Understanding and Managing Emotional Triggers for Mindful Parenting with Dr. Sarah Bren

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Trying to just turn off the behavior, despite the
flood of feeling pushing on thaturge to do that behavior.
It's like that might be thewrong spot to be intervening.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello, dear friend, welcome back to another episode
of the Curious Neuron podcast.
Hello, dear friend, welcomeback to another episode of the
Curious Neuron Podcast.
Today is another replay episodeof our top three episodes.
Last week I republished theepisode with Dr Bruce Perry If
you missed it, you want to goback and listen to that one and
today we're publishing the thirdtop episode in our entire 200

(00:42):
episode series so far, and thisis with Dr Sarah Bren.
Clearly, this topic was veryrelevant to all of you.
We spoke about managing ourtriggers and I think that, as
parents, you know, we learn alot about how to support our
child with their tantrums andtheir emotions and their
behaviors, but we just don'ttalk enough about how we have to
manage our own.

(01:02):
And once we start doing that,we see a really big difference
in how our kids are starting tomanage their emotions.
And I know that it's hard tothink about it that way and it
feels like extra work and moreof that self growth and all of
that stuff, but it makes adifference.
Not only is the science clearthat we need to start with us
and the more regulated we arewhich, by the way, not always

(01:23):
calm regulated is just the ideaof reminding our child that
they're in a safe space.
So we can still be angry andcreate a safe space for them,
knowing that they're not goingto be shamed or disrespected and
that they can express theiremotions.
That is a safe space, and sowhen we learn how to do that and
many of us didn't learn how todo this when we were growing up

(01:44):
because we weren't given thatenvironment by doing that for
our kids, we are creating thatsafe space for them, and so it's
just important for us to learnhow to do that.
I also know how important thisis because that is why I started
or launched the ReflectiveParent Club this year.
I felt that with these 200episodes of the podcast with

(02:04):
social media that has been upfor years now, with some of the
courses and PDFs that I had upon CuriousNeuroncom, I had been
giving all of you this educationfor many years.
You can keep learning.
Remember, this summer, I spoketo 100 parents.
The most important thing tomany parents, especially new
parents, was to learn, and sothey were picking up books and

(02:26):
reading and following all thesepeople on social media like
Curious Neuron and myself,because they wanted to learn,
and I think that's a great firststep, but it's the first step.
The next part is executing andknowing and learning how to do
that and getting support to dothat, which is why I launched
the Reflective Parent Club.
Inside the club, there's 20%learning, because you've already

(02:47):
learned it all with CuriousNeuron.
I have a private podcast foreverybody where I publish a
weekly episode, just like I'mdoing here, but it's within the
membership, so it's called theReflective Parent Podcast.
Then there are PDFs and tools,but, most importantly, we meet
every single week because I wantto hold you accountable.
I want you to share what'simproving and where your

(03:08):
challenges are, because it'sonly through this practice that
we'll actually see a differencein how we are aware of our
triggers and emotions and how weregulate them in front of our
child.
And the more we can do that,the more we can model healthy
coping skills for our child.
And that's why I built the club.
Meltdown Mountain is back onour website, kirstenroncom, if
you click on shop.
So this PDF is a visual thatyou can use to support your

(03:31):
child.
And guess what we did inDecember?
Our weekly call inside the club.
Instead of it being for adults,I made it a family call and so
children came in, I had themdraw reflective sorry, the
Meltdown Mountain and we spokeabout emotions and we spoke
about what it felt like to be tofeel connected and loved by our
parents.
We had such an amazing timethat we are going to redo this

(03:52):
next month, in January.
It's going to become a monthlything to bring our kids inside
the weekly reflection call onlyonce a month.
If there are any challenges thatyou are having or struggles
that you're having regardingemotional awareness or
regulating your emotions orsituations you have in your life
or even with your child, youcan send me an email at info at
curiousmrowncom.
I really do truly mean it.

(04:12):
Send me an email and I do mybest to respond to the emails
and I want to cover topics thatmatter to you and that are
relevant to you.
So I can only do that if I knowwhat's happening, and that's
what's so hard when you'rerecording a podcast.
I don't get that communicationand connection with you.
So send me an email.
Info at CuriousNeuroncom.
If you are not following us onInstagram, you can follow us at

(04:34):
Curious underscore Neuron, andnow I've redone the entire
website, curiousneuroncom, whereyou can create your own account
and start saving articles.
So, if you do love learning,these articles are written by
PhD students and graduates witha PhD in neuroscience and
researchers.
We reach out and we ask theseresearchers questions, so we

(04:55):
have a Q&A within some of thesearticles, and now we've started
including small audios so thatyou can get a taste of what it
feels like to be inside theReflective Parent Club and get
these reflection prompts thathelp you gain more awareness,
and so you can do that byvisiting CuriousNeuroncom.
As always, I want to thank theTannenbaum Open Science
Institute as well as theMcConnell Foundation for

(05:16):
supporting the Curious Neuronpodcast.
Without these two organizationsthat truly believe in the
importance of sharing science, Iwould not be here and this
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So thank you, and obviouslythank you to you, the listener.
Make sure that you have pushedthe subscribe button for the
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(05:37):
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(05:57):
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It's $50 for three months.

(06:18):
In total, it ends up being $6and something, a couple, a
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All right, I don't want to keepyou waiting anymore.

(06:43):
Here's my conversation with DrSarah Bren.
Hi everyone, welcome back tothe Cure's Drown podcast.
My name is Cindy and today I'mhere with Dr Sarah Bren and, as
I was just telling her, it'sSaturday morning.
Here we're recording and I justget this sense of peace that
I'm meeting with her again andchatting with.
I think it's like a friend thatI haven't seen in so long.

(07:04):
So welcome back, sarah.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Oh, thank you for having me.
I feel the exact same way I wassaying to you.
I was like I don't usually workon Saturdays, but I was like
really looking forward tospending my morning, my weekend
morning, with you.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Thank you.
You know it's going to be aninteresting conversation because
this is something that I havebeen talking about without
really realizing how muchresearch was kind of behind it.
This was just throughexperience and I've always
talked about the importance of apause between your child's
action and your reaction.
But now I've been reading thebook Emotional Agility by Dr

(07:36):
Susan David and I thought it wasreally interesting that she
spoke about the space, so thatpause that I was talking about.
But now we're talking aboutthat space between some sort of
stimulus and your response, thestimulus being your child's
behavior.
And when I shared this with you,you mentioned the.
You know the how we interpretour child's reaction or response

(07:57):
or behavior and how that makesa difference in how we respond.
So that's what I wanted to chatwith you about today, because
even in myself I noticed it,that you know those moments when
I'm feeling a certain way orhave certain thoughts that are
in my mind, I struggle or Idon't respond to my kids the
same way that I would if Ididn't have those.
So where do we begin with thisconversation?
I guess the importance of thatspace and that how we interpret

(08:20):
that, that behavior One.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
We have to understand that, like our thoughts and our
feelings and our behaviors areinterconnected, they're not like
separate things.
I think a lot of times when wetalk about wanting to change a
response which would be thebehavior, we're like I should
just change the behavior or mykids should just change the
behavior.
But if we look only at thebehavior, we're missing all the.

(08:44):
It's like you have to goreverse engineer that behavior a
little bit because it'sbehavior isn't just coming out
of nowhere so and it's prettyhard to just like.
If I'm feeling mad and I wantto yell, it's hard to just like,
not yell and still feel justthat mad, right, like.
As adults perhaps we may beable to inhibit that impulse

(09:06):
with some practice and awareness, because it's not always.
But a kid is not going to beable to inhibit that impulse.
So trying to just turn off thebehavior, despite the flood of
feeling pushing on that urge todo that behavior, it's like that
might be the wrong spot to beintervening Like I think.
I sort of think of it as achain link and that's not a link

(09:28):
on the chain that I wouldrecommend starting with
intervention Like I don't thinkit would be successful.
However, if you kind of followthose chain links backwards,
you'll find that somethinghappened right, some prompting
event occurred.
I had an interpretation aboutthat thing, some sort of thought
.
I made some sort of meaning outof that event and then, because

(09:53):
of that thought, I had afeeling, and that feeling leads
to an urge and a behavior.
That's five links right there,and so trying to just go to link
number five, the behavior isnot really going to be that
helpful.
It's hard to inhibit an urge.
That's probably not the placeI'd start either.
It's hard to make a feeling goaway.

(10:14):
If I have the thought my kid isdoing this on purpose, just to
piss me off, it's hard to saylike, well, don't feel mad about
that, I will feel mad aboutthat.
But so then where do we go?
We can't change the thing thathappened.
So we're left with the thought,and this is where I think
people can have the most impact,right, like if you, if

(10:36):
something occurs, the stimulus,the prompting event, whatever
kind of language you want to useto describe it and I could
notice in the moment ooh, I hada thought, and usually the first
thoughts we have are automaticthoughts.
We don't actually pick them,they're not really conscious
thoughts, they're just like theyhappen immediately.
God, why is he doing that onpurpose?
Like why is he doing that?
He knows better, right.
And then I notice, because I'mpracticing some awareness ooh, I

(11:02):
had that thought that I'm sortof personalizing this.
Is there an alternative way tointerpret this, this behavior or
this event?
Um, so like if my kid, just youknow, dumped out my entire
purse, which has definitelyhappened Um, I might be like

(11:25):
what the hell is wrong with you,like that's mine and why did
you do that, and like that's sodisrespectful.
Those are all automatic thoughts.
Those are going to lead toanger, frustration, you know,
and probably a lot of urges andbehaviors related to that anger
and frustration.
But if, in the moment, I couldsay and again I say this, like

(11:45):
it's easy to do, this is noteasy to do in the moment when
your kid dumps out your wholepurse and you have to go to not
have the thought, those angrythoughts, but if you could say,
oh, I wonder if he's feeling alittle curious, I wonder if he's
just playing and doesn'trealize Depends obviously on the
age of the kid Like thisexample in my head is at the

(12:07):
time my kid did this when he was, like you know, one and a half
to.
Yeah, they're curious.
Yeah, if my, if he did it nowand he's six I would have a
different interpretation.
But so, like it's not aboutgetting it right either, it's
like can we shift ourinterpretation to give a little
more grace, to be a little bitmore curious, to be a little bit
more open to alternativepossibilities, to recognize that

(12:33):
maybe a part of them did it onpurpose to piss me off, but
maybe a part of them also did itbecause they didn't want to
leave and they were feeling myurgency to get out the door and
they were getting a littledysregulated and they just kind
of like, just impulsively, didthis thing and didn't really
think it through, didn't thinkI'm going to do this to piss off
mom, but oh, this is that, thisis how I'm feeling and I just,
you know, like, but when wechange our interpretation, does

(12:55):
it change the feeling or theintensity of the feeling, which
could then change the urge orthe behavior?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
That intensity that you just spoke about.
First of all, you said so manythings that I've heard parents
literally tell me, you know,like the awareness of it.
They struggle with theawareness of recognizing, like
some you said some can beunconscious, right, and some are
conscious, but just recognizingthat like moment of, or that
thought or that feeling that youmight have, that's one thing.
Parents have often told me thatthey go from zero to a hundred,

(13:27):
like their child says somethingor does something, and when I
surveyed parents they were likethat was the phrase that came
out as most common is I go fromzero to a hundred and I don't
see it coming and then I lose iton my child.
That was the first one.
The second phrase that was verycommon was I'm often triggered
and I don't know what thetrigger is Like.
My child says something or doessomething and I just feel

(13:49):
triggered and I lose it, whichgoes back to that zero to 100.
So I there's so many ways thatwe can continue on this.
I, I, I want to take, I justwant to touch on that zero to
100, right, and that awarenesshow does a parent start that
process if they are noticingalready that they often lose it
very quickly and they don't see.

(14:10):
I tell parents, if you're goingfrom zero to a hundred, you just
haven't recognized or you'renot aware of that.
One to 99, like it's there,it's happening and I've called
them micro emotional momentsthat's not really a scientific
term but I use that to just tryto bring awareness to the
parents saying maybe somebodysaid something to you that
morning or you had a thought inyour mind of, like I'm going to

(14:31):
have, I have a deadline at workand I can't miss it.
And then you, like the exampleyou gave, your child flips your
purse and you're on your way outand then you lose it on them
and it's not because of thataction, it's because of
whatever's been on your mind.
So how do we start thatawareness aspect?

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, oh my God, so many things are coming to my
head.
But there's sort of two thingsthat I think would be the most
helpful.
One is I'm left out some of thechain links before you have.
So in this model they call itthe model of emotions and it's
basically it's seven chain links.
So the first one, the fourprompting event is there are

(15:09):
three types of vulnerabilities.
There's current statevulnerabilities, like am I
hungry?
Am I you know?
Did I get not a?
lot of sleep last night, likedid I forget to you know, eat
any breakfast?
And then there's also ourtemperament, so like how
sensitive are we at baseline togetting dysregulated and how
long does it take us to kind ofcome back down once we do?

(15:31):
And then our personal histories, so like these are learned
experiences that can be as earlyas early life, right, or all
through our life, like if I havea really critical parent, you
know, growing up, and they wouldhave really strong reactions to
our negative emotions or to usmessing up, then anything that

(15:52):
has to do with us perceivingsomeone criticizing us might be,
like you said, a trigger.
And I don't know why, right, Idon't know why this, my kid,
does this.
It triggers me.
Chances are there's a personalhistory, vulnerability there
that's worth exploring, right?
So that's the first link of thechain and I actually think,
like I said, that thoughts are areally good place to intervene

(16:13):
on that chain link.
Vulnerabilities are actuallythe first place I usually
intervene.
So that's one piece is like howdo you take a look at what's
vulnerable to you and we bringour vulnerabilities to every
situation, what you know, andwhen there is a prompting event,
which is the second link onthat chain like.
Then those things come forward.
So knowing our vulnerabilities,understanding them, reducing

(16:38):
some of them the current stateones are the easiest, most
low-hanging fruit to address butlike even doing some work
around your personal historyvulnerabilities that, I think,
is where a lot of change, reallyvaluable change, can happen.
The other thing I wanted to sayis less about before things

(16:58):
happen, but in the moment whenthey're happening, and gaining
that awareness of that zero to100 or zero to 10.
So, like a lot of parents thatI work with go to a hundred, you
know and don't necessarilyrealize that it's happening
until after it's happened.
And the nice thing aboutunderstanding this chain link
thing is you don't always catchthe thoughts as they're

(17:22):
happening.
Usually you have to have afeeling or behavior, maybe an
urge, and then you workbackwards, you know and like you
say, oh um, I really want toscream right now.
Okay, let me just pause andwork backwards and figure out if
I want to scream right now,what feeling is attached to that
urge and then what thoughtmaybe led to that feeling and

(17:45):
again, like it.
It's hard to do this in themoment, but the the more you
practice it.
A lot of times I'll havefamilies or parents write this
out after the fact and then lookat it and kind of figure out,
because sometimes it's justeasier to kind of look back
afterwards and say, all right,that didn't go well.
Let me map out how that kind offit the chain link right and

(18:06):
then, if you are, then afteryou've gotten good practice at
being able to like reallyaccurately put things in the
right order and identify them,then you're more likely to be
able to do it in the moment.
But I don't expect parents tobe able to do this in the moment
just like that.
It's not, it's a learnedprocess, it's a practice.
But when you notice so a lot ofparents that I work with don't

(18:27):
notice they're climbing it'susually after the fact that
they're like oh, that didn't gowell and I wish that I had done
it differently, and that's sonormal.
But I think one of the anotherexercise that I do with with
parents is and this, a lot ofthese things work for parents
and they also work with our kidsbut I have parents kind of

(18:48):
think about on a scale of one to10, where are your tells?
Like what does it look like foryou to be?
And like one is like I'msleeping, like I'm so regulated,
I'm like so calm, I'm basicallyasleep.
Three, in my opinion, is likeI'm alert, I'm awake, I'm

(19:11):
regulated.
That's like the sweet spot.
And then 10 is like I amabsolutely lost, my mind
completely dysregulated.
And so if you can kind of thinkabout, not in the moment but
like outside of the moment, likewhat are the different levels
for me?
Because most of the time andyou know who would be really
good at helping you fill thisout is your partner, because

(19:32):
they probably know your tellsbetter than you do.
If you are low awareness,that's fine.
You guys could do it together.
Yeah, give each other somefeedback Lovingly getting.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
But I was just going to say, then get in an argument,
because you're like I'm not aseven.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
But?
But I think it's like we, we,we, we talk about building
awareness, but we don't reallytell people how to do it.
It's not easy.
It is a practice.
There are ways that you can dothis.
It is not always intuitive.
It is not always somethingyou're going to have access to
in the moment.
That's totally okay.
Yeah yeah you know just we youand I talk all the time about

(20:10):
helping parents give their kidsemotion regulation skills, and
we say it's not going to happenall overnight and they aren't
going to just innately know howto do this.
And you might have to repeatthese instructions and support
them in the learning andscaffold them a hundred, five
hundred, a thousand timesperhaps before you see them do

(20:30):
it on their own.
And that's normal.
So why would it be anydifferent for us?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Right, especially if we have so much unlearning to do
, I think, and that kind ofbackground and childhood comes
into play, then there's a lot towork on and I don't want
parents to feel discouragedbecause I've even this.
We did this one week challengethrough Wonder Grade, my app,
and we had parents just journal,like you said, I didn't want
them to be able to identifytriggers, I just wanted them to

(20:56):
be able to think back at asituation that they yelled and
think, like what happened before?
What were my thoughts before?
Like what happened right beforethat and what did my child do?
That led to me exploding.
And parents still after a week,obviously didn't I know how to
identify triggers.
However, they had become moreaware of those moments.
So when they were in a similarmoment, they were able to just

(21:17):
say like, oh, I recognize thismoment that I usually yell at.
So they hadn't done all thework and they still had a lot of
work to do.
But just to kind of emphasizethat point that you said about
writing it down, I think itreally does help us to say, oh,
now I've noticed a pattern, likewhen this happens or when that
happened in the morning I had anargument with my partner or I'm
thinking about something or acertain family member called.

(21:38):
I've noticed that I lose it alot more easily with my kids.
Like it's that awareness,that's just like the seed of it,
you know, like it's not.
They haven't gone through allthe links you mentioned, but
it's just that tiny little bitof awareness.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Right and it builds because the more aware you
become, the more aware youbecome, and it does have a
really positive snowball effect.
I teach a lot of thesestrategies in the workshop that
I have called Be the Calm inyour Child's Storm, and it's
funny because I literallycreated this whole other course
on tantrums called the Scienceof Tantrums.
It was about helping parentswith their kids' tantrums and I

(22:10):
other course on like tantrumscalled the science of tantrums.
It was like about helpingparents with their kids tantrums
and I was like it's in, it'slike in six steps and one of the
steps was parental regulationand I was like this needs to be
like its own thing Right, yeah,like cause you know, yes, it's,
it's good to know what's goingon in your child's brain and
body to help them regulate.
But you can't do that if you'redysregulated, like by definition

(22:40):
.
Like co-regulation requires acalm nervous system to you know,
share with your dysregulatedchild.
So that's why I did the Be theCalm in your Child Storm
workshop because I was like Ijust need to do a real deep dive
in like parental regulation.
Like it's so hard and no one'steaching parents these
strategies.
They're just saying be aware,be calm, it's important that
you're able to be regulated andit's like sure, great, how do

(23:03):
tell me how, though, because?
it's really hard in the momentwhen my kid is doing something
that is triggering me and it'snormal to be triggered.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And thank you.
That's exactly what I wanted tosay, because I think that
parents, when they hear the sortof thing that we're saying
about like trying to be calm orbe aware, even if they get the
advice, I think some parentsfeel like, oh yeah, but I lost
it yesterday.
I'm a bad parent.
You know like I've had thisdiscussion with parents too,
where they feel like I'm tryingso hard but I still lost it.

(23:33):
Last month I lost it like twiceand I tell them that's actually
really good, you're better thanI am, because that's not easy.
And I think there's this sortof pressure where, because of
everything that's out there andall the information, I think
parents feel this pressure to bebetter and perfect, and we
don't want that.
It's not about being perfect,but that awareness will

(23:57):
naturally change how you respondto your child.
That that sort of you know andand it's not an a hundred
percent kind of thing, it's likejust gonna, you're going to see
it happening more often.
But even as people whounderstand this, I lose it and I
still have triggers that Idon't understand or I haven't
worked on.
And you know I was talking to afriend who came up to me and
said you know, when my childwhines, doesn't matter what it's

(24:18):
about, I lose it right away.
I have zero patience for thewhining.
And it led to a conversationabout like how did it start?
You know what age, when?
And it started when he wasthree years old and it was
during the pandemic and rightwhen the pandemic hit and it
must've been some sort ofbehavior that was learned.
I don't know how, that's not mybackground, but it happened

(24:40):
during the pandemic.
And whenever he whines nowshe's brought back to a very
difficult moment in her lifewhen there was no job, same
thing for her husband.
They were both really strugglingand the child started whining
and it just brought it bringsher back to a really difficult
place, are?
Those some triggers that arecommon in parents because, yes,
that trigger.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I think parents know there's a trigger, but it's hard
to kind of go backwards yes,it's totally, and that's why I
said, like the, you know thesecret link that I didn't
mention originally, which is theprompt.
Uh, the vulnerabilities thingis, and that's why I said, like
the, you know the secret linkthat I didn't mention originally
, which is the prompt.
The vulnerabilities thing islike that's the place that, as a
therapist, that's the place Igo to first, right, that is like

(25:33):
evolutionarily designed toactivate a parent's nervous
system, like that is whychildren do it.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
It is and not volitionally right, it's a very
instinctive thing.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
It works right.
Our brains are wired to findthat very agitating and
uncomfortable and move us intoaction.
But I think so one I just wantto like really validate that the
sound of a child's whines andeven the sounds of a child's cry
for different reasons, areactivating to our nervous system

(25:59):
, especially if you're in thepostpartum period.
Like your child's cries willput you right into fight or
flight, importantly right, likeit sucks us because we're always
in like this low level state offight or flight because our,
you know, zero to one year oldscry a lot.
But this is kind of how ourspecies is designed.
So that's just one piece.

(26:19):
But the other piece that, as atherapist like I'm very
interested is is thesevulnerabilities is when you have
a personal history,vulnerability A lot of times
those are things that areencoded in us and we're not
fully aware of them.
Right, and there is you knowit's funny internal family

(26:40):
systems is a type of therapythat we should do a whole other
podcast on.
It's so interesting.
I think it really gets it likeit being like the human
condition it is.
It really gets it like it beinglike the human condition, but
it talks about this idea that wehave all these different parts,
and different parts comeforward to protect us, like our
sense of self.
And so if there's a part of youthat's being triggered by your

(27:01):
child's whining, there's a goodchance that there's like a part
of you that's coming forward andsaying like you can't handle
that, like that's attached inour mind to something old,
that's scary or makes you veryunsafe or uncomfortable, and I
know you, the self you know,can't handle that.
So I'm going to come in and I'mgoing to protect you, but I'm

(27:23):
going to protect you in a waythat might not be the most
effective today.
Like in this world, like youknow that, might you know if you
had, if perhaps it would likein this world.
Like you know that, might youknow if you had, if perhaps it
would like.
In this example, that partmight just be, you know, a few
years old, remembering somethingfrom the pandemic, but it's not
the pandemic anymore and sothat danger that that part is

(27:46):
reacting to isn't actuallydangerous anymore.
Yeah, but a lot of times theseparts are even younger, like
I've had I.
I've always surprised when Iask a patient I'm working with,
like, and I'll never reallyexplained IFS or anything to
them and I'll just they'll betalking about something that
they do and I'll say somethinglike how old do you think that
part of yourself is?
And almost always they give mean age.
They just know what I'm talkingabout.

(28:07):
And a lot of times it's like Idon't allow someone to trigger

(28:32):
this reaction inside of you.
But if you have aseven-year-old part of you
stepping forward to keep yousafe, they're going to do it
like a seven-year-old does byscreaming and getting really
dysregulated, and so you, asyour adult self, might need to
say like, hey, you don't need toprotect me anymore like this, I
got this, I got you, we're good, I can handle this.

(28:53):
Actually.
And there's a lot of work that Ido in therapy with parents
around understanding thesepersonal histories and these
vulnerabilities and thesetriggers.
And why is this thing that yourchild does so profoundly
upsetting to you?
That's distorted or like out ofproportion to what's happening

(29:14):
in the moment.
And I've seen incredible shiftsin parents' ability to like, do
behave different and show updifferent but also just enjoy
parenting more.
Because all of a sudden, isn'tthis like kind of constant
re-traumatization or likeconstant, you know, reliving of,
unconsciously or consciously,like why people say like why is

(29:37):
this so hard?
Why does this feel so terrible?
Usually there's some old stuffthere that has to get kind of
like under, like reprocessed andlike separated.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
What would you say to somebody who's listening and
I'm bringing this up becauseI've had this conversation so if
somebody is listening and theirpartner in particular perhaps
have these like unconscious, youknow, underlying issues that
they haven't addressed yet andthe insight isn't there yet,
right, like, perhaps they'restill seeing it as my child's
behavior needs to be changed,I'm doing nothing wrong.
I'm responding and discipliningaccording to how my child is

(30:11):
behaving and there's no need togo back into my past or
childhood.
I've had this discussion with amale friend who thought it was
like a lot of like.
I don't remember the word heused.
Like this magic, whatever it is, you know, like it's not real
Like, why, yeah, he was.
He was arguing with me in thesense of like.
Why do I need to think about mychildhood?
I had nothing traumatic,nothing bad happened.

(30:33):
My parents did their best.
They were immigrants from adifferent country but came here,
worked hard, we went to school.
I have a good life, but, yes,I'm struggling with my child,
but my child is the one who hasa lot of behavioral issues the
one who has a lot of behavioralissues.
How do you break through to thatperson who just doesn't see it

(30:54):
yet?
How do you make them understand, or help them understand, that
they do need to do some work andgo back?

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah Well, as a therapist, usually I meet them
where they're at and I'm likeokay, that's not where you want
to go right now, let's figureout a way to work with what's
happening now.
Then, and usually with sometime and some trust building and
some recognition that thethings that we're trying are
working, their willingness tokind of continue to reflect, and

(31:21):
, frankly, the more you canbuild someone's reflective
functioning by helping them workwith their kid in the moment
today and not do the go backwork, the more I think they can
eventually learn to toleratereflecting on their own inner
mind.
Because when you teach a parentto reflect on the inner mind of
their child and build thatreflective functioning skill,

(31:43):
then they're better.
Oftentimes they're more taller,they're able to tolerate better
the you know the pain.
Because that reflecting on yourown inner world if you have a
parent that's highly defendedagainst that you know, just
genuinely does not see the valuein it Chances are there's again
something's protecting themfrom feeling something that

(32:04):
doesn't feel good.
So like and again I say thislike you do not have to have a
traumatic childhood to havetriggers.
And again I say this like youdo not have to have a traumatic

(32:35):
childhood to have triggers.
You can, if you are a parent ofimmigrants who, like was doing
the absolute best they could andlike life was not easy for them
, to seem as though you want tolike blame them and I'm using
quotes like for why you'rehaving a hard time with your kid
right now.
That could be reallychallenging to to your like
worldview and your sense of self, your relationship with them.
So I think it's really importantthis isn't about blaming
parents at all not blamingcurrent parents and not blaming

(33:00):
previous generations of parents.
It's about understanding how weencode things.
We make meaning of things, andyou may have made meaning of
things not because there wastrauma or bad parenting in your
family history, but because thatis how your five, six,
seven-year-old brain encodedsomething.

(33:21):
Oh, you know what?
My parents work so hard, mebeing emotionally dysregulated,
me needing a lot from thememotionally.
It's too much for them.
They shouldn't have to holdthat for me.
So I'm going to hold it in.
That is not a trauma response,but it's still encoding

(33:45):
something that's sort of goingto inhibit your ability to have
a free and kind of fluidconnection with all of your
emotions as an adult, which isgoing to make you having an
ability to tolerate a free andflowing relationship with all
your child's emotions.
You know, as a parent, hardtriggering.
Even so, not everything'strauma right, and I think that's

(34:07):
really important, because Ithink some people think, oh, if
we're looking back at our earlyhistory, it's only relevant if
there was trauma there.
And I don't think that's true.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
No, I'm glad that you mentioned that, like that
trauma part.
We hear so much about it now Ifind Like it's everywhere, I
think, like in my reels as well,like they're talking about
trauma.
I think many have experiencedtrauma, but I think we have to
also think of those who haven'tbut still need to do some work
to try to understand.
You know, what did my parentsdo?
Like, how did they respond tomy emotions?

(34:36):
And, like you said, like whatwas encoded for me in terms of?
I mean, I focus a lot onemotions.
So I think about like howparents helped you cope with
emotions or did they teach youto kind of push them on the side
to the side right?
Are you kind of internalizingthem, trying to be strong and
not?
You know, maybe you don't havethe skills to talk and discuss
and communicate those, thosefeelings that you're
experiencing.

(34:56):
So there's still a lot that wecould have to work through even
if we didn't experience trauma.
So it's important that we saythat you you mentioned so we
spoke about like, the feelingsand the thoughts and the
behavior part of the beginning.
We've been talking a lot aboutthose sort of like the our past
and those vulnerabilities.
What happens when somebodyautomatically, I guess, goes

(35:19):
towards the putting yourselfdown when your child is going
through something you know like.
Those are the thoughts that Ithink we can work on.
If we kind of make a little bitof a mind shift or a shift to
that compassion part, thatself-compassion, how do we start
that work if we know thatthat's something we struggle
with?

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, oh gosh, it's interesting because it's the
same as the anger thing, in myopinion.
Right, it's the same practice,same strategy, right, noticing
the thoughts and identifyingthem with some compassion, right
.
So even if, in the angryexample, if I'm saying to myself
, god, why are they doing this?
Just to push my buttons whenI'm trying to get out of the

(35:59):
house, I'm going to feel angryIf I notice that thought and I
have some curiosity and opennessand compassion towards okay, I
had the thought they did this onpurpose.
Towards okay, I had the thoughtthey did this on purpose, all
right, what else could itpossibly be?
The same strategy is kind ofworks for the shaming, kind of
response the parents have, right.

(36:19):
So if I have the thought, likeif, for example, I yell at my
kid, and now that could be aprompting event, that then
creates an interpretation thatso everything is linked, right.
But let's say I yell at my kidand I have the thought, oh my
God, I'm the worst parent, Ialways do this and I just this
is too hard for me to do this.
That is an automatic thoughtthat is going to lead to an

(36:44):
emotion sadness, shame,embarrassment, hopelessness,
lots of, lots of feelings.
Those feelings are going tolead to urges and behaviors too.
Right.
Maybe I have the urge to shutdown.
Maybe I have the urge to pick afight and deflect.
Maybe I have the urge to repair.

(37:04):
Our urges aren't all bad, butto increase the likelihood of
having an urge to repairrequires some sense of okay, I
got mad.
I had the thought I'm aterrible parent.
I had the thought this is toohard, I can't do this.
What other thoughts could alsobe true?

(37:26):
This has been a long day.
I'm trying I don't need to getit right all the time to be a
good parent.
I can repair with my kid andmake this better.
I remember a podcast I listenedto where two ladies were saying
that if you repair, it's fine.
Hold on your other consciousthoughts to challenge that

(37:47):
thought a little bit and see ifthat shifts you out of those
feelings of shame, hopelessness,frustration, anger at yourself,
whatever you might be feeling.
Maybe you feel those feelingsbut they're less intense.
Or maybe you also feel otherfeelings like okay, I feel a
little confident, I feel alittle hopeful, I feel like I
have some direction.

(38:07):
I know what I can do here.
I just think that we havepermission to like, have a
thought, have it, give us afeeling, and to go back and have
another set of thoughts and adifferent feeling and see if it
changes.
Like just because you had thefeeling and even perhaps behaved

(38:29):
, you know, had a behavior thatkind of followed that you didn't
like, you get to redo it.
Yes, like you get to do over.
I do all the time.
I do this with my kids a lot,because I actually yell at my
kids a decent amount, like I'mnot.
I really want to be very clearI yell at my kids.
I don't like that.
I yell at my kids.
I don't try to yell at my kids.
I don't like that.

(38:49):
I yell at my kids.
I don't try to yell at my kids.
I have a value as a parent totry to not yell at my kids.
I do sometimes feel bad aboutmy parenting when I yell at my
kids because it's not alignedwith my values.
But I still yell because I'm ahuman who loses it.
I get to the end of my rope andwhen I do, oftentimes my go-to

(39:10):
with my kids is, if I can catchit in the moment is to say, whoa
, I totally just lost it.
Okay, I'm sorry, can we do aredo.
And sometimes my kids will notaccept my redo because they're
totally dysregulated because Iyelled at them Right, and they
were already gettingdysregulated, which is probably

(39:31):
why I started yelling in thefirst place, right, it was all.
We were just in a mess at thatpoint.
But a lot of times when I say,hey guys, whoa, I did it again,
I heard it, I heard that.
Yep, I'm sorry, I can, we, can,I try that again.
A lot of times that softens themand they kind of like perk up

(39:51):
and say like, yeah, what elseyou got?
Yeah, and then I try again andI say I have asked you so many
times to go upstairs and getyour clothes on for you know, to
get ready.
I need you to listen, becausewhen you ignore me I get so
frustrated.
What can we do to all goupstairs and get clothes on

(40:13):
Because it's time, and thenusually they're like come with
us and I'll be like fine, likelet's make it a game, whatever,
but like it's a redo.
And you know what that comesafter me totally yelling at my
kids and it being like, okay,this could have gone completely
south, but we, we regrouped.
You're allowed to get messy andregroup.

(40:35):
Yes exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
That is such a good example.
And I've had the same thingwhere I've kind of been like
whoa, that response was not whatit should have been.
I'm sorry, let's try this again.
And I've even done with my kidswhere that that like get
upstairs kind of thing where youhave to repeat yourself and
repeat yourself or the toys.
I have three kids so like Iguess it becomes a mess in the
home by the end of the daybecause who brought out the

(40:59):
legos?
Who has the barbies?
Who has this, who has that toy?
It's, it's too much.
And then for me I know that oneof my triggers is that visual
stimulation thing where there'stoo much in my like what I could
see, too many items and Ibecome overwhelmed because I
know that I need to pick it upif they don't and I don't have
time for this.
So all those thoughts go in myhead.
So if I'm preparing dinner andI see that it's a disaster and

(41:22):
it's already, I could feel myheart like race.
I let them guys, there's justtoo much around right now and
I'm feeling my heart starting torace.
I don't know if this is theright way to do it with them,
but I let them know that I'msort of like getting
dysregulated and like I don'twant to get to that point and
they know.
if mommy yells, if, like, shebecomes like a certain way, you
know things are around, if we'reignoring, so I, or even if

(41:43):
they're ignoring, I'll tell them.
Guys, I've, I've told you threetimes and now I can feel myself
getting frustrated.
So please, let's go togetherupstairs.
What?
How do we solve this problemright now?
Because you've been ignoring me, you know, for X amount of time
.
So I think there's that beautyof what you're doing and like
that, just that expressing toour child, like I feel emotions.
Right now, in this situation,I'm feeling frustrated because,

(42:05):
like that whole sentence thatI've told parents, like, say the
emotion and then say, because,link it to something that's
happening in your environment sothat it's more you're aware of
what's going on.
It's not just I'm feelingfrustrated.
Why?
Because you haven't cleaned upand I asked you three times.
So just letting them know thatI find like makes a really big
difference in how they respondto me.
And you know it's, and I thinkit's an important one.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean, you're doing so many things there.
One, the first thing I thoughtof is like okay, you're talking
about temperamentvulnerabilities.
Right, I know, temperamentallyI'm sensitive to visual
stimulation.
Knowing your sensitivitiesallows you to reduce the
vulnerability in the moment,because sometimes that means you
are going to like work hardoutside of the heat of the
moment to kind of have anenvironment that has low visual

(42:52):
stimulation at times or giveyourself a sensory break or
whatever.
That's like a regulation beforethe prompting event, kind of
thing.
Right.
Also, just understanding yourtells Right, we were talking
about that.
Like, when you're in it andyou're climbing, you know that
when my heart starts racing, youknow when I start to feel that
feeling in my body, I know, okay, that's actually like a five

(43:14):
out of 10 or maybe a seven outof 10.
I want to know what my I alwayssay.
So if I say like three is oursweet spot, we want to be like
three is kind of like the goal,we're never always at a three by
the way, move up and down thisall the time, that's appropriate
.
But if we recognize, okay, if myfive or my seven, for example,

(43:37):
is is a, is my heart racing.
I know that.
You know nine, 10 is no, thepoint of no return, right?
So if I can catch that heartracing at a seven, I've got a
little bit of room to sort oftake a break, bring it down, try
to regulate myself, get down.
You're not going to get down toa three from a seven, but you
might be able to get down to afive and five.

(43:59):
We have so much more access toour parenting toolbox at nine 10
.
It's gone.
Our toolbox is shut, right,it's there, but it's gone.
Our toolbox is shut right, it'sthere, but it's shut.
Yeah, we're just gonna have toride the wave, same with our
kids, right, when they're at aneight, nine, like nine, ten,
they.
We are not going to be able toco-regulate that.
That box is shut in that momentand we just have to ride the

(44:19):
wave and that's okay, that's nota failure for our kid.
That's a huge misunderstandingabout like oh, if I don't, you
know, support them earlier andthey have the meltdown.
I've failed at supporting themand co-regulating them.
You can co-regulate it at 9, 10.
It just looks like beingpresent and keeping them safe
and riding the wave.
That's the co-regulation atthat level.

(44:41):
But I mean, this is why it's sointeresting because, like, we
all have the same parts.
You know equipment, right, ourdysregulation and their
dysregulation is really the samekind of stuff happening.

(45:08):
Cortex means you have moreaccess to your tools to
self-regulate and also to modifythe environment, right, whether
that's getting out of thevisual stimulation space or
getting your kids to listen.
You know those are twoenvironmental stressors coming
at you in that moment and youhave more tools to try to modify
that effectively.
Right, we know screaming at ourkids to go clean up very rarely
works.
But if I have an opportunity tosay, hey guys, let's problem

(45:34):
solve here, what do we need todo to clean this up?
This has to happen.
So let's think together.
I'm not saying that will alwayswork, but you'll have a much
better chance at success of theoutcome which is getting the
area clean or getting your kidsto cooperate, so I love
everything that you did in thatexample.

(45:54):
Thank you, but yeah it's not.
it doesn't need to be perfect,it can be messy.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to touch on one thing that you said and then
we'll kind of like close thisup.
But you mentioned, like thethoughts that are.
I forgot how you mentioned it,but true, right, when we have
thoughts, they're often notfacts, right, they're often
feelings or emotions that wehave based on our past, based on
what we believe on ourselves,about ourselves.
But what I've noticed is it'simportant to say, like you were

(46:23):
saying, like, let's say you'releaving and their child flips
your purse or whatever it is, inthat moment you can be thinking
or you're you know, you yell atyour child.
I'm a bad parent.
Why do I do this?
Every time I mess up.
But if we start just noticingthe fact, like what's reality,
what's, what are the facts?
Right now, my child isdysregulated or screaming.
I'm feeling frustrated.
Just saying that as a thoughtkind of gets you away from the

(46:45):
shaming yourself perhaps, orfeeling guilty, and just you're
keeping your thoughts there, butyou're focusing on things that
you see, you're around, you hear, that are real right.
Is that something that can behelpful for a parent to just?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
focus on facts.
I love that, and that's thedifference, I think, between an
objective interpretation and asubjective interpretation, cause
we taught I use the terminterpretation when I'm thinking
about thoughts Like how are youinterpreting this prompting
event, what meaning are yougiving this thing that has
occurred?
And sometimes we will usesubjective language for that,

(47:18):
which is like you know, I'mguessing.
I think sometimes, if we noticewe're doing that a lot and it's
leading to negative feelingsfor us or uncomfortable feelings
for us, then the alternativewould be to try to insert more
objective interpretation.
Okay, my child dumped out mypurse.
I don't actually know why hedid that.

(47:39):
I'm guessing it's because he'strying to piss me off.
I may also guess that it couldbe because he doesn't want me to
leave, or because he wants tosee what's in there, or he's out
of control, like he doesn't.
He's not actually choosing,he's just kind of like um, which

(48:00):
is a very technical, scientificterm.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
I know exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, it's in the index, but I don't have to get
it right.
I can use subjective.
Those are all subjectiveinterpretations, by the way, but
I always say when I'm talkingto parents about coming up with
alternative interpretations islike you don't have to actually
get the right one, you have togenerate possibilities.

(48:25):
Generating multiple potentialinterpretations is regulating
and it's not about being likethe one that's right.
It doesn't really matter whyyour kid dumped out your purse.
What matters is generatingalternative hypotheses helps you
chill out so that it interruptsthe cycle of that chain link.

(48:48):
Right, it interrupts you movingimmediately to anger,
immediately to wanting to yelland immediately to yelling.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Because, by the way, this chain link it's like
instantaneous, it's like I'mtalking about it as though it's
all spread out and slow, but wemove through it like in a
millisecond Right, right yeah,what would be the three baby
steps that they can start offwith, or two if you want.
But how do we start?
Obviously, I always say, youknow like you need to start with
baby steps.
Don't give yourself such a bigchallenge like working through

(49:17):
your childhood.
It'll come when it's ready, butright now, yeah, that's one of
the last steps if you want tosee a difference tomorrow, like
what can you start working on?

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I would start first, working on in retrospect, trying
to identify these things Aftersomething has been a hot mess,
taking a minute and trying towrite down what happened,
because we have a lot moreaccess to our thinking brain,
our prefrontal cortex, aftersomething's happened and now we
have all the data.
We don't have the data beforeit happens.
It's hard to do this before ithappens.
It's like you either do it inthe heat of the moment or you do

(49:56):
it after.
And I think you need to be ableto do it after to be able to
eventually do it in the heat ofthe moment.
And that's another thing Ithink parents mistake right.
They think if I can't do in theheat of the moment, I'm never
able to do it.
Well, you're, you're trying atthe wrong time.
Bud, you got to do it after.
First, we got to go afterwardsand reflect on what happened,

(50:20):
what, what do we think was theprompting event, what were our
vulnerabilities?
And you don't have to go inorder, but like you go, you know
sometimes you only know what Idid and you have to work
backwards.
It doesn't matter what order,just fill in all the different
spots on the links and, by theway, I said there were seven,
but I didn't mention the seventh, which is after effects, which
is like what are theconsequences?
What happened after I did thebehavior?

(50:41):
Or, if you're mapping out yourchild's chain link, what
happened after they did thebehavior?
And help them get, because youcan use these.
I use these tools with kids allthe time to help them gain
awareness of their emotionaltrajectories.
But so the seven links are inorder vulnerabilities, prompting
, event interpretation, emotion,urge, behavior after effect.

(51:07):
And so go afterwards and writedown what those things were, and
you don't have to go in order,just plug in what you can
identify and work backwards.
That would be step number one,because I think that is going to
give parents a little bit ofconfidence that they actually
can identify these things andthen you are much more likely to

(51:27):
be able to catch them happeningin the moment.
It's really hard to know thisstuff in the moment if you don't
practice it outside of themoment.
So that's step one.
The other thing that I think isactually super underrated and we
didn't talk about this at allis current state.
Vulnerabilities are some of ourlowest hanging fruit and some
of our most dysregulating likepressures on us.

(51:48):
Are you eating?
Are you sleeping?
Are you getting enough water?
Are you getting any sunshine?
Are you getting a break?
Are you overstimulated?
Like these are things that wehave to look at as parents
because usually we are usuallyhighly, highly vulnerable in our

(52:09):
current state.
Vulnerabilities as parents thatis part of the job, it's just
life as a parent.
But we have to start taking aninventory and seeing like, okay,
well, what's one or two smallthings I can do to increase my
bandwidth in these areas andreduce my vulnerability?
Maybe it's that I just get awater bottle and I like have it

(52:29):
with me all day so that I'mgetting more hydrated.
Do not underestimate how muchdehydration can make you
vulnerable to gettingdysregulated, like if anybody
has kids at camp this summer,you will know, because they are
all dehydrated and they comehome hot mess.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Because like they're not drinking anything.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Nobody is going to be patient when they're thirsty,
and we don't often registerthirst, so like that, I think,
is something that sounds sominimal and non-relevant to
anything we're talking about,but it is like, and just in
general, like taking care ofourself.
It is like, and just in general, like taking care of ourself.

(53:10):
It sounds so cliche, but itmakes us better parents because
it gives us more bandwidth tostay regulated.
Yeah, there's a directrelationship between prefrontal
cortex activation and a lot ofthese like basic needs for
caring for ourselves that caringfor ourselves part could be a
whole other conversation too.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Because you know, whenever I talk to parents, even
parents who are single parentsthey say what do you, what do
you think I can possibly do whenit comes to taking care of
myself?
And I know I was raised by asingle mom and I saw there was
never any downtime, you know,and I think that that's a really
hard part, that we need toacknowledge that sometimes it is
very difficult to do thataspect of it, but that the fact

(53:48):
that you can change how you'rethinking or feeling in those
moments, I see it a little bitas self-care because you're not
being as hard on yourself andthere are little, little tiny
changes that we can do in howwe're thinking and how we're
behaving and how we'reresponding to our kids.
That will feel good.
And, and to me, that wassomething that I learned after
having my third child, because Ihad them very close in age, so

(54:11):
it was like back to back andnever having any time to myself,
and then everything exploded,everything.
Just it was really intense forme because I had two in diapers
and the pandemic hit and threekids under four and I just
didn't know how to cope witheverything because I couldn't
breathe.
That's what it felt like, youknow, and when you have that
feeling that you're just likenot getting the moment to

(54:32):
breathe, you just let go ofeverything, including yourself,
and you just you can't doanything anymore.
So that self-care piece is aconversation on its own, but I
just want to acknowledge it andsay like sometimes we self-care
might not be stepping out of thehouse if we can't, but
self-care can be.
That, how I feel about myself,and that love for myself is what
changes how I respond to mychild as well yes, and

(54:53):
self-compassion is part ofself-care.
It's huge, yeah yeah, it is yeahand it's available.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
like even if you are, you know, have very low
resources for support,self-compassion is there and
it's not easy to make accessible.
I also, like you know, we talkabout resources, right.
Sometimes it's like, oh yeah,well, I can't get to get a
babysitter, and that we have toacknowledge that that's not
always accessible.

(55:20):
Self-compassion isn't alwayseasily accessible, but it is
present.
It's there inside.
You can do some work to be ableto get access to it, because it
does exist inside of you.
It's there.
You were born with it.
We are born with the capacityfor self-compassion.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
And that ability, I think, to recognize that you're
feeling dysregulated, even formyself, with three young kids,
in those moments when I justcouldn't deal with it anymore
and I had no idea what to do andgoing out wasn't an option
because I was stuck here andnobody can come and help me.
It was a you know what Screw it.
Uh, we're going to the bath.
Here's a popsicle, have fun.
I'm going to sip a coffee, andthat's what self-care looks like

(55:59):
for me in that moment.
It's just.
I know that we can't leave andI can't get somebody to come.
Forget our routine, forget ourschedule.
I'm not making dinner, you knowwhat I mean.
Like it's those moments whereyou're like that's it, like this
is what I need right now, inthe moment.
And you know what's funny, it'salways been those moments that
they remember, those momentswhere I was like too bad, eff it
, I'm not doing anything rightnow.

(56:20):
And they were like rememberthat day where we had pizza, the
park, and we didn't do anythingelse?
That day?

Speaker 1 (56:26):
You know, like they remember those moments, it's so
interesting yeah, Like I'vedefinitely definitely had those
like full day pajama days withlike a three movie marathon with
our kids, and I'm napping onthe couch, like I am not ashamed
to admit that, like those, Ineed those days sometimes and
that's self-care.
It's like was it a spa day?
Hell, no.

(56:47):
Was it a hot mess?
Yeah.
Was it relaxing for me?
Yeah, it was.
Did I dial it in?
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I'm okay with that.
Yeah, and we need to be okaywith saying that out loud,
because I think some people feellike that's bad parenting.
No, it's not bad parenting whenyou take care of yourself, so I
just wanted to bring that up.
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
That feels like a really, really important point
to highlight.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah, thank you for everything that we chatted about
.
I do want to take a moment.
I want you to talk about yourpodcast, because it's doing so
well and I want people to hearabout it, and I'll put the link
in the show notes and the courseas well.
I'm sure there are parents whowant to know, like, how do I
access those links and learnmore about them?
So please share everything thatthey could access and how to
find you Love it Amazing.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Thank you I.
It's so funny because you'vebeen on the podcast and we're
about to do another episode, soI'm super excited.
But my podcast is calledsecurely attached and it's it's
really about um, rooted inattachment theory.
Um, I kind of look ateverything through an attachment
theory lens but looking atemotion regulation and looking

(57:52):
at helping parents kind ofunderstand their children's
brains and bodies when they arehaving hard times, when they're
doing challenging stuff and howto navigate that.
We also talk a lot about likeparental mental health, because
I kind of the way I sort of seeit is like there's this Venn
diagram of like, like raisinghealthy kids and like parental
mental health and like I don'tsee those things overlapping so

(58:14):
much sometimes.
You do a very amazing job ofthat.
That's why I love your work.
But, like I think you know,sometimes people just focus on
one at the expense of the other,and then some or the other at
the expense of the other, andthen some or the other at the
expense of the other, and so Imy goal with the podcast was
securely attached is to likereally give parents information.
That's like research backed.
I don't like to tell parentswhat to do so much.

(58:37):
I'm more like let me give youthe info and help you be an
educated consumer of all theparenting content out there.
So that's really what securelyattached has become and I'm I'm
like content out there.
So that's really what securelyattached has become and I'm I'm
like it's been so much fun.
I love it.
So you can get that.
You can find that whereveryou're listening to this podcast
.
And then I have I have a coursecalled the science of tantrums,

(58:57):
which I spoke about a little bitearlier in a workshop that kind
of is connected to it, calledbe the calm in your child storm.
And then I actually have Ididn't tell you this, but I have
a new program that I'mlaunching in September.
I don't even have a name for ityet, but I've run it before as
a therapy group in my privatepractice, but it's for parents
of two to seven year olds whohave kids who are like, have

(59:20):
really sort of like big feelings, big behaviors, and they feel
like all the things that they'redoing to try to support their
kids just aren't working, likethey're following all the rules
but like it doesn't seem to workfor their kid.
I feel like I get that so muchin my practice where they're
like I'm doing all the thingsand it doesn't work for my kid
and I'm like, okay, well, let'slook at what you're doing,
because usually parents areusing the right tools but

(59:40):
they're using them at the wrongtime, and so this course is a
lot about helping parents kindof figure out when do I use the
tools that I've been taught, howdo I do it effectively.
So it's an eight-week programwhere we meet weekly and kind of
work on this.
So I don't have a name for ityet.
If your listeners have anyideas, I would love to like

(01:00:01):
crowdsource some good names forthis course.
So, yeah, you can go on myinstagram at dr sarah brun and
dm me some ideas, but it's it'sgonna be fun.
It's it's like small groups.
So it's like me and 10 familiesand, um, just kind of like
really getting into it for eightweeks on how to like understand
what's going on for their kidsso I can share that information

(01:00:24):
when I have it got it.
But it's such important work.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
I think we need that.
We touched on it.
But like when that child's kindof at the top and they're
completely dysregulated, I hearparents say but I did all of
this and said this and tried totell them, like you know, take
deep breaths and nothing workedand it's like because that was
the wrong time.
It's just too late at thatpoint, but it's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
But the intention is there right?
I feel like parents have somuch information these days and
sometimes it's like it's veryhard to sort through it all, and
so they're just kind of liketaking what they are, you know,
being thrown at constantly andtrying to figure out for
themselves how to apply it.
You know it's so it's likeabout the application.
It's like, yeah, actually thesetools really I do think are the

(01:01:07):
most effective, but you alsoneed some help in how you apply
it, because I don't think italways is.
That part isn't always taught.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
True.
Thank you again for chattingwith me.
I know we'll chat againsometime soon and until then,
you guys can follow Sarah onlineand I'll put all the links in
the show notes, thank you.
Thank you, I hope you enjoyedour conversation.
Please take a moment tosubscribe to the Curious Neuron
podcast, to rate it and to leavea review.
Follow us on Instagram atcurious underscore neuron, and
if you're looking for articlesthat are based on science that

(01:01:36):
will help you with yourparenting, please visit
curiousneuroncom.
I will see you next time.
Have a beautiful and wonderfulweek.
Bye.

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