Rediscovering Latinidad Season 6 Episode 5 La Ciudadanía por descendencia y más

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Dear listeners, we are excited to have you join us
for another season of Rediscovering Latini Dan. We hope you
enjoy this sixth season as we port a tremendous amount
of time, research, and loyalty into our episodes. We also
know that these are unprecedented times, and then many of
our listeners or their family members may be living in
fear and certainly anger about the recent developments with immigration, deportation,

(00:35):
and birthright citizenship. We hold space for all of the
emotions here, and we hope the information we provide you
will help you not only in your journey to discovering
your ancestors, but also leading you to documentation that may
secure your safety. We will list all resources in the
show notes and update them as we uncover more. Now,
we hope you enjoy this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hey, welcome back to Rediscovering Latini Dods Season six, Episode five.
We are talking all things citizenship, naturalization. It's gonna be fun.
Let's introduce ourselves. Hey, I'm Edward, I'm Fausto, I'm j Lisa.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
And I'm Ria Rose. Thank you for joining us today.
I'm gonna say to you, guys, last week's episode is
kind of heavy all right, I'm glad you came back.

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Guys, came back everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
I think for this episode, I really want to come
at it well. I mean, I want to give our
listeners an understanding of citizenship and what I mean as
far as citizenship in other countries and the process, what
it sounds like, the different types how to find these records.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And we need a little bit of history and context. Yes,
and all leave that because there's there's gonna be an
upcoming debate about what birthright citizenship is, should it still
be legal? So we're going to walk you through that too.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes, So I have a small piece I just wanted
to write. I will leave this history to Edward, but
then I will help the listeners. Actually, you know what,
We will all talk about how to find records, because
that's what we all know best. But one little thing
I did, right. We have spent many hours and even
years sifting through records, hearing folklore and stories, maybe even
visiting our parents, grandparents, ancestors, homelands. Each time we drift

(02:27):
back to this purpose of acquainting with our homelands, it
immerses into us and us into our heritage. What do
we want to do with this knowledge, with this excitement, fascination,
and wanderlust for a place we feel in our veins.
Do we have plans to move there, to buy property,
to pursue education abroad, to vote in elections that will
impact our communities. All of these questions weigh in our minds. Now,

(02:50):
tell me how would it feel to return to the
homeland with antention and wisdom to no escape and leave
in the midst of war like our families did, but
to use our recent sources and abilities to return home
and claim what is rightfully ours our birthright. Having used
my research and ambition to secure dual and multi citizenship
for my family, I can say this is a generational gift.

(03:13):
We reject assimilation and consciously return home in our hearts
and in paperwork, and help continue the lines across the
world for our future descendants. Join us today as we
discuss citizenship. All right, First things first, I'm stuck here,
so let's just stuck here. I don't know what Edward's
intentions are for the future. I am a new dual

(03:36):
citizens and as our listeners know from our last episode,
Falsta is also a dual citizen.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
I am, indeed a dual citizen.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
But you guys, with your endless possibilities, we'll slow down.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Well, fast I mean he can talk for himself. But
Fasto was actually born in the Dominican Republic and when
his mother very long story short, and when his mother
became a citizen, he then, as a minor, was a
citizen and has a US.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Passport, which you could keep your Dominicans, Yes, yes, I
could keep We could keep our Dominican citizenship only because
the Dominican president who came into in ninety nineteen ninety
six passed a law that allowed for dual citizenship. So
before that you would have to renounce your Dominican citizenship
and technically, excuse me, technically for the US government you

(04:30):
have renounced because that's why.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
You have renounced allegiance like you know, like it's in
like I guess Warde right, you renamesed allegiance to it.
You can hold dual citizenship with a lot of countries
around the world, but you are you were pledging.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Allegiance tools to the United States.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Correct, you know, every every country that we're going to
mention hence its own rules, its own type of citizenships
and obligations.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Briar, can you talk about your story about getting dual citizenship.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
So I mentioned in our previous episode, my grandmother, born
in El Salvador, was able to get a green card,
and longer story short, my father came in on his
father's green card that was through my grandmother, and my
father was here on a green card in nineteen ninety two.
My father was a US citizen. Now, my father and
I have different memories of this, okay, So he always

(05:23):
said that he had to renounce El Salvador citizenship and
he's only a US citizen, only US citizen, blah blah blah.
And I was like, all right, no problem. I didn't
look into it any further. Now, put that on the side.
I remember being in when we moved into our house.
My grandmother actually got citizenship in the early two thousands.

(05:45):
So she came to live here in the United States
from El Salvador on her green card in nineteen ninety three.
And I remember, I remember specifically. I mean, she doesn't
speak a lot of English, but I remember walking through
all the questions with her as a child and a teenager,
and and honestly, I'm not entirely sure how much of
it was just memory versus language. Comprehension. But she I

(06:11):
think she made to the very At the very end,
I was I think I had gotten busy, which teenager
stupid ship. But there were many many nights I worked
with my grandmother, Maya Beolita to get her to go
through the test and the questions. Because for the US
citizenship you do need to there is a test. You
do have a test. There is a criminal background check, yes,

(06:32):
there's you got to go through some steps to become
a US citizen.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah exactly. It's not just like you go to the
post office and a US passport.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
No, no, no, In fact, that's like that doesn't even
come with your US citizenship, even if you get you
a citizenship piece.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
Yes exactly, it's not undramatic.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
So that being said, so she gets her US citizenship
that and I assumed, I assumed at the time that
she had to relinquish her as one like my dad
as far as I know. Now getting into genealogy research,
I was like I stumbled upon something and they were like,
you know that if your parent was born in El Salvador,
you are You're a Salvadorian citizen. You just considered a

(07:13):
foreign birth, that's it. But you are for all Inton's
I don't know if I could run for office down there,
but you are considered one. So you just literally fill
out the paperwork to just state it in writing because
they maybe they don't have the record of the foreign birth,
but because the foreign birth did happen, you are a
Salvadorian citizenship by rule. So that being said, I was like, hmm, interesting, interesting.

(07:37):
Now I have my reasons. I have my reasons for
long term pursuing that that's not been accomplished at that point.
But how did it work out for me? Great question.
Alsavador is also pretty tricky because you know how any
of us we just get our birth certificate one time
and just carried around or put in our file cab

(08:00):
and pull it when you need it. Right, non, al Savador,
your birth certificate is valid for one year. If it
passes the one year mark, you got to get another
one from the Alkadia, which is the town hall in Alsavador.
So if you try to go to that embassy with
a birth certificate from your parent that is eighteen months old, no,
you better come with a new one and you better go.
You can only get that from El Salvador, So have

(08:22):
fun going Al Savador going through in Alcadia pulling that
record and you better get back there before that twelve
month mark. So that being said, okay, I was able
to get a family member down there that lives near
you know, near our one of our properties down there,
and she went to the Alcadia for me. I was
very lucky I didn't have to go down there. So
she found it, she shipped it. I reimbursed and compensated

(08:45):
because I was happy about that. I had to get
a long form version of my birth certificate, not my
regular US certificate, because what we all know here for
the US born ones is that the ber certificate that
you probably are carrying around is a short form one.
Doesn't have all the details of the doctor, of the hospital,
of this that it just has like basics. But the embassy,

(09:08):
whether you go to a Savador or you do it
here in the US and an embassy, you need the
long form one. And a lot of times they're going
to tell you. Now, if I were to take all
the documents that I'm about to talk about, if I
were to take them and get my citizenship and L
Savador in l Savador, like, if I went down there
with these documents. I would need to have them formally
translated into Spanish and get them apostled. And I think

(09:31):
one other thing that I'm drawing a blank on right now, sorry, apostle. Yeah,
it's basically a statement saying this, this document is being
used for international purposes for this specific country at this time.
And you got to go. I went, you go down
to William Street for that.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
Form and yeah, you know what's so thank you Edward
for who has Yeah, just like who didn't know that?

Speaker 3 (09:57):
No, it's it's I had to go. I had to
go get my marriage certificate because my name changed when
I got married, so I had to get get a
long form and my marriage certificate, and then I had
to take my marriage certificate to a thing across the street.
I think I went to Lafayette Street for the certificate,
and then I had to go to something street literally

(10:18):
right across the street. Then I had to take the
bus and train down to William Street to go get
that apostle. Only to find out that because I was
doing this at a US embassa and not down in Alsavador,
I did not need all of that. All I needed
was the long forms. I didn't even need it translated
at the embassy. That being said, you live and learn.
So I get a long form of my birth certificate.

(10:40):
First thing I did was get the short form. Then
I had to go back and get the long form.
Then I get my marriage certificate long form. I get
my father's birth certificate from Alsavador, which I had to
pay someone for, which is fine. It's still cheaper than
getting a plane ticket and getting down there. It's fine.
Now this is a complication on my family's specific part.
But my mother was born to my grandmother and my

(11:04):
biological grandfather, my maternal one. He left the picture when
she was about five. She never saw him again. They
tried to find him so she could get it. My
grandmother could get a divorce and remarry a divorce guy
with four kids. Never found him. Divorce was granted anyway,
and when my grandmother married the second time, her husband
adopted my mom. So when you go through adoption, and

(11:27):
I'm not sure everyone's aware of this, when you go
through adoption, your cer certificate is supervised, so the father
on your birth certificate and gets changed even though it's
not your biological one. So there's called a pre adoption
certificate and a post adoption. Now the post adoption one,
they don't really even like to carry. If people have
post adoption berstificates, they really don't like to carry that.

(11:49):
At the town clerks, like your local town clerks in
like NASA County or New York, I should say you
really should be going through Albany. They're probably gonna give
you a hard time at your local town hall that
you the birth happened, but your pre adoption certificate, at
least in New York locked up in Albany. You are
not getting that until you apply formally through Albany. So

(12:11):
this is what's going to get complicated. I had to
wait eight months, no seven months from my mother's post
adoption birth certificate to come in from Albany post adoption.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Hold on, sorry part of my interruption, Why did you
need your mother's information if she's not Salvador.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
They need they need both parents, Wow, they need both parents.
Long form birth certificates and identification valid can't be expired.
So my mom had a license, so we took a
picture of the license. My dad brought his license, she
brought her license. I was worried they were going to
ask for passports because my parents' passports have long since expired.

(12:47):
They haven't been traveling, but they didn't ask for that.
But they did ask for my per certificate. Literally as
soon as they saw my long form, my parents' birth certificates,
my parents' ID cards fifteen dollars in the in the US,
the Salvador in US embassy fifteen dollars cash, and I am.
I got a new I got a paperwork saying this

(13:09):
is going to be registered in two weeks in El Salvador.
And in two weeks I can order a copy from
some website that was not working, and I had to
give in and get my dad asked his friend's mother
in Son Salvador to go and get my certificate and
mail it. So now my father has my official El
Salvador birth certificate, which is not a birth certificate, it

(13:31):
is literally a foreign birth register.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
So that being said, now that I am a full
Salvadorian citizen now, well not a full I'm a I'm
doing now that I am a dual citizen. Now my
daughter is a dual citizen.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
Wow, she just is?

Speaker 3 (13:51):
She just is now?

Speaker 4 (13:52):
And what is what is that law call? It's that
French term de blood yes, versus right the Jews.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Okay, no, juice Lee is by birth, so you would
actually have to be born there. So like my right,
my father is by juice Lee. He was born in Santana.
I am you know for me? Yeah, I am jes
because I was born here. But I still have every
right my father has.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
So it's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
So it's going to carry down through the generations, like
nor is child Wow, I.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Mean yeah, yeah, you just have to know that.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
That's that's that's fascinating. I mean technically, that's again the
same situation as the United States that this current administration
is trying to overturn. But it's it's which amendment is
the fourteenth Amendment? Fourteen that oh no, no, no, no, go
go ahead, go ahead. Do you have more context? Oh
I do? Okay, please do? All right?

Speaker 2 (14:56):
So with juice, so if you're born here, what does
that mean? Yeah, so that's the that's the people who
are born soil, they get the rights of the country
where they are born, where they popped out of their mom.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah. Yeah, the soil or sal versus what we're hearing.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
With family is like my family is.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Wind blood blood, Briar's magic salth adorances.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yes, that's right, it really can. So like now I
am fully registered down there, nor is officially a citizen.
I mean she's a citizen just because I am.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, and I'm sorry. Okay, ahead, going back to birthright citizenship.
How old. Here's a little game. How old do we
think it is in the United States. Let's take a guess.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
What which one? The where you are born, you have
the rights since eighteen sixty something. Okay, any other guests, I.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Want to say seventeen states.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
Since you were born you have the rights if you
were born in Land? Okay, all right? Oh lord, oh
got your The enter is sixteen eight six.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Because of you know, our law is based on English
common law, and English common law you have in sixteen
o eight the case Calvin's case. What happened was the
after Elizabeth Tudor died, her cousin the King of Scotland,
James the First, also became the King of England. So
there was a legal case where this Scottish boy was

(16:33):
going to inherit English Land. So the English courts had
to decide could this Scottish kid have English rights? And
they decided yes, because the sovereign is the head of
because you know, this singular man is the head of
both Scotland and England. Therefore he has the rights as

(16:54):
a subject of the crown. Now, even before that, in
sixteen oh seven, James the First made an agreement for
the first Virginia settlers. He gave them an agreement that
they have quote the same liberties as residents of England.
So technically, from the very start of this country we've
been having this natural citizenship.

Speaker 6 (17:18):
Hense representation and all of that.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah that I've written, no taxation without representation.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Now move ahead into the crown. We have the Civil War.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Suddenly we've freed the formerly enslaved folk, and so we
have the fourteenth Amendment, which gets passed, and it is
and I quote all persons. Oh, and it gets passed
in eighteen sixty eight. States had this rule, like New
York apparently had a similar rule in eighteen forty four,
but the official national rule came eighteen sixty eight. The

(17:51):
Fourteenth Amendment says, all persons born or naturalized in the
United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof our citizens
of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.
Now you have a legal right, but it needs to
get tested by cases, so you need to learn this
history US versus one kim arc Us versus one kim

(18:14):
arc This is the seminole case from eighteen ninety eight
that has settled in this country and for one hundred
years plus made birthrights is and ship lobbed unquestioned lob
of the land. Who is Wan kim Mark. He was
the child of Chinese immigrants, born in San Francisco around
eighteen seventy give or minus.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
A couple of years.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
He leaves for China with his parents in eighteen eighty nine.
He gets married there, he has his first kid. He
comes back to the US in eighteen ninety He takes
a second visit to China in eighteen ninety four eighteen
ninety five to be again with his wife father another kid.
He comes back to San Francisco eighteen ninety five. And

(18:56):
as we said in the last episode, in eighteen eighty two,
the US US had set up a Chinese Exclusion Act
that said that all people, all people of Chinese origin
were not allowed in the United States. So Wang kim
Ark was arguing, I am a natural born citizen. The
San Francisco officials were like the hell you are. He
was forced to stay on a ship in San Francisco

(19:19):
Harbor for five months while the court decided his case.
January eighteen ninety six, the circuit judge said, yes, Wang
was born here. He is a US citizenship that needed
to get pushed up. So in eighteen ninety eight it
was decided by the Supreme Court. They vote six' to
three in the majority of opinion that Wangkim arc was

(19:42):
a birst. Citizen now here's something. Interesting five of the
six judges and the majority opinion OF us Versus wang
Kim arc would later be part of the or also
part of the seven to one majority opinion M plus. V,
ferguson which established legal. Aggregation so These Supreme court justices
who had this warped idea about what a citizen, was

(20:06):
and they're, like, oh, yeah, well segregation's. Equality even when
they thought, that they still thought that birthright citizenship was a,
right and since eighteen ninety eight that has been the
law of the. Land, now how can this get? Revoked
the argument that is being pushed is because this wording

(20:26):
all persons born or naturalized in The United states and
subject of to the jurisdiction. Thereof so there's going if
people want to really repeal, this they're going to put
the legal case that if you're born to someone who's
not a citizen of The United, states well then you're
not subject to the jurisdiction, thereof because you're subject to

(20:49):
the jurisdiction of somewhere else and you're not The United.
States so this is how if they are really going
to work to revoke birth, citizenship that's how they're going
to do. It but keep in, mind this has been, constitutional. Unquestioned,
first it was part of The constitution eighteen sixty. Eight
it's been legal law of the land, since you, know

(21:11):
decided by The Supreme court since eighteen ninety.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Eight so that is so then that's bird. Citizenship but
then So i'm, sorry and Maybe i'm misunderstanding, This but then,
if for, example you know that that were the case
that you, know let's SAY i was born here to
immigrant parents and it were decided THAT i am not
subject to the jurisdictions of The United, states means THAT

(21:36):
i can commit any crime in The United States states
can't do anything against me Because i'm not UNDER us.
JURISDICTION i belonged to The Dominican. Republic, well funny how that.
Works we didn't mean, that, right, right, right, Exactly well we.
Don't we didn't mean. That, okay all, RIGHT i, see
so you get the benefits of me being, Here so
polls for me for there you. Go thank, you, yeah

(21:59):
thank you for clarifying. That what a ridiculous. Notion i'm,
sorry because what would happen to someone like? Me And
panama does not recognize dual. CITIZENSHIP i was born before
my parents Became United states. Citizens they became citizens WHEN
i was, seven SO i was born my parents were Still.
Panamanian but SINCE i did not Claim panamanian citizenship before

(22:23):
the age of, EIGHTEEN i cannot become A panamanian. Citizen
so what becomes of me if they were boke birthright?
CITIZENSHIP i, mean it's the magic. Question you will just
have to depart you To mexico like the first who's
going to take?

Speaker 2 (22:36):
Me what's realistically going to happen is there's going to
be you, know if we do go down this, road
the children of undocumented, immigrants that's where it's going to.
Start of, course are do they get? Naturally you, know
are we with these children be natural born. Citizens that
could easily be a slippery slope where they, decide, well,
no not for so they.

Speaker 6 (22:57):
Became they can become stateless as well if they come
from a country Like, panama where if You i'm illegally
from a country that does not recognize, duels and you
are above the age in which you can, apply what
now becomes of.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
YOU i don't think people realize the absolute horror of
what people go through when they are considered, stateless right
when they literally don't have a, citizen like they don't
have a country to belong.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
TO i have no. Notion i'm Gonna i'm gonna go,
AHEAD i have no. NOTION i have no. Notion be, like,
Okay i'm completely. Ignorant so you know more information to
share right? Now well from last? Season oh, sorry go.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Ahead, No but even like Wat hurricans were technically stateless
for twenty. Years, yeah when THE us first controlled, them
they simply did not belong to any. Country they had no.
Citizenship they Weren't, spanish they were Not. American it was
only nineteen seventeen WHERE us Needed World War one canon
fodder that they were, like, okay we'll Let Puerto ricans

(23:56):
be citizens and fight and.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Die so, small small segue Into Puerto, rico not going
to stimil to spend a lot of time. There It's
Puerto rico is now considered under THE, us but not
a state at this. Point, However, spain, Yes spain doesn't
like to admit the fact, That, Yeah spain does not
like to admit the fact that this happened and that
they no longer they lost this. Territory so you can

(24:22):
actually get And i'm using this this phrase citizenship very
loosely because it's not really what it. Is but if
you meet certain criteria of having been born on the
province or having been born of a parent who is
born on a, province you can apply For Puerto rican. Citizenship,
now citizenship really is just residency the, island the, islands the,

(24:46):
islands so and in that so that would sound. Ridiculous you're,
like why the fuck WOULD i apply for? This this is?
Bullshit why Unless i'm getting a job In Puerto? Rico
this what is? This you? Know but Because spain does
not knowledge the fact that it Lost Puerto, rico if
you Have Puerto rican citizenship slash, residency you have a

(25:09):
path To spain citizenship faster than other. People that's the
only benefit because they don't want to admit what.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Happens that The United states. Stole, yeah, no.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
They don't acknowledge. It so if someone qualifies for, that
that's THAT i will. Say with these genealogy. Documents on
the separate, side, NOTE i can now that we also
have my mother's pre adoption birth. CERTIFICATE i can use
her pre adoption birth certificate to Get irish citizenship because
her grandmother was From, ireland and you, citizenship and then

(25:47):
once you get, citizenship you just register your kid and
they register their.

Speaker 6 (25:50):
Kid you adopt me IF i become, stateless.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Please one of the There i'm gonna just name a
three other outliers THAT i know about pretty. Well my
friend actually HAS uk dual. Citizenships she didn't even know
one UNTIL i told her to look into it because
her dad's From england and she's, like, Oh i'm actually

(26:15):
technically a ready a. Citizen so she just got A
uk passport and she's both, now so that's. Cool one
of the more the two le super lenient countries that
are Not Latin america, based that Not, LENIAN i mean
there are you'd still have to fill out paperwork and
meet the. Qualifications edward may know about this one. Too But,
israel if you Are, jewish you have a right to

(26:37):
citizenship through the law Of return that comes with a,
stipulation though you do still have to fill out all the. Paperwork,
yes and you can only apply for citizenship In. Israel In,
israel you can't go to the embassy In, washington D.
C you have to go To.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
Jerusalem you have to make.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
You actually have to return there to claim. It but
that being said that if you do get citizenship In,
israel if you are a male under the age of forty,
two you have to serve in the military and a
woman forty one forty two for, men forty one for.
Women and a lot of times when people claim, citizenship,

(27:15):
they As foulstone, knows they claim with. Minor whether intentionally or,
not they're claiming with. Minor if you claim with minor In,
israel your kid will get it they are the child
of A jewish, parent but they have to serve in
the military when they come of.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Age So, briar it's.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Funny we're talking About spanish citizenship And jewish And israeli.
Citizenship we have a segment About Sephardic.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Jewish, yes that's a great. Seb let's break right. Here
edward AND i had a separate conversation with a doctor,
Candidate Sarah, later and she spoke of her research for
PhD research of people who pursued citizenship Through spain And
portugal through Their sephardic. Answer let's hear a little bit
From sarah right.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Now thank you everyone again for. Joining we have a
very special correspondent. Today this Is Sarah. LATER i would
love to introduce. Her, sarah would you love to introduce
yourself to our.

Speaker 7 (28:11):
Audience, sure, well thank you so much for having. Me
my name Is Sarah, later AND i am a PhD
candidate at The university Of New mexico In cultural And linguistic.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
Anthropology thank you so. Much i'm really excited for this
conversation so our. Listeners for Our citizenship, episode we wanted
to have a specific segment about the details of The
sephardic ancestry Through spain And. Portugal we wanted to get
a few different perspectives on citizenship.

Speaker 8 (28:38):
For this big. Episode it's going to be our obviously you're.
Listening this is.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
A big one right.

Speaker 5 (28:42):
Now SO i was actually inquiring in A facebook. Group
we love to tell our listeners to go to The
facebook genealogy groups because they're so.

Speaker 8 (28:51):
Helpful everyone there is such a willing. Participant there was a.

Speaker 5 (28:55):
Group Of sephardic ancestry through descent and this is this
this inship. Process some MEMBERS i saw were going through
it or had in the, past AND i had asked
in the grip if anyone would be willing to talk
about their, experiences Since sarah was lovely and this to
be directly with details on her. Experiences SO i would
love to hand the mic over To sarah on her

(29:17):
writings and her experiences and the work context and the
details of the people that she encountered that pursued the.

Speaker 8 (29:26):
Citizenship So, SARAH i will hand this over to. You sure.

Speaker 7 (29:29):
WELL i am not an applicant, myself BUT i have
worked with and interacted with many people who are applying
for or who have applied For spanish And portuguese citizenship
via Their sephardic, ancestry and, specifically for a few YEARS
i worked at The Jewish federation Of New, mexico which

(29:49):
was at the time for about four years helping people
from all over the, world Including New, mexico sort of
prove that they have This sephardic ancestry that would qualify
them for this special path to citizenship In. Spain and
then subsequently we were working With portugal as, well so
it got to meet lots of people who were applying

(30:10):
for all sorts of. Reasons WHAT i found most interesting about,
this and this is what my dissertation work is, on
is that many of the PEOPLE i encountered who were
doing this had very little idea that they actually had
this ancestry before looking into their genealogies and people often
TOOK dna tests and when they did the, research they

(30:32):
found that they descended From spanish And Portuguese, jews people
who were persecuted and prosecuted and burned at the stake
during The Spanish, inquisition and discovering this ancestry is what
qualified them to apply for citizenship through these special roots to.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Citizenship before we move, on by the, Way edward here
the co host, Again, sarah thank you for joining. Us
just to, clarify Because internet information is very. Contradictory Both
spain And, portugal they've stopped accepting. Applications is that?

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Oh, okay got, it And i'm just asking a quick
factoid to throw. In, apparently over one hundred twenty thousand
applicants supplied to Both spain And. Portugal most of them
came From Latin, America jews living In mexico topping the,
list followed By jews In venezuela And. Colombia AND i know,
MYSELF i had some Distant colombian relatives reach out and be, like,

(31:29):
hey are are We? Sephardic and you, know there's it's
very hard to answer that, question like tangible proof is,
hard but, yeah JUST i guess if you could go
a little bit into what particular proof were you finding
which helped people link themselves back To.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Spain.

Speaker 7 (31:43):
Sure, so, unfortunately What spain was looking for has changed
over the years in terms of what they would accept
as sufficient. Proof but mostly what it was was a
genealogical report done by a professional genealogist who would go
into you, know church archives and inquisition records and there's

(32:06):
all sorts of historical documents to connect the applicant generation
by generation to somebody who was a Known Sephardic jew
and Known Sephardic jew meant, essentially you, know there were
records that they were tried in an inquisition, trial or you,
know there were records of them Practicing, judaism or for whatever.

(32:26):
Reason you, know there are records of this ancestor Practicing,
judaism and so if that genealogical report could connect you
to that, ancestor then that is what qualified.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
You and, YEAH i mean again not to stress, again
like you, know only a certain percentage of people leave historical, records, right,
yes you either are a person of privilege or. Else you,
know of the few percentage that were, PERSECUTED i can
only imagine the total number Of Sephardic jews far. Larger you,
know getting all their names practically. Impossible so, yeah that's

(32:59):
that's kind of a hard while to scale, up.

Speaker 7 (33:01):
Definitely and another really interesting component all of this is
that you have to remember that for five hundred, years
because of The, inquisition a lot of these people were
hiding the fact or trying to hide the fact that
they descended From jews or oftentimes continued to Practice judaism in.
Secret so the records, there you, know imagine if your

(33:22):
family has this secret that they want absolutely nobody to know,
about and you know they're potentially destroying all public evidence of,
that and then five hundred years later you have to
prove to The spanish government that this family was in Fact,
jewish and so finding those records that your family worked
so hard to conceal is a huge.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Challenge, totally and again thanks for letting me ask some
questions back to. Back it was interesting you'd studied these
families and even though there was this pressure to hide
their family background for, centuries there were still these traditions
and customs that got passed. Down do you mind going
into some common traits which what you've.

Speaker 7 (34:00):
Found, sure so every family is. Different certain families maintained
a lot of practices that they identify As. Jewish other
families did not maintain the, practices but you, know still
have this. Ancestry some of the ones that you know
are pretty common, are for, example lighting candles On friday,
nights and people would often think of this as A catholic,

(34:22):
practice or A catholic In New mexico, practice you, know
if they're A New. Mexican but this is very consistent
with The jewish practice of lighting candles On friday night
to start The Sabbath, shabbat and.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
So that is a big.

Speaker 7 (34:38):
One another big one is practices surrounding death and. Mourning
so a big practice would be covering the mirrors in
your home when a relative, Dies that's A jewish. Practice
when you visit a, cemetery leaving a little stone on
your relatives gravestones to show that you have, visited that's
Another jewish. Practice so a lot of these people would

(34:59):
often do, these and they would have these family. Traditions
they wouldn't necessarily have explanations for, them but they would do.
Them and then you, know in recent years have learned
that these are Likely jewish practices that their families have carried.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
On that's.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
FASCINATING i also, saw specifically in the law That spain
passed in twenty. Fifteen Both spain And portugal passing their
bills in twenty, Fifteen spain mentioned use of the language Of,
ladino which is kind of A judaic dialect Of. Spanish you,
know you're bringing in Some hebrew and, whatnot as being
potential proof for for the citizenship In New mexico where

(35:37):
people Speaking.

Speaker 7 (35:38):
Ladino So New mexico's a little bit more. Complicated it
depends which linguist you. Ask but some might think that
some do believe That New, mexicans especially in Northern New,
mexico speak a variety Of spanish that's consistent with essentially Medieval.
Spanish and a lot of that has to do with

(36:00):
the fact that the community was so isolated for so many,
centuries and so they maintained this variety Of spanish that
was distinct, from for, Example Mexican. Spanish but it is.
Different ladina Or Judeo spanish is what linguists would likely call.
It but it's a Different Judaeo spanish than you might
find in Like turkey Or, morocco where they have other.

(36:24):
Influences so the short answer is that depends which linguists you,
Ask but Northern New mexicans who have this ancestry do
speak a unique variety Of.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Spanish that's that's. Fascinating, well AND i.

Speaker 7 (36:38):
Also wanted TO i just remembered one other tradition that
you know is another common, one which is food, practices
so you, know especially preparing. Meat so you, know a
lot of people with this ancestry will prepare. Meat you,
know either they'll just avoid pork and that's consistent with you,
know The jewish dietary, laws and or they might you,

(37:02):
know salt the meat when you, know after it's, killed
you salt it to drain all the. Blood that is
another practice that's consistent with you, Know jewish dietary food,
laws and then also eating special foods at certain times
of year that kind of mirror The jewish holiday.

Speaker 5 (37:20):
Calendar it's so fascinating to have that overlap and have
that being one of the clues to where they came.

Speaker 8 (37:26):
From you, know that's that's.

Speaker 5 (37:28):
Incredible IF i could ask one thing time frame wise for,
LISTENERS i, mean this is more historical now that the
obligations are closed For spain And, portugal but on average
the applicants that you, saw how long did it take
between hiring the, genealogists getting these, records submitting them to
pain and awaiting a decision and the costs if you

(37:50):
happen to, know.

Speaker 7 (37:52):
It was a very lengthy and expensive process unfortunately for most,
people and a lot of people still today are waiting a.
Decision so if they, applied you, know it is now
to end of almost end of twenty twenty, four it
has been you know for some people almost a decade
of waiting for, this you, know and there have been

(38:14):
acceptances there have been. Rejections some of those who have
been rejected are appealing that. Decision but, anyway COST i would,
estimate depending, on you, know what people chose to, DO
i would estimate minimum of five thousand dollars a person
because you had to travel To spain to sign your

(38:40):
documents in front of a notary and you, know there
was all sorts of costs, involved but it was you,
know hiring an attorney if you chose to do, that
and then, yeah a number of, years many, years.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
Yeah because some some citizenships are really.

Speaker 5 (38:57):
Fast it's just a matter of getting the documents from
start and like A kadia's or certain town halls or
whatever it may, be having to if you're in THE,
us you have to make maybe file articles seventy and
try to get all these documents that.

Speaker 8 (39:10):
Are locked and going in front of a.

Speaker 5 (39:12):
Court so LIKE i just want to give our, listeners
like this isn't always a you, know you, know a
really quick. Process in some cases it's. Longer sometimes you
need legal action with a lawyer and. Traveling and it's
interesting because you have to travel.

Speaker 8 (39:28):
To spain for.

Speaker 5 (39:29):
That so these citizenships specifically could not be done at
A spain Or portugal embassy in The United, states it
had to be over.

Speaker 7 (39:35):
There, Right, well part of it you did need to
go to a local consulate to sign, documents but you
also needed to actually travel over. There For, SPAIN i
don't think that that was necessarily a requirement For.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
Portugal, okay, yeah because the Reason i'm asking is you're
for Some Latin american, countries you're able to actually do
all of it in The United.

Speaker 8 (39:53):
States so just for some, CONTEXT i, mean but ALSO i,
MEAN i, know and this is outside Of Latin, america
BUT i.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
Know For, israel if you were to do the law
return and Get israeli, citizenship you would actually you wouldn't
be able to go to the consulate In, WASHINGTON. Dc
you have to go To jerusalem for. That so every
country is different and lengthy. Travel SO i just wanted
to give our listeners some context for, that telling what
true they want to go.

Speaker 8 (40:19):
Down but this is really, Fascinating. Edward do you have further?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Questions i'm, Sure, well just it's, interesting, like it's interesting
you brought up The israeli law law return versus What
spain And portugal were. Doing you, know the law says
that they were just you, know correcting a quote his historical.
Mistake and unlike Apparently spain had done previous attempts to

(40:43):
extend some sort of, citizenship but it was mostly To
jews In, Greece Ottomann, Empire, Balkans. Egypt this was open
to All Sephardic, jews which again opened up To Latin.
America but it's fascinating you're talking about how, expensive how,
lengthy like even though this was a quote generous, offer

(41:04):
the amount of, PROOF i mean, again linking your family
back five, centuries that's so hard and, yeah it just
it strikes me about how on the surface level this
seems like a generous you, know correcting historical, wrongs but
in actual practice it was so. Restrictive and it's funny

(41:24):
too that once again you Have iberian bureaucrats finally determining
who who is or Isn't jewish and who has the
right to say In iberia or, not you, know echoing
the inquisition from centuries. Before i'm, curious because you brought
Up spain And, portugal did the New mexican families have
a preference on which country they would try to apply?

Speaker 7 (41:47):
For so in, general and again you, know every. Individual
every family is, different but in, general the preference Among
New mexicans Was spain because there is this large population
Of New mexican families who have been In New mexico for,
many many, generations who you, know their families have and
continue to identify As spanish because they descend and they

(42:11):
are aware of their descent from the, conquistadors who you,
know came Into New mexico as part Of, spain The Spanish,
empire and you, know these families descend from. Them you,
know they often hold land grant, titles meaning they hold
rights to these communally owned areas of land that were

(42:31):
granted by The crown Of. Spain so they do have
this you, know ongoing connection To, spain and so claiming
That spanish citizenship for, them you, know often is consistent
with how their families have. Identified and again this is not.
Everybody even the people who some of the people who

(42:53):
come from these families that have identified As spanish for
generations don't necessarily identify As spanish. Themselves often they recognize
that they descend, from you, know not Just, spaniards but
also indigenous people And mexican, families and you, know they
very much recognize that their genealogies are full, of you,

(43:13):
know very diverse, populations but they definitely do have that
special connection To.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Spain got.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
It i'm wondering if you could talk about some of
the New mexicans you, found who you, know maybe weren't
aware of their family, traditions but once they learned about
this genealogical, connection they themselves started to adopt This sephardic.
Identity like what what sort of things did you notice
them doing as they were undergoing that journey and their.

Speaker 7 (43:40):
iData, yeah and this was something that was super. Cool
and you, know, again something THAT i you, know has
drawn me to this topic is that it's not for many,
people it's not just a question of, ancestry it's a
question of. Identity and so if you learn that these
ancestors that you always thought Were catholic were Actually, jewish
then first some people this has meant that they themselves

(44:02):
now identify As. Jewish some people have gone through formal
conversion processes To, judaism or they don't call it, conversion
they call it a right of return because they are
returning to this religion of their, ancestors not, converting so
they will you, know formally do, that you, know formally Become,
jewish you, know and this this whole spectrum of identification With.

(44:26):
Judaism some people will, say, oh that's, COOL i have
an ancestor who Is, jewish you, know and then move
on with their. Lives other, people you, know do this
full conversion or return and then everything in. Between so
some people will continue to you, know go To Catholic
mass weekly and then also you, know Celebrate. Shabbat so
lots of, variation but it is definitely affecting people's everyday,

(44:51):
identities which is really.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
Cool so it's.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Really beautiful the ones who try to attempt to blend
both traditions because that's probably what their ancestors are realistically.
Doing and in the fifteen and sixteen, Hundreds, wow So
spain And portugal they offered this quote generous time. Window
it seems like this program is just a one time
only opportunity and they're shutting it off presumably from here on.

(45:14):
Out what's what's your opinion about?

Speaker 4 (45:16):
That?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Is is, like should it just be this window of
opportunity or should it should this have been a long.

Speaker 5 (45:21):
Term Project and IF i may add to, that you
happen to know why they shut it. Off i'm just,
LIKE i know that it, ended BUT i wasn't sure
the exact.

Speaker 8 (45:31):
Reason.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
Why was there always a timeframe or they just get
too many? Applications they were, like, ah.

Speaker 7 (45:35):
Done So spain always had a specific. Window it was
initially JUST i think even two. Years then they extended
it for a third. Year then the pandemic, happened and
so they, let you, know some people who had started
applications continue their. Applications so there was always going to,
be you, know just this limited window For. SPAIN i
don't know If portugal had a limited. WINDOW i don't

(45:57):
think they, did but they, did of course cut it.
Off now you, KNOW i am not in These spanish
Or portuguese, governments SO i don't know if my opinion
matters in the, least BUT i IF i were a
decision maker, HERE i would say that it should be
something that's open for a longer period of time because
it matters so much to so many of these people

(46:20):
who've chosen to apply THAT i think, that you, know
it doesn't quite make sense in my, opinion to limit
this window of. Opportunity you, know they're still going to
be descended From Sephardic jews in ten years from. Now
so you, KNOW i think it would be great to
have that opportunity still available for them if they wanted,
it which often they.

Speaker 8 (46:41):
Do thank you so, MUCH, z thank. YOU i just
had a two more follow, ups actually.

Speaker 5 (46:48):
One i'm not totally familiar with these, details so please forgive.

Speaker 8 (46:52):
Me but is there was there any concern.

Speaker 5 (46:55):
On citizens like feeling like they or was there any
sort of obligation where they needed to renown like A us?

Speaker 8 (47:00):
Citizenship okay for this, No so that was.

Speaker 7 (47:04):
Part of what was unique about this iteration of the.
Law So Sephardic jews had, special you, know a special
pathway to, citizenship at least In spain for a. While you,
know they had reduced residency, requirements you, know special accommodations
for becoming citizens because of Their sephardic. Ancestry this has
been going on for a, while but in twenty, fifteen

(47:26):
that law is the one that's talked about and everyone's
so excited about that because it got rid of the residency,
requirement so you can get the citizenship without actually living,
there and it also let you claim citizenship without renouncing
your other, citizenships so you can be a dual you,
know triple whatever it is With spain through this.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
Law.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
Wonderful and my last, question just Because i'm curious and
with the population In New mexico and you were mentioning
applicants also had indigenous roots with The mexican, heritage have
you seen like an, interest like a parent little interest
in researching their tribe affiliation if they were able to
track that.

Speaker 7 (48:05):
Down, definitely, yes you, know that's not SOMETHING i can
speak to as much because that's not my you, know
specific area of, research but, definitely, uh you, know an
INCREASING i would say a number Of New mexicans are
interested in learning more, about you, know various components of their,
ancestry including Indigenous so, yes that's definitely a Trend i'd.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
SAY i guess a follow Up christian with.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Me you mentioned you worked with The Jewish federation Of New.
Mexico how had Maybe Ashkenazi jews who lived in the
state or just you, know how how Did jews who
were already in the area take to these people who
were claiming Their jewish.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
Identity, so for the most, Part i'd say The New
Mexican jewish community was relatively welcoming to these people reclaiming
This jewish, identity but that has definitely not been the.
Case you, know across the, board a lot of the
People i've spoken with have been, hesitant for, example to
go to synagogue because they're not sure how they'll be,

(49:04):
received or a common THING i heard was WHEN i
do go to, Synagogue i'll sit by the exit in
case it's just too uncomfortable and people are staring at me.

Speaker 8 (49:12):
AND i need to.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Leave so you, know it's mixed.

Speaker 7 (49:16):
Again New mexico tended to be more, welcoming but oftentimes
people who are embracing this ancestry are not fully accepted
By jewish.

Speaker 8 (49:26):
Communities.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
INTERESTING i wanted to just add as a side note
that for our, listeners the CITIZENSHIP i descent as a growing.

Speaker 8 (49:33):
TREND i can't say for countries around.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
The, world but in The United states and, specifically there
was a STATISTIC i read back In june twenty twenty
four where the research The google search tactics for CITIZENSHIP
i dissent the requirements for each country that people were
able to like locate and gone up.

Speaker 8 (49:53):
Significantly so you could tie it to a local, reason
you could tie it for any other.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
Reason BUT i in my in, MIND i would like
to think that people are reclaiming their roots in certain,
ways so they would like to be able to tie
back to their ancestors and be able to possibly bike
a bridge to a life over there to where were
their families. Oriententated so, yeah so but, Yeah i'll hand

(50:18):
this over ted where that's.

Speaker 8 (50:19):
That was my last?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Comments oh, no Just sarah, again thank? You anything else
which you didn't bring, up which which you which you
want to share about this interesting area Of latino?

Speaker 7 (50:32):
Identity nothing that comes to, mind but you, know please
read my.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Dissertation just?

Speaker 4 (50:38):
Kidding is?

Speaker 2 (50:40):
That is that going to be eventually published in in
a book or you're not sure about?

Speaker 4 (50:45):
That that's the ultimate.

Speaker 7 (50:46):
Goal but the dissertation itself should be available accessible. ONLINE
i think most dissertations are if you look for. Them but,
yeah hopefully one day it will be turned into a.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Book, Awesome it's. Wonderful all.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Right thank, You and if you have anything for our,
listeners like anything else to check out maybe on this,
topic if or or, else happy to hear.

Speaker 8 (51:08):
It, otherwise thank you so much for your, Time.

Speaker 7 (51:11):
Thank you so much for having.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
ME i be you, okay and you know now that we're, Here,
EDWARD i think we we we have another interview we
need to talk.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
About we do, indeed so we want to know some
more about citizenship. Records so we brought back our friend
from the last, Episode Debbie, girtler From Family, search to
talk about what citizenship records there. Are now to join,
us our, Friend Debbie, girtler the assistant director Of Family,
search library head researcher For Latin. America, debbie thank you

(51:41):
again for joining Rediscovering Latini.

Speaker 9 (51:44):
DoD thank, You. Edward i'm happy to be. Here that's.

Speaker 7 (51:46):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Nice so we've been talking about citizenship, history especially in
The United states and other. Countries what Can Family search
offer us FOR us citizenship?

Speaker 9 (51:57):
Records so we do Have Naturalization search for good parts
of The United. States so if you know the place
and it's generally the first place that your immigrants stayed
at or lived at and where they started that citizenship,
process you can go in and you can look and
see if they've started the, papers you, know if they
did their declaration and intent and they finished the. Process

(52:19):
there so lots of good citizenship. Records the thing to
keep in mind is different time periods they were done
in different, courts and so they may have been in
a local court or county. Court as it got more
from the current, day it would have been like a federal,
court perhaps a federal district. Court our Family search wiki

(52:40):
has some great articles for those that haven't used it
that will tell you about these types of rules and
where the records might. Be and SO i would highly
recommend to your readers or your listener excuse, me that
they check out the Family Search wiki for the particular
area that they're interested in and find out what's. Available
not only will that point you to what we have
on Family, search the little points us of what's available,

(53:01):
anywhere because a family search we're all about enabling people
to find their, ancestors and if it's not on, us
we want you to find it wherever it might.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Be got It and that's a really great tip about the.
Wiki how can we find?

Speaker 9 (53:13):
That so if you go to our website FamilySearch dot
org and you click on, search a dropdown menu will
appear and research wiki is one of those, options and
then take it to the wiki and then you just
put in the name of the. Place generally in THE
us it's a county or a state In Latin. America
it could be the, country it could be a, province a,

(53:34):
department that sort of. Thing but there's all kinds of good.
Information and it's also available In. Spanish probably not as
complete In spanish. Yet they're working on, it BUT i
would check if you're able and you Read, spanish to
check Both english and The spanish because sometimes they have
different things on.

Speaker 8 (53:54):
Them.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Interesting interesting also a basic point because my dad had
kept his mother's naturalization certificate AND i just assumed that
that was what a naturalization record. Is but there's extra
steps as. Well can you get into that a little.

Speaker 9 (54:09):
Bit, yeah they, well when they first came tom they
have And i'm a little rusty on the. Years, again
the wiki will help you with. That when they first
come in a certain amount of time where they have
to go in and declare their intention to stay in THE.
Us once they do, that they are there for a little,
while and then they actually go in through the petition

(54:30):
for naturalization and then they actually get the certificate as.
Well so there are several different types of documents that
you might. Find generally, speaking the declaration of intent has
a little bit more information about where they're, from and
the more recent ones are really more. Precise the earlier
ones maybe not as.

Speaker 8 (54:50):
Much.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Yeah plus plus they're also giving, details usually about how
how they came into The, states if they came on a,
ship the name of the, ship like really, important and
from like, that any other H one.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
Other thing THAT i would be is the oath of.
Allegiance they have, to you, know denounce their allegiance to
their former. Country so it's kind of fun to read
that they're denouncing their allegiance to The king Of spain
or whoever wherever.

Speaker 7 (55:16):
They might have.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
Come absolutely on My jewish mother's, side it was fun
to see when they were renouncing their their allegiance to
The czar Of, russia And i'm, like, yeah ditch that. Guy.
Yeah any other questions For debbie?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Here, No, no it's been.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Fascinating if people want to reach out to, you how
can they reach?

Speaker 9 (55:36):
You, Yeah So i'm on family search dot. Org my
email address IS. D. S gertler my last. Name i'm
assuming it'll be in the show, Notes, yes at FamilySearch dot.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Org FamilySearch dot, org that magical. Website all, Right, debbie
thank you so much for, This thank you for appearing
a second, time and we hope to have.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
You back all?

Speaker 9 (55:56):
Right Thanks, Edward it's been.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
Fun thank, you take care.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Fantastic so that being, said.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
So much for that.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Great, yeah that being. Said the last citizenship that's Not
Latin america, based BUT i know some knowledge of. THAT
i could talk. About my, Husband, matt actually qualifies For italian,
citizenship AND i will tell you. How it's pretty. Cool
so our last name is not inherently Like, latino like you,

(56:29):
KNOW i Think i've mentioned, this like there's, no it's
not one of those last. Names it's Like, Rodriguez, Gercia,
lopez you, know like something that you're like right, Away you're, like, Yep.
Latino our last name Sounds, italian and but it's from
my Husband's Puerto rican side of the. Family AND i
did more family research AND i heard stories OF i

(56:49):
heard like a random thing Of italian here and. There
but THEN i found. IT i found the, boat their
boat record that brought their ancestors From italy to Port.
Rico so how does that all work? Out? Matt my
husband has a ancestor that came From Italy, savona which

(57:10):
was Not italy until eighteen sixty, one but it was
the territory To Puerto rico and they stayed in Like
San harman for like, ever but he never formed well
because there was no nation to renounce From. Italy he
made his roots, there so his kids Were spanish. Citizens
they were born In Puerto, rico they stayed. There they

(57:32):
automatically BECAME us citizens because they stayed. There, YadA. YadA
so we went from random Stateless italy To Puerto rico
and then THE. Us that being, said there was never
a formal renouncing of any citizenship Because leland Of italy didn't. Exist,
now if you have an, Ancestor italy is really. There

(57:54):
recently was a law In italy that got really complicated
for a lot of people pursuing, citizenship but That i'll
talk about in a. Second but, technically if you are
Pursuing Italy italian citizenship by, descent all you, need if
it goes this far, back which it does FOR, us
an ancestor who was born in that, area that was

(58:15):
alive anywhere in the, world they become in eighteen sixty,
one if they were still alive in eighteen sixty one
When italy was finally became a, nation as long as
they didn't formally, renounce which you can't formally renounce the
country that doesn't. Exist you qualify For ITALIAN. Cityshm homeboy
didn't die until eighteen eighty, One so we have as

(58:36):
soon AS i find all these, documents like you, KNOW i,
MEAN i see the. Documents i've seen them on Family,
search BUT i can't print out Family. Search you actually
have to go To Puerto rico and these areas to
get these. Documents that being, said if we were to
ever pursue That matt And nora could get. IT i
could get it through marriage pretty. Easily if they got,
CITIZENSHIP i could then, say, Hey i'm married to An italian.

(58:57):
Citizen give Me BUT i act we would have to
take a language test some countries with your, citizenship you
have to take language. Tests, Okay so that's going to
make me. Segue i'll leave the history To, edward BUT
i just want to walk through the different types of
citizenships for our. Listeners, so as we were speaking of,
briefly by birth is just. Solete by family is u.

(59:19):
Sengwine so by birth would be if you were born
on the, soil and that would be my father In El.
Salvador he was born On salvadorian. Style that is how
he is A salvadorian. CITIZEN i am A salvadorian citizen
by family uses and by, derivation would actually be technically
that is technically What fausto is is his parent became

(59:40):
A us. Citizen now he is A us citizen through
THEIR u s. Citizenship, yes when they became A us,
citizen he became one with. Him that is how he
is A us. Citizen naturalization is a formal like, relocation
starting to work down their generate, income living there, legally
and you become naturalized to that country by, marriage you

(01:00:02):
marry a, citizen you probably live there for a couple of.
Years you can be a citizen by. Marriage now there's
another one that's been making the. Waves citizenship by. Investment oh, yes,
Yes Latin america is getting pretty big with that. One
you can buy yourself, citizenship.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
And Some european countries.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Too and Some european countries. Too some of them are
as high as two hundred thousand, dollars but some are
like thirty, thousand which is still a, lot but not as.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
Crazy what are some countries that allow?

Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
That, yes, PROPERTY i.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Mean, NO i, MEAN i Mean i'm going to list
all of The i'm literally about to walk through all
of The Latin american.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Countries, okay go through all of, them all.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Right all, Right so but BEFORE i go into all
of the, countries there are you can get dual, citizenship
multi citizenship where it. Applies there are things called non citizenship,
nationals which is just legal, residents so you could be
a national in another. Country other ways to acquire citizenship
is by adoption by a citizen and becoming a surrogate

(01:01:05):
child of a, citizen so not a formal adoption but
basically like a dependent which is what my grandfather was
to another, family and entering into public, office which to
me doesn't make, sense but, whatever it does actually qualify.

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
You.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Argentina you can get citizenship if you Have argentinian. Ancestry
you can get it from birth on a land to
send from a, parent, naturalization, investment, marriage after. Residency that's
the loophole is you can get your citizenship by, marriage
but there usually is like a co signing, Residency like

(01:01:42):
you can't just marry them and then apply for. Sizenship
you've got to be living there for like two years,
Usually And argentina does allow for dual.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Citizenship same thing, here, right, yeah for your citizenship to. Marriage.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Yeah bolivia only birth and, naturalization so if you were
not born on the soil and you did not formally
come back as a, resident that's. It but you can
get dual, citizenship but there is no like, discent so
like you were born in THE us to help you're
moving back because you're not. Gonna brazil has birth descent

(01:02:18):
naturalization and does recognize dual. Citizenship chile actually has birth
the descent, naturalization and they had this thing called open to,
citizenship which means that if you're over the age of.
Eighteen sounds like A.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
Facebook step, right, hello thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Grind so, yeah you can literally just apply after the
age of, Eighteen, chile you can just.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Apply, okay, well, listen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
You you got to reverse your. Seasons don't remember that
you have to reverse your seasons down.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
There OH i am okay with. That that's a nice, weather, YEAH.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
I mean right, now it's probably warm as hell in.

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
Summertime.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Yes For, colombia they have birth naturalization and. Adoption so
you can obtain citizenship if you are A Latin american
Or caribbean citizen by birth and have resided In colombia
for at least one, year so they do have preference
for Their.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Latin at least WHEN i was growing, up they did
allow kids Of colombians up to eighteen to officially apply
for Citizens but kind of kind of like What melyssa
is describing With, panama BUT i didn't choose late were.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Stuck Costa rica has. Not So Costa rica has birth descent,
investment but Cost rica is very expensive to. Buy Costa
rica is very expensive to do investment, citizenship but it
also is really booming with crypto down, there and they're

(01:03:53):
really advanced with their like you can use crypto at
the farmer's market down. There it's. Whatever but if you
were to pursue naturalization In Costa, rica like they have
a law like some of these, countries you only have
to be residing for two to five, Years Costa rica
is like seven to, Ten like they make you work
for that. Naturalization, Cuba, no you're not getting out Of cuba,

(01:04:17):
technically yes you, TECHNICALLY i mean you can be A
cuban citizen if you want to, relinquish because we are
not in good terms With. Cuba it is also very
hard to get onto the island to qualify for. Naturalization,
yeah of, Course so it says dual if there's a

(01:04:37):
good relationship With. Cuba but there's the downside To cuba
is that who has a good relationship With cuba if
they rely on help from The United. States not a.
Lot so if You're, cuban you're a little bit sol
sorry Dr birth, dissent naturalization, investment and can do a
dual Citizenship.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Ecuador wait, wait, wait unless you're Of hay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Heritage oh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
Yikes in twenty, thirteen AND i don't believe that this
law has been overturned in twenty, thirteen it was birthright
citizenship Was jusli's was overturned and applied retroactively only to

(01:05:21):
those born between nineteen twenty nine and twenty. Ten so right,
now they're literally hundreds of thousands Of dominicans Of haitian,
ancestry or as we would call, Them dominicans who are.
Stateless so they The Dominican, republic they can't Get dominican,
citizenship And haitish is, like we don't know who you, are,

(01:05:45):
Right so it's not like they could Become haitian. Citizens so,
yeah so, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
There you go with the stateless Goddamn.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
Yeah there you go with The. States that's WHY i
feel bad Because i'm, LIKE i have no experience AND
i have no knowledge of, that but like it's always, yeah,
sorry that's, okay throw a little wrench into.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
That. One ecuador has birth, descent, naturalization marriage, investment and
duel like pretty much across the. Board El salvador birth, descend,
naturalization marriage with, residency, investment and not only can you
be a dual, citizen but if you are Of hispano,
origin you can. Also like if you are a you

(01:06:32):
want to come to sal but if you Are, venezuelan
you and you're From hispanic, origin you can Becoming you're
welcome in. There they make it a little easier if
you're From latown to become a.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Citizen i'm, Sorry, brian did you say for The Dominican
republic by marriage as? Well? No, no, no, no, Okay i'm.

Speaker 6 (01:06:53):
Sorry saw a video of a sorry to, INTERRUPT i
saw a video of A dominican man looking for his, Wife,
like oh, yeah she she got taken away even though
he was A dominican citizen and his wife Was haitian
and they just sent her back.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
Over, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Yep guatemala is birth descent and. Naturalization there is no,
duel there is no, marriage but you can Have you
can only be a dual citizen In guatemala from specific
Other Central american, countries so NOT, us but like some
of the Other latin, countries or if you were, stateless

(01:07:30):
you can actually Get guatemalan citizenship if you're.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Stateless this is the most depressing.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
Missing, sorry BUT i do want to be informists universe roster.
Right you also you can also get citizenship if you
have accomplishments in, science art or. Philanthropy And honduras has
birth descent marriage naturalization investment and they do dual. Citizenship

(01:07:55):
mexico birth, descent naturalization investment and duel no birth des send.
Naturalization exceptional, service, no.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
M what's exceptional service to?

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
You were really can you?

Speaker 7 (01:08:14):
Do for?

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Right save rink if you EXCEPTION i forgot the actual.
Qualifications but if you're just like exceptional and you want,
cistenship you can.

Speaker 4 (01:08:24):
Get it like old star right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Basically if your bill gates do you can you want?
It you can have? IT i, mean but no dual
citizenship on less a Few latin countries and you can
get by. Investment panama birth, investment, Naturalization no duel unless
your kids were born, abroad but that's only until, eighteen
and then they have to choose what's where they want to.

(01:08:49):
Be by the, way, naturalization investment, Descent no, duel birth,
descent naturalization, investment yes Duel, spain which is like a complicated, one.

Speaker 6 (01:09:02):
And of COURSE i don't want us back there, atmosphere.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
Some people do have go.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Ahead you can Get spanish citizenship through birth, descent marriage.
NATURALIZATION i would personally look Into spain because you were
a citizen of a lattime, country just just if you were.
Curious any, Listeners.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
No we we we broke. Off we thought it were.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Independence, NO i, know but at the same time they're definitely.
Not but Actually edward AND i had a talk With
sarah just to you, know we had that earlier in this,
episode and there was a citizenship by descent Through sephardic.
Judaism so, basically if you had records And edward could

(01:09:52):
talk more.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
About, that but all you have to do is have
your ancestors persecuted and threatened with yes and expelled from
a cun and citizenship can be.

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
Here, actually this reminds me of this is very.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
RANDOM i had a friend who was A holocaust, survivor a.
Painter she was technically born in what's Now, croatia but
it was Then. Yugoslavia her parents were From, austria so
she learned long After World War. Two you, know her
parents were killed During World war, two et, cetera et,

(01:10:24):
cetera that she could Get austrian citizenship because her parents Were.
Austrian she's, like, this this country killed my, Parents why
DO i want the Citizen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
No, no you don't have to get any. Citizenship you
don't want. To but at the same, time you have
a right to. It you have a you have a
right to. It AND i do feel like our listeners
at least should just know where they can. Stand and
BASICALLY i want to. Info dump the information and you
do what you want with.

Speaker 6 (01:10:50):
It germany has a similar law for Like, germany where
are there Are like some of the soccer players for
the national, team for, example were born In, poland but
their grandparents were born in what was Then, germany and
so they were eligible to play for The german national
team because technically you're Like germans who came back. Home

(01:11:12):
so there's loads Of german Descendants polish Ethnically.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
German this Was nazi.

Speaker 6 (01:11:21):
Ethnically germans When germany expanded beyond the borders of what
it current day. Is and today if you could, say,
oh my grandparents were born In silesia when it was
still Under german, JURISDICTION i can now apply for A german.
Citizenship so it's the same thing Like. Austria if you
can prove that where they were at the time belonged
to that, country you can now get citizenships of black.

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
Country So spain is also a little funny because technically
they say they allowed dual, citizenship but it's kind of
kind of. Testy there are certain areas where foreign nationals
can Acquire spanish, citizenship but they usually you have to
renounce their previous. Nationality there are, exceptions Including Andorra Equatorial.

Speaker 6 (01:12:07):
Guinea technically, yeah and then Technically spanish citizens, anyway because
That's spanish territory, abroad same thing As endor And. Doora
it's not like its own it's a nation but not
its own. Country, no Technically guinea was A spanish territory abroad, currently,
yes but if you go back To, spain it's like

(01:12:29):
you are now back home and you are A spanish.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
Citizen, yeah it's like They're. Spanish is so.

Speaker 6 (01:12:34):
Beautiful it, Is but, yeah it's the same kind of.
Law it's like if you were born In endor and
you come back To, spain it's, like, oh you Like
Puerto ricans that come to The, states you. Are you
can now you, know fully embrace your. Citizenship You're it's
the same.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
Concept, well one other peculiarity about People.

Speaker 6 (01:12:52):
Guam for, instance they come to the mainland and now
you can like How guam is part of THE. Us
if you come to, mainland you. Are it's it's the
same concept of Equatorial. Guinea In, spain it's the same.
Relationship you are just a foreign territory of the nation Or.
Martinique In, france like you know how there's foreign frenchscus
because the're The french department. Exactly so same, concept that's

(01:13:13):
WHAT i.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
Mean but the thing With spain as well is that
for any descendants of people who had to flee or
were exiled during The Spanish Civil, war so something like
between nineteen thirty nine and nineteen seventy, FIVE i, think,
right descendants of those people can Claim spanish. Citizenship so

(01:13:34):
there's an entire portion of my, family not, me who
has descended from a essentially a, refugee, right A spanish
refugee who went to The Dominican republic and married my grandmother's,
sister and so their kids can. Claim but, NO i
don't think they, have THOUGH i want. To it's a powerful.

Speaker 6 (01:13:54):
Passport, yeah that's a good one to have if you
can get.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
It i'm going to list two more One american countries
and provide an update THAT i have to correct myself. On,
okay you know, why no. Investment they literally say you
can't buy citizenship money. Here don't bring your money. There,
yeah they do have dual citizenship birth descent and Naturalization
venezuela birth. Naturalization no. Dual, no actually they do have,

(01:14:18):
dual but no one wants to go. There, Sorry Dominican.
Republic i'm. Sorry then right now they don't want to
because THE us mess them. Up no one wants to
go there right. Now i'm. Sorry i'm just gonna say.
It i'm not saying anything about HOW i feel about.

Speaker 4 (01:14:31):
It as.

Speaker 6 (01:14:31):
Villance you can keep your citizenship if you become a
citizen of somewhere else is more.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
IMPORTANT i stand corrected, fast, though foreign spouses Of dominican
citizens can apply For dominican citizenship their. Marriage they have
to be married to A dominican citizen for two, years
have temporary residency in dr for six, months and provide
an authenticated translated copy of the marriage, difficate just.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
Saying unless you're a, home unless you're really there's no
gay marriage of The Dominican.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Republic you can't be like grandfather, did like it happened.
Overseas it wasn't like it happened in The Dominican.

Speaker 4 (01:15:07):
Republic you, know it would have to be some sort
of legal case THAT i would have to take up.
There and then, yeah what are the? Chances? Yeah, okay so,
yes my partner cannot Claim dominican citizenship AND i can't
Claim jamaican. Citizenship OH i knew that. ONE i can't
be a subject of the. King, okay what a.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Loss but you could be a subject to The spanish
king if you really did, thought IF i really thought for.

Speaker 4 (01:15:36):
It all, Right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
So listeners gave you a lot of information on, citizenships
some history information to go from. There, now where do
you get these? Documentations? First you need to find out
if they. Exist your first line of defense is try
to find copies of registered records that have been scanned
In these are not official, copies but they can be.

(01:15:59):
FOUND a lot of them can be found in family.
Search you can find travel, registers you can find birth,
certificates you can find marriage. Certificates if you, know if
you find like indis beautiful evidence someone was born there
and you qualify for that citizenship through descent or, whatever
you will actually have to get the original copy from that,

(01:16:19):
place which means you probably are going to have to
travel to that country and get the certified copy and
then you bring it back to The United, states or
you can finalize it down, there but you have to translate.
It oh, no you don't. Know you don't have to
translate it down. There you wouldn't have, to but then
you would have to bring your long form certificate that
from THE us that does have to be. Translated and

(01:16:40):
then and your parent they have to know the other
parent they need even though the other parent is not
a citizen or may not be a citizen of that,
country you will still have to bring. It they have
to verify your. Birth so it takes a while to
collect these documents one by. One usually there's a lot
of red tape and overlap waiting, times especially depending on

(01:17:00):
what state you may be getting things from or town.
Clerk but just a thing to look, into especially if
one day you are looking to relocate or, retire or
if you have familial property somewhere that you may be.
Inheriting BUT i will, say the minute you, start if
you become a, citizen the minute you start collecting income

(01:17:21):
from that, country you are paying taxes from that.

Speaker 6 (01:17:23):
Country called, on Does panama have? Investment because my dad's
got property, still that might be my loophole in CASE
i ever need to go.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
Back, listen we only need to have a plan put
my name on the. D i Thought panama was pretty. Restrictive.

Speaker 6 (01:17:38):
No, no but my father already has the. Property it's
like passed down from my. Grandparents like it's in the.
Family so like IF i own the, land like if
the land eventually comes to, me CAN i go back.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
That you have investment down.

Speaker 6 (01:17:50):
There that's WHAT i need to. KNOW i know it's
like from my great great. Grandparents like the house is
like the property still in the. Family so if eventually
it comes to me AND i need to go, BACK i.
Can If i'm like on the deed is WHAT i
need to.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Know, yeah, no you.

Speaker 8 (01:18:06):
Do you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:06):
Can you can buy your way back in all, Right
so just saying you can.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Push comes to.

Speaker 6 (01:18:11):
Shove i'm going back to the house in the.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
Mountains, well we're gonna think. Fast i'm trying to think
positively about. Stuff so, listeners if you would like to
speak further about, this please feel free to email us
and Rediscovering latini. DoD i would love to answer any
questions you have after formally going through this. Process bonus
points if it's All, salvador because LIKE i really know,

(01:18:34):
it but my. Wheelhouse it would be smart of you
that if you are granted this citizenship to then get
a FORMAL id or passport from this country for a
couple of. Reasons, actually one because any of us born
here in THE, us like you can walk around with
your birth. Certificate do you really want to? Know, really

(01:18:55):
you're gonna get your license or your STATE id. Card but,
secondly aside from, that a fun thing is your passport
In Latin america can get you Into.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
Cuba mm.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
Hmmm you can go To. Cuba you can't live, there
but you can.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
Visit you can, visit and we'll be talking About.

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
Cuba, yes we'll be talking About cuba in a few,
weeks so very. Cool that's ALL i have to. Say
BUT i hope that was, Clear, Edward do you have anything? Else?

Speaker 9 (01:19:20):
Still?

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
Clus? Good we were really?

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
Yeah well.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Done yeah, Right we're gonna go ahead and pat ourselves
in the. Back, well it's time for Rediscovering Latini dot.
Update you heard our long but wonderful episode about citizenship
and getting, citizenship and since we've, recorded The trump administration
has taken many steps about. Citizenship let's get into. THEM

(01:19:48):
i will start not, surprisingly they're going after birthright, citizenship
just LIKE i had said earlier in the. EPISODE i
had expected a, slower more judicial, process But trump right
out the. Gate january, twentieth he issued his executive order
saying that starting On february, twentieth twenty twenty, five if

(01:20:09):
a child does not have a parent who is A
us citizen or a lawful permanent, resident they would no
longer be a birthright.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
Citizen and don't.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
Forget that that includes visa, holders tourist, visas student, visas business,
visas work, VISAS h ONE, b et.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
Cetera if they had, children.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
Their citizenship would not be recognized so right now that
measure has been stalled in the courts literally today that
we're Recording february twenty, eighth In, Richmond, virginia the Second Appeals,
court the FOURTH Us Circuit, court has rejected The trump
administration's request to pause a nationwide injunction which was issued

(01:20:51):
by A maryland federal judge earlier in the. Month we
had the On february. Nineteenth The San francisco NINTH Us
Circuit court Of appeals also continued this block Of Donald trump's.
Order this was first blocked by a federal judge In,
seattle A Us District Judge John, Kaffiner and he's an

(01:21:16):
appointee Of Ronald, reagan so A republican waning on, this
and first issued a temporary injunction On january twenty. Third
then On february twenty six he made the injunction. Indefinite he,
said AND i, quote it has become more apparent that
to our, president the rule of law is but an
impediment to his policy. Goals the rule of law, is

(01:21:37):
according to, him something to navigate around or simply, ignore
whether that be for political or personal. Gain and earlier
in the month In San. Francisco one of the appeals
judge judges Judged Danielle, forrest Who trump appointed in his first,
term said nor do the circumstances themselves demonstrate an obvious

(01:21:58):
emergency in regards to to stop birthright citizen. Chip, so,
yeah apparently In San, francisco The Appeals court is going
to hear arguments In. June this is likely going to
reach The Supreme. Court, so and it remains to be.

(01:22:19):
Seen AS i said, earlier there's one hundred and thirty
years of this being constitutional precedent, people excepting that this
was covered under the Fourteenth. Amendment we'll see if that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:31):
Continues thank, You.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Edward it's sobering to hear that, update even when we're
hearing it live every single.

Speaker 8 (01:22:38):
DAY i guess smory of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
IT i have more sobering. Updates. Okay, so, Yesterday february twenty,
seventh the Same Ninth Circuit, court so The San francisco
Based Appeals court upheld a ruling that Blocked arizona's law
requiring proof of citizenship for voter. Registration this is a

(01:23:02):
huge multiple states are going to push you know that
before in most, places when you're registering the, vote you
don't need to have additional. Documentation arizona wanted this proof of,
citizenship but now that's also been paused in the. Courts
also to another bill to keep in, Mind congress is

(01:23:23):
considering The Safeguard American Voter Eligibility. Act so if you're
registering to, vote basically anyone who's birth certificate doesn't match
their current legal name would not be allowed to. Vote
now keep in mind that would include married women because
many of them change their last, Names so because it
would not match their birth, certificate they would not be

(01:23:45):
able to register to vote unless they could provide additional.
Documentation so that's another thing to keep in. Mind SHALL
i keep?

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
Going, OKAY i mean please do, Again like this is
the reality of the situation and we really need to
learn more and at the very least be, informed and
so thank you for doing the homework for.

Speaker 6 (01:24:06):
Us, yes but it also Names just to top, on
my brother recently got the new ENHANCED id that you
know how you can the old versions of licenses aren't
going to be valid to travel, anymore and he so my,
brothers both of my brothers were not born in The United,
states were born In. Panama so when he had to
bring HIS. Id he had to have his citizenship form

(01:24:29):
and His Social Security card as his two forms OF
id to apply for a new. License and on his
citizenship certificate it has both last names because he was
born In, panama so it has our paternal and maternal last,
names and none of his other documents have our maternal last.
Name and when he, like, luckily the guy gave him a,

(01:24:50):
break but he, said, hey by the, way Your Social
security card has one last name and your citizenship certificate
has two last. Names you may want to go and
request a New Social security card so it has, both
because if it's, inconsistent you may run into problems down the.
Line so, yeah that probably also would be an issue
if someone were registering to vote and came from a

(01:25:12):
country where they used two last names and suddenly now
you have documentation that just has one and not. Both
there's just another hurdle for immigrants to have to hop.

Speaker 4 (01:25:22):
Over so most Of Latin, american, yeah, really that's, yep
that's a great tip and also just for everyone right
as these quote real ideas need to get into, effect like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
All of, us regardless of where we're, from we need
to get them because otherwise we're be in a heap of.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
Trouble. Yeah, Yeah i've had a real idea for a
couple of years, now just BECAUSE i think the deadline
right had been extended a couple of, times but had
been extended a couple of, TIMES i think like twenty
twenty three was one of them because OF. Covid there you.

(01:26:03):
Go and so just WHEN i was applying for my new,
IDEA i was just kind of, like let me just
get my REAL. Id but one of the things That
i've also done IS i applied for and received my
passport card so That i'm not having to carry my
passport around and hopefully when you're at least within The United,
states that is worth for. Something but you, KNOW i

(01:26:25):
think any form of identification or LIKE i hate to
say this, way but like government recognition right of who you,
are a government confirmation of your of YOUR id is absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:26:39):
IMPORTANT i wonder If i'm going to be A sol
even THOUGH i was born in THE. Us in THE,
US i have my husband's last name on most, ideas
and my birth certificate is my pre marriage last, name
which is also the name that's on my lapital. Registration
they don't recognize your married name unless your marriage is formally,
registered which you may. Need turning for an Al. Savador,

(01:27:01):
Wow SO i have both two IDs on. Me one
is MY us license and one is My Al SALVADOR
I D and there are two different. Names probably should
if you're like, Me guys you just learned on this,
update don't do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
That, yeah run all YOUR id past people who know
more than we do to see if it's.

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
Acceptable oh, MAN.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
I don't know about you, listeners but we could have
doomsday like predicted some, things and then when it started,
HAPPENING i feel like it happened faster and just worse
than we ever could have. Imagined LIKE i don't, know like,
this like how fast his attacks on. CITIZENSHIP i didn't
expect it to be day, one, RIGHT i knew he
would start like barking in this first ninety, days but

(01:27:48):
it is Like thomas trained full full steam.

Speaker 4 (01:27:50):
Ahead, YEAH i hear. You AND i also kind of
feel like this is a, vengeance, right like literally coming
back with a. Vengeance AND i feel like we were
also warned about all of these things being In project
twenty to twenty. Five at least you know some of
us who, listen perhaps to more progressive like independent. Media you,

(01:28:15):
Know i'm not assuming that everyone, does BUT i.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Mean mainstream media also Covered project twenty twenty five, Too,
okay but, yeah a lot of people didn't pay. Attention
they didn't pay.

Speaker 4 (01:28:24):
Attention they didn't we didn't want to believe, it, Right
perhaps we didn't want to believe that in our country
people could be so, evil maybe for lack of a better, term,
Right but, yeah people can and get, there and especially
when they have you, know a certain agenda that is

(01:28:45):
a nationalist, right but also DARE i, say a, racist classist,
right a misogynist, agenda like they weren't going to try
to wait for, anything and given The Supreme court case that,
essentially you, know indicated that they grant a president immunity

(01:29:07):
while they're in, power like it was just a perfect,
storm a perfect storm for all of this to sort
of happen so quickly and so. Immediately and then it's
not even like they're actually passing, laws, right it's just
executive orders from the executive. Branch so, yeah there are some,
limits but, yes it's going to take some wild while

(01:29:28):
to get through the. Court and then, also, YES i
wonder if they will actually listen to any court orders
in the, future because it seems like they've already started
ignoring plenty of them and all two.

Speaker 3 (01:29:40):
Things on, that If i'm not, Mistaken just a few days,
ago didn't we just receive news that he is the
one that interprets the?

Speaker 8 (01:29:50):
Law or AM i paraphrasing?

Speaker 3 (01:29:52):
It like there was SOMETHING i read in the news
where he, LIKE i wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:29:56):
The napoleon thing where if you do it for your
country then it's.

Speaker 6 (01:30:02):
Trader, yeah he said something to that. Effect if it's
for the good of your, country there's no such thing
as a trader something like that he, said which makes
it zero sense because we wouldn't have had a civil
war if that was the.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Case, like come, on, guy and it sounds awfully familiar
to if the president does, it then it is not.
Illegal i'm Not that was my Best nixon.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
Impression oh man so speaking about the nationalist. Agenda also
breaking news from, Today february twenty, Eighth trump is planning
to sign executive order Making english the official language of
The United. States this is the first time our country
will have ever had an official. Language what do we
think about?

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
That stupid idiotic just like what you're still going to
have to find ways to translate things for. People, well but,
see and especially for those millionaires that you, know once
take get their five million Dollar trump, card who may
not necessarily be the most well, versed BUT i guess
they don't necessarily have to deal with the, government, Right oh,

(01:31:08):
gosh but, Yeah i'm, Sorry. Edward you we're going to say.
Something and THEN i just wanted to. Know oh, no,
NO i was just. Saying.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
Yeah so apparently there was a mandate From Bill clinton
that required government organizations that get federal funding to provide
language assistance for Non english. Speakers, yeah and also, too
keep in, mind within hours of taking off His trump
shut down The spanish language version of The White house,
website just as he did in his first.

Speaker 6 (01:31:35):
Term so funding to the suicide, Hotline like what is
this guy? Doing just left and, right all of these
crazy edicts just getting strickened. Down it's insane.

Speaker 4 (01:31:44):
Back with a, vengeance and, LITERALLY i think we're being
punished for twenty, twenty you, know we're being punished for
not reelecting. Him like he's a, small, small teeny, tiny
little insecure like shell of a. Man like it's it's
so sad to see, it and then it's still sad
to then have to experience like THE i, guess the
vitriolic revenge and a consequences thank, you an abuse of

(01:32:08):
power in this. Way So fausto brought up The Trump Gold.
Card let's dive into.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
That Literally tuesday of this, week, Declined trump floated the
idea of replacing a visa program for foreign investors who
CREATE us. Jobs it could be a path to. Citizenship
it's called THE eb five. Visa he just wants The
Trump Gold, card where you pay five million dollars and
you get an instant path the. Citizenship apparently it. Is

(01:32:37):
it does happen in other Countries, Spain, Greece, Malta, Egypt,
jordan places in The, Dominica, Grenada Saint kitts And.

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
Nevis oh, yeah it sounds like it's this is a
this is citizenship by. Investment he's just co opting it
and putting his own name.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
On, it right versus uh as opposed to setting up
a business just flat out paying. CASH a journal assasked
him If russian ola garchs would be, eligible and he, said, quote, yeah. Possibly,
HEY i know Some russian oligarchs that are very nice.
People so you mean.

Speaker 4 (01:33:16):
The ones that haven't thrown themselves out. Windows oh, sorry
that was a bit of a dark.

Speaker 8 (01:33:20):
Joke, Hey i'm here for. It, Well, edward do you
happen to have this information?

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
HANDY i apologies putting you on the. Spot there have
to be examples of other countries that have made a
sort of attack on birthright citizenship where there has to
be other LIKE i Know germany has something very, similar
and there's got to be other countries where it's not
just the lease isn't necessarily. HONORED i Think germany.

Speaker 4 (01:33:54):
Father is a.

Speaker 3 (01:33:54):
Citizen, yeah there's got to be like there's like blood
like literally like to the like Basically.

Speaker 4 (01:34:01):
German there's at least one THAT i know of really, well,
right which is The Dominican. Republic, yeah what was it
about ten years ago passing a law to revoke the
citizenship of any The dominicans Of haitian heritage that arrived

(01:34:21):
in The Dominican republic AFTER i think nineteen twenty, SOMETHING
i was maybe twenty, Nine and funny is what.

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
Happened after twenty?

Speaker 4 (01:34:28):
Nine you have through here exactly. Exactly so it's, yeah
so it's been really disheartening to disheartening. Tragic i'm at
a loss for words at how horrendous and horrible that
is and the plight of The haitian people who have

(01:34:48):
tried to like live and work in The Dominican. Republic
right To, MELISSA i think you shared with us an
article a few a few weeks ago where it was
essentially describing the deportation Of haitian migrants from The Dominican.
Republic and you, know we are we are seeing some
of these horrible things on television here and they are

(01:35:10):
also happening in The Dominican republic where immigration officers are
literally bursting into people's homes in the middle of the
night and just taking, people putting, them detaining, them putting
them on a, bus and just driving them across the
across the. Border oftentimes their documents are are, confiscated right,

(01:35:31):
so whether they arrived in The dominican side or The haitian,
side right, like they're essentially stateless because they have no
form of, identification no way to prove you, know where
they were, born and especially if they were born in
The Dominican, republic right, like then those records would would
absolutely be be. Confiscated SO i it's, Right so, like

(01:35:54):
at the very least we know of one other where
that is is also where that is also, happening and
then the effect that it has had on the on
The haitian. People BUT i Think dominican people don't necessarily
either understand the effect on The dominican economy and then

(01:36:16):
just how wasteful it, is because it's not Like haitian,
migrants you, know just want to and just like walk
across the, board. Right they're often trafficked as well by
what are essentially coyote is and some of the sugar
like business plantations right like to be real and to be,

(01:36:39):
Honest so it often ends up being a waste because
even some of those who are quote unquote deported back
to like the are still either they make it across
or make it back or brought back in some, way
shape or. Form most often they're put onto boats and
then taken to the east side of the, island which
is where we grow a lot of our. Sugarcane verify

(01:37:02):
this this is, Happening google, aid there's a documentary about
it as. Well let me look up the.

Speaker 2 (01:37:06):
Name one more thing that happened this. Week we have
a district judge also In Seattle Jamal, whitehead appointed By.
Biden he's the first to Block trump's order indefinitely suspending
THE us refugee admissions, program And Judge whitehead said not
too surprisingly that the president's order quote likely crossed the

(01:37:28):
line of separation of.

Speaker 6 (01:37:30):
Powers so not the first time he's done that this
week or this.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
Month, yeah and then maybe it's on a lighter. NOTE
i don't. Know also from this, week apparently over quarter
Million canadians signed a petition to Revoke Elon Musk's canadian.
Citizenship musk's response ON x Was canada is not a real.

Speaker 6 (01:37:52):
COUNTRY i wonder where we're going to get all of
those resources and minerals that aren't native to THE, us
and our timber and all of that good. Stuff they
don't realize how globalized our trade, is how the infrastructure
of the country alone is so. Globalized there are so
many resources and minerals that we cannot mine in THE

(01:38:14):
us that we only can get From. CANADA i don't
see what their endgame. Is it really doesn't make any.

Speaker 3 (01:38:19):
Sense we will keep listeners updated with developments on, citizenship
and we will also provide resources as we find them for.
LISTENERS i myself have done a tremendous amount of, research
And i'd be happy to talk to any listener about
any documents they may need and where to find the
requirements for citizenship in any country they, qualify because it's

(01:38:43):
the long, process AND i currently OBTAIN i have dual
citizenship WITH us And Al, salvador AND i am already
starting the process of getting one for a country in THE.
Eu And i'm also trying to convince my spouse to
get to other citizenships he has qualified, for one of
WHICH i could get through marriage once he gets. It
so you never know can hurt to get passed several

(01:39:05):
different kinds of. Passports the name, match but keep you
make sure your name's.

Speaker 8 (01:39:11):
Match sure your name.

Speaker 4 (01:39:12):
Match that's, yeah make sure your name's. Match it is
like one thing you take away my. Goodness, Yeah and
just to sort of piggyback off of What briar, says
you know where we're really sharing a lot of information
we're sharing also you know that it's applicable for, today
but also a lot of historical information out of. History

(01:39:33):
and so if you think that this information is useful
to you and will be useful to anybody, else please
Please please feel free to forward our podcast episodes whichever
ones you think would be the most relevant or the
most helpful for for anyone in your circle and in your.

(01:39:54):
Community we just want to make sure everyone is is
informed and taken care. Of so that being, SAID i
also want to give a shout out to my cousin
in Law lucia for posting our last episode On. Instagram
she really just wants to make sure that other people

(01:40:16):
are informed and learn what their what their rights.

Speaker 3 (01:40:19):
Are, absolutely thank. You so these two episodes last week
and this week are pretty, heavy. Y'all when we recorded this,
EPISODE i tried to go into the episode recording with
some hope and then all of a, sudden day. One
now we're fighting against the negative. Curd so that's ALL i.
Have does anyone have anything?

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Else, well next week's episode is going to be a
change of. PACE i don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
That next, week, yeah it's.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
Going to be some cool historical tales to keep our
mind off of the. PRESENT dna is going to take
us into the distant, past so that should be an interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
Excursion oh and we Brought columbus back into the. Conversation
if you guys ever thought we would leave him.

Speaker 8 (01:40:58):
Alone we never will.

Speaker 3 (01:41:00):
Never leave that man.

Speaker 4 (01:41:01):
Alone he can never never.

Speaker 2 (01:41:03):
Freaking, yeah oh my, gosh but, YEAH i think people
just please take care of, yourselves check in on your
friends and your loved.

Speaker 4 (01:41:12):
Ones make sure your documents are all in order in a,
bag the fire and.

Speaker 3 (01:41:19):
Waterproof, also if you happen to have double, copies make
sure one isn't a fireproof box one hundred feet away
from the other.

Speaker 4 (01:41:25):
One, Okay monica and security.

Speaker 6 (01:41:32):
Guard my brother learned that the hard, way don't. They
my parents laminated theirs like in the eighties before they
told them not, to and he had to request a
new one because of course it doesn't have the second
name on, it and so he's, like, CRAP i can't
use this. Anyway, yeah don't laminate your. Documents just keep
them in a safe location and keep them the way

(01:41:53):
that the government wants to receive.

Speaker 4 (01:41:54):
Them it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:55):
Was it was a trying day at THE dmv for.

Speaker 4 (01:41:57):
Us oh, no.

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
Especially so That's i've never heard of a day not
trying and THE, mdmb but that seems especially so my
day comes In, april.

Speaker 4 (01:42:08):
Guys, look, yes that's to St, LOOK i have to.

Speaker 3 (01:42:14):
Get the enhanced I d so THAT i may travel
in The United. States may, seven do not. FORGET i can't.
Forget that's two days after single TO myo everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
Birthday the.

Speaker 3 (01:42:27):
Listeners tune in for next week's episode where we'll take
a break and go down the historical lane and we
will talk. SOON i would also like to add for
any listeners if you have additional resources or would like
to speak with, us we are our emails open and
we are open to receiving all resources and, updates and
we can revisit this topic as it develops. Sometime we

(01:42:50):
as we've said many times, before a lot of our,
EPISODES i seed episodes and they develop and they, grow
and they're revisited throughout different. Seasons SO i hope we
have a happier ending with an update to this in future.

Speaker 4 (01:43:02):
Seasons and you Know briar has been including resources into every. Episode,
note so, again, yes please send over anything that you
may have that you know about so that we can
have a running. List, yeah, okay and we're going to
do a little. Housekeeping if you love our, Podcast Rediscovering
latined that please hit follow or. Subscribe it is different from,

(01:43:24):
downloading and please leave us a five star rating and.
Review for more family history, tips visit rediscovering latined that
dot com to learn how to join Our patreon and
gain access to our exclusive lessons and bonus. Interviews you
can also send us an email At rediscovering Latini that
at gmail dot, com or call or text us at

(01:43:44):
six four six four seven zero nine eight two, four
and follow us on our social media at rediscovering latined
ad On facebook And, instagram at redisc latined ad On
Blue sky and x and Rediscovering lead On. Reddit join
us next week as we. Discuss next week is going

(01:44:05):
to be.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Fun we're going to talk about ANCIENT dna and we're
going to answer a few. Things Was Columbus? Jewish we're
going to figure out are The Black irish Actually? Spanish
and who were The. Celtiberians we're going to learn all
that in time For Saint Patrick's, day so and porum
which is next, week.

Speaker 4 (01:44:25):
Which is next, Week so, YEAH i won't be, here
but enjoy you guys a little bit Of jewish And
irish love for.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
You so bye bye bye

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