Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
All of us reach a
point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
Resilience where we willventure into the heart of the
(00:27):
human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome back to
another episode of Reignite
Resilience.
I am your co-host, natalieDavis, and I'm so excited to be
back with all of you today, andjoining me, of course, is your
co-host, pam Kass.
Hello Pam, how are you?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Fantastic.
It's a beautiful day and youand I are kind of.
We'll let our listeners knowthat we've got the cover of our
book, the interior of our book,and it's in production right now
.
And we're we've got the coverof our book, the interior of our
book, and it's in productionright now and it's getting a
little little surreal.
So, for those of you who knowus, you will probably be getting
a reach out to see if you willbe part of our launch team.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's becoming a
little real and it's exactly.
If you and I have shared thesame space and air in the last
year, you're going to hear fromme, so just be prepared.
There it is.
I love that.
Well before we dive in, I knowthat we're going to have
listeners that are curious,because on our last episode, you
shared a little bit of insightbehind your silent retreat.
How are you days, weeks afterthe silent retreat?
How are you feeling?
(01:41):
What have you downloaded?
How's it going?
Silent retreat, how are youfeeling?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What have you
downloaded?
How's it going?
So, have I changed my morningroutine?
No, I just went right back into.
You know the old habits.
Have I spent more time awayfrom my phone and technology?
Yes, now, when I take my dog, Idon't bring anything with me
and it's much easier for me.
Before I was getting reallyanxious about, oh my gosh, what
am I going to miss.
Now I'm just kind of like, eh,it'll be fine, and I'm spending
(02:07):
more time kind of just outdoors,just being a little more.
I think I'm more aware of mysurroundings when I'm outdoors
now, which is good, and I amdoing some meditating, like this
weekend I was down in thesprings and I sat out on a porch
.
I didn't bring anything with meand I just closed my eyes and
listened to the birds and wasable to get into a meditative
(02:29):
state, which I've never beenable to do before.
So, yeah, so it went reallywell.
I've shared it with a lot ofpeople and am encouraging people
, because everyone I say it to,they're like, oh, I could never
do that.
I could never do that.
I'm like, yeah, well, I didn'tthink so either, but actually
you can, and I did not burstinto flames like I thought I
would so.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Exactly.
Well, we're glad to hear thatyou're still doing fine and
still uncovering and peelingback the layers as you go
through it.
Right, it's not that you weregoing into it expecting some big
, massive, life-changing,life-altering experience, but it
is.
I think that it's definitelyput a spotlight on some key
areas for you and given you achance to, like you said, just
be more present and havingappreciation for everything
around us.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yes, absolutely.
And it was such a powerfulreminder because I had a
coaching call this week with acoaching client that he was a
student.
I've known him for years and helost a very dear friend,
someone he considered a brother,very unexpectedly young, like
61.
And just, it was such areminder of the pause, the
(03:34):
presence and just how we don'thave we don't know what's
happening tomorrow, and so ifwe're just constantly just
checking the boxes and doing thetasks, you know we may wake up
one day and not wake up.
Yeah, exactly, and what have wemissed?
So, yeah, so good reminder,love it.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Love it Well,
wonderful.
Well, today we haven't doneanything adventurous for our
listeners.
We're not going to report outthat we've done any other
retreats or things like that,but we do have a wonderful guest
that's joining us today.
So, pam, why don't you let ourlisteners know who's joining us
today?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yes, today we have
Amira K S Berger, mba, cva, cfre
.
She is an award-winningcommunication and DEI leader,
author, professor and speaker.
She serves as Executive VicePresident and Global Head of the
DEI Advisory at Edelman, whereshe provides senior counsel on
(04:30):
reputation, equity strategiesand leadership communication,
especially in healthcare andcorporate environments.
The author of the upcoming bookthe Price of Nice why Comfort
Keeps Us Stuck and Four Actionsfor Real Change.
So excited to have you with ustoday.
(04:52):
And Natalie has an advantageshe has met you before.
She has heard your story.
I have not, our listeners havenot, so I would love to hear
your story.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you both, first of all,for the gift of time and space
to be here with you.
I always love talking aboutthis book baby that is about to
be out in the world, but alsojust getting to talk about it,
especially with other women,because I think that's who it's
going to resonate with verydeeply, in particular because we
(05:23):
know how to play nice and we'vebeen conditioned to play nice
in very specific and deep ways.
But a little bit about me,amira Barger, as you mentioned,
I am so many things to so manypeople.
I talk a lot about the layersof my identity because I think
that's so important to peopleunderstanding a little bit about
(05:44):
why I took the time to write awhole book.
But I am black, disabled,cisgender, heterosexual, a
September Virgo.
That one's one of my favoriteidentities.
We all are just the Virgo call.
This is the.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
TV you see, the
universe knew that we needed to
be together to talk.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I'm a communications
executive, a writer, professor,
a partner to my 20 plus yearpartner, jonathan, and a parent
to my now 12 year old going on30.
Sometimes it feels likedaughter Audrey, and I'm also a
fur baby mom to my two dogs,bucky and Potato.
So there are many layers to whoI am that have really helped
(06:29):
shape my world and how I show upin the world, including a very
interesting upbringing, whichNatalie got to hear about last
time we were together.
My parents actually raised usduring the formative years of my
childhood on the tiny island ofGuam.
It is 30 miles long, eight mileswide and I think today there's
(06:50):
about 150,000 people.
So it was like growing up in a,you know, mid-sized town where
everybody knew everybody and seethe same faces.
And my parents were actuallynot military that's a good guess
and most people's first guessbut my parents were actually
ministers and so we were therehelping people with a host of
(07:11):
things, of course their faith.
But before you can addresssomeone's faith needs, you have
to think about the basics, likefood in your belly, clothes on
your back and a roof over yourhead, and we did a lot of work
to just help meet people's basicneeds and to be in community
with them.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I love that, I love
that.
And then making your way backto the main island.
What was that journey?
How did you come back to themainland, the mainland United
States.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
So it was right
around Y2K because we thought
the world was ending right.
All the computers were going toshut down and roll back to 1900
and nobody knew what was goingto happen.
We had extra canned goods andextra water and flashlights and
a generator right, we wereprepared.
And then we thought maybe weshouldn't be in this remote
(08:00):
place where everything has to beshipped and flown in in the
middle of nowhere.
If the world's going to end,maybe we should go back to a
bigger place.
So we made our way back to themainland United States,
california.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, love that, love
that.
And then your journey into thecorporate space.
Tell us a little bit about thatjourney, because you I mean
just hearing your bio, as Pamintroduced you quite a few
accomplishments.
You have what we like to say inthe real estate world the
alphabet soup behind your name,right Like all of the
(08:34):
designations and thecertifications you have invested
in your career.
Tell us a little bit about yourprofessional journey.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I always knew I
wanted to be in the healthcare
space, and I do get to practicecommunications and DEI in the
world of health, the entirehealth ecosystem, everything
from hospital systems to medicalschools to pharma you name it
and so much of that wasinfluenced, in fact, by my
upbringing.
One of the most inaccessibleresources for us to help provide
(09:06):
people with when my parentswere serving community as
ministers was health care.
It's one of the most expensive,it's hard to come by and it was
something that always stuckwith me that it was something
people needed and a basic humanright.
And yet so many people had togo without good health care
physical and mental health careand so I knew I wanted to be a
(09:29):
part of the solution and dosomething about that someday.
And so I started myundergraduate career, my first
four years as a pre-med student,and I did that for three years.
And then I took a generaleducation class.
It was an intro to businessclass, and in that class, bonnie
Stachowiak who's a dear friendtoday, but Professor Stachowiak
(09:52):
to me then Bonnie Stachowiak,who's a dear friend today, but
Professor Stachowiak to me thenshe had talked to us about one
aspect of business I had neverconsidered nonprofits.
Her mother was the CEO of anonprofit organization and in my
very young, naive mind Ithought that everyone at those
nonprofits were these saintlywonderful volunteers.
It did not cross my mind thatit was a career path or that
(10:17):
this is what these people did asvocation to feed themselves and
their families in addition tohelping community.
And so I learned otherwisethrough Bonnie, and she had
noticed that I'd always had aknack for communications and
presenting.
And I mentioned I'm a minister'skid and oftentimes that's the
case You're often thrust on astage and meant to lead and so
(10:38):
you're talking in front ofpeople and presenting all the
time or performing little skitsand Christmas plays and things.
And so I really did have thisupbringing and this training of
speaking to people andpresenting and through Bonnie's
influence I actually startedexploring what I could do to
(11:00):
help the world of healthcare andpatients with communications,
because the idea of being aphysician and the reality of
being a physician very quicklybecame actualized for me.
I was in an advanced programduring my undergrad where I got
to shadow clinicians and I gotto go into these spaces and
(11:21):
start to understand earlier thanmost pre-med students what that
career would be like, and so Iended up switching in my junior
year of college from pre-med tomarketing and communications and
found my way to helpingpatients, advancing health
equity and putting good back outinto the community through
(11:43):
strategic communications and DEIwork.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, I wasn't
expecting the course to be the
intro to business.
I was actually expecting you tosay it was anatomy and
physiology, because that'susually the course where
everyone says no.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Or organic chem it's
like oh no, chemistry, there's
so much math, Nope, can't do ityeah.
So no, and I now.
I get the pleasure of workingwithin a communications firm,
and so I love the variety that afirm provides.
I get to touch so manydifferent organizations, leaders
(12:20):
, products, services, ideas thatreally help shape every
patient's every day, and we'reall patients.
Everyone's a patient at somepoint in your life, from you
know the womb to the grave, asthey say, and I get to be a part
of what that experience is likefor patients all across the
globe Incredible.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And what does that
look like?
Amira, Like just on aday-to-day or week-to-week basis
?
Are you hands-on, Are you outin the field?
What does that really look like?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, every client is
so different, which is why I
love the agency world.
It really keeps me on my toes.
There are some clients whereyou know we're their agency of
record and so we're doing allkinds of communication from what
they look like to the externalworld, to their internal
employee communications andvideos and social media, to what
(13:11):
their products look like andwhat the words are on the
product packaging.
And for others, we're doing alot of work of understanding and
serving.
What do your audience members,your consumers, your potential
patients, your potentialemployees want to hear from you,
want to see from you out therein the world.
So there's a lot of variety inmy day-to-day and sometimes it
(13:35):
is super hands-on writing apress release, pitching and
placing an article for anexecutive at a healthcare
company or building a deck.
In the world of agency andconsulting, you live in decks.
Everything's communicated in aPowerPoint deck.
I'm building decks to presentideas and to present
communications that will reallymove people, and that's what I
(13:58):
tell people that I get to do isI work in behavioral
communications.
I get to help shape the thingsand the words that move people
to action and mobilize entirecommunities, whether that is
what we saw in COVID of washyour hands for 20 seconds or to
the tune of the happy birthdaysong.
Twice.
(14:18):
That would be an example of animpact of the kind of work I get
to do.
You have experienced it andseen it in the real world.
But you may not know thatbehind the scenes, behavioral
communications strategists likeAmira was a part of helping to
make sure those messages got toyou out there in the world and
help to make sure we were allhygienically washing our hands
(14:41):
to care for and protect oneanother.
And that's just one smallexample of how the work I get to
do every day shows up in theworld.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Behavioral
communication.
That's such a thing.
I think within our space, wetalk about communication from
like knowing who's your audience, like who are you talking to,
when are you delivering theright message?
But when you're wanting toreally evoke action or people
taking action, I think thatthere is definitely a deeper
level and I was going to saythis the psychology and science
(15:10):
that's on the back end of that.
It's true.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It's art and science
we draw from every day.
I tell people that's why mynose is in books all the time we
draw from psychology andsociology and anthropology and
all of these different practicesand sciences that influence the
world of communications, andit's such a powerful tool.
And media literacy plays into apart of that and it's something
(15:35):
I talk about a lot as well,because words shape worlds and
that's not just a quip saying,it's a reality.
They shape what we will do atany given moment in time and the
reality that we all get to livetogether.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Wow.
So when you're going to work ona project, like you said, you
go into books like psychologybooks and everything.
So what is like your first stepwhere somebody is like okay, we
need this messaging?
What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
We always start with
a brief.
That's the agency way.
We start with a brief, which isbasically a series of questions
, right, and from the world ofcognitive psychology we borrow a
framing that any communicatorwould know think, feel, do and
say what do you want youraudience members to think so
that they will feel something,that they will do and then say
(16:22):
something?
We really do go through thesteps of getting into the
persona and the mind of theaudiences that you're trying to
reach, and that's what helps usto shape the most right messages
that will hit all of those, thesix R's right, the right person
at the right time, in the rightway, with the right message for
the right reason, and so on andso forth.
(16:44):
It really is starting with abrief, a set of questions, and I
tell people all the time.
One of my favorite things that Iget to do as a communicator is
I get to ask questions all day.
That is a lot of what shapes mywork.
We use inquisition as astrategy, and the same is true
for the work I get to do in DEIadvisory.
Inquisition is a strategy.
(17:05):
Sometimes we're asking the mostright questions to elicit more
information so we can thendecide okay, now how do we move
based on the data andinformation we collected?
What's the best next step here?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, the art of
question asking, which is kind
of lost.
We don't see a lot of it.
As coaches, you know that'swhat we do all the time.
What were some of the thingsthat you did to become such a
great question asker?
Speaker 4 (17:33):
It's been in me since
forever.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
I remember.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I was the child who
you know was often told.
Why are you asking so manyquestions?
You know, sometimes the adultsaround me didn't have the
answers and I think that's wheresome of the frustration came
from.
My questions were so big and Ithink you'll understand this
because you're both Virgos too.
I think it's innate to me as aSeptember Virgo is I want to
(17:58):
know the data, the information,so that I can decide my most
right steps.
I want to be informed.
It's a very Virgo behavior toknow to ask questions, so that I
can be prepared, because Ialways want to show up well
prepared.
I want to see around cornersbefore I need to and I don't
want to be surprised, and soasking questions has been a
(18:21):
strategy from the days of littleAmira to now, here today, the
work that I get to do as acommunicator, and it's just
curiosity.
I think curiosity is what helpsus grow, curiosity is what
opens our minds to new ideas,new people, new places, is to
make sure that you stay curious,and you can start to work that
(18:44):
muscle of curiosity just byasking more questions.
Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Love that.
I love that Pre-med figuringout that you need to step into
the space of communication inthe nonprofit world.
And then is it the lightningbolt that hits you when you
realize niceness is a thing thatshows up in the workspace and
not in a great way at all times.
What is your journey tobecoming the soon to be
(19:11):
published author of.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
The.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
First Place, yes, yes
.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
So many things.
So it really does start backwith little Amira, nine-year-old
little amira.
So I'm going to tell you astory.
I am an 80s baby, but the 90sraised me is how I always say it
to people and I mentioned Igrew up with minister parents
and so they maintaineddiscipline with really sharp
looks and heavy size and araised eyebrow that could really
(19:36):
like stop you in your tracksand the occasional, you know,
rebuke to the backside.
That was a thing back then, andnice wasn't a suggestion in our
world.
It was a non-negotiable demandand for much of my life I really
tried to live up to that.
In fact, I was known.
(19:56):
It was my late mother-in-law,pearl, who started calling me
this.
She would call me precioussweet Amira, as if it were my
full government name, and otherpeople started doing it too.
I was precious sweet Amira andI kind of played into it.
I did.
My husband would joke with me.
I kind of played into it, thatpersona, and I wore it like a
badge of honor.
(20:16):
But I started to realize thatthat kind of existence came with
a price right.
The problem was that nice neverquite fit me.
I was a really good actress.
I still am today, I should havegone into acting.
That's what I should have doneI tell my husband and daughter,
I should have been an actress.
you know, you're still young,you can still do that.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I am still young, I
can still do it.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
But there was this
unrelenting sort of tug of war
between the suffocatingexpectations of the daughter or
daughter-in-law I was supposedto be and the daughter that I
truly was inside, the one whoasked questions, who wanted to
be heard and not just seen.
And for a long time it was atrap for me and I couldn't
(20:58):
really figure out for myself howto free myself from it.
And so when I was nine, youknow my sisters and I.
We grew up with these two bestfriends on the tiny island of
Guam.
They were blonde haired, hazeleyed and our best of friends.
Even today, 30 plus years later, we are still sisters in every
way that matters.
(21:19):
And they were fixtures in ourhousehold and we were in theirs,
and the twins would returnsometimes from vacation every
summer, and we didn't have thegram back then, right In the
early aughts and the nineties.
And so the best way for peopleto know that you had just gone
somewhere fabulous was what wecall vacation hair yes, so it's
(21:40):
the, the braids and the littlebeads on the end.
Right, think jamaica, thecaribbean.
You come back with your braidedhair and the beads and
painfully burned scouts.
Yes, and very soon afterreturning with the twins.
Their cornrows were more likethese fizzy haystacks and they'd
be sitting cross-legged on mymom's bedroom floor begging for
(22:02):
her to fix it.
You know, can you please braidour hair like theirs?
And pointing at my sisters andI and my mom would shake her
head but very kindly do it.
So she'd sit there and parttheir very fine thin blonde hair
into sections and startbraiding.
And there was one year wherethey were sort of squirming and
wincing and squealing like ouch,it's too tight.
(22:23):
Why does it hurt so much like?
Does your hair hurt like this?
Is my hair falling out?
What's happening?
And so little nine-year-oldAmira is standing there in the
doorway, my brow furrowed and myarms crossed and I'm just like
what is going on here?
And for whatever reason, theSeptember Virgo in me snapped
and I just said well, it'sbecause your hair isn't made for
(22:47):
braids.
And I felt like the room fellsilent.
My mom gave me quite a sternstare.
My little sister was in thecorner stifling a giggle because
she knew I was about to get it.
I was in so much trouble andone of the twins I recall her
whipping her head around so fast.
(23:07):
The beads went flyingeverywhere and her eyes were
wide, her mouth open, and justthis expression of like shock
and hurt and confusion.
And my mom said Amira, that'snot nice.
And the twins and my sistersjust stared at me.
And later my mom came and talkedto me and said you know, you
(23:28):
can't just say things like that,even if they're true.
And there it was for me thePrice of Nice, a lesson that had
been ingrained in me until Iunpacked it, which is what
you'll discover in this bookthat being nice is more
important than being real.
That no matter how right youare or how true the thing is, if
(23:51):
it makes someone uncomfortable,you are the problem.
Now, my mom didn't intend forthat to be the lesson, but
that's what little Amira tookand that's what I've been
unpacking for the entirety of myalmost 40 years on this earth,
and that's why I wrote a wholebook about it, and looking back
now, I realize I could havehandled the situation
(24:12):
differently.
I was still right, though.
To be clear, I was not wrong.
You know, that's the Virgo inme as well.
I was right.
You just want everybody to knowthat, just just for the record
that sword is the one I was notwrong.
I was correct and what I saidwas true.
Your hair will fall out becauseit's not made for those type,
(24:35):
right?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
thank you for joining
us today on the reignite
resilience podcast.
We hope you had some ahamoments and learned a few new
real life ideas.
To fuel the flames of passion,please subscribe on your
favorite streaming platform,like or download your favorite
episodes and, of course, sharewith your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(24:59):
Resilience.