October 1, 2024 • 62 mins
Jess Brosnan is a naturopath specializing in circadian biology and its application to children's health. We discuss the critical role of circadian rhythms in children and practical strategies the overcoming the modern toxic artificial light environment.
Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction to Circadian Health
00:01:28 The Importance of Circadian Rhythms for Children
00:05:09 Societal Disruptions to Circadian Rhythms
00:10:40 The Impact of Technology on Child Development
00:15:11 Understanding Virtual Autism
00:20:53 The Role of Natural Light in Child Health
00:26:43 Implementing Healthy Circadian Routines
00:32:50 Nutrition and Meal Timing for Better Sleep
00:39:49 The Effects of Sleep Deprivation on Children
00:42:23 The Dangers of Artificial Melatonin
00:49:41 Sunscreen and Sunglasses: A Different Perspective
00:55:06 Final Thoughts and Resources
Follow Jess
Instagram @circadian.kids - https://www.instagram.com/circadian.kids?igsh=enE2MTRzcXViYTlm&utm_source=qr
Rhythm Reset for Kids Program - https://jessica-louise.mykajabi.com/rhythmresetforkids
Follow DR MAX
Website: https://drmaxgulhane.com/
Private Group: https://www.skool.com/dr-maxs-circadian-reset
Courses: https://drmaxgulhane.com/collections/courses
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MaxGulhaneMD
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr_max_gulhane/
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1661751206
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6edRmG3IFafTYnwQiJjhwR
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/maxgulhanemd
DISCLAIMER: The content in this podcast is purely for informational purposes and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast or YouTube channel. Do not make medication changes without first consulting your treating clinician.
#circadianrhythms ,#circadianrhythm #virtualautism #sun #sunlight #melatonin #nutrition #parentingtips #wellness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Regenerative Health Podcast.
Today I am interviewing JessBrosnan.
Now.
She is a naturopath and aspecialist in implementing
circadian biology and itspractical lifestyle behaviors
and modifications as it relatesto children and to women,
pregnant women, babies andfamilies.
(00:20):
So, jess, thank you very muchfor speaking with me.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me me.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me on.
I'm really excited aboutchatting, all about this.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, so I see children in my clinical practice
and you obviously see childrenevery day in your group and
online coaching and think thatthis is an area of health and I
use the term health to reallymean the whole kind of public
health and the health of theworld that is so
(00:50):
underappreciated and so justsimply misunderstood that it's
almost remarkable and thereforethe opportunity is so great to
help people and improve so manyconditions, is so great to help
people and improve so manyconditions.
So maybe explain to us how youexplain the idea of circadian
(01:11):
rhythms to your clients and whyare circadian rhythms so
important for kids and families?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, oh, wow.
So I just like develop this bigpassion to really like shift
the health paradigm for our kidsright, so we can like have
these happy, healthy, thriving,connected kids.
And so I have fallen intoteaching mothers basically how
to sync their child's circadianrhythm to help them set up this
(01:44):
foundation of, you know, optimalsleep, great energy, thriving
hormones, and then that leadsinto the longevity, like their
long-term health, and thisreally includes, you know,
honoring the light and darkcycles from sunrise to sunset.
So let's have a look, I mean inregards to why circadian
(02:04):
rhythms are important for ourkids.
I think you know our children'scircadian rhythms and their
mitochondria, which is, you know, the energy powerhouses of
their cells, really plays thislike significant role in our
child's health.
So everything from sleep tobrain development to hormone
production, everything fromsleep to brain development to
(02:27):
hormone production, so much more.
So if we think about sleepwhich I generally see a lot of
mothers coming to me about theirkids' sleep so if their child
has a healthy, functioningcircadian rhythm and
mitochondria, then it allowsthem to have this regulated
sleep pattern.
You know, the child is able tofall asleep without their brains
being so wired but their body'sbeen so tired.
(02:50):
It ensures, you know, healthyamounts of melatonin, which is
their sleep hormone.
What else it helps to have thatdeep, quality sleep and you know
this is really important forour children Like this is when
their bodies are able to repairand heal when it's nighttime.
Also, you know, helps toregulate a child's nervous
(03:11):
system, which is, you know, soimportant to have good mental
and emotional health.
And then you know things liketheir hormone.
You know their hormones, thecorrect balance and release of
hormones at the right time ofthe day, and this is important
for all ages, but particularlyfor kids who are going through
(03:32):
puberty.
And then other things you know,like a strong, healthy immune
system, a healthy digestion andmetabolism, which is really good
for you know, good gut health.
And then, I think, finally,like to sum it up having a good,
healthy rhythm and good habits.
You know that is really goingto lead them in the right
(03:52):
direction to adulthood, and thisincludes having healthy rhythms
to start their morning and thenfor kids to actually wind down
like this is going to supportthe healthy functioning of you
know-being in their body rightand through into adulthood.
It's basically setting thefoundations for these kids.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, I really love that framing.
I think it is fundamentallysetting a foundation for a
healthy lifestyle into theirchildhood, adolescence and
adulthood.
We are, are and I use the termwe are kind of very broadly a
modern society is has found alot of ways to disrupt humans
(04:36):
and therefore children'scircadian rhythm.
Explain, from your point ofview, what society has done
wrong to basically put a spannerin the works of this critically
important bodily function.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, you know, we live in this tech-driven world
that is literally saturated inartificial light, like we are
quite literally bathingourselves and our children in
artificial light 24-7, you know,with these big bright lights
(05:14):
that are causing this internalcircadian storm inside our
children that we can't even see.
And you know, I'm not surprisedby the conversations that I hear
now where kids are up all nightlong playing video games and
they can't get to sleep withoutan iPad, going to bed with an
(05:35):
iPad and then needing to wake upduring the night to get back on
their iPad.
These conversations used toshock me a couple of years ago
when I heard them, but now theyhave become so normal that
nothing really shocks me anymore.
And I just I think that youknow the four I would say the
(05:55):
four which I've kind of likepulled all together and what
I've listened to the mothersthat are coming to my page and
what I've understood is that thefour biggest contributors to
our children's ill health andthese ailments that they're
experiencing is lack of sunlight, this addiction to technology,
because technology is incrediblyaddictive, especially for young
(06:19):
developing brains and thendisconnection to nature, because
our kids are getting less thanan hour on average of time
outdoors these days and thenexcessive saturation and
exposure to blue light at night.
I feel that these are thefoundations that are really
(06:40):
causing these kids to have allsorts of different health
ailments and the ill health ofour children today, and the
thing is they are allpreventable.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, and I really think that the behaviors or the
environment that the child is inis reflecting the adult's
environment and it reflects theenvironment that adults are kind
of cultivating for their kids.
Just like the kid's going toeat, if the parents put
Coca-Cola in the bottle, thekid's going to drink Coca-Cola.
If the parents are blaring amassive widescreen TV and having
(07:17):
everyone's got an iPad or adevice at 8 pm at night, then
the kids are going to really dothe same.
So I think it's just anotherunintentional way that parents
are actually unknowinglysabotaging their children's
health.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, 100%, and we're all just doing the best
that we can do with the toolsthat we have and this knowledge,
this wisdom of circadianrhythms.
I call it a remembering becauseour biology is never going to
change Like this is the way thatour biology works, and that's
in partnership with the sun.
(07:54):
Right, so that's never, evergoing to change, but we have
forgotten along the way how ourbiology works in partnership
with nature and with the sun,and when we honor that, that is
when we thrive in our health andwell-being.
And the more that we disconnectfrom that, the more that we are
(08:14):
seeing these crazy healthelements in our children.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, and I definitely want to get into the
exact kind of different diseasesor different.
I definitely want to get intothe exact kind of different
diseases or different conditionsdevelopmental disorders that
are probably both causallylinked to circadian disruption,
artificial light at night,sunlight and vitamin D
deficiency, but also greatlyexacerbated because they lie on
the causal pathway.
(08:39):
So they're both going to be acause and an exacerbation.
I want to make a quickreference to an earlier podcast
when I interviewed Dr Jack Cruz,who a lot of people who are
going down this light andcircadian rhythm rabbit hole
will know about, and if youhaven't heard of his work, then
(09:00):
go back and listen to my earlierpodcast with him and some of
his other podcasts on on youtube.
But, uh, he made the amusingbut and maybe slightly
hyperbolic, but I I don'tactually think it's.
It's hyperbolic.
Uh, when you understand thecircadian biology.
He said giving your kid, givinga kid an ipad like the digital
(09:21):
babysitter at night, is, youknow, is the equivalent of, of
kicking the you know, you knowwhat out of night is the
equivalent of kicking theyou-know-what out of them in the
middle of Sydney airport, andit's a characteristic delivery
by Dr Cruz, but that kind ofspeaks to the impact of really
disrupting this finely tunedhormonal balance that is so
(09:43):
dependent on light-dark signalsand I've talked about it at
length which is, you know, weneed both.
We need the bright sunlightduring the day which you
mentioned, as kids are beingsunlight deficient, but we also
need absence of light at night,and that I mean they've got to
be very, very close in terms of,you know, ways that people are
(10:03):
kind of unintentionally doingthings wrong because, as you've
said, this tech addiction isleading us, um, to spend all day
inside and to to light up thenight in the way that it hasn't
previously been yeah, 100.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
and it's so addictive even for adults right, like
even adults struggle to containthemselves with not waking up
first thing and checking andscrolling their phone.
You know, like that is howaddictive it is for us, so it
almost should be illegal forchildren to have these devices
so readily available to them.
(10:39):
I mean, there's not many kids,like little kids, these days
that don't own an iPad.
You know like it is just socommon and unfortunately, like
that once you have an iPad, andespecially if there are no
boundaries around that iPad,that child can become heavily
(11:00):
addicted to this screen.
And it's like trying to takethat screen away from a child is
like almost like a drug addicttrying to take something off
them.
You know, like that is howserious it is, and especially
kids from zero to six, who aredeveloping their brains.
(11:20):
You know there's so much wiringand neurotransmitters firing at
that age and when we have thisscreen in our face it's actually
causing way more havoc than wemay ever know.
It's causing all sorts of crazybehavioral issues.
I've seen it in my own kids andI remember I've seen it in my
(11:48):
own kids, you know, and like Iremember about five years ago
when I was in the thick ofmotherhood and I was using
screens as a way as a babysitter.
You know like I was so stretchedthin because I was sleep
deprived.
My kids weren't sleeping and Iwas.
I tell this story and it justit like blows my mind that I
used to do this, but I wasfeeling so stretched with
(12:09):
motherhood at the time that oncethe kids finally went to bed, I
would grab out an ice cream orchocolate bar and I would sit on
the couch and watch three crazyamounts of episodes on Netflix
until you know 12, one o'clockin the morning, and what I would
do is I'd get two bananas andthe remote control and I would
put it on the coffee table,already programmed to ABC Kids.
(12:33):
And the kids were in a habitual, you know, habit of just going
straight to the TV in themorning because they were waking
up at five o'clock and I didnot want to wake up at five
o'clock, and so I was in thisvicious cycle.
And this is the thing.
A lot of parents, especiallymothers, are in this vicious
cycle and they don't know a wayout.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, it is profoundly harmful and you know
before we.
I really want you to expand onthat and maybe you can talk
about this interesting post youdid recently about virtual
autism.
But I'll make the point quicklythat why is this so harmful?
And I think the iPad use is notonly are we blasting the babies
(13:17):
developing eyes and retina withthis high energy visible light
which is actually next to UV, sothese are high-energy photons
and they cause oxidative stressand they cause death of you know
oxidative stress and death ofthese you know retinal ganglion
cells.
So not only are we impacting theactual potential, causing
(13:38):
vision issues and that likeleads to myopia and other
conditions, but we're alsoobviously disrupting the
circadian rhythm and these iPadsare emitting radiofrequency
radiation immediately, likeleads to myopia and other
conditions, but we're alsoobviously disrupting the
circadian rhythm and these iPadsare emitting radio frequency
radiation immediately, like Isee a consult room last week
that the infant was holding theiPad you know on its lap.
So it is irradiating itsundeveloped breast tissue, its
(14:02):
gonads, its ovaries directly andanyone who's looking into the
non-native EMF side of healthknows that this inverse square
law is like we need to get thesedevices as far away from the
body to reduce essentiallyirradiation as much as possible.
(14:22):
So, yeah, just to quickly makethat point, that this is why we
should avoid giving our kidsthese devices, but please talk
to us about the effects thatyou've seen and this idea of,
yeah, perhaps virtual autism.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and you know that's a really good point you
make about the non-native EMFs.
It's actually a really biginterest point I've had for many
, many years, before I even wasintroduced to circadian rhythms
by Dr Jack Cruz, of course, but,like I would say, for about the
last 15 years we turn the Wi-Fioff at nighttime and we've been
doing that for an incrediblylong time, and then we actually
(15:02):
our entire house is now cabledso we don't have to use Wi-Fi at
all.
We've just, you know, come along way.
Yeah, that's a big, actually abig elephant in the room and I
go quite deep into that, into myrhythm reset for kids, because
it's not talked about enough,right, like it's.
Like you said, there's so manydifferent aspects for a child of
having a screen in front oftheir face.
(15:22):
You know it's causing asuppression of melatonin and
dopamine as well, and you knowthe eyes and the skin cannot
differentiate between naturalsunlight and artificial light.
So if our kids are going to bedwith an iPad or you know
they're exposed to theseartificial we've got artificial
(15:43):
suns on the roof, big, brightlights.
Their brains are gettingconfused and that's why they
become wide, they get thissecond wind and their bodies and
brains believe that it'sdaytime again, and so, you know,
everything fires back up,whereas everything is meant to
be winding down.
And that's why we use, you know, circadian friendly lighting,
(16:04):
you know, red lights and lightsthat don't have flicker in them,
lights that don't have thisartificial blue light.
You know, these are the signals, the flicker and the blue light
that's sending to the brainthat it's daytime.
It's daytime, wake up, wake up.
And then we're wondering whyour kids are struggling to wind
down and to fall asleep.
(16:25):
Like I remember, my kids usedto take up to two hours to go to
bed.
This is from the moment thatthey're in bed to actually
falling asleep.
And now, applying all of theprinciples of circadian rhythms,
like, I kid you not, my kidsare asleep in one to two minutes
or less when the light goes out.
(16:47):
And I'm not talking about thebig bright lights on the roof,
because we don't use thoseanymore.
I'm talking about, you know,like a block, a blue block book
lamp.
Right, that's either red or,really, you know, dark orange.
And so that promotes sleep andthat helps the brain and the
body to wind down and know thatit's time for sleep and that
(17:07):
helps the production and releaseof melatonin as well.
And so, yeah, there's this termcalled virtual autism and, not
to get confused with thediagnosed autism spectrum
disorder, asd, which is more ofa genetic cause, virtual autism
is a term that was formulated in2018.
And it was under observationwith young children I think it
(17:32):
was under three and thesechildren showed autistic-like
symptoms due to excessive screentime.
So it was done with kids whowere looking at screens for more
than four hours and you knowthese kids, rather than engaging
with the world around them andtouch and movement and
(17:52):
interacting and play, they werespending a lot of time excessive
time in front of screens and sothis is messing with their
development.
You know it was hindering theirway and ability to talk and to
think and interact with theworld around them.
And, yeah, I was totally mindblown when I heard this term
(18:14):
virtual autism.
But generally for kids, whatthey can see is kids under three
who are having excessive screentime of more than four hours,
and that does sound like a lot,but if your TV is on or the iPad
is readily available for themat any time, four hours, you
know, really isn't that much,but that is what it is causing.
(18:34):
Certain brain chemicals likemelanopsin, dopamine, GABA, like
all your neurotransmitters, ina you know deficiency and
pathway.
That is not good for ourchildren's development.
It's causing behavioral changes, low cognitive function,
delayed speech and I tell youwhat delayed speech is a huge
(18:59):
issue for a lot of young kidsand so, yeah, is there a direct
link to screens?
It's definitely becoming a morecommon conversation and a
conversation that needs to behad more.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, it's remarkable and I think, to use an
ancestral lens, if you imagine achild growing up prior to the
development of electricity,which was in the late 1800s, the
child would be in around afamily unit, maybe playing
outside the grass, while men arecutting up an animal or
(19:39):
preparing and making a net orsomething.
The kid might be climbing overmom and dad, it's grounded, it's
outside, it's experiencingartificial sorry, completely
natural light, and when the sungoes down maybe there's a bit of
firelight, but the kid's goingto be out like a light, out like
your children are when they'reimplementing these types of
behaviors.
I mean, what we're doing todayis such a radical departure from
(20:03):
that routine and I think we doneed to just join the dots from
a health point of view, andcommonly it's not uncommon that
in general practice we'll see achild who is having behavioral
issues, whether that is a formaldiagnosis of ASD, autism
spectrum disorder, and perhapseven or often ADHD at the same
(20:28):
time, and they've seen thepediatrician and they just get
put on melatonin, they get puton supplemental melatonin and
you can bet your bottom dollarthat that child is using tech,
is using screens and has an iPad, is free reign of an iPad and
this is where you know thesympathy and the empathy comes
in is because if that child hasalready behaved really difficult
(20:51):
, you know you can understandwhy the parent might provide
that for them, but they're justobviously not understanding that
this could be completelyexacerbating the underlying
problem.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's a complete coping mechanism for parents.
You know I've been there andyou know I just don't have like
I don't hold any judgment, Ithink, because I've been there
and I remember, like I stillfeel it in my body, how it felt
for me in that struggle andbeing so stretched as a parent
because I was so sleep deprived.
(21:23):
And I remember just, you knowit would get to three, four
o'clock and I just have this,like you know, pit in my stomach
thinking about I've got to gothrough this again tonight.
You know, like the kids comingin and out constantly, like not
going to sleep, and I justremember like that you know
vicious cycle of getting angryat them, feeling very
(21:45):
unregulated, and I just wantedmy time by myself.
Unfortunately it wasn't ahealthy way.
I was spending my me time untilone o'clock in the morning and
but I didn't know at the timeand so when, and this is why
it's so important to share andspread this message right, like
I was just a mother.
You know, yes, I was anaturopath, but I was actually
(22:07):
specializing in women's healthand fertility, not in children's
health at all.
And then, you know, I was hitrock bottom and I hit complete
rock bottom.
I ended up, you know, feelingvery stretched, sleep deprived,
but actually hurt my knee and Ihad to go under emergency
surgery and I ended up being ina full leg brace for six knee
and I had to go under emergencysurgery and I ended up being in
a full leg brace for six weeks.
(22:27):
And I remember saying to myhusband, about two weeks after
it happened, I just said I can'tdo this anymore, like something
has to change.
And we ended up I said I just Iwant to travel Australia.
And he was like what, okay?
And we just made it happenbecause he knew how bad of a
place that I was in with mymental health and my physical
(22:47):
health was declining.
So we made it happen and sixweeks later we were on the road
and what I saw which I didn'tlink at the time, but the kids
started sleeping better becausethey were spending 80% of their
time outdoors.
We were in a caravan, we didn'ttake any tech, we traveled the
entire of Australia with no techfor the kids whatsoever.
And so, yeah, I didn't make theconnection, but they started
(23:11):
sleeping better, they were moreregulated, they were happier.
I started sleeping better.
And then it was funny becauseabout four weeks into the trip I
actually fell pregnant with ourthird baby.
And then it was just after that.
That is when I say accidentally,because I clicked onto a
podcast that literally changedthe whole trajectory of my life.
(23:32):
There was a podcast that I waslooking for and I opened up my
podcast app and there was thispodcast that said light, water
and magnetism.
But it didn't.
It didn't like get me.
I was like that doesn't soundvery interesting.
But in brackets it saidexplicit language and I was like
that sounds interesting, I'mgonna listen to that.
(23:53):
And it was by neurosurgeon DrDr Jack Cruz, and I started
listening and within two minutesmy mind was blown.
I didn't learn any of this innaturopathic college, nothing at
all and I just couldn't believeit.
And from that moment forward,that was when I watched my very
first intentional sunrise and Isay intentional because I've
(24:14):
watched plenty of sunrises, youknow, in my early twenties,
after coming out the nightclub,but never actually, you know,
got up intentionally to watchthe sunrise, and that was nearly
five years ago and I've justbeen completely hooked.
And so my children's livestransformed, mine transformed.
And then, three years ofactually living this way, I
(24:35):
started to get more and morepeople asking me about what are
you doing?
Like, how are your kids sohealthy?
You know all these questionsand I got to a point, was like I
can't not share this.
You know, like I feel like it'smy sacred duty now to actually
share this because I know howmuch it can help these
struggling mothers with theseyoung children who, you know,
aren't in thriving health likethey should be in their
childhood right, who aren't inthriving health like they should
(24:57):
be in their childhood right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and I think the kind of social zeitgeist is
more appreciation of the role offoods, of holistic food, whole
food, sourcing, ofnutrient-dense animal foods.
I think there's certainaccounts in social media and
Instagram that are reallypromoting those ideas more
widely, but there is a hole forinformation and for education
(25:21):
about light environment, aboutcircadian rhythms for kids and,
as you and I both know that thisis such a kind of missing piece
, can you speak to what you'venoticed, speak to your routine
that you follow with your familyand what you teach your clients
?
And, yeah, again, just expandon the improvements that you see
(25:43):
with the circadian lifestylebehaviors.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, so there's so many.
I just get the most incrediblemessages.
Like every day over myInstagram there's another
message from a mother saying youknow, just thank you so much,
just these, simple.
And this is the thing.
It is really simple.
It doesn't have to be hard,it's not complicated.
I don't make it complicated.
I don't talk about all thebiology.
I keep it really simple becausethat is what mothers need.
(26:11):
You know, they don't need anextra thing or they don't need,
like you know, give me a 20 pagehandout.
I just want the simplicity ofit, and so I tell them a lot of
stories about my family.
What we do I think that's whatpeople love is like I share from
a real life aspect.
You know, like what we do on adaily basis and so, yeah, like
(26:32):
we wake up naturally with thesun.
You know, like the first thingthat my kid says I want to go
outside.
My three-year-old is like theepitome of what I would call a
circadian kid.
He is.
He was the one I was 16 weekspregnant with when I listened to
that podcast, and so I watched,from 16 weeks pregnant, every
single sunrise and I was out inthe daylight sunshine for four
(26:55):
to six hours a day, bare feet onthe earth.
You know the earth.
All my eating rhythms were insync with the sunrise to sunset,
blocked blue light at night.
And this kid was born theminute the sun came up.
I kid you not, he is a sunrisebaby and he has just been a
dream and third child and allquite close together.
(27:16):
Most mothers are quitestretched in that time when
you've got three little children.
And I absolutely thrived, andstill am, with three kids and
that's because I honor, you know, the light dark cycles with our
whole family.
We all do it together.
And now I want to talk intothis because it's not always
easy to make these changes.
It's definitely easier withlittle kids.
(27:37):
I will tell you that Once theyget a bit older.
You know, to try and changehabits is a bit harder.
Partners, husbands yes, alittle bit trickier, but you
know it's just these microchanges.
You know it's these smalllittle changes.
Get the kids out first thing inthe morning, you know, like it's
(28:00):
the first thing that we do.
We always say you know sunlightbefore artificial light.
So we get up in the morning andif the sun's not up because in
the winter it's not always upwhen the kids wake up, we have
the red lights.
If you're on the video, you cansee behind me I've got a red
strip in the kitchen.
It's a blue, blocking red strip.
So there's no flicker, there'sno artificial light and it
allows the kids to wake up morenaturally and not this
heightened state of you know.
(28:21):
You wake up and the brightlights are on and their internal
circadian rhythms are just likegone haywire the moment they've
woken up and that heightenstheir nervous system.
And so when they walk outside,you know that beautiful infrared
light, that morning sunlight isjust so potent for our children
, their brains and their bodiesand that you know production of
(28:41):
that first production of theirmelatonin.
And you know, I didn't knowthis, I didn't understand that
when I was putting my kids infront of the TV before the sun
was even up, I had no idea thatwas affecting their hormone
production and affecting theirsleep, nighttime Like.
No one ever told me that, andthat is why I love to get this
message out.
(29:02):
And so, yeah, the kids go outand the first thing they do is
ground their feet, they jump on.
We have this huge, funky monkeybar at the front which is like
two big monkey bars.
It's a big flying fox.
We've made the front yard veryenticing for the kids to go out,
right, because kids are notgoing to go outside if there's
nothing to do or play.
(29:23):
We have a tree that they canclimb in.
We've got grass that they canplay footy and cricket, like.
We make it very entertainingfor them.
Because, you know, I think thething is with parents and toys
houses are so overstimulated,like with toys and gadgets, that
kids actually don't want to gooutside.
(29:43):
You know they're happy insidebecause there's so many things
going on.
The things that I did early onwas like get rid of the toy room
, get rid of the toy room, andwhen we buy things for them for
their birthdays, it's all to dowith outdoor play.
That, like that, is one of thekeys to get the kids outside
more.
And I tell you what we live inone of the hottest places in
Australia and so there's noexcuse that the kids it's too
(30:06):
hot outside.
Our kids are still outside.
They adapt as well and, yes, itdoes get very hot and very
sweaty, but the kids are used tobeing outside right, they're
used to climbing trees and theywant to be outside.
That is like a natural.
A kid's life force, right Like,we are all connected, we are
all nature, but kids, they aremore, less conditioned, they're
(30:27):
more connected to nature thanadults are, and so that is
literally their life force, thatis their energy force, and so
they need to be outside more.
So, yeah, we have breakfastoutside and then we um the kids
go to go to a school just astreet away from us.
So we always walk or ride toschool, get their bodies active,
and then as soon as they gethome, it's like they have a
(30:49):
little rhythm.
You know I'm all about rhythms.
I think it's really importantto have predictability of what's
going on in their lives and asthey get their shoes off, you
know uniforms, off lunch boxes,on bench and they're straight
outside either jumping in thepool or they're on the funky
monkey bar, but it's alwaysoutside and they have about four
hours of sunlight until the sungoes down, and then it's dinner
(31:09):
.
Dinner is always done beforesunset, always because that
allows a kid's digestion toreally you know their metabolism
, to really like wind downproperly.
You know a kid going to bedwith full stomach like is really
going to struggle to have goodquality sleep, and let her know.
(31:30):
You know, so many kids thesedays are eating dinner under
artificial light, which we knowis affecting the way that
they're actually metabolizingtheir food as well.
So this is like, yeah, thebasics of our rhythm is getting
the kids outside as much aspossible.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a very, very goodroutine.
And to summarize quickly,that'll be get your kids
outdoors seeing sunlight, beforeany kind of screens.
Maximize the amount of timethat they're spending outdoors
in natural light, eating themeals outdoors, obviously,
seeing sunrise and sunset if youcan, and, yeah, eating and
(32:10):
finishing those last meals wellbefore sleep.
I like to tell people at leastthree to four hours, and some
people who have difficultysleeping find that pairing that
sleeping time back to 3 pm, 2 pm, going all the way back to
before noon, can even make realimprovements in sleep quality.
And just to really emphasizethe point is that that morning
(32:32):
light contains it does contain alittle bit of blue.
It contains enough blue to giveus a bit of cortisol spike to
start the day natural blue, butit's always paired with red and
infrared and that is in starkcontrast to the artificial blue
that the kid is going to get ifthey flick on Looney Tunes,
cartoon Network I don't knowwhat kids watch these days, but
(32:56):
what is confusing is causingcircadian rhythm disruption and
we know from the literature it'sjust growing longer and longer
and longer in terms of thenumber of conditions that are
associated with circadian rhythmdisruption.
And you mentioned mistimed meals.
In adults, that's a risk factorfor developing insulin
(33:16):
resistance, depositing visceralfat because, fundamentally, the
gut clocks are uncoupled they'redesynchronized from the master
clock in the suprachiasmaticnucleus.
I want to make the point thatthis is not unfounded in its
scientific evidence.
This is well, well documentedthroughout the literature.
This was the 2017 Nobel Prizewas for mechanisms related to
(33:40):
the molecular clock operation,so this is not something that
can be dismissed, but theinnovation that you're doing,
jess, is translating thismessage for normal people who
don't have a scientificbackground, who don't have a
biomedical research background,who don't understand the clock
(34:03):
genes and don't need to how tobenefit their health.
So that's really amazing stuff.
Do you mind sharing again justsome stories of some of the
clients that you've seen, andmaybe perhaps ones that have had
pre-existing behavioral issues,whether that's ADHD or ASD,
(34:24):
autism?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
yeah, oh, there's so many amazing ones, but there's
always one that really sticksout for me, and this was at the
beginning of the year, beautifulmother who came into my rhythm
reset for kids, and she's gottwo boys and the eldest boy, who
was nine.
He is on the autistic spectrumand he, for many, many years,
(34:46):
had to regulate himself with ascreen when he first woke up, so
he had an iPad next to his bed.
He'd wake up, he'd go to thescreen First thing, he'd be on
it for about half an hour, up toan hour, and then he'd come out
and greet the family, andthat's also how he went to bed
as well, and the mother was justlike.
This is just how he regulateshimself and I don't know another
way.
However, it's causing all ofthese.
(35:09):
You know anger and outbursts,and you know he's becoming
recluse and you know he's notcoming out and speaking or
playing with his younger brother, and so we just implemented and
tweaked a few little things totheir rhythm, and this is a
thing like this is really easy,it doesn't have to be hard, and
all we got him to do was hismother to invite him outside in
(35:32):
the morning.
So he woke up and she went inthere first thing and said hey,
I've got something to show you.
Do you want to come out andhave a look?
And they went outside bare feeton the ground.
The sun was just coming up.
They were literally out therefor less than two minutes, right
.
And he came back inside and hisdad said I don't have any milk,
I need to go to the shops.
And this young boy said I'll goto the shops.
(35:54):
It was literally just acrossthe road.
He'd never done it before, he'dnever, ever, put his hand up to
do anything.
And the mom and dad looked ateach other and were just like,
okay, all right, let's do it.
Sure.
And so he went across to theshops, he got the milk and he
also got himself a juice.
And the mom was like, oh mygoodness, his younger brother is
going to, you know, completelylose it because he doesn't have
(36:17):
his other brother Juice.
And he came back in and hisyounger brother was like oh my
God, I am so proud of you.
You just went to the shops allby yourself.
And he had the biggest smile onhis face and he forgot about
the screen.
He didn't go to the screen, andthen he sat down and had
breakfast with the family andshe said this is the first time
that he has done it in years andhe had an amazing day.
(36:38):
And then she has just got anincredible transformation ever
since.
That was day one, and then shecame through the four-week
program with me and by the endof it she was a completely
different person because she wasspending more time outside as
well.
This is the thing, like adultsaren't spending enough time
outside and we actually need toget out there with the kids too.
So she bought the kids a littletent I think they live in the
(37:01):
UK Bought them a little tent andthey would just play for hours
and hours in and out the tent,you know, in the backyard
kicking the ball now getting outpuzzles outside, whereas they
never really.
The kids, the two boys, didn'treally interact with each other.
Before, you know, they didn'treally play together, and now
(37:26):
that's all they do.
And so I just like that.
That testimony in itself is whatdrove me to keep going, you
know, because initially I waslike what am I, you know?
Am I really sharing anythinguseful?
Like, yeah, it helped my family, but it can really.
Can it really help any otherfamily?
And that testimony was justlike right.
I need testimony was just likeright.
I need to keep doing this.
I need to keep sharing this.
This is like this is mymotivator and, honestly, there
has been so many amazing storiessince I have a whole folder on
(37:49):
my desktop of just like up tonearly 100 testimonies from you
know I only started sharing this, uh, not even 18 months ago,
and really only more interactivein the last probably nine, ten
months.
It's like this is the thing.
It's just the simple changes toa child's rhythm getting them
(38:09):
out for that morning light,getting them away from screens
more, getting them outside for aminimum of two hours of
sunshine a day, blocking bluelight at night, eating within
the sunrise and sunset and thesesimple changes can literally
just build the foundations to ahealthy and happy childhood and
(38:29):
leading right into adulthood too.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, that's amazing, the effect of two minutes of
unprotected morning sunlight inthe eye.
I think it illustrates very,very well and the power of
simply just giving the nervoussystem, your brain, which in the
eyes, which is an extension ofthe brain these light signals
(38:52):
and this, what we call the mostimportant zeitgeist, which is
the timekeeper.
I want to make a couple ofcomments about autism really
quickly.
You mentioned earlier in termsof its susceptibility.
Potentially there's a geneticcomponent, but compared to its
historical incidence we're at, Ibelieve the US statistics, 1 in
(39:15):
36 currently have a diagnosisand historically it was
completely unknown.
That really does hint to a moreepigenetic or environmental
cause and it's an extremelycontroversial topic in some
regards.
But again, pointing to the workof Dr Cruz, it favors this idea
(39:37):
of artificial light and bluelight affecting neuronal
migration and that isessentially causing what is
known as an atavistic kind ofregression, almost in terms of
human behavior.
And for anyone interested, Ireally encourage you to read his
(39:58):
blog post on autism, which heactually wrote for Nicole
Shanahan, who is the vicepresident nominee, with RFK Jr
on their US political ticket.
But there's other veryintelligent people talking about
autism and Stephanie Seneff andher work with glyphosate and
(40:19):
industrial herbicidecontamination is one of them,
and the other ones which I thinkthere's increasing evidence for
could be again deuterium andpotentially polyunsaturated
fatty acids like linoleic acidfrom seed oil, and then anyone
who's followed RFK will know hisperspective in terms of the
(40:39):
causes, but that's not a topicthat we're going to discuss.
So I mean, the crux of thematter is that we can improve
these symptoms and potentiallydelay or prevent them by just
getting the light signals right.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, like, yes, yes, it really can be that simple is
managing a child's lightenvironment at night, including
the light that they're exposedto, but also the screens.
Like, even if we just focusedon that one area light
environment for our childrenlike we could see our kids go
(41:13):
leap and bounce just fromfocusing on that one area.
And then, when we bring in themorning, infrared light and then
more sunlight, that is how ourbiology is meant to work, right.
We were not meant to liveindoors, we are meant to live
outdoors.
That is how our biology works,in partnership with the sun and
nature.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
And so the more that we live in these concrete
bunkers, the sicker that we arebecoming, unfortunately, yeah,
and again, we don't need a PhDto realize that, but sometimes
we need to have this explainedin a simple way, like you're
doing.
Can you speak to sunglasses andsunscreen, and I imagine that
those are two topics that maybemoms are concerned about, that
(41:55):
maybe mums are concerned about.
How do you talk and discussthat topic?
How do you explain about thosetwo topics to people?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, so we live in the Pilbara, western Australia,
and we literally live in thehottest part of Australia, right
, and we don't use sunscreen.
And so people are like we don'tuse sunscreen.
Occasionally we use a littlebit of just zinc oxide when we
go out in the boat, which isusually just for underneath the
eyes and on the nose, butotherwise we do not use
(42:27):
sunscreen.
But what I do use, as a mother,is I use my intuition, right,
like I think this is a big partof what we have completely
disconnected from is our ownintuition.
You know the own sensations onour skin, like we know you can.
Actually you know when youfirst start.
You know this whole circadianlife is.
You can.
There's amazing apps that youcan use to check the UV and all
(42:50):
of that.
But if we just come back tosensations on our skin, what is
our skin type as well?
You know we all have the sameskin type in our family.
But I tell you what, when I wasa teenager and in my 20s, I
would walk outside and get burnt, and that was because I wore
sunglasses from about 12 yearsof age, and that moment that I
(43:11):
listened to that podcast, I tookthose sunnies off and I have
never worn them since, and thatwas nearly five years ago.
But when I did because we livein the hottest part of Australia
, my eyes, my eyesight I didn'trealize how bad it was, you know
, from wearing sunglasses for solong.
And so I had to do it gradually.
I had to expose my eyes firstto that morning infrared light
(43:31):
and I had to, like I would stillkeep my sunglasses on my head
everywhere I would go, becauseit was just habitual, you know,
I would literally walk in thedoor, put them on my head before
I walked out.
The sunglasses went on Right,and so I took the sunnies off
and but I was, I was gettingburnt quite badly in my teenage
years, in my twenties.
But I was also not exposing myskin or my eyes to that morning
(43:57):
light, right, which helps tobuild our solar callus and that
is important to not get burnt.
And you know, I just like thinkabout my 20s.
I worked in construction.
I worked 12 hour days, six daysa week.
I never I didn't see the sunfor six days.
And then on a Sunday I would goto the beach and I would get
burnt within the first 20minutes of being there.
(44:18):
Now I do not get burnt at all.
My kids don't get burnt at all.
You know we expose our solarpanels, our skin and our eyes as
much as possible to that firstmorning light every single
morning, and that helps to buildour solar callus.
And you know that is thefoundation of, you know, having
it's obviously looks good havinga healthy tan, but that is
(44:39):
what's going to stop us fromburning our skin too.
And so you know, talk aboutsunglasses.
Like the amount of kids you seethese days with sunnies on.
You know it's just like, it's afashion statement.
You know, once you get intothat preteens, but also young
kids and babies you know theamount of like little kids I see
with sunglasses and I thinkit's just a.
You know everyone's doing it.
(45:01):
Oh, we live here.
This is, you know, what youhave to do.
You have to wear lots ofsunscreen, you have to wear
sunglasses to protect your skinand your eyes, but it's actually
opposite to that.
That is opposite to what weshould be doing.
And when I took my sunnies offand I started exposing my skin
and my eyes to that morninglight, everything changed for me
.
My hormones started to.
(45:21):
You know, I actually had agreat menstrual cycle from there
on in.
I, you know, didn't get burnt.
I could be out in the sun for,like, I can be out in the sun
for six hours and not get burnt.
But use your intuition.
You know, like when you knowit's a high uv, like it's 15
plus in the summer here of a uv,and so I always let the kids
pretty much be out at the beachalmost naked for probably the
(45:43):
first 20 minutes and then I'llput a hat on them, then they'll
put their fishing shirts on.
We always take a big shade tothe beach.
You know it's like being sunresponsible, I think, is what's
really important and using yourintuition.
But yeah, the first thing isgetting out in that morning
light, that beautiful infraredlight.
That is what's going to primeand prep your skin and your body
(46:05):
to prevent you from gettingburnt.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, great advice.
And if anyone wants to dive intothe actual physiology of this,
I've addressed it in previouspodcasts, but essentially
there's a neuroendocrine loopthat orchestrates pigmentation
and the immediate pigmentresponse, and it links the
(46:31):
ocular sensation of differentlight wavelengths to the
cutaneous sensation through thenon-visual photoreceptor system,
amongst other mechanisms, thatallows the skin to pigment
appropriately based on theambient ultraviolet conditions.
So we're really hamstringingthat process when we're using
(46:52):
sunglasses and sunscreens too,and because we live in Australia
and we do have amongst thehighest incidence of skin
cancers in the world, because wemismatched, amongst other
reasons, compared to the nativepopulation.
So we just need to be smart,and the smartest way to do that
is using shade and recognizingthat you've got a mismatch of
(47:16):
your skin type to the ambientconditions and do exactly as
you're mentioning is simply justgo inside or go into shade if
you've had enough for your skintype.
So I think that's a great way,I think, of helping people
understand.
And I started to think aboutthe neurodevelopmental
(47:37):
development of these childrenwho are having no UV light,
because not only are they havingthat artificial blue during the
night and during inside time,but they're also being deprived
of UV light, which their bodiesneed to make pro-opioid
monocortin and if you againfollow Dr Jack Cruz's work, that
is the gene that essentiallysculpted us as homo sapiens.
(47:58):
So it's something that's a veryimportant topic that I'm glad
you're also discussing andtalking about.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, and it's like the foundation for setting up a
healthy skating rhythm for ourkids is sunlight.
You can't, you know, do allthese things but not get your
kids out in the sunlight becausethat is, you know, for a
minimum of two hours a day.
That's what preps and primestheir brains and bodies for all
the you know, these beautifulpathways of melatonin and
(48:28):
dopamine and all theneurotransmitters that are
needed for a happy, healthy kid,for a kid that has really good
quality sleep.
You know, like these are justthe foundations of children's
health, like this is the simplefoundations of a child's health,
but it's not talked aboutenough.
You know, like I started thisfive years ago and I remember
(48:48):
searching on the net andInstagram and everywhere I was
like someone's going to betalking about this, but no one
was.
And then it wasn't until threeyears later where I was like
Jess, you know, people weresaying you need to start sharing
this and sharing this and and Iwas like no, I reckon that
someone's sharing it already.
And I researched and researchedfor like a week and I was like
(49:08):
why is no one talking about thiswith for our kids?
You know, it's become quitemore well-known and popular with
adults but not our kids.
And I was like, oh okay, I'mgoing to have to start sharing
this, you know, and it's beenlike the reception of it has
been amazing, like people justlike this feels like the missing
link.
You know, like this is thething that I've been looking for
(49:30):
, that I didn't even know I waslooking for.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, amazing.
Maybe to finish off, you did anamazing post recently just
talking about sleep andcalculating the appropriate
amount of sleep for infants, fortoddlers, for children, for
adolescents.
Maybe just talk through thatgraphic that you posted and
explain that just conceptually.
(49:53):
I think that would be a benefitfor people conceptually, I
think that would be benefit forpeople.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
yeah, so, um, this was just like in reference, I
think, from sleepfoundationorg,and you know, because kids just
aren't getting enough sleepthese days and that is the
foundation of their health, like, if you're not getting enough
sleep for any human, then youknow we just don't have the
opportunity to heal and to restand to digest and you know that
is the time when our body andgrowth, you know, like
development, Prevent cancer.
(50:21):
Yeah, there's so much happeningand, yeah, when our kids are
deprived of melatonin throughblue light toxicity and
excessive screens, like they'renot getting the good quality
sleep that they really need, andinterestingly, there's not a
whole lot of sleep specialiststhat are actually talking about
this.
So I think most of the mothersthat come and see me and ask for
(50:44):
help are kids, you know, aroundthe age of like three to nine,
and so that's kind of like, youknow, pre-school, I would say.
Probably most of them arearound even three to six, like
and to six, and kids that arearound that age should be having
around 10 to 13 hours of sleep.
And some people will be likewhat?
There's no way my kid wouldsleep 12 hours a night.
(51:07):
My kids never used to sleepthat long, you know, going back
when I had two children, theywould be lucky to get six hours
of broken sleep a night, andthat is actually really common
for a lot of kids these days andso, but now my kids who are
ages four, seven and nine alljust had a birthday.
(51:28):
They now sleep all actuallypretty much the same, from the
three year old to the nine yearold.
They're all sleeping at least12 hours, I would say the
three-year-old probably sleeps13 hours, but the seven and
nine-year-old are both sleeping12 hours as well, and so their
recommended sleep through theSleep Foundation is around, yeah
(51:48):
, the 10, 11 hour mark andthey're sleeping.
I would say, yeah, 11 to 12hours a night.
Solid sleep too, you know, likethey're not waking up and know
needing to.
You know go to the toilet orthey're not waking up, um, and
like taking hours to go back tosleep is which what it used to
be like in our household.
They sleep solid, and the onlything that we change was their
(52:13):
light environment and how muchtime they spent outside.
If you look at it real simplylike they are the two
foundations, the two principlesof circadian rhythms that had
the most impact with our kids.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, it is remarkable that more people
aren't talking about it and, asyou mentioned, sleep consultants
aren't talking about it andsleep physicians you know people
adult patients get referred toa sleep physician for insomnia
and they're actually not beingtold the most basic tenets of
this circadian rhythm and thecircadian biology that you and I
(52:50):
have discussed and typicallythat ends up looking like, you
know, in adults, when childrenit looks like a melatonin
prescription and in adults it'seither melatonin or you know
something else, somethingheavier prescription, when you
know the patient hasn't even tosay this, because really it
should be common knowledge andit should be first-line advice
from all health practitioners.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, and you know melatonin is like it is
literally an epidemic.
(53:31):
It's like we're speaking aboutAustralia, for example.
You know these kids who arehaving serious sleep issues like
you said, insomnia as well andthey're prescribed melatonin
supplements.
But I remember Dr Jack Cruzsaying one time that the human
body right is meant to absorball frequencies of sunlight
throughout the day through theeyes and the skin, and so
(53:54):
melatonin production starts inthe morning when we expose our
eyes and skin to that firstmorning light and it's made up
of various different UV lightfrequencies.
But artificially createdmelatonin does not contain these
specific light signalingfrequencies and it ends up in
the gut and essentially nocircadian rhythm control.
(54:14):
So we don't know what effectthis artificial melatonin is
actually having on our kids longterm or what effect it's having
on their natural production ofmelatonin as well.
You know like it doesn'tcontain what infrared light does
contain, which naturally startsour production of melatonin.
So there's a lot that we don'tunderstand.
(54:35):
But we do know that artificialmelatonin can potentially cause
and harm the way that ournatural production of melatonin
works.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah, look, it's an area that needs more research,
that's for sure.
I mean, traditionally itsupposedly has a quite wide
therapeutic index andwell-tolerated.
But whenever we're kind of,yeah, as you mentioned,
introducing a hormone that ourbody is making, we really have
to ask what is the downstreameffect, and some have suggested
(55:06):
that's retinal thinning.
I haven't seen any hard data,but I'm open to the possibility
that there's some quite seriousnegative effect.
And look and again, not tolabor the point, but that that
kid also, who isn't sleepingduring the day, maybe they
during the night and get an adhddiagnosis and have to be on
(55:27):
melatonin.
That's also to medicate thealertness that they've
experienced because they've beenprescribed dexamphetamine for
their ad.
So the medication cycle of astimulant and then a hypnotic
agent is starting from a very,very young age, and I've even
(55:48):
seen kids who are prescribedrisperidone and antipsychotic
medications for behavioralcontrol and again, it's coming
back to these fundamental inputslike light and processed food
too, to some degree.
So yeah, we can't overstate howimportant this is and I think
maybe a parting message for thelisteners is just give it a try.
(56:09):
There's so little to lose byjust getting your family out and
following the advice that Jesshas shared and see what happens.
But the other point and youalluded to it is that this
actually takes the adults tochange.
It takes mom and dad toactually lead the way, because
the kids are going to followwhat mom and dad are doing.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, you know my kids didn't listen to that
podcast.
You know they didn't changeover the lights to blue blocking
lights, like they didn't do anyof that.
It takes the responsibility ofthe parent to do that.
And it can be hard to changehabits, like it doesn't happen
overnight.
But if we just like use, if wetake micro changes, like change
(56:53):
one thing a week, you know likewe can make it really easy for
ourselves.
It doesn't have to beoverwhelming like oh my god, I
gotta change my lights, I gottado this and I gotta do that.
Like like we've been livingthis life for nearly five years
and we're still evolving.
You know like there's stilllike things that we're adapting
to, or like new lights thatwe're buying or whatever it
might be changing over somelights, like there's still
(57:15):
always something right.
But it's like keep it reallysimple, like change one thing.
And I think that is like that isthe answer to this, because we
have become so disconnected fromour natural rhythms and from
nature that it's not going tohappen overnight to get back to
a place that we were, and wedon't want to be like where our
(57:35):
ancestors once were, but we wantto adopt some of those
principles and the way that weused to live.
We want to bring that into this,like tech, you know, driven
world that we live in now, likewe have to, because our biology
is never going to change, right?
It doesn't matter how much AIcomes into this life that we
live, our biology will neverchange.
(57:55):
It will always work inpartnership with the sun and we
need the right type of light forour bodies to thrive.
That is period right, like thatis fact and like we can't
ignore that.
And I think that the more thatwe share this message, the more
that people will be like literallight bulb moments like, of
course, no, that makes so muchsense.
Like literal light bulb momentslike, of course, you know, that
(58:16):
makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, you're right, the design specification of Homo
sapiens, and it's our relianceon solar energy.
And the circadian cycle withits 3.4 billion year history, is
not going to change no matterwhat brain-machine interface
gets invented.
So, yes, that's a very, verywise words and a great place to
(58:39):
finish.
Just tell us where people canconnect with you.
Say they've listened to this.
They think, wow, maybe I coulddefinitely make some change, but
want some guidance.
How can they get in touch withyou and how can they work with
you?
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yeah, so you can jump over to my Instagram, which is
just at circadiankids.
That's pretty much where I hangout.
I also have a community over onmy free Facebook group, but you
know, I have developed thisprogram called the Rhythm Reset
for Kids and I offer it twice ayear and I just, you know it
formed, it created itself.
It was basically what themothers needed, you know, like
(59:16):
what they were struggling withtheir kids, and I basically what
the mothers needed you know,like, what they were struggling
with their kids and I basicallybrought the principles of
circadian rhythms together and Ijust make it very simple and
just explain it very simple.
I go into a little bit of thebiology, but not much, because
we don't actually need to knowall that, right, like, we just
need to know that actually weneed to get our kids outside
more and off screens more andlike block blue light at night.
(59:38):
We can keep it really simple,and I keep it really simple,
especially for mothers who have,you know, these heightened
states of nervous systems andjust don't have the energy or
the capacity to be able to doone more thing, and so I just
basically help to invite smallmicro changes each week for four
weeks and that's in the RhythmReset for Kids.
(59:59):
You can check out my bio in myInstagram page.
There's information there whenit comes up again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Amazing.
We'll share that in the shownotes.
So, jess, thank you so much forsharing all this information
with the listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Thank so much for having me.
I so appreciate it.
On the Regenerative Health Podcast.
Today I am interviewing JessBrosnan.
Now.
She is a naturopath and aspecialist in implementing
circadian biology and itspractical lifestyle behaviors
and modifications as it relatesto children and to women,
pregnant women, babies andfamilies.
(00:20):
So, jess, thank you very muchfor speaking with me.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me me.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me on.
I'm really excited aboutchatting, all about this.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, so I see children in my clinical practice
and you obviously see childrenevery day in your group and
online coaching and think thatthis is an area of health and I
use the term health to reallymean the whole kind of public
health and the health of theworld that is so
(00:50):
underappreciated and so justsimply misunderstood that it's
almost remarkable and thereforethe opportunity is so great to
help people and improve so manyconditions, is so great to help
people and improve so manyconditions.
So maybe explain to us how youexplain the idea of circadian
(01:11):
rhythms to your clients and whyare circadian rhythms so
important for kids and families?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, oh, wow.
So I just like develop this bigpassion to really like shift
the health paradigm for our kidsright, so we can like have
these happy, healthy, thriving,connected kids.
And so I have fallen intoteaching mothers basically how
to sync their child's circadianrhythm to help them set up this
(01:44):
foundation of, you know, optimalsleep, great energy, thriving
hormones, and then that leadsinto the longevity, like their
long-term health, and thisreally includes, you know,
honoring the light and darkcycles from sunrise to sunset.
So let's have a look, I mean inregards to why circadian
(02:04):
rhythms are important for ourkids.
I think you know our children'scircadian rhythms and their
mitochondria, which is, you know, the energy powerhouses of
their cells, really plays thislike significant role in our
child's health.
So everything from sleep tobrain development to hormone
production, everything fromsleep to brain development to
(02:27):
hormone production, so much more.
So if we think about sleepwhich I generally see a lot of
mothers coming to me about theirkids' sleep so if their child
has a healthy, functioningcircadian rhythm and
mitochondria, then it allowsthem to have this regulated
sleep pattern.
You know, the child is able tofall asleep without their brains
being so wired but their body'sbeen so tired.
(02:50):
It ensures, you know, healthyamounts of melatonin, which is
their sleep hormone.
What else it helps to have thatdeep, quality sleep and you know
this is really important forour children Like this is when
their bodies are able to repairand heal when it's nighttime.
Also, you know, helps toregulate a child's nervous
(03:11):
system, which is, you know, soimportant to have good mental
and emotional health.
And then you know things liketheir hormone.
You know their hormones, thecorrect balance and release of
hormones at the right time ofthe day, and this is important
for all ages, but particularlyfor kids who are going through
(03:32):
puberty.
And then other things you know,like a strong, healthy immune
system, a healthy digestion andmetabolism, which is really good
for you know, good gut health.
And then, I think, finally,like to sum it up having a good,
healthy rhythm and good habits.
You know that is really goingto lead them in the right
(03:52):
direction to adulthood, and thisincludes having healthy rhythms
to start their morning and thenfor kids to actually wind down
like this is going to supportthe healthy functioning of you
know-being in their body rightand through into adulthood.
It's basically setting thefoundations for these kids.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, I really love that framing.
I think it is fundamentallysetting a foundation for a
healthy lifestyle into theirchildhood, adolescence and
adulthood.
We are, are and I use the termwe are kind of very broadly a
modern society is has found alot of ways to disrupt humans
(04:36):
and therefore children'scircadian rhythm.
Explain, from your point ofview, what society has done
wrong to basically put a spannerin the works of this critically
important bodily function.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, you know, we live in this tech-driven world
that is literally saturated inartificial light, like we are
quite literally bathingourselves and our children in
artificial light 24-7, you know,with these big bright lights
(05:14):
that are causing this internalcircadian storm inside our
children that we can't even see.
And you know, I'm not surprisedby the conversations that I hear
now where kids are up all nightlong playing video games and
they can't get to sleep withoutan iPad, going to bed with an
(05:35):
iPad and then needing to wake upduring the night to get back on
their iPad.
These conversations used toshock me a couple of years ago
when I heard them, but now theyhave become so normal that
nothing really shocks me anymore.
And I just I think that youknow the four I would say the
(05:55):
four which I've kind of likepulled all together and what
I've listened to the mothersthat are coming to my page and
what I've understood is that thefour biggest contributors to
our children's ill health andthese ailments that they're
experiencing is lack of sunlight, this addiction to technology,
because technology is incrediblyaddictive, especially for young
(06:19):
developing brains and thendisconnection to nature, because
our kids are getting less thanan hour on average of time
outdoors these days and thenexcessive saturation and
exposure to blue light at night.
I feel that these are thefoundations that are really
(06:40):
causing these kids to have allsorts of different health
ailments and the ill health ofour children today, and the
thing is they are allpreventable.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, and I really think that the behaviors or the
environment that the child is inis reflecting the adult's
environment and it reflects theenvironment that adults are kind
of cultivating for their kids.
Just like the kid's going toeat, if the parents put
Coca-Cola in the bottle, thekid's going to drink Coca-Cola.
If the parents are blaring amassive widescreen TV and having
(07:17):
everyone's got an iPad or adevice at 8 pm at night, then
the kids are going to really dothe same.
So I think it's just anotherunintentional way that parents
are actually unknowinglysabotaging their children's
health.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, 100%, and we're all just doing the best
that we can do with the toolsthat we have and this knowledge,
this wisdom of circadianrhythms.
I call it a remembering becauseour biology is never going to
change Like this is the way thatour biology works, and that's
in partnership with the sun.
(07:54):
Right, so that's never, evergoing to change, but we have
forgotten along the way how ourbiology works in partnership
with nature and with the sun,and when we honor that, that is
when we thrive in our health andwell-being.
And the more that we disconnectfrom that, the more that we are
(08:14):
seeing these crazy healthelements in our children.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, and I definitely want to get into the
exact kind of different diseasesor different.
I definitely want to get intothe exact kind of different
diseases or different conditionsdevelopmental disorders that
are probably both causallylinked to circadian disruption,
artificial light at night,sunlight and vitamin D
deficiency, but also greatlyexacerbated because they lie on
the causal pathway.
(08:39):
So they're both going to be acause and an exacerbation.
I want to make a quickreference to an earlier podcast
when I interviewed Dr Jack Cruz,who a lot of people who are
going down this light andcircadian rhythm rabbit hole
will know about, and if youhaven't heard of his work, then
(09:00):
go back and listen to my earlierpodcast with him and some of
his other podcasts on on youtube.
But, uh, he made the amusingbut and maybe slightly
hyperbolic, but I I don'tactually think it's.
It's hyperbolic.
Uh, when you understand thecircadian biology.
He said giving your kid, givinga kid an ipad like the digital
(09:21):
babysitter at night, is, youknow, is the equivalent of, of
kicking the you know, you knowwhat out of night is the
equivalent of kicking theyou-know-what out of them in the
middle of Sydney airport, andit's a characteristic delivery
by Dr Cruz, but that kind ofspeaks to the impact of really
disrupting this finely tunedhormonal balance that is so
(09:43):
dependent on light-dark signalsand I've talked about it at
length which is, you know, weneed both.
We need the bright sunlightduring the day which you
mentioned, as kids are beingsunlight deficient, but we also
need absence of light at night,and that I mean they've got to
be very, very close in terms of,you know, ways that people are
(10:03):
kind of unintentionally doingthings wrong because, as you've
said, this tech addiction isleading us, um, to spend all day
inside and to to light up thenight in the way that it hasn't
previously been yeah, 100.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
and it's so addictive even for adults right, like
even adults struggle to containthemselves with not waking up
first thing and checking andscrolling their phone.
You know, like that is howaddictive it is for us, so it
almost should be illegal forchildren to have these devices
so readily available to them.
(10:39):
I mean, there's not many kids,like little kids, these days
that don't own an iPad.
You know like it is just socommon and unfortunately, like
that once you have an iPad, andespecially if there are no
boundaries around that iPad,that child can become heavily
(11:00):
addicted to this screen.
And it's like trying to takethat screen away from a child is
like almost like a drug addicttrying to take something off
them.
You know, like that is howserious it is, and especially
kids from zero to six, who aredeveloping their brains.
(11:20):
You know there's so much wiringand neurotransmitters firing at
that age and when we have thisscreen in our face it's actually
causing way more havoc than wemay ever know.
It's causing all sorts of crazybehavioral issues.
I've seen it in my own kids andI remember I've seen it in my
(11:48):
own kids, you know, and like Iremember about five years ago
when I was in the thick ofmotherhood and I was using
screens as a way as a babysitter.
You know like I was so stretchedthin because I was sleep
deprived.
My kids weren't sleeping and Iwas.
I tell this story and it justit like blows my mind that I
used to do this, but I wasfeeling so stretched with
(12:09):
motherhood at the time that oncethe kids finally went to bed, I
would grab out an ice cream orchocolate bar and I would sit on
the couch and watch three crazyamounts of episodes on Netflix
until you know 12, one o'clockin the morning, and what I would
do is I'd get two bananas andthe remote control and I would
put it on the coffee table,already programmed to ABC Kids.
(12:33):
And the kids were in a habitual, you know, habit of just going
straight to the TV in themorning because they were waking
up at five o'clock and I didnot want to wake up at five
o'clock, and so I was in thisvicious cycle.
And this is the thing.
A lot of parents, especiallymothers, are in this vicious
cycle and they don't know a wayout.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, it is profoundly harmful and you know
before we.
I really want you to expand onthat and maybe you can talk
about this interesting post youdid recently about virtual
autism.
But I'll make the point quicklythat why is this so harmful?
And I think the iPad use is notonly are we blasting the babies
(13:17):
developing eyes and retina withthis high energy visible light
which is actually next to UV, sothese are high-energy photons
and they cause oxidative stressand they cause death of you know
oxidative stress and death ofthese you know retinal ganglion
cells.
So not only are we impacting theactual potential, causing
(13:38):
vision issues and that likeleads to myopia and other
conditions, but we're alsoobviously disrupting the
circadian rhythm and these iPadsare emitting radiofrequency
radiation immediately, likeleads to myopia and other
conditions, but we're alsoobviously disrupting the
circadian rhythm and these iPadsare emitting radio frequency
radiation immediately, like Isee a consult room last week
that the infant was holding theiPad you know on its lap.
So it is irradiating itsundeveloped breast tissue, its
(14:02):
gonads, its ovaries directly andanyone who's looking into the
non-native EMF side of healthknows that this inverse square
law is like we need to get thesedevices as far away from the
body to reduce essentiallyirradiation as much as possible.
(14:22):
So, yeah, just to quickly makethat point, that this is why we
should avoid giving our kidsthese devices, but please talk
to us about the effects thatyou've seen and this idea of,
yeah, perhaps virtual autism.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, and you know that's a really good point you
make about the non-native EMFs.
It's actually a really biginterest point I've had for many
, many years, before I even wasintroduced to circadian rhythms
by Dr Jack Cruz, of course, but,like I would say, for about the
last 15 years we turn the Wi-Fioff at nighttime and we've been
doing that for an incrediblylong time, and then we actually
(15:02):
our entire house is now cabledso we don't have to use Wi-Fi at
all.
We've just, you know, come along way.
Yeah, that's a big, actually abig elephant in the room and I
go quite deep into that, into myrhythm reset for kids, because
it's not talked about enough,right, like it's.
Like you said, there's so manydifferent aspects for a child of
having a screen in front oftheir face.
(15:22):
You know it's causing asuppression of melatonin and
dopamine as well, and you knowthe eyes and the skin cannot
differentiate between naturalsunlight and artificial light.
So if our kids are going to bedwith an iPad or you know
they're exposed to theseartificial we've got artificial
(15:43):
suns on the roof, big, brightlights.
Their brains are gettingconfused and that's why they
become wide, they get thissecond wind and their bodies and
brains believe that it'sdaytime again, and so, you know,
everything fires back up,whereas everything is meant to
be winding down.
And that's why we use, you know, circadian friendly lighting,
(16:04):
you know, red lights and lightsthat don't have flicker in them,
lights that don't have thisartificial blue light.
You know, these are the signals, the flicker and the blue light
that's sending to the brainthat it's daytime.
It's daytime, wake up, wake up.
And then we're wondering whyour kids are struggling to wind
down and to fall asleep.
(16:25):
Like I remember, my kids usedto take up to two hours to go to
bed.
This is from the moment thatthey're in bed to actually
falling asleep.
And now, applying all of theprinciples of circadian rhythms,
like, I kid you not, my kidsare asleep in one to two minutes
or less when the light goes out.
(16:47):
And I'm not talking about thebig bright lights on the roof,
because we don't use thoseanymore.
I'm talking about, you know,like a block, a blue block book
lamp.
Right, that's either red or,really, you know, dark orange.
And so that promotes sleep andthat helps the brain and the
body to wind down and know thatit's time for sleep and that
(17:07):
helps the production and releaseof melatonin as well.
And so, yeah, there's this termcalled virtual autism and, not
to get confused with thediagnosed autism spectrum
disorder, asd, which is more ofa genetic cause, virtual autism
is a term that was formulated in2018.
And it was under observationwith young children I think it
(17:32):
was under three and thesechildren showed autistic-like
symptoms due to excessive screentime.
So it was done with kids whowere looking at screens for more
than four hours and you knowthese kids, rather than engaging
with the world around them andtouch and movement and
(17:52):
interacting and play, they werespending a lot of time excessive
time in front of screens and sothis is messing with their
development.
You know it was hindering theirway and ability to talk and to
think and interact with theworld around them.
And, yeah, I was totally mindblown when I heard this term
(18:14):
virtual autism.
But generally for kids, whatthey can see is kids under three
who are having excessive screentime of more than four hours,
and that does sound like a lot,but if your TV is on or the iPad
is readily available for themat any time, four hours, you
know, really isn't that much,but that is what it is causing.
(18:34):
Certain brain chemicals likemelanopsin, dopamine, GABA, like
all your neurotransmitters, ina you know deficiency and
pathway.
That is not good for ourchildren's development.
It's causing behavioral changes, low cognitive function,
delayed speech and I tell youwhat delayed speech is a huge
(18:59):
issue for a lot of young kidsand so, yeah, is there a direct
link to screens?
It's definitely becoming a morecommon conversation and a
conversation that needs to behad more.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, it's remarkable and I think, to use an
ancestral lens, if you imagine achild growing up prior to the
development of electricity,which was in the late 1800s, the
child would be in around afamily unit, maybe playing
outside the grass, while men arecutting up an animal or
(19:39):
preparing and making a net orsomething.
The kid might be climbing overmom and dad, it's grounded, it's
outside, it's experiencingartificial sorry, completely
natural light, and when the sungoes down maybe there's a bit of
firelight, but the kid's goingto be out like a light, out like
your children are when they'reimplementing these types of
behaviors.
I mean, what we're doing todayis such a radical departure from
(20:03):
that routine and I think we doneed to just join the dots from
a health point of view, andcommonly it's not uncommon that
in general practice we'll see achild who is having behavioral
issues, whether that is a formaldiagnosis of ASD, autism
spectrum disorder, and perhapseven or often ADHD at the same
(20:28):
time, and they've seen thepediatrician and they just get
put on melatonin, they get puton supplemental melatonin and
you can bet your bottom dollarthat that child is using tech,
is using screens and has an iPad, is free reign of an iPad and
this is where you know thesympathy and the empathy comes
in is because if that child hasalready behaved really difficult
(20:51):
, you know you can understandwhy the parent might provide
that for them, but they're justobviously not understanding that
this could be completelyexacerbating the underlying
problem.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's a complete coping mechanism for parents.
You know I've been there andyou know I just don't have like
I don't hold any judgment, Ithink, because I've been there
and I remember, like I stillfeel it in my body, how it felt
for me in that struggle andbeing so stretched as a parent
because I was so sleep deprived.
(21:23):
And I remember just, you knowit would get to three, four
o'clock and I just have this,like you know, pit in my stomach
thinking about I've got to gothrough this again tonight.
You know, like the kids comingin and out constantly, like not
going to sleep, and I justremember like that you know
vicious cycle of getting angryat them, feeling very
(21:45):
unregulated, and I just wantedmy time by myself.
Unfortunately it wasn't ahealthy way.
I was spending my me time untilone o'clock in the morning and
but I didn't know at the timeand so when, and this is why
it's so important to share andspread this message right, like
I was just a mother.
You know, yes, I was anaturopath, but I was actually
(22:07):
specializing in women's healthand fertility, not in children's
health at all.
And then, you know, I was hitrock bottom and I hit complete
rock bottom.
I ended up, you know, feelingvery stretched, sleep deprived,
but actually hurt my knee and Ihad to go under emergency
surgery and I ended up being ina full leg brace for six knee
and I had to go under emergencysurgery and I ended up being in
a full leg brace for six weeks.
(22:27):
And I remember saying to myhusband, about two weeks after
it happened, I just said I can'tdo this anymore, like something
has to change.
And we ended up I said I just Iwant to travel Australia.
And he was like what, okay?
And we just made it happenbecause he knew how bad of a
place that I was in with mymental health and my physical
(22:47):
health was declining.
So we made it happen and sixweeks later we were on the road
and what I saw which I didn'tlink at the time, but the kids
started sleeping better becausethey were spending 80% of their
time outdoors.
We were in a caravan, we didn'ttake any tech, we traveled the
entire of Australia with no techfor the kids whatsoever.
And so, yeah, I didn't make theconnection, but they started
(23:11):
sleeping better, they were moreregulated, they were happier.
I started sleeping better.
And then it was funny becauseabout four weeks into the trip I
actually fell pregnant with ourthird baby.
And then it was just after that.
That is when I say accidentally,because I clicked onto a
podcast that literally changedthe whole trajectory of my life.
(23:32):
There was a podcast that I waslooking for and I opened up my
podcast app and there was thispodcast that said light, water
and magnetism.
But it didn't.
It didn't like get me.
I was like that doesn't soundvery interesting.
But in brackets it saidexplicit language and I was like
that sounds interesting, I'mgonna listen to that.
(23:53):
And it was by neurosurgeon DrDr Jack Cruz, and I started
listening and within two minutesmy mind was blown.
I didn't learn any of this innaturopathic college, nothing at
all and I just couldn't believeit.
And from that moment forward,that was when I watched my very
first intentional sunrise and Isay intentional because I've
(24:14):
watched plenty of sunrises, youknow, in my early twenties,
after coming out the nightclub,but never actually, you know,
got up intentionally to watchthe sunrise, and that was nearly
five years ago and I've justbeen completely hooked.
And so my children's livestransformed, mine transformed.
And then, three years ofactually living this way, I
(24:35):
started to get more and morepeople asking me about what are
you doing?
Like, how are your kids sohealthy?
You know all these questionsand I got to a point, was like I
can't not share this.
You know, like I feel like it'smy sacred duty now to actually
share this because I know howmuch it can help these
struggling mothers with theseyoung children who, you know,
aren't in thriving health likethey should be in their
childhood right, who aren't inthriving health like they should
(24:57):
be in their childhood right.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, and I think the kind of social zeitgeist is
more appreciation of the role offoods, of holistic food, whole
food, sourcing, ofnutrient-dense animal foods.
I think there's certainaccounts in social media and
Instagram that are reallypromoting those ideas more
widely, but there is a hole forinformation and for education
(25:21):
about light environment, aboutcircadian rhythms for kids and,
as you and I both know that thisis such a kind of missing piece
, can you speak to what you'venoticed, speak to your routine
that you follow with your familyand what you teach your clients
?
And, yeah, again, just expandon the improvements that you see
(25:43):
with the circadian lifestylebehaviors.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, so there's so many.
I just get the most incrediblemessages.
Like every day over myInstagram there's another
message from a mother saying youknow, just thank you so much,
just these, simple.
And this is the thing.
It is really simple.
It doesn't have to be hard,it's not complicated.
I don't make it complicated.
I don't talk about all thebiology.
I keep it really simple becausethat is what mothers need.
(26:11):
You know, they don't need anextra thing or they don't need,
like you know, give me a 20 pagehandout.
I just want the simplicity ofit, and so I tell them a lot of
stories about my family.
What we do I think that's whatpeople love is like I share from
a real life aspect.
You know, like what we do on adaily basis and so, yeah, like
(26:32):
we wake up naturally with thesun.
You know, like the first thingthat my kid says I want to go
outside.
My three-year-old is like theepitome of what I would call a
circadian kid.
He is.
He was the one I was 16 weekspregnant with when I listened to
that podcast, and so I watched,from 16 weeks pregnant, every
single sunrise and I was out inthe daylight sunshine for four
(26:55):
to six hours a day, bare feet onthe earth.
You know the earth.
All my eating rhythms were insync with the sunrise to sunset,
blocked blue light at night.
And this kid was born theminute the sun came up.
I kid you not, he is a sunrisebaby and he has just been a
dream and third child and allquite close together.
(27:16):
Most mothers are quitestretched in that time when
you've got three little children.
And I absolutely thrived, andstill am, with three kids and
that's because I honor, you know, the light dark cycles with our
whole family.
We all do it together.
And now I want to talk intothis because it's not always
easy to make these changes.
It's definitely easier withlittle kids.
(27:37):
I will tell you that Once theyget a bit older.
You know, to try and changehabits is a bit harder.
Partners, husbands yes, alittle bit trickier, but you
know it's just these microchanges.
You know it's these smalllittle changes.
Get the kids out first thing inthe morning, you know, like it's
(28:00):
the first thing that we do.
We always say you know sunlightbefore artificial light.
So we get up in the morning andif the sun's not up because in
the winter it's not always upwhen the kids wake up, we have
the red lights.
If you're on the video, you cansee behind me I've got a red
strip in the kitchen.
It's a blue, blocking red strip.
So there's no flicker, there'sno artificial light and it
allows the kids to wake up morenaturally and not this
heightened state of you know.
(28:21):
You wake up and the brightlights are on and their internal
circadian rhythms are just likegone haywire the moment they've
woken up and that heightenstheir nervous system.
And so when they walk outside,you know that beautiful infrared
light, that morning sunlight isjust so potent for our children
, their brains and their bodiesand that you know production of
(28:41):
that first production of theirmelatonin.
And you know, I didn't knowthis, I didn't understand that
when I was putting my kids infront of the TV before the sun
was even up, I had no idea thatwas affecting their hormone
production and affecting theirsleep, nighttime Like.
No one ever told me that, andthat is why I love to get this
message out.
(29:02):
And so, yeah, the kids go outand the first thing they do is
ground their feet, they jump on.
We have this huge, funky monkeybar at the front which is like
two big monkey bars.
It's a big flying fox.
We've made the front yard veryenticing for the kids to go out,
right, because kids are notgoing to go outside if there's
nothing to do or play.
(29:23):
We have a tree that they canclimb in.
We've got grass that they canplay footy and cricket, like.
We make it very entertainingfor them.
Because, you know, I think thething is with parents and toys
houses are so overstimulated,like with toys and gadgets, that
kids actually don't want to gooutside.
(29:43):
You know they're happy insidebecause there's so many things
going on.
The things that I did early onwas like get rid of the toy room
, get rid of the toy room, andwhen we buy things for them for
their birthdays, it's all to dowith outdoor play.
That, like that, is one of thekeys to get the kids outside
more.
And I tell you what we live inone of the hottest places in
Australia and so there's noexcuse that the kids it's too
(30:06):
hot outside.
Our kids are still outside.
They adapt as well and, yes, itdoes get very hot and very
sweaty, but the kids are used tobeing outside right, they're
used to climbing trees and theywant to be outside.
That is like a natural.
A kid's life force, right Like,we are all connected, we are
all nature, but kids, they aremore, less conditioned, they're
(30:27):
more connected to nature thanadults are, and so that is
literally their life force, thatis their energy force, and so
they need to be outside more.
So, yeah, we have breakfastoutside and then we um the kids
go to go to a school just astreet away from us.
So we always walk or ride toschool, get their bodies active,
and then as soon as they gethome, it's like they have a
(30:49):
little rhythm.
You know I'm all about rhythms.
I think it's really importantto have predictability of what's
going on in their lives and asthey get their shoes off, you
know uniforms, off lunch boxes,on bench and they're straight
outside either jumping in thepool or they're on the funky
monkey bar, but it's alwaysoutside and they have about four
hours of sunlight until the sungoes down, and then it's dinner
(31:09):
.
Dinner is always done beforesunset, always because that
allows a kid's digestion toreally you know their metabolism
, to really like wind downproperly.
You know a kid going to bedwith full stomach like is really
going to struggle to have goodquality sleep, and let her know.
(31:30):
You know, so many kids thesedays are eating dinner under
artificial light, which we knowis affecting the way that
they're actually metabolizingtheir food as well.
So this is like, yeah, thebasics of our rhythm is getting
the kids outside as much aspossible.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, I love that.
That's a very, very goodroutine.
And to summarize quickly,that'll be get your kids
outdoors seeing sunlight, beforeany kind of screens.
Maximize the amount of timethat they're spending outdoors
in natural light, eating themeals outdoors, obviously,
seeing sunrise and sunset if youcan, and, yeah, eating and
(32:10):
finishing those last meals wellbefore sleep.
I like to tell people at leastthree to four hours, and some
people who have difficultysleeping find that pairing that
sleeping time back to 3 pm, 2 pm, going all the way back to
before noon, can even make realimprovements in sleep quality.
And just to really emphasizethe point is that that morning
(32:32):
light contains it does contain alittle bit of blue.
It contains enough blue to giveus a bit of cortisol spike to
start the day natural blue, butit's always paired with red and
infrared and that is in starkcontrast to the artificial blue
that the kid is going to get ifthey flick on Looney Tunes,
cartoon Network I don't knowwhat kids watch these days, but
(32:56):
what is confusing is causingcircadian rhythm disruption and
we know from the literature it'sjust growing longer and longer
and longer in terms of thenumber of conditions that are
associated with circadian rhythmdisruption.
And you mentioned mistimed meals.
In adults, that's a risk factorfor developing insulin
(33:16):
resistance, depositing visceralfat because, fundamentally, the
gut clocks are uncoupled they'redesynchronized from the master
clock in the suprachiasmaticnucleus.
I want to make the point thatthis is not unfounded in its
scientific evidence.
This is well, well documentedthroughout the literature.
This was the 2017 Nobel Prizewas for mechanisms related to
(33:40):
the molecular clock operation,so this is not something that
can be dismissed, but theinnovation that you're doing,
jess, is translating thismessage for normal people who
don't have a scientificbackground, who don't have a
biomedical research background,who don't understand the clock
(34:03):
genes and don't need to how tobenefit their health.
So that's really amazing stuff.
Do you mind sharing again justsome stories of some of the
clients that you've seen, andmaybe perhaps ones that have had
pre-existing behavioral issues,whether that's ADHD or ASD,
(34:24):
autism?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
yeah, oh, there's so many amazing ones, but there's
always one that really sticksout for me, and this was at the
beginning of the year, beautifulmother who came into my rhythm
reset for kids, and she's gottwo boys and the eldest boy, who
was nine.
He is on the autistic spectrumand he, for many, many years,
(34:46):
had to regulate himself with ascreen when he first woke up, so
he had an iPad next to his bed.
He'd wake up, he'd go to thescreen First thing, he'd be on
it for about half an hour, up toan hour, and then he'd come out
and greet the family, andthat's also how he went to bed
as well, and the mother was justlike.
This is just how he regulateshimself and I don't know another
way.
However, it's causing all ofthese.
(35:09):
You know anger and outbursts,and you know he's becoming
recluse and you know he's notcoming out and speaking or
playing with his younger brother, and so we just implemented and
tweaked a few little things totheir rhythm, and this is a
thing like this is really easy,it doesn't have to be hard, and
all we got him to do was hismother to invite him outside in
(35:32):
the morning.
So he woke up and she went inthere first thing and said hey,
I've got something to show you.
Do you want to come out andhave a look?
And they went outside bare feeton the ground.
The sun was just coming up.
They were literally out therefor less than two minutes, right
.
And he came back inside and hisdad said I don't have any milk,
I need to go to the shops.
And this young boy said I'll goto the shops.
(35:54):
It was literally just acrossthe road.
He'd never done it before, he'dnever, ever, put his hand up to
do anything.
And the mom and dad looked ateach other and were just like,
okay, all right, let's do it.
Sure.
And so he went across to theshops, he got the milk and he
also got himself a juice.
And the mom was like, oh mygoodness, his younger brother is
going to, you know, completelylose it because he doesn't have
(36:17):
his other brother Juice.
And he came back in and hisyounger brother was like oh my
God, I am so proud of you.
You just went to the shops allby yourself.
And he had the biggest smile onhis face and he forgot about
the screen.
He didn't go to the screen, andthen he sat down and had
breakfast with the family andshe said this is the first time
that he has done it in years andhe had an amazing day.
(36:38):
And then she has just got anincredible transformation ever
since.
That was day one, and then shecame through the four-week
program with me and by the endof it she was a completely
different person because she wasspending more time outside as
well.
This is the thing, like adultsaren't spending enough time
outside and we actually need toget out there with the kids too.
So she bought the kids a littletent I think they live in the
(37:01):
UK Bought them a little tent andthey would just play for hours
and hours in and out the tent,you know, in the backyard
kicking the ball now getting outpuzzles outside, whereas they
never really.
The kids, the two boys, didn'treally interact with each other.
Before, you know, they didn'treally play together, and now
(37:26):
that's all they do.
And so I just like that.
That testimony in itself is whatdrove me to keep going, you
know, because initially I waslike what am I, you know?
Am I really sharing anythinguseful?
Like, yeah, it helped my family, but it can really.
Can it really help any otherfamily?
And that testimony was justlike right.
I need testimony was just likeright.
I need to keep doing this.
I need to keep sharing this.
This is like this is mymotivator and, honestly, there
has been so many amazing storiessince I have a whole folder on
(37:49):
my desktop of just like up tonearly 100 testimonies from you
know I only started sharing this, uh, not even 18 months ago,
and really only more interactivein the last probably nine, ten
months.
It's like this is the thing.
It's just the simple changes toa child's rhythm getting them
(38:09):
out for that morning light,getting them away from screens
more, getting them outside for aminimum of two hours of
sunshine a day, blocking bluelight at night, eating within
the sunrise and sunset and thesesimple changes can literally
just build the foundations to ahealthy and happy childhood and
(38:29):
leading right into adulthood too.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yeah, that's amazing, the effect of two minutes of
unprotected morning sunlight inthe eye.
I think it illustrates very,very well and the power of
simply just giving the nervoussystem, your brain, which in the
eyes, which is an extension ofthe brain these light signals
(38:52):
and this, what we call the mostimportant zeitgeist, which is
the timekeeper.
I want to make a couple ofcomments about autism really
quickly.
You mentioned earlier in termsof its susceptibility.
Potentially there's a geneticcomponent, but compared to its
historical incidence we're at, Ibelieve the US statistics, 1 in
(39:15):
36 currently have a diagnosisand historically it was
completely unknown.
That really does hint to a moreepigenetic or environmental
cause and it's an extremelycontroversial topic in some
regards.
But again, pointing to the workof Dr Cruz, it favors this idea
(39:37):
of artificial light and bluelight affecting neuronal
migration and that isessentially causing what is
known as an atavistic kind ofregression, almost in terms of
human behavior.
And for anyone interested, Ireally encourage you to read his
(39:58):
blog post on autism, which heactually wrote for Nicole
Shanahan, who is the vicepresident nominee, with RFK Jr
on their US political ticket.
But there's other veryintelligent people talking about
autism and Stephanie Seneff andher work with glyphosate and
(40:19):
industrial herbicidecontamination is one of them,
and the other ones which I thinkthere's increasing evidence for
could be again deuterium andpotentially polyunsaturated
fatty acids like linoleic acidfrom seed oil, and then anyone
who's followed RFK will know hisperspective in terms of the
(40:39):
causes, but that's not a topicthat we're going to discuss.
So I mean, the crux of thematter is that we can improve
these symptoms and potentiallydelay or prevent them by just
getting the light signals right.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, like, yes, yes, it really can be that simple is
managing a child's lightenvironment at night, including
the light that they're exposedto, but also the screens.
Like, even if we just focusedon that one area light
environment for our childrenlike we could see our kids go
(41:13):
leap and bounce just fromfocusing on that one area.
And then, when we bring in themorning, infrared light and then
more sunlight, that is how ourbiology is meant to work, right.
We were not meant to liveindoors, we are meant to live
outdoors.
That is how our biology works,in partnership with the sun and
nature.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
And so the more that we live in these concrete
bunkers, the sicker that we arebecoming, unfortunately, yeah,
and again, we don't need a PhDto realize that, but sometimes
we need to have this explainedin a simple way, like you're
doing.
Can you speak to sunglasses andsunscreen, and I imagine that
those are two topics that maybemoms are concerned about, that
(41:55):
maybe mums are concerned about.
How do you talk and discussthat topic?
How do you explain about thosetwo topics to people?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, so we live in the Pilbara, western Australia,
and we literally live in thehottest part of Australia, right
, and we don't use sunscreen.
And so people are like we don'tuse sunscreen.
Occasionally we use a littlebit of just zinc oxide when we
go out in the boat, which isusually just for underneath the
eyes and on the nose, butotherwise we do not use
(42:27):
sunscreen.
But what I do use, as a mother,is I use my intuition, right,
like I think this is a big partof what we have completely
disconnected from is our ownintuition.
You know the own sensations onour skin, like we know you can.
Actually you know when youfirst start.
You know this whole circadianlife is.
You can.
There's amazing apps that youcan use to check the UV and all
(42:50):
of that.
But if we just come back tosensations on our skin, what is
our skin type as well?
You know we all have the sameskin type in our family.
But I tell you what, when I wasa teenager and in my 20s, I
would walk outside and get burnt, and that was because I wore
sunglasses from about 12 yearsof age, and that moment that I
(43:11):
listened to that podcast, I tookthose sunnies off and I have
never worn them since, and thatwas nearly five years ago.
But when I did because we livein the hottest part of Australia
, my eyes, my eyesight I didn'trealize how bad it was, you know
, from wearing sunglasses for solong.
And so I had to do it gradually.
I had to expose my eyes firstto that morning infrared light
(43:31):
and I had to, like I would stillkeep my sunglasses on my head
everywhere I would go, becauseit was just habitual, you know,
I would literally walk in thedoor, put them on my head before
I walked out.
The sunglasses went on Right,and so I took the sunnies off
and but I was, I was gettingburnt quite badly in my teenage
years, in my twenties.
But I was also not exposing myskin or my eyes to that morning
(43:57):
light, right, which helps tobuild our solar callus and that
is important to not get burnt.
And you know, I just like thinkabout my 20s.
I worked in construction.
I worked 12 hour days, six daysa week.
I never I didn't see the sunfor six days.
And then on a Sunday I would goto the beach and I would get
burnt within the first 20minutes of being there.
(44:18):
Now I do not get burnt at all.
My kids don't get burnt at all.
You know we expose our solarpanels, our skin and our eyes as
much as possible to that firstmorning light every single
morning, and that helps to buildour solar callus.
And you know that is thefoundation of, you know, having
it's obviously looks good havinga healthy tan, but that is
(44:39):
what's going to stop us fromburning our skin too.
And so you know, talk aboutsunglasses.
Like the amount of kids you seethese days with sunnies on.
You know it's just like, it's afashion statement.
You know, once you get intothat preteens, but also young
kids and babies you know theamount of like little kids I see
with sunglasses and I thinkit's just a.
You know everyone's doing it.
(45:01):
Oh, we live here.
This is, you know, what youhave to do.
You have to wear lots ofsunscreen, you have to wear
sunglasses to protect your skinand your eyes, but it's actually
opposite to that.
That is opposite to what weshould be doing.
And when I took my sunnies offand I started exposing my skin
and my eyes to that morninglight, everything changed for me
.
My hormones started to.
(45:21):
You know, I actually had agreat menstrual cycle from there
on in.
I, you know, didn't get burnt.
I could be out in the sun for,like, I can be out in the sun
for six hours and not get burnt.
But use your intuition.
You know, like when you knowit's a high uv, like it's 15
plus in the summer here of a uv,and so I always let the kids
pretty much be out at the beachalmost naked for probably the
(45:43):
first 20 minutes and then I'llput a hat on them, then they'll
put their fishing shirts on.
We always take a big shade tothe beach.
You know it's like being sunresponsible, I think, is what's
really important and using yourintuition.
But yeah, the first thing isgetting out in that morning
light, that beautiful infraredlight.
That is what's going to primeand prep your skin and your body
(46:05):
to prevent you from gettingburnt.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, great advice.
And if anyone wants to dive intothe actual physiology of this,
I've addressed it in previouspodcasts, but essentially
there's a neuroendocrine loopthat orchestrates pigmentation
and the immediate pigmentresponse, and it links the
(46:31):
ocular sensation of differentlight wavelengths to the
cutaneous sensation through thenon-visual photoreceptor system,
amongst other mechanisms, thatallows the skin to pigment
appropriately based on theambient ultraviolet conditions.
So we're really hamstringingthat process when we're using
(46:52):
sunglasses and sunscreens too,and because we live in Australia
and we do have amongst thehighest incidence of skin
cancers in the world, because wemismatched, amongst other
reasons, compared to the nativepopulation.
So we just need to be smart,and the smartest way to do that
is using shade and recognizingthat you've got a mismatch of
(47:16):
your skin type to the ambientconditions and do exactly as
you're mentioning is simply justgo inside or go into shade if
you've had enough for your skintype.
So I think that's a great way,I think, of helping people
understand.
And I started to think aboutthe neurodevelopmental
(47:37):
development of these childrenwho are having no UV light,
because not only are they havingthat artificial blue during the
night and during inside time,but they're also being deprived
of UV light, which their bodiesneed to make pro-opioid
monocortin and if you againfollow Dr Jack Cruz's work, that
is the gene that essentiallysculpted us as homo sapiens.
(47:58):
So it's something that's a veryimportant topic that I'm glad
you're also discussing andtalking about.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Yeah, and it's like the foundation for setting up a
healthy skating rhythm for ourkids is sunlight.
You can't, you know, do allthese things but not get your
kids out in the sunlight becausethat is, you know, for a
minimum of two hours a day.
That's what preps and primestheir brains and bodies for all
the you know, these beautifulpathways of melatonin and
(48:28):
dopamine and all theneurotransmitters that are
needed for a happy, healthy kid,for a kid that has really good
quality sleep.
You know, like these are justthe foundations of children's
health, like this is the simplefoundations of a child's health,
but it's not talked aboutenough.
You know, like I started thisfive years ago and I remember
(48:48):
searching on the net andInstagram and everywhere I was
like someone's going to betalking about this, but no one
was.
And then it wasn't until threeyears later where I was like
Jess, you know, people weresaying you need to start sharing
this and sharing this and and Iwas like no, I reckon that
someone's sharing it already.
And I researched and researchedfor like a week and I was like
(49:08):
why is no one talking about thiswith for our kids?
You know, it's become quitemore well-known and popular with
adults but not our kids.
And I was like, oh okay, I'mgoing to have to start sharing
this, you know, and it's beenlike the reception of it has
been amazing, like people justlike this feels like the missing
link.
You know, like this is thething that I've been looking for
(49:30):
, that I didn't even know I waslooking for.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, amazing.
Maybe to finish off, you did anamazing post recently just
talking about sleep andcalculating the appropriate
amount of sleep for infants, fortoddlers, for children, for
adolescents.
Maybe just talk through thatgraphic that you posted and
explain that just conceptually.
(49:53):
I think that would be a benefitfor people conceptually, I
think that would be benefit forpeople.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
yeah, so, um, this was just like in reference, I
think, from sleepfoundationorg,and you know, because kids just
aren't getting enough sleepthese days and that is the
foundation of their health, like, if you're not getting enough
sleep for any human, then youknow we just don't have the
opportunity to heal and to restand to digest and you know that
is the time when our body andgrowth, you know, like
development, Prevent cancer.
(50:21):
Yeah, there's so much happeningand, yeah, when our kids are
deprived of melatonin throughblue light toxicity and
excessive screens, like they'renot getting the good quality
sleep that they really need, andinterestingly, there's not a
whole lot of sleep specialiststhat are actually talking about
this.
So I think most of the mothersthat come and see me and ask for
(50:44):
help are kids, you know, aroundthe age of like three to nine,
and so that's kind of like, youknow, pre-school, I would say.
Probably most of them arearound even three to six, like
and to six, and kids that arearound that age should be having
around 10 to 13 hours of sleep.
And some people will be likewhat?
There's no way my kid wouldsleep 12 hours a night.
(51:07):
My kids never used to sleepthat long, you know, going back
when I had two children, theywould be lucky to get six hours
of broken sleep a night, andthat is actually really common
for a lot of kids these days andso, but now my kids who are
ages four, seven and nine alljust had a birthday.
(51:28):
They now sleep all actuallypretty much the same, from the
three year old to the nine yearold.
They're all sleeping at least12 hours, I would say the
three-year-old probably sleeps13 hours, but the seven and
nine-year-old are both sleeping12 hours as well, and so their
recommended sleep through theSleep Foundation is around, yeah
(51:48):
, the 10, 11 hour mark andthey're sleeping.
I would say, yeah, 11 to 12hours a night.
Solid sleep too, you know, likethey're not waking up and know
needing to.
You know go to the toilet orthey're not waking up, um, and
like taking hours to go back tosleep is which what it used to
be like in our household.
They sleep solid, and the onlything that we change was their
(52:13):
light environment and how muchtime they spent outside.
If you look at it real simplylike they are the two
foundations, the two principlesof circadian rhythms that had
the most impact with our kids.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, it is remarkable that more people
aren't talking about it and, asyou mentioned, sleep consultants
aren't talking about it andsleep physicians you know people
adult patients get referred toa sleep physician for insomnia
and they're actually not beingtold the most basic tenets of
this circadian rhythm and thecircadian biology that you and I
(52:50):
have discussed and typicallythat ends up looking like, you
know, in adults, when childrenit looks like a melatonin
prescription and in adults it'seither melatonin or you know
something else, somethingheavier prescription, when you
know the patient hasn't even tosay this, because really it
should be common knowledge andit should be first-line advice
from all health practitioners.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, and you know melatonin is like it is
literally an epidemic.
(53:31):
It's like we're speaking aboutAustralia, for example.
You know these kids who arehaving serious sleep issues like
you said, insomnia as well andthey're prescribed melatonin
supplements.
But I remember Dr Jack Cruzsaying one time that the human
body right is meant to absorball frequencies of sunlight
throughout the day through theeyes and the skin, and so
(53:54):
melatonin production starts inthe morning when we expose our
eyes and skin to that firstmorning light and it's made up
of various different UV lightfrequencies.
But artificially createdmelatonin does not contain these
specific light signalingfrequencies and it ends up in
the gut and essentially nocircadian rhythm control.
(54:14):
So we don't know what effectthis artificial melatonin is
actually having on our kids longterm or what effect it's having
on their natural production ofmelatonin as well.
You know like it doesn'tcontain what infrared light does
contain, which naturally startsour production of melatonin.
So there's a lot that we don'tunderstand.
(54:35):
But we do know that artificialmelatonin can potentially cause
and harm the way that ournatural production of melatonin
works.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah, look, it's an area that needs more research,
that's for sure.
I mean, traditionally itsupposedly has a quite wide
therapeutic index andwell-tolerated.
But whenever we're kind of,yeah, as you mentioned,
introducing a hormone that ourbody is making, we really have
to ask what is the downstreameffect, and some have suggested
(55:06):
that's retinal thinning.
I haven't seen any hard data,but I'm open to the possibility
that there's some quite seriousnegative effect.
And look and again, not tolabor the point, but that that
kid also, who isn't sleepingduring the day, maybe they
during the night and get an adhddiagnosis and have to be on
(55:27):
melatonin.
That's also to medicate thealertness that they've
experienced because they've beenprescribed dexamphetamine for
their ad.
So the medication cycle of astimulant and then a hypnotic
agent is starting from a very,very young age, and I've even
(55:48):
seen kids who are prescribedrisperidone and antipsychotic
medications for behavioralcontrol and again, it's coming
back to these fundamental inputslike light and processed food
too, to some degree.
So yeah, we can't overstate howimportant this is and I think
maybe a parting message for thelisteners is just give it a try.
(56:09):
There's so little to lose byjust getting your family out and
following the advice that Jesshas shared and see what happens.
But the other point and youalluded to it is that this
actually takes the adults tochange.
It takes mom and dad toactually lead the way, because
the kids are going to followwhat mom and dad are doing.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, you know my kids didn't listen to that
podcast.
You know they didn't changeover the lights to blue blocking
lights, like they didn't do anyof that.
It takes the responsibility ofthe parent to do that.
And it can be hard to changehabits, like it doesn't happen
overnight.
But if we just like use, if wetake micro changes, like change
(56:53):
one thing a week, you know likewe can make it really easy for
ourselves.
It doesn't have to beoverwhelming like oh my god, I
gotta change my lights, I gottado this and I gotta do that.
Like like we've been livingthis life for nearly five years
and we're still evolving.
You know like there's stilllike things that we're adapting
to, or like new lights thatwe're buying or whatever it
might be changing over somelights, like there's still
(57:15):
always something right.
But it's like keep it reallysimple, like change one thing.
And I think that is like that isthe answer to this, because we
have become so disconnected fromour natural rhythms and from
nature that it's not going tohappen overnight to get back to
a place that we were, and wedon't want to be like where our
(57:35):
ancestors once were, but we wantto adopt some of those
principles and the way that weused to live.
We want to bring that into this,like tech, you know, driven
world that we live in now, likewe have to, because our biology
is never going to change, right?
It doesn't matter how much AIcomes into this life that we
live, our biology will neverchange.
(57:55):
It will always work inpartnership with the sun and we
need the right type of light forour bodies to thrive.
That is period right, like thatis fact and like we can't
ignore that.
And I think that the more thatwe share this message, the more
that people will be like literallight bulb moments like, of
course, no, that makes so muchsense.
Like literal light bulb momentslike, of course, you know, that
(58:16):
makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, you're right, the design specification of Homo
sapiens, and it's our relianceon solar energy.
And the circadian cycle withits 3.4 billion year history, is
not going to change no matterwhat brain-machine interface
gets invented.
So, yes, that's a very, verywise words and a great place to
(58:39):
finish.
Just tell us where people canconnect with you.
Say they've listened to this.
They think, wow, maybe I coulddefinitely make some change, but
want some guidance.
How can they get in touch withyou and how can they work with
you?
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yeah, so you can jump over to my Instagram, which is
just at circadiankids.
That's pretty much where I hangout.
I also have a community over onmy free Facebook group, but you
know, I have developed thisprogram called the Rhythm Reset
for Kids and I offer it twice ayear and I just, you know it
formed, it created itself.
It was basically what themothers needed, you know, like
(59:16):
what they were struggling withtheir kids, and I basically what
the mothers needed you know,like, what they were struggling
with their kids and I basicallybrought the principles of
circadian rhythms together and Ijust make it very simple and
just explain it very simple.
I go into a little bit of thebiology, but not much, because
we don't actually need to knowall that, right, like, we just
need to know that actually weneed to get our kids outside
more and off screens more andlike block blue light at night.
(59:38):
We can keep it really simple,and I keep it really simple,
especially for mothers who have,you know, these heightened
states of nervous systems andjust don't have the energy or
the capacity to be able to doone more thing, and so I just
basically help to invite smallmicro changes each week for four
weeks and that's in the RhythmReset for Kids.
(59:59):
You can check out my bio in myInstagram page.
There's information there whenit comes up again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Amazing.
We'll share that in the shownotes.
So, jess, thank you so much forsharing all this information
with the listeners.
Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Thank so much for having me.
I so appreciate it.
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