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October 9, 2025 26 mins

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When Natalie found herself frozen at the sight of a simple form asking about her relationship status, she didn't expect the visceral reaction that followed. "That's rude," she thought, refusing to check the "divorced" box that suddenly felt like an unwanted label being forced upon her identity.

This moment of unexpected triggering opens a profound conversation with divorce coach Madison Hedlund about how our bodies process emotional trauma and significant life transitions. Madison explains that these physical reactions aren't just normal—they're valuable messengers about our emotional state that deserve attention rather than suppression.

"Awareness is the first step to shifting anything," Madison shares, introducing listeners to somatic approaches that honor our body's natural responses. She guides us through the process of safely experiencing difficult emotions within our "window of tolerance," gradually expanding our capacity to move through grief, anger, and shame without becoming overwhelmed or disconnected.

The conversation transcends typical divorce discussions by addressing the societal stigma that compounds emotional pain. Madison challenges listeners to release the impossible task of controlling others' perceptions and instead develop unwavering self-trust. "I had to get so much more concerned with what I knew to be true about myself," she reflects, describing her own journey through divorce judgment.

For those supporting someone through divorce, Madison offers revolutionary advice: stop saying "let me know what you need" and start taking concrete action. Send the gift card, drop off dinner, or simply invite them to join your everyday activities. Her "Loved Ones Guide" provides comprehensive resources for friends and family who want to show up meaningfully during this critical time.

Madison's programs range from free mini-courses to one-on-one somatic sessions and her innovative "Well Fed and Unwed" dinner club, creating multiple pathways for healing. Her powerful parting message—"Your healing is inevitable"—reframes divorce not as brokenness but as part of a journey toward wholeness that, while ongoing, leads to genuine transformation.

Ready to explore your own healing journey? Connect with Madison at betterhalftohole.com and join our community at reigniteresilience.com.


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Disclaimer: The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The co-hosts of this podcast are not medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Reliance on any information provided by the podcast hosts or guests is solely at your own risk.

Pamela Cass is a licensed broker with Kentwood Real Estate
Natalie Davis is a licensed broker with Keller Williams Realty Downtown, LLC

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
All of us reach a point in time where we are
depleted and need to somehowfind a way to reignite the fire
within.
But how do we spark that flame?
Welcome to Reignite Resilience,where we will venture into the
heart of the human spirit.
We'll discuss the art ofreigniting our passion and

(00:28):
strategies to stoke ourenthusiasm.
And now here are your hosts,Natalie Davis and Pamela Cass.

SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
Madison, you said that you've started to do some
somatic work as well, or you'reintroducing that into your body
of work that you're offering.
And it's interesting that yousay that because we talk about
like the little triggers.
And as you were doing yourintroduction on our call today,
I remember the first time I hadto fill out a questionnaire and
it was relationship status.
There were options of single anddivorced.

(01:04):
And it was like in that moment,my entire body responded.
And I was like, that's rude.
That's like either I can besingle and not have to check the
divorce button, right?
So that's it was one of thosethings where, and when I say
like your entire body responded,my entire body just like froze
in that moment.
And my first reaction was that'srude.
And of course I'm single becauseI don't want you to label me as

(01:26):
divorced, right?
Because now it's like you justwant to put this additional
label on top of me.
Yes.
Talk to us about the somaticwork because that is a real
thing.
And it pops up when we leastexpect it could have been a
census survey.
I don't remember what it was.
It was like a menial survey thatI was filling out, and I was
like, the audacity.
How dare you ask me that?
It's on your profile forFacebook.
Are you singing?
Divorce.

(01:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So talk to us about that, thatintroduction into the work that
you're doing and what your hopeis in that space with the
introduction of it.

unknown (01:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:55):
Sounds like you were ready to fight the person who is
giving you the survey.

SPEAKER_02 (02:01):
Yeah.
How dare you?
It was me in the form.

SPEAKER_05 (02:06):
None of your business.

SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
Exactly.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:10):
Yeah.
There's several differentsurvival patterns, but depending
on the trigger and depending onyour experience, different
things are going to happen.
So I would say to someone, like,good for you for noticing, like
you're having a response,because awareness is like the
first step to shifting anything.

(02:32):
So to notice what's happening inthe body.
And with the somatic pieces ofthat, the noticing comes first.
And then depending on if you areworking with someone one-on-one
or if someone was working withme, if that trigger came up in a
session, we would work throughthe trying to complete the cycle

(02:54):
of that survival response.
And so if we were workingtogether, I might ask you, like,
where did you feel that in yourbody?
And you like said it was likeadrenaline, or you felt maybe
you felt hot or you had a colorthat was associated with that
experience.

(03:15):
And so we might actually try tomake it bigger before we try to
regulate it or make it smaller,because by just stifling it or
squishing it, you're actuallymaking the response stuck.
Because if you are always tryingto like, if you're getting
worked up and you're alwaystrying to like breathe to calm

(03:37):
yourself down, the trigger willstay there.
And so having the support of afacilitator to guide you through
that whole survival responsewill then allow you to have what
is called renegotiation so thatthe survival response can
dissolve or dissipate in a way.

(03:57):
And so that's really how peoplework through trauma, work
through triggers, is giving thebody enough time and space and
safety to work through naturallywhat it does.
So you might go into that fightor flight response, but then you
give it enough time to actuallydo its thing, and then you can

(04:18):
come back to safety.
And the next time you arefilling out a survey, you might
not want to throat punch thesurvey, but you might be like
annoyed, you know?
So you might have a lesserresponse or a different
response.
Yeah.
I was talking with a woman awhile ago, and she is has been
in like full-blown freeze andshe's trying to tap into rage,

(04:42):
but it's too fast.
I was like, you're not gonna gofrom being totally frozen to
like ready to fight somebodybecause she's like, I need to do
a rage room, and I have thisrage playlist.
And I was like, maybe let'sstart small.
Let's like think about beingannoyed or frustrated.
Like you're trying to jump 10feet and it's not gonna happen.

(05:05):
You have to approach it reallyslowly.
So I told her, like, do this for10 minutes, you know, do this
for two minutes, and then maybein a week you can think about
throat punching someone.
And she was like, Okay.
She's like ready to go.
She's like, I think I could getthere.
I was like, I'm gonna get youthere.

SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
So Natalie, allowing her to feel what she was
feeling, just sitting in thatfeeling before you then push it
away.
Or is that kind of what you'resaying?

SPEAKER_05 (05:34):
Yeah, feeling the feelings as much as you can
manage it, as much as you cantolerate it, but then also not
wanting to, it's called yourwindow of tolerance, you know,
not wanting to blow past thatwhere you are then not present
in your body.
You're not able to notice what'shappening.
And it takes practice.

(05:54):
Yeah.
So maybe in that moment it wastolerable to feel for the
frustration or to feel the angerfor 10 seconds.
Maybe it was two seconds.
Maybe the next time it'll be aminute.
And so noticing what's happeningin the body, and as long as you
can tolerate staying with thefeeling, but as soon as you

(06:16):
notice, you're like, oh, I'mgoing somewhere else.
Maybe at that point, you try totake some deep breaths or you
stand up, you feel your feet onthe floor, you like do something
with your hands so that you cancome back into the body.
We can overdo it by going toodeeply into an emotion or a
feeling so that it's reallydifficult to come back out of

(06:39):
it.
And I think a lot of people areworried about that, especially
with sadness and especially withanger, it becoming
uncontrollable or like unruly.
But then it's also not realityto be living in this constant
bliss state where nothing iswrong ever.
And so it's really practicing,going back and forth between
maybe something you'refrustrated with and something

(07:00):
that's on your gratitude list,and practicing going back and
forth.
Because you do have to feel thefeelings for them to move
through.
But sometimes we can feel sadtoo long.
And it's okay to remind yourselfthat things are gonna be okay
without minimizing or denyingthat you have a range of
emotions.

SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
Are there keys to how you know when I've probably
been in this space a little bittoo long and I probably need to
get out of it?
Are you open to like sharing?
Like sharing like a like like anexample?

SPEAKER_05 (07:34):
Yeah, or like if you feel like you've been really sad
for a while or really angry fora while, like what do you notice
in your body when you have thatthought of like maybe I should
move out of this?

SPEAKER_03 (07:45):
I will just like obsess about it.
Like, and then I'm like, it'sjust like conversations I'm
having in my head with the otherperson that I'm angry with, or I
should it say this.
And I and then I'm just likeobsessed, or then I start like
death strolling on Facebook orInstagram or TikTok or
something, and then I'm like inthis space where I've just

(08:06):
almost like have no awareness ofanything around me.

SPEAKER_05 (08:10):
Yeah.
So if you can, when you start tonotice, like, oh, I'm having
this conversation again.
Oh, I'm starting to get workedup.
I just want to go in, you know,whatever it is you need to do,
seeing if you can notice whenthat starts happening in
yourself.
And maybe you do have like atell for yourself of like, oh,

(08:32):
I've had this thought.
This is it's been five minutes.

SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (08:37):
Or I'm saying one thing and then I'm getting more
angry and saying another thing,and then I'm getting more angry
and saying another thing, andwho do I want to tell?
You know, like whatever,whatever that kind of tipping
point for you is, and maybe yousee the tipping point and you
still go past it, but being moreaware over time of like, oh, I
know if I go look at theirInstagram profile and start

(09:01):
scrolling back years and yearsand years, it's not great for
me.

unknown (09:06):
You know.

SPEAKER_05 (09:07):
Probably should maybe not follow.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Maybe unfollow.
So yeah, noticing when you ifyou can, if you do have the
awareness early on when you'relike starting to go down that.
And then also to becompassionate towards yourself,
because that's a very naturalresponse.
I think it is.

SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
When I go back and think about my, you know, throat
punching the gal that handed methe clipboard to fill out my
relationship status, not herfault.
But Madison, you touched onsomething that was, I think,
right there for me.
It was the stifling of theemotion, right?
Because in going througheverything, you're able to
handle so much, as youmentioned.

(09:48):
And for me, one thing that I hadcontrol over was having to wear
this label of being a divorcee,right?
Like I don't have to say it, Idon't introduce myself as that,
I don't talk about it in myeveryday life.
And then I hit that wall where Ihad to make a choice on a survey
question, right?
And because I stifled what Ilike to say, my relationship

(10:09):
with that label or the word orit being a part of who I am, I
never faced it, you know, headon.
And so then I had that that Idid have that reaction response.
And how many times have wefilled out a questionnaire with
those same questions on there?
And it never, when I wasmarried, it never stood out.
I'm like, Mary, check, let'smove on.
Let's, that's that's the answer.
And so the only one that I thinkwould ever evoke any type of

(10:31):
response is widow, because thenI'd like to have that empathy.
I'm like, oh my gosh, that'd beso hard if you're a widower and
da-da-da.
But not giving myself the spaceto actually just have a
relationship with thatdescriptor, right?
Like you are divorced, and thisis part of who you are, and it's
part of your journey.
It's part of who you, you know,who you are moving forward.
It doesn't define me, but Istifled it for so long.

(10:52):
And I had that moment where itwas like, yep, nope, now you
need to talk about it.
You need to think about it.
Give yourself that space to diveinto it.
Yeah.
I think that's like just apiece.
It's like not as you talk aboutlike giving ourselves the space
to just be with that emotion,it's seeing what relationship we
have with like the labels, thethe life that we're living now,

(11:14):
the new what our future lookslike, and the emotions, right?
It's all of that together.

SPEAKER_05 (11:19):
Yeah, there is a lot of even when moving forward or
ending the relationship is likethe right thing to do, there's
still grief.
It's still a massive change.

SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (11:31):
And then there's also, I think things are
shifting some now, but itdepends on the communities
you're in.
It depends on your family, thestigma around divorce and the
assumptions that come with that.
And then I think also where, atleast for me, I did have a lot
of shame because I was soworried about what are people

(11:53):
going to think of me when theylearn this information about me.
And I had no control over that.
And there was a different storyfor every single person.
And so having to let go oftrying to maintain a reputation
or trying to control thenarrative, it's impossible.

(12:13):
And so I had to get really somuch more concerned with what I
knew to be true about myself.
And then the like the truthwould come out, you know, or
like who I was would come forth,even if someone did judge me or
was disappointed in me orthought I could have done things

(12:35):
differently.
They weren't there.
They don't know the whole story.
They were not in therelationship, and I had to make
a decision that was going to bethe best thing for me and
trusting that.
And it's tricky.
It's a there's a lot of I thinkexpectations around how divorced
people are supposed to act andhow people respond to you says

(12:58):
so much about their perspectiveon divorce, even without knowing
anything about your experience.

SPEAKER_03 (13:06):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
I have um friends that share that they're going
through a divorce or someonethat I meet that's going through
a divorce.
I typically say, congratulationsor my condolences, whichever's
appropriate for you.
Right?
Like, I don't know.
Like, I don't know your story,but I think historically it's
like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
Which, like you said, there isthat level of grief, but you
weren't in the relationship.
So maybe this is a celebrate,like a congratulations and good

(13:32):
for you for recognizing,realizing, making a choice for
yourself.
Or, you know, maybe you were onthe side of it that you it you
were unexpected and you didn'trealize it, or there were
circumstances that led to it.
Every situation is so different.
And I love that I think you'reright.
Like society is shifting awayfrom that response that evokes

(13:54):
shame all the time, right?
It's like, do better, tryharder, do it again, give it
another go.
Whatever it is that was saidhistorically, yeah, that I
watched my parents andgenerations before say and do.

SPEAKER_03 (14:08):
But well, yeah, even predict, you know, in movies we
see it, and in TV shows we seeit.
And sometimes, I mean, I'm in arelationship, but it's like, oh,
you're still still single?
You're not you're not remarriedyet?
And you're like questions.
I was like, you're stillmarried?

SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
You know, that's what I should say back.
You know, it's like, come on,that's a thing.
Wouldn't the tables turn if yousay that you're like, you're
still married?
You're still married to yourhusband?
Oh, really?
How many years has it been?
Surprise.

SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
How'd you manage to pull that off?
Yeah, it's just yeah, and it'sso the then you just don't want
to say anything.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Which is like, well, that's sosilly because, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
It is.
It truly is.
It truly is.
Well, Madison, for ourlisteners, first of all, thank
you for sharing your knowledgeand insight so far.
But I'd love to like if is therea way that they can get in touch
with you if they have anopportunity to work with you?
What would that look like forthem?

SPEAKER_05 (15:08):
Yeah, there are a few different ways we can work
together.
I have a free online mini coursethat is called Divorced Now
What?
And that is accessible toeveryone.
And the best way to accesseverything is going to be my
website, which isbetterhalftohole.com.
And on there you can find thefree mini course and get access

(15:31):
to that.
And then also, if someone isinterested in exploring somatic
work one-on-one, they can bookexploratory session with me and
we can talk about what thatmight look like and really what
it is that they're trying towork through.
And those are really the twomain, two main ways people work

(15:51):
with me.
I share quite a bit on Instagramfor free, different things
around abundance flows and justreminders of you can both be
grieving and be really happy andproud of yourself.
And so, really showing that likeactual real experience of what
it's like to live as a divorcedperson, and that it doesn't have

(16:14):
to be all about divorce.
So the somatic work isone-on-one.
And I also offer groundingsessions that are 30 minutes,
and that's for real, real-timeco-regulation, most of the time
for people who are in the throesof divorce and maybe aren't in a

(16:34):
position to commit to like athree-long container with me
one-on-one, but they have acourt date coming up, or they
have really challenging exchangewith a co-parent.
So those are 30 minutes.
You can book those on mywebsite.
And there was one other thing.
And those are virtual, correct?

SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
It's all virtual.
I said you meet them in thefield.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (17:00):
One thing I am launching, which I'm I'm really
excited about.
It'll be, it's very casual, butit will be like a dinner club
for divorcees, and we'll meetsomewhere in town once a month.
And it's called Well Fed andUnwed.

unknown (17:16):
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (17:16):
Yes.
I love it.
We'll just hang out.
So just really being able tooffer, you know, the self-paced
and then one-on-one and then outin the community and then also
virtually.

SPEAKER_03 (17:29):
So I think a little bit of everything.
I think that that uh well-fedthat's could be really big.
You could be taking overrestaurants with that group.

SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
So you cap them.
I'm loving these dinner eventsthat are that are bubbling up.
Yeah, I think this is awesome.
This is right in our backyardtoo.
So, Madison, it sounds like youknow, it doesn't really matter
what stage a person is in.
Like if they are consideringcontemplating, not sure if
divorce is the path that theywant to go, if they're in the

(17:59):
midst of a divorce, uh, theprocess and proceedings, they
can reach out to youpost-divorce.
And then those that are ready toreintegrate with community
dinner.
Yeah, through dinner, they canconnect with you there as well.

SPEAKER_03 (18:13):
Yeah, I love it.
I wish I had something like thatwhen I was going through my
divorce.
That would have made a hugedifference.

SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
No, I think I'm still gonna do the online course
because you know, you know, younever know like what's gonna
trigger you until it triggersyou.
And then you're sitting therestaring at a clipboard, upset
and angry for who knows why,right?
It's just you don't know.

unknown (18:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (18:35):
Well, and I think there are it's totally legit
that there are things that wehaven't had the emotional
capacity or time to payattention to.
And for you to be like, I'm notgonna analyze my relationship
with the word divorce, you know,as you're going through it, is
also very human.
And so things may come up nowthat you're like, oh, didn't

(18:58):
think about that then.
But you have the the time andthe space and the emotional
capacity to deal with it now.
And that is something we cancelebrate, even though it's not
easy.

SPEAKER_03 (19:09):
Yeah.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
We've talked a lot about the individual going
through.
I'd love to spend just a fewmoments speaking to the people
that make up the community, thetribe, the circles, the support
system.
What advice would you give thoseindividuals?

SPEAKER_05 (19:26):
Just do stuff.
Don't wait for the person to letyou know what they need because
they don't know a lot of times,and they probably don't have the
emotional capacity to thinkabout the five people who said
to them, I'm here for you.
Let me know, reach out.
They're not going to more oftenthan not.

(19:47):
So just showing up, sending thegift card, inviting them to
coffee, stopping by their house,making extra dinner, and just
leaving it, you know, with themthat are really practical and
tangible.
And they'll say if it's like,it's like, you're calling me too
much, you know, but it'sunlikely that they will be like,
I'm getting too much supportfrom you.

(20:08):
Probably not gonna say that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
Wait until they say that.

SPEAKER_04 (20:12):
And then you can also go back.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (20:15):
Yeah.
And then it doesn't have to bethis like, we're planning a
girls' weekend every weekend.
It's like, I'm going to thefarmer's market Saturday.
Do you want to come with me?
So that invitation to join whatyou're already doing.
You don't have to plan a wholenew thing because I just want to
be with people and like havesome normalcy, like sense of

(20:37):
normal routine.
And then, yeah, the let me knowwhat you need, peace is really
huge.
And then also acknowledge thatthere is a mutual loss because
your friendship dynamics haveshifted.
And if it was a relationshipwhere it felt pretty mutual, it
probably won't feel as mutualwhile they're going through the

(20:59):
divorce.
And it's going to take time,it's going to keep coming up.
It's like not going to besomething that you talk about at
one girl's night and then itdoesn't ever come up again.
Like the topic's going to remainfor a while.
And acknowledging, like, oh,this does change the friendship.
And you also get to decide howyou want to engage with that

(21:20):
person.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
I I know that's spot on.
Fabulous.
I wanted to speak to thoseindividuals as well because if
they're listening and wonderinghow can I be of support, what
can I do?
Now they have these tools thatthey can they can apply.

SPEAKER_05 (21:33):
I do also have the loved ones guide for friends and
family supporting the divorcing.

SPEAKER_04 (21:39):
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (21:39):
And it's like 25 pages and it's conversation
starters, tips and tricks, howto support someone who's going
through divorce.
So specifically for thecommunities around someone
divorcing, because theyoftentimes don't know what to do
and then don't do anything.
And that doesn't match theirheart behind supporting their

(22:00):
friend.

SPEAKER_03 (22:00):
So I love that.
And that's available on thewebsite as well.
Okay.
Perfect.
You're going to have a lot ofpeople heading to your website.

SPEAKER_01 (22:08):
Exactly.
I know.
Oh my gosh.
Well, thank you for creatingthose free resources.
And as you said, like you'vedone so much in terms of
training and messaging andresources that are
complimentary.
So thank you for putting thoseout and available in one spot.
Incredible.

SPEAKER_05 (22:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
The loved ones guide is paid, but there are lots of
free ones.
Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 (22:31):
That's all right.
That is something that yeah, Ithink will be very popular.

SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Yes, because you don't know.
So what do you say?
Right?
Is it is it congratulations orI'm sorry, right?
Like I just just because of mypersonality, I can bundle them
together and you take it howeveryou want.
But what do you say?
Like, and what do we do?
How frequently do I reach out toyou?
I think that's those areimportant pieces for the
supporters to know about.
That's a big figures in thosetimes.

(22:56):
Yeah.
Madison, you've shared a ton.
Is there anything that you'dlike to share with our listeners
that we haven't touched on todaythat you want to share?
Make sure that you get out inthe world.

SPEAKER_05 (23:05):
One thing I've started saying recently, and I
really do believe this, is thatyour healing is inevitable.
And it's possible.
And I really do believe that.
And that people experience likebrokenheartedness, but there
isn't you're not broken as ahuman.

(23:27):
I do think healing is possibleand it's ongoing, but it is
inevitable.

SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
That's powerful.
Healing is inevitable.
I think that's a great place forus to that's great.
Madison, thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
This has been an absolutepleasure.
Thank you for sharing all ofyour knowledge as well.
And some of those subtle thingsthat happen in our lives that we
don't realize there's somemeaning to that, that we should
probably stop and explore it,give ourselves some space.

(23:53):
And I'm just gonna go swim insome abundance for you know the
rest of the year.

SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
I like that for the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
For the rest of the year, why not?
It's it's gonna feel amazing.
Oh my gosh.
Well, thank you so much forsharing with us and our
listeners.
We will make sure that we putall of your contact information
in the show notes, as well asyour website.
I've connected with you onInstagram, so I'll make sure to
tag you on some of thoseabundant shares that I have.
And then for our listeners, ifyou have not found us on

(24:22):
YouTube, head on over toYouTube, check out the video
version of this podcast.
But you can also find outeverything that's happening in
the world of Reignite Resilienceat reigniteresilience.com or on
Facebook and Instagram.
And our book is almost ready forrelease.
So we will make sure that we getthat message out to all of you
on where you can purchase.

(24:43):
It's where all books are sold.
So we're really excited aboutthis project coming to a
completion.
And, you know, of course, thereare multiple other books that
are in the works on the backend.
But neither here nor there.
Things are going, things arehappening.
Until next time, we will see youall soon.
Thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_00 (24:58):
Thank you for joining us today on the Reignite
Resilience Podcast.
We hope you had some aha momentsand learned a few new real life
ideas to fuel the flames ofpassion.
Please subscribe on yourfavorite streaming platform,
like or download your favoriteepisodes, and of course, share
with your friends and family.
We look forward to seeing youagain next time on Reignite

(25:21):
Resilience.
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