished sometimes in the
workplace.
I've seen with clients that Ihave where they like attempt to
set a boundary or they attemptto say no to something because
they're like burnt out oroverwhelmed or whatever, and
they're trying to protect theirpeace, and then they get
feedback like, well, that'sdisappointing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, people put it back on.
Well, and that's another thingthat I love to talk about family
dynamics too, which makesboundaries especially difficult.
But it can also happen in workdynamics is if you've worked a
place long enough or if you'vebeen in an environment long
enough, we've all got theseroles we're already playing.
And this is family dynamics like101.
And I know you know this.
Like, you know, the family, andeveryone knows it if you think
(20:36):
about it.
You know that family that you'rein when you're in high school,
you know, that the dynamics ofhow everyone works.
And when you go back home,somehow we shove each other back
into those roles, having thesesame like tetty little setup.
I mean, some of us grow out ofit, but you know, we know those
roles.
I think the same things canhappen in work environments too.
People have learned to rely onyou being that person.
And so that for some people whotake advantage of that no,
(20:59):
they're gonna push back.
And that's another reason peopledon't want to say no, because
I'm scared to say no.
And then the people who I'mscared of the most are gonna
push back on this.
Yeah, they probably are in thebeginning.
So that's gonna be hard.
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
And then when they push back on it, there's
potentially like a threat goingback to that like good girl
identity of oh, because Idisappointed them, I'm no longer
like a good girl or like itpushed back that now like
threatens my like sense ofsafety or position or identity
and all these things,unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah, and that is such a huge inequality in the
workforce because if you thinkabout that, is just not an issue
for men in a lot of settings.
That isn't what we expect men todo.
We expect men to say, hold aboundary, expect men to speak
up.
But when a woman does it, it'sand I'm not saying everywhere, I
don't want to like sound likethis.
But the truth is it's a subtlereality.
And I mean, I work with doctorsand I work with some amazing
(21:53):
ones, but there's still subtlepower shifts and ways that we're
ingrained to take things.
And when a woman says no, itgets more pushback, or sometimes
like you're looked at as beingdifficult, or you know, you
know, the people who stand upthat are females in your work
environment are the crazydifficult ones, which I'm okay
being now at this age.
You know, I'm a nurse, I've beena long time, and a lot of us
(22:13):
call us crazy.
I don't care.
But, you know, that was beateninto me.
And that's understandably sohard.
Nobody wants to be seized asthat thing we're meant, like
we're also acting peoplepleasing, good girl
conditioning.
All of this is so ingrained,it's so difficult to overcome
because it's hardwired into usfrom little girls, even if not
by your parents, but by theculture you grew up and the
movies you see, the thingsyou're exposed to, the
classrooms you've been in, howyou see other adults.
(22:36):
You know, it's not just yourracing, it's the whole
environment.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
So yeah.
I just thought of like a sillyexample of something that
happened with my daughterrecently.
And mind you, my daughter's only22 months.
We got this note home about howshe like almost bit someone.
And I was cool to myself, wouldthey send a note home to other,
I don't know, a boy child foralmost biting somebody?
Maybe they would, maybe theywouldn't, but like it did cross
(23:01):
my mind of like, what are wetrying to do here?
It's how telling on her forsomething that she almost did.
I don't know, make it makesense, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
I know she's what not even two.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
Yeah, she's not even two, and we're we're biting her
up basically, for almost bitingsomeone.
I was like, that's not reallynecessary.
I don't really need to knowthat, like, right, but okay,
thank you.
What am I gonna do with thisinformation?
It was like an overcommunicationaround something kind of like,
yeah, all kids bite.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Right.
So yeah, they can't talk, sothey have to meet their needs
somehow.
So if they get there and they'llbite.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I guess as a parent, I'll becurious to see, especially with
this lens that I have of like,how are these things like
showing up from the system likeyou mentioned?
Because I think it's harder tosee it in ourselves, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
Oh my God, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
You might be able to even see it better like in a
friend than we can see it forourselves of like, oh, my boss
said this.
And you might, as a friend, belike, Well, you should have said
this.
And they're like, Oh, I didn'teven think of that.
Going back to this whole valueof community, really getting to
share your stories with otherpeople so they can like maybe be
a good mirror for you.
Cause sometimes when you're inyour own stuff, you don't see
(24:17):
all of the ways in which youcould stand up for yourself or
ways you could shift the storyor shift the the way that you
respond in a situation.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Oh, a hundred percent.
And that makes me think of soworking bedside, you know,
there's a lot of times where youhave to advocate for a patient's
safety.
And I work in teachinghospitals.
So there's there's times where Iknow more than the person who's
in charge telling me what to do.
And so there's times where I'vereally had to stand my ground
and ego gets involved andthere's pushback, and you know,
I've got to be stern at times,you know.
(24:45):
And I find myself in all this, Ifeel like a bitch.
I was you know what it'd be tohave like, so I'll go to my
coworkers.
I don't have, I didn't come froma medical family.
So part of my nursing journey isrealizing I have to be able to
talk to other nurses who get mystress because when I bring it
home, nobody gets it.
So part of that is I'm like,people in the room, oh my God, I
said that I sounded like such abitch, you know, like I'm
feeling guilty of even forstanding up for myself or
(25:06):
standing up for my patient fordoing my job because I had to be
very direct with this person andtell them no, and he's in an
authority position.
But like nine times out of 10,the other nurses in the room
would be like, it didn't soundbitchy at all.
You're just you're juststraightforward.
You know what I mean?
And so over time, after likegetting that feedback, it's like
I wasn't being a bitch, it's myown guilt for having to stand up
for myself.
It's like flooding my body rightnow.
I feel guilty because it was ahard thing to do.
(25:27):
And the reality is it's not, itdidn't sound that way.
It sounded that way because Ifelt like it was mean to say it,
but it wasn't mean.
So it was just an adjustmentover time.
But I feel like that's the bigpiece of like my community
there.
I can bounce that off of themand they can be like, no, you're
in the good zone.
You're doing a good job.
Keep it up.
You know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
As someone who's not a nurse, I am kind of curious
about like what your perceptionof nursing is in the hierarchy
of things, only because almostany person that I've ever talked
to who has gone into thehospital are like the nurses are
like the people who run thehospital.
The nurses are like the peoplewho actually like listen and
(26:08):
care and actually like supportyou.
And like the rest of the peopleare all just like ancillary to
the nurses.
And then when I had my baby, Ialso thought that was true
because I have never really beenhospitalized for any other
reason.
So I didn't really get thislike, I guess, firsthand
experience of what nurses arelike until then.
But yeah, not to like sing yourpraises here, but I I am kind of
(26:30):
curious of like what is anurse's perspective on the way
that hospitals work, because Ido think you have to be that
person for your patients, notjust because maybe there's now
this like reputation to do that,because I think that is a little
bit of the reputationpotentially.
So yeah, I don't know.
I'll stop talking about it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
I think that's a great question.
I think that's a great question.
I am uh I will back nurses tillthe day I die because it is not
a job where you get paid realgreat.
I mean, I know you can work thesystem nowadays, but generally
people don't go into nursingbecause they don't care.
Most people who go into nursingis because they had a family
member, they themselves have hadan illness.
Or for myself, I don't I wantedto somehow help people from
(27:10):
suffering because it's somethingI experienced for a long time
and it makes me feel good.
But I call nurses the heartbeatof healthcare.
And I think you could reallyeliminate a lot of the
positions.
You could never eliminate thenurse.
And I don't want to say thatthey over there's a hierarchy
where they in any way trumpanyone else because doctors are
essential.
And I've met some of the mostamazing doctors over the years
(27:34):
who really care.
But nurses are the ones who arethere with patients all day.
We know what's going on.
You know what I mean?
And it's literally our job to weare the last line of defense.
So everything rolls down frompharmacy, from you know, if
you've got respiratory doctors,whatever.
You're the last line before itreaches the patient.
(27:54):
And so I think nurses, we get alot of love, which is great.
It's like commonly the mosttrusted profession, which we've
earned a hundred percent.
But it also we get a lot ofslack for like, I've heard
people say, like, oh, you know,if you knew a bully in high
school, she's probably a nurse,or nurses are mean girls, or you
know what I mean?
And I see that too.
Like, you know, we're fierce,like they're, but because we we
have so much guilt andownership.
(28:16):
I mean, you spend all daythinking about the well-being
for me, a critical care of oneor two persons' lives on a
minute to minute basis.
I'm wondering how everyone ontheir systems is doing.
And as you trickle down, youjust gain more patience and less
involvement in like the the critthe specifics, but bigger
picture things that need to goon in a day.
And so it doesn't get any lessstressful or caring as you move
(28:39):
out of the ICU.
It's just the workload changes,which I would argue that med
surge is harder than I see youon some levels when it comes to
like time management.
But I I think, yeah, I'm a hugenurse advocate.
It's a hard job in healthcare.
I describe it as like an abusiveboyfriend.
It's like we a lot of us comeinto it a little broken anyway.
I really feel that way.
I'm not saying all nurses,there's some healthy ones out
(29:01):
there.
I feel like I'm a healthy onenow.
But you know, I came in tryingto prove to myself I was good
enough, you know, I like takingcare.
I could get paid more if Imanage to Costco, honestly.
So, and that's a lot lessstressful job.
But I love what I do.
It's been like the honor of mylife to do some of the things.
I've ever been to cry because Iget so emotional.
But I've had some of the bestexperiences in my life nursing.
(29:22):
And um, when things happen withpeople I love or family members,
crisis or great things, like Ihave been one of the first
calls.
I have been able to be there inhorrific situations and hear
people's pain because I have theability to do that and
departmentalize, like otherpeople don't do, or when
someone's squeamish, you know,in your mom's bedroom, I I've
(29:44):
been able to go and help myfriends take care of their
parents.
And I'm so honored by that.
But I can tell you that theweight of that, the weight of
health care, the weight of thatstress for years, it took
something from me.
And it takes something from alot of nurses.
And it's a really hard balanceto learn to take care of
yourself and exist in a systemthat's constantly taking from
(30:04):
you.
So a lot of them are, you know,struggling.
You know, but uh they they careso much, you know what I mean?
I think you just from yourexperience, I know you met at
least one that really cared, andyou know what that's like.
You know, uh if it I would giveanything for my patients,
honestly, you know, you I sitdown, I see them as people I've
been on both sides of the bedand they're in a vulnerable
(30:24):
place.
And a nurse is a special personwho sees that vulnerability and
honors it.
Not all of them are there, butI'd say that vast majority are
and if if you have one who'sbeing shitty, they're probably
having a bad day and goingthrough personal shit and still
have to come to work.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And that's why I went into leadership, honestly,
is because I want to supportthem and I learned through my
own burnout that the kind ofleadership you have, the kind of
acknowledgement for this hardwork we do, really in the long
run, is a whole is a lot of bigpieces of what people need.
So I'm took a step back frombedside.
Now I'm trying to just like loveon all of our baby nurses so
(31:00):
they know you're doing a goodjob.
It's okay.
It's a hard job.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
Cause when people are in crisis, they need someone
to blame.
You know what I mean?
Like, so sometimes we have areally beautiful experience with
families, and sometimes familiescannot wrap their head around
what is going on.
And the only control they haveto do, to do is to take it out
on the nurse.
And that's a very common thing.
And we get it, we try to rollwith it.
It's a hard job.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I oftentimes as a therapist hearpeople say to me, like, oh, I
could like never do what you do.
And hearing you say all of that,I would almost say like that to
you.
Like, I don't know if I couldever do all what you do every
day in and day out, or whatnurses do day in and day out.
It's a hard job to carry all.
(31:43):
of that like raw pain and rawemotion that people experience.
unknown (31:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Well, and I think therapy is the same way though.
You hear people's crisis, yousit with people's trauma, and
then you have to go to your owntherapist who's specialized in
therapists.
Where you can find a way tosafely like say it without
therapizing yourself.
Because I before I was a nurse,I worked in mental health for 10
years.
I worked in adolescent therapy,like I was not a therapist.
I backpacked with a troubledteam.
So I got a lot of exposure tomental health before I became a
(32:10):
nurse.
And now I'm a neuro.
I specialize in neuro.
So anything with the brain I'mobsessed with.
And I'm not by any way an experton mental health, but I do it's
so my interest.
And so yeah, I like a therapy isanother there's a lot of jobs
like that, honestly.
You know what I mean?
Doctors too we we give them alot of flack because honestly
like my biggest complaint abouthealthcare sometimes is the way
(32:32):
doctors speak to us.
But that is no way saying theyshouldn't be there.
I don't respect them or I don'twant them.
I just think they need moresupport in their journey because
they give up their 20s wherepeople learn to be social and
they go to school and they learnto save lives.
And depending on what they'redoing, that environment can be
super stressful and they'resacrificing.
And then they get out there,they roll into these nurses who
(32:53):
we're really good people.
Don't argue with us.
Like we can, you know what Imean?
Like we're really good atpeople.
So you know I'm not trying inany way to knock doctors.
I wish they had more support forhow to speak to people, how to
listen because I think that'swhat's lacking from them is a
lot of them just don't spend thetime to listen to people.
And if you did most people justneed to get it out.
You know what I mean?
Yeah it's a simple thing ofhearing people out but that's a
(33:15):
whole nother a whole nother likesoapbox I could stand on.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Yeah I had a thought and then it like left me but it
was about just like I thinkpeople in healthcare in general
and you even said it aboutdoctors we go in this field to
like not make money or be richor anything but like to truly
care about people because that'slike at the core of what I think
(33:43):
a lot of people who get intohealthcare are doing it for
because it is a broke so much ofa broken system.
Like why else would we get intolike really wanted to try to
change it from the inside out.
Yeah.
But yeah I think that can leadto a lot of burnout amongst a
lot of people I know from in myown journey I was like 2020 like
(34:04):
I got that was seven years intomy journey as a therapist and I
was like oh my gosh like I don'tknow if I can talk to another
person.
I I think I need to just likehide in the hole.
I'm gonna go work at Starbucksand like be a barista and just
chill.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Check out of this shit for a minute.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
But then like you know really looking at myself
and like who I am I just didn'tfeel like I could actually be
okay with that.
Like I am doing this for areason going back to that why.
So yeah I think like keepingthat why and having good
boundaries and coping skills andall of the things really
protected me from being likecompletely burned out.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Yeah.
So what is your community like?
Because you know I know you knowabout the importance of
community because mental healthis your thing but so what do you
do for community?
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah so I really love talking to other people who
are doing similar things that Iam doing like whether it's
through this podcast or a partof a lot of different like group
practice owner groups because itcan be very isolating there.
And I imagine you know this nowespecially being in leadership
even though you're still atherapist or even though you're
(35:13):
still a nurse now there's thisother level that you have with
people that you're working withbecause like I own my own
business and and I technicallyemploy all of these therapists.
So there's this different powerdynamic that exists which is
interesting as therapists.
And I imagine this might besimilar to the training that you
get as a nurse but we're likewe're really trained to like get
(35:35):
rid of all power dynamics.
Like no power dynamics are spentmeant to exist in the
therapeutic relationship in alot of ways I feel like that was
trained out of me of years andyears of being a therapist.
So like trying to now sit inthis role of being quote unquote
in power of my employees butdon't really want to be in power
(35:56):
of my employees all that to saybeing a part of other people or
kind of like in that same roleand in that same position helps
decrease like the isolation andlike the confusion of how to
show up in this role.
And then yeah I think there'sjust like this camaraderie that
we all have with like beingtherapists and like knowing what
(36:17):
it's like day in and day out.
Cause like you said I don't haveany other therapists in my
family.
No one else really knows whatit's like to sit down every day
and give therapy to somebody inmy personal life.
So like almost has to be othertherapists that are in my
community and other people whoare like group practice owners
(36:38):
in my community.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
Yeah I find the same thing sinceI stepped into like when I
opened my own business andstarted my own company it just
felt like a lot of people puttheir fears on you in your
circle because they care aboutyou, not because anything bad.
So finding women who are in thatsame space who get it you know
and that is right there that'sthe key to community if you like
if you're struggling withanything.
(37:01):
The key is finding people whoget your struggle who've been
through something similar andbeing able to just talk in a
space where it's safe.
They're not going to judge youjust say what you mean like you
know what I mean feel your feelswith them with a person you
trust it with who gets it who'sbeen there who's felt similarly
and that has so much power somuch power it's so freeing.
Anytime we you know thisobviously but feeling isolated
(37:23):
and alone is it's such amountain to get over when things
get hard.
And it is the minute you feelconnected it's like an you get a
piece of energy you get a littlebit of freed you know what I
mean isolation is heavy.
And so if you can break that insome way it really is like a
catalyst to move forward.
It helps you build resiliency ithelps you feel heard it actually
(37:44):
improves your physical and youremotional health like there's
like proven statistics on thatstuff as well but it's so vital
and it's not new you know we Ican get on this like patriarchy
bandwagon forever.
But since the beginning ofhumans women have like gotten
together in community I know menhave too but differently women
have come together for manydifferent reasons.
(38:05):
And I read I think it wasSapiens I'm not sure which one I
used to read a lot of like booksabout like culture and things
like that.
I want to say like sociology ifI think that's wrong.
I used to read a lot of booksabout that because it's just so
so and fascinating to me.
And they give women storytellingand gossiping and gabbing and
like hunter gatherer communitiesso much credit for the
(38:25):
advancement of the human racebecause that's where stories
came from.
That's where stories were passedalong that's where knowledge was
kept you know and we're missingthat piece nowadays.
And I think like you yourpodcast is specific to mothers
think how much knowledge ismissing from that process.
When you used to be surroundedby all the women in your family
you know they say it takes avillage it does and we don't a
(38:47):
lot I shouldn't say we don'thave that because some people do
but I think it's less and lessthat people have that village
that community to say this isnormal or that's not normal or
you know I'm here for you I'llhear you that is hard you know
like whatever it is but we're awhole it's a very isolating
culture we live in nowadaysespecially for women.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
And I wanted to say too another great thing that we
haven't really highlighted yetabout community is also like
sharing wins with other peoplethat also get how big of a deal
a win is you know another momtelling you that they were able
to like get their kid to I don'tknow be potty trained that is
(39:27):
fucking amazing.
Like what are you talking about?
But if you like tell someonewho's never had a kid or maybe
so far removed from ever maybeit's been 20 years since they
potty trained someone they mightnot think that's like a big
deal.
But like being in it withsomeone and being able to
celebrate their successes Ithink is also like a huge piece
of why it's so important to bein community and be in a village
(39:51):
because you can have otherpeople who celebrate you who
truly know how big of a deal itis that you are celebrating that
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:57):
Yes.
Yes and along with that when yousee others win subconsciously it
also shows you I can too it'spossible because they struggled
like I did and they and they hadthis win.
And so it even though it's noton the very conscious
subconsciously you're showingyourself this is possible.
You know so it builds thatresiliency that confidence to
move forward when you're able tolike hear and share like that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah yeah I think it's goingback to what you're saying like
women in general are just meantto be I think and historically
like around other people justlike lifting each other up I do
too I do too you know like Ithink you know I'm a gabber I'm
a verbal processor and I thinkthat's somewhat evolved to be
that way.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
You know what I mean?
I have been very lucky in that Ihave had very close female
friends for over 20 years.
I don't have a lot I have twoyou know what I mean it only
takes one or two honestly youdon't need like I know a lot of
people like oh big friend groupsbut I think as you get older
it's not about the size of yourcommunity is it's like the value
of that community.
You only need one person whounderstands you.
(41:00):
Well I shouldn't say that youonly need one person who
understands what you're goingthrough.
You know what I mean like what Ishare my work stuff with is not
the people I share myrelationship struggles with.
You know what I mean?
So I have people in my life thatunderstand different things.
It's not like this huge thishuge community of all my friends
that I'm always keeping incontact with and texting
(41:20):
everyone all day because peopledo that, but that's not me.
I'm not I I am like wellextrovert and introvert whatever
that weird thing of both is thatI'm not keeping a hundred
relationships going.
I'm not talking to these peopledaily you know I have a couple
people I do that with but forthe most part it's like when I'm
in crisis I'm going to thesepeople I'm reaching out to them
to talk to them to get theiradvice to see if they've gone
(41:40):
through it and they're comingback because they know the value
they're in that same spot.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
So well yeah I so I guess I what I'm hearing you say
is having relationships is apretty good indicator of being
able to prevent burning outdoing it around like being with
other people helps burn out.
SPEAKER_00 (41:58):
It's a vital piece of it it's a vital vital piece
of it I mean there's like a lotof moving parts and like I said
it's very specific to eachperson but I think you know and
some people have the communityalready you know what I mean and
they're burnt out and they'relike but if you're burnt out and
you don't have that piece thatmight be where you start you
know what I mean other people wehave strong you may have a
strong community I did and Iburnt out you know what I mean I
(42:18):
didn't have the right peoplethough so I had to learn where
to like maybe I can't say thepeople I expressed my nurse
stuff with are my best friendswho I'd share all my deepest
darkest secrets.
But I do know that whensomething happens at work that
is so awful like I can go cry tothem and they will understand it
like no one else.
You know I've had some old ladynurses just like hold my face
and hold me and be like you'reokay and you know those moments
(42:39):
mean so much to me.
I'll probably never like see theinside of her home but I love
her dearly you know what I mean?
So it's important to have thosepeople in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
No I think what you just said is important too like
it's not just about havingpeople around you it's like the
right person at the right timethat you can trust you know what
I mean because some people youknow I found people think they
have community and then we starttalking and it's like well this
person kind of throws thingsback in my face or you know
encourages this or won't youknow keeps bringing me back to
this thing that frustrates me.
It's like that's not a goodfriend then you know not saying
(43:10):
you have to get rid of thatfriend but that's all the one
you're gonna go to for all ofthis.
You're gonna go to the one thatloves you no matter what who
doesn't judge you who hears youyou know and you know who that
is the safe people you're gonnago to the safe people first.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
Well where can people find you if they want to
connect with you further allabout that.
So um my podcast is calledEmpowered Ease and it's found
anywhere podcasts are found youcan find me.
I also have a YouTube channelit's uh Jen and the moonflower
collective my website is themoonflower coaching collective
dot com which I will send youall the links but really if you
(43:44):
just find my podcast EmpoweredEase anywhere the show notes
have you links to everythingelse.
I'm on like Instagram is Jen theMoonflower Coach, Facebook,
TikTok, Substack, all that stuffand I just mainly share a lot of
the podcast cast episodes I haveamazing guests on.
So if you're looking for to findyour community or to find some
support we have conversationslike this about real things that
(44:07):
are stressing us out real likedeep issues and get to know what
inspired women to to start thispath of helping others and yeah
check it out please yeah thankyou so much for being on and
yeah everyone go check all thethings she shared it'll be in
the shows it'll be on myInstagram and all the places as
well so thank you again.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
Yeah thank you so much for having me thank you for
tuning in to redefining us onceagain and share with other
people so other people cancontinue to listen to redefining
us and we can get into morelisteners ears if you follow us
or subscribe or leave a commentor review that would be greatly
(44:49):
helpful for other people to findus and also just for me to get
some feedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to bringing onguests and talking about topics
that are unique and inspiring toeveryone so please let me know.
And this year hopefully we'refull of a lot of community
(45:12):
building a lot of publicspeaking a lot of resource
sharing so I really encourageyou to follow us on social media
at Walminded counseling onInstagram as our handle as well
as going directly to our websitelongmindedcounseling.com
backslash redefining type us soyou can be in the know with all
(45:32):
the things that are happening inthe Redefining Us community.
Once again thank you so much forlistening and keep being
awesome.
Welcome to Redefine Us, where we explore sexuality,
identity, motherhood, and mentalhealth to help women thrive
authentically.
Let's break free from roles thatlimit us and create a life where
you can truly be yourself.
Today on the episode, we haveDen Ohlinger, who is an RN and
(01:12):
is a holistic coach.
She spends lots of years as acritical care nurse and has
begun a podcast in a communitycalled Empowered Ease.
She specializes in burnout andwomen's health and empowerment.
Her podcast delves into thetransformative stories of
(01:32):
healers, health practitioners,and everyday women just like you
challenging the patriarchalframework through empowerment
and holistic healing.
Really excited for you to heartoday's podcast.
I feel like she has a lot ofgreat insight on women's health
and empowerment and burnout, andit's a great listen.
(01:53):
So love to just dive right in.
Welcome back to Redefining Us.
I'm your host, Stephanie ContraO'Hara.
And today I have with me JenOlinger.
And so happy that you're ontoday, Jen.
After being on your podcast, I'mglad to have you online.
So yeah, I'd love to hear yourstory and why you decided to
(02:16):
start podcasting.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Yeah.
Well, I first of all, I'm sohappy to be here.
Thank you.
It's nice to be chatting again.
I had so much fun with you.
Yeah.
So my story.
Well, I am at by trade, like myday job is the critical care
nerd.
I've been doing that for alittle over a decade.
I recently transitioned into aleadership role, but until this
year, I've been bedside in likeevery critical care setting.
(02:40):
And that is most people know thehealthcare system is pretty
broken.
And that we're not going to fixit anytime soon.
But as a result of that, there'sjust a lot of mental health
issues with healthcare workersand nurses.
And as a result of having thatjob for so long, I burnt out
like very, very, I would say,habitual, awful burnout to the
(03:02):
point I was having like healthconsequences.
I was on like blood pressuremeds, meds for heart rate.
I had like stroke level bloodpressures.
It was just feeling like my lifewas falling apart and I couldn't
figure out why.
And I'm 41 now.
So like perimenopause startedhitting me in my early 30s,
which I didn't know that atfirst, because like we're just
learning now about how thatstuff starts in your early 30s.
(03:23):
So, ladies, if you're feelingcrazy, it's probably
perimenopause.
Like most of the things that welike say off, like, oh, you
know, blame it and we don'treally think it is.
Like now I'm learning most ofthem are.
But anyway, so nursing gotreally burnt out.
And as a result of that, Istarted kind of went more
holistic, like went back to myroots, the things that I do for
myself, and really discoveredthat this is all about healing
(03:45):
the relationship with myself andgot into coaching.
And now I coach a lot ofhealthcare women, a lot of
nurses through burnoutthemselves.
But in that, I found this hugerole of community, like what a
lot of us are lacking, or justhow impactful it can be in our
healing.
I'm also like, I have sometrauma in my past, currently
like seeing a trauma therapist.
That's a huge part of that too,like talking in community.
(04:07):
And so is like grief healing.
Like I'm, you know, from IC thatalso I think requires a
community to really fully heal.
And so I got really intopodcasting.
I love to talk because thatshould be clear here.
Talk forever.
I'm a verbal processor.
I'm really social from being anurse.
And I just have so many coachesand so many people in my world.
And I don't really, I'm notreally into like selling myself.
(04:30):
I I just wanted to like bringpeople together, show everyone
like there's all these thingsavailable.
Like healthcare, where in myeyes, one of the big broken
pieces is that we do nopreventative education anymore.
It's like teaching people how toavoid the system.
And I think this holistic, thisis where it starts, like
building the relationship withyourself, learning to listen to
(04:50):
your body.
And so my passion now is thepodcast.
I connect with other women whoare encouraging people to do
that through a lot of differentmodalities.
And I think that once we getdown to the root of it, a lot of
them are teaching the samething.
It's just what brings you in,who draws your attention.
So I try to share personalstories of how people got into
what they do, what inspiredthem.
(05:11):
And there is some crazy stuff.
Like you're like, oh my gosh,just people live through the
craziest thing.
And what a lot of hurt peoplewho've experienced grief, who've
experienced trauma.
We want to help others.
We want to help people avoidthat.
We want to help people heal.
We don't want people to sufferthe way we suffered.
And so it's just beautiful toshare the stories.
And for me, it's what keeps megoing, especially in the current
(05:32):
political climate and all thethings going on, how difficult
it is to be a woman nowadayswhen I connect with other women
like you and you came on mypodcast.
It's just so inspiring to knowthere's other people out there
that care and are really tryingto make a difference.
And yeah, so that's kind of mystory and where I'm at and what
I'm doing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Yeah, I do think a great thing about podcasting is
it really like puts you in frontof other people who have similar
like-minded goals as far as likeconnecting people and leveling
up the energy when it comes tolike women empowerment and like
kind of the solidarity of whatit's like to be a caregiver for
(06:12):
all in a lot of ways.
And I imagine, especially as acritical care nurse, you've
really been in the role of beinga caregiver to all.
How do you think that informsthe way that you show up in your
coaching or on your podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (06:27):
Oh my gosh, that is such a great question because I
feel like that's a lot of whatwe're all making peace with,
right?
Like we're all trying to findthis balance.
And that naturally a lot of usare caregivers, whether that's
pushed upon us by like thesocietal pressures of being a
woman.
I mean, a big part of what I saywe do is challenge the
patriarchy.
And that sounds like this reallylike, oh, battle John thing, but
(06:47):
it's a subtle, it's a subtlechallenge.
It's just allowing women to bewomen, do things on their own
time.
I mean, before we startedtalking today, we were just
talking about how like, youknow, energy shifts and how
sometimes it takes a while forpeople to get back to us.
And we allow for that.
That's the feminine embrace.
That's the challenge of thepatriarchy that I'm encouraging
is like women to find their ownway.
And for me, people pleasing,caregiving, you know, that's
(07:12):
something actually that's partof my trauma.
Like, um, not to go toopersonally into it, but you
know, at a very young age,something happened in my life
that made my first memoryactually is one of me standing
up, feeling like I had to be theprotector for everyone around
me.
And that's a role that I stillreally struggle to put down.
It's probably why I became anurse because it's what makes me
feel good enough when I takecare of people.
(07:34):
But that's also that, which ohmy God, every woman, every role
and every mother, we put otherpeople's needs before ourselves
and we will drain our battery.
We'll just drain our batterylike as a martyr to save
everyone around us, and then wehave nothing left to give.
So that's the aspect of thatthat I think comes in so big in
my coaching and in my podcast isteaching women that like it's
(07:56):
okay.
I know there's circumstanceswhere we put people first,
right?
Your babies, that's different.
But there is a lot of situationswhere it's okay to put yourself
first, and even with yourchildren, it's okay to put
yourself first and meet yourneeds, and you end up showing up
(09:03):
better in the long run.
And you're also setting anexample for them to show up for
themselves, not to put otherpeople's needs first.
And for women, our culturereally, really pressures us to
make everyone happy, be thepeople pleasers, set the tone
for everyone, fix people'semotions, read the room.
And that is a lot to put on allof us.
So we're all balancing thatweight.
SPEAKER_01 (09:24):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Something that has come up forme recently is noticing this
resentment that I end up feelingwhen two people who are
perfectly capable of likecommunicating to each other,
attempt to communicate likethrough me.
And I'm like, I'm notparticipating in this anymore,
right?
This is a role that I'mrejecting and like, why don't
(09:47):
the two of you speak to eachother?
Well, I go do this okay.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
I love that you say that.
That's such a prevalent thing inhealthcare, honestly, because
people don't want to talk toeach other.
So there's so much, like, that'swhere a lot of communication
breaks down.
Uh, but so funny you say thatbecause it reminds me of this
situation with my husband that Ialways joke about.
My I feel like I tell it withclients all the time, too,
because like I my husband boughtthis pool table.
And so we the man we bought thepool table from, my husband is
(10:13):
buying the pool table, and theman we hired to move the pool
table.
All three of them are in thesame location, and I'm at work,
and they are all three textingme to communicate with each
other between this house move.
And I'm thinking, like, oh, thisis how much they're avoiding
talking to each other.
You know what I mean?
What I mean.
I and that's it was just likethe funniest thing, but I feel
(10:34):
like that happens in so manyways, subtly played out, and as
women, we just naturally pick itup.
I probably set it up.
That's probably why they're allcontacting with me because I'm
the one that's recharged.
And so now they're allcontacting me instead of con,
you know, because I will do it.
So, but I feel like we putourselves in that role a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah, I even in TV shows, I've noticed that
narrative occasionally like popup where the woman is like, I
need to stop doing this for you,right?
And I think people need to betalking about that little piece
of even dismantling the rolethat we have fallen into of like
that we can suddenly carry itall.
(11:09):
And we can help.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Yeah, we go to work nowadays and we come home and do
the whole house.
You know what I mean?
I know the younger generationsthat's changing because I work
with a lot of young nurses andthey're these male nurses,
they're like splitting housechores and stuff like that.
But I'm like, that's not reallyvery prevalent where I where I
came from.
You know, that's a struggle tofind that balance because I
don't know.
I I feel like I it's also not mypartner's fault all the time.
(11:32):
You know, it's mine and I wantto make things easy for people.
I want to take care of people.
I want and it I create that formyself sometimes where no one's
asking me to do these things.
I'm stressing myself out becauseI I'm somehow put this pressure
on myself that I need to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and acknowledging what itis like self-inflicted, I think
is a hard thing for a lot ofpeople to be honest with
themselves about.
Oh my gosh, yes, yes.
I imagine I see that a lot incoaching people through like
burnout, even right.
Like, oh yeah, you probablydon't need to take up all these
extra shifts and you probablydon't need to take on the weight
(12:08):
of what this person said to you.
And how can you like leave itthere in the room or leave it on
the table and not bring it homewith you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah, I think um one, I can't remember one of the
coaches I had, I think it waslike Micah Walker.
We were talking about, she'slike, you know, I ask people
when they come and they're likein crisis, right?
So burnt out, what is your why?
Why are you doing this?
You know what I mean?
And she and she's like, I findthat at a certain age, a lot of
people don't know anymore.
You know what I mean?
(12:36):
It there's a point where thatshifts.
You know what I mean?
We start off really driven.
I'd say like in your 20s, you'retrying to prove who you are,
find your place in the world,you know, stand alone.
This is who I am.
And as we get older, thatbecomes less and less important.
And we start valuing like peaceand things like that.
And so sometimes whatever we'redriving for, whatever we're
working for, all the it doesn'tmake as much sense anymore.
(12:57):
So it's like we're putting allthis energy out in all these
ways, and it's hard to hone thatunless we slow down and check
in.
And that's the big piece.
That's the one I thinkeveryone's trying to teach
everyone else is slow down,check in, listen to what's
really going on.
But it's so hard.
And I describe it almost likethis we're all on our tiptoes,
you know, trying to geteverything done, tilting
(13:18):
forward, almost falling, butwe're all like riding that line,
trying to get as much done as wecan.
And we're skipping out some ofthe stuff really, and I'm guilty
of it too.
I'm not like here preaching,like, oh, I take care of myself
so well every day.
Because the truth is I drop theball a lot too, but I'm always
trying.
I'm a work in progress.
And things like this help remindme to stay present, to keep
doing that.
And that's the piece ofcommunity is like if we're
(13:41):
checking in, if we're havingthese honest conversations where
I'm owning that like some ofthis is my fault, then you know,
it validates their feelings ormaybe a different perspective,
or that they're not alone, orthat like, you know, you're
sometimes it feels veryisolating also to accept where
we're when we're wrong, whenwe've done, you know, like when
I find my bad, what I'm bad ator where I'm failing, like I
(14:01):
feel isolated and alone and likewhat's wrong with me.
But when I hear another womanshare that she struggles the
same, it's like okay, we'renever really alone.
Yeah, we're all struggling withsimilar things.
There's somebody who's gonnaunderstand.
And that's the big piece ofcommunity I like to push is if
you can find someone who reallyunderstands what you're going
through.
There's so much power in thatconversation.
(14:22):
Like that you don't even knowuntil you hear them say it.
Like you you can't validatethings, we can't validate things
for ourselves sometimes until wehear another person's experience
of it.
And then things just click.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
Yeah, the normalization and like
validation from others is ishuge in this sense of like, oh,
this isn't like crazy making.
This is like, you know, actuallywhat the experience is.
Other people are going throughthis too.
Cause I think you can be in aplace where you're like, Am I
making a bigger deal out of thisthan it really is?
Yeah.
(14:58):
When I've been giving eventherapy to people who are at the
brink of burnout, like, oh, Ishould be able to do this.
Like everybody goes to workevery single day and you know,
grinds.
And I'm like, yes, and is thatreally what's helpful for you
though?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yeah.
And you know, everybody doesstruggle sometimes.
You may not see it, but youknow, and people do take time
off, you know, so we don'talways see everything that's
going on around us either.
But yeah, yeah, this is a commonstruggle.
I feel like it's more prevalenteverywhere.
And the traditional sense of theword burnout is like
work-related.
And anybody who works in itknows that's not true.
It's personal, you know.
You know, I think the number onething that the first people that
(15:38):
will burn out in a group arepeople that are neurodivergent,
so people on the spectrum,people who are ADHD.
And if you're a woman inperimenopause, then your ADHD is
probably going crazy.
And so you're burning out easierbecause you're spending so much
more time managing that becauseyour hormones are all over the
place.
And there's just a lot offactors at play in being a woman
in the world today.
I mean, being a person in theworld today, I specialize in
(15:59):
women, so I say that.
And I don't want to just creditmen in any way because they have
their own struggles.
But my thing is women, so Ispeak directly to men.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious when people areneurodivergent, because just
because you mentioned that, whatare the signs of burnout similar
to maybe someone who doesn'tidentify as neurodivergent?
Or is the onset just quicker?
I was hoping maybe speak to thata little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Yeah, the onset is quicker.
I mean, they've studied they'llbe the first in a group because
they already carry the stress ofmasking for the most part and
dealing with the days.
And what they'll start havingtrouble um like with tick, with
uh what do you call that?
Like um executive functioning,things like that, brain fog,
things like that will startemerging in them before other
people on average, just becausethey're already, they already
(16:44):
have that added pressure.
So, like a lot of other thingscontribute to birdhouse, people
that have a lot of things goingon, think of like women, we're
juggling many roles.
So if you're juggling a lot ofroles.
Also, if you have family stuffgoing on, like a lot of my
clients, we're talking aboutwork here.
And the real issue is there's aboundary that needs to be held
in their personal life with withit's usually family, but it's
not always family.
But you know what I mean.
(17:04):
We all will family things comeup.
We we feel obligated or the needto take on sometimes more than
is fair, sometimes not,sometimes we're not comfortable
asking for help.
So, really, it's a lot of likejust assessing the whole picture
of where we're at.
A lot of it is personal things,contributing to an already
stressful work life and lifethat you have.
So and neurodiverge is just onemore thing on the puzzle that
(17:27):
makes it harder.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah.
I mean, I would add that likemost of the people that I've
worked with too like don't evenjust like giving the answer no
to people, and like it can bethat simple.
And I sometimes wonder tomyself, is there this other
narrative that goes around intheir brain?
And sometimes we explore thatand other people are really not
(17:51):
wanting to, but like this ideaof like, if you say no, does
that make you a bad person?
If you say no, does that makeyou weak?
You know, if that if you say no,does that mean that you're a bad
friend?
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
Like or people won't like you.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
Yeah, or you'll never get asked another time
again, and you won't have theopportunity to say yes when you
want to say yes.
So you have to say yes when youdon't want to say yes, because
there may never be anotherchance to say yes.
I'm like, okay, now we're reallygetting into the weeds here of
like all of this anxiety aroundsaying no.
And I think that's, you know,where really good work happens
(18:25):
for a lot of people.
And I imagine you see that inyour practice as well.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Oh, for sure, for sure.
And we like, I there's a coupleof things that that we've like,
because you know, as a specificpopulation, that's a real,
that's is the issue they'rethere for or they're here with
me for.
We talk about like gentlenes atfirst because some people have
to ease into it.
We practice our nos with safepeople, we practice holding
boundaries with people that wepractice.
I'm gonna start holdingboundaries with you as a
(18:49):
practice because I know you're asafe person.
You know, like we do things likethat.
But also one thing that I love,and I actually got this from a
close friend who lost a child.
And for her, going out in publicfor the first couple of years
was awful because the questionthat women always ask each
other, how many kids do youhave?
She's like, I don't know how toanswer it.
(19:10):
Like, you know what I mean?
And I think this is a goodequation to boundaries in that
well, all we had to do was comeup with a couple phrases that
she could lock into every timeof three ways she can choose to
answer that.
And that's the same forboundaries.
So, like, what is the worstthing you're afraid this
person's gonna push back on aworst no?
And then we practice what we'dsay then.
And you know, that's a stepthat's like we ease into it
(19:32):
depending on how hard no no isfor you.
But for some people, no is acomplete sentence, and that's
really where the power's at,which is awesome if you can get
there, but it takes time, ittakes practice.
And as a woman, that's anotherthing, part of that good girl
conditioning or this likepatriarchal society that we live
in, is we're ingrained that nosh is hard for women.
And I'm not saying it's not hardfor men, but it is hard for
(19:55):
women to say no intentionally.
SPEAKER_01 (19:57):
And I think it's also punished sometimes in the
workplace.
I've seen with clients that Ihave where they like attempt to
set a boundary or they attemptto say no to something because
they're like burnt out oroverwhelmed or whatever, and
they're trying to protect theirpeace, and then they get
feedback like, well, that'sdisappointing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, people put it back on.
Well, and that's another thingthat I love to talk about family
dynamics too, which makesboundaries especially difficult.
But it can also happen in workdynamics is if you've worked a
place long enough or if you'vebeen in an environment long
enough, we've all got theseroles we're already playing.
And this is family dynamics like101.
And I know you know this.
Like, you know, the family, andeveryone knows it if you think
(20:36):
about it.
You know that family that you'rein when you're in high school,
you know, that the dynamics ofhow everyone works.
And when you go back home,somehow we shove each other back
into those roles, having thesesame like tetty little setup.
I mean, some of us grow out ofit, but you know, we know those
roles.
I think the same things canhappen in work environments too.
People have learned to rely onyou being that person.
And so that for some people whotake advantage of that no,
(20:59):
they're gonna push back.
And that's another reason peopledon't want to say no, because
I'm scared to say no.
And then the people who I'mscared of the most are gonna
push back on this.
Yeah, they probably are in thebeginning.
So that's gonna be hard.
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
And then when they push back on it, there's
potentially like a threat goingback to that like good girl
identity of oh, because Idisappointed them, I'm no longer
like a good girl or like itpushed back that now like
threatens my like sense ofsafety or position or identity
and all these things,unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah, and that is such a huge inequality in the
workforce because if you thinkabout that, is just not an issue
for men in a lot of settings.
That isn't what we expect men todo.
We expect men to say, hold aboundary, expect men to speak
up.
But when a woman does it, it'sand I'm not saying everywhere, I
don't want to like sound likethis.
But the truth is it's a subtlereality.
And I mean, I work with doctorsand I work with some amazing
(21:53):
ones, but there's still subtlepower shifts and ways that we're
ingrained to take things.
And when a woman says no, itgets more pushback, or sometimes
like you're looked at as beingdifficult, or you know, you
know, the people who stand upthat are females in your work
environment are the crazydifficult ones, which I'm okay
being now at this age.
You know, I'm a nurse, I've beena long time, and a lot of us
(22:13):
call us crazy.
I don't care.
But, you know, that was beateninto me.
And that's understandably sohard.
Nobody wants to be seized asthat thing we're meant, like
we're also acting peoplepleasing, good girl
conditioning.
All of this is so ingrained,it's so difficult to overcome
because it's hardwired into usfrom little girls, even if not
by your parents, but by theculture you grew up and the
movies you see, the thingsyou're exposed to, the
classrooms you've been in, howyou see other adults.
(22:36):
You know, it's not just yourracing, it's the whole
environment.
SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
So yeah.
I just thought of like a sillyexample of something that
happened with my daughterrecently.
And mind you, my daughter's only22 months.
We got this note home about howshe like almost bit someone.
And I was cool to myself, wouldthey send a note home to other,
I don't know, a boy child foralmost biting somebody?
Maybe they would, maybe theywouldn't, but like it did cross
(23:01):
my mind of like, what are wetrying to do here?
It's how telling on her forsomething that she almost did.
I don't know, make it makesense, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:10):
I know she's what not even two.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
Yeah, she's not even two, and we're we're biting her
up basically, for almost bitingsomeone.
I was like, that's not reallynecessary.
I don't really need to knowthat, like, right, but okay,
thank you.
What am I gonna do with thisinformation?
It was like an overcommunicationaround something kind of like,
yeah, all kids bite.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Right.
So yeah, they can't talk, sothey have to meet their needs
somehow.
So if they get there and they'llbite.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I guess as a parent, I'll becurious to see, especially with
this lens that I have of like,how are these things like
showing up from the system likeyou mentioned?
Because I think it's harder tosee it in ourselves, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:53):
Oh my God, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
You might be able to even see it better like in a
friend than we can see it forourselves of like, oh, my boss
said this.
And you might, as a friend, belike, Well, you should have said
this.
And they're like, Oh, I didn'teven think of that.
Going back to this whole valueof community, really getting to
share your stories with otherpeople so they can like maybe be
a good mirror for you.
Cause sometimes when you're inyour own stuff, you don't see
(24:17):
all of the ways in which youcould stand up for yourself or
ways you could shift the storyor shift the the way that you
respond in a situation.
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Oh, a hundred percent.
And that makes me think of soworking bedside, you know,
there's a lot of times where youhave to advocate for a patient's
safety.
And I work in teachinghospitals.
So there's there's times where Iknow more than the person who's
in charge telling me what to do.
And so there's times where I'vereally had to stand my ground
and ego gets involved andthere's pushback, and you know,
I've got to be stern at times,you know.
(24:45):
And I find myself in all this, Ifeel like a bitch.
I was you know what it'd be tohave like, so I'll go to my
coworkers.
I don't have, I didn't come froma medical family.
So part of my nursing journey isrealizing I have to be able to
talk to other nurses who get mystress because when I bring it
home, nobody gets it.
So part of that is I'm like,people in the room, oh my God, I
said that I sounded like such abitch, you know, like I'm
feeling guilty of even forstanding up for myself or
(25:06):
standing up for my patient fordoing my job because I had to be
very direct with this person andtell them no, and he's in an
authority position.
But like nine times out of 10,the other nurses in the room
would be like, it didn't soundbitchy at all.
You're just you're juststraightforward.
You know what I mean?
And so over time, after likegetting that feedback, it's like
I wasn't being a bitch, it's myown guilt for having to stand up
for myself.
It's like flooding my body rightnow.
I feel guilty because it was ahard thing to do.
(25:27):
And the reality is it's not, itdidn't sound that way.
It sounded that way because Ifelt like it was mean to say it,
but it wasn't mean.
So it was just an adjustmentover time.
But I feel like that's the bigpiece of like my community
there.
I can bounce that off of themand they can be like, no, you're
in the good zone.
You're doing a good job.
Keep it up.
You know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
As someone who's not a nurse, I am kind of curious
about like what your perceptionof nursing is in the hierarchy
of things, only because almostany person that I've ever talked
to who has gone into thehospital are like the nurses are
like the people who run thehospital.
The nurses are like the peoplewho actually like listen and
(26:08):
care and actually like supportyou.
And like the rest of the peopleare all just like ancillary to
the nurses.
And then when I had my baby, Ialso thought that was true
because I have never really beenhospitalized for any other
reason.
So I didn't really get thislike, I guess, firsthand
experience of what nurses arelike until then.
But yeah, not to like sing yourpraises here, but I I am kind of
(26:30):
curious of like what is anurse's perspective on the way
that hospitals work, because Ido think you have to be that
person for your patients, notjust because maybe there's now
this like reputation to do that,because I think that is a little
bit of the reputationpotentially.
So yeah, I don't know.
I'll stop talking about it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:48):
I think that's a great question.
I think that's a great question.
I am uh I will back nurses tillthe day I die because it is not
a job where you get paid realgreat.
I mean, I know you can work thesystem nowadays, but generally
people don't go into nursingbecause they don't care.
Most people who go into nursingis because they had a family
member, they themselves have hadan illness.
Or for myself, I don't I wantedto somehow help people from
(27:10):
suffering because it's somethingI experienced for a long time
and it makes me feel good.
But I call nurses the heartbeatof healthcare.
And I think you could reallyeliminate a lot of the
positions.
You could never eliminate thenurse.
And I don't want to say thatthey over there's a hierarchy
where they in any way trumpanyone else because doctors are
essential.
And I've met some of the mostamazing doctors over the years
(27:34):
who really care.
But nurses are the ones who arethere with patients all day.
We know what's going on.
You know what I mean?
And it's literally our job to weare the last line of defense.
So everything rolls down frompharmacy, from you know, if
you've got respiratory doctors,whatever.
You're the last line before itreaches the patient.
(27:54):
And so I think nurses, we get alot of love, which is great.
It's like commonly the mosttrusted profession, which we've
earned a hundred percent.
But it also we get a lot ofslack for like, I've heard
people say, like, oh, you know,if you knew a bully in high
school, she's probably a nurse,or nurses are mean girls, or you
know what I mean?
And I see that too.
Like, you know, we're fierce,like they're, but because we we
have so much guilt andownership.
(28:16):
I mean, you spend all daythinking about the well-being
for me, a critical care of oneor two persons' lives on a
minute to minute basis.
I'm wondering how everyone ontheir systems is doing.
And as you trickle down, youjust gain more patience and less
involvement in like the the critthe specifics, but bigger
picture things that need to goon in a day.
And so it doesn't get any lessstressful or caring as you move
(28:39):
out of the ICU.
It's just the workload changes,which I would argue that med
surge is harder than I see youon some levels when it comes to
like time management.
But I I think, yeah, I'm a hugenurse advocate.
It's a hard job in healthcare.
I describe it as like an abusiveboyfriend.
It's like we a lot of us comeinto it a little broken anyway.
I really feel that way.
I'm not saying all nurses,there's some healthy ones out
(29:01):
there.
I feel like I'm a healthy onenow.
But you know, I came in tryingto prove to myself I was good
enough, you know, I like takingcare.
I could get paid more if Imanage to Costco, honestly.
So, and that's a lot lessstressful job.
But I love what I do.
It's been like the honor of mylife to do some of the things.
I've ever been to cry because Iget so emotional.
But I've had some of the bestexperiences in my life nursing.
(29:22):
And um, when things happen withpeople I love or family members,
crisis or great things, like Ihave been one of the first
calls.
I have been able to be there inhorrific situations and hear
people's pain because I have theability to do that and
departmentalize, like otherpeople don't do, or when
someone's squeamish, you know,in your mom's bedroom, I I've
(29:44):
been able to go and help myfriends take care of their
parents.
And I'm so honored by that.
But I can tell you that theweight of that, the weight of
health care, the weight of thatstress for years, it took
something from me.
And it takes something from alot of nurses.
And it's a really hard balanceto learn to take care of
yourself and exist in a systemthat's constantly taking from
(30:04):
you.
So a lot of them are, you know,struggling.
You know, but uh they they careso much, you know what I mean?
I think you just from yourexperience, I know you met at
least one that really cared, andyou know what that's like.
You know, uh if it I would giveanything for my patients,
honestly, you know, you I sitdown, I see them as people I've
been on both sides of the bedand they're in a vulnerable
(30:24):
place.
And a nurse is a special personwho sees that vulnerability and
honors it.
Not all of them are there, butI'd say that vast majority are
and if if you have one who'sbeing shitty, they're probably
having a bad day and goingthrough personal shit and still
have to come to work.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
And that's why I went into leadership, honestly,
is because I want to supportthem and I learned through my
own burnout that the kind ofleadership you have, the kind of
acknowledgement for this hardwork we do, really in the long
run, is a whole is a lot of bigpieces of what people need.
So I'm took a step back frombedside.
Now I'm trying to just like loveon all of our baby nurses so
(31:00):
they know you're doing a goodjob.
It's okay.
It's a hard job.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
Cause when people are in crisis, they need someone
to blame.
You know what I mean?
Like, so sometimes we have areally beautiful experience with
families, and sometimes familiescannot wrap their head around
what is going on.
And the only control they haveto do, to do is to take it out
on the nurse.
And that's a very common thing.
And we get it, we try to rollwith it.
It's a hard job.
SPEAKER_01 (31:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I oftentimes as a therapist hearpeople say to me, like, oh, I
could like never do what you do.
And hearing you say all of that,I would almost say like that to
you.
Like, I don't know if I couldever do all what you do every
day in and day out, or whatnurses do day in and day out.
It's a hard job to carry all.
(31:43):
of that like raw pain and rawemotion that people experience.
unknown (31:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:48):
Well, and I think therapy is the same way though.
You hear people's crisis, yousit with people's trauma, and
then you have to go to your owntherapist who's specialized in
therapists.
Where you can find a way tosafely like say it without
therapizing yourself.
Because I before I was a nurse,I worked in mental health for 10
years.
I worked in adolescent therapy,like I was not a therapist.
I backpacked with a troubledteam.
So I got a lot of exposure tomental health before I became a
(32:10):
nurse.
And now I'm a neuro.
I specialize in neuro.
So anything with the brain I'mobsessed with.
And I'm not by any way an experton mental health, but I do it's
so my interest.
And so yeah, I like a therapy isanother there's a lot of jobs
like that, honestly.
You know what I mean?
Doctors too we we give them alot of flack because honestly
like my biggest complaint abouthealthcare sometimes is the way
(32:32):
doctors speak to us.
But that is no way saying theyshouldn't be there.
I don't respect them or I don'twant them.
I just think they need moresupport in their journey because
they give up their 20s wherepeople learn to be social and
they go to school and they learnto save lives.
And depending on what they'redoing, that environment can be
super stressful and they'resacrificing.
And then they get out there,they roll into these nurses who
(32:53):
we're really good people.
Don't argue with us.
Like we can, you know what Imean?
Like we're really good atpeople.
So you know I'm not trying inany way to knock doctors.
I wish they had more support forhow to speak to people, how to
listen because I think that'swhat's lacking from them is a
lot of them just don't spend thetime to listen to people.
And if you did most people justneed to get it out.
You know what I mean?
Yeah it's a simple thing ofhearing people out but that's a
(33:15):
whole nother a whole nother likesoapbox I could stand on.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Yeah I had a thought and then it like left me but it
was about just like I thinkpeople in healthcare in general
and you even said it aboutdoctors we go in this field to
like not make money or be richor anything but like to truly
care about people because that'slike at the core of what I think
(33:43):
a lot of people who get intohealthcare are doing it for
because it is a broke so much ofa broken system.
Like why else would we get intolike really wanted to try to
change it from the inside out.
Yeah.
But yeah I think that can leadto a lot of burnout amongst a
lot of people I know from in myown journey I was like 2020 like
(34:04):
I got that was seven years intomy journey as a therapist and I
was like oh my gosh like I don'tknow if I can talk to another
person.
I I think I need to just likehide in the hole.
I'm gonna go work at Starbucksand like be a barista and just
chill.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Check out of this shit for a minute.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
But then like you know really looking at myself
and like who I am I just didn'tfeel like I could actually be
okay with that.
Like I am doing this for areason going back to that why.
So yeah I think like keepingthat why and having good
boundaries and coping skills andall of the things really
protected me from being likecompletely burned out.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Yeah.
So what is your community like?
Because you know I know you knowabout the importance of
community because mental healthis your thing but so what do you
do for community?
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
Yeah so I really love talking to other people who
are doing similar things that Iam doing like whether it's
through this podcast or a partof a lot of different like group
practice owner groups because itcan be very isolating there.
And I imagine you know this nowespecially being in leadership
even though you're still atherapist or even though you're
(35:13):
still a nurse now there's thisother level that you have with
people that you're working withbecause like I own my own
business and and I technicallyemploy all of these therapists.
So there's this different powerdynamic that exists which is
interesting as therapists.
And I imagine this might besimilar to the training that you
get as a nurse but we're likewe're really trained to like get
(35:35):
rid of all power dynamics.
Like no power dynamics are spentmeant to exist in the
therapeutic relationship in alot of ways I feel like that was
trained out of me of years andyears of being a therapist.
So like trying to now sit inthis role of being quote unquote
in power of my employees butdon't really want to be in power
(35:56):
of my employees all that to saybeing a part of other people or
kind of like in that same roleand in that same position helps
decrease like the isolation andlike the confusion of how to
show up in this role.
And then yeah I think there'sjust like this camaraderie that
we all have with like beingtherapists and like knowing what
(36:17):
it's like day in and day out.
Cause like you said I don't haveany other therapists in my
family.
No one else really knows whatit's like to sit down every day
and give therapy to somebody inmy personal life.
So like almost has to be othertherapists that are in my
community and other people whoare like group practice owners
(36:38):
in my community.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah.
Yeah I find the same thing sinceI stepped into like when I
opened my own business andstarted my own company it just
felt like a lot of people puttheir fears on you in your
circle because they care aboutyou, not because anything bad.
So finding women who are in thatsame space who get it you know
and that is right there that'sthe key to community if you like
if you're struggling withanything.
(37:01):
The key is finding people whoget your struggle who've been
through something similar andbeing able to just talk in a
space where it's safe.
They're not going to judge youjust say what you mean like you
know what I mean feel your feelswith them with a person you
trust it with who gets it who'sbeen there who's felt similarly
and that has so much power somuch power it's so freeing.
Anytime we you know thisobviously but feeling isolated
(37:23):
and alone is it's such amountain to get over when things
get hard.
And it is the minute you feelconnected it's like an you get a
piece of energy you get a littlebit of freed you know what I
mean isolation is heavy.
And so if you can break that insome way it really is like a
catalyst to move forward.
It helps you build resiliency ithelps you feel heard it actually
(37:44):
improves your physical and youremotional health like there's
like proven statistics on thatstuff as well but it's so vital
and it's not new you know we Ican get on this like patriarchy
bandwagon forever.
But since the beginning ofhumans women have like gotten
together in community I know menhave too but differently women
have come together for manydifferent reasons.
(38:05):
And I read I think it wasSapiens I'm not sure which one I
used to read a lot of like booksabout like culture and things
like that.
I want to say like sociology ifI think that's wrong.
I used to read a lot of booksabout that because it's just so
so and fascinating to me.
And they give women storytellingand gossiping and gabbing and
like hunter gatherer communitiesso much credit for the
(38:25):
advancement of the human racebecause that's where stories
came from.
That's where stories were passedalong that's where knowledge was
kept you know and we're missingthat piece nowadays.
And I think like you yourpodcast is specific to mothers
think how much knowledge ismissing from that process.
When you used to be surroundedby all the women in your family
you know they say it takes avillage it does and we don't a
(38:47):
lot I shouldn't say we don'thave that because some people do
but I think it's less and lessthat people have that village
that community to say this isnormal or that's not normal or
you know I'm here for you I'llhear you that is hard you know
like whatever it is but we're awhole it's a very isolating
culture we live in nowadaysespecially for women.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
And I wanted to say too another great thing that we
haven't really highlighted yetabout community is also like
sharing wins with other peoplethat also get how big of a deal
a win is you know another momtelling you that they were able
to like get their kid to I don'tknow be potty trained that is
(39:27):
fucking amazing.
Like what are you talking about?
But if you like tell someonewho's never had a kid or maybe
so far removed from ever maybeit's been 20 years since they
potty trained someone they mightnot think that's like a big
deal.
But like being in it withsomeone and being able to
celebrate their successes Ithink is also like a huge piece
of why it's so important to bein community and be in a village
(39:51):
because you can have otherpeople who celebrate you who
truly know how big of a deal itis that you are celebrating that
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (39:57):
Yes.
Yes and along with that when yousee others win subconsciously it
also shows you I can too it'spossible because they struggled
like I did and they and they hadthis win.
And so it even though it's noton the very conscious
subconsciously you're showingyourself this is possible.
You know so it builds thatresiliency that confidence to
move forward when you're able tolike hear and share like that.
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah yeah I think it's goingback to what you're saying like
women in general are just meantto be I think and historically
like around other people justlike lifting each other up I do
too I do too you know like Ithink you know I'm a gabber I'm
a verbal processor and I thinkthat's somewhat evolved to be
that way.
SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
You know what I mean?
I have been very lucky in that Ihave had very close female
friends for over 20 years.
I don't have a lot I have twoyou know what I mean it only
takes one or two honestly youdon't need like I know a lot of
people like oh big friend groupsbut I think as you get older
it's not about the size of yourcommunity is it's like the value
of that community.
You only need one person whounderstands you.
(41:00):
Well I shouldn't say that youonly need one person who
understands what you're goingthrough.
You know what I mean like what Ishare my work stuff with is not
the people I share myrelationship struggles with.
You know what I mean?
So I have people in my life thatunderstand different things.
It's not like this huge thishuge community of all my friends
that I'm always keeping incontact with and texting
(41:20):
everyone all day because peopledo that, but that's not me.
I'm not I I am like wellextrovert and introvert whatever
that weird thing of both is thatI'm not keeping a hundred
relationships going.
I'm not talking to these peopledaily you know I have a couple
people I do that with but forthe most part it's like when I'm
in crisis I'm going to thesepeople I'm reaching out to them
to talk to them to get theiradvice to see if they've gone
(41:40):
through it and they're comingback because they know the value
they're in that same spot.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
So well yeah I so I guess I what I'm hearing you say
is having relationships is apretty good indicator of being
able to prevent burning outdoing it around like being with
other people helps burn out.
SPEAKER_00 (41:58):
It's a vital piece of it it's a vital vital piece
of it I mean there's like a lotof moving parts and like I said
it's very specific to eachperson but I think you know and
some people have the communityalready you know what I mean and
they're burnt out and they'relike but if you're burnt out and
you don't have that piece thatmight be where you start you
know what I mean other people wehave strong you may have a
strong community I did and Iburnt out you know what I mean I
(42:18):
didn't have the right peoplethough so I had to learn where
to like maybe I can't say thepeople I expressed my nurse
stuff with are my best friendswho I'd share all my deepest
darkest secrets.
But I do know that whensomething happens at work that
is so awful like I can go cry tothem and they will understand it
like no one else.
You know I've had some old ladynurses just like hold my face
and hold me and be like you'reokay and you know those moments
(42:39):
mean so much to me.
I'll probably never like see theinside of her home but I love
her dearly you know what I mean?
So it's important to have thosepeople in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (42:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
No I think what you just said is important too like
it's not just about havingpeople around you it's like the
right person at the right timethat you can trust you know what
I mean because some people youknow I found people think they
have community and then we starttalking and it's like well this
person kind of throws thingsback in my face or you know
encourages this or won't youknow keeps bringing me back to
this thing that frustrates me.
It's like that's not a goodfriend then you know not saying
(43:10):
you have to get rid of thatfriend but that's all the one
you're gonna go to for all ofthis.
You're gonna go to the one thatloves you no matter what who
doesn't judge you who hears youyou know and you know who that
is the safe people you're gonnago to the safe people first.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
Well where can people find you if they want to
connect with you further allabout that.
So um my podcast is calledEmpowered Ease and it's found
anywhere podcasts are found youcan find me.
I also have a YouTube channelit's uh Jen and the moonflower
collective my website is themoonflower coaching collective
dot com which I will send youall the links but really if you
(43:44):
just find my podcast EmpoweredEase anywhere the show notes
have you links to everythingelse.
I'm on like Instagram is Jen theMoonflower Coach, Facebook,
TikTok, Substack, all that stuffand I just mainly share a lot of
the podcast cast episodes I haveamazing guests on.
So if you're looking for to findyour community or to find some
support we have conversationslike this about real things that
(44:07):
are stressing us out real likedeep issues and get to know what
inspired women to to start thispath of helping others and yeah
check it out please yeah thankyou so much for being on and
yeah everyone go check all thethings she shared it'll be in
the shows it'll be on myInstagram and all the places as
well so thank you again.
SPEAKER_01 (44:28):
Yeah thank you so much for having me thank you for
tuning in to redefining us onceagain and share with other
people so other people cancontinue to listen to redefining
us and we can get into morelisteners ears if you follow us
or subscribe or leave a commentor review that would be greatly
(44:49):
helpful for other people to findus and also just for me to get
some feedback.
What do you guys want to hear mesay?
What do you women care abouthearing?
I'm totally open to bringing onguests and talking about topics
that are unique and inspiring toeveryone so please let me know.
And this year hopefully we'refull of a lot of community
(45:12):
building a lot of publicspeaking a lot of resource
sharing so I really encourageyou to follow us on social media
at Walminded counseling onInstagram as our handle as well
as going directly to our websitelongmindedcounseling.com
backslash redefining type us soyou can be in the know with all
(45:32):
the things that are happening inthe Redefining Us community.
Once again thank you so much forlistening and keep being
awesome.
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