December 16, 2024 • 43 mins
Grief is a complex journey, especially when it involves the devastating loss of a loved one by suicide. Join us as we sit down with Reshma, a mother of three, who shares her heartfelt story of healing following her husband's tragic death. Through her lens, we explore how mindfulness has been a beacon of hope for her family, providing essential tools for emotional regulation and coping with stress. Reshma's experience serves as a poignant reminder of the power of community and mindfulness, especially in moments of profound sorrow. By fostering an environment of presence and awareness, families can build emotional well-being and resilience, finding strength in shared experiences and mindful practices.
About Reshma:
Follow her on Instagram: @reshmakearney
Reshma Kearney is a widowed mom of three and a certified mindfulness instructor passionate about helping children and families cultivate emotional resilience and mental wellbeing. After losing her husband to suicide in 2022, she turned to the mindfulness practices she had been sharing with her children even before his passing, using them as a lifeline to navigate grief and support their healing. Her website is currently being created so if you want to reach her, please reach her through Instagram.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my dear friend , welcome to the Curious Neuron
podcast.
My name is Cindy Huffington andI am your host.
I am a mom of three fromMontreal, canada, and I have a
PhD in neuroscience.
My goal, through my work hereat Curious Neuron, is to help
you learn how to regulate youremotions, and there are lots of
things that can impact how weregulate our emotions, whether
it's our mental health, whetherit's our past or how we haven't
(00:23):
learned how to cope withemotions and weren't given those
skills.
Maybe we're struggling withstress, and maybe there's
something bigger in our lifethat's going on, but the more
that we can learn to understandourselves and what's happening
around us, the more we can gaincontrol of our emotions.
Every once in a while, I don'tinvite a clinician or a
researcher to the podcast.
I invite a person that hasexperienced something that I
(00:46):
think we all need to hear about,because sometimes there are
stories that we can hear thatallow us to feel seen in our own
story, and maybe there's somepart of this that we can relate
to.
And so in today's episode, I'llbe speaking with Reshma, who's
a mom of three whose husbandcommitted suicide two years ago,
and so what I decided to do forthis conversation is, of course
(01:07):
, I want all of us to hear herstory, but I also want us to
learn about her healing journeyand what she's been doing,
because this was the reason whyI reached out to her.
She's very open and vocal aboutmindfulness and how this has
helped her and her three kids,and I think that we need to
place a little bit more focus onthat for this conversation.
Not saying that the other partisn't important, obviously, but
(01:30):
I think, learning from her andher journey, that we could
somehow take pieces of this andapply this to our lives, seeing
just how important mindfulnessand certain practices were
within her family in order tohelp them heal and help them as
they mourned the loss of theirfather and her husband.
Before I share thatconversation with you, I'd like
(01:50):
to thank the Tannenbaum OpenScience Institute, as well as
the McConnell Foundation.
If it weren't for these twoorganizations, this podcast
would not be here.
I'm just so grateful that openscience is really important to
them, and so that is why Icontinue to share the science.
I'd also like to take a momentto thank you, the listener, for
(02:11):
taking your time to listen tothis episode, to download it,
and, if you haven't done so yet,please take a moment to click
out of this episode.
And if you haven't rated orleft a review for the podcast,
please do this.
It means everything, and if youare enjoying the podcast and
you've been listening to thisfor a while and still haven't
even reviewed or left a ratingrating is the fastest thing you
could do.
Please do that as a Christmasgift for me.
(02:32):
It is that important becausethe funding that comes for this
podcast not money for me, butmoney for the team that allows
me to continue doing this,because if I had to edit all of
this, I would not be able to dothis, and I'm so grateful that
we have Sadie helping out, wehave Claudia, we have Rachel, we
have a team behind CuriousNeuron, and so take a moment to
do that so that we can continueputting this podcast out.
(02:54):
And as the ratings improve, Ialso get to ask more or not more
important, but some biggerpeople that you might want to
hear from, and so take a momentto rate or review the podcast,
and congratulations to Hannah,who shared the podcast inside a
Facebook group, rated thepodcast and left a review and
now has access to the CuriousNeuron membership called the
(03:17):
Reflective Parent Club for threemonths, which is a $79 value,
and so congratulations to you.
I'm so grateful that you didthat, and if you want to win
three months inside ourmembership so that you can get a
peek into what we are learningas parents, as a community that
is growing every single week, weare learning how to regulate
our emotions, manage our stressand how to teach our kids to
(03:39):
regulate their own emotions, andso if you want to have this for
free, make sure that you sendme an email with screenshots of
proof of everything that you'veshared, share it in a Facebook
group, share it in a newsletterat work or an email somewhere,
and help me grow this podcast,and I will, with absolute
pleasure, give you three monthsfor free for a membership, and
(03:59):
you can send me an email at infoat kirstenoncom.
And if you're looking for alittle support in terms of your
well-being, you could downloadour free PDF.
It is 40 pages that help youlook at different aspects of
your life and help you reflecton that, and so you can click
the link in the download in theshow notes to download that.
This week, inside the ReflectiveParent Club, we are going to be
(04:19):
talking about what parentinglooks like around extended
family, and so on Tuesday, wemeet every single Tuesday and we
talk about different topics andreflect on it and discuss some
challenges that we have aroundthat.
And so this Tuesday we're goingto talk about what that looks
like when your child has a bigtantrum or emotions around
family and you feel them judgingand criticizing you.
(04:39):
So we're going to discuss that.
And then next week, since it'sthe holidays on Monday rather
than Tuesday, we're moving thereflection call, the weekly call
that we have, to Monday andit's called the family
reflection call.
So my kids, rather than me, aregoing to be leading the
reflection call and it's goingto be for children, so parents
and their kids could join, andwe're going to be talking about
(05:01):
emotion Meltdown Mountain, whichis back, by the way.
I've brought it back up on thewebsite.
I've put the link in the shownotes.
If Meltdown Mountain issomething that will help you,
come join us.
You get two weeks for free whenyou join the membership, and so
you could join during theholidays and see if this is
something you need to start thenew year on the right foot in
terms of yelling less andfeeling more in control of your
(05:22):
emotions and managing yourstress.
All right, that is all, my dearfriends.
I hope you enjoy myconversation and, like I said,
this might be a more difficultone at the beginning, and so I'm
just warning you that, if youdo struggle with hearing about
suicide, we will talk about it alittle bit at the beginning and
then we'll move into thejourney that she has experienced
in her own life.
(05:42):
Welcome back everyone to thepodcast.
I'm here with Reshma.
Welcome to the Curious Neuronpodcast.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Thank you, cindy, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Thank you so much.
You and I connected online andyou were recently in our
newsletter.
You shared your story, Iintroduced you in the bio and
now I just think it would bereally interesting to hear your
story.
I have had some conversationswith friends in terms of what
have parents spoken about, youknow?
Has this happened to somebodythat they know?
Is this something that you knowthey wouldn't know how to
(06:11):
approach?
I think we're going to look atit from many different ways
today so that we can share yourstory and understand this in
terms of how we can supportsomebody who's going through
this.
So, if you don't mind sharing abit of why we're here and what
we're talking about, yeah, soI'm a mom of three kids.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
My son is 12 years old and my daughters are 10 and
nine and in 2022, we lost myhusband to suicide and at that
time, we had just moved toWashington state and that's
where Forever was supposed tobegin.
Sean had gotten out of the armythat year and we had dreams of
(06:50):
settling down in WashingtonState.
So quickly, all those dreamsand excitement just changed in a
devastating way.
And he was a hardworking,energetic person and our worlds
were turned upside down when hepassed away.
(07:11):
And I remember somebody askingme if I was shocked when he took
his own life, and I respondedwith that I wasn't shocked that
he didn't want to be in theworld anymore.
He had been battling depressionand anxiety for years and I
knew that his struggle was verydeep.
(07:33):
But I was shocked that he gaveup, in a sense, because giving
up just wasn't who he was, andso I imagine he was in a lot of
pain and in a really dark place.
But even to this day, I'llnever really understand.
(07:53):
And when he passed away, Iimmediately went into fight or
flight mode.
I put all my energy into thekids, making them a priority.
Put all my energy into the kids, making them a priority, making
sure they were connected withtherapists and resources, and we
leaned in on mindfulnesspractices that we were fortunate
(08:17):
enough to have had in placebefore Sean passed away.
So things like breath work,nature walks, gratitude
journaling were really naturalfor the kids to do, and they
helped us process the emotionsof grief and stay present and
(08:39):
find peace in that realheaviness of grief.
So, fast forward to a year and ahalf later, the kids and I
moved to California to be nearmy family and I realized that I
wanted to share our story.
And I didn't just want to shareabout Sean and his mental
(09:03):
health challenges.
I wanted to share about howmindfulness and connection
helped me and the kids surviveand start to heal Right.
And so I went back to socialmedia, on Instagram, I started
sharing my story and I wassurprised by the responses I got
(09:28):
.
They were encouraging, warm andkind, and it just made me
believe that my new purpose isto spread hope to people who
might be in a similar situationas we are, or someone who's
facing a different type of lossor different types of challenges
(09:49):
.
So I'm starting to create abusiness.
I'm launching a business ingrief, support and mindfulness,
and it's just been incrediblymeaningful because we've been
able to use what we've beenthrough to help others Right.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Thank you for sharing that with us and I am so sorry
for your loss.
Thank you, you mentioned howyou're focusing on the journey
of mindfulness and I reallyappreciate that you're doing
that, because there's a lot oftalk around mental health, which
we need, but then what aboutafter everything?
You know the grieving part andthe healing journey.
I don't think we talk enoughabout what tools are available
(10:27):
to us in terms of supporting usand our family and our kids.
We don't talk enough about that.
So I really appreciate thatyou're kind of focusing on that.
If we can just touch on alittle bit of the mental health,
because I know that there aredads listening to this.
I know that there are mostlymoms, but lots of dads that
listen to the podcast, and sosometimes you hear that there
weren't any signs, but you saidthat there were definitely not
(10:47):
signs, but that there you cansee the struggle.
So how can a partner try tosupport their husband through a
struggle If they see thatthey're struggling with mental
health?
What can they do in thosemoments?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's something I'm trying to figure out even now.
I talk to men now who arestruggling and who, for some
reason, will confide in me oversocial media, but they won't
talk to their wives.
And same with Sean.
He was an orthopedic surgeon inthe military.
(11:20):
So right there you see, thesebarriers to asking for help
right?
Men in general in those fieldsare discouraged from showing
vulnerability.
They're meant to be strong andresilient and push through.
Challenges me about hischildhood or his current state
(11:49):
of depression.
I would encourage him to go gethelp, but he almost leaned on
me as his therapist and it waslike every year we went through
I called it the downward cycle.
This is Sean's downward cycle.
Every year there was somemoment that really brought him
down and I helped him come outof it and then, in a more calm
(12:10):
state of mind, I would encouragehim to get help.
And he just wouldn't.
He wouldn't even ask colleaguesfor coverage to take a break
from work.
Wow, right.
So yeah, I, I wish I couldanswer that you know what are,
what are the challenges and whatare we as wives supposed to do
(12:31):
or what can we do?
I felt like I did everythingthat I could for him.
I, I was there for him, Istayed, change our family's diet
.
I introduced him to hot yoga.
I would try to encourage him topractice certain mindfulness,
(12:55):
things that the kids and I weredoing.
If I read a book aboutmindfulness or emotions,
depression, anxiety, I wouldhighlight things and send it to
him.
So I feel like I was constantlyyou were supporting him, yeah,
but I guess I wasn't reallytelling him what he needed to
hear or showing him what heneeded to see.
(13:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But we don't know right in those moments.
Yeah, so mindfulness waspresent way before you, like at
the beginning, with your kids.
When did that come into likeyour family's sort of habits?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, during COVID.
So in 2020, the kids were athome, we were homeschooling and
quarantining and I neededsomething to break up our day.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, so I started.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, and you know you homeschool.
Exactly yeah, you homeschool bychoice.
So you're a superwoman, youneed breaks, yeah.
And so I started incorporatingsome movement.
We'd go outside for naturewalks, do nature art, we did
some meditation and I noticed ahuge shift in the energy of our
(14:07):
home, in myself, in the kids,and so I actually went on to get
certified to teach kids yogaand mindfulness.
I love that Then later that yearwe ended up moving from where
we were at the time during thepeak of the pandemic to Georgia
and then getting out of the army.
But so our practices hadstarted way before Sean passed
(14:31):
away.
And in a way I always say Ifeel like the universe prepared
us for this tragedy, because ifwe didn't have these tools, if
my kids didn't have these tools,I don't know where we would be
today, and that bothers me alittle bit, because they need
the tools.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And so what you did is you proactively taught your
child the tools for whatever,obviously not thinking of this,
but you had them, have the righttools.
And I think that, as parents,sometimes we wait for something
(15:09):
to happen and then we say like,well, now you need therapy or
now you need the tools, but weneed to start incorporating
these into our daily practicesbecause they are important for
our children's wellbeing andtheir mental health.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, I agree, and I have the same feeling about
hearing people say kids areresilient.
Because kids are not bornresilient and we don't want them
to learn resilience throughtragedy and loss, because it's
like teaching a kid how tobreathe during a tantrum right,
(15:41):
right, wrong time.
You can't get through to them.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So, after Sean committed suicide, what was it
like in terms of the support orthe?
Was there a lack of support too?
Like?
What was that for you?
Because I could only imagineyou know, as a, as a friend or a
family member, not knowing whatto say or how to support that
person that's going through this.
So what was that for you?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, I I had a lot of support I I'm very fortunate
to have huge families on bothsides.
Being a military family, we'vecollected friendships throughout
all of our moves, so we hadlove and support pouring in.
But when it came to reallyconnecting in a shared way
(16:33):
around the loss, I didn't feelthat.
And it really wasn't until now,having been on social media,
having connected with peoplewho've faced similar losses,
that I realized I really neededthat connection.
Back then I really needed totalk to somebody who had been
(16:56):
through what I'd been through,who knew what I was about to
face moving forward.
And I didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Right, and so that kind of reminds us again in
terms of a society, you know,when there are whether it's loss
of a partner or a child orsomebody significant in your
life that we need these supportgroups, because that's when
you're able to hear fromsomebody or speak with somebody
who's experienced the exact samething as you.
Yeah, exactly, I think that weshould be more mindful of that,
(17:25):
because even when I speak toparents who are struggling with
fertility, there aren't enoughsupport groups for them.
They don't have the supportthat they need.
They will have family membersand friends that will say, like,
if you need me, I'm here, butthey need a little bit more than
that and they need to have aconversation with someone.
Um, yeah, and especially nowwith social media or zoom, I
(17:46):
think that we can create more ofthese to to create those
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Right, I think it's just.
It's such a vulnerable place tobe in that I think for people
vulnerable place to be in that Ithink for people especially
early on in their grief journeysit's difficult to reach out for
help.
And you know, I see that evennow because I created this grief
(18:11):
support and mindfulness programfor the holidays.
I talked to you about it andyou know there's interest, but
nobody has stepped up and saidyes, I want to sign on, and I
don't blame them.
It's so early, especially for awoman who's lost a husband.
It's a really scary time.
I was a stay at home mom forall those years and then my
(18:33):
husband, the primary breadwinner, passes away unexpectedly.
You know you're, you're scaredand so it's.
It's sometimes seems like toomuch of an investment, but it's
just so important, it's sovaluable to connect and get
support.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You share.
You know your journey online,but is it's the people that you
meet?
Are there some that areresistant to kind of speaking
about it?
Are there people that haveexperienced this but don't want
to talk about it?
I thought I mean I'm alone inthis.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I'm a South Asian woman who lost her husband to
suicide.
In this community I felt soalone Once I started sharing my
story.
People did reach out, but theyDM me, so you'll see if I post
something.
I might not have a lot ofengagement, but behind the
scenes I have a lot of peoplereaching out and sharing and I
(19:41):
think that's a first great stepfor them and I always remind
them that they should be reallyproud of themselves for even
reaching out and sharing theirstory.
But it does show you that we'restill not in a place where
people feel comfortable insharing what they're going
through.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, and thank goodness for people like you
that are now like.
These people have a place to.
Doesn't have to be in front ofeverybody in the comments, but
they have a space to go into theDMs and share their story with
you or their journey.
So I'm sure that they are verygrateful for what you've created
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, I hope so, and I say that, you know, this is
one of the benefits of being asmall account and not having a
lot of followers, because I, youknow, I have all the time to
engage one on one with peoplebehind the scenes, and I'm happy
to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And that's what feels good too with the social media
aspect of it.
You know, like when it grows,then it's harder to keep up and
then you're just watching DMspile up and you're not
interacting anymore, you're notengaging in the same way.
You get that personal touch, Ithink, as your account is
growing.
I think it's really importantfor that.
A parent reached out to me andsaid that the holidays are
(20:51):
always the hardest time fortheir mental health and that
this is why why I kind of youknow I'm putting this episode
out earlier than I wanted toduring the holidays, because I
know that this is a hard timefor many people.
Is this the reason why youstarted your group now?
Like this period is, is itstrategic in terms of?
Holidays can be really hard onon our mental health, especially
(21:12):
if we're grieving.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, I, I yeah.
It's strategic, strategic, andI think it came down to timing
as well.
I felt ready now and so it madesense, but I do think the
reason why I created aneight-week program specifically
for healing through the holidaysis because I recently was
thinking back to my firstholiday season, which was only a
(21:37):
couple months after Sean passedaway.
He passed away September 30th2022.
And I just remember that time.
I felt like I was having anouter body experience.
I was living outside of myself,watching, but not present and
not connecting, and I would havebenefited from something like
(22:00):
this where, over eight weeks,you're meeting with somebody who
knows what you've been throughWeekly.
You have loose themes relatedto the holiday and things that
come up Because things that comeup during the holidays for
people who are grieving are, andthings that come up because
things that come up during theholidays for people who are
grieving are.
You know what is it going tofeel like?
How do I manage these emotions?
(22:22):
How do I honor my loved one butyet enjoy the holiday with my
family who's still here?
You know, traditions lookdifferent and that's really hard
to accept for a lot of people,and so I would have benefited
from that kind of support.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, I'm going to put the links to all of that,
everything for those who arelistening.
Everything will be in the shownotes, because I do think it's
important to share this kind ofinformation and to have more of
these, you know, to put it outthere, because there's
definitely.
We know we had an episode onspecifically on military
families and we talked aboutmental health and supporting
their children as well, andmental health is there's this
(23:05):
chimney trail health, I believethey're called and they're
growing and they're trying tosupport, you know, military
families in terms of theirmental health and so on.
So it's definitely somethingthat people need to know exists,
which is your program, and tohave access to it.
So I'll be putting it up onsocial media again and putting
it up with the podcast.
(23:26):
I want to make sure everybodygets that.
So let's make sure we put enoughenergy into the journey now
that you are going through andwe've spoken about mindfulness.
You spoke about gratitude andbreath work.
What does that look like?
You know, in terms of not justdaily habits that you've
instilled in your children, butI've heard that grief is.
You know there's ups and downs,and so does that change what
(23:47):
you do with your family.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
When it comes to mindfulness practice, yeah, you
know, mindfulness is not a onesize fits all.
It's not one size fits all.
It also doesn't just workovernight.
I tell people that our healingis a daily practice.
We have to be mindful andintentional every single day,
(24:10):
and I see that in just my threekids.
I have three kids.
They have the same dad, they'vebeen raised the same, but each
of them responds to differentmindfulness practices
differently.
So my oldest, my 12-year-oldfor him it's more about
reminding him to breathe and todo breath work.
(24:33):
And my middle one she's veryquiet and doesn't share a lot,
so for her it's been writing andjournaling and art.
She likes to.
We do nature art.
We'll go with a bag and pick upthings and then make something,
and that's been really helpfulfor her.
For her.
And then my youngest is veryexpressive, very vocal and a
(24:59):
free spirit, and so for her, ifI start noticing that her light
is dim, I get her outside, youknow, barefoot.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I love it.
I can't do that here inMontreal, but it makes sense in
California.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, she's.
She's my free spirit.
You know, flower child, I knowthat's what she needs when she's
going through a hard time.
Um so, and that realizationcame after trying so many
different things, like I, verysoon into our mindfulness
(25:39):
journey, I learned that my sonis not going to do yoga with us,
but if I sit with him and Iguide his breathing, he'll do
that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Thank you for saying that, because I think that
sometimes, just like anythingwith parenting, whether we're
talking about tantrums ormindfulness or whatever tool it
is I feel that as parents we'relike okay, if this worked for
that person, then let's say thebreathing right, then deep
breathing is going to work forme, it's going to work for my
child and everything's going tobe fine now.
But there's a lot more to it,right, like?
(26:11):
What you're saying is we almosthave to start testing a few
things to see, like, will thiswork with that child?
Maybe not, maybe this will workwith the other child, but
really, taking the time, and thesecond thing I've noticed from
what you just said is you'revery attuned to their.
I guess you could picture it asa battery, right, like when
they're kind of drained and theyneed to refill or recharge that
battery, you seem to be veryconnected to that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, and I thank my mindfulness practice for that,
because I am able to just stopand be quiet and sit with my
feelings and be present.
And if you don't learn how todo that, you won't be able to
really acknowledge your feelings, label them and then learn how
(26:53):
to do that.
You won't be able to reallyacknowledge your feelings, label
them and then learn how tomanage them.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Right, right.
What does that look like?
I think one that a parent mighthave a question around is you
mentioned going out for naturewalks?
I think that's something simplethat we can start with.
Right, we might not know how todo the breath work.
We might not know.
Some parents struggle withjournaling.
They don't know what to write,and so the walk, the nature walk
itself.
What does that look like interms of you doing that with
(27:19):
your daughter, and are youguiding her in terms of what to
think or what to focus on, or isit just about being present in
that moment?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah Well, you can do it in a number of ways.
We've done that, where we justgo outside and walk and notice,
or we go outside and we talk andplay around.
One exercise that I always liketo tell parents to try with
their kids when they're out fora walk is the grounding senses,
(27:50):
five senses activity.
Grounding senses, five sensesactivity.
And it's it's you go out andyou notice five things that you
can see, four things that youcan hear, three things that you
can smell, two things that youcan feel and one thing that you
can taste.
And somebody might want todouble check me on that.
Sometimes I flip them around,but you're going out and you're
(28:12):
paying attention to yoursurroundings and you're being
very aware of where you are andwhat you're doing, and it helps
ground you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love that, and we can do that too, right, not just
for our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Right, and there are variations of it.
You can go outside and, withyour children, choose a color
and then, as you're walking,point out all the things of that
color that you see.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And it just brings your attention back.
It's because you're so.
Maybe mindfulness is a wordthat we hear.
Maybe now I just realized maybethere's somebody listening
saying what really?
What is mindfulness?
We hear about it being presentin the moment.
Is there more to it than beingpresent in the moment?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, I think you need to know what present in the
moment means, and that isgiving 100% of your attention to
your feelings, your thoughtsand your experiences.
So you're thinking about yourmind, your heart, your body and
(29:14):
you're connecting all of thosethings through the use of your
breath.
So focusing on your breathhelps you focus on the inward.
You know, look inward, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And that is something that takes time to do, right,
it takes.
We have to practice that.
Yes, I think in our lives we'rejust so stuck on this autopilot
sometimes that we're not awareEven something as simple as oh,
I hadn't realized that I've beenhungry and it's been three
hours that I was hungry, right,we don't tune into our
sensations.
And it's the same thing withour emotions.
I think that sometimes weeasily want to push it to the
(29:49):
side or suppress it or say like,okay, I'm still angry at
somebody, but I'm just going toforget about it.
We hear about sitting with anemotion.
But what does it really mean tosit with the emotion?
So what are some practices thatyou've done to kind of sit with
that?
And you know, again, this couldapply to any emotion, not just
grief.
But how do you sit with thatemotion?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
A lot of times I will .
When I'm feeling something, Iwill sit quietly, take a few
deep breaths and just do you cando a body scan, where you're
working your way from top tobottom or bottom to top and just
noticing the feelings you havein different parts of your body,
and what that does is that itgives you the time to kind of
(30:32):
calm down and ground yourself,and when you do that, your mind
is so much clearer.
And when your mind is clear,you're able to tap into the
emotions you're feeling.
And what I like to do is I'llfigure out what it is I'm
(30:52):
feeling, but then I'll askmyself questions like well, why
am I feeling that way?
And oh, okay, this is why I'mfeeling that way.
So I'll give you an example.
This is an emotion that nobodywants to admit that.
They have jealousy, right, yeah, right.
So I've noticed that,especially since I've become a
(31:13):
widow, there are a lot ofmoments where I feel jealous.
I look at my friends who stillhave their husbands or family
members who have their dads, andI get jealous.
And the very first time thathappened, I didn't understand
what was happening inside of meand I was crying and I couldn't
(31:33):
quite figure it out.
And that's what I did.
I just paused, looked inwardand then I just figured out that
, oh, it was that dinner I wasat, where I was with this couple
different couples and I noticedthe happiness and the joy and
the talks about the future.
And I didn't have that and itmade me feel jealous and so I
(31:58):
embraced it, I let go of theguilt about it, I allowed that
emotion to pass and then I knew,moving forward, how to
recognize that emotion and whatto say to myself.
Because I'll say to myself okay, reshma, you're jealous because
you don't have this.
(32:19):
You thought you would have thisby now and you don't, and
that's okay, you're jealous.
And then you move forward.
And so imagine if we teach ourkids this that any emotion you
have the good, the bad, the uglyis okay and you are allowed to
(32:40):
have those emotions.
But we want to work on how werespond to those emotions.
Right, that's what's important.
I tell my son all the time he'sgot anger and he gets angry,
and I tell him I'm never goingto tell you not to be angry,
because that is an emotion thatwe all have, but I'm going to
(33:02):
ask you to please learn how torespond to your anger in a
healthy way and a respectful way.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Especially around that age too, right, yeah, you
said he was 12.
That's hard because things arechanging and, like the emotions
are getting bigger and and howdo you deal with that?
And so, having that sort ofemotionally safe space at home
to say like you can express thatemotion?
We're not I'm not telling youto hide that but, like you said,
it has to happen in a healthyway.
That is just better for you,you know, because we don't have
(33:31):
to push it to the side.
I love that you brought upjealousy, because I think that
you're right.
I think many people you know weexperience that and then we
suppress that right, we don'tacknowledge it, we don't even
and it could come out as angerlater on that day or that week
and we don't even know why.
I see the importance ofaddressing that and you
mentioned the speaking toyourself and I think it's really
(33:51):
important to just kind of givethat a little bit more attention
because in the end, it's notsomebody else who's going to
change that emotion.
For you, right, when we learnemotion regulation skills or we
practice mindfulness, it's notthat all those uncomfortable
situations or moments oremotions are going to go away.
You're still going to have allthose emotions, but now you're
(34:11):
noticing it and then you'rehaving the right conversation in
your mind to say hi, welcome.
I don't, you know, maybe now'snot the best time for this
emotion, but I see you, you'rehere and and now I need you.
I know we're going to talkabout this later, maybe, if it's
not the right time or you wantto do, you want to do it now.
Let's go for it.
(34:38):
You know, and you might journal, or that's the way I see it,
because nobody else can do that.
It's us and it's that's thetool that that's so important
for us.
Yeah, I agree.
What have you done?
I guess, now that I justmentioned emotion regulation
skills, but part of alleverything that we're talking
about is is that and thatself-awareness piece, and then
learning how to regulate itthrough tools like mindfulness?
You mentioned anger with yourson.
What are some tools that you'vetaught your children,
(35:00):
especially through grief?
I'm assuming that anger.
They talk about the five stagesof grief.
I believe anger is the firstone.
Was there a lot of anger at thebeginning?
Was there a lot of talk aboutwhat that feels like and how to
cope with that kind of emotionaround that time?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, and you know, Cindy, in the grief space we
don't refer to the stages.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't know the historybehind the five stages theory,
but now people are very vocalabout not referring to five
stages because what that does isit puts a lot of pressure on
people who are grieving becausethey expect to be-.
(35:45):
To grieve a certain way, exactlyRight To follow the steps, yeah
, and I'll tell you frompersonal experience, the
emotions that, because I readthe five stages as well, when I
first lost Sean, and now, twoyears later, I can tell you
those, all the stages are justintertwined like this.
I mean, you know, one day youcan feel sadness, the next you
(36:09):
can feel anger.
I, you know it can.
You can feel all the emotionsat any given time.
And so I would say I still havetimes where I'm angry.
I'm angry that it happened, I'mangry that he chose that, I'm
angry that he didn't get help.
So, in terms of how I addressit with the kids, didn't get
(36:35):
help.
So, in terms of how I addressit with the kids, well, my
oldest, the one who probablyexpresses the most anger, he is
in therapy, and my middle onewas in therapy and graduated,
and my youngest has not been intherapy.
So it's kind of interesting tosee how, within the same family,
we have different experienceswith therapy.
But we do.
(36:56):
We just talk a lot about theanger and you know, I give my
kids a space in our home forthem to express their anger,
even if that means yelling andscreaming or throwing things,
you know, as long as everybody'srespectful and safe.
(37:17):
But I give them that outlet inour house because I know that
when they're outside of our homethey may not have that outlet.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Right, so you know anybody who's listening I really
want and this is why I broughtup anger in particular because I
know that in general that's areally hard emotion for parents
to support in their children.
You know, often anger isdisciplined right, or that's a
behavioral issue and it's notaddressed as an emotion
regulation skill, and so that'swhy I wanted to kind of focus on
(37:49):
that for a few minutes, becausewhat you just said is so
important, right, that the homeis their safe space.
If we don't allow them toexpress their anger in a safe
way, obviously, but I mean, evenas adults, sometimes, right,
like we need to let it out.
Many of us and I've spoken tomy friends, I know that we've
done this but, like you say,like I'm just going to go get
(38:10):
something at the groceries andyou let it out in the car, right
, like you, just you you findyourself a space again that is
safe If you need to scream, ifyou need to do something, um,
because it's it's an outlet, andso if we can provide that for
our children and let them knowthat this is your safe space.
Sometimes you'll be out of thishouse and you won't be able to
do it that way, but here you can.
(38:31):
I think that is such a healthyway to teach them to regulate
that emotion.
We can't magically make itdisappear, right, like they have
to have some sort of outlet.
Thank you for sharing that.
I really think that that'simportant for parents to hear
because, again, if a child isexperiencing grief, we need to.
You know, sometimes I know evensomething as simple as grieving
(38:53):
even a grandparent or a pet orsomething with children Parents
will say I don't want to bringit up, right, like I don't want
to stir the emotions and getthem, you know, to remember.
I just we're going to thinkabout happy thoughts, keep them
happy, yeah, but we avoid theimportance of allowing them that
space to be angry because we'retrying to keep them happy, but
we avoid the importance ofallowing them that space to be
(39:14):
angry because we're trying tokeep them happy, but we can't
always do that.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Right.
One thing I heard early on frompeople was oh, just keep your
kids busy, right, you know.
So it's the same.
And like keep them happy, keepthem busy, don't sit in it.
But I thought, no, no, that isnot what I want to do.
So, even as a family, we openlygrieved together and I allowed
(39:40):
them to see me cry and to see meangry and frustrated, and I
think when I did that, I madethem feel safe in sharing their
emotions with me.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Right, there's research on that.
There's them feel safe insharing their emotions with me.
Right, there's research on that.
There's research around.
When we suppress our emotions,we're not showing our child what
regulating that emotion lookslike, and so expressing it to
them is important.
They have to see that we haveall the same emotions that they
do, and that we're coping withit in the way that we know best
and that that's okay.
Thank you for sharing all that.
(40:14):
I really do think it'simportant for parents to hear
this and so many aspects of whatyou spoke about I think any
parent can apply in their homewhen it comes to mindfulness
starting today, not waiting forsomething to happen, and then
trying to support your child oryour family, doing it now,
because it's a tool that'llsupport them and protect them.
What would be one thing thatyou can hope is a takeaway for a
(40:35):
parent or somebody that islistening to this?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
For parents in particular.
I would want to remind them togive themselves grace.
I think we are really hard onourselves and the world just
keeps moving faster and fasterevery year and we're just trying
to keep up and trying to alwaysportray perfection.
(40:58):
Yes, and we don't have to beperfect.
We just have to be present.
And if that means learningmindfulness now after listening
to this podcast, great.
Or if it's another tool, that'sgood too.
But we have to remember thatour kids are always watching and
(41:20):
they are very much in tune withhow we are feeling and how
we're responding to our emotions, and they mirror that.
So it's really important forourselves to give ourselves
compassion, like we would givethem.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Which is the why is it so hard?
Right, like, when I talk toparents, specifically moms, and
we talk about self-compassion,you know I'll say, well, if this
happened to your friend,whatever it is, what would you
say to them?
And automatically, without anyhesitation, they'll say, well, I
would tell my best friend, youknow, like, it's okay, this
moment will pass, whatever it isright, like they would be very
compassionate and caring andloving.
(41:59):
And then I say, well, what ifthe same thing happened to you?
And they would never be able tosay that to themselves.
And so that piece, again, isanother important one in terms
of self-compassion.
It's something that will notmagically appear tomorrow.
I think we need it's.
There are baby steps towardsthat that can support us.
But it's so important as wellto express that compassion
(42:20):
towards yourself.
And we are in this sort of worldwhere it's perfection, right,
and this is why, through my workas well, with Curious Neuron, I
talk about emotions and kids,but then I talk about the
moments we struggle as a family,and there are not every moment
is perfect, and we have to sharethose hard moments to kind of
help people develop those toolsto move past those challenging
(42:41):
moments that they have.
Yeah, thank you so much forsharing your story with us.
We appreciated having you inthe Curious Neuron newsletter.
Thank you, I know the parentslearned a lot, you know, and the
mindfulness piece I wish wassomething that every family
would take on little steps right, like even just a mindful
shower every day, mindful walkas a family.
I think we see it as somethingthat is more complicated than it
(43:03):
is, but having people like yousharing your journey and
supporting us in learning thesetools, I hope that you continue
growing this in terms ofsupporting parents going through
grief, but also the mindfulnesspiece of helping people develop
the skill.
So thank you for everythingthat you continue growing this
in terms of supporting parentsgoing through grief, but also
the mindfulness piece of helpingpeople develop the skill.
So thank you for everythingthat you do.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Thank you so much for having me.
Hello, my dear friend , welcome to the Curious Neuron
podcast.
My name is Cindy Huffington andI am your host.
I am a mom of three fromMontreal, canada, and I have a
PhD in neuroscience.
My goal, through my work hereat Curious Neuron, is to help
you learn how to regulate youremotions, and there are lots of
things that can impact how weregulate our emotions, whether
it's our mental health, whetherit's our past or how we haven't
(00:23):
learned how to cope withemotions and weren't given those
skills.
Maybe we're struggling withstress, and maybe there's
something bigger in our lifethat's going on, but the more
that we can learn to understandourselves and what's happening
around us, the more we can gaincontrol of our emotions.
Every once in a while, I don'tinvite a clinician or a
researcher to the podcast.
I invite a person that hasexperienced something that I
(00:46):
think we all need to hear about,because sometimes there are
stories that we can hear thatallow us to feel seen in our own
story, and maybe there's somepart of this that we can relate
to.
And so in today's episode, I'llbe speaking with Reshma, who's
a mom of three whose husbandcommitted suicide two years ago,
and so what I decided to do forthis conversation is, of course
(01:07):
, I want all of us to hear herstory, but I also want us to
learn about her healing journeyand what she's been doing,
because this was the reason whyI reached out to her.
She's very open and vocal aboutmindfulness and how this has
helped her and her three kids,and I think that we need to
place a little bit more focus onthat for this conversation.
Not saying that the other partisn't important, obviously, but
(01:30):
I think, learning from her andher journey, that we could
somehow take pieces of this andapply this to our lives, seeing
just how important mindfulnessand certain practices were
within her family in order tohelp them heal and help them as
they mourned the loss of theirfather and her husband.
Before I share thatconversation with you, I'd like
(01:50):
to thank the Tannenbaum OpenScience Institute, as well as
the McConnell Foundation.
If it weren't for these twoorganizations, this podcast
would not be here.
I'm just so grateful that openscience is really important to
them, and so that is why Icontinue to share the science.
I'd also like to take a momentto thank you, the listener, for
(02:11):
taking your time to listen tothis episode, to download it,
and, if you haven't done so yet,please take a moment to click
out of this episode.
And if you haven't rated orleft a review for the podcast,
please do this.
It means everything, and if youare enjoying the podcast and
you've been listening to thisfor a while and still haven't
even reviewed or left a ratingrating is the fastest thing you
could do.
Please do that as a Christmasgift for me.
(02:32):
It is that important becausethe funding that comes for this
podcast not money for me, butmoney for the team that allows
me to continue doing this,because if I had to edit all of
this, I would not be able to dothis, and I'm so grateful that
we have Sadie helping out, wehave Claudia, we have Rachel, we
have a team behind CuriousNeuron, and so take a moment to
do that so that we can continueputting this podcast out.
(02:54):
And as the ratings improve, Ialso get to ask more or not more
important, but some biggerpeople that you might want to
hear from, and so take a momentto rate or review the podcast,
and congratulations to Hannah,who shared the podcast inside a
Facebook group, rated thepodcast and left a review and
now has access to the CuriousNeuron membership called the
(03:17):
Reflective Parent Club for threemonths, which is a $79 value,
and so congratulations to you.
I'm so grateful that you didthat, and if you want to win
three months inside ourmembership so that you can get a
peek into what we are learningas parents, as a community that
is growing every single week, weare learning how to regulate
our emotions, manage our stressand how to teach our kids to
(03:39):
regulate their own emotions, andso if you want to have this for
free, make sure that you sendme an email with screenshots of
proof of everything that you'veshared, share it in a Facebook
group, share it in a newsletterat work or an email somewhere,
and help me grow this podcast,and I will, with absolute
pleasure, give you three monthsfor free for a membership, and
(03:59):
you can send me an email at infoat kirstenoncom.
And if you're looking for alittle support in terms of your
well-being, you could downloadour free PDF.
It is 40 pages that help youlook at different aspects of
your life and help you reflecton that, and so you can click
the link in the download in theshow notes to download that.
This week, inside the ReflectiveParent Club, we are going to be
(04:19):
talking about what parentinglooks like around extended
family, and so on Tuesday, wemeet every single Tuesday and we
talk about different topics andreflect on it and discuss some
challenges that we have aroundthat.
And so this Tuesday we're goingto talk about what that looks
like when your child has a bigtantrum or emotions around
family and you feel them judgingand criticizing you.
(04:39):
So we're going to discuss that.
And then next week, since it'sthe holidays on Monday rather
than Tuesday, we're moving thereflection call, the weekly call
that we have, to Monday andit's called the family
reflection call.
So my kids, rather than me, aregoing to be leading the
reflection call and it's goingto be for children, so parents
and their kids could join, andwe're going to be talking about
(05:01):
emotion Meltdown Mountain, whichis back, by the way.
I've brought it back up on thewebsite.
I've put the link in the shownotes.
If Meltdown Mountain issomething that will help you,
come join us.
You get two weeks for free whenyou join the membership, and so
you could join during theholidays and see if this is
something you need to start thenew year on the right foot in
terms of yelling less andfeeling more in control of your
(05:22):
emotions and managing yourstress.
All right, that is all, my dearfriends.
I hope you enjoy myconversation and, like I said,
this might be a more difficultone at the beginning, and so I'm
just warning you that, if youdo struggle with hearing about
suicide, we will talk about it alittle bit at the beginning and
then we'll move into thejourney that she has experienced
in her own life.
(05:42):
Welcome back everyone to thepodcast.
I'm here with Reshma.
Welcome to the Curious Neuronpodcast.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Thank you, cindy, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Thank you so much.
You and I connected online andyou were recently in our
newsletter.
You shared your story, Iintroduced you in the bio and
now I just think it would bereally interesting to hear your
story.
I have had some conversationswith friends in terms of what
have parents spoken about, youknow?
Has this happened to somebodythat they know?
Is this something that you knowthey wouldn't know how to
(06:11):
approach?
I think we're going to look atit from many different ways
today so that we can share yourstory and understand this in
terms of how we can supportsomebody who's going through
this.
So, if you don't mind sharing abit of why we're here and what
we're talking about, yeah, soI'm a mom of three kids.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
My son is 12 years old and my daughters are 10 and
nine and in 2022, we lost myhusband to suicide and at that
time, we had just moved toWashington state and that's
where Forever was supposed tobegin.
Sean had gotten out of the armythat year and we had dreams of
(06:50):
settling down in WashingtonState.
So quickly, all those dreamsand excitement just changed in a
devastating way.
And he was a hardworking,energetic person and our worlds
were turned upside down when hepassed away.
(07:11):
And I remember somebody askingme if I was shocked when he took
his own life, and I respondedwith that I wasn't shocked that
he didn't want to be in theworld anymore.
He had been battling depressionand anxiety for years and I
knew that his struggle was verydeep.
(07:33):
But I was shocked that he gaveup, in a sense, because giving
up just wasn't who he was, andso I imagine he was in a lot of
pain and in a really dark place.
But even to this day, I'llnever really understand.
(07:53):
And when he passed away, Iimmediately went into fight or
flight mode.
I put all my energy into thekids, making them a priority.
Put all my energy into the kids, making them a priority, making
sure they were connected withtherapists and resources, and we
leaned in on mindfulnesspractices that we were fortunate
(08:17):
enough to have had in placebefore Sean passed away.
So things like breath work,nature walks, gratitude
journaling were really naturalfor the kids to do, and they
helped us process the emotionsof grief and stay present and
(08:39):
find peace in that realheaviness of grief.
So, fast forward to a year and ahalf later, the kids and I
moved to California to be nearmy family and I realized that I
wanted to share our story.
And I didn't just want to shareabout Sean and his mental
(09:03):
health challenges.
I wanted to share about howmindfulness and connection
helped me and the kids surviveand start to heal Right.
And so I went back to socialmedia, on Instagram, I started
sharing my story and I wassurprised by the responses I got
(09:28):
.
They were encouraging, warm andkind, and it just made me
believe that my new purpose isto spread hope to people who
might be in a similar situationas we are, or someone who's
facing a different type of lossor different types of challenges
(09:49):
.
So I'm starting to create abusiness.
I'm launching a business ingrief, support and mindfulness,
and it's just been incrediblymeaningful because we've been
able to use what we've beenthrough to help others Right.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Thank you for sharing that with us and I am so sorry
for your loss.
Thank you, you mentioned howyou're focusing on the journey
of mindfulness and I reallyappreciate that you're doing
that, because there's a lot oftalk around mental health, which
we need, but then what aboutafter everything?
You know the grieving part andthe healing journey.
I don't think we talk enoughabout what tools are available
(10:27):
to us in terms of supporting usand our family and our kids.
We don't talk enough about that.
So I really appreciate thatyou're kind of focusing on that.
If we can just touch on alittle bit of the mental health,
because I know that there aredads listening to this.
I know that there are mostlymoms, but lots of dads that
listen to the podcast, and sosometimes you hear that there
weren't any signs, but you saidthat there were definitely not
(10:47):
signs, but that there you cansee the struggle.
So how can a partner try tosupport their husband through a
struggle If they see thatthey're struggling with mental
health?
What can they do in thosemoments?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
That's something I'm trying to figure out even now.
I talk to men now who arestruggling and who, for some
reason, will confide in me oversocial media, but they won't
talk to their wives.
And same with Sean.
He was an orthopedic surgeon inthe military.
(11:20):
So right there you see, thesebarriers to asking for help
right?
Men in general in those fieldsare discouraged from showing
vulnerability.
They're meant to be strong andresilient and push through.
Challenges me about hischildhood or his current state
(11:49):
of depression.
I would encourage him to go gethelp, but he almost leaned on
me as his therapist and it waslike every year we went through
I called it the downward cycle.
This is Sean's downward cycle.
Every year there was somemoment that really brought him
down and I helped him come outof it and then, in a more calm
(12:10):
state of mind, I would encouragehim to get help.
And he just wouldn't.
He wouldn't even ask colleaguesfor coverage to take a break
from work.
Wow, right.
So yeah, I, I wish I couldanswer that you know what are,
what are the challenges and whatare we as wives supposed to do
(12:31):
or what can we do?
I felt like I did everythingthat I could for him.
I, I was there for him, Istayed, change our family's diet
.
I introduced him to hot yoga.
I would try to encourage him topractice certain mindfulness,
(12:55):
things that the kids and I weredoing.
If I read a book aboutmindfulness or emotions,
depression, anxiety, I wouldhighlight things and send it to
him.
So I feel like I was constantlyyou were supporting him, yeah,
but I guess I wasn't reallytelling him what he needed to
hear or showing him what heneeded to see.
(13:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But we don't know right in those moments.
Yeah, so mindfulness waspresent way before you, like at
the beginning, with your kids.
When did that come into likeyour family's sort of habits?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, during COVID.
So in 2020, the kids were athome, we were homeschooling and
quarantining and I neededsomething to break up our day.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, so I started.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, and you know you homeschool.
Exactly yeah, you homeschool bychoice.
So you're a superwoman, youneed breaks, yeah.
And so I started incorporatingsome movement.
We'd go outside for naturewalks, do nature art, we did
some meditation and I noticed ahuge shift in the energy of our
(14:07):
home, in myself, in the kids,and so I actually went on to get
certified to teach kids yogaand mindfulness.
I love that Then later that yearwe ended up moving from where
we were at the time during thepeak of the pandemic to Georgia
and then getting out of the army.
But so our practices hadstarted way before Sean passed
(14:31):
away.
And in a way I always say Ifeel like the universe prepared
us for this tragedy, because ifwe didn't have these tools, if
my kids didn't have these tools,I don't know where we would be
today, and that bothers me alittle bit, because they need
the tools.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And so what you did is you proactively taught your
child the tools for whatever,obviously not thinking of this,
but you had them, have the righttools.
And I think that, as parents,sometimes we wait for something
(15:09):
to happen and then we say like,well, now you need therapy or
now you need the tools, but weneed to start incorporating
these into our daily practicesbecause they are important for
our children's wellbeing andtheir mental health.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, I agree, and I have the same feeling about
hearing people say kids areresilient.
Because kids are not bornresilient and we don't want them
to learn resilience throughtragedy and loss, because it's
like teaching a kid how tobreathe during a tantrum right,
(15:41):
right, wrong time.
You can't get through to them.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So, after Sean committed suicide, what was it
like in terms of the support orthe?
Was there a lack of support too?
Like?
What was that for you?
Because I could only imagineyou know, as a, as a friend or a
family member, not knowing whatto say or how to support that
person that's going through this.
So what was that for you?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, I I had a lot of support I I'm very fortunate
to have huge families on bothsides.
Being a military family, we'vecollected friendships throughout
all of our moves, so we hadlove and support pouring in.
But when it came to reallyconnecting in a shared way
(16:33):
around the loss, I didn't feelthat.
And it really wasn't until now,having been on social media,
having connected with peoplewho've faced similar losses,
that I realized I really neededthat connection.
Back then I really needed totalk to somebody who had been
(16:56):
through what I'd been through,who knew what I was about to
face moving forward.
And I didn't have that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Right, and so that kind of reminds us again in
terms of a society, you know,when there are whether it's loss
of a partner or a child orsomebody significant in your
life that we need these supportgroups, because that's when
you're able to hear fromsomebody or speak with somebody
who's experienced the exact samething as you.
Yeah, exactly, I think that weshould be more mindful of that,
(17:25):
because even when I speak toparents who are struggling with
fertility, there aren't enoughsupport groups for them.
They don't have the supportthat they need.
They will have family membersand friends that will say, like,
if you need me, I'm here, butthey need a little bit more than
that and they need to have aconversation with someone.
Um, yeah, and especially nowwith social media or zoom, I
(17:46):
think that we can create more ofthese to to create those
opportunities.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Right, I think it's just.
It's such a vulnerable place tobe in that I think for people
vulnerable place to be in that Ithink for people especially
early on in their grief journeysit's difficult to reach out for
help.
And you know, I see that evennow because I created this grief
(18:11):
support and mindfulness programfor the holidays.
I talked to you about it andyou know there's interest, but
nobody has stepped up and saidyes, I want to sign on, and I
don't blame them.
It's so early, especially for awoman who's lost a husband.
It's a really scary time.
I was a stay at home mom forall those years and then my
(18:33):
husband, the primary breadwinner, passes away unexpectedly.
You know you're, you're scaredand so it's.
It's sometimes seems like toomuch of an investment, but it's
just so important, it's sovaluable to connect and get
support.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
You share.
You know your journey online,but is it's the people that you
meet?
Are there some that areresistant to kind of speaking
about it?
Are there people that haveexperienced this but don't want
to talk about it?
I thought I mean I'm alone inthis.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I'm a South Asian woman who lost her husband to
suicide.
In this community I felt soalone Once I started sharing my
story.
People did reach out, but theyDM me, so you'll see if I post
something.
I might not have a lot ofengagement, but behind the
scenes I have a lot of peoplereaching out and sharing and I
(19:41):
think that's a first great stepfor them and I always remind
them that they should be reallyproud of themselves for even
reaching out and sharing theirstory.
But it does show you that we'restill not in a place where
people feel comfortable insharing what they're going
through.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, and thank goodness for people like you
that are now like.
These people have a place to.
Doesn't have to be in front ofeverybody in the comments, but
they have a space to go into theDMs and share their story with
you or their journey.
So I'm sure that they are verygrateful for what you've created
as well.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, I hope so, and I say that, you know, this is
one of the benefits of being asmall account and not having a
lot of followers, because I, youknow, I have all the time to
engage one on one with peoplebehind the scenes, and I'm happy
to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
And that's what feels good too with the social media
aspect of it.
You know, like when it grows,then it's harder to keep up and
then you're just watching DMspile up and you're not
interacting anymore, you're notengaging in the same way.
You get that personal touch, Ithink, as your account is
growing.
I think it's really importantfor that.
A parent reached out to me andsaid that the holidays are
(20:51):
always the hardest time fortheir mental health and that
this is why why I kind of youknow I'm putting this episode
out earlier than I wanted toduring the holidays, because I
know that this is a hard timefor many people.
Is this the reason why youstarted your group now?
Like this period is, is itstrategic in terms of?
Holidays can be really hard onon our mental health, especially
(21:12):
if we're grieving.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, I, I yeah.
It's strategic, strategic, andI think it came down to timing
as well.
I felt ready now and so it madesense, but I do think the
reason why I created aneight-week program specifically
for healing through the holidaysis because I recently was
thinking back to my firstholiday season, which was only a
(21:37):
couple months after Sean passedaway.
He passed away September 30th2022.
And I just remember that time.
I felt like I was having anouter body experience.
I was living outside of myself,watching, but not present and
not connecting, and I would havebenefited from something like
(22:00):
this where, over eight weeks,you're meeting with somebody who
knows what you've been throughWeekly.
You have loose themes relatedto the holiday and things that
come up Because things that comeup during the holidays for
people who are grieving are, andthings that come up because
things that come up during theholidays for people who are
grieving are.
You know what is it going tofeel like?
How do I manage these emotions?
(22:22):
How do I honor my loved one butyet enjoy the holiday with my
family who's still here?
You know, traditions lookdifferent and that's really hard
to accept for a lot of people,and so I would have benefited
from that kind of support.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, I'm going to put the links to all of that,
everything for those who arelistening.
Everything will be in the shownotes, because I do think it's
important to share this kind ofinformation and to have more of
these, you know, to put it outthere, because there's
definitely.
We know we had an episode onspecifically on military
families and we talked aboutmental health and supporting
their children as well, andmental health is there's this
(23:05):
chimney trail health, I believethey're called and they're
growing and they're trying tosupport, you know, military
families in terms of theirmental health and so on.
So it's definitely somethingthat people need to know exists,
which is your program, and tohave access to it.
So I'll be putting it up onsocial media again and putting
it up with the podcast.
(23:26):
I want to make sure everybodygets that.
So let's make sure we put enoughenergy into the journey now
that you are going through andwe've spoken about mindfulness.
You spoke about gratitude andbreath work.
What does that look like?
You know, in terms of not justdaily habits that you've
instilled in your children, butI've heard that grief is.
You know there's ups and downs,and so does that change what
(23:47):
you do with your family.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
When it comes to mindfulness practice, yeah, you
know, mindfulness is not a onesize fits all.
It's not one size fits all.
It also doesn't just workovernight.
I tell people that our healingis a daily practice.
We have to be mindful andintentional every single day,
(24:10):
and I see that in just my threekids.
I have three kids.
They have the same dad, they'vebeen raised the same, but each
of them responds to differentmindfulness practices
differently.
So my oldest, my 12-year-oldfor him it's more about
reminding him to breathe and todo breath work.
(24:33):
And my middle one she's veryquiet and doesn't share a lot,
so for her it's been writing andjournaling and art.
She likes to.
We do nature art.
We'll go with a bag and pick upthings and then make something,
and that's been really helpfulfor her.
For her.
And then my youngest is veryexpressive, very vocal and a
(24:59):
free spirit, and so for her, ifI start noticing that her light
is dim, I get her outside, youknow, barefoot.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I love it.
I can't do that here inMontreal, but it makes sense in
California.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, she's.
She's my free spirit.
You know, flower child, I knowthat's what she needs when she's
going through a hard time.
Um so, and that realizationcame after trying so many
different things, like I, verysoon into our mindfulness
(25:39):
journey, I learned that my sonis not going to do yoga with us,
but if I sit with him and Iguide his breathing, he'll do
that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Thank you for saying that, because I think that
sometimes, just like anythingwith parenting, whether we're
talking about tantrums ormindfulness or whatever tool it
is I feel that as parents we'relike okay, if this worked for
that person, then let's say thebreathing right, then deep
breathing is going to work forme, it's going to work for my
child and everything's going tobe fine now.
But there's a lot more to it,right, like?
(26:11):
What you're saying is we almosthave to start testing a few
things to see, like, will thiswork with that child?
Maybe not, maybe this will workwith the other child, but
really, taking the time, and thesecond thing I've noticed from
what you just said is you'revery attuned to their.
I guess you could picture it asa battery, right, like when
they're kind of drained and theyneed to refill or recharge that
battery, you seem to be veryconnected to that.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, and I thank my mindfulness practice for that,
because I am able to just stopand be quiet and sit with my
feelings and be present.
And if you don't learn how todo that, you won't be able to
really acknowledge your feelings, label them and then learn how
(26:53):
to do that.
You won't be able to reallyacknowledge your feelings, label
them and then learn how tomanage them.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Right, right.
What does that look like?
I think one that a parent mighthave a question around is you
mentioned going out for naturewalks?
I think that's something simplethat we can start with.
Right, we might not know how todo the breath work.
We might not know.
Some parents struggle withjournaling.
They don't know what to write,and so the walk, the nature walk
itself.
What does that look like interms of you doing that with
(27:19):
your daughter, and are youguiding her in terms of what to
think or what to focus on, or isit just about being present in
that moment?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah Well, you can do it in a number of ways.
We've done that, where we justgo outside and walk and notice,
or we go outside and we talk andplay around.
One exercise that I always liketo tell parents to try with
their kids when they're out fora walk is the grounding senses,
(27:50):
five senses activity.
Grounding senses, five sensesactivity.
And it's it's you go out andyou notice five things that you
can see, four things that youcan hear, three things that you
can smell, two things that youcan feel and one thing that you
can taste.
And somebody might want todouble check me on that.
Sometimes I flip them around,but you're going out and you're
(28:12):
paying attention to yoursurroundings and you're being
very aware of where you are andwhat you're doing, and it helps
ground you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love that, and we can do that too, right, not just
for our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Right, and there are variations of it.
You can go outside and, withyour children, choose a color
and then, as you're walking,point out all the things of that
color that you see.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And it just brings your attention back.
It's because you're so.
Maybe mindfulness is a wordthat we hear.
Maybe now I just realized maybethere's somebody listening
saying what really?
What is mindfulness?
We hear about it being presentin the moment.
Is there more to it than beingpresent in the moment?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, I think you need to know what present in the
moment means, and that isgiving 100% of your attention to
your feelings, your thoughtsand your experiences.
So you're thinking about yourmind, your heart, your body and
(29:14):
you're connecting all of thosethings through the use of your
breath.
So focusing on your breathhelps you focus on the inward.
You know, look inward, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And that is something that takes time to do, right,
it takes.
We have to practice that.
Yes, I think in our lives we'rejust so stuck on this autopilot
sometimes that we're not awareEven something as simple as oh,
I hadn't realized that I've beenhungry and it's been three
hours that I was hungry, right,we don't tune into our
sensations.
And it's the same thing withour emotions.
I think that sometimes weeasily want to push it to the
(29:49):
side or suppress it or say like,okay, I'm still angry at
somebody, but I'm just going toforget about it.
We hear about sitting with anemotion.
But what does it really mean tosit with the emotion?
So what are some practices thatyou've done to kind of sit with
that?
And you know, again, this couldapply to any emotion, not just
grief.
But how do you sit with thatemotion?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
A lot of times I will .
When I'm feeling something, Iwill sit quietly, take a few
deep breaths and just do you cando a body scan, where you're
working your way from top tobottom or bottom to top and just
noticing the feelings you havein different parts of your body,
and what that does is that itgives you the time to kind of
(30:32):
calm down and ground yourself,and when you do that, your mind
is so much clearer.
And when your mind is clear,you're able to tap into the
emotions you're feeling.
And what I like to do is I'llfigure out what it is I'm
(30:52):
feeling, but then I'll askmyself questions like well, why
am I feeling that way?
And oh, okay, this is why I'mfeeling that way.
So I'll give you an example.
This is an emotion that nobodywants to admit that.
They have jealousy, right, yeah, right.
So I've noticed that,especially since I've become a
(31:13):
widow, there are a lot ofmoments where I feel jealous.
I look at my friends who stillhave their husbands or family
members who have their dads, andI get jealous.
And the very first time thathappened, I didn't understand
what was happening inside of meand I was crying and I couldn't
(31:33):
quite figure it out.
And that's what I did.
I just paused, looked inwardand then I just figured out that
, oh, it was that dinner I wasat, where I was with this couple
different couples and I noticedthe happiness and the joy and
the talks about the future.
And I didn't have that and itmade me feel jealous and so I
(31:58):
embraced it, I let go of theguilt about it, I allowed that
emotion to pass and then I knew,moving forward, how to
recognize that emotion and whatto say to myself.
Because I'll say to myself okay, reshma, you're jealous because
you don't have this.
(32:19):
You thought you would have thisby now and you don't, and
that's okay, you're jealous.
And then you move forward.
And so imagine if we teach ourkids this that any emotion you
have the good, the bad, the uglyis okay and you are allowed to
(32:40):
have those emotions.
But we want to work on how werespond to those emotions.
Right, that's what's important.
I tell my son all the time he'sgot anger and he gets angry,
and I tell him I'm never goingto tell you not to be angry,
because that is an emotion thatwe all have, but I'm going to
(33:02):
ask you to please learn how torespond to your anger in a
healthy way and a respectful way.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Especially around that age too, right, yeah, you
said he was 12.
That's hard because things arechanging and, like the emotions
are getting bigger and and howdo you deal with that?
And so, having that sort ofemotionally safe space at home
to say like you can express thatemotion?
We're not I'm not telling youto hide that but, like you said,
it has to happen in a healthyway.
That is just better for you,you know, because we don't have
(33:31):
to push it to the side.
I love that you brought upjealousy, because I think that
you're right.
I think many people you know weexperience that and then we
suppress that right, we don'tacknowledge it, we don't even
and it could come out as angerlater on that day or that week
and we don't even know why.
I see the importance ofaddressing that and you
mentioned the speaking toyourself and I think it's really
(33:51):
important to just kind of givethat a little bit more attention
because in the end, it's notsomebody else who's going to
change that emotion.
For you, right, when we learnemotion regulation skills or we
practice mindfulness, it's notthat all those uncomfortable
situations or moments oremotions are going to go away.
You're still going to have allthose emotions, but now you're
(34:11):
noticing it and then you'rehaving the right conversation in
your mind to say hi, welcome.
I don't, you know, maybe now'snot the best time for this
emotion, but I see you, you'rehere and and now I need you.
I know we're going to talkabout this later, maybe, if it's
not the right time or you wantto do, you want to do it now.
Let's go for it.
(34:38):
You know, and you might journal, or that's the way I see it,
because nobody else can do that.
It's us and it's that's thetool that that's so important
for us.
Yeah, I agree.
What have you done?
I guess, now that I justmentioned emotion regulation
skills, but part of alleverything that we're talking
about is is that and thatself-awareness piece, and then
learning how to regulate itthrough tools like mindfulness?
You mentioned anger with yourson.
What are some tools that you'vetaught your children,
(35:00):
especially through grief?
I'm assuming that anger.
They talk about the five stagesof grief.
I believe anger is the firstone.
Was there a lot of anger at thebeginning?
Was there a lot of talk aboutwhat that feels like and how to
cope with that kind of emotionaround that time?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, and you know, Cindy, in the grief space we
don't refer to the stages.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, yeah.
So I don't know the historybehind the five stages theory,
but now people are very vocalabout not referring to five
stages because what that does isit puts a lot of pressure on
people who are grieving becausethey expect to be-.
(35:45):
To grieve a certain way, exactlyRight To follow the steps, yeah
, and I'll tell you frompersonal experience, the
emotions that, because I readthe five stages as well, when I
first lost Sean, and now, twoyears later, I can tell you
those, all the stages are justintertwined like this.
I mean, you know, one day youcan feel sadness, the next you
(36:09):
can feel anger.
I, you know it can.
You can feel all the emotionsat any given time.
And so I would say I still havetimes where I'm angry.
I'm angry that it happened, I'mangry that he chose that, I'm
angry that he didn't get help.
So, in terms of how I addressit with the kids, didn't get
(36:35):
help.
So, in terms of how I addressit with the kids, well, my
oldest, the one who probablyexpresses the most anger, he is
in therapy, and my middle onewas in therapy and graduated,
and my youngest has not been intherapy.
So it's kind of interesting tosee how, within the same family,
we have different experienceswith therapy.
But we do.
(36:56):
We just talk a lot about theanger and you know, I give my
kids a space in our home forthem to express their anger,
even if that means yelling andscreaming or throwing things,
you know, as long as everybody'srespectful and safe.
(37:17):
But I give them that outlet inour house because I know that
when they're outside of our homethey may not have that outlet.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Right, so you know anybody who's listening I really
want and this is why I broughtup anger in particular because I
know that in general that's areally hard emotion for parents
to support in their children.
You know, often anger isdisciplined right, or that's a
behavioral issue and it's notaddressed as an emotion
regulation skill, and so that'swhy I wanted to kind of focus on
(37:49):
that for a few minutes, becausewhat you just said is so
important, right, that the homeis their safe space.
If we don't allow them toexpress their anger in a safe
way, obviously, but I mean, evenas adults, sometimes, right,
like we need to let it out.
Many of us and I've spoken tomy friends, I know that we've
done this but, like you say,like I'm just going to go get
(38:10):
something at the groceries andyou let it out in the car, right
, like you, just you you findyourself a space again that is
safe If you need to scream, ifyou need to do something, um,
because it's it's an outlet, andso if we can provide that for
our children and let them knowthat this is your safe space.
Sometimes you'll be out of thishouse and you won't be able to
do it that way, but here you can.
(38:31):
I think that is such a healthyway to teach them to regulate
that emotion.
We can't magically make itdisappear, right, like they have
to have some sort of outlet.
Thank you for sharing that.
I really think that that'simportant for parents to hear
because, again, if a child isexperiencing grief, we need to.
You know, sometimes I know evensomething as simple as grieving
(38:53):
even a grandparent or a pet orsomething with children Parents
will say I don't want to bringit up, right, like I don't want
to stir the emotions and getthem, you know, to remember.
I just we're going to thinkabout happy thoughts, keep them
happy, yeah, but we avoid theimportance of allowing them that
space to be angry because we'retrying to keep them happy, but
we avoid the importance ofallowing them that space to be
(39:14):
angry because we're trying tokeep them happy, but we can't
always do that.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Right.
One thing I heard early on frompeople was oh, just keep your
kids busy, right, you know.
So it's the same.
And like keep them happy, keepthem busy, don't sit in it.
But I thought, no, no, that isnot what I want to do.
So, even as a family, we openlygrieved together and I allowed
(39:40):
them to see me cry and to see meangry and frustrated, and I
think when I did that, I madethem feel safe in sharing their
emotions with me.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Right, there's research on that.
There's them feel safe insharing their emotions with me.
Right, there's research on that.
There's research around.
When we suppress our emotions,we're not showing our child what
regulating that emotion lookslike, and so expressing it to
them is important.
They have to see that we haveall the same emotions that they
do, and that we're coping withit in the way that we know best
and that that's okay.
Thank you for sharing all that.
(40:14):
I really do think it'simportant for parents to hear
this and so many aspects of whatyou spoke about I think any
parent can apply in their homewhen it comes to mindfulness
starting today, not waiting forsomething to happen, and then
trying to support your child oryour family, doing it now,
because it's a tool that'llsupport them and protect them.
What would be one thing thatyou can hope is a takeaway for a
(40:35):
parent or somebody that islistening to this?
Speaker 2 (40:37):
For parents in particular.
I would want to remind them togive themselves grace.
I think we are really hard onourselves and the world just
keeps moving faster and fasterevery year and we're just trying
to keep up and trying to alwaysportray perfection.
(40:58):
Yes, and we don't have to beperfect.
We just have to be present.
And if that means learningmindfulness now after listening
to this podcast, great.
Or if it's another tool, that'sgood too.
But we have to remember thatour kids are always watching and
(41:20):
they are very much in tune withhow we are feeling and how
we're responding to our emotions, and they mirror that.
So it's really important forourselves to give ourselves
compassion, like we would givethem.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Which is the why is it so hard?
Right, like, when I talk toparents, specifically moms, and
we talk about self-compassion,you know I'll say, well, if this
happened to your friend,whatever it is, what would you
say to them?
And automatically, without anyhesitation, they'll say, well, I
would tell my best friend, youknow, like, it's okay, this
moment will pass, whatever it isright, like they would be very
compassionate and caring andloving.
(41:59):
And then I say, well, what ifthe same thing happened to you?
And they would never be able tosay that to themselves.
And so that piece, again, isanother important one in terms
of self-compassion.
It's something that will notmagically appear tomorrow.
I think we need it's.
There are baby steps towardsthat that can support us.
But it's so important as wellto express that compassion
(42:20):
towards yourself.
And we are in this sort of worldwhere it's perfection, right,
and this is why, through my workas well, with Curious Neuron, I
talk about emotions and kids,but then I talk about the
moments we struggle as a family,and there are not every moment
is perfect, and we have to sharethose hard moments to kind of
help people develop those toolsto move past those challenging
(42:41):
moments that they have.
Yeah, thank you so much forsharing your story with us.
We appreciated having you inthe Curious Neuron newsletter.
Thank you, I know the parentslearned a lot, you know, and the
mindfulness piece I wish wassomething that every family
would take on little steps right, like even just a mindful
shower every day, mindful walkas a family.
I think we see it as somethingthat is more complicated than it
(43:03):
is, but having people like yousharing your journey and
supporting us in learning thesetools, I hope that you continue
growing this in terms ofsupporting parents going through
grief, but also the mindfulnesspiece of helping people develop
the skill.
So thank you for everythingthat you continue growing this
in terms of supporting parentsgoing through grief, but also
the mindfulness piece of helpingpeople develop the skill.
So thank you for everythingthat you do.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Thank you so much for having me.
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