October 10, 2024 • 39 mins
#065 Do you feel trapped or burnt out in your current professional role? In this episode, we hear from Caitlyn, who faced burnout and dissatisfaction in her clinical rehab role and found a refreshing passion in medical writing and consulting, particularly within LGBTQ+ health companies. Caitlyn walks us through her initial struggles, the eureka moment that came from an online writing course, and how she navigated the subsequent career transition to become a successful freelancer.
What started as a side hustle while working for a telehealth company evolved into a full-time career. In this episode, you will learn how Caitlyn started pitching clients and gradually built a successful freelance career, the financial insecurities and the mental struggles that come with freelancing, the idea of taking on part-time roles as a safety net, setting realistic timelines for business success and building supportive networks.
Caitlyn shares a wealth of insights and inspiration for anyone contemplating a career shift or already in the throes of freelancing. Whether you're feeling burnt out in your current role or simply exploring new career possibilities, this episode provides practical advice and heartfelt encouragement to help you succeed in your journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:01):
Welcome to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
Are you a rehab professionalready to transition to an
alternative career?
Hear inspiring stories fromothers just like you and learn
the best ways to bridge yourcareer gap.
This podcast has you covered.
Now here's your host, doctor ofphysical therapy and podcaster,
Tanner Welsh.
Tanner Welsch (00:21):
All right.
This episode is a businesstransition journey about a
physical therapist whotransitioned into being a
medical writer and consultant.
Lgbtq plus health companiesdevelop clinically and
(00:43):
scientifically accurateinformation and products through
clinical consulting, contentdevelopment and medical review.
She started her career inbiomedical research, but pivoted
away from academia after twoyears.
She earned her DPT in 2016 fromthe University of Colorado,
(01:08):
denver, and completed aresidency in orthopedic manual
physical therapy in 2017.
She practiced in outpatientorthopedics and pelvic health
for about four years beforestarting investing in
alternative career paths.
Welcome to the show, kaitlin.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:20):
Thanks so much for having me, Tanner.
It's been fun to be here.
Tanner Welsch (01:23):
Yeah, thanks for coming on.
And where to begin here?
Caitlyn Tivy (01:27):
Yeah, there's a lot.
Tanner Welsch (01:29):
There is a lot right.
It's quite a journey.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:32):
Totally yeah, I'm happy to talk about it.
Tanner Welsch (01:35):
Let's start off with earlier, in the beginning
of the career journey, where youknow you're in a traditional
patient clinical rehab role,where you're in a traditional
patient clinical rehab role, anddiscuss maybe some of the
points where you had the sensethat, or the first sense of
awareness that things weren'tquite right in your rehab career
.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:56):
Gosh.
I feel like this story is socommon to so many rehab
specialists and all disciplinesthat I talk to that it just
starts really slowly, I think,for a lot of us, because we get
our degree and we put in allthis effort to get our DPT or
our OT degree or what have you,and then we're finally there,
we've made it right, so we startworking and we're really in the
(02:16):
weeds for a while, especiallythose first few years.
You're just getting your feetunder you.
You still feel like you barelyknow what you're doing, even
though we're so educated.
But even in those early years,for some of us there's often
just something that feels alittle off.
For me, I think a lot of it washow exhausted I felt at the end
(02:37):
of every day.
I made a lot of excuses forthat for a long time I was like,
well, it's just residency.
Residency is really hard,you'll get through it.
When you're done with residencyit'll get easier.
And then I got out of residencyand started working at a
private practice back home herein Colorado and it kept
happening.
It's like, well, maybe it'sjust getting into this new
practice, maybe I'm justsettling into a new community
(03:00):
and building my caseload andit'll get better, and then, a
couple of years later, stillhappening.
Right, I'm coming home every dayand I enjoyed a lot of moments
in the day, but at the end ofevery day I just felt like a
deflated balloon, just exhausted, no matter how hard I tried to
manage my time and take breaksand all the strategies so many
(03:21):
of us use.
So I think that was one of thefirst signs for me, and I didn't
have a word for it at the time,but it was sort of my social
batteries being completelydrained by just having to be on
all day long.
There were other things too.
I mean, all of us know thestruggle of having to take
documentation home and having towork maybe some extra hours on
(03:42):
the weekend because we're tryingto pay off our loans and all
these things that add up.
But for me, the exhaustion andthat feeling of having no social
battery left for the rest of mylife was the first indicator
that maybe full-time clinicalcare is not right for me.
Tanner Welsch (03:56):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think you're right 100%.
That happens to a lot of people, that it's really like you have
this fight or flight responsethat's just on all the time,
totally, and it's completelyunhealthy.
I've had some autoimmune stuffhappen for prolonged periods of
time and it's just hey guys,this is a sign this isn't
working.
Something needs to change,right.
Caitlyn Tivy (04:18):
And it's ironic because we're educating our
patients about that too, right,especially if we work in
orthopedics.
All the pain sciences aroundfight or flight and we're
learning more abouttrauma-informed care and the
same problems right, but we'retalking to patients about it and
meanwhile we're living itourselves.
So, yeah, totally, totally feelyou there.
Tanner Welsch (04:35):
For sure.
For you, was there like aspecific moment that you
realized, man, I'm just I'm notgoing to do this clinical care
anymore, this treatment.
Or was it just you mentionedthe gradual, it all just built
up and then you realized therewas no specific moment
necessarily.
Caitlyn Tivy (04:53):
What was that like for you?
I don't know if there was onemoment, but there was definitely
a timeframe of a few monthslate 2019, early 2020, I think
where I was becoming more andmore dissatisfied and all of the
compounding things that hadbeen building up were really
coming to a head.
And in early 2020, right aroundthe time the pandemic was
breaking out.
(05:13):
But even a little before, Istarted investigating more work
related to writing and I'dalways enjoyed writing.
I'd always been a good readerand writing always came
naturally to me, and I don'teven remember how I happened
upon a course, but I found thiscourse called Breaking into
Health Writing Online and thewoman who created it was doing a
promotion and I was like allright, this is on sale, I'll
(05:35):
grab it and I'll work on this.
I started working on it inclinic during the pandemic, when
we had open slots, because myclinic never closed.
We had to keep seeing peoplebecause we're in a rural area,
so we were sort of a safety net,but our caseload was down, so
when I had breaks, I would workon this course.
Then I started doing somewriting for clients and I got
pretty lucky with pitching someearly clients that just jumped
(05:57):
on it and we're like, yeah, we'dlove to have you write some
educational content for us, forour patients.
And I think in those few monthsas I was starting to write for
clients more, I realized thetime that I was spending writing
, because it was usually earlymornings before work or
afternoons after I got home.
I didn't feel like work in thesame way that the clinic did.
(06:17):
And that those few months, Ithink, is when it started to
click like, oh, maybe there areother options out there and
maybe you aren't stuck in theclinic full time forever.
So I think it was somewhatgradual but it really coalesced
over those few months when Ireally jumped into doing more
writing.
Tanner Welsch (06:34):
For sure, would you say.
Was that the first sense ofawareness that you felt that
this could actually be alegitimate career, generate some
income to live off of path?
Caitlyn Tivy (06:45):
You know, I wish I could say yes, but I didn't
believe it.
For a long time I was like thisis just a side gig, this is for
fun and for a little extra playmoney.
You know, I was moonlighting asa writer for three years a
little over three years before Idecided to go full time for
myself, and I worked for atelehealth company during that
time.
So I was doing a lot of otherstuff, but I never thought that
(07:07):
writing and consulting and someof the work I do now could be
full-time.
That took a while.
Tanner Welsch (07:13):
Let's just slide into that, okay.
So what I'm thinking is youwere working in med tech for a
bit and then it sounds like somewriting was sprinkled in there
and then eventually it got to apoint where it was, okay, yeah,
this can be a business.
So let's start at the beginningwith the med tech stuff.
How did you land that?
Because that's a big topicright now.
A lot of people are getting meout of clinical care, getting me
(07:34):
into med tech.
So was that a full-time role?
How did you land it?
Was it a good fit?
Caitlyn Tivy (07:39):
Yeah, I started working for this telehealth
company in spring of 2021.
And it was funny because, forthe last year roughly, I had
been already doing some writingand knew that I wanted to do
something different than theclinic I was in.
But I wasn't sure what and Ithink I applied for the role
that was posted months prior andtotally forgot about it.
And then I got a phone call oneday from a recruiter from this
(08:02):
company.
It's like hey, we'd love totalk to you.
Oh great, I totally spaced thisand that interview process went
pretty quickly and I remembersitting down with my partner and
saying is this smart?
Do I do this?
I don't know, but I wentthrough, I think, three or four
rounds of interviews with themand got a decently good feeling.
So I accepted that job in Aprilor May, I think, and jumped
into that.
There's a lot of differentwords.
(08:22):
There's med tech, telehealth,health tech, all these buzzwords
right.
This company, the job I appliedfor, was a telehealth PT role.
It was still clinical in a way.
I was still going to beinterfacing with patients or, as
we call them, members, but Iwas still talking to people all
day long, essentially.
But I saw the job as a way tojust bridge out of in-person
(08:42):
clinical care.
So I jumped on it and thenduring my time there, about
halfway through the first year,I was recruited by a colleague,
another PT in the company,because this company I was
working for was an MSK focusedvery knee pain, back pain how do
we help people do essentiallyPT from their home using
technology?
But they were starting to buildtheir women's health range.
(09:04):
They wanted to branch out.
So my colleague who had beenbrought into that team reached
out to me and said hey, I knowyou do some writing on the side.
I think she'd seen it on myLinkedIn and stuff like that.
Are you interested in helpingme with a couple of side
projects for this women's healthvertical that we're building?
And I was like oh heck, yeah,that sounds great.
So that was very much byhappenstance.
(09:30):
I think I sort of helped myselfinto that role by volunteering
to be a mentor for other PTs onthe team that were starting to
see some pelvic health concernsand had no idea and they were
panicking.
You know typical orthopediclike we don't talk about the
pelvic floor, it's scary, right.
So there was a transitionperiod where some of the ortho
PTs had to take a little bit ofthat and they were nervous.
So I had to join the mentorshipteam and that probably helped
put me on the radar for mycolleague who brought me in.
(09:51):
But I jumped on thatopportunity and started doing
some help, some work, helpingher build out the women's health
platform.
The thing about startups forthose listeners that maybe don't
have as much experience or knowis you wear all the hats all
the time and you pretty muchnever have a title to reflect
that and usually not pay toreflect that either.
You will be brought into lotsof different projects and you
(10:13):
got to really advocate foryourself because it's really
easy to end up doing a lot ofextra work outside of your God
description for months withoutever transitioning into a new
role.
So that was part of thechallenge there.
But I worked in building thatprogram with them for several
months and then eventually hit awall with that company in
(10:33):
spring of 2023.
They wanted to move me backinto a clinical-facing,
patient-facing role After I'dspent months just developing
this program, doing a ton ofwriting, doing a ton of writing,
doing a ton of brainstormingand big project-based work,
which I loved, and I had satdown with my boss's boss
essentially several times andbeen like I love what we're
(10:53):
building with this, I want to beinvolved, I want to be part of
the clinical development team.
I'll lay out this path for you.
Here's how I can help.
Did the whole thing.
It just wasn't right for themat the time or what they wanted
or what they saw as possible, sothey started pushing me back
into this clinical role and Ihated it.
I was not happy.
So you know, I mean, we've allbeen there, right?
(11:15):
We just, you know, grin andbear it.
But I spent several monthsdoing my best and really trying
to make it work, hoping thateventually my moment would come,
but it never really did.
So that's when I made thedecision to leave that company
last spring, a little over ayear ago, and then things all
went crazy from there.
But that's the health tech sideof things.
Tanner Welsch (11:35):
Okay, so it went crazy.
What happened exactly?
Caitlyn Tivy (11:40):
Yeah, gosh, I don't know.
I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can identify with.
A lot of us in these roles areall type A.
You know, we like to have aplan, we like to know what's
going to happen, right?
I had never left a job in mylife without having something
planned for the next week, youknow, to start a new job.
So that was terrifying for me,but I knew I needed to do it for
my sanity.
My partner made a joke just afew weeks ago.
(12:02):
I was like, hey, caitlin, youcried about work in like six
months.
I was like, yeah, so that was agood sign.
I knew it was time, right, butit was scary.
So I left in May when I said, no, you're going to spend the next
two to three months taking somecontinuing education, dipping
your feet in other things andapplying for lots of jobs and I
was applying mostly for medicalwriting jobs at the time, and
(12:25):
medical writing is a reallycomplex and deep field.
But I had enjoyed what I wasdoing with my side hustle and
working at the startup doingwriting.
So I was like, yeah, I'll givethis a shot.
I had a pretty good portfolioat the time.
I was like, all right, I can dothis, and I spent the whole
summer I took a certificationcourse through the American
Medical Writers Association.
I did a bunch of LinkedIncourses on project management
(12:48):
and other general, more businesstype skills and I applied for
every job under the sun and gotnowhere.
Tanner Welsch (12:55):
How long did you do that for and, if you don't
mind sharing, how many jobs didyou apply for?
Yeah, gosh.
Caitlyn Tivy (13:00):
I kept count for a while and eventually I got
tired of counting.
I know it was upwards of 100.
It was probably closer to 200.
And I was doing this basicallyfrom May until middle of July.
I did have one job that I gotthrough.
It was more of a policy writingrole for a health company,
another health tech company thatwas more on the insurance-based
(13:21):
side, and I got through fiverounds of interviews with them
and then they went with somebodyelse.
So that was unfortunate and Ithink that was the breaking
point.
At least at that time themarket was pretty saturated.
These were all remote roles too.
I live in a rural area ofColorado.
My partner's business is here.
We have no interest in movingor really ability to, so I
didn't want to relocate.
But the remote workforce jobmarket is really saturated
(13:45):
because a lot of people wantthose roles and post-COVID a lot
of companies are moving awayfrom them.
Right, and after about two anda half three months of that I
thought to myself you'respinning the wheels, right.
I just felt like a hamster on awheel and trying to get an
application in two minutes afterit appeared online.
Just that rush was a hustlefeeling.
All the time was too much.
So that's around the time thatI realized maybe I look at doing
(14:08):
something for myself andstarting my own business, which
I never really considered before.
So it was end of last summerthat I jumped into my own
business after getting nowherewith job applications.
Tanner Welsch (14:20):
Okay, let's talk about maybe six months before
you decided to go full-time withthis writing and consultant.
What was all that like and howdid you get it all together to
officially go full-time?
Caitlyn Tivy (14:44):
a holic, I'll work myself to death, and my partner
owns his own business.
I've watched how much he doesand how challenging it is for
him, and I've watched otherpeople in my life run businesses
and it's not easy, but thereare bonuses for sure, and I just
sort of fell into it because ofthis cycle of I'm getting
nowhere with applying fortraditional jobs.
What are my options?
The previous months I mean, Ihad spent three and a half years
at this point doing a lot ofwriting, and a lot of it was
(15:05):
medical content a ton ofeducational content for patients
who might be Googling what canI do for pelvic organ prolapse.
So I had laid a foundation.
I built a portfolio of workover many months and I just sort
of automatically been stagingmy work on an online portfolio
for years already, because itwas helpful when I was talking
(15:25):
to new clients, yeah, and hereare some examples of what I can
do.
So I had that in place, but Ididn't have a lot of other stuff
in place.
Honestly, I had taken, like Imentioned, a project management
course on LinkedIn and thathelped me with some
organizational mindset that Ihadn't really used before.
But when I decided to go fulltime in basically July, and give
(15:46):
myself some time to make my ownbusiness.
I had come across already acompany they're called
Prospology, and it's a companythat's focused on helping
healthcare professionals whowant to become freelance medical
writers.
My work has evolved a littlebit beyond writing now, which we
can talk about, but at the timeI was like, oh, this is perfect
, I can't get hired by anywhereto be a medical writer, so how
(16:07):
can I be a freelancer?
How can I market myself?
So I joined a short-term,four-month program with that
company, pressology, to help meget in more of a business
mindset, with that companyPressology, to help me get in
more of a business mindset, andthat was really helpful during
those early months.
But I'll be honest, it's been alot of trial and error and
learning on the fly.
There's not always a way to belike 100% prepared.
Tanner Welsch (16:27):
And something I'll say too.
It's almost I don't know ifit's the human condition or it's
just really impossible to be100% prepared for everything
that you come across as abusiness owner, but when those
opportunities come and they'reright in front of you, it's okay
.
Now it's definitely the time Ineed to get my stuff together
and get this all locked in, andthen it'll grow and evolve.
(16:52):
That's something I've learnedtoo on its own as time goes by,
because it can easily be oh no,this isn't ready yet, because
analysis paralysis is notperfect.
I can't share it, I can't postit.
You got to do your best and gowith it, and then it just grows
as you go.
Caitlyn Tivy (17:07):
Totally.
And it's funny, titor, I thinkwe as PTs and you know, ots and
SLPs we're really good atsitting on our feet.
We just don't give ourselvescredit for that, right?
Because when you think abouthow creative a PT, for example,
has to be in the clinic everyday to change what they're
offering or prescribing or howthey're treating based on the
individual person in front ofthem, we do that all the time
(17:28):
without even thinking about it.
But for some reason, we have alittle, a lot of us I can't say
for everyone, but a lot of ushave a mental block thinking oh,
we can only do that in thissetting, right.
But we're pretty naturalinnovators and creative thinkers
.
And I love what you said aboutthe analysis, paralysis, and I'm
thinking back to grad schooland how many times our
professors would say just fakeit till you make it, you're
(17:50):
going to figure it out and youdo, right.
You do that in clinical care,and the same thing applies in
other endeavors in business.
Tanner Welsch (17:58):
A hundred percent .
I think the same thing happensif you venture down I mean the
freelance, entrepreneurialbusiness, any of that route.
You're never going to feel ahundred percent about all of it.
You just got to go with it, youknow.
Caitlyn Tivy (18:10):
Exactly, I think that's one of the things I
learned from the startup worldtoo.
They are always building theship as they're sailing it, or
building the plane as they'reflying it, as I think of the
common term, which is scary inthe healthcare space.
But that mindset, tempered bymy medical background and my
caution there, those twotogether, I think, made me a
little bit more willing to takesome chances and try things.
Tanner Welsch (18:33):
For sure.
I got a couple of questions foryou the time six months before
going full time to going fulltime.
Was there a really bigchallenge or frustration that
you had during that time, andhow did you overcome that?
Caitlyn Tivy (18:48):
Every day.
Honestly, I still joke.
People will ask me how's yourwork going?
I'm like, well, it depends onthe day, I think personally, for
me, the income insecurity isthe hardest thing to get used to
, and that's something I'mworking on with a business coach
about how to make for the longrun, how to make income as a
freelancer more consistent,Because when you're used to
being salaried, it's verydifferent.
(19:09):
I have a lot of personal hangupsaround money and fear of
financial ruin and all thisdramatic stuff.
So that mental component wasthe biggest challenge for me of
being well, I might make $1,000this month, but the next month I
might make three.
So getting used to theinsecurity and the variability
is a constant challenge that Istill face today.
(19:30):
I'm lucky that I don't havedependents, I don't have a
mortgage, I don't have kids,it's just my partner and I.
So I have more flexibility, Ithink, than others.
But it's still scary and Ithink last fall especially, I
officially incorporated mybusiness at the end of July,
even though I'd been workingunderneath it, sort of already
(19:56):
going to be a historically badyear for the freelance market in
general and especially in myarea.
Just a lot of things werecoming together between the
economy being still questionableand I was marketing to a lot of
startups and startups werehaving a really hard time last
year.
I can see that now, but in themoment I was really in the weeds
, and in November and Decemberespecially, I felt like I was
getting nowhere.
I was pitching to so manydifferent clients, trying to
(20:17):
find more clientele because Ihad some clients that were
putting work on pause forvarious financial reasons on
their side.
I also didn't know at the timethat December especially at
least in the medical writingworld the whole month is just
gone.
People are in vacation mode andno new work is coming in.
Now I know that now I can planahead, but I didn't.
Then.
Those months in late fall whereI was just banging my head
(20:39):
against a wall and struggling tofind clients, there was a lot
of that imposter syndrome Likeam I not good enough?
Do people not like my work?
Why are these other freelancersI see out there?
Why are they doing well, whyaren't I?
Those moments happen a lot.
I think a solace for me wasfollowing a lot of other people
in various freelancing roles.
Especially there's a few outthere that really keep it real
(21:01):
and they talk about the realityof working for yourself and
freelancing and how it is a lotof up and down, so that helped
keep me sane during thoseperiods.
But it's still challenging whenyou're like, how am I going to
pay the bills this month?
And it's scary, I'll be honest,but there's a lot of rewards
that make up for that scary,I'll be honest.
Tanner Welsch (21:16):
but there's a lot of rewards that make up for
that.
So for sure, you just startedgoing full time in July 2023,
right?
So you know, maybe this hasn'thappened yet, but have you ever
been in a situation where it'slike man, I don't know if this
is going to work long term?
Intro (21:29):
Should.
Tanner Welsch (21:29):
I throw in the towel and do something different
, or keep trying to grow andbuild this thing.
What was that like if you hadthat experience and what made
you decide to keep going?
Caitlyn Tivy (21:40):
Yeah.
So last fall was a realreckoning point.
It was a couple months wherethings really slowed down and I
wasn't sure why and didn't yethave the perspective to
understand that it wasn't me.
So during that time I didn'tthrow in the towel totally on my
business, but I did panic applyfor a few clinical roles
because I was like, well, ifthis continues in January I'm
going to have to go full timeagain.
(22:00):
There's no way.
And luckily things have pickedup this year, thank goodness,
and some of my work that I'vebeen putting in last year is
coming to fruition.
Finally, but I did take a very,very part-time PR and enroll at
a local hospital.
It's very flexible.
I can basically pick the daysthat I want and I'm pretty much
never going to do more than oneday a week for more than a few
(22:21):
weeks at a time.
So it's very sporadic, which isnice, and I'm going to keep it
for a while because when slumpshappen I can lean on it.
I also still see a handful ofpatients at a local clinic right
down the street so I can pickup more people there when things
get slow.
So I didn't give up, I didn'ttake a full-time clinical role
and say screw this business.
I'm never looking at it again.
(22:41):
But I did take out an insurancepolicy, if that makes sense, to
have something to fall back onwhen times get slow.
But I've had several of thosereckoning moments.
When I initially started thebusiness, I said I'm going to
give myself six months and I'mgoing to reevaluate in February
and see where I'm at.
I'm going to look at myfinances and say is this going
to work long-term, how is mybusiness doing?
I chose that number kind ofarbitrarily.
(23:03):
Honestly, now that I'm talkingto more and more, working with
more business people and workingwith a business coach and
talking to people that havebuilt their own businesses more,
I realized that six months isnot a great metric for is your
business going to succeed?
It's got to be longer than that, but I didn't know at the time.
So I'm working on a quarterlycheck-in system with myself
(23:23):
right now and trying to sort ofsystematize that.
But I'm not going to make anyrash decisions every three
months because things change somuch and it might be a few years
before I have a profitabilityfrom the business and that's
fine.
Tanner Welsch (23:41):
But that's something I've learned along the
way and I have these backupoptions behind me now to make me
feel a little safer.
Yeah, I was finishing up a blogpost writing for next degree
with John, who will come on, andsomething that I put in there
was I had actually both twothings to talk about, one for
each of what you just said.
And so the building businessesover time was what I included,
because I talk about sidehustles and my PT or my
(24:03):
podcasting journey in the blogpost and I talk about how long
it takes on average, to create asuccessful online business,
like in the podcast space.
I think average is like fouryears.
Well, a lot of entrepreneurssay three to five.
The first two years you're justfiguring stuff out and trying
to build up, whatever it is,your product and service and get
the revenue stream going.
(24:24):
I mean, it's just, it's crazyman, it's a real risk.
It's a real risk reward thing.
You're going to have to risk itand it may not work out, but
the idea is is it's alignedideally with what you want to do
or a skill set you want tolearn or people you want to
learn from, and so, when it'sall done, you either A have all
(24:45):
that network and thoserelationships and those
connections and or B, you'vedeveloped a skill set by going
down that route that you canideally pivot and use in
something else.
And the other thing with theinsurance policy I think it's a
great idea.
There's, like some of the medtech things that are coming in
with Luna therapy.
They're only offering it forphysical therapists, but they
(25:06):
currently but they're working onspeech path and OT as well and
it's an app where you can justgo on and see, like, do home
health I'm pretty sure it's partB in your local areas and you
can just get on the app and seewhat's available.
So things are changing.
Ideally, it's going to be alittle bit easier, hopefully,
for us to have maybe a littlebit of side insurance on the
side to where it's okay.
(25:27):
If I am slow on the business, Ican pick up this with this new
med tech stuff.
So we've talked about some ofthe scary stuff about being
business owners andentrepreneurs.
What do you love most aboutyour new reality?
Caitlyn Tivy (25:39):
A lot of things and I try to really keep it real
because there's so manybusiness influencers and stuff
out there that are like I made100k in six months.
Great Good for you.
You're one of the 1%.
Great so I and I'm really honestabout it like, yeah, I have
panic moments, totally it'sscary, but I don't want to
underplay the things that I loveabout this work too.
(26:00):
So so glad you asked about that.
The flexibility and theautonomy, I think are the
biggest things for me.
I learned pretty quickly,especially in the startup
environment that I was in.
That company grew really fastwhile I was there and it went
from being pretty small, scrappystartup vibes when I started to
becoming way more corporate Icannot tolerate and that quickly
(26:21):
showed me you're not reallymade for big corporate America,
caitlin.
You're a little too independentfor that and that's fine.
It was a learning journey for me, but because I'm working for
myself, I don't have to dealwith that.
And journey for me.
But because I'm working formyself, I don't have to deal
with that and I have a lot of myown autonomy to make my own
schedule and figure out when Iwant to work, when I work best,
(26:43):
which clients I want to workwith.
And then it does take time.
I'm not going to create anyillusions that a lot of times in
the beginning you're taking anywork you can get.
That's normal, but you get tobecome more picky over time.
But the fact that I get tochoose and I don't have anybody
staring over my shoulder andmicromanaging me makes all the
difference.
And I made the joke earlier thatI'm a workaholic and I'll work
my tail off.
But I think a lot of us are insome ways and you have to keep
(27:05):
that in check.
But I had the moment where Isat with myself and said Caitlin
, this is part of yourpersonality.
You are always going to give110% and you cannot turn that
off.
So if you're always going togive 110%, is it worth it giving
it to yourself in your businessor giving it to someone else
who's paying you a portion ofprobably what you are actually
making for them, right?
Tanner Welsch (27:25):
100%.
I wish I could click a fireemoji and have the fire emoji.
If I'm not.
Caitlyn Tivy (27:32):
Totally, that's how I feel every day.
Just let none fire.
Totally, that's how I feelevery day.
Let none fire.
Tanner Welsch (27:36):
Yeah, like I a hundred percent agree with
everything you just said.
A lot of people that I'vetalked to that have businesses
have said the same thing.
And on these journeys wherewe're like reach a breaking
point, so to speak, of man, Ijust can't do traditional
clinical care anymore, at leastfor me too is why am I giving
all of this to somebody else?
(27:56):
And that's what's crazy aboutcorporations and huge companies.
It's like this thing, that'slike this huge corporation of
many people.
It's not like you're talking tothe name of this business and
it's a person and they canunderstand and see where you're
coming from.
There's so much hierarchy andI'm just going to say BS like
that gets involved when it getsso big and it's why am I, why am
(28:19):
I sacrificing my healthliterally for this?
And it makes that investing inyourself and potentially going
down a business route orentrepreneurial route or
freelance route, whatever, morerealistic.
Okay, I've had enough of this,let's go try something different
.
Caitlyn Tivy (28:37):
Exactly.
I mean, the breaking point is areal thing and for me I knew
when I left my job at thestartup I had a call with the
person I directly reported to,who wasn't a clinician herself,
but she was very emotionallyintelligent and I liked her a
lot and liked working with herand the first thing she said to
me I put in my notice on Fridayand we had met on Monday and we
(28:59):
got on this call and she saidyou look better.
Oh, is it that obvious?
Probably was because I hadcried on a call with her a
couple weeks before.
But she's like you look like aweight has lifted off your
shoulders.
And yeah, I have no idea whatI'm going to do next, but I know
I don't belong here in thiscorporate space.
So thank you for understandingand I was lucky.
She was great about it.
But people can tell when you'rejust surviving instead of being
(29:21):
true to yourself.
Tanner Welsch (29:22):
Yeah, I want to share a little story too that
really is the same example ofwhat we're talking about here.
Something that I never thoughtas a possibility that could
happen, that is a potential ofhappening, is if you're in a
position long term that youdon't like, it's going to wear
on you and it's going to changea little bit your personality
and make you irritable.
(29:43):
And, like you said, people aregoing to notice and it's going
to reflect on your patience andthat customer service and the
overall quality of care.
You know.
You may be have a goodrelationship with your manager
and be like, hey, this isn'tsustainable, I can't do this
long term.
This isn't working.
They might be like, yeah, it'sgoing to be OK, it's just this
(30:06):
long or we're going to getsomebody.
Whatever, you may find yourselfin a situation where it
actually doesn't get better,there is no help coming and
you're just stuck biting thebullet until a later date than
what you thought.
Caitlyn Tivy (30:19):
Exactly.
Tanner Welsch (30:20):
This can really affect the overall quality of
care for everybody involved andeven the reputation of the
company you're working for.
You know, when you like havesome clear water or a pool and
you drop a rock or a pebble init and it just starts and the
waves start going.
It's kind of like that, thatpoint where it's this may not be
that big of a thing right now,but it can grow into something
(30:43):
much larger.
Intro (30:44):
Yeah.
Tanner Welsch (30:45):
And yeah it's.
It's really tough becauseeverybody's stuck between a rock
and a hard place and you justkind of never know how it's
going to turn out a rock and ahard place, and you just kind of
never know how it's going toturn out.
But I just never thought thatsomething like that would happen
and it's definitely apossibility.
So I think it's important, likeyou said, to know when it's
time to go, and know when it'stime to leave and ideally, be
(31:06):
able to set yourself up to makethat jump, even if you don't
have all the answers quitefigured out yet 100%.
Caitlyn Tivy (31:13):
You really hit the nail on the head for something
that I've been thinking about alot during this transition,
because there's a lot of talk inthe space of any medical or
healthcare professional thatleads a profession.
A lot of us are still workingin healthcare adjacent roles, so
we're still making a differencein that area, but there's so
much guilt that a lot of us feelfor leaving patient care,
(31:34):
whether it's am I wasting mydegree or am I abandoning my
patients, whatever it is.
But what you said at some pointyou could actually be doing
your patients more harm becauseyou weren't there, you weren't
engaged.
Your brain is firing at about10% of its capacity.
I mean, we know the system isbroken.
It's probably not working wellfor just about anybody, but for
(31:57):
those of us that are reallyfeeling that this is not right
for me, you aren't abandoningyour patients.
You're probably doing them aservice by finding something
that you succeed in more andflourish in more.
Tanner Welsch (32:05):
So there's many ways to help somebody other than
direct patient care, and let'stake this topic to the next
level.
You know you were talking aboutthe quality of care between you
and the patient and youroverall health, and it's that
rippling effect that if thingsaren't fixed and they sustain in
this bad quality of care,relationship, mental status,
(32:26):
then are those patients going towant to come work with you?
No, they probably are, and so,technically, you can build a bad
rapport and a bad reputation bybeing in this environment.
And technically, if thepatients don't want to come see
you and your company, then yourcoworkers may actually lose out
on potential seeing patients too.
Right, I mean, it's this thingthat can really blow up.
(32:48):
I just wanted to put that outthere, that it's not just
necessarily always you and thepatient.
There's your co-workers andlike other people involved that
it can get to.
Caitlyn Tivy (32:58):
And you could burn bridges with your co-workers
too.
You never know if that personthat you've been working next to
could be a referral source foryou 10 years down the line, and
you don't want to ruin thatrelationship either.
Tanner Welsch (33:09):
That's true.
What is obvious to you now thatmaybe you struggled to see in
the moment when you were workingin the traditional patient
clinical role?
Caitlyn Tivy (33:33):
bubbliest person.
The best definition I've seenis that an extrovert is someone
that is energized by beingaround people.
An introvert is someone that isdrained by being around people
and needs time to themselves torecover.
I still love people.
I'm not a people person.
I enjoy seeing, I enjoy socialevents, I enjoy interacting with
people, but I need that time torecharge that social battery
that I was talking about.
(33:54):
A lot of times, in-personclinical care is not made for
folks like me that just feelthat sense of exhaustion at the
end of every day from givingeverything.
From a personal level, that wasthe realization I had.
You're really not built andwired for something that makes
you be on to this level everysingle day.
(34:14):
It's not you, caitlin.
You're not broken.
You're just not the right fitfor this role and it isn't the
right fit for you For sure.
Tanner Welsch (34:22):
How did you figure that out?
Was that in a transition phaseoutside of a traditional
clinical role, into jumping outinto trying to do the freelance,
into a business stage thing?
Caitlyn Tivy (34:37):
I think it really dawned on me because, I've
mentioned before, I was afraidthat I was going to be a
workaholic and that I wouldnever look up for my work, and
that hasn't come to fruition.
I've been better aboutregulating than I thought I
would be, I should say, but Ithink I really realized I can
sit at my computer and work 10or 12 hours in a day on my
consulting work, my writing, mybuilding, my business building,
my website, whatever, and whenI'm done I'm like oh, I'm just
(35:00):
done, I feel fine, I'm going togo ride my bike now.
Fine.
If I had worked six hours in aclinic, I would feel wrecked.
Tanner Welsch (35:07):
Yeah and that, like you said, just being aware
of well, okay, you know youdon't like this, but being aware
of what you do like, and thenkind of gravitating towards that
.
So that makes sense.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:17):
Totally.
Tanner Welsch (35:18):
And.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:18):
I still love.
I love the science behind rehab.
I love talking about pelvichealth and women's health.
That is so interesting to me.
I just don't necessarily wantto do it to individual patients,
one at a time.
Tanner Welsch (35:28):
Yeah, absolutely, it's like a better fit for you
and who you are.
Yeah, absolutely, it's like abetter fit for you and who you
are.
All right, kaylin.
So wrapping up here, there'ssomething that you like to share
with listeners who may be in asimilar situation or situations
and want to transition topossibly doing some freelance
stuff or taking their freelanceside gig to the next level thing
(35:50):
.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:51):
There's so many cliches.
I think you can do it andbelieve in yourself.
I'm not going to give nextlevel thing.
There's so many cliches.
I think you can do it andbelieve in yourself.
I'm not going to give any ofthose, but I think having even
for some.
I was just talking about what anintrovert I am but even for
those of us that are sort ofself-driven introvert, we need
support and networks, and it wasreally important to me when I
went into business for myselfthat I not put all of that on my
(36:13):
partner either, because he hashis own stresses and his
business and I can't rely on himto be my.
You know I can vent to himanytime, but I don't want to be
layering all my stress on himand I don't want to be, you know
, calling up my parents andlaying all my stress on them
either.
You know I want to keep someseparation between my work and
my loved ones.
So I really was intentionalabout building a network of
(36:37):
people that I can complain toand talk and be real with but
also be supportive of.
So I have several networks thatI'm in.
I have a group of other womenwho are freelancers, mostly in
writing space.
We're a Slack channel togetherand we can chit, chat.
It's like a little co-workingspace, so if we need a break we
can go you know meme at eachother there and we can also ask
for input and ask for vibechecks if you will.
So we can really keep it realin that space.
(37:01):
Working with the Prosphologyprogram for four months was
great because I got to againtalk through these questions
that I maybe thought were stupid.
Never were.
I'm afraid to ask these to aclient or someone that I'm
trying to impress, but I can askthese to my business colleagues
in this group and I'm startinganother business coaching
program next week with adifferent group, just to change
it up and again having thatnetwork of people that I can
(37:22):
bounce ideas off, whether it'sjust to vent or whether it's to
ask very specific, how do I getover this hurdle?
Having little groups of peopleeverywhere that I can rely on
for different questions has madeall the difference, especially
when I'm knowing panic mode orstuck in the weeds on a problem.
Tanner Welsch (37:39):
Yeah, 100% agree.
I've been in a mastermind groupof online entrepreneurs since
COVID and it's been a greatexperience.
I don't think I'd be where I'mat and it's like you're saying.
It doesn't really sound like alot, but just having a group of
people to ask am I doing thisright?
What do you guys think aboutthis?
I've never done this before.
It's just a huge, just help ofgetting through the journey.
(38:03):
And also, something I want toshare is something Rehab Rebels
is starting to do is actually weare beta testing a mastermind
group for rehab clinic owners.
So we have private practiceowners that own their own
clinics.
They see patients and see howthat goes.
But I really want to open it upat some point to online
(38:25):
entrepreneurs, likely in justthe health space.
So, yeah, we'll see it's all alearning, growing project and
see how it goes.
Caitlyn Tivy (38:32):
But I love that people are starved for community
still.
I mean, I know we're post-COVID, but I think there's a hangover
from that or people are reallyinterested in building those
communities in this digital age.
So I love that you're creatingthat space to help people with
exactly exactly this, this issuehow do I stay grounded with
real human beings that can checkme when I'm going crazy?
Tanner Welsch (38:51):
For sure.
Right that support andaccountability Totally, I love
it.
Yeah, well, caitlin, thank youso much for taking time to come
on and be on the show and shareyour story.
It's been great.
Caitlyn Tivy (39:02):
So thank you so much for having me.
It's been great talking aboutit.
Intro (39:05):
Thank you for listening to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
For more information abouttransitioning to alternative
careers, head to rehabrebelsorgor follow us on Instagram at
rehabrebelspodcast.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
Are you a rehab professionalready to transition to an
alternative career?
Hear inspiring stories fromothers just like you and learn
the best ways to bridge yourcareer gap.
This podcast has you covered.
Now here's your host, doctor ofphysical therapy and podcaster,
Tanner Welsh.
Tanner Welsch (00:21):
All right.
This episode is a businesstransition journey about a
physical therapist whotransitioned into being a
medical writer and consultant.
Lgbtq plus health companiesdevelop clinically and
(00:43):
scientifically accurateinformation and products through
clinical consulting, contentdevelopment and medical review.
She started her career inbiomedical research, but pivoted
away from academia after twoyears.
She earned her DPT in 2016 fromthe University of Colorado,
(01:08):
denver, and completed aresidency in orthopedic manual
physical therapy in 2017.
She practiced in outpatientorthopedics and pelvic health
for about four years beforestarting investing in
alternative career paths.
Welcome to the show, kaitlin.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:20):
Thanks so much for having me, Tanner.
It's been fun to be here.
Tanner Welsch (01:23):
Yeah, thanks for coming on.
And where to begin here?
Caitlyn Tivy (01:27):
Yeah, there's a lot.
Tanner Welsch (01:29):
There is a lot right.
It's quite a journey.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:32):
Totally yeah, I'm happy to talk about it.
Tanner Welsch (01:35):
Let's start off with earlier, in the beginning
of the career journey, where youknow you're in a traditional
patient clinical rehab role,where you're in a traditional
patient clinical rehab role, anddiscuss maybe some of the
points where you had the sensethat, or the first sense of
awareness that things weren'tquite right in your rehab career
.
Caitlyn Tivy (01:56):
Gosh.
I feel like this story is socommon to so many rehab
specialists and all disciplinesthat I talk to that it just
starts really slowly, I think,for a lot of us, because we get
our degree and we put in allthis effort to get our DPT or
our OT degree or what have you,and then we're finally there,
we've made it right, so we startworking and we're really in the
(02:16):
weeds for a while, especiallythose first few years.
You're just getting your feetunder you.
You still feel like you barelyknow what you're doing, even
though we're so educated.
But even in those early years,for some of us there's often
just something that feels alittle off.
For me, I think a lot of it washow exhausted I felt at the end
(02:37):
of every day.
I made a lot of excuses forthat for a long time I was like,
well, it's just residency.
Residency is really hard,you'll get through it.
When you're done with residencyit'll get easier.
And then I got out of residencyand started working at a
private practice back home herein Colorado and it kept
happening.
It's like, well, maybe it'sjust getting into this new
practice, maybe I'm justsettling into a new community
(03:00):
and building my caseload andit'll get better, and then, a
couple of years later, stillhappening.
Right, I'm coming home every dayand I enjoyed a lot of moments
in the day, but at the end ofevery day I just felt like a
deflated balloon, just exhausted, no matter how hard I tried to
manage my time and take breaksand all the strategies so many
(03:21):
of us use.
So I think that was one of thefirst signs for me, and I didn't
have a word for it at the time,but it was sort of my social
batteries being completelydrained by just having to be on
all day long.
There were other things too.
I mean, all of us know thestruggle of having to take
documentation home and having towork maybe some extra hours on
(03:42):
the weekend because we're tryingto pay off our loans and all
these things that add up.
But for me, the exhaustion andthat feeling of having no social
battery left for the rest of mylife was the first indicator
that maybe full-time clinicalcare is not right for me.
Tanner Welsch (03:56):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I think you're right 100%.
That happens to a lot of people, that it's really like you have
this fight or flight responsethat's just on all the time,
totally, and it's completelyunhealthy.
I've had some autoimmune stuffhappen for prolonged periods of
time and it's just hey guys,this is a sign this isn't
working.
Something needs to change,right.
Caitlyn Tivy (04:18):
And it's ironic because we're educating our
patients about that too, right,especially if we work in
orthopedics.
All the pain sciences aroundfight or flight and we're
learning more abouttrauma-informed care and the
same problems right, but we'retalking to patients about it and
meanwhile we're living itourselves.
So, yeah, totally, totally feelyou there.
Tanner Welsch (04:35):
For sure.
For you, was there like aspecific moment that you
realized, man, I'm just I'm notgoing to do this clinical care
anymore, this treatment.
Or was it just you mentionedthe gradual, it all just built
up and then you realized therewas no specific moment
necessarily.
Caitlyn Tivy (04:53):
What was that like for you?
I don't know if there was onemoment, but there was definitely
a timeframe of a few monthslate 2019, early 2020, I think
where I was becoming more andmore dissatisfied and all of the
compounding things that hadbeen building up were really
coming to a head.
And in early 2020, right aroundthe time the pandemic was
breaking out.
(05:13):
But even a little before, Istarted investigating more work
related to writing and I'dalways enjoyed writing.
I'd always been a good readerand writing always came
naturally to me, and I don'teven remember how I happened
upon a course, but I found thiscourse called Breaking into
Health Writing Online and thewoman who created it was doing a
promotion and I was like allright, this is on sale, I'll
(05:35):
grab it and I'll work on this.
I started working on it inclinic during the pandemic, when
we had open slots, because myclinic never closed.
We had to keep seeing peoplebecause we're in a rural area,
so we were sort of a safety net,but our caseload was down, so
when I had breaks, I would workon this course.
Then I started doing somewriting for clients and I got
pretty lucky with pitching someearly clients that just jumped
(05:57):
on it and we're like, yeah, we'dlove to have you write some
educational content for us, forour patients.
And I think in those few monthsas I was starting to write for
clients more, I realized thetime that I was spending writing
, because it was usually earlymornings before work or
afternoons after I got home.
I didn't feel like work in thesame way that the clinic did.
(06:17):
And that those few months, Ithink, is when it started to
click like, oh, maybe there areother options out there and
maybe you aren't stuck in theclinic full time forever.
So I think it was somewhatgradual but it really coalesced
over those few months when Ireally jumped into doing more
writing.
Tanner Welsch (06:34):
For sure, would you say.
Was that the first sense ofawareness that you felt that
this could actually be alegitimate career, generate some
income to live off of path?
Caitlyn Tivy (06:45):
You know, I wish I could say yes, but I didn't
believe it.
For a long time I was like thisis just a side gig, this is for
fun and for a little extra playmoney.
You know, I was moonlighting asa writer for three years a
little over three years before Idecided to go full time for
myself, and I worked for atelehealth company during that
time.
So I was doing a lot of otherstuff, but I never thought that
(07:07):
writing and consulting and someof the work I do now could be
full-time.
That took a while.
Tanner Welsch (07:13):
Let's just slide into that, okay.
So what I'm thinking is youwere working in med tech for a
bit and then it sounds like somewriting was sprinkled in there
and then eventually it got to apoint where it was, okay, yeah,
this can be a business.
So let's start at the beginningwith the med tech stuff.
How did you land that?
Because that's a big topicright now.
A lot of people are getting meout of clinical care, getting me
(07:34):
into med tech.
So was that a full-time role?
How did you land it?
Was it a good fit?
Caitlyn Tivy (07:39):
Yeah, I started working for this telehealth
company in spring of 2021.
And it was funny because, forthe last year roughly, I had
been already doing some writingand knew that I wanted to do
something different than theclinic I was in.
But I wasn't sure what and Ithink I applied for the role
that was posted months prior andtotally forgot about it.
And then I got a phone call oneday from a recruiter from this
(08:02):
company.
It's like hey, we'd love totalk to you.
Oh great, I totally spaced thisand that interview process went
pretty quickly and I remembersitting down with my partner and
saying is this smart?
Do I do this?
I don't know, but I wentthrough, I think, three or four
rounds of interviews with themand got a decently good feeling.
So I accepted that job in Aprilor May, I think, and jumped
into that.
There's a lot of differentwords.
(08:22):
There's med tech, telehealth,health tech, all these buzzwords
right.
This company, the job I appliedfor, was a telehealth PT role.
It was still clinical in a way.
I was still going to beinterfacing with patients or, as
we call them, members, but Iwas still talking to people all
day long, essentially.
But I saw the job as a way tojust bridge out of in-person
(08:42):
clinical care.
So I jumped on it and thenduring my time there, about
halfway through the first year,I was recruited by a colleague,
another PT in the company,because this company I was
working for was an MSK focusedvery knee pain, back pain how do
we help people do essentiallyPT from their home using
technology?
But they were starting to buildtheir women's health range.
(09:04):
They wanted to branch out.
So my colleague who had beenbrought into that team reached
out to me and said hey, I knowyou do some writing on the side.
I think she'd seen it on myLinkedIn and stuff like that.
Are you interested in helpingme with a couple of side
projects for this women's healthvertical that we're building?
And I was like oh heck, yeah,that sounds great.
So that was very much byhappenstance.
(09:30):
I think I sort of helped myselfinto that role by volunteering
to be a mentor for other PTs onthe team that were starting to
see some pelvic health concernsand had no idea and they were
panicking.
You know typical orthopediclike we don't talk about the
pelvic floor, it's scary, right.
So there was a transitionperiod where some of the ortho
PTs had to take a little bit ofthat and they were nervous.
So I had to join the mentorshipteam and that probably helped
put me on the radar for mycolleague who brought me in.
(09:51):
But I jumped on thatopportunity and started doing
some help, some work, helpingher build out the women's health
platform.
The thing about startups forthose listeners that maybe don't
have as much experience or knowis you wear all the hats all
the time and you pretty muchnever have a title to reflect
that and usually not pay toreflect that either.
You will be brought into lotsof different projects and you
(10:13):
got to really advocate foryourself because it's really
easy to end up doing a lot ofextra work outside of your God
description for months withoutever transitioning into a new
role.
So that was part of thechallenge there.
But I worked in building thatprogram with them for several
months and then eventually hit awall with that company in
(10:33):
spring of 2023.
They wanted to move me backinto a clinical-facing,
patient-facing role After I'dspent months just developing
this program, doing a ton ofwriting, doing a ton of writing,
doing a ton of brainstormingand big project-based work,
which I loved, and I had satdown with my boss's boss
essentially several times andbeen like I love what we're
(10:53):
building with this, I want to beinvolved, I want to be part of
the clinical development team.
I'll lay out this path for you.
Here's how I can help.
Did the whole thing.
It just wasn't right for themat the time or what they wanted
or what they saw as possible, sothey started pushing me back
into this clinical role and Ihated it.
I was not happy.
So you know, I mean, we've allbeen there, right?
(11:15):
We just, you know, grin andbear it.
But I spent several monthsdoing my best and really trying
to make it work, hoping thateventually my moment would come,
but it never really did.
So that's when I made thedecision to leave that company
last spring, a little over ayear ago, and then things all
went crazy from there.
But that's the health tech sideof things.
Tanner Welsch (11:35):
Okay, so it went crazy.
What happened exactly?
Caitlyn Tivy (11:40):
Yeah, gosh, I don't know.
I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can identify with.
A lot of us in these roles areall type A.
You know, we like to have aplan, we like to know what's
going to happen, right?
I had never left a job in mylife without having something
planned for the next week, youknow, to start a new job.
So that was terrifying for me,but I knew I needed to do it for
my sanity.
My partner made a joke just afew weeks ago.
(12:02):
I was like, hey, caitlin, youcried about work in like six
months.
I was like, yeah, so that was agood sign.
I knew it was time, right, butit was scary.
So I left in May when I said, no, you're going to spend the next
two to three months taking somecontinuing education, dipping
your feet in other things andapplying for lots of jobs and I
was applying mostly for medicalwriting jobs at the time, and
(12:25):
medical writing is a reallycomplex and deep field.
But I had enjoyed what I wasdoing with my side hustle and
working at the startup doingwriting.
So I was like, yeah, I'll givethis a shot.
I had a pretty good portfolioat the time.
I was like, all right, I can dothis, and I spent the whole
summer I took a certificationcourse through the American
Medical Writers Association.
I did a bunch of LinkedIncourses on project management
(12:48):
and other general, more businesstype skills and I applied for
every job under the sun and gotnowhere.
Tanner Welsch (12:55):
How long did you do that for and, if you don't
mind sharing, how many jobs didyou apply for?
Yeah, gosh.
Caitlyn Tivy (13:00):
I kept count for a while and eventually I got
tired of counting.
I know it was upwards of 100.
It was probably closer to 200.
And I was doing this basicallyfrom May until middle of July.
I did have one job that I gotthrough.
It was more of a policy writingrole for a health company,
another health tech company thatwas more on the insurance-based
(13:21):
side, and I got through fiverounds of interviews with them
and then they went with somebodyelse.
So that was unfortunate and Ithink that was the breaking
point.
At least at that time themarket was pretty saturated.
These were all remote roles too.
I live in a rural area ofColorado.
My partner's business is here.
We have no interest in movingor really ability to, so I
didn't want to relocate.
But the remote workforce jobmarket is really saturated
(13:45):
because a lot of people wantthose roles and post-COVID a lot
of companies are moving awayfrom them.
Right, and after about two anda half three months of that I
thought to myself you'respinning the wheels, right.
I just felt like a hamster on awheel and trying to get an
application in two minutes afterit appeared online.
Just that rush was a hustlefeeling.
All the time was too much.
So that's around the time thatI realized maybe I look at doing
(14:08):
something for myself andstarting my own business, which
I never really considered before.
So it was end of last summerthat I jumped into my own
business after getting nowherewith job applications.
Tanner Welsch (14:20):
Okay, let's talk about maybe six months before
you decided to go full-time withthis writing and consultant.
What was all that like and howdid you get it all together to
officially go full-time?
Caitlyn Tivy (14:44):
a holic, I'll work myself to death, and my partner
owns his own business.
I've watched how much he doesand how challenging it is for
him, and I've watched otherpeople in my life run businesses
and it's not easy, but thereare bonuses for sure, and I just
sort of fell into it because ofthis cycle of I'm getting
nowhere with applying fortraditional jobs.
What are my options?
The previous months I mean, Ihad spent three and a half years
at this point doing a lot ofwriting, and a lot of it was
(15:05):
medical content a ton ofeducational content for patients
who might be Googling what canI do for pelvic organ prolapse.
So I had laid a foundation.
I built a portfolio of workover many months and I just sort
of automatically been stagingmy work on an online portfolio
for years already, because itwas helpful when I was talking
(15:25):
to new clients, yeah, and hereare some examples of what I can
do.
So I had that in place, but Ididn't have a lot of other stuff
in place.
Honestly, I had taken, like Imentioned, a project management
course on LinkedIn and thathelped me with some
organizational mindset that Ihadn't really used before.
But when I decided to go fulltime in basically July, and give
(15:46):
myself some time to make my ownbusiness.
I had come across already acompany they're called
Prospology, and it's a companythat's focused on helping
healthcare professionals whowant to become freelance medical
writers.
My work has evolved a littlebit beyond writing now, which we
can talk about, but at the timeI was like, oh, this is perfect
, I can't get hired by anywhereto be a medical writer, so how
(16:07):
can I be a freelancer?
How can I market myself?
So I joined a short-term,four-month program with that
company, pressology, to help meget in more of a business
mindset, with that companyPressology, to help me get in
more of a business mindset, andthat was really helpful during
those early months.
But I'll be honest, it's been alot of trial and error and
learning on the fly.
There's not always a way to belike 100% prepared.
Tanner Welsch (16:27):
And something I'll say too.
It's almost I don't know ifit's the human condition or it's
just really impossible to be100% prepared for everything
that you come across as abusiness owner, but when those
opportunities come and they'reright in front of you, it's okay
.
Now it's definitely the time Ineed to get my stuff together
and get this all locked in, andthen it'll grow and evolve.
(16:52):
That's something I've learnedtoo on its own as time goes by,
because it can easily be oh no,this isn't ready yet, because
analysis paralysis is notperfect.
I can't share it, I can't postit.
You got to do your best and gowith it, and then it just grows
as you go.
Caitlyn Tivy (17:07):
Totally.
And it's funny, titor, I thinkwe as PTs and you know, ots and
SLPs we're really good atsitting on our feet.
We just don't give ourselvescredit for that, right?
Because when you think abouthow creative a PT, for example,
has to be in the clinic everyday to change what they're
offering or prescribing or howthey're treating based on the
individual person in front ofthem, we do that all the time
(17:28):
without even thinking about it.
But for some reason, we have alittle, a lot of us I can't say
for everyone, but a lot of ushave a mental block thinking oh,
we can only do that in thissetting, right.
But we're pretty naturalinnovators and creative thinkers
.
And I love what you said aboutthe analysis, paralysis, and I'm
thinking back to grad schooland how many times our
professors would say just fakeit till you make it, you're
(17:50):
going to figure it out and youdo, right.
You do that in clinical care,and the same thing applies in
other endeavors in business.
Tanner Welsch (17:58):
A hundred percent .
I think the same thing happensif you venture down I mean the
freelance, entrepreneurialbusiness, any of that route.
You're never going to feel ahundred percent about all of it.
You just got to go with it, youknow.
Caitlyn Tivy (18:10):
Exactly, I think that's one of the things I
learned from the startup worldtoo.
They are always building theship as they're sailing it, or
building the plane as they'reflying it, as I think of the
common term, which is scary inthe healthcare space.
But that mindset, tempered bymy medical background and my
caution there, those twotogether, I think, made me a
little bit more willing to takesome chances and try things.
Tanner Welsch (18:33):
For sure.
I got a couple of questions foryou the time six months before
going full time to going fulltime.
Was there a really bigchallenge or frustration that
you had during that time, andhow did you overcome that?
Caitlyn Tivy (18:48):
Every day.
Honestly, I still joke.
People will ask me how's yourwork going?
I'm like, well, it depends onthe day, I think personally, for
me, the income insecurity isthe hardest thing to get used to
, and that's something I'mworking on with a business coach
about how to make for the longrun, how to make income as a
freelancer more consistent,Because when you're used to
being salaried, it's verydifferent.
(19:09):
I have a lot of personal hangupsaround money and fear of
financial ruin and all thisdramatic stuff.
So that mental component wasthe biggest challenge for me of
being well, I might make $1,000this month, but the next month I
might make three.
So getting used to theinsecurity and the variability
is a constant challenge that Istill face today.
(19:30):
I'm lucky that I don't havedependents, I don't have a
mortgage, I don't have kids,it's just my partner and I.
So I have more flexibility, Ithink, than others.
But it's still scary and Ithink last fall especially, I
officially incorporated mybusiness at the end of July,
even though I'd been workingunderneath it, sort of already
(19:56):
going to be a historically badyear for the freelance market in
general and especially in myarea.
Just a lot of things werecoming together between the
economy being still questionableand I was marketing to a lot of
startups and startups werehaving a really hard time last
year.
I can see that now, but in themoment I was really in the weeds
, and in November and Decemberespecially, I felt like I was
getting nowhere.
I was pitching to so manydifferent clients, trying to
(20:17):
find more clientele because Ihad some clients that were
putting work on pause forvarious financial reasons on
their side.
I also didn't know at the timethat December especially at
least in the medical writingworld the whole month is just
gone.
People are in vacation mode andno new work is coming in.
Now I know that now I can planahead, but I didn't.
Then.
Those months in late fall whereI was just banging my head
(20:39):
against a wall and struggling tofind clients, there was a lot
of that imposter syndrome Likeam I not good enough?
Do people not like my work?
Why are these other freelancersI see out there?
Why are they doing well, whyaren't I?
Those moments happen a lot.
I think a solace for me wasfollowing a lot of other people
in various freelancing roles.
Especially there's a few outthere that really keep it real
(21:01):
and they talk about the realityof working for yourself and
freelancing and how it is a lotof up and down, so that helped
keep me sane during thoseperiods.
But it's still challenging whenyou're like, how am I going to
pay the bills this month?
And it's scary, I'll be honest,but there's a lot of rewards
that make up for that scary,I'll be honest.
Tanner Welsch (21:16):
but there's a lot of rewards that make up for
that.
So for sure, you just startedgoing full time in July 2023,
right?
So you know, maybe this hasn'thappened yet, but have you ever
been in a situation where it'slike man, I don't know if this
is going to work long term?
Intro (21:29):
Should.
Tanner Welsch (21:29):
I throw in the towel and do something different
, or keep trying to grow andbuild this thing.
What was that like if you hadthat experience and what made
you decide to keep going?
Caitlyn Tivy (21:40):
Yeah.
So last fall was a realreckoning point.
It was a couple months wherethings really slowed down and I
wasn't sure why and didn't yethave the perspective to
understand that it wasn't me.
So during that time I didn'tthrow in the towel totally on my
business, but I did panic applyfor a few clinical roles
because I was like, well, ifthis continues in January I'm
going to have to go full timeagain.
(22:00):
There's no way.
And luckily things have pickedup this year, thank goodness,
and some of my work that I'vebeen putting in last year is
coming to fruition.
Finally, but I did take a very,very part-time PR and enroll at
a local hospital.
It's very flexible.
I can basically pick the daysthat I want and I'm pretty much
never going to do more than oneday a week for more than a few
(22:21):
weeks at a time.
So it's very sporadic, which isnice, and I'm going to keep it
for a while because when slumpshappen I can lean on it.
I also still see a handful ofpatients at a local clinic right
down the street so I can pickup more people there when things
get slow.
So I didn't give up, I didn'ttake a full-time clinical role
and say screw this business.
I'm never looking at it again.
(22:41):
But I did take out an insurancepolicy, if that makes sense, to
have something to fall back onwhen times get slow.
But I've had several of thosereckoning moments.
When I initially started thebusiness, I said I'm going to
give myself six months and I'mgoing to reevaluate in February
and see where I'm at.
I'm going to look at myfinances and say is this going
to work long-term, how is mybusiness doing?
I chose that number kind ofarbitrarily.
(23:03):
Honestly, now that I'm talkingto more and more, working with
more business people and workingwith a business coach and
talking to people that havebuilt their own businesses more,
I realized that six months isnot a great metric for is your
business going to succeed?
It's got to be longer than that, but I didn't know at the time.
So I'm working on a quarterlycheck-in system with myself
(23:23):
right now and trying to sort ofsystematize that.
But I'm not going to make anyrash decisions every three
months because things change somuch and it might be a few years
before I have a profitabilityfrom the business and that's
fine.
Tanner Welsch (23:41):
But that's something I've learned along the
way and I have these backupoptions behind me now to make me
feel a little safer.
Yeah, I was finishing up a blogpost writing for next degree
with John, who will come on, andsomething that I put in there
was I had actually both twothings to talk about, one for
each of what you just said.
And so the building businessesover time was what I included,
because I talk about sidehustles and my PT or my
(24:03):
podcasting journey in the blogpost and I talk about how long
it takes on average, to create asuccessful online business,
like in the podcast space.
I think average is like fouryears.
Well, a lot of entrepreneurssay three to five.
The first two years you're justfiguring stuff out and trying
to build up, whatever it is,your product and service and get
the revenue stream going.
(24:24):
I mean, it's just, it's crazyman, it's a real risk.
It's a real risk reward thing.
You're going to have to risk itand it may not work out, but
the idea is is it's alignedideally with what you want to do
or a skill set you want tolearn or people you want to
learn from, and so, when it'sall done, you either A have all
(24:45):
that network and thoserelationships and those
connections and or B, you'vedeveloped a skill set by going
down that route that you canideally pivot and use in
something else.
And the other thing with theinsurance policy I think it's a
great idea.
There's, like some of the medtech things that are coming in
with Luna therapy.
They're only offering it forphysical therapists, but they
(25:06):
currently but they're working onspeech path and OT as well and
it's an app where you can justgo on and see, like, do home
health I'm pretty sure it's partB in your local areas and you
can just get on the app and seewhat's available.
So things are changing.
Ideally, it's going to be alittle bit easier, hopefully,
for us to have maybe a littlebit of side insurance on the
side to where it's okay.
(25:27):
If I am slow on the business, Ican pick up this with this new
med tech stuff.
So we've talked about some ofthe scary stuff about being
business owners andentrepreneurs.
What do you love most aboutyour new reality?
Caitlyn Tivy (25:39):
A lot of things and I try to really keep it real
because there's so manybusiness influencers and stuff
out there that are like I made100k in six months.
Great Good for you.
You're one of the 1%.
Great so I and I'm really honestabout it like, yeah, I have
panic moments, totally it'sscary, but I don't want to
underplay the things that I loveabout this work too.
(26:00):
So so glad you asked about that.
The flexibility and theautonomy, I think are the
biggest things for me.
I learned pretty quickly,especially in the startup
environment that I was in.
That company grew really fastwhile I was there and it went
from being pretty small, scrappystartup vibes when I started to
becoming way more corporate Icannot tolerate and that quickly
(26:21):
showed me you're not reallymade for big corporate America,
caitlin.
You're a little too independentfor that and that's fine.
It was a learning journey for me, but because I'm working for
myself, I don't have to dealwith that.
And journey for me.
But because I'm working formyself, I don't have to deal
with that and I have a lot of myown autonomy to make my own
schedule and figure out when Iwant to work, when I work best,
(26:43):
which clients I want to workwith.
And then it does take time.
I'm not going to create anyillusions that a lot of times in
the beginning you're taking anywork you can get.
That's normal, but you get tobecome more picky over time.
But the fact that I get tochoose and I don't have anybody
staring over my shoulder andmicromanaging me makes all the
difference.
And I made the joke earlier thatI'm a workaholic and I'll work
my tail off.
But I think a lot of us are insome ways and you have to keep
(27:05):
that in check.
But I had the moment where Isat with myself and said Caitlin
, this is part of yourpersonality.
You are always going to give110% and you cannot turn that
off.
So if you're always going togive 110%, is it worth it giving
it to yourself in your businessor giving it to someone else
who's paying you a portion ofprobably what you are actually
making for them, right?
Tanner Welsch (27:25):
100%.
I wish I could click a fireemoji and have the fire emoji.
If I'm not.
Caitlyn Tivy (27:32):
Totally, that's how I feel every day.
Just let none fire.
Totally, that's how I feelevery day.
Let none fire.
Tanner Welsch (27:36):
Yeah, like I a hundred percent agree with
everything you just said.
A lot of people that I'vetalked to that have businesses
have said the same thing.
And on these journeys wherewe're like reach a breaking
point, so to speak, of man, Ijust can't do traditional
clinical care anymore, at leastfor me too is why am I giving
all of this to somebody else?
(27:56):
And that's what's crazy aboutcorporations and huge companies.
It's like this thing, that'slike this huge corporation of
many people.
It's not like you're talking tothe name of this business and
it's a person and they canunderstand and see where you're
coming from.
There's so much hierarchy andI'm just going to say BS like
that gets involved when it getsso big and it's why am I, why am
(28:19):
I sacrificing my healthliterally for this?
And it makes that investing inyourself and potentially going
down a business route orentrepreneurial route or
freelance route, whatever, morerealistic.
Okay, I've had enough of this,let's go try something different
.
Caitlyn Tivy (28:37):
Exactly.
I mean, the breaking point is areal thing and for me I knew
when I left my job at thestartup I had a call with the
person I directly reported to,who wasn't a clinician herself,
but she was very emotionallyintelligent and I liked her a
lot and liked working with herand the first thing she said to
me I put in my notice on Fridayand we had met on Monday and we
(28:59):
got on this call and she saidyou look better.
Oh, is it that obvious?
Probably was because I hadcried on a call with her a
couple weeks before.
But she's like you look like aweight has lifted off your
shoulders.
And yeah, I have no idea whatI'm going to do next, but I know
I don't belong here in thiscorporate space.
So thank you for understandingand I was lucky.
She was great about it.
But people can tell when you'rejust surviving instead of being
(29:21):
true to yourself.
Tanner Welsch (29:22):
Yeah, I want to share a little story too that
really is the same example ofwhat we're talking about here.
Something that I never thoughtas a possibility that could
happen, that is a potential ofhappening, is if you're in a
position long term that youdon't like, it's going to wear
on you and it's going to changea little bit your personality
and make you irritable.
(29:43):
And, like you said, people aregoing to notice and it's going
to reflect on your patience andthat customer service and the
overall quality of care.
You know.
You may be have a goodrelationship with your manager
and be like, hey, this isn'tsustainable, I can't do this
long term.
This isn't working.
They might be like, yeah, it'sgoing to be OK, it's just this
(30:06):
long or we're going to getsomebody.
Whatever, you may find yourselfin a situation where it
actually doesn't get better,there is no help coming and
you're just stuck biting thebullet until a later date than
what you thought.
Caitlyn Tivy (30:19):
Exactly.
Tanner Welsch (30:20):
This can really affect the overall quality of
care for everybody involved andeven the reputation of the
company you're working for.
You know, when you like havesome clear water or a pool and
you drop a rock or a pebble init and it just starts and the
waves start going.
It's kind of like that, thatpoint where it's this may not be
that big of a thing right now,but it can grow into something
(30:43):
much larger.
Intro (30:44):
Yeah.
Tanner Welsch (30:45):
And yeah it's.
It's really tough becauseeverybody's stuck between a rock
and a hard place and you justkind of never know how it's
going to turn out a rock and ahard place, and you just kind of
never know how it's going toturn out.
But I just never thought thatsomething like that would happen
and it's definitely apossibility.
So I think it's important, likeyou said, to know when it's
time to go, and know when it'stime to leave and ideally, be
(31:06):
able to set yourself up to makethat jump, even if you don't
have all the answers quitefigured out yet 100%.
Caitlyn Tivy (31:13):
You really hit the nail on the head for something
that I've been thinking about alot during this transition,
because there's a lot of talk inthe space of any medical or
healthcare professional thatleads a profession.
A lot of us are still workingin healthcare adjacent roles, so
we're still making a differencein that area, but there's so
much guilt that a lot of us feelfor leaving patient care,
(31:34):
whether it's am I wasting mydegree or am I abandoning my
patients, whatever it is.
But what you said at some pointyou could actually be doing
your patients more harm becauseyou weren't there, you weren't
engaged.
Your brain is firing at about10% of its capacity.
I mean, we know the system isbroken.
It's probably not working wellfor just about anybody, but for
(31:57):
those of us that are reallyfeeling that this is not right
for me, you aren't abandoningyour patients.
You're probably doing them aservice by finding something
that you succeed in more andflourish in more.
Tanner Welsch (32:05):
So there's many ways to help somebody other than
direct patient care, and let'stake this topic to the next
level.
You know you were talking aboutthe quality of care between you
and the patient and youroverall health, and it's that
rippling effect that if thingsaren't fixed and they sustain in
this bad quality of care,relationship, mental status,
(32:26):
then are those patients going towant to come work with you?
No, they probably are, and so,technically, you can build a bad
rapport and a bad reputation bybeing in this environment.
And technically, if thepatients don't want to come see
you and your company, then yourcoworkers may actually lose out
on potential seeing patients too.
Right, I mean, it's this thingthat can really blow up.
(32:48):
I just wanted to put that outthere, that it's not just
necessarily always you and thepatient.
There's your co-workers andlike other people involved that
it can get to.
Caitlyn Tivy (32:58):
And you could burn bridges with your co-workers
too.
You never know if that personthat you've been working next to
could be a referral source foryou 10 years down the line, and
you don't want to ruin thatrelationship either.
Tanner Welsch (33:09):
That's true.
What is obvious to you now thatmaybe you struggled to see in
the moment when you were workingin the traditional patient
clinical role?
Caitlyn Tivy (33:33):
bubbliest person.
The best definition I've seenis that an extrovert is someone
that is energized by beingaround people.
An introvert is someone that isdrained by being around people
and needs time to themselves torecover.
I still love people.
I'm not a people person.
I enjoy seeing, I enjoy socialevents, I enjoy interacting with
people, but I need that time torecharge that social battery
that I was talking about.
(33:54):
A lot of times, in-personclinical care is not made for
folks like me that just feelthat sense of exhaustion at the
end of every day from givingeverything.
From a personal level, that wasthe realization I had.
You're really not built andwired for something that makes
you be on to this level everysingle day.
(34:14):
It's not you, caitlin.
You're not broken.
You're just not the right fitfor this role and it isn't the
right fit for you For sure.
Tanner Welsch (34:22):
How did you figure that out?
Was that in a transition phaseoutside of a traditional
clinical role, into jumping outinto trying to do the freelance,
into a business stage thing?
Caitlyn Tivy (34:37):
I think it really dawned on me because, I've
mentioned before, I was afraidthat I was going to be a
workaholic and that I wouldnever look up for my work, and
that hasn't come to fruition.
I've been better aboutregulating than I thought I
would be, I should say, but Ithink I really realized I can
sit at my computer and work 10or 12 hours in a day on my
consulting work, my writing, mybuilding, my business building,
my website, whatever, and whenI'm done I'm like oh, I'm just
(35:00):
done, I feel fine, I'm going togo ride my bike now.
Fine.
If I had worked six hours in aclinic, I would feel wrecked.
Tanner Welsch (35:07):
Yeah and that, like you said, just being aware
of well, okay, you know youdon't like this, but being aware
of what you do like, and thenkind of gravitating towards that
.
So that makes sense.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:17):
Totally.
Tanner Welsch (35:18):
And.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:18):
I still love.
I love the science behind rehab.
I love talking about pelvichealth and women's health.
That is so interesting to me.
I just don't necessarily wantto do it to individual patients,
one at a time.
Tanner Welsch (35:28):
Yeah, absolutely, it's like a better fit for you
and who you are.
Yeah, absolutely, it's like abetter fit for you and who you
are.
All right, kaylin.
So wrapping up here, there'ssomething that you like to share
with listeners who may be in asimilar situation or situations
and want to transition topossibly doing some freelance
stuff or taking their freelanceside gig to the next level thing
(35:50):
.
Caitlyn Tivy (35:51):
There's so many cliches.
I think you can do it andbelieve in yourself.
I'm not going to give nextlevel thing.
There's so many cliches.
I think you can do it andbelieve in yourself.
I'm not going to give any ofthose, but I think having even
for some.
I was just talking about what anintrovert I am but even for
those of us that are sort ofself-driven introvert, we need
support and networks, and it wasreally important to me when I
went into business for myselfthat I not put all of that on my
(36:13):
partner either, because he hashis own stresses and his
business and I can't rely on himto be my.
You know I can vent to himanytime, but I don't want to be
layering all my stress on himand I don't want to be, you know
, calling up my parents andlaying all my stress on them
either.
You know I want to keep someseparation between my work and
my loved ones.
So I really was intentionalabout building a network of
(36:37):
people that I can complain toand talk and be real with but
also be supportive of.
So I have several networks thatI'm in.
I have a group of other womenwho are freelancers, mostly in
writing space.
We're a Slack channel togetherand we can chit, chat.
It's like a little co-workingspace, so if we need a break we
can go you know meme at eachother there and we can also ask
for input and ask for vibechecks if you will.
So we can really keep it realin that space.
(37:01):
Working with the Prosphologyprogram for four months was
great because I got to againtalk through these questions
that I maybe thought were stupid.
Never were.
I'm afraid to ask these to aclient or someone that I'm
trying to impress, but I can askthese to my business colleagues
in this group and I'm startinganother business coaching
program next week with adifferent group, just to change
it up and again having thatnetwork of people that I can
(37:22):
bounce ideas off, whether it'sjust to vent or whether it's to
ask very specific, how do I getover this hurdle?
Having little groups of peopleeverywhere that I can rely on
for different questions has madeall the difference, especially
when I'm knowing panic mode orstuck in the weeds on a problem.
Tanner Welsch (37:39):
Yeah, 100% agree.
I've been in a mastermind groupof online entrepreneurs since
COVID and it's been a greatexperience.
I don't think I'd be where I'mat and it's like you're saying.
It doesn't really sound like alot, but just having a group of
people to ask am I doing thisright?
What do you guys think aboutthis?
I've never done this before.
It's just a huge, just help ofgetting through the journey.
(38:03):
And also, something I want toshare is something Rehab Rebels
is starting to do is actually weare beta testing a mastermind
group for rehab clinic owners.
So we have private practiceowners that own their own
clinics.
They see patients and see howthat goes.
But I really want to open it upat some point to online
(38:25):
entrepreneurs, likely in justthe health space.
So, yeah, we'll see it's all alearning, growing project and
see how it goes.
Caitlyn Tivy (38:32):
But I love that people are starved for community
still.
I mean, I know we're post-COVID, but I think there's a hangover
from that or people are reallyinterested in building those
communities in this digital age.
So I love that you're creatingthat space to help people with
exactly exactly this, this issuehow do I stay grounded with
real human beings that can checkme when I'm going crazy?
Tanner Welsch (38:51):
For sure.
Right that support andaccountability Totally, I love
it.
Yeah, well, caitlin, thank youso much for taking time to come
on and be on the show and shareyour story.
It's been great.
Caitlyn Tivy (39:02):
So thank you so much for having me.
It's been great talking aboutit.
Intro (39:05):
Thank you for listening to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
For more information abouttransitioning to alternative
careers, head to rehabrebelsorgor follow us on Instagram at
rehabrebelspodcast.
We'll see you next time.
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