October 6, 2025 • 25 mins
Madison Rose shares her journey of founding Better Half to Whole, a platform that helps people rebuild after divorce with intention, compassion, and self-trust through nervous system regulation and somatic healing.
• Divorce creates unexpected social challenges as friendships shift and couple dynamics change
• Setting up consistent check-in times with supportive friends provides structure during emotional upheaval
• The pre-divorce years often involve hope for reconciliation and difficulty making the final decision
• Survival mode during divorce literally shuts down our ability to notice positive experiences
• Practicing daily gratitude—even for basic things like "my car started"—rewires the brain toward positivity
• "Abundance flows" practice builds on gratitude by noticing unexpected positive moments throughout the day
• Noticing the good things happening around you creates a positive cycle where you see more abundance
Madisen Rose
www.betterhalftowhole.com
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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.
Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Welcome back to another episode of Reignite
Resilience.
I am your co-host, NatalieDavis, and I'm so excited to be
back with all of you.
Of course, joining us is PamCass.
Hello, Pam.
How are you?
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
Pam actually fantastic.
And for those of you who don'tknow, uh, today we do have a
guest with us.
She is local.
So all three of us are in adrizzly, rainy day.
And these kind of days make mewant to stay in my pajamas, curl
up in bed, and either Netflix orread a book.
And so we are going to bring asmuch energy to this interview as
(01:17):
we possibly can so that yeah,we're just gonna have fun and as
much as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
As much as possible.
We can be recording together ina spot on a sofa with the fluffy
blankets and the recordingequipment, but we also had a
jam-packed day.
So there's that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
We've literally been like back to back.
So we had no opportunity to dothat.
But eventually we're gonna havea studio, Natalie.
I envision a studio where we'vegot the fuzzy blankets and that
we can sit around on a couch andinvite guests to us.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
And so one day.
One day.
One day when our schedules aremuch, much lighter.
SPEAKER_03 (01:56):
That's funny because I know us and I feel like that's
not ever gonna be a day.
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
It could, it could.
I mean, if that's I mean, I justthink about the logistics in
terms of getting our guests andourselves as the co-hosts
together for the shows.
And then let's add in, you know,getting to a studio and and all
of that.
It's it'll be fun.
But if if you all are notwatching us as well, Pam and I
are back in black.
(02:21):
So, you know, happy fall.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
Winter is almost here.
It is, winter is coming.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
Oh my goodness.
Well, Pam, you said we had aguest and let our listeners know
who's joining us today.
And so we can dive in becauseI'm excited.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
This is kind of fun because a mutual friend of
Natalie's and myself, um,somebody we've both known for
years, recommended or connectedus uh with our guest today.
And so today we have MadisonRose.
She is the founder of BetterHave to Whole, a platform
dedicated to supportingindividuals through divorce
(02:56):
recovery and the renegotiationof relational trauma in the
nervous system.
Through digital resources,self-paced online courses, group
programs, and one-on-onesessions, Madison helps people
rebuild after divorce withintention, compassion, grit, and
(03:16):
self-trust.
So so excited for you to be heretoday with us.
So thank you.
I'm gonna really just kind ofhand it off to you for you to
kind of tell us your story thatkind of got you to where we are
today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me today.
I am laughing about us curlingup on a couch because I a friend
of mine came over last week todo a closet edit and I had a
coat.
And she's like, that is not acoat, it is a robe.
And I was wearing it thismorning on a call.
(03:50):
And I realized mid-call, I'mwearing a robe on a professional
call.
So I changed it look like arobe, according to my friend
Katie, who's a stylist, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
So I've had one of those like sweaters as well,
where the the collar just looksbig and fluffy and very robe
adjacent, but it's truly asweater, like a cardigan.
But when you're waist up on aZoom call, the assumption is
that you're in a robe.
Sorry, Madison.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Well, I know I caught it and I was like, oh no.
So I'm so excited to be herewith you today, and we'll share
a little bit about my story andhow I got to work in the divorce
recovery space, which is veryspecific.
I was one of those likestarry-eyed newlyweds, and I do
(04:48):
believe at that time, you know,had met the love of my life at
that time, and I wanted to staymarried.
We were not a good, healthypair.
And so the relationship over acouple of years really devolved,
and I was 30 when I gotdivorced, and so pretty young,
and needed lots of differentresources beyond therapy, which
(05:13):
was very helpful.
But the social and emotionalaspects of my life after getting
divorced, I really didn't haveany guidance on how my
friendships, navigating how myfriendships had changed, my
family dynamics, the little tinylike triggers like your name
being Mrs.
and not miss after divorce, likeall these little things that you
(05:36):
don't even notice when you'remarried because it feels good
and it's not a trigger.
And then when you're not marriedanymore, it's like I couldn't
escape my pain and myheartbreak, even though I was
trying to move on.
And so the work I do now isfocused on some of the social
and emotional aspects.
But then I'm also coming to theend of a somatic practitioner
(06:00):
training.
And thank you.
I'm I love it.
And it has taken the work I doto a much deeper level because
so many of the triggers orexperiences that I had, I would
have been able to navigate somuch more with so much less
(06:20):
suffering if I had had the toolsto support myself and regulating
my nervous system, but then alsothe true trauma renegotiation.
Cause there's so many thingsthat happen in our bodies and it
just takes over.
So it's like that reaction ofremoving your hand from a hot
stove.
It's like, even if you wantedto, your body is still gonna do
(06:43):
its thing.
So that's the work that I donow.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
Oh, I I so love that you are doing this, and I'm so
loved that you are here becausewhen I was getting ready for
this call today, I just kind ofthought about my journey when,
you know, I was married for 23years and nobody talks about
what it's the friendships.
We had friendships that werecouples that we traveled
together, how that completelychanged that identity of being a
(07:08):
wife and now it's single.
And I was getting a pedicurethis week, and the gal that was
doing my feet, she goes, So areyou single?
And I'm like, why did I feellike almost like embarrassed to
say, yeah, I'm I mean, I'mdating somebody, but I'm still
single.
I'm not married, and it's likethe stigma that you almost are
like embarrassed that you'resingle.
And so I love that you're doingthis work.
(07:30):
I think it's incredible.
So can we talk a little bitabout the social aspect of it?
Because nobody talks about thatwhen you're getting a divorce
and what that looks like.
Yeah, about my own experience orabout well, your own experience
and then what how you helppeople through navigating that
change.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Yeah.
So in my own experience, myex-husband and I were kind of
that social hub.
And so we had the big backyardand hosted everybody's parties.
And so when we broke up, andeven before we broke up, when
there was a lot of tension,people could tell.
And so that was really hard forme.
(08:11):
I stopped hosting, and that wassomething that I really loved.
And so that in our in ourfriendship community, there
wasn't really anyone who tookthat on.
And so in some ways, it feltlike so much of our community
and our friendships just sort ofdissolved, and people are not
always forthcoming with theirsupport because it can come
(08:35):
across like a question or aninterrogation, and people don't
always know how to ask how youare without being afraid they're
gonna stir something up whenyou're actually having a good
day.
So I would say, like for me,that was so much of why I
started Better Half to Hold.
And part of what I do with myclients is figuring out who is
(08:58):
still a part of your supportsystem and really giving some
structure to having one personthat you're gonna check in with
or that you have asked to checkin with you intentionally and
specifically every couple ofweeks, because time is really
weird when you are comingthrough a crisis or out of
(09:20):
crisis or in the recovery space.
And so having someone who youknow in the back of your head,
like, I know I'm gonna talk tothat person in two weeks, or I
know I'm gonna hear from them,and then putting some social
structure into your weeks, andit can be as simple as the one
friend that you go to yoga classwith on Tuesdays, but you just
(09:45):
put it into your schedule so youdon't have to think about it
because your emotional bank ispretty tapped because you're
processing a lot of other thingsand then setting something up
monthly with the same person,and you've specifically said,
I'm getting consistency in myschedule.
Can we plan on this?
Because by the time you get to apoint where you could be like, I
(10:06):
need a friend right now, you maynot see them for two weeks
because of schedules, like wewere talking about earlier.
So those are those are two ofthe like really at the
beginning, a couple of things.
And then also grieving the lossof that friendship or many
friendships, because they can'tbe the same because your
relationship has changed.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
And then I know my my friends were like well
intending to, you know, and youknow, I got invited to a few
dinners where I was the oddperson, you know, with a bunch
of you know, couples, and itfelt very awkward and then it
just kind of fizzled.
And and now I'm fine with it nowbecause it's been gosh almost 10
years.
But you know, you see thosevacations that now they're doing
(10:51):
as couples still, and you're Iwas like, oh, I wasn't invited.
I'm like, why would they invitea person by themselves?
I mean, that would beridiculous.
But yeah, having that new groupof social friends and then
making sure that it's somethingthat's planned on a consistent
basis.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Madison, do you feel or do you see that like because
the dynamic of the friendshipsshift, and even with the ex
partner, the person that youwere in a relationship, that
that dynamic shifts as well.
That there is more than just thestrength of having the
consistency of the people, butlike reevaluating the depth of
those relationships as well andwhat that looks like.
(11:30):
Is that an important piece orsomething that individuals
should put on their radar?
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
It it comes up pretty naturally because I think
the people who are reallyinvested in the relationship are
present.
And then the ones that aren't dokind of fall away.
And then I think another kind ofsurprise is the people that do
show up that you maybe didn'tthink cared that much and come
(11:56):
in into your life.
So there is, there's not a hugeemphasis placed on evaluating
all of the relationships, but itdoes happen pretty naturally.
It's like who is here?
Who is showing up?
Who is calling and reallyappreciating those
relationships?
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
Tell us about your journey in forming better
half-to-hole.
What did that look like?
Because I I can't imagine thatyou went through your experience
and you said, you know what I'lldo right now, in addition to
dealing with all of my emotionalbaggage and trauma and
everything, is start a businessbecause small business ownership
is easy.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Oh yeah.
Might as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
Might as well throw it in there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
You know, let's change everything.
Exactly.
Risk.
What's risk?
Exactly.
So I got divorced in 2018 afterwe had been separated, separated
or like in pretty active for me,it felt like crisis for two and
a half years.
And so it was a pretty slowdeath of the relationship.
(12:59):
And I had like finally gotten toa place where I was like, okay,
there is no future here.
And in order for me to move onwith my life, I must do
something differently.
And so it it really wasn't until2020.
I was up at Horse Tooth, whichis a reservoir just outside of
(13:19):
Fort Collins or in Fort Collins,I guess.
And my sister-in-law and I werepaddle boarding, and she and I
were just talking about likewhat is next for me
professionally, because I hadworked at United Way of Larimer
County as a fundraiser, and itwas such a supportive work
environment.
(13:39):
And I think it was allowed me tohave stability while I was going
through the divorce.
But I didn't intend to be afundraiser forever.
And so just, I mean, even twoyears after the divorce, just
beginning to explore what couldbe next.
And on the paddle boards, mysister-in-law asked me, What do
(14:01):
you feel like you have to offerthe world?
And I said, My divorceexperience, because it felt so
different, then most of myfriends are still married.
Most of my friends havefamilies.
Most of my friends, of course,have challenges, but have
committed spouses.
And so that is a gift and alsowas not my reality.
(14:24):
And so that is really where theidea started.
And for a long time, I didn'thave any intention of working
one-on-one with people because Iam not a clinician and didn't
know if I had the emotionalcapacity to support someone
actively divorcing.
And so that is originally why Istarted with the like digital
(14:48):
resources, the online courses,so that I could share what I had
learned, what had helped me,what years of therapy had taught
me, what all the books andpodcasts I could synthesize and
say, like, this is the realdeal.
This is what actually helped me.
And it really wasn't until thislast year after dedicating
myself to my own healing on asomatic level with the nervous
(15:12):
system work and then doing thepractitioner program that I felt
like I I do now have thecapacity to support someone in
real time, one-on-one, as theynavigate their own trauma, but
then also the healing and beingable to recognize that yes, you
have had a hard time.
(15:34):
Yes, you have suffered.
But then also how much capacitydo you have for joy, for love,
for laughter?
And we're not trying to saydon't suffer, only have joy, but
to expand the capacity so youcan have both and not be totally
derailed when something comesup.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
I think that's huge.
And Madison, even as you shareyour own story, you said for a
couple of years you realize thatthis was not going into a
direction of success or or beingable to successfully continue on
with that marriage.
And so you have years that thatbuilt up before actually going
through the divorce experienceitself.
And so when you're talking aboutfinding joy and holding space in
(16:14):
terms of being compassionate andand loving and just even like
self-love and care, how are youable to work with individuals to
refocus the attention to that?
Because so much time is oftenspent in that survival mode,
right?
It's maybe it'll get better,maybe it'll turn around, maybe
it's just me, right?
Like all of the things that wesay to ourselves.
(16:36):
How do you help individuals inin processing through that piece
of it?
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yeah, I love this question because I think that
there is absolutely a place forhope and reconciliation in
relationships.
And especially if you want it towork out, sometimes that, well,
just give it a little more time,or I'll just give it, you know,
maybe I'm overreacting, or maybethis is this isn't as bad as I
(16:59):
thought it was.
I think those are ways we try tostay in it because we hope
things will change.
Because divorces hard.
That's a big change.
And so there is safety andfeelings of safety and security
in staying.
So I think hope is reallyimportant to help people keep
going, especially in those, Idon't know, what do you call
(17:22):
them?
The pre-divorce years or thelike challenging years.
Because some people do make itto the other side and stay
together and have a healthy,fulfilling relationship.
Cause I don't think it's fair tosay we'll never have those
times, because we will, Ibelieve.
But we have to start reallysmall in the looking for those
(17:46):
moments of joy, looking forsmall things to be grateful for,
because it, especially ifsomeone's had a really difficult
time or has been in thatsurvival mode, you are
singularly focused because yourbody from a nervous system
standpoint, from a survivalstance, you are trying to get
(18:06):
through.
So you really do shut off all ofthe other channels, basically,
in your brain.
It's like, nope, we are onsurvival channel and joy channel
is like not on air.
So starting small.
SPEAKER_02 (18:19):
It's the after midnight, grainy television,
right?
Like we'll come back.
Regular programming will resumeshortly.
Right.
unknown (18:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
So there's a couple practices that were extremely
helpful for me in the actuallike divorcing separation, and
then even after divorce process.
And I had a really dedicatedgratitude practice, which for
some people sounds a littletrite or too fluffy, but it
(18:47):
actually is neuroscience.
And if you can have some kind ofconsistent gratitude practice, I
sat down every day at work.
It was the first thing I did.
And there were some days when Iliterally copied and pasted from
the day before because I didn'thave the mental energy to come
up with a new thing.
So I was like, well, my carstarted.
(19:09):
I have health insurance.
There's coffee in the coffee potlounge.
I have clothes, you know, likevery simple things.
Someone smiled at me when Iwalked in the office, like
really, really small things.
And then over time, that evolvedinto now what I call abundance
flows, which is an expectantgratitude practice.
(19:32):
So it's really focused on theextra, on the overflow, on the
things that aren't so basic.
But it could be like you got thefront parking spot when you were
running late, or the serveraccidentally delivered
mozzarella sticks to your tableand they let you keep them.
It's like things that you wouldnot be like, you know what I
(19:54):
want today, universe?
I want raspberries to be two forone.
You know, like, but they'rethese, that's the extra.
So that has helped me shift myperspective into being able to
notice both and tell my brain,like, it's actually okay to
notice good things too.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
Well, I think the more you're doing the gratitude,
what you focus on expands.
So then you are noticing thoseabundance that are flowing into
you that were happening, but youjust didn't even notice them
because you were in such thatfor me, it was I was like in
this victim mode of, oh my gosh,I'm going through a divorce, my
this is gonna be terrible.
And you know, all the things Itell myself or told myself.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Well, it's so present.
And it's sometimes you can't, itdoesn't feel like you can get
any distance from it because itis every day and a part of all
of your moments or most of themthroughout the day.
SPEAKER_03 (20:46):
So now do you still do the gratitudes in the morning
and then this abundance flows iskind of uh like icing on top?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
I don't do the gratitudes anymore.
Not every day, but I do I don'tdo it every day.
I still have a list, but theabundance flows has become more
like what do you got for metoday?
So it becomes become moreplayful.
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
I feel that I started to experience that and
live that.
Um, my partner and I went onjust a quick getaway a few
weekends ago.
And I mean, it was just when youtalk about abundance flows, it
was like one thing afteranother.
I mean, like finding cash, likeliterally in our path in front
of us, where people had justlike walked over it previously
(21:31):
and were like, oh, look, there'sa wad of money sitting right in
front of us.
I'm like, and and so it turnedinto this thing where something
amazing would happen, likesmall, amazing, abundant things
would happen.
And I'm like, this town justloves us, right?
I'm like, it this town justloves us.
It loves us here.
We didn't have reservations intoa spot.
They were like, we can get youin.
Come on in.
I'm like, it, you all just loveus here, right?
(21:51):
It was just kind of like thisrecognition.
I'm like, y'all are justeveryone's just so happy that
we're here.
We're so happy that we're here.
Just so it does like it starts,it just keeps rippling.
Yeah, yeah.
I've carried that on.
So I didn't let that just staywith the trip.
It's you know, in these momentswhere you get the front row
parking spot, or every lightstays green for you when you're
traveling, or you know, youknock a presentation out of the
(22:14):
park or whatever.
It's like, ugh, it just everyonejust loves me here.
This is great.
Um, I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
I love that practice.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna borrowthat phrase, abundance flows,
because I think I think that'sincredible because it happens
all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
It happens all the time.
I didn't have a name for it.
So I am so grateful for the namebefore.
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
And if you do share on social media, tag me because
I will reshare it because Ithink it is such a good reminder
to other people to like giveyourself 10 seconds and just
slow down and pay attention tolike what's actually one un
unexpected amazing thing thathappened today.
SPEAKER_03 (22:49):
I love it, and I think you know what?
We can create this ripple effectof people, you know, sharing
their stories of abundanceflows.
So I I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
I will tag in on it for sure.
I've got a couple that I need toI need to share.
I I love that.
And you're right.
I mean, the I think more themore you do it, the more you
make it part of your practice ornot even your practice, just a
way of life.
As you said, Pam, like the moreyou start to recognize the
little things, and that's whatmakes this journey so beautiful,
are all the little things thathappen along the way, right?
(23:21):
They're not the big monumentousthings that that uh blow our
socks off all the time.
Like there's some fabulous,amazing things that are
happening throughout the day.
SPEAKER_03 (23:29):
I just I remember going through my divorce when I
was living with, I had to movein with my parents and I had to
live with my parents since highschool, and I was sharing a room
with my daughter and my son.
And yeah, so I was doing agratitude walk every morning,
and I, and for me, I had to saya different gratitude every day.
So I could not repeat the same.
Talk about hard.
Like when you're in a victimmindset, that's really hard.
(23:51):
But there is this shift whereall of a sudden you're like
noticing stuff that had beenthere, but you just didn't
notice because you just had yourkind of your blinders on.
So, like you said, you startnoticing abundance flowing into
your life.
You just like you, Natalie.
It's like all of a sudden, it'slike everywhere around you, and
it's like it's always beenthere.
It's just you've not taken thetime to appreciate notice it.
(24:15):
You're focusing on other things.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(24:40):
Resilience.
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
SPEAKER_02 (00:41):
Welcome back to another episode of Reignite
Resilience.
I am your co-host, NatalieDavis, and I'm so excited to be
back with all of you.
Of course, joining us is PamCass.
Hello, Pam.
How are you?
SPEAKER_03 (00:54):
Pam actually fantastic.
And for those of you who don'tknow, uh, today we do have a
guest with us.
She is local.
So all three of us are in adrizzly, rainy day.
And these kind of days make mewant to stay in my pajamas, curl
up in bed, and either Netflix orread a book.
And so we are going to bring asmuch energy to this interview as
(01:17):
we possibly can so that yeah,we're just gonna have fun and as
much as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
As much as possible.
We can be recording together ina spot on a sofa with the fluffy
blankets and the recordingequipment, but we also had a
jam-packed day.
So there's that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:35):
We've literally been like back to back.
So we had no opportunity to dothat.
But eventually we're gonna havea studio, Natalie.
I envision a studio where we'vegot the fuzzy blankets and that
we can sit around on a couch andinvite guests to us.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
And so one day.
One day.
One day when our schedules aremuch, much lighter.
SPEAKER_03 (01:56):
That's funny because I know us and I feel like that's
not ever gonna be a day.
SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
It could, it could.
I mean, if that's I mean, I justthink about the logistics in
terms of getting our guests andourselves as the co-hosts
together for the shows.
And then let's add in, you know,getting to a studio and and all
of that.
It's it'll be fun.
But if if you all are notwatching us as well, Pam and I
are back in black.
(02:21):
So, you know, happy fall.
SPEAKER_03 (02:25):
Winter is almost here.
It is, winter is coming.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
Oh my goodness.
Well, Pam, you said we had aguest and let our listeners know
who's joining us today.
And so we can dive in becauseI'm excited.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
This is kind of fun because a mutual friend of
Natalie's and myself, um,somebody we've both known for
years, recommended or connectedus uh with our guest today.
And so today we have MadisonRose.
She is the founder of BetterHave to Whole, a platform
dedicated to supportingindividuals through divorce
(02:56):
recovery and the renegotiationof relational trauma in the
nervous system.
Through digital resources,self-paced online courses, group
programs, and one-on-onesessions, Madison helps people
rebuild after divorce withintention, compassion, grit, and
(03:16):
self-trust.
So so excited for you to be heretoday with us.
So thank you.
I'm gonna really just kind ofhand it off to you for you to
kind of tell us your story thatkind of got you to where we are
today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:30):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me today.
I am laughing about us curlingup on a couch because I a friend
of mine came over last week todo a closet edit and I had a
coat.
And she's like, that is not acoat, it is a robe.
And I was wearing it thismorning on a call.
(03:50):
And I realized mid-call, I'mwearing a robe on a professional
call.
So I changed it look like arobe, according to my friend
Katie, who's a stylist, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
So I've had one of those like sweaters as well,
where the the collar just looksbig and fluffy and very robe
adjacent, but it's truly asweater, like a cardigan.
But when you're waist up on aZoom call, the assumption is
that you're in a robe.
Sorry, Madison.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Well, I know I caught it and I was like, oh no.
So I'm so excited to be herewith you today, and we'll share
a little bit about my story andhow I got to work in the divorce
recovery space, which is veryspecific.
I was one of those likestarry-eyed newlyweds, and I do
(04:48):
believe at that time, you know,had met the love of my life at
that time, and I wanted to staymarried.
We were not a good, healthypair.
And so the relationship over acouple of years really devolved,
and I was 30 when I gotdivorced, and so pretty young,
and needed lots of differentresources beyond therapy, which
(05:13):
was very helpful.
But the social and emotionalaspects of my life after getting
divorced, I really didn't haveany guidance on how my
friendships, navigating how myfriendships had changed, my
family dynamics, the little tinylike triggers like your name
being Mrs.
and not miss after divorce, likeall these little things that you
(05:36):
don't even notice when you'remarried because it feels good
and it's not a trigger.
And then when you're not marriedanymore, it's like I couldn't
escape my pain and myheartbreak, even though I was
trying to move on.
And so the work I do now isfocused on some of the social
and emotional aspects.
But then I'm also coming to theend of a somatic practitioner
(06:00):
training.
And thank you.
I'm I love it.
And it has taken the work I doto a much deeper level because
so many of the triggers orexperiences that I had, I would
have been able to navigate somuch more with so much less
(06:20):
suffering if I had had the toolsto support myself and regulating
my nervous system, but then alsothe true trauma renegotiation.
Cause there's so many thingsthat happen in our bodies and it
just takes over.
So it's like that reaction ofremoving your hand from a hot
stove.
It's like, even if you wantedto, your body is still gonna do
(06:43):
its thing.
So that's the work that I donow.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
Oh, I I so love that you are doing this, and I'm so
loved that you are here becausewhen I was getting ready for
this call today, I just kind ofthought about my journey when,
you know, I was married for 23years and nobody talks about
what it's the friendships.
We had friendships that werecouples that we traveled
together, how that completelychanged that identity of being a
(07:08):
wife and now it's single.
And I was getting a pedicurethis week, and the gal that was
doing my feet, she goes, So areyou single?
And I'm like, why did I feellike almost like embarrassed to
say, yeah, I'm I mean, I'mdating somebody, but I'm still
single.
I'm not married, and it's likethe stigma that you almost are
like embarrassed that you'resingle.
And so I love that you're doingthis work.
(07:30):
I think it's incredible.
So can we talk a little bitabout the social aspect of it?
Because nobody talks about thatwhen you're getting a divorce
and what that looks like.
Yeah, about my own experience orabout well, your own experience
and then what how you helppeople through navigating that
change.
SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Yeah.
So in my own experience, myex-husband and I were kind of
that social hub.
And so we had the big backyardand hosted everybody's parties.
And so when we broke up, andeven before we broke up, when
there was a lot of tension,people could tell.
And so that was really hard forme.
(08:11):
I stopped hosting, and that wassomething that I really loved.
And so that in our in ourfriendship community, there
wasn't really anyone who tookthat on.
And so in some ways, it feltlike so much of our community
and our friendships just sort ofdissolved, and people are not
always forthcoming with theirsupport because it can come
(08:35):
across like a question or aninterrogation, and people don't
always know how to ask how youare without being afraid they're
gonna stir something up whenyou're actually having a good
day.
So I would say, like for me,that was so much of why I
started Better Half to Hold.
And part of what I do with myclients is figuring out who is
(08:58):
still a part of your supportsystem and really giving some
structure to having one personthat you're gonna check in with
or that you have asked to checkin with you intentionally and
specifically every couple ofweeks, because time is really
weird when you are comingthrough a crisis or out of
(09:20):
crisis or in the recovery space.
And so having someone who youknow in the back of your head,
like, I know I'm gonna talk tothat person in two weeks, or I
know I'm gonna hear from them,and then putting some social
structure into your weeks, andit can be as simple as the one
friend that you go to yoga classwith on Tuesdays, but you just
(09:45):
put it into your schedule so youdon't have to think about it
because your emotional bank ispretty tapped because you're
processing a lot of other thingsand then setting something up
monthly with the same person,and you've specifically said,
I'm getting consistency in myschedule.
Can we plan on this?
Because by the time you get to apoint where you could be like, I
(10:06):
need a friend right now, you maynot see them for two weeks
because of schedules, like wewere talking about earlier.
So those are those are two ofthe like really at the
beginning, a couple of things.
And then also grieving the lossof that friendship or many
friendships, because they can'tbe the same because your
relationship has changed.
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
And then I know my my friends were like well
intending to, you know, and youknow, I got invited to a few
dinners where I was the oddperson, you know, with a bunch
of you know, couples, and itfelt very awkward and then it
just kind of fizzled.
And and now I'm fine with it nowbecause it's been gosh almost 10
years.
But you know, you see thosevacations that now they're doing
(10:51):
as couples still, and you're Iwas like, oh, I wasn't invited.
I'm like, why would they invitea person by themselves?
I mean, that would beridiculous.
But yeah, having that new groupof social friends and then
making sure that it's somethingthat's planned on a consistent
basis.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Madison, do you feel or do you see that like because
the dynamic of the friendshipsshift, and even with the ex
partner, the person that youwere in a relationship, that
that dynamic shifts as well.
That there is more than just thestrength of having the
consistency of the people, butlike reevaluating the depth of
those relationships as well andwhat that looks like.
(11:30):
Is that an important piece orsomething that individuals
should put on their radar?
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
It it comes up pretty naturally because I think
the people who are reallyinvested in the relationship are
present.
And then the ones that aren't dokind of fall away.
And then I think another kind ofsurprise is the people that do
show up that you maybe didn'tthink cared that much and come
(11:56):
in into your life.
So there is, there's not a hugeemphasis placed on evaluating
all of the relationships, but itdoes happen pretty naturally.
It's like who is here?
Who is showing up?
Who is calling and reallyappreciating those
relationships?
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
Tell us about your journey in forming better
half-to-hole.
What did that look like?
Because I I can't imagine thatyou went through your experience
and you said, you know what I'lldo right now, in addition to
dealing with all of my emotionalbaggage and trauma and
everything, is start a businessbecause small business ownership
is easy.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Oh yeah.
Might as well.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
Might as well throw it in there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
You know, let's change everything.
Exactly.
Risk.
What's risk?
Exactly.
So I got divorced in 2018 afterwe had been separated, separated
or like in pretty active for me,it felt like crisis for two and
a half years.
And so it was a pretty slowdeath of the relationship.
(12:59):
And I had like finally gotten toa place where I was like, okay,
there is no future here.
And in order for me to move onwith my life, I must do
something differently.
And so it it really wasn't until2020.
I was up at Horse Tooth, whichis a reservoir just outside of
(13:19):
Fort Collins or in Fort Collins,I guess.
And my sister-in-law and I werepaddle boarding, and she and I
were just talking about likewhat is next for me
professionally, because I hadworked at United Way of Larimer
County as a fundraiser, and itwas such a supportive work
environment.
(13:39):
And I think it was allowed me tohave stability while I was going
through the divorce.
But I didn't intend to be afundraiser forever.
And so just, I mean, even twoyears after the divorce, just
beginning to explore what couldbe next.
And on the paddle boards, mysister-in-law asked me, What do
(14:01):
you feel like you have to offerthe world?
And I said, My divorceexperience, because it felt so
different, then most of myfriends are still married.
Most of my friends havefamilies.
Most of my friends, of course,have challenges, but have
committed spouses.
And so that is a gift and alsowas not my reality.
(14:24):
And so that is really where theidea started.
And for a long time, I didn'thave any intention of working
one-on-one with people because Iam not a clinician and didn't
know if I had the emotionalcapacity to support someone
actively divorcing.
And so that is originally why Istarted with the like digital
(14:48):
resources, the online courses,so that I could share what I had
learned, what had helped me,what years of therapy had taught
me, what all the books andpodcasts I could synthesize and
say, like, this is the realdeal.
This is what actually helped me.
And it really wasn't until thislast year after dedicating
myself to my own healing on asomatic level with the nervous
(15:12):
system work and then doing thepractitioner program that I felt
like I I do now have thecapacity to support someone in
real time, one-on-one, as theynavigate their own trauma, but
then also the healing and beingable to recognize that yes, you
have had a hard time.
(15:34):
Yes, you have suffered.
But then also how much capacitydo you have for joy, for love,
for laughter?
And we're not trying to saydon't suffer, only have joy, but
to expand the capacity so youcan have both and not be totally
derailed when something comesup.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
I think that's huge.
And Madison, even as you shareyour own story, you said for a
couple of years you realize thatthis was not going into a
direction of success or or beingable to successfully continue on
with that marriage.
And so you have years that thatbuilt up before actually going
through the divorce experienceitself.
And so when you're talking aboutfinding joy and holding space in
(16:14):
terms of being compassionate andand loving and just even like
self-love and care, how are youable to work with individuals to
refocus the attention to that?
Because so much time is oftenspent in that survival mode,
right?
It's maybe it'll get better,maybe it'll turn around, maybe
it's just me, right?
Like all of the things that wesay to ourselves.
(16:36):
How do you help individuals inin processing through that piece
of it?
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yeah, I love this question because I think that
there is absolutely a place forhope and reconciliation in
relationships.
And especially if you want it towork out, sometimes that, well,
just give it a little more time,or I'll just give it, you know,
maybe I'm overreacting, or maybethis is this isn't as bad as I
(16:59):
thought it was.
I think those are ways we try tostay in it because we hope
things will change.
Because divorces hard.
That's a big change.
And so there is safety andfeelings of safety and security
in staying.
So I think hope is reallyimportant to help people keep
going, especially in those, Idon't know, what do you call
(17:22):
them?
The pre-divorce years or thelike challenging years.
Because some people do make itto the other side and stay
together and have a healthy,fulfilling relationship.
Cause I don't think it's fair tosay we'll never have those
times, because we will, Ibelieve.
But we have to start reallysmall in the looking for those
(17:46):
moments of joy, looking forsmall things to be grateful for,
because it, especially ifsomeone's had a really difficult
time or has been in thatsurvival mode, you are
singularly focused because yourbody from a nervous system
standpoint, from a survivalstance, you are trying to get
(18:06):
through.
So you really do shut off all ofthe other channels, basically,
in your brain.
It's like, nope, we are onsurvival channel and joy channel
is like not on air.
So starting small.
SPEAKER_02 (18:19):
It's the after midnight, grainy television,
right?
Like we'll come back.
Regular programming will resumeshortly.
Right.
unknown (18:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
So there's a couple practices that were extremely
helpful for me in the actuallike divorcing separation, and
then even after divorce process.
And I had a really dedicatedgratitude practice, which for
some people sounds a littletrite or too fluffy, but it
(18:47):
actually is neuroscience.
And if you can have some kind ofconsistent gratitude practice, I
sat down every day at work.
It was the first thing I did.
And there were some days when Iliterally copied and pasted from
the day before because I didn'thave the mental energy to come
up with a new thing.
So I was like, well, my carstarted.
(19:09):
I have health insurance.
There's coffee in the coffee potlounge.
I have clothes, you know, likevery simple things.
Someone smiled at me when Iwalked in the office, like
really, really small things.
And then over time, that evolvedinto now what I call abundance
flows, which is an expectantgratitude practice.
(19:32):
So it's really focused on theextra, on the overflow, on the
things that aren't so basic.
But it could be like you got thefront parking spot when you were
running late, or the serveraccidentally delivered
mozzarella sticks to your tableand they let you keep them.
It's like things that you wouldnot be like, you know what I
(19:54):
want today, universe?
I want raspberries to be two forone.
You know, like, but they'rethese, that's the extra.
So that has helped me shift myperspective into being able to
notice both and tell my brain,like, it's actually okay to
notice good things too.
SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
Well, I think the more you're doing the gratitude,
what you focus on expands.
So then you are noticing thoseabundance that are flowing into
you that were happening, but youjust didn't even notice them
because you were in such thatfor me, it was I was like in
this victim mode of, oh my gosh,I'm going through a divorce, my
this is gonna be terrible.
And you know, all the things Itell myself or told myself.
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Well, it's so present.
And it's sometimes you can't, itdoesn't feel like you can get
any distance from it because itis every day and a part of all
of your moments or most of themthroughout the day.
SPEAKER_03 (20:46):
So now do you still do the gratitudes in the morning
and then this abundance flows iskind of uh like icing on top?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
I don't do the gratitudes anymore.
Not every day, but I do I don'tdo it every day.
I still have a list, but theabundance flows has become more
like what do you got for metoday?
So it becomes become moreplayful.
Yeah, yeah.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
I feel that I started to experience that and
live that.
Um, my partner and I went onjust a quick getaway a few
weekends ago.
And I mean, it was just when youtalk about abundance flows, it
was like one thing afteranother.
I mean, like finding cash, likeliterally in our path in front
of us, where people had justlike walked over it previously
(21:31):
and were like, oh, look, there'sa wad of money sitting right in
front of us.
I'm like, and and so it turnedinto this thing where something
amazing would happen, likesmall, amazing, abundant things
would happen.
And I'm like, this town justloves us, right?
I'm like, it this town justloves us.
It loves us here.
We didn't have reservations intoa spot.
They were like, we can get youin.
Come on in.
I'm like, it, you all just loveus here, right?
(21:51):
It was just kind of like thisrecognition.
I'm like, y'all are justeveryone's just so happy that
we're here.
We're so happy that we're here.
Just so it does like it starts,it just keeps rippling.
Yeah, yeah.
I've carried that on.
So I didn't let that just staywith the trip.
It's you know, in these momentswhere you get the front row
parking spot, or every lightstays green for you when you're
traveling, or you know, youknock a presentation out of the
(22:14):
park or whatever.
It's like, ugh, it just everyonejust loves me here.
This is great.
Um, I love it.
SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
I love that practice.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna borrowthat phrase, abundance flows,
because I think I think that'sincredible because it happens
all the time.
SPEAKER_02 (22:27):
It happens all the time.
I didn't have a name for it.
So I am so grateful for the namebefore.
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
And if you do share on social media, tag me because
I will reshare it because Ithink it is such a good reminder
to other people to like giveyourself 10 seconds and just
slow down and pay attention tolike what's actually one un
unexpected amazing thing thathappened today.
SPEAKER_03 (22:49):
I love it, and I think you know what?
We can create this ripple effectof people, you know, sharing
their stories of abundanceflows.
So I I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:59):
I will tag in on it for sure.
I've got a couple that I need toI need to share.
I I love that.
And you're right.
I mean, the I think more themore you do it, the more you
make it part of your practice ornot even your practice, just a
way of life.
As you said, Pam, like the moreyou start to recognize the
little things, and that's whatmakes this journey so beautiful,
are all the little things thathappen along the way, right?
(23:21):
They're not the big monumentousthings that that uh blow our
socks off all the time.
Like there's some fabulous,amazing things that are
happening throughout the day.
SPEAKER_03 (23:29):
I just I remember going through my divorce when I
was living with, I had to movein with my parents and I had to
live with my parents since highschool, and I was sharing a room
with my daughter and my son.
And yeah, so I was doing agratitude walk every morning,
and I, and for me, I had to saya different gratitude every day.
So I could not repeat the same.
Talk about hard.
Like when you're in a victimmindset, that's really hard.
(23:51):
But there is this shift whereall of a sudden you're like
noticing stuff that had beenthere, but you just didn't
notice because you just had yourkind of your blinders on.
So, like you said, you startnoticing abundance flowing into
your life.
You just like you, Natalie.
It's like all of a sudden, it'slike everywhere around you, and
it's like it's always beenthere.
It's just you've not taken thetime to appreciate notice it.
(24:15):
You're focusing on other things.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(24:40):
Resilience.
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