April 2, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode of the Reel Turf Techs Podcast, we sit down with Jim Merritt, founder and CEO of JRM, Inc. Jim’s journey in the turf industry began as a teenager working on golf courses, eventually leading to a successful career as a superintendent in North Carolina. Frustrated with the quality of aerification tines in the early 1990s, he started crafting his own—building a product that lasted longer and performed better. What began as a side project evolved into a partnership with Redexim Holland, paving the way for JRM’s creation.
Jim shares the origins of his innovative approach to bedknives and reels, the importance of listening to customers, and his vision for the future of JRM. He also reflects on his unconventional career path, from his family's accounting tradition to pursuing turfgrass science at the encouragement of a mentor. Join us for a deep dive into the mind of a turf industry innovator, his philosophy on success, and, of course, his two heroes—Jesus and Tarzan.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Trent Manning (00:05):
Welcome to the reel turf techs podcast for the
technician that wants to getreel follow along.
As we talk to industryprofessionals and address hot
topics that we all face alongthe way we'll learn tips and
tricks.
I'm your host, Trent.
Manning let's have some Welcometo The Reel Turf Techs Podcast,
(00:26):
episode one 40.
Today we're talking to JimMerrit, founder and CEO of JRM,
incorporated.
Jim started working at a golfcourse as a teenager, and that
led to its successful career asa superintendent at several
prominent golf courses in NorthCarolina.
Frustrated with the quality ofverification times in the early
(00:47):
1990s.
Jim started making his own tinesthat could last and pull cores
longer.
Jim made tides for his deep tideverification business before
landing a contract with RedexHolland.
This contract helped Jimofficially incorporate JRM and
the rest is history.
(01:07):
Let's hear a little bit of thathistory today.
Let's talk to Jim.
And just a friendly reminder.
Jim's two favorite heroes areJesus and Tarzan.
Tell me a little bit of yourbackground and how you got
started in the turf industry.
Jim Merritt (01:23):
In 1967, I was 16.
And my dad, who was born in1919, was 11 years old when the
Great Depression hit.
So he saw a lot.
And it formed the person that hewas.
So, he was a conservative, nononsense kind of guy.
Fought in World War II.
And He told me.
(01:44):
He said, son, get a job.
I mean manual labor.
You're not laying around thehouse this summer.
And so, um, I went to work forReynolds Park Golf Course, which
was owned by the city of WinstonSalem.
They own two golf courses.
And I went to work on themaintenance department.
And that's where I got started.
(02:04):
And of course, I was just a kid.
And it was a very enlighteningexperience.
I worked there probably eightsummers in a row.
All through college, all throughhigh school, then post-graduate,
when I went on and got my turfdegree, I was still working
there during the summers.
The superintendent and theforeman were the same.
Stayed there the whole time.
(02:25):
They knew me from one season tothe next.
So I got to know those men verywell.
And I got to work with, um, menthat were.
in their 40s and 50s.
Now, here I am a kid,
Trent Manning (02:38):
so
Jim Merritt (02:38):
I saw a lot, learned a lot from those men.
It was a different world fromwhat I had grown up in, and so
it was a real eye opener for me.
but I I went to college, got mycollege degree at Campbell, and
when I came out thesuperintendent there at where I
(02:59):
had been working at ReynoldsPark, Convinced me to go back
and get a concentration in turfgrass science.
Trent Manning (03:06):
Okay.
Jim Merritt (03:07):
I looked at NC State and quite frankly, I was
Less impressed than I was withCatawba Valley Technical
Institute.
I went up there and I met with aHarry Dubose who was a professor
up there and Harry was just oneof those individuals that was
Capable of of reallycommunicating effectively.
Brilliant guy.
(03:28):
And, um, so I chose to go there.
And they had a real focus onturf grass.
And I was there and did well, Iguess.
Harry became, I didn't know thatHarry was as close to my age as
he was, but he was, he's five orsix years older is all.
Harry and Gail became goodfriends.
(03:50):
They're still good friends.
And He, when I he helped me getthe job at Charlotte Country
Club.
So, as soon as I graduated, Istepped right in to the
assistant superintendentposition at Charlotte Country
Club.
So, that was 77 and I stayedthere for 5 years through 1982.
Why did
Trent Manning (04:08):
you started working at a golf course at a
really young age, why did youwant to continue to pursue that?
You just really enjoyed workingoutside or
Jim Merritt (04:16):
there's a
Trent Manning (04:17):
lot that goes into that.
Jim Merritt (04:18):
Yeah.
Okay.
My dad was an accountant, hisdad was an accountant.
I did not want to be anaccountant.
Trent Manning (04:25):
Uhhuh.
Jim Merritt (04:26):
And so, um, I love outdoors.
I love nature.
and so I enjoyed going to workand listening to the birds and
the see the squirrels and therabbits and run around and play.
And I'll never forget I wastrying to get my nephew.
To do the same thing, to get onthat path and go work during the
summers, during the, and he's mybrother's kid.
(04:47):
I said, but Joe, you'll get tosee the rabbits and the birds
and the squirrels.
He looked at me and he says,Jim, I don't give a, about
rabbits, squirrels, and birds.
He went to become a pizzadelivery boy.
Which my dad would have nevertolerated for me.
They didn't have those things in67.
But, um, Dad wanted me to workhard.
He wanted me to see what it waslike.
(05:08):
To know that I didn't wanna bedigging mud in ditches at 50 and
it, so I went on and became agolf course superintendent
later.
And I, like I said, I was atCharlotte Country Club five
years, then I took the headgrounds position at Salisbury
Country Club and I was therefive years.
And when I went to Salisbury itwas a little different because
(05:32):
they had rubic code tenniscourts.
And I was over everythingoutside, including the pool.
So I had to learn about poolsand I had to learn about
maintaining tennis courts andvarious other things and
watering them and, but it, butalso you had to learn the
various committees.
You have a tennis committee, yougot a pool committee.
And those people, their paradigmis pool and so you have to
(05:55):
navigate those personalities.
If you can follow what I'msaying.
And the ladies, you havehoneybees at the pool around
drinks.
They don't like that.
I mean, it's just learning tonavigate personalities, which
I've never been the best at.
(06:16):
But, um, I went on fromSalisbury Country Club to Twan
Gotham Country Club, where I wasgolf director and general
manager.
And As general manager, that wasa whole new look at the world.
I had to, I was responsible forall the club budgets, and I had
to get those assembled from thedepartments, and tidy that up, I
had to attend every boardmeeting, and it was, again, it
(06:40):
was an eye opener as well.
Edenton is a very, it's up onthe Alvin Wallace Sound, it's a
very unique community.
You had a board of directors,which I answered to the
president, ultimately to theboard.
Some of them were, um, locals.
The granddaddies had grown upthere.
(07:01):
Others, because Edenton's sopretty and it's right on the
Albemarle Sound.
And it's three miles wide wherethe country club is.
It's beautiful.
And it's kind of freshwater,mostly.
Some of them get a littlebrackish.
So you have leaders in theirfield from around the country
would retire there, and theydid, and they'd get on the board
of directors.
(07:22):
So I had some really amazingindividuals that I worked for.
And became friends with, a guyby the name of John Penn.
He went through the CornellHotel School.
Trent Manning (07:34):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Jim Merritt (07:35):
Wow.
And then when he got out, he wasgeneral manager.
And he was general manager atOakmont Country Club.
Three years of which they hadthe U.
S.
Open there.
Oh, wow.
Trent Manning (07:44):
Yeah.
Jim Merritt (07:45):
He was Orford Caesar's palace.
He turned it down because hedidn't want to raise his family
there and became the, uh,general manager of the New York,
was it, New York Athletic Club,I think it was.
Okay.
It was another big deal club.
Huh.
So, and so he was on my board.
He was the number two tennisplayer when he was at Cornell.
(08:05):
So he loved tennis.
I liked tennis.
John and I got to be goodfriends.
Trent Manning (08:08):
So he
Jim Merritt (08:09):
and Barbara and I became good.
His wife, Barbara, we becamegood friends.
And, so that's kind of how itled to a foundation of over many
years watching things takeplace.
And so that's how I got into it.
And that's where I, you know.
Trent Manning (08:29):
Where I
Jim Merritt (08:30):
went.
Trent Manning (08:30):
All right.
How did you start making yourown tines?
What, and what inspired that?
Jim Merritt (08:36):
I I wanted to make a little extra money.
So I bought a Verti Drain, whichwas made by Redexum.
They're out of Holland.
And I bought a tractor,Mitsubishi 45 horsepower
tractor.
I thought, we'll go do this.
Now, this was in 19, Iincorporated in August of 1992.
(08:57):
Okay.
Okay.
And I bought my Verde Reign andmy tractor from the Redexum
distributor out of Charlotte,which at that time was E.
J.
Smith Group, or E.
J.
Smith Son.
When I was at Charlotte CountryClub, I got to know those men at
E.
J.
Smith.
Because I was running over thereall the time picking up parts
for Charlotte Country Club.
(09:17):
It was just across town.
Those men in 77 grew intopositions of authority and E.
J.
Smithson's son.
And they became my friends and Istayed friends with them.
So, when I started, I bought myvertigrain from them.
I started doing this thing andthe tines weren't performing
(09:40):
very well.
Most of my customers were alsomy friends.
Because I had been an assistantwhen they were assistants.
Yep.
So I grew up with those men aswell.
And so now I'm going on to afriend's golf course and he's
going to do soil exchange andthe tines won't pull a cord but
like two greens.
And then it becomes clogged upand then you're not doing soil
(10:02):
exchange.
That was not only anembarrassment to me, I knew what
my friends wanted.
So I decided that I needed to dosomething about this.
So I went to a local machineshop in Statesville and I asked
the guy if he could make, Ishowed him one of the tines, I
said, can you make this?
He goes, huh.
I said, good.
And so he started making them.
I went back to him, it probablywasn't three times, and had him
(10:24):
dimensionally change thoseparts.
And next thing you know, I gottines that worked.
I mean, worked.
Full life of the tine.
And I recognized that was apretty good thing.
And I knew there were othercontractors out there that had
been in business for much longerthan I had.
Redexen introduced the Verdedrain in 1985 to the U.
(10:50):
S.
Okay.
It had been innovated in Europespecifically to do soccer
fields.
But now they introduced it in1985 and they actually had a
field day in 1985.
Now I met Salisbury Country Clubin 1985.
They had a field day atCharlotte Country Club on number
five green.
They had all the superintendentscome around and whatnot.
(11:10):
And my boss, my former boss,Johnny Burns, called me and
said, Jim, Remember how you usedto sit in the office on winter
days and just dream of going sixinches deep on these drains?
I said, yeah, I do.
He said this machine will goten, eleven inches deep.
You need to see this.
So I went down for the fieldday.
Ruud Fransissen, the president,or general manager of Redection,
(11:32):
was there.
And their senior engineer,Marina Sriniki.
And I met them both.
Clueless that I'd ever have anyother contact with them.
I did stay later.
Everybody else kind of left.
But I was the only formerassistant, so I stayed and chit
chatted.
Then I went on about mybusiness.
So now we are in 1993.
(11:53):
And I've got a time that'sworking pretty well.
And I started calling othercontractors that had gotten into
the contracting business yearsbefore that I knew.
And you can kind of domino it,you know, and find out from
another.
And so I sent them some time andsaid, here, try these.
They got back with me.
I figured everybody's having touse the same time.
Trent Manning (12:13):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because as I back then it wasjust one distributor, right?
Jim Merritt (12:17):
And so, um, they got back with me and said, man,
these things work great.
How much you want for them?
I said I don't know.
Okay, so I made three or fourdollars a time, not much.
Trent Manning (12:28):
But
Jim Merritt (12:28):
I started going around and finding out about
others.
I even found out about a guynamed Bob Doty in Ohio and
started, he's a contractor upthere, started selling tithes to
him.
And this is where it reallyturned spiritual for me.
So please allow me to do that.
Oh, of course.
One morning, late March, I wokeup on a Monday morning.
(12:49):
I just woke up and knew I neededto Now, they had cell phones in
those days, but they didn't callEurope, and so I didn't know how
to call Europe.
So I thought, okay, so I calledback down to my buddy at E.
J.
Smith's group that I bought myVerti ring from and said, Troy
I'm making tithes.
He said, yeah, Jim, I know youare.
We aren't selling as many now.
I said, sorry about that.
(13:10):
And he said I said, you thinkRex would be interested in my
tithes?
He said, I don't know.
And I said how do you callHolland?
He said, you don't have to.
The North American importer isin Wilkes Barre, PA.
It's an 800 number.
Here it is.
Charlie Otto.
Oh, okay.
I hung up the phone, calledCharlie up there to Wilkes
(13:32):
Barre, PA and got Charlie Ottoon the phone.
And, of course, I introducedmyself and explained why I was
calling.
I talked to Charlie for, I don'tknow, seven or eight days.
minutes.
Charlie stops me and he says,Jim, what made you call me this
morning?
I didn't, I was not expectingthat question, obviously.
I said Charlie, I honestly, Ijust got up this morning and
(13:54):
knew I needed to call Redexum.
And it was dead silence.
Seemed like forever, probablyonly 10 seconds, but it seemed
like it was forever.
And he comes back and he says,no one knows this yet.
But Redexum just lost theirsupplier for tines.
And I said back to him, I saidCharlie, I know who does know
(14:15):
it.
And he said, yes, he does.
The next morning at 7 a.
m., I'm woken up by a rudefriend, Sisson, whom I had met
in 1985 at Charlotte CountryClub, calling from Holland to
talk to me about tines.
How cool is that?
I didn't expect it.
(14:35):
Yeah.
But that's the Heavenly Fatherat work.
And nobody understands the realpower there.
I don't think.
So, we talked and he said, Doyou have a fax?
I said, yes.
So he said, I'm gonna, MarinusRenicki, is going to um, fax you
over the list of times that weneed for testing.
(14:56):
Who's gonna fax over?
Marina's, who was their headengineer.
Okay.
Redickson's head engineer, andwhom I also had met in 1985.
And I'm sort of putting thepieces of the puzzle together as
this is unfolding quickly.
And they said to use our FedExnumber and just FedEx the stuff
to us, which I did.
I went to the machine shop andsaid, He said, okay.
(15:17):
Made them.
to my spec, and then I shippedthem over there to them.
Probably a week at the most.
They called, Rude called meback.
Said, Jim, your ties work great.
How much you want for them?
Oh, okay.
I said I'll have to work you upa matrix for them at.
Trent Manning (15:37):
I
Jim Merritt (15:38):
said, I'll get it worked up and I'll get it to
you.
Not having a clue what I wasgoing to do here.
Okay.
So I called back down to mybuddy, DJ Smith's group.
I said, Troy, can you get intothe computer and see what you're
buying these tines for fromRodexum?
(15:59):
He said, sure.
Because he was wholesaling them,right?
So that's what he did.
We went down it part number bypart number.
And I just backed it down, Ithink, 35%.
I said, I took what they werepaying and I backed it down 35%.
Rodexum probably wouldn't makethat.
And I said, that's the price I'mgonna put on it.
I went down.
It took us a good hour and ahalf to go down through all
(16:19):
those parts and pull it up andIt was instrumental though.
So I took those prices, knowingthere's no way the machine shop
was gonna make them for that.
And I sent it over to Redexumand within a day's time they
accepted my pricing.
Okay?
Yeah.
So now, then we put a contracttogether, an agreement together.
(16:40):
First a letter of intent, andthen an agreement together.
Which basically guaranteed mehalf a million dollars for five
years.
Wow.
How cool.
That was cool.
Except that's just a piece ofpaper.
Okay, I had no clue how to makeanything.
I grew grass.
Yep.
I didn't have a building.
I didn't have any equipment.
I had nothing but a nice pieceof paper.
(17:02):
So I said, I'll go to the banks.
I'll show them this piece ofpaper.
So I did.
I went to the bank.
And I explained what I wanted todo and they asked me difficult
questions like what have youbeen doing for the last X number
of years?
I said I've been asuperintendent.
I've been growing grass.
What do you know aboutmanufacturing?
I don't know anything.
Mr.
Merritt, it's wonderful.
(17:25):
You've got a nice contract, buthe's in Europe.
What if he doesn't pay you?
Oh, they're nice people.
They'll pay us right down theroad to a bank.
Just going down the road toanother bank.
So I went to many banks.
And finally found a bank thatwould take a chance on me.
Now I had some cash.
And I'm still looking now forsomeone to make these things at
(17:45):
a price that would work.
And I'd heard of a machine shopin Lexington.
I was living in Winston Salem.
So I'm driving down Highway 150.
And it's a 55 mile an hour zone,and I was probably doing 65.
And I come by.
A sign said Dalton's MetalsWorks.
And I catch it out of the cornerof my eye and I did a bat turn
(18:06):
right into the driveway.
And I come in here.
And it was that originalbuilding, 60 by 80, on an acre
and a half.
And I walk in the building andit was pretty much empty.
There was one guy standing inthe back by one piece of
machinery.
I walked back there to him and Isaid, introduced myself.
He introduced himself and hesaid, I'm Jack Dalton.
And I said, hey.
(18:27):
I said, what's going on here?
I'm selling out.
Oh, okay.
Good.
You're selling all yourequipment.
That's good.
What are you going to do withthe building?
We'll sell it, I guess.
I said, have you ever heard of apurchased money mortgage?
He said, no.
I said it's underfinancing.
Would you be interested insomething like that?
Trent Manning (18:44):
No.
Jim Merritt (18:44):
Yeah, maybe.
I put a deal together with himin a matter of days.
Went through the attorneys andnow I have a building.
So, at that point, I put an adin the paper for a machinist, a
guy by the name of Jim Kent, whohad, from up north, he had been
a machinist on a nuclear sub forlike eight years.
(19:08):
And he had decided he didn'tlike it north, he didn't want to
move down here.
So he was here looking for ajob.
And so he came in and he said,Jim, let's go shopping.
Bought some equipment, hiredsome operators.
He made my fixturing, and Istarted making tines.
Just like that.
Just like that.
Trent Manning (19:27):
And you were you still a golf course
superintendent?
Jim Merritt (19:30):
No, I quit that in the winter of 93.
When I realized I had goodtines, I felt like I needed to
devote myself to JRM.
And many people have said thatwas a bold move to me.
It was just It wasn't I don'tknow how to describe it.
(19:51):
It was this is what I need todo.
Yeah, I can't I can't describeit But other than that, but you
know, that's what how I got intomaking times noted up jrm Um, as
a kid, 17, 16, 18, I'm watching.
We were air fighting at ReynoldsPark.
(20:14):
There were two golf courses thatwere owned by the city, Reynolds
Park and Winston Lake.
And they'd shuffle me back andforth.
So I was watching.
And over the years, I noticedthat Toro didn't even have a
greens air fire.
They didn't have one then.
Okay, but they came out with onein, I don't remember, late 70s,
early, early 80s, but, um, theywere improving the machine.
(20:40):
There was no focus at all ontrying to improve the quality of
the tines.
And, I was at Salisbury CountryClub in the fall of 86, and we
were aerofying our greens thatfall for fall renovation.
And, um, Like most, every golfcourse out there, you've got one
(21:01):
or two greens that are yourproblem greens, and you're just,
you know, you're tough, and soAt that time I was getting about
three greens per set of times.
And It so happened that numberten green was a low pocketed
green, big trees around it, backcreek, horrible air circulation.
It was just a problem green, andI wanted to get as much depth on
(21:23):
that green airification as Icould.
And so I was changing the tinesprematurely because I wanted the
tines, you'd get decent depth onyour first green, second green
and start to wear, third greenis nothing but butter and to go
away.
And I didn't want that.
So I'm down there, my mechanicwas working on the top dress.
(21:46):
My assistant was changing cupson the front nine because the
ladies didn't mind playing onbumpy greens.
So they were waiting for us toexit, verifying number 10 green.
And they're up there watching,right?
The ladies are all up therewatching.
One of them happened to be thewife of the chairman of the
(22:07):
greens committee.
And I knew what was going on.
So I'm changing tines and I'mdown there doing it a little
early, prematurely.
And here comes my boss.
He comes down the car path.
I knew what was going to happen.
Hoi Pope drives up to me andasks me what I'm doing.
I said, I'm changing.
I'm about halfway done.
I said, I'm changing times.
(22:29):
He said some unpleasant thingsto me.
And then just drove off.
I thought I'm going to finishchanging times.
So I did.
Point being is, the nextFebruary, the It wasn't really
called an internationalconference and show that year, I
don't think.
But it was in Phoenix, Arizona.
(22:49):
And I went to it.
So I went to the Toro booth.
The big Toro booth.
I said, I walked in there and Isaid, Do you have an engineer
here?
They said, Sure.
Bob, come over here.
So Bob comes over and I said,Bob, make me a tine that will do
all 18 holes.
Where I don't have to stop myair fire.
Where I can keep on going andget it done.
(23:12):
He said, can't be done.
Turned around and walked off.
Left me standing there in themiddle of the Toro booth.
I was standing there lookingaround.
So I thought, okay, it can't bedone.
I didn't know.
So I left.
So how did the lenient timechange things?
When I started making tines forRedexum, I really got going
heavily, 94, 95.
(23:33):
And, um, That's when I startedlooking at trying to come out
with a tine that would do all18, 19 greens or 20 if you've
got two practice greens withouthaving to change the darn
things.
And it took me several attemptsand whatnot, but that's, we
figured it out and I introducedthe delineum tine in 1998.
(23:57):
Okay.
Okay?
Yep.
And there was surface tensionbecause times have been costing
a buck, maybe a buck and aquarter, and I'm saying pay me
10.
You gotta be crazy.
And I'm saying, yeah, but lookat all these tines.
You add up all the cost in thesetines.
Look at these few little tines.
Yeah.
It's less expensive.
But the real joy, the realbenefit is you start it.
(24:18):
Usually when you're air fine,you start at daylight.
Equated dark.
You get the golf course opensooner.
Everything starts withaerifying.
If you get it done, then allyour follow up processes are not
held up and you can move rightalong.
And, if all you gotta do is stopthe machine and put gas in it
and rotate an operator for lunchor whatever and keep it going,
Wow! What a beautiful thing thatis.
I've noticed over the years thatevery time you stop an aerifier
(24:41):
to change tide, you kind of openup Pandora's Box.
Mmmm you could strip and bowl oryou have all kinds of stuff.
And you're usually not doing itin the most pleasant places.
You're doing it on a car path orsomewhere.
And your operator, you don'ttrust them to do it, so they're
down in the woods hunting golfballs.
You get done, you stand, yougotta call them back up.
I mean, it's just Pandora's box.
I knew most superintendents weredealing with stuff exactly like
(25:03):
that, so.
And your debt stays consistent.
Debt stays consistent, whichaffects your absorption, your
uptake, it affects everything.
And, but I had to give sometimes to them.
They didn't believe it.
So I started giving tithes away.
Again, just like I had donepreviously, here, try these.
And when they did, they just, ittook off.
(25:24):
And then, I mean, we startedselling tithes and we had to
modify our, we had to have aninventory, we had to do a lot of
different things.
Trent Manning (25:33):
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Let's get back to the episode.
Jim Merritt (26:05):
Yeah, how did you learn metallurgy?
Coming up with that.
In 1994, I bought a machinisthandbook.
About that thick.
And so I read the title.
Most of what, I couldn't beginto tell you what it said, but it
didn't matter.
I was buying steel tubing andsolid rod at mill minimums
(26:31):
already, and I knew that.
But I was buying them and goingthrough a metal manager,
Metrolina Steel out ofCharlotte.
And, of course, they were, theyhad their profit margin in
there.
I recognized that.
So I started trying to callSteel Meals and buying directly
from them.
And I noticed when the tubingwould come in, it said Plymouth
(26:54):
Tube, Streeter, Illinois.
I got their number, I startedcalling up there and asking them
to give me an open account.
They wouldn't do it.
But I got, I went up the foodchain to their CFO, and he
happened to love golf.
So I called him and pesteredhim.
And we'd talk.
Five minutes about business andthen thirty minutes about golf.
(27:18):
Eventually, and I cannotremember the man's name now, he
said, Jim, look, we got anexcellent discount program.
It's two percent in ten days.
You take the discount, thisfirst order, and then after that
you've got an open account forthirty days.
I said, yes, sir.
And you better believe I didthat.
And it was like a domino effect.
Plymouth Tubes is well known.
(27:40):
So once I got an open accountwith Plymouth Tube, I was able
to springboard off of that andget open accounts with other
steel mills.
Okay.
And so I, so, when you do that,you're in an arena there where
you have access tometallurgists.
Ah yeah.
Yeah, they're the best that'sout there.
And so I'm out there picking atthat, trying to figure out
(28:02):
everything I can.
And so you have people come byand visit you.
Yeah.
And that's how I learned a lotabout steels and metallurgy from
those men and women.
And I learned a tremendousamount from them.
And I sucked it up as best Icould.
We were having to do heattreating as well, so you learn
about that to some degree too.
(28:23):
It's just a right angle learningcurve.
You know?
As you grow up.
I mean, you never quit learning.
No.
Not ever.
Life stays good.
Like the old saying goes,sometimes it's not what you
know, it's who you know.
Because who you know might knowwhat you need to know.
You're exactly right.
You are exactly right.
(28:46):
Who do you listen to?
One of the most important thingsyou'll ever learn.
Who do you listen to?
And this is something that, overa period of time, you kind of
check it.
Obviously, you want to listen tothose that make good decisions
and are right.
Yeah.
You see?
Yep.
And you figure out who's rightand who's not.
Pay attention.
You can't have your pridegetting away.
(29:07):
You can't have your ego gettingaway.
You gotta, you have to decidebased on right and wrong.
Yeah.
Easier said than done sometimes.
For human beings it is.
Yes.
Explain how you started makingbed knives.
So you're making all these tinesand you say, okay, let's make
bed knives.
(29:27):
Sort of.
Yeah.
Again, having been exposed tothe industry, I knew where the
volumes would be.
I knew what items would be werelarge movers.
And I knew also where I feltlike there was vast opportunity
for improvement.
I just, I don't like to makeanother me too.
Yeah.
I like to make things better.
(29:49):
That's what it's all about.
As a superintendent, Ievaluated, um, the value of a
part, not just the cost.
It was how, what did that partdo for me?
Yeah.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
The cost would, if I felt likeit was a really good value, I
(30:10):
could justify the cost.
So, bed knives.
My brother was a naval aviatorduring Vietnam and he told me
one time the wing spars of ourhigh performance jet fighters
are coined.
What's coining?
Okay I know what a quarter is.
That's coining.
No, that's not coining.
(30:31):
So I started researchingcoining.
Noodling around and calling andjust asking questions so I could
learn.
And I realized that When youcoin a piece of steel, you
change it on a molecular level,and you enhance certain parts of
that material.
It's a squishing of metal.
(30:52):
Huh.
And when it's engineered, thedie is engineered correctly, it
will, the metal almost becomesfluid.
And it moves the metal into thebusiness end of whatever part it
is you're making, a true coiningdie does.
So, in this case, I wanted mygreens mowers, I wanted them
coined, and the relief behindthe strike point is what I
(31:18):
wanted to give coined, and Iwanted that material to flow up
into the strike point, and makethat strike point just as
durable as possible.
I wanted it to hold an edge.
I know they have to work inharsh environments, and grit,
and tin top dressing, and allthat stuff.
So, I started trying to findsomeone that could, Manufacture
a coining die for me to make abed knife.
(31:40):
It, easier said than done.
And we went through three orfour different companies before
I found somebody that couldreally knew how to make a
coining die.
They could hold it true, youknow, across that 22 inches
basically at that time.
You got, you get 3, you gottahold it true.
(32:02):
So, you have your Heat treatingis also involved in that because
when you, coining buildsstresses in the metal and it
likes to move.
Heat really makes metal move.
So there are certain things thathad to be done to try to
overcome those hurdles.
And we had a lot of years wherewe had failures and stuff.
(32:23):
One of the things that I want mycompany to do always, as long as
I draw a breath in part of thiscompany, it'll do it.
Listen to the customer.
Listen to the people.
Listen to the mechanics.
Listen to the superintendents.
They will tell you what theywant and what their needs are.
And react to that.
(32:44):
Don't just let it be like mewalking into this Toro booth
that day.
Listen to it.
Learn and react to that.
So we did.
And through, and, Men like you,who helped us refine our bed
nights to where we have anexcellent product now.
And so, we expanded the line andas a business owner, um, it's
(33:06):
refreshing to, to hear thatphilosophy.
Because I do think a lot ofbusinesses, and especially the
bigger they get, the lessthey're concerned about the end
user.
And, again, That's what it's allabout.
That's where your whole businessis.
(33:27):
I was an end user.
And I knew how difficult it was.
I can, I remember what I wentthrough.
And didn't have to be.
Right.
Yeah.
Tell me about Butch Trogdon.
Trogdon.
Trog, Trogdon?
Trogdon.
Yeah, now that's a story initself.
(33:48):
Butch was the Sr.
engine mechanic for the RichardPetty race team for 25 years.
And Richard Petty retired,turned the team over to his son
Kyle.
And Butch didn't get along withKyle very well.
So he left.
Now, when you're working inthat, you know, NASCAR, there's
(34:15):
no room for mistakes.
It's a white glove, dust freeenvironment they're working
there.
I mean, it's.
So he takes his paradigm, and hegoes to Star Mount Forest
Country Club in Greensboro.
Nice club.
And they had deer walkinggreensmores.
And they had L 95 or L 93 ontheir greens.
(34:36):
I can't remember what it was.
Anyway, it was a bent grass.
And, um, So Butch comes there,and his paradigm was if it's a
GM motor, he's not puttinganything back on that motor but
a GM part.
Okay, yeah.
He was.
So, here we are, trying to gethim to try our bed nights.
We knew they were good.
He wouldn't do it.
He wouldn't have any part of it.
(34:57):
Even his superintendent, wholoved our times, put some
pressure on him to do it, but,you know, not an overwhelming
amount.
So, one day, on a Fridayafternoon, I had flown up to
Chicago, helping train a dealerup there we'd put on.
And I'd fly back, and I had alayover, and I was waiting
Friday afternoon for my plane.
My phone rings.
(35:18):
He said, Jim?
I said, yeah.
He said, this is Butch Trogdonat Thar Mountain.
I said, hey Butch, how youdoing?
He said I doing pretty well.
Can I, you got time?
I said sure.
And he said I finally tried yourbed knives.
And he said I expected them tobe good.
I'd heard, that's why I waswilling to try them.
He said, but, what I'm seeingblows me away and I can't
(35:40):
explain it.
He said, what are you doingMonday morning?
Can you come over here?
I said, okay.
He said we top dressed.
This past Monday we've beencutting grit all week.
And I've had to face off the bedknives every day get them cut
again to go back out.
He said, I got nine WalkingGreens mowers.
(36:02):
Seven of them got the originaldeer bed knives on them.
Two of them I put your bedknives on.
I have not had to touch yourbedknife yet.
He said, but that's not what'sblowing me away.
He said, come on over here andI'll show you.
I said, okay, I'll be there.
So I go over, Monday morning,see Butch.
And he had a magnifying glass.
(36:23):
He said, you can get down inthere and you can look.
And he changed out the bedknives on all the deer stuff,
except for one.
And he kept one of my Mowingunits that he didn't change the
bed knife on.
He said, now look at the onethat the deer were the deer bed
(36:43):
knives on it.
I looked down there with mymagnifying glass.
You could see these gritstriations.
Through not only the bed knife,but also through the real blade.
He said, now look at yours.
And I looked down through thereand there were very much less
grit striations.
Same thing.
on the reel blade.
(37:04):
And he said, Jim, your bed knifeis making my reels last longer.
And that is huge to me.
I can't explain it.
But that's what's happening.
I said, okay, that's good.
That is huge to me.
I said, very good.
You're going to use our bedknives.
So, so that's, so I went away.
He starts using our bed knife.
He wrote a testimonial for us.
(37:26):
That was in May of that year.
And in November every year wehave a show at Myrtle Beach, in
the Carolinas, it's a prettygood sized show, and it draws
from Tennessee, Georgia, andVirginia even.
And so we had a booth, and wehad it set up, and Butch had
written me a testimonial,basically telling this whole
(37:49):
story, my brother Bob.
So, I'm sitting in working ourbooth, and Fred Hartenstein
walks up.
Now he's the head mechanic atAugusta National.
He walks up, and he was alreadyusing our tines, and he walks up
and starts talking to me.
So I have this testimonial in myhand, and I tell Fred about
what's going on, and I hand himthe testimonial, and he's
(38:11):
reading it.
And I turn around and look overmy shoulder, and there's Butch
Strogdon standing there.
I said, Butch! Oh, hey! Butch,this is Fred.
Fred, this is Butch.
And I just backed out and theystarted talking.
And next thing I know, Gus andNashville's buying our bed
knives.
(38:31):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So when you see the bastardsthis year, you'll know they
mowed them with our bed knives.
Oh yeah.
That's, I mean, that's how ithappened.
I mean, I couldn't, I mean, who,only the Heavenly Father can do
stuff like that.
Yeah, that's all.
That's all I just backed up andthey started talking to, I don't
know, they talked a pretty goodwhile.
(38:52):
That's cool.
Do you know if Butch, is hestill working?
No.
He retired.
He's retired.
Yeah.
How about developing theInfinity Tine.
Again, I don't like a me too, soI looked at by that time we
developed the Infinity Tine, I'dlearned more and more about heat
treating.
(39:12):
and metallurgies that connect tothat.
I mean, it's not just heattreating by itself.
It's the steels and thefoundations that you give to
work.
So we worked out a very goodproduct there.
Cause you can't just take mildsteel and heat treat it and make
it hard, right?
You gotta have, you gotta havemetallurgy before you gotta have
(39:33):
a certain amount of carbon.
You gotta have a certain, andthe alloys can play a part in
all that too.
And, you know, it's a.
It's a learning curve.
Yeah, how long did it take tofigure that process out?
Not that long, um, because I hada, by that time I had some
accumulated knowledge.
And I was able to come out withthat part from start to finish
(39:57):
probably a year at the most.
Okay.
Why did you decide to paint themblue?
Make them stand out.
Make them different.
Yeah, to make them different.
Make them different.
Everybody see that's a J.
R.
M.
Infinity Tine.
And I will tell you, my staffgave me a really hard time about
that blue.
(40:19):
I mean really hard time.
And, didn't want to do green.
You didn't want to do red ororange.
I wanted it to be unique anddifferent.
Yeah.
Truthfully, I was looking for acolor and I was in Lowe's.
And I turned around and I wentdown an aisle and there was all
these paint cans.
Right there.
And that one cap just caught myattention.
(40:39):
I grabbed it and it's going tobe our infinity.
Yep.
That's funny.
Yeah.
It's going to be our infinitytime.
It's funny how things like thathappen.
Again, why did I walk down thataisle?
You know, I wasn't even there tobuy paint.
I wouldn't even go there to findthe paint.
You know, I went there forsomething else.
Yeah.
The Heavenly Father.
(41:00):
There he was.
I came back and I startedpainting in that color.
And it just carried on over toour reels.
And now, anybody that sees bluereels is going to know that's J.
R.
M.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So where did the reels comefrom?
You just said, I'm making badknifes.
We might as well make reels.
Yeah.
I pretty much we decided weneeded to start making reels and
(41:22):
we had a pretty significantlearning curve there.
It took us longer than I'dhoped.
I think we're on revision 17now, so, but we've got a great
reel now and we're very excitedabout that.
It took us a couple of, two orthree years, really, to get it
down.
(41:43):
Why does why is quality soimportant here at JRM?
Because that's what matters.
It mattered to me, anyway.
I consider myself normal.
Now, she might not.
But I consider myself normal.
And So I figure everybody oughtto think like me.
And, You know, superintendentsare immensely practical people.
(42:05):
They live in a world where theycan't control life and death.
You know, grass will die.
And sometimes you don't evenknow why.
I was at Salisbury Country Clubwhen Root Rock Pythium first hit
Charlotte Country Club.
And I had to go back.
I went down there and looked atit and it was, boy, it was so
sad.
And it just, it had justevolved.
(42:28):
So we can't control stuff likethat.
And so superintendents are, Ithink, very practical people and
very humbled many times by thenature of what they're in.
So, I mean, I felt like if Ipresided, provided them a part
(42:49):
that was distinctively superior,they'd buy it.
And it would make their worldmore beautiful.
Make it easier on them.
Make their life easier.
Keep the mechanics off his handsand knees.
You know?
Yeah.
I've been on my hands and kneesplenty of times.
I don't enjoy it.
When you can keep a guy off hishands and knees as much as
(43:10):
possible, you've made a friend.
Yep.
No, you definitely have.
Do you have any new products?
Here?
And projects?
Anything you want to talk about?
Or discuss?
I can, I guess.
I don't see any reason why Ican't.
You are the owner, right?
So, you can talk about whateveryou want to.
Yeah I can do that.
Um, all through the years therehave been groomers and brushes
(43:36):
that have been on mowing unitsto try to make the grass stand
up and get a better cut and toget a better roll.
And golf course superintendents,including myself, were the great
links to Get a better stempreading.
Come behind and roll the greens.
Some of them just, you know,these rollers are awesome.
(43:57):
We realized that a big part ofthe brush, which you couldn't
utilize those brushes, they wereturning too fast, way too fast.
So if you put them down in theturf at all, they'll burn.
And in fact, if you put themdown much, if you have an
undulated green, it'll almostsuck the mowing unit down to
where it'll scalp.
(44:18):
I mean, it really, so thosebrushes were, and groomers too,
they really were, you couldn'tget them down in the canopy.
You just couldn't, you couldn'tget them, they were just, they
really didn't do what wasintended.
We have designed a brush, it'spatent pending now, that goes in
(44:39):
the same place as all thebrushes did, in behind the front
roller, front of the reel, butit's got it's own independent
motor, and it turns at 250 RPMs,instead of 3, 000.
Yeah.
So, you can literally put thatbrush.
down into the canopy of thegrass and pull that canopy up,
(45:01):
excavate the sloughed off leavesand open that canopy up to the
air and the sunshine and gasexchange and all the beautiful
things that makes the grasshappy.
Yep.
So you're actually doingsomething that's going to be
beneficial to the turf and atthe same time you get a much
better stimp reading.
So we call it a stimp brush.
Ah, okay.
(45:21):
Awesome.
That's so good.
That's exciting.
And you can mow every day withthis brush.
Getting down in the canopy.
And what we have seen, if youuse it every day, the grass will
just get healthier andhealthier.
How far below the rollers areyou setting that?
Or is it like, because it goeskind of into the canopy
(45:44):
sometimes?
It goes into the canopy.
It'll literally open up thecanopy.
Yeah, that's something else.
And I would think, too, openingthat canopy up when you did top
dress, it'd be easier to workthe top dress in and all those
things, too.
I believe, in time, it willtotally change golf course
(46:06):
maintenance.
Because I think it'll affect allyour cultivation practices.
It'll affect your fertilizationpractices.
The grass is healthier.
It'll certainly affect yourpesticide practices.
Yep.
So in time, we're gonna see howthis does but Anytime you make
the grass healthier and morerobust You've done something And
(46:30):
I can't think of anything elsethat was ever done to get a
better stem breeding That wasn'tdetrimental, really, somewhat to
the grass.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So, that's one of the reasonsI'm very excited about this.
Yeah, most all the practices wedo to make a green fast is not
good for the grass.
Cutting it lower, rolling it,whatever.
(46:52):
Here you can raise the cutknife.
Very likely you can raise thecut knife.
Oh yeah.
That makes sense.
We'll see.
Trent Manning (46:57):
Where do you see JRM going in the future?
Jim Merritt (47:00):
I really, that's a tough question.
I mean, we're going to continueto try to do the best that we
can to help this beautiful,incredible industry, which we
service.
Come out with new parts and tryto innovate things along the
way.
Listening always to the enduser, to the mechanics.
(47:21):
A maintenance technician cancall in here and ask to speak to
an engineer and he will get oneon the phone.
And that is, again, one of thethings that I think is very
important.
Trent Manning (47:31):
And that engineer isn't going to tell him it can't
be done.
See you later.
Right?
He better not.
Yeah.
He won't be working here long.
Right.
He needs to listen to what therequest is.
Yeah.
And then, because that guy hadno clue.
First of all, I don't think theguy was an engineer.
Yeah, who knows.
(47:52):
He called some other sales repover there.
Some other sales guy over there.
Yeah.
Looking back at it, I don'tthink Billy Bob knew anything
about steel.
Yeah, probably not.
But, I mean, you know, at thetime, I'm just a kid.
I'm going, Oh, okay.
I walked away thinking itcouldn't be done.
No way.
(48:13):
Knowing that it could be done.
And now here we are.
So that's that's gotta make youfeel really good.
How rewarding has it beenwatching JRM's?
Been humbling.
Progress.
Very humbling.
To have my peers see value in myproducts and what I do is
(48:36):
probably one of the mosthumbling things I can ever
experience.
It's a beautiful thing.
I've had, I have people say tome, Um, Look at what a great job
you've done.
Huh.
And I look at them and I say,Look at what a great job God has
done.
Ah yeah.
I mean, that's exactly how I seeit.
(48:58):
Yeah.
The Lord works through people.
Yep.
And I'm very humbled.
that we've been able to dosomething that I think has
genuinely affected thisindustry.
Like I say, we came out with ourdelineum tine in 1998.
Most people may not realize, butit was in, it was 2005 when
Toroio came out with her titantine.
(49:20):
Oh yeah.
You see?
And that was a definite responseto our little delineum tine.
And I didn't patent the littledelineum tine.
Should have.
But it didn't know to in thosedays.
So, it's okay.
Yeah, it's all right.
Yeah, competition's good.
And so, so, we made Toro do athing.
(49:42):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And then Deere followed throughtoo, I'm sure.
So that's humbling.
Very humbling to me.
Yeah, now it's definitely been apositive impact on the industry.
Cause, I mean, if you hadn't ofcome up with that.
You know, who knows, would ithave stayed like that forever?
(50:04):
God created competition.
We know that.
You get up in the morning, lookout your window, you watch the
robins compete with one anotherfor a worm.
God created competition for areason.
And I Competition, if it'shonorable and fair.
is great when you've got peoplerunning around.
Sniping behind you, that'sdifferent, but people are
(50:25):
people.
So competition is a good thingand it has shown to be a very
good thing in this industry too.
Yeah, it has been really good.
I can't thank you enough forsitting down here and talking
with me.
More than happy.
This has been enjoyable forsure.
Hopefully our fans and audienceover here has enjoyed it as
(50:46):
well.
Any other things from the peanutgallery?
You know, you get a It's justlike with Redexum.
We got a contract with Redexum.
Next thing I know, we got acontract with Liedemann.
Next thing you know, we got acontract with Firefly.
You know the name of it?
Yeah.
Firefly.
Yeah.
And, you know, I mean, it justsnowballs.
(51:08):
But it all has to do withquality.
It has to do with the quality ofa product.
So, I, you know, I want thebest.
I don't build in plannedobsolescence, ever.
I have these people saying it'lllast forever, Jim.
What are you going to do?
I mean, you know, they'reprobably going to buy one and
never buy another one.
I said, that's fine.
If everybody buys one, I'll behappy.
This one gives me a hard timesometimes.
(51:30):
But a lot of companies do that,right?
The planned obsolescence.
They do it digitally.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure they do.
And, I never appreciated that.
Yeah.
It's stupid to me.
Yep, I agree.
I agree with that.
Thank you.
(51:52):
thank you so much for listeningto the Reel turf techs podcast.
I hope you learned somethingtoday.
Don't forget to subscribe.
If you have any topics you'dlike to discuss, or you'd like
to be a guest, find us onTwitter at Reel turf techs.
Welcome to the reel turf techs podcast for the
technician that wants to getreel follow along.
As we talk to industryprofessionals and address hot
topics that we all face alongthe way we'll learn tips and
tricks.
I'm your host, Trent.
Manning let's have some Welcometo The Reel Turf Techs Podcast,
(00:26):
episode one 40.
Today we're talking to JimMerrit, founder and CEO of JRM,
incorporated.
Jim started working at a golfcourse as a teenager, and that
led to its successful career asa superintendent at several
prominent golf courses in NorthCarolina.
Frustrated with the quality ofverification times in the early
(00:47):
1990s.
Jim started making his own tinesthat could last and pull cores
longer.
Jim made tides for his deep tideverification business before
landing a contract with RedexHolland.
This contract helped Jimofficially incorporate JRM and
the rest is history.
(01:07):
Let's hear a little bit of thathistory today.
Let's talk to Jim.
And just a friendly reminder.
Jim's two favorite heroes areJesus and Tarzan.
Tell me a little bit of yourbackground and how you got
started in the turf industry.
Jim Merritt (01:23):
In 1967, I was 16.
And my dad, who was born in1919, was 11 years old when the
Great Depression hit.
So he saw a lot.
And it formed the person that hewas.
So, he was a conservative, nononsense kind of guy.
Fought in World War II.
And He told me.
(01:44):
He said, son, get a job.
I mean manual labor.
You're not laying around thehouse this summer.
And so, um, I went to work forReynolds Park Golf Course, which
was owned by the city of WinstonSalem.
They own two golf courses.
And I went to work on themaintenance department.
And that's where I got started.
(02:04):
And of course, I was just a kid.
And it was a very enlighteningexperience.
I worked there probably eightsummers in a row.
All through college, all throughhigh school, then post-graduate,
when I went on and got my turfdegree, I was still working
there during the summers.
The superintendent and theforeman were the same.
Stayed there the whole time.
(02:25):
They knew me from one season tothe next.
So I got to know those men verywell.
And I got to work with, um, menthat were.
in their 40s and 50s.
Now, here I am a kid,
Trent Manning (02:38):
so
Jim Merritt (02:38):
I saw a lot, learned a lot from those men.
It was a different world fromwhat I had grown up in, and so
it was a real eye opener for me.
but I I went to college, got mycollege degree at Campbell, and
when I came out thesuperintendent there at where I
(02:59):
had been working at ReynoldsPark, Convinced me to go back
and get a concentration in turfgrass science.
Trent Manning (03:06):
Okay.
Jim Merritt (03:07):
I looked at NC State and quite frankly, I was
Less impressed than I was withCatawba Valley Technical
Institute.
I went up there and I met with aHarry Dubose who was a professor
up there and Harry was just oneof those individuals that was
Capable of of reallycommunicating effectively.
Brilliant guy.
(03:28):
And, um, so I chose to go there.
And they had a real focus onturf grass.
And I was there and did well, Iguess.
Harry became, I didn't know thatHarry was as close to my age as
he was, but he was, he's five orsix years older is all.
Harry and Gail became goodfriends.
(03:50):
They're still good friends.
And He, when I he helped me getthe job at Charlotte Country
Club.
So, as soon as I graduated, Istepped right in to the
assistant superintendentposition at Charlotte Country
Club.
So, that was 77 and I stayedthere for 5 years through 1982.
Why did
Trent Manning (04:08):
you started working at a golf course at a
really young age, why did youwant to continue to pursue that?
You just really enjoyed workingoutside or
Jim Merritt (04:16):
there's a
Trent Manning (04:17):
lot that goes into that.
Jim Merritt (04:18):
Yeah.
Okay.
My dad was an accountant, hisdad was an accountant.
I did not want to be anaccountant.
Trent Manning (04:25):
Uhhuh.
Jim Merritt (04:26):
And so, um, I love outdoors.
I love nature.
and so I enjoyed going to workand listening to the birds and
the see the squirrels and therabbits and run around and play.
And I'll never forget I wastrying to get my nephew.
To do the same thing, to get onthat path and go work during the
summers, during the, and he's mybrother's kid.
(04:47):
I said, but Joe, you'll get tosee the rabbits and the birds
and the squirrels.
He looked at me and he says,Jim, I don't give a, about
rabbits, squirrels, and birds.
He went to become a pizzadelivery boy.
Which my dad would have nevertolerated for me.
They didn't have those things in67.
But, um, Dad wanted me to workhard.
He wanted me to see what it waslike.
(05:08):
To know that I didn't wanna bedigging mud in ditches at 50 and
it, so I went on and became agolf course superintendent
later.
And I, like I said, I was atCharlotte Country Club five
years, then I took the headgrounds position at Salisbury
Country Club and I was therefive years.
And when I went to Salisbury itwas a little different because
(05:32):
they had rubic code tenniscourts.
And I was over everythingoutside, including the pool.
So I had to learn about poolsand I had to learn about
maintaining tennis courts andvarious other things and
watering them and, but it, butalso you had to learn the
various committees.
You have a tennis committee, yougot a pool committee.
And those people, their paradigmis pool and so you have to
(05:55):
navigate those personalities.
If you can follow what I'msaying.
And the ladies, you havehoneybees at the pool around
drinks.
They don't like that.
I mean, it's just learning tonavigate personalities, which
I've never been the best at.
(06:16):
But, um, I went on fromSalisbury Country Club to Twan
Gotham Country Club, where I wasgolf director and general
manager.
And As general manager, that wasa whole new look at the world.
I had to, I was responsible forall the club budgets, and I had
to get those assembled from thedepartments, and tidy that up, I
had to attend every boardmeeting, and it was, again, it
(06:40):
was an eye opener as well.
Edenton is a very, it's up onthe Alvin Wallace Sound, it's a
very unique community.
You had a board of directors,which I answered to the
president, ultimately to theboard.
Some of them were, um, locals.
The granddaddies had grown upthere.
(07:01):
Others, because Edenton's sopretty and it's right on the
Albemarle Sound.
And it's three miles wide wherethe country club is.
It's beautiful.
And it's kind of freshwater,mostly.
Some of them get a littlebrackish.
So you have leaders in theirfield from around the country
would retire there, and theydid, and they'd get on the board
of directors.
(07:22):
So I had some really amazingindividuals that I worked for.
And became friends with, a guyby the name of John Penn.
He went through the CornellHotel School.
Trent Manning (07:34):
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Jim Merritt (07:35):
Wow.
And then when he got out, he wasgeneral manager.
And he was general manager atOakmont Country Club.
Three years of which they hadthe U.
S.
Open there.
Oh, wow.
Trent Manning (07:44):
Yeah.
Jim Merritt (07:45):
He was Orford Caesar's palace.
He turned it down because hedidn't want to raise his family
there and became the, uh,general manager of the New York,
was it, New York Athletic Club,I think it was.
Okay.
It was another big deal club.
Huh.
So, and so he was on my board.
He was the number two tennisplayer when he was at Cornell.
(08:05):
So he loved tennis.
I liked tennis.
John and I got to be goodfriends.
Trent Manning (08:08):
So he
Jim Merritt (08:09):
and Barbara and I became good.
His wife, Barbara, we becamegood friends.
And, so that's kind of how itled to a foundation of over many
years watching things takeplace.
And so that's how I got into it.
And that's where I, you know.
Trent Manning (08:29):
Where I
Jim Merritt (08:30):
went.
Trent Manning (08:30):
All right.
How did you start making yourown tines?
What, and what inspired that?
Jim Merritt (08:36):
I I wanted to make a little extra money.
So I bought a Verti Drain, whichwas made by Redexum.
They're out of Holland.
And I bought a tractor,Mitsubishi 45 horsepower
tractor.
I thought, we'll go do this.
Now, this was in 19, Iincorporated in August of 1992.
(08:57):
Okay.
Okay.
And I bought my Verde Reign andmy tractor from the Redexum
distributor out of Charlotte,which at that time was E.
J.
Smith Group, or E.
J.
Smith Son.
When I was at Charlotte CountryClub, I got to know those men at
E.
J.
Smith.
Because I was running over thereall the time picking up parts
for Charlotte Country Club.
(09:17):
It was just across town.
Those men in 77 grew intopositions of authority and E.
J.
Smithson's son.
And they became my friends and Istayed friends with them.
So, when I started, I bought myvertigrain from them.
I started doing this thing andthe tines weren't performing
(09:40):
very well.
Most of my customers were alsomy friends.
Because I had been an assistantwhen they were assistants.
Yep.
So I grew up with those men aswell.
And so now I'm going on to afriend's golf course and he's
going to do soil exchange andthe tines won't pull a cord but
like two greens.
And then it becomes clogged upand then you're not doing soil
(10:02):
exchange.
That was not only anembarrassment to me, I knew what
my friends wanted.
So I decided that I needed to dosomething about this.
So I went to a local machineshop in Statesville and I asked
the guy if he could make, Ishowed him one of the tines, I
said, can you make this?
He goes, huh.
I said, good.
And so he started making them.
I went back to him, it probablywasn't three times, and had him
(10:24):
dimensionally change thoseparts.
And next thing you know, I gottines that worked.
I mean, worked.
Full life of the tine.
And I recognized that was apretty good thing.
And I knew there were othercontractors out there that had
been in business for much longerthan I had.
Redexen introduced the Verdedrain in 1985 to the U.
(10:50):
S.
Okay.
It had been innovated in Europespecifically to do soccer
fields.
But now they introduced it in1985 and they actually had a
field day in 1985.
Now I met Salisbury Country Clubin 1985.
They had a field day atCharlotte Country Club on number
five green.
They had all the superintendentscome around and whatnot.
(11:10):
And my boss, my former boss,Johnny Burns, called me and
said, Jim, Remember how you usedto sit in the office on winter
days and just dream of going sixinches deep on these drains?
I said, yeah, I do.
He said this machine will goten, eleven inches deep.
You need to see this.
So I went down for the fieldday.
Ruud Fransissen, the president,or general manager of Redection,
(11:32):
was there.
And their senior engineer,Marina Sriniki.
And I met them both.
Clueless that I'd ever have anyother contact with them.
I did stay later.
Everybody else kind of left.
But I was the only formerassistant, so I stayed and chit
chatted.
Then I went on about mybusiness.
So now we are in 1993.
(11:53):
And I've got a time that'sworking pretty well.
And I started calling othercontractors that had gotten into
the contracting business yearsbefore that I knew.
And you can kind of domino it,you know, and find out from
another.
And so I sent them some time andsaid, here, try these.
They got back with me.
I figured everybody's having touse the same time.
Trent Manning (12:13):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because as I back then it wasjust one distributor, right?
Jim Merritt (12:17):
And so, um, they got back with me and said, man,
these things work great.
How much you want for them?
I said I don't know.
Okay, so I made three or fourdollars a time, not much.
Trent Manning (12:28):
But
Jim Merritt (12:28):
I started going around and finding out about
others.
I even found out about a guynamed Bob Doty in Ohio and
started, he's a contractor upthere, started selling tithes to
him.
And this is where it reallyturned spiritual for me.
So please allow me to do that.
Oh, of course.
One morning, late March, I wokeup on a Monday morning.
(12:49):
I just woke up and knew I neededto Now, they had cell phones in
those days, but they didn't callEurope, and so I didn't know how
to call Europe.
So I thought, okay, so I calledback down to my buddy at E.
J.
Smith's group that I bought myVerti ring from and said, Troy
I'm making tithes.
He said, yeah, Jim, I know youare.
We aren't selling as many now.
I said, sorry about that.
(13:10):
And he said I said, you thinkRex would be interested in my
tithes?
He said, I don't know.
And I said how do you callHolland?
He said, you don't have to.
The North American importer isin Wilkes Barre, PA.
It's an 800 number.
Here it is.
Charlie Otto.
Oh, okay.
I hung up the phone, calledCharlie up there to Wilkes
(13:32):
Barre, PA and got Charlie Ottoon the phone.
And, of course, I introducedmyself and explained why I was
calling.
I talked to Charlie for, I don'tknow, seven or eight days.
minutes.
Charlie stops me and he says,Jim, what made you call me this
morning?
I didn't, I was not expectingthat question, obviously.
I said Charlie, I honestly, Ijust got up this morning and
(13:54):
knew I needed to call Redexum.
And it was dead silence.
Seemed like forever, probablyonly 10 seconds, but it seemed
like it was forever.
And he comes back and he says,no one knows this yet.
But Redexum just lost theirsupplier for tines.
And I said back to him, I saidCharlie, I know who does know
(14:15):
it.
And he said, yes, he does.
The next morning at 7 a.
m., I'm woken up by a rudefriend, Sisson, whom I had met
in 1985 at Charlotte CountryClub, calling from Holland to
talk to me about tines.
How cool is that?
I didn't expect it.
(14:35):
Yeah.
But that's the Heavenly Fatherat work.
And nobody understands the realpower there.
I don't think.
So, we talked and he said, Doyou have a fax?
I said, yes.
So he said, I'm gonna, MarinusRenicki, is going to um, fax you
over the list of times that weneed for testing.
(14:56):
Who's gonna fax over?
Marina's, who was their headengineer.
Okay.
Redickson's head engineer, andwhom I also had met in 1985.
And I'm sort of putting thepieces of the puzzle together as
this is unfolding quickly.
And they said to use our FedExnumber and just FedEx the stuff
to us, which I did.
I went to the machine shop andsaid, He said, okay.
(15:17):
Made them.
to my spec, and then I shippedthem over there to them.
Probably a week at the most.
They called, Rude called meback.
Said, Jim, your ties work great.
How much you want for them?
Oh, okay.
I said I'll have to work you upa matrix for them at.
Trent Manning (15:37):
I
Jim Merritt (15:38):
said, I'll get it worked up and I'll get it to
you.
Not having a clue what I wasgoing to do here.
Okay.
So I called back down to mybuddy, DJ Smith's group.
I said, Troy, can you get intothe computer and see what you're
buying these tines for fromRodexum?
(15:59):
He said, sure.
Because he was wholesaling them,right?
So that's what he did.
We went down it part number bypart number.
And I just backed it down, Ithink, 35%.
I said, I took what they werepaying and I backed it down 35%.
Rodexum probably wouldn't makethat.
And I said, that's the price I'mgonna put on it.
I went down.
It took us a good hour and ahalf to go down through all
(16:19):
those parts and pull it up andIt was instrumental though.
So I took those prices, knowingthere's no way the machine shop
was gonna make them for that.
And I sent it over to Redexumand within a day's time they
accepted my pricing.
Okay?
Yeah.
So now, then we put a contracttogether, an agreement together.
(16:40):
First a letter of intent, andthen an agreement together.
Which basically guaranteed mehalf a million dollars for five
years.
Wow.
How cool.
That was cool.
Except that's just a piece ofpaper.
Okay, I had no clue how to makeanything.
I grew grass.
Yep.
I didn't have a building.
I didn't have any equipment.
I had nothing but a nice pieceof paper.
(17:02):
So I said, I'll go to the banks.
I'll show them this piece ofpaper.
So I did.
I went to the bank.
And I explained what I wanted todo and they asked me difficult
questions like what have youbeen doing for the last X number
of years?
I said I've been asuperintendent.
I've been growing grass.
What do you know aboutmanufacturing?
I don't know anything.
Mr.
Merritt, it's wonderful.
(17:25):
You've got a nice contract, buthe's in Europe.
What if he doesn't pay you?
Oh, they're nice people.
They'll pay us right down theroad to a bank.
Just going down the road toanother bank.
So I went to many banks.
And finally found a bank thatwould take a chance on me.
Now I had some cash.
And I'm still looking now forsomeone to make these things at
(17:45):
a price that would work.
And I'd heard of a machine shopin Lexington.
I was living in Winston Salem.
So I'm driving down Highway 150.
And it's a 55 mile an hour zone,and I was probably doing 65.
And I come by.
A sign said Dalton's MetalsWorks.
And I catch it out of the cornerof my eye and I did a bat turn
(18:06):
right into the driveway.
And I come in here.
And it was that originalbuilding, 60 by 80, on an acre
and a half.
And I walk in the building andit was pretty much empty.
There was one guy standing inthe back by one piece of
machinery.
I walked back there to him and Isaid, introduced myself.
He introduced himself and hesaid, I'm Jack Dalton.
And I said, hey.
(18:27):
I said, what's going on here?
I'm selling out.
Oh, okay.
Good.
You're selling all yourequipment.
That's good.
What are you going to do withthe building?
We'll sell it, I guess.
I said, have you ever heard of apurchased money mortgage?
He said, no.
I said it's underfinancing.
Would you be interested insomething like that?
Trent Manning (18:44):
No.
Jim Merritt (18:44):
Yeah, maybe.
I put a deal together with himin a matter of days.
Went through the attorneys andnow I have a building.
So, at that point, I put an adin the paper for a machinist, a
guy by the name of Jim Kent, whohad, from up north, he had been
a machinist on a nuclear sub forlike eight years.
(19:08):
And he had decided he didn'tlike it north, he didn't want to
move down here.
So he was here looking for ajob.
And so he came in and he said,Jim, let's go shopping.
Bought some equipment, hiredsome operators.
He made my fixturing, and Istarted making tines.
Just like that.
Just like that.
Trent Manning (19:27):
And you were you still a golf course
superintendent?
Jim Merritt (19:30):
No, I quit that in the winter of 93.
When I realized I had goodtines, I felt like I needed to
devote myself to JRM.
And many people have said thatwas a bold move to me.
It was just It wasn't I don'tknow how to describe it.
(19:51):
It was this is what I need todo.
Yeah, I can't I can't describeit But other than that, but you
know, that's what how I got intomaking times noted up jrm Um, as
a kid, 17, 16, 18, I'm watching.
We were air fighting at ReynoldsPark.
(20:14):
There were two golf courses thatwere owned by the city, Reynolds
Park and Winston Lake.
And they'd shuffle me back andforth.
So I was watching.
And over the years, I noticedthat Toro didn't even have a
greens air fire.
They didn't have one then.
Okay, but they came out with onein, I don't remember, late 70s,
early, early 80s, but, um, theywere improving the machine.
(20:40):
There was no focus at all ontrying to improve the quality of
the tines.
And, I was at Salisbury CountryClub in the fall of 86, and we
were aerofying our greens thatfall for fall renovation.
And, um, Like most, every golfcourse out there, you've got one
(21:01):
or two greens that are yourproblem greens, and you're just,
you know, you're tough, and soAt that time I was getting about
three greens per set of times.
And It so happened that numberten green was a low pocketed
green, big trees around it, backcreek, horrible air circulation.
It was just a problem green, andI wanted to get as much depth on
(21:23):
that green airification as Icould.
And so I was changing the tinesprematurely because I wanted the
tines, you'd get decent depth onyour first green, second green
and start to wear, third greenis nothing but butter and to go
away.
And I didn't want that.
So I'm down there, my mechanicwas working on the top dress.
(21:46):
My assistant was changing cupson the front nine because the
ladies didn't mind playing onbumpy greens.
So they were waiting for us toexit, verifying number 10 green.
And they're up there watching,right?
The ladies are all up therewatching.
One of them happened to be thewife of the chairman of the
(22:07):
greens committee.
And I knew what was going on.
So I'm changing tines and I'mdown there doing it a little
early, prematurely.
And here comes my boss.
He comes down the car path.
I knew what was going to happen.
Hoi Pope drives up to me andasks me what I'm doing.
I said, I'm changing.
I'm about halfway done.
I said, I'm changing times.
(22:29):
He said some unpleasant thingsto me.
And then just drove off.
I thought I'm going to finishchanging times.
So I did.
Point being is, the nextFebruary, the It wasn't really
called an internationalconference and show that year, I
don't think.
But it was in Phoenix, Arizona.
(22:49):
And I went to it.
So I went to the Toro booth.
The big Toro booth.
I said, I walked in there and Isaid, Do you have an engineer
here?
They said, Sure.
Bob, come over here.
So Bob comes over and I said,Bob, make me a tine that will do
all 18 holes.
Where I don't have to stop myair fire.
Where I can keep on going andget it done.
(23:12):
He said, can't be done.
Turned around and walked off.
Left me standing there in themiddle of the Toro booth.
I was standing there lookingaround.
So I thought, okay, it can't bedone.
I didn't know.
So I left.
So how did the lenient timechange things?
When I started making tines forRedexum, I really got going
heavily, 94, 95.
(23:33):
And, um, That's when I startedlooking at trying to come out
with a tine that would do all18, 19 greens or 20 if you've
got two practice greens withouthaving to change the darn
things.
And it took me several attemptsand whatnot, but that's, we
figured it out and I introducedthe delineum tine in 1998.
(23:57):
Okay.
Okay?
Yep.
And there was surface tensionbecause times have been costing
a buck, maybe a buck and aquarter, and I'm saying pay me
10.
You gotta be crazy.
And I'm saying, yeah, but lookat all these tines.
You add up all the cost in thesetines.
Look at these few little tines.
Yeah.
It's less expensive.
But the real joy, the realbenefit is you start it.
(24:18):
Usually when you're air fine,you start at daylight.
Equated dark.
You get the golf course opensooner.
Everything starts withaerifying.
If you get it done, then allyour follow up processes are not
held up and you can move rightalong.
And, if all you gotta do is stopthe machine and put gas in it
and rotate an operator for lunchor whatever and keep it going,
Wow! What a beautiful thing thatis.
I've noticed over the years thatevery time you stop an aerifier
(24:41):
to change tide, you kind of openup Pandora's Box.
Mmmm you could strip and bowl oryou have all kinds of stuff.
And you're usually not doing itin the most pleasant places.
You're doing it on a car path orsomewhere.
And your operator, you don'ttrust them to do it, so they're
down in the woods hunting golfballs.
You get done, you stand, yougotta call them back up.
I mean, it's just Pandora's box.
I knew most superintendents weredealing with stuff exactly like
(25:03):
that, so.
And your debt stays consistent.
Debt stays consistent, whichaffects your absorption, your
uptake, it affects everything.
And, but I had to give sometimes to them.
They didn't believe it.
So I started giving tithes away.
Again, just like I had donepreviously, here, try these.
And when they did, they just, ittook off.
(25:24):
And then, I mean, we startedselling tithes and we had to
modify our, we had to have aninventory, we had to do a lot of
different things.
Trent Manning (25:33):
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Let's get back to the episode.
Jim Merritt (26:05):
Yeah, how did you learn metallurgy?
Coming up with that.
In 1994, I bought a machinisthandbook.
About that thick.
And so I read the title.
Most of what, I couldn't beginto tell you what it said, but it
didn't matter.
I was buying steel tubing andsolid rod at mill minimums
(26:31):
already, and I knew that.
But I was buying them and goingthrough a metal manager,
Metrolina Steel out ofCharlotte.
And, of course, they were, theyhad their profit margin in
there.
I recognized that.
So I started trying to callSteel Meals and buying directly
from them.
And I noticed when the tubingwould come in, it said Plymouth
(26:54):
Tube, Streeter, Illinois.
I got their number, I startedcalling up there and asking them
to give me an open account.
They wouldn't do it.
But I got, I went up the foodchain to their CFO, and he
happened to love golf.
So I called him and pesteredhim.
And we'd talk.
Five minutes about business andthen thirty minutes about golf.
(27:18):
Eventually, and I cannotremember the man's name now, he
said, Jim, look, we got anexcellent discount program.
It's two percent in ten days.
You take the discount, thisfirst order, and then after that
you've got an open account forthirty days.
I said, yes, sir.
And you better believe I didthat.
And it was like a domino effect.
Plymouth Tubes is well known.
(27:40):
So once I got an open accountwith Plymouth Tube, I was able
to springboard off of that andget open accounts with other
steel mills.
Okay.
And so I, so, when you do that,you're in an arena there where
you have access tometallurgists.
Ah yeah.
Yeah, they're the best that'sout there.
And so I'm out there picking atthat, trying to figure out
(28:02):
everything I can.
And so you have people come byand visit you.
Yeah.
And that's how I learned a lotabout steels and metallurgy from
those men and women.
And I learned a tremendousamount from them.
And I sucked it up as best Icould.
We were having to do heattreating as well, so you learn
about that to some degree too.
(28:23):
It's just a right angle learningcurve.
You know?
As you grow up.
I mean, you never quit learning.
No.
Not ever.
Life stays good.
Like the old saying goes,sometimes it's not what you
know, it's who you know.
Because who you know might knowwhat you need to know.
You're exactly right.
You are exactly right.
(28:46):
Who do you listen to?
One of the most important thingsyou'll ever learn.
Who do you listen to?
And this is something that, overa period of time, you kind of
check it.
Obviously, you want to listen tothose that make good decisions
and are right.
Yeah.
You see?
Yep.
And you figure out who's rightand who's not.
Pay attention.
You can't have your pridegetting away.
(29:07):
You can't have your ego gettingaway.
You gotta, you have to decidebased on right and wrong.
Yeah.
Easier said than done sometimes.
For human beings it is.
Yes.
Explain how you started makingbed knives.
So you're making all these tinesand you say, okay, let's make
bed knives.
(29:27):
Sort of.
Yeah.
Again, having been exposed tothe industry, I knew where the
volumes would be.
I knew what items would be werelarge movers.
And I knew also where I feltlike there was vast opportunity
for improvement.
I just, I don't like to makeanother me too.
Yeah.
I like to make things better.
(29:49):
That's what it's all about.
As a superintendent, Ievaluated, um, the value of a
part, not just the cost.
It was how, what did that partdo for me?
Yeah.
You see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
The cost would, if I felt likeit was a really good value, I
(30:10):
could justify the cost.
So, bed knives.
My brother was a naval aviatorduring Vietnam and he told me
one time the wing spars of ourhigh performance jet fighters
are coined.
What's coining?
Okay I know what a quarter is.
That's coining.
No, that's not coining.
(30:31):
So I started researchingcoining.
Noodling around and calling andjust asking questions so I could
learn.
And I realized that When youcoin a piece of steel, you
change it on a molecular level,and you enhance certain parts of
that material.
It's a squishing of metal.
(30:52):
Huh.
And when it's engineered, thedie is engineered correctly, it
will, the metal almost becomesfluid.
And it moves the metal into thebusiness end of whatever part it
is you're making, a true coiningdie does.
So, in this case, I wanted mygreens mowers, I wanted them
coined, and the relief behindthe strike point is what I
(31:18):
wanted to give coined, and Iwanted that material to flow up
into the strike point, and makethat strike point just as
durable as possible.
I wanted it to hold an edge.
I know they have to work inharsh environments, and grit,
and tin top dressing, and allthat stuff.
So, I started trying to findsomeone that could, Manufacture
a coining die for me to make abed knife.
(31:40):
It, easier said than done.
And we went through three orfour different companies before
I found somebody that couldreally knew how to make a
coining die.
They could hold it true, youknow, across that 22 inches
basically at that time.
You got, you get 3, you gottahold it true.
(32:02):
So, you have your Heat treatingis also involved in that because
when you, coining buildsstresses in the metal and it
likes to move.
Heat really makes metal move.
So there are certain things thathad to be done to try to
overcome those hurdles.
And we had a lot of years wherewe had failures and stuff.
(32:23):
One of the things that I want mycompany to do always, as long as
I draw a breath in part of thiscompany, it'll do it.
Listen to the customer.
Listen to the people.
Listen to the mechanics.
Listen to the superintendents.
They will tell you what theywant and what their needs are.
And react to that.
(32:44):
Don't just let it be like mewalking into this Toro booth
that day.
Listen to it.
Learn and react to that.
So we did.
And through, and, Men like you,who helped us refine our bed
nights to where we have anexcellent product now.
And so, we expanded the line andas a business owner, um, it's
(33:06):
refreshing to, to hear thatphilosophy.
Because I do think a lot ofbusinesses, and especially the
bigger they get, the lessthey're concerned about the end
user.
And, again, That's what it's allabout.
That's where your whole businessis.
(33:27):
I was an end user.
And I knew how difficult it was.
I can, I remember what I wentthrough.
And didn't have to be.
Right.
Yeah.
Tell me about Butch Trogdon.
Trogdon.
Trog, Trogdon?
Trogdon.
Yeah, now that's a story initself.
(33:48):
Butch was the Sr.
engine mechanic for the RichardPetty race team for 25 years.
And Richard Petty retired,turned the team over to his son
Kyle.
And Butch didn't get along withKyle very well.
So he left.
Now, when you're working inthat, you know, NASCAR, there's
(34:15):
no room for mistakes.
It's a white glove, dust freeenvironment they're working
there.
I mean, it's.
So he takes his paradigm, and hegoes to Star Mount Forest
Country Club in Greensboro.
Nice club.
And they had deer walkinggreensmores.
And they had L 95 or L 93 ontheir greens.
(34:36):
I can't remember what it was.
Anyway, it was a bent grass.
And, um, So Butch comes there,and his paradigm was if it's a
GM motor, he's not puttinganything back on that motor but
a GM part.
Okay, yeah.
He was.
So, here we are, trying to gethim to try our bed nights.
We knew they were good.
He wouldn't do it.
He wouldn't have any part of it.
(34:57):
Even his superintendent, wholoved our times, put some
pressure on him to do it, but,you know, not an overwhelming
amount.
So, one day, on a Fridayafternoon, I had flown up to
Chicago, helping train a dealerup there we'd put on.
And I'd fly back, and I had alayover, and I was waiting
Friday afternoon for my plane.
My phone rings.
(35:18):
He said, Jim?
I said, yeah.
He said, this is Butch Trogdonat Thar Mountain.
I said, hey Butch, how youdoing?
He said I doing pretty well.
Can I, you got time?
I said sure.
And he said I finally tried yourbed knives.
And he said I expected them tobe good.
I'd heard, that's why I waswilling to try them.
He said, but, what I'm seeingblows me away and I can't
(35:40):
explain it.
He said, what are you doingMonday morning?
Can you come over here?
I said, okay.
He said we top dressed.
This past Monday we've beencutting grit all week.
And I've had to face off the bedknives every day get them cut
again to go back out.
He said, I got nine WalkingGreens mowers.
(36:02):
Seven of them got the originaldeer bed knives on them.
Two of them I put your bedknives on.
I have not had to touch yourbedknife yet.
He said, but that's not what'sblowing me away.
He said, come on over here andI'll show you.
I said, okay, I'll be there.
So I go over, Monday morning,see Butch.
And he had a magnifying glass.
(36:23):
He said, you can get down inthere and you can look.
And he changed out the bedknives on all the deer stuff,
except for one.
And he kept one of my Mowingunits that he didn't change the
bed knife on.
He said, now look at the onethat the deer were the deer bed
(36:43):
knives on it.
I looked down there with mymagnifying glass.
You could see these gritstriations.
Through not only the bed knife,but also through the real blade.
He said, now look at yours.
And I looked down through thereand there were very much less
grit striations.
Same thing.
on the reel blade.
(37:04):
And he said, Jim, your bed knifeis making my reels last longer.
And that is huge to me.
I can't explain it.
But that's what's happening.
I said, okay, that's good.
That is huge to me.
I said, very good.
You're going to use our bedknives.
So, so that's, so I went away.
He starts using our bed knife.
He wrote a testimonial for us.
(37:26):
That was in May of that year.
And in November every year wehave a show at Myrtle Beach, in
the Carolinas, it's a prettygood sized show, and it draws
from Tennessee, Georgia, andVirginia even.
And so we had a booth, and wehad it set up, and Butch had
written me a testimonial,basically telling this whole
(37:49):
story, my brother Bob.
So, I'm sitting in working ourbooth, and Fred Hartenstein
walks up.
Now he's the head mechanic atAugusta National.
He walks up, and he was alreadyusing our tines, and he walks up
and starts talking to me.
So I have this testimonial in myhand, and I tell Fred about
what's going on, and I hand himthe testimonial, and he's
(38:11):
reading it.
And I turn around and look overmy shoulder, and there's Butch
Strogdon standing there.
I said, Butch! Oh, hey! Butch,this is Fred.
Fred, this is Butch.
And I just backed out and theystarted talking.
And next thing I know, Gus andNashville's buying our bed
knives.
(38:31):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So when you see the bastardsthis year, you'll know they
mowed them with our bed knives.
Oh yeah.
That's, I mean, that's how ithappened.
I mean, I couldn't, I mean, who,only the Heavenly Father can do
stuff like that.
Yeah, that's all.
That's all I just backed up andthey started talking to, I don't
know, they talked a pretty goodwhile.
(38:52):
That's cool.
Do you know if Butch, is hestill working?
No.
He retired.
He's retired.
Yeah.
How about developing theInfinity Tine.
Again, I don't like a me too, soI looked at by that time we
developed the Infinity Tine, I'dlearned more and more about heat
treating.
(39:12):
and metallurgies that connect tothat.
I mean, it's not just heattreating by itself.
It's the steels and thefoundations that you give to
work.
So we worked out a very goodproduct there.
Cause you can't just take mildsteel and heat treat it and make
it hard, right?
You gotta have, you gotta havemetallurgy before you gotta have
(39:33):
a certain amount of carbon.
You gotta have a certain, andthe alloys can play a part in
all that too.
And, you know, it's a.
It's a learning curve.
Yeah, how long did it take tofigure that process out?
Not that long, um, because I hada, by that time I had some
accumulated knowledge.
And I was able to come out withthat part from start to finish
(39:57):
probably a year at the most.
Okay.
Why did you decide to paint themblue?
Make them stand out.
Make them different.
Yeah, to make them different.
Make them different.
Everybody see that's a J.
R.
M.
Infinity Tine.
And I will tell you, my staffgave me a really hard time about
that blue.
(40:19):
I mean really hard time.
And, didn't want to do green.
You didn't want to do red ororange.
I wanted it to be unique anddifferent.
Yeah.
Truthfully, I was looking for acolor and I was in Lowe's.
And I turned around and I wentdown an aisle and there was all
these paint cans.
Right there.
And that one cap just caught myattention.
(40:39):
I grabbed it and it's going tobe our infinity.
Yep.
That's funny.
Yeah.
It's going to be our infinitytime.
It's funny how things like thathappen.
Again, why did I walk down thataisle?
You know, I wasn't even there tobuy paint.
I wouldn't even go there to findthe paint.
You know, I went there forsomething else.
Yeah.
The Heavenly Father.
(41:00):
There he was.
I came back and I startedpainting in that color.
And it just carried on over toour reels.
And now, anybody that sees bluereels is going to know that's J.
R.
M.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So where did the reels comefrom?
You just said, I'm making badknifes.
We might as well make reels.
Yeah.
I pretty much we decided weneeded to start making reels and
(41:22):
we had a pretty significantlearning curve there.
It took us longer than I'dhoped.
I think we're on revision 17now, so, but we've got a great
reel now and we're very excitedabout that.
It took us a couple of, two orthree years, really, to get it
down.
(41:43):
Why does why is quality soimportant here at JRM?
Because that's what matters.
It mattered to me, anyway.
I consider myself normal.
Now, she might not.
But I consider myself normal.
And So I figure everybody oughtto think like me.
And, You know, superintendentsare immensely practical people.
(42:05):
They live in a world where theycan't control life and death.
You know, grass will die.
And sometimes you don't evenknow why.
I was at Salisbury Country Clubwhen Root Rock Pythium first hit
Charlotte Country Club.
And I had to go back.
I went down there and looked atit and it was, boy, it was so
sad.
And it just, it had justevolved.
(42:28):
So we can't control stuff likethat.
And so superintendents are, Ithink, very practical people and
very humbled many times by thenature of what they're in.
So, I mean, I felt like if Ipresided, provided them a part
(42:49):
that was distinctively superior,they'd buy it.
And it would make their worldmore beautiful.
Make it easier on them.
Make their life easier.
Keep the mechanics off his handsand knees.
You know?
Yeah.
I've been on my hands and kneesplenty of times.
I don't enjoy it.
When you can keep a guy off hishands and knees as much as
(43:10):
possible, you've made a friend.
Yep.
No, you definitely have.
Do you have any new products?
Here?
And projects?
Anything you want to talk about?
Or discuss?
I can, I guess.
I don't see any reason why Ican't.
You are the owner, right?
So, you can talk about whateveryou want to.
Yeah I can do that.
Um, all through the years therehave been groomers and brushes
(43:36):
that have been on mowing unitsto try to make the grass stand
up and get a better cut and toget a better roll.
And golf course superintendents,including myself, were the great
links to Get a better stempreading.
Come behind and roll the greens.
Some of them just, you know,these rollers are awesome.
(43:57):
We realized that a big part ofthe brush, which you couldn't
utilize those brushes, they wereturning too fast, way too fast.
So if you put them down in theturf at all, they'll burn.
And in fact, if you put themdown much, if you have an
undulated green, it'll almostsuck the mowing unit down to
where it'll scalp.
(44:18):
I mean, it really, so thosebrushes were, and groomers too,
they really were, you couldn'tget them down in the canopy.
You just couldn't, you couldn'tget them, they were just, they
really didn't do what wasintended.
We have designed a brush, it'spatent pending now, that goes in
(44:39):
the same place as all thebrushes did, in behind the front
roller, front of the reel, butit's got it's own independent
motor, and it turns at 250 RPMs,instead of 3, 000.
Yeah.
So, you can literally put thatbrush.
down into the canopy of thegrass and pull that canopy up,
(45:01):
excavate the sloughed off leavesand open that canopy up to the
air and the sunshine and gasexchange and all the beautiful
things that makes the grasshappy.
Yep.
So you're actually doingsomething that's going to be
beneficial to the turf and atthe same time you get a much
better stimp reading.
So we call it a stimp brush.
Ah, okay.
(45:21):
Awesome.
That's so good.
That's exciting.
And you can mow every day withthis brush.
Getting down in the canopy.
And what we have seen, if youuse it every day, the grass will
just get healthier andhealthier.
How far below the rollers areyou setting that?
Or is it like, because it goeskind of into the canopy
(45:44):
sometimes?
It goes into the canopy.
It'll literally open up thecanopy.
Yeah, that's something else.
And I would think, too, openingthat canopy up when you did top
dress, it'd be easier to workthe top dress in and all those
things, too.
I believe, in time, it willtotally change golf course
(46:06):
maintenance.
Because I think it'll affect allyour cultivation practices.
It'll affect your fertilizationpractices.
The grass is healthier.
It'll certainly affect yourpesticide practices.
Yep.
So in time, we're gonna see howthis does but Anytime you make
the grass healthier and morerobust You've done something And
(46:30):
I can't think of anything elsethat was ever done to get a
better stem breeding That wasn'tdetrimental, really, somewhat to
the grass.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So, that's one of the reasonsI'm very excited about this.
Yeah, most all the practices wedo to make a green fast is not
good for the grass.
Cutting it lower, rolling it,whatever.
(46:52):
Here you can raise the cutknife.
Very likely you can raise thecut knife.
Oh yeah.
That makes sense.
We'll see.
Trent Manning (46:57):
Where do you see JRM going in the future?
Jim Merritt (47:00):
I really, that's a tough question.
I mean, we're going to continueto try to do the best that we
can to help this beautiful,incredible industry, which we
service.
Come out with new parts and tryto innovate things along the
way.
Listening always to the enduser, to the mechanics.
(47:21):
A maintenance technician cancall in here and ask to speak to
an engineer and he will get oneon the phone.
And that is, again, one of thethings that I think is very
important.
Trent Manning (47:31):
And that engineer isn't going to tell him it can't
be done.
See you later.
Right?
He better not.
Yeah.
He won't be working here long.
Right.
He needs to listen to what therequest is.
Yeah.
And then, because that guy hadno clue.
First of all, I don't think theguy was an engineer.
Yeah, who knows.
(47:52):
He called some other sales repover there.
Some other sales guy over there.
Yeah.
Looking back at it, I don'tthink Billy Bob knew anything
about steel.
Yeah, probably not.
But, I mean, you know, at thetime, I'm just a kid.
I'm going, Oh, okay.
I walked away thinking itcouldn't be done.
No way.
(48:13):
Knowing that it could be done.
And now here we are.
So that's that's gotta make youfeel really good.
How rewarding has it beenwatching JRM's?
Been humbling.
Progress.
Very humbling.
To have my peers see value in myproducts and what I do is
(48:36):
probably one of the mosthumbling things I can ever
experience.
It's a beautiful thing.
I've had, I have people say tome, Um, Look at what a great job
you've done.
Huh.
And I look at them and I say,Look at what a great job God has
done.
Ah yeah.
I mean, that's exactly how I seeit.
(48:58):
Yeah.
The Lord works through people.
Yep.
And I'm very humbled.
that we've been able to dosomething that I think has
genuinely affected thisindustry.
Like I say, we came out with ourdelineum tine in 1998.
Most people may not realize, butit was in, it was 2005 when
Toroio came out with her titantine.
(49:20):
Oh yeah.
You see?
And that was a definite responseto our little delineum tine.
And I didn't patent the littledelineum tine.
Should have.
But it didn't know to in thosedays.
So, it's okay.
Yeah, it's all right.
Yeah, competition's good.
And so, so, we made Toro do athing.
(49:42):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And then Deere followed throughtoo, I'm sure.
So that's humbling.
Very humbling to me.
Yeah, now it's definitely been apositive impact on the industry.
Cause, I mean, if you hadn't ofcome up with that.
You know, who knows, would ithave stayed like that forever?
(50:04):
God created competition.
We know that.
You get up in the morning, lookout your window, you watch the
robins compete with one anotherfor a worm.
God created competition for areason.
And I Competition, if it'shonorable and fair.
is great when you've got peoplerunning around.
Sniping behind you, that'sdifferent, but people are
(50:25):
people.
So competition is a good thingand it has shown to be a very
good thing in this industry too.
Yeah, it has been really good.
I can't thank you enough forsitting down here and talking
with me.
More than happy.
This has been enjoyable forsure.
Hopefully our fans and audienceover here has enjoyed it as
(50:46):
well.
Any other things from the peanutgallery?
You know, you get a It's justlike with Redexum.
We got a contract with Redexum.
Next thing I know, we got acontract with Liedemann.
Next thing you know, we got acontract with Firefly.
You know the name of it?
Yeah.
Firefly.
Yeah.
And, you know, I mean, it justsnowballs.
(51:08):
But it all has to do withquality.
It has to do with the quality ofa product.
So, I, you know, I want thebest.
I don't build in plannedobsolescence, ever.
I have these people saying it'lllast forever, Jim.
What are you going to do?
I mean, you know, they'reprobably going to buy one and
never buy another one.
I said, that's fine.
If everybody buys one, I'll behappy.
This one gives me a hard timesometimes.
(51:30):
But a lot of companies do that,right?
The planned obsolescence.
They do it digitally.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure they do.
And, I never appreciated that.
Yeah.
It's stupid to me.
Yep, I agree.
I agree with that.
Thank you.
(51:52):
thank you so much for listeningto the Reel turf techs podcast.
I hope you learned somethingtoday.
Don't forget to subscribe.
If you have any topics you'dlike to discuss, or you'd like
to be a guest, find us onTwitter at Reel turf techs.
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