October 27, 2025 • 26 mins
What if your hardest seasons became the fuel for your most meaningful work? In this episode, journalist and novelist John DeDakis shares how loss, discipline, and truth shaped his purpose.
John’s path started at American Forces Network in Germany, where he interviewed Alfred Hitchcock. From there, he moved through local news and on to CNN, where the nonstop pace demanded a creative outlet. Fiction became that outlet. His first novel took ten years, fourteen rewrites, and thirty-nine agent queries. The lesson: cut weak subplots, find your genre through subtraction, and treat reflection as part of the writing process.
He speaks plainly about modern media. The press and the White House often work in tension. Speed often beats truth. Integrity in reporting is harder to maintain when accuracy loses to attention. Those same tensions shape his thriller Fake, where a reporter’s reputation is destroyed by a lie everyone can see.
The heart of the conversation is writing through pain. John shares how early trauma and the loss of his son became the foundation for honest and healing work. He explains how writing can process grief, rebuild focus, and restore meaning. Leaders and teams face the same truth—unresolved pain drains morale and performance.
If you want to reconnect with your purpose, finish your story, or bring meaning to hard experiences, this episode gives you practical direction. Follow the show, share it with someone who needs perspective, and leave a review to help others find it.
@dedakisjohn
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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.
Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Welcome to another episode of Reignite Resilience.
I am your co-host, NatalieDavis, and I'm so excited to be
back with all of you today.
And joining me is your co-host,Pam Cass.
Hello, Pam.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
I am fantastic.
Not only is it a Friday, butit's a Friday getting to not
only record a podcast, but alsohave an incredible guest.
And yes, it's been it's been agreat week.
I'll share with the listeners.
So I had one of my neighborsclick a picture of our book that
she ordered on Amazon.
(01:13):
And she read it because it's ait's a fairly quick, easy read.
Um, she read it and told me thatshe's ordered a whole bunch of
copies to give as gifts topeople.
I love this.
Yes, basically cool.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
It is.
Oh my gosh.
We've got we're gonna continueto give updates as that
progresses.
And if you all have not had achance to go over to Amazon and
pick up the book, click the linkin the show notes.
We will make sure that you canget directly over there, get
your copy, or if you want it asan ebook, download it to your
e-reading device.
I don't do ebooks, so I'm notsure what those device Kindles I
(01:48):
think are still a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
I I did Kindles until the time I was lying in
bed reading it and I was holdingit above my head and I must have
fallen asleep and I dropped theKindle on my face.
That hurts a lot more thandropping a book on your face.
So I no longer use a Kindle.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
That's out.
Done.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Know your limits.
Know my limits.
So um, yes, this is this is whathappens.
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
Well, it is an exciting time for reading that
resilience.
We're excited to have this firstbook launch in the Red Journal
series.
Um, so go and pick it up,definitely.
And I'm glad that you're gettingthese messages as well.
I've had a couple of peoplereach out to me that have
wrapped up the book over thepast weekend and lots of
positive feedback, a lot of thereflection in the book.
So not giving too much away,those reflective questions uh
(02:34):
for individual to just kind ofponder.
I mean, you don't have to havedyslexia to relate to the story
and where you are in your ownexperiences of not being seen or
not feeling like you belong andthings of that nature.
So, so check it out.
I'm excited.
I'm glad that people areenjoying it.
This is fun.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
I did, I had someone ask me if I would take the
journal prompts and put themlike on a poster to have so that
they could put it in theiroffice or whatever.
And I was like, well, it's gonnabe in the red journal that we
create.
So you'll be able to take thejournal and and answer those
questions.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
And answer the questions, exactly.
And I was also gonna say, hey,Rebecca, we're probably gonna
call you.
Rebecca takes care of all of ourfabulous marketing uh for a
machine behind the scenes.
So that is definitely somethingthat we could do as an
infographic as well.
I think that would be a greatidea.
I love it.
I love it.
Okay, Pam, tell our listenerswho's joining us today because I
(03:30):
am excited to hear, I mean, talkabout like captivating story.
Um we are in for that for suretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Absolutely.
So today we have joining us now.
He is a journalist, novelist,and writing coach, John DeDacis.
John is a former editor on CNN'sThe Situation Room with Wolf
Blitzer.
During John's 45-year career injournalism, he was a White House
(03:58):
correspondent during RonaldReagan's presidency.
John is the author of sixaward-winning mystery suspense
thriller novels.
Plus, he's a manuscript editorand motivational speaker.
John's specialty is helpingwannabe writers become published
authors.
Welcome, John.
(04:18):
We are so excited to have youwith us today and for you to
share your story with ourlisteners.
SPEAKER_03 (04:24):
Hi, Pam and Natalie.
Thanks very much for thisopportunity.
It's good to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
Absolutely.
I guess start with telling ushow what got you into
journalism.
SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
Journalism got it was not the first choice.
The first choice was to go intolaw.
My dad was a lawyer, and the twoof us were going to go into
practice together, but then theVietnam War came along.
I was a student at theUniversity of Wisconsin in
Madison.
They had a draft.
If you had a number below 150,you were going to get drafted.
Mine was 14.
(04:55):
I had a student deferment, so Iwas cool for a while.
That was a tumultuous time.
You think this is a dividedtime?
It was even more polarized backthen.
And after Kent State, Kent Statewas when the National Guard
fired on students and killedfour.
And every college campus in thecountry exploded.
(05:15):
And at this point, I was, youknow, I was raised by Nixon
Republicans.
You know, war is good business.
Invest your son.
So that was my background.
But when I was in the dorms andthe bull sessions, I'd argue the
right wing line of my NixonRepublican parents.
And when I was at home, I'dargue the left wing line I was
hearing at school.
And when I was alone, I wasconfused.
(05:38):
And so I volunteered at a campusradio station, covered a riot
after Kent State, got teargassed, and there my parents
heard their little boy gettingtear gassed on the radio, and
they encouraged me to switchschools because I'd had it with
the campus chaos.
And so I did transfer, but atthis point, my grade point
(05:59):
average was 1.94.
I was that close to gettingkicked out of school.
And when I made the transfer, itso happened that Playboy
Magazine had voted UW Madisonthe number one party school in
the country.
And I had seen it as my mainmission in life to be the number
one party.
(06:20):
I didn't succeed.
So I'm 14 in the draft, gettingready to get sent over to
Vietnam.
Long story short, I enlisted toavoid the draft because I wasn't
really sure if that I was aconscientious objector.
(06:43):
So plot twist, and we all havethem, whether it's you know in
our personal lives or infiction.
And in my case, I had I gotorders to Vietnam, but at the
last minute, they were changedto Germany.
And I spent two and a half yearsat the headquarters of the
American Forces Radio andTelevision Network in Frankfurt,
Germany, doing interviews for aspecial events radio unit.
(07:06):
And the first interview I didwas with a guy named Alfred
Hitchcock.
You may have heard of him.
And when you put those twothings together, you've got
(07:27):
purpose and propulsion goingforward in your life.
So I got out of the army, wentto journalism school at the
University of Wisconsin, got agrade point average of 3.5.
I'm not brilliant, but you know,that was what launched my
journalism career.
SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
Alfred Hitchcock, one of myultimate favorite.
His movies are like favorite.
So still, still.
Still.
And so you were doing the radioat the college.
And so that allowed the so didthey pick you to go to Germany
to do the radio show?
Or was it?
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
No, that was the Army.
The Army had something calledmilitary journalism.
And so I got trained in the Armyas a journalist.
That was my first, you know,formal training in the business.
And then, you know, the AmericanForces Network is the voice of
home.
It is, you know, a radio and itis radio and television networks
(08:22):
all over the world, whereverU.S.
troops are stationed.
It's the voice of home.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
And the value of that I can, especially during
that time, like those interviewsand the topics that you're
covering to bring those to thosethat are serving, like to bring
that uh segment to those thatare serving, I'm sure was so it
was huge, right?
I mean, I'm sure during thattime, it's what you look forward
to, right?
Like what's coming on?
What's next?
SPEAKER_03 (08:45):
Absolutely.
Because, you know, you're, youknow, these are mostly young
kids away from home for thefirst time overseas.
You know, granted Germany wasn'ta war zone, but you know, they
had AFN in uh Vietnam as well.
I mean, you know, RobinWilliams, good morning, Vietnam.
That's the American ForcesNetwork.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
That's amazing.
So unlocking that passion,something that you're excited
about and realizing that purposethat you have at that point.
What happens when you come home?
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
I actually had some purpose.
And so I got my degree injournalism, got into uh the
business.
My first television job was atthe NBC affiliate in uh Madison,
and I was there for 10 years.
And nowadays, local news, you'rethere two years and then you
move on.
And so I was at a station wherethey really were committed to
the community.
(09:33):
I covered the White House whenReagan was president for the
last three years of hispresidency.
I went to CNN in Atlanta in 1988as a writer.
Probably the next plot twist waswhen they made me an editor.
It paid well, but it wastedious.
And so I needed a creativeoutlet, and that's when I
started writing fiction becauseI just needed to scratch that
(09:56):
creative itch.
But it took 10 years for me toget the agent that I've got.
My novel went the first novelwent through 14 major revisions,
and my agent was the 39th agentthat I queried.
I tell my writing students, ifyou take good notes, I'll save
you nine years in the process.
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
For our listeners that that don't know, before the
show started, I can see thatthat you don't only just teach
that, John.
You live that.
Uh we were just having someconversation and you were
diligently taking notes as wewere chatting.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Taking notes and pumping you for information.
I I am I am voraciously curious.
And if you and if I get a if ifI get even a little opportunity,
I'll probably turn the tables onyou guys.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
I love that.
I I love that.
Well, I have to say, before westarted, you said something that
I am going to carry with meforever because curiosity is
something that I think is soimportant.
Um, and I speak a lot aboutcuriosity, and I often reference
to it as like curiosity of afive-year-old, you know, that
level of we really want to beable to do that.
Innocent curiosity.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
I mean, uh, you know, kids kids have follow-up
questions nailed.
It's time for bed.
Why?
Because I said so.
Why?
And so on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:09):
Yes, absolutely.
And but and before you started,you said follow the curiosity.
And I thought that is a mottofor life.
Like that is useful.
SPEAKER_03 (11:18):
Oh, baby, that's it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:22):
Gosh, if we could all do that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:24):
I think we can all we can all benefit from that,
right?
Like listen, please.
Like, follow the curiosityforever.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
And then and then listen, because when you're
listening, you're learning.
Absolutely.
We could use a lot of that rightnow in the world.
Oh, yes.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, we're at a point wherewe can't agree on the facts, but
we can find common human ground.
You know, how's the job?
How's the family?
(11:50):
You know, how's your health?
You know, great day, isn't it?
You know, those kind of things.
We can meet on a common leveland try to break that circuit of
having to win the argument.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
John, you mentioned, was it 39revisions that you said?
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
Is that uh yeah, I know it went through 14 major
revisions, but 38 queries thatgot rejected until my agent came
along and we're still togetherafter 20 years and six books.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
That's fabulous.
How did you stay motivatedduring that process?
Because here you are usingwriting as a creative outlet to
only go through rounds androunds of revisions.
How did you keep yourselfinspired to continue with the
work?
SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
You know, I don't think I had to really, you know,
grit my teeth and try.
The desire was just there.
I didn't have to manufacture thedesire.
I mean, part of it, the reasonthat it took so long is that I
had a day job and a wife andthree kids and a dog and a
mortgage, and you know, I've gotprocrastination nailed.
Uh, but at the same time, therewas a moment where my wife took
(12:57):
me aside and said, Um, your bookis your mistress.
And that got my attentionbecause if there's the work-life
balance that I was a little bitlopsided.
So it's the suspense novels.
So what made you go thatdirection?
You know, that's a good questionbecause I had no, I just wanted
(13:18):
to get published.
I just wanted to write a book.
I didn't know there were suchthings as genres, different
story types.
And I don't think I realizedwhat my genre was until late in
the process, maybe the eighthdraft.
I took the uh there was a bookclub that met in our
neighborhood in Atlanta, and uh25 I write as a woman.
That's that's a whole notherthere's a 12-step program for
(13:41):
that, I'm sure.
But there were 20, 25 women letme sit in on their critique.
And as I and that was dauntingfor a number of reasons, but as
I listened to them take itapart, I realized that I had
three subplots that I didn'tneed.
And so in the rewrite, I wasable to take those particular
(14:02):
story strands out, and therewrite, the book went from a
hundred and fifty thousand-wordmishmash, because that's sort of
what the genre was, to a75,000-word mystery suspense
novel.
Who knew?
That's how I found my genre.
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
And were there other books built into some of the
work that you extracted, part ofthe mishmash that was in there?
SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
Uh I think so.
I mean, it's got it's been along time, but uh, you know,
none of that really dies, youknow, because uh, I mean, I had
no intention of writing any morebooks.
I just wanted to get that firstone published.
But then the more you write, themore you think, oh, well, this
could happen and that couldhappen.
And and a lot of times I'mfinding that first-time writers
(14:47):
feel that they've got to crameverything into that book.
You don't, you know, tell thatone story and then go on because
agents love it when you've gotyou know more ideas and more
books in the pipeline.
Oh my gosh, what is your processfor writing?
Procrastination.
But you know what?
Procrastination isn't reallywasted time because if you're
thinking about your book, that'swriting.
(15:10):
Rumination is also writing.
And you know, there does come atime when you've got to you know
put pen to paper or finger tokeyboard.
But uh the process for me, andit and it's evolved.
But what works for me now is Ihave to write in the morning.
If I wait until you know toolate, I don't sleep well because
the book is still churningaround in me.
(15:32):
So I'm up, of course, I didovernights at CNN for you know
25 years, and so that's that mybody was bludgeoned into
submission.
So I only need five hours ofsleep.
Oh, yes.
So today I was up at 2:30 in themorning, and that's fine.
I mean, my wife goes, Are yousure you want to do that?
Yeah, because why should I tossand turn if I've got you know
(15:54):
something to do?
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah, the wheels are still spinning.
SPEAKER_03 (15:57):
I think sleep is overrated.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
I beg to differ.
I really value sleep.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
Fine.
Everybody's different.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
I'm like you, John.
I've never been programmed to tolive on five hours of sleep.
So I I I get that piece of it.
And and again, it was, you know,just a season of life that you
were in and getting that programin your body said, we can we can
function like this.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_03 (16:19):
There you go.
There you go.
Listen to your body, listen toyour body.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, tell us a little bit aboutyour time with CNN and kind of
your professional journey,because while you're making the
advancements on the professionalside, you could you kind of
alluded to this.
You also have life that'shappening, like your personal
life in addition to your career.
So talk to us a little bit aboutyour professional world and then
we'll come back and kind ofbring everything back in.
SPEAKER_03 (16:44):
Okay.
Well, the professional, thejournalism part actually was in
two parts.
The first part was reporting.
First as a radio reporter, thenas a television reporter.
I don't talk about this a wholelot, but I did a stint for five
years at the ChristianBroadcasting Network.
My boss was Pat Robertson, andthis was at a time when he was
running for president.
(17:04):
Here I am, White Housecorrespondent, and my boss is
running for president.
Not, it was a very delicate timebecause you know my job was to
play it straight, not to be inthe Robertson for president
campaign.
And of course, a lot of thepeople I was around felt that
that was my job.
No, it wasn't.
One of the takeaways, I did apiece, uh, we followed uh press
(17:27):
secretary uh Larry Speaks aroundfor a day, and the piece was on
the White House press corpsversus the president.
And the takeaway for me was thatby definition, it's an
adversarial relationship, nomatter who's in office, what
party, because it was the presssecretary's job to make Reagan
and his policies look perfect.
(17:48):
It's our job as reporters tofind out what's really going on,
and so that sets up friction andconfrontation.
And no president, no matter whatparty they're in, likes their
press coverage all that much.
And I discovered that uh, youknow, it's a firing offense at
any reputable news organizationto make things up, and so that
(18:10):
lesson is taken into all mynovels.
All my novels have a journalismbackdrop, and as it's turned
out, that was fortuitous becausejournalism has become incredibly
controversial.
Ever hear of fake news?
My fifth novel, fake.
I wrote that when Trump waselected because I was troubled
by his comment that journalistsare enemies of the American
(18:33):
people.
They're not.
And so what I did is I put myprotagonist, a White House
correspondent, in a situationwhere we, the reader, know that
what's being told about her,that's national news, is a lie.
It's not true.
But there are consequences whenlies are told, and that's what I
tried to catch in uh in fake.
(18:54):
So that was, you know, that wasthe first part of the
professional career, and thenthe second part was, in a sense,
behind the scenes at CNN inAtlanta and uh 17 years in
Atlanta, uh seven years in uh inDC.
In television news, there's alot that goes on behind the
scenes, and or it's amazing thatanything gets on the air because
(19:16):
of all the hoops you have tojump through.
So, you know, that was a greatexperience as well.
I mean, I was there, you know,the night of the Gulf War when
CNN became a household name.
And working for Wolf.
Wolf is a journalist'sjournalist.
You know, he doesn't vote, asfar as I know.
He cares more about accuracy.
When we were together, I stilldon't know what his politics
(19:38):
are.
You know, but it's just he he'she's plays it straight.
And we that's the way weapproached it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Great insight from behind the scenes, right?
Because we uh the public, weonly get the finished product,
right?
It's just it we get what we get,and and if there's a correction
or an edit, uh then we we seethat as well.
The work that goes in it behindthe scenes is uh a tremendous
lift as well.
SPEAKER_03 (19:59):
Yes.
Yeah.
And the problem with journalismnow is that we're siloed.
You know, people gravitatetoward whatever reinforces their
opinion.
There was a woman I met at aconference and she shook her
finger at me and she said,You're nothing but fake news.
And I said, Well, where do youget your news?
She said, Bright part.
And uh my jaw dropped becausethey make it up.
(20:21):
And uh, and I before I could sayanything, she said, Well, I have
to have my opinion reinforced.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
So she just confirmed me.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
I said, actually, you have to have it informed,
you know, get the facts and thengo where you, you know, where
you want.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
You should go ahead and send your resume over there,
ma'am.
I feel like you would be a greatasset.
That's right.
Like you can, you can you toocan contribute.
Well, and John, the other thingis that it it's so fast, right?
The pace of reporting uh in intoday's day and age, it's not
necessarily the accuracy thatyou talk about, right?
Like I think I, you know, whenyou look at journalism from a
(20:59):
historical context to now it'slike a race against the not even
the clock, it's the race againstfirst.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (21:05):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, every every second is adeadline.
Yes.
And, you know, because of theinternet and and digital uh
abilities, yeah, the what itwhat the the phrase is a lie can
go around the world before thetruth can get on its shoes.
That's a good phrase.
Wow, scary.
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
While you're building this fabulous and
exciting professional, you'realso exuding resiliency in your
personal life going through lifewas I as I like to say, life was
lifeing.
Right?
Like like a life is going tohappen around us, regardless of
if we want it to work.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
Yep.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:41):
Talk to us a little bit about your journey because
you've you experienced somethings that I I think would take
a lot of people off course.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
That's true.
And I and it and it actually gotpoured into my writing as well.
When I was nine years old, Iwitnessed a car train collision
that killed three people.
And you know, I was and one ofthe people who that was killed
was a kid my age.
And so, you know, you kind offace your mortality at a pretty
young age.
And then my sister took her lifein 1980, carbon monoxide
(22:10):
poisoning.
I was on the scene that day.
And so 15 years later, I startedto write novels, and the first
chapter brings together thosetwo events, the car train
collision and my sister's death.
And uh, and the very firstchapter is ripped from reality.
I mean, I didn't have to makemuch up at all.
And I discovered that it wascathartic.
(22:32):
It was, you know, you write whatyou know, and I and I encourage
my writing students to movetoward the pain and mine it.
We all have grief and loss, andit doesn't require you to have
lost a loved one, but you canlose a pet, a job, a loved one,
your health, your innocence, youknow, any one of those things
can produce profound feelings ofof loss.
(22:54):
And yet when you're goingthrough it, you feel like no one
understands.
It's you know, you feelisolated.
And yet, as a writer, being ableto articulate it and actually
put it into the lives of yourcharacters does something.
It it helps the other peopleunderstand uh because I think we
read books to live lifevicariously through the
(23:15):
characters and get to knowpeople we otherwise might not
know.
And it's also therapeutic.
And I don't think I evenrealized that for a number of
years because uh by the time myf third book came along, my uh
youngest son went missing.
Uh 22 years old, found dead inmy car, a block and a half from
(23:36):
our house in DC, dead of anaccidental heroin overdose.
And that time I went throughgrief counseling for like two
and a half years.
And when I emerged, I wrote myfourth novel, Pulit in the
Chamber, which once again takesthose the collateral damage
surrounding the time when he wasmissing, and I poured it in as a
(23:57):
subplot in my protagonist'slife.
Again, very therapeutic.
And it's now 20 years later, andI look back and I see all that
time I was working stuff out asI was writing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Yeah, you were working it out through your
writing.
We had a guest a long time ago.
She was a professor and shetaught writing, and she did the
same thing.
She had lost a live-in boyfriendto suicide, and she used writing
to for a heal like therapeutic.
And it is really healing whenyou share those stories that are
(24:31):
deeply personal.
And I it comes across in the inthe pages, and people can feel
it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
Yep.
It helps a lot to be able to dothat and to find that other
people are really helped.
And so now I'm at a point whereI'm I'm expanding and I'm
taking, I'm I'm becoming amotivational speaker for
corporations that have wellnessprograms, uh, veterans groups
that uh are dealing with PTSD,hospice organizations to help
(25:00):
people who are struggling withgrief to use writing as a way to
heal.
And this is especially, I think,valuable in the corporate world
because, you know, unresolvedgrief can cause low morale,
absenteeism, high rates ofturnover, and obviously low
productivity.
So, you know, I think I'm ableat this point to provide some
(25:22):
sort of hope, I guess you couldsay, and resilience.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(25:51):
Resilience.
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Welcome to another episode of Reignite Resilience.
I am your co-host, NatalieDavis, and I'm so excited to be
back with all of you today.
And joining me is your co-host,Pam Cass.
Hello, Pam.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
I am fantastic.
Not only is it a Friday, butit's a Friday getting to not
only record a podcast, but alsohave an incredible guest.
And yes, it's been it's been agreat week.
I'll share with the listeners.
So I had one of my neighborsclick a picture of our book that
she ordered on Amazon.
(01:13):
And she read it because it's ait's a fairly quick, easy read.
Um, she read it and told me thatshe's ordered a whole bunch of
copies to give as gifts topeople.
I love this.
Yes, basically cool.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
It is.
Oh my gosh.
We've got we're gonna continueto give updates as that
progresses.
And if you all have not had achance to go over to Amazon and
pick up the book, click the linkin the show notes.
We will make sure that you canget directly over there, get
your copy, or if you want it asan ebook, download it to your
e-reading device.
I don't do ebooks, so I'm notsure what those device Kindles I
(01:48):
think are still a thing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
I I did Kindles until the time I was lying in
bed reading it and I was holdingit above my head and I must have
fallen asleep and I dropped theKindle on my face.
That hurts a lot more thandropping a book on your face.
So I no longer use a Kindle.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
That's out.
Done.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Know your limits.
Know my limits.
So um, yes, this is this is whathappens.
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
Well, it is an exciting time for reading that
resilience.
We're excited to have this firstbook launch in the Red Journal
series.
Um, so go and pick it up,definitely.
And I'm glad that you're gettingthese messages as well.
I've had a couple of peoplereach out to me that have
wrapped up the book over thepast weekend and lots of
positive feedback, a lot of thereflection in the book.
So not giving too much away,those reflective questions uh
(02:34):
for individual to just kind ofponder.
I mean, you don't have to havedyslexia to relate to the story
and where you are in your ownexperiences of not being seen or
not feeling like you belong andthings of that nature.
So, so check it out.
I'm excited.
I'm glad that people areenjoying it.
This is fun.
SPEAKER_01 (02:53):
I did, I had someone ask me if I would take the
journal prompts and put themlike on a poster to have so that
they could put it in theiroffice or whatever.
And I was like, well, it's gonnabe in the red journal that we
create.
So you'll be able to take thejournal and and answer those
questions.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
And answer the questions, exactly.
And I was also gonna say, hey,Rebecca, we're probably gonna
call you.
Rebecca takes care of all of ourfabulous marketing uh for a
machine behind the scenes.
So that is definitely somethingthat we could do as an
infographic as well.
I think that would be a greatidea.
I love it.
I love it.
Okay, Pam, tell our listenerswho's joining us today because I
(03:30):
am excited to hear, I mean, talkabout like captivating story.
Um we are in for that for suretoday.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Absolutely.
So today we have joining us now.
He is a journalist, novelist,and writing coach, John DeDacis.
John is a former editor on CNN'sThe Situation Room with Wolf
Blitzer.
During John's 45-year career injournalism, he was a White House
(03:58):
correspondent during RonaldReagan's presidency.
John is the author of sixaward-winning mystery suspense
thriller novels.
Plus, he's a manuscript editorand motivational speaker.
John's specialty is helpingwannabe writers become published
authors.
Welcome, John.
(04:18):
We are so excited to have youwith us today and for you to
share your story with ourlisteners.
SPEAKER_03 (04:24):
Hi, Pam and Natalie.
Thanks very much for thisopportunity.
It's good to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:29):
Absolutely.
I guess start with telling ushow what got you into
journalism.
SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
Journalism got it was not the first choice.
The first choice was to go intolaw.
My dad was a lawyer, and the twoof us were going to go into
practice together, but then theVietnam War came along.
I was a student at theUniversity of Wisconsin in
Madison.
They had a draft.
If you had a number below 150,you were going to get drafted.
Mine was 14.
(04:55):
I had a student deferment, so Iwas cool for a while.
That was a tumultuous time.
You think this is a dividedtime?
It was even more polarized backthen.
And after Kent State, Kent Statewas when the National Guard
fired on students and killedfour.
And every college campus in thecountry exploded.
(05:15):
And at this point, I was, youknow, I was raised by Nixon
Republicans.
You know, war is good business.
Invest your son.
So that was my background.
But when I was in the dorms andthe bull sessions, I'd argue the
right wing line of my NixonRepublican parents.
And when I was at home, I'dargue the left wing line I was
hearing at school.
And when I was alone, I wasconfused.
(05:38):
And so I volunteered at a campusradio station, covered a riot
after Kent State, got teargassed, and there my parents
heard their little boy gettingtear gassed on the radio, and
they encouraged me to switchschools because I'd had it with
the campus chaos.
And so I did transfer, but atthis point, my grade point
(05:59):
average was 1.94.
I was that close to gettingkicked out of school.
And when I made the transfer, itso happened that Playboy
Magazine had voted UW Madisonthe number one party school in
the country.
And I had seen it as my mainmission in life to be the number
one party.
(06:20):
I didn't succeed.
So I'm 14 in the draft, gettingready to get sent over to
Vietnam.
Long story short, I enlisted toavoid the draft because I wasn't
really sure if that I was aconscientious objector.
(06:43):
So plot twist, and we all havethem, whether it's you know in
our personal lives or infiction.
And in my case, I had I gotorders to Vietnam, but at the
last minute, they were changedto Germany.
And I spent two and a half yearsat the headquarters of the
American Forces Radio andTelevision Network in Frankfurt,
Germany, doing interviews for aspecial events radio unit.
(07:06):
And the first interview I didwas with a guy named Alfred
Hitchcock.
You may have heard of him.
And when you put those twothings together, you've got
(07:27):
purpose and propulsion goingforward in your life.
So I got out of the army, wentto journalism school at the
University of Wisconsin, got agrade point average of 3.5.
I'm not brilliant, but you know,that was what launched my
journalism career.
SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
Alfred Hitchcock, one of myultimate favorite.
His movies are like favorite.
So still, still.
Still.
And so you were doing the radioat the college.
And so that allowed the so didthey pick you to go to Germany
to do the radio show?
Or was it?
SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
No, that was the Army.
The Army had something calledmilitary journalism.
And so I got trained in the Armyas a journalist.
That was my first, you know,formal training in the business.
And then, you know, the AmericanForces Network is the voice of
home.
It is, you know, a radio and itis radio and television networks
(08:22):
all over the world, whereverU.S.
troops are stationed.
It's the voice of home.
SPEAKER_02 (08:26):
And the value of that I can, especially during
that time, like those interviewsand the topics that you're
covering to bring those to thosethat are serving, like to bring
that uh segment to those thatare serving, I'm sure was so it
was huge, right?
I mean, I'm sure during thattime, it's what you look forward
to, right?
Like what's coming on?
What's next?
SPEAKER_03 (08:45):
Absolutely.
Because, you know, you're, youknow, these are mostly young
kids away from home for thefirst time overseas.
You know, granted Germany wasn'ta war zone, but you know, they
had AFN in uh Vietnam as well.
I mean, you know, RobinWilliams, good morning, Vietnam.
That's the American ForcesNetwork.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
That's amazing.
So unlocking that passion,something that you're excited
about and realizing that purposethat you have at that point.
What happens when you come home?
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
I actually had some purpose.
And so I got my degree injournalism, got into uh the
business.
My first television job was atthe NBC affiliate in uh Madison,
and I was there for 10 years.
And nowadays, local news, you'rethere two years and then you
move on.
And so I was at a station wherethey really were committed to
the community.
(09:33):
I covered the White House whenReagan was president for the
last three years of hispresidency.
I went to CNN in Atlanta in 1988as a writer.
Probably the next plot twist waswhen they made me an editor.
It paid well, but it wastedious.
And so I needed a creativeoutlet, and that's when I
started writing fiction becauseI just needed to scratch that
(09:56):
creative itch.
But it took 10 years for me toget the agent that I've got.
My novel went the first novelwent through 14 major revisions,
and my agent was the 39th agentthat I queried.
I tell my writing students, ifyou take good notes, I'll save
you nine years in the process.
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
For our listeners that that don't know, before the
show started, I can see thatthat you don't only just teach
that, John.
You live that.
Uh we were just having someconversation and you were
diligently taking notes as wewere chatting.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Taking notes and pumping you for information.
I I am I am voraciously curious.
And if you and if I get a if ifI get even a little opportunity,
I'll probably turn the tables onyou guys.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
I love that.
I I love that.
Well, I have to say, before westarted, you said something that
I am going to carry with meforever because curiosity is
something that I think is soimportant.
Um, and I speak a lot aboutcuriosity, and I often reference
to it as like curiosity of afive-year-old, you know, that
level of we really want to beable to do that.
Innocent curiosity.
SPEAKER_03 (10:59):
I mean, uh, you know, kids kids have follow-up
questions nailed.
It's time for bed.
Why?
Because I said so.
Why?
And so on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:09):
Yes, absolutely.
And but and before you started,you said follow the curiosity.
And I thought that is a mottofor life.
Like that is useful.
SPEAKER_03 (11:18):
Oh, baby, that's it.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (11:22):
Gosh, if we could all do that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:24):
I think we can all we can all benefit from that,
right?
Like listen, please.
Like, follow the curiosityforever.
SPEAKER_03 (11:30):
And then and then listen, because when you're
listening, you're learning.
Absolutely.
We could use a lot of that rightnow in the world.
Oh, yes.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, we're at a point wherewe can't agree on the facts, but
we can find common human ground.
You know, how's the job?
How's the family?
(11:50):
You know, how's your health?
You know, great day, isn't it?
You know, those kind of things.
We can meet on a common leveland try to break that circuit of
having to win the argument.
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
I love that.
Oh my gosh.
John, you mentioned, was it 39revisions that you said?
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
Is that uh yeah, I know it went through 14 major
revisions, but 38 queries thatgot rejected until my agent came
along and we're still togetherafter 20 years and six books.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
That's fabulous.
How did you stay motivatedduring that process?
Because here you are usingwriting as a creative outlet to
only go through rounds androunds of revisions.
How did you keep yourselfinspired to continue with the
work?
SPEAKER_03 (12:35):
You know, I don't think I had to really, you know,
grit my teeth and try.
The desire was just there.
I didn't have to manufacture thedesire.
I mean, part of it, the reasonthat it took so long is that I
had a day job and a wife andthree kids and a dog and a
mortgage, and you know, I've gotprocrastination nailed.
Uh, but at the same time, therewas a moment where my wife took
(12:57):
me aside and said, Um, your bookis your mistress.
And that got my attentionbecause if there's the work-life
balance that I was a little bitlopsided.
So it's the suspense novels.
So what made you go thatdirection?
You know, that's a good questionbecause I had no, I just wanted
(13:18):
to get published.
I just wanted to write a book.
I didn't know there were suchthings as genres, different
story types.
And I don't think I realizedwhat my genre was until late in
the process, maybe the eighthdraft.
I took the uh there was a bookclub that met in our
neighborhood in Atlanta, and uh25 I write as a woman.
That's that's a whole notherthere's a 12-step program for
(13:41):
that, I'm sure.
But there were 20, 25 women letme sit in on their critique.
And as I and that was dauntingfor a number of reasons, but as
I listened to them take itapart, I realized that I had
three subplots that I didn'tneed.
And so in the rewrite, I wasable to take those particular
(14:02):
story strands out, and therewrite, the book went from a
hundred and fifty thousand-wordmishmash, because that's sort of
what the genre was, to a75,000-word mystery suspense
novel.
Who knew?
That's how I found my genre.
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
And were there other books built into some of the
work that you extracted, part ofthe mishmash that was in there?
SPEAKER_03 (14:25):
Uh I think so.
I mean, it's got it's been along time, but uh, you know,
none of that really dies, youknow, because uh, I mean, I had
no intention of writing any morebooks.
I just wanted to get that firstone published.
But then the more you write, themore you think, oh, well, this
could happen and that couldhappen.
And and a lot of times I'mfinding that first-time writers
(14:47):
feel that they've got to crameverything into that book.
You don't, you know, tell thatone story and then go on because
agents love it when you've gotyou know more ideas and more
books in the pipeline.
Oh my gosh, what is your processfor writing?
Procrastination.
But you know what?
Procrastination isn't reallywasted time because if you're
thinking about your book, that'swriting.
(15:10):
Rumination is also writing.
And you know, there does come atime when you've got to you know
put pen to paper or finger tokeyboard.
But uh the process for me, andit and it's evolved.
But what works for me now is Ihave to write in the morning.
If I wait until you know toolate, I don't sleep well because
the book is still churningaround in me.
(15:32):
So I'm up, of course, I didovernights at CNN for you know
25 years, and so that's that mybody was bludgeoned into
submission.
So I only need five hours ofsleep.
Oh, yes.
So today I was up at 2:30 in themorning, and that's fine.
I mean, my wife goes, Are yousure you want to do that?
Yeah, because why should I tossand turn if I've got you know
(15:54):
something to do?
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah, the wheels are still spinning.
SPEAKER_03 (15:57):
I think sleep is overrated.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
I beg to differ.
I really value sleep.
SPEAKER_03 (16:04):
Fine.
Everybody's different.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
I'm like you, John.
I've never been programmed to tolive on five hours of sleep.
So I I I get that piece of it.
And and again, it was, you know,just a season of life that you
were in and getting that programin your body said, we can we can
function like this.
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_03 (16:19):
There you go.
There you go.
Listen to your body, listen toyour body.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, tell us a little bit aboutyour time with CNN and kind of
your professional journey,because while you're making the
advancements on the professionalside, you could you kind of
alluded to this.
You also have life that'shappening, like your personal
life in addition to your career.
So talk to us a little bit aboutyour professional world and then
we'll come back and kind ofbring everything back in.
SPEAKER_03 (16:44):
Okay.
Well, the professional, thejournalism part actually was in
two parts.
The first part was reporting.
First as a radio reporter, thenas a television reporter.
I don't talk about this a wholelot, but I did a stint for five
years at the ChristianBroadcasting Network.
My boss was Pat Robertson, andthis was at a time when he was
running for president.
(17:04):
Here I am, White Housecorrespondent, and my boss is
running for president.
Not, it was a very delicate timebecause you know my job was to
play it straight, not to be inthe Robertson for president
campaign.
And of course, a lot of thepeople I was around felt that
that was my job.
No, it wasn't.
One of the takeaways, I did apiece, uh, we followed uh press
(17:27):
secretary uh Larry Speaks aroundfor a day, and the piece was on
the White House press corpsversus the president.
And the takeaway for me was thatby definition, it's an
adversarial relationship, nomatter who's in office, what
party, because it was the presssecretary's job to make Reagan
and his policies look perfect.
(17:48):
It's our job as reporters tofind out what's really going on,
and so that sets up friction andconfrontation.
And no president, no matter whatparty they're in, likes their
press coverage all that much.
And I discovered that uh, youknow, it's a firing offense at
any reputable news organizationto make things up, and so that
(18:10):
lesson is taken into all mynovels.
All my novels have a journalismbackdrop, and as it's turned
out, that was fortuitous becausejournalism has become incredibly
controversial.
Ever hear of fake news?
My fifth novel, fake.
I wrote that when Trump waselected because I was troubled
by his comment that journalistsare enemies of the American
(18:33):
people.
They're not.
And so what I did is I put myprotagonist, a White House
correspondent, in a situationwhere we, the reader, know that
what's being told about her,that's national news, is a lie.
It's not true.
But there are consequences whenlies are told, and that's what I
tried to catch in uh in fake.
(18:54):
So that was, you know, that wasthe first part of the
professional career, and thenthe second part was, in a sense,
behind the scenes at CNN inAtlanta and uh 17 years in
Atlanta, uh seven years in uh inDC.
In television news, there's alot that goes on behind the
scenes, and or it's amazing thatanything gets on the air because
(19:16):
of all the hoops you have tojump through.
So, you know, that was a greatexperience as well.
I mean, I was there, you know,the night of the Gulf War when
CNN became a household name.
And working for Wolf.
Wolf is a journalist'sjournalist.
You know, he doesn't vote, asfar as I know.
He cares more about accuracy.
When we were together, I stilldon't know what his politics
(19:38):
are.
You know, but it's just he he'she's plays it straight.
And we that's the way weapproached it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Great insight from behind the scenes, right?
Because we uh the public, weonly get the finished product,
right?
It's just it we get what we get,and and if there's a correction
or an edit, uh then we we seethat as well.
The work that goes in it behindthe scenes is uh a tremendous
lift as well.
SPEAKER_03 (19:59):
Yes.
Yeah.
And the problem with journalismnow is that we're siloed.
You know, people gravitatetoward whatever reinforces their
opinion.
There was a woman I met at aconference and she shook her
finger at me and she said,You're nothing but fake news.
And I said, Well, where do youget your news?
She said, Bright part.
And uh my jaw dropped becausethey make it up.
(20:21):
And uh, and I before I could sayanything, she said, Well, I have
to have my opinion reinforced.
SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
So she just confirmed me.
SPEAKER_03 (20:30):
I said, actually, you have to have it informed,
you know, get the facts and thengo where you, you know, where
you want.
SPEAKER_02 (20:37):
You should go ahead and send your resume over there,
ma'am.
I feel like you would be a greatasset.
That's right.
Like you can, you can you toocan contribute.
Well, and John, the other thingis that it it's so fast, right?
The pace of reporting uh in intoday's day and age, it's not
necessarily the accuracy thatyou talk about, right?
Like I think I, you know, whenyou look at journalism from a
(20:59):
historical context to now it'slike a race against the not even
the clock, it's the race againstfirst.
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (21:05):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, every every second is adeadline.
Yes.
And, you know, because of theinternet and and digital uh
abilities, yeah, the what itwhat the the phrase is a lie can
go around the world before thetruth can get on its shoes.
That's a good phrase.
Wow, scary.
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
While you're building this fabulous and
exciting professional, you'realso exuding resiliency in your
personal life going through lifewas I as I like to say, life was
lifeing.
Right?
Like like a life is going tohappen around us, regardless of
if we want it to work.
SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
Yep.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (21:41):
Talk to us a little bit about your journey because
you've you experienced somethings that I I think would take
a lot of people off course.
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
That's true.
And I and it and it actually gotpoured into my writing as well.
When I was nine years old, Iwitnessed a car train collision
that killed three people.
And you know, I was and one ofthe people who that was killed
was a kid my age.
And so, you know, you kind offace your mortality at a pretty
young age.
And then my sister took her lifein 1980, carbon monoxide
(22:10):
poisoning.
I was on the scene that day.
And so 15 years later, I startedto write novels, and the first
chapter brings together thosetwo events, the car train
collision and my sister's death.
And uh, and the very firstchapter is ripped from reality.
I mean, I didn't have to makemuch up at all.
And I discovered that it wascathartic.
(22:32):
It was, you know, you write whatyou know, and I and I encourage
my writing students to movetoward the pain and mine it.
We all have grief and loss, andit doesn't require you to have
lost a loved one, but you canlose a pet, a job, a loved one,
your health, your innocence, youknow, any one of those things
can produce profound feelings ofof loss.
(22:54):
And yet when you're goingthrough it, you feel like no one
understands.
It's you know, you feelisolated.
And yet, as a writer, being ableto articulate it and actually
put it into the lives of yourcharacters does something.
It it helps the other peopleunderstand uh because I think we
read books to live lifevicariously through the
(23:15):
characters and get to knowpeople we otherwise might not
know.
And it's also therapeutic.
And I don't think I evenrealized that for a number of
years because uh by the time myf third book came along, my uh
youngest son went missing.
Uh 22 years old, found dead inmy car, a block and a half from
(23:36):
our house in DC, dead of anaccidental heroin overdose.
And that time I went throughgrief counseling for like two
and a half years.
And when I emerged, I wrote myfourth novel, Pulit in the
Chamber, which once again takesthose the collateral damage
surrounding the time when he wasmissing, and I poured it in as a
(23:57):
subplot in my protagonist'slife.
Again, very therapeutic.
And it's now 20 years later, andI look back and I see all that
time I was working stuff out asI was writing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Yeah, you were working it out through your
writing.
We had a guest a long time ago.
She was a professor and shetaught writing, and she did the
same thing.
She had lost a live-in boyfriendto suicide, and she used writing
to for a heal like therapeutic.
And it is really healing whenyou share those stories that are
(24:31):
deeply personal.
And I it comes across in the inthe pages, and people can feel
it.
SPEAKER_03 (24:37):
Yep.
It helps a lot to be able to dothat and to find that other
people are really helped.
And so now I'm at a point whereI'm I'm expanding and I'm
taking, I'm I'm becoming amotivational speaker for
corporations that have wellnessprograms, uh, veterans groups
that uh are dealing with PTSD,hospice organizations to help
(25:00):
people who are struggling withgrief to use writing as a way to
heal.
And this is especially, I think,valuable in the corporate world
because, you know, unresolvedgrief can cause low morale,
absenteeism, high rates ofturnover, and obviously low
productivity.
So, you know, I think I'm ableat this point to provide some
(25:22):
sort of hope, I guess you couldsay, and resilience.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(25:51):
Resilience.
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