September 26, 2024 • 32 mins
#064 What happens when you blend a love for the ocean with a dedication to neurodiverse children? Naomi Matanick, a passionate occupational therapist, reveals her inspiring journey from traditional therapy settings to starting a surf therapy business. Starting a new business is never easy, especially one as innovative as surf therapy. Naomi opens up about the early challenges of bootstrapping her business, from overcoming fear and analysis paralysis to coping with imposter syndrome.
In this episode, you will learn how Naomi discovered surf therapy, the challenges she encountered early on in her practice, how to conduct surf therapy during the colder seasons, the logistics of growing the business, and the importance of adapting services based on client needs. Naomi’s story underscores the necessity of taking the plunge even when everything isn’t perfectly in place, providing an open look at the pressures entrepreneurs face and the importance of perseverance. We also discuss the importance of marketing and networking, the benefits of having a business coach, and the ongoing process of refining her business model.
Naomi's journey offers invaluable insights for anyone looking to turn their passion into a thriving business, emphasizing the importance of following one's passions, adapting professional expertise, and persevering through challenges. Naomi's surf therapy business not only provides a unique therapeutic niche but also serves as an inspiration for others to explore unconventional paths in their careers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro (00:01):
Welcome to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
Are you a rehab professionalready to transition to an
alternative career?
Hear inspiring stories fromothers just like you and learn
the best ways to bridge yourcareer gap.
This podcast has you covered.
Now here's your host, doctor ofphysical therapy and podcaster,
Tanner Welsh.
Tanner Welsch (00:20):
Welcome back to Rehab Rebels.
Today's guest is Naomi Matnick.
She grew up in Kentucky,malaysia and Ohio and attended
the University of Finley inFinley, ohio, and she's
currently working for agovernment agency which offers
therapy to the earlyintervention population, and
she's also building out her surftherapy company for
(00:42):
neurodiverse kids, woo.
So welcome to the show, naomi.
She's also building out hersurf therapy company for
neurodiverse kids.
Woohoo, yeah, so welcome to theshow, naomi.
Naomi Matanick (00:48):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Tanner, forhaving me.
Tanner Welsch (00:51):
Love having you come on the show and my manager
mentioned you.
She was super stoked andexcited too.
She's doing surf and physicaltherapy Like what?
Educational therapy Educationaltherapy, yeah, and I've never
heard of any of the therapistsdoing that.
So we really got to reach outand get her on the show and just
talk about her story and howshe's doing this, you know.
(01:13):
So I'd love to get a little bitof introduction into that gap
really between when yougraduated from OT school and
then before you really startedtaking off or maybe even thought
about the whole surf therapy,occupational therapy thing.
What were some of thetraditional settings that you
were in?
And then we'll get into thequestions of okay, why wasn't
(01:34):
this for you?
Naomi Matanick (01:35):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I've been an occupationaltherapist for almost eight years
, so there been a large periodof time where I worked in
traditional settings.
I've worked in pediatrics, themajority of my time as an OT, a
little bit of time working inadult populations, and have
worked in outpatient clinics forkids, nursing homes, hospitals,
(02:00):
home health, for both adultsand kids.
But through that time, you knowmy primary passion has always
been kids.
You know, if I've ever spenttime working with adults, no
matter the setting, I alwaysreturn to being the most
passionate about working withkids, particularly a model
called sensory integration,which is a model that really
(02:20):
looks at how, if we organize andmature our nervous system, how
that impacts our function andour participation in our
day-to-day life.
I've had some amazing mentorsworking in those spaces.
I learned so much clinicallythat I really needed to really
have a solid foundation for whatI'm launching into right now.
(02:42):
But I think the thing thatreally made me think okay, I
need to make a shift, I need todo something different, was a
couple of things.
Personally, I felt that I wasgetting burnt out by my caseload
.
Yeah, it was just too much forme personally of having multiple
cases a day and, I guess,maintaining what I thought to be
(03:06):
good patient care and also justfor my own mental health, and
being able to maintain that andhave a balance in my energy
level.
And have always loved the water, have always seen it as a
therapeutic space for myself.
I'd always wished that I coulddo something with the water
related to my work, but I didn'tknow how or what that was.
(03:27):
And then, in 2020, I discoveredthat surf therapy existed and I
was so stoked and could notbelieve it, and I guess the rest
is history from there.
Tanner Welsch (03:39):
For sure.
So it sounds like you triedseveral settings.
You know traditional settingsas you were going through before
you got where you are now andyou mentioned burnout, going
from the traditional setting tofirst discovering this surf
therapy.
To me that seems a transitionpoint or definitely a big pain
point.
How did you know where to go,what to do next or what you were
(04:03):
doing in the traditional modelyou know, especially for the
majority, is not really workingand the burnout's just not going
to work out long term.
So it's really that discoveryphase of how do I decide what to
do next?
What fills my cup.
Can you explain a little bitmore about how that was for you
with going down this surftrajectory, with where you're at
(04:24):
?
Naomi Matanick (04:26):
Yeah, no, I mean I can get into that.
I'm laughing because I don'tthink I ever intended to start a
business.
You know, water has always beena part of my life.
Like I mentioned, in college Iworked a job on the beach where
I basically rented kayaks out totourists and would push them
into the water and just doingthat all day long.
I even thought at that point Ithought, man, if I could do this
(04:48):
job a real job I would be sohappy.
And then, out of college, thefirst clinic I worked at during
the summer is my boss wouldactually lead this kayaking
program for the kids in ourclinic and I would go out to the
lake on a Tuesday night afterwe had worked a full day and do
an hour long program with allthese kids in the clinic.
And I would go out to the lakeon a Tuesday night after we had
worked a full day and do an hourlong program with all these
kids in the water.
(05:09):
And it didn't matter to me thatI had worked a full day.
I would get to that lake and beon the water with the kids and
it was honestly the best part ofmy week.
Then, you know, I went backinto clinic space full time.
And as I was reaching thatburnout point for myself, you
know, I was talking to someclose friends, talking to some
mentors, and really, quitehonestly, I thought I would
(05:31):
maybe leave OT because it justwas taking too much of a toll on
my own personal health.
And one of my mentors was hey,wait a minute, you have all this
knowledge, do you think there'ssomething that you can still
apply it to?
And I told her oh well, youknow, I learned about this thing
called surf therapy and I thinkit's really cool, and you know
(05:51):
she's okay.
Well, why don't you try doingsomething like that?
I always say to people okay, Iknow how to be a therapist, I
know how to be a surfer myself,but, like you're saying, how do
I turn this into therapy and ajob?
And, you know, make those twoworlds merge.
And so I did reach out to asurf therapy company that
focuses on mental health forwomen, but at the time I didn't
(06:14):
know that other surf therapycompanies existed.
I just knew of them.
So I reached out to them and Ilearned everything I could.
I actually attended some oftheir programs to understand how
they use surfing as atherapeutic tool and it was very
different from the framework Ihave now for my surf therapy
company, but it gave me theinspiration, it gave me a sense
(06:35):
and a feeling.
Actually, when I participatedin one of their surf therapy
programs, it was also one of themost therapeutic things for
myself, having the elements ofthe water and the structure of
their therapy program.
And then people in my lifestarted to know that I wanted to
do this surf therapy thing.
But I was just staying stagnantand I think it was out of fear
or not having the trust in theprocess of how to get started.
(06:59):
And you know, just seems so somany factors to consider the
ocean and surfboards and what doI need to get started?
And people just kept telling me, just literally get one kid and
take them to the beach andthat's so.
Not in my nature.
I'm very much a planner and Iwant to see like four steps laid
out in front of me, which Iknow now you can't always see in
business necessarily and Ididn't want to start a business.
(07:22):
I want to have fun, I want tobe on the beach.
I started talking to providersletting them know, hey, I'm
starting this surf therapycompany for neurodiverse kids,
and so people started to know myname and I got a referral and I
took that kid to the beach.
From there it started to buildup very slowly and is now
becoming a business, which iswhy I laughed when you asked me,
(07:42):
because there was no plan toown a business.
But yeah, here I am and that'sthe trajectory for me.
Tanner Welsch (07:51):
I'm glad we're laughing about this whole
business concept, because evenfor me, with Rehab Rebels, it's
not okay.
You flip a switch and now youhave a full fledged business.
Well, how do you define abusiness right?
Is it the fact that I have anLLC or is it the fact that I got
my first net revenue from doingsome sort of business service?
You know, and there is no realabsolute, it's a long journey to
(08:13):
get something up and going surftherapy so you actually started
dipping your water into it punintended and trying it out,
feeling out, and then going andseeing what was out there that
people were offering andparticipating in that and
learning right Before we go onto what's next.
(08:33):
I'd love to know those memoriesthat you had of you know, in the
past or being younger with thewater and, like you mentioned,
in college or around college,you're doing this job that you
really loved and just wanted tobe able to be paid to do that.
You know, is that somethingthat came out from those maybe
deeper dive discussions withyour mentors and friends, or is
it something that you had alwaysremembered and kept in the back
of your mind and it it just was?
(08:55):
Oh yeah, I'm going to go dosomething with water, because
I've always wanted to dosomething with water.
Naomi Matanick (09:01):
Yeah, it was definitely me having the
memories and the thought processof always hoping to do
something with water.
And then I think it was theconversation with my friends and
my mentors that gave me, Iguess, the courage and the
knowledge or the leap to createsurf therapy which I shouldn't
say create surf there, because Idid not create and everyone
(09:22):
actually in my circles alwayssays, oh, did you come up with
that?
Definitely not.
And then, because I found outsurf therapy existed and I
started to learn about it fromamazing companies around the
United States and now around theworld, then I was able to say
hey, and I think, specificallyfor my background as a pediatric
, ot and sensory integration, Ithink surf therapy would be an
(09:45):
amazing therapeutic tool forthis population.
Let me just I have to go nowfigure out how to make that be
an amazing tool.
Tanner Welsch (09:53):
For sure and just so you get the right sense of
where you are with the businessitself.
You're just bootstrapping itand building it up.
You haven't switched full timeto doing this right.
Naomi Matanick (10:04):
Right, Not yet Almost and I know some people
you know I've heard it dependson your personality too, right?
I like to plan, but thenthere's also this part of my
personality that can be a littlebit the adrenaline, the risks,
and some people aren't going tobe like that.
Some people really need thisplan where they have it built
out.
I would a hundred percentrecommend being the person that
(10:25):
gets a plan and builds it out.
But it doesn't always work likethat.
And because for me, I didn'tknow, I wanted to start a
business and I'm just doing it.
But I am getting ready to makethat jump very soon, probably
within the next six months to ayear, where I'll be independent
in my own business.
Tanner Welsch (10:41):
Congratulations, naomi.
That's exciting.
We'll mark it or timestamp itas maybe before you got your
first patient, six months beforethat to when you got your first
patient, what was a big painpoint that you had at that time,
before even getting your firstpatient, about six months
somewhere in there and how didyou overcome that challenge?
Naomi Matanick (10:58):
I think, like I had said, the first big hurdle
was just fear.
Analysis paralysis is what Iwould maybe call it.
Thinking okay, how does thestructure of a surf therapy
session under my framework?
How do I even want that to look?
What beach do I go to?
What equipment do I use?
Obviously surfboards, but rightnow every surfboard is created
(11:20):
equally.
What's the age range?
Yeah, that was the biggestthing.
For me, that was the biggesthurdle was just fear and
overanalyzing.
I think a big thing wasthinking that it had to be
perfect.
When I did it the first time,when you go into therapy as a
new grad and you have your firstclient, no matter what the
setting is, I can tell you it'snot perfect.
I still remember my firstpatient I ever had as a new grad
(11:42):
and that was not perfect.
And but nobody thinks in atraditional setting, oh, I need
to go in and make this perfect.
But I had.
I guess there was that pressure.
I had so much pressure onmyself that maybe other people
weren't expecting or putting onme, that maybe even families
weren't putting on me, and maybethat was coming out of being a
more seasoned therapist andhaving those expectations of
(12:03):
what I wanted this session tolook like.
Tanner Welsch (12:06):
I'll inject some from my point of, from my
experience to doing this onlineentrepreneur stuff, put some
perspective on it, for where I'mat, I run into the same things.
You know there's a couple ofthings.
There's analysis is paralysisand wanting it to be perfect
when it goes out the first time.
And that was really hardstarting this, because super
difficult to really knoweverything to really well and be
(12:28):
able to implement a full,overall, complete, whatever it
is you're creating service orproduct, right, and what I had
realized was just really do thebest you can right now.
Don't overthink it, don'toveranalyze it.
Get something out there andthen over time you're going to
be working with this and it'sgoing to evolve.
And it's going to evolve andyou're going to cater it more to
(12:49):
your audience or your customers.
So that was interesting and Ithink many of us have come
across imposter syndrome.
I mean even being a physicaltherapist or an OT or a speech
path right, when you get out ofgrad school.
It's okay, kick you to thecurve, you're on your own now.
Naomi Matanick (13:07):
We're sure.
Yeah, imposter syndrome is abig one, those are huge, and you
know, like you said, whatdefines when you become a
business.
Because technically, I hadgotten an LLC in 2021.
But it was because thegovernment agency that I work
for I'm an independentcontractor and everyone's
required to have their ownbusiness license.
Enough that was also usefulthat I already had this business
(13:32):
license in place, even though Ididn't really want to be my own
business or care to be my ownbusiness.
And then in 2022, I had onesurfing kid and it wasn't really
till 2023 where I startedgetting more and building it up.
Tanner Welsch (13:43):
Okay, and that's.
That's where we're going withthe conversation.
I was wanting to know we talkedabout about six months before
you got your first patient.
What was it like six monthsafter?
So you plunged into the waternow, had at least at least one
patient, maybe more.
What was it?
Roughly six months.
If you need a little bit moretime, maybe six months to a year
after the first patient, butthat year might be too much,
(14:05):
because you probably learned alot.
What were you struggling witharound six months after the
first patient regardingbootstrapping this business and
getting it built out and how youwant?
Naomi Matanick (14:15):
Right right After having my first two
patients, I definitely waslearning so much more about the
framework of how I wanted tohave my surf therapy sessions be
run and in my head and I thinktruly, to be quite honest, it
was really bad the way Istructured the session the
surfboard I use the time of dayI picked on the beach.
(14:39):
So after that I saw anotherkiddo for the duration of that
summer and into the early falland I was continuing to refine
the actual process.
But then I think, six months toa year after when I really
started to put more weight andwork into it, a huge hurdle and
I would think six months to ayear after when I really started
to put more weight and workinto it, a huge hurdle and I
would say it's still a learningcurve is the marketing and
figuring out who do I networkwith, what do I say, how do I
(15:01):
get it to stick, and I'mlearning so much and I've
learned even so much more aboutthat.
But that was.
That's been a huge hurdle, tobe quite honest, and especially
when you're doing somethingnon-traditional and surf there
people will hear that term and,first of all, they don't even
know what it means and then toget them to understand why it
can be therapeutic and why itcan be beneficial.
Or I live in Los Angeles andgetting people to drive to the
(15:24):
beach in traffic right, it'slike another hurdle.
So that's one that I'mcontinuing to build out and
learn about.
And now I actually have abusiness coach that I've been
working with for the last threemonths and that's been immensely
helpful and just keeping meaccountable and helping me think
about the ins and outs ofstructuring a business.
Tanner Welsch (15:41):
For sure Business coach.
Do you mind sharing?
You know maybe a resource orhow you came across this
particular coach or I would loveto share her information.
Naomi Matanick (15:51):
Her name is Jen Potter, so I'm going to shout
out to her.
She lives in actually she livesin the East Coast, but we meet
over Zoom and I actually met herat a surf therapy conference
that I attended this pastDecember, and she also helps and
is on the board of a reallylarge surf therapy company in
Rhode Island called Gnome Surf,which is also another pediatric
surf therapy company, and sheruns and operates multiple
(16:15):
businesses, is on their board,and so it's been a great fit for
me because she understands theworld of surf therapy, she
definitely understands the worldof business and she goes on a
very gut-based model, listeningto your gut and, I would say my
personality and my businessbuilding has also been a lot of
okay.
I just feel like this is theright direction.
Tanner Welsch (16:34):
For sure, a hundred percent, all right.
So you came across herbasically attending these
different events through surfingand surf therapy, and that's
perfect, great way to networkand meet people.
And we're talking aboutsomething that I'm also going
through within Rehab Rebels andto give some you know maybe
example of if somebody iswanting to do something
(16:56):
non-traditional, there is a lotof logistics to figure out, as
you mentioned with your exampleearlier.
But one of the things, too, ispresenting it like a trial run
or a beta program, or this issomething I'm thinking about
doing.
You know, would you beinterested in working with me?
And I'm trying to say, astherapist to patient or, in this
particular example, like we'retalking about right, trying to
(17:17):
set it up to where they knowahead of time, okay, this isn't
completely built out A to Z,we're testing it out and that's
what I'm doing with Rehab Rebels, and you mentioned your gut.
So I'm wanting to work onputting together a mastermind
group and actually thinkingabout two mastermind groups, but
the first one is for rehabprivate practice owners and
(17:40):
bringing them together andcollaborating and talking and
being accountable resource foreach other and soundboard for
each other to talk about theirchallenges, and that's the you
know, the ones that have theirprivate practice and their
businesses.
Another group that I want toeventually see if there's
interest in is online healthentrepreneurship Rehab
professionals that havetransitioned into some sort of
(18:02):
online health entrepreneurshiprole and it's.
Let's just see if there'sinterest.
My gut is telling me there'ssomething here, because where
else are we going to get allthese awesome guests together
and have an opportunity topotentially bring them in these
mastermind groups to just growand learn from each other as
well?
You know, I'll stop, I'll getoff my little soapbox here and
get back to here.
Naomi Matanick (18:23):
Let me know when they're up and running.
It'd be incredible to justbounce ideas off of each other,
because it can get isolatingbounce ideas off of each other
because it can get isolating.
Tanner Welsch (18:34):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
We talked about six monthsafter.
And what about?
Where are you at now from thatfirst patient?
Are you a couple years out, orhow long have you been
bootstrapping?
For?
Let's do that.
How long have you been buildingthis out?
Because that'll help usunderstand too, what's your
investment of time before you'reeven able to go full time on
this thing.
Naomi Matanick (18:56):
Yeah, I mean everybody who's building their
own business.
It's going to look differentbecause it depends on the time.
You have the resources, youhave, I guess, your knowledge of
what it means to build abusiness.
And so for me, coming frombeing an occupational therapist,
coming from a very traditionalbackground, I had no knowledge
of business.
Still, I would argue that Ihave very little knowledge of
business.
I didn't build it out where Iwas having extra time to
(19:17):
dedicate to this, so it's takenme longer, which is what it is,
because really, from that firstpatient to that six months to
now, I feel like I've still beenbootstrapping it quite a bit,
but hopefully will be less andless.
But I don't anticipate that thatprocess is going to get super
easy I would hope in the nextyear or get easier.
(19:37):
It's getting easier, butthere's still been a lot of
extra dedicated time, forexample, not that this is what I
would recommend, but I work sixdays a week because I'm still
doing my part time governmentjob, which I'm finally dropping
down on, thank goodness, andI'll see kids in the water on
the weekends, outside oftraditional patient care and
(19:59):
note writing and everything thatgoes into being a traditional
therapist which we still have todo those things for surf
therapy right, but sometimesthere's a little more red tape
in the clinical traditionalsetting.
So I guess all of that to sayis I'm working extra hours right
for networking and meetings andmarketing and structuring.
So there's a still.
(20:20):
There's still a lot, but it'sdefinitely felt easier.
It's definitely starting tofeel more streamlined.
But I know that there's a lotto go.
Tanner Welsch (20:29):
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what's a good
analogy for basically getting upa business to running full time
.
You're creating something outof nothing and just working so
hard to get little incrementalthings.
I think planting a seed andwatering a plant is definitely
not a good enough analogy,because that's not too hard,
like you know what I mean.
Naomi Matanick (20:48):
Coming from someone who doesn't even like to
garden, I'm like, oh, I'll dothat.
Tanner Welsch (20:52):
Right.
Naomi Matanick (20:53):
I mean being a surf therapist.
I think of a wave and I don'tknow if you ever surf or you've
been in the ocean.
Tanner Welsch (20:59):
I have.
I would love to get better atsurfing, but I grew up and I
still live in Kansas.
I've lived other places, but Istill prefer this from the ocean
.
Right, yeah.
Naomi Matanick (21:08):
So heard this from the ocean, right, yeah.
So I mean I think of an analogy, of a wave and you know, maybe
on a big day in the ocean andyou're trying to get out past
the break, which is where thewaves crash, and there's been
days where I've been in theocean where you start paddling
out and just as you get to whereyou think you're going to get
out there into the ocean, thishuge wave comes and it literally
just flips you over, send youall the way halfway back to
(21:29):
shore right, and just flips youover, sends you all the way
halfway back to shore right.
And then you try and you do itagain.
And I mean that sounds horrible, but sometimes four steps
forward, boom, five steps back.
Tanner Welsch (21:37):
That's a great analogy.
I love that yeah.
Naomi Matanick (21:40):
I guess the positive spin is if you love it
enough, eventually you're goingto paddle out and you're going
to get over the wave, and that'swhat happens in surfing, right?
We love it enough that we don'tcare, we'll get beat up, we'll
get back out there again.
So you definitely have to loveit and be passionate about it,
because otherwise you're notgoing to want to put in the work
.
Tanner Welsch (21:55):
Absolutely, and I think a big part of it too that
shows in the analogy as well isnot giving up.
You're going to get hit back alot.
Naomi Matanick (22:03):
A lot to learn, a lot of techniques to develop,
just like in serving.
Tanner Welsch (22:08):
Absolutely.
What would you say were somefirst signs of traction?
Okay, this can legitimately bea business, this can work.
Was there something thathappened that?
Maybe it was after the firstpatient?
I don't know, but was there amoment or something you realized
?
Okay, yeah, I see this becomingsomething real and a business
that I can do.
Naomi Matanick (22:26):
I think that's also been not a concrete moment,
but it had something to do withwhen a little bit of traction
picked up with getting some moreclients and that even building
my confidence and getting betterat what I was doing in terms of
my own structure and frameworkwhen I was seeing kids on the
beach in the water.
So just getting a little bit ofa confidence boost, because
(22:48):
having the repetition of clientsand hours spent on the
repetition of clients and hoursspent on the beach doing it and
getting paid to do it which thatwas another shocker for me I
was wow, I can't believe I'mliterally getting paid to do
this and I'm so grateful forthese families for instilling
their trust in me.
And that was a big part of itLearning about other companies
that were doing what I'm doing,particularly with kids in
(23:10):
different parts of the UnitedStates, and then just getting
the buildup and the excitementof different medical providers
and mentors.
Yeah, it's been a really slowprocess of getting to that place
.
Tanner Welsch (23:23):
What has that been like?
Have you had some positivesupport from the general health
community, you know likehealthcare professional
community, or is it just ooh,what are you doing?
What do you think you're doingover here?
They don't think it'slegitimate.
I'm curious what you've runinto.
Naomi Matanick (23:40):
Yeah, you know it's been interesting because
there's a lot of positivesupport, but then I don't always
necessarily get those referralsand I think maybe it has could
have something to do with thatpositive support.
You know, I live in a place Ilive in Los Angeles where I
think people tend to think moreholistically in their medical
practice.
They live by the beach, maybethey've had some experiences
(24:02):
with surfing so they canconceptualize a little bit
easier.
Okay, I could see how thatcould be beneficial and
therapeutic, and so there'spositive support in that essence
, but I think still a little bitnot a little bit a lot of a
lack of education andunderstanding of what surf
therapy is and why can it reallyeven physically benefit a child
, just as being in a clinic.
And so I think that's sometimeswhere the gap happens is, you
(24:25):
know, there's all this passionand excitement but then not
enough understanding of what itis.
Tanner Welsch (24:31):
Yeah, what would you say is obvious to you now
that you maybe struggled to seein the moment.
It can be the traditionalsetting or it can be during that
time when you haven't startedyour side hustle or your
bootstrap in your business.
But you were thinking about it.
Can you share, maybe, somethingthat's more obvious and clear
to you now?
That really was just a strugglein the past.
Naomi Matanick (24:54):
I haven't really quite reached that point.
I mean, I'm sure there's thingswhere I'm oh yeah, I'm no
longer struggling with this, butthere's still so many things
I'm hurdles, I'm jumping overthat.
I don't think I've reallyreached that point.
But you know, but if I look atlittle successes and little wins
, I know I've talked a lot inthis interview about structuring
the session so that it'ssuccessful, which is really
(25:15):
creating your business model, sothat your business model comes
to life.
That was definitely something Istruggled with a lot in the
beginning and now it feels somuch more streamlined when
people used to ask me oh well,what does a typical surf therapy
session look like?
And I didn't have an answerbecause it hasn't happened yet.
Tanner Welsch (25:33):
For sure.
What do you love most aboutyour new reality?
Naomi Matanick (25:38):
Honestly that it fulfills me so much.
And you know, I did want tomake a point in saying this has
been the greatest path for me.
I think there's.
The traditional clinical pathcan be amazing and it's
definitely pertinent and stillneeded, but for me this is where
my passion lies and it fulfillsme.
And the adage that you're goingto have more freedom and time
(25:59):
in owning your own business isnot true in the beginning.
I don't know how it is later on, but I can tell you at the end
of the day, even if I'm supertired, I'll go out and I'll do
my surf sessions and I'm thehappiest person alive.
So I think just that itfulfills me.
Tanner Welsch (26:15):
I love that you followed that sense of yourself
or that sign or paid attentionto what fills you up.
I mean, I don't know about youbut like even for me throughout
times of my life, it's just Ihave forgotten what, whatever
that experience was, that didfill me up, because I'm so busy
just trying to do normal dailylife.
I think for me it's sometimesyou can forget what does fill
(26:36):
you up and then you're kind ofin that discovery phase again.
Well, man, I need to stop andreally think and then start
trying some things out andseeing what does fill me up.
And if you can turn that into abusiness where you love serving
that particular group of people, providing that particular
service, well hey, you mighthave something there, you know.
Naomi Matanick (26:57):
Yeah, exactly, it's important.
Tanner Welsch (27:00):
Yeah.
What are the best places tosurf in the United States?
Naomi Matanick (27:03):
Sadly, I haven't gotten to go to many places
outside of California because Ireally I started learning how to
surf when I moved to Californiafive years ago, so I can't
speak to outside of California.
But well, I will say there'sactually a wave pool in Waco
Waco Waco, texas.
I'm mispronouncing that and Ihaven't been there yet, but I
(27:25):
would love to go there becausethey create these perfect waves
based on your skill level.
So that would be a dream.
But in California definitelyyou're going to want to go more
north of the coast or south downthe coast.
There's some beautiful longwaves closer to San Diego,
closer to Santa Barbara.
La can be rough, but we've gotMalibu, which is nice.
Tanner Welsch (27:46):
I visited California years ago for the
first time around 2010 orsomething and we went to San
Luis Obispo and the waves that Isaw when I was in California I
was oh my God, these are thebiggest ones I think I've ever
seen.
It was crazy I mean, because Igot a little bit in the water
too and just how much force andpower they get right there I was
(28:08):
.
This is, this is wild.
Naomi Matanick (28:10):
Yeah, I mean they can get really big,
especially in the winter.
Tanner Welsch (28:15):
That brings up a follow-up question Wintertime
the business is surfing outside,so what's the plan in the
wintertime?
Naomi Matanick (28:21):
That's been a lot of unknowns.
So this year being my firstreally full year that I've been
running it, I was seeing kidsthrough the winter.
I'm still seeing kids throughthe winter, but that's been a
learning curve for me, becauseI'll get two or three families
that they say to me oh yeah, ourkids don't mind the cold at all
(28:43):
, we want to be in the waterlike all year round.
And then I'll have certainfamilies that really pay
attention to the temperaturesand then it gets hard because
they have scheduled five kids atthe beach.
And then one person hey, can wenot meet at the beach?
Because I actually have aclinic space where I'll rent
from a couple of days a week.
So when we really can't be onthe beach, if it's raining or
it's entirely too cold, we'vebeen there.
But then I'm pulled betweenthese families and these
personalities.
(29:03):
And so I talked to my businesscoach and another surf therapist
actually the owner of gnome inRhode Island and he was no, you
have to have a surf season.
So I'm like oh okay, I didn'tknow that.
Now I can proudly say that fromnow on my surf season will
start at.
Basically it's going to bestarting in the third week of
March and then it runs all theway through October and ends in
November, to which at that pointI'll switch to seeing kids in a
(29:25):
clinic space where, yeah, thetherapy is going to look a
little bit more traditional toOT, but I'm definitely
incorporating aspects of surfing.
So we're getting ready for oursurf season.
Tanner Welsch (29:35):
I love that, naomi.
For others that are in thetraditional setting right now
but they've experienced burnout,they know, you know this isn't
the long-term thing for them.
You know what sort of insightsor tips, advice, would you give
them for trying to figure outmaybe a non-traditional model,
that, but if that's the rightway to go down for them?
Or you know, if you canremember when you were around
(29:57):
that time, when you were there,what would you have told
yourself back then?
Or some just general, you knowadvice or what you have for
someone that's right there inthat journey of pivoting to
possibly something that'snon-traditional.
Naomi Matanick (30:11):
I think some advice I would give is, if
you're wanting or needing topivot to something that's not as
traditional, is justremembering that it doesn't have
to be a full fledged business,because I think, if it was
presented to me that the onlyway to not do this is you have
to create an entire business todo something else, because when
I got started, I was just happyto see kids in the water and I
(30:31):
didn't care if it was a businessor not.
So even just giving yourselfhours out of the week where you
get to go and do some sort ofwork that feels really
fulfilling to you can be a gamechanger.
Don't have that fear.
Just take the step which iseasier said than done and really
being honest with yourself.
It's okay.
I know it was hard for me to behonest with myself that I didn't
want to do this traditionalwork, at least not now, because
(30:53):
it's everything you've gone toschool for, you've spent so much
time.
It's really terrifying to havethis recognition of, oh, this
isn't fulfilling me.
What do I do now?
And then, from there, reallygoing after things passionately,
learning everything you canabout maybe the thing you're
passionate about?
As therapists, we have a lot ofskill set If you want to keep
doing therapy but you want to doit in a different setting.
(31:15):
There's so many areas of needfor families and adults and kids
that you can really create yourown bubble based on what you're
passionate about, becausewhatever you're passionate about
is going to be the mostsuccessful for the world.
Tanner Welsch (31:30):
Yeah, and there's a niche around there.
Once you figure out what thatis, there'll be a group of
people or I'm sure that you'vediscovered as well with the surf
therapy that they're reallydigging it and into it too, so
that community and network helpsa lot as well.
Once you figure it out, naomi,this has been great.
Do you have anything else thatyou would like to add before we
(31:51):
end our interview today?
Naomi Matanick (31:54):
Really truly go after what makes you fulfilled
and it's worth it, and I'm hereif you will have any questions
about the journey.
Tanner Welsch (32:03):
For sure.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show and sharing your story
.
Loved it.
Take care.
Intro (32:09):
You too.
Thank you for listening to theRehab Rebels podcast.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
For more information abouttransitioning to alternative
careers, head to rehabrebelsorgor follow us on Instagram at
rehabrebelspodcast.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Rehab Rebels podcast.
Are you a rehab professionalready to transition to an
alternative career?
Hear inspiring stories fromothers just like you and learn
the best ways to bridge yourcareer gap.
This podcast has you covered.
Now here's your host, doctor ofphysical therapy and podcaster,
Tanner Welsh.
Tanner Welsch (00:20):
Welcome back to Rehab Rebels.
Today's guest is Naomi Matnick.
She grew up in Kentucky,malaysia and Ohio and attended
the University of Finley inFinley, ohio, and she's
currently working for agovernment agency which offers
therapy to the earlyintervention population, and
she's also building out her surftherapy company for
(00:42):
neurodiverse kids, woo.
So welcome to the show, naomi.
She's also building out hersurf therapy company for
neurodiverse kids.
Woohoo, yeah, so welcome to theshow, naomi.
Naomi Matanick (00:48):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, Tanner, forhaving me.
Tanner Welsch (00:51):
Love having you come on the show and my manager
mentioned you.
She was super stoked andexcited too.
She's doing surf and physicaltherapy Like what?
Educational therapy Educationaltherapy, yeah, and I've never
heard of any of the therapistsdoing that.
So we really got to reach outand get her on the show and just
talk about her story and howshe's doing this, you know.
(01:13):
So I'd love to get a little bitof introduction into that gap
really between when yougraduated from OT school and
then before you really startedtaking off or maybe even thought
about the whole surf therapy,occupational therapy thing.
What were some of thetraditional settings that you
were in?
And then we'll get into thequestions of okay, why wasn't
(01:34):
this for you?
Naomi Matanick (01:35):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I've been an occupationaltherapist for almost eight years
, so there been a large periodof time where I worked in
traditional settings.
I've worked in pediatrics, themajority of my time as an OT, a
little bit of time working inadult populations, and have
worked in outpatient clinics forkids, nursing homes, hospitals,
(02:00):
home health, for both adultsand kids.
But through that time, you knowmy primary passion has always
been kids.
You know, if I've ever spenttime working with adults, no
matter the setting, I alwaysreturn to being the most
passionate about working withkids, particularly a model
called sensory integration,which is a model that really
(02:20):
looks at how, if we organize andmature our nervous system, how
that impacts our function andour participation in our
day-to-day life.
I've had some amazing mentorsworking in those spaces.
I learned so much clinicallythat I really needed to really
have a solid foundation for whatI'm launching into right now.
(02:42):
But I think the thing thatreally made me think okay, I
need to make a shift, I need todo something different, was a
couple of things.
Personally, I felt that I wasgetting burnt out by my caseload
.
Yeah, it was just too much forme personally of having multiple
cases a day and, I guess,maintaining what I thought to be
(03:06):
good patient care and also justfor my own mental health, and
being able to maintain that andhave a balance in my energy
level.
And have always loved the water, have always seen it as a
therapeutic space for myself.
I'd always wished that I coulddo something with the water
related to my work, but I didn'tknow how or what that was.
(03:27):
And then, in 2020, I discoveredthat surf therapy existed and I
was so stoked and could notbelieve it, and I guess the rest
is history from there.
Tanner Welsch (03:39):
For sure.
So it sounds like you triedseveral settings.
You know traditional settingsas you were going through before
you got where you are now andyou mentioned burnout, going
from the traditional setting tofirst discovering this surf
therapy.
To me that seems a transitionpoint or definitely a big pain
point.
How did you know where to go,what to do next or what you were
(04:03):
doing in the traditional modelyou know, especially for the
majority, is not really workingand the burnout's just not going
to work out long term.
So it's really that discoveryphase of how do I decide what to
do next?
What fills my cup.
Can you explain a little bitmore about how that was for you
with going down this surftrajectory, with where you're at
(04:24):
?
Naomi Matanick (04:26):
Yeah, no, I mean I can get into that.
I'm laughing because I don'tthink I ever intended to start a
business.
You know, water has always beena part of my life.
Like I mentioned, in college Iworked a job on the beach where
I basically rented kayaks out totourists and would push them
into the water and just doingthat all day long.
I even thought at that point Ithought, man, if I could do this
(04:48):
job a real job I would be sohappy.
And then, out of college, thefirst clinic I worked at during
the summer is my boss wouldactually lead this kayaking
program for the kids in ourclinic and I would go out to the
lake on a Tuesday night afterwe had worked a full day and do
an hour long program with allthese kids in the clinic.
And I would go out to the lakeon a Tuesday night after we had
worked a full day and do an hourlong program with all these
kids in the water.
(05:09):
And it didn't matter to me thatI had worked a full day.
I would get to that lake and beon the water with the kids and
it was honestly the best part ofmy week.
Then, you know, I went backinto clinic space full time.
And as I was reaching thatburnout point for myself, you
know, I was talking to someclose friends, talking to some
mentors, and really, quitehonestly, I thought I would
(05:31):
maybe leave OT because it justwas taking too much of a toll on
my own personal health.
And one of my mentors was hey,wait a minute, you have all this
knowledge, do you think there'ssomething that you can still
apply it to?
And I told her oh well, youknow, I learned about this thing
called surf therapy and I thinkit's really cool, and you know
(05:51):
she's okay.
Well, why don't you try doingsomething like that?
I always say to people okay, Iknow how to be a therapist, I
know how to be a surfer myself,but, like you're saying, how do
I turn this into therapy and ajob?
And, you know, make those twoworlds merge.
And so I did reach out to asurf therapy company that
focuses on mental health forwomen, but at the time I didn't
(06:14):
know that other surf therapycompanies existed.
I just knew of them.
So I reached out to them and Ilearned everything I could.
I actually attended some oftheir programs to understand how
they use surfing as atherapeutic tool and it was very
different from the framework Ihave now for my surf therapy
company, but it gave me theinspiration, it gave me a sense
(06:35):
and a feeling.
Actually, when I participatedin one of their surf therapy
programs, it was also one of themost therapeutic things for
myself, having the elements ofthe water and the structure of
their therapy program.
And then people in my lifestarted to know that I wanted to
do this surf therapy thing.
But I was just staying stagnantand I think it was out of fear
or not having the trust in theprocess of how to get started.
(06:59):
And you know, just seems so somany factors to consider the
ocean and surfboards and what doI need to get started?
And people just kept telling me, just literally get one kid and
take them to the beach andthat's so.
Not in my nature.
I'm very much a planner and Iwant to see like four steps laid
out in front of me, which Iknow now you can't always see in
business necessarily and Ididn't want to start a business.
(07:22):
I want to have fun, I want tobe on the beach.
I started talking to providersletting them know, hey, I'm
starting this surf therapycompany for neurodiverse kids,
and so people started to know myname and I got a referral and I
took that kid to the beach.
From there it started to buildup very slowly and is now
becoming a business, which iswhy I laughed when you asked me,
(07:42):
because there was no plan toown a business.
But yeah, here I am and that'sthe trajectory for me.
Tanner Welsch (07:51):
I'm glad we're laughing about this whole
business concept, because evenfor me, with Rehab Rebels, it's
not okay.
You flip a switch and now youhave a full fledged business.
Well, how do you define abusiness right?
Is it the fact that I have anLLC or is it the fact that I got
my first net revenue from doingsome sort of business service?
You know, and there is no realabsolute, it's a long journey to
(08:13):
get something up and going surftherapy so you actually started
dipping your water into it punintended and trying it out,
feeling out, and then going andseeing what was out there that
people were offering andparticipating in that and
learning right Before we go onto what's next.
(08:33):
I'd love to know those memoriesthat you had of you know, in the
past or being younger with thewater and, like you mentioned,
in college or around college,you're doing this job that you
really loved and just wanted tobe able to be paid to do that.
You know, is that somethingthat came out from those maybe
deeper dive discussions withyour mentors and friends, or is
it something that you had alwaysremembered and kept in the back
of your mind and it it just was?
(08:55):
Oh yeah, I'm going to go dosomething with water, because
I've always wanted to dosomething with water.
Naomi Matanick (09:01):
Yeah, it was definitely me having the
memories and the thought processof always hoping to do
something with water.
And then I think it was theconversation with my friends and
my mentors that gave me, Iguess, the courage and the
knowledge or the leap to createsurf therapy which I shouldn't
say create surf there, because Idid not create and everyone
(09:22):
actually in my circles alwayssays, oh, did you come up with
that?
Definitely not.
And then, because I found outsurf therapy existed and I
started to learn about it fromamazing companies around the
United States and now around theworld, then I was able to say
hey, and I think, specificallyfor my background as a pediatric
, ot and sensory integration, Ithink surf therapy would be an
(09:45):
amazing therapeutic tool forthis population.
Let me just I have to go nowfigure out how to make that be
an amazing tool.
Tanner Welsch (09:53):
For sure and just so you get the right sense of
where you are with the businessitself.
You're just bootstrapping itand building it up.
You haven't switched full timeto doing this right.
Naomi Matanick (10:04):
Right, Not yet Almost and I know some people
you know I've heard it dependson your personality too, right?
I like to plan, but thenthere's also this part of my
personality that can be a littlebit the adrenaline, the risks,
and some people aren't going tobe like that.
Some people really need thisplan where they have it built
out.
I would a hundred percentrecommend being the person that
(10:25):
gets a plan and builds it out.
But it doesn't always work likethat.
And because for me, I didn'tknow, I wanted to start a
business and I'm just doing it.
But I am getting ready to makethat jump very soon, probably
within the next six months to ayear, where I'll be independent
in my own business.
Tanner Welsch (10:41):
Congratulations, naomi.
That's exciting.
We'll mark it or timestamp itas maybe before you got your
first patient, six months beforethat to when you got your first
patient, what was a big painpoint that you had at that time,
before even getting your firstpatient, about six months
somewhere in there and how didyou overcome that challenge?
Naomi Matanick (10:58):
I think, like I had said, the first big hurdle
was just fear.
Analysis paralysis is what Iwould maybe call it.
Thinking okay, how does thestructure of a surf therapy
session under my framework?
How do I even want that to look?
What beach do I go to?
What equipment do I use?
Obviously surfboards, but rightnow every surfboard is created
(11:20):
equally.
What's the age range?
Yeah, that was the biggestthing.
For me, that was the biggesthurdle was just fear and
overanalyzing.
I think a big thing wasthinking that it had to be
perfect.
When I did it the first time,when you go into therapy as a
new grad and you have your firstclient, no matter what the
setting is, I can tell you it'snot perfect.
I still remember my firstpatient I ever had as a new grad
(11:42):
and that was not perfect.
And but nobody thinks in atraditional setting, oh, I need
to go in and make this perfect.
But I had.
I guess there was that pressure.
I had so much pressure onmyself that maybe other people
weren't expecting or putting onme, that maybe even families
weren't putting on me, and maybethat was coming out of being a
more seasoned therapist andhaving those expectations of
(12:03):
what I wanted this session tolook like.
Tanner Welsch (12:06):
I'll inject some from my point of, from my
experience to doing this onlineentrepreneur stuff, put some
perspective on it, for where I'mat, I run into the same things.
You know there's a couple ofthings.
There's analysis is paralysisand wanting it to be perfect
when it goes out the first time.
And that was really hardstarting this, because super
difficult to really knoweverything to really well and be
(12:28):
able to implement a full,overall, complete, whatever it
is you're creating service orproduct, right, and what I had
realized was just really do thebest you can right now.
Don't overthink it, don'toveranalyze it.
Get something out there andthen over time you're going to
be working with this and it'sgoing to evolve.
And it's going to evolve andyou're going to cater it more to
(12:49):
your audience or your customers.
So that was interesting and Ithink many of us have come
across imposter syndrome.
I mean even being a physicaltherapist or an OT or a speech
path right, when you get out ofgrad school.
It's okay, kick you to thecurve, you're on your own now.
Naomi Matanick (13:07):
We're sure.
Yeah, imposter syndrome is abig one, those are huge, and you
know, like you said, whatdefines when you become a
business.
Because technically, I hadgotten an LLC in 2021.
But it was because thegovernment agency that I work
for I'm an independentcontractor and everyone's
required to have their ownbusiness license.
Enough that was also usefulthat I already had this business
(13:32):
license in place, even though Ididn't really want to be my own
business or care to be my ownbusiness.
And then in 2022, I had onesurfing kid and it wasn't really
till 2023 where I startedgetting more and building it up.
Tanner Welsch (13:43):
Okay, and that's.
That's where we're going withthe conversation.
I was wanting to know we talkedabout about six months before
you got your first patient.
What was it like six monthsafter?
So you plunged into the waternow, had at least at least one
patient, maybe more.
What was it?
Roughly six months.
If you need a little bit moretime, maybe six months to a year
after the first patient, butthat year might be too much,
(14:05):
because you probably learned alot.
What were you struggling witharound six months after the
first patient regardingbootstrapping this business and
getting it built out and how youwant?
Naomi Matanick (14:15):
Right right After having my first two
patients, I definitely waslearning so much more about the
framework of how I wanted tohave my surf therapy sessions be
run and in my head and I thinktruly, to be quite honest, it
was really bad the way Istructured the session the
surfboard I use the time of dayI picked on the beach.
(14:39):
So after that I saw anotherkiddo for the duration of that
summer and into the early falland I was continuing to refine
the actual process.
But then I think, six months toa year after when I really
started to put more weight andwork into it, a huge hurdle and
I would think six months to ayear after when I really started
to put more weight and workinto it, a huge hurdle and I
would say it's still a learningcurve is the marketing and
figuring out who do I networkwith, what do I say, how do I
(15:01):
get it to stick, and I'mlearning so much and I've
learned even so much more aboutthat.
But that was.
That's been a huge hurdle, tobe quite honest, and especially
when you're doing somethingnon-traditional and surf there
people will hear that term and,first of all, they don't even
know what it means and then toget them to understand why it
can be therapeutic and why itcan be beneficial.
Or I live in Los Angeles andgetting people to drive to the
(15:24):
beach in traffic right, it'slike another hurdle.
So that's one that I'mcontinuing to build out and
learn about.
And now I actually have abusiness coach that I've been
working with for the last threemonths and that's been immensely
helpful and just keeping meaccountable and helping me think
about the ins and outs ofstructuring a business.
Tanner Welsch (15:41):
For sure Business coach.
Do you mind sharing?
You know maybe a resource orhow you came across this
particular coach or I would loveto share her information.
Naomi Matanick (15:51):
Her name is Jen Potter, so I'm going to shout
out to her.
She lives in actually she livesin the East Coast, but we meet
over Zoom and I actually met herat a surf therapy conference
that I attended this pastDecember, and she also helps and
is on the board of a reallylarge surf therapy company in
Rhode Island called Gnome Surf,which is also another pediatric
surf therapy company, and sheruns and operates multiple
(16:15):
businesses, is on their board,and so it's been a great fit for
me because she understands theworld of surf therapy, she
definitely understands the worldof business and she goes on a
very gut-based model, listeningto your gut and, I would say my
personality and my businessbuilding has also been a lot of
okay.
I just feel like this is theright direction.
Tanner Welsch (16:34):
For sure, a hundred percent, all right.
So you came across herbasically attending these
different events through surfingand surf therapy, and that's
perfect, great way to networkand meet people.
And we're talking aboutsomething that I'm also going
through within Rehab Rebels andto give some you know maybe
example of if somebody iswanting to do something
(16:56):
non-traditional, there is a lotof logistics to figure out, as
you mentioned with your exampleearlier.
But one of the things, too, ispresenting it like a trial run
or a beta program, or this issomething I'm thinking about
doing.
You know, would you beinterested in working with me?
And I'm trying to say, astherapist to patient or, in this
particular example, like we'retalking about right, trying to
(17:17):
set it up to where they knowahead of time, okay, this isn't
completely built out A to Z,we're testing it out and that's
what I'm doing with Rehab Rebels, and you mentioned your gut.
So I'm wanting to work onputting together a mastermind
group and actually thinkingabout two mastermind groups, but
the first one is for rehabprivate practice owners and
(17:40):
bringing them together andcollaborating and talking and
being accountable resource foreach other and soundboard for
each other to talk about theirchallenges, and that's the you
know, the ones that have theirprivate practice and their
businesses.
Another group that I want toeventually see if there's
interest in is online healthentrepreneurship Rehab
professionals that havetransitioned into some sort of
(18:02):
online health entrepreneurshiprole and it's.
Let's just see if there'sinterest.
My gut is telling me there'ssomething here, because where
else are we going to get allthese awesome guests together
and have an opportunity topotentially bring them in these
mastermind groups to just growand learn from each other as
well?
You know, I'll stop, I'll getoff my little soapbox here and
get back to here.
Naomi Matanick (18:23):
Let me know when they're up and running.
It'd be incredible to justbounce ideas off of each other,
because it can get isolatingbounce ideas off of each other
because it can get isolating.
Tanner Welsch (18:34):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
We talked about six monthsafter.
And what about?
Where are you at now from thatfirst patient?
Are you a couple years out, orhow long have you been
bootstrapping?
For?
Let's do that.
How long have you been buildingthis out?
Because that'll help usunderstand too, what's your
investment of time before you'reeven able to go full time on
this thing.
Naomi Matanick (18:56):
Yeah, I mean everybody who's building their
own business.
It's going to look differentbecause it depends on the time.
You have the resources, youhave, I guess, your knowledge of
what it means to build abusiness.
And so for me, coming frombeing an occupational therapist,
coming from a very traditionalbackground, I had no knowledge
of business.
Still, I would argue that Ihave very little knowledge of
business.
I didn't build it out where Iwas having extra time to
(19:17):
dedicate to this, so it's takenme longer, which is what it is,
because really, from that firstpatient to that six months to
now, I feel like I've still beenbootstrapping it quite a bit,
but hopefully will be less andless.
But I don't anticipate that thatprocess is going to get super
easy I would hope in the nextyear or get easier.
(19:37):
It's getting easier, butthere's still been a lot of
extra dedicated time, forexample, not that this is what I
would recommend, but I work sixdays a week because I'm still
doing my part time governmentjob, which I'm finally dropping
down on, thank goodness, andI'll see kids in the water on
the weekends, outside oftraditional patient care and
(19:59):
note writing and everything thatgoes into being a traditional
therapist which we still have todo those things for surf
therapy right, but sometimesthere's a little more red tape
in the clinical traditionalsetting.
So I guess all of that to sayis I'm working extra hours right
for networking and meetings andmarketing and structuring.
So there's a still.
(20:20):
There's still a lot, but it'sdefinitely felt easier.
It's definitely starting tofeel more streamlined.
But I know that there's a lotto go.
Tanner Welsch (20:29):
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what's a good
analogy for basically getting upa business to running full time
.
You're creating something outof nothing and just working so
hard to get little incrementalthings.
I think planting a seed andwatering a plant is definitely
not a good enough analogy,because that's not too hard,
like you know what I mean.
Naomi Matanick (20:48):
Coming from someone who doesn't even like to
garden, I'm like, oh, I'll dothat.
Tanner Welsch (20:52):
Right.
Naomi Matanick (20:53):
I mean being a surf therapist.
I think of a wave and I don'tknow if you ever surf or you've
been in the ocean.
Tanner Welsch (20:59):
I have.
I would love to get better atsurfing, but I grew up and I
still live in Kansas.
I've lived other places, but Istill prefer this from the ocean
.
Right, yeah.
Naomi Matanick (21:08):
So heard this from the ocean, right, yeah.
So I mean I think of an analogy, of a wave and you know, maybe
on a big day in the ocean andyou're trying to get out past
the break, which is where thewaves crash, and there's been
days where I've been in theocean where you start paddling
out and just as you get to whereyou think you're going to get
out there into the ocean, thishuge wave comes and it literally
just flips you over, send youall the way halfway back to
(21:29):
shore right, and just flips youover, sends you all the way
halfway back to shore right.
And then you try and you do itagain.
And I mean that sounds horrible, but sometimes four steps
forward, boom, five steps back.
Tanner Welsch (21:37):
That's a great analogy.
I love that yeah.
Naomi Matanick (21:40):
I guess the positive spin is if you love it
enough, eventually you're goingto paddle out and you're going
to get over the wave, and that'swhat happens in surfing, right?
We love it enough that we don'tcare, we'll get beat up, we'll
get back out there again.
So you definitely have to loveit and be passionate about it,
because otherwise you're notgoing to want to put in the work
.
Tanner Welsch (21:55):
Absolutely, and I think a big part of it too that
shows in the analogy as well isnot giving up.
You're going to get hit back alot.
Naomi Matanick (22:03):
A lot to learn, a lot of techniques to develop,
just like in serving.
Tanner Welsch (22:08):
Absolutely.
What would you say were somefirst signs of traction?
Okay, this can legitimately bea business, this can work.
Was there something thathappened that?
Maybe it was after the firstpatient?
I don't know, but was there amoment or something you realized
?
Okay, yeah, I see this becomingsomething real and a business
that I can do.
Naomi Matanick (22:26):
I think that's also been not a concrete moment,
but it had something to do withwhen a little bit of traction
picked up with getting some moreclients and that even building
my confidence and getting betterat what I was doing in terms of
my own structure and frameworkwhen I was seeing kids on the
beach in the water.
So just getting a little bit ofa confidence boost, because
(22:48):
having the repetition of clientsand hours spent on the
repetition of clients and hoursspent on the beach doing it and
getting paid to do it which thatwas another shocker for me I
was wow, I can't believe I'mliterally getting paid to do
this and I'm so grateful forthese families for instilling
their trust in me.
And that was a big part of itLearning about other companies
that were doing what I'm doing,particularly with kids in
(23:10):
different parts of the UnitedStates, and then just getting
the buildup and the excitementof different medical providers
and mentors.
Yeah, it's been a really slowprocess of getting to that place
.
Tanner Welsch (23:23):
What has that been like?
Have you had some positivesupport from the general health
community, you know likehealthcare professional
community, or is it just ooh,what are you doing?
What do you think you're doingover here?
They don't think it'slegitimate.
I'm curious what you've runinto.
Naomi Matanick (23:40):
Yeah, you know it's been interesting because
there's a lot of positivesupport, but then I don't always
necessarily get those referralsand I think maybe it has could
have something to do with thatpositive support.
You know, I live in a place Ilive in Los Angeles where I
think people tend to think moreholistically in their medical
practice.
They live by the beach, maybethey've had some experiences
(24:02):
with surfing so they canconceptualize a little bit
easier.
Okay, I could see how thatcould be beneficial and
therapeutic, and so there'spositive support in that essence
, but I think still a little bitnot a little bit a lot of a
lack of education andunderstanding of what surf
therapy is and why can it reallyeven physically benefit a child
, just as being in a clinic.
And so I think that's sometimeswhere the gap happens is, you
(24:25):
know, there's all this passionand excitement but then not
enough understanding of what itis.
Tanner Welsch (24:31):
Yeah, what would you say is obvious to you now
that you maybe struggled to seein the moment.
It can be the traditionalsetting or it can be during that
time when you haven't startedyour side hustle or your
bootstrap in your business.
But you were thinking about it.
Can you share, maybe, somethingthat's more obvious and clear
to you now?
That really was just a strugglein the past.
Naomi Matanick (24:54):
I haven't really quite reached that point.
I mean, I'm sure there's thingswhere I'm oh yeah, I'm no
longer struggling with this, butthere's still so many things
I'm hurdles, I'm jumping overthat.
I don't think I've reallyreached that point.
But you know, but if I look atlittle successes and little wins
, I know I've talked a lot inthis interview about structuring
the session so that it'ssuccessful, which is really
(25:15):
creating your business model, sothat your business model comes
to life.
That was definitely something Istruggled with a lot in the
beginning and now it feels somuch more streamlined when
people used to ask me oh well,what does a typical surf therapy
session look like?
And I didn't have an answerbecause it hasn't happened yet.
Tanner Welsch (25:33):
For sure.
What do you love most aboutyour new reality?
Naomi Matanick (25:38):
Honestly that it fulfills me so much.
And you know, I did want tomake a point in saying this has
been the greatest path for me.
I think there's.
The traditional clinical pathcan be amazing and it's
definitely pertinent and stillneeded, but for me this is where
my passion lies and it fulfillsme.
And the adage that you're goingto have more freedom and time
(25:59):
in owning your own business isnot true in the beginning.
I don't know how it is later on, but I can tell you at the end
of the day, even if I'm supertired, I'll go out and I'll do
my surf sessions and I'm thehappiest person alive.
So I think just that itfulfills me.
Tanner Welsch (26:15):
I love that you followed that sense of yourself
or that sign or paid attentionto what fills you up.
I mean, I don't know about youbut like even for me throughout
times of my life, it's just Ihave forgotten what, whatever
that experience was, that didfill me up, because I'm so busy
just trying to do normal dailylife.
I think for me it's sometimesyou can forget what does fill
(26:36):
you up and then you're kind ofin that discovery phase again.
Well, man, I need to stop andreally think and then start
trying some things out andseeing what does fill me up.
And if you can turn that into abusiness where you love serving
that particular group of people, providing that particular
service, well hey, you mighthave something there, you know.
Naomi Matanick (26:57):
Yeah, exactly, it's important.
Tanner Welsch (27:00):
Yeah.
What are the best places tosurf in the United States?
Naomi Matanick (27:03):
Sadly, I haven't gotten to go to many places
outside of California because Ireally I started learning how to
surf when I moved to Californiafive years ago, so I can't
speak to outside of California.
But well, I will say there'sactually a wave pool in Waco
Waco Waco, texas.
I'm mispronouncing that and Ihaven't been there yet, but I
(27:25):
would love to go there becausethey create these perfect waves
based on your skill level.
So that would be a dream.
But in California definitelyyou're going to want to go more
north of the coast or south downthe coast.
There's some beautiful longwaves closer to San Diego,
closer to Santa Barbara.
La can be rough, but we've gotMalibu, which is nice.
Tanner Welsch (27:46):
I visited California years ago for the
first time around 2010 orsomething and we went to San
Luis Obispo and the waves that Isaw when I was in California I
was oh my God, these are thebiggest ones I think I've ever
seen.
It was crazy I mean, because Igot a little bit in the water
too and just how much force andpower they get right there I was
(28:08):
.
This is, this is wild.
Naomi Matanick (28:10):
Yeah, I mean they can get really big,
especially in the winter.
Tanner Welsch (28:15):
That brings up a follow-up question Wintertime
the business is surfing outside,so what's the plan in the
wintertime?
Naomi Matanick (28:21):
That's been a lot of unknowns.
So this year being my firstreally full year that I've been
running it, I was seeing kidsthrough the winter.
I'm still seeing kids throughthe winter, but that's been a
learning curve for me, becauseI'll get two or three families
that they say to me oh yeah, ourkids don't mind the cold at all
(28:43):
, we want to be in the waterlike all year round.
And then I'll have certainfamilies that really pay
attention to the temperaturesand then it gets hard because
they have scheduled five kids atthe beach.
And then one person hey, can wenot meet at the beach?
Because I actually have aclinic space where I'll rent
from a couple of days a week.
So when we really can't be onthe beach, if it's raining or
it's entirely too cold, we'vebeen there.
But then I'm pulled betweenthese families and these
personalities.
(29:03):
And so I talked to my businesscoach and another surf therapist
actually the owner of gnome inRhode Island and he was no, you
have to have a surf season.
So I'm like oh okay, I didn'tknow that.
Now I can proudly say that fromnow on my surf season will
start at.
Basically it's going to bestarting in the third week of
March and then it runs all theway through October and ends in
November, to which at that pointI'll switch to seeing kids in a
(29:25):
clinic space where, yeah, thetherapy is going to look a
little bit more traditional toOT, but I'm definitely
incorporating aspects of surfing.
So we're getting ready for oursurf season.
Tanner Welsch (29:35):
I love that, naomi.
For others that are in thetraditional setting right now
but they've experienced burnout,they know, you know this isn't
the long-term thing for them.
You know what sort of insightsor tips, advice, would you give
them for trying to figure outmaybe a non-traditional model,
that, but if that's the rightway to go down for them?
Or you know, if you canremember when you were around
(29:57):
that time, when you were there,what would you have told
yourself back then?
Or some just general, you knowadvice or what you have for
someone that's right there inthat journey of pivoting to
possibly something that'snon-traditional.
Naomi Matanick (30:11):
I think some advice I would give is, if
you're wanting or needing topivot to something that's not as
traditional, is justremembering that it doesn't have
to be a full fledged business,because I think, if it was
presented to me that the onlyway to not do this is you have
to create an entire business todo something else, because when
I got started, I was just happyto see kids in the water and I
(30:31):
didn't care if it was a businessor not.
So even just giving yourselfhours out of the week where you
get to go and do some sort ofwork that feels really
fulfilling to you can be a gamechanger.
Don't have that fear.
Just take the step which iseasier said than done and really
being honest with yourself.
It's okay.
I know it was hard for me to behonest with myself that I didn't
want to do this traditionalwork, at least not now, because
(30:53):
it's everything you've gone toschool for, you've spent so much
time.
It's really terrifying to havethis recognition of, oh, this
isn't fulfilling me.
What do I do now?
And then, from there, reallygoing after things passionately,
learning everything you canabout maybe the thing you're
passionate about?
As therapists, we have a lot ofskill set If you want to keep
doing therapy but you want to doit in a different setting.
(31:15):
There's so many areas of needfor families and adults and kids
that you can really create yourown bubble based on what you're
passionate about, becausewhatever you're passionate about
is going to be the mostsuccessful for the world.
Tanner Welsch (31:30):
Yeah, and there's a niche around there.
Once you figure out what thatis, there'll be a group of
people or I'm sure that you'vediscovered as well with the surf
therapy that they're reallydigging it and into it too, so
that community and network helpsa lot as well.
Once you figure it out, naomi,this has been great.
Do you have anything else thatyou would like to add before we
(31:51):
end our interview today?
Naomi Matanick (31:54):
Really truly go after what makes you fulfilled
and it's worth it, and I'm hereif you will have any questions
about the journey.
Tanner Welsch (32:03):
For sure.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show and sharing your story
.
Loved it.
Take care.
Intro (32:09):
You too.
Thank you for listening to theRehab Rebels podcast.
If this podcast was useful,make sure to hit that subscribe
button and leave a review.
For more information abouttransitioning to alternative
careers, head to rehabrebelsorgor follow us on Instagram at
rehabrebelspodcast.
We'll see you next time.
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