August 24, 2024 • 41 mins
Emilia Salhotra is a HR and Digital transformation leader based in the UAE. Originally from Metro Detroit, Emilia has been leading complex digital transformations in Dubai for the last 7 years. We talk about the challenges of keeping hybrid teams connected, AI use cases - in HR, digital etiquette tips for global teams, and using technology to foster connections - in our personal and professional lives.
This episode is ideal for global leaders navigating digital change and seeking to enhance team cohesion.
About Emilia Salhotra:
Emilia Salhotra is a digital transformation and change leader with a proven track record across diverse industries and global markets. As Senior Director at e&, Emilia leads HR digital transformation, change management, and employee experience initiatives. With a strong foundation in management consulting, Emilia has driven successful strategies and programs across sectors such as Oil & Gas, Government, and Telecommunications.
Find Emilia Salhotra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emiliaallen/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'd like to mention is, when it comes to technology
not just HR technology, but justtechnology in general there
seems to be a gap with womenembracing it, and so, for me and
maybe this is a conversation wehave at another time, shelley,
I'd love to do that, but reallya push for women to look into AI
(00:21):
, look into some of thesebleeding edge technologies and
begin to implement that in theirwork.
For me, technology should bedemocratized, it should be for
everyone, but we're noticingthere's a gap with women's using
and embracing technology,particularly gen AI, and that's
something that I'd like to talkabout how we can address that
(00:45):
gap and have women really beembracing this.
Otherwise, we're going to havean even more of a digital divide
.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection.
I am Shelley Doyle and I'm heretoday with Amelia Salahotra,
who is a HR transformationexpert and digital
transformation lead who is basedout in the UAE.
And Amelia came onto my radarthrough some of the future of
work talks that she has beeninvolved with and in my master's
(01:18):
thesis I'm really delving intosocial wellbeing, social
connectedness and how thisimpacts employee engagement.
So in this conversation we willbe delving into some of
Amelia's experiences, past andpresent, some of the
organizations she has served,really looking at some of those
impacts during the COVIDpandemic and what she's been
(01:40):
doing since to help her, helpthe leaders and help the teams
to stay connected in a time ofsustained change.
So welcome Amelia, so wonderfulto have you here.
Thank you for making the time.
Hi, shelley, thank you so muchDelighted, and I know your
journey is kind of similar tomine in that you've lived in
(02:01):
multiple places around the world, so I don't know if you want to
start by just sharing a littleinsight about, kind of, where
you come from and where you aretoday.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I recently I told someone that I'm from a small
town with big dreams.
You know, I'm very proud ofwhere I'm from.
My roots are in deep metroDetroit, Michigan I'm from.
My roots are in deep metroDetroit, Michigan, and I find
myself here in Dubai.
I think I was always going totake a global role.
I've always sort of sought thatout.
(02:31):
I love people.
That sort of has informed mycareer in transformation and in
HR and in people development andcoming to Dubai was sort of a
natural pull for me as a placewhere I could really grow and
contribute.
I have a management consultingbackground and so from the
(02:55):
opportunity to come andcontribute and participate in
building our talent andorganization practice arose, I
grabbed it with two hands andhave been here in Dubai for the
last seven years.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Amazing and let's delve into the COVID pandemic
when I think all of our rolesand priorities changed almost
overnight.
I'd love to know kind of howyour role evolved and what you
really took by the helm to helplead your teams through this
kind of turbulent time.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah.
So during that time I was inDubai.
I was working with an Abu Dhabiclient on a massive ERP
implementation like 60,000 userimplementations are huge 60,000
user implementations or huge,several waves of releases.
(03:51):
And then COVID hit and we weresort of gearing up for it,
gearing up for it, and then wethought, wow, we've got this
massive workforce.
Our client has this massiveworkforce.
We have to equip them to beable to continue to work during
this time and this client I liketo refer to them as the
economic engine of the country.
So really, really critical work.
And so I remember having to putsome tools.
(04:13):
The organization has severaldifferent teams or group
companies, maybe they call them.
I remember I was assigned oneand had to provide a white glove
service very quickly we had aweek to do it to go and put
Microsoft Teams and thesedifferent tools on people's
desktops, their laptops andtheir mobile phones.
(04:36):
So it was a very rapid, quick,quick change of look.
We've got to equip you to beable to work from wherever you
are.
And then there was, of course,the training and the etiquette
training that accompanied that,so they'd make the most of the
tools they had.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I want to delve into this.
This word etiquette training.
What does this mean, and do weall need to have this training?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So here's what I'll say.
So I have a managementconsulting background.
When you're in consulting,notoriously you can work from
anywhere at any time.
Whether that's good or bad, Iguess it's up for discussion.
Things like I mean it beganwith, like Skype I don't
(05:26):
remember Skype back in the daythen Zoom came out and Microsoft
Teams, so I'd always it sort ofbecame part of the way that we
worked as consultants.
But if you have always worked inan office nine to five and you
don't have that sort of remotework culture, there's a lot of
sort of nuances that, uh, thatyou need to know about it.
Uh, and these are things that Ithink, because we've gone
(05:48):
through covid, most peopleadapted to.
But I remember, uh, when we didthe etiquette courses, it was
like put yourself on mute untilyou have, uh, you know, a
contribution, raise your hand,um, join a minute beforehand so
that you've got your screen andyour audio is working, and you
(06:08):
know, start your meetings ontime, end your meetings on time
right, because we also sawduring the COVID.
So I think, even now, as wecontinue hybrid work, this
blurring between work and homeand so being really respectful
of start and end times, Ifyou're going over saying
(06:29):
something like okay, see, we'reat the top of the hour, do you
have five more minutes?
So this sort of etiquette thatsort of surrounds this new way
of working.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I love that so much.
I remember I was taking thescience of happiness
qualification at my whilst I wasat my last organization and one
of the things on there is likereally simple but just
encouraging meetings to wrap upfive or 10 minutes before the
hour, being conscious that mostpeople will have another meeting
starting on the hour.
To give people, at least youknow, a time to just have a
(07:01):
breather between meetings.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, yeah, you're really a zombie after seven,
seven hours back to back, nobreak.
But then I think also we asindividuals, or we as employees,
are also being a good peopleleader managers is being careful
of those sort of nuances.
I think something I alsolearned during that time that I
hadn't implemented before, whichI absolutely implement now, is
(07:27):
I schedule my day.
I put everything in it.
So if I'm going to eat, I'vegot a half hour block.
If I have a heads down time,I've got two heads down times,
that I have two hour blocks inmy calendar every day and I keep
that and I move it around asneeded.
But I've got that timedesignated for me to do a lot of
.
I like try.
I'm trying to do meeting duringthat time, I'm trying to stay
(07:48):
up to date on research and thenewest trends, but if I don't
have that dedicated time blocked, I just find I don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So it's okay for me to have it.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
We'll just creep into those hours as well, I would
imagine, yeah, so I've got itscheduled, I move it around, but
I make sure, sure I give myselfthat time to do that sort of
necessary thought leadership,deep thinking work.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Beautiful, beautiful, and I know from my experience,
like when I'm at my mostproductive and for me that's
mornings I really need to put myhead down, but it working for a
large organization that doesn'talways suit everybody else, and
then your mornings can just getbacked up with meetings.
So I guess, just being mindfulof your own productivity levels
(08:35):
and maybe communicating that toyour teams, to say actually I
need my block in the morning soI can get the work done, and
then let's meet when the morningso I can get the work done and
then let's meet when.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
you know, I recently saw an interview with Jeff Bezos
and I mean, this is a person ofincredible privilege to be able
to do this, but sort of aninteresting piece that he
doesn't take a meeting before 10am and he sort of has his
putter around time.
That's what he calls itputtering around and he putter
around time.
That's what he calls itputtering around and he putters
around.
He reads the newspaper, hecatches up on whatever his
information sources are, andthen he takes his first meeting
(09:10):
at 10 am.
I think most of us don't havethe luxury to do that, but it's
an interesting exercise.
He also keeps his mostimportant meetings, the deep
thinking meetings, for 10 am andagain, that's someone in an
incredible position of privilege, but it's an interesting
thought exercise yeah, I don'tknow if you saw his interview
(09:32):
with Lex Friedman, but that wasan excellent interview.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I think it's the first interview I'd ever seen of
him, and something that Ireally took from that was about
being the leader in a meeting,and he would.
People would come very preparedwith whatever the discussion
was that they were puttingforward, and then he would allow
every other person in the roomto share any thoughts or
(09:57):
feedback before him and he'd bethe last one to speak.
I thought that was powerful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That's interesting.
That to me says he's got theright team in the room.
He's like I've got all thesebrains in the room and I'm going
to let them work.
I like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So how is your way of working now?
I've been speaking to a fewother organizations that have
shifted to either remote work orhybrid.
First, um, how is this set up?
Where you are right now?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
uh, so hybrid, hybrid .
So three typically three daysin the office, two days, uh,
remote.
But every Friday is a greenFriday.
What does that mean?
That means everyone's remote ona friday and everyone's remote
on a friday.
You uh conservation,conservation, uh initiative.
(10:53):
So it means lights are dimmed.
The ac is a low word, um, soit's.
It also has a sustainabilityimpact as well.
So really it's it's three daysin office and you get to pick
your one wildcard day betweenMonday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And how does that feel, and how have the employees
responded to to that Like Iimagine it's more flexible than
pre COVID, but that's stillquite, a quite a big number of
days in the office, is that?
How's the vibe?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And I mean I'm an advocate, of course, for COVID.
I'm an advocate of doingwhatever you want.
So if you're which I think isquite controversial, maybe but
if you're judging youremployees' performance on
value-based outcomes, thenyou're totally fine with people
(11:48):
working remotely from whereverright.
So I come from that sort ofschool, that model, if we need
to meet in person.
The consulting firm I workedfor had offices all over the
world and if you're an employee,you know I was in Delhi, for
example, and I was able to scanin and go into the office there
Very cool.
So I'm used to that model.
(12:10):
So I'm always going to leantowards more freedom of location
.
But in order to do that, youhave to have a skilled workforce
and you have to have managersthat are in a position to have
difficult conversations withemployees about their
performance.
You have to have a transparentperformance and reward system
(12:31):
that everyone understands how itworks and you've got to have an
employee base that understands,that's able, that's in a
position that you have roles,are able to thrive in that right
.
In that way, I would say Ingeneral, I think that if you
have gone hybrid, it's reallytough to go back.
(12:53):
It's really tough to go backand I think that when we see
some of these, like financialinstitutions, calling their
employees back to the officefull time, you know I'm quite
critical of those choices.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I've just been reading a report about employee
engagement and those figures arean all time low.
That's based in the US.
Yeah, would you say, that's aglobal trend.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I can't imagine it wouldn't be.
I can't imagine it would be,because the overall message that
you risk sending to youremployees, when you've had
people work fully, remotely orin a hybrid environment and then
you call them back in office isyou risk sending the message
that we don't trust you.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
yes, and then that has a reverberation unemployment
, engagement, morale and how issocial connectedness between
between teams right now, havingkind of gone working from home,
now coming back and that is itfeeling like the teams are
(13:59):
connected as well as they werebefore, are there any tactics
that you're bringing in to helpthem really nurture connections
with each other?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
What I think about the clients that I've had here
in the GCC, and they've rangedfrom large multinational
companies, from financialinstitutions, you know, from
some of these core sectors, youknow oil and gas.
When I think about all mytelecom, when I think about all
these sort of these clients, wetalk about social connectedness.
(14:30):
The thing, the thing for methat's so important, is that
you're purposeful in it.
So I know that there'scriticism on we lose our culture
when we're remote or hybrid,but if you do, if you set up
programs, if you seek thatconnection in a purposeful,
(14:52):
surgical, intentional way,you'll be able to foster it.
Um.
I'm also someone who's a bigadvocate for new realities, so
this is what we have seen like ametaverse.
It's sort of been thisevolution right where we're
calling it metaverse, and thenweb 3, and now it's sort of new
realities, um, but really what?
(15:12):
It is?
Sort of embracing differentmediums and different ways to
interact with colleagues.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Beautiful and I'm totally on that train.
I ran a metaverse meetup groupfor about a year, a couple of
years ago now.
It was kind of when the hypewas really high before AI kind
of dominated any conversation,and I love it.
So I began taking friends intodifferent metaverse spaces and
(15:39):
and also with my meetup group,and I just discovered that it's
so much more fun to like go intothese spaces with people that
you know, because, like justgoing in and exploring these
spaces on your own and justbumping into randoms it's you
just don't really get a feel forwhat these spaces are offering.
So I'm really excited about,about this new, uh new way that
(16:03):
we can interact, um, and Ireally think this is going to be
yeah, this is going to be thefuture of work for me, I I think
that we've got some thingswrong with metaverse in the
beginning.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm willing to sort of say that I think that we've
got some things wrong withMetaverse in the beginning.
I'm willing to sort of say thatI think we got some things
wrong.
I think that we were takinggaming and trying to make it a
corporate environment.
So this is gaming, and thenwe're going to just take our
corporate environment in a game,and I think what we've seen, or
what I really like that we see,is this evolution of gaming
(16:38):
being gaming.
And then how do we use that tofoster connections?
And use cases that I love arethings like for training, for
HSE, so like recreatinghazardous environments, and how
you might work as a teamtogether to sort of address like
there's a fire somewhere, whatis our agency protocol?
(17:01):
How do we put that into place?
And then also doing acompetition together.
So, for example, mario Kart isa team building exercise from
wherever we are.
So letting gaming be what it isas a way to build community in
an enterprise.
So I'm liking the way that we'vesort of evolved from.
(17:22):
Okay, because I agree with you,there are these spaces and it's
like, okay, we're going to gowatch a speaker in the space and
it was cool, it was cool.
But to allow it to be what itis and then sort of reapply that
to an enterprise environment,for me is very cool.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And really what's coming up for me is just, it's
all about shared experiences and, like, as someone that's living
away from my hometown, you know, I can catch up with friends or
family and just give them arecap of what's going on in my
life, or I can invite them toshare a live experience with me,
(18:03):
like a digital experience inthe metaverse somewhere, and
that thing gives us something totalk about with other people.
So it's like how we bring thatinto the workplace to, um, yeah,
I guess incentivize, uh,connectedness when people aren't
necessarily going to be in thesame offices as each other and
(18:24):
even in more sort of uhsimplistic so we sort of went to
this like this gaming piece Ilove to talk about, um, but even
a more simplistic way.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So I so I live in the UAE, my family lives in
Michigan and reason I have anephew who I don't get to see
enough, um, and I, and I also ama mother of a toddler, and the
other day my mother and I wehave the same book, baby beluga.
I don't know if you're RafiRafi's greatest hits.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I, I, I know I know Rafi a little bit.
He actually came to myuniversity to receive an
honorary doctorate the firstyear that I was here in Canada.
I didn't know who he was and mychildren were the only children
in the audience because it wasall just like people receiving
their certificate.
So he did like a 30 minute setto us, which was Baby beluga and
(19:19):
all of the songs.
So we got home and then we puthim on youtube and I'm now like
connected with raffi.
We're like twitter friends.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Oh wow, we have to take him in this podcast episode
.
Yes, well, the thing is so I'vegot a baby beluga copy and my
mother has a baby beluga copyand we're taking turns reading
the book to my son and then mymom to her nephew, and we're
doing it jointly together.
I read a page, she reads a page, and it was fantastic.
(19:48):
It was fantastic because we'retrying to foster those
connections, both me with mynephew, me with with my mom, but
then also between my young sonand my nephew.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So it's a great way to bridge that, because you know
this great distance that wehave yes, and I spoke to a
friend recently whose mother isin France and during COVID their
mom was giving them Frenchcooking lessons on video.
So they've, like, reallyperfected their culinary skills
(20:21):
with their mom.
Having that beautifulconnection during during, you
know what could have been a timeof disconnection, of actually
really embrace an opportunity toconnect and this is what, and
this is what is the goodness oftechnology.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
This is the goodness of technology and I think, when
we also talk about AI, forexample and I recently built out
the AI strategy and roadmap forone of the organizations I've
worked with and there's a lot offear around AI, I think totally
warranted.
I think totally warranted.
But I always give two examples.
(20:59):
One is because I'm from MetroDetroit and I talk about the
assembly line and sort of therevolution that that brought in
the industrial revolution.
It was a technology at the timethat workers had some
trepidation around, were unsureabout it.
I see AI and what the tools andthe possibilities for what it
(21:21):
can do is the same sort ofrevolution for us as well.
But I think it's reallyimportant that we focus on
building responsible tools,building responsible realities,
building responsible enterpriseswith this technology, but
keeping the goodness of it atthe core.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I was listening to apodcast the other day and it was
just saying with anything likeAI, your view is going to be so
based on your life experience.
So that's a really beautifulexample of that from Detroit,
how that's really shaped your.
You're not really livingthrough fear of it because
you've.
You can feel into an example ofhow this benefited the, the
(22:08):
wider society and I.
Really.
I really live that.
Like I, I live the idea ofpositive, how these tools can
positively impact our lives.
But I'm also very aware of therisks and, as someone who's
worked in communications for 20years, when AI, when ChatGBT
(22:30):
first became public, I wasoverusing it and I was starting
to like filter my social mediaposts through it.
I'm like what am?
I was starting to like filtermy social media posts through it
.
I'm like what am I doing?
Like I can do communications,like I think it's wonderful for
people that haven't had thatexperience and they can.
You know, it kind of levels thebar in that way.
But as someone, I don't want tolose my voice and I think
that's the concern that we'regoing to allow it to.
(22:53):
And I don't know about you, butmy email inbox is full of emails
that maybe some people wouldused to send them every week or
every couple of weeks or everymonth, and now they've suddenly
put their emails into an AI toolso they can be sent out on like
a daily basis or in every otherday, and I'm like unsubscribe,
(23:13):
I don't need.
I don't need to hear from peopleas frequently so um yeah, very,
very conscious of the, therisks, but also leaning into the
positive of like it's fabulousfor like templates and helping,
helping to just kind of lead usin the direction, to populate it
in the way that we we can andwe have honed our experience to
(23:36):
be able to do.
Yeah, I'd love to hear anyother examples of maybe where AI
is really helping the work thatyou do.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Sure.
So I think when it comes tolike, let's talk about HR use
cases in particular, so thecases that you typically hear
people get, so I'm a littlecontroversial in some of these
viewpoints, but it's becausethere's a.
I think that some things are abit of a regurgitation and so I
want to stay away from that.
So the most common HR use casesfor AI that we hear have to do
(24:13):
with talent acquisition and alot of them have to do with
screening candidates, and for me, this is very dangerous.
This is very dangerous, andwe've seen sort of this
evolution of now.
If you look at LinkedIn chats,they'll say here's ways to beat
the ATS right, the applicanttracking system, here's ways to
(24:34):
get recognized.
You hear from recruiters,especially in the Gulf.
This is a real issue in the UAE.
Part of the reason is becausethe barriers to visa entry are
so low and also it's just agreat place to live and work.
You know, the UAE is fantasticOne role, a thousand applicants
(24:55):
in three days, which is not achallenge that we see as common
in other parts of the world.
So really it's a huge issue inthe Gulf and really a big issue
in the UAE.
So then we have our talentacquisition teams leaning very
heavily in AI.
So then they say to me okay,what am I supposed to do?
(25:18):
Then you want me to go througha thousand, a thousand you know
CVs for one role.
Is that what you want me to do?
So I think the answer is youhave to use the tool judiciously
so you can use it as a way tolook and a lot of people will
apply to roles that there's justno, not even a close fit at all
right and so to use it as aweeder for them.
(25:41):
There's no fit, but you stillneed to have a human eye.
We still need that skill setthat some of our great
recruiters have of being able towinnow out and find and seek
good candidates.
So, from talent acquisitionperspective, I'm quite critical
of those use cases.
(26:01):
But what I do love is use caseswithin HR operations and I also
love it within.
I've got a great example.
We just did this at one of myclients for performance
management.
So one of the leaders came andsaid I, the methodology that
this projected client was usingfor performance management and
goal setting was a smartmethodology, so specific,
(26:23):
measurable time.
But you know, um, and said Iwant everybody, the whole
organization.
You know 11 000, you know 12000 people must have all of
their goals.
Smart um, and my colleague, whothe woman, I should say, who
was overseeing the COE forperformance management fantastic
(26:44):
, really, a leader in her fields, a great to partner with
actually was, you know, did thetimetable on it, didn't say no,
said if you want me to do it,here's how long it's going to
take for me and my team to do it.
And so I said I bet we canbuild you a tool.
I bet we can build you a toolfor that.
So I have a great relationshipalways with the IT teams,
(27:05):
because I work sort of in thechasm between I'm a translator,
so sometimes I consider myselfpart of IT, Like I think I'm
part of IT and transformationteams, and that's because you
know my background, obviously.
But I digress.
What I'm saying is let's buildher a tool.
And so we were able to buildher a tool that was then able to
(27:28):
use Gen AI to assign apercentage weightage on where a
particular goal was from a smartperspective.
So then, something that wouldhave taken her a month she was
able to run it in a couple hours, able to prioritize.
Okay, look, these person'sgoals are 60% smart.
We'll do that later, but I'vegot all these people that have
got 10 to 30% smart goals.
We need to focus on them andcourse correcting them.
(27:50):
So that's a great productivityhack from a Gen AI perspective
brilliant.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I love that, and I also just want to go back to the
1000 applicants for a rolepiece.
So obviously ATS is a thing andthey're going to be run some of
those through.
So how many of those 1000 doyou think is actually touched
and seen by a human being?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
wow, that's a great question and I should have an
answer, since I'm vocal about it, about this use case.
I can't imagine that arecruiter is looking at more
than 100, 150.
I can't imagine which is stilla lot, right, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
And do you think that's typicalin the UAE now, like everybody
just wants a job there?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, it's a great place.
It's a great place to live andwork.
There's a lot of opportunity.
So I think that folks arewanting to come to the UAE, to
be in the UAE and then hoping togrow in the UAE.
So it's really a unique problemto to this part of the world.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And how about community and connection outside
of work in the UAE?
How have you found that likeintegrating into the community
there?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, it's quite naive of me when I first came.
So someone asked me thisquestion last week how long it
took for me to acclimate, and Igave the truthful answer which
was two and a half years.
And I think by acclimate I meancompletely feel at home,
completely be able to navigatesystems to you know if there's
(29:36):
an interaction with thegovernment, know how to manage
that, uh, to feel confident inthose interactions.
Also, maybe two and a halfyears that's how long it took,
um, and I was working the wholetime right, I've had great
clients.
You know I have um, I have someclients.
There are some in particular whoare I can't name them because I
(29:58):
I think they'd be quite shy,but really without sort of that
friendship from my clients Iwould not still be here in the
UAE.
It's been that critical to helpme navigate the culture, to
have someone cheering you on inyour corner.
You know, recently actually,one of my very first clients, um
(30:21):
, when I first came here, Iactually had a, had a call with
them earlier today, quick 15minute call, how you doing um,
and so those deep relationshipshave really helped me thrive and
put roots here and how about?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I know that you're looking to get home yeah, for a
break to reconnect, and how doyou find yourself staying
connected with some of yourbeloveds back home?
Do you embrace some of thisemerging technology with people
that you know and love?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
yeah, you know, so I get, I have to.
I have to say this the the thegreatest lottery, the luckiest
thing that ever happened to mewas being born into the family I
was born into.
I have incredible parents, Ihave incredible siblings and
(31:14):
really, you know, you and I arejust talking on one here today
and it just looks like it's justme just talking on one here
today and it just looks likeit's just me, but really my
community is behind me,organizations are behind me, so
literally thousands of peoplepush me and cheer me on.
So sometimes this is everybodythat I know.
Everyone feels this.
(31:34):
Sometimes you think you're alone, it's just you, it's
insurmountable, but then thereare so many people behind me.
My, you know, my, my highschool is behind me.
My community is behind me,everywhere I've ever worked
behind me, my universities arebehind me, so, so I so I have to
remember that from all, eventhough I'm here, I'm an expat
(31:55):
there are so many people thatare cheering for me, that are
saying go, go, go, go.
So I'm really lucky to havethat.
And then the tools that I useare all the time so I've got
zoom, uh, microsoft teams,instagram, social media, tiktok,
um regularly.
I stay in touch all the time umI talk to my parents daily,
(32:20):
talk to my parents daily um so Ihave those strong social
connections um from so manypeople and and I think that that
has helped me not feel alonewhen I'm so far away.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Can you imagine, like just go back 20 years and what
was available to us?
Email, email was available tous as a communication tool.
How different the expatexperience would have been in
that way.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, I think, much lonelier.
So that's where I think it'salso really important, though,
to keep that centering on,because it's not just me that
has their community behind them.
Right, there's so everyone hasthat.
Everyone has people that standbehind you.
We do nothing alone.
We don't succeed alone, so Ithink it's a little bit of the
(33:15):
mindset that you have to have toembrace the bit of bravery to
know, even though I'm gonna gotry something new, be physically
away from those people thatthat I love, that love me, um,
but I always carry them with me.
I carry them with me, you know,and I am fortunate that we have
these tools and I am able totalk to them, but I think it's
(33:38):
also my mindset of I don't doanything alone.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And this is kind of leaning into part of part of the
work that I do.
So I came across thisincredible theory called
Dunbar's number and the idea isthat our human brains only have
the capacity for 150 people atany one time, which, of course,
will evolve and fluctuate as wego through life and like there's
(34:05):
different spheres of intimacy.
So I actually started to mapthe people in my life last year
and this is after going throughlike a real period of
disconnection and loneliness,being here in a different
country, and I discovered thateven starting to do that process
of mapping started to help meto realize I have incredible
(34:27):
people in my life.
I have these amazing littlecommunities um dotted around the
world and I have the power toreach out to them and they, if
they have capacity in their life, they may well come back to me,
they may well not.
And this is part of the workthat I do with my clients to
really help them to map thepeople in their life and and
(34:47):
really think about who are thekey players in their life right
now.
And those key players don't allneed to live around the corner
from you, like speaking to yourparents every day.
They're your key players.
They are in that central coreof your map, and technology can
be an incredible tool, but whatI'm discovering more and more is
that social media if we're notmindful and intentional about
(35:11):
our social media use, we mightbe filling up that 150 with a
whole bunch of people that wehave never met, we will never
meet, we're not actually eveninteracting with, we're
literally just voyeuring.
Um, and then we are.
We are losing the spaciousnessin our 150 for the people that
actually really matter to us.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So what an interesting concept, what an
interest.
I had not thought of it thatway, that if you that there are
some ways that you can, if youonly got 150.
There are ways that you canartificially fill um
unintentionally, yeah,interesting, yeah, the intention
(35:52):
I like the intentionality ofthat.
Something that I've been sayinglately is that legacies are no
longer left in monuments, insculptures, but legacies are
rather left in people.
So it's about fostering thoserelationships and those
friendships um, because I cantell you about clients I've had
(36:14):
and I can tell you aboutcolleagues I've had um, but it's
been those individualfriendships and that's what's
lasted.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And that's really like it's proven that if we are
feeling socially satisfiedeither within work or outside of
work, it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
So long as our social needs are met, we are going to
be feeling more engaged in thework that we do.
Yeah, that's, that's aninteresting concept, um, when we
talk about like burnout, and wetalk about particularly in the
consulting field, um, which issort of notorious, when I was
doing that, it was common for meto work 16, 18 hour days, um,
and I think there were sometimes I felt my existence was a
bit vapid, right, because it wasjust work, sleep, try to eat
(37:04):
something.
You know, I think for me, aturning point was when I had
stopped exercising, which issomething that really, you know,
fuels me up.
I identify as an athlete,although these last couple of
years I don't know that anybodyelse would, but I identify as an
athlete.
And so I think, when I stoppedexercising, I think that was
like OK, this is all consuming,this is all consuming.
(37:27):
And then the promotions I wasgetting, you know, in rapid
succession, I really, I really Ireally progressed quite well
and the organization made it ahuge investment in me, but I
think it was eating away at meas well the expectation probably
rose with the promotions yeah,yeah.
But the thing is it was oddbecause I loved I love working
(37:50):
hard, I love that intensity.
You know it really fuels me,but I think it was also eating
me, and so when I made thedecision to step away from
consulting and sort of seek outan industry role, really it was
a role that I couldn't refuse.
It was the opportunity to leadsomething I really wanted to
lead, make an impact in thecountry that I felt had given me
(38:13):
so much.
But there are other ways to dothat.
There are other ways to do that, and I think that some of it
was I.
I needed to step away from thatindustry for a bit.
Um, I have a deep respect forpeople that are are consultants.
I think that I will probablyreturn to management consulting
one day, or I would hope to, uh,but I, I would like to do it a
(38:35):
bit differently and maybe, maybeset, um, maybe set some more
boundaries.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
So, as we kind of start to wrap up this
conversation, I'd love to justask you what is the future of
work?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I can tell you what I would hope for.
I can tell you what I wouldhope for.
I can tell you what I wouldhope for.
I'd hope that the way that wework becomes more value-based.
It becomes less about profitsand more about people.
I hope that we're able to usetechnology for all the goodness
(39:17):
that it can provide, and I hopethat we're able to continue to
have this sort of global worldthat really respects the
individual cultures and culturalnuances that have made things
so special.
That's a bit abstract, but forme, that's what the future of
(39:39):
work, an ideal future of work,would be.
It would be people focused andculturally nuanced.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Beautiful.
Thank you for sharing.
It's been a real pleasure todelve into these topics with you
.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered, that you feel
really passionate about justgetting across today?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
passionate about just getting across today.
I think the last thing that I'dlike to mention is, when it
comes to technology not just HRtechnology, but just technology
in general there seems to be agap with women embracing it, and
so, for me and maybe this is aconversation we have at another
time, shelley, I'd love to dothat but really a push for women
to look into AI, look into someof these bleeding edge
(40:25):
technologies and begin toimplement that in their work.
For me, technology should bedemocratized, it should be for
everyone, but we're noticingthere's a gap with women's using
and embracing technology,particularly gen ai, and that's
something that I'd I'd like toto talk about how we can address
(40:46):
that gap and have women reallybe embracing this.
Otherwise, we're going to havean even more of a digital divide
thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Thank you, amelia.
It's been a pleasure getting toknow you and to go deep into
your areas of expertise.
Thank you for your generoussharing today.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Thank you, shelley, looking forward to talking next
time.
I'd like to mention is, when it comes to technology
not just HR technology, but justtechnology in general there
seems to be a gap with womenembracing it, and so, for me and
maybe this is a conversation wehave at another time, shelley,
I'd love to do that, but reallya push for women to look into AI
(00:21):
, look into some of thesebleeding edge technologies and
begin to implement that in theirwork.
For me, technology should bedemocratized, it should be for
everyone, but we're noticingthere's a gap with women's using
and embracing technology,particularly gen AI, and that's
something that I'd like to talkabout how we can address that
(00:45):
gap and have women really beembracing this.
Otherwise, we're going to havean even more of a digital divide
.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection.
I am Shelley Doyle and I'm heretoday with Amelia Salahotra,
who is a HR transformationexpert and digital
transformation lead who is basedout in the UAE.
And Amelia came onto my radarthrough some of the future of
work talks that she has beeninvolved with and in my master's
(01:18):
thesis I'm really delving intosocial wellbeing, social
connectedness and how thisimpacts employee engagement.
So in this conversation we willbe delving into some of
Amelia's experiences, past andpresent, some of the
organizations she has served,really looking at some of those
impacts during the COVIDpandemic and what she's been
(01:40):
doing since to help her, helpthe leaders and help the teams
to stay connected in a time ofsustained change.
So welcome Amelia, so wonderfulto have you here.
Thank you for making the time.
Hi, shelley, thank you so muchDelighted, and I know your
journey is kind of similar tomine in that you've lived in
(02:01):
multiple places around the world, so I don't know if you want to
start by just sharing a littleinsight about, kind of, where
you come from and where you aretoday.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I recently I told someone that I'm from a small
town with big dreams.
You know, I'm very proud ofwhere I'm from.
My roots are in deep metroDetroit, Michigan I'm from.
My roots are in deep metroDetroit, Michigan, and I find
myself here in Dubai.
I think I was always going totake a global role.
I've always sort of sought thatout.
(02:31):
I love people.
That sort of has informed mycareer in transformation and in
HR and in people development andcoming to Dubai was sort of a
natural pull for me as a placewhere I could really grow and
contribute.
I have a management consultingbackground and so from the
(02:55):
opportunity to come andcontribute and participate in
building our talent andorganization practice arose, I
grabbed it with two hands andhave been here in Dubai for the
last seven years.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Amazing and let's delve into the COVID pandemic
when I think all of our rolesand priorities changed almost
overnight.
I'd love to know kind of howyour role evolved and what you
really took by the helm to helplead your teams through this
kind of turbulent time.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah.
So during that time I was inDubai.
I was working with an Abu Dhabiclient on a massive ERP
implementation like 60,000 userimplementations are huge 60,000
user implementations or huge,several waves of releases.
(03:51):
And then COVID hit and we weresort of gearing up for it,
gearing up for it, and then wethought, wow, we've got this
massive workforce.
Our client has this massiveworkforce.
We have to equip them to beable to continue to work during
this time and this client I liketo refer to them as the
economic engine of the country.
So really, really critical work.
And so I remember having to putsome tools.
(04:13):
The organization has severaldifferent teams or group
companies, maybe they call them.
I remember I was assigned oneand had to provide a white glove
service very quickly we had aweek to do it to go and put
Microsoft Teams and thesedifferent tools on people's
desktops, their laptops andtheir mobile phones.
(04:36):
So it was a very rapid, quick,quick change of look.
We've got to equip you to beable to work from wherever you
are.
And then there was, of course,the training and the etiquette
training that accompanied that,so they'd make the most of the
tools they had.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I want to delve into this.
This word etiquette training.
What does this mean, and do weall need to have this training?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
So here's what I'll say.
So I have a managementconsulting background.
When you're in consulting,notoriously you can work from
anywhere at any time.
Whether that's good or bad, Iguess it's up for discussion.
Things like I mean it beganwith, like Skype I don't
(05:26):
remember Skype back in the daythen Zoom came out and Microsoft
Teams, so I'd always it sort ofbecame part of the way that we
worked as consultants.
But if you have always worked inan office nine to five and you
don't have that sort of remotework culture, there's a lot of
sort of nuances that, uh, thatyou need to know about it.
Uh, and these are things that Ithink, because we've gone
(05:48):
through covid, most peopleadapted to.
But I remember, uh, when we didthe etiquette courses, it was
like put yourself on mute untilyou have, uh, you know, a
contribution, raise your hand,um, join a minute beforehand so
that you've got your screen andyour audio is working, and you
(06:08):
know, start your meetings ontime, end your meetings on time
right, because we also sawduring the COVID.
So I think, even now, as wecontinue hybrid work, this
blurring between work and homeand so being really respectful
of start and end times, Ifyou're going over saying
(06:29):
something like okay, see, we'reat the top of the hour, do you
have five more minutes?
So this sort of etiquette thatsort of surrounds this new way
of working.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I love that so much.
I remember I was taking thescience of happiness
qualification at my whilst I wasat my last organization and one
of the things on there is likereally simple but just
encouraging meetings to wrap upfive or 10 minutes before the
hour, being conscious that mostpeople will have another meeting
starting on the hour.
To give people, at least youknow, a time to just have a
(07:01):
breather between meetings.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, yeah, you're really a zombie after seven,
seven hours back to back, nobreak.
But then I think also we asindividuals, or we as employees,
are also being a good peopleleader managers is being careful
of those sort of nuances.
I think something I alsolearned during that time that I
hadn't implemented before, whichI absolutely implement now, is
(07:27):
I schedule my day.
I put everything in it.
So if I'm going to eat, I'vegot a half hour block.
If I have a heads down time,I've got two heads down times,
that I have two hour blocks inmy calendar every day and I keep
that and I move it around asneeded.
But I've got that timedesignated for me to do a lot of
.
I like try.
I'm trying to do meeting duringthat time, I'm trying to stay
(07:48):
up to date on research and thenewest trends, but if I don't
have that dedicated time blocked, I just find I don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So it's okay for me to have it.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
We'll just creep into those hours as well, I would
imagine, yeah, so I've got itscheduled, I move it around, but
I make sure, sure I give myselfthat time to do that sort of
necessary thought leadership,deep thinking work.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Beautiful, beautiful, and I know from my experience,
like when I'm at my mostproductive and for me that's
mornings I really need to put myhead down, but it working for a
large organization that doesn'talways suit everybody else, and
then your mornings can just getbacked up with meetings.
So I guess, just being mindfulof your own productivity levels
(08:35):
and maybe communicating that toyour teams, to say actually I
need my block in the morning soI can get the work done, and
then let's meet when the morningso I can get the work done and
then let's meet when.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
you know, I recently saw an interview with Jeff Bezos
and I mean, this is a person ofincredible privilege to be able
to do this, but sort of aninteresting piece that he
doesn't take a meeting before 10am and he sort of has his
putter around time.
That's what he calls itputtering around and he putter
around time.
That's what he calls itputtering around and he putters
around.
He reads the newspaper, hecatches up on whatever his
information sources are, andthen he takes his first meeting
(09:10):
at 10 am.
I think most of us don't havethe luxury to do that, but it's
an interesting exercise.
He also keeps his mostimportant meetings, the deep
thinking meetings, for 10 am andagain, that's someone in an
incredible position of privilege, but it's an interesting
thought exercise yeah, I don'tknow if you saw his interview
(09:32):
with Lex Friedman, but that wasan excellent interview.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I think it's the first interview I'd ever seen of
him, and something that Ireally took from that was about
being the leader in a meeting,and he would.
People would come very preparedwith whatever the discussion
was that they were puttingforward, and then he would allow
every other person in the roomto share any thoughts or
(09:57):
feedback before him and he'd bethe last one to speak.
I thought that was powerful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That's interesting.
That to me says he's got theright team in the room.
He's like I've got all thesebrains in the room and I'm going
to let them work.
I like that a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So how is your way of working now?
I've been speaking to a fewother organizations that have
shifted to either remote work orhybrid.
First, um, how is this set up?
Where you are right now?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
uh, so hybrid, hybrid .
So three typically three daysin the office, two days, uh,
remote.
But every Friday is a greenFriday.
What does that mean?
That means everyone's remote ona friday and everyone's remote
on a friday.
You uh conservation,conservation, uh initiative.
(10:53):
So it means lights are dimmed.
The ac is a low word, um, soit's.
It also has a sustainabilityimpact as well.
So really it's it's three daysin office and you get to pick
your one wildcard day betweenMonday and Thursday.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And how does that feel, and how have the employees
responded to to that Like Iimagine it's more flexible than
pre COVID, but that's stillquite, a quite a big number of
days in the office, is that?
How's the vibe?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And I mean I'm an advocate, of course, for COVID.
I'm an advocate of doingwhatever you want.
So if you're which I think isquite controversial, maybe but
if you're judging youremployees' performance on
value-based outcomes, thenyou're totally fine with people
(11:48):
working remotely from whereverright.
So I come from that sort ofschool, that model, if we need
to meet in person.
The consulting firm I workedfor had offices all over the
world and if you're an employee,you know I was in Delhi, for
example, and I was able to scanin and go into the office there
Very cool.
So I'm used to that model.
(12:10):
So I'm always going to leantowards more freedom of location
.
But in order to do that, youhave to have a skilled workforce
and you have to have managersthat are in a position to have
difficult conversations withemployees about their
performance.
You have to have a transparentperformance and reward system
(12:31):
that everyone understands how itworks and you've got to have an
employee base that understands,that's able, that's in a
position that you have roles,are able to thrive in that right
.
In that way, I would say Ingeneral, I think that if you
have gone hybrid, it's reallytough to go back.
(12:53):
It's really tough to go backand I think that when we see
some of these, like financialinstitutions, calling their
employees back to the officefull time, you know I'm quite
critical of those choices.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
And I've just been reading a report about employee
engagement and those figures arean all time low.
That's based in the US.
Yeah, would you say, that's aglobal trend.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I can't imagine it wouldn't be.
I can't imagine it would be,because the overall message that
you risk sending to youremployees, when you've had
people work fully, remotely orin a hybrid environment and then
you call them back in office isyou risk sending the message
that we don't trust you.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
yes, and then that has a reverberation unemployment
, engagement, morale and how issocial connectedness between
between teams right now, havingkind of gone working from home,
now coming back and that is itfeeling like the teams are
(13:59):
connected as well as they werebefore, are there any tactics
that you're bringing in to helpthem really nurture connections
with each other?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
What I think about the clients that I've had here
in the GCC, and they've rangedfrom large multinational
companies, from financialinstitutions, you know, from
some of these core sectors, youknow oil and gas.
When I think about all mytelecom, when I think about all
these sort of these clients, wetalk about social connectedness.
(14:30):
The thing, the thing for methat's so important, is that
you're purposeful in it.
So I know that there'scriticism on we lose our culture
when we're remote or hybrid,but if you do, if you set up
programs, if you seek thatconnection in a purposeful,
(14:52):
surgical, intentional way,you'll be able to foster it.
Um.
I'm also someone who's a bigadvocate for new realities, so
this is what we have seen like ametaverse.
It's sort of been thisevolution right where we're
calling it metaverse, and thenweb 3, and now it's sort of new
realities, um, but really what?
(15:12):
It is?
Sort of embracing differentmediums and different ways to
interact with colleagues.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Beautiful and I'm totally on that train.
I ran a metaverse meetup groupfor about a year, a couple of
years ago now.
It was kind of when the hypewas really high before AI kind
of dominated any conversation,and I love it.
So I began taking friends intodifferent metaverse spaces and
(15:39):
and also with my meetup group,and I just discovered that it's
so much more fun to like go intothese spaces with people that
you know, because, like justgoing in and exploring these
spaces on your own and justbumping into randoms it's you
just don't really get a feel forwhat these spaces are offering.
So I'm really excited about,about this new, uh new way that
(16:03):
we can interact, um, and Ireally think this is going to be
yeah, this is going to be thefuture of work for me, I I think
that we've got some thingswrong with metaverse in the
beginning.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I'm willing to sort of say that I think that we've
got some things wrong withMetaverse in the beginning.
I'm willing to sort of say thatI think we got some things
wrong.
I think that we were takinggaming and trying to make it a
corporate environment.
So this is gaming, and thenwe're going to just take our
corporate environment in a game,and I think what we've seen, or
what I really like that we see,is this evolution of gaming
(16:38):
being gaming.
And then how do we use that tofoster connections?
And use cases that I love arethings like for training, for
HSE, so like recreatinghazardous environments, and how
you might work as a teamtogether to sort of address like
there's a fire somewhere, whatis our agency protocol?
(17:01):
How do we put that into place?
And then also doing acompetition together.
So, for example, mario Kart isa team building exercise from
wherever we are.
So letting gaming be what it isas a way to build community in
an enterprise.
So I'm liking the way that we'vesort of evolved from.
(17:22):
Okay, because I agree with you,there are these spaces and it's
like, okay, we're going to gowatch a speaker in the space and
it was cool, it was cool.
But to allow it to be what itis and then sort of reapply that
to an enterprise environment,for me is very cool.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
And really what's coming up for me is just, it's
all about shared experiences and, like, as someone that's living
away from my hometown, you know, I can catch up with friends or
family and just give them arecap of what's going on in my
life, or I can invite them toshare a live experience with me,
(18:03):
like a digital experience inthe metaverse somewhere, and
that thing gives us something totalk about with other people.
So it's like how we bring thatinto the workplace to, um, yeah,
I guess incentivize, uh,connectedness when people aren't
necessarily going to be in thesame offices as each other and
(18:24):
even in more sort of uhsimplistic so we sort of went to
this like this gaming piece Ilove to talk about, um, but even
a more simplistic way.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So I so I live in the UAE, my family lives in
Michigan and reason I have anephew who I don't get to see
enough, um, and I, and I also ama mother of a toddler, and the
other day my mother and I wehave the same book, baby beluga.
I don't know if you're RafiRafi's greatest hits.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I, I, I know I know Rafi a little bit.
He actually came to myuniversity to receive an
honorary doctorate the firstyear that I was here in Canada.
I didn't know who he was and mychildren were the only children
in the audience because it wasall just like people receiving
their certificate.
So he did like a 30 minute setto us, which was Baby beluga and
(19:19):
all of the songs.
So we got home and then we puthim on youtube and I'm now like
connected with raffi.
We're like twitter friends.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Oh wow, we have to take him in this podcast episode
.
Yes, well, the thing is so I'vegot a baby beluga copy and my
mother has a baby beluga copyand we're taking turns reading
the book to my son and then mymom to her nephew, and we're
doing it jointly together.
I read a page, she reads a page, and it was fantastic.
(19:48):
It was fantastic because we'retrying to foster those
connections, both me with mynephew, me with with my mom, but
then also between my young sonand my nephew.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So it's a great way to bridge that, because you know
this great distance that wehave yes, and I spoke to a
friend recently whose mother isin France and during COVID their
mom was giving them Frenchcooking lessons on video.
So they've, like, reallyperfected their culinary skills
(20:21):
with their mom.
Having that beautifulconnection during during, you
know what could have been a timeof disconnection, of actually
really embrace an opportunity toconnect and this is what, and
this is what is the goodness oftechnology.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
This is the goodness of technology and I think, when
we also talk about AI, forexample and I recently built out
the AI strategy and roadmap forone of the organizations I've
worked with and there's a lot offear around AI, I think totally
warranted.
I think totally warranted.
But I always give two examples.
(20:59):
One is because I'm from MetroDetroit and I talk about the
assembly line and sort of therevolution that that brought in
the industrial revolution.
It was a technology at the timethat workers had some
trepidation around, were unsureabout it.
I see AI and what the tools andthe possibilities for what it
(21:21):
can do is the same sort ofrevolution for us as well.
But I think it's reallyimportant that we focus on
building responsible tools,building responsible realities,
building responsible enterpriseswith this technology, but
keeping the goodness of it atthe core.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Beautiful.
Yeah, I was listening to apodcast the other day and it was
just saying with anything likeAI, your view is going to be so
based on your life experience.
So that's a really beautifulexample of that from Detroit,
how that's really shaped your.
You're not really livingthrough fear of it because
you've.
You can feel into an example ofhow this benefited the, the
(22:08):
wider society and I.
Really.
I really live that.
Like I, I live the idea ofpositive, how these tools can
positively impact our lives.
But I'm also very aware of therisks and, as someone who's
worked in communications for 20years, when AI, when ChatGBT
(22:30):
first became public, I wasoverusing it and I was starting
to like filter my social mediaposts through it.
I'm like what am?
I was starting to like filtermy social media posts through it
.
I'm like what am I doing?
Like I can do communications,like I think it's wonderful for
people that haven't had thatexperience and they can.
You know, it kind of levels thebar in that way.
But as someone, I don't want tolose my voice and I think
that's the concern that we'regoing to allow it to.
(22:53):
And I don't know about you, butmy email inbox is full of emails
that maybe some people wouldused to send them every week or
every couple of weeks or everymonth, and now they've suddenly
put their emails into an AI toolso they can be sent out on like
a daily basis or in every otherday, and I'm like unsubscribe,
(23:13):
I don't need.
I don't need to hear from peopleas frequently so um yeah, very,
very conscious of the, therisks, but also leaning into the
positive of like it's fabulousfor like templates and helping,
helping to just kind of lead usin the direction, to populate it
in the way that we we can andwe have honed our experience to
(23:36):
be able to do.
Yeah, I'd love to hear anyother examples of maybe where AI
is really helping the work thatyou do.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Sure.
So I think when it comes tolike, let's talk about HR use
cases in particular, so thecases that you typically hear
people get, so I'm a littlecontroversial in some of these
viewpoints, but it's becausethere's a.
I think that some things are abit of a regurgitation and so I
want to stay away from that.
So the most common HR use casesfor AI that we hear have to do
(24:13):
with talent acquisition and alot of them have to do with
screening candidates, and for me, this is very dangerous.
This is very dangerous, andwe've seen sort of this
evolution of now.
If you look at LinkedIn chats,they'll say here's ways to beat
the ATS right, the applicanttracking system, here's ways to
(24:34):
get recognized.
You hear from recruiters,especially in the Gulf.
This is a real issue in the UAE.
Part of the reason is becausethe barriers to visa entry are
so low and also it's just agreat place to live and work.
You know, the UAE is fantasticOne role, a thousand applicants
(24:55):
in three days, which is not achallenge that we see as common
in other parts of the world.
So really it's a huge issue inthe Gulf and really a big issue
in the UAE.
So then we have our talentacquisition teams leaning very
heavily in AI.
So then they say to me okay,what am I supposed to do?
(25:18):
Then you want me to go througha thousand, a thousand you know
CVs for one role.
Is that what you want me to do?
So I think the answer is youhave to use the tool judiciously
so you can use it as a way tolook and a lot of people will
apply to roles that there's justno, not even a close fit at all
right and so to use it as aweeder for them.
(25:41):
There's no fit, but you stillneed to have a human eye.
We still need that skill setthat some of our great
recruiters have of being able towinnow out and find and seek
good candidates.
So, from talent acquisitionperspective, I'm quite critical
of those use cases.
(26:01):
But what I do love is use caseswithin HR operations and I also
love it within.
I've got a great example.
We just did this at one of myclients for performance
management.
So one of the leaders came andsaid I, the methodology that
this projected client was usingfor performance management and
goal setting was a smartmethodology, so specific,
(26:23):
measurable time.
But you know, um, and said Iwant everybody, the whole
organization.
You know 11 000, you know 12000 people must have all of
their goals.
Smart um, and my colleague, whothe woman, I should say, who
was overseeing the COE forperformance management fantastic
(26:44):
, really, a leader in her fields, a great to partner with
actually was, you know, did thetimetable on it, didn't say no,
said if you want me to do it,here's how long it's going to
take for me and my team to do it.
And so I said I bet we canbuild you a tool.
I bet we can build you a toolfor that.
So I have a great relationshipalways with the IT teams,
(27:05):
because I work sort of in thechasm between I'm a translator,
so sometimes I consider myselfpart of IT, Like I think I'm
part of IT and transformationteams, and that's because you
know my background, obviously.
But I digress.
What I'm saying is let's buildher a tool.
And so we were able to buildher a tool that was then able to
(27:28):
use Gen AI to assign apercentage weightage on where a
particular goal was from a smartperspective.
So then, something that wouldhave taken her a month she was
able to run it in a couple hours, able to prioritize.
Okay, look, these person'sgoals are 60% smart.
We'll do that later, but I'vegot all these people that have
got 10 to 30% smart goals.
We need to focus on them andcourse correcting them.
(27:50):
So that's a great productivityhack from a Gen AI perspective
brilliant.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I love that, and I also just want to go back to the
1000 applicants for a rolepiece.
So obviously ATS is a thing andthey're going to be run some of
those through.
So how many of those 1000 doyou think is actually touched
and seen by a human being?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
wow, that's a great question and I should have an
answer, since I'm vocal about it, about this use case.
I can't imagine that arecruiter is looking at more
than 100, 150.
I can't imagine which is stilla lot, right, that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
And do you think that's typicalin the UAE now, like everybody
just wants a job there?
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, it's a great place.
It's a great place to live andwork.
There's a lot of opportunity.
So I think that folks arewanting to come to the UAE, to
be in the UAE and then hoping togrow in the UAE.
So it's really a unique problemto to this part of the world.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
And how about community and connection outside
of work in the UAE?
How have you found that likeintegrating into the community
there?
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, it's quite naive of me when I first came.
So someone asked me thisquestion last week how long it
took for me to acclimate, and Igave the truthful answer which
was two and a half years.
And I think by acclimate I meancompletely feel at home,
completely be able to navigatesystems to you know if there's
(29:36):
an interaction with thegovernment, know how to manage
that, uh, to feel confident inthose interactions.
Also, maybe two and a halfyears that's how long it took,
um, and I was working the wholetime right, I've had great
clients.
You know I have um, I have someclients.
There are some in particular whoare I can't name them because I
(29:58):
I think they'd be quite shy,but really without sort of that
friendship from my clients Iwould not still be here in the
UAE.
It's been that critical to helpme navigate the culture, to
have someone cheering you on inyour corner.
You know, recently actually,one of my very first clients, um
(30:21):
, when I first came here, Iactually had a, had a call with
them earlier today, quick 15minute call, how you doing um,
and so those deep relationshipshave really helped me thrive and
put roots here and how about?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I know that you're looking to get home yeah, for a
break to reconnect, and how doyou find yourself staying
connected with some of yourbeloveds back home?
Do you embrace some of thisemerging technology with people
that you know and love?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
yeah, you know, so I get, I have to.
I have to say this the the thegreatest lottery, the luckiest
thing that ever happened to mewas being born into the family I
was born into.
I have incredible parents, Ihave incredible siblings and
(31:14):
really, you know, you and I arejust talking on one here today
and it just looks like it's justme just talking on one here
today and it just looks likeit's just me, but really my
community is behind me,organizations are behind me, so
literally thousands of peoplepush me and cheer me on.
So sometimes this is everybodythat I know.
Everyone feels this.
(31:34):
Sometimes you think you're alone, it's just you, it's
insurmountable, but then thereare so many people behind me.
My, you know, my, my highschool is behind me.
My community is behind me,everywhere I've ever worked
behind me, my universities arebehind me, so, so I so I have to
remember that from all, eventhough I'm here, I'm an expat
(31:55):
there are so many people thatare cheering for me, that are
saying go, go, go, go.
So I'm really lucky to havethat.
And then the tools that I useare all the time so I've got
zoom, uh, microsoft teams,instagram, social media, tiktok,
um regularly.
I stay in touch all the time umI talk to my parents daily,
(32:20):
talk to my parents daily um so Ihave those strong social
connections um from so manypeople and and I think that that
has helped me not feel alonewhen I'm so far away.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Can you imagine, like just go back 20 years and what
was available to us?
Email, email was available tous as a communication tool.
How different the expatexperience would have been in
that way.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, I think, much lonelier.
So that's where I think it'salso really important, though,
to keep that centering on,because it's not just me that
has their community behind them.
Right, there's so everyone hasthat.
Everyone has people that standbehind you.
We do nothing alone.
We don't succeed alone, so Ithink it's a little bit of the
(33:15):
mindset that you have to have toembrace the bit of bravery to
know, even though I'm gonna gotry something new, be physically
away from those people thatthat I love, that love me, um,
but I always carry them with me.
I carry them with me, you know,and I am fortunate that we have
these tools and I am able totalk to them, but I think it's
(33:38):
also my mindset of I don't doanything alone.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
And this is kind of leaning into part of part of the
work that I do.
So I came across thisincredible theory called
Dunbar's number and the idea isthat our human brains only have
the capacity for 150 people atany one time, which, of course,
will evolve and fluctuate as wego through life and like there's
(34:05):
different spheres of intimacy.
So I actually started to mapthe people in my life last year
and this is after going throughlike a real period of
disconnection and loneliness,being here in a different
country, and I discovered thateven starting to do that process
of mapping started to help meto realize I have incredible
(34:27):
people in my life.
I have these amazing littlecommunities um dotted around the
world and I have the power toreach out to them and they, if
they have capacity in their life, they may well come back to me,
they may well not.
And this is part of the workthat I do with my clients to
really help them to map thepeople in their life and and
(34:47):
really think about who are thekey players in their life right
now.
And those key players don't allneed to live around the corner
from you, like speaking to yourparents every day.
They're your key players.
They are in that central coreof your map, and technology can
be an incredible tool, but whatI'm discovering more and more is
that social media if we're notmindful and intentional about
(35:11):
our social media use, we mightbe filling up that 150 with a
whole bunch of people that wehave never met, we will never
meet, we're not actually eveninteracting with, we're
literally just voyeuring.
Um, and then we are.
We are losing the spaciousnessin our 150 for the people that
actually really matter to us.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
So what an interesting concept, what an
interest.
I had not thought of it thatway, that if you that there are
some ways that you can, if youonly got 150.
There are ways that you canartificially fill um
unintentionally, yeah,interesting, yeah, the intention
(35:52):
I like the intentionality ofthat.
Something that I've been sayinglately is that legacies are no
longer left in monuments, insculptures, but legacies are
rather left in people.
So it's about fostering thoserelationships and those
friendships um, because I cantell you about clients I've had
(36:14):
and I can tell you aboutcolleagues I've had um, but it's
been those individualfriendships and that's what's
lasted.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And that's really like it's proven that if we are
feeling socially satisfiedeither within work or outside of
work, it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
So long as our social needs are met, we are going to
be feeling more engaged in thework that we do.
Yeah, that's, that's aninteresting concept, um, when we
talk about like burnout, and wetalk about particularly in the
consulting field, um, which issort of notorious, when I was
doing that, it was common for meto work 16, 18 hour days, um,
and I think there were sometimes I felt my existence was a
bit vapid, right, because it wasjust work, sleep, try to eat
(37:04):
something.
You know, I think for me, aturning point was when I had
stopped exercising, which issomething that really, you know,
fuels me up.
I identify as an athlete,although these last couple of
years I don't know that anybodyelse would, but I identify as an
athlete.
And so I think, when I stoppedexercising, I think that was
like OK, this is all consuming,this is all consuming.
(37:27):
And then the promotions I wasgetting, you know, in rapid
succession, I really, I really Ireally progressed quite well
and the organization made it ahuge investment in me, but I
think it was eating away at meas well the expectation probably
rose with the promotions yeah,yeah.
But the thing is it was oddbecause I loved I love working
(37:50):
hard, I love that intensity.
You know it really fuels me,but I think it was also eating
me, and so when I made thedecision to step away from
consulting and sort of seek outan industry role, really it was
a role that I couldn't refuse.
It was the opportunity to leadsomething I really wanted to
lead, make an impact in thecountry that I felt had given me
(38:13):
so much.
But there are other ways to dothat.
There are other ways to do that, and I think that some of it
was I.
I needed to step away from thatindustry for a bit.
Um, I have a deep respect forpeople that are are consultants.
I think that I will probablyreturn to management consulting
one day, or I would hope to, uh,but I, I would like to do it a
(38:35):
bit differently and maybe, maybeset, um, maybe set some more
boundaries.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
So, as we kind of start to wrap up this
conversation, I'd love to justask you what is the future of
work?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I can tell you what I would hope for.
I can tell you what I wouldhope for.
I can tell you what I wouldhope for.
I'd hope that the way that wework becomes more value-based.
It becomes less about profitsand more about people.
I hope that we're able to usetechnology for all the goodness
(39:17):
that it can provide, and I hopethat we're able to continue to
have this sort of global worldthat really respects the
individual cultures and culturalnuances that have made things
so special.
That's a bit abstract, but forme, that's what the future of
(39:39):
work, an ideal future of work,would be.
It would be people focused andculturally nuanced.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Beautiful.
Thank you for sharing.
It's been a real pleasure todelve into these topics with you
.
Is there anything that wehaven't covered, that you feel
really passionate about justgetting across today?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
passionate about just getting across today.
I think the last thing that I'dlike to mention is, when it
comes to technology not just HRtechnology, but just technology
in general there seems to be agap with women embracing it, and
so, for me and maybe this is aconversation we have at another
time, shelley, I'd love to dothat but really a push for women
to look into AI, look into someof these bleeding edge
(40:25):
technologies and begin toimplement that in their work.
For me, technology should bedemocratized, it should be for
everyone, but we're noticingthere's a gap with women's using
and embracing technology,particularly gen ai, and that's
something that I'd I'd like toto talk about how we can address
(40:46):
that gap and have women reallybe embracing this.
Otherwise, we're going to havean even more of a digital divide
thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Thank you, amelia.
It's been a pleasure getting toknow you and to go deep into
your areas of expertise.
Thank you for your generoussharing today.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Thank you, shelley, looking forward to talking next
time.
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