Refer the Reefer - Season 2 - Episode 6 - NIkki Lawley and Invisible Injuries - Refer the Reefer with Host Lil Pharmer

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome everyone and thanks for tuning in to Reefer the Reefer the podcast with your

(00:16):
host Little Farmer.
I'd like to say thanks to all the repeat listeners out there and welcome to all the new listeners.
We have a special episode today with Nicky Lawley.
It's about invisible injuries.
We both discussed how head injuries have changed our lives and how we both turned to cannabis
to relieve some of the symptoms.

(00:39):
This episode is brought to you by the Connoisseur Collective and their March Dabness event,
which is tonight, March 24, 2023.
If you don't know, you better ask somebody.
Devon the Dude will be in the house and they're having some dinners with Sam's creations.
So last minute tickets need to get to www.theconnoisseurcup.com.

(01:03):
Let's get into the show.
So everyone, welcome to the show.
I have a special guest with me today.
It's Nicky Lawley and we're going to be talking about invisible injuries, including traumatic
brain injuries, which you might hear to refer to as TBI and CTE, which is, I can't remember

(01:24):
the anagram, but it means you got a lot of concussions and it gives you issues down the
road.
It's something that's common with NBA or not NBA, but NFL players in general.
And I used to play football as a youth up through high school.
It's also a problem with boxers.
I had a fighter on my show not too long ago, Milwaukee L-Dog.

(01:46):
And that's something we talked about.
And I too suffer from CTE from many, many sports and it's really hard to diagnose brain
injury.
CTE is something like we just talked, Nicky said, you can't diagnose it until after you're
dead.
Then they can go in and look at your brain.
I'm not going to tell Nicky's story.
I'll let her tell her own story, but I have suffered from many concussions in my life

(02:12):
has started out when I was young.
I don't even remember putting the T through my lip here in a bicycle accident before I
was five, five or six.
I fell off a slide that was over 12 feet tall on concrete and cracked.
I don't know if I had a crack skull.
They said I didn't, but it knocked me out cold and I've always had ear injuries or ear

(02:37):
infections ever since then.
And it's, and it still causes problems.
I got a list here playing football and youth.
I know I'd least got my head rung four to 10 times.
I can't keep count of them, but at least four times I really remember being unwary of where

(02:58):
I was at after I got hit, headaches, tears in my eyes.
And it was pretty, pretty bad two or three days of headaches afterwards.
And then after that, I almost forgot this one when I was talking or trying to make my
list here.
And beforehand, I was thinking about this one.

(03:19):
I had a 10 pound ashtray fall on my head when I was sleeping on the floor one day and it
woke me up and it still, it hit a nerve right on the blood vessel right here.
And it still affects me today.
And that was when I was 18.
Then in my twenties, I had a bicycle accident where I flew over the handlebars and my front
teeth broke the fall.

(03:41):
I was at least 15 feet in the air and that one hurt for probably three or four days.
And then a skiing accident where I jumped and my knees buckled in my pole, jabbed me
in the face, kind of like when your knee hits you in the face and when you fall down or
something or I don't know if you've ever had your knee hit you in the mouth here.

(04:03):
It's kind of like that, but the pole hit me right where my teeth broke my fall many years
before.
So it broke my septum and it hit me in the eye somehow.
And that one gave me a headache for three or four days.
But like you say, I heard you say, you can go to the doctor's, oh, well, you got a concussion.
Just go home, put some ice on it.

(04:24):
Don't fall asleep for a while.
But that's all the advice you get for head injuries.
A lot of times.
I'm going to go ahead and introduce you just a little bit from what I got from some of
the podcasts that I've heard you be on.
You're a woman who does not want to get high, but you just want to get better.

(04:45):
I understand that.
I feel the same way.
I don't really get high when I smoke, but I and when I eat edible, especially I feel
a lot better.
Your medical cannabis consumer after a head injury.
Before your injuries, you were well rounded.
You worked a lot of jobs.
You're a very versatile.

(05:05):
You were pretty social.
As some of the jobs you worked, you have to be sociable.
You were smart, adaptive, worked a wide variety of jobs.
You traveled and you'd lived a pretty full life compared to most and just working one
job or two jobs.
You traveled, you worked many jobs.

(05:25):
That's kind of like me.
I've worked at least 10 different types of jobs from video gaming to working in a restaurant,
to working in a dispensary, to teaching in a high school.
I was a teacher for a while, a substitute.
Could you let the people out there know kind of what your life was before your injuries,

(05:49):
what happened and then how you got into cannabis?
Sure.
Thanks for having me on today, Michael.
I appreciate the opportunity to share my story.
Invisible illness and invisible disability is a real thing.
I didn't understand it even working as a pediatric nurse.

(06:09):
Before I was injured, I worked as a dealer, as a pediatric nurse, HVAC, salesperson, business
owner.
I had done quite a bit of things in my short 40 plus years.
I had a really full life.
Everything was pretty cool.
I had a married, two kids that are older and a grandchild.

(06:31):
I just had another grandchild about five weeks ago be born.
So, a really full, robust life.
I was working just like any other day as a pediatric nurse and a child became combative
for a vaccine.
I had hit my head before.
There were two minor closed head injuries that I had had prior to this third one that

(06:56):
changed my life forever.
The child became combative for a vaccine.
Being a pediatric nurse, this is something we see every day.
This wasn't my first rodeo and the kid hit me in the head and I bounced into a wall and
back into his head.

(07:16):
My life changed in a literal second.
I had no idea the lasting effects of it.
I immediately had a severe headache.
My left arm became numb and tingly and I was very angry at the child.
I was like, luckily I didn't share any four letter words with him, but my mind was definitely

(07:43):
upset.
Right after it happened, a doctor from the next room came running over saying, oh my
God, what was that noise?
My coworker said that was Nikki's head as it bounced into the wall.
He's like, oh my God, are you okay?
I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.
Let's just get this over with.
So, literally the child got the shot.

(08:04):
This wasn't like a special needs child or anything like this.
This was just a regular 10-year-old that was about my size that didn't want a vaccine
and he wasn't going to get one.
So he thought, anyway, it was very dangerous.
I've since learned that the pediatric office I was working at really changed their policy

(08:25):
and no longer will allow nurses to restrain children that they feel unsafe with that situation
because it literally changed my life forever.
The amount of pain that I had following that after the injury, the physician I was working

(08:45):
with said, you've got to go to urgent care and get checked out.
I'm pretty sure you've got a concussion.
And so I did and I went to the urgent care and they said, yes, here's a note from work.
Take a few days off and you'll be fine.
I woke up the next day with such severe pain.
I thought I was having a stroke or something of that nature because it was this headache

(09:08):
like I had never felt before.
It was this pounding behind my eyes at the base of my skull.
I felt like, oh my God, there's something really wrong with my head.
So immediately my primary provider said, go to the ER and get an MRI and CAT scan.
So I did, it was the most torturous six hour wait to see a physician in the ER.

(09:35):
And I mean, I was just in agony and I'll never forget.
They said, yeah, you've got a closed head injury, nothing more we can do.
Just go home.
And I was like, no, there's got to be something.
This can't be just nothing.
There's got to be something on those images.
And that's what really began my loss of self was that visit right there.

(09:59):
What year was that?
If you don't mind me asking, what was the technology like?
Has it evolved since then?
Is it easier?
I'm not familiar with CAT scans and MRIs and head injuries.
I've never gone to a doctor for any of mine except for the one where I fell off a sled
or the slide when my mother took me.
But other than that, I've never gone to see a doctor.

(10:21):
I've just dealt with it on my own.
So it was in 2016, October 11th, 2016 was my injury at work.
Seven years.
The technology has evolved, but not enough to where just because you get hit in the head,
it doesn't always leave a visible note on these images.

(10:42):
And so it's really hard to explain until it happens to you.
Like explaining a brain injury to other people, they just don't understand it because they
can't see it.
I look fine on the outside.
You talk to me after I've medicated and I can connect all my dots when I'm not medicated.

(11:04):
I'm all over the place.
I can't follow the storyline.
I can't even share my story.
Hard to focus, isn't it?
Very hard.
And it's very detached.
So the short term memory, I got a couple of the listed here of some of the symptoms that
I have and some other people with head injuries have will be short term memory.

(11:25):
Like I have to write it down or sometimes I'll have to interrupt.
Because if I don't say it when I think it two minutes into the conversation, I'll forget
it and then I'll be like two hours later, oh man, I forgot to tell her this.
And headaches, of course, when the wind or the temperature barometric pressure changes
for sure here in Colorado, my head starts to pound.

(11:46):
I start to get cloudy headed.
Some of the long term ones are more like depression and loss of interest in all of the things
you love before.
I used to be pretty social.
Sometimes I don't like to be social.
I'll always have something to smoke when I'm in a social situation because I'm very fidgety,
nervous and just not interested in BS conversations about little stuff that doesn't make sense

(12:13):
or make any difference.
Do you have some of these symptoms?
You can talk, actually rewind to what your symptoms were right afterwards.
And I know you had a loving husband that helped you make the decision to try cannabis.

(12:33):
Did you ever try cannabis as a child?
That's it.
Because most of my people I interview, they're in the industry, they'll start younger.
It's good for their ADHD or just help them to focus.
And it's all something with the brain.
They were agitated in and calmed them.
So had I used cannabis before?
Yes.
But never did I believe in its medicinal properties.

(12:55):
I mean, I thought people that had AIDS or cancer or something like that, that, OK, let
them get high.
I don't care.
It wasn't affecting me.
But if you asked me as a nurse what my views were on cannabis as medicine, I immediately
would have said, yeah, no, you're just getting high.
And my opinion has 180 degree changed.

(13:17):
If you would have told me your child was using cannabis for seizures from another out of
state source or something like that, I would have called Child Protective Services on you.
I mean, that's how I was brought up.
I'm a child of the 80s.
I'm a child that grew up in that just say no era.
Nancy Reagan and I'm a dare graduate.

(13:38):
I could not imagine someone giving their child cannabis to stop seizures or other issues.
I just it was beyond my realm of understanding.
Had I used it socially?
Yes.
At the casino as a dealer, it's a very poly substance friendly environment.
So anyone was drinking, using pills, using flow.

(14:04):
Cannabis was available and I liked how I felt more using cannabis despite smoking it.
You know, I was raised with a mom who, you know, smoked the cigs and drank the coffee
all day.
And those were two smells that just like were offensive.
And so now the fact that, you know, I've completely changed my position and smoking is now the

(14:28):
way I medicate is rather humorous almost just to think that the symptoms became really debilitating
shortly after I was injured.
The balance issues, the cognitive function issues, the anxiety, the depression, the chronic
pain of my head, my neck, my back, everything just hurt.

(14:51):
And all the doctors were saying was you shouldn't still be having symptoms one month, two months,
three months, a year, two years after my injury.
And I'm like, no one wants to go back to work more than this girl.
And they made me feel like I was malingering, like I was faking, like I wasn't really injured.

(15:15):
You want some pills, don't you?
You just want to get high off your pills that they had already started giving you and you
want to get more.
Right.
And I was called a drug seeker.
You know, I was called in my medical file a drug seeker and no one want just when you
work as a nurse, a doctor is your immediate supervisor.

(15:36):
You do what the doctor says.
And so I was of that, you know, if the doctor gave me five prescriptions, you just take
them, you know, this is all upstate New York and Buffalo.
Correct.
You're in a Buffalo area at the moment.
So this accident happened there and the doctors were in that area.
And at the time, they were definitely that was seven years ago.

(15:57):
There was no medical in New York.
Right.
It was there was medical in New York, but it was very limited for conditions.
It had, I believe, five conditions at the time I was hurt.
I discovered cannabis by accident when I was totally hopeless three months into my accident.
My husband knew that I loved to go to Las Vegas and enjoy the sights, the sounds, the

(16:21):
gambling, the whole nine yards.
And I was in no shape to go on vacation for months into my injury.
But out of desperation to just kind of snap me out of it, he bought this trip and we go
to Vegas and I'll never forget this day as long as I live.

(16:42):
It was January 24th, 2017.
And I was ready to take my life three days into this vacation.
And I was literally moving the table to jump off the balcony of the cosmopolitan hotel.
And I just I felt like a burden to my family.

(17:04):
I felt like doctors didn't believe me.
I thought like this really is in my head.
At that time, I was taking some balsa.
I was taking opiates.
I was taking steroids.
I was on an antidepressant.
I don't even know besides Cymbalta.
I want to say Depakote.
There were so many drugs in my system at that point.

(17:28):
I was not right in the head.
My chemistry was messed up.
And so all I thought of was how am I going to die?
And so I pulled that table out on the cosmopolitan balcony and I stood at the top and I looked
below and all I saw were umbrellas because we were only three stories above the pool

(17:51):
area.
So I saw those beach umbrella kind of things in the pool area.
And I'm like, this isn't even I can't even kill myself, right?
I'm just going to get hurt and these are going to cushion my fall.
So at that same time, I was feeling even worse, right?
And my husband was out walking around and I look out at the Las Vegas strip and a building

(18:14):
billboard came driving by saying, get your medical marijuana card in Nevada today.
I laughed.
I was like, oh, that's cute.
Let's just fry your brain on drugs some more.
Long story short, I ended up actually getting my medical marijuana card going to the first

(18:35):
dispensary I ever had been to.
I felt like I was doing something wrong the entire time.
I felt like this isn't medicine and what am I doing?
I'm just going to fry my brain more.
And you know, it was surreal when I think back to that day and I think that people need

(18:56):
to understand when you are in a desperate situation and you literally have lost all
hope of everything in your life and you feel like you've lost your kids, you've lost your
husband, you've lost everything that you ever really loved and enjoyed.
You're ready to die.
And I was in that level of mental state and it was scary.

(19:22):
And that billboard saved my life.
That billboard gave me hope when I had none.
So going to the dispensary, consuming the products, I tried gummies, I tried lozenges,
I tried tinctures, I tried, I ate, I'm not even kidding, six or seven hundred milligram

(19:43):
packages of gummies because no one told me how much to take.
And I mean, I just, I had no idea.
None.
Zero.
And they tasted good.
So I just kept eating them.
And later, now I know about dosing much more than I did then.
And I know now that I lack the gene that metabolizes THC and CBD in your liver.

(20:09):
So it's a site.
It's called the cytochrome P 250 gene.
And that's just a real high level of saying you don't metabolize the stuff the right way.
You don't feel the effects.
And but at that time, I slept for the first time in three months, four months.

(20:29):
I had not slept.
Yeah.
Insomnia is another issue which just compounds all the other issues because you can't get
your mental, mental rest, which is very important.
I took a nap today because I know in the evenings I started to get my ADHD.
It's worse in my head.
I'm not as focused.
So I learned to take a siesta.
I lived in Spain for over 12 years and I had to take a siesta and because I would get up

(20:54):
early, work hard, take a three hour nap.
It's not a nap, really.
It's siesta because it's three hours and then get up and do the repeat in the afternoon
or in the evening and then have a big dinner and go to bed.
There you go.
I am, you know, that.
So when I came back to New York state, I expected to be able to get medical marijuana like I

(21:15):
did in Nevada, in New York.
And at that time, it was not one of the approved conditions.
What were the approved conditions at the time for the other states can hear and like, hey,
we need to get pain, chronic pain on there because mine's for IBS.
That's what I got my card for.
But that was the only thing that I could have potentially qualified for was IBS.

(21:38):
Other than that, it was wasting, debilitating to stage four cancer, wasting syndrome.
There were just five conditions that were so significant.
And IBS was one that like was the only one that I could even sort of qualify for, even
though I didn't really have IBS.

(21:59):
I was thinking I could go tell a doctor I had it.
But again, I don't want to lie, you know.
And so then when I told doctors, so I was part of the workers compensation system in
New York because I was injured at work.
And so the physicians that are there are literally incentivized to get you back to work as fast

(22:19):
as possible, not if you're better, but as fast as possible.
So when these doctors, I would tell them about my experience in Nevada that, you know, I
smoked a joint from the dispensary in Nevada and I was able to leave the hotel room for
the first time and that whole vacation.
Oh, we can't talk to you about that.

(22:41):
I'm probably sure they said.
Oh, they said that's illegal.
If you're smoking THC, that's not medicinal.
And you're a drug seeker and you're using something illegally.
And honestly, Michael, I didn't understand that medical cannabis and the guy down the

(23:02):
streets cannabis, they're the same plant.
They're just grown by different people.
In my mind, medical cannabis was like the difference between over the counter cannabis
and prescription cannabis.
I didn't.
It's the same stuff.
It's exactly the same stuff, but there is some medical, there's a little more care a

(23:23):
lot of times and should be sometimes.
It depends on the state.
It's all being regulated differently in different states and new states are, I just want to
one thing I'm trying to do the podcast with the new states who are regulating or trying
to make their regulations and rules that they the people know what to expect and what to

(23:47):
look out for, what to avoid, what to what to ask for.
So more reasons to be able to get your medical card.
Like in New York, they only have five.
Let's make it to four anxiety.
I think in California, if you're stressed, if job stress relieves your stress, we now

(24:08):
have any condition that a doctor prescribes is safe for cannabis.
That just happened in 2021.
Chronic pain was added to our formulary, if you will, of qualifying conditions back in
2018.
So in May of 2018, I did get my New York state medical card.

(24:32):
And then I began realizing the products that were in New York state were nothing like what
was in Nevada.
We had like so few products.
New York and Minnesota were really on the same page of regulations as far as what was
allowed percentage wise of THC, CBD and how they rated it.
When I was at my lowest point.

(24:55):
So January of 2017, I discovered the plant, came home to New York, got all hopeless again,
got prescribed more drugs again.
At one point, I was taking 16 different pills.
And of those pills, each one had more of a side effect.
And so what did the doctors do?
Give me another pill for those side effects.

(25:17):
And by the time it was said and done, I'm now taking one antidepressant and a thyroid
pill.
You know, that's it now.
And the cost on that must have been insane.
I didn't pay for it because, okay, yeah, workers comp, but still it probably even cost more
for the insurance company because I know whenever sharing companies paying for the doctor.

(25:38):
Oh, okay.
Well, because when I didn't have insurance, oh, you don't have insurance.
Well, we don't have to charge you for this.
And we don't have to charge you for this.
And to end it.
I know the trick.
My sister's a pediatrician actually.
And we've had conversations about it.
Then there's some doctors out there that will most definitely do that and take advantage
of the system to fatten their wallets.

(26:00):
100%.
And I didn't understand that as a nurse.
You know what I mean?
And why weren't we talking about more holistic approaches to my brain injury when I was hopeless
instead of talking about my diet, instead of talking about, you know, massage therapy
or, you know, cognitive therapy.

(26:21):
Instead we're just giving me pills, more pills, more pills, more pills, new treatments, new
this, new that.
I don't really go to the doctor too often.
It's not that I don't trust the doctors.
I know a lot of doctors have great intentions, but they're stuck in the system that I don't
trust.
Right.
Right.
And so I actually posted in 2018 a very hopeless post on social media on Facebook at the time

(26:47):
that was like, I finally found something that might have worked for my brain injury symptoms.
And now I'm told that it really wasn't effective.
And you know, I'm just a drug seeker.
And I've like pretty much lost all faith in the medical system and I have no hope and
blah, blah, blah.
Someone from Canada reached out to me and said, we'll get our medical card here.

(27:08):
Why don't you come up here and try our pot?
We've got pot up here.
And I live in Buffalo, New York, which is very close to the Canadian border.
So going to Toronto is like an hour and a half for me.
It's not a big, huge commute.
I ended up becoming a medical cannabis refugee in Canada because I literally found relief

(27:30):
for the first time from my TBI symptoms.
And it was incredible.
The amount of knowledge they had in Canada.
Like I learned about the plant in a way that had never been explained to me.
I learned we had a system in our body called the endocannabinoid system or ECS and I was

(27:52):
blown away.
I was like, I don't know what you're smoking, man, but we don't got a system in our body
like that.
Like I would have learned about that.
It connects all of our other systems and it's central nervous system in brain.
It's not what CBD CBD doesn't do a bunch of things.
It just does one thing and it affects your central nervous system and that your brain
and your endocannabinoid system.

(28:13):
But that touches on everything in your body.
It does.
It's your homeostasis.
It's your balance.
And when I heard that, it just was like, yeah, no, I don't think so.
But then I started hearing it more often and I started hearing more people talk about it.
And then I started going to events in Canada and it started opening my eyes to a whole
world I had no idea even existed.

(28:36):
So my friends got, you know, a couple of different strains from the licensed producer they had.
I mean, in Canada, I like to like to specify strains too.
So I heard you mention a strain that you really like, but you can't get it.
And that's going to lead me into something later because I'm a caregiver and caregivers
instead of dispensaries can keep these strains that the people they help alive so that they

(29:01):
can always get it.
You know what I mean?
And then I know you heard talk about it in dispensary later.
I'll let you continue.
You went to Canada and you had four strains.
Do you remember the strains?
The ones I helped you.
OK, well, well, Royal Purple Kush did not.
Help me.
I like comatose.
I was like, see, that would help me.

(29:21):
I loved that when I lived in Quebec and I've been to Toronto for probably four months of
my life because I was in Spain for 12 years and I could only find hash and it really wasn't
satisfying me.
And I started growing in Spain.
I got pulled over with a quarter pound of weed one time by the Spanish National Police,
scared to live a shit out of me.

(29:41):
I got out of it.
I had to sit on the side of the road.
They searched my car.
I was so lucky.
And I diverted them at the last second when they were going to look for my in the area
was that I asked him a question and he turned around and he started saying some in English
and I made a joke and then he stopped searching in that area.
So I might have diverted him from me going to jail.

(30:03):
But I asked.
After that, we moved to Canada and the Royal Purple Kush helped me a lot.
I loved it.
It smelled like a skunk and it was great.
Oh, I hated it.
But cheese, original cheese by Can Trust was a game changer for me.
He's OK.
It was a true cheese hybrid.
It was actually more like UK cheese.

(30:23):
It's a very popular one in the UK.
The cheese is a UK people.
Yeah, it was like an equal mixture of it was almost like a one to one with THC and CBD.
And it was so effective.
My husband, I'll never forget.

(30:43):
He called me while I was in Canada.
I was playing Scrabble.
I was doing basic math.
These are things that I could not have done the day before without the medicine.
And when you realize that your entire existence, can we put this on pause?

(31:04):
Yes, once again.
We're good.
So you can't use right.
The UK cheese was very effective.
And I was playing Scrabble.
My husband's like, what's wrong with you?
I'm like, what do you mean?
What's wrong with me?
He said, you sound normal.
You sound normal for the first time in two plus years in like your speech pattern, correct?

(31:30):
Like your enthusiasm or like your your own first back.
Were you again?
Almost.
Almost.
But yeah, it was insane.
That effect.
And so that's when I started to realize that different strains had different effects.
And I didn't understand at first what I was looking for.
So I started to journal the experience.

(31:53):
There was an app called Strain Print in Canada that helped me.
Log the experience so I could say I treat currently and back then.
But now I can articulate it much better.
My chronic pain of my head and neck.
My anxiety, depression and my cognitive function or brain fog.

(32:14):
That's what I use cannabis for medicinally.
And so when I started journaling the experience in this app, it started to build a history
and I could tell you based on terpene profiles what really worked and why.
And so I literally consumed cannabis based on the COAs or certificates of analysis or

(32:40):
lab testing reports rather than by a strain name, because this is how I kind of learned
what worked.
I've learned that strains high in limonene, pining really are effective for me for my
cognitive function.
But strains that are too high in pining without something to offset them, such as beta care
falling or another terpene, it's not as effective and it actually increases anxiety.

(33:07):
So it's like it's like sort of a whole experiment that you've got to be willing to try, you
know, and it's not a one size fits all.
What works for me might not work for you, even though we may have brain injuries, even
though we may have similar symptoms, we have different endocannabinoid systems.
So sharing that and letting people know it's OK to try different forms of consumption because

(33:33):
the bio bio availability is different.
When you smoke, it's rapid onset.
You will know pretty much within 15 minutes if that strain is effective for you.
Whereas if you eat a gummy, that has to go through your whole first pass digestive system
and be metabolized and broken down in your liver.
And many times you won't feel the effects for a couple of hours and people don't understand

(33:58):
that.
And then sometimes if you eat a really fatty meal when you consume your cannabis, that
too, that binds to the receptors.
And you can go down like a green out situation where you're too high and your body is saying,
get that out of me, almost like being too drunk.
You know, I mean, yeah, too much.

(34:20):
It's not good.
I assume a drinking, I'm not knocking anybody who drinks on a casual level and they can
consume a couple of drinks and that's it.
And they're fine.
But there's a lot of people that can't control their alcohol.
I was one who couldn't control how much I drank.
I didn't get violent, but I would just keep drinking.
And I think there's someone with my brain injury, maybe or my genetics and my weight

(34:43):
because I'm thin.
We metabolize alcohol faster than most people would think.
So thin people can drink more.
I just drank a lot and it didn't really get me drunk, but it it really wore my body down.
It wasn't good for it.
And I consumed a lot of cannabis at the time.
And I think that really regenerated my body after all the hangovers.

(35:03):
And it really helped.
I've heard this a lot and it really helped with the headaches.
It does for sure.
And when I have the right cannabinoids and terpenes, my life is phenomenal.
I just the problem with smoking is it only lasts so long.
And so as quick as it onsets, it also dissipates.

(35:25):
So within two hours, I'm no longer medicated.
So I tend to microdose throughout the day, meaning a small amount of a joint several
times a day rather than one big joint at the end of the day or the day before joints, the
balls and bones.
I do.
And it's sort of I actually when I go to dispensaries now, I go for pre rolls and a lot of people

(35:52):
do, especially because it's a lot easier.
I don't prefer them, but that's just easier when I'm at home, because I know a lot of
people don't like to smoke when I'm with my family.
I grew up, my mom and dad were 100 percent against it.
They were teachers.
I had some older sisters, luckily, who kind of mediated between me and my parents and
like, don't worry too much.
He's only smoking weed.
We'll kind of watch out for him.

(36:13):
He's not doing hard drugs.
He's not on pills.
He's not doing heroin or cocaine or a lot of other stuff.
Yeah.
So now they're open to it now, but I do respect to try not to.
Reek up their house.
I'll smoke outside.
And but I'll take little bong hits or bowl hits because it's easier just like you said,
microdose.

(36:34):
I'll take two bowl hits and hide it from the nephew so they're not questioning everything.
You know.
Yeah, it's a thing.
And the stigma surrounding smoking cannabis is a thing.
And that's why someone who looks like me does not exactly look like the, quote, cannabis
consumer traditionally.
But I'm trying to change that, you know, and say it's OK to have a bong rip.

(36:58):
It's OK to have a joint.
You know, there's nothing wrong with it.
And yet it's been stigmatized and demonized for so long that people need to see it in
action to really respect it and to believe it.
You know, I was told never smoke on a podcast because that just will make you look gross.

(37:19):
And I'm like, but that's how I Medicaid.
That's how I do it.
I mean, I don't want to mislead anyone and say, oh, I just take a little tincture here
and there and I'm fine.
No, I have to smoke.
I have to stink.
I mean, but there are other options out there.
Some people have the opposite effect of you with the tentures.

(37:42):
They just need a little bit and they can sleep like a baby.
One of my favorite stories is my friend lives in Virginia.
He lived in Colorado a long time ago with me.
We've always smoked and we had college together and we were drinking buddies, pool partners.
Then his mom hadn't slept in probably six years and he got his Med card in Virginia

(38:03):
and he got her some CBD tentures.
It was one thousand milligrams of CBD, maybe like 10 milligrams of THC, just enough to
activate them because that does have a synergistic effect, but it doesn't get her high.
But she takes them and she'll sleep like a baby and she wakes up with more energy and
she's happier.
And now she's like, I'm on the weed, guys.

(38:24):
I'm on the weed.
She goes and tells her her elderly friends and the word is getting around.
There's other ways to consume besides smoking.
Absolutely.
It does work for a lot of people.
I make my own tentures here.
I like the tentures.
They really do help, especially when I had covid.
The brain fog was 10 times worse for me.

(38:46):
I ended up getting fatigue.
I think the tentures actually help oxygen get to my muscles when I was having problems
with stiff muscles because I lived at 10,500 feet and the altitude and oxygen was low.
So it was really hard to get oxygen with covid.
And the first round I worked out of dispensary and we were all getting free samples because

(39:10):
we had a new owner and they were bringing all the new companies were like, oh, he's
a new owner.
And they were bringing in samples.
Yeah, you got to get our product onto the market.
So they were bringing samples and all the bud tenders would get a chance to sample them
and give their feedback.
But they never got educated.
That's the thing.
But they never got educated a lot of times.
I've seen companies come in and try to educate the bud tenders on the products so they can

(39:34):
educate the consumer about it.
But once it went recreational, nobody really cared about that.
It's all about just sell them, sell them as much as you can.
They're from Texas, sell them Willie Nelson.
We just mentioned Willie Nelson, they're all behind, upsell, upsell.
That's it.
And that's sad.
I mean, it's sad that it's become so commoditized.

(39:56):
But yet at the same time, the more products we have access to as medical patients, the
more diverse the market becomes.
It's harder to navigate them though.
So to what we're trying to do and what you're saying, smoke these strains, try them out
if you have this problem.
These strains are really hard to keep though in stock.

(40:18):
If you're working in as a bud tender or as a grower, you know that these strains can
get lost.
And people are like, how can you lose a strain?
Because you can say a strain like UK cheese, but the UK cheese grown in UK and then they'll
get seeds and send them over to Canada and it'll be the same seeds from them.
But that'll be like, it's like a mother and daughter.

(40:41):
You're going to have two different phenotypes and they're going to have two different mixtures
of terpenes and cannabinoids.
They'll be very similar, but not that one.
So it turns out when you hear a strain, there's one mother strain that's very infamous like
cookies and somebody paid a thousand dollars for this strain.

(41:01):
And then they get a clone of the strain.
It's going to be the same thing.
But then there's a bunch of seeds and everybody says they have this cookies plant because
it comes from the seeds.
It's not going to be just like that one mother.
They're very unique.
They're one in a million or even bigger odds than that.
You're right.

(41:22):
You're right.
And it depends so much how it's grown.
So like if you're growing outside, if you're growing inside, if you're doing LED lights
versus metal halide and high pressure sodium, you know, there's a whole different thing,
the medium you're using.
So that's why I shop by certificate of analysis.
And you go outdoors or indoors.

(41:43):
Do you have a preference?
Honest to gosh, no.
It depends on, you know, the turf profile.
I want to go more outdoors and possible, but prohibition has moved everything indoors.
So I don't know much about outdoors compared to the indoors.
The Canadians.
Thank you, Canadians.
I learned a lot from a Rick Simpson.

(42:04):
That was one of the first things I ever learned was Rick Simpson oil.
He's a Canadian.
I know they do a lot of research in Canada on and Israel on cannabis.
And it's a government thing.
So there's been tons and tons and tons of research done on cannabis.
And here we're still stalling politically saying, oh, we can do more research.

(42:25):
Why can't we share research with other countries that we already share?
Other pharmaceutical drugs.
Yeah.
Do we say share the same part of pharmaceutical drugs that we have a different system?
I lived in Canada, like I said, for for a part of three and a half years in Quebec.
And it's a little different than the rest of Canada, but it still has the different

(42:46):
health care system.
And it's different than Spain, too.
I like the Spanish health care system a little bit better personally.
But they're very slow on cannabis where I lived in Spain and other parts.
They're a little bit more advanced.
They just had a huge convention, Spannabis in Spain.
And I wanted to go to that so bad.

(43:07):
I just you know, when you're an advocate, you don't really get compensated necessarily
sponsored as easily as you did if you're a salesperson or something like that.
And I educate people on the whole plan.
And I try and, you know, share my experience to share that educational level and what?

(43:28):
Again, what my stuff, what works for me might not work for other people.
And so I'm not here to give anyone medical advice.
I'm just saying your own homework, be your own advocate.
And that's what I had to do, navigate this whole invisible illness disability thing.
You know, I looked fine.
And doctors just said, you know, oh, she's smiling today so she can go back to work.

(43:51):
No, I don't think you want me handling your child when I can't count to 20.
I don't think you want me being responsible for calling in medications when I can't do
basic math.
I don't think you want me, you know, trying to resuscitate your child if I can't count
breaths per minute and beats of the heart.
You know, I mean, that's a big thing.

(44:13):
And these doctors in the workers compensation system just cared about getting me back to
work.
Like I said, no one wanted to go back to work more than this girl.
And when I had exhausted all the different pharmaceutical approaches in 2018, so two
years later, I had started going out of network and started doing my own advocacy, trying

(44:37):
to understand what is wrong with my brain.
Why can I not do math?
What is the problem?
Why can I not regulate my emotions?
Why can I not, you know, why do I have a headache still?
I was hormonal.
Do you think was it like, cause I know hormones control a lot of that, especially with the,
with the anxiety and the depression and it says certain hormones are hormonal.

(45:02):
It was cervical instability.
So my neck got injured significantly when I got hit.
And so the blood does not flow to certain areas in my brain.
The cerebral spinal fluid doesn't go through my brain the way it does other people.
Maybe that's something that happens to my neck cracks all the time ever since high school

(45:23):
football before just heading and getting your head knocked around.
Yeah.
I mean, I pretty much have a bobble head.
Like, I mean, my head is heavy all the time.
You know, I, I almost feel like I have to go like this sometimes to relieve the pressure
at the base of my skull.
I get the ability pain right in the back.

(45:45):
Sometimes just lifting my arm up, especially in the morning, like I'll pick up a cup of
coffee or pot of coffee and it'll give me knife stabbing pain right in the back of my
neck here.
And I'll, I'm on my knees and tears for about 20 minutes and then I can get up and it's
like, it never happened except for like a long burning sting.
And it's, it's hard to explain that to people and doctors can't see the pain.

(46:09):
So they just give you drugs based on their understanding of pain that is based on a textbook.
And everybody feels pain differently to my, my way of feeling pain.
I grew up, my mother and the doctor, because I would have these inflamed ear infections
as a baby and I would stop sucking on my bottle, but I wouldn't cry.

(46:34):
I never cried when I had ear heaps.
Like, this is a tough little baby.
You must not feel pain or something.
I do feel pain, but not the same as other people.
I don't react to it.
I guess the same, I'll get hit.
I used to play football or have an accident and I wouldn't even notice that I was bleeding
or had a huge bruise until the next two days.

(46:56):
And then I'm like, why is my leg all red?
And why is it, why am I limping now?
And so other people process pain in different ways.
Lingering pain is a lot different than in chronic pain that just happened.
And like, you get your teeth knocked out.
Like I have them by, by a root.
I swear I was 12 feet in the air on a bike and my teeth broke my fall besides give me

(47:20):
whiplash and that I had a mini tiny bruise on my shoulder.
And after flying 12 feet in the air, the people thought I was going to be dead.
They come running over to me and I walked over and said, all right, take me home.
They were, I thought you were dead, man.
There's no way.
Cause we didn't have helmets at that time either.
It was back in the nineties.
Right, right.

(47:40):
Everything is involved, you know, so differently now and how we treated babies, for instance,
you know, I mentioned my daughter just had a baby and like one of the things, everything
is different now than it was even when I was a nurse.
Like they have to sleep on their back.
They can't sleep on their stomach.

(48:01):
They can't sleep in a swing or in a car seat.
They have to be on a totally flat surface, like things that we never even thought of,
you know, and now there's so many warnings on everything because everybody's so paranoid
about getting sued.
And so everyone is afraid of like, that's a big thing with insurance, with events, like

(48:26):
they don't even bat an eye for an alcohol tent.
But if you say you're going to have consumption of cannabis without alcohol, even that's a
huge, big thing.
You know, I mean, at least it's becoming more normal in Denver and California and certain
states, but you know, it's still a big hassle to get insurance coverage for events and things

(48:50):
like that.
Even here in Colorado, we're not guaranteed that we can keep our job with a medical card
and people still, like I heard you say, you had to carry a fake urine around while you
were at work and they say, hey, give you a pop urinalysis in the middle of work or something.
You know, I still have somebody I care for here as a caregiver who has to do that too.

(49:13):
They have their fake urine in their purse in case they get caught up for the urinalysis.
It's all about the temperature.
The purse won't do it.
Yeah, but they have to don't give it to her and she has to go to another laboratory.
She has a drive and she stops and warms it up and has a little thermometer on the side.

(49:34):
She's well seasoned.
She's in her sixties.
She's had to deal with this her whole life.
Just dealing as somebody like myself, I started gradually at 17, 16, my first time I really
felt it and it slowed my brain down and I was thinking normally as I think people think

(49:56):
normal.
I don't know.
And consumed it through college.
It's one of the reasons I went to college where I went because I knew that I had a connection
there already and I could get it and we didn't have too many names at the time for what we
got.
We just got what we got.
Sometimes it helped more than others, but it was very, it made me paranoid.

(50:21):
It can make you paranoid and it has a bad stigma.
So it kept me from socializing as much as I wanted to, but I always went to parties.
I always had some herb and wherever I always lived, it was always illegal.
I'm trying to read my notes here, but I'm not too good at it.
I had to hide the consumption.
It kept me away from the family.

(50:43):
It did affect many relationships.
It makes you paranoid and I never wanted to do pills.
I never did pills in my life except for ibuprofen and ibuprofen too can really do damage to
your stomach.
My father was in the same boat.
He was a referee and his knees were hurting him.

(51:04):
So he'd take a couple of ibuprofen before the game.
After the game, he would be okay and eat something, but with ibuprofen without food, he was taking
it and it just destroyed his stomach and had ulcers.
I did the same in high school.
So it destroyed my stomach when I was in high school.
That's what I used for pain in high school playing football and sports and I was a pole

(51:27):
vaulter and it really screwed my shoulder up and pulling it back all the time.
That with the cervical neck and hitting with football and everything, it really has screwed
up my neck in a good way.
So I relied on alcohol a lot.
I know a lot of other people rely on alcohol too.
Head injuries and alcohol do not mix.

(51:49):
Head injuries and other pills do not mix.
I know a lot of people have mixed those and then it just makes those suicidal thoughts
even worse because alcohol is a very depressing drug and it's not for everybody.
It just changes some people.
Some people aren't the same after one drink.
They become totally different people.
Some become angry.
Some become loosey.

(52:10):
Some become just really happy and then crash.
And they're sad.
I've seen that happen many times.
My ex was from Peru so my daughter is half South American, Native and I talked to her
grandparents and it's destroyed cultures.

(52:32):
They talk about how it's destroyed cultures in the Native American world and that was
one reason I really quit.
And I came back to Colorado when they legalized but then I got hurt and had to go back to
West Virginia because I couldn't walk or work.
I had hurt my foot and I went to the doctor to have them check my foot out and I told

(52:54):
them I don't want any pills please.
I want some kind of rehabilitation, some kind of acupuncture and first thing here take these
gabapentin and I'm not going to take the gabapentin.
I just told you I don't want pills and well don't worry they're not on the addictive
list.
They're not addictive.

(53:15):
And lo and behold what four years later they become newest addition to the addictive list
of pharmaceutical drugs that the companies have said they weren't addictive but they
were like OxyContin many years before.
And I've had a lot of friends hooked on pills at young ages in grade school or not grade

(53:37):
school but middle school and high school and alcohol.
It was so easy to get and one of the biggest issues that politicians will bring up whenever
it does come to light into a conversation is that children are going to get access to
cannabis and being in Canada did you notice there what is what's happened in Canada with

(53:59):
children did is there a big influx of kids hanging out on the corner smoking joints?
No, no.
In Canada especially there's so many requirements about access safe access for Canadians and
no in Canada definitely I don't notice I don't have the statistics or anything like that.

(54:21):
But in states that have legalized cannabis there is proof that there's no increase or
uptick of cannabis consumers of high schoolers or underage.
See I've seen where it's gone down that's as well as narcotic prescriptions as well
as alcohol use as well as so there's you know anybody can do a study and one of the things

(54:47):
like National Institutes of Health.
Okay they're looking for the harms of drugs and so their study is really jaded to show
the harm of the drug not the benefit of the drug.
The one that was got my father my father's like oh you're in Colorado make sure that
you watch out there's going to be more car accidents because of people smoking weed and

(55:10):
driving and they had they showed statistics how the percentage or or no not the percentage
the number of car accidents since legalization in Colorado has risen and I looked at it and
I heard it from the other perspective the yes it has the car accident numbers have increased
significantly but so has the population and through percentage wise it's actually decreased

(55:37):
and how many how many years has the Department of Transportation tried to reduce casualties
on the highways with drinking and driving seat belts and all these different types of
commercials test belt dummies boom and you know they've spent millions and lo and behold
smoking weed will bring down the amount of deaths on the on the highway that's what the

(55:59):
statistics are showing but they won't show it that way.
We have to recognize that not everybody gets high people get medicated so just because
you're prescribed Oxycontin for your chronic pain and I'm prescribed cannabis for my chronic
pain I use cannabis you take your Oxycontin we're chronic pain patients so that really

(56:26):
doesn't increase our impairment even though if I were to take an Oxycontin you know having
not done it before you probably wouldn't want me behind a wheel same as cannabis like the
newbie should not be driving or operating heavy machinery after consuming until they

(56:46):
figure out what is working in their body when you combine substances it's definitely a bigger
problem than just isolating one substance so a lot of the moms against drunk driving
things like that they're freaked out about cannabis and again we're trying to lump it
into the alcohol pile or trying to lump it into the heroin pile because that's the scheduled

(57:13):
drug but it is and it's absolutely wrong and until it gets rescheduled or de-scheduled
it's going to be an uphill battle no matter who you talk to you know it's really difficult
to get this law passed or recognized because you know they talked about it in Switzerland

(57:34):
recently or Austria Switzerland Austria something like that they had the National Institute
of Narcotics or drug use and they were talking about how North America going with cannabis
is violating the 1961 policy of narcotic drugs and it's like it's not 1961 anymore

(57:59):
and it isn't a narcotic and yet it's treated worse than a narcotic and we've got to do
better people have to do their own research and they have to learn as much as they can
about the condition that they're treating and look at alternative therapies every doctor
is not your friend every doctor just because they have a dr ahead of their name or an MD

(58:22):
after their name is not the most knowledgeable of your health as the health care system evolves
doctors are paid on the amount of patients they see so you might have sometimes they
get cake backs on what they prescribed to in certain countries when I got went to Peru
it seemed like the pharmaceutical company representatives were like vultures there excuse

(58:46):
me I had a I got I went to Lima and I got I wasn't smoking I would it was one of the
longest breaks I've taken from smoking in a while I couldn't get access soon as I got
there I had a line on some and I read the paper right after I got there and heard it
there was a 20 pound bust or something and that affected the hookup I had lined up and

(59:08):
then it fell through the contaminations in the air got into my lungs and I got pneumonia
basically and I could not get better down there and the only thing that made me better
was cannabis I had basically went to the mountains where the air was clean at 13,000 feet and

(59:29):
I couldn't breathe because of the cold nights and the fires and the hot days I couldn't
breathe so I had to come back to America and the vultures down there had me on steroids
the inhaler 20 different other things ended up getting shots I passed out at the hospital
and I could not get better no matter what I just felt like crap so I came home and luckily

(59:53):
I had a line on a good ounce of herb and I just smoked on it for three days and I was
better all of it came up all of it came out and I felt better it really cleans my lungs
out people will say the smoke is bad for you but during COVID to somehow they proved that

(01:00:15):
it coasts the inner of your lining interlining of your lungs and helps to keep the COVID
from attaching the virus or to attach to your lungs and to dwell there and and cultivate
and and get stronger so I think it helped a lot of people in Colorado with COVID consuming
and the edibles I know one time I had the fatigue I had fatigue for a whole year and

(01:00:39):
I was one of the long haul symptoms of survivors I didn't even know I had COVID at first and
then two weeks after I had it I was in bed and I didn't get up for six months basically
it felt like I couldn't get back to work I ended up having to move to Denver to get another
apartment where the altitude was half as high and I could get more oxygen and it really

(01:01:04):
really did help it was a lot it was an oxygen issue and the cannabis really helped and helped
so many things and they did some research on that in Canada too and we could share nationally
research yeah I mean Israel too we I know uh America it's a uh it's another place that

(01:01:30):
we we have good relations with them why can't we share information like that right for sure
and let me double check in my note to make sure I didn't forget something um so some
of the strains that you prefer have you ever had a strain that didn't hit you right they
made you even worse like I get um I used to get a little anti if I smoked a a high limonene

(01:01:54):
strain I find strains high in mercine are too sedating for me they don't unless I'm
planning on going to bed so I stay away from those um Alaskan thunderfuck actually I've
sampled probably nine different times and I've never had a positive experience from

(01:02:16):
it is that's one that just doesn't hit you right it gives me a bigger headache it um
makes me more fidgety it just it doesn't affect me correctly and again you can't say that
with every strain because it depends on the conditions it was grown on as we touched on
earlier where it was grown and how it was grown one of the big things is what pesticides

(01:02:38):
were put on it and if it was sprayed with anything if it has contaminants and that's
a good thing with the legal we too you get it tested um it just you can uh on a high
level they can use these testings to manipulate the systems in ways too they can and especially
when you have states that are focused on high thc tax like the higher the thc the more the

(01:03:04):
tax they charge which is ludicrous I mean the medicine isn't just thc or just cvd it's
the whole synergistic effect of all the cannabinoids and all the terpenes and flavonoids and everything
working terpenes are the biggest influence like you said if you get the analysis of what
terpene profile is in the strain it really helps you more if you can understand those

(01:03:28):
so people are moving away from indica and sativa for sure indica sativa means nothing
and it just it frustrates me because that's what they all talk about that's to me just
lazy marketing um everything is pretty much a hybrid it's all cross-pollinated and to
have a true sativa or a true indica it's just how the plant is shaped its leaves are shaped

(01:03:52):
it's not necessarily about the effects it produces it's the terpenes of where it's produced
and you know for me mercine makes me tired for you maybe it helps control your pain and
it doesn't affect you in the sleepy category it's good for adhd it calms down people with

(01:04:14):
adhd right and there's a wide mixture so if you get a little mirror scene makes a little
beta karyophiline and then you get it mixed with something else it gives it a different
fruity flavor um the mixtures and quantities do make a big difference too here meersene
is the number one terpene i believe in in cannabis so you almost always see it in there

(01:04:36):
but it's the percentage so you're not really going to find a strain that doesn't have any
meersene in it there's always some in there i believe that in beta karyophiline um humaline
is usually in there with the karyophiline but that's a good narcotic one it's good for
pain also the limonene is more of an energetic one so i'm already energetic i don't really

(01:04:59):
need the energizing but other people they're completely different well my roommate loves
it and he's had probably 14 surgeries he's had the neck fusion and he's had and he he's
uh immune to opiate so he can't take opiates so in colorado do they have to put on the

(01:05:20):
labels the terpenes and minor cannabinoids or no i don't believe so but uh some of them
do like the better better companies do the medical ones do it's um like the best labeling
ever nevada i find is the very best with you know they have the three minor cannabinoids

(01:05:41):
they have the three terpenes and to me that every state should do that for their medical
patients i just one thing i'm afraid that recreational is kind of taken out of the market
here in colorado i came to colorado thinking yeah medical i'm going to go on the medical
side and i'm going to find better cannabis than i will on the recreational side but it's

(01:06:02):
the opposite by the time i came here medical was around for so long recreational is coming
in and big interest is taking over the recreational a little bit more and the state makes more
tax money because they get eight percent off of the medical and they get up to 25 on the
on the recreational so do the math what do you think they want and what are they pushing

(01:06:27):
forward yeah yeah so um equalizing the tax on that might make a difference from that
perspective for sure for sure i mean and cannabis is so expensive in so many ways like main
is doing it probably the best they have a very open market in main i think it's a low

(01:06:50):
cost barrier to entry and i think that they really do care about medical patients and
they are doing all they can to make their program successful and not be swallowed up
by the rec market i uh i have to go back and listen to the name but um i had uh another

(01:07:10):
guest on here previously the last guest i had on was mike bc oh he's from an area called
area 420 in in colorado it's the highest concentration of cannabis growers and it's a in north america
or in the world probably but it's it's in a very unique place and um he talked to a
lady who's putting in a bill to allow social equity growers to um or two ideas one's from

(01:07:39):
virgin islands where they're given micro licenses for up to 50 plants to the locals and virgin
islands because he's kind of helping coordinate their legalities as they're rolling out and
then the other one is allowing social equity licenses here to go straight to the consumer
and bypassing the dispensary farmers market style and i know canada or not canada but

(01:08:02):
main was something like that or vermont with milk you can get straight to the farm get
your milk without having to go to the grocery store type deal also would be a good idea
um i want to remember her name and see what the um bill is she's putting out and then
see if other other states can get that bill and try to see if they can copy it and get

(01:08:23):
it in their state right right it makes sense me as a home grower i i home grow and i am
a caregiver i i want to promote caregivership there's something else that you can do in
uh new york if you can find somebody that can grow for you and tell them what you like
and they can get that and they can always keep it there and then you just help them

(01:08:44):
with their budgets and uh that's something that was here and they're trying to the big
entities are trying to cut out too because that cuts into their profit right oh well
let's make the medical patients come by from the recreational and run them dry just like
the pharmaceutical companies are and that's why a lot of people go to cannabis because
they don't like the pharmaceutical companies the way they work now the same stuff could

(01:09:07):
happen in cannabis if we don't watch what what they're doing like our caregiver program
it doesn't matter if you're a medical patient or a caregiver um you can have up to two medical
patients in a household like even if you have 10 people in your house only two can be considered
for the home grow regs you can grow a total of 12 plants max even if you're a caregiver

(01:09:33):
so if the guy down the street is growing his own medicine for himself and his wife needs
medicine too they're not going to want to be a caregiver you can be a caregiver for
up to four patients but you can't increase your plant ratio no that doesn't how does
that work and then there's probably because indoor it's hard to grow unless you're very

(01:09:55):
experienced to grow a large quantity with that many plants you can do it outdoors easily
but i don't know a lot of them will actually control how much you can grow and if your
plants are too big outdoors then they'll come and get you for you got too much and they
try to regulate it too so um well new york state is cool because you can have three ounces

(01:10:18):
on your person and you can have up to five pounds at home so that's very generous that's
not too bad generous of states that i know of um also but you're not going that's hard
to grow that many pounds on that many plants oh yeah how you're going to have to source
it illegally somehow worse off somebody else right numbers just don't make sense no they

(01:10:42):
don't but it's because so many arrests happened in new york to especially the black and brown
communities um and simple possession charges you know they'd go to jail for a joint you
know the search and frisk era under bloomberg was a disaster did you ever have any uh scares

(01:11:02):
trying to cross the border to canada because i know if you uh were ever arrested for a
joint or even arrested for a dui in the united states and the canadian border patrol knew
it they wouldn't allow you to enter and vice versa correct so uh i did have one incident
going into canada i had medicated probably two hours before i crossed into canada and

(01:11:26):
they smelled it in my car i got pulled over for secondary inspection and i knew i would
not i mean why would i go to canada with pot like because i couldn't bring cannabis home
with me but why would i go there it would be like taking my own sandwich to a buffet
it made no sense um so the dog comes along and i'd never really dealt with drug dogs

(01:11:52):
and uh he's smelling me smelling around the outside of my car he's smelling inside the
car and when the dogs wagging his tail that's great as soon as that son of a bitch sits
down and stops wagon is in trouble you're screwed so that dog stopped wagging his tail
on my driver's seat and i'm like but i didn't know you know i was like there's no way there's

(01:12:19):
any weed in my car i smoked it and i threw it out like you know there's no residue yeah
no what it was was a joint that had come from canada it was they call them tunie joints
two dollar joints oh yeah like less than half a gram of cannabis less than half a gram of
cannabis in it and that joint had been run over my seat by my seat like 10 times i mean

(01:12:45):
it was completely unsmokable completely unusable but yet for seven years i have to go through
secondary inspection every time i crossed the border the ptsd and the stress that is
involved in that is absolute flipping hell i got pulled over secondary i used to have
to drive through buffalo to get to quebec i lived in north of montreal and st. adele

(01:13:09):
a small little town it was uh i got pulled over because i have a daughter and it's an
international thing she had a spanish passport i got an america passport we're going to
canada and whenever a child's involved they always do secondary things just to make sure
everybody's they separate us ask us questions everything coordinated we left and but another
time we were coming back i had a dog and and i had to make sure i had all the dog papers

(01:13:35):
for the dog make sure the dog i didn't have any weed on me but uh it's very easy like
you said to misplace something and uh i accidentally flew to spain with a with an eighth of weed
in my pocket here i didn't know it was there and uh yeah it's very easy so that's something
you got to very be very careful with yes yes it was a horrible ptsd provoking experience

(01:14:01):
and i've had two other encounters that were just horrible um besides that original dog
incident where i had to surrender my phone they went through my whole phone they went
through my text messages my browser history and i felt so criminal like i felt so i'm

(01:14:21):
like i'm a medical patient i feel like i'm being discriminated against and then that
was not the right thing to say to this particular officer she like went off on me you want my
supervisor's name you want to report me you're not being discriminated against you tried
to smuggle cannabis into i'm like it came from your country it didn't even make sense

(01:14:44):
and i mean was it wrong yes 100 i'm not suggesting what i did was correct but it's just struggles
you go through being a cannabis consumer yeah or medicine yeah i've had to go through it
my whole life um and uh yeah like um going through the um caregivership like i said you

(01:15:08):
can keep the genetics you want um it needs to be expanded somehow uh here's pretty good
i can have 24 plants my roommate can have 24 plants but it depends on the municipality
where you can grow so if you listen to the last podcast it's all about getting to your
local politics i know you uh used to be a political advocate when you first started

(01:15:33):
and it probably was draining because you're not making any treadway and you don't have
millions of dollars to throw in their pocket to to make them open their ears up um but
local politics uh running for local politics the town council is on a small level you can
have a town ordinance that the local sheriff can back up and on a county level and uh that's

(01:15:59):
that's the way to go we start small and get into local politics change the local politics
i know in west virginia they have the medical and they say that each county can't change
the law in each town like that so that's the first law they need to change theirs so in
spurt in certain towns if they want it they can change it and locals can can uh thrive

(01:16:26):
off of it or make a living off of it or support the local economy go straight to the market
bypass the dispensary um the social equity is a big thing too um i heard you mentioning
on one legacy you know what a legacy grower is and uh they know their stuff and they can

(01:16:47):
already be 100 steps ahead of some of these companies with big money coming in hey we're
gonna grow we uh we can make money off of it you got to multi-tier it you got thousands
of plants and then the quality goes down on that that's when you get your molds in here
there's um something here i just got a message from a friend it says that uh one of the main

(01:17:09):
very uh popular companies here got a mold a health and safety advisory for veritas fine
cannabis they had three different batches or more that were contaminated with molds
that's scary yep and there is medical patients especially if you have lung a lung condition

(01:17:36):
i mean have smoked mold is not cool no i think that um smoking bad weed as a as a kid as
a teenager in my 20s really hurt my lungs is i had uh actually was in colorado when
it legalized i went back east and then i had to get some illegally there and they were

(01:17:56):
like yeah source from colorado it's great i got it and it burned my lungs and i got
i got bronchitis again so smoking bad we can trigger bronchitis but smoking good weed can
help heal it yes if in low dosages vaping is a good way you like to vape right if some
people can't smoke i really am not a vapor i only do it i do it only as a necessity when

(01:18:23):
i'm out in public um it really doesn't help the way smoking a joint does um i find it
exits my system just as fast as it comes in with a vape and i don't understand necessarily
why or the bioavailability it's in theory it shouldn't be any different but i know lots

(01:18:44):
of people that say even dry herb vaporizers don't get them the same level of medication
that doesn't mean either i know a really good live rosin cartridge if you get a really good
live rosin cartridge and when you inhale and exhale it tastes like cannabis like it tastes
like whole plant medicine those do help especially but then they're not discrete the whole reason

(01:19:08):
that you want to try to use it is discrete but when you exhale it smells just like cannabis
oh man i could just smoke the joint or the pole it would do the same thing all right
um nicky and the plant's whole mission is to educate and empower other patients and
so what i'm trying to do is really create a a road show if you will of education and

(01:19:34):
hands-on learning with you know talking about the terpenes talking about the flavonoids
talking about the minor cannabinoids and the health benefits and helping people feel less
scared about consumption and that's really what i preach whether it's to doctors to
nurses to you know the everyday grandma down the street you know we need to normalize the

(01:19:57):
conversation and that's really what i find empowering about my whole brain injury i feel
like i went through it all to help someone else get through their journey because if
i hadn't been hurt i never would have understood this plant i never would have understood this

(01:20:17):
amazing community that i had no idea even existed and the plant has empowered me the
plant has given me hope when i had none so i was um i think since i've been 18 i always
bring it up in conversations and that's what i've been smoking for 30 years now so for
20 some 30 plus years you get into a conversation and you start talking about weed and people

(01:20:42):
don't want to hear it now people are asking oh well their ears are opening up because
of these stories and it's becoming a little especially after covid i think covid gave
people time enough out of their hectic lives and craziness to sit down and to really think
and look back at what is happening and what they're putting in their bodies and what they

(01:21:07):
have access to and are they going to eat more food is alcohol helping them and a lot of
a lot more people tried cannabis for their first time and had good experiences right
and they didn't know because prior to that no one wanted the stigma you know cannabis
was use was deemed essential like dispensaries were deemed essential required to be open

(01:21:31):
uh in new york state and that was a big deal here in canton colorado too i'm part of the
courage and cannabis uh book which is an anthology of stories about people's lives that have
been changed with cannabis and volume one is already out and i'm part of volume two and

(01:21:52):
i'll be sharing my story in that to try and empower other people and try and help them
be their own advocate and how to talk about cannabis in a way that isn't scary and really
break it down in a simplistic way and that's what my whole mission is is to educate and
empower yeah i know going back to home and uh talking to people and even as being a friend

(01:22:18):
of mine have a bad experience um one of the big issues is even a religious issue too some
of them think that they're going to be bad christians if they if they try cannabis that's
how embedded it is into their brain that it's a demonized thing you know no simply smoking

(01:22:38):
a cigarette and alcohol but oh man god's gonna think bad of me or or their parents or their
grandparents or somebody like they really respect is gonna come across them and they're
high they're gonna freak out oh he knows i'm high they know i'm high what are they gonna
think of me they're gonna think less of me and it's it's really a big big big issue it

(01:23:02):
really is and so we have to talk about it that's why i do these podcasts that's why
i share my story on so many platforms you know maybe i can't change the world for everyone
but i might be able to change the world for one person and if i do you do topics do you
do topicals um not really no no do you have an issue with those um with the uh absorption

(01:23:30):
i'm sorry no um topicals are very much a surface absorption transdermals will get in the bloodstream
but again finding the right products and quite honestly i've found them very expensive for
the benefit that they give me um i'm not saying that's a bad choice for others because there's
a reason they exist you know they help people so you know having rapid onset dosing for

(01:23:56):
me is what is key and when i find the right products i just want to gobble them up you
know i go to california and i found so many great products and i want to come back to
colorado quite honestly as soon as possible because you guys have it really going on um
i have some friends that are creating a consumption lounge called the the serious social club serious

(01:24:22):
social club c i r r u s social club this guy is like cool as hell and like really trying
to do it right and i went to this exclusive event in las vegas for mj bizcon and i was
part of his brunch and i mean he's really doing it right you know really great guy guy's
name's erin richard so if you're not friends with him check him out because he's really

(01:24:47):
doing stuff right and if you do come to denver come and uh give me a little heads up and
we can meet up and i'll take you to another private consumption lounge where they have
the cannabis cup and a real a lot of really nice people we just had a a bong-a-thon event
slash def-a-thon there's a large uh deaf community here that consumes and they're a part of that

(01:25:12):
too and really for them that last uh last week and that's cool yeah it's a really cool
community um so you're more than welcome to come visit us and if you're in town that'd
be awesome and uh i'd like what you were saying earlier there before i cut you off if you
could save one person or help one person and i cut you off i'm sorry it's okay if i can

(01:25:38):
i can't save the world but if i can save the world for one person then i've done a good
job today and that's what i'm all about is just trying to empower other people because
people don't know what they don't know as a nurse i didn't know and so if i can educate
other providers and other health care providers to listen to their patient or spend a few

(01:26:01):
minutes with them understanding how they're using cannabis with intention it might just
completely change their relationship with their physician and everybody's afraid to
tell their doctor and there are drug to drug interactions that cannabis is not recommended
for you know if you're on blood thinners you should not be having too much cbd there's

(01:26:24):
definite contraindications and can cbd increase or um work as a blood thinner i believe right
and if you take two of them together facts of the blood thinner medicine so um it's actually
like um oh shoot what's um sometimes i could help with swelling and just keep the blood
from flowing and stopping in one one area right right uh there's just a lot to the plant

(01:26:51):
and we need to empower others to learn about it and do so in a way with credible real facts
and information not just what we think or what we feel but actually you know there's
a book out there it's called the medical cannabis primer one of the my favorite books ever is
by dr ruth fisher and it's broken out in such an amazing way it talks about you know it's

(01:27:18):
got pictures and teaches you about all the different components of the plant this book
was the first book i was able to read since my brain injury and so it really helped connect
those dots for the cannabis and why it was working for my brain injury um and then journaling
that experience and understanding what works and why you know there's lots of digital apps

(01:27:43):
out there but honestly log that stuff on with a pad and paper you know and try and learn
as much as you can about what the components are in that plant and then document what you're
treating and why so knowing what symptoms you're treating not just that i have a brain
injury but the cognitive function the anxiety depression the chronic pain those are the

(01:28:05):
three things i'm treating so when you're using with intention it's a lot easier to determine
what works and why yeah and i like the idea of keeping the journal i don't know if you've
ever heard of the girls over at smoke and science and my bphd riley and uh and they
have a little crew and they are phds one's a neuroscientist and she explains how cbd

(01:28:29):
affects your brain and other ones a plant scientist and uh she talks about making tentures
and topicals and all this stuff but they they talk about keeping a log of what helps them
what does in their dosage and uh they also talk about psilocybin and mushrooms too which
are legal where they're at and legal here and i know for a fact that small microdoses

(01:28:51):
i don't like to take enough to feel the effects of the mushrooms but on small microdoses they
really do help anxiety alcoholism uh people with ptsd and yeah i mean amazing research
being done with tbi and psychedelics yep and um unfortunately for me i'm allergic to any

(01:29:14):
kind of fungi so it makes me not a candidate for psychedelics other than like mdma or something
like that but i'd love to be enrolled in a trial to see if you know mdma potentially
could help me yeah and they have mdma there's mda i've just enlightened on a couple of different

(01:29:35):
ones here in colorado there's a big long list of um things included in the psychedelic bill
that they passed okay and uh colorado progressive and uh it's a good thing it's um showing i
think a lot more states could learn from our system it's not perfect here but it could

(01:29:58):
be learned from and avoid what hasn't worked and focus on what has worked and evolved from
that absolutely and again there's so much stigma surrounding it we just have to normalize
that conversation yeah especially with doctors um my my biggest feat was changing my little

(01:30:21):
sister's mind she's a pediatrician she's three years younger than me and she went to med
school and this and that that and um she has finally come up come open to it in the last
10 years after 30 or 20 years before that of telling her hey it's medicinal it's medicinal
now it's not now it's not getting high and she's tried cvd for her pain and sleep and

(01:30:45):
it does work for her and now she's like you need to go to colorado learn as much as you
can and uh this is one reason i've started the podcast just to educate and help other
people share their stories like yourself and uh say one person at a time one person at
a time i really appreciate your time today and for having me as a guest and if anyone

(01:31:08):
wants to learn more and you can reach me at nickyandtheplant.org or follow me on any social
media platform uh nickyandtheplant spelled out or nicky lolly awesome i highly thank
you for coming on the show and sharing your story i do have seeds available on my website
that uh can be specific to a lot of these terpene profiles that your you have talked

(01:31:34):
about and we spoke about and i one of my goals is just to get them out there cheaply to people
who want to experiment and growing and uh become caregivers wherever it's legal to grow
your own so if you know anybody uh need any help questions uh on cultivating them also
that's what i'm trying to do specialize in as little farmer and so a little farmer.com

(01:31:57):
you can check out some seeds send anybody over if they need any help or any consultation
send them my way and you have a great day thank you for taking the time out of your
long and busy day to to spread the word thank you thank you thanks for tuning in everyone
and enjoy your beautiful day and we'll be back next week enjoy peace coming april 1st

(01:32:23):
and 2nd little farmer will be down at the slv seed exchange that's the san luis valley
seed exchange that will be held at the joyful journey hot springs down near moffitt colorado
there's going to be a lot of seed dealers down there a lot of vegetables herbs flowers
anything you can think of but the main thing is going to be the knowledge spread by all

(01:32:46):
the people that are attending so if you haven't seen it heard about it you can inquire let
me know i'll give you more information if you're following me on instagram you'll find
it i'll have all the seeds that are available on my website little farmer.com and some freebies
so every purchase is going to get freebies with tester seeds hope to see you there.

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Refer the Reefer - Season 2 - Episode 6 - NIkki Lawley and Invisible Injuries

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Refer the Reefer - Season 2 - Episode 6 - NIkki Lawley and Invisible Injuries