Setting Boundaries and Holding Space for Teenagers' Emotions with Kirsten Cobabe

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my dear friend , welcome back to another
episode of the Curious Neuronpodcast.
My name is Cindy Hevington andI am your host.
In today's episode, we're goingto be listening to a
conversation that leads to usthinking about how we want to
build this relationship we havewith our child, who will one day
become a teenager, and so ifyou have a child who's already a

(00:22):
teenager, then this episode isdefinitely for you.
If you don't have a child as ateenager, you still want to
listen to this, because we areplanting the seeds today that
will build that strongrelationship with their child
later, and having this in mind,I think, allows us to do the
work now, and so I was reallyexcited to bring in our guest,
because I have been followingKirsten Kobabe online on social

(00:45):
media and I love what she sharesin terms of how to build a
strong relationship and how tobe more connected and attuned to
our children, whether or notthey are, regardless of their
age, right?
So whether they're two yearsold or 12 years old or 16 years
old, they still need us and theystill need to feel seen, which
is very much aligned with thework that I share here at

(01:07):
Curious Neuron, and so, like Isaid, even if you have a very
young child, I still encourageyou to listen to this, because
it is helping us plant the seedsto that healthy, nurturing,
connected relationship that wewant to have with our child
today and tomorrow.
Before we move forward withtoday's guest, I'd like to thank
the Tannenbaum Open ScienceInstitute as well as the

(01:28):
McConnell Foundation forsupporting the Cures Neuron
podcast.
Without these two amazingorganizations that believe in
the work that we are doing hereat Cures Neuron, which is
sharing the science with parentsin order to support your
well-being and your child'sdevelopment, then this podcast
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This podcast would not bepossible without you as well.
So thank you to the listeners,to all the listeners from around

(01:51):
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Make sure you have pressed onthat subscribe button, because
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(02:13):
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(02:57):
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(03:18):
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Am I respecting my time?
I think that this reflectionprompt is such an important one
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(03:39):
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So if you enjoy listening tothe podcast, the entire
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(04:01):
record audios around thesereflection prompts so that if
you're out for a walk, you canlisten to a little 10-minute
audio and start thinking about.
You know, like last week we werethinking about or reflecting on
whether we have someunrealistic expectations for our
children, and so you take thesereflection prompts that I
create and you get to listen toit, you get to write about it

(04:22):
and journal about it, and I helpyou notice what you need to
notice within your home and yourlife and when it comes to
personal development orparenting or relationships.
We cover all of that within themembership and you get the
support from me, because we meetevery single Tuesday and we
talk about what you'rereflecting on and how you can

(04:44):
work on this and what you'venoticed and what you might be
struggling with.
Last week, there were someparents that said, okay, I'm
struggling with this with mychild who's having big emotions
around, for example, pianolessons.
But in the end we realized thatit was their mindset and their
negative self-talk.
Right.
So by reflecting together as agroup and getting the guidance

(05:04):
you need from me, then you canget to the answers that you need
and move forward in becomingthat calm and mindful parent and
parenting the way that you'vealways wanted to, with the
support from a community andfrom me.
And so, if you want to takeadvantage of our launch
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You can get 20% off a full year, which brings it down to $18

(05:26):
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Or if you just want to test itout for a month, you can get
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And also, if you're like, I'mstill not sure about this, cindy
, then download our free eightweek challenge.
You will see the new challengeevery single Tuesday, which is
the reflective prompt that wetalk about within the membership

(05:46):
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So if you see these eight weeksand you're like, yeah, I need
support on this, then join themembership and don't miss our
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And then in October we are goingto have Stephanie Harrison,
which was one of our guests afew weeks ago, who is the author

(06:09):
of the New Happy.
She is our Q&A expert withinthe membership, so if you want
to ask your questions yourself,you need to be part of the Cures
Non membership called theReflective Parent Club, all
right, so our guest today isKirsten Kobabe, and she is a
former therapist turned coachteen whisperer as she loves to
call herself, and she truly is.
She's an artist and shespecializes in supporting

(06:31):
families to navigate the wavesof adolescence.
For over two decades, she hasguided parents in learning how
to listen to and talk with theirteens.
She engages parents in personalreflection, embracing their
evolving role, understanding theteen brain and restoring
harmony in the home, which iswhat we all want when we have

(06:51):
teenagers.
In recognizing this uniquestage of development, her hope
is to bridge the widening gapbetween parents and their
children, creating conscious,stronger bonds.
Through passionate guidance,intentional strategies and
tailored techniques, kirstenempowers families to pilot these
pivotal years with deeperawareness.

(07:12):
I had such an amazingconversation with her and, like
I said, although the focus isaround teenagers, I think this
applies to parents with anychild of any age, and not even
just parents.
If you work with teenagers, soif you know somebody or if you
work at a school, take thisepisode and share it within your
community.
Share it with teachers, shareit with you know counselors that

(07:35):
work with teenagers.
We all need to hear whatKirsten has to say.
What an amazing episode.
I hope you enjoy this episodeas much as I did.
I'll see you on the other sideand welcome back everyone and
Kirsten.
Welcome to the Kirsten RohnPodcast.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Cindy, I'm so happy to be here this is.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
I believe you are the first official expert that we
have on board here, with KirstenRohn talking about teens, and
the reason why is because youknow I've been doing this for a
few years now, and now you knowour children are getting older,
including mine.
Mine are now five, seven andnine and we're surrounded by
teenagers in our home.
You know from my husband'sfamily, and I do think we need

(08:14):
to have this conversationbecause lots of parents are
wondering OK, school year isstarting, I have a teen, I have
a lot of worries and a lot ofquestions, and so I want to
address a lot of those with you.
Can you first explain a bit ofyour background?
I did in the bio at thebeginning, but how did you get
into this sort of coaching now,supporting parents this way?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I was so lucky to find this work, actually as a
teenager that's when I startedmentoring parents of teenagers.
Wow, and I've always yeah, yeah, I was an older teenager, but
still I was it was wonderful andI'd always worked with kids.
And when I just have thisnatural ability to kind of
understand what's beyond andbeneath the behavior and and see
kind of through it all, andthat's always been very
interesting to me because Ivalue connection and

(08:59):
authenticity so much.
So I was so lucky to find thiswork, the young and feel really
purposeful and connected in ameaningful way.
I used to work as a therapist.
I've worked in all the settingsas a social worker, which I was
trained in, and now I justfocus solely on coaching, which,
of course, is similar, but it'salso very different.
For me, the work is very similarto how I worked as a therapist.

(09:22):
I was actually never very muchinto the diagnosing aspect or
any of that, much moreinterested in the relationship.
I truly believe that that is,that connection is the key to
meaningful change and growth andall of that, just that human
connection.
So I, yeah, I just feel verylucky to still be in this work

(09:44):
and, of course, there's agrowing need to understand
teenagers and how to trulysupport and guide them as they
move towards young adulthood,and it can be a very challenging
time for some parents, becauseyour role is shifting right and
you're probably starting to seesome of that, right.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Would you agree that maybe as a society and as
parents, we need to kind ofshift our mindset when we come
into those teenage years withour kids or, you know, maybe
undo some patterns that we hadwhen she might be having or the
ways that her parents aresupporting her?
And it was nothing that Iexpected.
She spoke about family dinnersand she said they actually mean

(10:32):
a lot to me and I love that.
I'm one of the very few peoplein my class or in my group of
friends that has daily familydinners and I look forward to
that.
And she said that some of herfriends say I wish I had that.
And then it made me think, wow,that's not what I was expecting
from a teen.
I was like thinking you know, Idon't want to be with my
parents, so is it our mindset?
Are we going into this thinking, here we go, here come the

(10:53):
teenage years.
They won't want to be with me,they won't want to know anything
about me.
Do we need to shift?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
that.
I think that that way ofthinking often often comes from
maybe what we experiencedourselves.
Maybe we didn't want to tellour parents anything, maybe we
really didn't want to spend timewith them and maybe that wasn't
because we were teenagers butbecause of the way we were being
treated at that stage and age.
Right, because from what I knowfrom all of the teens in my
life for now, over 20 years,almost 25 years they totally

(11:21):
want to spend time with theirparents, not as much time, not
in the same way.
What they don't want is thatlecturing or to be seen through
that negative lens, becausethat's what they're picking up
on, and I would guess that thisperson you were talking to feels
seen and understood by theirparents, so that makes that
dinner enjoyable rather thanpainful or challenging or

(11:44):
anything that just wouldn'tsupport their growth at this
stage.
So, yeah, it's absolutely ourmindset, our lens.
They're evolving.
We need to evolve too.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yes, I love that and you are right.
She did say that on the nightswhen you know she had some exams
coming up or you know herparents had questions around her
sports and how she's performing, that it felt overwhelming and
she said, you know, she thinksthat that was like the key to it
, that she didn't want to sit atdinner and be drilled and be
interviewed and questioned andthat felt uncomfortable for her.
And I wrote it down because Iwanted to remember saying this

(12:14):
to you.
But she said I want my parentsto trust me and know that I will
make mistakes.
I need to.
I need them to be there for mewhen I do mess up to.
That's building a goodrelationship with my parents.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Right.
I mean this is a 14-year-oldright.
It's amazing right, and if wethink about even just human
evolution, it's like the ceilingfor the last generation or the
floor for the next generation.
It doesn't mean anyone's betterand it's always consistent like
that.
However, in this moment I meanlook at that wisdom that she has
and that she probably alsogained with and from her parents
they seem to know that and toget that and to be able to meet
her in that.
Because if we look at thisexample, it can go a few

(12:54):
different ways, or at least two.
One is have them studied haveyou done this, have you done
that?
And add more stress to analready very stressed out teen.
Teens are stressed right now.
Or it can be like anything Ican do to help and you're with
them in that, or just remindthem that, no matter what
happens on that test, you gotthem back right.

(13:15):
There's such a difference inthat approach and usually I mean
, no matter how old we are, wewant to feel seen and witnessed
and understood in that moment,and when we're stressed, the
lecture will never do anythinganyway.
So I mean, no matter how old weare, we want to feel seen and
witnessed and understood in thatmoment, and when we're stressed
, I mean the lecture will neverdo anything anyway.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right, you mentioned that.
I want to get to that part too,because I think you had a post
that spoke about like notlecturing, you know, teens.
Let's move into that slowly,kind of maybe addressing
parenting styles, because I knowthat parents that follow
Kirsten are on, many of themhave very young kids, you know,
under the age of eight or nine,and they're listening to this
saying how do I prepare for that?
Maybe they've been followingconscious parenting, positive

(13:50):
parenting, which I've addressedalready.
You know that I have my ownissues with in terms of those
terms and what kind of thependulum in a sense, has swung a
little bit too far towardsbeing there for kids or not
being there but not having theboundaries, but having the
warmth and the connectednessright, and that's led to
permissiveness a little bit.
So if a parent is listening tothis saying, okay, now I've

(14:12):
learned through Curious Neuronthat I need to balance those
boundaries and limits and alsoshow up with warmth and
connection, am I following this,you know, into the teenage
years or am I upping thatboundary and limit a little bit
more, which is honestly how Iwas raised.
Once I became a teenager, therewas no more warmth and
connection.
It was all about like don'tforget who's in charge here and
you better not cross any linebecause you will have

(14:33):
consequences.
So there was this way of livingin fear all the time.
So where's the balance?

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Such a great question .
It's so relevant right nowbecause I'm with you.
There's this big pendulum swing, which is what humans tend to
do.
We go over here, we go overhere and really we want to be
right here in the middle wherewe can kind of bob and weave as
need be, and so that looks more,and I experienced the opposite.
I experienced little guidance,little support, very permissive

(15:00):
and didn't know where thoseedges were, and both of these
things we're talking about canfeel really intense and scary.
Maybe a teenager wouldn't havethe words for that, maybe some
would.
But that balance of I'm herefor you and here's the edges and
really showing that we can'tjust say you can't just say that
as parents, you actually needto show that and listen and be
there and offer that guidanceand think ahead.

(15:23):
Right, you kind of have to bethat critical thinking brain for
your team.
Because they are in a uniquestage of brain development where
they actually there are thingsthat are going to be harder for
a lot of teens than for adults.
They are just growing incertain areas.
Their prefrontal cortex isgrowing and not fully developed.
Their limbic system is totallydeveloped.
They might be really emotional.

(15:43):
So there's a lot of thingshappening during this stage in
age, and so sometimes it's a bitabout thinking ahead.
What's my teen stepping into inthis age and stage?
What's natural?
What's normal?
They're going to take risks,like you said.
This girl's like I need to makemistakes.
It's part of it.
And so if parents can preparefor what's around the bend, then
there's a little bit moreopportunity to say, hey, you're

(16:06):
16 now, you're going to bedriving soon.
Or hey, you're in high schoolnow there might be parties you
go to.
Let's talk about it, let's comeup with something that feels
good for both of us so that youcan have fun and still be safe
and so that I'm not shaming youand we maintain this trust and
there are ways to speak openly.
And I think it's a lot aboutbeing authentic and real instead
of like I'm the parent and itlooks like this, you know, that

(16:28):
kind of hat and role almost thatgets like put over our true
self sometimes, and I see thiswith parents.
And when they take that off andinstead really engage in a way
that's real, imperfect and meetstheir teen, human to human,
while still being a leader,right, it's amazing what can

(16:48):
happen.
Teens have a lot of space forthese conversations, but yeah, I
think it can be intense place.
A lot of parents aren't feelingsuper confident.
What are those limits and howdo I do that?
And so this varies family tofamily, of course, depending on
your values, depending on whereyou live.
There might be differences forcurfews and safety and all of
this sort of stuff.
But if anyone needs sort of ago-to think, think about

(17:11):
authoritative what does thatlook like?
And then start exploring someof those examples.
Instead of I want to do theopposite of my parents think
what's the most balancedapproach for this age and stage,
for what's around the bend.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
I love that you mentioned, you know, kind of
creating that limit and theboundary so that they know like,
okay, I can push not push itbut you know how can I explore
life and get to know myself too,because they are getting to
know who they are.
You know it's such a difficultyear a couple of years, I think,
for myself, like 13, 14, 15years old was.
It wasn't fun for my mom.
She was a single mom and I liketruly, you know, like applaud

(17:46):
her because I pushed thoseboundaries.
But again, it's interestingthat we had different
upbringings because myboundaries were very strict and
so I wanted to push them as muchas I could to kind of breathe.
You know, like I was like thisis, I need space, and I remember
my mom saying like if I don'tgive you those boundaries, like
you'll turn out like you'll be amess, and I was like, okay, but
it's so hard when I think ofthis teenager that I had

(18:08):
conversation with.
She also spoke about boundariesand how they're not fun
sometimes.
I think what is hard for aparent is when you set a
boundary and that might create aproblem for your child with
their friendships, right.
So I think about the boundaryshe spoke about around screen
times and phones.
Where her parents have askedher, the phone stays in the

(18:29):
kitchen, in the living roomwhere I see you.
It does not go upstairs in yourroom and that's the rule of our
home.
But her friends were textingand messaging and on social
media at nighttime and she wasin bed sleeping because she
wasn't joining in theconversation.
But that felt right to thatfamily and that's the boundary
they had.
So when a boundary creates abit of a rift between your child

(18:51):
and their friends, how do youknow that you need to maintain
that it's a perfect example.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I mean, this is so relevant right now and it sounds
like maybe this person is stillyoung enough, or their
relationship is so strong thatshe's letting her parents keep
her phone in the kitchen, like,and.
Or their relationship is sostrong that she's letting her
parents keep her phone in thekitchen, like, and there's some,
well, she's not happy about it,she's not happy about it, right
.
And then there's some, someolder teens where it's like yeah
, no, I paid for this, it's inmy room, right, it's right.
So much variety here.

(19:16):
And and I love that you broughtthis up because, um, I think
what, what is important in thesemoments is, yes, you can stand
firm with whatever the boundaryis.
If it's important to keep thatand it really might be like this
one might be very important forthis family to maintain we can
have conversations around what'shard about that be missing out,
because we might find out theyfeel left out or maybe one of

(19:39):
their friends is reallystruggling or maybe there's a
group project right, there'sthis whole range of why they
might want to stay connected andhave their phone in their room,
and that's always what's mostinteresting to me.
Yes, you can solve the boundaryTotally, absolutely, and if your
team wants to talk or ifthey're having a hard time with
that, I would keep that dooropen about what's hard about it

(20:00):
instead of it all being aboutthe boundary, because not only
will then you build trust andkeep the line of communication
open, but also know more aboutwho your teen is and what's hard
for them and what's importantto them, Right, and that
boundary can look like I spokeabout the screen time.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Maybe there's a party they want to go to and you
don't agree with it because youknow who's there.
Again, I love that you broughtup that question, you know,
because then you can at leastunderstand it doesn't mean that
you'll give into it, but atleast having the conversation of
why this is hard for them andthat you understand, you're
validating it.
But it doesn't mean you alwayshave to break that boundary for
them.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Absolutely, exactly, exactly, I think for so many
teens and I've seen it a milliontimes right, if we can have
space for what sucks and what'shard and what's frustrating,
what they can't stand, what theyhate, they can move through
those emotions and have thatexperience with guidance, with
someone supporting them andunderstanding it and being like
yeah, of course I get that youwant to go.

(20:53):
It makes a lot of sense to me,so-and-so will be there.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, oh, I'm so sorry.
This sucks Right, I know, andjust hearing that I mean
sometimes you go back to yourown adolescence and you're like
I needed that sometimes.
You know, you spoke about thisin one of your posts where you
talk about honoring and holdingspace for teens emotions.
Is that what you mean whenyou're just kind of like
allowing them to feel that andnot necessarily like butting
heads against it and saying youshouldn't feel sad or upset
about it?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever had an experience
where I've said you shouldn'tfeel that way or don't tell me
how you're feeling, right?
Yeah, oh, I've heard this.
It's all welcome and it's everysingle time.
We welcome what is, we areaccepting what is which is

(21:42):
really important in life.
It doesn't mean we lay down andlet someone knock all over us.
That's not accepting it's whatis happening, allowing space for
that, and then we can gothrough that and then you take
the next best action or nextbest step.
And so what I see for teens themore we do this from
complaining to frustration tosadness we get to have that
experience Because, let'sremember too, some of these
things are kind of brand new,because they have this new way

(22:05):
of looking at the world, thisnew brain coming online, and
they're actually getting reallife practice and need our
support with that.
And then, within that, they getto feel like there's space for
all of me here and I don't haveto cut off any of my limbs or
not feel certain things, and myparent is strong enough to hold
space for even my most ugly,imperfect self.

(22:27):
And then it moves through.
Even if you haven't changed theboundary, that process can have
a completion.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Right.
This is so beautiful because Ithink that even if my kids are
not teens yet, it takes awaythat worry knowing that this is
the way.
But I know that there are momsand dads probably listening
right now and saying hold on.
Does that mean that every timesomething happens where they
cross that limit or boundary, amI holding space for them and
saying, well, you went to thatparty and you snuck out, I'm

(22:58):
going to hold space for that andeverything.
Well, you went to that partyand you snuck out, I'm going to
hold space for that andeverything will be fine.
Does that mean that they cannotever have a very strict
consequence in terms of, likethat's it, you're not leaving
this house for a month, orwhatever it is?
I'm assuming the answer is no.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
The answer is no, right, and this is why we get to
dive deeper into this, becauseit can be so easily
misunderstood.
Right, and so, yeah, your teensneaks out and you find out the
common response that so many ofus got.
Maybe some of us got screamedat or yelled at or disappointed
space or harsh punishments, kindof immediately there's room for

(23:32):
something different, whereyou're like okay, so you snuck
out, let's talk about it.
I, you know, you know thecareer and you know the rules.
What changed?
How did you make that decision?
Walk me through that, right,and then you can hear their side
of it.
I mean, this, of course, is partof how you keep an open,
trustful relationship.

(23:53):
But also, if you don't shop,when you might have to work
towards this and be like I'm notgoing to yell at you, I truly
want to know what happened so Ican understand what it's like to
be you.
And then you have aconversation.
Maybe you're eating, maybeyou're driving car rides are
good for those.
You can do it in whatever kindof environment feels natural,
right.
And then it's like well,because I happen, that doesn't

(24:17):
feel super safe for me.
I'm glad you're home safe foryou, and I think we'll just dial
it back a bit, and so thisweekend we're all going to stay
home and it's going to look likethis.
And then next time there's aparty we're going to, we're
going to try again, right.
And so you're.
There's consequences.
Maybe they're natural.
You understand where they'recoming from.
You make a better plan nexttime and it might look something

(24:40):
like that, right, where yourteen then isn't feeling like
attacked or they're a bad person, or their parent doesn't
understand them, but theirparent understands.
Then there are consequences andwe can all move forward.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know, I hope the parents are hearing what I'm
hearing, in the sense that onceour kid becomes a teen, it's
clear that you don't step backand say, well, that's it, I did
what I had to do and it's over.
And now I hope for the bestRight, which is what I think you
know through the conversationswith my own friends.
Sometimes it's like have leftto do as their parent, their
leader, which you've used a fewtimes, and I absolutely love

(25:24):
that, because strong leadershipmeans that you hold those
boundaries, that you feelconfident in what you're doing
and you have those effectivecommunication skills.
I've always said that, even toparents who have a two-year-old.
And now that's what I'm gettingfrom you.
Am I understanding it right?
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Absolutely.
And what's beautiful about theteen years is, I think it really
isn't about hands-off, it'sabout leaning in really
intentionally.
And so, if we want to expand alittle bit, what's coming up for
me on that curfew party sceneis like the teen years are the
perfect time to then say what doyou think I might be concerned,
as your parent, about yousneaking out?
Right?

(26:05):
Help them start to get it fromwithin themselves.
This is how we help them havemore awareness, to self-reflect,
to think about safety, becausethat's not going to be what
they're thinking about.
Most teens not all teens Someteens are very safety oriented.
A lot, have that risk rewardthing going on and they're going
to say you know what it's worthit if I'm going to see that
cute guy or this friend, right,and they're like you know what
it's worth it.
Those kinds of questions arewhat can happen during these

(26:27):
years?
Why do you think this?
What did you notice about that?
How can you think I might bereally concerned as your parent?
And then, on top of that,unfortunately the era we're in
means thinking a lot aboutthings like where they're going
to, what they're going to bedrinking, eating, smoking, where
did it come from?
Right If you have an older teenor teen that likes to go to
parties, and so these are thethings that we do need to

(26:48):
consider.
We can't just not look at andprepare teens for and help them
be the best support forthemselves and a critical
thinker and make those worstcase scenario plan.
It's really hard and I thinkit's so scary because no one
wants to think about their childin a tough situation, of course
, but what's worse than being ina tough situation is not

(27:10):
knowing what to do in that, notbeing able to call my mom, all
of that stuff being proactive,right In terms of you know
they're going to a party.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Let's talk about everything that can possibly
happen Maybe not everything, butalmost right.
Like so that they have you tothink of.
Like they'll think about theconversation they had with you
in that moment.
I'm thinking now about theparents that, like, have a child
who's starting high school forthe first time and that's a very
difficult transition.
I have a friend whose child isgoing through that and there's a
lot of worry, right, like, howwill I make friends?

(27:38):
Will I be the cool kid?
Will it be too difficult interms of the subjects?
Will I do well, my grades areimportant.
What would you say to thatparent?
You know, what kind ofconversations can you have going
into this new journey?

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, this is what's happening right now is in so
many families, school isstarting.
Some people are starting newschools and it is a lot.
Even if your teen doesn'treally care about academics,
that central piece is a lot.
Or what they're wearing, or ifthe teachers are going to be
nice, or you know.
There's so many dynamics.
So I know my way around theschool and, yeah, there's a lot
of.
I think there's a lot ofopportunity.

(28:12):
You're like okay, so you'restarting a new school.
Is anything coming up for you?
Is there stuff that feels bigor feels scary, or big question
marks or stuff that you're justso not looking forward to?
You know how might we talk to afriend if they were starting a
new job and instead of justyou'll be fine and you're smart?
right and all that reassurancewe want what's more supportive,

(28:33):
at least from my lens and fromwhat I experienced, is be like
oh, yeah, of course you'd bethinking about that.
That makes sense to me.
So, if I'm hearing you right,it's like X, y, z and dah, dah,
dah, and you kind of offer thatreflection back and you don't
have to get it right.
It's not about that Plenty oftimes I do that and change it
like no, no, no, no, it's aboutthis, and I'm like, okay, okay,
got it Right.

(28:53):
It's more about that genuinelytrying to understand where
they're at and make space,validate what's hard and tricky
about that.
And then some teens might wantto do a little problem solving
or do a little planning, like,okay, you want to walk through
some of that, and somebody belike, no, no, no, they just
needed to share what wasannoying and hard.
Other teens are like, yeah, Ikind of want to walk through it,
and so we can haveconversations like that, or we

(29:16):
can prepare them a little bitand support them for what's to
come, or just make space forwhat they're afraid of and trust
that they are going to learnsomething through that and
they're going to make it throughthe day, and you can even say
it's okay, we don't have to talkabout it anymore, we don't have
any plans, just know you canalways text me and then be able
to really show up in that rightand say, oh my gosh, that sounds

(29:36):
hard, and then they'll keepsharing.
Right, you want to stay awayfrom but you'll be fine.
But you'll be fine, unless youparticularly have a teen that
likes that reassurance and mostteens that kind of but it's okay
, feels a bit dismissive.
They really need a lot of spaceto process.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Do you think some parents kind of hesitate to do
that and to open those doors andfor the conversation?
One, because, like youmentioned, what if I don't have
the answer?
What if I don't have theperfect answer that they need to
hear?
Two, what if my child sayssomething that is something I
didn't want to hear?
Right, that might be reallyuncomfortable for the parent.
I'm assuming we don't ignorethe conversation and what you
said just for that right.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
Usually the reason we're not showing up this way is
because of fear I'm not goingto be able to hold space for
this big emotion.
Or, yeah, what if they tell mesomething that I don't want to
know?
Um, and this is brings me backto kind of this really important
part of humanity that hopefullywe're getting back to and that

(30:40):
some people have that arelistening or, more, hopefully,
everybody but support andcommunity.
This is how we make throughthis stuff.
This is how we hold the year.
They walk together, right, it'slike parenting is not supposed
to be one or two or maybe three,right, if you have kind of a
step parent in the mix, it's.
It's really more than that.

(31:01):
It's so important to have otherpeople that you can connect with
about this and that can holdspace for your teenager,
especially teenagers.
This is that perfect age tohave mentors and coaches and
guides that you trust and thathave the same values as your
family and all of that stuff.
They can offer something thatparents can't.
There is this part of teensit's like.
When it comes to their parents,it's like they're not going to

(31:21):
hear it in the same waysometimes, but if they hear it
elsewhere, it will land.
It will land deeply and in adifferent way sometimes, and
this is why in ancient times,not even that long ago, but
teens went off and tried amission, an adventurous skill
building, experience and a guide.
And you know, this is why andso I'm thinking about support

(31:44):
here in community, because thiswill help and support parents,
be able to hold space for thosehard moments.
If you know, you can call yourtherapist, your coach, your
friend that's been through it,that community parent group
you're in and say, hey, this iswhat I'm dealing with, right,
and if something like that doescome up, you go, oh, wow, okay,

(32:05):
I don't have the answers yet,but we're gonna figure them out
like I've got to.
Y'all have to know everything.
Who knows everything?
And I personally believe thisis one of the side effects of
conventional modern schoolingit's like don't even think, just
know the answer, and it's likegosh.
I wish the opposite wasencouraged, because slowing down
, pausing, thinking critically,looking at the whole picture,

(32:29):
breathing this is how we come totrue answers and truths and
connection, not like boom, boom,I just know everything.
It's impossible and that isimpossible standards for parents
to just know everything in themoment.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
All that to say.
I think the fear is what getsin the way sometimes, and so we
can even practice on ourselves.
If this is really uncomfortable, it's like, okay, if something
comes up for me, let me try thiswith myself, my inner child or
just myself today.
Right Going, that's okay.
I don't know the answer.
I'm feeling uncomfortable andyou can just have that
experience and know that you can.

(33:03):
You actually are strong enoughto experience that and at times
when you feel like you're notfind your people that you can
call.
But yeah, that fear can bereally such a barrier to true
connection and even just ourinnate wisdom and I know this
from because we all know thisright we all have moments where
we're terrified and scared orfeel alone or don't have the

(33:24):
answer and it's very scary.
And so if we're scared of it, ohmy gosh, imagine how teenagers
are feeling.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Exactly, I know, and what you just said reminds me,
like what I talked to parentsabout, which is it starts with
you, right, even when your childis young.
If you struggle with emotionregulation, then you might
struggle with that co-regulationpiece, and if you struggle with
your emotions and dealing withcertain behaviors, you will
struggle with supporting yourchild, in that your wellbeing

(33:50):
will, you know, impact how yousupport your child as well.
From what you're seeing, ittrickles down into teenage years
as well, where, if we do havesome fears, you know, maybe we
need to work on them before.
I know parents, you know, thatare part of this community, have
younger kids.
So it's never too late to workon that.
Confidence, or the word that Ithink of is, you know,

(34:10):
vulnerability as well.
In those moments, as a leader,you might want to always show
strength, and I don't think thatwe think of vulnerability as
courage and strength.
I see it that way Whenever Igive a workshop or I'm talking
to parents, when I open up andtalk about my struggles as a
parent, then everybody feels thecourage to say like, oh yeah, I
struggle with that too.
I thought you didn't strugglewith anything.

(34:30):
I'm like how is that evenpossible, right?
So I think, in those momentswith our child even saying, I'm
assuming, like, even saying,like I don't know what to do
with this.
This is a really toughsituation, that you're in them
seeing that there aren't answersright away and that we can work
on this together, I'm assuming,gives them the courage in that
moment as well.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, of course it's like, especially, yeah, if we
kind of say you don't know rightnow, and that's okay, it's
uncomfortable, but it's okay,it's normal, it's natural and
we're going to find a way andI'm with you.
I mean, it's not about we knowthis from even just the ACEs you
know the ACEs score.
It's like if there's a hardthing, it's not the hard thing,

(35:11):
it's the feeling alone, havingno support, that make the hard
thing really hard.
So that togetherness is so key.
And you bet um was you weretalking, I was just thinking.
Yet teenagers children ingeneral, but certainly teenagers
have a way of eliminating whereour work is, where we have some
wounds, where we, where we, youknow, can spend some extra time

(35:33):
and and that can be souncomfortable too, and, and
teenagers particularly, havesuch a bad rep for being
difficult and challenging.
And while I'm not saying that'snot true, because grace can be
and this is a growth stage,right, it's very
transformational in the brainand the body.
It's also like there's massiveopportunity for different,

(35:57):
deeper way of together andwalking together and yeah, it's
pretty powerful.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
It's so beautiful to see it that way.
It really is powerful.
I hope this is taking away someof the worries that some
parents have.
It is for myself, just ofseeing it that way and if I can
continue building thatrelationship that's opened, and
even with my own kids.
You know it's very easy todiscipline very quickly.
But even with young kids saying, why did you do that, like you
know, even with a five-year-old,why did you just grab the toy

(36:24):
out of your brother's hands andthen giving them that space to
say he was ignoring me when Iasked him to share, or he was, I
don't know.
I told him not to touch thatone and he didn't follow my
boundary.
My five-year-old can expressthat boundary.
My five-year-old can expressthat.
And then instead of just goinginto discipline and saying, put
that toy back down, how dare yougrab it out of your brother's
hands, there's a conversationand I'm hoping that that can
continue, you know, into theirteenage years.

(36:48):
One thing that I know is achallenge sometimes for parents
is friendships, right, so we dowant our kids to make friends
that support them, that arethere, that become part of their
community, but then we do knowthat part of being in high
school is there will be manydifferent kinds of people and
friends and and that there is achance that your child builds a
friendship with somebody thatyou don't necessarily agree with

(37:10):
and I know that this is veryhard for parents.
How do you approach this withyour child if you know for a
fact that they're with somebody,or hanging out with somebody,
that you just don't agree with?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
This is bringing me back to even some of my choices
as a teenager.
I'm remembering some of thepeople that I hung out with, and
the reason why was because Iwas looking for something that I
wasn't getting at home, that Ineeded in my life.
I wasn't getting a home that Ineeded in my life.

(37:41):
And so one of the proactive,preventative, intentional ways
is to actually be such an epic,support, amazing person in your
teen's life that they'resatisfied in a sense in that way
Not to say they're not going toalso then go out and make
mistakes and, you know, have avariety of friends and there's
something magic about thatfeeling.
I mean, if we can all imagine,like my parents just got me and

(38:01):
they were there for me, like howgood that feels.
And then there's also thisability within that to have
conversations about yeah, whatkind of people are you looking
to be friends with?
And not in a leading way.
You might feel like you want alittle of this and a little of
that and maybe you don't know.
And and help them, like we weretalking about before, have

(38:23):
their own reflection aboutwhat's healthy and solid and
real and true.
And even if they say like Iwant, I want friends at party
instead of like no, no, no, no,you don't want that be.
Like tell me more what soundsfun about parties, because for
some teens it might be, might bereally innocent or it might be
something that you want to talkfurther about or there's an

(38:44):
issue there, right?
And so it's kind of again a lotof things we've been talking
about.
Make space for all of it.
Don't shut anything down.
You're kind of gathering infolike a curious friend rather
than like a parent that wants tototally control everything,
because you're not going to beable to.
That's the reality, and youwant your teen to be able to
make the best possible choicesand you will set up certain

(39:05):
parameters that help to guidethem and keep them safe as they
do that, because they are goingto make mistakes.
And so those are just somethoughts that come up about
friends and I think there's somereally deep conversations.
I have a few teens that I knowthat are interested in going to
parties or meeting boys and allthis stuff, and we still get to
have those conversations aboutwhat's a real friend.

(39:25):
When you think about the bestkind of friend that could ever
be, what do you see, what do youfeel, what's that like and they
get to really anchor that andeven explore how they can be
that for other people and howthey can welcome that.
And some teams are really deep,so they'll have conversations
about energy and what we put outthere and getting you know all

(39:48):
kinds of things can open upphilosophical conversation.
It's amazing what, where we cango when we sort of give teams a
little bit of credit and seewhere they take us, because
they're pretty open-minded andin an expansive state, hence why
we need some boundaries, right.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
So when I'm hearing this, also, I think about one of
your posts that talked aboutprioritizing listening over
lecturing, and I know that manyof us, even with younger kids,
we fall into that.
We were.
Maybe these are patterns thatwe have where we just kept
getting lectures from our ownparents, sometimes growing up.
Um, you know, we see that asthe teaching moment.

(40:29):
But now that I think about whatyou're saying and I you know
I'm thinking of this post we'retalking a lot about talking to
our kids, and what you're sayingis really hearing them.
So so is that what you mean byactive listening, and is there
still space for some lecturing,or you feel that it's just not
what's going to be, like youknow, beneficial to our kids For
a lot?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
of teens it's you, listen, listen, listen, listen,
listen, right, active listening,reflective listening, real,
true, authentic listening.
And then after that there'susually space to share something
, and what can be reallysupportive for parents is to say
like, once you've done all that, really it's been a minute, or
they've really vented orwhatever's happened you've

(41:08):
really listened.
You can kind of be like I'm sogetting it, so it's like this
and like that.
And they're like yeah, yeah.
And then you're like okay, Ihave a thought, are you
interested in hearing Even theoffering?
They have some choice there.
You're not just like, hey, now,mister, you really need, you
know, like that, right, sit downand yeah, it's true, yeah, it's
true.

(41:28):
And they might say they're goingto most likely be like, yeah,
sure, it's very rare thatthey'll be like no way.
And if they do, then it justmeans they're totally
overwhelmed, they're totallydysregulated, or maybe you
haven't listened as well as theyneed you to, and that's good
feedback to have, that's helpfulfeedback.
And so it's like okay, noproblem, is there anything else

(41:48):
that you want to share thatfeels important?
I promise I'm going to justlisten and I really want to
understand and do your best withthat.
I mean, you know what's reallyhard and do your best with that.
I mean, you know it's reallyhard because so many of us
actually weren't modeled this.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
No well, yeah, exactly, I don't know what that
looks or feels like.
Yeah, I was going to ask,actually as a follow-up.
Maybe some parents don't reallyknow what active listening is
in terms of.
You know, because I talk withparents who also struggle with
this in relationships and activelistening is hard, you know.
Sometimes I ask parents thinkabout the last argument you had
with a partner While they werenot speaking.
Were you even just as a basic,were you listening to what they

(42:24):
were saying or thinking abouthow to prove your point the next
time you have a moment to talkand everybody always erupts in
laughter because they knowthat's what they do, right?
So, but listening is not juststaying quiet in that moment.
What is active listening andwhat does it look like?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
It's imagine what it's like to be this person in
what they're sharing with us.
Right, we can imagine if I werethem and they're saying this
and it feels like this and youreally?
Um, we can never exactly knowwhat it's like to be someone
else, but we all have theability as humans to be
compassionate and empathetic andimagine what it could be like
to be going through that and toslow down enough and attune and
even just realize wow, this issomeone in pain, this is someone
having a hard time.

(43:05):
Take away like I'm their parentand they're my child.
They need to listen to me.
It's like this is another humanthat's really struggling right
now.
And what do like?
What do we need as humans?
And I think what's tricky aboutthis is sometimes we don't even
know how to listen to ourselveswhen we're having a hard time,
because we weren't modeled thisso many of us and so we are
learning something new, in asense, and I and I feel so much

(43:28):
peace knowing that it's in ourbones and in our DNA.
Somehow it has happened alongthe way, even if we didn't get
it from our parents.
Maybe we did from ourgrandparents, or maybe they got
it from their parents or we gotit from a friend or a mentor and
so it's imagining being insomeone else's shoes At this
stage.
This person is going throughthis Wow and sometimes it's just

(43:50):
wow and that's what you can sayand you can nod, and it's not
about what you're going to saynext.
Get rid of that.
I have to say the perfect thing.
That script I heard on my sideor your side or whatever.
That can be so helpfulsometimes, but it can also take
us away from just being truly,truly present with what is.
When someone is hurting alecture is never going to matter
, or a heartfelt response, andjust being there in what they're

(44:15):
sharing and knowing that themgetting that out is one of the
most important parts of theprocess of co-regulation that we
can just hold it with them andbear the weight.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Which is heavy.
It's hard too right, which iswhy you need to kind of work on
yourself, because it's not goingto be easy, you know, like
everything that we spoke about,I think it gives us guidance and
kind of this confidence that wecan go about this and move
forward with our kids beingteens and kind of be there for
them.
But if we are strugglingourselves, which you've alluded
to, now, it's not easy.

(44:46):
You spoke about the compassionpart and I had heard an
interview I forget what thepodcast was, but they were
interviewing Brene Brown and shesaid something that marked me.
I wrote this down and she spokeabout if we struggle with
self-compassion, then odds arewe will struggle with compassion
for others and it'll turn intojudgment.
So she used her daughter as anexample, who I don't know.

(45:07):
She took down a ponytail orsomething like that and she said
her mom said why do you?
Why are you doing that?
And she's like well, my friends, you know they were judging me
and saying that it wasn't, youknow, it didn't look good or
whatever it was.
And she was able to express, youknow this compassion to her
daughter.
But then two minutes later shewas like telling her husband
take down the Christmas lightsor, you know, our neighbors are
going to judge us.
She was kind of struggling withlike modeling that and so on.

(45:30):
So you know, it just reminds methat we have to kind of
practice it on ourselves and howwe're compassionate for
ourselves, how we think aboutothers around us, because we
will have our own child to modelthat for, and even, like you
know, saying you should loveyour body.
But then we, you know, dosomething and we're like oh,
I've gained so much weight, Idon't look good in these jeans.
And you know we have to thinkabout what we're modeling,

(45:52):
including compassion.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, I love that example.
And teens, children in general,they know you Like.
If you're their parent, theyjust know you inside out, upside
down and all around, like yourenergy and your essence.
Right, they have been attuned.
Talk about attunements.
They are masters at knowingexactly where you're at.
If you're like yeah, I'm good,they know and you're not, they

(46:15):
know you're not right.
And so there's this beauty inbeing, as you spoke to earlier
and even alluded to that BreneBrown story, is this
vulnerability of just humannessright, even if you're in it with
your teens, like, you can stopand be like I just realized I
didn't listen to you.
Can you say that again, becauseit's really important that I

(46:37):
hear you and really hear youright, there's room for mistakes
the whole way.
If we can, as we can, beaccountable and clear and aware
of them, your teens have to belike hey, you know, if we can,
it's.
It's when we go down that trackof not listening the whole time
, then coming back withlecturing.
That's when they say, hey, youweren't listening, right, but if
we can, if we can notice it aswe're going and say I want to

(47:00):
get this right, like I reallywant to understand what this is
like for you, and then we do ourbest and we try to get better
and also, yeah, just bevulnerable no-transcript me

(47:38):
about that, in the sense thatwe're building this really
beautiful relationship with ourchild.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
We are, you know, giving them that space and you
know we're not saying like I'mthe parent, you do what I say
and you have to follow, and ifyou don't, then there are
consequences and so on andshaming them for that.
It's truly inspiring therespect that we want, whether it
would be the relationship withtheir child or anybody else.
Right, like this kind ofrelationship is a strong,

(48:03):
healthy relationship.
Maybe there are some parentslistening to this saying I've
been doing it all wrong and Ifeel like a really shitty parent
right now.
I have a teenager who's notlistening, who's going off and
doing things that I don't agreewith.
I don't know how to bring thatback and I've been demanding
respect and I have not beenholding myself accountable.

(48:24):
I'm a mess as a parent, right?
I always kind of want to makesure that I address that parent
because sometimes it's hard tohear these things and say I
wasn't doing that.
How do we kind of show themcompassion right now and what's
the path or the journey thatfollows this conversation
they've heard?

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I would say that there's grief and growth, which
is sometimes why we try to avoidit, I think, isn't it Right?
It can be painful, right, whenwe realize, oh, I've been doing
it all you know wrong, quotewrong, and so if anyone here is
feeling like oh and ouch, andlike oh gosh, I could only start

(49:02):
over all of that, we can.
You can say oh shit.
Or like oh, my God, or whatever.
You can actually say this toyour teen I have been missing
out, I've totally missed theboat in this way, in that way,
in this way, and here's what Iwant to do and I hope that you

(49:25):
would be willing to.
You know, go get a starbuckswith me, start small, start with
what they like, honor them.
Apologizing is not puttingsomething on someone, it's just
speaking what's true and beingaccountable.
I've missed something, I'vemissed out.
I've missed Mark.
I thought it was about this.

(49:45):
It's really about this and Iwant to make sure that I, that I
from this place, moving forwardor being really accountable
here and honoring who you areand what's important to you and
how we can have the bestpossible relationship.
I realize it might take aminute, especially if I've

(50:06):
disappointed you or been tooharsh or critical, and you might
not trust me, and that makessense because you know what?
We also want teens to have thatsixth sense and trust their gut
with it.
When people are being harshwith them, that they don't want
to hang out with them, or beingdisrespectful to them or hurtful
or whatever it is, you wantthem to have that strong sense

(50:29):
of that they're not in other.
You know, balancedrelationships.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Yeah, you know, I really do hope that a parent
listening to this realizes thatit's never too late.
If we even just think about ourown parents, right, if there
was an apology even now, as a 41year old, you know for certain
things that I still remembervery clearly in my mind, but
when they're addressed it's likewell, you overplayed it or you
were just too sensitive in thatmoment.

(50:55):
Or are you saying I'm a badparent and never?
Receiving that apologysometimes hurts.
And even if now you have ateenager, it is not too late to
apologize.
And, like you said, it's notjust about that.
It's really about you knowyou're holding yourself
accountable for you know thingsthat you've done or said and
saying like I don't want torepeat that.
I want to make sure that youknow this relationship is

(51:16):
important to me and I want towork on this with you, but I
need you to be there with me now.
It might be hard, especially ifthings you know, the
relationship maybe isn't whereyou wanted it to be.
Maybe there'll be a rebuildingof trust.
I'm assuming, right, if youknow, if this is coming out of
nowhere and your teen's like Idon't know this is really going
to happen, but there has to bethat rebuilding yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
And expect them to be a little weary.
That's healthy, that's natural.
I even think about the teens Imeet when I'm a new person in
the world.
I'm like that it might take aminute for them to even be okay
with talking to me, and so wehave to build that trust and if
there's any repair that needs tobe done, yet, there's
reparenting work, there'sreflection and there's repair

(52:01):
all tied up into that.
Maybe parents can make a promiseLike here's my promise, because
I really missed out and I'mdeeply sorry and I actually wish
that I could turn back theclock.
And so, moving forward, here'ssomething I promised, and make
it a promise you can actually doand and grow from there.

(52:21):
And yeah, I'm with you If oneof my parents came to me and
said, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry Imissed whatever it is that
still hurts for me, and so, andif, and we may never get that,
and and you know we, but we cangive that and we can give it to
ourselves and we can give it toour kids, it's, it's.
There's so much beautiful workin um.
Sometimes I'll even imagine,right, my parents saying

(52:43):
something like that hi, yelena,and that can be beautiful too,
even though it feels imaginary,it's almost, um, it's like inner
child work, where you can kindof write your own story and
create something different, andwhen we do that it ripples in
every direction.
It's not just forward, Ibelieve.
It's all encompassing to somedegree you know, relationship

(53:11):
with our child.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Maybe there is some repair for us in our childhood
that will make it a bit easierfor us.
You know, like I do believethat sometimes we have to kind
of address those and not reallyignore certain things that
happened.
You know, like that's okay, I'mhaving a lot of trouble
stopping this conversation.
I am enjoying everything thatyou were saying and I can't
thank you enough for thisconversation.
I think for me to end this tokind of like, maybe shed a bit

(53:37):
more light, given the teenagersthat you've worked with, what
are some things that you'veheard them say that you wish
every single parent would know.
You know some things that weonly learn after the fact and we
can know now, as we're goinginto these years.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
They actually really care deeply about what their
parents think about them and areso attuned to what they really
think about them, right, and sothat's that authenticity piece.
They do care, they do want tohave a good relationship with
you, they want to be seen asbread through your eyes and they

(54:03):
want you to understand them, orat least you know, try.
And I think one of the mostoverlooked, underutilized areas
to connect is when teenagers arefrustrated or complaining, and
those negative moments where somany of us were called
disrespectful or ungrateful orwhatever.
Those moments, because teensaren't always going to know what

(54:26):
they love or be excited,especially because they're sleep
deprived.
Just so everyone's clear,they're very sleep deprived.
They're going to stage whenthey need sleep more than any
other time in their life.
So, leaning into those moments,if they're annoyed, frustrated
or complaining or seeminglyungrateful.
Have fun in that area and enjoythat.

(54:48):
That's an invitation.
This is something that I thinkcan change a lot of lives,
because I've seen it happen.
It's an invitation.
They're telling you about whatit's like to be them.
It's not coming through apositive lens, but sometimes
that's where we're at.
We just know what we hate, wedon't know what we love.
And meet them in that and see ifyou can play there and just not
take it personally.

(55:08):
It doesn't mean you're going tobe a negative, horrible person
and you're enabling their badbehavior.
It's human, especially in theteen years, to kind of go ick.
They are literally getting ridof their childhood self, walking
towards their older self andthey need for help with that and
so thinking of it like abutterfly coming out of a cocoon

(55:28):
or whatever metaphor helps youthrough that kind of what feels
maybe a little ugly or negative.
That's okay.
We all grew up I mean so manyof us grew up to be people
pleasers and focus on thepositive and all this stuff.
Life is everything, especiallyduring a highly pivotal growth
stage right, and so I wouldimagine that people listening

(55:52):
you've had a teen complainbefore, whether it be about what
you made for dinner or theirteacher at school.
Meet them in that moment.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, oh, it's been such a pleasure.
You just touched on somethingand I realized this is something
maybe just as a reminder toparents name calling right, like
putting a label on our kids,and I think you addressed this
too in terms of being ungratefulor lazy.
I had spoken to a woman acouple of years ago who was
diagnosed with autism in herlate thirties and she said

(56:20):
something that marked me.
She had said that her parentswould call her lazy, she wasn't
doing well in school and thatshe wasn't trying hard enough.
She said there is not one childor teenager that intentionally
is trying to do their worst inschool at life never.
And she said that's a sign thatthere's something going on and
that we need to kind of open ourminds towards that, rather than

(56:44):
just saying like, stop being solazy, do better in school, stop
being this, that, whatever itis these labels Because, like
you said, we start taking thaton right as a label for
ourselves.
And I remember struggling a lotwith exams because my internal
dialogue was very negative, likeyou're not good enough, you're
not smart enough, my you know,my brother was always the smart

(57:05):
child of the, you know, of thefamily, and so those labels kind
of start coming up at the wrongtime If a parent.
Again, I don't know how toaddress this question.
I just wanted to bring this up,but it's something that you
mentioned that I just thoughtwas important to say.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
It's very important.
It's like normalized actuallyto me and call children which is
weird.
We would never do this with ourfriends and these are our
children.
They deserve the absolute best.
They're growing through veryimportant childhood stages and
brain development in a very wildworld and more than anything,

(57:42):
they need to see themselvesclearly, especially as they're
wavering.
So we need to see them clearlyand as a friendly reminder
grades don't matter, they don't,they never really did.
Friendly reminder grades don'tmatter, they don't, they never
really did, but they definitelydon't.
Now.
If anyone here is like, no, mykid's really struggling in
school, but they're so smart,they have potential, they don't
matter.
Maybe you have a type A kid andgrades do matter and they're

(58:03):
going to go be a doctor, that'stotally fine.
Never letting grades orthinking they're lazy and don't
care about homework get in theway of your relationship.
It's not worth it.
The world is changing reallyfast.
There's no scarcity foropportunities for learning and
jobs and work and magic andgifts, so that just feels really

(58:24):
important.
Now it's a little off of whatyou were saying, but I know that
a lot of that name calling cancome from that fear of like, oh
no, they're going to fail andsuccess is not what we think it
is no, it's true, and I think itcomes, you know, from a place
for parents, and if I scare themenough or if I show them like
don't be this, then they'll dothe opposite.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
But it doesn't work.
It just it doesn't help.
It really doesn't help.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Again, kirsten, thank you so much for taking the time
to chat with me.
How can people listening, youknow, join you and learn more
from you?
People can visit me at Kirstenon Instagram.
I try to get back to everycomment message as best I can,
and then I still, and for aslong as I can, offer one free 30
minute call per family.
So even if you're notinterested in long-term coaching
or don't feel resourced forthat, you can still schedule
that with me if you'd like.
And thank you so much forhaving me.
I absolutely loved connectingwith you today.

(59:18):
It means so much to me.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I hope we get to chat again soon.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed thisconversation as much as I did.
You can have all the links toresources, such as Kirsten's
connections and her Instagramaccount below.
You can join the ReflectiveParent Club our new Kirsten Ron
membership with the links belowas well, or get access to our

(59:40):
wellbeing free bundle kit in theshow notes or the eight week
challenge.
Thank you for listening to theKirsten Ron podcast.
Make sure you share this withfriends and colleagues, and I
will see you next week.
Please don't forget to takecare of yourself, my dear parent
.
You matter more than anythingelse, and so this is why I
record a podcast episode everyweek with you in mind.

(01:00:02):
I'll see you next week.
Have a wonderful and beautifulweek.
Bye.

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