Rediscovering Latinidad Season 5 Episode 11 Lorena Gallo: Una vida vale más que el pene de Bobbitt

Happy Thanksgiving and shopping weekend! To commemorate Domestic Violence Awareness Day on November 25th, today we discuss the Lorena Gallo (Bobbitt) true crime case. We're joined by journalist Jenn Piñeiro, comedian Christine Piñeiro, and Lillian Schene from our previous episode on Latino veterans!

Please visit Edward's blog! Let's keep this family research going: http://ruedafingerhut.blogspot.com/

Christine is a member of the improv team Baby Todd at the Upright Citizens Brigade. Check out her website at christinepineiro.com!

Rediscovering Latinidad is an independent podcast. This show is hosted by Briar Rose, Fausto, Edward, y Jellissa and is engineered by Matthew Sambolin. Cover art designed by George Colon. If you would like to reach out, please email us at [e-mail], or leave us a voicemail at 646-470-9824. Please find us and follow our social media accounts on Facebook as Rediscovering Latinidad, on Instagram at @RediscoveringLatinidad, on Twitter at @RediscLatinidad, and on reddit at r/RediscoveringLatindad. If you would like to become a member of our Patreon, please join at: https://patreon.com/RediscoveringLatinidad?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Briar Rose here from the Rediscovering latinis add podcast, and
I encourage you to support the wonderful work that LATINX
Parenting is doing. You can help support the mission of
education and scholarships by checking out their merchandise store on
their website, where you can pick up great apparel and
accessories emblazoned with their mottos all children are our children
and in Chanka culture shop the entire collection at Latinxparenting

(00:37):
dot org. That's Latinxparenting dot org. Welcome back everyone. This
is season five, episode eleven of Rediscovering Latinidad. My name
is Briar Rose.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm Fausto, I'm At, and.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'mj Lisa, and i am Team Lorena for Life. Today
is our true crime episode where we discussed the case
of Lorena Gayo versus John Wayne Bobbitt, and I'd love
to invite Our guests are panelists who are joining today,
my good friend Lillian, who we last spoke with at

(01:23):
the Veterans episode about two weeks ago. Lillian, please introduce yourself. Hi, everybody, Hello, Hello, welcome,
and we are also joined by two of Edward's friends.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I'm going to introduce Jennifer and Christine Pinero to diehard
true crime fans. All right, hey, welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Thanks everyone. So does anyone else want to get this
case started? Or should we just jump right into the
facts and then, by the way, cut to the chase. No,
let's love it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Let's not sell ourselves short. Yeah, let's stop jerking around. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
So this so once upon a time in nineteen sixty nine.
Lorena lenore Gaya was born in Ecuador. She later moved
to Venezuela, where her dad was a dental tech and
for herquin Sierta or was it Hurricanes theater or her
cousins king now for her for Hurricane Seetta, they took
her to the United States. She fell in love with it,

(02:35):
and that's all she dreamed about doing when she came.
She wanted to come to the United States. And when
she got here, she was a nanny at first, and
was it two months after she got here she got no.
Two months after she met John, she was married. Lorena
met John at a dance on a military base. It

(02:58):
was he was in the US Army.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Right was.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
A marine. He was a marine. He was two years older.
She was twenty and he was twenty two. She thought
he was the most handsome man. He thought she was
sweet and cute or whatever he called her. Two months
later they were married because they didn't want to stop
dating and they were together. The domestic violence happened pretty

(03:26):
soon into that marriage, and a lot of it evolved
drinking at first, although it did not was not limited
to me.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
She said, it was a month after they were married
that wow.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, she tried to make justin that he did not
drink and drive, and she got punched in the face.
So that's where that started.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
But she.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
So he was just he was the worst. He was
the absolute worst. She was a manicurist, she was trained
to be a nail technician, and then she was also
a nanny. And because he eventually was not in the military,
I think he had some odd jobs as a bartender.
But she was the breadwinner in that family. But he
would spend her money recklessly to the point where she

(04:12):
was forced to embezzle from her nail the nail technician
place that she was working at, and she was very
good friends with her manager who was there the night
that she came to the manager the night that she
did she did the crime, and the manager actually forgave
her and she kept working there Lorena like. They would

(04:35):
use things like that against Loreena like a character basis, saying, oh, well,
she was inbuzzling money. It was because she couldn't keep
up with the foreclosures and the money. And then she
would shoplift dresses to look pretty for him so he
would stop cheating on her, openly cheating on her, saying
she was a dirty Hispanic. He forced her to get
an abortion, saying, oh, when he wouldn't raise a child

(04:57):
with a dirty Hispanic, and she's probably going to during
this process, even though she wanted to keep the child.
Awful man, just I mean, it gets worse and worse
and worse everything you hear about him. There were plenty
of domestic violence calls between the two of them. Most
they tried to claim it was Lorena being the abuser,

(05:18):
because sometimes it was John calling saying that she was
going crazy, when in reality she was. She had at
this point she had neighbors that saw the abuse. She
told her neighbors he raped her, that he beat her,
Her coworkers saw her. If a man talked to her
in a bar and her friends are around, he would
like abuse her in front of them verbally and physically.

(05:41):
There were so many witnesses.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
His friends were witnesses.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
His friends were witnesses for her during her trial, which
was after his trial, and they would say the things
that they saw him do. And if your friends are
not advocating for you, pretty death's pretty bad. But three
of the calls were made by John in nineteen ninety one,

(06:05):
I believe he pleaded guilty to assault and battery against Lorena,
So there was a basis here that he had abused her.
She was on a student vie so when she got
here and she actually learned to speak English through watching
the prices right from what I hear. Oh, yes, yes,
her manager and friend was Johanna Basuto, and he was

(06:30):
just a background on him as well. John Bobbitt, John
Way Bobbitt. He was born from Niagara Falls. He actually
did grow up in an abusive home where his father.
Before his father left, he was incredibly abusive to the mother's.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Supposed to be drop two I think an uncle sexually. Still, Oh,
I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
They relocated because his mother. After his father left, his
mother couldn't take care of them, so they moved in
with an aunt and uncle. And the uncle abused him
and his siblings and cousins.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh hear h did not Yeah, because a father also
drank and beat the mother. Yes, three years old, he
was taken from the mother because of drugs and neglect. Yes,
you were absolutely right. And so Lorenna met him in
a dance near the Marine Corps base. In the infamous
and vanity Fair article after the incident, but before the trial,

(07:20):
she Lorena would say that he was a handsome man
with blue eyes fighting for his country, and she wanted
this American dream, and she loved the fact that he
was defending his country. And John just thought she was
pretty innocent and sweet. This was her first boyfriend. She
was a virgin before marriage. Like this was her which
is really horrific, Like your first sexual experience was with

(07:43):
that That to man, that awful person. But they would
bring up her like spending habits, and he he would
have friends day. I mean, these are smaller things, but
he would have He had absolutely no respect for her.
He would have his friend's day with notice, and he
would drink and drive. He belted her, and she was

(08:04):
allowed to keep her job after the embezzling, but she
had to pay the money back, and so they got
married in nineteen eighty nine, about a twenty for her
in twenty he was twenty two. This was this all
took place in Manassas, Virginia, where she still resides today.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Actually she's still there and she's still in nail tech.
And that's when she is getting to that later. But
she that's when she is not working on her working
with her nonprofit that helps domestic violence victims. So he
pleaded guilty to assault and battery. Charges were dismissed if
he agreed to counseling. And oh, by the way, just

(08:45):
a side note to this guy's arrogance. He used to
sign into a gym and he used the name John
Claude Van dam God.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
He just yeah, he's quite the character.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
But again, this being the podcast, it is like, let's
circle back and remember that he would put her down
for being Latina constantly, like threatening her with deportation, immigration status, right,
turning her into the authorities, like just some real psychological
torture on top of the physical and the controlling and

(09:18):
the financial.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
I mean, let's let's just say it. That's one of
the reasons he picked her is because she was dependent
on that, and she loved him, but she also she
didn't need a reason for the US to kick her out,
So he liked that neediness and obedience. And you know,
she said once, the more I wanted to fight him,
the more he wanted to do it. Like the more

(09:40):
I wanted to fight against having sex with him, the
more he wanted it. He really only wanted sex with
her when he was brutalizing her. He didn't like consensual.
That was not a thing.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think, yeah, And I think that's he said as much.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
He did not, and he was a lance corporal. And
he isolated her from her family and friends, which is
not un expected. She was not allowed to make phone calls.
She said she was naive. I think she Yes, she
was young, but there was no way to anticipate all that.
You know, this happened. This, all the bad stuff happened
after she got married. The house went into foreclosure. She

(10:17):
would start paperwork for orders against John, and they would
get back together, and then they would split up and
get back together. They got a new apartment, and she
actually didn't stop the process of getting an order against
John when the crime happened. There was just such a delay,
so something was already in the works when this all happened.

(10:37):
So this isn't a like a out of nowhere thing, like, oh,
who could have anticipated this? Like he was such a
nice guy. No one knew he no one thought he
was a nice guy at this point. So she Yeah,
they were married for five years, and she assaulted him.
The marriage was the revisa. She would work long hours,

(10:59):
by the way. They were separated at one point, and
he fathered a kid with another woman, and yes, and
then they came back together and they were I don't
think that child was involved in her life at all.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
I don't think so, at least not from what I read.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
But they were living together again and talking about divorce
now June twenty third, nineteen ninety three, the big day.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
State night into Wednesday morning.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, this was repeated over and over.

Speaker 6 (11:23):
Oh okay, yes, you know, we all know that when
people are in bad relationships, it gets harder for them
to leave, especially when you're young, especially when there's immigration issues.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
So she just had a lot piled up against her
that these five years were just hell for her, absolute hell.
And you know, and his story kept changing, and not
in like a victim way, and just like I'm trying
to absolve responsibility sort of way. And let's just also
state where the United States was and as far as
legal issues were back at this time period, marital rape

(11:56):
was not a thing. You could not rape your spouse
that you're the part of their property. You can't do that.
And I think the only only a few states allowed
that to be like a charge, but only under like
two specific conditions, like one they were already dead and
two like someone had to actually like see it happening,

(12:17):
so retroactively not a thing or you know, you survived
and you went later. Not a thing, not in nineteen
ninety three, And please correct me if I'm wrong on
that one, Please everyone fact check me. But that is what.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
So according to John, they he went out with his
friend for drinks and I think he said that he
wanted a divorce and these drinks are out to go
celebrate this divorce that she didn't want. And one of
the reasons she did this was because he wanted a
divorce and she did it, and that's why she did
what she did. Now, he comes back home, his friend

(12:56):
sleeps on the couch. He goes to the sea three
in the morning. It was really bad. And then he
gets there. He did he I'm just gonna state it blankly.
He anally raped her and she was fighting in and
then he fell asleep. She went to get water, and
when she got to the kitchen, then there was a

(13:17):
knife right there, and there was a light shining through
the window, and she blacked out. But she took that
knife up there to the room one slice man.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Once it was the surgeons were super impressed. The surgeons
were the micro surgery. I have to put emphasis. But
if some microsurgeon that had to do his surgery, yes,
very impressed.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
So she leaves. I don't know if she broke the
knife with I think she buried the knife in the dumpster.
So she walks out with it in her hand, the knife,
a game boy, and one hundred dollars, and she's leaving
the house important life, and she is driving down the street.
Two of those four things are in her hand on

(14:03):
mabel Wood Drive. She throws the appendage out the window
into a field and she goes to yes, right next
right by us, either next to her or across the
street from the seven street, and she calls her first,
she calls her. She goes to go see that friend
slash supervisor JOHNA and she has it in her hand.

(14:27):
The woman didn't believe until she saw it in her hand,
like oh shit, and then either Lorena or Jana said,
you have to call the cops. Lorena calls the cops
and she tells them where it's buried. She goes to
I think it's Prince William Hospital in Virginia. She yes,
that's right. Yeah, so she gets She ends up getting

(14:49):
to the out. She tells them where vaguely she threw it.
They the dispatchers actually used coated words because they know
that people listen to journal the radio journalists. I tell you,
I'm a.

Speaker 7 (15:01):
Former Sigman editor. I'm pretty sure whoever was listening that
night and knew something was up specifically, but they were.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Trying not to say the word because they knew it
would be a media which it was. It was a
media craze. And they finally sent people off to go
find this thing in the field. Someone finds it. There
was actually a dispute between the officers of who has
to touch it? Pointed right over.

Speaker 8 (15:26):
There, but they realized religious to touch it. It's like
I can't.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
In the meantime, before we get back to that this
this field. John is laying in a bed an inch
deep of blood everywhere, and he's saying, he's crying out
to his friend, help, I need to get to a hospital.
But he was like in agony, and he was really drunk,
and the friend didn't realize what was going on, so
he was taking his time brushing his teeth. Well, John

(15:58):
is laying there. Finally, the veraging, Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Loves about a third of his blood.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
He didn't lose a third of his blood. They get
they get there, but.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
Also that probably was complicated because he was drunk.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, So when the officers actually got to the apartment
and they saw the bed, it was still an inch
of blood still there, like a pitch was soaked in.
That's how much blood it was.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So apparently what I heard is that there was also
sort of like a butt print, yeah, and blood, right,
which means that at some point he did like wake
up or sit up and then just just kind of
laid but you know, went back to sleep or went
back to a bed.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Like.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah. So they they get him to the hospital, they
go fetch this appendage. When they're when they're getting it
off the field, someone finally picked it up. They go
to the seven eleven, they get ice, and they get
a hot dog box. You put this in to try
to save it.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
This is why sometimes I feel like the universe is
a simulation or like literally, whoever is up there is
a comedian, because this is just like hilarious.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
No one could write this, just like in the Bag
of Ice.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Mind you.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Lorena and Vin sausages, right, they're at this point. They're
at the same hospital though he's waiting for this, this
is Penis to come back so they could do this surgery,
which took two doctors nine hours one bathroom break each
to get this done. And they didn't even know if
they could do it. They even said, if we do this,

(17:42):
we don't know if it's going to stay. But when
it started turning red, they're like, okay, the blood got
to it.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Because initially they were going to do some sort of
reconstructive surgery where they would I guess, right.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
And Lorena was getting tested for a raid kit. So
she's getting tested. They're interrogating here, which we'll get back
to in a second. But he's flirting with the nurses.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay, I'm sorry, and that's the real crime. She's getting Yeah,
and that's the real crime right there.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
So also, what kind of game do you have at
that point in the hospital bed waiting for your appendage
to get reattached?

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Hey lady, which which game boy game? Tetris?

Speaker 8 (18:31):
Right?

Speaker 1 (18:33):
One of the doctors was doctor David Burman. Yes, he
was flirty and ready to go. Apparently this was his own.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Words, so he must have still been drunk. Wait, do
you mean before or after this? This is in the
hospital like Jesus as he's waiting.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, well he's waiting right, because there was a time
when they were just waiting for them to find it. Yeah,
they were just waiting for them, hoping someone brings something.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
How much how much time do you think they gave
the cops where the doctor's like even have fifty seven
minutes and then they're not here by then?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, I wish I knew the answer to that.

Speaker 7 (19:05):
One, Like you worked so hard to find it.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
It's just like wow, you know, I mean, she she
led them to it, like she could have just been
like nah, that that's his problem.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
But that's but that's a good point, right, all all
these male police officers feeling driven, let's search this gentleman.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yes, yes, and you the primary the primary focus in
quotes to salvage any chance of his dignity. And that's
why the primary focus was to go find the penis
to salvage and her dignity.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
With that.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah. So yeah, cs I ended up going to that apartment. Yes,
he lost.

Speaker 6 (19:53):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
He tried to later on say well, I wasn't in
the financially, I wasn't in the financial position to abuse her,
like she was the word winner.

Speaker 7 (20:04):
So whatever.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
But yeah, anyway, so nine hours, two bathroom breaks, and
for each doctor, and she gets a rape kit done.
In that test, they say they can tell that she
had intercourse, but not necessarily the rape. Now, unfortunately, and
this is the first biggest offense to this woman from
the public, okay, from the public, not from him, from

(20:26):
the public. She was not given a translator. Okay, So
one of the things she said, she was not given
a translator. So when they asked her about what happened,
one of the things she said was he never lets
me finish. He does what he wants to do, and
he doesn't carify orgasm. Now that sounds bad, but like

(20:48):
you know, you can't just do that if you're sexually frustrated,
but and.

Speaker 8 (20:52):
She's also very emotional. It's very traumatic experience. Yes, what
do you say when you're getting like grilled to this.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Questions and English is not your first language, and you
were not provided a translator for an accurate testimony, I
should say testimony. So all this was happening, if they
finally get it all fixed up nine hour surgery, she
told them about the abuse of marriage. He was controlling,
abusing her in every way. He considered her property and

(21:18):
she was this tiny Ecuadorian immigrant woman. He was her
first love. She got her green card because of him,
and he raped her constantly and later on, oh, okay, okay,
this does I don't know why she grabbed those two
things on the way out, but like whatever, I mean,

(21:38):
that is no play. I mean, I think she was
blacked out.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Right, I was going to I think that speaks to
her mental state, right, like she just needed to get
out of there, probably grab the first thing, because they
didn't even say did she grab her wallet.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Or anything, just one hundred dollars and which you know
was a lot back then, but still the next the
next morning, the story spread and it was the first
time Penis has ever been printed in the New York Times,
wife cuts off your husband's penis?

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Shut up?

Speaker 5 (22:09):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (22:10):
The New York Times scandal about whether or not they
were allowed to say it on the news, Like there
was a whole section where they were all trying to
determine how do we what do we call this? Because
no one knew there are you know what seven words
you can't say on TV?

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Whatever?

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Right, Like, can we even put this in print? It's
never been done before.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
Yeah, Jen, you, you and I can sympathize when when
the headline was you know, Trump saying grabbed them by
the P word, and there was a big media to
do over.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Can we say it, how do we say it? How
do we refer to it? You know? Yeah?

Speaker 7 (22:43):
And the way doctors talk about it too, like, well
we use the word it should be used, you know.
The so but yeah, she's one of the things the
media had to think about when covering this game, among
other stage.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Which is insane. But so she I think her lawyers
thought that her being interviewed by Vanity Fair would be
good for her, But I don't know if it helped
to her. I mean, obviously she was We'll get to
that later, but you know, it court wise, it ended
up it's fine for her in that respect, like she
wasn't convicted and serving twenty years and or deported her

(23:20):
those options.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
I mean, certainly the Vanity Fair article was not sympathetic.
You know, they're taking photos of her in a pool, like,
what the hell they want?

Speaker 2 (23:31):
What I think it was a photographer thinking, But yeah.

Speaker 7 (23:34):
I think also in my mindset, there was an interview
by the Washington Post reporter who said that you know,
they were you know, usually victims of crimes are not
supposed to be their names are not supposed to be
released at all. But clearly that did not happen in
this sensationalized case.

Speaker 8 (23:49):
And the reason.

Speaker 7 (23:49):
One of the reasons was he said that she had
hired a publicist, so it talks of how to cover
this and how to mention her. They were like, well,
fair game.

Speaker 8 (23:57):
She hired a publicist, which means you know, her name
is going to be released.

Speaker 7 (24:01):
So I thought that was really interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
In the case, they tried to make it out to
be like, oh, well, she did this because he was
bad at sex or a man that he's leaving, and
his answer kept changing. He's saying he's innocent. The article
from New York Times did mention rape like wife accuses
husband of rape. But everyone started making really dark jokes
like a cut above.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
The rest and just she really took a stab at it.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, yeah, everyone was joking about, including Steve Harvey Oprah.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
I do I do remember from that time. This is
kind of dating myself, but seeing on PBS Mark Russell
and he's saying when Lorena bob, it goes bob Bob
bob in a long like yeah, yeah, everybody, and for her.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Name was not supposed to get released, like because in
like they don't get their name published. But because both
of them charged had charges against each other, the journal
was caught wind because of the media lawyer and the
lawyer got ahead of it. So that's when they did
the Vanity Fair article. You know, they were both arrested,
no jail. Yeah, they had her in her swimsuit. Okay,

(25:09):
So when we get to the trial, he goes first.
They're going to try him first again with mattal rape
because I think Virginia was one of the few states
that did like you could charge someone with that, and
they tried to do this whole he's a poor man,
he's an emasculated cook and she's the villainous hag, right.
That was the that was what they were trying to

(25:31):
frame this as. And she she had things working against
her in that core case because she didn't get to interview,
she had language and cultural barrier issues, and he maintained
that she was abusive. He was just protecting himself from
her blows. Now, I'm just gonna put this out here
because I did not care. I care for this part.

(25:51):
But her mother actually called the cops and said it
was her at certain points when it was like him
starting it, and if like Larena reacted to it, her
mother would call the her like your mother.

Speaker 7 (26:01):
Maybe a generational thing because they take this, you know
what I mean, Like they're like a generational Latin thing
where they might take the side of the men. I
don't know. I just feel like, why would she call
on her daughter like a cut her side? I guess
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
It may very well baby.

Speaker 8 (26:19):
Defending herself and retaliating, and so yeah, she might have
fought back and it looked bad for her in that moment.
But you know, by any means necessary, when you're abuse,
sometimes you'll do whatever it takes to protect yourself, hence
cutting the penis.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, and I think she and.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
The mom must have just had some sort of contentious
relationship because I think she.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Ended up punching her in the face in nineteen seven.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Okay, there you go.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, nineteen seven, she was arrested for punching her mother
in the face while watching TV.

Speaker 7 (26:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, I'm just kind of like, I see, Oh my god,
I see why now?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, I mean, I don't I'm gonna have a hot
take here if I were learning. And after this whole
trial was over and Lorena settled into her new life,
she got all her family in for Ecuador from Ecuador,
and I would not have got that mother in. But
that's just it, that's just me.

Speaker 8 (27:12):
No, I agree.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
So back in this time period, there were really no
domestic violence shelters. I think there was like one, and
it was pretty far from her. So at the same time,
a lot of you know, there were some big media
stories at the time, joy, but if you go with
Amy Fisher, Tanya Harding, O, J Simpson, Selena like all
these well, no, Selena was two years later. But anyway,

(27:36):
big big trials were happening. So the nineties was kind
of rife in this hell.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, that was like happened right before this, Yeah, just
a couple of years before, and you know, just sort
of remember everything that they made her go through. And
by they, I mean are congressional leaders who like sat
there and grilled Anita Hill about yes, this horrenda experience,
you know, and it was just absolutely disrespectful and she

(28:05):
she was blamed right for it. And she was also blamed,
you know, and essentially told by who later became our president,
right that she is ruining this poor man's you know, career.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Can I just tell you that Ginny Thomas, Clarence Thomas's
current wife, who was at January sixth, just putting that
out there, just putting her out there for a second.
She actually said the before when Trump I think was
still in office, but this said nothing to do with Trump.

(28:40):
She said that. To this day, she's so angry at
Naita Helen. She wants to confront her for these lies
and you know, these accusations because of what it almost
did to her family. And it's like, ma'am, do you
know what that woman went through, not just with him,
with the media.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
My god, I sit down.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So January tenth, ninety four, John goes to trial and
they bring in the test that said that she had
intercourse at night. He denied it. He said that she
wanted it, and he refused. His story kept changing the
whole thing. He didn't remember it lies, right, because it's lies.
So in this during his trial, it's a media frenzy.

(29:20):
So there's news clips everywhere, merchandise being sold outside. Just
this woman could not get a break from the stimuliation.
She was not trying to capitalize on any of it,
by the way, any of.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
It as opposed to John Right, who had that neighbor
who made the shirts and had him sign the shirts.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes, oh and he signed steak knives.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Oh Jesus.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (29:39):
It was in Virginia.

Speaker 7 (29:40):
They called it Battle the Bobbit apparently.

Speaker 8 (29:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
So he tried to say he went to a club,
he wasn't intoxicated. Laurena attacked him because she was unsatisfied.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Well, he said that he just had like one shot
and then a friend had a whole different but then
he just he was just like it was like a
sweet it was like a fruity like it wasn't it
wasn't it wasn't anything that he described it. I can't
remember what it was, and it's actually three different types
of alcohol in one So sir again.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
I think he said he had one. His friend is like, well,
you know, we had three and we had like five beers.
This one he's like, no, I had like one beer
and one drink. It was, yeah, well when he was
drunk enough not to remember like none of his.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Story, right, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
One of my friends. It was years ago when I
would go out drinking with my friends. One of them
said they were stumbling, and I said, ye're right, then
I just had one drink. I said, a long island
iced teeth.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Oh my god, I cannot be that bad, but those
are killer.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
So on the side, so so he's she was saying,
he pinned her down and so they Oh. The judge said,
the only evidence that can be brought to this trial
are things that happened five days before and five days after.
So right, so you can't encount for the years of

(31:03):
history of abuse, and.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
What is the reasoning behind that?

Speaker 1 (31:07):
It's not really it was a law.

Speaker 7 (31:08):
It was the law that they had.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
It screws over cases. But she was in those five
days she was trying to get an order for protection against.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Him, Okay, so that was happening. Yeah, that's a little insane.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
Doctor.

Speaker 8 (31:24):
I think That's something else I just wanted to add,
is that a lot of people who are commentary of
commenting on the case, likely men, would just say, why
couldn't she just leave? And it's like, it's not that simple.
It's sometimes you just can't leave.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
And she tried, she tried, and then I think financially
like they just had to and they would try, and
then I don't even kept finding her.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, right, Because that's also another thing about right,
It's not just that the person who's abused keeps returning
to it. It's that the abuser keeps coming, you know,
keeps coming back and threatening.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Right. So, well, there was in the five days that
happened beforehand, he did rape her, and he said forced
sex excites him, and she had ripped underwear and a
doctor said he didn't think she was raped, and he
thinks that those were scissor That was sister work on
her part to make that underwor look like that, and
no outward signs of rape in as far as her
mental state was concerned, according to this doctor. So he

(32:22):
kept changing his story. Then he said they did have sex,
but he was so tired in a sleep, and he
wasn't charged like for all of that quick and surprised. Okay,
So when it came to her trial, so he was
found not guilty, and I think it was mostly women
on a jury. It was mostly women on the jury.

(32:45):
And so then her trial starts and she was told
if she pleads guilty, like she could just serve four months,
but she would lose any chance of a visa, and
she heard her residency in the US would be threatened.
But if she was convicted. She pleaded not guilty, and
she was convicted twenty years and she just.

Speaker 7 (33:07):
To highlight one thing about this is that his trial
was not televised at all of hers was, and I
think that also might have I mean death, that's huge.

Speaker 8 (33:20):
He was on trial for domestics, what.

Speaker 7 (33:22):
Was it, marital rapt marital rake and no television cameras whatsoever.
But because of her act, the crime, you know, so unnatural,
they had the cameras in the courtroom and kind of
think like, that's really interesting.

Speaker 8 (33:38):
Why could they both get the same exact dannus.

Speaker 7 (33:41):
I guess in that sense, But I guess when you
think about the nineties, that wasn't going to happen. I
don't like the media.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, well, the nineties loved crazy women. That's that was
their angle. Every woman's crazy. So even like Japanese media
flew in to cover this case, Lorena's case specifically, and
the same prosecutor, by the way, guys same prosecutor for
his case and her case, which kind of blows my
mind a little bit.

Speaker 7 (34:07):
I wouldn't fly nowadays.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
I don't wait.

Speaker 8 (34:11):
Yeah way.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
So she would ask for help from her coworker. She
would show her wounds and the torture he put her through,
like he wouldn't raise a kid with an ugly hispanic
and he would he would say, oh, well, I didn't
abuse her. I just pushed and shoved her around like
everything would change with him with his answers. And people
just didn't know what domestic violence looked like at the time.
And she said every day she felt like she was

(34:35):
being ripped open, and she called because she didn't want
him to die from the bleeding. Like she ended up
calling the police. And you know, I think they brought
in a doctor the defense team, like they know the
prosecution against her. They brought in a doctor who originally
said that he didn't think she was. She didn't have

(34:57):
temporary insanity or irresistible impulse. Irresistible impulse. Then he saw
with which if you've seen clips of her child, it's
probably one of the most painful things you could see
because you really can see her like her PTSD right there.
So the doctor then came back and said, I retract
that this woman clearly had PTSD from this from this

(35:20):
abusive marriage. So like you're look, the prosecution's own doctor
didn't about face after seeing testimony, like nopeely.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Can me talk about the expert witness that turned that around?

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Right? So in that five day window, you have that
customer in in in the nail salon. And at first
it seems, at least I saw the Amazon series of Lorena.
At first, it seemed like she was just gonna be
some sort of Karen. She's like, oh, my nails are
screwed up and my eyebrows were on even But then
you realize she's very she's very sympathetic. She realized like

(35:54):
the she saw and again a few days before the crime,
she rolled up her Lorena rolled up her sleeves. They
were covered with bruises, and she was just like shaking
and clearly just so mentally not there. And it was
that eyewitness testimony that helped convince that doctor that wait

(36:16):
a second, this is this is someone with PTSD, this
is someone really mentally impacted.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Right, And she had called the prosecutor when John was
on trial, but it was too late, and he told
her to call the defense when it was Lorena's turn
for her trial, and when she went up and testified,
he refused to like, what do you call it a
cross examiner because he actually knew, like he's guilty, right,

(36:43):
So even the prosecutor had been like he'd been flipped,
like he knew.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
That this was right.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
And feminist and women organizations came to her defense because
he got let off from his crime and oh so
got off. Yeah, oh I'm sorry, I retracted let off.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But sorry.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
The two qualifiers her marital rape at the time you
had to be separated, wow, And you had to live
in different houses, and you had to have significant damage
like blood and bruises.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Jesus.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
So if you weren't separated sol apparently, and that was
most states didn't eat at the time, didn't even have
marital rate. But Virginia just happened to allow it under
those very specific circumstances. The jury came back pretty quickly
and they ruled that she was not guilty, and she
was sentenced to forty five days in a hospital. I

(37:46):
think she only served thirty eight and she kept low
after that. Him, on the other hand, Boy, where was this.
I'm going to just say this motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Though this like.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
All all puns intended the balls on this dude. Yeah, okay, Well, well.

Speaker 5 (38:09):
First off, the name that he was given, John Wayne,
last name Bob, it like just he's he's He was
just like served these cards and he did.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
He just took such the easy route of spectacle and.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
It's in a brothel porn.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
He did porn and then they were to show it off. Yeah,
well that's too. He had to make sure it works
the one that lived. So things that were not admissible
in his trial were admitted in her trial. So co
workers would give Lorena pamphlets. They knew she was in trouble,
they knew she wasn't okay. Neighbors knew.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
They found those pamphlets when they searched the house.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
And his friends testified that they knew John said he
liked hurting women and they he liked when they were
crying and forced sex on them. So his own friends
said that to him, and everything was like reliving her trauma.
It was like really hard to watch. So he was
fine for a while.

Speaker 5 (39:19):
Actually, wait, I just want to backtrack just for a second,
because millions of people saw this trial live. I don't
have direct memories of it, but I do know my
mom loved her some court TV. So like she probably
you know that that one witness was saying that she
was folding laundry while watching it. Like, I know my

(39:40):
mom was watching this trial and like I while folding laundry,
and I just cannot believe what it was like to
be sitting there in front of the TV, watching live
like somebody break down describing their physical abuse.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
And people were watching this for weeks.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah you know, I just the jury came back very
quick for.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Her, Yeah it did. But but but but again, It's
just like she.

Speaker 9 (40:04):
Would ask him, well, she would capitalizing on this, yes, yes,
but she would.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Ask him, how can you do this to me? Again
and again and again. And this is when the public
started to really realize that abuse is cumulative. You know,
trauma is culative. It can take years and years for
people to realize this is bad. This is bad. And
I think the opening statement for Lorena's defense attorney was
a life is more valuable than a penis. Yes, that

(40:32):
was her opening statement, which I thought was.

Speaker 7 (40:35):
Really interesting to use because what is the focus on
the penis ratter than the act itself. The context of
the whole case was his abuse. And I just feel like,
I don't know, I just her saying that, I'm like,
well she did about the penis, Now, I don't know that's.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I mean, there were there were things that were not
admitted that were they actually did in the five days
he was controlling her. She had rugburns, goose eggs, he
shoved around, pushing its wall, the gold of stupid Latina,
degrading names, and there were so many witnesses to these
police calls. He was arrested because he gave her a
fat lip and some bruises.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
These are things that in the five days before.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, that's part of testimony or like it was either
not by not by her defense attorney, but by witnesses. Wow,
So like that's I think that's how they got they
got around it. Yeah, they were like, this is not
what the defense can bring up, but that's what the
witnesses get.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Testimony. Yeah, so the.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Hispanic community actually really rallied around her. They were outside
the courtroom and they were supporting her and the freezing
weather out there to do that. So then John starts
admitting to some things. He admits that she was pregnant
but he forced the abortion. He told her he wouldn't
stick around if she kept it, and that she doesn't
deserve him, and he would always threaten her deportation and

(41:55):
immigrant paperwork. He finally admits to shoving and pushing her around,
but not hitting her or for sexy. Kept changing his
story over and over again, and also on documents for
what he was in the military as a lance corporal.
He said, and how how did the military keep him
in for a while, But he said, yes, he admits it,

(42:17):
and that he enjoys four sex. Like what ridiculous.

Speaker 9 (42:22):
She tried to get a tape recorder for her divorce lawyer,
and she so oh she when they were still before
this happened, she would try to get a tape recorder
for a divorce lawyer.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
He found it and beat her over it. And punished
her for having it and told her neighbor that she
needed to move some furniture over because she was leaving him.
Like so this a lot of things were happening for
a long time, Like there's like a history here of
her trying to leave. So all these things happened. So
she did have insanity and irresistible impulse years of abuse.

(42:57):
This was a pivotal point for the jurors. They finally
like rule in her favor. And I think it really
was a cultural shift in some points because I think
it was only two years later that politicians brought up
the Violence Against Women Act because it was becoming more
imparent that you know, the nineteen nineties, I guess it's
a good time to start that. You know, she's better
late than ever, Like what can you imagine?

Speaker 8 (43:19):
It happened the age of talk imagine, I know, right, it's.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
So he would say things like I don't need to
rape her, I'm so good looking, and like a lot
of celebrities came to his defensing there is no excuse
for doing what she did, cutting off his manhatt Whoopy
Goldper actually stood for her. She was one of the
few original ones that was like absolutely not not nope,
this is nuts, this is nuts. You done no.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
But that really was the focus though, because if she
had just like stabbed him in the stomach, no one
would have said, oh my goodness, how could she do
such a thing if she was being abused like it
was because it was his penis that everyone got so
riled up in the first place.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah, they were saying that no matter what, you don't cut.
That was like the thing that people in the middle,
like the media, were saying. So they the media coverage
was really missing the point in the abuse. And he
became a celebrity surprised, and she got help. She got
help from like she got to go to a hospital,
she got to restart her life. She was able to

(44:25):
become a US citizen. So like she did her work quietly,
like you know, just getting her life together. They got
a divorce. And by the way, his trial was three
days hers was twelve.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Wow, And they moved her trial because they wanted it
to be primetime TV. It was originally supposed to be
around Christmas time, and they were like, nobody's going to
watch this if it's on during the holidays. People are
out with their families shopping, we should put this in
the new year when people are going to be home
ready for Core TV to I swear that is why
they moved her trial to the new year.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
And John said to the media during her trial, Mnesssa's virgin,
Please don't cut me short. And they were trying to
go with this whole thing in the media, the latina, hotblooded,
sassy person. There was a lot of racial stereotyping going
on during this trial, so men were starting to get
worried that there would be copycats because she was acquitted

(45:18):
and amusing.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
How about that.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah. In fact, a former attorney that was associated with
Jeffrey Epstein had a long thing to say about her,
which was pretty atrocious. I'm not going to name his name.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Oh god, you're talking.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
About I'm not putting his name out there because I'm
not getting a slight the charge right now.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
It was published, No, it wasn't published. It was not published.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Supposed to be on the cover of Newsweek, and then
something broke. Oh the Tanya Harding thin broke, and then
they didn't publish the article by the lawyer. So my
whole thing here, guys, is when they're taking her testimony,
the indefensible artists, and no one gave her a translator,
so everything that she said that could be used against
her was like purely just her trying to grasp with
her own trauma with limited language skills at this point,

(46:09):
like like how dare you in my like how dare
you do this to this woman? At the times at
the time, like people didn't like to say the word rate.
They would say non consensual sex and they would say
child sex participant instead of child abuse or child sexual abuse,
like they this was what was going on in the

(46:30):
media at the time in journalism, like this is this
is what we were living through, like.

Speaker 8 (46:34):
You know, so.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
She definitely qualified for battered woman syndrome, and she had
the stages of denial and she had guilt. She you know,
there are phases here for women getting out of that,
so she was doing that. So nine women, three men
on hers Laurena had depression and she just kind of

(46:58):
went into seclusion. So okay, so she turned herself in
like she did everything she was supposed to do, and
yet she was the one being treated the worst by
the media and the trials, which was really one out
of three women are abused, Like she just like put
a face to it. You know this, this was ridiculous.
I mean, a lot of things that were happening we
were discussing before. In nineteen eighty nine, battery against women

(47:21):
was not law. Animals had more rights than women. That
was in nineteen eighty nine. Wow, And nineteen ninety one
we have Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. Women were shown
what happens when they come forward, and at the same
time the Kennedy rape case was dismissed. At the same
time nineteen eighty two, the Naval Academy charges were dismissed.

(47:42):
Nineteen ninety three, two thousand women killed by their partners
in the United States and people this Triald's just hit.
The media is so hard that things that were happening
at the time, like Tanya Harding the presidential election, Viewers
were calling TV station saying, why are you putting this up?
Watching we were talking Aboutrena. So what happened to this

(48:07):
asshole after the trial?

Speaker 3 (48:08):
What didn't happen to him?

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, I know he wants to live on a ranch
riding horses. He made a point of being photographed riding
horses because he needed to make sure everyone knew that
it worked because obviously if there were issues, he couldn't
ride the horse anymore. That was the whole thing. And
he had a new girlfriend. So John just like, first

(48:31):
of all, there were let's talk about Howard Stern for
a second.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, okay, So first off, I didn't bring this up. Yeah,
oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:43):
I was just going to say, like we did the
uh Selena episode last season, and I remember how Howard
Stern was like playing gunshots.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Immediately after Howard Stern played gunshots, no decency, no yeah,
so and then for he said, I don't believe that
you raped her. She wasn't pretty enough and like he
had pimples. Why would you hurt? And also his New
Year's Eve special, he did a fundraiser for John to
pay off his medical bills. Mind you, John has not

(49:14):
paid off those surgeons. Desired bankruptcy, yep, declared bankruptcy. Has
not paid those surgeons that put his penis back together
to this day. Oh wow, just put that out there loudly. So, yeah,
one hundred and ninety thousand dollars were raised for him,
and he would like strip in front of Howard Stern,

(49:34):
like showing things that they would bring out Lorena women
out there like sorry, women that looked like Lorena and
or other women. So he was actually I have two
conflicting numbers. It was between one hundred and ninety and
two hundred and sixty thousand that Howard Stern helped to
raise for him.

Speaker 5 (49:51):
Yeah, and also too were these were people who watched
TV and decide to phone in and give their heart money.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yeah, it's a worthy cause exactly. It wasn't like now
where we can just push a button money gets sent.
Like there were decisions. Yeah, you have to take some steps.
You had to take some steps. Yeah, your number in
a credit card, you know, Jack, Like that's insane.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Yeah, and he he made a whole his career after
that was like profiting and mocking his former wife. He
would he would start and porn and it would premiere
in Hollywood with screenings with celebrities would show up to
watch him and his Frank and Penis uh start not
yet before the later well, he would also have porn

(50:39):
specifically with women that look like Reena Lorena and like
the porn would be abusing women that looked like like
he was reliving it. It was a thing he needed,
I guess, and so that was it was terrible. His
manager actually took all of his money. Oh okay, yeah,
John John filed for bankruptcy.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
He was later a reverend and he performed in Vegas.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Oh my god, that's right. I do remember that.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
He did get a penis sixtens.

Speaker 8 (51:07):
Not intelligent, No, din't have a lot of skill. No,
do a lot of jobs.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
He was a bartender. At one point. He was on
parole for robbing something a story.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I believe that's right.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
And h.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
He's been charged with domestic violence against another wife. He
served sixty days. Oh, I'm sorry. He was sentenced to
sixty days and he served fifteen and he got probation
after robbing a store in Nevada. He got prison for
parole violation, battery charges on his new wife, two more charges,
and then he got divorced from her. He was swindled

(51:45):
by the producer. His stuff got disfigured and botched after
the extension. Yeah, he's living off disability checks from the
government after a neck injury and he yeah. Yeah, that
lawyer I was talking about just came back up on
my notes. Women refused to sleep with him because it
was too big, so he broke his neck. Then he

(52:06):
went into the Rocky Mountains to look for a treasure
chest that some billionaire said he buried out there. Very
prison break with this a very prison break thing. If
you've seen the show where the guy who plays dB
Cooper said he buried like money out in the in
the West and like all the prisoners go out there

(52:27):
and it's like, I was like, where is this prison break?
He's going to look for that chest? What are you doing?
So yeah, this case became a joke. Then the media
started going, oh, if your if a wife starts calling
it rape, you're all going to go to prison, Like
that was everyone's biggest concern at the time in the media.
He he was just terrible. So you know, she was
made fun of by like listen, I love Robin Williams.

(52:48):
He made her part of his jokes, yeah, eminem lyrics,
and it was pretty bad. So, oh, he was in
the w He showed up for WWE events, Sorry John
the Bunny Ranch and yeah, doctors never got paid from
He sold merchandise. He goes on tour sometimes, there were

(53:08):
some there were some copycat crimes that happened afterwards, but
they were never like fully executed.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
And then when she says copycat. She's literally putting up
the air quote.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah, I'm saying there's an air quote here. Because most
of these copy cat crimes were self inflicted because people
needed to like prove a point. Look look what'll happened,
Look what will happen?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
And it's like, you know, again, decisions were made.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Right, So it's not like, you know, a woman's like, hey,
you didn't bring home dinner for me. You know, like
that didn't happen. Come on, So what happened on Lorena?
She didn't choose the spotlight like John did. She went
back to school and she went back to her maiden name,
Lorena Gayo, and she found the Larnigayo Foundation. Into twenty eighteen,

(54:03):
she was going through her trauma. She was being laughed
at by the media like minimalized. She was on the
Drew Barrymore Show the last couple of years, and Drew
Barrymore actually extended a fair amount of empathy for her,
like holding her hand, saying we didn't go through the
same thing. But when you're out there living your trauma
and trying to survive, in the media is making a
joke out of you and not helping you, like that

(54:25):
is cruel, and I like the way Drew did that. Yes,
I like the way Drew did that. It's very validating
because it's saying, listen, like I didn't go through a
year going through but I see you, I hear you.
I had a parallel experience. It's not okay, And I'm like,
thanks Drew like that. So she was released. She founded

(54:46):
the Red Wagon Organization, which prevents well tries to help
on domistic violence victims. She's been in a long term
relationship and has a grown like a daughter. I don't
know how old she is, probably a teenager at this point.

Speaker 8 (54:59):
So she Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
She says that he still calls her guys and he
still tries to messagere in a text. Her wants her back.

Speaker 7 (55:06):
They always come back.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Yeah. And then and then he says to the media
like I could forgive her if she could apologize, and
she has flat I think Oprah, Oprah, Okay, sorry f
Oprah for a second, because Oprah still Lorena said, I
don't want to be in any media with him. What
Oprah do? She got them both on stage and he's

(55:29):
like apologizing and she's just like forced to sit next
to her abuser say all these words.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Nine she sucks and.

Speaker 7 (55:42):
Trauma right, Like.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
So she still works in an ailsalon, so she's just
you know, carrying on. She's still in a nassis. She said,
talking about it is easier now. She hates that her
abuse became a joke, but she understands why her crime
was alluring or funny to people, Like she can see it.
But she's like, it's still weird to me that people
laugh at what is going on. She h she she

(56:09):
you know, when she's on shows, like she gets uncomfortable.
She laughs a little bit. You can tell she's really uncomfortable.
She turned a playboy offered her a million dollars to
go be naked, and she turned it down. She literally
just wants to be left alone. Work on her Yeah,
work on her nonprofit, raise her daughter with her partner,
and help victims and do She.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Just wants to live in life man to be traumatized, retraumatized,
Like what, I don't leave the poor woman alone. She
clearly just wants to be left alone.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah, so she she Yeah, she became a US citizen,
she brought her family here. He tries to send her
freaking memes to.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
This day, like, oh, yeah, I read something about that,
and he's like still in love with her and he
tries to send her flowers or Valentine's Day gifts or whatever.
I'm literally just like, yo, the abuse.

Speaker 8 (57:03):
Wants to continue to capitalize on this horrible experience right right.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
And.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
It's really terrible what people were going and what she
went through.

Speaker 5 (57:15):
In the Amazon series, doesn't he say something like, wouldn't
it be the perfect ending if if if she and
I got back together, and like he's talking about it
like it's a TV shows.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Opposed to and didn't didn't she say directly to the
camera like I don't want to talk to you, like
I'm done, Like I'm paraphrasing, but she like she made
it as clear as possible leave me the fly period,
Like they didn't have any children together. There's no reason
to speak to this one again anyway.

Speaker 7 (57:47):
I think about just the cultural impact of the whole
case has like highlighting and that and violence, sexual fault,
public discourse. How how this all played out in the
media is just so fascinating.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yeah, I would love to hear from everybody else after
I did that rundown because I'm just go I'm just
got heated reading that again, Like damn well.

Speaker 7 (58:08):
I have to say, as someone who was in news,
I definitely focused a lot of how the media handled it,
and I thought it was fairly interesting. I also seld
the documentary that Edson Amazon called Marena, and I think
the media they even interviewed a local comedience store God
who's still ice and he claimed I think the penis.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
And it's just so.

Speaker 7 (58:31):
I was like, of course, of course they interviewed the
local uh store involved in this. But getting all the
factors of this case right for the viewers. I just
thought that was fascinating. And someone also who was also like,
it's still in the new business. What did you think
about how the media handled the case.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's interesting how like
like like you said, the media coverage had to get
every single angle of the crime itself, but when it
came to, you know, looking into the background issues, I
mean the points where the women reporters are saying, oh,
I wanted to do a side piece about domestic violence,

(59:09):
and the mostly male editors were like, nobody would care
about it. Yeah, I mean, this is this is one
big terrible lesson in you know, sometimes the media focuses
on one thing, they won't let it go, and as
opposed to looking at the bigger picture, right, they're just like, Okay,

(59:29):
well the Bobby case is done, let's move on to
Tanya Harding. It's it's just like one spectacle weirdness after
another that they want to cover.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, real quick, Well do you have anything to say
before you have to go?

Speaker 10 (59:42):
I think after that incident, men were terrified of Hispanic women.
I think they they Yeah, she said, ane for us,
for real, you know, to mess with us, you know.

(01:00:03):
I think everything that happened to her was very traumatizing.
At that time, there wasn't a lot of domestic violence cases.
There wasn't a lot of Latino women who spoke out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
She really set the.

Speaker 8 (01:00:19):
Tone in the in the right way.

Speaker 7 (01:00:22):
She could have went about it totally different. And I
really commend her for what she has done and the
impact that.

Speaker 8 (01:00:31):
She making.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Even to this day, like she continues to do her foundation.
So kudos to her. And that's really you guys have
covered so much. I really appreciate like all your input
in this, and I think just getting her story out
there is important. You know, what she went through back
then women are still going through today. But there's more

(01:00:55):
of a voice, and she was really the starting person
for Latina women who really come out of that. And uh,
she's very fortunate with the trial that she had that
you know, everything surrounding it, because the courts are very
black and white, and what she did at the end

(01:01:16):
of the day was a crime, and she still you know,
was not guilty. You know, people were behind her, people
felt her pain, her trauma and everything that she went through.
So she you know, you know, she she did very
well for herself and that trial like that was that
made a difference for everybody. So that's all I really

(01:01:40):
have to say is that obviously what she.

Speaker 8 (01:01:42):
Did is iconic and will never be forgotten.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
And then for me, like I know, just dating and
being married, and you know, there there's always like that
comment like, oh, you know, I got to be careful
around a bad woman.

Speaker 7 (01:02:00):
So thanks for her. That will always be history.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Thanks and Jenny Christine, whatever you guys want to say,
let us know. So Lilyan just had.

Speaker 8 (01:02:20):
About the Virginia State Prosecutor Paul Eber. He did not
cross examine that key witnessed the nail salon patron. He
really and and and part of the reason is because
you know, Lorena was abused, especially abused. He did not
want her Lorena to be prosecuted. I thought that was

(01:02:44):
very interesting and it just shows like this is like
the state prosecute is doing his job, but he's also
a very good man, like he wants he wanted to
get Oh god, John Bobs like bob it I can't
even say his name, but yeah, I just I was
watching the Amazon Prone documentary and when I saw that

(01:03:06):
portion of Evert not not even asking any questions to
that woman, I was like, oh my god, he really
does not want to prosecute Marina. He wants her to
go for you like she's a victim and the crime
is is abused, it's rape. Another interesting thing that I
found was the National Organization of Women thought that you know, oh,

(01:03:27):
these journalists will come to us now because this is
this case is huge because it sheds the light on
abusive women. But no, they were a circus.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
So I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:03:40):
I just wanted to touch on that a little bit.

Speaker 7 (01:03:43):
Yeah, go ahead, Oh no, I was just gonna say,
I imagine if you know, it took her action of
cutting her husband's enith in order, it's been graying for
the spotlight domestic violence and abuse, like it had to
go back far enough to be like, I can't take
this anymore. And I imagine if that never happened.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Where would you be right now?

Speaker 8 (01:04:03):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
It's that level of.

Speaker 7 (01:04:05):
Act that I feel like that should probably happen. I mean,
you wouldn't.

Speaker 8 (01:04:09):
I just wonder, you know, Wall probably didn't have to
change honestly, very.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Well saved her life. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Yeah, it's amazing to me that they said that, They
said I could forgive her. She like apologized to me.
It's like, what does she ever have to owe you?

Speaker 8 (01:04:28):
Sir?

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
She owes you literally like you're lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
She called the cops self awareness.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
He could have bled out self awareness.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Yeah, which, you know, I think we will include some
resources in our show notes, absolutely, because this is, you know,
all jokes aside. I know we have been laughing number
one about the situation and also kind of like some
of the things the media circus around it. But domestic
violence is an incredibly serious, serious issue, and for anyone

(01:05:03):
who may feel like they're suffering in silence, right it's
I hope that from the story, what we also can
gather is that, you know, You're not alone. There are
places that you can go. There are people who really
want to be able to help. You know, we hear you,
we see you seek help, We love you. Don't feel

(01:05:27):
like you're on your own.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
This case is just sort of like further evidence of
of well, like the culture right of like how we
keep putting women on trial. It may as well have happened,
you know, during the Salem witch trials for you know,
for all I can gather, right So, so just know
that there's that there's help out there, and that there

(01:05:52):
there is a way. There is a way out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Absolutely. And this episode is airing on Thanksgiving, so I
hope everyone enjoys the food today and then three days ago.
The reason we're having this episode this week is because
on November twenty fifth is Domestic Violence Awareness Day in
the United States, and we really need to pay homage
to our survivors, tell their story, and provide resources for

(01:06:17):
anyone who is, you know, they want to reach out.
Does anyone else have anything else they want to add or?

Speaker 8 (01:06:25):
Thank you so much for shining a light on this again.
Thank you, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
My last remaining comment is it and I think what
I think a Christiiner Jenny mentioned that, you know, imagine
this if this had happened during like the TikTok generation,
because I've mentioned this before when we did the Menina's
Brothers episode, where like, it really is amazing how much
a generation can change the perspective on a historical event
or even like a crime. Because Loreen and Gyo, she

(01:06:52):
deserved and I'm gonna say Gayo, I'm not referring to
her by a previously married name anymore. She deserved so
much more from the media, from the public, from her husband, like,
she just deserved so much. She just deserved a much
better life than that. She had more love from her marriage,
a life without fear, a fair trial, and a legacy
based on her advocacy for domestic violence victims, not based

(01:07:15):
on her trauma and her you know, her PTSD. Yeah,
so she never deserved to be a laughing stock or
treated worse than her monster of abuser. So today we
unpacked this episode of Lorena Gaio and John Wayne Bobbitt
to commemorate Domestic Violence Awareness Day, and we should never
forget the struggles and the non existent protection women received

(01:07:37):
from our wallmakers before they took it seriously so that's
what I have to say. Okay, so thank you, thank
you so much for joining us today. I hope you
guys can join us in the future for episodes. We'd
love to have a true crime episode every season.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
I have just a little housekeeping. I think we're good.
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(01:08:21):
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(01:08:43):
and our ancestors who has disabilities join us next week.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Thank you, Bye bye,