Marriage Helper LIVE - December 10, 2025 - Relationship Radio: Marriage, Sex, Limerence & Avoiding Divorce

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello, I'm Dr.
Joe Beam, and this beautifulyoung woman here is my lovely
daughter, Kimberly, who is alsoour CEO here at Mary Chopper,
who happens to be drinking froma cup that says Dolly.

SPEAKER_09 (00:12):
Dolly for president.

SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
You may have figured out by now that we are in Middle
Tennessee and we are fans ofDolly Parton.
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_09 (00:21):
Who wouldn't be?
Who wouldn't?
It's great.

SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
That's right.

SPEAKER_09 (00:24):
It's great.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
That's right.
I wish I could live up to thename of that song, Joe Lean.
Why would you want to live up tothe name of Joe Lean?
So it would be Joe who is lean.

SPEAKER_09 (00:35):
She was a husband stealer.
Oh, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 (00:39):
I just want to be the lean Joe of the Spotify at
that point.
Let me start off with somethingquite unusual and very different
than what we normally do.
Because of the fact that a lotof the questions that we have
received over the years aboutmarriage difficulties have
involved sexual difficulties, wehave developed a product that is
just to help a marriage withtheir sexual situation.

(01:01):
Now realize if your marriage isin crisis and you're not having
sex with each other at all, whatI'm about to say may not appeal
to you whatsoever.
But if sex is one of the thingsthat you're arguing about or
having difficulties with in yourmarriage, what I'm about to say
may be of great interest to you.
And if you know a young marriedcouple, for example, that you
want to give a good Christmaspresent to, um, say your grown

(01:25):
children or whatever, you cangive them this product if you
wish, and it will benefit theirmarriage when it comes to sex.
Now, remember that my PhD, mydoctorate degree was earned at
the University of Sydney inAustralia, where I researched
and studied the causes of andcorrelations between marital

(01:45):
satisfaction and sexualsatisfaction.
Uh, twice I've been on NBC'sToday Show talking about sex,
particularly from a Christianviewpoint.
I also taught for eight years inthe psychology department at a
Christian university where Itaught human sexuality.
So let me tell you what thisproduct is and how you can get
it if you wish.
It's actually not availabletoday.

(02:08):
It'll be available next week.
Therefore, if you wanted for aChristmas present, you can go
ahead and get it today.
Now, explain it very quickly andthen we'll move on to doing what
we normally do, which is to takecalls and talk to people about
their difficulties they'rehaving in their marriage.
Now, we're calling this oneSacred Intimacy, and it's 12
videos.

(02:28):
And each uh of the videos isapproximately a half hour,
approximately.
But altogether, all total, thereare seven and a half hours of
videos.
You start in verse in number oneand work all the way through to
number 12.
And in that, I start off withthe very basics, like let me
teach you some thingsanatomically that you probably
don't know about your own bodyor about your spouse's body.

(02:52):
And to go all the way through init several times, I'll say, stop
the video.
Now there's a PDF you download,and we will measure things such
as whether one or both of youmay be sexually inhibited, uh,
sexual compatibility between thetwo of you.
If one of you wants to dosomething sexually that the
other one is hesitant or justflat out doesn't want to do, we

(03:14):
have a profile you can workthrough there to figure out
whether or not it might bebeneficial to try it or
absolutely a disaster if you tryit.
In other words, it's extremelycomprehensive.
We have in the past have soldthis for$399, but as our year-in
special, we're gonna cut that to$199.
But let me give you a specialoffer if you're interested in

(03:36):
buying it for yourself or forsomeone else.
And that's this.
Uh we have a landing page, andthat landing page is not
complete.
But but even though it'sincomplete, you can go ahead and
order this on the landing pageif you will.
If you order this before thelanding page is done, or even
before December 31st, here's acouple of things that you can

(04:00):
get in addition.
One is in January, I'm gonna bedoing a two-hour online seminar.
And people who get this beforethe end of the year, even if you
buy it for somebody else, youcan be in the seminar if you
wish.
In that seminar, I'm gonna betalking about sex, but I'm gonna
be answering questions, uh, allkinds of questions, no
boundaries on the questions thatpeople can ask in that two-hour

(04:22):
seminar.
And the only people that'll beinvited to it are the people who
buy this product before the endof the year.
Now, if you buy it before ourlanding page is complete, which
will be sometime next week,we're gonna put you in a
drawing.
And from all of those who buythis before the landing page is
complete, which might be Mondayor Tuesday of next week, we're

(04:42):
gonna have a drawing, and I'mgonna draw at the computer draw,
actually.
The computer is gonna draw threenames.
And I'm gonna give each of thosethree a 45-minute consulting
session with me personally.
Now, Kimberly can tell you thatwe normally charge, and this is
not the hype, this is what weactually charge, we actually

(05:03):
charge$1,500 for a 45-minutesession with me personally.
But if you're one of those threethat will be drawn by the
computer, you'll get thatabsolutely for free.
Now, that's if you buy theproduct before the landing page
is complete next Monday orTuesday.
Now, we know that severalhundred people watch this live,

(05:24):
but thousands watch it a littlebit later.
And even if you're the thousandsor one of the thousands who will
be watching this later, as longas you can get this done before
the landing page, you will beput into that batch and the
computer will draw three.
And so the price for this,$199.
The bonus, two-hour seminar withme about sex.
Other bonus, if you buy it intime, you'll be put into the

(05:48):
drawing list, and the computerwill pick three people I'll
spend 45 minutes with inconsultation just with you.
Now, the landing page, I guesswe can put it up in the in the
notes there, right?
Uh Jason, I almost called himJared.
Can you everyone does?
You can go to he's going to puta BTS link up there that you can

(06:08):
go to.
I'm going to give you a longerlink.
Your dot marriagehelper.comslash sacred dash intimacy.
That's your.marriagehelper.comslash sacred dash intimacy.
Now that's the long version, oryou can look there in the notes
and there's the short version,the bit.ly version.
But if you buy now, then we'regoing to help you in the ways

(06:32):
that I just said.
Now, if this is not the productfor you, don't worry about it.
But if it is, now's the time todo it while it's half off and
gets all these benefits with it.
Well, Kimberly, there's myChristmas commercial.

SPEAKER_09 (06:46):
I love it.
It's hard to know who to trustabout sex and what a great
solution or resource, even tosay, to know that you can go to
someone who has a Christianbackground, Christian beliefs,
and also can help with your sexlife.
And that's about all I'm goingto say about it, because it's my

(07:06):
dad.
So we can just move right along.

SPEAKER_01 (07:12):
We will say this.
When I was teaching humansexuality at Lipscomb
University, which is a Christianuniversity of some renown,
Kimberly was in the first humansexuality class I taught.
And as we were discussing aparticular aspect of the female
anatomy, one of the other youngladies in the class looked at
Kimberly and said, Is this likefreaking you out?

SPEAKER_09 (07:34):
To which Kimberly replied, No, at my house, this
is dinner conversation.

SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
We've always taught our children openly.

SPEAKER_09 (07:44):
Yes.
Well, and it was even more sowhen you were going through your
PhD program because you weresharing about things you were
learning and you would bringyour friends.

SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
I would bring my friends.
She'd bring her friends over toask me questions about sex.
All right, let's get to a call.

SPEAKER_09 (07:58):
Sounds great.
Let's go to Marie fromSacramento.
Marie, how can we help youtoday?

SPEAKER_08 (08:04):
Hi, yes.
Good morning.
Well, it's morning here inSacramento.
I'm not sure what the time iswhere you guys are.

SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
It's slightly afternoon.
How may we help you?

SPEAKER_08 (08:13):
Okay.
Yes, I just have a question inregards to where I should What I
can now is my husband and I,we've been married for 16 years,
known each other for 20.
Um he wants to file for adivorce.
He said that about two weeksago.
Um we've done a lot of thingstogether, which it was kind of a

(08:36):
rocky start to begin with.
It was kind of one of thosewhere I think he was forced to
get married.
I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
What does that mean?

SPEAKER_08 (08:42):
He did explain because his background of
Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Are you saying that you slept together and therefore
he felt he should marry you?

SPEAKER_08 (08:54):
Uh he had to marry me because I would not be
accepted into the family.

SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Okay, I'm I'm not understanding.

SPEAKER_08 (09:05):
Well, we got married.
Um we did like each other, wewere dating, we were best
friends in the beginning, and itstarted off rocky because I this
was my second marriage.
Didn't want to get married tohim.
But because we were best friendsand I was falling for him, I did
get married with him.

(09:27):
Really rocky church.
Um we did a lot of things forchurch, everything was based
around it.
Um the divorce just came upabout two, three weeks ago
because it always came up atevery argument because he has
trauma and he had learned thatthe reason why he married me is
because he was looking for amother's love.

SPEAKER_09 (09:51):
Okay.
So he has not been marriedbefore, you have been married
before, but he's the one who'sbeen bringing divorce and every
argument for 16 years.

SPEAKER_08 (10:00):
Both of us because I I see it as if you're not happy,
I obviously can't make youhappy.
I obviously can't have kids withyou because I have my own kids
in your marriage.
And all of that was made out.
He understood it.
I did get pregnantly lost.

(10:21):
It's just been really hard whereI'm just really training.
However, I don't know where whatto do because of the situation
of him saying that he's fightingfor divorce that it was two,
three weeks ago, and haven'theard anything about it.
We are living roommate now,separate rooms.
We do conversate here and therejust about dinner.

(10:49):
We used to go to movies everyThursday that have talked as of
last week because he doesn'twant to do things with me
anymore.

SPEAKER_09 (10:56):
Why does he want to divorce?

SPEAKER_08 (11:00):
Because he started understanding that he did not
really understand himself, hedidn't know his ide his own
identity.
I don't know, it's a whole lotof mixed up trauma, everything
from everything he's learningabout being a man, how he can't
take care of me because that'swhat God says, and he's supposed

(11:22):
to be the provider.
But all of this, we already knewthis in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
So where are this coming from?
If he's saying this now, who'sputting this in his head?

SPEAKER_08 (11:32):
You know what, and that's a great question that I
have because I don't even knowwho well I do kind of in a
sense.
I know he spoke with his parentsand told them that he's filing
for a divorce.
And I know his mom neveraccepted me.

SPEAKER_09 (11:48):
It seems like there's something you're not
telling us.
Like I feel like you're dancingaround it, and that's fine if
you don't want to share it on onthe on the call, but it seems
like you're dancing aroundsomething that would help us
understand all of this.

SPEAKER_08 (12:04):
Okay, I don't really know.
I I really don't know what tosay.
I just know my husband told methat this is why he feels that
we should get a divorce, isbecause he just never really
loved me.
I I really don't know.
I don't know where to go from.
We've gone to marriageaccounting, we've done meetings

(12:29):
with pastors, like none of thathas ever helped.
It just made it seem like thefault was on him.
Like he the judgment was on him.
And I don't think that was fair.

SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Do you want to save this marriage?

SPEAKER_08 (12:44):
I do.
I want to save the marriagebecause what we had prior to
being married was awesome.
Like everything was amazing.
We did everything.
We had so much fun.
We got married, we dideverything, and next thing you
know, he just feels that.

SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
So you're trying to recapture something that
occurred more than 16 years ago,is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_08 (13:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (13:10):
You also said you didn't want to get married 16
years ago.

SPEAKER_08 (13:15):
And that the reason you didn't want to Go ahead, I'm
sorry.

SPEAKER_09 (13:19):
And the reason you did was so that you would be
accepted into his family home byhis parents, but now you're
saying his parents are the oneswho want who are encouraging him
to get a divorce.

SPEAKER_08 (13:30):
In the beginning, his We got married, and I told
him, Yes, that's correct,because if you're gonna live in
my household, if we're gonnasleep together, I do agree with
that because I don't agree withhaving intimacy, you know,
intimacy out of wedlock.
I grew up as a Catholic andthat's how I that's I strongly
stand by it.
So I did that and I startedcalling for him, I started doing

(13:53):
things, we started gettingalong.
We do have like a we do have arocky marriage.
It's just Rocky why I open upwhat's Rocky because he just
doesn't know how he does I don'twant to say he doesn't want know
how to communicate, he justfeels like he doesn't know how
to talk to me.

SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
Okay, so you're open and transparent with him, but
he's not open and transparentwith you.
Is that because he feels thatyou're judgmental or that you
don't accept him as he is, orthat you would react negatively
if he told you what he really fthought or felt?

SPEAKER_08 (14:25):
I think it's more of because I try to explain to him
that those are all negativefeedbacks.
Why don't we just focus on whatwe want?
Wait, what?
Versus what anybody else tellsyou.

SPEAKER_09 (14:34):
Oh, that okay, what other people are saying to him
about your relationship arenegative.
Okay, you're trying to protectthe okay, got that makes sense.
Is he upset?
You you mentioned earlier, yousaid it in passing, you have
kids.
Did he want to have kids withyou?
He did.
Is that a big issue?

SPEAKER_08 (14:56):
It had been until he got over it, I suppose, three
years ago.

SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
Okay, so what I'm hearing is this that when he
tells you what other people say,do you think there's a
possibility that he's quotingthem or referring to them
because of the fact that that'sa safer way, emotionally
speaking, for him to tell youwhat he actually feels?
And that when you respond byexplaining it away, don't listen
to them, etc., that if he indeedis disguising what he really

(15:26):
feels by using them to explainit, then you're dismissing what
he feels.
You think that's a possibility?

SPEAKER_08 (15:34):
I mean, it could be.
I I he has I've just been reallyconfused right now.
There's so much going on.

SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
Mm-hmm.
Are you the dominant person inthe relationship?

SPEAKER_08 (15:44):
Uh no, we kind of both are.

SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
But he's not open and transparent at all.

SPEAKER_08 (15:52):
He can be, but not to an extent.

SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Okay.
And so what it sounds like isthat he's afraid to tell you
what he really thinks or feels.
What's he afraid of?

SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Who's he afraid of?

SPEAKER_08 (16:09):
Well, I just know that his childhood it was abuse,
so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (16:14):
Is he afraid of you?

SPEAKER_08 (16:17):
I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Is he afraid of your is he afraid of your judgment?
Your your criticism?

SPEAKER_08 (16:24):
I that I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
Has he ever said that or indicated that in any
fashion?

SPEAKER_08 (16:33):
Um he's brought it up in the past where if he
expressed himself and I amguilty of that, where I try to
be more of a positive, I didn'tknow how to actually express
because we both come fromtrauma, childhood trauma.
And I didn't not know how toexpress that, but I just wanted
to be more on the positive sideversus the negative, because he

(16:53):
can be negative.

SPEAKER_09 (16:55):
Okay.
Just because you both come fromtraumatic backgrounds doesn't
mean that you have to stay stuckin that controlling your life.
And so I believe, Marie, thebest thing that that you have to
do, hopefully him as well, butthe best thing you have to do is
forge a way forward in how youcan figure out how to stop doing

(17:18):
the things that are pushing himaway and start doing the things
to pull him back and not let thetrauma be an excuse.
Now, trauma is real, it has tobe dealt with, but it kind of
sounds like it hasn't been, ithasn't been dealt with.
And instead of trying toactually deal with some of those
things, it's been pushed downand said, hey, let's just, let's

(17:40):
just be happy and optimistic andnot think about those things.
And at some point, it it's notnecessarily that you have to
live in that, live in that pastand allow it to can allow it to
just dominate what's happening,but by not dealing with it,
you're allowing it to dominateand control what's happening.
And so, regardless of what'shappened in the past, it's about

(18:01):
what do you do now?
It sounds to me like yourhusband is scared of you in some
way, scared to be open, scaredto be transparent, scared to be
honest.
I wonder, I just have to wonderif the fact that he entered into
the relationship wanting kidsand you said, I already had my

(18:23):
own, like how that has affectedhim, how that's affected him to
feel like there's even thatlevel of intimacy he can't get
to with you.
And a loss of a dream thatperhaps he's even had.
I think there's hurt that'shappened over the years that
hasn't been properly addressed.
And so at this point, you saidhe's wanted a divorce.

(18:44):
You said you've gone to marriagecounseling and it hasn't
necessarily worked.
Do you think he would be willingto do one more thing with you to
try and make it work?

SPEAKER_08 (18:55):
He doesn't want to do any.
We we had we had talked about itrecently in October.
He agreed to it, but comeNovember, we just came back from
a cruise, we had a great time.
He said he doesn't want to docounseling, he doesn't want to
do any of those classes, anytutorials, nothing, because he
feels like everyone's gonnajudge him.

SPEAKER_04 (19:15):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
Because he feels judged.
Here's a suggestion, if I may.
You say that whenever he sayswhatever those he it sounds to
me that he's actually disguisinghis own emotions, his own
feelings by quoting otherpeople, and you say, Don't
listen to them, don't listen tothem, but he's telling you what
he really feels, but it makes iteasier for him to use them as

(19:37):
the uh conveyance for that.
And then you say, Well, but Itry to stay positive.
He says these negative things,and I stay positive.
That's basically a denial ofwhat you're doing.
If if a person were to say, forexample, I hurt, and you say,
Oh, no, no, don't hurt.
We have some good things goingfor us, that person feels
rejected.
And so I'm not trying to makeyou a villain by any shape,

(19:58):
fashion, or form, but I'mrecommending this.
Please, whenever he does open upwith you, when he finally says
something, even if he appears tobe quoting whoever, that you
say, help me understand how youfeel about that.
And do not reply.
Don't say that's bad.
Don't say that's good.
Don't say that's anything.
Just say, help me understandmore.

(20:19):
And listen.
Genuinely, deeply listen.
Now, uh, Kimberly, if they wereif he were decided to come to
our workshop, he certainlywouldn't feel ridiculed by our
people.
No, not at all.
And so we'd love for you toconsider that, if you will.
I'm not trying to make a salehere, but I'm telling you, we
have a way to help you figurethis out.
And and how would they contactus to find out about them?

(20:42):
Yeah, they can I don't know whatthe new I don't know what the
new link is now.

SPEAKER_09 (20:48):
Uh yes.
So we have something we'll putin the chat.
It's a link that you can,there's some questions that you
can answer so that we can makesure you get to the right person
and then you can book a call tospeak with someone on our team.

SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yeah, at least go look at that, if you will,
because I think we can reallyhelp you here.
But even though you don't meanto and intend to, I think you're
shutting this guy down.
And and he's not being open andhonest enough to tell you that.
That's what I think is going on.

SPEAKER_09 (21:12):
Mm-hmm.
I agree.
But we do believe that there ishope, Marie, and we would love
to help in every way that wecan.

SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Mm-hmm.
Okay, then we need to go toCassidy in Texas.

SPEAKER_09 (21:24):
Let's go to Cassidy in Texas.
How can we help you today,Cassidy?

SPEAKER_07 (21:30):
Oh, yes.
I was wondering how to help makethe least amount of damage to
your children and to your familyunit when you are the standing
spouse and uh you're on the M insmart contact, but uh you keep
getting past it kind of seeminglike reconciliation and you
don't know why, but there'srandom outbursts from the
spouse, and it's just it's it'snot helping.

(21:50):
And it it worries so much, like,for example, the one, the
14-year-old child won't be ableto play with the younger two
children the PlayStation they'regetting for Christmas.
So um I do coach and I'mthankful for coaching.
You guys have done a great jobin the program since November of
last year, and uh it's helped mea lot.
But this this is one of those uhstanding pushes.

(22:10):
I've done a few, right?
But this one is is it's moredifficult.
And so I'm trying to understand,you know, what are the right
standing pushes and how tocreate the least amount of
damage, no matter you know whatthe outcome is.
Obviously, your standing, so youwant it to work, but but
sometimes maybe it's not meantto.
I don't know with that yet.
But anyway, yeah, thank you allfor the work you do.

SPEAKER_09 (22:27):
Thank you, Cassidy.
Really appreciate that.
So, really, your question iswhen your husband is doing
things that are making thingsworse, but you are intentionally
they're gonna be pushes, butthey're standing, they're
they're what we call thosepushes, the essential pushes,
the necessary pushes that areneeded.
Um, how do you handle it when itjust creates further chaos and

(22:50):
havoc with your with yourhusband?
Is that right?

SPEAKER_07 (22:54):
Yes, I think that's a good good way to put it too,
and create the least amount ofdamage to anybody.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (22:58):
Yeah, and he's taking it out on the kids.

unknown (23:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (23:01):
How old are your kids, Cassidy?

SPEAKER_07 (23:04):
Fourteen, nine, and six.

SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Is the fourteenth uh you're all a male?

SPEAKER_08 (23:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Okay.
And you feel that your husband'spunishing him.

SPEAKER_08 (23:17):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
And the children, are you guys still living
together?

SPEAKER_07 (23:22):
We had a separation for a bit, um, not by my choice,
but also it was one that uh weagreed neutral for a little bit
because he's a little toohot-headed and afraid he would
get physical.
So in that situation, he neededto be uh make sure he would not
be able to read, you know, to apoint he can verbal's one thing,
physical's a whole new level.
So you need to excuse yourselfbecause you have a mental uh

(23:44):
ability to not be physical.

SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
So where does he live now?

SPEAKER_07 (23:48):
Where do you get we've uh so that was uh been the
problem since November of 24 andJuly of 25?
We had uh uh like a month wherewe just we weren't together
much.
So he's there now.

SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
He's living there now.
Yeah, so since September we'reokay, and you're saying that
that there's a a a PlayStationcoming, and he's saying that the
14-year-old can't play with it,but the younger kids can.

SPEAKER_07 (24:13):
Why uh not really any good reason, but I I've also
accepted his point of view, youknow, and and made it clear that
that I see where he's comingfrom, but I want to create the
least amount of damage toanybody.
He feels like the 14-year-oldhas created damage to him
because he got him a one we gothim a one-wheel last year and a
piano, and he hasn't used theone will or the piano much, and

(24:34):
so he feels like it's it'salmost like his way of
retaliation to the 14-year-old,but it's a 14-year-old.
And I don't want alienation ordamage in the family, you know.
So I'm trying to work throughthat, and I've said that very
clearly, very nicely, very muchworked with it on my with my
coach, you know, those kind ofthings.

SPEAKER_01 (24:49):
So right now, what you're wanting to do is protect
the emotions of the 14-year-old.
Yes.
Okay.
And you're asking us what's thebest way to do that?
Is that the question?
I understand.

SPEAKER_07 (25:00):
Yes.
Yes, I think at the heart at theend of the day, that is the
question.
There's there's there's abigger, you know, we had to word
it such a way, but yeah.
And if that is that.

SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
Does the 14-year-old understand that this is going to
occur?

SPEAKER_07 (25:11):
No, I have not said anything.
My coach said he would see howit plays out.
Um, and so I I thought aboutsaying something to the
14-year-olds, but I but Ihaven't yet, because I that is
another case of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
How do you believe that the 14-year-old is going to
react emotionally?

SPEAKER_07 (25:27):
He would I mean who he would feel discluded.
He would feel alienated.
I mean, I think it would be.

SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
Okay, so what you really want is for your husband
to do something where thatindeed the boy would focus on
the things he's supposed to do,but at the same time not feel
left out.
Is that correct?

SPEAKER_07 (25:43):
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Like at first it was the thing that's if you say
something to your husband aboutthat, how's he going to react?

SPEAKER_07 (25:51):
I have, and he's just like, I'm firm on this.
He's not gonna play it.

SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
Okay.
And are you going to acceptthat?

SPEAKER_07 (25:59):
Well, and that's where I'm having a hard time
trying to figure out the bestway to stand because I do think
it's unacceptable.

SPEAKER_01 (26:06):
So that's where I'm having to.
Do you think it's gonna havelong-term effect or damage on
the board and that I've wentover with my coach, and I'm
trying to go with no, becausethere's bigger things, right?

SPEAKER_07 (26:19):
Uh but if I may ask, who's your coach?

SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
We we have great coaches.
Who's your coach?

SPEAKER_07 (26:23):
You well, actually, I've coached with Nathan.
I've coached with uh I'vecoached with everybody,
actually.
Uh they're great.
My current coach is Benny.
I think he's absolutely more ofa fit for me, a little bit
older, and so I think a littlemore um not saying nobody else,
they're great.
They're all great.
So I do particularly coaches.

SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
And so, Kimberly, what I hear is this.
She doesn't want to cause anymore difficulty with the husband
if she can help it.
Yet at the same time, she feelsthat the boy's gonna be
mistreated by this.
She's torn between whether it'sgonna be a major or a minor
effect on the boy.
But if I'm hearing it correctly,she's leaning toward the major.

SPEAKER_09 (27:01):
But she doesn't want to admit it.

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
So, what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_09 (27:06):
I mean, they're in, they're living together, right?
So we have to take into accountwhat their current marriage
situation is.
So it seems like they're on theroad to reconciliation to in to
some extent.
Um, I would try and sit down andand speak with him and say, hey,
let me uh and and and it and itseems like there is a reason

(27:26):
that her it's not that he's justpure, but she also indicated
that he's vindictive.
Sure.
So helping him try to understandthat.
This is a hard one because asparents, you have to be, you
need to be unified as much aspossible.
When you're reconciling a onewith the ways you build trust
together is by doing things likethis in unity.

(27:47):
I think they have to get onboard with what this is going to
look like as a unified front.

SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
I concur.
Has Vinny uh talked to you aboutthe uh oh compromise circle?

SPEAKER_07 (28:02):
Uh I no, I don't believe.
I would love to, he may have,and I didn't get the memo that's
a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Ask Vinny.
Ask Vinny to because we don'thave time here.
But we have a thing that that ispowerful about how to
compromise, where each personfeels that they got what they
wanted.
And Vinny can help teach youthat.
Now, typically we don't have ourcoaches teach.
Have you and your husband by anychance been through our
workshop?

SPEAKER_07 (28:28):
I've been through the workshop.
Um, he has not, he refuses toacknowledge um, even when he
left, he refuses to say that youknow, oh, there's a problem, but
I'm just coming back.

SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
So when you went to the workshop, you actually were
exposed to the to the compromisecircle.
Okay, and so I'm gonna lookthrough all my workshops.
Okay, look at that, and then getthey need to help you understand
it again, and then try that withyour husband.
I think if there's anypossibility of doing it, it's
gonna be with that compromisecircle.
And and that's it's extremelypowerful.
You are exposed to it in theworkshop.

(29:00):
You they need to help youremember it again.
And I think if you can get himto participate in that, and it's
where he won't lose, but youwon't lose either, that you can
find a solution to this.
Okay.

SPEAKER_07 (29:11):
Okay.
Compromise circle, and that's inthe workshop materials.
Is there any other place, Vinnyand workshop materials, any
other place that is or that Ican uh really you know hone in
and try to make or understandand implement?

SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Believe it or not, we actually talk about it more
than uh Goblin does.
So, yes, in our materials whereyou're gonna find it, and Vinny
can help you, okay?
He can do it.

SPEAKER_07 (29:32):
Okay.
And then look through theworkshop.
Got it.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Cassidy.
Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
For those that are not aware, if you come to the
workshop, be the solo workshopor the couples workshop, we use
some material by John Gottman,who is a relationship guru.
Most of our workshop is based onour material.
But we also use some material byGottman and some material by
Sternberg, because those arebrilliant men.
Uh, not just the fact thatthey're men, they're brilliant

(30:00):
people who study a lot aboutrelationships and love and those
kinds of things.
And so we insert some of theirmaterial in our workshop.
Um, and again, most of thematerial is ours, but we do
that.
And if you have troublecompromising in the sense of,
oh, well, if we compromise,somebody loses.
If you come to the workshop, andwe hope you come through as a
couple, because that's the bestversion of the workshop.

(30:22):
And we hope that you uh you cando it online if you need to do
that, because we have peoplefrom all over the world do the
online workshop.
And if you can come to Natural,I think that's even better for
you.
The workshop online is great.
Uh, the workshop in Natural is alittle bit better because of the
fact that you get to interactwith us personally.
We're here, and we would loveyou to do that.

(30:43):
But that's where you can learnhow to do a compromise system
that deals with nearlyeverything so that you both come
out feeling that, hey, I Ididn't lose, that we got
something here that worked forboth of us.
And if you want to know moreabout that, tell me again,
Jason.
I'm sorry.
You go to marriagehelper.comslash apply.

(31:05):
Okay, marriagehelper.com slashapply.
I'm gonna rest a while.
I'm tired.

SPEAKER_09 (31:11):
Well, it's a perfect time to go to Michael's
motivational minute.
Michael, we'll head over to you.

SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
For years, it's been rumored that in our little town,
they're going to be building oneof my favorite restaurants.
And a few months ago, they beganto till up the ground.
And then a few weeks after that,they laid a foundation.
And a few weeks after that, theybegan to build out the framework
of studs of the the inside andthe outside of the building.
But it was really only this weekwhen they began to put some

(31:42):
tiles on the outside, when theybegan to paint some of the
building a particular color, andyou could see what they were
doing on the inside and theoutside.
And I could say, yes, okay,that's the restaurant that I've
been looking forward to.
Some of you are in differentareas of rebuilding the life
that you've envisioned foryourself.
Some of you've just come to us,and it felt like your life has

(32:05):
been tilled up and the ground'sbeen torn up.
Some of you have been able tolay a strong foundation by
watching our YouTube videos orour podcast, participating in
the live events that we've beenhaving like this.
Some of you have been able tobuild a strong uh framework uh
around your marriage and yourown heart and your own mind and
your own life because ofattending one of our workshops.

(32:28):
We want to encourage you.
The life that you've envisionedfor yourself may not look
exactly where you want it to beright now.
It may not look exactly likethat perfect uh building that
you've been building, but you'reworking the steps, you're
working your pies, you'relearning to control what you can
control.
Uh, you are uh entering into acommunity of people that love

(32:51):
you, that care for you, thatwant the best for you, and that
are here to help you.
That's what Marriage Helper isable to do.
So I want to challenge youtoday.
Maybe take that next step.
Book a workshop, talk to acoach, join one of our community
calls, whatever it is, I want toencourage you, take that next
step as you are building a newfoundation, as you're building a

(33:15):
new framework, as you're workingtowards the life that you
envision for yourself and foryour marriage.
We're here to walk with youevery step of the way.

SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Am I the only person frustrated he didn't say which
restaurant it was?

SPEAKER_09 (33:30):
I know, but you know what?
No free advertising.
They've got to pay us if theywant us to be a sponsor.
I don't even know.
What restaurant would I be soexcited about?
None, because I'm not a chainrestaurant person.

SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
I'm not either, but that was a very good point.
A step at a time, a step at atime.
Brilliant point.
Thank you, sir.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 (33:49):
Well, let's head over to Shannon from Texas and
answer her question.
Shannon, how can we help youtoday?

SPEAKER_05 (33:57):
I just had a question.
Um I think my husband and minehave had an emotional affair a
couple years ago with my sister.
And I just didn't know how tobring that conversation up with
him.
We have had that conversationbefore, but he gets super
defensive and shuts down and umthreatens to leave, and then I
get scared and beg him not tobecause I have fear.

(34:20):
So and I just hope that I'm likeright about it, but I've seen
hundreds of text messagesbecause she's on she was on my
call log and I saw that theywere going back and forth a lot,
but all the messages have beendeleted on both ends.
And uh what were the messagesabout that you saw?

(34:41):
Um so I didn't see the actualmessages, I just saw that they
were communicating because shewas on my phone plan.

SPEAKER_02 (34:48):
And so you're in the case.

SPEAKER_05 (34:50):
I just saw that they were texting a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (34:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (34:53):
Was it around your birthday?
Did they throw a surprise party?
Like was there something that inthat they could have been
talking about that made sense?

SPEAKER_05 (35:02):
No, because this has been going on for like I want to
say like eight years, and I toldthem to stop a long, long time
ago and they didn't.
And so I felt disrespectedbecause I found out that they
they were doing it again and ithappened multiple times where I
would tell them to stop and theywouldn't stop.

SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
So you're talking to your sister.

SPEAKER_05 (35:25):
I haven't I have not talked to my sister AI is quiet.
Um I don't know.
I'm just I'm just I just have alot of fear.
I feel like she I feel like hewill get mad.

SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
If you had a conversation with your sister
where rather than confrontingher, which means people always
get defensive.
If you confront your husband,he's gonna get defensive.
That's what people do.
But rather than confronting her,you just sit down and said, Let
me tell you about a fear I have.
And and the fear I have is thatyou are more involved with my

(36:05):
husband than etc.
How would that conversation go,do you think?

SPEAKER_05 (36:12):
And I also know he I know he was sending her money.
And I found that on ourstatement, and I'm sending me
though he didn't tell me that hewas sending her money.
Um, like sixty bucks, fiftybucks here and there.
And then I asked him, you know,what the text messages were
about, and he just said, Oh,whenever she needs help, I help
her.
She's but she's on drugs, so Idon't know if that has anything

(36:32):
to do with it.
And he's a really he's a reallynice and giving person.

SPEAKER_01 (36:35):
So as far as you know, I don't know if I'm making
as far as you know, it reallymay be he's trying to help her
with her addiction.

SPEAKER_05 (36:44):
I don't I don't know.
But I know that he downloadedSnapchat and um that's her
favorite app, and I I think theywere communicating through that
because I saw on his email umsearch bar that he looked up her
name and the word Snapchat atone point.
I just don't understand whysomebody would want to contact

(37:05):
somebody so much.
If are you and your sisterclose?
No, we're not.

SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
If you actually talk to her, what would happen?

SPEAKER_05 (37:20):
I don't know what she would tell me.
I do know that a long time agowhen this first started
happening, I saw him texting hersaying, Good morning, beautiful,
and she sent a picture ofherself fully clothed to him at
one point, and then I thinkthere was a message about our
relationship.
But I just don't want to makethe wrong decision if nothing

(37:42):
happened.
So I don't know if it's like ainsecurity.

SPEAKER_09 (37:45):
And you actually saw that like an insecurity.

SPEAKER_05 (37:47):
You see him send that you saw that with your
eyes.

SPEAKER_09 (37:51):
We're not gonna ask how you saw it, but we know you
saw it in seconds.

SPEAKER_05 (37:54):
This was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_09 (37:55):
I mean, how how long?
Eight years ago?

SPEAKER_05 (37:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (38:01):
I mean, that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 (38:03):
Are you accusing your husband of having an affair
with your sister?

SPEAKER_05 (38:09):
That's what I think happened.
I think it might have been Ihope that it was not physical,
but I think that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
Is there any missing time?
Like you don't know where he isfor uh an hour or two at a time.

SPEAKER_05 (38:21):
Does she live close?
There would be She does liveclose.
She lives about twenty minutes.
Okay, but is there missing time?
There's been times where he hasgone to his friends at nighttime
a couple of times a week, butand you think he's always done
that, which is I don't know.

(38:44):
I hope not.

SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Okay, here's my suggestion, Shannon.
Rather than confronting him,because confronting always makes
the other person defensive.
It's just what people do.
They get confronted, they getdefensive.
Just be open enough to say, letme tell you how I feel.
I worry about this.
It's it scares me.
And and I have some incidenceshere that seem to f uh uh to

(39:06):
indicate that this is what'shappening, but at the same time,
I'm not accusing you of thatbecause I don't have any
definite proof.
And so I'm asking you, as yourwife who loves you and that you
love me, uh, please give me theassurance I need.
And one of the assurances I needis that you not be communicating
with my sister whatsoever.
Not as a demand, like if you dothat, this is what's gonna

(39:29):
happen.
There may be a time for that,and that time may be coming, but
I'm saying right now it would bemore of, will you do this for
me?
Have no more communication withher because I worry about this.
How do you think he would reactif you do that?

SPEAKER_05 (39:46):
Um, I think that he would I mean he's already he's
already told me that he stoppedcommunication with her.

SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
And has he?

SPEAKER_05 (39:57):
Um, as far as I know, I don't I don't.
No a hundred percent, you know,because I know that there's
there's ways around that on aphone.

SPEAKER_09 (40:04):
So your your issue is you don't trust him.

SPEAKER_05 (40:09):
Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't trust him.
I know one I know one time aboutfive years ago, he did meet up
with her early in the morning toto help her move her storage
building, but he didn't tell methat until after he got home.

SPEAKER_09 (40:21):
I mean that's not great, but that was five years
ago, eight years ago.
What has happened in the pastthree months that you know has
happened?

SPEAKER_05 (40:35):
Um I know that she texted his phone and said, Hey,
uh I know you don't know whothis is, but maybe you can't say
who this is right now.
Insinuating that.
Yeah, she sent she did send hima text and said And the reason
you know she sent that text isfor Did he let you see the text?

(40:59):
No, he did not.
So you're probably I found it onmy own.

SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (41:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
Sounds to me, Shannon, like you're doing
everything you can to makeyourself even more paranoid
about this, you know, sneaking,looking, etc.
Just tell him up front, look,what I need is the ability to
trust you.
And and it may all be me.
It may all be my paranoiabecause you think it's, you
know, that you're you're sayingyou haven't done this.
But what I need is reassurance.

(41:25):
And so I need access to yourphone, I need access to your
emails, etc., etc., just so Ican, and and not forever, maybe
just for the next nine, ten,twelve months, just so I can
have some kind of peace withthis.
But Kennedy, you're gonna haveto be able to figure this trust
thing out because either A, youare very paranoid, or B, he's

(41:46):
really doing it and you'recatching him.
And and the only way to decidewhich one of those two things it
is is to develop a system withwhich he needs to agree.
We call it calculative trust sothat you build a system so that
you can trust him.
And calculative trust needs thatwhere you can see what he is
doing.

(42:07):
You know where the money goes,you know where the time goes,
you know what's on his phone,you know what's in his email,
etc., etc.
And and if you could sit downwithout attacking him, but
telling him up front, this iswhat I need, would you please do
this for me?
And if he agrees, it'll settleeverything.
If he disagrees, then there'smore things to look into.

(42:32):
And and uh I think that at somepoint you need to have a similar
conversation with your sister,not attacking her, but letting
her know what you feel and thatyou don't appreciate that.
And and so rather than sittingin the background and worrying
yourself to death, which isdefinitely not good for you, you
take specific actions.

(42:52):
This is what I need.
Please do this for me.

SPEAKER_09 (42:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:57):
And and then hopefully, hopefully, then he
will open up and and give youthat system of calculative trust
and you can pass this.

SPEAKER_09 (43:05):
Yeah.
Hopefully.
You've got you, but you have tostop assuming.
There's a lot of reminiscing,ruminating on previous things
and assuming current things.
Don't do that.
Just do exactly what Dr.
Joe said.
Ask.
This is what I need, this is howI feel, this is what I need, and

(43:26):
start there.
If that doesn't work, call back.
We'll help you work through planB that will go from there.

SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Okay.
Very quickly before we go to thenext call, and I you may have
some other things we need to doas well.
I'm just reminding you at thetop of the hour, when we first
started this, I mentioned ournew product that is called
Sacred Intimacy, which is aboutsex in marriage.
Now, you may not be ready forthat because of the situation
you're in, but then again, youmay, particularly if you've been

(43:54):
arguing about sex, or you maywant it for a Christmas present,
maybe for your grown children orpeople that you know are having
some sexual difficulties or thatjust want a better sex life.
And if you go to your dotmarychelfort.com slash sacred
dash intimacy.
Or and we're gonna put a BTL uhbitly, a bitly thing, that comes

(44:19):
with a thing here on the screenwhere you can see that, and you
can go to that as well.
But what I've made an offer isthis if you buy before December
31st, you get an invitation to atwo-hour seminar with me, where
we're gonna be talking about sexvery openly and honestly.
Nobody gets invited to thatexcept people who buy this
before December 31st.
But if you buy before we finishputting that web page together,

(44:40):
because if you go to thatlanding page, it's incomplete.
But if you go ahead there andbuy it there, which you can do
right now, anybody who doesthat, we're gonna put into a
queue, the computer's gonnapick, and three different names
it picks.
I'm gonna give personally a45-minute consultation session,
which we normally, and I'm notmaking this up, we normally

(45:02):
charge$1,500 for that 45minutes.
But if you get to pick betweenthose three, you'll get that for
free.
And so go to that site.
It's 12 sessions about sex, allfrom a Christian perspective,
but also helping overcomeinhibitions to be able to have
fun in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_09 (45:23):
Sounds great.
Let's go to our next caller, Patfrom Canada.
Pat, how can we help you today?
Hi there.

SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
Hi Pat.

SPEAKER_06 (45:35):
Hi there.
How can we help you today?
Um So my question is Um A yearago I found out my husband's
been having an affair.
The date it's been about threeyears with him being in his
affair off and on.
Um when I found out about it, DDay was last December from

(45:56):
Christmas.
Um but he told me he was nolonger in the affair.
And I could see that he was hehad been different for both
August of 2024.
Um then you know, we were tryingto repair.
We had gone to couple therapy,individual therapy, we even did
uh retrovise um with theCatholic diocese.

(46:19):
And um at one point I caught himin the den, and I think he was
talking to her on the phone andhe became very scared.
We had gone to on a trip andthen we returned actually in the
plane because he he said hewanted a divorce, and uh since
then he's he's gone back to theuh that was July of this year.

(46:43):
Okay.
So he tried to repair for hehe's moved out.
Um he was here for a whilebecause we have an in-law suite,
but he's moved out and he'sgonna have another town to live.
No, so so my husband used hiswork in order to have this
affair.
Um, so he saying to me monthlythat he'd have these tri so she

(47:07):
she lives six hours away.
Um so he would go and see herfor a couple of days almost
every month from what I was ableto track.
Um it's not in the open thathe's with the fair partner
because he he has not put heraround to her family.

(47:27):
Um the kids have never met her,his family has never met her,
his friends have never met her,but he has a life with her
there, and he he spentThanksgiving with her, um, has
met her family and so my husbandhad a scared um when he turned
51 about four years ago, um, andthe doctor he he was in the

(47:48):
hospital and the doctor said healmost died.
So he had a midlife crisis eventand he changed from that point.
Um I think just a glimmerancefrom everything that I've
observed.
So my question is do I stand isthere anything I can do while
I'm trying to stand for thismarriage and see if this passes

(48:08):
I and I know I've I've heard yousay yes, this will pass, but
it's torturous in the meantime.
Um you know, the holidays arecoming.
What do you recommend?
Um my kids are grown, 26 and 24.
Um my daughter's still home, myson has left.

(48:28):
Um yes, we have kids, but uhonly one of them.

SPEAKER_01 (48:34):
What's the relationship between them and
their dad?

SPEAKER_06 (48:38):
My daughter, um very limited communication.
She's um not happy with him atall.
My son also limited, but he he'she's a little bit um better.
Um they talk on the phone, but Ithink they've invited um his my
son lives with his fiance, sothey've invited his their father

(48:59):
over for Thanksgiving, butthat's it.
Um he has not invited the kidsout for dinner, he has not um
invited them over to his newcondo, very limited interaction,
and I know that's shame andguilt.
Um, and you know, he's rewrittenour history saying we've been
together 30 years and he'srewritten our history saying
he's never loved me.

SPEAKER_01 (49:19):
He's yeah, that's that's very typical.
All right, so he still lives inthe area and the other woman
lives six hours away.
Is that correct?

SPEAKER_06 (49:27):
Yes, so he he from what I've observed, he goes to
see her every other weekend, butwhen he goes, he goes for five
or six days at a time and he'llwork uh at his job from her
place.
Okay, you can work online.

SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
What do you want?
Seriously.

SPEAKER_06 (49:44):
So I grew up Catholic and I I want to stand
for my marriage.
I loved our marriage.
I there was nothing wrong withour marriage.
I had a happy marriage, youknow, and I he's he's just
rewritten everything, and I'mlike, that's not true.
Um my old husband back is what Iwant.

SPEAKER_09 (50:01):
He's 53-ish, 51, 55.

SPEAKER_01 (50:04):
She's 53, is that what you said?

SPEAKER_09 (50:06):
Her husband is.

SPEAKER_06 (50:07):
He's 55 now.

SPEAKER_01 (50:08):
And how old is she?

SPEAKER_06 (50:09):
He's 55.
She's 45.

SPEAKER_01 (50:12):
Okay.
So you want the marriage, he haslittle to nothing to do with you
at this point.

SPEAKER_06 (50:21):
Yes, that's right.
Except he only communicates form m monetary things.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
I see.
And he's been involved with herfor how long?

SPEAKER_06 (50:31):
Um almost three years.
Okay.
Oh, three years.
Three yeah, no, over threeyears, but there was a period
that they were not in contactfor about eight months.
Okay.
Apparently.
I I can't confirm that.

SPEAKER_01 (50:44):
Based on the statistics, and I realize you're
not a statistic, neither is he,neither is she, but based on
statistics, it's extremely rarefor limeries to last more than
36 months.
Uh on the long side, 48 months.
Now, every once in a while, andit's extremely rare.
Every once in a while it may gopast 48 months, but like I said,

(51:05):
that's so rare.
It's called an anomaly.
It's so rare you can't evencount it statistically speaking.
The fact that she lives sixhours away and he's seeing her
sporadically can make it go justa tad longer.
But the fact that there'snothing between them anymore and
he can see them anytime, see heranytime he wishes and be with

(51:26):
her, that actually also speedsit up, meaning that the
limerence doesn't last as longbecause one of the drivers of
limerence is the fear they'renot going to be together.
No, so it's totally up to you.
We can't tell you what to do,it's your decision, it's your
life, and we certainly don'twant you to live in a miserable
situation.
We understand that.
But if you think that the manthat's doing this is still in

(51:49):
there, the good man I mean, theman that who's doing this still
has the good man inside of him.
And if you feel or believe thatthat man is worth rescuing, then
yeah, standing for your marriagecan definitely work out.
That rewritten history, iteventually goes away if he comes
back, if things work out.
The fact that he cut off mostlyall contact with his children,

(52:12):
not a good sign.
It means he's basically left hisold world behind.
And in that he's making a newworld with her.
Could that possibly mean thateven after limerence he might
stay with her?
To be truthful, yes, that doesindicate that possibility.
It's not likely, but it ispossible.

(52:33):
I want to tell you that becausewe want to be real with you.
We want to make sure that wealways tell you the truth no
matter what.
Now, if you want to be able todeal with this and deal with the
frustration, we can help youwith that right now.
And then if, if indeed at somepoint that begins to weaken and
he begins to show someindication back toward you

(52:54):
again, we also can step in anddo something very powerfully
then.
But if you really want to dealwith this, and forgive me for
sounding like a commercial, butI I know what that thing feels
like.
And and I hate that anybodyexperiences.
I would hope that you wouldcontact us and consider the
possibility of coming to one ofour solo spouse workshops, which

(53:15):
you can do online right therefrom where you live in Canada,
and and don't have to come allthe way down here.
And in that solo spouseworkshop, it'll be all kinds of
people in the same situationthat you're in, which will give
you a community, people whounderstand, people who relate,
and and often people developfriendships right there that

(53:36):
become very powerful.
So we can teach you a whole lotof good information that'll help
you.
Now, would it automatically makethe pain go away?
No.
But it'll make you so muchstronger, so much more able to
handle this and give you so muchmore hope about what can happen
in the future.
And so again, that forgive me ifI sound like a commercial, I

(54:00):
don't mean to.
But if you go to marriagehelper.com slash apply, you can
just fill out a form there.
And if we believe that there issomething we can do from you for
you, then then we'll makecontact with you about that.
But it's your decision.
No.
If the pain that you're feelingright now is mostly because of

(54:20):
the holidays, then you might befeeling better after the
holidays.
But I can't guarantee that.
The only thing I can do or thatwe can do to help you is to
offer you the solo spouseworkshop at this point.
Emily, am I overstating that?

SPEAKER_09 (54:35):
No, I don't think you're overstating that at all.
When it's I mean, the questionis, what do I do?
And when everything feels likeit's falling apart and I don't
know what to do.
And even worse, you've triedother things.
You've done counseling together,you've done it separately,
you've done a different marriageintensive, and at this point you
feel like you're at the end ofthe rope and that nothing has

(54:56):
worked.
And that's a really hard placeto be, especially at Christmas.
Especially knowing that whenJanuary turns around or comes
around, that's when we seedivorce filings pile up and all
of the things.
But there is still hope.
We believe that, Pat and all ofyou who have had questions about
this, and it really comes downto doing things differently,

(55:20):
having a different focus, havinga different set of goals that
you're working on, doing thethings that are going to build
the marriage, that are going topull your spouse back, stopping
doing the things that are goingto push your spouse away.
And right now, especially forthose of you like Pat who are in
a situation where there's justvery limited to no contact,
there is still things that youneed to do for your own mental

(55:44):
sanity.
We were speaking with one of ourteam members who lives in South
Africa.
I actually had never met himuntil earlier this week.
And we were on a call.
And before we hopped off, Isaid, I just have to introduce
myself.
And he introduced himself to me.
And he said, You have to knowthat even though Marriage

(56:05):
Helper, or my marriage has notyet been saved yet, that
marriage helper saved my lifebecause of the change it made in
him.
And that is the powerful thingthat we see through our solo
path, through our solo spouseprogram that we call it.
We can really intently and uhintimately is not the right

(56:30):
word, but like one-on-one,personally work with you to make
sure that you are following theseven steps that we have, the
seven steps of how to save amarriage, starting with calming
down, going to getting clarity,stopping your pushes, starting
your pulls, forgiveness,reconciliation, rebuilding
trust, igniting passion andintimacy, and then creating your
dream life together.

(56:51):
We have a path for that wholething.
And so we we include a lot ofthe we include the whole the
whole cycle.
Whereas other programs orthings, while many of them have
good attributes, they do part ofit, like a small part of it, and
it keeps people stuck.
And then they lose hope.
We don't want you to lose hope.

(57:11):
We want to infuse you with hope.
And so anything that we can do,anything we can do, we know how
to help you.
And so we would love to help youin the way that we best know how
to help you.
You can go tomarithelper.com/slash apply.

SPEAKER_01 (57:26):
And if you do one of our online workshops, you may
meet some of our South Africanteam members because they often
are involved in our onlineworkshops.
Um For sure.
Uh Kimberly and I uh don'talways get to meet the people
that work with us from othercountries.
We, I mean, they go through ascreening process, they have to
know what they're doing to workwith us, those kinds of things.
But but because of ourpositions, we don't always meet

(57:49):
every person.
And so I'm glad you got to meethim.
I finally got to meet him abouta month ago.
It was cool.
He's great.
And I got to meet two otherSouth Africans in that same
thing a couple of months ago.
It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_09 (58:00):
I love it.
Well, Pat, we will keep you inour prayers and we hope we can
help you in every way possible.
Joe, I'd like to take anothercaller.
I'd like to go to Matthew fromOhio.

SPEAKER_03 (58:11):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (58:12):
Matthew, how can we help you today?

SPEAKER_03 (58:15):
Hi, thank you for taking my call.
Um, I appreciate it.
I know we're kind of butting upat the end of the time.
Um so for for me, I have been astanding spouse um since July
when when she told me she wanteda divorce.
Um and I didn't blame her forfor wanting a divorce.
I had unfortunately kind ofturned into somebody that I
wasn't proud of and I wasdiagnosed with major depression.

(58:38):
And you know, if I weren't her,she was I would have uh divorced
that person too.
So like I gave her a lot ofgrace and love for that.
Um now, so when she told me shewanted a divorce, she was having
an emotional affair withsomebody.
Um and I've been standing forour marriage for the last, you
know, six months.
Um and she did tell me that shewanted to try us again.

(58:59):
Um and she didn't tell me untilI asked her directly that, you
know, the status of theirrelationship and she was uh she
had just stopped talking to himbecause he stopped responding to
her.
Um and she was, you know,sending him gifts that she made
just this past like two, threeweeks.
Um kind of felt like I was beingleft a second option.
And also she told me that, youknow, she did say that she was

(59:21):
in love with him and that theythey were physical, they did
have sex.
Um which that part hurt reallybad because um sex has been an
issue for us for for fifteenyears.
We've been together for fifteenyears.
Um she was a you know, God blessher, a a rape survivor from when
she was young.
She has complex PCSD about it.

(59:42):
Um and so we we primarily havebeen in a sexless marriage for
for fifteen years, having sexless than ten times a year, and
it was always hard for her togive that part of herself away,
and I was always understandingand um patient and supportive,
and I never pressured her, and Idon't regret anything.

(01:00:02):
But it just it Thank you.
But it it just it hurt extremelybad for her to say for all those
years it's hard for her to givethat part of herself away and
then to go give it away tosomebody else.
Um and so now we've kind ofwe've kind of vacillated, we've
flip-flopped.
I've been standing and you know,I even told her I was standing.
Um and now she's saying that shewants to try again.

(01:00:25):
She doesn't want we have a twoyear old and a four year old.
She doesn't want the kids tohave separate holidays, and now
that she disclosed that she, youknow, gave her heart and body to
another man.
Now I have vacillated and I'mthinking, I don't know if this
is what I want.
I want somebody I'm a big loveas a choice guy, and you didn't
choose me.
You didn't choose us.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:46):
May I suggest something to you, Matthew?
May I?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:49):
Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:50):
When you were in depression, you were a different
person.
Right?
When she was in limerence, she'sa different person.
That's not who she is.
Limerence is just as powerful ormore powerful than depression
and changing a person'sthoughts, emotions, and
everything else.

(01:01:11):
So the woman you're in lovewith, that core woman didn't
give herself to that guy.
The woman in limerence did.
And if you if you want her tohave grace toward you for when
you were in depression and noware out, give grace to her as
she was in limerence and now iscoming out.
Does that make any sensewhatsoever?

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:33):
It it does.
It does.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:36):
Does it help?
Does it help or does it justmake you mad?

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:42):
I mean it it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't make me
mad.
I I guess it almost just like Idon't know.
It ju it it does hurt.
Um and I know there's I knowthere's I'm having a separation
between logic and emotions,right?
Like logically, I know that thather you know being in Librance
absolutely throws all of herbrain chemicals off.
And it didn't help too thatshe's been on antidepressants

(01:02:03):
for the last six years, and thenright before she started talking
to this guy, she decided to coldturkey them.
And then this guy re-entered ourlives.
Um so like of course, serotoninbombed out, he became into the
dopamine when you know we werewe were already going through a
hard season, not just with mydepression, but our our kid has
special needs, and that's verychallenging.

(01:02:24):
So we haven't we've been morelike roommates because of you
know the both the depression anduh our son with special needs,
we haven't been connecting.
Um so they just uh I I I knowlogically what you're saying is
right, Dr.
Beam.
It's just hard for me toemotionally accept it if that
makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:40):
Yeah, but you want her to emotionally accept that
you were in depression.
You want her to emotionallyaccept that you changed.
Are you are you asking her to domore for you than you're willing
to do for her, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:54):
No, never.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:56):
Um and it's you sound like a really good guy.
You sound like a really goodguy.
I like this guy already.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:06):
I know, I do too.
Matthew, we want to help.
We love you so much.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:09):
We've all we've already decided we like you.
I I love you guys much more.
I and I will say, actually, if Imean I know we're on a live call
for people, and I'm not a I'mnot a therapist.
I will say that the working thepies helped my depression more
than any therapy did.
So totally unrelated.
Um take that for what you will.
But um, I'm grateful for youguys because I found you right

(01:03:30):
when I needed you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:03:32):
Um that's amazing to hear.
We were I forget where we wereat.
Well, what I'm hoping I I have Ihave a question for you.
So did I I want to make sure Iheard you right when you said
she is willing to work on it nowbecause you flip-flopped, right?
You were standing, now she'swanting to work, and you're the
one vacillating.
Okay, you said love is a choiceand she didn't choose you, but
she is choosing you.

(01:03:52):
She's choosing you now.
Yes, and right now is whatmatters.
So what are your next steps,Matthew?

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:02):
Um right now I'm I'm trying to decide what my if my
next step is if that's what Iwant, because it's hard for me
to then grasp, and I I knowwe've talked about trust and
calculative trust.
It's hard for me to trust thatif we go through another hard
season, how do I know that sheshe won't won't choose me again?
Like she can choose me whentimes are hard, but if we go

(01:04:22):
through another hard season,which all marriages do, how do I
know she's not gonna vacillateand go or not or go and limit
somebody else and everyrelationship chosen?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:32):
Every relationship is a risk.
Every single risk.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what are you gonna do,Matthew?
We're gonna make a choice basedon your logic and hope your
emotions catch up, or make achoice based on your emotions
and later hate that you did.
Which is what you'll do.
I'll predict that for you rightnow.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:52):
So, like if I if I make an a cho a choice based on
my emotions, which right now myemotions are telling me I don't
know what I want.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:59):
If you decide I'm not gonna do this because I'm
hurt, I'll guarantee you thatthat within two years, maybe
within a year, you'll be callingme back saying, Why didn't you
tell me?
Because you'll regret it, myfriend.
You you know who this woman isinside.
And you know that the goodwoman's still in there, right?

(01:05:21):
Yeah.
Okay, if if and and don't justsay that because I'm saying it.
Do you really believe that?

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:27):
I I have I've actually even used your words of
um I know when when her and Ihave have had talks and like
been had hard to hear, I've toldher that, you know, she's a good
person that that did a bad did abad thing.
But I also said I'm a goodperson and I've also done a bad
thing.
So, you know, both of us takingaccountability.

(01:05:47):
So I do believe, yes, she is agood person.

SPEAKER_09 (01:05:50):
You have Matthew, Matthew, you have every single
thing you need to get to savethis marriage and it be better
than ever before.
Everything, everything you'resaying, the how you've reacted,
how you're acting now, the waylike your thought process.
This is so salvageable.
This is so salvageable.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:10):
It is, it is 100% salvageable.
And like I know probably mecalling into a marriage helper
radio shows that like it I Iwant to save it, but like part
of me is just you know, now withthe with the issues of like you
know sex and you know her givingherself away.
And I I get it againstdelimerence and everything.
It sucks.
It's terrible.
And we even I hate it happens.
We even had a conversation wherelike she she said like she

(01:06:32):
doesn't want to be responsiblefor you know my my sexual
fulfillment, which also hurts.
And she said that she wouldrather me just go out and find
it uh outside of our marriage,which I don't want to do.
She doesn't mean that.

SPEAKER_09 (01:06:46):
You're not gonna do that.
You're not gonna do that becausewe already know who you are,
Matthew, and you're not the kindof person who's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:51):
So it's not you, it's not you.
Yeah, yeah.
I tell you what, I will give youI will give you I will give you
the sex, the new sex product,sacred intimacy.
I'm gonna give that to you.
Okay.
It's the kind of thing that youwatch together because it leads
to a lot of conversations.
A lot of conversations.
Okay.
But I'm only gonna give it toyou after you decide you're

(01:07:12):
gonna put this thing backtogether.

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:14):
Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:17):
Are you putting me on the spot, Dr.
Dames?

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:19):
Or not putting you on the spot right now.
Uh it's your decision.
Are you in like are have youdone something with marriage
helper?
Are you uh are you inmembership?
Have you done it?

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:30):
I did membership.
I did the standing spouse uhback in August.

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:35):
In person for the men, men only or the um no, it
was it was online.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:41):
It wasn't it was not men only.

SPEAKER_09 (01:07:42):
Okay, okay, cool.
Um, yeah, I mean, Matthew Wouldshe be willing to come right now
with you to the couplesworkshop?

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:52):
I haven't I haven't told her that I've done anything
marriage helper related.
I see.
Well you wouldn't.
I'm going to, but what?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:01):
Well, first of all, you know, you if if you decide
to do that, and I'm not tryingto make a sale, but if you're
trying to do that, you get asignificant discount.
And and um and if I need to helpyou more, I will.
I want you here.

SPEAKER_09 (01:08:13):
Matthew, we want to see this through.
Matthew, we are in this withyou.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:18):
And if I have to do more to get you here, I'll do
it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:22):
What what are you gonna do, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:24):
Main?
What does that mean?
I'm not gonna say it on the airbecause then I'll get 400 calls.
I got your number.
I've got your number.
It's 330, right?
Your telephone number is 330?
It's 330.
I got it.
You got it.
Uh-huh.
And and I'm not gonna tell youon the radio or I mean on on the
live here what I'm gonna dobecause I'll get 400 calls

(01:08:46):
asking for the same thing.
But I'm telling you, I'm tellingyou, we believe in you.
We instantly liked you.
I want you here.
Thank you.
I'll do what it takes to helpyou get here.
Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:00):
That can help you decide, Matthew.
That can help you decide.
The workshop will by the bySunday.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:07):
The two of you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:08):
The two of you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:08):
The two of you make you and then make the decision.
How about that, buddy?

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:12):
And then you'll get the sex product.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:14):
That's right.
All right, deal.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:16):
That's the attorney.
You guys drive a hard bargain.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:18):
Uh hey, we do what we can.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:24):
Thank you.
Thank you, Matthew.
You're gonna get a call from us,bud.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:30):
All right, I'll make sure my voice smells clear, just
in case.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:34):
Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:35):
Thank you, Matthew.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:36):
All right, guys.
Thank you so much.
Have a great day.
God bless.

SPEAKER_09 (01:09:38):
You too.
You too.
Bye.
Oh, he was great.
I like that guy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:43):
I know.
He's he knows what he's talkingabout, et cetera, et cetera.
And uh and some people thinking,you didn't offer me anything.
I'm sorry if I sound prejudiced.
I I just like it when somebodyhas already done their work,
already done the research,already been to one of our
workshops, for example.
They know they know what to do,and they're vacillating.

(01:10:05):
Yeah.
We and plus, we have people callus that that just don't have any
money.
Uh, and we do our best.
And we don't want anybody everto miss our workshop because
they don't have money.
And I'm not saying he doesn't.
For all I know, that guy's abillionaire.
But yeah, but we don't you wantyou to ever ever bypass our
workshop because you think youcan't afford it.

(01:10:25):
We'll figure out something.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:27):
We will.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:28):
If you have a genuine need.
A genuine need, not just lookingfor a discount.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:32):
It's true.
Well, I know we're at the end ofour time together.
I would like to end differently.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:37):
Okay.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:39):
So what I would like to do is end in prayer.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:44):
You're the boss.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:45):
I am the boss.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:47):
I work for you.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:48):
I get to choose what happens.
No, that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:50):
She signs my paycheck.

SPEAKER_09 (01:10:53):
Yeah, somehow, someone does electronically.
But uh at the it at MarriageHelper, we have been taking 12
days, along with those 12 daysof Christmas that we all sing
about and all the fun things.
But we have been doing 12 daysof prayer.
And so as I was getting readytoday, I thought we should do it
today on the live show as well.

(01:11:14):
And so let's pray.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:18):
Go ahead.

SPEAKER_09 (01:11:18):
I will.
God, we are grateful that youlove us.
And God, we know that there areso many hurting marriages out
there.
That's right.
The people who are listeningright now, the people who will
listen later, the people whowon't listen at all.
There are still so manymarriages that are in crisis.
And God, as much as it breaksour heart for those marriages,

(01:11:41):
which it does, it breaks yourheart even more.
And God, we are grateful thatyou care about those marriages.
And we pray that you wouldintervene to soften hearts.
We know that there's free will.
But God, we pray that you wouldprovide every circumstance
absolutely possible in order forthose hearts to be softened, for

(01:12:01):
people to turn back, forreluctant spouses or straying
spouses, as we sometimes callthem, to turn back to their
marriage, and also for standingspouses, like we just heard, to
continue to be bold, to continueto stand strong, even when
hurtful things happen, when hardthings happen, when there
doesn't seem to be any hope orany progress, God, that you

(01:12:23):
would give, that you would givethe sustenance needed in order
to continue to forgive the hardthings, to continue to love even
in seemingly impossiblesituations, because we know that
that's what you've done for us.
And God, we are so grateful thatthat you do love us and that you
loved us first and there was noprerequisite for it.

(01:12:44):
And God, I pray that you wouldgive us, everyone listening,
whether they're a believer ornot, that same heart, that same
heart to love.
And I pray for anyone who'slistening who doesn't know you
that maybe this is the time forthem to pray themselves because
we know that you are present andnear, and you don't have to have
any special education orrequirement or anything to

(01:13:08):
simply go to you in prayer.
And so, God, we pray formarriages to be saved.
We pray for us to have thecorrect uh and and holy heart
position going into theChristmas season.
That everything we do, that wewould become more and more like
Jesus and how we act and loveeach other.

(01:13:29):
That's right.
And it's in Jesus' holy name wepray.
Amen.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:34):
Amen.

SPEAKER_09 (01:13:34):
Amen.

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Marriage Helper LIVE - December 10, 2025

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