May 23, 2025 • 45 mins
The biblical metaphor of the Potter and clay from Jeremiah 18 provides a powerful illustration of God's work in our lives, showing how He reshapes us when we become distorted from His original design.
• God as Potter and humanity as clay symbolizes divine guidance and our need to yield to His shaping
• The marred clay represents how we distort ourselves through choices contrary to God's design
• Spiritual transformation is a gradual process requiring patience and willingness to be molded
• Life's trials are like the kiln's fire (1,500°F), strengthening us through difficulty
• We naturally resist changing our ways, taking the easier path even when we know it's wrong
• Personal testimony shows how God gradually refines our character and behaviors over time
• Even when we're stubborn like ancient Israel, God continually offers the opportunity for redemption
• We have a daily choice between following God's design or our own flawed plans
If you haven't accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, we invite you to open your heart to His guidance and direction. Find a church community that will help edify your spirit and grow your knowledge of who God is.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, welcome back, friends, to another
episode of the Refined in Truthpodcast.
Thanks for tuning in.
Today I'm here with mybeautiful wife, stephanie, and
co-host.
We're going to get into acouple of verses that God put in
our heart today.
We're going to read the verses,but we're just going to.
(00:23):
We want to go deeper into theseverses.
We want to do more like a deepdive and at the same time, just
bring like application, in asimple sense, to our lives and
you know how we can also reflecton them and how we can also
(00:47):
apply it to our personal lives.
So I'm going to have my wiferead it.
It's going to be Jeremiah 18,verse 1 through 10.
So you can go ahead when you'reready.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Amen, in the name of the father, son, the holy spirit
.
Uh, at the potter's house.
This is the word that came tojeremiah from the lord.
Go down to the potter's houseand there I will give you my
message.
So I went down to the potter'shouse and I saw him working at
the well, at the wheel.
But the pot he was shaping fromthe clay was marred in his
(01:27):
hands.
So the potter formed it intoanother pot, shaping it as
seemed best to him.
Then the word of the Lord cameto me.
He said Can I not do with you?
Israel, as this potter does,declares the Lord.
Israel, as the this Potter does, declares the Lord like clay in
(01:49):
the hands of the Potter.
So are you in my hand, israel?
If at any time I announce thata nation or kingdom is to be
uprooted, torn down anddestroyed, and if that nation, I
warned, repents of its evil,then I will relent and not
inflict on it the disaster I hadplanned.
And if, at any other time Iannounced that a nation or
(02:14):
kingdom is to be built up andplanted, and if it does evil in
my sight and does not obey me,then I will reconsider the good
I had intended to do for it.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Amen, awesome, awesome.
Do you want to just pray beforewe start?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Sure, Heavenly Father , we come before you, Father God
, we're here during this podcastto read your word, to take in,
Father God, what you have for uson this very day, Lord, that we
may be able to reflect on it,that we may be able to share the
thoughts that you have placedin our hearts, Father God, the
(02:52):
thoughts that come from you,Father, that we may be able to
share this with our friends hereand they may be able to find a
way to apply it on their dailylives as well.
We thank you able to find a wayto apply it on their daily
lives as well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
We thank you and we ask you to anoint our lips in
Jesus mighty name amen, amen,awesome, awesome.
So, with these verses, guys,you know we're just trying to be
as genuine as possible witheverything you know.
We're not experts here.
We don't know everything thatis there, so the Bible.
We don't know everything thatis there, so the bible.
We don't know everything thatthere is in regards to pottery,
(03:29):
you know, like we did someresearch here and there and
learn about it.
But the same thing is gonnaapply to like everything that we
do on this podcast.
Right, like we want you guys toalso like dive deep into the
Word to the Bible yourselves andread these verses yourselves
and possibly get you know arevelation from God.
(03:50):
And these are things that Godhas put in our heart to bring to
you and to talk about.
But you know we're going tobring our experiences and the
things we've been through andtry to be as genuine as possible
with everything that we do here.
Uh, so you can uh get a betterunderstanding and see it from
(04:11):
like you know how God put it inour heart, or the revelation
that God gave us towards it.
Um, you know this is a very likestrong.
These verses are very strong inthe sense of like uh, are very
strong in the sense of, like youknow, jeremiah, you know, had
to condemn Israel for, basically, you know, going against what
(04:33):
God had told him to do or theway that he had, you know,
directed them to go, and youknow, it didn't.
It doesn't really end well forIsrael and and a lot of times
when people read these, you know, they could feel like they're
getting condemned towards, uh,what they're doing, which, you
know, that's not what we'regoing to talk about today.
(04:53):
Really, it's more about um,that a whole analogy of the
powder and the clay, right, youknow, it's a very beautiful
analogy, um, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
yeah, I'm speaking of the potter and clay.
Um, basically, it's a symbolism, a representation of god being
the potter and us being the clay, and it can help us visualize.
Like like I said in the lastpodcast, it gives a good imagery
(05:27):
of us and our relationship withGod and how, you know, leaning
on him as a potter, as a personwho has the skill, as a person
and higher authority that can doall things we can be molded
(05:47):
into who he created us to be.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Um, as long as you know, we're understanding of of
this, you know it has thatimagery of god being the powder
(06:13):
and us being the, the clay, andhow god, you know, used that to
show jeremiah right um verse,let's see.
In verse four it says you know,let me just start from verse
three, because this I had thisreally kind of impacted me a
(06:36):
little bit, or just thinkingabout it.
So I went down to the potter'shouse and I saw him working on
the wheel but the pot he wasshaping from clay was marred in
his hands.
So I I was curious, I'm like,what does that mean?
Right, because you know I'mgonna run you guys through my
thoughts when I'm like, whatdoes marred mean?
I've never really like heardthat word like that.
(06:56):
I mean I can kind of usecontext clues and say, like
marred, that might be like adamaged pot or something the pot
was he was shaping from theclay was marred in his hands.
So when I looked it up more andthey were talking about how let
me see if I could read it foryou guys the book of where the
(07:20):
pottery's clay is marred, yeah,oh, okay, so one second here.
So it was talking about how thepot is negatively impacted in
some way by its own actions orthe actions of the potter, right
, which, in the case of thepotter being god, he's not gonna
(07:44):
.
Which, in the case of thepotter being God, he's not going
to impact us in a bad way, he'sgoing to try to impact us in a
good way.
But it was referring to more as, like, israel had decided to
(08:12):
bend themselves out of the shapethat God had created for them
or the mold that God wanted forthem.
So, basically, when a potter isputting together a vase or a
cup or any sort of pottery, oncehe starts so I guess it's
called sewing in or shaping ithe can put too much pressure or
not enough pressure and itbasically distorts the shape
that he was going for.
So that's what they meant bywhen they were saying like
marred which.
A lot of times you have a shapein mind you want, which is a
(08:35):
cup, a bowl, whatever, but ifyou don't know what you're doing
, you put too much pressure, youapply it in the wrong spot, you
end up marring the clay and alot of times, you know, we end
up doing that, marring toourselves.
Really, through our actions,through the things that you know
(08:56):
we choose to run away from thatGod has for us, or the things
that God, you know, is trying todirect us, towards us, or the
things that God, you know istrying to direct us towards, and
we jump out of that mold thatGod has made for us, right, but
the potter doesn't really likejust give up on the clay.
(09:18):
There, you know, the potterbasically can start over, you
know.
So the clay as being us.
The analogy, right, so we'rethe clay and god is the potter.
So when he starts to mold us,you know, sometimes he has to to
refine us, he has to pull outimpurities or things that are
(09:41):
happening in our lives that wedon't realize is bad for us, but
we still continue to do.
So that clay is going to haveto get molded one way or another
.
And that's what you know thatanalogy was for, like Israel,
and at the same time I'mapplying to applying it to our
(10:03):
everyday life, to like what wego through, right, you know,
when, before I came toChristianity, right, like I
didn't, really I wasn't a badperson.
I mean you can relate to thistoo, like, oh, you know me
before I was a Christian, but Iwasn't a bad person.
But it doesn't mean that Ididn't have bad habits, it
didn't mean that I didn't dothings that show.
(10:26):
You know that I regret nowdoing or thinking about to some
extent.
Those are some things that youknow that when we are the clay
God has to mold out of us, hehas to mold us into the shape of
what he has in store for us, orwho he wants us to be, you
(10:49):
understand.
So, as the, the vase or the cupis being molded, as we are
being molded to become thechristians that god wants us to
be or the person that God wantsus to be, it's a process, right,
it's a process.
It's not like instantaneously.
(11:15):
Pottery requires, in real life,pottery requires a lot of skill.
The average person, you know,is not a potter and if they are,
you know it takes them, it'staking them time to become a
potter.
It requires skill and time forthe pottery to be done, right,
(11:35):
you know.
If not, it's just consideredclay, it's not considered
pottery, it's considered clayuntil it gets shaped into some
sort of pottery.
We need to be refined andmolded as clay to become pottery
, and that's basically thebiggest thing there that you
(12:02):
know that God is trying to.
You know, reveal to me andreveal to us as we're going
through this, and even you know,just looking back in our life
and the things that we'recurrently going through right
now.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Do you have anything you want to say?
Yeah, I mean um.
It's basically like going backto the verses, where it talks
about the marred um clay.
It's basically the pottertaking out those imperfections
that the clay already has and inthose imperfections that the
potter sees, like the verses say, they would have to uproot and
tear apart, take down, you know,in order for that, that end
(12:48):
product, to become what it needsto become yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
it's not only I guess too, because just because you
become a Christian doesn't meanthat everything is going to
become easier, like your wholelife is going to become perfect,
right, there's always that.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
You know there's always going to be some form of
a process that you go through,you know, um, and in that, in
those process, those differentprocess that you have in your
life, like that's where God, youknow, kind of reveals what he
needs to, and it's up to us totake that and and, like we, we
(13:40):
will never be perfection, right,we're always going to need to
rely on the source, the potterthat that has created us, right,
and you know, through those,through that, all of that, like,
we're able to become better inlife and, you know, seek him and
and rely on him more.
(14:01):
But you know it's a, it's anever-ending kind of like a
never, never-ending cycle.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Like you would still need to depend on that potter,
you would still need to dependon the source yeah, I mean I
just think back, like from mypersonal life, right, and I'm
just being transparent witheveryone right, like and through
all of this that we're doing onthe podcast.
Like you know, when I wasyounger, like what you were, I
mean there was things like whatwould I?
(14:28):
I would drink.
I would go out with my friendsand drink and party.
I didn't ever really do drugsbecause it was never really like
my thing, I was neverinterested in it.
Um, I did have like badrelationships where I didn't
really understand fully like themeaning of love and like um
(14:52):
like being patient and caringfor your spouse, like I didn't
fully understand those thingsbut at the same time, like a lot
of male, um males do in thisday and age, like I, I struggled
with pornography and that wasanother thing that in my youth,
(15:12):
right like impacted me a lot.
Because right like impacted mea lot because it's it's hard to
kind of like live in in thissociety without this you know,
hyper sexualization world thatwe live in and everything is,
you know, sexualized and tv andstores and clothing and and
everything everywhere.
(15:33):
And and basically, like, if Ilook back at everything that God
has brought me personally outof right.
It wasn't like from one day tothe next I, you know, stopped
doing all of those things right.
It took like years.
And even before you and I gottogether, right, um, it had been
(15:53):
seven years before I was likein a relationship with someone.
And you know, I know like youfor you is a little bit
different too but like, Ipersonally chose and I decided
like I don't want to be in arelationship with someone
because I know I'm not ready tocommit to that yet and I'm not
(16:14):
ready to fully like devotemyself to someone, to commit to
that yet, and I'm not ready tofully like devote myself to
someone.
And I know that I'm not readymentally and physically and
everything.
Because I knew what had to, Ihad to be done, but at the same
time, like something in me wasnot letting me.
And um, and I look back rightand I could say, right, when
this all started in my life waswhen I decided to accept Jesus
(16:36):
Christ as my Lord and Savior,right through my friend's church
Ralph, my friend's church andhe had already been talking to
me about God.
But God had, you know, haddifferent encounters with me
personally and I can say thatonce I accepted Christ.
That didn't mean thatnecessarily like I dropped
(16:59):
everything and I was living likea double life or whatever the
case, but little by little hewas refining me, right.
He was pulling out theimpurities in the clay he was
pulling out.
He was molding me, molding theclay, pulling out.
He was molding me, molding theclay.
And I'm not trying to say thatI'm perfect now, because I'm not
(17:20):
, but, um, I've come a long wayfrom where God originally, like,
found me or brought me out of.
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think, um, a lot of times we don't really
understand that.
You know, it's always gonna be,um, there's always gonna be
struggles in life and thingsthat are gonna come and attack
us, right?
And the thing is that when youhave christ, or when you, you
(17:55):
know, accept Christ as your Lordand Savior and you follow the
life of God and try to be morelike Him every day, he brings
peace.
And it makes things easier thanif you don't, because everybody
kind of goes about their lifewhen they don't follow Christ,
thinking that there's anotherproblem around the corner.
(18:19):
And it might be true, there'sanother problem around the
corner, but God is going to helpyou through it and it makes it
easier, it lifts that burden offyour shoulders, because I mean,
even looking at the wholeanalogy of the clay, right, so
the potter is shaping the clay,he's molding it to the vase or
the cup.
Let's just say the clay.
Right, so the potter is shapingthe clay, he's molding it to
(18:39):
the vase or the cup.
Let's just say a cup.
Right?
Once it's done, you know, hehas to let it dry for a little
bit and then, in order for it tobecome pottery, it needs to get
put into the fire right, andit's not necessarily like I was
just reading, it's not like 500degrees, it has to be 1,500
(19:04):
degrees to 1,600 degreesFahrenheit, and that's not like
a regular oven, right, it needsto be they call it, I guess, a
kiln In order for that to becomestrengthened.
So in order for that pottery tobecome durable and strengthened
(19:25):
, it needs to be put through thefire.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Now, if you see that and you see yourself being in
that fire, how do we getstrengthened by that being in
that fire?
How do we get strengthened bythat Like, during that process,
like our desire should be tojust praise and worship the one
(19:51):
who's refining us right, inorder to know, like at the end
of this purification, likeyou're going to be strengthened.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
It's, it's just a matter of you withstanding that
heat, kind of, and well, yeah, Imean if we can relate to the
fire being like the trials oflife, right, so if we can change
the fire or say like okay, likethe clay and the pottery is
going to become strengthened andrefined right once it gets put
in the fire, but like, as we,you know, do the analogy like us
(20:25):
getting put into a fire, it'dbe more us going through, you
know, uh, cancer, uh death inthe family, uh, you know drug,
uh addiction.
You know a lot of these uhtrials that people go through in
life, the things that people gothrough.
That, um, is not necessarilylike an everyday occurrence, but
(20:51):
those are all trials that weget put through, and and it's
not necessarily that god isputting us through those trials,
but um, it's, you know, habitsand things that we've carried on
from generation, generation orfrom our youth yeah, and again,
it's not necessarily to say it'sgoing to be a trial, but also
(21:13):
just the purification aspects ofit.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Like you can be in that fire, right, and you know
things can be silent to anextent, like you may not even be
going through something, butyou still are like pushing and
fighting for something, right.
But God still needs to workinternally.
And in order to do so, likethat purification process still
(21:37):
needs to work internally and inorder to do so, like that
purification process still needsto happen, like you can't just
you can't just walk through lifeand you know the snap of a
finger, expect something to justchange.
Like again, if you're inexpectation for something
different during thatpurification process, like again
(22:00):
, like you, I just imagine it, Iguess, maybe just thinking like
why not worship?
Why not?
why, not praise?
Why not, you know?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
look to the god that is doing this purification
process and providing for youeven still yeah, I mean, some
people might look at thepurification process as a bad
thing, right, but it's notalways a bad thing, because,
even like the clay, right fromclay to pottery, it changes,
(22:37):
like the molecular structure uh,changes the molecular structure
of it, it removes the water ofit and all this stuff, right?
Um, we can't expect things tohave different results if we
keep having this, if we keeptaking the same actions right,
the definition of insanity orwhatever people say, like you
(22:59):
know, expecting differentresults with the same actions.
So, you know, if you wantthings to be different, you need
to do something different, andwhen you're being put through
the fire, it's going to requireto change your actions and your
(23:23):
habits and seek a higher power,because sometimes you're not
even going to be in control ofwhat's happening anymore.
You, you know you've tried andexhausted all your options,
right, like the lady that wasbleeding, right, for all those
years.
You know she had exhausted allher options.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
She visited all these doctors and spent all this
money and she exhausted all heroptions and she had to find a
different option.
And I say the same thing for usand what we go through.
Right, I'm not saying that, um,it's gonna be easy yeah, for
sure I'm saying that, uh, he'sgonna help you through that
(24:09):
refinement process and then, atthe end of it, afterwards,
you're gonna to be stronger.
So I mean like that, saying,right, what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger.
That's how a lot of people lookat life.
Sure, but why is it that we'regoing through this purification
(24:30):
process?
Or why is it that we're goingthrough this trial, this trial,
this fire?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
it might be because, you know, there's something
greater afterwards, at the end,waiting for us that we don't
really really realize yeah, Imean, I'm sure again with the
passage that you know, again,god, time after time, wanted to
remind Israel, like Israel wasnear and dear to his heart and
(24:59):
all he wanted was for them tochange their ways and to not
worship idols, to not, you know,to not cause destruction
amongst themselves.
And constantly he was justreminding them that you know, I
am your God.
And and what did they do?
They continued to disobey, theycontinued to fall in their own
(25:21):
ways and and hurt people.
And you know again, in all ofthat, like he didn't intend for
the destruction to be as is,like he even says that in these
verses, like if you, you know,if you repent, then I won't
inflict all the disaster Iplanned.
(25:42):
But you know again, if you dowhat I, what I say, what I
command, like, then my plan willgo as is.
And you know again, it's justanother example that God gives
us.
And God lets Jeremiah see aswell, as long as we're leaning
(26:05):
onto him and following hisinstruction, things can go
better for us, for the betterfor the better.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, it's unfortunate, though, because a
lot of times, you know from ourupbringings and just our
stubborn ways, we still continueto go back to Looking at things
the way that we've alwayslooked at them, right.
And not, and not like trustingor depending or looking towards
(26:39):
God, because I mean even like inverse 11, right, I know we were
decided, undecided, decidedwhether we should talk or read
it, but it says you know?
Now, therefore, say to thepeople of Judah and those living
in Jerusalem this is what theLord says Look, I am preparing a
disaster for you and devising aplan against you.
(27:00):
So turn from your evil ways,each of you, and reform your
ways and your actions.
But oh, and that was 12, no, in12, it says.
But they will reply it's no use, we will continue with our own
plans.
We will all follow the stubborn.
Continue with our own plans.
We will all follow thestubbornness of our evil hearts.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Right, because, like, I hear what you're saying, but
no.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, exactly, and I don't know why it's so much
easier sometimes to do the wrongthing than to do the right
thing, times to do the wrongthing than to do the right thing
.
You know, I remember one time,uh, I was, uh, I don't remember
if I've told you this storybefore, but I remember one time
I was like I think I was walkingout of a Walgreens or something
(27:52):
and there was like somebodythat walked up to me and they
were asking me for money andthey were like, oh, you know,
tell me a whole story about youknow like why they needed the
money.
And I was like you know, theywere asking me for money for gas
.
They were saying like that theywere stuck in the town and that
they needed, you know, and alot of times when people do that
like I don't always, you know,like agree, or you know like I
try to question and see what itis Like, find out the deeper,
(28:18):
what's going on behind the scene, kind of thing.
And so I told them I was likelisten, you know, let's, I'll
just, I'll, just, if you couldbring your car, like I'll just
fill the gas for you, because Ididn't want to give them the
cash because I didn't want themto like spend it on drugs or
something.
So they brought the.
I guess they were at the gasstation.
So at that point I justbasically like went and, you
(28:39):
know, walked across the streetand paid for the gas and pumped
it into their car.
But it kind of felt wrong doingit, I don't know why, like my
heart was rushing.
It was like rushing, like Ishouldn't be doing this because
they're going to use somethingelse for drugs instead of, like
you know, like something wastelling me, like not to do it.
(29:01):
But then, you know, I wastalking to someone about it
afterwards and like they werelike you know, don't worry about
it.
Like you did something good,like why are you?
You know, like you didsomething good.
You help them.
Whether they're going to useother money for drugs or other
stuff for drugs, you know that'snot in your control.
You know, when you weren't,when they were in front of you
and they asked you for something, you helped them.
(29:22):
You maybe didn't give them thecash for drugs necessarily, but
you gave, you helped them withwhat you could and you didn't,
you know, like, overdo it either.
And and it was just likesometimes, like I, like I was,
you know, I remember that I'mlike man.
You know, like I felt like whatI was doing was wrong, but
necessarily like it wasn't wrong.
(29:44):
It just felt wrong because Ifelt like they were going to do
something else with, you know,the money if I did give them the
money, kind of thing.
But I don't know.
It's sometimes not sometimes.
A lot of times, you know, I'verealized like people always take
(30:06):
the easy way up, the easy wayout, you know, and the easy way
a lot of times is something thatis wrong, something that is
like either morally wrong or andI can say this because, like,
I've experienced a lot of thingsworking in a dealership life
and you know I'm not gonna saytoo much of like where I work,
but I'll say that, working inthe dealership world, I've seen
(30:31):
a lot of people get takenadvantage of, and it's it's not
necessarily like me doing thetaking advantage of, but you
know I was, I would witness.
you know either people um,messing things up on the car on
purpose in order to get that carto come back, or, um, you know
(30:53):
people, people not really likefixing things correctly, or
people trying to sell things topeople that the car didn't
really need, or people not doingwhat they sold on the car, that
they recommended on it, andjust, you know things.
Those are just like a fewthings that I can say that you
(31:16):
know kind of kind of touch onthat subject, because we can a
lot of times we can say that youknow we're going to do what's
right, no matter what.
But when people are, you know,pushed in the corner and they
need to provide for their familyand they need to make money,
(31:39):
they do whatever they need to doin order to get that money.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And they don't, you know, like they don't feel
regret towards it becausethey're doing what needs to be
done in order to provide fortheir family, and whether that
means taking advantage of peopleor not like and I've seen that
too many times, unfortunately.
Yeah, I think, with this whole,with this whole going back to
(32:11):
the uh, did you want to saysomething, or?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
yeah, I mean um, I was trying to look it up, but no
, you're fine kind of what youwere saying, like how people
kind of take the easy way out.
It just reminded me of, um, whatpaul says in romans 7, romans 7
, 7.15.
(32:35):
I do not understand what I do,for what I want to do I do not
do, but what I hate I do.
And it kind of goes back tolike, again, like we, we have
things that we know we ought todo, or you know, yeah, that we
ought to do, and then we don'tdo it because again it costs us
(32:58):
too much.
And then the stuff that comeseasy to us that we may hate also
, you know, we end up doingbecause it's just easier that
way yeah, whether that meanstaking advantage of someone or
not taking advantage of someone.
It doesn't cost us as much andmorally and spiritually it's.
(33:20):
You know it may not be right,but you know our, our flesh,
like our human nature, sometimesjust gears towards that because
again, we're, we're here onthis earth, it's, we're out of
flesh and it's just, it justcomes as is.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
But yeah, I mean, ultimately, god calls us to
change our ways and to look youknow, at those things and and
shift on how we, how we operateright.
And you if you're not aChristian today or if you feel
like you know you've done somuch wrong and so many things
(34:05):
you know to take advantage ofpeople or hurt people or
whatever the case may be youknow there still is an ability
you know is an ability, you knowthere still is a possibility of
redemption.
You know god always has thatdoor open, looking for you know,
or he always has that door openwith open arms, basically
(34:28):
looking for you.
He's been trying to reach outto you or trying to get you to
pay attention to him, because itmight feel right to, or it
might feel easy to do thosethings from the start.
You know, from the get-go, toget money or to you know, do
whatever you need to get done toprovide for your family.
(34:50):
It might feel right takingadvantage of people, but in the
long run, eventually that getsto you and I feel like I could
say that for myself.
Right, because you know, in theautomotive industry, like I was
a mechanic at one point and Isaw and I'm not saying that I
believe in karma and all of thisstuff, because I don't really
(35:11):
believe in karma, but I do knowthat God fights for his people
and I do believe that, you know,god always has the last say.
So I've seen where some peoplewere always taking advantage of
everyone.
Every single time it was like,you know, like like this one guy
(35:34):
.
I'll just say and I'm not goingto mention his name or anything
, but he used to do like a lotof shady work on cars and over
the years, every single time,you know he would do them fast,
he would work on cars fast, hewould get things done.
Everybody loved him because hewas like fast, but that didn't
necessarily mean that the workhe was doing was good.
(35:54):
He was just doing it sloppy,sloppy and, unfortunately, over
the years I saw him, you know,go from you know like an, a
young guy with a full of energy,to like he ended up developing
cancer and he passed away, likein his mid to late 20s, not even
(36:14):
like, I don't even think he hit30.
And you know, I think aboutthat guy a lot and I say man,
like those other things going onin his life too, not
necessarily only the you knowhim doing things wrong and in
the back end, but you know,something like that kind of like
(36:38):
makes you think like, wow, youknow, ultimately he paid for all
those wrong doings he did, youknow, like, not necessarily like
a karma thing, but like youknow, I don't know, I guess, if
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
God got the last, say well regardless.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I don't know.
I guess if that makes sense,like God got the last, say you
know Well regardless.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
We don't know like what his salvation status was.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I don't yeah, because I didn't talk to him at the end
.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
But we do know that, you know again, there's things
that can go wrong in our livesand people that intentionally do
things wrong, wrong in ourlives, and people that
intentionally do things wrong.
And you know again, I don'tbelieve in karma, but I do know
that, like you know, eventuallythings kind of can catch up to
(37:27):
you um some form or another.
You know, not to say I don'tknow one purposely, like you
know.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh, this specifically happened because you did x, y
and z on just number four orwhatever, but we don't know the
end status of his salvation, andyou know I mean, if you really
think about I'm sorry what I wasgonna say, if you really think
about it, though, likeeverything comes down to a, like
everything comes down to achoice.
Yeah, everything comes down to achoice and we could choose to
(37:58):
do what's right or we couldchoose to do what's wrong.
And you know we might choose todo what's wrong because it's the
easier path than to do what'sright.
And that example I could say,like you know, if I broke
something on a car, I could tryto fix it in a hacked up way to
(38:24):
like just kind of get the carback going, or I could, if
something broke I brokesomething on the car or it broke
I can go and talk to thecustomer, say, like you know,
I'm sorry, this'm sorry thisbroke.
Or you know that we broke this,but it's a tough conversation to
have because you know you haveto bring that confrontation to
someone and tell them, like look, this happened that, so it's
(38:46):
easier to try to hide it andcover it up, right, and I think
about, like the whole cain andabel story right, like he kills
his brother, and I know thatsounds horrible, but like he's
trying to like cover it up toGod.
Come on, like God knows, healready knew what, what happened
.
Um, but we're naturally, youknow, and we're naturally like,
(39:10):
instinctively, like stubbornevil.
But God is asking us to be morelike Him.
To you know, try to to be everyday to grab, to reflect every
day on everything that we do andbe more like Him.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And that's why he offers every day.
You know that salvation heoffers every day.
You know that salvation heoffers every day, that
opportunity to say, you know,hey, I'm here.
I'm here with open arms and I'mable to, you know, take care of
your needs.
I'm able to change what youdislike about yourself or what
(39:52):
you feel that needs changing.
You know, and there's neverthat closed period unless you
end up passing and don't takethe opportunity yourself.
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think you know we'regetting close to the end here,
we're going to wrap up.
I do want to say, like I thinkthat you know, God bringing
these verses and this analogy tous really, you know, makes you
look at it in a different sense,because God is not looking to
(40:33):
harm us, he's not looking to dobad to us, but we have a choice.
You know, we have a choicewhether we want to do what God
wants for us or we want to dowhat God doesn't want for us.
Right, and maybe God hasalready a plan for you.
Maybe already God haspre-planned things to succeed
(40:56):
for you in a certain way andwe're running away from that or
we're doing the opposite of that.
And in that sense, you know,he's ultimately going to be the
potter that is going to shape usand form us, and you know,
whether we allow ourselves to beshaped or not, then that's up
(41:19):
to us, because he allows us, youknow, that free will or for
better words.
But you need to really, you know, think about that and say you
know whether today is that daythat you want to change your
life, or you want to become, oryou want to commit To God and To
(41:46):
what he has to offer you, thatpeace of salvation.
Or do you want to just continuein your old ways and expecting
a different outcome, but justcontinuing to do the same thing?
And I feel like that's how Alot of people live their life,
unfortunately.
Ways and expecting a differentoutcome, but just continuing to
do the same thing, and I feellike that's how a lot of people
live their life, unfortunately.
So we're here today, we're justgoing to you know, we want to.
(42:11):
For those of you that haven'taccepted Christ as your Lord and
Savior, we want to open up thatopportunity to bow your head
and close your eyes and sayFather, god, I'm here today with
open arms, seeking for yourguidance, for your direction.
Thank you for all that you aredoing in my life.
Help me to be more like youevery single day.
(42:34):
Help me to find a church and acommunity that is going to help
edify my spirit and help grow myknowledge of you and everything
that you stand for.
Father, in Jesus' name, we pray.
Amen, amen.
Did you want to say anythingbefore we close up?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
No, I think we did well with trying to explain our
thoughts and we just thank eachand every one of you for
listening and supporting us inthis podcast and hope that you
come back for another episode.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, we're trying to do these On a weekly basis For
the moment, since we're home forA few months as we just had a
baby, so we're going to try todo them on a weekly basis and
bring something new for you guys.
We are Currently doing podcastsonly.
We're not doing video.
(43:34):
At some point in the future, wewould like to, but we're not
doing video.
Um, at some point in the futurewe would like to, but we're on
spotify and apple.
We're on just about anyplatform that you can find
podcasts.
We're also on facebook andinstagram.
We we have a different ministryon there, I believe, and it's
just um, it's more of uh,reflecting kind of verse posts
(43:56):
and whatnot.
So, if you found value in whatwe talked about today, find us
on Facebook.
We are Refined in Truth Podcast.
We're on Facebook, on InstagramRefined in Truth and on YouTube
, same thing Refined in Truth.
On YouTube.
It's only audio clips, thoughit's not video clips.
(44:19):
Thank you for taking the timetoday.
God bless you all.
Thank you you.
All right, welcome back, friends, to another
episode of the Refined in Truthpodcast.
Thanks for tuning in.
Today I'm here with mybeautiful wife, stephanie, and
co-host.
We're going to get into acouple of verses that God put in
our heart today.
We're going to read the verses,but we're just going to.
(00:23):
We want to go deeper into theseverses.
We want to do more like a deepdive and at the same time, just
bring like application, in asimple sense, to our lives and
you know how we can also reflecton them and how we can also
(00:47):
apply it to our personal lives.
So I'm going to have my wiferead it.
It's going to be Jeremiah 18,verse 1 through 10.
So you can go ahead when you'reready.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Amen, in the name of the father, son, the holy spirit
.
Uh, at the potter's house.
This is the word that came tojeremiah from the lord.
Go down to the potter's houseand there I will give you my
message.
So I went down to the potter'shouse and I saw him working at
the well, at the wheel.
But the pot he was shaping fromthe clay was marred in his
(01:27):
hands.
So the potter formed it intoanother pot, shaping it as
seemed best to him.
Then the word of the Lord cameto me.
He said Can I not do with you?
Israel, as this potter does,declares the Lord.
Israel, as the this Potter does, declares the Lord like clay in
(01:49):
the hands of the Potter.
So are you in my hand, israel?
If at any time I announce thata nation or kingdom is to be
uprooted, torn down anddestroyed, and if that nation, I
warned, repents of its evil,then I will relent and not
inflict on it the disaster I hadplanned.
And if, at any other time Iannounced that a nation or
(02:14):
kingdom is to be built up andplanted, and if it does evil in
my sight and does not obey me,then I will reconsider the good
I had intended to do for it.
Amen.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Amen, awesome, awesome.
Do you want to just pray beforewe start?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Sure, Heavenly Father , we come before you, Father God
, we're here during this podcastto read your word, to take in,
Father God, what you have for uson this very day, Lord, that we
may be able to reflect on it,that we may be able to share the
thoughts that you have placedin our hearts, Father God, the
(02:52):
thoughts that come from you,Father, that we may be able to
share this with our friends hereand they may be able to find a
way to apply it on their dailylives as well.
We thank you able to find a wayto apply it on their daily
lives as well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
We thank you and we ask you to anoint our lips in
Jesus mighty name amen, amen,awesome, awesome.
So, with these verses, guys,you know we're just trying to be
as genuine as possible witheverything you know.
We're not experts here.
We don't know everything thatis there, so the Bible.
We don't know everything thatis there, so the bible.
We don't know everything thatthere is in regards to pottery,
(03:29):
you know, like we did someresearch here and there and
learn about it.
But the same thing is gonnaapply to like everything that we
do on this podcast.
Right, like we want you guys toalso like dive deep into the
Word to the Bible yourselves andread these verses yourselves
and possibly get you know arevelation from God.
(03:50):
And these are things that Godhas put in our heart to bring to
you and to talk about.
But you know we're going tobring our experiences and the
things we've been through andtry to be as genuine as possible
with everything that we do here.
Uh, so you can uh get a betterunderstanding and see it from
(04:11):
like you know how God put it inour heart, or the revelation
that God gave us towards it.
Um, you know this is a very likestrong.
These verses are very strong inthe sense of like uh, are very
strong in the sense of, like youknow, jeremiah, you know, had
to condemn Israel for, basically, you know, going against what
(04:33):
God had told him to do or theway that he had, you know,
directed them to go, and youknow, it didn't.
It doesn't really end well forIsrael and and a lot of times
when people read these, you know, they could feel like they're
getting condemned towards, uh,what they're doing, which, you
know, that's not what we'regoing to talk about today.
(04:53):
Really, it's more about um,that a whole analogy of the
powder and the clay, right, youknow, it's a very beautiful
analogy, um, what do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
yeah, I'm speaking of the potter and clay.
Um, basically, it's a symbolism, a representation of god being
the potter and us being the clay, and it can help us visualize.
Like like I said in the lastpodcast, it gives a good imagery
(05:27):
of us and our relationship withGod and how, you know, leaning
on him as a potter, as a personwho has the skill, as a person
and higher authority that can doall things we can be molded
(05:47):
into who he created us to be.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Um, as long as you know, we're understanding of of
this, you know it has thatimagery of god being the powder
(06:13):
and us being the, the clay, andhow god, you know, used that to
show jeremiah right um verse,let's see.
In verse four it says you know,let me just start from verse
three, because this I had thisreally kind of impacted me a
(06:36):
little bit, or just thinkingabout it.
So I went down to the potter'shouse and I saw him working on
the wheel but the pot he wasshaping from clay was marred in
his hands.
So I I was curious, I'm like,what does that mean?
Right, because you know I'mgonna run you guys through my
thoughts when I'm like, whatdoes marred mean?
I've never really like heardthat word like that.
(06:56):
I mean I can kind of usecontext clues and say, like
marred, that might be like adamaged pot or something the pot
was he was shaping from theclay was marred in his hands.
So when I looked it up more andthey were talking about how let
me see if I could read it foryou guys the book of where the
(07:20):
pottery's clay is marred, yeah,oh, okay, so one second here.
So it was talking about how thepot is negatively impacted in
some way by its own actions orthe actions of the potter, right
, which, in the case of thepotter being god, he's not gonna
(07:44):
.
Which, in the case of thepotter being God, he's not going
to impact us in a bad way, he'sgoing to try to impact us in a
good way.
But it was referring to more as, like, israel had decided to
(08:12):
bend themselves out of the shapethat God had created for them
or the mold that God wanted forthem.
So, basically, when a potter isputting together a vase or a
cup or any sort of pottery, oncehe starts so I guess it's
called sewing in or shaping ithe can put too much pressure or
not enough pressure and itbasically distorts the shape
that he was going for.
So that's what they meant bywhen they were saying like
marred which.
A lot of times you have a shapein mind you want, which is a
(08:35):
cup, a bowl, whatever, but ifyou don't know what you're doing
, you put too much pressure, youapply it in the wrong spot, you
end up marring the clay and alot of times, you know, we end
up doing that, marring toourselves.
Really, through our actions,through the things that you know
(08:56):
we choose to run away from thatGod has for us, or the things
that God, you know, is trying todirect us, towards us, or the
things that God, you know istrying to direct us towards, and
we jump out of that mold thatGod has made for us, right, but
the potter doesn't really likejust give up on the clay.
(09:18):
There, you know, the potterbasically can start over, you
know.
So the clay as being us.
The analogy, right, so we'rethe clay and god is the potter.
So when he starts to mold us,you know, sometimes he has to to
refine us, he has to pull outimpurities or things that are
(09:41):
happening in our lives that wedon't realize is bad for us, but
we still continue to do.
So that clay is going to haveto get molded one way or another
.
And that's what you know thatanalogy was for, like Israel,
and at the same time I'mapplying to applying it to our
(10:03):
everyday life, to like what wego through, right, you know,
when, before I came toChristianity, right, like I
didn't, really I wasn't a badperson.
I mean you can relate to thistoo, like, oh, you know me
before I was a Christian, but Iwasn't a bad person.
But it doesn't mean that Ididn't have bad habits, it
didn't mean that I didn't dothings that show.
(10:26):
You know that I regret nowdoing or thinking about to some
extent.
Those are some things that youknow that when we are the clay
God has to mold out of us, hehas to mold us into the shape of
what he has in store for us, orwho he wants us to be, you
(10:49):
understand.
So, as the, the vase or the cupis being molded, as we are
being molded to become thechristians that god wants us to
be or the person that God wantsus to be, it's a process, right,
it's a process.
It's not like instantaneously.
(11:15):
Pottery requires, in real life,pottery requires a lot of skill.
The average person, you know,is not a potter and if they are,
you know it takes them, it'staking them time to become a
potter.
It requires skill and time forthe pottery to be done, right,
(11:35):
you know.
If not, it's just consideredclay, it's not considered
pottery, it's considered clayuntil it gets shaped into some
sort of pottery.
We need to be refined andmolded as clay to become pottery
, and that's basically thebiggest thing there that you
(12:02):
know that God is trying to.
You know, reveal to me andreveal to us as we're going
through this, and even you know,just looking back in our life
and the things that we'recurrently going through right
now.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Do you have anything you want to say?
Yeah, I mean um.
It's basically like going backto the verses, where it talks
about the marred um clay.
It's basically the pottertaking out those imperfections
that the clay already has and inthose imperfections that the
potter sees, like the verses say, they would have to uproot and
tear apart, take down, you know,in order for that, that end
(12:48):
product, to become what it needsto become yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
it's not only I guess too, because just because you
become a Christian doesn't meanthat everything is going to
become easier, like your wholelife is going to become perfect,
right, there's always that.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
You know there's always going to be some form of
a process that you go through,you know, um, and in that, in
those process, those differentprocess that you have in your
life, like that's where God, youknow, kind of reveals what he
needs to, and it's up to us totake that and and, like we, we
(13:40):
will never be perfection, right,we're always going to need to
rely on the source, the potterthat that has created us, right,
and you know, through those,through that, all of that, like,
we're able to become better inlife and, you know, seek him and
and rely on him more.
(14:01):
But you know it's a, it's anever-ending kind of like a
never, never-ending cycle.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Like you would still need to depend on that potter,
you would still need to dependon the source yeah, I mean I
just think back, like from mypersonal life, right, and I'm
just being transparent witheveryone right, like and through
all of this that we're doing onthe podcast.
Like you know, when I wasyounger, like what you were, I
mean there was things like whatwould I?
(14:28):
I would drink.
I would go out with my friendsand drink and party.
I didn't ever really do drugsbecause it was never really like
my thing, I was neverinterested in it.
Um, I did have like badrelationships where I didn't
really understand fully like themeaning of love and like um
(14:52):
like being patient and caringfor your spouse, like I didn't
fully understand those thingsbut at the same time, like a lot
of male, um males do in thisday and age, like I, I struggled
with pornography and that wasanother thing that in my youth,
(15:12):
right like impacted me a lot.
Because right like impacted mea lot because it's it's hard to
kind of like live in in thissociety without this you know,
hyper sexualization world thatwe live in and everything is,
you know, sexualized and tv andstores and clothing and and
everything everywhere.
(15:33):
And and basically, like, if Ilook back at everything that God
has brought me personally outof right.
It wasn't like from one day tothe next I, you know, stopped
doing all of those things right.
It took like years.
And even before you and I gottogether, right, um, it had been
(15:53):
seven years before I was likein a relationship with someone.
And you know, I know like youfor you is a little bit
different too but like, Ipersonally chose and I decided
like I don't want to be in arelationship with someone
because I know I'm not ready tocommit to that yet and I'm not
(16:14):
ready to fully like devotemyself to someone, to commit to
that yet, and I'm not ready tofully like devote myself to
someone.
And I know that I'm not readymentally and physically and
everything.
Because I knew what had to, Ihad to be done, but at the same
time, like something in me wasnot letting me.
And um, and I look back rightand I could say, right, when
this all started in my life waswhen I decided to accept Jesus
(16:36):
Christ as my Lord and Savior,right through my friend's church
Ralph, my friend's church andhe had already been talking to
me about God.
But God had, you know, haddifferent encounters with me
personally and I can say thatonce I accepted Christ.
That didn't mean thatnecessarily like I dropped
(16:59):
everything and I was living likea double life or whatever the
case, but little by little hewas refining me, right.
He was pulling out theimpurities in the clay he was
pulling out.
He was molding me, molding theclay, pulling out.
He was molding me, molding theclay.
And I'm not trying to say thatI'm perfect now, because I'm not
(17:20):
, but, um, I've come a long wayfrom where God originally, like,
found me or brought me out of.
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think, um, a lot of times we don't really
understand that.
You know, it's always gonna be,um, there's always gonna be
struggles in life and thingsthat are gonna come and attack
us, right?
And the thing is that when youhave christ, or when you, you
(17:55):
know, accept Christ as your Lordand Savior and you follow the
life of God and try to be morelike Him every day, he brings
peace.
And it makes things easier thanif you don't, because everybody
kind of goes about their lifewhen they don't follow Christ,
thinking that there's anotherproblem around the corner.
(18:19):
And it might be true, there'sanother problem around the
corner, but God is going to helpyou through it and it makes it
easier, it lifts that burden offyour shoulders, because I mean,
even looking at the wholeanalogy of the clay, right, so
the potter is shaping the clay,he's molding it to the vase or
the cup.
Let's just say the clay.
Right, so the potter is shapingthe clay, he's molding it to
(18:39):
the vase or the cup.
Let's just say a cup.
Right?
Once it's done, you know, hehas to let it dry for a little
bit and then, in order for it tobecome pottery, it needs to get
put into the fire right, andit's not necessarily like I was
just reading, it's not like 500degrees, it has to be 1,500
(19:04):
degrees to 1,600 degreesFahrenheit, and that's not like
a regular oven, right, it needsto be they call it, I guess, a
kiln In order for that to becomestrengthened.
So in order for that pottery tobecome durable and strengthened
(19:25):
, it needs to be put through thefire.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Now, if you see that and you see yourself being in
that fire, how do we getstrengthened by that being in
that fire?
How do we get strengthened bythat Like, during that process,
like our desire should be tojust praise and worship the one
(19:51):
who's refining us right, inorder to know, like at the end
of this purification, likeyou're going to be strengthened.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
It's, it's just a matter of you withstanding that
heat, kind of, and well, yeah, Imean if we can relate to the
fire being like the trials oflife, right, so if we can change
the fire or say like okay, likethe clay and the pottery is
going to become strengthened andrefined right once it gets put
in the fire, but like, as we,you know, do the analogy like us
(20:25):
getting put into a fire, it'dbe more us going through, you
know, uh, cancer, uh death inthe family, uh, you know drug,
uh addiction.
You know a lot of these uhtrials that people go through in
life, the things that people gothrough.
That, um, is not necessarilylike an everyday occurrence, but
(20:51):
those are all trials that weget put through, and and it's
not necessarily that god isputting us through those trials,
but um, it's, you know, habitsand things that we've carried on
from generation, generation orfrom our youth yeah, and again,
it's not necessarily to say it'sgoing to be a trial, but also
(21:13):
just the purification aspects ofit.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Like you can be in that fire, right, and you know
things can be silent to anextent, like you may not even be
going through something, butyou still are like pushing and
fighting for something, right.
But God still needs to workinternally.
And in order to do so, likethat purification process still
(21:37):
needs to work internally and inorder to do so, like that
purification process still needsto happen, like you can't just
you can't just walk through lifeand you know the snap of a
finger, expect something to justchange.
Like again, if you're inexpectation for something
different during thatpurification process, like again
(22:00):
, like you, I just imagine it, Iguess, maybe just thinking like
why not worship?
Why not?
why, not praise?
Why not, you know?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
look to the god that is doing this purification
process and providing for youeven still yeah, I mean, some
people might look at thepurification process as a bad
thing, right, but it's notalways a bad thing, because,
even like the clay, right fromclay to pottery, it changes,
(22:37):
like the molecular structure uh,changes the molecular structure
of it, it removes the water ofit and all this stuff, right?
Um, we can't expect things tohave different results if we
keep having this, if we keeptaking the same actions right,
the definition of insanity orwhatever people say, like you
(22:59):
know, expecting differentresults with the same actions.
So, you know, if you wantthings to be different, you need
to do something different, andwhen you're being put through
the fire, it's going to requireto change your actions and your
(23:23):
habits and seek a higher power,because sometimes you're not
even going to be in control ofwhat's happening anymore.
You, you know you've tried andexhausted all your options,
right, like the lady that wasbleeding, right, for all those
years.
You know she had exhausted allher options.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
She visited all these doctors and spent all this
money and she exhausted all heroptions and she had to find a
different option.
And I say the same thing for usand what we go through.
Right, I'm not saying that, um,it's gonna be easy yeah, for
sure I'm saying that, uh, he'sgonna help you through that
(24:09):
refinement process and then, atthe end of it, afterwards,
you're gonna to be stronger.
So I mean like that, saying,right, what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger.
That's how a lot of people lookat life.
Sure, but why is it that we'regoing through this purification
(24:30):
process?
Or why is it that we're goingthrough this trial, this trial,
this fire?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
it might be because, you know, there's something
greater afterwards, at the end,waiting for us that we don't
really really realize yeah, Imean, I'm sure again with the
passage that you know, again,god, time after time, wanted to
remind Israel, like Israel wasnear and dear to his heart and
(24:59):
all he wanted was for them tochange their ways and to not
worship idols, to not, you know,to not cause destruction
amongst themselves.
And constantly he was justreminding them that you know, I
am your God.
And and what did they do?
They continued to disobey, theycontinued to fall in their own
(25:21):
ways and and hurt people.
And you know again, in all ofthat, like he didn't intend for
the destruction to be as is,like he even says that in these
verses, like if you, you know,if you repent, then I won't
inflict all the disaster Iplanned.
(25:42):
But you know again, if you dowhat I, what I say, what I
command, like, then my plan willgo as is.
And you know again, it's justanother example that God gives
us.
And God lets Jeremiah see aswell, as long as we're leaning
(26:05):
onto him and following hisinstruction, things can go
better for us, for the betterfor the better.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, it's unfortunate, though, because a
lot of times, you know from ourupbringings and just our
stubborn ways, we still continueto go back to Looking at things
the way that we've alwayslooked at them, right.
And not, and not like trustingor depending or looking towards
(26:39):
God, because I mean even like inverse 11, right, I know we were
decided, undecided, decidedwhether we should talk or read
it, but it says you know?
Now, therefore, say to thepeople of Judah and those living
in Jerusalem this is what theLord says Look, I am preparing a
disaster for you and devising aplan against you.
(27:00):
So turn from your evil ways,each of you, and reform your
ways and your actions.
But oh, and that was 12, no, in12, it says.
But they will reply it's no use, we will continue with our own
plans.
We will all follow the stubborn.
Continue with our own plans.
We will all follow thestubbornness of our evil hearts.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Right, because, like, I hear what you're saying, but
no.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, exactly, and I don't know why it's so much
easier sometimes to do the wrongthing than to do the right
thing, times to do the wrongthing than to do the right thing
.
You know, I remember one time,uh, I was, uh, I don't remember
if I've told you this storybefore, but I remember one time
I was like I think I was walkingout of a Walgreens or something
(27:52):
and there was like somebodythat walked up to me and they
were asking me for money andthey were like, oh, you know,
tell me a whole story about youknow like why they needed the
money.
And I was like you know, theywere asking me for money for gas
.
They were saying like that theywere stuck in the town and that
they needed, you know, and alot of times when people do that
like I don't always, you know,like agree, or you know like I
try to question and see what itis Like, find out the deeper,
(28:18):
what's going on behind the scene, kind of thing.
And so I told them I was likelisten, you know, let's, I'll
just, I'll, just, if you couldbring your car, like I'll just
fill the gas for you, because Ididn't want to give them the
cash because I didn't want themto like spend it on drugs or
something.
So they brought the.
I guess they were at the gasstation.
So at that point I justbasically like went and, you
(28:39):
know, walked across the streetand paid for the gas and pumped
it into their car.
But it kind of felt wrong doingit, I don't know why, like my
heart was rushing.
It was like rushing, like Ishouldn't be doing this because
they're going to use somethingelse for drugs instead of, like
you know, like something wastelling me, like not to do it.
(29:01):
But then, you know, I wastalking to someone about it
afterwards and like they werelike you know, don't worry about
it.
Like you did something good,like why are you?
You know, like you didsomething good.
You help them.
Whether they're going to useother money for drugs or other
stuff for drugs, you know that'snot in your control.
You know, when you weren't,when they were in front of you
and they asked you for something, you helped them.
(29:22):
You maybe didn't give them thecash for drugs necessarily, but
you gave, you helped them withwhat you could and you didn't,
you know, like, overdo it either.
And and it was just likesometimes, like I, like I was,
you know, I remember that I'mlike man.
You know, like I felt like whatI was doing was wrong, but
necessarily like it wasn't wrong.
(29:44):
It just felt wrong because Ifelt like they were going to do
something else with, you know,the money if I did give them the
money, kind of thing.
But I don't know.
It's sometimes not sometimes.
A lot of times, you know, I'verealized like people always take
(30:06):
the easy way up, the easy wayout, you know, and the easy way
a lot of times is something thatis wrong, something that is
like either morally wrong or andI can say this because, like,
I've experienced a lot of thingsworking in a dealership life
and you know I'm not gonna saytoo much of like where I work,
but I'll say that, working inthe dealership world, I've seen
(30:31):
a lot of people get takenadvantage of, and it's it's not
necessarily like me doing thetaking advantage of, but you
know I was, I would witness.
you know either people um,messing things up on the car on
purpose in order to get that carto come back, or, um, you know
(30:53):
people, people not really likefixing things correctly, or
people trying to sell things topeople that the car didn't
really need, or people not doingwhat they sold on the car, that
they recommended on it, andjust, you know things.
Those are just like a fewthings that I can say that you
(31:16):
know kind of kind of touch onthat subject, because we can a
lot of times we can say that youknow we're going to do what's
right, no matter what.
But when people are, you know,pushed in the corner and they
need to provide for their familyand they need to make money,
(31:39):
they do whatever they need to doin order to get that money.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And they don't, you know, like they don't feel
regret towards it becausethey're doing what needs to be
done in order to provide fortheir family, and whether that
means taking advantage of peopleor not like and I've seen that
too many times, unfortunately.
Yeah, I think, with this whole,with this whole going back to
(32:11):
the uh, did you want to saysomething, or?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
yeah, I mean um, I was trying to look it up, but no
, you're fine kind of what youwere saying, like how people
kind of take the easy way out.
It just reminded me of, um, whatpaul says in romans 7, romans 7
, 7.15.
(32:35):
I do not understand what I do,for what I want to do I do not
do, but what I hate I do.
And it kind of goes back tolike, again, like we, we have
things that we know we ought todo, or you know, yeah, that we
ought to do, and then we don'tdo it because again it costs us
(32:58):
too much.
And then the stuff that comeseasy to us that we may hate also
, you know, we end up doingbecause it's just easier that
way yeah, whether that meanstaking advantage of someone or
not taking advantage of someone.
It doesn't cost us as much andmorally and spiritually it's.
(33:20):
You know it may not be right,but you know our, our flesh,
like our human nature, sometimesjust gears towards that because
again, we're, we're here onthis earth, it's, we're out of
flesh and it's just, it justcomes as is.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
But yeah, I mean, ultimately, god calls us to
change our ways and to look youknow, at those things and and
shift on how we, how we operateright.
And you if you're not aChristian today or if you feel
like you know you've done somuch wrong and so many things
(34:05):
you know to take advantage ofpeople or hurt people or
whatever the case may be youknow there still is an ability
you know is an ability, you knowthere still is a possibility of
redemption.
You know god always has thatdoor open, looking for you know,
or he always has that door openwith open arms, basically
(34:28):
looking for you.
He's been trying to reach outto you or trying to get you to
pay attention to him, because itmight feel right to, or it
might feel easy to do thosethings from the start.
You know, from the get-go, toget money or to you know, do
whatever you need to get done toprovide for your family.
(34:50):
It might feel right takingadvantage of people, but in the
long run, eventually that getsto you and I feel like I could
say that for myself.
Right, because you know, in theautomotive industry, like I was
a mechanic at one point and Isaw and I'm not saying that I
believe in karma and all of thisstuff, because I don't really
(35:11):
believe in karma, but I do knowthat God fights for his people
and I do believe that, you know,god always has the last say.
So I've seen where some peoplewere always taking advantage of
everyone.
Every single time it was like,you know, like like this one guy
(35:34):
.
I'll just say and I'm not goingto mention his name or anything
, but he used to do like a lotof shady work on cars and over
the years, every single time,you know he would do them fast,
he would work on cars fast, hewould get things done.
Everybody loved him because hewas like fast, but that didn't
necessarily mean that the workhe was doing was good.
(35:54):
He was just doing it sloppy,sloppy and, unfortunately, over
the years I saw him, you know,go from you know like an, a
young guy with a full of energy,to like he ended up developing
cancer and he passed away, likein his mid to late 20s, not even
(36:14):
like, I don't even think he hit30.
And you know, I think aboutthat guy a lot and I say man,
like those other things going onin his life too, not
necessarily only the you knowhim doing things wrong and in
the back end, but you know,something like that kind of like
(36:38):
makes you think like, wow, youknow, ultimately he paid for all
those wrong doings he did, youknow, like, not necessarily like
a karma thing, but like youknow, I don't know, I guess, if
that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
God got the last, say well regardless.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I don't know.
I guess if that makes sense,like God got the last, say you
know Well regardless.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
We don't know like what his salvation status was.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I don't yeah, because I didn't talk to him at the end
.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
But we do know that, you know again, there's things
that can go wrong in our livesand people that intentionally do
things wrong, wrong in ourlives, and people that
intentionally do things wrong.
And you know again, I don'tbelieve in karma, but I do know
that, like you know, eventuallythings kind of can catch up to
(37:27):
you um some form or another.
You know, not to say I don'tknow one purposely, like you
know.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh, this specifically happened because you did x, y
and z on just number four orwhatever, but we don't know the
end status of his salvation, andyou know I mean, if you really
think about I'm sorry what I wasgonna say, if you really think
about it, though, likeeverything comes down to a, like
everything comes down to achoice.
Yeah, everything comes down to achoice and we could choose to
(37:58):
do what's right or we couldchoose to do what's wrong.
And you know we might choose todo what's wrong because it's the
easier path than to do what'sright.
And that example I could say,like you know, if I broke
something on a car, I could tryto fix it in a hacked up way to
(38:24):
like just kind of get the carback going, or I could, if
something broke I brokesomething on the car or it broke
I can go and talk to thecustomer, say, like you know,
I'm sorry, this'm sorry thisbroke.
Or you know that we broke this,but it's a tough conversation to
have because you know you haveto bring that confrontation to
someone and tell them, like look, this happened that, so it's
(38:46):
easier to try to hide it andcover it up, right, and I think
about, like the whole cain andabel story right, like he kills
his brother, and I know thatsounds horrible, but like he's
trying to like cover it up toGod.
Come on, like God knows, healready knew what, what happened
.
Um, but we're naturally, youknow, and we're naturally like,
(39:10):
instinctively, like stubbornevil.
But God is asking us to be morelike Him.
To you know, try to to be everyday to grab, to reflect every
day on everything that we do andbe more like Him.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And that's why he offers every day.
You know that salvation heoffers every day.
You know that salvation heoffers every day, that
opportunity to say, you know,hey, I'm here.
I'm here with open arms and I'mable to, you know, take care of
your needs.
I'm able to change what youdislike about yourself or what
(39:52):
you feel that needs changing.
You know, and there's neverthat closed period unless you
end up passing and don't takethe opportunity yourself.
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think you know we'regetting close to the end here,
we're going to wrap up.
I do want to say, like I thinkthat you know, God bringing
these verses and this analogy tous really, you know, makes you
look at it in a different sense,because God is not looking to
(40:33):
harm us, he's not looking to dobad to us, but we have a choice.
You know, we have a choicewhether we want to do what God
wants for us or we want to dowhat God doesn't want for us.
Right, and maybe God hasalready a plan for you.
Maybe already God haspre-planned things to succeed
(40:56):
for you in a certain way andwe're running away from that or
we're doing the opposite of that.
And in that sense, you know,he's ultimately going to be the
potter that is going to shape usand form us, and you know,
whether we allow ourselves to beshaped or not, then that's up
(41:19):
to us, because he allows us, youknow, that free will or for
better words.
But you need to really, you know, think about that and say you
know whether today is that daythat you want to change your
life, or you want to become, oryou want to commit To God and To
(41:46):
what he has to offer you, thatpeace of salvation.
Or do you want to just continuein your old ways and expecting
a different outcome, but justcontinuing to do the same thing?
And I feel like that's how Alot of people live their life,
unfortunately.
Ways and expecting a differentoutcome, but just continuing to
do the same thing, and I feellike that's how a lot of people
live their life, unfortunately.
So we're here today, we're justgoing to you know, we want to.
(42:11):
For those of you that haven'taccepted Christ as your Lord and
Savior, we want to open up thatopportunity to bow your head
and close your eyes and sayFather, god, I'm here today with
open arms, seeking for yourguidance, for your direction.
Thank you for all that you aredoing in my life.
Help me to be more like youevery single day.
(42:34):
Help me to find a church and acommunity that is going to help
edify my spirit and help grow myknowledge of you and everything
that you stand for.
Father, in Jesus' name, we pray.
Amen, amen.
Did you want to say anythingbefore we close up?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
No, I think we did well with trying to explain our
thoughts and we just thank eachand every one of you for
listening and supporting us inthis podcast and hope that you
come back for another episode.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, we're trying to do these On a weekly basis For
the moment, since we're home forA few months as we just had a
baby, so we're going to try todo them on a weekly basis and
bring something new for you guys.
We are Currently doing podcastsonly.
We're not doing video.
(43:34):
At some point in the future, wewould like to, but we're not
doing video.
Um, at some point in the futurewe would like to, but we're on
spotify and apple.
We're on just about anyplatform that you can find
podcasts.
We're also on facebook andinstagram.
We we have a different ministryon there, I believe, and it's
just um, it's more of uh,reflecting kind of verse posts
(43:56):
and whatnot.
So, if you found value in whatwe talked about today, find us
on Facebook.
We are Refined in Truth Podcast.
We're on Facebook, on InstagramRefined in Truth and on YouTube
, same thing Refined in Truth.
On YouTube.
It's only audio clips, thoughit's not video clips.
(44:19):
Thank you for taking the timetoday.
God bless you all.
Thank you you.
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