Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
we're living in the
most age diverse time in human
history.
We have an aging population andwe speak about all these
different aspects of diversitywhether it's racial diversity,
gender diversity but agediversity is an untapped well of
(00:20):
innovation and just hasdelivered so much joy and
purpose in my life, and it'sactually scientifically proven
that connecting across thegenerations, no matter what age
you are, improves your health.
I have lived intergen my entirelife and now help inspire
(00:42):
others to really consider theage diversity that exists within
their life and help them reallyunderstand the benefits of
connecting intergenerationally.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Hello and welcome to
Rediscovering Connection.
I am Shelley Doyle and I'm heretoday with a guest who came
onto my radar through a friend.
We used to work at the same PRagency, although our paths did
not cross, and when Ireconnected with someone that
used to work there, he asked medo you know Nim?
Of course I did not, so I beganstalking her on LinkedIn and
(01:21):
soon came to realize that Nim isin a similar territory to me,
very passionate about socialconnection, belonging.
Nim has also created afantastic relationship deepening
game, which I have my own copyof here and I have been playing
around with, and another topicthat's really close to Nim's
heart is intergenerationalfriendship.
(01:42):
So, before any longer, I shallintroduce you to Nim de Schwart.
I hope I'm saying thatcorrectly.
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Nim, well done.
Thank you, shelley.
So good to be here.
Love a cross-continentalconversation.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes and Australia is
somewhere that's very close to
my heart.
I've lived over east coast andwest Coast, so I really want
this opportunity to leteverybody know, like what this
passion project is that you'reworking on, and maybe just going
back a little way like how haveyou gotten to where you are
today?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I think the first
place I'll start is.
You mentioned Australia and youknow I grew up in a very small
town.
I actually grew up in a treehouse like in the middle of the
rainforest in Port Douglas inNorth Queensland and it was a
very small community.
I grew up in the 80s and 90sand I really grew up connected
(02:37):
to community and Mother Natureand from a very early age I
became a curious observer ofhumans.
This was in the pre-Doomscrolling era, so my curiosity
for connection really startedyoung.
And, yeah, I guess I've justalways been so captivated by how
(02:59):
we humans connect, communicate,collaborate.
Humans connect, communicate,collaborate.
And fun fact is that I actuallydid a degree in photography and
my camera was my original wandfor human connection and it was
really a passport to intimatelyconnect with the humans on the
(03:21):
other side of the camera.
And it was here that I startedto witness my gifts to connect
with humans and it became sonatural and I could very easily
make humans feel safe and seenand relaxed and open.
And you know, getting yourphoto taken is never a safe and
(03:43):
relaxed and open experience.
So I guess, um, even though Igrew up and I had such a humble
beginning.
Um, I am super hyper, curiousand travel has always been a
main vein similar to you, um, amain vein or thread to my world.
And, yeah, like I didn'texperience plane travel until I
(04:07):
was 14 years old, but then, youknow, when I was 30 years old, I
was traveling 70% of my lifeand averaging 400,000 miles a
year.
I've lived across fourcontinents and traveled to over
64 countries and, yeah, I guessthe greatest journey actually
(04:27):
has just been coming home tomyself.
And coming back to Australiaafter living and working
overseas for 10 years was one ofthe greatest decisions I ever
made, but actually a decisionthat I made when I was extremely
lonely, which is ironic.
A mentor once said to me thatyour mess can be your message,
(04:52):
and I feel like it's a privilegeto have experienced those
depths of loneliness in thecorporate grind, because that
has given me a greaterappreciation to the value of
connection, and that's why we dothe work that we do beautiful.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It's actually making
me a bit teary because I just
dropped my mum at the ferry thisa couple of days ago after a
two and a half week visit.
So I'm definitely feeling thatpull for home and homesickness
at the moment.
Um and I connected with one ofmy favorite people in the UK
today and she reminded me of um,that fable about the fisherman,
(05:34):
the fisherman and thebusinessman.
I don't know if you've heardthat it's them.
So the fisherman is outcollecting fish and the
businessman goes over and askshim about how many fish he's
collected and then what he'sgoing to do with the rest of his
day and kind of collects a fewfish enough for his family, and
then he goes home and plays withhis kids and and then the
fisherman and then thebusinessman tries to encourage
(05:55):
him to make a business out of itand how he could collect more
fish and what that could then dofor his life and all of this it
was the ultimate game was tothen collect a few fish every
day and play with his kids.
So it's like we go on this bigjourney seeking and the reality
(06:17):
is for many of us it's thereturn that we're all, then,
seeking, we're returning to whatwe had, with a much, much
deeper appreciation for what itis.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
A hundred percent and
you know, you know this well,
shelley, because you'veexperienced firsthand the
expatriate life.
And, yeah, like there was astage in my life where I never
thought I wouldn't live in a bigcity internationally and be
working in internationalbusiness.
And now I feel so grateful thatI can live on the Gold Coast
(06:50):
and have the lifestyle that Iwant but also work
internationally.
And I think COVID was ablessing for that, because it
gave us permission to choosewhere we wanted to live but be
able to work on whatever wewanted.
Um, yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So let's talk
intergenerational friendship.
Um, I have my own experiencesof this through multiple
businesses that I was in and mymentors were much older than me.
Um, I also had a very, veryclose relationship with my
grandparents growing up.
My mom and dad were bothseparated, so we would be at my
(07:31):
nan and granddad's house everyweekend for quite a long time,
so I was very, very close.
My grandfather, who I was veryclose with, has recently passed
and there's a real loss therebecause he he was like, he was
like my person, you know, likehe would talk to anybody.
He's published a couple ofbooks, and I guess the last one
(07:53):
for me to mention is myspiritual mentor here in
Victoria BC called Bill, whocame and met my mum a few days
ago, which was really beautiful,and every time I see him he
brings me something to read,something profound.
I've got one here that says"'Nothing makes you feel as
unique and as loved "'as anotherseeing you for who you really
(08:14):
are.
"'someone who looks into yoursoul and cannot look away'".
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
He's delivering the
wisdom every time.
You see him, dear Bill, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
He really is, and I
feel incredibly blessed.
So maybe I'd love to touch onsome of those connections that
you've made that have beenreally profound in your life and
has really sparked thatintrigue and inspiration to, I
guess, be an advocate for thisway of living.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Oh, thank you,
Shelley.
Like we could do six podcastson this topic together.
You know, intergenerationalconnection has been my life's
main thread and essentiallyintergenerational connection is
bringing together the differentgenerations in mutually
beneficial ways, and it reallyhas such a profound ability to
(09:11):
promote empathy andunderstanding.
I think the first place I'llstart is why it's important.
We're living in the most agediverse time in human history.
We have an aging population andwe speak about all these
different aspects of diversity,whether it's racial diversity,
(09:32):
gender diversity but agediversity is an untapped well of
innovation and just hasdelivered so much joy and
purpose in my life.
And it's actuallyscientifically proven that
connecting across thegenerations, no matter what age
(09:53):
you are, improves your health,you know.
It increases our sharedlearning, you know, our sharing
of our skills and our lifeexperiences and knowledge.
It strengthens both us and ourfeelings of being connected, but
also it strengthens ourfamilies and our communities and
our workplaces.
(10:13):
And I have lived inter-gen myentire life and now help inspire
others to really consider theage diversity that exists within
their life and help them reallyunderstand the benefits of
connecting intergenerationally.
(10:35):
And yeah, I guess livingintergen for me is, you know,
it's a way of life and I've beenso blessed to have.
You know, I have an unofficialboard of directors in my life, a
board of modern elders.
I call them and I just feel youknow, no matter where you are
(10:55):
in your life, these elders are,they're my wise counsel and, you
know, they provide me withdirection that no Instagram
quote could ever provide me.
And I think that the value thatI get from these
multi-generational relationshipsin my life is it's so
(11:17):
fulfilling, but it's also such awin-win and there's this
two-way exchange and thisreciprocity that goes on.
And so, just like yourrelationship with Bill Shelley,
you know, like he is gaining somuch from that dynamic, as well
as your own, and I think onceyou experience a win-win, it
(11:39):
gets quite addictive because youget to see that, wow, there's a
give and take.
But there's also this mutualexchange that happens in these
intergenerational friendshipsand once you identify those
win-wins, you know it's just sobeneficial for both parties.
Some key elders in my journeythat have really shaped my life
(12:01):
experiences.
So when I was in my corporatedays, I was the youngest direct
report to a 70-year-old CEO of a$16 billion company and I was
30 and he was 70.
And we, you know in thecorporate environment we're an
intergenerational dream team andyou know he brought his wisdom
(12:23):
and his experience and I broughtmy innovative thinking and my
energy and this combination wasso disruptive but also so
beneficial because it was thewin-win and we created a global
program that really elevatedother mutual mentorships across
(12:44):
the organization and it became avery pioneering innovation
engine for this organization andI guess in the workplace you
know you hear this happeningwith the mentee mentor
relationship, but what peopledon't understand is you can
recreate that dynamics also notonly professionally but also
(13:06):
personally.
I got really curious byintergenerational collaboration
and went on to research it quitedeeply, and that's when I met
Chip Conley, and Chip is thefounder of the Modern Elder
Academy.
He is also the was a strategicadvisor to the Airbnb founders
(13:30):
and Chip's story is beautiful.
You know he was recruited by theAirbnb founders at the early
stages and they brought him inas a strategic advisor.
But what happened was quiteprofound because he became the
resident modern elder at Airbnband it was through his
(13:50):
experience here that he wrotehis book Wisdom at Work the
Making of a Modern Elder.
And when I read Chip's book Ithought that's it.
That's what I've experiencedand that's what I believe in.
And so I went over to Mexicoand worked and studied with Chip
and his team and then we wenton to teach MEA's first
(14:13):
intergenerational wisdom sharingworkshop.
And I continue to work closelywith Chip and the Modern Elder
Academy team because they havealways been such champions for
this notion of intergenerationalwisdom sharing.
And I think, especially on theageing journey, I think the
(14:36):
aspect of intergenerationalfriendships or connection
becomes more magnified whenyou're reflecting on things like
legacy and service.
So it's also scientificallyproven that if you have
intergenerational connections asyou are aging, it's better for
your health.
(14:56):
So it makes us healthier andhappier and more purposeful
humans.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Wow, incredible.
That trip to Mexico must havebeen so profound, like
lifechanging, I'm sure yeah, itwas, it really was prior to
finding your game, which iscalled reconnect uh,
conversation parts for deeperconnection.
(15:24):
Um, so prior to finding this, Iwas I was utilizing Arthur
Aaron's 39 questions which hepublished back in the 90s and
he's still going with it, sostill using the same questions.
He and his wife were stillusing them over Zoom with
friends during the COVIDpandemic.
So I was like these questionshave lasted the test of time and
(15:47):
I've thoroughly enjoyed usingthem.
But I must say, using yourcards feels really nice, like
having something tangible inyour hands that, honestly, I'm
just keeping in my bag now.
And I went to a HR networkinglike summer do last week and I
had them on my bag and I foundthe first few conversations with
(16:09):
people that I didn't know.
People were like what do you do?
Where are you coming from?
And it's like OK, so I got pastthose.
And then I met a few peoplethat I already knew.
So I pulled out this and justinvited a couple of people and
then, of course, people juststart flocking as soon as they
see that you're doing somethinga little bit gamified.
(16:29):
So then we had like a wholecircle of people and we're just
playing Like we're not evenplaying that many of them,
because it feels like it is thatconversation starter, that
sometimes you need to just takethe conversation topic to a bit
more of an interesting level.
I had my mum here last week, soone of the questions that came
(16:50):
up it was something about whatwould you tell like a 20
something version of yourself,and both her and her husband
both said then not to worry ornot to be fearful because it
like it'll all be OK, or not tobe fearful because it like it'll
(17:14):
all be okay.
And for me that was a reallyprofound moment to hear that
from them, being someone that'sactually um, you know, three
years ago we didn't need to cometo Canada and we did definitely
question why the heck we'redoing this, but I'd had like a
strong message going this isgoing to be the making of you.
You need to do this.
You know it can be two years,three years, until we come back,
(17:35):
um.
So I kind of embrace the fearand I step beyond the fear to
make this happen and I feel likethings are moving here in more
of an authentic direction for me.
But I don't want to be tellingmy 30 something version of
myself not to worry.
I want to just do it, do thething and then come back and go.
(17:55):
Yes, we did this.
I don't know where we're goingto go with this piece of the
conversation, but just maybewhat this is doing, what impact
this is having and, like theevent last week at the
conference that you're at and Isaw the video of just everyone
in the audience playing thisthat you are making a real
impact with this.
(18:16):
So congratulations, well done,and where's it going?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Thank you.
Well, who knows where is itgoing?
I'm on the train, but the firstplace I'll start is for humans
to connect.
Effective conversations andcommunication often begins with
the right questions, and whatReconnect does is it's
(18:47):
essentially a tool, because whatit's not rocket science, but
actually having a physical cardputs something between just
asking a more deeper questionout of the blue and these
powerful questions set the stagefor a deeper understanding and
stronger connections and reallystart to cultivate these
(19:09):
environments where everyonefeels heard and valued.
And what you witness with yourmum, which we often witness when
people are interacting withReconnect, is, you know, in this
crazy busy world that's AI anddigital overload, this notion of
reflection and nostalgia isactually scientifically proven
(19:34):
to be great for our health, andso having these opportune
moments to reflect don't reallyoften happen, but the cards give
people the permission to dothat, and I think that the way
that the reconnect questions arestructured are they're deeply
important, universal themes,they're age-inclusive themes,
(19:58):
but they are deeply personalwhen answered.
And so, you know, we ask aboutthings like experiences and
emotions and reflections andreally encourage that
storytelling.
And I think that this is me inthat deck, because in Western
cultures, we've really lost theart of sharing stories, in
(20:21):
particular across thegenerations.
And you know, in the Australianculture our Indigenous
Australians are, you know, theyare the longest and most
profound storytellers of thislifetime and we used to gather
around the campfire and sharestories across the ages.
(20:42):
But this is a lost art and whatReconnect does is it gives us a
tool to help us share storiesagain across the ages, just like
you were doing with your mum.
Reconnect was born out of eightyears of research and I really
I couldn't not do a productbecause the research was just
(21:04):
telling me that people actuallyjust need a very simple,
accessible tool to help them getoff their phones and to help
them start to facilitateself-facilitate, give them
agency to facilitate deeper andmore meaningful conversations.
And yeah, it's.
(21:24):
I mean, like the moment that youmentioned at this conference
last week, this is my ultimatehighest vision board moment to
witness an environment like youknow.
To witness an environment likeyou know.
A conference can be aconference experience and having
hundreds of people be.
(21:46):
You know, they were gifted areconnect card and a secret
envelope and they opened thatenvelope and the icebreaker was
they spoke to their neighbourusing one of the reconnect
questions was.
They spoke to their neighbourusing one of the Reconnect
questions and the entire room,shelley, ignited with human
connection energy and that forme you know that brings tears to
(22:07):
my eyes, because witnessinghumans connect and witnessing
humans reconnect is literallythe best thing I've ever
experienced and that's the powerof what Reconnect is doing.
And yeah, I guess, like the lastthing I'll say is, what I love
(22:28):
about the story that you sharedis that you know, probably by
coincidence, and that is,reconnect is used in a lot of
family or intergenerationalcontexts and that brings me a
lot of joy to hear, becausesharing across the different
ages, as you know, is somethingI'm so passionate about, and
(22:50):
Reconnect is a very accessibletool to help people do have
those conversations with,whether it's with family, or in
the workplace or in community sothis weekend I'm going camping
with friends, so I know there'sthree stages of the questions.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I wonder how, how you
would potentially play it like
maybe on night one just bringout stage one questions and like
just get really comfy cozyasking each other those kind of
top level questions, and thenmaybe during the day on day two
maybe bring out a couple ofstage two questions and just see
(23:29):
how we feel with it, and thenmaybe Saturday night after a
glass of wine, if we're feelingcomfortable, then maybe go to
stage three.
How does that?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
I think the the great
thing about reconnect is it's
uh, it has a lot of self-agencyand so it's a choose your own
adventure style.
And so you know, not everyhuman like we're huge connectors
, right, you and we love humanconnection, but you know others
(24:01):
it takes time for them to reallywarm up.
And the thing is, withreconnectors, environment is
really important, and so beingcamping and being in nature is
actually the perfect Petri dishin terms of the environment and
the conditions.
But the good thing is is thatin the deck there's three levels
(24:23):
of depth to the question.
We never like to say that it'seasier easy to hard questions,
because you know a hard questionto someone might be an easy
question to someone else.
So it's really about the depth.
And you know, in the pink levelthe questions it's a really good
(24:43):
warm up to get people sharing,sometimes people who maybe
aren't used to havingconversations or sharing.
You know it's nice because it'sfun, it's light, it's
accessible, it's easy, you know,and, and so you know you might
want to get the muscles, theconnection muscles, warmed up.
But a lot of people also justlike to shuffle the deck and
(25:06):
play at random and trust thatthe card that they're being
asked is the card they're meantto receive on that particular
day.
I think the last thing I'll sayis the self-agency piece.
So you know it's really up tothe individual on how much they
want to share.
You know there's no pressurewhen you play Reconnect that you
(25:29):
have to.
You know that you have to shareeverything.
It's really up to the userwho's experiencing it and how
safe they feel in terms of howmuch or what they want to share
um, I facilitated a workshop ata university a few weeks ago and
I just had it as my icebreaker.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
We had like half an
hour of drinks and pizzas before
we sat in circle, so I just hadthem in my hands and anyone
that came over, I invited themto choose a card and I played it
.
That you can either stick withthe what the card you chose or
you can twist.
So stick or twist every single,every single person stuck with
a card.
They chose every single one,which I thought was intriguing.
(26:09):
And then the last thing I'vedone with this deck I've been
playing around a lot.
So I went to an intro to tarotsession a few weeks ago, um, and
I thought I wonder if, I wonderif I could use this.
So after a little bit of anintro, they then matched us with
a partner and then, like, thepartner obviously bought a tarot
deck and I was like, well, I'mbringing this to see if there's
(26:31):
anything that I can do.
So we played with a fewdifferent ways that I could use
it.
So the way that we went with inthe end was I pulled three
cards at random for him, then hegave me short form answers to
all three and then, like, satwith it to see if something came
up that could benefit him andsomething did wow, I've never
(26:55):
heard this way.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean, this is
innovation happening?
Live right here, because I'venever.
You know.
And it is this choose your ownadventure right and you can
co-create.
And that's the thing withreconnect is it is a co-creation
with the partner or partnersthat you're playing with um,
maybe I'll do an article all theways you can play with
(27:18):
Reconnect.
Yeah, I know it's a validthought.
I think, at the end of the day,it's stimulating the sharing of
stories and this reflection.
And you know, quite often ashumans, it's not until we say
something out loud that thereflection really lands.
And quite often when peopleplay reconnect, it's after the
(27:43):
game that they have a lot ofinsights and integrations
because, you know, maybe they'vethought about in a moment or
experience or reflected onsomething in their current life
that they just haven't had thespace to really consider.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
And that's it we
learn about ourselves through
interactions.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yes, yes, we need to
write that on a T-shirt, shelley
.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Nim, it's been a
beautiful, beautiful opportunity
to speak to you today.
Are there any final words thatyou would love to share before
we sign off?
I will, of course, include allof your links and all of the
ways that people can buy thisbeautiful game that's going to
help them reconnect in their ownlives.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Well, I guess you
know, we know that we're
stronger when we stand togetherand I think that bridging the
gaps between the differentgenerations with empathy, with
respect and with open hearts,you know that for me it means
that we're recognising this.
(28:51):
You know, wealth of knowledgeand experience and perspectives
that every age brings, and Ihope that you know today's
podcast inspires some listenersto you know, have more conscious
choices when it comes tofostering deeper connections
across the ages, because itreally celebrates our shared
(29:11):
humanity.
And I think that I know thatyou know these intergenerational
relationships enrich our livesand they enhance our collective
well-being and you know this iswe want to have a future where
every voice is heard and everyhuman feels seen and valued, and
so why not?
(29:32):
Let's start getting curious toconnect across the ages and
leading with that curiosity overthat judgment.
Because I think in our currentworld, with, you know, the
bombardment of thesegenerational divides and these
generational naming and shaming,it's very easier to be
influenced by media, of thesedivisive narratives, and I
(29:58):
demand a new, inclusivenarrative.
I think living inter-gen is awin-win and I think that it's
changed my life and it canchange the listeners' lives.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasure and Ilook forward to following your
journey.
Yeah, I'm on this ride with you.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
we're on this ride,
get on the human connection bus
everyone.