November 3, 2024 • 53 mins
I share my personal journey suffering from acne and irritable bowel syndrome, finding low carb nutrition then eventually circadian & quantum biology. Along the way I meet Dr Paul Saladino, Dr Jack Kruse in Central America, start the Regenerative Health Podcast and advocate for chronic disease reversal.
I was interviewed by my good friend Simon Lewis, my co-founder in REGENERATE and co-founder of How To Carnivore alongside Dr Anthony Chaffee. Check out his YouTube Channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@howtocarnivore/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Welcome, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Today we're lucky to be joined by my good friend, dr
Max Goulhane.
Max, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey, simon, thanks for having me on my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Okay, guys, I've had Dr Max on the podcast before and
I know him very well and I knowhis story, but he's never
really shared his story online.
I don't think, well, I haven'theard it.
And when I normally get Max onwhen we chat, we go deep into
sunlight and circadian healthand maybe nutrition as well.
(00:35):
But today, max, I want to heara bit more about your story and
how you got into this crazyworld of holistic health.
So, max, where did all of thisbegin for you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, look, it began with, I guess, our family's kind
of interest or medical kind ofbackground and there were a
couple of doctors in the familyand I really thought to myself
whether I wanted to be involvedin that and I had a good think,
I thought critically about itand I really didn't have enough
(01:11):
reasons not to at least give ita go.
So I finished school and wentto university, did an
undergraduate science degree atthe University of Queensland and
did a subsequent year, so afourth year of uh bench side
research using um mouse models.
And we actually did some pretty, pretty interesting research
(01:34):
using these poor mice that had agenetic mutation in their um,
in in one of the uh genes intheir gut.
Uh, that led to this misfoldingof a pretty key protein that's
involved in the mucus layer.
So these mice actuallydeveloped inflammatory bowel
disease pretty muchspontaneously when they reached
a certain age.
So what my project was wasactually feeding them what we
(01:58):
called at the time a high-fatdiet, but looking back with what
I know now, it was really aseed oil diet, a processed sugar
diet, a more of a, you couldsay, a standard American or
processed foods diet.
So these mice, when you gavethem this more industrialized
(02:19):
diet.
They had a more severephenotype or the more severe
effect of inflammatory boweldisease.
So that was interesting andthat was kind of my first touch
point, I guess, with theinfluence of diet and health.
But I really didn't think toomuch about it.
And the subsequent year I wentdown to Melbourne and started
(02:43):
medical school at the Universityof Melbourne and kind of put
that lifestyle and dietary facetof things onto the back burner
from an intellectual point ofview.
But really around the same timeand this is around the age of 19
to 21, I was developing andsuffering from pretty bad acne
(03:08):
and I was an active guy, I likedbike riding with friends and I
was eating.
In hindsight I was eating whatwould be quite a high sugar,
high grain diet um, perhaps notrefined sugar, but sugar from
things like fruit andparticularly and all these other
(03:30):
kinds of foods again thatpeople think are are healthy,
like up and go wheat, bix andand porridge oats.
So, and you know I was, I wasdoing this, I was physically
active, uh, eating this highercarb diet, probably not getting
a lot of deliberate sun exposureat all, and really suffering
(03:52):
from acne that obviously a lotof people have and get rid of by
the time they turn 17.
So kind of here I was and goingthrough this early adulthood
phase and learning aboutbiomedical science, learning
about medicine, and having thisparallel kind of journey as a
(04:14):
patient and experiencing what itwas to be a patient.
And although acne is, I guess,one of the milder, you could say
chronic diseases and maybelifestyle disease is more
appropriate it nevertheless wasreally instructive for me to
really understand about whatit's like to be a patient and
(04:37):
basically going through a ladderof treatments that start with
topical creams and antibioticcreams and then progressing to
oral antibiotics and thenfinally ending in things like
Roaccutane or isotretinoin,which is a very heavy drug that
has a range of undesirable sideeffects.
(04:59):
That was, I guess, instructivebecause that laid the path for
me to think more criticallyabout chronic disease from a
patient's point of view.
And then I went to Melbourneand enjoyed my time there,
learned a lot of interestingstuff with you know, it was a
(05:19):
very good curriculum.
But I guess my acne flared againand I'd actually stopped the
roaccutane because I basicallyhad symptoms of uh, anxiety,
depression.
So I actually self-seized themedication and you know, you, I
spoke to the treatingdermatologist, my my
dermatologist at the time andthey he gave some platitude
(05:40):
about, um, you know, anassociation with low mood that
was more related to having acnethan it was to the drug itself
and it wasn't.
It didn't acknowledge, trulylike the symptomology, it didn't
give me, as a patient at thetime, really clear, you know, uh
(06:01):
, legitimate my legitimatizationor, um, acceptance of that as a
possibility.
It was more dismissal ratherthan anything else and you know,
again, that was that's part ofthis understanding of what it's
what it is to be a patient.
So, around 2016 and 2017, uh, Iwas staying with a housemate of
(06:24):
mine, a very good friend of mine.
He's been ahead of the curvewith a lot of topics throughout
his life and he was eating avegan diet and I thought, hang
on, well, I'm obviouslysuffering from this issue and
there was things in the mediaabout improving planet health,
improving our health, so Ithought I'll try this vegan diet
(06:49):
and, lo and behold, not onlydid the acne progress, but it
also was accompanied by allkinds of other things like
recurrent colds, irritable bowelsyndrome and, again, in
hindsight, I was not getting alot of sunlight, I was eating
fruit out of season, I waseating a whole bunch of foods
(07:09):
that were essentially mismatchedto my latitude and mismatched
to the location that I wasliving, like a Melbourne winter,
but I didn't know anything likethat at the time, so it got to
a nadir or a bottom out, atroughing point that I think
everyone who makes changes intheir life and lifestyle kind of
(07:32):
has to get to.
And you know, I rememberclosing a door when I was going
to the hospital in medicalschool and thinking like just
feeling fatigued and tired andjust wondering is, if this is,
you know, is this how it'ssupposed to feel?
Like is are we supposed to bethis tired like for the rest of
(07:53):
our lives?
And you know, doing everythingthat we're supposed to be doing
with um, with regard to thesedietary guidelines.
So I don't know how I found itexactly, but somewhere along the
line I stumbled upon the lowcarb down under YouTube channel.
I wish I could remember theexact moment, but I couldn't.
(08:13):
I don't know where I found it,but somehow stumbled upon those
videos and began working my waythrough them and basically came
across this whole new idea ofunderstanding that diet could
potentially at least mitigateand then possibly even reverse
chronic diseases.
(08:34):
So, with really not a lot leftto lose.
I tried at first cutting outfruit and grains and then
increasing meat and did thislow-carb diet and rather quite
miraculously, my irritable boweltype syndromes went away and
(08:56):
the acne just cleared up.
And it was quickly.
I mean, it happened quicklyenough to obviously feel like
that.
That was a there was a massiveeffect and a massive difference
there.
So, uh, that was.
That was amazingly informative,um, and useful, and you know,
and you think back.
(09:16):
You think back to likeeverything that you go through
maybe years of thesepharmaceutical treatments and
years of discomfort andsuffering and the question in
your head is like why?
Why was I not told this?
So that point was the real,which coincided with my final
(09:36):
year of medical school, was alsolike contrasting which is what
I was learning in medical schooland what I just managed to, you
know, self-treat and yeah, thatwas really got me to, I guess,
the end of the beginning of myjourney in this space.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Nice Max, which videos on Low Carb Down Under
were you watching?
Was there a particular doctorwho you enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Paul Mason was one of the ones that stood out.
He I remember definitelywatching and enjoying all of his
videos.
Dr Ken Sikaris, who is achemical pathologist and had
some really good videos, thosewere and Gary Fetke those
probably were the three that Ikind of remember and, yeah, it
(10:27):
was fascinating because theywere referencing scientific
literature and that all was wellagain, well referenced and made
sense, but it wasn't anythingthat I'd be taught in the
curriculum.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, how did you go studying medicine while your
paradigm was was really shiftingtowards this realization that
nutrition is so important andyou don't need well,
carbohydrates aren't soimportant yeah, like, like I
think it's.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's a difficult place to be in because the
completion of the degree isreliant on simply checking boxes
that are stipulated by thecourse and by the university.
And really I think that's theheadspace that most doctors,
medical students, are in, andeven prior to getting into
(11:21):
medical school, which is let'sjust get into medical school.
Once you're in, let's justfinish this degree, or let's try
and get as high a score aspossible, and then, when you
finish the medical degree, it'sokay, now I just need to get
into this specialty.
And then, once you're workingas a registrar, it's like, okay,
I just need to become a fellow,a specialist.
So there's this tunnel visioningthat happens throughout the
(11:43):
whole process of the training ofMDs and doctors and clinicians.
That discourages inquisitivethought beyond what is
stipulated or taught in thecurriculum.
So my, I guess, just naturalinterest was to, I guess, teach
myself what I thought wasinteresting, while at the same
(12:06):
time you know at least passingthe degree, which you know I did
comfortably.
But the onus was very much, andI realized that the onus was
very much on us as individuals,on me, to teach myself and to
learn the type of informationthat you know wasn't being
(12:26):
taught in this.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know this institution so now you're a
practicing gp registrar up onthe northern rivers of new south
wales.
How did you decide?
You know, when you were doingyour medical degree, when you
were discovering low carb downunder, when you'd healed your
own acne, how did you decide,okay, this is the avenue that I
want to go down, and then maybeadd on a little bit onto what
(12:51):
that avenue is that you want togo down and how you want to
practice.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah.
So we left off at my arrival atlow carb and essentially the
time in between that and where Iam now was exploring more into
carnivore.
And that was because of figureslike Dr Sean Baker and Dr Paul
Saladino, and doing carnivorewas a step up above low carb in
terms of energy and in terms ofmood, in terms of stability,
(13:26):
just in general wellbeing.
So that was transformative andjust again amazing.
It felt like really and againin, like my mitochondrial colony
was just essentially beingrevved up and really finely
tuned and my energy output, myfeelings of well-being were, I
guess, attendant in thatimprovement in that
(13:49):
mitochondrial function.
But what happened was I startedworking as a junior doctor in
emergency departments generalmedical wards, obstetrics and
gynecology and thankfully duringthat time it was able to just
continue exploring these ideas.
(14:10):
For me I had, I think, what youcould say a similar encounter
with strict carnivore that PaulSaladino had, dr Saladino which
was after about eight months ofreally being strict.
I had, I guess, a new laggingof energy and a lagging of
vitality that I'd initiallyexperienced when I first went on
(14:34):
there.
So I was really curious as towhy that might be.
So it kept me just looking.
It kept me looking at aboutwhat else was going on and what
else could be at play here inthe health optimizing sphere,
because at that point I wasreally focused on diet
exclusively as a tool of healthoptimization, and I still think
(14:56):
it's a key pillar.
But my own experience kind ofinvited me to do a bit more deep
dive.
And that's when I got to DrJack Cruz.
And if you're on Twitter inthese kind of circles of where a
lot of these conversations arehappening, then you're
inevitably going to come acrosshis work and, for me, his tweets
(15:22):
, which are they're so dense ininformation and with conceptual
references that were foreign tome.
It was almost like hanging acarrot in front of a donkey or a
big chocolate cake in front ofa kid.
For me, I was compelled toexplore the ideas, and that's
(15:45):
when I was first introduced toideas about the effect of light
on metabolism, mitochondria andwhat are the other inputs into
mitochondrial function andcircadian rhythms and this idea
that we should be aligned to thenatural light cycle.
So I kind of added them into myrepertoire but really, really
(16:10):
gravitated towards what DrSaladino was talking about, and
he'd since subsequentlyreintroduced fruit and honey
into his diet after um havingflagging energy, lower uh
androgen like male hormonelevels and and lower perhaps, uh
, even impaired slightlyimpaired thyroid function um for
(16:31):
him in his personal experience.
So, um, I was following him andCOVID happened.
And I don't know where you were,simon, but I was at various
places in Melbourne when COVIDfirst hit, working in emergency
departments, and it was astressful time.
It was a period and maybe I'lljust say this euphemistically is
(16:58):
that the response was notcongruent, in my opinion, with
the epidemiology of theinfection.
In my time at Melbourne Uni Idid a whole year of public
health and I took infectiousdiseases epidemiology and what I
(17:19):
saw kind of rolling out prettyquickly after about three months
was really a bifurcation ofwhat would have been appropriate
versus what was actuallyhappening.
And maybe I won't say more thanthat, but suffice to say at the
end of 2022, or the beginningof 2022, sorry, when they
(17:44):
finally reopened the borders.
That was a period where I waspretty happy to leave Australia
at least temporarily, to leaveAustralia at least temporarily.
And in that journey again, Itold you I'd been really
following Dr Saladino's work andhis message.
(18:04):
I actually sought him out and Itraveled over to Costa Rica and
through basically a whole lot ofchance and the universe working
in mysterious ways, I actuallymet up with him in a very
serendipitous way and thatmeeting on a beach in Costa Rica
(18:28):
is a real inflection point anda turning point for me.
And, look, we had aconversation.
We discussed health, wediscussed the role of diet, we
discussed the role of light aswell, and he came away, he gave
me some advice, which I'm verygrateful to him for, which was,
(18:50):
you know, get a fellowshipqualification and kind of really
go from there, use that as yourfoundation to advocate for
lifestyle and lifestyle change.
So I left that meeting inmid-2022.
And that was the point that Ilaunched, or applied to general
(19:12):
practice training.
And that was also the point thatI decided to launch my podcast,
because I realized that I had alot of questions and I wanted
to talk to people like Dr Salpublicly.
But I needed to have some formof proof of work to, I guess,
get those people to talk to me.
So my podcast, regenerativeHealth, was really based on on
(19:36):
his podcast, fundamental health.
Uh, it's a homage to, to, topaul's podcast and uh, yeah,
that's.
That was the, the kind ofjourney that that really um, set
me up to, to where we are now.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Love it you know, I think there's something uh, sort
of otherworldly about actuallymeeting people in person and,
you know, shaking hands andthere's a sharing of vibrations
and energy, and that can oftenopen up a whole new world and it
can confirm things for you, orand it can steer you in a new
direction, and it sounds likethat definitely happened for you
(20:31):
when you, when you met Saladino, absolutely it was.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know it was a Absolutely, it was a path laid
out for you.
But sometimes, when you meetmentors, when you meet idols,
perhaps and there's somethingpowerful in that.
So I really mirror the comment,simon, which is, if anyone
listening is unsure about whatthey want to do or unsure of
(20:57):
finding a purpose or meaning intheir life or whatever they're
doing, just think about whatyou're interested in, think
about who are the people who aredoing the most exciting things
in that field and go seek themout.
I think you might be surprisedhow the universe works to
(21:17):
facilitate meetings that youknow can be pretty life-changing
100%.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's a shortcut.
You find somebody who's alreadydoing what you want to do, even
though it's not exactly that,but it is in some form.
You go and you know, try andcommunicate with them and try
and offer them something, andthat's one thing that I think is
great about podcasts.
First of all, it's kind of abit you know, it's all very
recent Like this has allhappened for you in the last two
(21:43):
and a half years and now you'revery much established, at least
in Australia, in the holistichealth scene.
Things can happen really quicklyand the beauty of having a
podcast or a YouTube channel orsomething like that is you can
easily add value to people.
So you can.
You know, you can invitesomebody on, you can have a
conversation and you'repromoting them.
But at the same time, you'rebuilding that connection, you're
getting to know each other andyou know that's so powerful.
(22:07):
I think that's definitelyturbocharged.
You having the podcast, meetingall these people, and now what
we're doing with Regeneratewe'll, we'll loop into at the
end.
That's yeah.
That's really acceleratingthings for us, which I think is
amazing.
So we've yeah you go max.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I was just going to mention that if anyone is on the
fence about, you know, startinga podcast, I would 100
encourage you to do so because,if nothing else, for the selfish
reason of of learning and andeveryone obviously has a
different learning style and youknow, studying, for example,
some people like visual learning, some people like to write
notes, but I think everyonelearns pretty well by talking to
(22:45):
someone else and the amount ofknowledge that you'll gain by
simply having a conversationwith an expert in the field and
testing your conceptualframework against theirs and
then coming away from thatdiscussion, retooling it,
reformulating it and then takingit to the next person and
(23:05):
basically going on this journey,this intellectual journey, and
taking your listeners and youraudience along with you.
I mean, that is that's, that'sit's fun and it's it's
rewarding's rewarding, and itfeels like not only you're
leveling up individually, butsometimes it really feels like
you're contributing to kind ofleveling up the consciousness of
(23:26):
humanity and not to sound toograndiose, but really there's
like steps of understanding ofideas in society.
If you think back to theinvention of the printing press,
before Gutenberg's printingpress, there was basically monks
had to hand scribe copies ofthe Bible there were no books
(23:51):
around because it took so muchtime and energy and effort to
simply copy and produce a book.
So there was no wonder.
Everyone was illiterate and theliteracy and reading and
writing was only done by monkswho were celibate and had enough
time to dedicate to learningand reading and writing.
But if you think about thatinvention, suddenly they were
(24:14):
able to mass accelerate thetransmission of knowledge and
then, if you bring us up to youknow, you fast forward to
telecommunications, thetelegraphs and the newspapers,
tv, radio.
I really feel podcast is thelatest and greatest iteration of
that technology which allowsanyone to not only learn
(24:37):
anything but really themselvesenter into this massive
conversation, digitalconversation and contribution of
knowledge gaining.
And so it's amazing.
It's amazing what technologyhas been able to do to help us
and it's amazing how much we canlearn if we're curious,
(24:58):
passionate and, yes, seek outpeople who we admire and who
have more knowledge than us inareas that we're interested in.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, the learning has been totally accelerated and
, you know, it makes me think of, like, say, kira or Cameron or
Tristan, those amazing speakersthat we had at Regenerate, all
super young, under 30, andsharing this information about
quantum biology, circadianhealth, you know, emfs.
That's really very cutting edgeand quite mind-blowing.
(25:31):
And these guys have fallen deepdown the rabbit hole, you know,
in some instances over theperiod of like two years, and
now they're essentially, youknow, experts in the top 0.1
percent of people who know aboutthese topics.
So it's, it's amazing what youcan find if you commit to learn
something.
Um, speaking of of learningsomething you've teased this a
(25:52):
few times with the sunlightreference and a bit of circadian
health how did you fall downthe sunlight, circadian Jack
Cruz rabbit hole?
Because when you first hearabout the power of, you know,
just getting natural sunlightand blocking blue light and you
know, really, tuning up thecircadian rhythm, you know, for
(26:12):
me at least, I thought, yeah,that sounds pretty helpful.
The circadian rhythm you got,you know, for me at least, I
thought, yeah, that soundspretty helpful.
But then I sort of, you know, Ididn't think, okay, you know,
and I have explored it,obviously through you know,
through you and encouraged byyou.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
But but what was it that made you think okay, I'm
gonna go deep in this and I wantto really push and experiment
it on myself yeah, look, I wasdoing a lot myself and and just
finding that when I wasstringing together perfect
circadian days of seeing thesunrise, spending at least 30
(26:43):
minutes but even longer in themorning sun, getting exposed to
the sun throughout the day, andthen just really be diligent in
blocking blue light after dark,whenever that was happening, I
got the feeling back that Ifirst got when I went carnival,
which I, as I mentioned, waswhat I believe is really the
(27:04):
mitochondrial colony simply kindof humming again.
That's very interesting, yeah,yeah.
And what was going on at thesame time was this as I
mentioned the journey on thepodcast, I interviewed Dr Jack
Cruz and he, in his verycharacteristic way some would
(27:27):
say you know, you insert youradjective and brash bombastic
you know, you, there's a,there's a.
You know, pick the theosaurusup and you can choose any um
kind of flavor of adjective touse to describe him.
But if nothing else, he umintellectually invites you to
explore ideas deeper than whereyou are currently, and it's a,
(27:51):
it's a, it's an invitation toswim into a deeper pool and I, I
really think of think of itthat way is.
And and for me, I felt like Iwas comfortable in in, maybe the
shallow end of the swimmingpool talking about diet, talking
about um, about a diet only,and basically saying you know
that's my wheelhouse, but butreally there was cruz, you know,
(28:13):
standing in the deep end, beinglike you know, you going to
just stay there or are you goingto come dive in here and
explore these topics?
So, after my three-part serieswith him, which was incredibly
in-depth, that was weaving inevolutionary biology, it was
weaving in quantum biology,quantum mechanics, it was
weaving in the circadian storyand it was weaving in his
(28:35):
perspectives on metabolicdisease and diabetes, which I
was and still am extremelyinterested in reversing and
preventing.
He weaved that into as itrelated to sunlight.
And really I kept researching,kept learning, and when you keep
going until you can, uh, untilyou find something that
(28:58):
disproves, uh, the statementsthat you're, you're, you're
trying to, um, verify, um,that's, I guess, the scientific
method.
And, and as I I obviouslyhaven't come close to, to the
end point and it, it again justmakes more and more and more and
more sense.
And really how I think about it,to kind of summarize, is that
(29:18):
optimal metabolic health, whichis what we're striving for with
a strict low-carbocondyl dietoptimal mental health, optimal
freedom from autoimmune disease,these all exist.
I see them as subsets orincluded within, in a state
where the circadian and quantumbiological inputs are dialed.
(29:42):
And that really implies thatthere's a hierarchy or a
stepwise function in which, ifyou address the foundations
first, then you essentially getthe desired effect, which is
health optimization.
And it also implies thatperhaps, if you only look at
(30:04):
diet, you're not addressing theproblem at its most fundamental,
root cause.
And the foundations are whatCruz talks about, I believe,
which are these ideas of light,water and magnetism.
And the reason why that is thecase is because they are the
fundamental inputs intomitochondrial biology.
(30:29):
And the story of mitochondrialhealth is the story of chronic
disease.
As I mentioned, I felt amazingwhen my mitochondrial colony was
tuned.
When someone gets a chronicdisease, whether that's
Alzheimer's disease, parkinson'sdisease, type 2 diabetes,
chronic kidney disease, they'resimply manifesting an
(30:50):
organ-specific state ofmitochondrial end stage
dysfunction, cancer included.
So, and really, if we want totake this back to the beginning
of the whole story, then we do.
We really want to understandwhat are the fundamental inputs
into, into mitochondrialphysiology.
And, uh, you know that that'swhere they are.
(31:10):
So you might be thinking aboutfood, and where does food fit
into that?
Well, you can think about foodas a photosynthetic product,
meaning that food at its core islight.
It's transformed light energyfrom the sun.
That grass blade grew becausethe plant was able to fix carbon
(31:41):
dioxide from the atmospherewith water and under the power
of sunlight.
So that is where I guess itfits in.
And look, we can talk about howthat is applied in practice.
And everyone, you know everyonehas a different degree, I think
, to which and sensitivity towhich these, these circadian
(32:02):
signals, um really, uh, changetheir perception of of how they
feel.
But, uh, if we were to bepuritanic about these circadian
and quantum inputs, which isconsistent with our ancestral
evolution for 4 million years ashomonyms, hominids, then that
(32:25):
really is the root cause.
Fix that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love it.
You know, I think the adventureoften begins when you delve
into new information, and thatwhole world of the unknown is
fascinating, it's opportunity.
It can be a little scary,particularly when you have your
paradigm fixed on certain things, am I?
(32:54):
You know, I can easily justsort of double down on carnivore
and just keep watchingcarnivore podcast after
carnivore podcast and only hangout with carnivores.
But is that really going toexpand my horizon or increase my
awareness?
I don't think so.
I think delving into newterritories, trying things you
can always come back to whereyou were is amazing, and that's
what life is about, and I dolove that.
(33:16):
I get to meet people like youand other people in this
community who instinctively havethat curiosity and that thought
of okay, well, obviously wedon't know everything.
Now, you know and I think DrChafee says this I think either
you are taught this when youfirst start medical school or
you shouldn't be.
It's like half of what youlearn will be proven to be false
.
So have your wits about you andgo out there and discover and
(33:43):
test and do science.
You know science should be, uh,maybe an adjective rather than
just an out, rather thansomething fixed.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
So no, just give the um, absolutely, and I think it
is.
It's scary, it it's scary toreally delve into the unknown,
which is exactly what you'rereferencing, simon.
And it's even scarier to burnoff parts of you which is
essentially what, parts of ourego, which are intellectual
(34:11):
paradigms we've occupied or thatwe've spent years understanding
and talking about and buildingour identity around, and it's,
it's difficult and can be quitescary and painful to, um,
basically put them down andventure again into the unknown,
venture into the deep end, be anintellectual beginner again,
and that that's scary and but,but I see that as my duty as a
(34:35):
clinician and a doctor, andthat's because that's
essentially the oath and that'swhat we signed up for when we
took on this profession, whichis one, obviously, to do no harm
, but to really be advocates andhelp our patients as much as we
can.
So I see the intellectualcuriosity as a duty, and I know
(34:58):
Dr Jack Cruz thinks the same,and I don't judge other people
who do remain in their, perhapsin the shallow end, unless
they're making a lot of money touh, you know, to, to, to stay
there and they're potentiallymisleading people.
But really, uh, yeah, it's,it's not easy, but I, as I said,
(35:21):
it's it's it's an imperativeand a duty.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
That's that's how I think about it well, I do judge
those who, um, try to stiflepeople from actually exploring
these new ideas, because thatdoes my absolute head in.
And that's you.
You know that.
Trust the science stuff, showme the study it's like you know.
Be a little bit moreopen-minded and realise that
this information isn't fixed.
(35:43):
So yeah, they're the people whomake things a little unpleasant
.
I find, max, I'm picturing ajunior doctor who has just
discovered the world of lightand circadian health being asked
to do night shift.
Did that happen to you andhow'd that go down?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
yeah, I did a lot of night shift throughout junior
doctoring in many differenthospitals and you know, you, you
, once, you understand circadianbiology and you understand, uh,
the effect of night shift andthe data, the, the evidence
about its impact on health, andyou don't become too, um, you
know, excited about it.
(36:23):
But look, thankfully it,knowledge is power, and I was
really able to implement andunderstand how my body works and
the body responds to differentinputs.
When you, when you, um, youknow, kind of tune them for
night shift and you know, by theend, or at this point, I know
exactly what to do to minimizethe disruption to, to my health
(36:46):
of night shift, and so that's apositive, and I've talked about
that at length, um, in previouspodcasts.
So it can be done and Iobviously respect everyone who
does it, but I would also givethe information that, um, if you
can don't do night shiftbecause you're shortening your
life, uh, it's that simple yeah,I wouldn't want any of my loved
(37:08):
ones to be doing it, it's, it'sjust so brutal.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Um, all right.
So you, uh, you discovered thecarnivore diet and you shook
saladino's hand.
You discovered the world oflight.
Have you?
Have you shook or shaken cruz'shand?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
yeah, I, I did, I was .
I was lucky enough to travel toel salvador at the beginning of
this year and an interesting itwas a health conference, but
really a gathering of interested, light-interested people and a
couple of doctors in El Salvador.
It was called the Age of Lightand yeah, dr Cruz was actually,
(37:50):
you know, he was there.
He presented and he actuallypresented about a medical bill,
a constitutional amendment thathe'd written for the El
Salvadoran president, nayibBukele, with the goal of
changing or preventing the useof medicine, the hijacking of
(38:13):
medicine or whatever variousmeans as we've seen happen in
the West, in America, inAustralia, england, and really
that is a very broad,encompassing amendment.
It hasn't been passed yet andI'm not sure what the status is.
I do know for a fact that itwas passed to RFK Jr and the
(38:38):
Trump campaign and that wasbasically after RFK started
talking about mitochondrialhealth.
Chronic disease was in a largepart after reading the
constitutional amendment thatCruz proposed, that Cruz
proposed, but essentially itenshrines protection on the
(38:58):
medical industry and on doctorsto protect the patient-doctor
relationship and handicaps onindustry to exploit people,
exploit processes and usemedications and pharmaceutical
medications in ways that aren'tin the best interests of the
(39:20):
patient and really enshriningthe sanctity, as I mentioned, of
the doctor to decide, inconjunction with the patient and
full informed consent, whatthey should or shouldn't do, and
no one else should have inputinto that, uh, into that
relationship and that decision,and unfortunately, that is
(39:40):
exactly what we saw.
Uh, you know, from from 2020onwards.
So, um, but, but briefly, yes,I did meet dr cruz and, uh, it
was great, it was great to meethim in person.
Uh, we, we did talk, um about alot of these things that that,
you know, uh, have been thesubject of my podcast and, you
(40:00):
know, since meeting him, he sentme down a a very interesting,
um kind of route with myinterviews that I'm continuing
to pursue, which, you know, atthe moment has been focused on
really conveying the importanceof sunlight and health,
exploring skin cancer andsunlight's relationship to skin
(40:21):
cancer, and beginning to talkmore about quantum biology and
the role of things like thequantum mechanical processes
happening in the body andendogenous light that gets
emitted from the body.
All these kind of cutting-edgeconcepts that centralised
medicine, centralised science,you know, haven't been talking
(40:41):
or promoting about at all.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, awesome.
It may just be my echo chamberand your echo chamber, but it
does feel like holistic healthis going mainstream.
You know we're seeing RFk jrbecome a big part of trump's
campaign and rfk's whole messageis make america healthy again,
and for him he appears to bestarting with food.
(41:07):
You know he wants chemicals outof farming.
He wants ultra, ultra processedfood off the menu and he's
bringing seed oils into themainstream, which is phenomenal,
like you wouldn't.
These days, a lot of people arecatching on to what seed oils
are.
You compare now to 12 monthsago, and it's day and night.
It's unbelievable.
What do you think about thismovement and how do you fit into
(41:32):
it?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah, and how do you fit into it?
Yeah, look, I think thatsocietal movements they occur.
It's like a pendulum swingingand when enough people are sick
and diseased and over-medicatedand suffering and dying from
preventable lifestyle diseasesand not getting adequate advice
about reversal and preventionfrom people that should be
(41:57):
giving them that advice, thenit's simply an inevitable thing
that movements like RFK juniorswill emerge, and often it is
just the right person at theright time with the right
message, who's had a uniquejourney that really puts them
into a position of being able toadvocate for an issue.
(42:19):
And RFK Jr, he's basicallyriding that wave at the moment
and this is a guy who talked alot for a long time about
environmentalism and chemicalcontamination and a whole range
of other important issues, butit seems like this is the time
and the place for him to talkabout chronic disease.
(42:42):
So I see it as an inevitabilitythat this issue is kind of
raised and I think that it's upto individuals to explore,
understand and really talk aboutit.
And, look, I think that I'msomeone who is trying to
(43:03):
understand as much as I can so Ican communicate more
effectively and, again, helpspread these messages, and I'm
by no means diminishing thereally importance of improving
food quality quality, of gettingendocrine disrupting chemicals,
food additives, out of thesystem, improving agriculture
and that's definitely a massivepassion of mine and it's just so
(43:25):
happens.
At the moment my, my emphasis isis on light, and really I think
that's because of of need aswell, which is that, um,
sometimes if there's enoughpeople already talking about an
issue, then, uh, and you have adifferent skill set.
Then sometimes you're asked tostep up and talk about and
advocate for an issue thatperhaps other people don't have
(43:47):
the understanding or orknowledge yet to to talk about.
So I guess I I'm gonna be bethere promoting the
understanding or the awarenessof circadian rhythm disruption
on health, of an inadequateamount or deficiency of natural
sunlight, of these toxic indoorenvironments that are deprived
of natural, non-visible light,and I'm going to be, you know,
(44:12):
advocating for all this, youknow, at the same time as really
encouraging and cheering onpeople like RFK who are leading
with the food message, but Idon't doubt that they're
eventually going to come aroundto see how important light is
for health.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I agree with that.
You know.
I think like if you look at themeans siblings, right now they
are focused on food.
I think it makes particularsense for Callie, who's
previously worked for Coca-Cola,to sort of focus on food.
I think a logical next step isto look at things like life and
at the moment that's probablyconsidered a little bit too far
(44:50):
out there.
The most socially acceptablewould probably be, you know,
ultra-processed foods and nowseed oils are becoming a little
bit more kind of accepted too.
But you know, eventually peoplewill look at the light
environment and eventually, Ithink, emfs and radiation will
also hit a more mainstream pointas well.
(45:13):
But it's almost like a sort ofjumping off point.
And you know, like we weretalking about before the call,
cruz is so advanced and socertain about his stance and you
know, having listened to quitea few Cruz podcasts myself, I do
tend to agree with him and Ithink he has the sort of big
(45:35):
picture pretty well covered.
But you sort of need to meetpeople where they are sometimes
and he tries to expect people tobe like all the way down his
rabbit hole and as advanced intheir thinking as he is, and I
don't think that's necessarily agood way to communicate with
the masses, whereas the likes ofthe Means and now RFK as well.
(45:58):
They really are communicatingwith the people somewhat where
they are, which is really coolto see.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, and look to finish, the RFK point.
I wrote a really brief essaythat I put on Twitter, which is
that, whatever happens with thiselection, I think RFK's
messaging about chronic diseasehas really changed this Overton
window, which is this kind ofrange of acceptable talking
points in the public discourse.
(46:27):
He's fundamentally shifted thatso that it's going to be
difficult for any party tocontinue to pretend that there's
not a problem.
And I read there was an article.
I think it was talking aboutone of these public events that
(46:47):
was advocating for improvingcurrent disease in America, and
one of these ivory towerinstitutional mouthpieces maybe
it was something like theAtlantic wrote a kind of a I
wouldn't say hit piece, but adisparaging article that
essentially, to paraphrase, saidcontrary to what was the
(47:10):
advocates, the food and healthadvocates at this event, you
know, experts assert that thepublic health crisis in America
and children is overblown.
So there was some kind ofstatement to kind of minimize
the degree of the problem.
And you know, in many parts ofAustralia well, it's not as bad
as the US, but the number ofkids that are coming in with,
(47:33):
you know, on the autism spectrumis with neurodevelopmental
issues, is absolutely enormous.
And we had this whole nationaldisability insurance scheme and
autism is the fastest-growingdiagnosis on that essentially
program, meaning that everyonein the country, the society, is
(47:56):
bearing the cost of this chronicdisease which is, you know,
afflicting children.
So this becomes imperativecollectively for us to
understand what is causing thesediseases, and you know they're
mitochondrial and etiology andthey're related to lifestyle.
So whatever happens, as Imentioned, with this election, I
think what Callie and Casey aredoing to advocate is great.
(48:20):
I think what RFK is doing ismassive and I hope that that
gets mirrored here in Australia.
And really that's what you andI are doing, simon, with our
Regenerate brand.
We've done three events now.
First was in Albury, second wasin Melbourne, third was in
Albury this year and we're goingto do another event early next
(48:47):
year to kind of continue to makenoise that and remind people
that this is actually a problemthat needs to be addressed.
Yes, on a societal level, butto address it on a societal
level we actually also need toaddress it individually.
So the more awareness there isthat this is a problem, then we
can actually start talking aboutthe solutions.
But first it does have to berecognised as problematic, and
(49:09):
that's what we're workingtowards, I guess.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Absolutely yeah.
The more we can raise thatawareness, the more we can stop
people sweeping it under the rug, the more people can stop
saying it's normal.
You know, as you were saying,these rates of autism in kids,
that ain't normal, all theserates of chronic disease you
have a look at a chart.
They're going gangbusters andthat's not normal.
People should be healthy.
People living in a naturalenvironment are healthy and
(49:32):
everybody should be concernedabout this.
Healthy and everybody should beconcerned about this.
Fortunately, people likeyourself, those big figures in
America and a growing number ofAustralian doctors and health
professionals are speaking upand they're not being silenced
like they were.
So the tide is really changing,which is exciting.
And, yeah, I agree, that's ourmission with Regenerate and I
(49:54):
think over time, regenerate willgrow and get a wider and wider
appeal as these issues arebrought to the discussion, to
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, you can't hold a swing one of those party balls
, you know the pool ball.
You can't hold it under thewater forever.
Like it will come to thesurface and that's the truth.
Like the truth, especially withthis hyper-connected world, is
is more and more difficult to toconceal the truth with this
access to information.
So the more people learn, themore everyone's knowledge gets
(50:29):
upgraded, the more people canspeak out and the more people
can implement changes like theones that you and I advocate for
.
And yeah, that's how the worldeventually changes, but it
happens slowly and it happensone individual at a time.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's the sort ofunexpected benefit of the
internet.
When it comes out and wheneverybody starts being connected
, it's like, oh, people willjust lie to each other.
Well, the about, you know, adecentralized network is that
the truth comes back around andand people might lie in the
short term, but the awarenessand the knowledge really, really
(51:07):
grows.
So and and that's definitelywhat's happening in this space-
yeah, and I want to congratulateyou as well, simon.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I mean you're doing absolutely tremendous work with
your how To Carnivore group withDr Chafee and I think I said it
in August in Albury which isyou've helped more people
reverse their type 2 diabetesthan any endocrinologist here in
this country and that's nothyperbole.
(51:36):
I'm not aware of you knowanyone who practicing
endocrinologists that haveactually reversed more cases of
type 2 diabetes than yourselfand Dr Chafee, so using a
carnivore type diet.
So this will get out, andyou're, I think you know, just
keep it up like.
Keep it up and things change,as I mentioned, one person at a
(52:00):
time.
Thanks, max.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
I appreciate that.
All right, dr Max Gulhane,thank you so much for your time.
That was an excellentconversation.
I think people are going toreally enjoy hearing your story,
so thank you very much.
Thanks, simon.
Welcome, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Today we're lucky to be joined by my good friend, dr
Max Goulhane.
Max, welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey, simon, thanks for having me on my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Okay, guys, I've had Dr Max on the podcast before and
I know him very well and I knowhis story, but he's never
really shared his story online.
I don't think, well, I haven'theard it.
And when I normally get Max onwhen we chat, we go deep into
sunlight and circadian healthand maybe nutrition as well.
(00:35):
But today, max, I want to heara bit more about your story and
how you got into this crazyworld of holistic health.
So, max, where did all of thisbegin for you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, look, it began with, I guess, our family's kind
of interest or medical kind ofbackground and there were a
couple of doctors in the familyand I really thought to myself
whether I wanted to be involvedin that and I had a good think,
I thought critically about itand I really didn't have enough
(01:11):
reasons not to at least give ita go.
So I finished school and wentto university, did an
undergraduate science degree atthe University of Queensland and
did a subsequent year, so afourth year of uh bench side
research using um mouse models.
And we actually did some pretty, pretty interesting research
(01:34):
using these poor mice that had agenetic mutation in their um,
in in one of the uh genes intheir gut.
Uh, that led to this misfoldingof a pretty key protein that's
involved in the mucus layer.
So these mice actuallydeveloped inflammatory bowel
disease pretty muchspontaneously when they reached
a certain age.
So what my project was wasactually feeding them what we
(01:58):
called at the time a high-fatdiet, but looking back with what
I know now, it was really aseed oil diet, a processed sugar
diet, a more of a, you couldsay, a standard American or
processed foods diet.
So these mice, when you gavethem this more industrialized
(02:19):
diet.
They had a more severephenotype or the more severe
effect of inflammatory boweldisease.
So that was interesting andthat was kind of my first touch
point, I guess, with theinfluence of diet and health.
But I really didn't think toomuch about it.
And the subsequent year I wentdown to Melbourne and started
(02:43):
medical school at the Universityof Melbourne and kind of put
that lifestyle and dietary facetof things onto the back burner
from an intellectual point ofview.
But really around the same timeand this is around the age of 19
to 21, I was developing andsuffering from pretty bad acne
(03:08):
and I was an active guy, I likedbike riding with friends and I
was eating.
In hindsight I was eating whatwould be quite a high sugar,
high grain diet um, perhaps notrefined sugar, but sugar from
things like fruit andparticularly and all these other
(03:30):
kinds of foods again thatpeople think are are healthy,
like up and go wheat, bix andand porridge oats.
So, and you know I was, I wasdoing this, I was physically
active, uh, eating this highercarb diet, probably not getting
a lot of deliberate sun exposureat all, and really suffering
(03:52):
from acne that obviously a lotof people have and get rid of by
the time they turn 17.
So kind of here I was and goingthrough this early adulthood
phase and learning aboutbiomedical science, learning
about medicine, and having thisparallel kind of journey as a
(04:14):
patient and experiencing what itwas to be a patient.
And although acne is, I guess,one of the milder, you could say
chronic diseases and maybelifestyle disease is more
appropriate it nevertheless wasreally instructive for me to
really understand about whatit's like to be a patient and
(04:37):
basically going through a ladderof treatments that start with
topical creams and antibioticcreams and then progressing to
oral antibiotics and thenfinally ending in things like
Roaccutane or isotretinoin,which is a very heavy drug that
has a range of undesirable sideeffects.
(04:59):
That was, I guess, instructivebecause that laid the path for
me to think more criticallyabout chronic disease from a
patient's point of view.
And then I went to Melbourneand enjoyed my time there,
learned a lot of interestingstuff with you know, it was a
(05:19):
very good curriculum.
But I guess my acne flared againand I'd actually stopped the
roaccutane because I basicallyhad symptoms of uh, anxiety,
depression.
So I actually self-seized themedication and you know, you, I
spoke to the treatingdermatologist, my my
dermatologist at the time andthey he gave some platitude
(05:40):
about, um, you know, anassociation with low mood that
was more related to having acnethan it was to the drug itself
and it wasn't.
It didn't acknowledge, trulylike the symptomology, it didn't
give me, as a patient at thetime, really clear, you know, uh
(06:01):
, legitimate my legitimatizationor, um, acceptance of that as a
possibility.
It was more dismissal ratherthan anything else and you know,
again, that was that's part ofthis understanding of what it's
what it is to be a patient.
So, around 2016 and 2017, uh, Iwas staying with a housemate of
(06:24):
mine, a very good friend of mine.
He's been ahead of the curvewith a lot of topics throughout
his life and he was eating avegan diet and I thought, hang
on, well, I'm obviouslysuffering from this issue and
there was things in the mediaabout improving planet health,
improving our health, so Ithought I'll try this vegan diet
(06:49):
and, lo and behold, not onlydid the acne progress, but it
also was accompanied by allkinds of other things like
recurrent colds, irritable bowelsyndrome and, again, in
hindsight, I was not getting alot of sunlight, I was eating
fruit out of season, I waseating a whole bunch of foods
(07:09):
that were essentially mismatchedto my latitude and mismatched
to the location that I wasliving, like a Melbourne winter,
but I didn't know anything likethat at the time, so it got to
a nadir or a bottom out, atroughing point that I think
everyone who makes changes intheir life and lifestyle kind of
(07:32):
has to get to.
And you know, I rememberclosing a door when I was going
to the hospital in medicalschool and thinking like just
feeling fatigued and tired andjust wondering is, if this is,
you know, is this how it'ssupposed to feel?
Like is are we supposed to bethis tired like for the rest of
(07:53):
our lives?
And you know, doing everythingthat we're supposed to be doing
with um, with regard to thesedietary guidelines.
So I don't know how I found itexactly, but somewhere along the
line I stumbled upon the lowcarb down under YouTube channel.
I wish I could remember theexact moment, but I couldn't.
(08:13):
I don't know where I found it,but somehow stumbled upon those
videos and began working my waythrough them and basically came
across this whole new idea ofunderstanding that diet could
potentially at least mitigateand then possibly even reverse
chronic diseases.
(08:34):
So, with really not a lot leftto lose.
I tried at first cutting outfruit and grains and then
increasing meat and did thislow-carb diet and rather quite
miraculously, my irritable boweltype syndromes went away and
(08:56):
the acne just cleared up.
And it was quickly.
I mean, it happened quicklyenough to obviously feel like
that.
That was a there was a massiveeffect and a massive difference
there.
So, uh, that was.
That was amazingly informative,um, and useful, and you know,
and you think back.
(09:16):
You think back to likeeverything that you go through
maybe years of thesepharmaceutical treatments and
years of discomfort andsuffering and the question in
your head is like why?
Why was I not told this?
So that point was the real,which coincided with my final
(09:36):
year of medical school, was alsolike contrasting which is what
I was learning in medical schooland what I just managed to, you
know, self-treat and yeah, thatwas really got me to, I guess,
the end of the beginning of myjourney in this space.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Nice Max, which videos on Low Carb Down Under
were you watching?
Was there a particular doctorwho you enjoyed?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Paul Mason was one of the ones that stood out.
He I remember definitelywatching and enjoying all of his
videos.
Dr Ken Sikaris, who is achemical pathologist and had
some really good videos, thosewere and Gary Fetke those
probably were the three that Ikind of remember and, yeah, it
(10:27):
was fascinating because theywere referencing scientific
literature and that all was wellagain, well referenced and made
sense, but it wasn't anythingthat I'd be taught in the
curriculum.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, how did you go studying medicine while your
paradigm was was really shiftingtowards this realization that
nutrition is so important andyou don't need well,
carbohydrates aren't soimportant yeah, like, like I
think it's.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's a difficult place to be in because the
completion of the degree isreliant on simply checking boxes
that are stipulated by thecourse and by the university.
And really I think that's theheadspace that most doctors,
medical students, are in, andeven prior to getting into
(11:21):
medical school, which is let'sjust get into medical school.
Once you're in, let's justfinish this degree, or let's try
and get as high a score aspossible, and then, when you
finish the medical degree, it'sokay, now I just need to get
into this specialty.
And then, once you're workingas a registrar, it's like, okay,
I just need to become a fellow,a specialist.
So there's this tunnel visioningthat happens throughout the
(11:43):
whole process of the training ofMDs and doctors and clinicians.
That discourages inquisitivethought beyond what is
stipulated or taught in thecurriculum.
So my, I guess, just naturalinterest was to, I guess, teach
myself what I thought wasinteresting, while at the same
(12:06):
time you know at least passingthe degree, which you know I did
comfortably.
But the onus was very much, andI realized that the onus was
very much on us as individuals,on me, to teach myself and to
learn the type of informationthat you know wasn't being
(12:26):
taught in this.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
You know this institution so now you're a
practicing gp registrar up onthe northern rivers of new south
wales.
How did you decide?
You know, when you were doingyour medical degree, when you
were discovering low carb downunder, when you'd healed your
own acne, how did you decide,okay, this is the avenue that I
want to go down, and then maybeadd on a little bit onto what
(12:51):
that avenue is that you want togo down and how you want to
practice.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah.
So we left off at my arrival atlow carb and essentially the
time in between that and where Iam now was exploring more into
carnivore.
And that was because of figureslike Dr Sean Baker and Dr Paul
Saladino, and doing carnivorewas a step up above low carb in
terms of energy and in terms ofmood, in terms of stability,
(13:26):
just in general wellbeing.
So that was transformative andjust again amazing.
It felt like really and againin, like my mitochondrial colony
was just essentially beingrevved up and really finely
tuned and my energy output, myfeelings of well-being were, I
guess, attendant in thatimprovement in that
(13:49):
mitochondrial function.
But what happened was I startedworking as a junior doctor in
emergency departments generalmedical wards, obstetrics and
gynecology and thankfully duringthat time it was able to just
continue exploring these ideas.
(14:10):
For me I had, I think, what youcould say a similar encounter
with strict carnivore that PaulSaladino had, dr Saladino which
was after about eight months ofreally being strict.
I had, I guess, a new laggingof energy and a lagging of
vitality that I'd initiallyexperienced when I first went on
(14:34):
there.
So I was really curious as towhy that might be.
So it kept me just looking.
It kept me looking at aboutwhat else was going on and what
else could be at play here inthe health optimizing sphere,
because at that point I wasreally focused on diet
exclusively as a tool of healthoptimization, and I still think
(14:56):
it's a key pillar.
But my own experience kind ofinvited me to do a bit more deep
dive.
And that's when I got to DrJack Cruz.
And if you're on Twitter inthese kind of circles of where a
lot of these conversations arehappening, then you're
inevitably going to come acrosshis work and, for me, his tweets
(15:22):
, which are they're so dense ininformation and with conceptual
references that were foreign tome.
It was almost like hanging acarrot in front of a donkey or a
big chocolate cake in front ofa kid.
For me, I was compelled toexplore the ideas, and that's
(15:45):
when I was first introduced toideas about the effect of light
on metabolism, mitochondria andwhat are the other inputs into
mitochondrial function andcircadian rhythms and this idea
that we should be aligned to thenatural light cycle.
So I kind of added them into myrepertoire but really, really
(16:10):
gravitated towards what DrSaladino was talking about, and
he'd since subsequentlyreintroduced fruit and honey
into his diet after um havingflagging energy, lower uh
androgen like male hormonelevels and and lower perhaps, uh
, even impaired slightlyimpaired thyroid function um for
(16:31):
him in his personal experience.
So, um, I was following him andCOVID happened.
And I don't know where you were,simon, but I was at various
places in Melbourne when COVIDfirst hit, working in emergency
departments, and it was astressful time.
It was a period and maybe I'lljust say this euphemistically is
(16:58):
that the response was notcongruent, in my opinion, with
the epidemiology of theinfection.
In my time at Melbourne Uni Idid a whole year of public
health and I took infectiousdiseases epidemiology and what I
(17:19):
saw kind of rolling out prettyquickly after about three months
was really a bifurcation ofwhat would have been appropriate
versus what was actuallyhappening.
And maybe I won't say more thanthat, but suffice to say at the
end of 2022, or the beginningof 2022, sorry, when they
(17:44):
finally reopened the borders.
That was a period where I waspretty happy to leave Australia
at least temporarily, to leaveAustralia at least temporarily.
And in that journey again, Itold you I'd been really
following Dr Saladino's work andhis message.
(18:04):
I actually sought him out and Itraveled over to Costa Rica and
through basically a whole lot ofchance and the universe working
in mysterious ways, I actuallymet up with him in a very
serendipitous way and thatmeeting on a beach in Costa Rica
(18:28):
is a real inflection point anda turning point for me.
And, look, we had aconversation.
We discussed health, wediscussed the role of diet, we
discussed the role of light aswell, and he came away, he gave
me some advice, which I'm verygrateful to him for, which was,
(18:50):
you know, get a fellowshipqualification and kind of really
go from there, use that as yourfoundation to advocate for
lifestyle and lifestyle change.
So I left that meeting inmid-2022.
And that was the point that Ilaunched, or applied to general
(19:12):
practice training.
And that was also the point thatI decided to launch my podcast,
because I realized that I had alot of questions and I wanted
to talk to people like Dr Salpublicly.
But I needed to have some formof proof of work to, I guess,
get those people to talk to me.
So my podcast, regenerativeHealth, was really based on on
(19:36):
his podcast, fundamental health.
Uh, it's a homage to, to, topaul's podcast and uh, yeah,
that's.
That was the, the kind ofjourney that that really um, set
me up to, to where we are now.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Love it you know, I think there's something uh, sort
of otherworldly about actuallymeeting people in person and,
you know, shaking hands andthere's a sharing of vibrations
and energy, and that can oftenopen up a whole new world and it
can confirm things for you, orand it can steer you in a new
direction, and it sounds likethat definitely happened for you
(20:31):
when you, when you met Saladino, absolutely it was.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You know it was a Absolutely, it was a path laid
out for you.
But sometimes, when you meetmentors, when you meet idols,
perhaps and there's somethingpowerful in that.
So I really mirror the comment,simon, which is, if anyone
listening is unsure about whatthey want to do or unsure of
(20:57):
finding a purpose or meaning intheir life or whatever they're
doing, just think about whatyou're interested in, think
about who are the people who aredoing the most exciting things
in that field and go seek themout.
I think you might be surprisedhow the universe works to
(21:17):
facilitate meetings that youknow can be pretty life-changing
100%.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's a shortcut.
You find somebody who's alreadydoing what you want to do, even
though it's not exactly that,but it is in some form.
You go and you know, try andcommunicate with them and try
and offer them something, andthat's one thing that I think is
great about podcasts.
First of all, it's kind of abit you know, it's all very
recent Like this has allhappened for you in the last two
(21:43):
and a half years and now you'revery much established, at least
in Australia, in the holistichealth scene.
Things can happen really quicklyand the beauty of having a
podcast or a YouTube channel orsomething like that is you can
easily add value to people.
So you can.
You know, you can invitesomebody on, you can have a
conversation and you'repromoting them.
But at the same time, you'rebuilding that connection, you're
getting to know each other andyou know that's so powerful.
(22:07):
I think that's definitelyturbocharged.
You having the podcast, meetingall these people, and now what
we're doing with Regeneratewe'll, we'll loop into at the
end.
That's yeah.
That's really acceleratingthings for us, which I think is
amazing.
So we've yeah you go max.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I was just going to mention that if anyone is on the
fence about, you know, startinga podcast, I would 100
encourage you to do so because,if nothing else, for the selfish
reason of of learning and andeveryone obviously has a
different learning style and youknow, studying, for example,
some people like visual learning, some people like to write
notes, but I think everyonelearns pretty well by talking to
(22:45):
someone else and the amount ofknowledge that you'll gain by
simply having a conversationwith an expert in the field and
testing your conceptualframework against theirs and
then coming away from thatdiscussion, retooling it,
reformulating it and then takingit to the next person and
(23:05):
basically going on this journey,this intellectual journey, and
taking your listeners and youraudience along with you.
I mean, that is that's, that'sit's fun and it's it's
rewarding's rewarding, and itfeels like not only you're
leveling up individually, butsometimes it really feels like
you're contributing to kind ofleveling up the consciousness of
(23:26):
humanity and not to sound toograndiose, but really there's
like steps of understanding ofideas in society.
If you think back to theinvention of the printing press,
before Gutenberg's printingpress, there was basically monks
had to hand scribe copies ofthe Bible there were no books
(23:51):
around because it took so muchtime and energy and effort to
simply copy and produce a book.
So there was no wonder.
Everyone was illiterate and theliteracy and reading and
writing was only done by monkswho were celibate and had enough
time to dedicate to learningand reading and writing.
But if you think about thatinvention, suddenly they were
(24:14):
able to mass accelerate thetransmission of knowledge and
then, if you bring us up to youknow, you fast forward to
telecommunications, thetelegraphs and the newspapers,
tv, radio.
I really feel podcast is thelatest and greatest iteration of
that technology which allowsanyone to not only learn
(24:37):
anything but really themselvesenter into this massive
conversation, digitalconversation and contribution of
knowledge gaining.
And so it's amazing.
It's amazing what technologyhas been able to do to help us
and it's amazing how much we canlearn if we're curious,
(24:58):
passionate and, yes, seek outpeople who we admire and who
have more knowledge than us inareas that we're interested in.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, the learning has been totally accelerated and
, you know, it makes me think of, like, say, kira or Cameron or
Tristan, those amazing speakersthat we had at Regenerate, all
super young, under 30, andsharing this information about
quantum biology, circadianhealth, you know, emfs.
That's really very cutting edgeand quite mind-blowing.
(25:31):
And these guys have fallen deepdown the rabbit hole, you know,
in some instances over theperiod of like two years, and
now they're essentially, youknow, experts in the top 0.1
percent of people who know aboutthese topics.
So it's, it's amazing what youcan find if you commit to learn
something.
Um, speaking of of learningsomething you've teased this a
(25:52):
few times with the sunlightreference and a bit of circadian
health how did you fall downthe sunlight, circadian Jack
Cruz rabbit hole?
Because when you first hearabout the power of, you know,
just getting natural sunlightand blocking blue light and you
know, really, tuning up thecircadian rhythm, you know, for
(26:12):
me at least, I thought, yeah,that sounds pretty helpful.
The circadian rhythm you got,you know, for me at least, I
thought, yeah, that soundspretty helpful.
But then I sort of, you know, Ididn't think, okay, you know,
and I have explored it,obviously through you know,
through you and encouraged byyou.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
But but what was it that made you think okay, I'm
gonna go deep in this and I wantto really push and experiment
it on myself yeah, look, I wasdoing a lot myself and and just
finding that when I wasstringing together perfect
circadian days of seeing thesunrise, spending at least 30
(26:43):
minutes but even longer in themorning sun, getting exposed to
the sun throughout the day, andthen just really be diligent in
blocking blue light after dark,whenever that was happening, I
got the feeling back that Ifirst got when I went carnival,
which I, as I mentioned, waswhat I believe is really the
(27:04):
mitochondrial colony simply kindof humming again.
That's very interesting, yeah,yeah.
And what was going on at thesame time was this as I
mentioned the journey on thepodcast, I interviewed Dr Jack
Cruz and he, in his verycharacteristic way some would
(27:27):
say you know, you insert youradjective and brash bombastic
you know, you, there's a,there's a.
You know, pick the theosaurusup and you can choose any um
kind of flavor of adjective touse to describe him.
But if nothing else, he umintellectually invites you to
explore ideas deeper than whereyou are currently, and it's a,
(27:51):
it's a, it's an invitation toswim into a deeper pool and I, I
really think of think of itthat way is.
And and for me, I felt like Iwas comfortable in in, maybe the
shallow end of the swimmingpool talking about diet, talking
about um, about a diet only,and basically saying you know
that's my wheelhouse, but butreally there was cruz, you know,
(28:13):
standing in the deep end, beinglike you know, you going to
just stay there or are you goingto come dive in here and
explore these topics?
So, after my three-part serieswith him, which was incredibly
in-depth, that was weaving inevolutionary biology, it was
weaving in quantum biology,quantum mechanics, it was
weaving in the circadian storyand it was weaving in his
(28:35):
perspectives on metabolicdisease and diabetes, which I
was and still am extremelyinterested in reversing and
preventing.
He weaved that into as itrelated to sunlight.
And really I kept researching,kept learning, and when you keep
going until you can, uh, untilyou find something that
(28:58):
disproves, uh, the statementsthat you're, you're, you're
trying to, um, verify, um,that's, I guess, the scientific
method.
And, and as I I obviouslyhaven't come close to, to the
end point and it, it again justmakes more and more and more and
more sense.
And really how I think about it,to kind of summarize, is that
(29:18):
optimal metabolic health, whichis what we're striving for with
a strict low-carbocondyl dietoptimal mental health, optimal
freedom from autoimmune disease,these all exist.
I see them as subsets orincluded within, in a state
where the circadian and quantumbiological inputs are dialed.
(29:42):
And that really implies thatthere's a hierarchy or a
stepwise function in which, ifyou address the foundations
first, then you essentially getthe desired effect, which is
health optimization.
And it also implies thatperhaps, if you only look at
(30:04):
diet, you're not addressing theproblem at its most fundamental,
root cause.
And the foundations are whatCruz talks about, I believe,
which are these ideas of light,water and magnetism.
And the reason why that is thecase is because they are the
fundamental inputs intomitochondrial biology.
(30:29):
And the story of mitochondrialhealth is the story of chronic
disease.
As I mentioned, I felt amazingwhen my mitochondrial colony was
tuned.
When someone gets a chronicdisease, whether that's
Alzheimer's disease, parkinson'sdisease, type 2 diabetes,
chronic kidney disease, they'resimply manifesting an
(30:50):
organ-specific state ofmitochondrial end stage
dysfunction, cancer included.
So, and really, if we want totake this back to the beginning
of the whole story, then we do.
We really want to understandwhat are the fundamental inputs
into, into mitochondrialphysiology.
And, uh, you know that that'swhere they are.
(31:10):
So you might be thinking aboutfood, and where does food fit
into that?
Well, you can think about foodas a photosynthetic product,
meaning that food at its core islight.
It's transformed light energyfrom the sun.
That grass blade grew becausethe plant was able to fix carbon
(31:41):
dioxide from the atmospherewith water and under the power
of sunlight.
So that is where I guess itfits in.
And look, we can talk about howthat is applied in practice.
And everyone, you know everyonehas a different degree, I think
, to which and sensitivity towhich these, these circadian
(32:02):
signals, um really, uh, changetheir perception of of how they
feel.
But, uh, if we were to bepuritanic about these circadian
and quantum inputs, which isconsistent with our ancestral
evolution for 4 million years ashomonyms, hominids, then that
(32:25):
really is the root cause.
Fix that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love it.
You know, I think the adventureoften begins when you delve
into new information, and thatwhole world of the unknown is
fascinating, it's opportunity.
It can be a little scary,particularly when you have your
paradigm fixed on certain things, am I?
(32:54):
You know, I can easily justsort of double down on carnivore
and just keep watchingcarnivore podcast after
carnivore podcast and only hangout with carnivores.
But is that really going toexpand my horizon or increase my
awareness?
I don't think so.
I think delving into newterritories, trying things you
can always come back to whereyou were is amazing, and that's
what life is about, and I dolove that.
(33:16):
I get to meet people like youand other people in this
community who instinctively havethat curiosity and that thought
of okay, well, obviously wedon't know everything.
Now, you know and I think DrChafee says this I think either
you are taught this when youfirst start medical school or
you shouldn't be.
It's like half of what youlearn will be proven to be false
.
So have your wits about you andgo out there and discover and
(33:43):
test and do science.
You know science should be, uh,maybe an adjective rather than
just an out, rather thansomething fixed.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
So no, just give the um, absolutely, and I think it
is.
It's scary, it it's scary toreally delve into the unknown,
which is exactly what you'rereferencing, simon.
And it's even scarier to burnoff parts of you which is
essentially what, parts of ourego, which are intellectual
(34:11):
paradigms we've occupied or thatwe've spent years understanding
and talking about and buildingour identity around, and it's,
it's difficult and can be quitescary and painful to, um,
basically put them down andventure again into the unknown,
venture into the deep end, be anintellectual beginner again,
and that that's scary and but,but I see that as my duty as a
(34:35):
clinician and a doctor, andthat's because that's
essentially the oath and that'swhat we signed up for when we
took on this profession, whichis one, obviously, to do no harm
, but to really be advocates andhelp our patients as much as we
can.
So I see the intellectualcuriosity as a duty, and I know
(34:58):
Dr Jack Cruz thinks the same,and I don't judge other people
who do remain in their, perhapsin the shallow end, unless
they're making a lot of money touh, you know, to, to, to stay
there and they're potentiallymisleading people.
But really, uh, yeah, it's,it's not easy, but I, as I said,
(35:21):
it's it's it's an imperativeand a duty.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
That's that's how I think about it well, I do judge
those who, um, try to stiflepeople from actually exploring
these new ideas, because thatdoes my absolute head in.
And that's you.
You know that.
Trust the science stuff, showme the study it's like you know.
Be a little bit moreopen-minded and realise that
this information isn't fixed.
(35:43):
So yeah, they're the people whomake things a little unpleasant
.
I find, max, I'm picturing ajunior doctor who has just
discovered the world of lightand circadian health being asked
to do night shift.
Did that happen to you andhow'd that go down?
Speaker 2 (36:03):
yeah, I did a lot of night shift throughout junior
doctoring in many differenthospitals and you know, you, you
, once, you understand circadianbiology and you understand, uh,
the effect of night shift andthe data, the, the evidence
about its impact on health, andyou don't become too, um, you
know, excited about it.
(36:23):
But look, thankfully it,knowledge is power, and I was
really able to implement andunderstand how my body works and
the body responds to differentinputs.
When you, when you, um, youknow, kind of tune them for
night shift and you know, by theend, or at this point, I know
exactly what to do to minimizethe disruption to, to my health
(36:46):
of night shift, and so that's apositive, and I've talked about
that at length, um, in previouspodcasts.
So it can be done and Iobviously respect everyone who
does it, but I would also givethe information that, um, if you
can don't do night shiftbecause you're shortening your
life, uh, it's that simple yeah,I wouldn't want any of my loved
(37:08):
ones to be doing it, it's, it'sjust so brutal.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Um, all right.
So you, uh, you discovered thecarnivore diet and you shook
saladino's hand.
You discovered the world oflight.
Have you?
Have you shook or shaken cruz'shand?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
yeah, I, I did, I was .
I was lucky enough to travel toel salvador at the beginning of
this year and an interesting itwas a health conference, but
really a gathering of interested, light-interested people and a
couple of doctors in El Salvador.
It was called the Age of Lightand yeah, dr Cruz was actually,
(37:50):
you know, he was there.
He presented and he actuallypresented about a medical bill,
a constitutional amendment thathe'd written for the El
Salvadoran president, nayibBukele, with the goal of
changing or preventing the useof medicine, the hijacking of
(38:13):
medicine or whatever variousmeans as we've seen happen in
the West, in America, inAustralia, england, and really
that is a very broad,encompassing amendment.
It hasn't been passed yet andI'm not sure what the status is.
I do know for a fact that itwas passed to RFK Jr and the
(38:38):
Trump campaign and that wasbasically after RFK started
talking about mitochondrialhealth.
Chronic disease was in a largepart after reading the
constitutional amendment thatCruz proposed, that Cruz
proposed, but essentially itenshrines protection on the
(38:58):
medical industry and on doctorsto protect the patient-doctor
relationship and handicaps onindustry to exploit people,
exploit processes and usemedications and pharmaceutical
medications in ways that aren'tin the best interests of the
(39:20):
patient and really enshriningthe sanctity, as I mentioned, of
the doctor to decide, inconjunction with the patient and
full informed consent, whatthey should or shouldn't do, and
no one else should have inputinto that, uh, into that
relationship and that decision,and unfortunately, that is
(39:40):
exactly what we saw.
Uh, you know, from from 2020onwards.
So, um, but, but briefly, yes,I did meet dr cruz and, uh, it
was great, it was great to meethim in person.
Uh, we, we did talk, um about alot of these things that that,
you know, uh, have been thesubject of my podcast and, you
(40:00):
know, since meeting him, he sentme down a a very interesting,
um kind of route with myinterviews that I'm continuing
to pursue, which, you know, atthe moment has been focused on
really conveying the importanceof sunlight and health,
exploring skin cancer andsunlight's relationship to skin
(40:21):
cancer, and beginning to talkmore about quantum biology and
the role of things like thequantum mechanical processes
happening in the body andendogenous light that gets
emitted from the body.
All these kind of cutting-edgeconcepts that centralised
medicine, centralised science,you know, haven't been talking
(40:41):
or promoting about at all.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, awesome.
It may just be my echo chamberand your echo chamber, but it
does feel like holistic healthis going mainstream.
You know we're seeing RFk jrbecome a big part of trump's
campaign and rfk's whole messageis make america healthy again,
and for him he appears to bestarting with food.
(41:07):
You know he wants chemicals outof farming.
He wants ultra, ultra processedfood off the menu and he's
bringing seed oils into themainstream, which is phenomenal,
like you wouldn't.
These days, a lot of people arecatching on to what seed oils
are.
You compare now to 12 monthsago, and it's day and night.
It's unbelievable.
What do you think about thismovement and how do you fit into
(41:32):
it?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah, and how do you fit into it?
Yeah, look, I think thatsocietal movements they occur.
It's like a pendulum swingingand when enough people are sick
and diseased and over-medicatedand suffering and dying from
preventable lifestyle diseasesand not getting adequate advice
about reversal and preventionfrom people that should be
(41:57):
giving them that advice, thenit's simply an inevitable thing
that movements like RFK juniorswill emerge, and often it is
just the right person at theright time with the right
message, who's had a uniquejourney that really puts them
into a position of being able toadvocate for an issue.
(42:19):
And RFK Jr, he's basicallyriding that wave at the moment
and this is a guy who talked alot for a long time about
environmentalism and chemicalcontamination and a whole range
of other important issues, butit seems like this is the time
and the place for him to talkabout chronic disease.
(42:42):
So I see it as an inevitabilitythat this issue is kind of
raised and I think that it's upto individuals to explore,
understand and really talk aboutit.
And, look, I think that I'msomeone who is trying to
(43:03):
understand as much as I can so Ican communicate more
effectively and, again, helpspread these messages, and I'm
by no means diminishing thereally importance of improving
food quality quality, of gettingendocrine disrupting chemicals,
food additives, out of thesystem, improving agriculture
and that's definitely a massivepassion of mine and it's just so
(43:25):
happens.
At the moment my, my emphasis isis on light, and really I think
that's because of of need aswell, which is that, um,
sometimes if there's enoughpeople already talking about an
issue, then, uh, and you have adifferent skill set.
Then sometimes you're asked tostep up and talk about and
advocate for an issue thatperhaps other people don't have
(43:47):
the understanding or orknowledge yet to to talk about.
So I guess I I'm gonna be bethere promoting the
understanding or the awarenessof circadian rhythm disruption
on health, of an inadequateamount or deficiency of natural
sunlight, of these toxic indoorenvironments that are deprived
of natural, non-visible light,and I'm going to be, you know,
(44:12):
advocating for all this, youknow, at the same time as really
encouraging and cheering onpeople like RFK who are leading
with the food message, but Idon't doubt that they're
eventually going to come aroundto see how important light is
for health.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I agree with that.
You know.
I think like if you look at themeans siblings, right now they
are focused on food.
I think it makes particularsense for Callie, who's
previously worked for Coca-Cola,to sort of focus on food.
I think a logical next step isto look at things like life and
at the moment that's probablyconsidered a little bit too far
(44:50):
out there.
The most socially acceptablewould probably be, you know,
ultra-processed foods and nowseed oils are becoming a little
bit more kind of accepted too.
But you know, eventually peoplewill look at the light
environment and eventually, Ithink, emfs and radiation will
also hit a more mainstream pointas well.
(45:13):
But it's almost like a sort ofjumping off point.
And you know, like we weretalking about before the call,
cruz is so advanced and socertain about his stance and you
know, having listened to quitea few Cruz podcasts myself, I do
tend to agree with him and Ithink he has the sort of big
(45:35):
picture pretty well covered.
But you sort of need to meetpeople where they are sometimes
and he tries to expect people tobe like all the way down his
rabbit hole and as advanced intheir thinking as he is, and I
don't think that's necessarily agood way to communicate with
the masses, whereas the likes ofthe Means and now RFK as well.
(45:58):
They really are communicatingwith the people somewhat where
they are, which is really coolto see.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, and look to finish, the RFK point.
I wrote a really brief essaythat I put on Twitter, which is
that, whatever happens with thiselection, I think RFK's
messaging about chronic diseasehas really changed this Overton
window, which is this kind ofrange of acceptable talking
points in the public discourse.
(46:27):
He's fundamentally shifted thatso that it's going to be
difficult for any party tocontinue to pretend that there's
not a problem.
And I read there was an article.
I think it was talking aboutone of these public events that
(46:47):
was advocating for improvingcurrent disease in America, and
one of these ivory towerinstitutional mouthpieces maybe
it was something like theAtlantic wrote a kind of a I
wouldn't say hit piece, but adisparaging article that
essentially, to paraphrase, saidcontrary to what was the
(47:10):
advocates, the food and healthadvocates at this event, you
know, experts assert that thepublic health crisis in America
and children is overblown.
So there was some kind ofstatement to kind of minimize
the degree of the problem.
And you know, in many parts ofAustralia well, it's not as bad
as the US, but the number ofkids that are coming in with,
(47:33):
you know, on the autism spectrumis with neurodevelopmental
issues, is absolutely enormous.
And we had this whole nationaldisability insurance scheme and
autism is the fastest-growingdiagnosis on that essentially
program, meaning that everyonein the country, the society, is
(47:56):
bearing the cost of this chronicdisease which is, you know,
afflicting children.
So this becomes imperativecollectively for us to
understand what is causing thesediseases, and you know they're
mitochondrial and etiology andthey're related to lifestyle.
So whatever happens, as Imentioned, with this election, I
think what Callie and Casey aredoing to advocate is great.
(48:20):
I think what RFK is doing ismassive and I hope that that
gets mirrored here in Australia.
And really that's what you andI are doing, simon, with our
Regenerate brand.
We've done three events now.
First was in Albury, second wasin Melbourne, third was in
Albury this year and we're goingto do another event early next
(48:47):
year to kind of continue to makenoise that and remind people
that this is actually a problemthat needs to be addressed.
Yes, on a societal level, butto address it on a societal
level we actually also need toaddress it individually.
So the more awareness there isthat this is a problem, then we
can actually start talking aboutthe solutions.
But first it does have to berecognised as problematic, and
(49:09):
that's what we're workingtowards, I guess.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Absolutely yeah.
The more we can raise thatawareness, the more we can stop
people sweeping it under the rug, the more people can stop
saying it's normal.
You know, as you were saying,these rates of autism in kids,
that ain't normal, all theserates of chronic disease you
have a look at a chart.
They're going gangbusters andthat's not normal.
People should be healthy.
People living in a naturalenvironment are healthy and
(49:32):
everybody should be concernedabout this.
Healthy and everybody should beconcerned about this.
Fortunately, people likeyourself, those big figures in
America and a growing number ofAustralian doctors and health
professionals are speaking upand they're not being silenced
like they were.
So the tide is really changing,which is exciting.
And, yeah, I agree, that's ourmission with Regenerate and I
(49:54):
think over time, regenerate willgrow and get a wider and wider
appeal as these issues arebrought to the discussion, to
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, you can't hold a swing one of those party balls
, you know the pool ball.
You can't hold it under thewater forever.
Like it will come to thesurface and that's the truth.
Like the truth, especially withthis hyper-connected world, is
is more and more difficult to toconceal the truth with this
access to information.
So the more people learn, themore everyone's knowledge gets
(50:29):
upgraded, the more people canspeak out and the more people
can implement changes like theones that you and I advocate for
.
And yeah, that's how the worldeventually changes, but it
happens slowly and it happensone individual at a time.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's the sort ofunexpected benefit of the
internet.
When it comes out and wheneverybody starts being connected
, it's like, oh, people willjust lie to each other.
Well, the about, you know, adecentralized network is that
the truth comes back around andand people might lie in the
short term, but the awarenessand the knowledge really, really
(51:07):
grows.
So and and that's definitelywhat's happening in this space-
yeah, and I want to congratulateyou as well, simon.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I mean you're doing absolutely tremendous work with
your how To Carnivore group withDr Chafee and I think I said it
in August in Albury which isyou've helped more people
reverse their type 2 diabetesthan any endocrinologist here in
this country and that's nothyperbole.
(51:36):
I'm not aware of you knowanyone who practicing
endocrinologists that haveactually reversed more cases of
type 2 diabetes than yourselfand Dr Chafee, so using a
carnivore type diet.
So this will get out, andyou're, I think you know, just
keep it up like.
Keep it up and things change,as I mentioned, one person at a
(52:00):
time.
Thanks, max.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
I appreciate that.
All right, dr Max Gulhane,thank you so much for your time.
That was an excellentconversation.
I think people are going toreally enjoy hearing your story,
so thank you very much.
Thanks, simon.
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