October 30, 2025 • 29 mins
Burnout is loud. Recovery is quiet and intentional. In this episode, author, coach, and veteran journalist John DeDakis shares how real resilience takes shape in workplaces and in life. We focus on practical ways leaders and teams build human-centered cultures that perform without exhaustion.
John outlines a simple vision for change: make space for life so attention returns to the present. Pair experienced employees with newer talent to exchange wisdom and skills. We discuss psychological safety, how ideas get lost in meetings, and what it means to credit voices in real time. The conversation goes deeper into immigrant grit, accent adaptation, and code switching—how it helps people survive and how organizations can lessen its hidden cost.
John also shares his journey with dyslexia, from shame to ownership. He explains how cognitive diversity drives stronger solutions when leaders value different ways of thinking.
Writing connects it all. Memoir heals. Journaling brings clarity. Storytelling turns pain into purpose. John gives insight into writing his memoir, mentoring authors, and teaching interviewing techniques that reveal truth.
You will leave with a plan for sustainable resilience:
• Protect time for recovery
• Build two-way mentorship
• Create inclusive meeting habits
• Use reflective writing to turn experience into growth
Follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help others find their way back to resilience.
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The Quiet Gift: A Journey of Self Worth and Resilience
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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.
Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
And John, what do you envision when you bring this
body of work into corporateAmerica?
Because I love thetransformation that we're seeing
in corporate America.
Historically, traditionally, youwouldn't see this type of work
introduced, right?
It's go to work, set your goals,meet the goals, set the new
goal, right?
It's it's very much driven bytasks.
And there's this understandingnow that we are people and we
(01:05):
are in this human resourcebusiness, regardless of product,
service, or business that you'rein.
What do you envision?
What would you like to seebringing this work into the
corporate space?
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
No one has ever asked me that question before.
So I'm winging it here.
That's an excellent question.
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
And I'm the touchy-feely emotional, get in
touch, you know, as if you cansee between the two of us.
I'm that one.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Well, let's go there.
Let's go there.
I'm gonna throw some ideas outthere that any one of which
could be expanded upon.
But let's start with justmindfulness.
We spend most of our timeregretting the past and worrying
about the future, and we're nogood in the moment.
So I would like to seecorporations allow their workers
(01:53):
to have a life, you know, toregenerate, to rejuvenate and
and to realize that it's okay tohave a family and to actually
spend time with it, you know, totake care of yourself.
So that's number one.
I think that I think a good,wise corporation is going to
foster good relationships withinthe organization.
I think uh that uh I'd like tosee, and I'm just making this
(02:17):
up, but uh I think you've tappedinto something.
I'd like to see instead of olderworkers you know shunted aside
because they're old, althoughthey'll never say that, I'd like
to see older workers teamed upwith younger workers so that
both people can learn.
There's tremendous institutionalwisdom that is there, and yet
(02:38):
young people have tremendousacumen when it comes to social
media and uh and all kinds ofthings like that.
There can really be somecross-pollination that can be
advantageous for a corporation.
Um, those are two things.
How am I doing so far?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
That's perfect.
I think that's great.
I think any leader of a companyneeds to take that into
consideration because especiallythe latter the mentoring kind of
absolutely you take thatinstitutional knowledge and kind
of that innovative spirit thatthis younger generation brings
to the workforce.
Uh you a couple of things.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
Mentoring goes both ways, it needs to go both ways,
you know?
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
And I mean, I at CNN, I mean, that I was
surrounded by young women intheir early to mid-20s, and I
think one reason I'm able towrite as a woman is that they
would let me ask them questionsabout what's it like to be a
woman.
I mean, there was one anchor Iworked with, she was gorgeous,
and I said, What's it like forguys to come on to you all the
(03:37):
time?
And she said, I can tell in thefirst 20 seconds if I'm safe.
I never have to worry aboutbeing safe in a conversation.
And that's when I realized thatbeing a woman, at least in part,
means playing defense.
SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
Yes, all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (03:54):
Yeah.
And then I also heard storiesabout, you know, meetings where
one of my friends was in ameeting and she spoke up and
gave an idea, dead silence.
Two people down, some guy saidalmost word for word the same
thing.
Everybody's going, Great idea.
Does that ever happen to youguys?
SPEAKER_02 (04:13):
100%.
Yeah.
I mean, you talk about it and itjust speaks to the resiliency
that women have, and youespecially if you're going to
enter into that competitivespace of a work environment,
corporate, or you know, even asentrepreneurs.
You know, we we shared thatwe're serial entrepreneurs, and
I think that makes it even morechallenging because you don't
have the backing of a big brand.
It is you as yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
So I'm gonna turn the tables.
Tell me, give me a sense of whatit was that allowed you to have
that resiliency, to be able tosucceed in quote unquote a man's
world.
Is there a secret?
First, you, uh Natalie.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I I would love to.
I I think my formula is a littlebit different than most because
I actually pin this back to mybirthplace and my upbringing.
Uh so I was actually not born inthe US.
And I think as an immigrant tothe country, you have a
different perspective.
And I feel like a higher levelof appreciation and level of
(05:16):
being locked into opportunitybecause for my home country,
which is what?
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Where are you from?
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
Jamaica.
Born in Jamaica.
Opportunity was not inabundance.
Um, and it's still not a placewhere opportunity is in
abundance.
And so immigrating to the UnitedStates, you are it was called
and coined the land ofopportunity.
So I see this as you know,nothing can stand in my way
because I'm already here.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, but when you got here, don't tell me it was
just smooth sailing.
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
Rainbows and daisies, absolutely not, John.
It was not.
The first memory that I have,and and you'll, because you were
in the journalism world, you'llprobably be able to relate to
this.
The very first memory that Ihave, four years old in
preschool, getting teased andmade fun of, two things race.
I was the only person of colorin the preschool, and number
(06:09):
two, my accent.
And so one thing I had controlover was how was I going to
speak moving forward.
And so throughout the years,people have always had a hard
time understanding where I wasfrom.
Uh, and I grew up in Texas, andso this is my Texas accent.
Yeah, we're gonna be able to dothat.
And so people are, they wouldsay, like, you've got this
non-regional dialect.
(06:29):
I said, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
You did you have to really work on that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:33):
Yes, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
I think it was assimilation uh initially, and
then realizing the stereotypesthat existed with the Texas draw
uh that existed throughmainstream media.
I watched, I grew up in the 80sand 90s, I watched television.
So seeing those stereotypes andwhat people thought of how
people spoke adjusted that.
(06:57):
And then I got a communicationdegree, and you know, I mean,
it's just it's just a space thatI'm in and constantly top of
mind.
But if I'm able to now I'm gonnasay this, and I love how you've
sp you you sp you took thetables and you turned them on
us, but it's something that I'mworking on because it is
(07:18):
something that I'm working onbecause I don't love the fact
that I had to shed parts of me,John, to fit into fit quote
unquote fit into society.
And that's the crossroads thatI'm at now.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
In what way?
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
We talked about this on one of our prior episodes, I
think the very first season isthat there's a challenge in like
authentically showing up as I ambecause I'm not sure if I'm
going to be accepted for that.
And I don't have a problemadjusting or shifting to whom I
need to be in order to be inthat space.
(07:51):
And at this age and this seasonof life, that's no more.
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
You're being a little vague there, ma'am.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Yeah.
Well, you know, here's thething.
I I've become very clear on thethings that bring me joy, the
things that fill my bucket.
20 years ago, 10, 15 years ago,I would say yes to any
opportunity that came before me.
(08:20):
I'm very intentional now tocreate those opportunities that
I want or say yes to those thatspecifically align with who I am
and my values.
Had you asked the 20-year-oldversion of me, I would have said
yes to absolutely anythingbecause I was, again, seeking
out all of the opportunitiesthat existed.
Now that's not the case.
I'm going to either create whatI want or say yes to what
(08:41):
aligns.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Right.
Because you're, if I'm hearingyou correctly, you are more in
touch with what your values areand you're more discerning and
you're more willing to speak upand take a stand.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
One more quick question, and then I want to
hear Pam.
Making it in a man's world, howdifficult was that?
Because obviously you don't seemdamaged, and so it couldn't have
been easy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
No, not at all.
And I think in the space thatI'm in, not just own the the
fact of showing up as a woman,but a woman of color.
Um, I you you get kind of thisdouble, I feel like it's a
double dose that you're carryingwith you.
Showing up in a man's world, forme, I have just like your
conversation that you had withthe news reporter in terms of
(09:29):
knowing, like within moments, ifyou're safe.
That is programming that isalways operating in the
background.
Not only safe, but I can quicklyand in moments understand if the
person that I'm having aconversation with or people that
I'm having conversation withvalue what I'm saying or see
that I can provide any type ofvalue in that space.
(09:50):
And as a result, because I'm nolonger searching for everything,
if I can pick up on that, I'mthe person that has become the
wallflower.
I'm gonna sit in the background,I'll observe, I'll witness, I'll
contribute when needed, uh, butI don't need to be at the
forefront of it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Yeah.
I do have a quick follow-up.
Sorry, Cam.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
No, you're fine.
Thank goodness.
You're keep going, keep going.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
Um, I just read, I just read James, the uh the sort
of the the modern day version ofHuckleberry Finn.
And one of the things that Ifound fascinating was how, you
know, Jim, when he's talkingwith his people, there's a
certain way of talking.
And then when you're in whitesociety, it's in another way.
(10:38):
And is and that I never reallyconsidered that before.
Is that still the case in oursociety in in the in 19 in 2025?
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
100% it is.
Yes.
Is it really um modern day termthat it's been coined is uh code
switching, and it absolutely isstill a thing.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
And that's a survival thing, really, I would
imagine.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
100%.
And it's not taught anywhere,John.
Like that's the crazy part, isthat it's just uh from a social
group aspect, like an entireculture that understands this.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
It's like that's that's the this is why um a
white guy can never write in thefirst person as an African
American, because they justdon't get it.
They'll never get it.
You can have African Americancharacters because and you can
so it's an observed behavior,and everybody has you know
experience that way.
(11:32):
But uh, you know, gettingimmersing yourself in that life
it's just so vastly different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
It's and it's so complex.
I think that's the thing, isthere's so much complexity to it
because there's so manysimilarities and differences,
but they all bring us back tothe exact same uh central
nucleus, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
I mean, racism is baked into the DNA of this
country.
So, you know, unlike what youknow they're trying to tell us,
but uh slavery, there were nopositives in slavery.
The positive portion of it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Yes, I got I'm I I haven't followed that curiosity,
and I could try.
I haven't carved that out yet.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Thank you.
I'm I'm learning a lot as wesee.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
So all right, Pam.
Uh the but you're in the hotseat now.
So I'm interested in the in howyou navigated the man's world
and you know, got the resilienceyou've got.
SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
Yeah.
I think it, to be honest, itgoes back to dyslexia when
you're, you know, when you'rediagnosed when you're seven.
It was in the 70s and they knewabout dyslexia, but the school,
we were in a rural town out like20 miles outside of Boston, and
they didn't have programs forkids like me.
So that meant I got pulled outof the classroom, pulled away
(12:53):
from my peers.
So I wasn't making friends, Iwasn't doing, and then when I
would go back into theclassroom, well, why did she get
to leave the classroom?
And so a lot of that shame thatyou felt.
And so I spent years just tryingto be invisible.
Like I didn't want people tonotice me.
And it was when my dad, when Iwas 13, imagine this braces,
(13:15):
awkward junior high.
My dad was teaching a DaleCarnegie public speaking class
and he signed me up for it.
And so it was once a week in theevening after school.
And I just remember the firstday showing up, and it was at
this hotel that had the high,high ceilings, and it's this
room filled with adults thatjust got off of work that are
(13:35):
all in their suits.
And every week we had to share astory about our life.
And I'm like, I have no life.
I'm 13.
Like, what am I gonna share?
And so it was over that periodof those months of having to
talk every week.
And of course, these adults weresharing stories about um
suicides and mental health andhealth challenges and abortions
(13:58):
and losing children anddivorces.
And here I am.
I'm 13.
Uh, you know, I cut my lip on mybraces the other, you know, it
was just like I what do I?
So, but by the end of that, andthe encouragement and the
support I got from those adultsin that room just kind of gave
me this boost of confidence.
It didn't last very much.
(14:19):
But what I learned throughdyslexia was that I needed to
work harder than everybody elseto prove myself.
And so my first line of careerafter college was the restaurant
industry, and that is allmale-dominated.
And I always would I would starta job as a manager, and within
(14:41):
three or four months, I wasgetting promoted to the general
manager above the people thathad been there for a long time
that were substantially olderthat who is she to come in here,
but I just outworked them.
And it wasn't because I wastrying to outwork them, it was
just like didn't know anythingdifferent, but I I got a lot of
(15:01):
anger and resentment towardsother people in that industry
when I was in it.
And that was really hard.
And then fast forward, I was uhon the executive team at a
brokerage, same thing.
I would just I got promoted to aVP and I just would work, I
would be working seven days aweek trying to like make sure
that I was worthy of being thevice president when I'd only
(15:24):
been in a management positionfor a short amount of time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
And I would bet that there were probably whispers
that, well, she slept her way tothe top.
SPEAKER_03 (15:33):
It probably.
And I luckily I didn't hearthose, but I'm sure there were
those because the the vicepresident was a young guy,
good-looking guy.
But what got back to me was thatthe president of the company
thought I was trying to take hisjob.
And because of that, and Iconfronted him because I told
him, I was like, that is not myintention, but I didn't share
(15:55):
that I had dyslexia.
I didn't say that, you know,this is how I'm wired.
And and I walked away.
I walked away from that jobbecause I got to a place where I
just hit a wall of burnout.
And I walked away from asix-figure job.
I was a single mom.
I had no idea how the hell I wasgoing to support myself and went
back into real estate afterbeing out of it for four years,
(16:18):
all giving away all my clients,and I started coaching and
teaching and doing that stuff.
And so it's like I've I've neverknown anything different.
I will never go work for anyoneever again because I never want
to feel like I have to provemyself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
At what point did you own publicly the dyslexia?
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
So I was asked to be speaking at our meetings every
week at our company, and I wasdoing a presentation on the
brain and how our brain canovercome things.
And I literally did this wholepresentation in that morning I
and I was gonna share that I haddyslexia.
But then I that morning I waslike, I think I cured myself.
I don't think I have dyslexiaanymore.
(17:03):
And I literally Googled itbecause it was before ChatGP.
I'm like, can you cure it?
And it's like, nope.
And so I literally had convincedmyself because in we moved to
Colorado when I was 10, and theydid have more programs for kids
with dyslexia.
And but when I got to highschool, I did not want to be
different.
I didn't want to go into adifferent classroom.
(17:24):
And then when I was so I didn't,I was like, I will not be in
this classroom.
So I worked extra hard to getinto the class and I was on the
honor roll my senior year.
And then when I went to college,I could have somebody come to
class with me, take all of mynotes, and then I could take
tests separately and have asmuch time as I needed to.
I was like, there's no way I'mdoing that because I don't want
(17:44):
to be different.
I just want to be like everybodyelse.
But that meant I had to work myass off to be able to keep up
with everybody.
And I so it's just it's just mywiring now.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
I sense that you accept yourself now.
How long did it take for that tohappen?
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
I'm still working on that.
Really?
But to be honest, the book thatputs everything on the table.
I mean, I shared everythingabout the the feeling of being
invisible and and and what that,you know, what it was like to
have dyslexia and stuff.
So so now it's out there.
Like everyone who reads it isgonna know my story.
(18:24):
So I have fully accepted itbecause what I've realized is
that it's a gift.
If we if we could look at itlike that, if people could look
at it like that instead of theshame, it could make a huge
difference.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Well, are we having fun yet?
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
How did this become how did this do the big
switcheroo?
No, this is well, I I loved it,John.
And I love the curiosity thatyou have about us.
Yes.
But I'm I'm assuming that thisis the work that you're doing
now.
Like you are working with otherwriters, aspiring authors and
authors, I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:59):
And this is the work that you do to pull that story
out of them.
I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Well, I have a podcast as well.
I started it in when COVIDhappened, and I sort of
realized, oh my God, there'sZoom and Curiosity, and those
two go together.
I've got friends that I want to,you know, and people I want to
get to know better.
I haven't been doing it lately.
Um, it's much more, it's not aregular thing, it's a whenever
(19:22):
kind of thing.
But I was interviewing a lot ofauthors, and uh, you know, the
it really gave me an opportunityto dig deeply into.
And I teach people interviewingtechniques and stuff like that.
So, you know, I'm in the zone.
This is this is me enjoyinglife.
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
There's a line I I would love toshare from it's chapter 12,
which is my favorite chapter,and it said, if you were to ask
me back then what I reallywanted, I would not have said
love.
I would have said perfection.
And I was always, and I thinkstill to the I I'm better now,
but I was always seekingperfection.
(20:01):
Sure.
And I think that's what's yeah,carried me through.
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
This was great.
And I love the just being ableto ask the questions and doing
the interviewing, John.
But like you said, you're in thezone, and I think that that is
definitely a skill.
It's an art.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
It drives my wife nuts.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Stop asking me questions.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
I only get I only get three questions with her.
There was one, there was one daywhere I actually got six in.
Wow.
You know, yeah.
She said, I I don't know whathappened.
I must elapse.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Well, so then you know it's interesting because I
flip it off.
Like I turn it right off.
If I'm not here, or if I'm notmoderating a panel discussion,
or if I'm not doing a workshop,it flips right off.
And sometimes it makes my oldestdaughter a little wild because I
will tell her a story and she'llask for specifics.
And I'm like, I didn't, I didn'task those questions.
I don't know.
I don't I'm I'm sharing what Iknow, and that's it.
(20:58):
So I've I turned it off.
So I I can understand your wifesaying, you you have three and
you've used your three fortoday, so call me tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
She doesn't even go that far.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Yes.
Well, John, tell us what youhave in the works.
What are you working on now, orwhat do you have coming up in
terms of training and workshopsand how you're working with uh
writers?
And if we have a listener thatwould love to work with you,
what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
Well, let's see.
Uh all of the questions can beanswered and you can get to me
through my website.
You know, I've got a page therethat talks about the public
speaking that I do.
There's another page that uhdescribes the books, there's a
page that talks about myupcoming events, which include a
lot of online uh classes.
And you can also get through tome by email if you go to my
(21:47):
website, which isjohndodacas.com, J-O-H-N, D as
in dog E, D as in Dog A, K-I-Sas in Sam, johndedakis.com.
I've got a memoir that I'mshopping around.
It's uh it basically the theconcept is the pivotal moments
in my life that brought me towhere I am.
(22:09):
And there've been a lot oflessons along the way because
I'm old.
Let's see.
I've got I'm working on bookseven, and my wife and I are
actually working on it together,which we did for book six.
Book six, my protagonist is aWhite House press secretary,
pregnant, ambivalent aboutbecoming a single mom, abortion
is a crime, and a dictatorbecomes president.
(22:30):
It could never happen.
So there's that, and webasically wrote it together.
She we she she and I came upwith the idea, I would write it,
and then she was my alpha readerand got me out of a lot of jams.
And so that worked pretty well.
It's getting it got about sevenawards this year so far, and so
we're we're doing that again.
It's it's on the back burner atthe moment because I'm expanding
(22:53):
my business to speak at uhcorporations and so on about
writing as a way to heal.
And what else?
Well, I've got clients, coachingclients, manuscripts to edit.
Yeah, I'm a busy guy, you'rebusy, but you know, you just
take it one moment at a time.
SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
And when you love it all, it's like it doesn't feel
like you're doing a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
That's right.
That's exactly it.
I mean, you know, there areprobably uh 7,000 unopened
emails in my uh inbox, but mostof them most of them are junk,
as far as I can tell.
Um, but um yeah, you I thinkthere's something in scripture
about let the day zone troublebe sufficient for the day.
And so yeah, I every the days gofast.
SPEAKER_03 (23:35):
Yes, they do.
Yeah, and it seems to be fasterthe older I get.
Yeah, running out of time.
Yeah, we're running out of time,so we got to get it done.
Got a lot of lives to impact.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
I love it.
I and you're doing that, John,and and all of your work
complements each other, so thatI can see how that's seems to be
the case, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
It's all it's firing on all cylinders, is what it
feels like.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
And your experience putting the memoir together, the
same in terms of writingexperience as your fiction?
SPEAKER_01 (24:03):
Yeah, uh, you know, I did exactly the same in terms
of early morning.
And you know, Cindy is my mywife is a little was a little
uncomfortable because it's likeit's your story, not mine.
And I go, but yeah, but for 47years you've been part of my
story.
And so she asked me to have herbest, best, best friend read it
(24:23):
first, sort of as the canary inthe Chris read it and gave me
notes, and then I you knowworked on it and then wanted to
see it again.
So actually Chris read it twiceand then said to Cindy, okay,
it's ready for yeah, now it'sthe coast is clear, and and so
Cindy had her, and I'm goinginto way more detail than you
(24:45):
care about, but uh she had aknee replaced, and so she had to
do PT.
And so while she was doing herexercises, she had me read the
chapters out loud, and she'svery good.
She can pick up things and andwas giving me good notes.
And then when she entered thestory when we met, she goes,
Okay, I'll take it from herewithout hovering.
(25:08):
But I but I had to nudge, I hadto keep going.
How's that coming?
How's that coming?
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Oh, you know, yeah.
Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
But she signed off on it.
You know, now we'll just have towait and see.
But the process was was prettymuch the same.
Dug more into my old journals.
I didn't have to make stuff upthis time.
SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
That makes sense.
Yep, absolutely.
Pulling from your experiences,right?
You're not creating anything.
It is here's what I experienced.
Let's put it in.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
And the hardest thing is cutting because that
you have to kind of be veryjudicious about what's important
and what's not, and most of it'snot.
And and when it's your story,well, it's everything's
important.
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
Oh well, congratulations on the memoir.
I uh I'm gonna have to get myhands on it because what you've
shared with us so far has justbeen uh amazing in terms of your
life journey and your life workand what you've done.
So I'm sure that the memoir willnot disappoint.
I'm I'm excited to see that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Thank you.
Well, we have to get itpublished first.
SPEAKER_02 (26:10):
So don't hold your breath.
I I'm gonna keep an eye out forit.
I have no concern.
I'm not worried at all.
But I'm not the author.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
I know how to find you guys.
Maybe you'll let me come backand talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
We would love to make you dead.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
We would love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Let's do that.
I I would love that.
We're we're gonna make thathappen.
So you just let us know as soonas it's um published.
We'll connect and and we'll getyou back on the show.
I think our listeners wouldreally enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Well, this is fun.
I mean, you guys are people askme, you know, who's the most
interesting person you've everinterviewed?
Usually it's the last personI've talked to.
I mean, I consider yes, you guysare the most interesting people
I've talked to in the you know,because you're the most recent
ones.
And I consider it a good day ifI've been able to go deep with
(27:00):
with someone.
And this is a doubly good day.
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
Yeah, this is I love that.
Thank you, John.
And what I heard is that I'mmore interesting than Alfred
Hitchcock, so thank you.
I will take that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
You totally are.
Yes, because he's dead, sothere's way more interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
John, this has been an absolute honor.
Thank you.
Thank you for gracing us andjoining us on the show today.
And thank you for allowing us toshare our stories as well, like
turning the tables.
It only happens every so often,and it's for those interviewers
that know what they're doing.
So I'm I'm grateful that we hadthe opportunity to share our
stories with our listeners aswell.
A little bit more about us.
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
Well, you're welcome, and thank you.
This has been a treat.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Fabulous.
Oh my goodness.
We will make sure that we putall of your contact information
and your website in the shownotes so our listeners can get a
hold of you and connect with youif they so wish.
And then for our listeners, youall know the spiel.
If you are wanting to knowwhat's happening in the world of
Reignite Resilience, head onover to ReigniteResilience.com
and don't forget to pick up acopy of the book when you have a
moment.
Until next time, we'll see y'allsoon.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
Hi, everyone.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Reignite Resilience
podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
(28:29):
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
Resilience.
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
And John, what do you envision when you bring this
body of work into corporateAmerica?
Because I love thetransformation that we're seeing
in corporate America.
Historically, traditionally, youwouldn't see this type of work
introduced, right?
It's go to work, set your goals,meet the goals, set the new
goal, right?
It's it's very much driven bytasks.
And there's this understandingnow that we are people and we
(01:05):
are in this human resourcebusiness, regardless of product,
service, or business that you'rein.
What do you envision?
What would you like to seebringing this work into the
corporate space?
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
No one has ever asked me that question before.
So I'm winging it here.
That's an excellent question.
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
And I'm the touchy-feely emotional, get in
touch, you know, as if you cansee between the two of us.
I'm that one.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
Well, let's go there.
Let's go there.
I'm gonna throw some ideas outthere that any one of which
could be expanded upon.
But let's start with justmindfulness.
We spend most of our timeregretting the past and worrying
about the future, and we're nogood in the moment.
So I would like to seecorporations allow their workers
(01:53):
to have a life, you know, toregenerate, to rejuvenate and
and to realize that it's okay tohave a family and to actually
spend time with it, you know, totake care of yourself.
So that's number one.
I think that I think a good,wise corporation is going to
foster good relationships withinthe organization.
I think uh that uh I'd like tosee, and I'm just making this
(02:17):
up, but uh I think you've tappedinto something.
I'd like to see instead of olderworkers you know shunted aside
because they're old, althoughthey'll never say that, I'd like
to see older workers teamed upwith younger workers so that
both people can learn.
There's tremendous institutionalwisdom that is there, and yet
(02:38):
young people have tremendousacumen when it comes to social
media and uh and all kinds ofthings like that.
There can really be somecross-pollination that can be
advantageous for a corporation.
Um, those are two things.
How am I doing so far?
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
That's perfect.
I think that's great.
I think any leader of a companyneeds to take that into
consideration because especiallythe latter the mentoring kind of
absolutely you take thatinstitutional knowledge and kind
of that innovative spirit thatthis younger generation brings
to the workforce.
Uh you a couple of things.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
Mentoring goes both ways, it needs to go both ways,
you know?
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
And I mean, I at CNN, I mean, that I was
surrounded by young women intheir early to mid-20s, and I
think one reason I'm able towrite as a woman is that they
would let me ask them questionsabout what's it like to be a
woman.
I mean, there was one anchor Iworked with, she was gorgeous,
and I said, What's it like forguys to come on to you all the
(03:37):
time?
And she said, I can tell in thefirst 20 seconds if I'm safe.
I never have to worry aboutbeing safe in a conversation.
And that's when I realized thatbeing a woman, at least in part,
means playing defense.
SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
Yes, all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (03:54):
Yeah.
And then I also heard storiesabout, you know, meetings where
one of my friends was in ameeting and she spoke up and
gave an idea, dead silence.
Two people down, some guy saidalmost word for word the same
thing.
Everybody's going, Great idea.
Does that ever happen to youguys?
SPEAKER_02 (04:13):
100%.
Yeah.
I mean, you talk about it and itjust speaks to the resiliency
that women have, and youespecially if you're going to
enter into that competitivespace of a work environment,
corporate, or you know, even asentrepreneurs.
You know, we we shared thatwe're serial entrepreneurs, and
I think that makes it even morechallenging because you don't
have the backing of a big brand.
It is you as yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
So I'm gonna turn the tables.
Tell me, give me a sense of whatit was that allowed you to have
that resiliency, to be able tosucceed in quote unquote a man's
world.
Is there a secret?
First, you, uh Natalie.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I I would love to.
I I think my formula is a littlebit different than most because
I actually pin this back to mybirthplace and my upbringing.
Uh so I was actually not born inthe US.
And I think as an immigrant tothe country, you have a
different perspective.
And I feel like a higher levelof appreciation and level of
(05:16):
being locked into opportunitybecause for my home country,
which is what?
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Where are you from?
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
Jamaica.
Born in Jamaica.
Opportunity was not inabundance.
Um, and it's still not a placewhere opportunity is in
abundance.
And so immigrating to the UnitedStates, you are it was called
and coined the land ofopportunity.
So I see this as you know,nothing can stand in my way
because I'm already here.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Yeah, but when you got here, don't tell me it was
just smooth sailing.
SPEAKER_02 (05:47):
Rainbows and daisies, absolutely not, John.
It was not.
The first memory that I have,and and you'll, because you were
in the journalism world, you'llprobably be able to relate to
this.
The very first memory that Ihave, four years old in
preschool, getting teased andmade fun of, two things race.
I was the only person of colorin the preschool, and number
(06:09):
two, my accent.
And so one thing I had controlover was how was I going to
speak moving forward.
And so throughout the years,people have always had a hard
time understanding where I wasfrom.
Uh, and I grew up in Texas, andso this is my Texas accent.
Yeah, we're gonna be able to dothat.
And so people are, they wouldsay, like, you've got this
non-regional dialect.
(06:29):
I said, that's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
You did you have to really work on that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:33):
Yes, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01 (06:35):
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
I think it was assimilation uh initially, and
then realizing the stereotypesthat existed with the Texas draw
uh that existed throughmainstream media.
I watched, I grew up in the 80sand 90s, I watched television.
So seeing those stereotypes andwhat people thought of how
people spoke adjusted that.
(06:57):
And then I got a communicationdegree, and you know, I mean,
it's just it's just a space thatI'm in and constantly top of
mind.
But if I'm able to now I'm gonnasay this, and I love how you've
sp you you sp you took thetables and you turned them on
us, but it's something that I'mworking on because it is
(07:18):
something that I'm working onbecause I don't love the fact
that I had to shed parts of me,John, to fit into fit quote
unquote fit into society.
And that's the crossroads thatI'm at now.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
In what way?
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
We talked about this on one of our prior episodes, I
think the very first season isthat there's a challenge in like
authentically showing up as I ambecause I'm not sure if I'm
going to be accepted for that.
And I don't have a problemadjusting or shifting to whom I
need to be in order to be inthat space.
(07:51):
And at this age and this seasonof life, that's no more.
SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
You're being a little vague there, ma'am.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Yeah.
Well, you know, here's thething.
I I've become very clear on thethings that bring me joy, the
things that fill my bucket.
20 years ago, 10, 15 years ago,I would say yes to any
opportunity that came before me.
(08:20):
I'm very intentional now tocreate those opportunities that
I want or say yes to those thatspecifically align with who I am
and my values.
Had you asked the 20-year-oldversion of me, I would have said
yes to absolutely anythingbecause I was, again, seeking
out all of the opportunitiesthat existed.
Now that's not the case.
I'm going to either create whatI want or say yes to what
(08:41):
aligns.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Right.
Because you're, if I'm hearingyou correctly, you are more in
touch with what your values areand you're more discerning and
you're more willing to speak upand take a stand.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
One more quick question, and then I want to
hear Pam.
Making it in a man's world, howdifficult was that?
Because obviously you don't seemdamaged, and so it couldn't have
been easy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
No, not at all.
And I think in the space thatI'm in, not just own the the
fact of showing up as a woman,but a woman of color.
Um, I you you get kind of thisdouble, I feel like it's a
double dose that you're carryingwith you.
Showing up in a man's world, forme, I have just like your
conversation that you had withthe news reporter in terms of
(09:29):
knowing, like within moments, ifyou're safe.
That is programming that isalways operating in the
background.
Not only safe, but I can quicklyand in moments understand if the
person that I'm having aconversation with or people that
I'm having conversation withvalue what I'm saying or see
that I can provide any type ofvalue in that space.
(09:50):
And as a result, because I'm nolonger searching for everything,
if I can pick up on that, I'mthe person that has become the
wallflower.
I'm gonna sit in the background,I'll observe, I'll witness, I'll
contribute when needed, uh, butI don't need to be at the
forefront of it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Yeah.
I do have a quick follow-up.
Sorry, Cam.
SPEAKER_03 (10:10):
No, you're fine.
Thank goodness.
You're keep going, keep going.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
Um, I just read, I just read James, the uh the sort
of the the modern day version ofHuckleberry Finn.
And one of the things that Ifound fascinating was how, you
know, Jim, when he's talkingwith his people, there's a
certain way of talking.
And then when you're in whitesociety, it's in another way.
(10:38):
And is and that I never reallyconsidered that before.
Is that still the case in oursociety in in the in 19 in 2025?
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
100% it is.
Yes.
Is it really um modern day termthat it's been coined is uh code
switching, and it absolutely isstill a thing.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
And that's a survival thing, really, I would
imagine.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:00):
100%.
And it's not taught anywhere,John.
Like that's the crazy part, isthat it's just uh from a social
group aspect, like an entireculture that understands this.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
It's like that's that's the this is why um a
white guy can never write in thefirst person as an African
American, because they justdon't get it.
They'll never get it.
You can have African Americancharacters because and you can
so it's an observed behavior,and everybody has you know
experience that way.
(11:32):
But uh, you know, gettingimmersing yourself in that life
it's just so vastly different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
It's and it's so complex.
I think that's the thing, isthere's so much complexity to it
because there's so manysimilarities and differences,
but they all bring us back tothe exact same uh central
nucleus, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
I mean, racism is baked into the DNA of this
country.
So, you know, unlike what youknow they're trying to tell us,
but uh slavery, there were nopositives in slavery.
The positive portion of it.
SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
Yes, I got I'm I I haven't followed that curiosity,
and I could try.
I haven't carved that out yet.
SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Thank you.
I'm I'm learning a lot as wesee.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (12:19):
So all right, Pam.
Uh the but you're in the hotseat now.
So I'm interested in the in howyou navigated the man's world
and you know, got the resilienceyou've got.
SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
Yeah.
I think it, to be honest, itgoes back to dyslexia when
you're, you know, when you'rediagnosed when you're seven.
It was in the 70s and they knewabout dyslexia, but the school,
we were in a rural town out like20 miles outside of Boston, and
they didn't have programs forkids like me.
So that meant I got pulled outof the classroom, pulled away
(12:53):
from my peers.
So I wasn't making friends, Iwasn't doing, and then when I
would go back into theclassroom, well, why did she get
to leave the classroom?
And so a lot of that shame thatyou felt.
And so I spent years just tryingto be invisible.
Like I didn't want people tonotice me.
And it was when my dad, when Iwas 13, imagine this braces,
(13:15):
awkward junior high.
My dad was teaching a DaleCarnegie public speaking class
and he signed me up for it.
And so it was once a week in theevening after school.
And I just remember the firstday showing up, and it was at
this hotel that had the high,high ceilings, and it's this
room filled with adults thatjust got off of work that are
(13:35):
all in their suits.
And every week we had to share astory about our life.
And I'm like, I have no life.
I'm 13.
Like, what am I gonna share?
And so it was over that periodof those months of having to
talk every week.
And of course, these adults weresharing stories about um
suicides and mental health andhealth challenges and abortions
(13:58):
and losing children anddivorces.
And here I am.
I'm 13.
Uh, you know, I cut my lip on mybraces the other, you know, it
was just like I what do I?
So, but by the end of that, andthe encouragement and the
support I got from those adultsin that room just kind of gave
me this boost of confidence.
It didn't last very much.
(14:19):
But what I learned throughdyslexia was that I needed to
work harder than everybody elseto prove myself.
And so my first line of careerafter college was the restaurant
industry, and that is allmale-dominated.
And I always would I would starta job as a manager, and within
(14:41):
three or four months, I wasgetting promoted to the general
manager above the people thathad been there for a long time
that were substantially olderthat who is she to come in here,
but I just outworked them.
And it wasn't because I wastrying to outwork them, it was
just like didn't know anythingdifferent, but I I got a lot of
(15:01):
anger and resentment towardsother people in that industry
when I was in it.
And that was really hard.
And then fast forward, I was uhon the executive team at a
brokerage, same thing.
I would just I got promoted to aVP and I just would work, I
would be working seven days aweek trying to like make sure
that I was worthy of being thevice president when I'd only
(15:24):
been in a management positionfor a short amount of time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
And I would bet that there were probably whispers
that, well, she slept her way tothe top.
SPEAKER_03 (15:33):
It probably.
And I luckily I didn't hearthose, but I'm sure there were
those because the the vicepresident was a young guy,
good-looking guy.
But what got back to me was thatthe president of the company
thought I was trying to take hisjob.
And because of that, and Iconfronted him because I told
him, I was like, that is not myintention, but I didn't share
(15:55):
that I had dyslexia.
I didn't say that, you know,this is how I'm wired.
And and I walked away.
I walked away from that jobbecause I got to a place where I
just hit a wall of burnout.
And I walked away from asix-figure job.
I was a single mom.
I had no idea how the hell I wasgoing to support myself and went
back into real estate afterbeing out of it for four years,
(16:18):
all giving away all my clients,and I started coaching and
teaching and doing that stuff.
And so it's like I've I've neverknown anything different.
I will never go work for anyoneever again because I never want
to feel like I have to provemyself.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
At what point did you own publicly the dyslexia?
SPEAKER_03 (16:40):
So I was asked to be speaking at our meetings every
week at our company, and I wasdoing a presentation on the
brain and how our brain canovercome things.
And I literally did this wholepresentation in that morning I
and I was gonna share that I haddyslexia.
But then I that morning I waslike, I think I cured myself.
I don't think I have dyslexiaanymore.
(17:03):
And I literally Googled itbecause it was before ChatGP.
I'm like, can you cure it?
And it's like, nope.
And so I literally had convincedmyself because in we moved to
Colorado when I was 10, and theydid have more programs for kids
with dyslexia.
And but when I got to highschool, I did not want to be
different.
I didn't want to go into adifferent classroom.
(17:24):
And then when I was so I didn't,I was like, I will not be in
this classroom.
So I worked extra hard to getinto the class and I was on the
honor roll my senior year.
And then when I went to college,I could have somebody come to
class with me, take all of mynotes, and then I could take
tests separately and have asmuch time as I needed to.
I was like, there's no way I'mdoing that because I don't want
(17:44):
to be different.
I just want to be like everybodyelse.
But that meant I had to work myass off to be able to keep up
with everybody.
And I so it's just it's just mywiring now.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
I sense that you accept yourself now.
How long did it take for that tohappen?
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
I'm still working on that.
Really?
But to be honest, the book thatputs everything on the table.
I mean, I shared everythingabout the the feeling of being
invisible and and and what that,you know, what it was like to
have dyslexia and stuff.
So so now it's out there.
Like everyone who reads it isgonna know my story.
(18:24):
So I have fully accepted itbecause what I've realized is
that it's a gift.
If we if we could look at itlike that, if people could look
at it like that instead of theshame, it could make a huge
difference.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Well, are we having fun yet?
SPEAKER_03 (18:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
How did this become how did this do the big
switcheroo?
No, this is well, I I loved it,John.
And I love the curiosity thatyou have about us.
Yes.
But I'm I'm assuming that thisis the work that you're doing
now.
Like you are working with otherwriters, aspiring authors and
authors, I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:59):
And this is the work that you do to pull that story
out of them.
I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Well, I have a podcast as well.
I started it in when COVIDhappened, and I sort of
realized, oh my God, there'sZoom and Curiosity, and those
two go together.
I've got friends that I want to,you know, and people I want to
get to know better.
I haven't been doing it lately.
Um, it's much more, it's not aregular thing, it's a whenever
(19:22):
kind of thing.
But I was interviewing a lot ofauthors, and uh, you know, the
it really gave me an opportunityto dig deeply into.
And I teach people interviewingtechniques and stuff like that.
So, you know, I'm in the zone.
This is this is me enjoyinglife.
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
There's a line I I would love toshare from it's chapter 12,
which is my favorite chapter,and it said, if you were to ask
me back then what I reallywanted, I would not have said
love.
I would have said perfection.
And I was always, and I thinkstill to the I I'm better now,
but I was always seekingperfection.
(20:01):
Sure.
And I think that's what's yeah,carried me through.
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
This was great.
And I love the just being ableto ask the questions and doing
the interviewing, John.
But like you said, you're in thezone, and I think that that is
definitely a skill.
It's an art.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
It drives my wife nuts.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Stop asking me questions.
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
I only get I only get three questions with her.
There was one, there was one daywhere I actually got six in.
Wow.
You know, yeah.
She said, I I don't know whathappened.
I must elapse.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Well, so then you know it's interesting because I
flip it off.
Like I turn it right off.
If I'm not here, or if I'm notmoderating a panel discussion,
or if I'm not doing a workshop,it flips right off.
And sometimes it makes my oldestdaughter a little wild because I
will tell her a story and she'llask for specifics.
And I'm like, I didn't, I didn'task those questions.
I don't know.
I don't I'm I'm sharing what Iknow, and that's it.
(20:58):
So I've I turned it off.
So I I can understand your wifesaying, you you have three and
you've used your three fortoday, so call me tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
She doesn't even go that far.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Yes.
Well, John, tell us what youhave in the works.
What are you working on now, orwhat do you have coming up in
terms of training and workshopsand how you're working with uh
writers?
And if we have a listener thatwould love to work with you,
what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
Well, let's see.
Uh all of the questions can beanswered and you can get to me
through my website.
You know, I've got a page therethat talks about the public
speaking that I do.
There's another page that uhdescribes the books, there's a
page that talks about myupcoming events, which include a
lot of online uh classes.
And you can also get through tome by email if you go to my
(21:47):
website, which isjohndodacas.com, J-O-H-N, D as
in dog E, D as in Dog A, K-I-Sas in Sam, johndedakis.com.
I've got a memoir that I'mshopping around.
It's uh it basically the theconcept is the pivotal moments
in my life that brought me towhere I am.
(22:09):
And there've been a lot oflessons along the way because
I'm old.
Let's see.
I've got I'm working on bookseven, and my wife and I are
actually working on it together,which we did for book six.
Book six, my protagonist is aWhite House press secretary,
pregnant, ambivalent aboutbecoming a single mom, abortion
is a crime, and a dictatorbecomes president.
(22:30):
It could never happen.
So there's that, and webasically wrote it together.
She we she she and I came upwith the idea, I would write it,
and then she was my alpha readerand got me out of a lot of jams.
And so that worked pretty well.
It's getting it got about sevenawards this year so far, and so
we're we're doing that again.
It's it's on the back burner atthe moment because I'm expanding
(22:53):
my business to speak at uhcorporations and so on about
writing as a way to heal.
And what else?
Well, I've got clients, coachingclients, manuscripts to edit.
Yeah, I'm a busy guy, you'rebusy, but you know, you just
take it one moment at a time.
SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
And when you love it all, it's like it doesn't feel
like you're doing a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
That's right.
That's exactly it.
I mean, you know, there areprobably uh 7,000 unopened
emails in my uh inbox, but mostof them most of them are junk,
as far as I can tell.
Um, but um yeah, you I thinkthere's something in scripture
about let the day zone troublebe sufficient for the day.
And so yeah, I every the days gofast.
SPEAKER_03 (23:35):
Yes, they do.
Yeah, and it seems to be fasterthe older I get.
Yeah, running out of time.
Yeah, we're running out of time,so we got to get it done.
Got a lot of lives to impact.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
I love it.
I and you're doing that, John,and and all of your work
complements each other, so thatI can see how that's seems to be
the case, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
It's all it's firing on all cylinders, is what it
feels like.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
And your experience putting the memoir together, the
same in terms of writingexperience as your fiction?
SPEAKER_01 (24:03):
Yeah, uh, you know, I did exactly the same in terms
of early morning.
And you know, Cindy is my mywife is a little was a little
uncomfortable because it's likeit's your story, not mine.
And I go, but yeah, but for 47years you've been part of my
story.
And so she asked me to have herbest, best, best friend read it
(24:23):
first, sort of as the canary inthe Chris read it and gave me
notes, and then I you knowworked on it and then wanted to
see it again.
So actually Chris read it twiceand then said to Cindy, okay,
it's ready for yeah, now it'sthe coast is clear, and and so
Cindy had her, and I'm goinginto way more detail than you
(24:45):
care about, but uh she had aknee replaced, and so she had to
do PT.
And so while she was doing herexercises, she had me read the
chapters out loud, and she'svery good.
She can pick up things and andwas giving me good notes.
And then when she entered thestory when we met, she goes,
Okay, I'll take it from herewithout hovering.
(25:08):
But I but I had to nudge, I hadto keep going.
How's that coming?
How's that coming?
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Oh, you know, yeah.
Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
But she signed off on it.
You know, now we'll just have towait and see.
But the process was was prettymuch the same.
Dug more into my old journals.
I didn't have to make stuff upthis time.
SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
That makes sense.
Yep, absolutely.
Pulling from your experiences,right?
You're not creating anything.
It is here's what I experienced.
Let's put it in.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
And the hardest thing is cutting because that
you have to kind of be veryjudicious about what's important
and what's not, and most of it'snot.
And and when it's your story,well, it's everything's
important.
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's not.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
Oh well, congratulations on the memoir.
I uh I'm gonna have to get myhands on it because what you've
shared with us so far has justbeen uh amazing in terms of your
life journey and your life workand what you've done.
So I'm sure that the memoir willnot disappoint.
I'm I'm excited to see that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
Thank you.
Well, we have to get itpublished first.
SPEAKER_02 (26:10):
So don't hold your breath.
I I'm gonna keep an eye out forit.
I have no concern.
I'm not worried at all.
But I'm not the author.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
I know how to find you guys.
Maybe you'll let me come backand talk about it.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
We would love to make you dead.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:28):
We would love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Let's do that.
I I would love that.
We're we're gonna make thathappen.
So you just let us know as soonas it's um published.
We'll connect and and we'll getyou back on the show.
I think our listeners wouldreally enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
Well, this is fun.
I mean, you guys are people askme, you know, who's the most
interesting person you've everinterviewed?
Usually it's the last personI've talked to.
I mean, I consider yes, you guysare the most interesting people
I've talked to in the you know,because you're the most recent
ones.
And I consider it a good day ifI've been able to go deep with
(27:00):
with someone.
And this is a doubly good day.
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
Yeah, this is I love that.
Thank you, John.
And what I heard is that I'mmore interesting than Alfred
Hitchcock, so thank you.
I will take that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
You totally are.
Yes, because he's dead, sothere's way more interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
John, this has been an absolute honor.
Thank you.
Thank you for gracing us andjoining us on the show today.
And thank you for allowing us toshare our stories as well, like
turning the tables.
It only happens every so often,and it's for those interviewers
that know what they're doing.
So I'm I'm grateful that we hadthe opportunity to share our
stories with our listeners aswell.
A little bit more about us.
SPEAKER_01 (27:44):
Well, you're welcome, and thank you.
This has been a treat.
SPEAKER_02 (27:47):
Fabulous.
Oh my goodness.
We will make sure that we putall of your contact information
and your website in the shownotes so our listeners can get a
hold of you and connect with youif they so wish.
And then for our listeners, youall know the spiel.
If you are wanting to knowwhat's happening in the world of
Reignite Resilience, head onover to ReigniteResilience.com
and don't forget to pick up acopy of the book when you have a
moment.
Until next time, we'll see y'allsoon.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
Hi, everyone.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Reignite Resilience
podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
(28:29):
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
Resilience.
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