April 2, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Rediscovering Connection, I chat with Mark Saxby, a UK-based journalist-turned-social-media-reformer who’s on a mission to help us use technology intentionally—without letting it steal our time or joy. From his “Be More Colin” campaign to his work with kids through Positive Social, Mark shares how stepping back from screens can unlock richer relationships, better mental health, and a life lived on our terms.
We dive into:
✅ Why social media doesn’t always deliver the connection we crave—and what does
✅ How Mark turned Twitter into a tool for real-world friendships
✅ The “Be More Colin” movement: reclaiming focus at work and home
✅ Protecting kids from the addictive pull of smartphones
✅ Finding balance between personal expression and professional presence online
If you’ve ever felt glued to your phone—or wondered how to break free—this conversation offers practical, uplifting ideas to rethink your relationship with tech.
🎙️Tune in for a refreshing take on living well in a digital world.
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro: Meet Mark Saxby and his mission to rethink social media
03:15 – From journalism to social media: Mark’s journey and aha moment
07:00 – The power of Twitter for building real-life connections
11:30 – Why we overshare online—and how pulling back sparks better conversations
15:45 – “Be More Colin”: Cutting phone time to boost work and life satisfaction
20:00 – Social media’s impact on kids: Insights from Positive Social
25:30 – Setting boundaries: Tips for parents and personal phone audits
30:15 – Personal vs. professional online: Where to focus your energy
34:00 – Mark’s passion for speaking and winning people over
37:00 – Closing thoughts & how to connect with Mark
Links
Find Mark Saxby Online:
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marksaxby
Email: mark@statussocial.co.uk
Positive Social: https://positivesocial.org.uk/
---
I hope our conversation inspires you to rediscover connection in your personal or professional life.
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Love & sparkles,
✨Shelley
About Your Host
Hello you, I’m Shelley Doyle, founder of The Communiverse.
Through our 90-day program, The Social Wealth Roadmap, we empower remote and relocated leaders, founders, and creators build real-world social wealth—so they feel connected, trusted, and supported, both online and offline, no matter where they are in the world.
We also support hybrid and distributed teams, combining cutting-edge research on social well-being and social wealth with two decades in corporate communications to deliver mind-shifting talks, workshops, and programs around the world.
Find out more at TheCommuniverse.com or find me on LinkedIn.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:00):
A few years ago, I remember I met up with some
(00:02):
friends, and I'd not seen themfor years.
And I said, oh, this hashappened.
And they went, oh yeah, we know,we saw you, we saw on Facebook.
Oh, I've got this bit of news.
And we saw that on Facebook.
And I thought, I've got nothingto tell them.
Nothing to tell them.
And then from that moment on, Ithought, I'm no longer posting
on Facebook.
So when I do meet people, when Ido catch up with people, I have
loads to tell them and they haveloads to tell me because I don't
read through my newsfeed onFacebook either.
(00:23):
So I don't know what they'redoing.
And it is interesting, isn't it?
Somebody will say, Oh yeah, I'vegot a new job, but you must have
seen it on Facebook.
No?
Didn't see it?
But they just presume, becausethey post it on social media,
that everyone knows their news.
And of course, one is they'reunder the misapprehension that
suddenly everybody on, wheneveryou post on, on, on a social
network, that everyone sees yourpost who's following you, which
(00:43):
of course isn't true at all.
Plus the fact that they expecteverybody to be glued to social
media in the way that maybe theyare.
So I find it, um, yeah, I foundit much more liberating by
posting less and enjoying thosemoments around the dinner table,
as you say, uh, where you canjust have really rich
conversations and, and go intokind of more detail and more
(01:04):
stories and get across thatfeeling and that excitement in a
way that.
You know, it's only limited howyou can do that on social media.
Shelley (01:18):
Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection.
I am Shelley Doyle and I have avery special guest from the UK
with me today called Mark Saxby.
Mark is really creating amovement on social media and
it's really about how we usesocial media positively, both in
(01:41):
our professional lives and inour personal lives and even in
the lives of our children.
Um, I've been following Mark'swork for a couple of years now.
I see you popping up on LinkedInall the time, doing some great
stuff, going into schools andalso speaking to professionals
around the UK.
So Really, really excited todelve into kind of your journey
(02:03):
a bit, Mark.
I'd love to know what kind ofled you to, to this.
and then I really can't wait tojust hear a bit more about, your
current projects, the Be MoreColin, et cetera.
So welcome.
Thank you so much for making thetime to be with us today.
Mark (02:18):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to this.
Shelley (02:22):
So, um, I imagine you've had a few different walks
of your life so far.
What's really made you gravitatetowards social media being the
kind of focus of what you'retalking about these days?
Mark (02:34):
Yeah, so I was, uh, I'm a journalist by profession, spent
20 years in, uh, was innewspapers and magazines, had my
own press agency and then workedfor, um, for TV and then radio,
so finally ended up at the BBCfor 11 years and it was during
my kind of last few months atthe BBC that they trained me in
(02:55):
how to use social media to findnews stories, uh, and I just
realized that there was a reallynew.
It's a really interesting way ofbeing able to use it to build
relationships, to reach out topeople, particularly using
Twitter in the days when Twitterwas a lot nicer than X is
nowadays.
So you could have conversations,make new friends.
And I think one of the big,really interesting things for me
(03:16):
was we'd moved to our city,Derby in England, when we had
our children were about maybethree, I think our oldest was
three or four.
And we found it really quitetricky to make friends.
Working in a place where youkind of, you know, didn't really
want to be friends with peoplewho are in the, in the office
because I was their manager.
So it was quite challenging tofind new friends.
And we found that Twitter was areally good way to build
(03:37):
relationships with people andthen meet up with them in real
life.
And they've become lifelongfriends.
So that whole element of socialmedia being used truly socially,
rather than just here I am, lookat me, was just, just made me
realize how amazing it could be.
Shelley (03:53):
So intriguing and actually I do have one
connection who was a guest on mypodcast that she is called
Richard Bartlett, and he is onTwitter or X avidly today, and
he has just, he's just hired anamazing villa in Barcelona, and
(04:13):
he's just doing kind of retreatsand it's all done through
Twitter, so he's like, who wantsto come in fact he even He even
found individuals on Twitterthrough his own community to put
in like the money so he couldthen like pay for the rent for
the year.
So it's encouraging to hear thatyou found the positive way back
and actually even though itmight be searching for diamonds.
(04:37):
Actually, people are still doingthis today.
So thank you for the reminder ofthis, because I think social
media does get a bad press forthe inherent dangers.
And, you know, the time, I thinkresearch is saying that we're
spending between two and a halfand three and a half hours every
day on social media today.
(04:58):
Does that correlate with thekind of stuff that you're
seeing?
Mark (05:01):
Oh, I think it's probably more.
I mean, the average person inthe UK spend six hours a day on
their mobile phone.
Um, young people spend anaverage of eight hours a day.
Um, I would suspect that withyoung people probably most of
that eight hours is socialmedia.
So two to three hours a daycould be quite conservative for
some maybe excessive for othersI certainly don't spend that
(05:24):
amount of time on social mediaevery day Um, but I think for
some people yeah There isenormously but it's certainly
what I would say is there's toomuch time spent on social media
every day Um, I think whenyou're using it from a business
point of view, then great! Youcan grow your business through
it, and that's brilliant.
If you're on there faffingabout, wasting your time when
you could be spending time withyour family or your friends, or
(05:47):
doing something more excitinglike getting outside, then
that's not so good.
Shelley (05:52):
And I guess in correlation with those hours as
well, the research also saysthat for health and happiness,
we should be spending betweentwo and three hours in social
interaction every day.
So whether that's in person or,you know, through virtual media.
Um, so, yeah, I think whenpeople are kind of feeling the
(06:14):
impacts of disconnection andloneliness and they think, well,
I haven't got time to beconnecting with people, it's,
it's not about making more timein our life.
It's about educating anddiverting some of the time that
is maybe a little bit misspentthese days.
Mark (06:29):
Yeah, there was Professor Adam Alter did a great, great
TED talk about screens stealingour time.
And it said that, he said thatevidence shows that.
Social media is one of those, isthose, is one of the many apps
that makes us feel bad about ourlives.
It doesn't make us feel betterabout our lives.
So, you know, if you think,well, that's, that's what the
evidence shows, then why do wespend so much time?
(06:49):
Well, it's pretty obvious why wespend so much time, because it's
flippin addictive.
Um, but it's not good for us,and we're not, but often I think
we don't, I think we, as yousay, I think we think that
social media makes our, makes ushappier, but actually, it
probably doesn't for most of us.
Shelley (07:04):
Um, and I'd love to delve into one of the campaigns
you've got on the go right now,um, which is be more Colin.
And as soon as I, as soon as Iread up about this, I'm like, it
totally makes sense because mylast organization, um, when I
was living in Cardiff, one ofthe policies was no phones at
your desk.
Um, and actually.
(07:24):
That policy in itself, likegetting to my desk, it felt like
I had many more hours in my day.
Wow.
Does that, does that resonatewith some of the work that
you're doing on this Be MoreColin?
Tell us a bit more about it.
Mark (07:40):
No, absolutely.
So the research shows theaverage worker spends two hours
a day during working time.
You're doing personal things ontheir mobile when they should be
working.
So let's think about what theimplications of that well, first
of all, that's 10 hours a weeklost That's you know, nearly 500
hours a year lost toproductivity, but worse than
(08:01):
that um, if you're if you'reusing your phone all the time
that it's kind of You're thenmeaning you're on screens more,
which messes up your mentalhealth more.
It means then you don't get allthe finished work time, so you
have more, you know, the kind ofthings that you could have done
at work, then build on yourmind.
So then you're thinking aboutwork life outside of work, but
then you're also thinking aboutpersonal life inside of work.
(08:23):
So you know what it's like,you're at work and, you know,
you were in the middle ofsomething and suddenly a
WhatsApp message comes up andit's from the family group.
And it's, it's your son and he'son holiday in, uh, in Italy and
you're thinking, Oh no, I don't,I don't want to be, I don't want
to be here.
I want to be in Italy with him.
Oh, this is for, you know.
And you end up then, this whole,this whole kind of demarcation
of, of work and life becomesmore and more blurred.
(08:44):
The personal gets into your worklife, which makes you feel
unhappy, and then the work getsinto your personal life, which
makes you feel unhappy.
And then, and then because ofthat, you know, that sort of
element of being on your phonesall the time, you know, you're
seeing break times.
In the old days, people used tokind of go to the, go to a
meeting space, and you'd go andchat, and you'd have lunch
together.
Nowadays, sometimes people justgo and sit in their cars, and
they watch Netflix videos.
(09:05):
Or they do shopping, or they'rebooking holidays, and people
don't talk to each otheranymore.
So therefore then those feelingsof satisfaction that often you
get from work because you've gotgreat relationships with your
colleagues, that's not thereeither.
So it's really interesting thatwhole element of how we bring
phones into work, and ouremployers often kind of let us
do it, probably a lot of it,because they're addicted
(09:27):
themselves.
So yeah, this Be More Colin isultimately me going into
workplaces and helping people torealize that if they actually
spent less time on theirpersonal mobiles during working
times, actually that they'denjoy life more.
And the evidence is from peopleI've done Be More Colin with.
So the pilot we did, 60 percentof people said their mental
(09:48):
health and their jobsatisfaction had increased since
putting into place the Be MoreColin.
Activities, which is great statsand very, very, very
encouraging.
And the other thing as well, thegood thing about the whole, the
whole thing about tackling ourphone use at work, it rebounds
and helps us at home.
Because when you realizeactually you don't want to be on
(10:09):
your phone as much at work, thenactually you're going to be more
present in the moment whenyou're at home with your
children, with your wife, withyour husband, with your partner.
So actually then you end upgetting this kind of freedom
away from your device.
So the device becomes somethingthat's valuable to you.
Rather than something thatactually you feel like you need
to be looking at all the time.
So I've got my phone use downto, on good days, and it's not
(10:31):
always good, but on good daysdown to less than half an hour a
day.
So this weekend, both my timeswere under half an hour a day.
And I tell you what, I got somuch more done.
I was, I was happier.
It was, it was, it was a greatweekend because I wasn't glued
to my phone screen.
Shelley (10:46):
That's so encouraging.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And, um, a few things are comingup for me.
I guess one thing, the name, um,the name is very striking and
very memorable.
How did you come up with that?
Mark (10:59):
So when I was working at the BBC, there was a colleague
of mine who was promoted tobeing the breakfast producer.
Uh, so the breakfast producer isa person who the night before
the radio show would geteverything ready.
So he'd work a later shift, likestarting at one PM and then
finishing about 9 PM.
And, uh, and there's a guy whowas put into this role, and, uh,
and his name was Colin.
And, uh, he said to me, um, um,I don't like the shift mark
(11:23):
because I never get away ontime.
And I thought, okay, well, I'llwatch him and just see what,
what's going on.
And I noticed that what wouldhappen is he'd be typing away,
writing a script, and then bing!It'd be MSN Messenger.
We'll pop him on his computer.
So he'd look at the MSNMessenger, and he'd type again,
and then he'd go back to hiswork and carry on typing again,
and bing! Another message.
And it kind of went on.
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing,bing, bing.
(11:43):
It was just crazy.
And I just said to him, that'sthe problem.
If you stop looking at MSNMessenger, you'll get away on
time.
And he was a bit doubtful, buthe agreed to try it.
And the next morning he walkedin, he said, Mark, it worked! I
got away on time! So really,ultimately, what I say to people
is, you need to be more Colin.
Be inspired by Colin.
He made a change, and so canyou.
Shelley (12:05):
And something else that's coming up Mark, and I
love that story by the way, um,it is just about us feeling the
need, because we can, because wecan message and update, feeling
the need to, you know, ifsomething great happens, rather
than Setting an intention andcreating a small event, whether
(12:25):
that's physical or virtual ifyour people aren't necessarily
around you and then likecelebrating your win with your
people in a way that you canactually feel the like
celebration between you, we'remuch more inclined to just like
send a quick message and thenit's like, Oh, well done.
It's like, physiologically, arewe missing that?
(12:46):
We're not celebrating ourselves,you know, and I guess the other
side, the other side of thatequation is also when, you know,
bad things do and invariablyhappen in our lives.
Again, are we, actually lettingthe important people know about
it in a way that's going toserve us so they can actually
support us or are they justsending a message maybe even
(13:09):
during work time and then you'renot even able to take that on
board.
So I guess us always having theavailability to, to message and
connect with people is maybetaking away from actually we
could be talking about this overthe dinner table because we
haven't had those exchangesduring work time.
Mark (13:28):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good point.
A few years ago, I remember Imet up with some friends, and
I'd not seen them for years.
And I said, oh, this hashappened.
And they went, oh yeah, we know,we saw you, we saw on Facebook.
Oh, I've got this bit of news.
And we saw that on Facebook.
And I thought, I've got nothingto tell them.
Nothing to tell them.
And I thought, and then fromthat moment on, I thought, I'm
no longer posting on Facebook.
So.
(13:48):
What I only use Facebook for nowis ultimately for memories.
So I, when I do post, I post toa selected group of people,
about three people, which islike my dad, uh, my son, uh, and
my wife.
And now I'm more like inevitablymy wife and my son are probably
going to be with me anyway, atleast my wife is.
So, but it's more, so then theyonly get seen by a very small
number.
Uh, but then I've got it onFacebook memories to go back to
(14:09):
when I want to.
So when I do meet people, when Ido catch up with people, I have
loads to tell them and they haveloads to tell me because I don't
read through my newsfeed onFacebook either.
So I don't know what they'redoing.
And it is interesting, isn't it?
Somebody will say, uh, you know,you'll meet somebody and they'll
say, uh, Oh yeah, I've got a newjob, but you must, you must
have, you must have seen it onFacebook.
No?
Didn't see it?
But they just presume, becausethey post it on social media,
(14:31):
that everyone knows their news.
And of course, one is they'reunder the misapprehension that
suddenly everybody on, wheneveryou post on, on, on a social
network, that everyone sees yourpost who's following you, which
of course isn't true at all.
Plus the fact that they expecteverybody to be glued to social
media in the way that maybe theyare.
So I find it, um, yeah, I foundit much more liberating by
posting less and enjoying thosemoments around the dinner table,
(14:54):
as you say, uh, where you canjust have really rich
conversations and, and go intokind of more detail and more
stories and get across thatfeeling and that excitement in a
way that.
You know, it's only limited howyou can do that on social media.
Shelley (15:10):
Yeah, totally resonate.
Something that's coming up forme is about the different
generations.
Um, because I remember whenFacebook first launched and for
me it was perfect timing.
I had, uh, I just completeduniversity up in Leeds.
I'd done a student exchange toAustralia as well.
So I had a whole bunch ofAustralian friends, American
(15:32):
friends, Canadian friends,friends from up North.
That suddenly I was able toupdate and keep updated.
And obviously family memberskind of trickled in a bit
slowly.
Um, so in its heyday, whenFacebook first launched, like it
was very, very exciting for mepersonally.
I don't know how your initialexperience was.
(15:52):
And I guess because there wasonly that one, like if you
posted, most people did.
see it.
And there was much lessadvertising.
And I guess the algorithm wasless sophisticated.
So actually it probably did showyou to all of your people.
Whereas now, obviously there'sso many different platforms that
you can choose to be on.
So, you know, it's hit and missif you're, if you're going to be
(16:15):
able to get in front of thepeople that you want to see it.
But have you seen bearing inmind, I know you're doing.
some talks in schools and maybewe can delve into that a bit
deeper.
But have you seen a differentgeneration?
Because I'm also thinking aboutlike my, my parents age, so say
mid, mid 60s.
Um, and actually they still seemfairly excited about Facebook
(16:38):
and they still share a lot andthey still get a lot of
engagement from their friendsand family.
on Facebook.
Have you, have you, do you wantto talk through something on
generations?
Mark (16:49):
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because the, the fastest growingaudience on Facebook for a long
time has been all the oldergeneration.
And, uh, some will overshare,some will never post.
Um, but it's interesting aswell, because you can then look
at the younger generation andactually for the younger
generation.
Sharing is not something they doas often as maybe, maybe, you
(17:10):
know, the people who were aroundwhen Facebook first launched.
They're more about messaging.
Through Instagram or, you know,there's obviously a lot of,
there's a lot of still peopleposting occasionally on TikTok
or things like that.
And there are some people whoare very prolific, but actually
the majority of people justwatch.
They just scroll.
they don't do an awful lot ofposting.
Um, whether that's because Well,who knows what their reasons is,
(17:32):
I suppose.
Do they feel like they've gotanything to contribute?
I mean, you see that when I,when I work with businesses
through, through the companystatus social that some
businesses don't think they'vegot anything to say.
They probably have, they justdon't think they have, so I, so
I suppose that would kind ofmake sense as to why maybe
sometimes some older people postbecause When you get older in
life, often you've, you're moreopinionated, you feel like
(17:53):
you've got more wisdom to share,you've got more of a right to
say what's on your mind, youdon't really care what others
think about you, so thereforethen you post more to maybe a
younger person who's maybe alittle bit more insecure.
Shelley (18:05):
And something else that's coming up is all about
the personal versusprofessional, so I I launched a
business, um, a while back and Icreated a new kind of business
Facebook page, businessInstagram page.
So now I have like so manydifferent spaces and that was
(18:25):
quite intentional because Iwanted to invite people from my
personal networks to, if theywanted to engage with my
professional side.
They could then follow myprofessional Facebook book or
Instagram.
And then I've kind of kept mypersonal pages for personal
posts, which again, they're veryinfrequent.
(18:46):
I do occasionally send somethingout.
Um, have you found something interms of working with businesses
and like staying professionaland then You know, speaking to
individuals and, you know,finding that neat boundary
between your personal andprofessional posts.
Mark (19:04):
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because you can, you mentionedthere are quite a few different
things you set up there.
And my, one of the things, I'm aprofessional speaker, and one of
the things I talk about in mykeynote is, is you've got to be
excellent.
So it's therefore if you'regoing to, because if you're not
excellent, then the algorithmswon't show your posts to people.
So to be excellent reallyprobably involves doing a whole
(19:27):
lot less social media, but doingit really well.
So for instance, with me, mymain platform is LinkedIn.
So therefore all my efforts.
Suspense on LinkedIn, I postvery, very rarely on Instagram,
very, very rarely on X and, and,uh, just one hardly at all on
Facebook, but certainly in termsof from a business point of view
the reason where I get most ofmy success is from my personal
(19:48):
LinkedIn page, not the companypage because people buy from
people.
So actually we can think, okay,we need to have business pages
on all the networks, but really,do we need to have.
Just maybe one business page andmaybe it's more coming from a
personal side on one networkbecause that's when I'm gonna
get my results from.
It's about understanding thetarget audience, isn't it?
Where's my target audience andhow am I gonna reach out to
(20:09):
them?
And yes, we can and you mighthave elements of your target
audience on Instagram, onTikTok, on whatever.
But actually, is that really thebest place to get them where you
can be consistently excellent?
All the time.
So therefore a lot of people, Isay to businesses, you need to
stop dancing on TikTok.
You need to stop trying to getto younger people on Instagram
because you've not got thecontent.
(20:29):
You've got nothing to say.
You're not doing it properly.
Your posts are rubbish.
You know, your writing's awful.
Just focus on one network and doit really well.
And if you really focus on doingone network and get, and just,
you know, do one post a week.
So look, a great example of thatis on my LinkedIn profile.
So if I, if I look back on thelast seven days analytics, I've
only written two posts.
Yeah, I have 60, 6 0 posts stillbeing seen on newsfeeds of
(20:55):
people, ranging back over morethan a year old, because they're
so good posts that they're stillbeing seen on LinkedIn more than
a year later.
In fact, my longest serving one,there was one post I wrote 11
years ago that's still gettingengagement.
Shelley (21:10):
Amazing.
Yeah.
So good.
Less is more.
Less is more.
I'm really knowing where you'recomfortable as well.
And one of the things that Ispeak about, um, is social
wealth.
Um, and there's, there's threepillars of social wealth.
One of them being personalexpression.
(21:31):
And then solidarity andrelational interest.
So maybe on LinkedIn, you feelreally comfortable expressing
yourself.
Do you feel the solidarity fromyour LinkedIn community?
Maybe, maybe you find solidaritymore on Facebook because that's
(21:51):
your personal.
connections of family andfriends.
And it's just being aware ofthis so we can better understand
kind of ourselves and what'sserving us.
Cause like you said, we'rewasting a lot of time.
Um, and social media doesn'thave to be bad.
But if we can kind of do ouraudit to understand where we're
(22:13):
able to express ourselves, wherewe feel the solidarity and where
we feel that people are actuallygenuinely interested in us.
And we're kind of genuinelyinterested in the people that
we're shown.
And if we go, actually, I don't,I'm not interested in any of
these posts.
It's like, okay, then maybe youneed to kind of clean up your
channels.
So you're seeing the type ofpeople that you want to be
(22:33):
seeing.
You're influenced by theinfluences that you choose to be
influenced by.
Mark (22:39):
It's interesting isn't it?
I was thinking there as you weretalking that, that I talk a lot
about objectives, you know, whenit comes to when we do our
social media training workshops,I'll say, right, okay, what's
your company objectives, yourbigger company objectives, and
then let's move them across tosocial media to see if they can
be achieved.
But I also wonder as wellwhether actually there are
personal objectives.
You know, what's my personal,why am I on social media?
(23:02):
Am I on there to make friends?
Am I on there to change lives?
Am I on there to make adifference?
Am I on there to try andpersuade people to change their.
political thoughts, and thenusing social media like that.
So there's a real purpose behindit rather than just being on it
just because it's there.
And actually, if you then haveobjectives, and then you try and
use social media to achieve yourobjectives, and actually the
(23:24):
satisfaction you'll get if youcan achieve your objectives is
going to be so much bigger thanif you just go on there and have
no kind of real.
You know, you're just on therefor just for no real purpose and
I know that almost sounds a bitlike You know almost like you
know a bit too.
I don't know maybe cynical butactually why why are we you
know?
What if our objective is to getmore friends then actually maybe
(23:46):
it's not just being on socialmedia if our objective is to
change the political climate,then maybe we should also go and
join a political party.
You know, so then you, then youstart looking actually, is, is
social media just going toachieve my objectives, or can it
even really achieve myobjectives?
Or can I do something better?
Maybe I should be getting intopolitics.
You know, so, so whatever itmight be, but what's your
objectives in life?
What's your purpose in life?
(24:08):
And then finding out whethersocial media can help you
achieve the purpose.
And it, and if it can, if itcan, then great.
Use it strategically.
And if it can't Then go and dosomething else.
Shelley (24:18):
I really hope the current political climate does
inspire some brave souls to wantto get into politics.
I feel like we need some reallygood politicians.
Um, so I know there's a lot ofdifferent strands to what you're
doing right now, Mark, and I'mso excited to, to like, learn a
bit more about these and likewhere you really feel called.
(24:41):
Appreciate that.
right now.
I know there's a lot ofdifferent movements going on in
terms of protecting children.
Are you feeling like, where areyou feeling called to really
serve and, and get your messageout there?
Mark (24:53):
Yeah.
So my, um, my motto in life isbased around what Jesus said in
John 10, 10.
He said, I've come to give lifeand life in all its abundance.
And I don't want to live ahumdrum life.
I want to enjoy life.
And I don't want others to havea humdrum life.
I don't want others to wastetheir lives.
There's a great life out thereto be had, but we need to make
sure that we're not lettingthings get in the way.
(25:14):
So when, why we created acharity called Positive Social,
um, we started doing the pilot10 years ago and then really
launched it in anger in the lasttwo years.
We've got in front of more than10, 000 children, ultimately
helping them make betterdecisions about how they use
social media.
So firstly, are they Are theyusing it appropriately?
Are they behaving, um, in a goodway towards other children?
(25:36):
Um, are they damaging theirfuture?
Um, we talk about the privacysettings and making sure they're
being safe on there.
Um, but then we also talk aboutthe whole level of how the
social networks were designed tobe addictive and who do they
want to be in control of theirlives, them or the social
network owners.
And then finally we talk aboutAre you living your best days,
or are you ruining your bestdays by spending your life
(25:58):
behind a phone screen?
And what's really interestingis, is that even though they're
children and people think, Oh,children, they won't, they won't
change, they're addicted, theywant to be on their phones all
the time.
They don't.
When we, when we give thempermission to think in a
different way, they make amazingcommitments, such as I'm going
to leave Instagram because it's,it's making me feel sad, or I'm
leaving TikTok because it'swashing my mind.
(26:18):
Or I'm, I'm going to, I'm goingto leave WhatsApp groups where I
recognise I'm the one bullyingother kids.
Or I'm going to spend more timewith my mum and recognise
they're more important.
Or I'm going to start doing morepainting.
Or I'm going to play footballwith my mates.
Or I'm not going to take myphone to bed with me anymore.
And, you know, these arecommitments made by 11 and 12
year olds and younger as well.
Because they recognise thatactually life is more fun when
(26:40):
you're not always tied to amobile phone.
So I, I think that's amazing,and I, and I, and I love, and I,
then part of the reason why Idid Be More Colin was because I
remember one of the childrensaying to me, Yeah, but, sir, if
I go home and do this, my mumand dad are still on their phone
all the time.
So Be More Colin gets into theworkplace and helps parents make
the better decisions.
But really, I'd like to justlike People, I'm not, whether
(27:02):
it's going to change, whetherthe culture is going to change
and people are going to realizethat, that the mobile phones are
becoming just, just tooobsessive.
I mean, when you go to thetoilets and there's a man there
weeing with, with his, with hisphone in his hand, it's just
not, it's not, this is not theway life should be made.
It shouldn't be like this,should it really?
Shelley (27:20):
Oh my goodness, that is quite a vision.
And in terms of ages, you spokeabout some quite young children
there, even in the context oftaking their phones to the
bedroom, and that's quiteastonishing for me.
I'm, I'm living on VancouverIsland and in Canada.
(27:43):
Um, so some of my daughter'seight, um, some of her friends
do have devices.
Um, mainly if they've beenhanded down, you know, a parent
gets an upgrade and then theynaturally just get the.
the old one.
Um, I, we don't really want ourdaughter to have one until she's
at least 12.
I wonder what the current kindof recommended, are you hearing
(28:06):
like the kind of age thatchildren should be entrusted
with a device?
Mark (28:11):
Well, I think it's about the difference between a dumb
phone and a smartphone.
So, uh, my, my 11 year old.
Um, it's going to be going to,uh, secondary school, high
school, uh, next, in September.
And she, what we're going to do,so with an iPhone, you can turn
an iPhone into a dumb phone,ultimately remove all the smart
things, apart from what you wantto have on it, and it just
becomes, so it still looks likean iPhone, but actually it
(28:33):
doesn't have all the things onit that actually is going to get
in their way.
So there'll be no Snapchat onthere, there'll be no, there'll
be no WhatsApp.
She can text, she can call, shecan listen to Spotify, but
that's it.
And, and I, I think that, forme, is a wise move.
Um, I know even in, in the ageshe is now, I think she's the
only one in her class not tohave a mobile phone.
(28:53):
Um, and she walks home fromschool.
We have her an Apple AirTag, sowe can see where she is if she
gets lost, or not she's ever gotlost, or we don't, or she's late
back from the park, whatever itmight be.
But I don't think she needsanything more than that.
And she recognizes she doesn'twant anything more than that
because she's seen the issuesthat's happened in her class
with her classmates doing thingsthat aren't right on social
(29:15):
media or on their phones.
So the more we can resist thetemptation to let our children
have smartphones, the better.
I mean, there's some, I mean,one bit of a shocking research
is that children who spend anexcessive amount of time on
their mobile phones it resultsin them having, affecting the
pre cortal, uh, pre, uh,prefrontal, the, the, I've
(29:36):
forgotten the name, the frontpart of the brain! Uh,
Shelley (29:39):
prefrontal cortex.
Mark (29:41):
Cortex! That's the one! Thank you Shelly.
So it damages that part of thebrain, which means then as they
get older they're more likely toget stressed, depressed,
anxious, sleep deprived, itaffects their long term memory,
um, children, girls who spendTeenage girls who spend two to
three hours a day on theirphones are more likely to take
their own lives.
Um, there was a study out thatshowed that, um, if you spend
(30:03):
more than five hours a day on,on social media, you're going to
be 50 percent worse at mathsthan, than other children.
There's some, there's loads andloads of great information out
there.
And it just shows that childrenare not ready to spend a lot of
time on their phones when, when,when they're young and, and
actually as brains keep ondeveloping into teenage years,
(30:25):
surely it's just not a good ideato let any child to be on their
phone.
So little things that we do,because we do parent sessions as
well.
And, uh, and I'll say to themthings like, have a, have a ban
on, on devices upstairs.
You know, having any childhaving a device on their own for
long periods of time, it's just.
Could be a recipe for disaster.
And we have like a basket in ourkitchen where all the phones go,
so we're not carrying themaround the house everywhere we
(30:46):
go.
We have no, no phones at thedinner table.
We go, we go away.
I say, right, no social mediaduring our, during our holiday
You know, there's just littlethings that you can do as
parents.
But I think the key thing I findis that parents think they need
to be there, need to be friendswith their children.
Well, we're not, we're parentsand we can't, you know, parents
(31:07):
need to make good decisions,even if they are very unpopular
with our children and, and we,and they, they will thank us in
the future.
My, my, my now 20 year oldthanked me that we didn't allow
him to have um, social mediatill he was 13, um, because he
recognized what, what a mess itcaused to his, to his friends.
Shelley (31:26):
Thank you so much, so much here.
And I've just been recommended abook which I've just started
listening to the audio of calledHow to Be the Grown Up.
Mark (31:35):
Oh, that sounds interesting.
Shelley (31:37):
Yeah, and it was a teacher's recommended it to me,
a friend, a friend teacher, notlike a teacher from my kid's
school.
Like, come on, be the grown uphere.
Um, I'm just wondering ifthere's anything that we haven't
covered here today in terms ofthe different facets of what
you're working in and also likethe passions that you have.
(31:58):
If there's anything that wehaven't yet touched on today
that you think, I can't leavethis conversation without
letting, letting these listenersknow that I'm also into this.
Mark (32:08):
Wow what else I mean one of the things i'm very
passionate about is umprofessional speaking So I
joined the professional speakingassociation as an american
equivalent as well and acanadian equivalent and uh Just,
uh, giving you that confidenceto stand up in front of other
people has been really exciting.
You know, I've been speaking fora long time, you know, I speak
(32:31):
in church.
I still do occasionally speak inchurch.
I would, and then I would, whenwe started the business, I would
do talks.
But then, I think it's like, oneof the things I'm not very good
at is investing in myself.
You know, I end up kind oftaking shortcuts, thinking, I
don't know, is it, you know, Ihaven't got the time, I don't
want to spend the budget.
But actually, this is one of thefirst things I've actually
invested in myself.
(32:52):
Going on to, you go on to thesemonthly meetings, you see great
speakers, um, talk, you learnfrom how they do it.
And you then, just putting itinto practice has been just, and
seeing, seeing how.
We can develop the speakers,which gives us more confidence
in the workplace if you've gotto give a talk at work or if or
if you're, uh, you know, you'vegot to try and win people over.
(33:13):
So, you know, obviously, as aperson with a charity, I'm going
to be speaking at a few charityengagements coming up and I've
got to be able to talk about thecharity in a way that's dynamic
and win people over.
Um, that kind of level of, ofincreasing your confidence is
really, really good.
So I'd encourage anybody who'sthinking, actually I need to
speak more to find, uh, find anorganization like that.
(33:33):
Because I think they are sogood.
It's so good.
I mean, they say, don't they?
Is it professional?
Public speaking is the thingthat terrifies people more than
anything else in life?
Well, I'll tell you what, I loveit.
Love it.
Shelley (33:46):
Thank you for sharing.
I know Toastmasters is alsoanother one that's global.
Um, I've attended a few of thoseand actually my father used to,
um, have a, have a cardealership in New Zealand and he
said the best sales guys.
were the ones that went toToastmasters and they got that
experience of speaking in publicand yeah, pushing your comfort
(34:07):
zones.
Mark (34:08):
Yeah.
I think it's because it's one ofthe things that I've goes across
all the things I do is aboutwinning people over.
So there's a thing calledstrength finders that did years
ago.
And one of the things that keptit identified for me with my, as
my top skill was, was calledwinning others over.
And I find that when you, theway, the way you win others over
is by understanding them first.
So, you know, when I, when I gointo schools, I win over the
(34:30):
children whatever age rangebecause I understand how
children think, even though I'mwell beyond school children age.
When I'm in business, when I,when I train people in how to
use social media, it's notabout, I don't train people how
to use social media, although Ido, I train people how to use
social media to win others over.
And I think that whole thing ofunderstanding people, others
first, understanding wherethey're coming from, what their
(34:51):
motivations are, it just worksso well across all areas of
life.
You know, in your personal life,you listen more, you engage
more, you, you, you get enrichedmore by other people's stories.
There is, there's somethingthere when you listen first, and
then you can win people over.
And I think that's a, again, oneof those key things I think as a
(35:12):
professional speaker, when youunderstand what the target
audience want, or the audiencewants rather, that actually you
can just do amazing things.
Shelley (35:21):
Yeah.
And I guess that's the idea ofwinning someone over.
the pillars of social wealth,it's really speaking to
relational interest andsolidarity.
So you want to be able toinspire their relational
interest and in turn, they'regoing to then give you the
solidarity that you're, thatyou're wanting.
Mark (35:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like me as a Christian, youknow, I, I, I don't feel that,
you know, I need to convertpeople, but I do, I do think
it's important for people tomake a choice.
So therefore then actually beingable to.
Uh, explain things in a waywhich you know will resonate
with others.
That's, that's a really, reallygood way of doing it.
And if you do it with love andyou do it without actually, you
(36:02):
know, without judging people,again, it can be really
powerful.
And I think, again, that goesfor everything in life, doesn't
it?
If you can talk to somebodywithout judging them, and
you're, you respect theirdecision, but actually you also
understand why you're sayingwhat you're saying, and you've
thought about it properly.
There's a power in that, ineverything, in everything we do.
Shelley (36:20):
All about setting the intention, right?
We set the intention from aplace of love and a place of
positivity, um, then we're ontosomething that's going to be a
win win.
Mark (36:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, although I haven't, Ihaven't actually, one of the
things I have failed in, I'vegot to confess Shelley, I've
never, I've never actuallysucceeded in my campaign to rid
the world of the world's mostevil foodstuff, quiche.
Um, I've been running a campaignnow, Christians Against Quiche,
for the best part of 20 years.
Although I got on internationalradio and TV, unfortunately it's
(36:56):
never been banned by the Pope orthe Archbishop of Canterbury.
So, uh, I mean, there you
Shelley (37:01):
got against quiche?
A good quiche Lorraine?
Mark (37:04):
Sorry.
The what?
A good Lorraine.
A good, a good key.
Lorraine.
I'm afraid that's an oxymoron.
uh, there is a thing of a goodkey.
Sure.
As we call in our flight, in ourhouse, vomit in Alan Case um,
it's the most evil food stuffknown to man.
It, it came because, um, whatwould happen is whenever there
was concern, any kind of kind ofchurch bring in share.
(37:26):
Busy families would pop intotheir local corner shop on the
way to church, grab a cheapquiche from the, from the nearby
fridge shelves, and you'd get tochurch, and then you get to the
bring and share lunch, and allyou would have is quiche! And I
just thought, right, this is it.
I'm going to launch a campaign.
So I launched Christians AgainstQuiche.
My campaign one day is to, myplan is to, you know, travel
(37:46):
through Europe, go throughLorraine, and find out why on
earth they invented quiche.
And then end up at the Vatican,and the Vatican, I'll kiss his
ring, and he'll say, he'll say,I will add no more quiche, and
that'll be it.
That's my worst Pope impressionever, by the way.
I have no idea whether that washis accent.
Shelley (38:02):
Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure.
I wish you every success, mainlywith your Be More Colin
campaign.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm behind that one a little bitmore.
Um, no, it's been such apleasure to learn a bit more
about you, your work.
I'll make sure we include all ofyour links.
Is there kind of one place thatyou, you would prefer that
people come find you?
Is that LinkedIn?
Mark (38:22):
Yeah, LinkedIn's my, my favorite one, but, um, yeah,
feel free to, to email me atMark at, uh, statussocial.
co.
uk or, or through the PositiveSocial website, um,
positivesocial.
org.
uk.
Um, you can get me in lots of,lots of different places, but
Mark's actually on, on, on asearch on Google on, I come up
pretty highly with my LinkedInprofile, so it's a good way to
(38:42):
find me.
A few years ago, I remember I met up with some
(00:02):
friends, and I'd not seen themfor years.
And I said, oh, this hashappened.
And they went, oh yeah, we know,we saw you, we saw on Facebook.
Oh, I've got this bit of news.
And we saw that on Facebook.
And I thought, I've got nothingto tell them.
Nothing to tell them.
And then from that moment on, Ithought, I'm no longer posting
on Facebook.
So when I do meet people, when Ido catch up with people, I have
loads to tell them and they haveloads to tell me because I don't
read through my newsfeed onFacebook either.
(00:23):
So I don't know what they'redoing.
And it is interesting, isn't it?
Somebody will say, Oh yeah, I'vegot a new job, but you must have
seen it on Facebook.
No?
Didn't see it?
But they just presume, becausethey post it on social media,
that everyone knows their news.
And of course, one is they'reunder the misapprehension that
suddenly everybody on, wheneveryou post on, on, on a social
network, that everyone sees yourpost who's following you, which
(00:43):
of course isn't true at all.
Plus the fact that they expecteverybody to be glued to social
media in the way that maybe theyare.
So I find it, um, yeah, I foundit much more liberating by
posting less and enjoying thosemoments around the dinner table,
as you say, uh, where you canjust have really rich
conversations and, and go intokind of more detail and more
(01:04):
stories and get across thatfeeling and that excitement in a
way that.
You know, it's only limited howyou can do that on social media.
Shelley (01:18):
Hello and welcome to Rediscovering Connection.
I am Shelley Doyle and I have avery special guest from the UK
with me today called Mark Saxby.
Mark is really creating amovement on social media and
it's really about how we usesocial media positively, both in
(01:41):
our professional lives and inour personal lives and even in
the lives of our children.
Um, I've been following Mark'swork for a couple of years now.
I see you popping up on LinkedInall the time, doing some great
stuff, going into schools andalso speaking to professionals
around the UK.
So Really, really excited todelve into kind of your journey
(02:03):
a bit, Mark.
I'd love to know what kind ofled you to, to this.
and then I really can't wait tojust hear a bit more about, your
current projects, the Be MoreColin, et cetera.
So welcome.
Thank you so much for making thetime to be with us today.
Mark (02:18):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
I'm looking forward to this.
Shelley (02:22):
So, um, I imagine you've had a few different walks
of your life so far.
What's really made you gravitatetowards social media being the
kind of focus of what you'retalking about these days?
Mark (02:34):
Yeah, so I was, uh, I'm a journalist by profession, spent
20 years in, uh, was innewspapers and magazines, had my
own press agency and then workedfor, um, for TV and then radio,
so finally ended up at the BBCfor 11 years and it was during
my kind of last few months atthe BBC that they trained me in
(02:55):
how to use social media to findnews stories, uh, and I just
realized that there was a reallynew.
It's a really interesting way ofbeing able to use it to build
relationships, to reach out topeople, particularly using
Twitter in the days when Twitterwas a lot nicer than X is
nowadays.
So you could have conversations,make new friends.
And I think one of the big,really interesting things for me
(03:16):
was we'd moved to our city,Derby in England, when we had
our children were about maybethree, I think our oldest was
three or four.
And we found it really quitetricky to make friends.
Working in a place where youkind of, you know, didn't really
want to be friends with peoplewho are in the, in the office
because I was their manager.
So it was quite challenging tofind new friends.
And we found that Twitter was areally good way to build
(03:37):
relationships with people andthen meet up with them in real
life.
And they've become lifelongfriends.
So that whole element of socialmedia being used truly socially,
rather than just here I am, lookat me, was just, just made me
realize how amazing it could be.
Shelley (03:53):
So intriguing and actually I do have one
connection who was a guest on mypodcast that she is called
Richard Bartlett, and he is onTwitter or X avidly today, and
he has just, he's just hired anamazing villa in Barcelona, and
(04:13):
he's just doing kind of retreatsand it's all done through
Twitter, so he's like, who wantsto come in fact he even He even
found individuals on Twitterthrough his own community to put
in like the money so he couldthen like pay for the rent for
the year.
So it's encouraging to hear thatyou found the positive way back
and actually even though itmight be searching for diamonds.
(04:37):
Actually, people are still doingthis today.
So thank you for the reminder ofthis, because I think social
media does get a bad press forthe inherent dangers.
And, you know, the time, I thinkresearch is saying that we're
spending between two and a halfand three and a half hours every
day on social media today.
(04:58):
Does that correlate with thekind of stuff that you're
seeing?
Mark (05:01):
Oh, I think it's probably more.
I mean, the average person inthe UK spend six hours a day on
their mobile phone.
Um, young people spend anaverage of eight hours a day.
Um, I would suspect that withyoung people probably most of
that eight hours is socialmedia.
So two to three hours a daycould be quite conservative for
some maybe excessive for othersI certainly don't spend that
(05:24):
amount of time on social mediaevery day Um, but I think for
some people yeah There isenormously but it's certainly
what I would say is there's toomuch time spent on social media
every day Um, I think whenyou're using it from a business
point of view, then great! Youcan grow your business through
it, and that's brilliant.
If you're on there faffingabout, wasting your time when
you could be spending time withyour family or your friends, or
(05:47):
doing something more excitinglike getting outside, then
that's not so good.
Shelley (05:52):
And I guess in correlation with those hours as
well, the research also saysthat for health and happiness,
we should be spending betweentwo and three hours in social
interaction every day.
So whether that's in person or,you know, through virtual media.
Um, so, yeah, I think whenpeople are kind of feeling the
(06:14):
impacts of disconnection andloneliness and they think, well,
I haven't got time to beconnecting with people, it's,
it's not about making more timein our life.
It's about educating anddiverting some of the time that
is maybe a little bit misspentthese days.
Mark (06:29):
Yeah, there was Professor Adam Alter did a great, great
TED talk about screens stealingour time.
And it said that, he said thatevidence shows that.
Social media is one of those, isthose, is one of the many apps
that makes us feel bad about ourlives.
It doesn't make us feel betterabout our lives.
So, you know, if you think,well, that's, that's what the
evidence shows, then why do wespend so much time?
(06:49):
Well, it's pretty obvious why wespend so much time, because it's
flippin addictive.
Um, but it's not good for us,and we're not, but often I think
we don't, I think we, as yousay, I think we think that
social media makes our, makes ushappier, but actually, it
probably doesn't for most of us.
Shelley (07:04):
Um, and I'd love to delve into one of the campaigns
you've got on the go right now,um, which is be more Colin.
And as soon as I, as soon as Iread up about this, I'm like, it
totally makes sense because mylast organization, um, when I
was living in Cardiff, one ofthe policies was no phones at
your desk.
Um, and actually.
(07:24):
That policy in itself, likegetting to my desk, it felt like
I had many more hours in my day.
Wow.
Does that, does that resonatewith some of the work that
you're doing on this Be MoreColin?
Tell us a bit more about it.
Mark (07:40):
No, absolutely.
So the research shows theaverage worker spends two hours
a day during working time.
You're doing personal things ontheir mobile when they should be
working.
So let's think about what theimplications of that well, first
of all, that's 10 hours a weeklost That's you know, nearly 500
hours a year lost toproductivity, but worse than
(08:01):
that um, if you're if you'reusing your phone all the time
that it's kind of You're thenmeaning you're on screens more,
which messes up your mentalhealth more.
It means then you don't get allthe finished work time, so you
have more, you know, the kind ofthings that you could have done
at work, then build on yourmind.
So then you're thinking aboutwork life outside of work, but
then you're also thinking aboutpersonal life inside of work.
(08:23):
So you know what it's like,you're at work and, you know,
you were in the middle ofsomething and suddenly a
WhatsApp message comes up andit's from the family group.
And it's, it's your son and he'son holiday in, uh, in Italy and
you're thinking, Oh no, I don't,I don't want to be, I don't want
to be here.
I want to be in Italy with him.
Oh, this is for, you know.
And you end up then, this whole,this whole kind of demarcation
of, of work and life becomesmore and more blurred.
(08:44):
The personal gets into your worklife, which makes you feel
unhappy, and then the work getsinto your personal life, which
makes you feel unhappy.
And then, and then because ofthat, you know, that sort of
element of being on your phonesall the time, you know, you're
seeing break times.
In the old days, people used tokind of go to the, go to a
meeting space, and you'd go andchat, and you'd have lunch
together.
Nowadays, sometimes people justgo and sit in their cars, and
they watch Netflix videos.
(09:05):
Or they do shopping, or they'rebooking holidays, and people
don't talk to each otheranymore.
So therefore then those feelingsof satisfaction that often you
get from work because you've gotgreat relationships with your
colleagues, that's not thereeither.
So it's really interesting thatwhole element of how we bring
phones into work, and ouremployers often kind of let us
do it, probably a lot of it,because they're addicted
(09:27):
themselves.
So yeah, this Be More Colin isultimately me going into
workplaces and helping people torealize that if they actually
spent less time on theirpersonal mobiles during working
times, actually that they'denjoy life more.
And the evidence is from peopleI've done Be More Colin with.
So the pilot we did, 60 percentof people said their mental
(09:48):
health and their jobsatisfaction had increased since
putting into place the Be MoreColin.
Activities, which is great statsand very, very, very
encouraging.
And the other thing as well, thegood thing about the whole, the
whole thing about tackling ourphone use at work, it rebounds
and helps us at home.
Because when you realizeactually you don't want to be on
(10:09):
your phone as much at work, thenactually you're going to be more
present in the moment whenyou're at home with your
children, with your wife, withyour husband, with your partner.
So actually then you end upgetting this kind of freedom
away from your device.
So the device becomes somethingthat's valuable to you.
Rather than something thatactually you feel like you need
to be looking at all the time.
So I've got my phone use downto, on good days, and it's not
(10:31):
always good, but on good daysdown to less than half an hour a
day.
So this weekend, both my timeswere under half an hour a day.
And I tell you what, I got somuch more done.
I was, I was happier.
It was, it was, it was a greatweekend because I wasn't glued
to my phone screen.
Shelley (10:46):
That's so encouraging.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And, um, a few things are comingup for me.
I guess one thing, the name, um,the name is very striking and
very memorable.
How did you come up with that?
Mark (10:59):
So when I was working at the BBC, there was a colleague
of mine who was promoted tobeing the breakfast producer.
Uh, so the breakfast producer isa person who the night before
the radio show would geteverything ready.
So he'd work a later shift, likestarting at one PM and then
finishing about 9 PM.
And, uh, and there's a guy whowas put into this role, and, uh,
and his name was Colin.
And, uh, he said to me, um, um,I don't like the shift mark
(11:23):
because I never get away ontime.
And I thought, okay, well, I'llwatch him and just see what,
what's going on.
And I noticed that what wouldhappen is he'd be typing away,
writing a script, and then bing!It'd be MSN Messenger.
We'll pop him on his computer.
So he'd look at the MSNMessenger, and he'd type again,
and then he'd go back to hiswork and carry on typing again,
and bing! Another message.
And it kind of went on.
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing,bing, bing.
(11:43):
It was just crazy.
And I just said to him, that'sthe problem.
If you stop looking at MSNMessenger, you'll get away on
time.
And he was a bit doubtful, buthe agreed to try it.
And the next morning he walkedin, he said, Mark, it worked! I
got away on time! So really,ultimately, what I say to people
is, you need to be more Colin.
Be inspired by Colin.
He made a change, and so canyou.
Shelley (12:05):
And something else that's coming up Mark, and I
love that story by the way, um,it is just about us feeling the
need, because we can, because wecan message and update, feeling
the need to, you know, ifsomething great happens, rather
than Setting an intention andcreating a small event, whether
(12:25):
that's physical or virtual ifyour people aren't necessarily
around you and then likecelebrating your win with your
people in a way that you canactually feel the like
celebration between you, we'remuch more inclined to just like
send a quick message and thenit's like, Oh, well done.
It's like, physiologically, arewe missing that?
(12:46):
We're not celebrating ourselves,you know, and I guess the other
side, the other side of thatequation is also when, you know,
bad things do and invariablyhappen in our lives.
Again, are we, actually lettingthe important people know about
it in a way that's going toserve us so they can actually
support us or are they justsending a message maybe even
(13:09):
during work time and then you'renot even able to take that on
board.
So I guess us always having theavailability to, to message and
connect with people is maybetaking away from actually we
could be talking about this overthe dinner table because we
haven't had those exchangesduring work time.
Mark (13:28):
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good point.
A few years ago, I remember Imet up with some friends, and
I'd not seen them for years.
And I said, oh, this hashappened.
And they went, oh yeah, we know,we saw you, we saw on Facebook.
Oh, I've got this bit of news.
And we saw that on Facebook.
And I thought, I've got nothingto tell them.
Nothing to tell them.
And I thought, and then fromthat moment on, I thought, I'm
no longer posting on Facebook.
So.
(13:48):
What I only use Facebook for nowis ultimately for memories.
So I, when I do post, I post toa selected group of people,
about three people, which islike my dad, uh, my son, uh, and
my wife.
And now I'm more like inevitablymy wife and my son are probably
going to be with me anyway, atleast my wife is.
So, but it's more, so then theyonly get seen by a very small
number.
Uh, but then I've got it onFacebook memories to go back to
(14:09):
when I want to.
So when I do meet people, when Ido catch up with people, I have
loads to tell them and they haveloads to tell me because I don't
read through my newsfeed onFacebook either.
So I don't know what they'redoing.
And it is interesting, isn't it?
Somebody will say, uh, you know,you'll meet somebody and they'll
say, uh, Oh yeah, I've got a newjob, but you must, you must
have, you must have seen it onFacebook.
No?
Didn't see it?
But they just presume, becausethey post it on social media,
(14:31):
that everyone knows their news.
And of course, one is they'reunder the misapprehension that
suddenly everybody on, wheneveryou post on, on, on a social
network, that everyone sees yourpost who's following you, which
of course isn't true at all.
Plus the fact that they expecteverybody to be glued to social
media in the way that maybe theyare.
So I find it, um, yeah, I foundit much more liberating by
posting less and enjoying thosemoments around the dinner table,
(14:54):
as you say, uh, where you canjust have really rich
conversations and, and go intokind of more detail and more
stories and get across thatfeeling and that excitement in a
way that.
You know, it's only limited howyou can do that on social media.
Shelley (15:10):
Yeah, totally resonate.
Something that's coming up forme is about the different
generations.
Um, because I remember whenFacebook first launched and for
me it was perfect timing.
I had, uh, I just completeduniversity up in Leeds.
I'd done a student exchange toAustralia as well.
So I had a whole bunch ofAustralian friends, American
(15:32):
friends, Canadian friends,friends from up North.
That suddenly I was able toupdate and keep updated.
And obviously family memberskind of trickled in a bit
slowly.
Um, so in its heyday, whenFacebook first launched, like it
was very, very exciting for mepersonally.
I don't know how your initialexperience was.
(15:52):
And I guess because there wasonly that one, like if you
posted, most people did.
see it.
And there was much lessadvertising.
And I guess the algorithm wasless sophisticated.
So actually it probably did showyou to all of your people.
Whereas now, obviously there'sso many different platforms that
you can choose to be on.
So, you know, it's hit and missif you're, if you're going to be
(16:15):
able to get in front of thepeople that you want to see it.
But have you seen bearing inmind, I know you're doing.
some talks in schools and maybewe can delve into that a bit
deeper.
But have you seen a differentgeneration?
Because I'm also thinking aboutlike my, my parents age, so say
mid, mid 60s.
Um, and actually they still seemfairly excited about Facebook
(16:38):
and they still share a lot andthey still get a lot of
engagement from their friendsand family.
on Facebook.
Have you, have you, do you wantto talk through something on
generations?
Mark (16:49):
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because the, the fastest growingaudience on Facebook for a long
time has been all the oldergeneration.
And, uh, some will overshare,some will never post.
Um, but it's interesting aswell, because you can then look
at the younger generation andactually for the younger
generation.
Sharing is not something they doas often as maybe, maybe, you
(17:10):
know, the people who were aroundwhen Facebook first launched.
They're more about messaging.
Through Instagram or, you know,there's obviously a lot of,
there's a lot of still peopleposting occasionally on TikTok
or things like that.
And there are some people whoare very prolific, but actually
the majority of people justwatch.
They just scroll.
they don't do an awful lot ofposting.
Um, whether that's because Well,who knows what their reasons is,
(17:32):
I suppose.
Do they feel like they've gotanything to contribute?
I mean, you see that when I,when I work with businesses
through, through the companystatus social that some
businesses don't think they'vegot anything to say.
They probably have, they justdon't think they have, so I, so
I suppose that would kind ofmake sense as to why maybe
sometimes some older people postbecause When you get older in
life, often you've, you're moreopinionated, you feel like
(17:53):
you've got more wisdom to share,you've got more of a right to
say what's on your mind, youdon't really care what others
think about you, so thereforethen you post more to maybe a
younger person who's maybe alittle bit more insecure.
Shelley (18:05):
And something else that's coming up is all about
the personal versusprofessional, so I I launched a
business, um, a while back and Icreated a new kind of business
Facebook page, businessInstagram page.
So now I have like so manydifferent spaces and that was
(18:25):
quite intentional because Iwanted to invite people from my
personal networks to, if theywanted to engage with my
professional side.
They could then follow myprofessional Facebook book or
Instagram.
And then I've kind of kept mypersonal pages for personal
posts, which again, they're veryinfrequent.
(18:46):
I do occasionally send somethingout.
Um, have you found something interms of working with businesses
and like staying professionaland then You know, speaking to
individuals and, you know,finding that neat boundary
between your personal andprofessional posts.
Mark (19:04):
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Because you can, you mentionedthere are quite a few different
things you set up there.
And my, one of the things, I'm aprofessional speaker, and one of
the things I talk about in mykeynote is, is you've got to be
excellent.
So it's therefore if you'regoing to, because if you're not
excellent, then the algorithmswon't show your posts to people.
So to be excellent reallyprobably involves doing a whole
(19:27):
lot less social media, but doingit really well.
So for instance, with me, mymain platform is LinkedIn.
So therefore all my efforts.
Suspense on LinkedIn, I postvery, very rarely on Instagram,
very, very rarely on X and, and,uh, just one hardly at all on
Facebook, but certainly in termsof from a business point of view
the reason where I get most ofmy success is from my personal
(19:48):
LinkedIn page, not the companypage because people buy from
people.
So actually we can think, okay,we need to have business pages
on all the networks, but really,do we need to have.
Just maybe one business page andmaybe it's more coming from a
personal side on one networkbecause that's when I'm gonna
get my results from.
It's about understanding thetarget audience, isn't it?
Where's my target audience andhow am I gonna reach out to
(20:09):
them?
And yes, we can and you mighthave elements of your target
audience on Instagram, onTikTok, on whatever.
But actually, is that really thebest place to get them where you
can be consistently excellent?
All the time.
So therefore a lot of people, Isay to businesses, you need to
stop dancing on TikTok.
You need to stop trying to getto younger people on Instagram
because you've not got thecontent.
(20:29):
You've got nothing to say.
You're not doing it properly.
Your posts are rubbish.
You know, your writing's awful.
Just focus on one network and doit really well.
And if you really focus on doingone network and get, and just,
you know, do one post a week.
So look, a great example of thatis on my LinkedIn profile.
So if I, if I look back on thelast seven days analytics, I've
only written two posts.
Yeah, I have 60, 6 0 posts stillbeing seen on newsfeeds of
(20:55):
people, ranging back over morethan a year old, because they're
so good posts that they're stillbeing seen on LinkedIn more than
a year later.
In fact, my longest serving one,there was one post I wrote 11
years ago that's still gettingengagement.
Shelley (21:10):
Amazing.
Yeah.
So good.
Less is more.
Less is more.
I'm really knowing where you'recomfortable as well.
And one of the things that Ispeak about, um, is social
wealth.
Um, and there's, there's threepillars of social wealth.
One of them being personalexpression.
(21:31):
And then solidarity andrelational interest.
So maybe on LinkedIn, you feelreally comfortable expressing
yourself.
Do you feel the solidarity fromyour LinkedIn community?
Maybe, maybe you find solidaritymore on Facebook because that's
(21:51):
your personal.
connections of family andfriends.
And it's just being aware ofthis so we can better understand
kind of ourselves and what'sserving us.
Cause like you said, we'rewasting a lot of time.
Um, and social media doesn'thave to be bad.
But if we can kind of do ouraudit to understand where we're
(22:13):
able to express ourselves, wherewe feel the solidarity and where
we feel that people are actuallygenuinely interested in us.
And we're kind of genuinelyinterested in the people that
we're shown.
And if we go, actually, I don't,I'm not interested in any of
these posts.
It's like, okay, then maybe youneed to kind of clean up your
channels.
So you're seeing the type ofpeople that you want to be
(22:33):
seeing.
You're influenced by theinfluences that you choose to be
influenced by.
Mark (22:39):
It's interesting isn't it?
I was thinking there as you weretalking that, that I talk a lot
about objectives, you know, whenit comes to when we do our
social media training workshops,I'll say, right, okay, what's
your company objectives, yourbigger company objectives, and
then let's move them across tosocial media to see if they can
be achieved.
But I also wonder as wellwhether actually there are
personal objectives.
You know, what's my personal,why am I on social media?
(23:02):
Am I on there to make friends?
Am I on there to change lives?
Am I on there to make adifference?
Am I on there to try andpersuade people to change their.
political thoughts, and thenusing social media like that.
So there's a real purpose behindit rather than just being on it
just because it's there.
And actually, if you then haveobjectives, and then you try and
use social media to achieve yourobjectives, and actually the
(23:24):
satisfaction you'll get if youcan achieve your objectives is
going to be so much bigger thanif you just go on there and have
no kind of real.
You know, you're just on therefor just for no real purpose and
I know that almost sounds a bitlike You know almost like you
know a bit too.
I don't know maybe cynical butactually why why are we you
know?
What if our objective is to getmore friends then actually maybe
(23:46):
it's not just being on socialmedia if our objective is to
change the political climate,then maybe we should also go and
join a political party.
You know, so then you, then youstart looking actually, is, is
social media just going toachieve my objectives, or can it
even really achieve myobjectives?
Or can I do something better?
Maybe I should be getting intopolitics.
You know, so, so whatever itmight be, but what's your
objectives in life?
What's your purpose in life?
(24:08):
And then finding out whethersocial media can help you
achieve the purpose.
And it, and if it can, if itcan, then great.
Use it strategically.
And if it can't Then go and dosomething else.
Shelley (24:18):
I really hope the current political climate does
inspire some brave souls to wantto get into politics.
I feel like we need some reallygood politicians.
Um, so I know there's a lot ofdifferent strands to what you're
doing right now, Mark, and I'mso excited to, to like, learn a
bit more about these and likewhere you really feel called.
(24:41):
Appreciate that.
right now.
I know there's a lot ofdifferent movements going on in
terms of protecting children.
Are you feeling like, where areyou feeling called to really
serve and, and get your messageout there?
Mark (24:53):
Yeah.
So my, um, my motto in life isbased around what Jesus said in
John 10, 10.
He said, I've come to give lifeand life in all its abundance.
And I don't want to live ahumdrum life.
I want to enjoy life.
And I don't want others to havea humdrum life.
I don't want others to wastetheir lives.
There's a great life out thereto be had, but we need to make
sure that we're not lettingthings get in the way.
(25:14):
So when, why we created acharity called Positive Social,
um, we started doing the pilot10 years ago and then really
launched it in anger in the lasttwo years.
We've got in front of more than10, 000 children, ultimately
helping them make betterdecisions about how they use
social media.
So firstly, are they Are theyusing it appropriately?
Are they behaving, um, in a goodway towards other children?
(25:36):
Um, are they damaging theirfuture?
Um, we talk about the privacysettings and making sure they're
being safe on there.
Um, but then we also talk aboutthe whole level of how the
social networks were designed tobe addictive and who do they
want to be in control of theirlives, them or the social
network owners.
And then finally we talk aboutAre you living your best days,
or are you ruining your bestdays by spending your life
(25:58):
behind a phone screen?
And what's really interestingis, is that even though they're
children and people think, Oh,children, they won't, they won't
change, they're addicted, theywant to be on their phones all
the time.
They don't.
When we, when we give thempermission to think in a
different way, they make amazingcommitments, such as I'm going
to leave Instagram because it's,it's making me feel sad, or I'm
leaving TikTok because it'swashing my mind.
(26:18):
Or I'm, I'm going to, I'm goingto leave WhatsApp groups where I
recognise I'm the one bullyingother kids.
Or I'm going to spend more timewith my mum and recognise
they're more important.
Or I'm going to start doing morepainting.
Or I'm going to play footballwith my mates.
Or I'm not going to take myphone to bed with me anymore.
And, you know, these arecommitments made by 11 and 12
year olds and younger as well.
Because they recognise thatactually life is more fun when
(26:40):
you're not always tied to amobile phone.
So I, I think that's amazing,and I, and I, and I love, and I,
then part of the reason why Idid Be More Colin was because I
remember one of the childrensaying to me, Yeah, but, sir, if
I go home and do this, my mumand dad are still on their phone
all the time.
So Be More Colin gets into theworkplace and helps parents make
the better decisions.
But really, I'd like to justlike People, I'm not, whether
(27:02):
it's going to change, whetherthe culture is going to change
and people are going to realizethat, that the mobile phones are
becoming just, just tooobsessive.
I mean, when you go to thetoilets and there's a man there
weeing with, with his, with hisphone in his hand, it's just
not, it's not, this is not theway life should be made.
It shouldn't be like this,should it really?
Shelley (27:20):
Oh my goodness, that is quite a vision.
And in terms of ages, you spokeabout some quite young children
there, even in the context oftaking their phones to the
bedroom, and that's quiteastonishing for me.
I'm, I'm living on VancouverIsland and in Canada.
(27:43):
Um, so some of my daughter'seight, um, some of her friends
do have devices.
Um, mainly if they've beenhanded down, you know, a parent
gets an upgrade and then theynaturally just get the.
the old one.
Um, I, we don't really want ourdaughter to have one until she's
at least 12.
I wonder what the current kindof recommended, are you hearing
(28:06):
like the kind of age thatchildren should be entrusted
with a device?
Mark (28:11):
Well, I think it's about the difference between a dumb
phone and a smartphone.
So, uh, my, my 11 year old.
Um, it's going to be going to,uh, secondary school, high
school, uh, next, in September.
And she, what we're going to do,so with an iPhone, you can turn
an iPhone into a dumb phone,ultimately remove all the smart
things, apart from what you wantto have on it, and it just
becomes, so it still looks likean iPhone, but actually it
(28:33):
doesn't have all the things onit that actually is going to get
in their way.
So there'll be no Snapchat onthere, there'll be no, there'll
be no WhatsApp.
She can text, she can call, shecan listen to Spotify, but
that's it.
And, and I, I think that, forme, is a wise move.
Um, I know even in, in the ageshe is now, I think she's the
only one in her class not tohave a mobile phone.
(28:53):
Um, and she walks home fromschool.
We have her an Apple AirTag, sowe can see where she is if she
gets lost, or not she's ever gotlost, or we don't, or she's late
back from the park, whatever itmight be.
But I don't think she needsanything more than that.
And she recognizes she doesn'twant anything more than that
because she's seen the issuesthat's happened in her class
with her classmates doing thingsthat aren't right on social
(29:15):
media or on their phones.
So the more we can resist thetemptation to let our children
have smartphones, the better.
I mean, there's some, I mean,one bit of a shocking research
is that children who spend anexcessive amount of time on
their mobile phones it resultsin them having, affecting the
pre cortal, uh, pre, uh,prefrontal, the, the, I've
(29:36):
forgotten the name, the frontpart of the brain! Uh,
Shelley (29:39):
prefrontal cortex.
Mark (29:41):
Cortex! That's the one! Thank you Shelly.
So it damages that part of thebrain, which means then as they
get older they're more likely toget stressed, depressed,
anxious, sleep deprived, itaffects their long term memory,
um, children, girls who spendTeenage girls who spend two to
three hours a day on theirphones are more likely to take
their own lives.
Um, there was a study out thatshowed that, um, if you spend
(30:03):
more than five hours a day on,on social media, you're going to
be 50 percent worse at mathsthan, than other children.
There's some, there's loads andloads of great information out
there.
And it just shows that childrenare not ready to spend a lot of
time on their phones when, when,when they're young and, and
actually as brains keep ondeveloping into teenage years,
(30:25):
surely it's just not a good ideato let any child to be on their
phone.
So little things that we do,because we do parent sessions as
well.
And, uh, and I'll say to themthings like, have a, have a ban
on, on devices upstairs.
You know, having any childhaving a device on their own for
long periods of time, it's just.
Could be a recipe for disaster.
And we have like a basket in ourkitchen where all the phones go,
so we're not carrying themaround the house everywhere we
(30:46):
go.
We have no, no phones at thedinner table.
We go, we go away.
I say, right, no social mediaduring our, during our holiday
You know, there's just littlethings that you can do as
parents.
But I think the key thing I findis that parents think they need
to be there, need to be friendswith their children.
Well, we're not, we're parentsand we can't, you know, parents
(31:07):
need to make good decisions,even if they are very unpopular
with our children and, and we,and they, they will thank us in
the future.
My, my, my now 20 year oldthanked me that we didn't allow
him to have um, social mediatill he was 13, um, because he
recognized what, what a mess itcaused to his, to his friends.
Shelley (31:26):
Thank you so much, so much here.
And I've just been recommended abook which I've just started
listening to the audio of calledHow to Be the Grown Up.
Mark (31:35):
Oh, that sounds interesting.
Shelley (31:37):
Yeah, and it was a teacher's recommended it to me,
a friend, a friend teacher, notlike a teacher from my kid's
school.
Like, come on, be the grown uphere.
Um, I'm just wondering ifthere's anything that we haven't
covered here today in terms ofthe different facets of what
you're working in and also likethe passions that you have.
(31:58):
If there's anything that wehaven't yet touched on today
that you think, I can't leavethis conversation without
letting, letting these listenersknow that I'm also into this.
Mark (32:08):
Wow what else I mean one of the things i'm very
passionate about is umprofessional speaking So I
joined the professional speakingassociation as an american
equivalent as well and acanadian equivalent and uh Just,
uh, giving you that confidenceto stand up in front of other
people has been really exciting.
You know, I've been speaking fora long time, you know, I speak
(32:31):
in church.
I still do occasionally speak inchurch.
I would, and then I would, whenwe started the business, I would
do talks.
But then, I think it's like, oneof the things I'm not very good
at is investing in myself.
You know, I end up kind oftaking shortcuts, thinking, I
don't know, is it, you know, Ihaven't got the time, I don't
want to spend the budget.
But actually, this is one of thefirst things I've actually
invested in myself.
(32:52):
Going on to, you go on to thesemonthly meetings, you see great
speakers, um, talk, you learnfrom how they do it.
And you then, just putting itinto practice has been just, and
seeing, seeing how.
We can develop the speakers,which gives us more confidence
in the workplace if you've gotto give a talk at work or if or
if you're, uh, you know, you'vegot to try and win people over.
(33:13):
So, you know, obviously, as aperson with a charity, I'm going
to be speaking at a few charityengagements coming up and I've
got to be able to talk about thecharity in a way that's dynamic
and win people over.
Um, that kind of level of, ofincreasing your confidence is
really, really good.
So I'd encourage anybody who'sthinking, actually I need to
speak more to find, uh, find anorganization like that.
(33:33):
Because I think they are sogood.
It's so good.
I mean, they say, don't they?
Is it professional?
Public speaking is the thingthat terrifies people more than
anything else in life?
Well, I'll tell you what, I loveit.
Love it.
Shelley (33:46):
Thank you for sharing.
I know Toastmasters is alsoanother one that's global.
Um, I've attended a few of thoseand actually my father used to,
um, have a, have a cardealership in New Zealand and he
said the best sales guys.
were the ones that went toToastmasters and they got that
experience of speaking in publicand yeah, pushing your comfort
(34:07):
zones.
Mark (34:08):
Yeah.
I think it's because it's one ofthe things that I've goes across
all the things I do is aboutwinning people over.
So there's a thing calledstrength finders that did years
ago.
And one of the things that keptit identified for me with my, as
my top skill was, was calledwinning others over.
And I find that when you, theway, the way you win others over
is by understanding them first.
So, you know, when I, when I gointo schools, I win over the
(34:30):
children whatever age rangebecause I understand how
children think, even though I'mwell beyond school children age.
When I'm in business, when I,when I train people in how to
use social media, it's notabout, I don't train people how
to use social media, although Ido, I train people how to use
social media to win others over.
And I think that whole thing ofunderstanding people, others
first, understanding wherethey're coming from, what their
(34:51):
motivations are, it just worksso well across all areas of
life.
You know, in your personal life,you listen more, you engage
more, you, you, you get enrichedmore by other people's stories.
There is, there's somethingthere when you listen first, and
then you can win people over.
And I think that's a, again, oneof those key things I think as a
(35:12):
professional speaker, when youunderstand what the target
audience want, or the audiencewants rather, that actually you
can just do amazing things.
Shelley (35:21):
Yeah.
And I guess that's the idea ofwinning someone over.
the pillars of social wealth,it's really speaking to
relational interest andsolidarity.
So you want to be able toinspire their relational
interest and in turn, they'regoing to then give you the
solidarity that you're, thatyou're wanting.
Mark (35:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's like me as a Christian, youknow, I, I, I don't feel that,
you know, I need to convertpeople, but I do, I do think
it's important for people tomake a choice.
So therefore then actually beingable to.
Uh, explain things in a waywhich you know will resonate
with others.
That's, that's a really, reallygood way of doing it.
And if you do it with love andyou do it without actually, you
(36:02):
know, without judging people,again, it can be really
powerful.
And I think, again, that goesfor everything in life, doesn't
it?
If you can talk to somebodywithout judging them, and
you're, you respect theirdecision, but actually you also
understand why you're sayingwhat you're saying, and you've
thought about it properly.
There's a power in that, ineverything, in everything we do.
Shelley (36:20):
All about setting the intention, right?
We set the intention from aplace of love and a place of
positivity, um, then we're ontosomething that's going to be a
win win.
Mark (36:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah, although I haven't, Ihaven't actually, one of the
things I have failed in, I'vegot to confess Shelley, I've
never, I've never actuallysucceeded in my campaign to rid
the world of the world's mostevil foodstuff, quiche.
Um, I've been running a campaignnow, Christians Against Quiche,
for the best part of 20 years.
Although I got on internationalradio and TV, unfortunately it's
(36:56):
never been banned by the Pope orthe Archbishop of Canterbury.
So, uh, I mean, there you
Shelley (37:01):
got against quiche?
A good quiche Lorraine?
Mark (37:04):
Sorry.
The what?
A good Lorraine.
A good, a good key.
Lorraine.
I'm afraid that's an oxymoron.
uh, there is a thing of a goodkey.
Sure.
As we call in our flight, in ourhouse, vomit in Alan Case um,
it's the most evil food stuffknown to man.
It, it came because, um, whatwould happen is whenever there
was concern, any kind of kind ofchurch bring in share.
(37:26):
Busy families would pop intotheir local corner shop on the
way to church, grab a cheapquiche from the, from the nearby
fridge shelves, and you'd get tochurch, and then you get to the
bring and share lunch, and allyou would have is quiche! And I
just thought, right, this is it.
I'm going to launch a campaign.
So I launched Christians AgainstQuiche.
My campaign one day is to, myplan is to, you know, travel
(37:46):
through Europe, go throughLorraine, and find out why on
earth they invented quiche.
And then end up at the Vatican,and the Vatican, I'll kiss his
ring, and he'll say, he'll say,I will add no more quiche, and
that'll be it.
That's my worst Pope impressionever, by the way.
I have no idea whether that washis accent.
Shelley (38:02):
Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure.
I wish you every success, mainlywith your Be More Colin
campaign.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm behind that one a little bitmore.
Um, no, it's been such apleasure to learn a bit more
about you, your work.
I'll make sure we include all ofyour links.
Is there kind of one place thatyou, you would prefer that
people come find you?
Is that LinkedIn?
Mark (38:22):
Yeah, LinkedIn's my, my favorite one, but, um, yeah,
feel free to, to email me atMark at, uh, statussocial.
co.
uk or, or through the PositiveSocial website, um,
positivesocial.
org.
uk.
Um, you can get me in lots of,lots of different places, but
Mark's actually on, on, on asearch on Google on, I come up
pretty highly with my LinkedInprofile, so it's a good way to
(38:42):
find me.
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