May 8, 2025 • 25 mins
"The greatest gift you can give anyone is your full attention."
What happens when life's darkest moments become the catalyst for discovering your deepest purpose? In this profoundly moving conversation, a school counselor shares how a series of unexpected events—from being locked in a Japanese psychiatric facility with a friend in crisis to the devastating loss of his young son—shaped his professional journey and personal resilience.
Through tears and triumph, we explore how human connection can transcend even the most challenging circumstances. When traditional communication failed with his delirious friend in Japan, our guest discovered that reciting old-school rap lyrics created a breakthrough connection that lasted for days. This extraordinary experience revealed his life's calling: to help people navigate through confusion toward clarity.
Years later, after establishing his career and family in the United States, unimaginable tragedy struck when his eight-year-old son Noah died in a hiking accident. Rather than allowing grief to consume him, he channeled his pain into purpose, expanding his impact by leading a district-wide initiative that nearly doubled the number of school counselors and implemented innovative mental health programs reaching thousands of students.
Throughout these experiences, one powerful lesson emerges: In our distracted world, this simple yet profound insight offers a pathway to meaningful connection that could potentially save lives.
About Aaron Ragon
Aaron Ragon is a keynote speaker, education leader and licensed therapist with 20 years of experience in mental health and student support. He serves as a Partner of Student Support in Cherry Creek School District and an Adjunct Professor at the University of Denver. Drawing from global experiences in Alaska, Antarctica, and Nepal, he brings a unique perspective filled with warmth, humor and candor to all of his endeavors
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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.
Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
Resilience where we willventure into the heart of the
human spirit.
(00:27):
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,natalie.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Davis and Pamela Cass .
We were on our way to Ghana, atthe headwaters of the Amazon.
That's where we were going tobe placed at the Peace Corps.
And then we found out we weremedically disqualified because
Lisa is allergic to peanuts.
Peanuts are a big part of thelocal diet.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Our backup was Japan.
In retrospect, that was bigtime serendipity.
So this program places you in aJapanese public school and you
assist a Japanese Englishteacher with teaching English
and you're an ambassador for theUnited States.
It was this really richexperience, great program.
(01:20):
And can I tell another storyPlease?
Yes, this is the origin story.
About a year in I got a callthat my friend Alex was found
stumbling and muttering outsideof his apartment in a stairwell
incoherently and that he hadbeen moved to kind of this
(01:41):
hospital.
And so I ended up going to thehospital.
The Japanese doctors removedhis appendix because at one
point in his incoherence he hadcomplained of lower abdominal
pain.
Well, he did not have anappendicitis, there was not an
issue there.
By the time that I got to thehospital he was coming out from
being under anesthesia,recognizing that a part of his
(02:02):
body had been taken from him,and at that time he was in like
a full psychotic episode, reallyparanoid, really concerned,
incredible distress.
The JET program they recruitfrom English speaking countries,
so you have people from England, australia, new Zealand and we
were standing vigil because Alexdidn't speak much Japanese and
(02:25):
he just needed somebody there.
Well, there was a decision madeto move him to the nearest
mental facility kind of apsychiatric facility which
happened to be in the town whereI lived.
We knew that Alex could not gointo that facility alone and so
I volunteered to go with him.
Calling it a psychiatricfacility is putting it really
(02:45):
nicely.
It was really actually like aninsane asylum from the 1920s in
America.
Okay, so they were doingelectroconvulsive shock therapy,
so there were a bunch of guysthat had the sides of their head
shaved or handing out halidollike it was candy, which is like
this old school tranquilizerthat makes you drool.
When I look back on this, I'mamazed that they let me go in,
(03:11):
but I also don't think that theJapanese folks wanted him
without someone to calm him down.
So Alex and I get put in thisroom, they lock us in this room
and he was just hallucinatingand he would be spitting out
word salad, and so it would.
It looked a little like thisBVD air gauge descending bubbles
, fish shark, danger shark, andso he would be hallucinating
(03:36):
that he's like experiencing thisattack, and so I did everything
that I could to get through tohim, but he could not really
respond to me when I talked tohim and when I touched him and
upset him.
And then I remembered, three,four hours into being locked in
this room, that Alex and I havethis really dorky thing in
common we both love old schoolrap.
(03:58):
So I looked at him and I saidbasketball is my favorite sport.
And he looked back at me and hesaid I like the way they
dribble up and down the court.
And I said, just like I'm theking on the microphone.
And then he says so is Dr J andMoses Malone.
And so we go back and forthwith first blows basketball.
(04:18):
It was miraculous because he wascogent and he could talk to me.
We were able to have aconversation and then, I don't
know, 10, 15 minutes later, hestarts drifting away into
delusion land.
And so then I open up the RunDMC cannon and we busted through
Run DMC.
And so, you guys, we wrappedand we talked for three straight
(04:39):
days, and so his parents showedup and I knew they were coming,
but I didn't have a cell phone,I had no way of knowing when,
and it turned out that his dadwas one of the foremost
psychiatrists in Canada and hehad like a form of meningitis
that had caused this, and so hisdad got him treatment right
(05:00):
away.
He returned to Canada.
But I left that experiencerealizing that this is what I
want to do with my life is thatI want to have conversations
with people that are in dark,confused places and help them
see through the fog and thesmoke and find their way to
clarity.
And I knew that I wanted towork in a school.
I knew that schedule would begood for a family, which is
(05:22):
something I wanted in the future, and so it was through that
process of elimination and thatreally kind of less than great
circumstance that I realizedwhat I wanted to do with my life
.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Absolutely, and that experience for him could have
looked so different.
Right, the reality ismeningitis.
He left without his appendixand almost admitted to an insane
asylum, and the solution wasactually over here, and they
were treating him for everythingelse except what the actual
problem was.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, and the story ends well for Alex.
He returned to Canada, went toteacher's college, he married
this amazing woman.
He's lived a very fulfillinglife.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Could have been very different.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
He attended my wedding the following year.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Thank you for sharing kind of that starting point for
recognizing and realizing yourpurpose, because the amount of
courage right.
You're in a different country.
Not only are you dealing withthe language barrier between
patient and the care providers,being the interpreter, but also
stepping into a space that youwere not familiar with.
You just knew that there wassomething that would connect the
(06:27):
two of you, tap into that andstay there, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, and it's also like necessity or desperation is
the mother of invention.
I didn't know it would work andto this day I still don't know
why.
I don't know why old schoolrhymes I was able to get through
to Alex that way.
But I think so many times inlife it is exactly moments of
desperation that represent thegreatest opportunity for
(06:52):
realization, which is why I loveyour podcast so much.
There's this really profoundtruth in that, I think.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Thank you for that and I have to agree, the stories
along the way are one part ofit, but the triumph and the
victory and the lessons learnedon the other side are the pieces
that always keep me in awe,because we get to hear the
stories on the other side.
With that 2020 hindsight.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, how long did you stay in Japan?
Did you get married in Japan?
Because you got married theyear later.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We got married back in the?
U.
We were in Japan from 2000 to2002, returned to Colorado, got
married and then enrolled ingrad school, and so I started my
career 2006, 2007.
And then we returned to Japanwith a five-month-old and a
three-year-old.
We worked at internationalschools there.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Okay, counseling, or kind of the same thing that you
were doing when you were therebefore.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was a college counselor and then my wife is
also a high school counselor,and so I worked at an all-boys
school.
She worked at an all-girlsschool.
We lived in central Tokyo andit was like a great adventure.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
You have had a lot of great adventures.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, I appreciate that, pamela.
Right now I feel like sometimesjust getting out of Costco is
an adventure.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
That just stands in a whole category by itself.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
You can't compare anything else to that you find
yourself at Costco on a Sundayand it's like this is nuts.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Exactly, I made a Costco run last Sunday because
my workout got canceled becausethe instructor was sick.
So I'm like, well, I might aswell go to Costco, it'll be a
workout, and it was.
It was terrifying, it'sterrifying.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
The last time I found myself in that space on a
Sunday, I remember stopping inthe store, middle of the store
stop the basket and I'm bymyself and I said why would I
have done this to myself?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Why would you do this ?
I said every time I get thereand I'm parking in the next
county.
I'm like why would I do this?
They need shuttles.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It's like childbirth.
You forget how terrible it is.
You do and you do it again.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And I've tried every rhythm like go earlier, go
middle of the day, doesn'tmatter.
Go against traffic, doesn'tmatter, doesn't matter.
Okay, so you're both gradschool.
You go to Japan again with twolittles, come back to the States
yes, kind of fast forward.
So what is your journey now?
Because now you're speaking,you're sharing stories, so I'd
(09:18):
love to hear a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We returned to the States and returned to working
in comprehensive high schools.
At that time Ben was two, noahwas five and so returned to
working in schools.
I love being a school counselor.
A few years later, we are up inHanging Lake, outside of
Glenwood Springs.
We go on a family hike.
(09:41):
It's a place we've been manytimes before.
It's a place I grew up hikingto with my family, and my son,
noah, who was eight at the time,ran ahead on the trail and a
rock dislodged from a rock facehit him on the head and killed
him instantly like a profoundtragedy for us.
(10:02):
But the thing about that isthat it caused us to really
reassess everything in our lives.
When you're living in a spacethat is kind of so precarious
and I mean this kind ofemotionally, psychologically
you're really careful abouteverything that you do, and
(10:23):
there were certain TV shows Icouldn't watch.
We had to be really careful.
The statistics for couples wholose a child staying married are
not good, but my wife is aschool counselor and a licensed
therapist, and so am I, and sowe went and we got help, and we
got a lot of help, and it wasthis healing journey that was
(10:44):
really intensive and intentional, and what came out of that for
me personally was a recognitionthat I needed to not sweat the
small stuff.
And so, from a personal lens,one of the really interesting
things that happened and I don'tthink most people would expect
(11:05):
this, or maybe even experienceit is that I had literally
almost no anxiety for about thefirst year after Noah died,
because I believed that theworst thing that could happen.
It happened, yeah, and Ithought the chances of that
repeating were not likely.
Professionally, I decided that Iwanted to have a bigger
systemic impact in the work thatI did, so serendipitously, this
(11:25):
job opened up leading theschool counselors in Douglas
County.
I got that job.
It was really my first go atleadership.
About a month in, they told methat we're going to have a mill
levy override.
This is like where you go tothe voters and the schools
basically say, hey, if you giveus this money, this is what
we're going to do with it.
(11:46):
And what they decided they weregoing to do with it was hire 85
new counselors, almost doublethe size of the counseling core
in Douglas County, putelementary counselors in all the
buildings and then lower orincrease the number of
counselors in the middle and thehigh schools.
And so they basically said tome look, you will be solely
responsible for recruiting,screening and creating processes
(12:10):
so we can hire in mass allthese people.
You know, I have no HRbackground and I haven't done
any stuff before, but I feltlike one of the decisions that
I'd made was to devote my workto Noah's memory, and so I felt
incredibly motivated andinspired and I felt like Noah
was with me on this journey, andso one of the things I did is I
(12:30):
went to our communicationsdepartment there's like a really
skilled videographer.
I put together a recruitmentvideo.
That recruitment video wentviral.
There were not enough peoplegraduating that year from grad
school to staff all thosepositions, and I was told
there's no way that you're goingto be able to do this.
But not only did we do it, wegot some incredible people and
(12:51):
then I got the opportunity totrain them and I got the
opportunity to get to know themand orient them, and it resulted
in a really great four-year runin that position where we
implemented anxiety work thatdoesn't exist anywhere else in
the country, created someprograms for counseling,
(13:11):
professional development.
That was really amazing.
It really felt amazing.
Du approached me and they'relike hey, we've heard of you,
will you teach for us?
It's a strange thing to havepeople come to you and say we
want you to do this thing for us.
So it was kind of thisilluminating experience and I
think when you go through atragedy like that, you have to
(13:33):
make really, really cleardecisions about who you're going
to be.
And I think, when I look backon it, I think my son Ben saved
my life because I knew that Ihad to be whole for him, that I
owed him a childhood, that Iowed him opportunities, and so
that's a little bit about thatexperience when we got back from
(13:55):
Japan.
That was quite an experience,yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Well and, aaron, I'm not surprised that people reach
out to you or recognize the workthat you're doing, because
you've done a couple of things,like you realized, unfortunately
, out of tragedy, what your whyand your true north was going to
be moving forward, and you weredoing work that was really in
alignment with your purpose andwhat you truly wanted to do.
Yes, you could have worked withthe children one-on-one, but
(14:21):
then you had the ability to workwith a hundred plus counselors
and having this expansive reachacross the entire school
district and creating innovativetools and modalities for all of
those counselors to utilizewith kids, which is huge.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, it really felt.
You know, sometimes in lifeit's better to be lucky than
smart.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I feel like I found myself at this intersection of
opportunity and passion, and sothat was a really notable four
years.
I will say this, though I bitoff a lot, I ran hard and it was
just a lot of time.
The other thing that happenedin the aftermath of Noah's death
(15:04):
was my wife and I had aconversation about having
another child and we wanted Bento have a brother because he
loved being a brother and wejust didn't feel like our family
was complete, and we had a lotof conversations about it.
And then we entered into thislong IVF journey and we were
really ready to give up becausethere were so many false starts.
And then COVID hit and thenthere were delays.
(15:26):
We hit this point where my wifeLisa says like, look, I'm happy
to give up, I'm ready to giveup the ghost.
And when we started thisjourney I was kind of the
reluctant one, but at this pointI was really clear that by God,
we're not going to just give up.
We've invested lots in this andI'm not just talking money.
Let's give it a go.
(15:47):
So Lisa got pregnant and thepregnancy went beautifully and
then at 20 weeks they bring youin to do an ultrasound and when
you're what they call geriatric,like we are, they hook you up
to an ultrasound machine onsteroids and the doctor does his
thing.
And then he says to us there'sa problem.
(16:07):
There's like a two centimeterbreak in the uterus.
But he basically said, likelook, there's nothing that we
can do about it.
It could result in an uterus.
But he basically said, likelook, there's nothing that we
can do about it.
It could result in an earlydelivery.
Everything might be fine, butprobably not.
Or it could be fatal.
Basically, like there's nothingwe can do about it.
So, don't worry about it, hesaid basically.
And so we left this experienceand this appointment and I felt
(16:31):
like my world had been flippedupside down and I knew this was
high risk and I had told myselfthat I was going to practice
radical acceptance.
But in practice that's reallyhard to do.
Yes, it's really hard to do.
And in the backdrop,professionally, this thing had
happened where there had been anew school board elected.
(16:53):
They fired the superintendentand I thought I was low enough
on the food chain that it wasn'tgoing to affect me, but then it
became very clear to me that Iwould no longer be able to serve
Noah's memory with fidelity ifI stayed.
So I have this thing going onwith this baby.
Things are falling apart in mycareer and I knew that I might
(17:13):
need to make a change anyway,because it's not really viable
to work 60 hours a week when youhave a newborn.
I apply for this job that Iheard about in a neighboring
school district and they call mefor an interview, but the
interview happens to be at theexact same moment as our
follow-up appointment with theOB.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Right.
So Lisa and I, we do thepragmatic thing and I go to the
interview and we agree that Iwill call her the second it's
over.
So I go to this interview, callher.
When I get out I say you knowwell what happened.
And she says well, it was weird.
The ultrasound tech came in,took a bunch of pictures.
She said I believe the doctorwas watching remotely.
(17:53):
He rushed in after theultrasound tech, grabbed the
wand, put the goo on my bellyand he starts like looking
around and he seems dysregulated, he seems off, he hasn't
acknowledged me, he is simplydoing with the wand.
And this continues for a coupleof minutes and Lisa's like what
(18:15):
the hell?
And she says, excuse me, doctor, is everything okay?
And he kind of comes out of astupor and he looks at her and
he says do you remember thatproblem from a month ago?
And Lisa's like yeah, I'llnever forget it.
And he says well, it's gone, ithas healed itself, the tissue
has regenerated, there is nolonger a break.
And he said there is nothing inthe medical literature to
(18:36):
indicate that this is possible.
I've never even heard of thishappening.
But he said this is the bestpossible thing that could happen
If it weren't for your age, Iwould consider you not even at
risk.
And so our son, liam, was bornabout two and a half years ago.
Beautiful baby boy Ben's, thisincredible big brother.
He is so good with him and Igot that job the job that I have
(19:02):
now and it allowed me to workdirectly with kids again.
There was a significant raise.
I get to work with vulnerablepopulations, which is my passion
.
It was kind of like all ourproblems were solved at 10 am on
a Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Love that.
Oh my gosh, that's quite thejourney.
Yeah, and so much more.
This is not the end.
Now it's what else is on thehorizon.
You're just getting started.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Not by a long shot?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Not at all.
Yes, exactly.
Well, erin, you have anopportunity to work with young
people and, just from what I'vewitnessed and experienced, young
people go through challengesand adversities parallel with
adults and mature adults.
For our listeners, if they'refinding themselves in a place
where they're overcoming anobstacle or a hurdle or a
(19:50):
challenge in life, what adviceor tips would you give our
listeners just to help them atleast start to navigate through
or process what they're goingthrough?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think for anybody that has a relationship with a
young person, the first piece ofadvice I would have would be to
turn off all the electronicsand all the screens and put them
away and take a moment, evenfive moments, and just really
listen to them and be fullypresent for them, because my
(20:20):
experience has been that, inthis time of constant partial
attention, the greatest gift youcan give anyone is full
attention.
The greatest gift you can giveanyone is your full attention.
I know that sounds really basic, but it models something for
young people that theydesperately need and it provides
something that will nourishtheir soul, and so I think that
(20:40):
advice would hold true,regardless of if we're talking
about a difficulty or not.
If nothing else, it will buildthe foundation for future
conversation that couldpotentially save their life.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I love that.
It just creates that space forconnection, true connection.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, and again.
I know that's so basic.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
But I think it's something that would benefit
everybody at any age.
With any other human.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yes, I love that.
That's fabulous.
Anything else that you'd liketo share with our listeners that
we didn't get a chance to talkabout today?
Aaron?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I can't believe how much we talked about.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I know I think we unpacked so much and I'm so
grateful.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Multiple countries, multiple continents.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I just so appreciate being invited here.
It's a real honor and I justwant to say thank you and to
your listeners out there.
Hang in there.
We are living in a veryuncertain time, but hang in
there because it's going to beokay.
One way or another, the systemwants to return to equilibrium.
(21:44):
That is a fundamental tenet offamily counseling theory.
I believe it's true and I thinkthat we're going to get back to
equilibrium.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And that's the system collectively and all of the
components of the system.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
The system does not like to be out of balance.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, love that.
It has been an absolutepleasure to have you on the show
, erin.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
So grateful.
The best way to end a week.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yes, Thank you, it's been a lot of fun.
Natalie, I hope we get to meetsome time in person, and Pamela,
I look forward to seeing you inlike a week or two, whenever
that is.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I would love that.
Well, we at least have arunning start.
We're all in the same state nowno-transcript to share your
(22:54):
message with a different vehicle.
And thank you for the work thatyou're doing with young people.
And to Lisa, ben and Liam.
I'm grateful for them as well,because, oh my gosh, again, it's
just the dynamic that, I think,brings forth just all of the
value that you have providedwith us today.
So thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you For our listeners
.
If you all are interested inknowing what's going on in the
(23:15):
world of reignite resilience,head on over to
reigniteresiliencecom, where youcan check us out, or on
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And if you have not alreadydone so I know I'm a broken
record in saying it Make sureyou subscribe to our weekly
think letter.
It is released every Saturday,where you can hear more about
our episodes, our guests and ourthoughts about our episodes, as
(23:36):
we have our guests on.
So until next time, we'll seeyou all soon.
Have a good one.
Bye, everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some ahamoments and learned a few new
real life ideas.
To fuel the flames of passion,please subscribe on your
favorite streaming platform,like or download your favorite
episodes and, of course, sharewith your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(24:04):
Resilience.
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
Resilience where we willventure into the heart of the
human spirit.
(00:27):
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,natalie.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Davis and Pamela Cass .
We were on our way to Ghana, atthe headwaters of the Amazon.
That's where we were going tobe placed at the Peace Corps.
And then we found out we weremedically disqualified because
Lisa is allergic to peanuts.
Peanuts are a big part of thelocal diet.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Our backup was Japan.
In retrospect, that was bigtime serendipity.
So this program places you in aJapanese public school and you
assist a Japanese Englishteacher with teaching English
and you're an ambassador for theUnited States.
It was this really richexperience, great program.
(01:20):
And can I tell another storyPlease?
Yes, this is the origin story.
About a year in I got a callthat my friend Alex was found
stumbling and muttering outsideof his apartment in a stairwell
incoherently and that he hadbeen moved to kind of this
(01:41):
hospital.
And so I ended up going to thehospital.
The Japanese doctors removedhis appendix because at one
point in his incoherence he hadcomplained of lower abdominal
pain.
Well, he did not have anappendicitis, there was not an
issue there.
By the time that I got to thehospital he was coming out from
being under anesthesia,recognizing that a part of his
(02:02):
body had been taken from him,and at that time he was in like
a full psychotic episode, reallyparanoid, really concerned,
incredible distress.
The JET program they recruitfrom English speaking countries,
so you have people from England, australia, new Zealand and we
were standing vigil because Alexdidn't speak much Japanese and
(02:25):
he just needed somebody there.
Well, there was a decision madeto move him to the nearest
mental facility kind of apsychiatric facility which
happened to be in the town whereI lived.
We knew that Alex could not gointo that facility alone and so
I volunteered to go with him.
Calling it a psychiatricfacility is putting it really
(02:45):
nicely.
It was really actually like aninsane asylum from the 1920s in
America.
Okay, so they were doingelectroconvulsive shock therapy,
so there were a bunch of guysthat had the sides of their head
shaved or handing out halidollike it was candy, which is like
this old school tranquilizerthat makes you drool.
When I look back on this, I'mamazed that they let me go in,
(03:11):
but I also don't think that theJapanese folks wanted him
without someone to calm him down.
So Alex and I get put in thisroom, they lock us in this room
and he was just hallucinatingand he would be spitting out
word salad, and so it would.
It looked a little like thisBVD air gauge descending bubbles
, fish shark, danger shark, andso he would be hallucinating
(03:36):
that he's like experiencing thisattack, and so I did everything
that I could to get through tohim, but he could not really
respond to me when I talked tohim and when I touched him and
upset him.
And then I remembered, three,four hours into being locked in
this room, that Alex and I havethis really dorky thing in
common we both love old schoolrap.
(03:58):
So I looked at him and I saidbasketball is my favorite sport.
And he looked back at me and hesaid I like the way they
dribble up and down the court.
And I said, just like I'm theking on the microphone.
And then he says so is Dr J andMoses Malone.
And so we go back and forthwith first blows basketball.
(04:18):
It was miraculous because he wascogent and he could talk to me.
We were able to have aconversation and then, I don't
know, 10, 15 minutes later, hestarts drifting away into
delusion land.
And so then I open up the RunDMC cannon and we busted through
Run DMC.
And so, you guys, we wrappedand we talked for three straight
(04:39):
days, and so his parents showedup and I knew they were coming,
but I didn't have a cell phone,I had no way of knowing when,
and it turned out that his dadwas one of the foremost
psychiatrists in Canada and hehad like a form of meningitis
that had caused this, and so hisdad got him treatment right
(05:00):
away.
He returned to Canada.
But I left that experiencerealizing that this is what I
want to do with my life is thatI want to have conversations
with people that are in dark,confused places and help them
see through the fog and thesmoke and find their way to
clarity.
And I knew that I wanted towork in a school.
I knew that schedule would begood for a family, which is
(05:22):
something I wanted in the future, and so it was through that
process of elimination and thatreally kind of less than great
circumstance that I realizedwhat I wanted to do with my life
.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Absolutely, and that experience for him could have
looked so different.
Right, the reality ismeningitis.
He left without his appendixand almost admitted to an insane
asylum, and the solution wasactually over here, and they
were treating him for everythingelse except what the actual
problem was.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, and the story ends well for Alex.
He returned to Canada, went toteacher's college, he married
this amazing woman.
He's lived a very fulfillinglife.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Could have been very different.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
He attended my wedding the following year.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Thank you for sharing kind of that starting point for
recognizing and realizing yourpurpose, because the amount of
courage right.
You're in a different country.
Not only are you dealing withthe language barrier between
patient and the care providers,being the interpreter, but also
stepping into a space that youwere not familiar with.
You just knew that there wassomething that would connect the
(06:27):
two of you, tap into that andstay there, and that's it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, and it's also like necessity or desperation is
the mother of invention.
I didn't know it would work andto this day I still don't know
why.
I don't know why old schoolrhymes I was able to get through
to Alex that way.
But I think so many times inlife it is exactly moments of
desperation that represent thegreatest opportunity for
(06:52):
realization, which is why I loveyour podcast so much.
There's this really profoundtruth in that, I think.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Thank you for that and I have to agree, the stories
along the way are one part ofit, but the triumph and the
victory and the lessons learnedon the other side are the pieces
that always keep me in awe,because we get to hear the
stories on the other side.
With that 2020 hindsight.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, how long did you stay in Japan?
Did you get married in Japan?
Because you got married theyear later.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We got married back in the?
U.
We were in Japan from 2000 to2002, returned to Colorado, got
married and then enrolled ingrad school, and so I started my
career 2006, 2007.
And then we returned to Japanwith a five-month-old and a
three-year-old.
We worked at internationalschools there.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Okay, counseling, or kind of the same thing that you
were doing when you were therebefore.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was a college counselor and then my wife is
also a high school counselor,and so I worked at an all-boys
school.
She worked at an all-girlsschool.
We lived in central Tokyo andit was like a great adventure.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
You have had a lot of great adventures.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, I appreciate that, pamela.
Right now I feel like sometimesjust getting out of Costco is
an adventure.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
That just stands in a whole category by itself.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
You can't compare anything else to that you find
yourself at Costco on a Sundayand it's like this is nuts.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Exactly, I made a Costco run last Sunday because
my workout got canceled becausethe instructor was sick.
So I'm like, well, I might aswell go to Costco, it'll be a
workout, and it was.
It was terrifying, it'sterrifying.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
The last time I found myself in that space on a
Sunday, I remember stopping inthe store, middle of the store
stop the basket and I'm bymyself and I said why would I
have done this to myself?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Why would you do this ?
I said every time I get thereand I'm parking in the next
county.
I'm like why would I do this?
They need shuttles.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It's like childbirth.
You forget how terrible it is.
You do and you do it again.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And I've tried every rhythm like go earlier, go
middle of the day, doesn'tmatter.
Go against traffic, doesn'tmatter, doesn't matter.
Okay, so you're both gradschool.
You go to Japan again with twolittles, come back to the States
yes, kind of fast forward.
So what is your journey now?
Because now you're speaking,you're sharing stories, so I'd
(09:18):
love to hear a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We returned to the States and returned to working
in comprehensive high schools.
At that time Ben was two, noahwas five and so returned to
working in schools.
I love being a school counselor.
A few years later, we are up inHanging Lake, outside of
Glenwood Springs.
We go on a family hike.
(09:41):
It's a place we've been manytimes before.
It's a place I grew up hikingto with my family, and my son,
noah, who was eight at the time,ran ahead on the trail and a
rock dislodged from a rock facehit him on the head and killed
him instantly like a profoundtragedy for us.
(10:02):
But the thing about that isthat it caused us to really
reassess everything in our lives.
When you're living in a spacethat is kind of so precarious
and I mean this kind ofemotionally, psychologically
you're really careful abouteverything that you do, and
(10:23):
there were certain TV shows Icouldn't watch.
We had to be really careful.
The statistics for couples wholose a child staying married are
not good, but my wife is aschool counselor and a licensed
therapist, and so am I, and sowe went and we got help, and we
got a lot of help, and it wasthis healing journey that was
(10:44):
really intensive and intentional, and what came out of that for
me personally was a recognitionthat I needed to not sweat the
small stuff.
And so, from a personal lens,one of the really interesting
things that happened and I don'tthink most people would expect
(11:05):
this, or maybe even experienceit is that I had literally
almost no anxiety for about thefirst year after Noah died,
because I believed that theworst thing that could happen.
It happened, yeah, and Ithought the chances of that
repeating were not likely.
Professionally, I decided that Iwanted to have a bigger
systemic impact in the work thatI did, so serendipitously, this
(11:25):
job opened up leading theschool counselors in Douglas
County.
I got that job.
It was really my first go atleadership.
About a month in, they told methat we're going to have a mill
levy override.
This is like where you go tothe voters and the schools
basically say, hey, if you giveus this money, this is what
we're going to do with it.
(11:46):
And what they decided they weregoing to do with it was hire 85
new counselors, almost doublethe size of the counseling core
in Douglas County, putelementary counselors in all the
buildings and then lower orincrease the number of
counselors in the middle and thehigh schools.
And so they basically said tome look, you will be solely
responsible for recruiting,screening and creating processes
(12:10):
so we can hire in mass allthese people.
You know, I have no HRbackground and I haven't done
any stuff before, but I feltlike one of the decisions that
I'd made was to devote my workto Noah's memory, and so I felt
incredibly motivated andinspired and I felt like Noah
was with me on this journey, andso one of the things I did is I
(12:30):
went to our communicationsdepartment there's like a really
skilled videographer.
I put together a recruitmentvideo.
That recruitment video wentviral.
There were not enough peoplegraduating that year from grad
school to staff all thosepositions, and I was told
there's no way that you're goingto be able to do this.
But not only did we do it, wegot some incredible people and
(12:51):
then I got the opportunity totrain them and I got the
opportunity to get to know themand orient them, and it resulted
in a really great four-year runin that position where we
implemented anxiety work thatdoesn't exist anywhere else in
the country, created someprograms for counseling,
(13:11):
professional development.
That was really amazing.
It really felt amazing.
Du approached me and they'relike hey, we've heard of you,
will you teach for us?
It's a strange thing to havepeople come to you and say we
want you to do this thing for us.
So it was kind of thisilluminating experience and I
think when you go through atragedy like that, you have to
(13:33):
make really, really cleardecisions about who you're going
to be.
And I think, when I look backon it, I think my son Ben saved
my life because I knew that Ihad to be whole for him, that I
owed him a childhood, that Iowed him opportunities, and so
that's a little bit about thatexperience when we got back from
(13:55):
Japan.
That was quite an experience,yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
Well and, aaron, I'm not surprised that people reach
out to you or recognize the workthat you're doing, because
you've done a couple of things,like you realized, unfortunately
, out of tragedy, what your whyand your true north was going to
be moving forward, and you weredoing work that was really in
alignment with your purpose andwhat you truly wanted to do.
Yes, you could have worked withthe children one-on-one, but
(14:21):
then you had the ability to workwith a hundred plus counselors
and having this expansive reachacross the entire school
district and creating innovativetools and modalities for all of
those counselors to utilizewith kids, which is huge.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, it really felt.
You know, sometimes in lifeit's better to be lucky than
smart.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I feel like I found myself at this intersection of
opportunity and passion, and sothat was a really notable four
years.
I will say this, though I bitoff a lot, I ran hard and it was
just a lot of time.
The other thing that happenedin the aftermath of Noah's death
(15:04):
was my wife and I had aconversation about having
another child and we wanted Bento have a brother because he
loved being a brother and wejust didn't feel like our family
was complete, and we had a lotof conversations about it.
And then we entered into thislong IVF journey and we were
really ready to give up becausethere were so many false starts.
And then COVID hit and thenthere were delays.
(15:26):
We hit this point where my wifeLisa says like, look, I'm happy
to give up, I'm ready to giveup the ghost.
And when we started thisjourney I was kind of the
reluctant one, but at this pointI was really clear that by God,
we're not going to just give up.
We've invested lots in this andI'm not just talking money.
Let's give it a go.
(15:47):
So Lisa got pregnant and thepregnancy went beautifully and
then at 20 weeks they bring youin to do an ultrasound and when
you're what they call geriatric,like we are, they hook you up
to an ultrasound machine onsteroids and the doctor does his
thing.
And then he says to us there'sa problem.
(16:07):
There's like a two centimeterbreak in the uterus.
But he basically said, likelook, there's nothing that we
can do about it.
It could result in an uterus.
But he basically said, likelook, there's nothing that we
can do about it.
It could result in an earlydelivery.
Everything might be fine, butprobably not.
Or it could be fatal.
Basically, like there's nothingwe can do about it.
So, don't worry about it, hesaid basically.
And so we left this experienceand this appointment and I felt
(16:31):
like my world had been flippedupside down and I knew this was
high risk and I had told myselfthat I was going to practice
radical acceptance.
But in practice that's reallyhard to do.
Yes, it's really hard to do.
And in the backdrop,professionally, this thing had
happened where there had been anew school board elected.
(16:53):
They fired the superintendentand I thought I was low enough
on the food chain that it wasn'tgoing to affect me, but then it
became very clear to me that Iwould no longer be able to serve
Noah's memory with fidelity ifI stayed.
So I have this thing going onwith this baby.
Things are falling apart in mycareer and I knew that I might
(17:13):
need to make a change anyway,because it's not really viable
to work 60 hours a week when youhave a newborn.
I apply for this job that Iheard about in a neighboring
school district and they call mefor an interview, but the
interview happens to be at theexact same moment as our
follow-up appointment with theOB.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Right.
So Lisa and I, we do thepragmatic thing and I go to the
interview and we agree that Iwill call her the second it's
over.
So I go to this interview, callher.
When I get out I say you knowwell what happened.
And she says well, it was weird.
The ultrasound tech came in,took a bunch of pictures.
She said I believe the doctorwas watching remotely.
(17:53):
He rushed in after theultrasound tech, grabbed the
wand, put the goo on my bellyand he starts like looking
around and he seems dysregulated, he seems off, he hasn't
acknowledged me, he is simplydoing with the wand.
And this continues for a coupleof minutes and Lisa's like what
(18:15):
the hell?
And she says, excuse me, doctor, is everything okay?
And he kind of comes out of astupor and he looks at her and
he says do you remember thatproblem from a month ago?
And Lisa's like yeah, I'llnever forget it.
And he says well, it's gone, ithas healed itself, the tissue
has regenerated, there is nolonger a break.
And he said there is nothing inthe medical literature to
(18:36):
indicate that this is possible.
I've never even heard of thishappening.
But he said this is the bestpossible thing that could happen
If it weren't for your age, Iwould consider you not even at
risk.
And so our son, liam, was bornabout two and a half years ago.
Beautiful baby boy Ben's, thisincredible big brother.
He is so good with him and Igot that job the job that I have
(19:02):
now and it allowed me to workdirectly with kids again.
There was a significant raise.
I get to work with vulnerablepopulations, which is my passion
.
It was kind of like all ourproblems were solved at 10 am on
a Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Love that.
Oh my gosh, that's quite thejourney.
Yeah, and so much more.
This is not the end.
Now it's what else is on thehorizon.
You're just getting started.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Not by a long shot?
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Not at all.
Yes, exactly.
Well, erin, you have anopportunity to work with young
people and, just from what I'vewitnessed and experienced, young
people go through challengesand adversities parallel with
adults and mature adults.
For our listeners, if they'refinding themselves in a place
where they're overcoming anobstacle or a hurdle or a
(19:50):
challenge in life, what adviceor tips would you give our
listeners just to help them atleast start to navigate through
or process what they're goingthrough?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think for anybody that has a relationship with a
young person, the first piece ofadvice I would have would be to
turn off all the electronicsand all the screens and put them
away and take a moment, evenfive moments, and just really
listen to them and be fullypresent for them, because my
(20:20):
experience has been that, inthis time of constant partial
attention, the greatest gift youcan give anyone is full
attention.
The greatest gift you can giveanyone is your full attention.
I know that sounds really basic, but it models something for
young people that theydesperately need and it provides
something that will nourishtheir soul, and so I think that
(20:40):
advice would hold true,regardless of if we're talking
about a difficulty or not.
If nothing else, it will buildthe foundation for future
conversation that couldpotentially save their life.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I love that.
It just creates that space forconnection, true connection.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, and again.
I know that's so basic.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
But I think it's something that would benefit
everybody at any age.
With any other human.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yes, I love that.
That's fabulous.
Anything else that you'd liketo share with our listeners that
we didn't get a chance to talkabout today?
Aaron?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I can't believe how much we talked about.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I know I think we unpacked so much and I'm so
grateful.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
Multiple countries, multiple continents.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I just so appreciate being invited here.
It's a real honor and I justwant to say thank you and to
your listeners out there.
Hang in there.
We are living in a veryuncertain time, but hang in
there because it's going to beokay.
One way or another, the systemwants to return to equilibrium.
(21:44):
That is a fundamental tenet offamily counseling theory.
I believe it's true and I thinkthat we're going to get back to
equilibrium.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And that's the system collectively and all of the
components of the system.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
The system does not like to be out of balance.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, love that.
It has been an absolutepleasure to have you on the show
, erin.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
So grateful.
The best way to end a week.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yes, Thank you, it's been a lot of fun.
Natalie, I hope we get to meetsome time in person, and Pamela,
I look forward to seeing you inlike a week or two, whenever
that is.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I would love that.
Well, we at least have arunning start.
We're all in the same state nowno-transcript to share your
(22:54):
message with a different vehicle.
And thank you for the work thatyou're doing with young people.
And to Lisa, ben and Liam.
I'm grateful for them as well,because, oh my gosh, again, it's
just the dynamic that, I think,brings forth just all of the
value that you have providedwith us today.
So thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you For our listeners
.
If you all are interested inknowing what's going on in the
(23:15):
world of reignite resilience,head on over to
reigniteresiliencecom, where youcan check us out, or on
Facebook and Instagram.
And if you have not alreadydone so I know I'm a broken
record in saying it Make sureyou subscribe to our weekly
think letter.
It is released every Saturday,where you can hear more about
our episodes, our guests and ourthoughts about our episodes, as
(23:36):
we have our guests on.
So until next time, we'll seeyou all soon.
Have a good one.
Bye, everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience podcast.
We hope you had some ahamoments and learned a few new
real life ideas.
To fuel the flames of passion,please subscribe on your
favorite streaming platform,like or download your favorite
episodes and, of course, sharewith your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite
(24:04):
Resilience.
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