November 3, 2025 • 35 mins
Rejoicing in Hope hosts, Jamie and Jenny, share their thoughts, feelings and reactions on the talk from:
Elder Kevin G. Brown, Of the Seventy, The Eternal Gift of Testimony. Link to the talk: Elder Kevin G Brown
Join us as we discuss key highlights in this inspiring talk:
· Agency Is the Gift to Choose and Act for Ourselves
· Witness and Testimony
· Testimony Should be Eternal
· Where is Your Sacred Grove?
· To Care for Your Testimony
· I Choose to Believe!
Rejoicing in Hope invites you to discover the joy and guidance that comes from living the gospel of Jesus Christ. For more information on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, click here. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Welcome to the Rejoicing in Hope podcast.
I'm Jamie Grace here with myspectacular wife.
SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
Hey everyone, I'm Jenny.
So glad you're joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
We're your hosts, and welcome to our podcast.
We look forward to diving intothe inspiring talks from this
most recent session of GeneralConference of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-daySaints.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
Each episode, we break down one talk and share
the lessons we've learned touplift and inspire.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04):
These messages help us feel God's love and
strengthen our faith in JesusChrist.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Today we're discussing the talk from Elder
Kevin G.
Brown of the 70, The EternalGift of Testimony.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19):
Very good.
The Eternal Gift of Testimony.
Thoughts about the title.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I didn't have to really even think about the
title because all I saw wasElder Brown, and I knew exactly
which talk it was and howpowerful it was.
SPEAKER_03 (01:44):
Yeah.
Why was it a standout for you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
His passion.
SPEAKER_03 (01:50):
His passion.
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
His passion.
You could feel it.
I I wish we all had his passion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was powerful.
SPEAKER_03 (02:01):
Yeah, I just there's a quote that as I was going
through his talk and studyingit, that I just felt had I had
to put it in here about hiseternal gift of testimony.
And it was about the eternalgift of testimony.
And he says, nothing about it istemporary, not the giver, not
(02:24):
the gift itself, not thedeliverer of the gift, not who
the gift is about.
And I just loved and felt thatreally tied in what this eternal
gift of testimony really means.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:41):
All right, trivia question.
What word was used the mosttimes during Elder Brown's talk?
SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
Testimony.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
Testimony was used twenty-six times.
Yes.
Gift was used fourteen times.
Christ was used thirteen times.
Now, testimony, although usedtwenty-six times.
He referred to testimony ninetytimes.
It was used in like the wordwitness, the word it IT when he
(03:17):
was referencing it about it.
He used the word likeexperience, gift, a sure
witness, sacred experience.
All these things were reallytied.
They were just different wordsfor testimony.
And uh so when you take allthese different words that he
(03:38):
was using that were reallytalking about his testimony, uh
goes from twenty-six times toroughly ninety times.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'm impressed you counted those.
SPEAKER_03 (03:48):
So thank you.
That I that I that I counted toninety or that I put those other
ones in the in it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Just the just the process of thinking about which
other words he used that meanttestimony or referred to
testimony, and then counting 90of those.
That's that was a task.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Okay.
Well, thank you.
I think it'll tie in a littlebit to my number one when we get
to my number one, and you'll seewhy I dove in a little bit more.
So but you'll have to waitbecause you're up.
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
All right.
Well, for my first one, Ibasically took his second um
point or his second, I don'tremember what he referred to
them as um three powerful truthsor something like that.
Yes, yes.
I basically took the second oneand just I'm pretty much gonna
(04:49):
just read that.
It is so good to me.
Um and it's it's because of umhis referring to us being
agents, which is has really beena powerful principle for me over
(05:11):
the last couple of years as I'vebeen dealing with health issues
and now the loss of my mom andand all the the um strain it
puts on me, and I really have tobe conscious of the choices I'm
making, and am I gonna let itswallow me up or am I gonna be
(05:33):
an agent of my own feelings andemotions and actions?
And I can either wallow or Ican, you know, pull myself up
and you know, continue to do thethings that I need to do.
So this first section really umwas powerful to me.
He said the section is calledagency is the gift to choose and
(05:58):
act for ourselves.
It is also the responsibility tochoose well.
Jesus Christ paid the ultimateprice for that privilege with
his precious blood.
Sometimes we might believe thatagency means doing whatever we
want, but the fact that theprice was paid means agency is a
(06:19):
sacred gift.
We are agents, and agents areresponsible for something.
In this case, we are responsiblefor the choices that we make
based on the knowledge that wehave and the gifts we are given.
We cannot make a choice withoutbeing responsible for the
consequences.
Why do we have agency?
(06:41):
To choose good, to chooseChrist, to choose eternal life
again and again.
Those were his words.
And I pretty much literally justread the whole first section,
but I just loved everything hesaid and the way he said it, and
I just couldn't have said it anybetter.
I really um, like I said, I'vejust been drawn to that concept
(07:04):
that we're agents.
I'm a really long ways off fromperfecting that.
I really have a strong desire inme to be that person that I to
have be able to have somethingchallenging happen to me and be
able to calmly and confidentlychoose to act the way the Lord
would have me act in thatsituation.
(07:27):
I love the part where ElderBrown points out to us that the
Lord paid for the privilege forus to be agents to ourselves
with his precious blood.
Because he did.
That is why he did it, so thatwe could choose, so we wouldn't
have to be captive to Satan'splan.
I want to repeat the last threesentences.
(07:48):
Choose good, choose Christ,choose eternal life again and
again.
This isn't easy.
Every day we're faced withchoices that are hard.
Listen to the world.
Who is screaming at the top ofour lungs to choose the way of
the world?
Or we can listen to the stillsmall voice, reminding us why
(08:11):
we're here and where we can findtrue healing and joy if we
choose it.
And that's such a powerfulmessage.
And it is powerful that theworld is screaming and the still
small voice is quietly teachingus, and it's through Jesus
(08:34):
Christ and his sacrifice wherewe're going to find the strength
and be able to choose that.
SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
That was wonderfully said.
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
I could listen to this talk every day.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
So my number one, I titled witness and testimony.
I spent a lot of my study timethis week on these two words,
witness and testimony.
And I've come to the conclusionthat we use the word testimony
(09:25):
incorrectly within churchsettings.
Let me explain.
Okay.
Witness emphasizes the act ofexperiencing something
firsthand, whether that'sseeing, feeling, tasting,
smelling, etc.
(09:46):
This means you have personallyexperienced something and can
attest to it.
Testimony focuses on thedeclaration or statement that
results from witnessing.
It is an expression of whatyou've come to know or witness,
usually done verbally.
(10:10):
In simple terms, witness whatyou experience and know
firsthand, testimony what yousay about the experience.
So they are inseparable parts ofthe same truth, but you witness
through experience and youtestify through words.
Okay?
Or or it could be actions.
So and they overlap, but butthey're just not perfect, okay.
(10:32):
But in church settings, we usethem interchangeably.
Yeah.
And it was just an interesting,even in in Elder Brand's talk,
he did the same thing.
And as I've just listened andthrough things, I'm like, ah,
we've we don't use it in thecorrect terminology.
(10:55):
That wasn't what I was lookinginto because I am not an English
person in any way, but I wasjust looking into this and
started understanding this alittle more.
So I did do some stuff, like I Ieven went to the Book of Mormon
to see how does the Book ofMormon use the word testimony.
The Book of Mormon uses itcorrectly.
Each time it was always anactual testimony of either
(11:18):
somebody's words or somebody'sactions, um, which is always
based off of their witness.
So it's inter interesting likehow that has we've started
potentially using that wordincorrectly, what at when you
when you when people say theirtestimony or or something.
(11:38):
So now we'll probably neverchange the culture of the church
on the way it's used.
And I'm not trying to do thattoday.
The only way it's gonna happenis if a prophet gets up and
teaches it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Well, I'm starting to think I need to like redo my
whole thing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
I even think further my thing, I probably change a
minute in a while.
It was just more of a somethingto understand that that they are
there is a difference betweenthe two of them of what that
something that you are a witnessto and you're a testimony of
something.
So but I here are a couplequotes I love from Elder Brown.
(12:13):
He says, A witness from the HolyGhost is greater than sight.
He says, I had an experiencewith the Holy Ghost.
That experience changed me.
So why do I bring this up,right?
Like, okay, sure.
So it was one, it was just I waslearning, and then when I was
going through all those words oftestimony and similar words, I
(12:36):
was just intrigued because ofthem and I wanted to understand
them.
So, but secondly, the witness wereceived from our Father in
heaven is so powerful in ourlives.
If you had a witness, the truthcannot change.
You've had that witness.
(12:57):
For example, if you see littleJohnny push little Sally over on
the playground, you're a witnessthat Johnny pushed Sally over.
It is truth, cannot change.
The why behind Johnny's actionis not part of the witness.
Yeah.
Right?
That truth will always be true.
Johnny pushed Sally over.
Okay.
(13:18):
When we remember the witnesswe've received, we have to
remember it.
It was the truth then, and itwill still be the truth today,
and it will still be the truthtomorrow.
Even if someone or somethingtries to change our thoughts by
adding in other elements.
For example, why did Johnny pushover Sally?
(13:40):
Right?
Nope.
The witness and truth is stillthere.
Johnny pushed Sally over.
So the third was with thatwitness, we have the opportunity
to tell of those truths.
If someone asks us uh if Johnnypushed over Sally, the answer is
yes.
If they ask us why, we do nothave a witness of it.
(14:04):
So when we have received awitness from God, we can tell
others about it.
And that's our testimony.
We're able to share what we can,what we have learned.
What has the Holy Ghost taughtus in different ways in our
life?
He has testified of things tous, and the Holy Ghost testifies
to us.
He's speaking to us, right?
(14:25):
Giving us a witness now from theHoly Ghost.
And then we can do this.
We can testify with in ourhomes, with our coworkers and
friends, with neighbors, in ourcallings or in classes we
attend.
We can do it in a talk or duringtestimony meetings.
We also can do it in how we liveour life every day.
Our actions are can be atestimony so that other people
(14:50):
can see it.
All those our words and ouractions are testimonies to what
the witness that we havereceived from the Holy Ghost.
A witness that can never change.
It can only be doled because wedon't remember it on purpose or
(15:18):
we don't testify of it enough toallow it to be doled.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yeah.
I really think that's anintriguing thought process.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (15:37):
Yes.
Not necessarily what anythingabout Elder Brown, except for he
talked about what's testimonyand having that passion, but
understanding it was more justlike, okay, what is a testimony?
Yeah, and what is a witness?
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
So all right, my number two is testimony should
be eternal.
He says, brothers and sisters, atestimony is not given for
temporary use.
This gift from our lovingHeavenly Father is meant to be
eternal because the giver iseternal.
(16:09):
A testimony should not have anexpiration date.
It should not weaken or diminishbecause something in life has
changed or something in theworld has changed.
It should not, it should getstronger because, like the
servant's talents in the parableof the talents, my personal
testimony is a gift to bemultiplied, not buried.
(16:30):
Who or what will you allow totake that away?
This particularly stood out tome because I feel like changes
in the world are affecting thetestimonies of our loved ones.
Yeah.
I love how Elder Brown says thatour testimonies are eternal.
(16:51):
And it is, of course, becauseHeavenly Father is eternal.
And nothing can change that.
Nothing can change who he is.
He's the same yesterday, today,and forever.
If we believed in him once, whywould that change?
The question I read at the endof the quote came a little later
in his talk.
(17:12):
I'll read it again.
He says, Who or what will allowwill you allow to take your
testimony away?
I think every one of us needs toask ourselves that question
because we are all makingchoices every day that either
bring us closer to God or pullus away from him.
Every choice we make.
(17:34):
For many of God's children thathave lost their testimonies or
they've weakened, it began beganslowly.
They stopped doing the littlethings.
Then it became easier to let goof the bigger things until their
testimony was lost altogether.
This made me think of therepeated reminder that we have
(17:56):
been given lately of dailyrepentance.
I think part of that is takingcare of our testimony like the
gift that it is.
Remembering it every day andnurturing it every day.
Forever.
Forever.
Because it is eternal.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Yeah.
Elder Brown stated, Jamaica isto me like Palmyra was to Joseph
Smith.
Elder Brand Brown then gave theaddress of his Sacred Grove for
(18:38):
Grove Road, Mandeville, Jamaica.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
Which makes me very tender hearted today.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
That's right.
Yes.
Because of the hurricane thatjust went through there.
It's Melissa, right?
Hurricane Melissa just wentthrough Jamaica and wondering.
And wondering what's happenedthere, yes.
Well, before Hurricane Melissa,I opened up Google Maps to find
where this is in Jamaica sincewe've been there a few times.
(19:09):
Just wanted to see.
And on Google Maps, when youtype in the address given, there
is a location marker titledElder Kevin G.
Brown's Sacred Grove.
It has 33 views and has fivestars.
I loved that since that point intime that has been put on Google
(19:34):
Maps.
Yeah.
And people have gone out thereand put their own.
Other people like you.
There's other people that wantedto know where Four Grove Road in
Mandeville, Jamaica was.
And then 33 of them leftreviews.
So five stars.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Five star reviews.
SPEAKER_03 (19:54):
Five star reviews.
So where is my sacred grove?
Where is my palmyra?
And I can remember threedistinct times when I was
finding my own answers out aboutthe gospel of Jesus Christ.
The first was in Riverside,California, where I was living
at the time.
I remember exactly where I wasin the house and what I was
(20:17):
doing when God gave me a surewitness of the Book of Mormon.
The second was in Provo, Utah,where I was in the MTC.
I remember exactly the situationand what was going on when I
received a sure witness of thefirst vision.
Finally, the third was inWisconsin, where we lived for a
(20:39):
very short time.
I was driving to work betweenOshkosh and New Berlin when I
received a sure witness ofJoseph Smith as a prophet of
God.
All three of those have alwaysbeen profound reminders to me
(20:59):
and sacred grove memories ofthose time frames.
But I'll also admit I've hadsacred experiences in many, many
places.
Maybe not as pronounced as thosethree, but they're all sacred
groves.
And those location locations aretoo numerous to list, and I will
(21:20):
forget some.
But I mean, from you know, in myown office upstairs, it could
be, you know, in a sacramentmeeting that I've been into in
the temple.
But I had an experience that Godloves me and is aware of me and
exactly how I'm feeling in manyplaces.
(21:40):
But I had one that was in themost ridiculous place to say.
But it was in a bathroom on anairplane.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
That's weird.
SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
Maybe a story for another podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Ah, don't leave a thing.
SPEAKER_03 (21:57):
But I I want to close with this quote from Elder
Brown.
Because of his divineattributes, our Heavenly Father
gives us every good gift, eachwith his eternal perspective and
vision in mind.
Yes, our Heavenly Father wantsto give us every good gift.
(22:18):
If we are listening, if our eyesare open, we can witness these
gifts in our lives.
And yes, even on an airplane inthe bathroom.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
The listeners want to know.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
Yes.
And want to tell the storyanother time.
When that witness is it needs tobe shared.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
All right.
Are you finished?
Yes.
All right.
My third one is to care for yourtestimony.
And I talked a little bit aboutthis already in my second quote.
But I wanted to talk more aboutwhat specifically we can do to
protect our testimony.
(23:08):
Elder Brown says, if we find ourtestimony weakening, remember
that it is the choices we makethat diminish the power of the
testimony.
But the testimony hasn't goneanywhere.
We just need to choose toreconnect with it.
President Nelson taught, I pleadwith you to take charge of your
(23:30):
testimony, work for it, own it,care for it, nurture it so that
it will grow, feed it truth.
To me, the words take charge,work, care, own, nurture, and
feed sound like an agent givenstewardship for something
precious and important.
(23:51):
Those were Elder Brown's words.
What are some reasons that ourtestimony weakens?
Here are a few of the ways Icould see my testimony could
weaken.
First, trials.
I think trials cause us to doubtthat there's a God that cares.
When we go through trials, itcan feel that way, but we have a
(24:15):
choice, turn to God or turnaway.
Elder Brown says, like JosephSmith, who affirmed his
testimony despite opposition, wecan boldly say, I knew it, and I
knew that God knew it, and Icould not deny it, neither dared
I do it.
The second reason I've seen thattestimonies weaken is when we
(24:40):
start to have questions thatdon't seem to have answers.
And I think we are seeing a lotof that in the younger
generations that have socialmedia, you know, that's teaching
them, preaching to them.
Questions aren't bad, but askyourself, are you asking for the
(25:02):
right reasons?
Elder Ukdorf once said, Doubtyour doubts before you doubt
your faith.
Elder Brown goes on to say, Icommend you for making your own
way by asking questions,studying, praying, fasting, and
pondering.
Please don't stop.
It is worth every effort topursue this path to testimony.
(25:26):
The third thing I thought ofthat can weaken our testimony is
just letting things of the worldstart to take priority over the
things of eternity.
Initially, probably those thingswon't change how you feel about
the savior or the gospel much,but over time it definitely
could.
Skipping church, not findingtime for the temple, not opening
(25:48):
your scriptures day after day,it will add up over time and
we'll become less sensitive tothe promptings of the Spirit.
We'll feel a disconnect from theSavior.
I'm gonna quote him again wherehe says, Who or what will you
allow to take your testimonyaway?
SPEAKER_03 (26:09):
It's bold.
Yeah, to how do you even how doyou even answer that?
Because if you do, you're justbeing silly.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, I mean it's like yeah, it's a powerful
question.
Yeah.
It's a powerful question.
SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
My number three is I choose to believe.
The title of the section was inmy notes during the live session
of conference.
I wrote I choose to believe withan exclamation point.
Choosing to believe is anaction.
If we want a witness of thetruthfulness, we must take
(26:46):
action.
Elder Brenn Elder Brown said, Icommend you for making your own
way by asking questions,studying, praying, fasting, and
pondering.
Please don't stop.
It is worth every effort.
(27:07):
What greater witness can youhave than from God?
He also said every son ordaughter of God can gain a
deeper, firmer, and sureknowledge for themselves.
Once we have a witness, we needto share it.
Why?
(27:27):
Why should we share ourtestimony?
I wrote down a couple ofreasons.
Our witness and testimony willgrow weaker from disuse.
If we stop talking about whatGod has done for us, we may
start to forget the details andsignificance of those events.
Our witness and testimony is away to show gratitude to God.
(27:52):
Our testimony puts the focus onGod's goodness, his mercy, his
faithfulness, and not onourselves.
And reminds us that God is theauthor of every good thing in
our life.
My third point.
Hearing how God has worked insomeone else's life can be a
(28:16):
powerful source of hope andencouragement, particularly for
those going through similarstruggles.
Number four, our witness andtestimony spreads the gospel.
A personal story is one of themost effective tools for sharing
God's word.
Our personal accounts oftransformation can draw others
(28:37):
to a relationship with Jesus anddiscover his true church.
And finally, number five, ourwitness and testimony
strengthens our own faith.
The act of recalling andspeaking about God's
faithfulness reinforces our ownfaith and reminds us how far we
(28:57):
have come.
It helps us to clearly see God'shand at work in our life.
And then I came across thisverse that I thought was very
appropriate.
It's in Revelation chapter 12,verse 11.
And they overcame him, himmeaning Satan, and they overcame
(29:19):
him by the blood of the Lamb andby the word of their testimony.
So we can overcome Satan when weshare our testimony.
(29:51):
Elder Brown promised us the sameabout our testimonies.
He says that our testimonieswill enable you to develop
spiritual gifts.
It will help you in yourpersonal ministry and service.
It will be a weapon againstSatan and your adversaries.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
I liked that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
So he's repeating exactly what we hear from John
in the book of Revelation.
Yeah.
Finally, he says this seek it.
It is urgent.
Do you have any bonus quotes?
SPEAKER_02 (30:25):
I did.
The rest of the talk.
No.
Um I had a few.
SPEAKER_03 (30:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Choosing to believe is a wise and powerful way to
use our agency.
SPEAKER_03 (30:42):
I had it is in his nature to bless us.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
I cannot see a better way to use my agency than
in defense of my testimony.
unknown (30:56):
Good.
SPEAKER_03 (30:56):
I had one other one, but you said it earlier, so.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
Well, I can never remember whether you said them
earlier or not.
I have one more.
You may have said it earlier.
I don't know.
I invite you to think about yourpath to a sure witness of Jesus
Christ and his gospel.
Take charge of your testimony.
Use your agency wisely andacknowledge the giver and all
his glorious attributes.
I bear witness that the power iswithin you.
(31:22):
No one can choose for you.
No one can take this gift away.
You can choose to believe.
SPEAKER_03 (31:29):
Choose to believe.
That was my point three.
I didn't use that quote, butthat's what's the well, what
will you do differently?
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
I am going to start by bearing my testimony more,
but I hope someday to be likeElder Brown and bear my
testimony with the kind ofconviction and passion he has.
SPEAKER_03 (31:54):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (31:55):
I don't know if I ever get there.
Like yeah.
Oh, to be like Elder Brown.
Don't you think everybody wouldlisten in sacrament meeting if
we all preached our, you know,gave our talks with the same
(32:20):
passion that Elder Brown has.
Yeah.
Nobody be sleeping.
SPEAKER_03 (32:29):
Well, I put down that I need to share more.
Of course, we share on thispodcast, but there are
opportunities for me to sharemore of my witness of him and
the blessings he pours out uponme, and I need to do more of
sharing.
(32:49):
Well, thank you for joining uson the Rejoicing in Hope
podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
We pray today's insights help you grow closer to
Christ and strengthen yourfaith.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
I bear testimony of the witness I have of this
restored church of Jesus Christ.
I know the Book of Mormon is theWord of God.
I have read it many, many times,and it helps me always to draw
closer to Jesus Christ.
It is companion scripture to theOld and New Testament which also
(33:20):
testify of Jesus Christ.
They all work together.
I know Joseph Smith was calledof God to restore this church.
He was a prophet of God nodifferent than Moses, Elijah,
Abraham, and others.
He saw God the Father and hisSon Jesus Christ.
(33:41):
Today Dallin H.
Oaks is his prophet on the earthtoday.
I testify that obedience to thecommandments of God, because of
our love for him, will allow usto someday return to our
heavenly home.
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
I have a testimony that I have a heavenly father
that loves me.
I know that Jesus Christ is mySavior.
I know that Joseph Smith was aliving prophet, and through him
Jesus Christ's true church isrestored to the earth.
I know the Book of Mormon is atrue is true scripture and
another testament of JesusChrist.
(34:20):
I know that President DalinateJokes is the living prophet on
the earth today.
I know all these things andmore, and I want to protect this
testimony and grow it and carefor it and share it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
If you enjoyed this episode, follow, review, or
share it with a friend.
Most importantly, keep seekingthe Lord and rejoicing in the
hope he offers.
SPEAKER_02 (34:47):
Next week, we will explore the talk from Sister J.
Annette Dennis, First Counselorin the Relief Society General
President C, cheering each otheron.
SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
See you next time.
Welcome to the Rejoicing in Hope podcast.
I'm Jamie Grace here with myspectacular wife.
SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
Hey everyone, I'm Jenny.
So glad you're joining us.
SPEAKER_03 (00:42):
We're your hosts, and welcome to our podcast.
We look forward to diving intothe inspiring talks from this
most recent session of GeneralConference of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-daySaints.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
Each episode, we break down one talk and share
the lessons we've learned touplift and inspire.
SPEAKER_03 (01:04):
These messages help us feel God's love and
strengthen our faith in JesusChrist.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
Today we're discussing the talk from Elder
Kevin G.
Brown of the 70, The EternalGift of Testimony.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19):
Very good.
The Eternal Gift of Testimony.
Thoughts about the title.
SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
I didn't have to really even think about the
title because all I saw wasElder Brown, and I knew exactly
which talk it was and howpowerful it was.
SPEAKER_03 (01:44):
Yeah.
Why was it a standout for you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
His passion.
SPEAKER_03 (01:50):
His passion.
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
His passion.
You could feel it.
I I wish we all had his passion.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was powerful.
SPEAKER_03 (02:01):
Yeah, I just there's a quote that as I was going
through his talk and studyingit, that I just felt had I had
to put it in here about hiseternal gift of testimony.
And it was about the eternalgift of testimony.
And he says, nothing about it istemporary, not the giver, not
(02:24):
the gift itself, not thedeliverer of the gift, not who
the gift is about.
And I just loved and felt thatreally tied in what this eternal
gift of testimony really means.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (02:41):
All right, trivia question.
What word was used the mosttimes during Elder Brown's talk?
SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
Testimony.
SPEAKER_03 (02:53):
Testimony was used twenty-six times.
Yes.
Gift was used fourteen times.
Christ was used thirteen times.
Now, testimony, although usedtwenty-six times.
He referred to testimony ninetytimes.
It was used in like the wordwitness, the word it IT when he
(03:17):
was referencing it about it.
He used the word likeexperience, gift, a sure
witness, sacred experience.
All these things were reallytied.
They were just different wordsfor testimony.
And uh so when you take allthese different words that he
(03:38):
was using that were reallytalking about his testimony, uh
goes from twenty-six times toroughly ninety times.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
I'm impressed you counted those.
SPEAKER_03 (03:48):
So thank you.
That I that I that I counted toninety or that I put those other
ones in the in it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Just the just the process of thinking about which
other words he used that meanttestimony or referred to
testimony, and then counting 90of those.
That's that was a task.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Okay.
Well, thank you.
I think it'll tie in a littlebit to my number one when we get
to my number one, and you'll seewhy I dove in a little bit more.
So but you'll have to waitbecause you're up.
SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
All right.
Well, for my first one, Ibasically took his second um
point or his second, I don'tremember what he referred to
them as um three powerful truthsor something like that.
Yes, yes.
I basically took the second oneand just I'm pretty much gonna
(04:49):
just read that.
It is so good to me.
Um and it's it's because of umhis referring to us being
agents, which is has really beena powerful principle for me over
(05:11):
the last couple of years as I'vebeen dealing with health issues
and now the loss of my mom andand all the the um strain it
puts on me, and I really have tobe conscious of the choices I'm
making, and am I gonna let itswallow me up or am I gonna be
(05:33):
an agent of my own feelings andemotions and actions?
And I can either wallow or Ican, you know, pull myself up
and you know, continue to do thethings that I need to do.
So this first section really umwas powerful to me.
He said the section is calledagency is the gift to choose and
(05:58):
act for ourselves.
It is also the responsibility tochoose well.
Jesus Christ paid the ultimateprice for that privilege with
his precious blood.
Sometimes we might believe thatagency means doing whatever we
want, but the fact that theprice was paid means agency is a
(06:19):
sacred gift.
We are agents, and agents areresponsible for something.
In this case, we are responsiblefor the choices that we make
based on the knowledge that wehave and the gifts we are given.
We cannot make a choice withoutbeing responsible for the
consequences.
Why do we have agency?
(06:41):
To choose good, to chooseChrist, to choose eternal life
again and again.
Those were his words.
And I pretty much literally justread the whole first section,
but I just loved everything hesaid and the way he said it, and
I just couldn't have said it anybetter.
I really um, like I said, I'vejust been drawn to that concept
(07:04):
that we're agents.
I'm a really long ways off fromperfecting that.
I really have a strong desire inme to be that person that I to
have be able to have somethingchallenging happen to me and be
able to calmly and confidentlychoose to act the way the Lord
would have me act in thatsituation.
(07:27):
I love the part where ElderBrown points out to us that the
Lord paid for the privilege forus to be agents to ourselves
with his precious blood.
Because he did.
That is why he did it, so thatwe could choose, so we wouldn't
have to be captive to Satan'splan.
I want to repeat the last threesentences.
(07:48):
Choose good, choose Christ,choose eternal life again and
again.
This isn't easy.
Every day we're faced withchoices that are hard.
Listen to the world.
Who is screaming at the top ofour lungs to choose the way of
the world?
Or we can listen to the stillsmall voice, reminding us why
(08:11):
we're here and where we can findtrue healing and joy if we
choose it.
And that's such a powerfulmessage.
And it is powerful that theworld is screaming and the still
small voice is quietly teachingus, and it's through Jesus
(08:34):
Christ and his sacrifice wherewe're going to find the strength
and be able to choose that.
SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
That was wonderfully said.
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
I could listen to this talk every day.
SPEAKER_03 (09:04):
So my number one, I titled witness and testimony.
I spent a lot of my study timethis week on these two words,
witness and testimony.
And I've come to the conclusionthat we use the word testimony
(09:25):
incorrectly within churchsettings.
Let me explain.
Okay.
Witness emphasizes the act ofexperiencing something
firsthand, whether that'sseeing, feeling, tasting,
smelling, etc.
(09:46):
This means you have personallyexperienced something and can
attest to it.
Testimony focuses on thedeclaration or statement that
results from witnessing.
It is an expression of whatyou've come to know or witness,
usually done verbally.
(10:10):
In simple terms, witness whatyou experience and know
firsthand, testimony what yousay about the experience.
So they are inseparable parts ofthe same truth, but you witness
through experience and youtestify through words.
Okay?
Or or it could be actions.
So and they overlap, but butthey're just not perfect, okay.
(10:32):
But in church settings, we usethem interchangeably.
Yeah.
And it was just an interesting,even in in Elder Brand's talk,
he did the same thing.
And as I've just listened andthrough things, I'm like, ah,
we've we don't use it in thecorrect terminology.
(10:55):
That wasn't what I was lookinginto because I am not an English
person in any way, but I wasjust looking into this and
started understanding this alittle more.
So I did do some stuff, like I Ieven went to the Book of Mormon
to see how does the Book ofMormon use the word testimony.
The Book of Mormon uses itcorrectly.
Each time it was always anactual testimony of either
(11:18):
somebody's words or somebody'sactions, um, which is always
based off of their witness.
So it's inter interesting likehow that has we've started
potentially using that wordincorrectly, what at when you
when you when people say theirtestimony or or something.
(11:38):
So now we'll probably neverchange the culture of the church
on the way it's used.
And I'm not trying to do thattoday.
The only way it's gonna happenis if a prophet gets up and
teaches it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Well, I'm starting to think I need to like redo my
whole thing.
SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
I even think further my thing, I probably change a
minute in a while.
It was just more of a somethingto understand that that they are
there is a difference betweenthe two of them of what that
something that you are a witnessto and you're a testimony of
something.
So but I here are a couplequotes I love from Elder Brown.
(12:13):
He says, A witness from the HolyGhost is greater than sight.
He says, I had an experiencewith the Holy Ghost.
That experience changed me.
So why do I bring this up,right?
Like, okay, sure.
So it was one, it was just I waslearning, and then when I was
going through all those words oftestimony and similar words, I
(12:36):
was just intrigued because ofthem and I wanted to understand
them.
So, but secondly, the witness wereceived from our Father in
heaven is so powerful in ourlives.
If you had a witness, the truthcannot change.
You've had that witness.
(12:57):
For example, if you see littleJohnny push little Sally over on
the playground, you're a witnessthat Johnny pushed Sally over.
It is truth, cannot change.
The why behind Johnny's actionis not part of the witness.
Yeah.
Right?
That truth will always be true.
Johnny pushed Sally over.
Okay.
(13:18):
When we remember the witnesswe've received, we have to
remember it.
It was the truth then, and itwill still be the truth today,
and it will still be the truthtomorrow.
Even if someone or somethingtries to change our thoughts by
adding in other elements.
For example, why did Johnny pushover Sally?
(13:40):
Right?
Nope.
The witness and truth is stillthere.
Johnny pushed Sally over.
So the third was with thatwitness, we have the opportunity
to tell of those truths.
If someone asks us uh if Johnnypushed over Sally, the answer is
yes.
If they ask us why, we do nothave a witness of it.
(14:04):
So when we have received awitness from God, we can tell
others about it.
And that's our testimony.
We're able to share what we can,what we have learned.
What has the Holy Ghost taughtus in different ways in our
life?
He has testified of things tous, and the Holy Ghost testifies
to us.
He's speaking to us, right?
(14:25):
Giving us a witness now from theHoly Ghost.
And then we can do this.
We can testify with in ourhomes, with our coworkers and
friends, with neighbors, in ourcallings or in classes we
attend.
We can do it in a talk or duringtestimony meetings.
We also can do it in how we liveour life every day.
Our actions are can be atestimony so that other people
(14:50):
can see it.
All those our words and ouractions are testimonies to what
the witness that we havereceived from the Holy Ghost.
A witness that can never change.
It can only be doled because wedon't remember it on purpose or
(15:18):
we don't testify of it enough toallow it to be doled.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
Yeah.
I really think that's anintriguing thought process.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (15:37):
Yes.
Not necessarily what anythingabout Elder Brown, except for he
talked about what's testimonyand having that passion, but
understanding it was more justlike, okay, what is a testimony?
Yeah, and what is a witness?
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
So all right, my number two is testimony should
be eternal.
He says, brothers and sisters, atestimony is not given for
temporary use.
This gift from our lovingHeavenly Father is meant to be
eternal because the giver iseternal.
(16:09):
A testimony should not have anexpiration date.
It should not weaken or diminishbecause something in life has
changed or something in theworld has changed.
It should not, it should getstronger because, like the
servant's talents in the parableof the talents, my personal
testimony is a gift to bemultiplied, not buried.
(16:30):
Who or what will you allow totake that away?
This particularly stood out tome because I feel like changes
in the world are affecting thetestimonies of our loved ones.
Yeah.
I love how Elder Brown says thatour testimonies are eternal.
(16:51):
And it is, of course, becauseHeavenly Father is eternal.
And nothing can change that.
Nothing can change who he is.
He's the same yesterday, today,and forever.
If we believed in him once, whywould that change?
The question I read at the endof the quote came a little later
in his talk.
(17:12):
I'll read it again.
He says, Who or what will allowwill you allow to take your
testimony away?
I think every one of us needs toask ourselves that question
because we are all makingchoices every day that either
bring us closer to God or pullus away from him.
Every choice we make.
(17:34):
For many of God's children thathave lost their testimonies or
they've weakened, it began beganslowly.
They stopped doing the littlethings.
Then it became easier to let goof the bigger things until their
testimony was lost altogether.
This made me think of therepeated reminder that we have
(17:56):
been given lately of dailyrepentance.
I think part of that is takingcare of our testimony like the
gift that it is.
Remembering it every day andnurturing it every day.
Forever.
Forever.
Because it is eternal.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Yeah.
Elder Brown stated, Jamaica isto me like Palmyra was to Joseph
Smith.
Elder Brand Brown then gave theaddress of his Sacred Grove for
(18:38):
Grove Road, Mandeville, Jamaica.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
Which makes me very tender hearted today.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
That's right.
Yes.
Because of the hurricane thatjust went through there.
It's Melissa, right?
Hurricane Melissa just wentthrough Jamaica and wondering.
And wondering what's happenedthere, yes.
Well, before Hurricane Melissa,I opened up Google Maps to find
where this is in Jamaica sincewe've been there a few times.
(19:09):
Just wanted to see.
And on Google Maps, when youtype in the address given, there
is a location marker titledElder Kevin G.
Brown's Sacred Grove.
It has 33 views and has fivestars.
I loved that since that point intime that has been put on Google
(19:34):
Maps.
Yeah.
And people have gone out thereand put their own.
Other people like you.
There's other people that wantedto know where Four Grove Road in
Mandeville, Jamaica was.
And then 33 of them leftreviews.
So five stars.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
Five star reviews.
SPEAKER_03 (19:54):
Five star reviews.
So where is my sacred grove?
Where is my palmyra?
And I can remember threedistinct times when I was
finding my own answers out aboutthe gospel of Jesus Christ.
The first was in Riverside,California, where I was living
at the time.
I remember exactly where I wasin the house and what I was
(20:17):
doing when God gave me a surewitness of the Book of Mormon.
The second was in Provo, Utah,where I was in the MTC.
I remember exactly the situationand what was going on when I
received a sure witness of thefirst vision.
Finally, the third was inWisconsin, where we lived for a
(20:39):
very short time.
I was driving to work betweenOshkosh and New Berlin when I
received a sure witness ofJoseph Smith as a prophet of
God.
All three of those have alwaysbeen profound reminders to me
(20:59):
and sacred grove memories ofthose time frames.
But I'll also admit I've hadsacred experiences in many, many
places.
Maybe not as pronounced as thosethree, but they're all sacred
groves.
And those location locations aretoo numerous to list, and I will
(21:20):
forget some.
But I mean, from you know, in myown office upstairs, it could
be, you know, in a sacramentmeeting that I've been into in
the temple.
But I had an experience that Godloves me and is aware of me and
exactly how I'm feeling in manyplaces.
(21:40):
But I had one that was in themost ridiculous place to say.
But it was in a bathroom on anairplane.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
That's weird.
SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
Maybe a story for another podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Ah, don't leave a thing.
SPEAKER_03 (21:57):
But I I want to close with this quote from Elder
Brown.
Because of his divineattributes, our Heavenly Father
gives us every good gift, eachwith his eternal perspective and
vision in mind.
Yes, our Heavenly Father wantsto give us every good gift.
(22:18):
If we are listening, if our eyesare open, we can witness these
gifts in our lives.
And yes, even on an airplane inthe bathroom.
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
The listeners want to know.
SPEAKER_03 (22:33):
Yes.
And want to tell the storyanother time.
When that witness is it needs tobe shared.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
All right.
Are you finished?
Yes.
All right.
My third one is to care for yourtestimony.
And I talked a little bit aboutthis already in my second quote.
But I wanted to talk more aboutwhat specifically we can do to
protect our testimony.
(23:08):
Elder Brown says, if we find ourtestimony weakening, remember
that it is the choices we makethat diminish the power of the
testimony.
But the testimony hasn't goneanywhere.
We just need to choose toreconnect with it.
President Nelson taught, I pleadwith you to take charge of your
(23:30):
testimony, work for it, own it,care for it, nurture it so that
it will grow, feed it truth.
To me, the words take charge,work, care, own, nurture, and
feed sound like an agent givenstewardship for something
precious and important.
(23:51):
Those were Elder Brown's words.
What are some reasons that ourtestimony weakens?
Here are a few of the ways Icould see my testimony could
weaken.
First, trials.
I think trials cause us to doubtthat there's a God that cares.
When we go through trials, itcan feel that way, but we have a
(24:15):
choice, turn to God or turnaway.
Elder Brown says, like JosephSmith, who affirmed his
testimony despite opposition, wecan boldly say, I knew it, and I
knew that God knew it, and Icould not deny it, neither dared
I do it.
The second reason I've seen thattestimonies weaken is when we
(24:40):
start to have questions thatdon't seem to have answers.
And I think we are seeing a lotof that in the younger
generations that have socialmedia, you know, that's teaching
them, preaching to them.
Questions aren't bad, but askyourself, are you asking for the
(25:02):
right reasons?
Elder Ukdorf once said, Doubtyour doubts before you doubt
your faith.
Elder Brown goes on to say, Icommend you for making your own
way by asking questions,studying, praying, fasting, and
pondering.
Please don't stop.
It is worth every effort topursue this path to testimony.
(25:26):
The third thing I thought ofthat can weaken our testimony is
just letting things of the worldstart to take priority over the
things of eternity.
Initially, probably those thingswon't change how you feel about
the savior or the gospel much,but over time it definitely
could.
Skipping church, not findingtime for the temple, not opening
(25:48):
your scriptures day after day,it will add up over time and
we'll become less sensitive tothe promptings of the Spirit.
We'll feel a disconnect from theSavior.
I'm gonna quote him again wherehe says, Who or what will you
allow to take your testimonyaway?
SPEAKER_03 (26:09):
It's bold.
Yeah, to how do you even how doyou even answer that?
Because if you do, you're justbeing silly.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, I mean it's like yeah, it's a powerful
question.
Yeah.
It's a powerful question.
SPEAKER_03 (26:24):
My number three is I choose to believe.
The title of the section was inmy notes during the live session
of conference.
I wrote I choose to believe withan exclamation point.
Choosing to believe is anaction.
If we want a witness of thetruthfulness, we must take
(26:46):
action.
Elder Brenn Elder Brown said, Icommend you for making your own
way by asking questions,studying, praying, fasting, and
pondering.
Please don't stop.
It is worth every effort.
(27:07):
What greater witness can youhave than from God?
He also said every son ordaughter of God can gain a
deeper, firmer, and sureknowledge for themselves.
Once we have a witness, we needto share it.
Why?
(27:27):
Why should we share ourtestimony?
I wrote down a couple ofreasons.
Our witness and testimony willgrow weaker from disuse.
If we stop talking about whatGod has done for us, we may
start to forget the details andsignificance of those events.
Our witness and testimony is away to show gratitude to God.
(27:52):
Our testimony puts the focus onGod's goodness, his mercy, his
faithfulness, and not onourselves.
And reminds us that God is theauthor of every good thing in
our life.
My third point.
Hearing how God has worked insomeone else's life can be a
(28:16):
powerful source of hope andencouragement, particularly for
those going through similarstruggles.
Number four, our witness andtestimony spreads the gospel.
A personal story is one of themost effective tools for sharing
God's word.
Our personal accounts oftransformation can draw others
(28:37):
to a relationship with Jesus anddiscover his true church.
And finally, number five, ourwitness and testimony
strengthens our own faith.
The act of recalling andspeaking about God's
faithfulness reinforces our ownfaith and reminds us how far we
(28:57):
have come.
It helps us to clearly see God'shand at work in our life.
And then I came across thisverse that I thought was very
appropriate.
It's in Revelation chapter 12,verse 11.
And they overcame him, himmeaning Satan, and they overcame
(29:19):
him by the blood of the Lamb andby the word of their testimony.
So we can overcome Satan when weshare our testimony.
(29:51):
Elder Brown promised us the sameabout our testimonies.
He says that our testimonieswill enable you to develop
spiritual gifts.
It will help you in yourpersonal ministry and service.
It will be a weapon againstSatan and your adversaries.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
I liked that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
So he's repeating exactly what we hear from John
in the book of Revelation.
Yeah.
Finally, he says this seek it.
It is urgent.
Do you have any bonus quotes?
SPEAKER_02 (30:25):
I did.
The rest of the talk.
No.
Um I had a few.
SPEAKER_03 (30:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Choosing to believe is a wise and powerful way to
use our agency.
SPEAKER_03 (30:42):
I had it is in his nature to bless us.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
I cannot see a better way to use my agency than
in defense of my testimony.
unknown (30:56):
Good.
SPEAKER_03 (30:56):
I had one other one, but you said it earlier, so.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
Well, I can never remember whether you said them
earlier or not.
I have one more.
You may have said it earlier.
I don't know.
I invite you to think about yourpath to a sure witness of Jesus
Christ and his gospel.
Take charge of your testimony.
Use your agency wisely andacknowledge the giver and all
his glorious attributes.
I bear witness that the power iswithin you.
(31:22):
No one can choose for you.
No one can take this gift away.
You can choose to believe.
SPEAKER_03 (31:29):
Choose to believe.
That was my point three.
I didn't use that quote, butthat's what's the well, what
will you do differently?
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
I am going to start by bearing my testimony more,
but I hope someday to be likeElder Brown and bear my
testimony with the kind ofconviction and passion he has.
SPEAKER_03 (31:54):
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (31:55):
I don't know if I ever get there.
Like yeah.
Oh, to be like Elder Brown.
Don't you think everybody wouldlisten in sacrament meeting if
we all preached our, you know,gave our talks with the same
(32:20):
passion that Elder Brown has.
Yeah.
Nobody be sleeping.
SPEAKER_03 (32:29):
Well, I put down that I need to share more.
Of course, we share on thispodcast, but there are
opportunities for me to sharemore of my witness of him and
the blessings he pours out uponme, and I need to do more of
sharing.
(32:49):
Well, thank you for joining uson the Rejoicing in Hope
podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
We pray today's insights help you grow closer to
Christ and strengthen yourfaith.
SPEAKER_03 (32:59):
I bear testimony of the witness I have of this
restored church of Jesus Christ.
I know the Book of Mormon is theWord of God.
I have read it many, many times,and it helps me always to draw
closer to Jesus Christ.
It is companion scripture to theOld and New Testament which also
(33:20):
testify of Jesus Christ.
They all work together.
I know Joseph Smith was calledof God to restore this church.
He was a prophet of God nodifferent than Moses, Elijah,
Abraham, and others.
He saw God the Father and hisSon Jesus Christ.
(33:41):
Today Dallin H.
Oaks is his prophet on the earthtoday.
I testify that obedience to thecommandments of God, because of
our love for him, will allow usto someday return to our
heavenly home.
SPEAKER_02 (33:58):
I have a testimony that I have a heavenly father
that loves me.
I know that Jesus Christ is mySavior.
I know that Joseph Smith was aliving prophet, and through him
Jesus Christ's true church isrestored to the earth.
I know the Book of Mormon is atrue is true scripture and
another testament of JesusChrist.
(34:20):
I know that President DalinateJokes is the living prophet on
the earth today.
I know all these things andmore, and I want to protect this
testimony and grow it and carefor it and share it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
If you enjoyed this episode, follow, review, or
share it with a friend.
Most importantly, keep seekingthe Lord and rejoicing in the
hope he offers.
SPEAKER_02 (34:47):
Next week, we will explore the talk from Sister J.
Annette Dennis, First Counselorin the Relief Society General
President C, cheering each otheron.
SPEAKER_03 (34:59):
See you next time.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.