BYRON HINTERLAND RETREAT - Circadian Living by Regenerative Health Retreats

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to.
She Said what the podcast?
Today I am here with Dr MaxGoulhane.
Welcome to actually welcome toyour own backyard because we're
on.
We're in the Byron hinterlandsright now.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thank you, caitlin.
It's a pleasure to sit downwith you.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm so excited for this.
If you are just listening andyou're not actually watching
this, to set the scene, we areon some really cool chairs.
We're in the back of thisbeautiful rainforest up in Byron
, so this is a really coolspecial episode.
For those who do not know you,who are you and what do you do?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, so I'm a GP registrar, so I'm a clinical
doctor.
I see patients, but I also havea very deep interest in
preventative health,preventative health care and
disease prevention and longevityoptimization.
Preventative health care anddisease prevention and longevity
optimisation essentially how tokeep people well and prevent
them from getting sick.
And that is, I think, what Iarrived at after seeing that the

(00:55):
focus of mainstream medicine,as I was taught and other
doctors are taught, is effectivein addressing the sick people.
But really that's at the end ofa very long process, a disease
process where people could havebeen helped decades prior and
potentially avoided or avertedsome myriad of chronic diseases,

(01:20):
from cancer, autoimmunediseases, diabetes and these
various other problems that areessentially making people
incapacitated and ill beforetheir time.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Okay, cool.
So did you study to be a doctorfirst and then, throughout, I
guess, your client or yourpatients, you saw that everyone
was sicker than you realised.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
So mine was a bit of a unique personal story as well.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I was studying medicine down in Melbourne, yeah
, and along this period andgoing through a science degree
before that, I developed acne.
And I developed it in my early20s, kind of after everyone had
been and done that in their teenyears.
So it was inconvenient, itwasn't nice and I went through a

(02:11):
standard medical approach tothat acne treatment.
And you can think about acne inmany ways like a chronic
disease and there's essentiallyjust ladders.
There's a ladder step inmedicine to prescribe different
doses and strengths andmedications with different

(02:31):
routes for this treatment.
If one doesn't work, you simplystep up to the next step and
that's the same whether it's ahigh blood pressure, whether
it's diabetes or whether it'sacne.
So I was on this ladder oftopical treatments, of oral
antibiotics, and then finally,you know, the acne sledgehammer

(02:52):
which many people know isRoaccutane, which is known as
isotretinoin, and you know I wasseeing a dermatologist and no
one mentioned.
Hey, you know there's alifestyle component to this
condition.
No one said that to me.
So I got to the stage of beingon this very, very heavy drug
and it's actually a vitamin Aanalogue and we could talk about

(03:13):
how it works and how that tiesinto holistic health.
But essentially I became quitedepressed, stopped it, had
enough insight to stop it myselfand then started looking about
what else was going on here.
Part of that journey wasdiscovering that low-carb, and
later carnivore, nutrition was areally helpful lever in

(03:35):
essentially stopping thesymptoms at their root.
And so going through medicalschool and having this personal
patient experience, that wasinstructive.
And then it made me think well,if we're not telling people how
to reverse and prevent theiracne, what else are we not
telling people to prevent andreverse?

(03:55):
So I guess I did my medicalstudies and I'm continuing to
almost finish them with my GPtraining.
But along the way I've beendoing private and personal
investigation into how can weaddress the root causes of this
Crohn's disease epidemic rightat a fundamental level.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
That's really similar to my journey.
I have Crohn's disease and wentthrough the whole Western
medical system and then no oneaddressed my lifestyle.
No one was like you need tostop partying, you need to stop
drinking alcohol.
It was just like here's somebiologic medication, here's some
like we're going to justoperate and that's all it is.
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, and it's sad because I feel like people
deserve this information andthey deserve to say no to the
option to change their lifestyle.
But they should at least havebeen informed that, hey, if you
build up your vitamin D levelthrough natural, healthy,
progressive sun exposure, thenthis influences the gut barrier

(04:55):
function.
This could potentially improvegut symptoms in inflammatory
bowel disease, and there'senough evidence out there.
It's not like this scientificevidence doesn't exist.
Pubmed is filled with thereferences to justify these type
of healthy behaviours, but it'ssimply not reflected in what a
gastroenterologist is taught totell you.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And really their tools are pharmaceutical and
sure they do work, but againthey're not getting to the root
cause of why that disease aroseand therefore how to effectively
prevent it right at its root.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah.
So, coming back to your storywith acne, and then the things
that pulled the lever, youmentioned carnivore.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that and the other things
that you did with your acne?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, absolutely so.
At the time I was living inMelbourne and not getting a lot
of sun exposure at all.
And later found out that, youknow, my vitamin D level was
quite low For me at that point Iwas especially when the acne
was was its worst.
I was eating a lot of grains, alot of fruit, legumes.

(06:00):
This was in a period where andI'm sure other people can relate
to this and I believe thateating a more plant-based diet
was the best thing for my health, for the, for the environment,
for the planet and and so on andso forth, which later I
discovered is not true.
On all those, those metrics,yeah, but and eating that, that

(06:20):
type of diet and and thecritical point wrong was that
this wasn't compatible with mylocal area.
It's it was July, august, in inMelbourne.
This I shouldn't have beeneating tropical fruits, I
shouldn't have been eating, youknow, grains harvested maybe a
thousand, 2000 kilometers away.
And that was, you know, part,large part, of the reason why my

(06:43):
, my, why my acne was flaring.
And the acne was a physical orcutaneous, a skin manifestation
of essentially a broken gutlining and a dysfunctional gut
barrier, and that can manifestin different people in different
ways.
Like for you it was Crohn'sdisease, for other people it's
psoriasis, but it's veryindividual.

(07:05):
But cutting out those grainsand cutting out those plant
foods and fruit and all thiskind of thing unseasonally was
the first step to fixing thatgut barrier, and the way I think
about it now was removing oneof the stimuluses for provoking

(07:26):
an immune response that wasreally reflective of acne, but
it wasn't, and carnivore as wellsimply the next step, but it
wasn't doing anything tonecessarily strengthen that gut
barrier and that's where thesunlight stuff comes in.
But for that period of my lifeit worked extremely well and low
carb and then carnivore no acneanymore.
And in addition to that, awhole bunch of really other

(07:47):
non-specific symptoms that Ididn't know were a problem also
went away, and maybe you canrelate to this too yeah so, uh,
you know, upper spiritual tractinfections, like colds that you
thought are normal, didn't getthem anymore.
Yeah, um, more energy, bettermood, feeling more stable and
and less anxious All thesethings, these random symptoms
that I think we are conditionedto think are normal.

(08:11):
They disappeared when I madethose more strict dietary
changes.
And then, you know, fastforward a couple of years and
again, just exploring more ofthese topics and hearing the
work of Dr Jack Cruz, who is apretty iconic figure in health
optimization and really istalking about the sunlight,

(08:34):
mitochondria, more circadianbiology, and I realized too that
that is possibly even more ofan umbrella fix or solution.
Not to denigrate the importanceof diet.
It's absolutely important, butthere's other facets at play.
So it's been very much apersonal journey that's informed
my medical and kind ofintellectual explorations and

(08:58):
applying this in clinic andgiving these tools to patients,
finding that it's also helpedwith their symptoms, whether it
be obesity, weight loss,metabolic syndrome, reversing
chronic fatigue.
These fundamental principleswork no matter what the
condition is, and I guess we cantalk more about why that is the

(09:19):
case, but it's exciting.
It's exciting to be able togive someone, a patient,
something other than just alarger dose or another
pharmaceutical agent of theirmedication regime.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
This started from your ownstory as well, and I feel like a
lot of people in this industry.
It starts with them and that'swhat gives them not only the
experience but the passion toactually want to change, because
there's one thing to learnabout this stuff in a book or
you're watching YouTube oryou're doing a course, but to
actually experience it and Iknow this for myself with my
clients I'm like, fuck, I knowwhat you've been through, I get
it and I feel like that would bethe same with your clients and

(09:55):
sorry patients.
And then to be able to see thatdifference when they're coming
in with like obesity or whateverit is, and to be able to
reverse it, not via medication,but by like, go and watch the
sunrise.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Absolutely, and it actually does have to be a lived
experience for a practitioner.
I firmly have that belief.
And you know we can talk tocolleagues about the amazing
effects of carbohydraterestriction, you know, for
metabolic syndrome.
Our medical colleagues andtheir eyes just glaze over
because they haven't beenthrough it themselves.
Yeah, so there does need to bea't been through it themselves.

(10:26):
Yeah, yeah, so there does needto be a lived experience?
I think yeah, because otherwisepeople don't give it, they just
don't believe it and in thatsituation they're so much easier
to just default to what theguidelines say.
And they're changing slowly,but you know for patients
they're not changing quickenough.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So you went through your acnejourney, you started reversing,
you started like clearing upyour gut.
How did you get onto Jack Cruzand how did you find, like I
guess, the circadian sunlight, Iguess pathway that you're on
now?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
So Cruz is one of these figures where he puts out
such a dense tweet or interview.
He says so much packed into asmall amount of time.
It's almost like a.
It's like a cryptic puzzle, andif you're a curious person and
you're trying to alwaysunderstand the world better, it
might as well be like a massiveprize.
It's like a pinata that youneed to hit, and that's what it
is for me.

(11:23):
I need to keep asking andunderstanding.
So it was just like sittingthere inviting me to understand
more, and the way he presentshis information is really in
that way.
It's a challenge.
He's not going to spoon feedyou this.
This is what it is and how he'spresenting his interpretation

(11:44):
of disease with a lens ofcircadian and quantum biology.
And it's up to you tounderstand and implement.
And implementation is oftenwhere most people need to stop,
because they do everythingcorrectly.
They block artificial light,they see the sunrise, they build
up a solar, build up a solarcallus and they find a

(12:06):
tremendous benefit and that'sfine.
They don't necessarily need tounderstand, you know, the
mitochondrial membrane potentialor how near-infrared light's
interacting with components inthe mitochondria.
It doesn't matter, becausethey're finding benefit.
But for me as a clinician and, Iguess, a scientist, researcher,
then that was the entry pointfor me to start exploring these

(12:28):
topics and the emphasis of mywork lately and for the past two
years it really pivoted from adietary focused perspective to
the sunlight and circadianrhythms because and after I
talked to Cruz on my podcast andyou know he said you know,
we've got enough food gurus,it's time we need more light

(12:48):
gurus.
The point being, there's a lotof people speaking about the
roles of low-carbon carnivorediets very, very effectively,
like Dr Anthony Chafee, who'sgoing to be speaking at our
upcoming Regenerate Summit.
He's one of them but there seemto be less people speaking
about how critical light is forhealth, and disproportionately

(13:09):
so with the degree that it's soimportant for health.
But there was so few peoplespeaking that, yeah, I felt
called to make that a subject ofmy work and, yeah, it's been
very interesting to explore allthese and talk to so many
interesting people about it.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, do you think that's because it's more I don't
want to say taboo, but like tosay light's more important than
food, or like one of the biggestlevers in health and one of the
biggest things that affects us.
It's a bit more like oh, don'tsay that.
Like everyone knows that foodcan contribute to disease, but
to say light can fix disease,it's a bit more like crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
It is.
And the analogy is like thefish, the two fish swimming in
the water, in the ocean.
And you know, the old fishcomes by and is like you know,
look at all the water.
He makes a comment about waterand the two young fish say you
know what is water?
I love that.
So the point is, light is soubiquitous it's everywhere all

(14:00):
the time that it's difficult forpeople to appreciate its effect
on health.
And changing our lightenvironment and its effect on
health can be subtle and it cantake a bit longer than to
immediately say fast or toimmediately cut out X, y and Z
food.
So it's important.

(14:23):
I think that's one of the mainreasons why people don't think
about it as much, because it'severywhere.
But when you delve into howlight is interacting with our
bodies, with your body, how it'sregulating our bodily functions
, then some of this crazy stufflike standing in your underwear

(14:45):
facing the morning sunrise withyour feet in the ground, it
starts to make more sense whenyou understand that disease is
related to essentially thebioenergetic state of your
mitochondrial colony.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
And these ancient.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
You know, they were once bacteria and they became
incorporated into our cells.
They evolved in thisbillion-year process to be
highly dependent on naturallight wavelengths to function
optimally.
So you know, there's all otheraspects of this story, including
the vitamin D side of theinteraction with ultraviolet

(15:24):
light and production of thisvitamin D, actually a hormone,
this ancient system ofnon-visual photoreceptors that
actually can signal to the bodyin response to different light
wavelengths.
So the biology again exists,the literature exists, but it's

(15:44):
not being taught, it's not beingemphasized in health practice.
And that's really been theinnovation of Dr Cruz, which is
to take what is siloed scienceand translate that into
actionable things that normalpeople can do every day.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, cool.
So the light plays a huge partin it, and you mentioned disease
, right.
Can you talk us through about,especially like cancers, all
those things in regards to thelight environment?

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, so there was a guy, a scientist, researcher,
called Dr Doug Wallace and he isa biomedical researcher in the
US at the Children's Hospital ofPhiladelphia and he has done
research on mitochondria andmitochondrial genetics.
So to back up a little bit, asI alluded to, the mitochondria

(16:37):
are these tiny little organellesand they're once bacteria and
they live inside all your cellsand what they do is they
transform energy.
So they take inputs in the formof electrons from food
substrates, of what you'reeating, and they take other
inputs like light and theyrespond to things like
temperature and in response tothat they make ATP.

(17:01):
But they also make energy theymake.
ATP, but they also make energy.
When they're operating properlythe cell does its job properly,
so the heart cell can contractefficiently.
The cells in the pancreas canmake insulin properly.
The gut cells in the gut liningcan make the mucins properly to
maintain a really healthy gutbarrier.

(17:23):
The neurons can fire off theirsignals properly, so everything
works.
But when the mitochondria stopworking and it's really a
gradient, it's like a brownoutthen the cell can't do its job
properly, and when the cellcan't do its job the heart stops
pumping properly.
The gut lining can't make areally solid mucus barrier, so

(17:48):
bacteria start contacting it andperhaps something like Crohn's
or IBD can result.
So the priority when it comesto disease and chronic disease
is to make sure thosemitochondria of ours are healthy
, and disease today isoverwhelmingly a result of this
mitochondrial inefficiency orlack of a mitochondrial being

(18:11):
healthy.
And that was the innovation ofDr Wallace's work, which is only
a tiny fraction.
Probably less than 10% or evenless than 5% of diseases are
related to nuclear geneticproblems.
So, meaning that mitochondrialproblems, and therefore
environmental choices, are themost important thing for whether

(18:32):
we get sick or not.
And another way of thinkingabout this is what I tell my
patients is genetics loads thegun, but your environment and
your lifestyle pulls the triggerand determines whether or not
you're going to get sick.
So that's empowering, becauseit means that, no matter what
your family history is, if youmake the right choices with

(18:52):
respect to the light you see,with respect to the food you eat
, with respect to where you liveand the water you drink, then
you can move the needle.
It's not a foregone conclusionthat you're going to get
diabetes, that you're going toget heart disease.
So that was the innovation ofDr Wallace and that's how I
think about disease, because weneed to keep these mitochondria

(19:16):
happy, and the things that makemitochondria unhappy are related
to innovations in technology inour modern environment, whether
they are indoor artificiallighting, whether they're
non-native electromagneticfields being emitted by devices
of convenience like smartphonesor Wi-Fi routers, whether it's
food of convenience which isrefined grains that have

(19:38):
contaminated with glyphosateresidue or coconuts shipped in
from the equator down in Tassieand Melbourne.
So all these environmentalchoices are going to influence
whether or not our mitochondriaare happy and therefore how sick
or not we get.
So the way that sunlight reallyplugs into this story is that
it regulates the circadianrhythm, which is the body's

(20:04):
response to the light-dark cycle.
The light-dark cycle which iswhat all life on earth evolved
over these billion years.
And if we respect it then themitochondrial colony recovers
overnight.
And it recovers overnightbecause this very important
hormone called melatonin getsmade in the brain, in the pineal

(20:26):
gland, but it only gets made ifthere's no light in our
environment.
The lost sunlight alsostimulates this melatonin
hormone on site in themitochondria during the day, in
response to near-infrared lightwhich gets reflected from the
greenery around us, becausenatural sunlight is so rich in
near-infrared photons.

(20:47):
So the role of mitochondria inoptimal health, of sunlight in
optimal health, is to provide uswith this yin and yang
situation that if we respect webecome optimally healthy and if
we disrespect we get sick.
So another way to think aboutthe yin and yang is the light
and the dark is perfectlybalanced and that reflects the

(21:10):
equal importance of both fullspectrum sunlight during the day
and complete darkness or justmoonlight during the night.
So we can mess with ourcircadian health in a couple of
ways.
One, if we get inadequatefull-spectrum sunlight during
the day and or if we get toomuch artificial light at night.

(21:33):
So you can be doing sure youlight outside during the day,
but if you also have yournighttime lit up with computer
monitors and overhead LEDlighting, then you're not going
to make melatonin, you're notgoing to allow that mitochondria
to repair themselves properly.
And similarly, if you go tosleep on time you don't have a

(21:54):
lot of artificial light butyou're indoors all day, you're
going to become vitamin Ddeficient, you're going to
become near infrared lightdeficient and again, you're not
going to make those reallyimportant hormones and photo
products so at a high level.
That is how I think aboutsunlight and its effect on
disease.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, so it's really at the centre for everything,
for disease.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
It is.
I think it's the foundationalapproach and again it does sound
controversial, but maybe thisis another way of thinking about
it.
The cell's response to lightpredated the development, the
evolution of a digestive system.
So cells were responding tosunlight and the absence of

(22:36):
light with the non-visualphotoreceptor system, with
ancestral circadian rhythmsprior to the formation of our
food system, our digestivesystem.
Again, not to say that diet isunimportant it absolutely is
important and proportionallybecomes more important if we
aren't able to control thoselight aspects in our health.

(22:56):
And that's why I think a lot ofpeople might have to maintain a
strict carnivore diet and theyfall off the wagon if they
deviate even slightly, becauseperhaps they haven't addressed
their circadian rhythm and theyin-yang of night, of daytime
sunlight and nighttime darknessas well as they possibly could.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, so in terms of health, if we look at it from
like, if we have dominoes liningup, light would be like one of
the first dominoes, right?

Speaker 2 (23:21):
I think so, yeah, and so once you get that in place
and your circadian rhythm inplace and all of that, it's like
you know it hits everythingelse.
Yeah, and and not to say thatyou can't address them both at
the same time, and but it's just, it becomes, uh.
I think it's it's helpful tojust try and make these basic
light habits, uh, an essentialpart of your day and make that a

(23:43):
routine, and if you have totravel and you eat, you know,
some food that you otherwisewouldn't have at least if you
get out and get your lightsignals right, you're going to
be doing better for your health.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And do you think because I'mjust like thinking about this
now in terms of growing up inAustralia slip, slop, slap, like
protecting us from the sun,stay out of the UV.
You have to put a hat on, youhave to put sunscreen on, you
have to get in the shade Do youthink that that's actually
contributing to a lot of diseasein Australia that we have now?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I think it is, and that in itself is a
controversial statement.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
I just free-balled that.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, and I'll break it down for everyone.
So what we've learnt over thepast probably 10 years
particularly so is that, from avariety of different angles is
that people who get moresunlight live longer.
There were two pivotal studiesthat really displayed this.
One of them was in.

(24:38):
The first one was in Sweden,and they took a cohort of about
25,000 Swedish women in Swedenand they asked them questions
about their sunlight exposure.
So they asked them do yousunbathe in summer, do you
sunbathe in winter, do you usetanning beds, and do you travel
overseas to tan holidays,sunbathing holidays and they

(25:01):
followed them up over twodecades, two and a half decades
sunbathing holidays, and theyfollowed them up over two
decades, two and a half decades.
And what they did is they lookedat how quickly people were
dying and their hypothesisbecause it was called the
melanoma in southern Swedenstudy was that the women that
sunbathed the most, that went tothe tanning salons the most,
would get more melanoma and diemore frequently.

(25:22):
So they were actually correct onthe first part, but not on the
second.
What they found was that thewomen who got the most sun
exposure, they actually died theleast.
Their risk of death ofall-cause mortality was the
lowest and there was a doseresponse, meaning the women who
got an intermediate amount ofsun exposure died a little bit
more often and those thatavoided the sun had the greatest

(25:46):
risk of death.
And they had a way ofquantifying this in a very
interesting way, because theyalso discussed smoking habits
and the analysis of the datashowed that the women who
avoided the sun and didn't smokeso had the same mortality as
those that got in the sun anddidn't smoke, so had the same

(26:07):
mortality as those that got inthe sun and smoked.
So that implied, or itdemonstrated, that smoking was a
risk factor.
Sun avoidance was a risk factorfor all-cause death on par with
smoking in this Swedish cohortRight.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Okay continue.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So the question there and the common and again sorry
to make a bit more clear thereasons why they found that
people were living longer wasbecause they were dying less of
the really big killers insociety.
The biggest killers in societyare heart disease and stroke.
Yeah, so these are vascularproblems, these are problems of

(26:43):
blood clotting and they killmore people, no matter what
country in the world, than skincancers.
And if you plot death by yearsof potential life loss, that's
one of the metrics we use inepidemiology to quantify the
effect of a disease on societyYears of potential life loss.

(27:03):
So it's a function of how oldsomeone is when they die and how
prevalent that disease is inthe population.
And if you look at the curvefor Australia, the conditions
that are responsible for themost life lost are, by a long
way, ischemic heart disease,heart attack, and then you go
down.

(27:24):
You've got, you know, you'vegot stroke, cerebrovascular, not
necessarily in this order, butroughly.
You've got stroke.
You've got, you know,neurodegenerative diseases like
dementias.
You've got lung cancers.
You've got breast, coloncancers, you've got prostate
cancers, and I'm excludingtraffic accidents and traumatic

(27:45):
illness because that's notrelevant.
But all the way down atsomething like number 13 is skin
cancers, including malignantmelanoma.
So what I'm trying to convey isthat there's an order of
concern that we should have on apopulation level of what
diseases are killing people,population level of what

(28:11):
diseases are killing people andif we can change our lifestyles
to prevent certain deaths.
Then we should be looking atthe biggest pictures and the
biggest fish to address.
And what Peli Lindquist and histeam found in Sweden, and that
was later backed up by adermatologist called Richard
Weller in a UK analysis, wasthat sunlight exposure and the
more people got, the less theywere dying of these bigger

(28:31):
ticker causes.
So it wasn't to say that skincancer wasn't a problem.
Like I mentioned, the womenthat got more sunlight in the
Sweden study did get moremelanoma, but they were
protected from death, even inthe ones that get more melanoma.
But they were protected fromdeath even in the ones that got
the melanoma, and the mortalityof the women who got skin

(28:53):
cancers was significantly lowerin the ones that got more
sunlight.
So, even conditional upongetting skin cancer, you were
still protected if you got moresunlight exposure compared to if
you avoided sunlight exposure.
Interesting, if you got moresunlight exposure compared to if
you avoided sunlight exposure.
Interesting.
So there's more nuance here,and a common rebuttal to this is
like okay, this is a Europeancohort, this isn't

(29:14):
representative of an Australianpopulation.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
And the conditions are different.
In Sweden their maximumultraviolet light index is a six
.
Uv index explains the magnitudeof UV light that's present.
So in the middle of summer itonly gets up to a six and it's
there for about 10 days a year.
Half the year there's no UVBlight at all.
So you know the comment therebuttal might be this is a

(29:43):
unique population.
Perhaps it's not applicable tous in Australia.
Well, when I talked toProfessor Weller he said that
you guys in Australia you dohave less all-cause mortality
compared to England at the highlatitude with a similar

(30:03):
population of Anglo-Saxon, youknow, northern Atlantic origin.
So I think it holds, I thinkit's relevant for Australians.
But it adds an extra layer ofnuance of us in Australia, which
is we have UV indexes that hit13.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
We have.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
UV indexes up here in Queensland and Northern New
South Wales that don't fallbelow, you know, four, five all
year round.
So the magnitude of ultravioletlight exposure is so much
greater here in Australia andthat needs to be taken into
account in advice about sunexposure.

(30:39):
It doesn't mean we need toavoid it, but we just need to be
smart and we need to titrateour UV exposure to our skin type
and if you're paler, then youjust need to time your.
And we need to titrate our UVexposure to our skin type and if
you're paler, then you justneed to time your exposure in a
more smart way.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
How does UV tie into it then?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
So ultraviolet light is this very small part of the
solar spectrum, but it plays areally essential role.
So ultraviolet light, changesin the environment and increase
in ultraviolet light was thoughtto trigger one of the
developments of complex life.
So the Cambrian explosion Ithink it was about 300, 600,

(31:16):
maybe 600 million years ago wasthought to be triggered by an
increase in amount of thisreally high energy photons into
the environment, and lifeevolved to make use of this
energy.
So ultraviolet light is adouble-edged sword because it
both provides energy to helpbiochemical reactions that are

(31:39):
key to life happen.
The most common one that peoplewill know about is the
conversion of cholesterol intovitamin D.
One that people will know aboutis the conversion of
cholesterol into vitamin D.
We need a photon of, or photonsof, ultraviolet B light to hit
that cholesterol ring, to breakit open, to therefore catalyze
the production of vitamin D.
But the UV light also candamage the DNA and it is

(32:04):
mutagenic because it is so highenergy.
So, interestingly, the body hasevolved amazing a number of
methods to deal with thisdouble-edged sword that is
ultraviolet light.
So it's both necessary, but wealso need to uh mitigate its,
its damaging effects in certainways.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
We can talk about those, those ways, if you, if
you, yeah, yeah because I feellike there's a lot of there is
nuance to it, right, which wewere speaking about before we
started recording, because onone hand, you have the
centralized system that's likeuv is so bad and on the other
hand, you have the decentralizedsystem and some people like uv,
there's nothing bad.
So I feel like you're feeling,you're sitting into this middle
part.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, and I'll explain about it a little bit.
So UVB light is the mosthigh-energy light that
essentially we're exposed tohere on Earth and it penetrates
through the atmosphere when thesun angle is at a certain degree
in the sky.
That's why, if you're living ina low latitude in Tassie or up
in Sweden, the sun angle neverclimbs above a certain level, so

(33:09):
you never get UVB light atcertain parts of the year.
I didn't know that that's socool.
So I mean talking to anastrophysicist.
He is suggesting that there'sways that ultraviolet B can
scatter and be present at highlatitudes in winter, but that's
a different discussion.
Scatter and be present at highlatitudes in winter, but that's
a different discussion.

(33:29):
So what that basically means isthat it's only there for part
of the time, but it's dependingon the time of day and the
season.
So what happens when ultravioletlight strikes the skin?
Well, ultraviolet B light, itgets absorbed, and it gets
absorbed by DNA itself.
Dna actually is a chromophorefor ultraviolet light.
So again pointing to if it wereall bad, why has nature been

(33:53):
programmed us to essentiallyabsorb it?
But UVB light can cause whatare called CPDs or
psychobutampyridine dimers.
Anyway, they cause defects inthe DNA UVA light, which is a
more longer form of UV light andthat helps us to relax the

(34:14):
blood vessels and keep all bloodflow occurring properly.
That can cause DNA damage towhat we call oxidative stress.
But and this is the big but,and this is where what I call
the half-truth of the slip slop,slap son of oil's message stops
.
They get that right, but theydon't tell you that what the

(34:35):
skin has evolved is all thesemechanisms to repair the DNA
damage done by the ultraviolet Blight, and one of those is the
vitamin D system.
So when UVB strikes the skin,it makes vitamin D.
Vitamin D becomes activated ina range of steps, but what it
does is it upregulates enzymesthat chop out the defects in DNA

(34:57):
Cool.
It repairs the DNA defectsbased on this system.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
So it's like I'm going to damage your DNA, but
here's the way to fix it.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Exactly Mother Nature's built in a program to
fix the damage that theultraviolet B light's done.
Turns out that if you continueto get UVB light exposure, then
you can't overdose on vitamin D,because the body makes a bunch
of these other cousins ofvitamin D.
They're called secosteroids.
I think of them, these othercousins of vitamin D, they're
called secosteroids.

(35:27):
I think of them as chemicalcousins of vitamin D.
They have very similar effects.
So they increase what we callDNA repair, basic excision
repair.
They reduce proliferation andthey regulate proliferation of
the skin cells so they don'tstart replicating out of control
like as a cancer of the skincells, so they don't start

(35:48):
replicating out of control likeas a cancer.
They reduce oxidative stressand they reduce essentially
tumor growth because theyupregulate these compounds, a
really key one called P53, whichis known as the guardian of the
genome.
So these vitamin D and itsactive forms and its chemical
cousins are one of the ways thatthe body has evolved to deal
with the oxidative stress andthe DNA damage that ultraviolet

(36:12):
light has.
So what does that mean?
It means that if you're gettingsunlight in an ancestrally
appropriate way, by starting inthe morning gradually building
up, then what you're going to bedoing is you're going to be
preparing the skin, building up.
Then what you're going to bedoing is you're going to be
preparing the skin You're goingto be generating melanin, and
melanin is one of the body'smost powerful antioxidants.

(36:32):
So I just told you that UVAlight induces oxidative stress
and can damage DNA.
Well, if you have melaninbecause you've been slowly
building up your exposure in asmart and consistent way, then
this melanin is going to helpdeal with the oxidative stress
that's been caused by this UVlight.
How else can you dampenoxidative stress down?

(36:55):
Well, when you're walkingbarefoot on the ground, your
body is uptaking electrons.
That grounding effect alsoreduces oxidative stress.
Neuron for red light, which is,by proportion, more than 50% of
the photons, induces melatoninin the mitochondria again, which
reduces oxidative stress.

(37:16):
So these are all the differentways and that's only scratching
the surface of the mechanisms bywhich, if we get ultraviolet
light in an ancestrallyappropriate way in the context
of full-spectrum sunlight, thenMother Nature's got our back.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, it's almost like she designed this for this
purpose.
That's so cool.
And then have you.
I'm sure you have read I'mreading at the moment the
Invisible Rainbow, and it speaksall about electricity and the
introduction of that and howthat's actually really
contributed to the disease.
And I guess that that would tieinto this story as well with,
like, non-native EMFs andelectricity.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, it's fascinating and to context, that
, based on what we've beentalking about, life evolved this
really narrow spectrum ofelectromagnetic radiation.
So, not to get too technical,but electromagnetic radiation is
on this scale and the photons,based on their wavelength and

(38:13):
their frequency, have differentproperties.
So we talked about UV light.
That's on the really short endof the spectrum.
We can't even see it.
And then we're in this reallynarrow range between around 400
and 700 nanometers which isvisible light, and then if we go
further than that, then we'rein the infrared and then, if we

(38:34):
keep going further beyond that,we get into radio frequencies
and other kinds of frequencies.
So what humans have done is thatwe have developed technologies
like like radio, like bluetooth,like wi-fi, cellular
communication technologies thatmake use of a range of

(38:55):
electromagnetic frequencies thatlife and humans never evolved
exposure to yeah, so it's anovel thing in our environment
only for the past 100, past 100years.
Late 1800s is when electricitywas invented.
So, the question and the pointthat Furstenberg makes in the
Invisible Rainbow is that if ourmitochondrial colony have

(39:18):
evolved with a really strictamount of certain wavelengths,
including visible light,including near infrared,
including the human resonance,including some very long
wavelengths, ultra-low frequencywavelengths, yet suddenly we're
introducing all these novelsources, then what is that
having on our mitochondrialcolony?

(39:39):
And if we understand thatthere's quantum biological
processes at play in themitochondria to help make up
energy in the way that we werediscussing earlier, they're
going to be so sensitive to eventiny perturbations in that EMF
exposure that that's going toaffect the way that they produce
energy and therefore influencedisease.
Now it's not an area of activeresearch.

(40:02):
It's very much a niche,decentralized area of research.
But I and others I mean TristanScott is a really great
spokesman for the effect of EMFon health.
I think it's incrediblyunder-emphasized for how
significant it is.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, because I'm reading this and I'm like
holy fuck, like it makes me wantto just yeet my phone into the
ocean and never look at it again.
Do you see it a lot, or like Iguess you would see it a lot
with your patients again?
Do you see it a lot, or like Iguess you would see it a lot
with your patients, but do youspeak to them a lot?

Speaker 2 (40:29):
And there are a lot of people like well, this is
actually affecting my health alot more than I realize, because
it's so ubiquitous and sodifficult to get away from.
It's hard for certain people,for a lot of people to, unless
they're by a very diligentprocess of exclusion, attribute
their symptoms to that.
Yeah, but I encourage people toavoid EMF exposure close to the

(40:52):
body as part of a holisticprotocol.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
And you know that might involve turning off your
Wi-Fi at night.
It might involve not sittingnext to the Wi-Fi router during
a workday.
It might involve unplugging theplugs near the power cord where
your baby's cot is.
You know all these things.
It's more of a protocol that Ithink is based on good enough

(41:21):
science, like we don't need ahigh onus of research to know
that it's something that weshould be doing.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's blowing my mind and I think
that this is a bit of like arabbit hole as well.
When you start and you get ontoJack Cruz this is how it
happened to me I'm like I gotsent his podcast with Rick Rubin
and Huberman and I waslistening to it and I was like
this guy's a jerk.
I love him so much because hejust absolutely schools Huberman
is a jerk.
I love him so much because hejust absolutely schools Huberman
.
And then it's like okay, nowI'm looking into Jack Cruz's

(41:51):
work, now I'm understandingmitochondria, now I'm
understanding like the sun, andit's just this fucking rabbit
hole.
Right, where did how did that?
I guess?
Where are you at in it?
Are you kind of sitting in themiddle of like okay, I want to
still learn more and I'm reallyexploring things?
Or are you you like cool, I'mgood and I want to just take it
to another level.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, it is a rabbit hole.
I think that's a great way todescribe it.
I am nowhere near the bottom ofthe rabbit hole, nowhere near,
and at the moment I've focused alot on circadian biology.
More recently, I've beentalking to some quantum
biologists Cool.
Recently I've been talking tosome quantum biologists Cool and

(42:27):
they're based in the UK, theGuy Foundation.
They're funding a lot ofquantum biological research to
really understand what is goingon in the mitochondria at the
level of electrons, photons,protons, all this kind of thing,
and they're doing some reallyexciting research and they're
getting on some verycutting-edge researchers people

(42:50):
like Nick Lane, people likeMichael Levin who's doing work
with bioelectricity so they'reat the cutting edge of health.
I think this is the cuttingedge of health and biology and
they came to this topic becausethey were investigating.
They did work in cannabinoidsand GW Pharmaceuticals, which is

(43:13):
Professor Jeffrey Guy's company, was investigating how they
were the first to bring apharmaceutical-grade cannabinoid
onto the pharmaceutical marketto treat intractable epilepsy.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Sorry for those who do not know what that is.
Can you just clarify?

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yeah, so for children who have really severe epilepsy
, they go into seizures almostconstantly.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
It's extremely damaging, and brain injuries
from lack of oxygen, all thiskind of thing.
So what they discovered is thatcompounds in cannabis and weed
could have a therapeutic benefit.
So what they did was isolatesome of these compounds, which
people take a lot these days.

(43:54):
They were the first more than adecade ago and released a
pharmaceutical product In thegoal or sorry.
In the process of understandingthe science, they realised that
these cannabinoid compoundswere interacting with
mitochondria Cool, and that washow they were having effects.
And they realised thatbiochemistry was inadequate to

(44:15):
explain how these processes werehappening and they needed to go
deeper.
And that's how they startedarriving at quantum biology,
because the biochemical model ofthe world wasn't enough to
explain what was reallyhappening.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, so holistic health.
I guess on this cutting edge isreally about quantum biology as
well, like it's all quiteconnected.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
It is absolutely connected but thankfully the
practical day-to-day which has aquantum biological explanation
doesn't need to be technical.
Yeah, and people simply justdoing things that I and others
talk about, like watching thesunrise, like getting a barefoot
on the ground, like eatinglocal foods.

(45:00):
They do have quantum biologicalexplanations.
Again, we as scientists arejust starting to explain, but
it's not necessary in order toimplement them.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, yeah, so you don't actually need to
understand the quantum mechanicsbehind grounding to get the
benefits, Exactly.
Yeah, I love that.
Can you actually because youmentioned briefly when we
touched on grounding, or likegetting your bare feet on the
earth electrons?

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, I mean electricity is a passage of of
electrons, like when you flickyour switch.
Yeah, in in your house thecopper wire is is conductive of
electrons and they they carriesa charge and that's how you're
able to operate electrolyteappliances.
The the body is operating in ina similar way we.
There's a, a DC electriccurrent that runs the body and

(45:49):
the proteins in the body.
They're bathed in water andthat changes the way that they
conduct electricity and thewhole function of the body is
because we have a bioelectricfoundation.
So the corollary or the Nextpoint of that is we can do

(46:14):
things that respect andunderstand that that is the case
From a clinical point of view.
Doctors know that when they doan ECG electrocardiogram, if
someone comes into the emergencydepartment with chest pain, we
take a measurement, we measurethe change in electrical
potential of the heart and weactually graph it and we use it

(46:34):
for diagnosis.
Neurologists, if people have aseizure, they'll do an EEG, an
electroencephalogram, and lookat the waveform of the
electrical potential that thebrain is doing.
And clinically we know thatthat's happening, but we as
doctors haven't taken the nextstep to understand what those

(46:54):
implications are for health anddisease.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, Isn't that interesting?
Because I feel like it's almostlike I don't know if I want to
say this, let me word itproperly but it's almost like
the medical industry is outdatedin a way, and what people are
getting taught in universitiesand things are not actually at
the cutting edge of what'sactually happening and what's
helping people, even though it'snot really new at the same time
, because we're livingancestrally Does that make sense

(47:18):
?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
It does and the emphasis is misguided.
I think that maybe is the mostbasic way for people to
understand.
Is that the emphasis of amainstream, centralized medicine
.
Okay, if you come in with asubdural hemorrhage because
someone fell over and hit theirhead, absolutely you get rushed

(47:39):
to the operating theatre and youhave a part of your skull
removed and you decompress thebrain and that's extremely
useful and extremely effective.
Other forms of interventions,people who are right at that
dying point of view, traumasurgery Like broken bones,

(48:00):
orthopedics and look some of thelate, more recently the
immunotherapies for melanoma,like they've been really
effective.
So, antibiotic therapy insevere sepsis sure, these are
not degrading the value andbenefit.
I see it every day, but from apreventative health point of

(48:20):
view the emphasis simply isn'tthere.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And I was thinking about this earlier, and it's
really the doctors aren't.
We don't have, we're not beingtaught a good model of what
normal, optimal health is.
People are so sick, and peopleare so metabolically sick that
collectively they don'tunderstand what normal was and

(48:46):
therefore they're really unableto guide people back to that.
And you can't get there throughmedications.
You need to get there throughthese optimal lifestyle choices.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Well, isn't it that, like all the normal blood ranges
and all the things are basedoff averages, not actually
healthy people, so it's like theaverage of whatever is in your
area yeah, so I mean, thesereference ranges for a bunch of
blood tests can be determined byan unhealthy population?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
yeah, so if you, if you measure the average of an
unhealthy population, then, yeah, you're going to get a wrong
yardstick, by which?
You're measuring what isoptimal.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
So it's like you don't actuallywant to be normal, right,
because normal is unhealthy atthis day and age.
So you're a little eyes lightup, you're like, yes, do you see
that a lot?

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah, I mean there's a whole bunch of tests that are
done that normal is differentfrom optimal Serum.
Vitamin D is a test that yourdoctor can do and it measures
for a storage form of vitamin D,and researchers have been
looking more into this becausethey realized that a vitamin D

(49:52):
level is not only important forthe absorption of calcium and
therefore bone health, butvitamin D is touching all other
aspects of health.
It's touching, most importantlyprobably, immunity, and immune
cell function is going todetermine one if you can get rid
of infectious diseases likepathogens effectively like

(50:14):
viruses.
Infectious diseases likepathogens effectively like
viruses too, if you're going toto a certain degree, because
it's the innate and the adaptiveimmune system, but to a certain
degree, how amped up your bodyis with respect to autoimmune
disease.
And thirdly, it will alsoinfluence, via vitamin D and
non-vitamin D pathways, how wellyour immune cells recognize

(50:34):
cancerous premalignant cells andkill them.
So what that essentially meansis that if you have a robust
vitamin D level, it's actually aproxy for your sunlight
exposure and it's a rough ideaabout how well, potentially your
bioelectric battery has beencharged up by natural sunlight.

(50:57):
The relevance, I guess perhapsfor you with suffering from
Crohn's disease is thatinflammatory bowel diseases and
celiac disease, and alsoirritable bowel syndrome.
The spectrum of gut symptomsshow association with low
vitamin D, Interesting Meaningthat people with those diseases
are more likely.
Association with low vitamin.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
D Interesting.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Meaning that people with those diseases are more
likely to have low vitamin Dcompared to people without those
diseases, and that doesn'tnecessarily mean that taking the
pill will help their condition.
The evidence is a bit mixed.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
But what it tells me from a decentralized medical
point of view is that thosepeople with gut diseases have
not been in the sun, they've gota sunlight deficiency.
We can also look at it onmultiple other levels.
So the gut is loaded withvitamin D receptors and it's an
incredibly dense part of thebody that has immune cells.

(51:52):
So when you don't have enoughnatural sunlight exposure,
you're not making vitamin d fromultraviolet b light, then
perhaps your gut immune cellsmight be hyperactive and crohn's
disease and for the listenersum ulcerative colitis, these
inflammatory bowel diseases.
They're fundamentally a problemof of the gut lining and the

(52:13):
barrier function of these cellsin the colon.
And how it works is that in themiddle you've got all the poo
and the bacteria and the foodbreakdown products and then you
have a mucus layer.
The mucus layer has to bemaintained by the intestinal
epithelial cells in the colonand the small intestine

(52:33):
throughout the wholegastrointestinal tract.
So, as we alluded to earlier,if they're healthy, then they're
going to make those mucusglycoproteins in a really
effective way so that your gutbarrier is going to be rock
solid and you're not going toget contact of the gut barrier
from the bacteria In Crohn'sdisease and ulcerative colitis.

(52:54):
That process breaks down in awhole number of different ways
and you get these patchy areas.
It's like a broken wall.
You know, if you see photos ofthe Great Wall of China where
some parts of it are broken anddestroyed, that's what happens
in Crohn's and ulcerativecolitis.
What we can do is, when weoptimize our vitamin D level but

(53:15):
we're optimizing our sunlightexposure, then we are helping
build that wall back up andensure that the gut cells are
operating properly.
And it's also about thecircadian rhythm, because
circadian function dictates thehealth and the turnover of your
gut cells.
So these are supposed toessentially shed and get
replaced every 24 to 48 hours.

(53:37):
But to do that properly theyneed to have a regulated
circadian rhythm.
The function and the barrier towhich, the degree to which they
stick together is alsodependent on having a dialed in
circadian rhythm.
So if you are partying till 1am, if you have circadian
disrupted, then by definitionyour gut cells aren't going to

(53:58):
be operating properly and you'regoing to get some degree of of
intestinal barrier dysfunction.
Whether that manifests as acneor as crohn's disease again
depends on on the on theindividual.
But, um, improving or keeping areally robust vitamin D level
by exposing, ideally, theabdomen to natural sunlight and

(54:20):
UVB containing sunlight, I thinkthat's one of the key things
that anyone with a gut condition, whether it's irritable bowel
syndrome or Crohn's andulcerative colitis, needs to be
doing.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Yeah, yeah.
When you just said the partyand the circadian disruption
before I was diagnosed withCrohn's, I was like such a big
party animal, Like I was upuntil like probably like three,
4am, like on the bags on thealcohol.
And now I think about it I'mlike, yeah, no fucking wonder.
Like no wonder you got Crohn'sdisease or no wonder something
happened, Cause I was diagnosedwith celiac disease maybe 10

(54:52):
years before that.
And now I'm like, oh, I wonderif it was like misdiagnosed
Crohn's or how it developed,because apparently you can't
have both.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Well, I mean, it sounds like a canary in the coal
mine for just gut immune systemdysfunction.
And, as you said, you werepartying till 3am.
And then what do people eat at3am after a night out?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Maccas.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
You go to McDonald's, you go to the kebab store, you
get the fries that are deepfried in canola oil, all those
really highly oxidative, youknow, breakdown products of
linoleic acid in the seed oils.
Perhaps you're having the shakeor the other processed foods
with these emulsifiers that havealso been shown to impact
negatively the gut function,create this dysbiosis or bad

(55:34):
bacteria.
So it's all these insultsadding together that lead to
people being diagnosed withinflammatory bowel disease,
which was a condition that wasbasically unheard of, you know,
in pre-industrial times andpre-modern times.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, yeah, which is what.
I don't know who the author is.
But coming back to theInvisible Rainbow, how he speaks
about that, like anxiety,diabetes, all of that started
around the electrical revolution, and that's the same as like
gut issues and all thesediseases.
Right, it's because of ourlifestyle changing and now I
don't know if I'm going to wearthis right, but like our system
hasn't evolved to our modernlife, does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (56:10):
Yeah, and it won't because the changes have
outpaced any evolutionarytimescale that it possibly can.
So, to tie this back intoquantum biology.
The Guy Foundation have beendoing a report on space, and
what they have been studying isthe human changes that occur in
space.
And, just to cut a long storyshort, there's a list of

(56:34):
problems by existing in thespace environment A lack of
magnetic field, lack of gravity,lack of near-infrared light,
circadian rhythm disruption andthey all combine to make space
incredibly inhospitable tohumans, so much so that these
really fit people, theseastronauts, are coming back

(56:55):
insulin resistant and they'rebasically saying that this is
space travel, and existing inthe space station is what's
called an accelerated agingphenotype, meaning that you're
going to prematurely age if youspend time in space.
It's a really elegant proof ofwhat happens when we get all the
environmental inputs wrong.
And what you're talking aboutand Arthur Furstenberg talked

(57:15):
about in his book the InvisibleRainbow, is we can essentially
mimic some of those spaceenvironments on Earth when we
sit next to our Wi-Fi router,when we are up till 3am partying
or gaming or whatever elsepeople are doing, and it's
similarly maybe not as extremeas inhospitable to our
mitochondrial colony, but in adifferent way it's harmful.

(57:38):
So, tying this back into guthealth and Crohn's particularly,
I think the message for peoplewith gut problems is that you
can start with circadian biology.
You can start by gettingsunlight on your abdomen,
building a tan in that area.
It sounds so unorthodox andit's heresy to the

(57:59):
gastroenterology specialty.
Yeah, like we talked off camera.
They're in disbelief or justthey'll laugh at you.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, my gastroenterologist literally
laughed at me, Even when I saidI've been doing breath work.
He was like righto.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
And it's because their paradigm doesn't include
this frame of thought.
It's so foreign to theirparadigm, which exclusively
relies on drug therapy, that itmight as well be Chinese to them
, it's Greek to them, it doesn'tmake sense to them, but it
works.
And it works when, especiallyand if people are interested,

(58:33):
they can understand thecircadian biology to understand
it.
But a lot don't hand.
Build up your natural vitamin Dlevel through UVB light

(58:54):
exposure and exclude some ofthese processed food products
and plants as well in theinitial healing phase, because
when your gut barrier is socompromised, you can't tolerate
wheat, you can't toleratevegetables without provoking
inflammation.
So what you're doing and wetalked about your vitamin D

(59:16):
level and dietary practicesthey're obviously working for
you because you've been inremission for three years.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
And you're one of many.
Yeah, it's not an uncommonstory to hear of people
discarding, you know not fillingtheir biologic scripts.
You know no longer needing theinjection of their
immunomodulator because, theydon't have their symptoms
anymore and, like I said, it'sheresy to the centralized
specialists, but it's workingand you're proof of that.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Yeah, and I think that's part of me sharing my
story as well, because it tookme so long to share it because I
was like, oh no, but what if itdidn't actually work?
And what if I've just made itup in my head, right?
But there are so many peopleout there that are healing
through getting sunlightexposure, grounding, turning off
their wifi, carnivore diets orjust removing process through
stopping alcohol.
All of these things add up,it's like that death by a

(01:00:03):
thousand cuts, where it's likeit's not just going to be a
little bit of daily sun, it'slike you have to hit all the
different boxes and it's thatoverall health and I guess
that's like holistic in a way,absolutely, and it's consistency
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
And whatever condition you're trying to
improve, you're always going tosee the benefits with
consistency, and how much effortpeople put into this lifestyle
change is always going to bedictated by how much their
current situation sucks.
Yeah, and that's what I explainto people as patients.
I'm not there to tell anyonewhat to do.
I just share what works forother people, what I know, to

(01:00:42):
have an evidence base and givepeople an option.
I don't judge them if they wantto take medications.
But I say that if you do wantto take this option, then be
consistent.
Do a little bit every day.
Stack all the lifestyle changeson top of each other and you
will heal, because you'reputting your body, you're
putting your cells, you'reputting your mitochondria back

(01:01:04):
into the ancestral evolutionenvironment that they
essentially evolved, thatthey're expecting, and health is
simply a natural byproduct ofcorrecting those environmental
inputs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Yeah, I love what you said, though, because I feel
like I get asked all the timelike how do you just eat meat,
isn't it boring?
It's like if you knew what wason the other side of this.
Like I had like golf full sizeabscesses on my body.
I was told I would never swimin the ocean again because I had
like tubes coming out of mybody.
So, yeah, I'm going to eatsteak every day.
Like you have no idea what's onthe other side of it, and I

(01:01:38):
think having something to comefrom and understanding how much
life can suck and how good itgets to be through all these
lifestyle changes, like you justdon't understand it until
you've been through it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Yeah, and it's an individual value decision that
people make.
Yeah, I've seen people you knowwith with ibd and I'll take the
prednisolone, thanks, becausethey like eating the comfort
foods.
Yeah, and and, like I said, I'mnot there to judge them, I
don't know what's happened intheir life, but, um, it's the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
it's an individual position, so yeah each to their
own yeah, coming to becausewe've dropped in a few times
Regenerate Can you tell us moreabout Regenerate Summit?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
So Regenerate is a health summit that I founded
with good friend Simon Lewis ofhow To Carnival, provide
education and information aboutthese health practices and
lifestyle-based health practicesto people in a way that's

(01:02:41):
direct, and it came from apersonal opinion and through
personal experience of perhapsdiscussing this with other
doctors or clinicians and reallyhitting a brick wall, that it's
a more useful use of time topromote a bottom-up diffusion of
these ideas rather than atop-down, and I think now that

(01:03:04):
the top-down will change afterenough people like you, enough
patients say to theirgastroenterologist I didn't need
any of these expensive fancydrugs because I got X, Y and Z
correct.
And if enough people do thatwith their different conditions,
then we'll get changed.
But essentially, regeneratebrings together speakers on

(01:03:25):
these health topics.
So in our upcoming summit,which is on March next weekend
March 22nd in Sydney and March23rd in Melbourne We've got
Natalie West, who's a carnivorepsychotherapist a good friend of
yours, I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yes, and jump back a few episodes.
It's one of the first episodesand you'll see Dr Natalie West
in there if you want to listento her ep.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
We've got Gary Fetke.
Dr Gary Fetke speaking inMelbourne and he's an orthopedic
surgeon who is chopping offlimbs of diabetic patients and
then realised, or thought, therehad to be a better way and he
started using low-carb diets toamazing effect.
And his story is veryinteresting because he got the
establishment nutritionestablishment offside and

(01:04:10):
actually was persecuted througha medical board and it turned
out that food companies werebehind this attack on him.
He subsequently got exoneratedand has really paved the way for
doctors like me and dr anthonychafee, who I'm who's also
speaking, to discuss dietwithout fear of uh, you know the
same, but he's a veryinteresting guy and his wife,

(01:04:31):
belinda, who's's speaking inSydney.
She did the deep dive into thisI guess you could say shadow
attack on her husband andrevealed the extent to which the
Seventh-day Adventist churchand religious ideology and food
companies that they'reaffiliated with was attacking

(01:04:52):
her husband.
So she's going to be speaking.
That's very, very interesting.
That sounds so interesting.
And then we have Dr AnthonyChaffee, who many of you will
know as one of the realstalwarts in educating about the
carnivore diet.
And we've got a regenerativefarmer, because part of this
movement, the pillars ofregenerate quantum and circadian

(01:05:12):
biology, ancestral nutritionand regenerative farming, and
the thought there is that if I,as a clinician, and others are
recommending people eat a largeamount of animal meat, then this
has to be ethical animal meat.
This has to be animal meat thatis improving the commons
through regenerativeagricultural processes and not

(01:05:35):
full of antibiotics, hormones ina feedlot.
So regenerative agriculture isa key pillar of this as well,
and we've got Rachel Ward, whois a British actress turned
regenerative farmer, who willalso be speaking, and then I'll
be speaking on a couple of thetopics that Caitlin we've
touched on today, including whatis the evidence for sunlight

(01:05:57):
exposure and cancer?
What is the nuance betweensunlight exposure and skin
cancer?
How can we get sunlight in anappropriate way to reduce our
risk of all-cause death, whichthe evidence suggests is a real
thing?
you know in a way that'ssensible for our skin type and
where we live.
So it's going to be a greatevent.
People can come to either orboth Sydney and Melbourne, and

(01:06:21):
we also run a live stream, so ifyou're in state or overseas you
can tune in as well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Yeah, cool.
I feel like if you're listeningto this, then you'll probably
be keen on it.
Like if you are interested inholistic health, you're
interested in the decentralizedway.
Come and learn from the experts.
Yeah, Thank you so much.
This has been so nice.
If people want to connect withyou a little bit more, where can
they find you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Yeah, so I have a Instagram profile,
MarkSchoolHainMD, where I postlots of content I host called
Regenerative Health Podcast,which is on YouTube.
It's on all the podcaststreaming services and also
running some retreats soregenerative health retreats
coming up in some pretty speciallocations and that's where I

(01:07:04):
walk people through the livedexperience of how to implement
optimal circadian health andcircadian biology.
So for all that information,head to my website, which is
drmaxgulhanecom.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Amazing, and you can get tickets to Regenerate
through your Instagram as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yes, yeah, follow the links in bio and Instagram if
you want to come to Regenerate.
And yeah, I'll be lookingforward to meeting you all there
.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yay, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Thank you, caitlin, really appreciate the discussion
.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Thank you so much for listening, If you love this
episode.

All Episodes

Reversing Your Chronic Illness with Sunlight & Ancestral Nutrition: Kaitlin Menere interviews Dr Max Gulhane

BYRON HINTERLAND RETREAT - Circadian Living by Regenerative Health Retreats

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Reversing Your Chronic Illness with Sunlight & Ancestral Nutrition: Kaitlin Menere interviews Dr Max Gulhane

BYRON HINTERLAND RETREAT - Circadian Living by Regenerative Health Retreats

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Reversing Your Chronic Illness with Sunlight & Ancestral Nutrition: Kaitlin Menere interviews Dr Max Gulhane

24/7 News: The Latest