February 7, 2025 • 36 mins
Our latest podcast, hosts Simone, Tany and Deb discuss “Brooklyn Thomas Isn’t Here” a novel by Alli Vail. Her best friend is missing, her career is a disaster, she's stuck living with her parents, and now her heart isn't beating. Can Brooklyn Thomas confront her past to save her present? Brooklyn Thomas is pretty sure she’s mostly dead. She can’t feel her heart beat and she’s disappearing: her reflection keeps vanishing from mirrors. No one else seems to notice. To top it all off, she’s hallucinating stars from all her favourite TV shows who want Brooklyn to pull herself together and face some hard truths.
This book explores how women contort and minimize themselves to fit the roles society and family offer them, and the serious price they pay for doing so.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This book explores how women contort and minimize themselves to fit the roles society and family offer them, and the serious price they pay for doing so.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Join us and online with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Relaxing Reads. Hi, it's Devin Halifax, Hiatt Simone
in Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hey, it's Tanya and Edmonton.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
How are you both good?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Still?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Aky?
Speaker 4 (00:14):
I had shingles?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Is that what you ended up having? Dah? Yes.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I initially thought it was the flu because there are
similar symptoms, and my body was really achey, and I
actually had a really bad cough and I got a puffer.
So it just progressed like throughout the week, and then
by Thursday, I was leaving the studio and I could
barely lift my right arm. It was just it was
(00:41):
so painful, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
And then I did some research and I had a rash.
But initially I thought it was from my sports bra
and I had mentioned it to a nurse practitioner who
I had seen who got me on the puffers, and
she said just keep an eye on it. And I
started googling, Okay, rash with flu like symptoms, and up
(01:04):
pops shingles. I'm like, oh my god. And then I
started going through I'm like, oh my god, oh my god.
So I had like just a couple like around my
elbow and it's still very tingly, and I get these
shooting pains like out of nowhere. And the doctor said
that it can continue for weeks and even months after
(01:26):
it's it's done. But oh my gosh, and my mom's
had and I've known a couple of other people. Actually
a girl here at work, she had one near her
eye and they were really concerned that she was going
to lose her sight.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Really, I didn't know if you could get that serious.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, quite serious. So anyway, if you've had the chicken pox,
you're at risk, right, you are at risk. So I
can't give you the shingles. And it's actually our own
body that opens up to what becomes the shingles later
in life. So I just couldn't. The doctor said, don't
(02:06):
be around babies like under a year, or pregnant women
or somebody who has an in their immunity is compromised
because of some other underlying issues.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Like when did they encourage getting a shingle shot, because
I've had friends who have gotten it in their thirties,
but before it was like you would get it, like
you were told you're going to get it later in life.
So it was like fifty plus. But it's like, if
you want to be counteractive, like, should we be getting
it younger?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, apparently, And I should have taken the advice of
my colleague who had it a year ago and got
the shot, but I never thought of it again after
she'd mentioned it. So now I can. I can get
it in a few months time. But then I started
hearing from other friends who've had it a couple of
times once in their twenties, where they barely noticed any
(02:58):
symptoms except for the rash, and the second time around
really took them down. So it's something that I feel
like it's only been talked about in recent years or more.
People are talking about having it or knowing somebody, but
it can be quite serious and it's not something that
(03:20):
you want to mess with.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, it just sounds so scary, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
So when they confirmed it, I'm I'm like, oh, okay,
I'm just gonna rest now.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, I'm glad you're okay, because I know, yeah, thank you,
you were sick there for a while.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's just the time of year.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I feel like we had We've had a lingering cough
in our home since Christmas, like kind of just passing
through everybody, just one of those things. And in our
community there's been a lot of walking pneumonia. That's something
I never even heard about either, I.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Know, I guess it's my sister in law and brother
had it over the holidays or before Christmas. And it's
very much like pneumonia U and still very serious. But
I think it's the stage at where it is why
they call it walking pneumonia. So sometimes at a certain
stage you can't get the antibiotics or it's already gone
(04:13):
through you. So you know, just take care and stay
home and do all the things that we should be
doing when we're sick. But yeah, there's so much going on.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well that's all you hope for, is just healthy start
for the rest of the year. Now hopefully we're pasting, yeah,
kind of past that.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, we appreciate when when you do have an illness
of some sort, it makes you kind of think twice
and get it and think, I don't know how people
like you feel for people who have chronic pain and
people who are sick you know more than just for
a few days or a week. So you appreciate the
health that you have, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And how are things with you, Tanya, They're.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Okay, I'm you know, my rent has gone up, so
I'm like trying to look.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
For another place. It's so crazy. So it's like and
my boyfriend and I are like, are we going to
move in together? Are we not?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I just feel like it's I feel really stressed.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Actually, big life.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
I've lived in my I've lived in my home for
twenty years, you know, I mean it's been a rental apartment,
but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's it's homes, right, yeah, it's my home.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
And I have three cats, and it makes it really
difficult to negotiate that right good, like with two and
like everybody, it's so, you know, I want to call
a rental board. But every new place, every place is
like charging not only a pet fee, like a two
hundred and fifty three hundred dollars fee that you don't
get back plus rent. They charge you like thirty five
(05:43):
dollars forty dollars a pet. And I'm like, you know
what if I had kids, Yeah, charge me per child?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, I think it's a bit cheeky.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Like I actually don't know, I mean everybody is doing it.
I don't know whether I don't know, I just feel
like there's something wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't mind.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
I don't mind paying a deposit if your animal, you know,
does something, obviously I get it, you know, they want
to fix things up. But a deposit, you know, just
like I pay a damage deposit if I wreck the place,
you keep the deposit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Right, But no, they're like they're just like you know,
so it's not only just rent.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
It's you got a you know, if you have a pet,
a dog, a cat, whatever, you're paying you know, rent
for them a month that you don't get back. It's
so anyway, So I'm just feeling stressed because I've been
in my building for a long time and I don't
pay for my animals, you know, I don't pay for heat,
water anything, so except I just pay my rent. Right,
(06:41):
So it's a challenge just finding that's tough.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Yeah, So I'm feeling as I hope I don't get shingles.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, And you know what, that is a thing. And
I think what we seem to do a lot, we multitask.
We just keep taking on more things, and we keep
on taking more things on and putting them on our
plate because we know we can do them. We've done
them before, but eventually our body says not this time.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So yeah, like what happens with Caro Flynn.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Oh, I was just gonna say it happens with Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, so crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So that's me. They can only get better.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Trip I have to take and I shouldn't even say
that I have a trip I have to take because
I won this gift card and it's like it's awesome,
Like I won it last year, I had a year
to use it.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I haven't used it yet.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
All travel has to be completed by April seventeen, and
it's like, you know, it's a trip anywhere they go.
So I'm like, I'm just like, I don't know who
to put on the ticket with me. Is it going
to be Greg, Is it going to be my sister?
Is it going to be you know? So I get
caught up with all the details and it makes me
actually not able to function at all. It's so stupid,
(08:00):
like anybody would dream for something like this, and for me,
it's just crippling. And I don't know whether it's just
because of all the other shit that's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I just feel it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, it seems like when you have a lot of
decisions to make.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think that's it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You get you start thinking of like the overall, like
the enormity of all of it, as opposed to just saying, Okay,
I'm going to break this down and you know, do this.
But it's all happening at once, so it's really hard
for you, but you know what, you'll get there and
before you know it, you'll be on that vacation. Life
will be sorted and you will think back and say,
you know what, it was a tough couple months, but
(08:35):
at least I'm here now soaking up the sun, maybe
somewhere warm, and it all works out. It always does, right,
We stress about things and then it just always works out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, we're putting out the positive energy for you exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Good vibes, Yeah, good, good vibes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
All right, let's get into our discussion. Deb tell us
a little bit about this book.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Our latest read. Brooklyn Thomas Is Here is a novel
by Ali Vail. Her best friend is missing, her career
is a disaster, she's stuck living with her parents, and
now her heart isn't beating. Can Brooklyn Thomas confront her
past to save her present? Brooklyn Thomas is pretty sure
she's mostly dead. She can't feel her heartbeat, and she's disappearing.
Her reflection keeps vanishing from mirrors no one else seems
(09:21):
to notice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And to top it all off.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
She's hallucinating stars from all her favorite TV shows who
want Brooklyn to pull herself together and face some hard truths.
This book explores how women contort and minimize themselves to
fit the role society and family offer them, and the
serious price they pay for doing so. The one thing
(09:44):
that I took from it, or not just one thing,
but one thing that I think a number of readers
will get as well, is the donut theme. And every
time I put the book down for a moment, I
thought I should really go out and get some donuts.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I'm with you, I was like, I don't eat as
many donuts as maybe I should consume. Like you're hearing
about people walking in getting their daily donut or doing that,
and I was.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Like, I need to start eating more donuts.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Totally.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Wait, good, guys, there was like that that whole craze,
at least here in Edmonton, where everyone is doing cupcakes,
like little little cupcakes and wedding you know, people would
do like wedding cake, cupcake things, and it was very elaborate.
And now it's like donuts. There's so many donut shops here.
And when I was reading this book, I mean I
(10:33):
could just like I could just taste those donuts, and
all the people who worked there, they were all eating donuts,
and I don't think that they were gaining any weight.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And I'm like, I want to know how that happens.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, I think a lot of them were in their
young twenties. Yeah, it doesn't it's a different experience.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
It doesn't happen. I worked at a donut shop coffee
shop and used to take home some of it, like
at the end of the shift, we you know, the
old donuts that didn't go They're like, okay, split it,
take it, do whatever you want with it, because otherwise
it was they were throwing them out and I put
on like the you know what did they say, the college,
(11:13):
the university, the college fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Freshman fifteen or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yet yeah, yeah, I put on a few pounds by
doing that. So then I had to say, no, I
don't need those oldtai old donuts. We'll just leave them
over there in the corner.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But you know, the donuts were the sweet spot in
the book. There was a lot of heavy stuff in here.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
There was, Yeah, it's it's definitely not a light read.
It's it's relatable. And when we talk about the donuts
that being the soft spot, I think it's because it's
it's comfort. And I also found myself taking a moment
or two to take everything in everything that was happening
with Brooklyn and take some deep breaths because there was
(11:57):
a lot happening all around her. And I found myself
thinking about my younger self and some of my friends
and how we couldn't stand up for ourselves as young
women in a workforce. Now we could go back and
offer encouragement and say you go get what you want
and you deserve this, and don't stand back. You have
(12:20):
the right to say or do as you believe without
stepping out of line and being disrespectful, I suppose. But
I could see Brooklyn in a number of people I knew,
including myself at times. Did you both feel the same
way or similar not.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To the extreme of Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I've always been sort of fascinated by I think maybe
just people in general, where you know, what is it
in a person that gives them, you know, the strength
that they need even as a young person to be driven, focused,
and it seems like nothing stops them. And then there's
I think where most of us sit. You know, as
(13:02):
you're younger and then you get older, you are so
affected by what other people might say to you, how
people treat you, what your parents say to you, and
you don't really have that self confidence, you know, and
that might continue into your early adulthood and hopefully you
get through it. But it just takes some of us
so much longer to get to that point of strength.
(13:23):
And I think with Brooklyn, like she just you know,
as you read this book, you find out what her
relationship is like with her mother, complicated, her relationship with
her brother horrific. You know, what she had going on
in terms of work, and what happened to her at work,
(13:44):
and at some point her body just shut down where
she felt like she was disappearing, She felt like she
was dead, you know. And I think that we I
can see that happening to people because sometimes we just
don't have the strength. It seems like all the forces
are against us, and we just shut down, bit by
bit by bit, and I think with Brooklyn it was
(14:04):
like her heart stopped where she felt her heart stopped,
her arm stopped, like everything just sort of stopped with her.
And you know, with a university degree and that and
being director of communications or whatever she was with that
Lawrence Communications company, and then all of a sudden she
crashes and burns and she's working at a donut shop,
you know. And it's like, I just think it's a
(14:26):
culination of a lot of things that put her in
the donut shop, you know. And I think it happens
to people. I've had times where I haven't been that,
you know, confident, and you just should have shut down
and then you regroup.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I think life is always about kind of regroup, regroup, regroup.
Stuff happens, regroup. I don't know what about U Simon.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, I think I think that too.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I Mean, there was some scenarios where I thought I
could relate to it, like just having those feelings of anxiousness,
Like I've had moments where I've been really anxious and
same thing.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I feel like, you know, your heart, you're.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Just like kind of panicking and you're doing that. So
when she was talking about not feeling like she had
a heartbeat. I've been there where I'm like, I need
to look at my Apple watch and to see where
my heart is, and you don't realize it until you're
out of it, like what that was when you're just
really overwhelmed. And I went through a period of life
as well, like when I was years ago, where life
just was not great and I couldn't pinpoint what it was.
(15:22):
And then when I got out of it, I'm like,
I think I had kind of a slight depression. I
just was not enjoying things, But there was nothing really
big going on in my life to pinpoint why I
was going through that. But obviously it could have been
accumulation of just things like not being happy with work
or certain things in life. I think you get to
those points where maybe you've set goals for yourself and
then things change. But you know, I feel like as
(15:45):
we get older, I'm way more confident than I was
when I was younger, and I think it's easier to
regroup as you get older, because when you're younger, sometimes
you don't know the path you want to take. You
can get your education, you can choose a career, but
at some point you might I think this is not
for me, and you want to make a change, and
you don't know how to get When you're stuck in
that rut, it is so hard to pull yourself out
(16:08):
of it. And with Brooklyn, I think she leaned so
much on her best friend, and you know, she was
you have those friends who kind of excite you and
you do things with and she had that with Penny.
And when Penny was no longer around, she was almost like,
who am I? Like it was a relationship. She was
mourning because she was like, I don't know who I
(16:28):
am without this person. I can't be honest with my
parents about my situation with my brother. Not feeling good
about herself, like not feeling like a guy would want
to hit.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
On her, Like she was just so stuck.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And it's very relatable in the sense that I think
most people will go through that in life, where you
are in a situation like this and you don't feel good,
you don't feel confident.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But it's about hopefully you can.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Get over that hurdle, because it's hard when you're in it,
and it's hard to see and people can tell you, oh,
you should get a new job, or you should get
out of a relationship. You should do this, but until
you see it, you can't.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yeah, and you have to be ready for it as well.
You really you could can take the advice you know
and understand what is right for you, but until your
whole body, your mind, your soul, everything is ready to
move on and go get whatever that is, you can't
do it. It seems like such an easy task. But
(17:26):
you know, talking about Penny her friend being around, I
think when we're younger and now as well, with our friendships,
our core group of friends, we feel such comfort and
there's always a bit of an adrenaline high. There's a
rush when we're doing things with those people who mean
so much and who get us our little tribes that
(17:46):
when they are missing, a part of you is missing.
So I think maybe that's where she was fading, and
she was not feeling like she was her complete self
and she didn't know how to find that part of
her again or at least mend it until she got
over this particular hurdle.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
M hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And like the work challenges, like being in that environment
where you're dealing with a mainly male dominated industry or
something like that, and just you know, being told time
over time that you're not enough or you're not good enough.
Like that's why I think now with the future trying
to be more female incorporated corporations and organizations who are
(18:26):
understanding that, hopefully that is going to be a step
in the right direction for women not to feel a
certain way, like I know, feeling that way when I
was younger, and it still happens, but that's just work
that needs to be done there too.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Yeah, I mean in the workplace, I mean, honestly, it
wasn't that long ago when women A friend of mine
said that his wife experienced this when she was working
in radio as an executive assistant, and that she would
have her ass pinched by a general manager, and you know,
(19:03):
just certain types of behavior that were just accepted, and
you just and that wasn't that long ago, you know,
So we actually have come really, really far. But yeah,
there's some awful situations that that women have gone through
and trying to better themselves and try to be equal,
you know, and we're darn it, we're still not there yet.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
You know, it's still a long way to go.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
But you know, this book does explore that of what
Brooklyn went through with this company that she worked for,
you know, she would do up releases and that sort
of thing, and then it would be redone by somebody
else in the Fern firm unbeknownst to her, like she'd
find about.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Out about it afterwards.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
There was a you know, a sexual altercation within the office,
which kind of prompted her that she left right, But
then it's just it just makes you angry that these
things are even happening, and that's why she had to leave,
you know, And she wasn't standing up for herself, and
she couldn't tell her mother because her mother wouldn't. Her
mother was completely disconnected from her. She had a star son,
(20:03):
and I felt like she just didn't connect with her daughter.
Now mother daughter relationships are difficult or can be difficult,
but wow, I just felt I felt like this whole
book is sort of you know, with Brooklyn just trying
to find out who the real her is and and
having her voice. And you know, when you had a
childhood friend like Penny, where you did everything together and
(20:24):
then she goes and changes her life and you're left
and you don't know who you are, it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
This whole book is just her trying to trying to
figure out who her true self is and having having
the guts to live it. And I think that's why
she feels so immobilized and not seen and invisible.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
She just doesn't know.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
I mean there's a thing where she watches a lot
of TV and says that, you know, reality sucks, like
TV's every TV fills.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
In the gaps. You know, her life kind of leaves off.
And let's talk about like what she what she ended
up doing.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
She she hallucinated or she had all these these television
women that she watched when she was a kid, and
these four women all named Emily, different spellings, all come
visit her at different parts. Like when that first happened,
when she was talking to somebody in her room, I'm like,
what's going on?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, what is it? Hypno gogic?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What is it called hypno gogic hallucinations?
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Hallucinations where you actually yeah, I was trying to I
did have a definition of it anyway. Yeah, it's an
actual real thing that happens to people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Like they say, seventy percent of people have experienced it.
I'm like, why haven't.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I haven't either either, Well, the doctor.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Had dreams of you know, either celebrities or people that
you've met through work and you can't figure out for
a while in the dream sequence, how do I know
this person? And then you see them the next day
or you see them down the road and they come
into play. So when there are certain dreams, the experts
(22:06):
say that it makes sense if you look at what's
going on in your life or look at the people
around you, you could see those people and how they
come into play in what might have ever been going
on in your mind at that particular time. But as
far as.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Having that happen in reality.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Live time, I've not experienced it.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
No, I've not experienced it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Someone did say once like if you are thinking about something,
or you have an idea, like right before you fall asleep,
think about it and say how do I flush out
this idea? And apparently when you sleep, you're subconscious helps
you flush out an idea like that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So that's what I recently saw a Red Summer. So
with her, I think it was that same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
She's in and out, she's about to fall asleep, she's
not fully there, and then she's just the answer she's
looking for are coming to her in that form, And
it was really weird, Like up until the end, I was.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like, is this like the sixth sense? Is she not here?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like what's happening? I thought it was really really weird,
but it was. It was interesting that they were all
Emily's but they were all these characters that were like strong,
like badass women who had done all this stuff. So
it's like that's what she was searching for. She was
searching how to be more like them, and that's what
was coming into play. But it was so interesting that
(23:24):
when she went to the doctor, it was just like
are you on drugs?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Are you doing drugs?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Like what kind of drugs are you on?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And it's like, I'm not doing drugs, Like this is happening.
So it was interesting that they were there and they
were helping guide her along the way when she was lost,
and it just kind of shows you. It's just it's
that belief or support system. So she didn't have it
in the form of friends, her mom, best friend, so
it was coming to her in different forms. So it's like,
(23:50):
however you can pull from it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
It's just yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I never I've never read about stuff like that, and
I didn't realize seventy percent of people that's a huge number.
We need to walk around be like, are you having hypnogogics?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
They say, like seventy experience it at least once in
a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Once in a lifetime, Okay, not repetitive.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Happen with Brooklyn. But I've never even heard of the term.
So no, Yeah, you love reading. You just learn stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
You learn too much, learn stuff like we can manifest
a lot of things, can't we good or bad? When
we're thinking about you know, if we're struggling with something like, oh,
it's never going to happen, never going to happen, and
then you start to think some more positive thoughts and
one or two little things fall into place, and then
you start to believe that, yeah, the good can come
(24:40):
to me too. It's not just those other people over
there who look like they've got it all going on
and they've always had the strength that I am desperately
looking for right now. So I think that we all
have the ability to do that and and gravitate towards
those good things along with the other things that that
might be weighing us down.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, I find that brain.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I find our brains fascinating, Like it's like the most
important part of us other than our heart. But our
brains determine so much, don't they. Like they they can
they can if you don't believe in yourself, if you're
down and out, your brain will just go there, you know,
and they but it can also learn to love yourself too, right, Like,
(25:29):
it just really determines how you live your life and
how you are affected. And I just found it fascinating,
especially seeing Brooklyn's sort of arc in this book of
where she started and and what's happening to her and
and where she gets at the end. You know, she
at the end, she sort of she grabs, she grabs
(25:51):
some and she just oh wow, what she did do
with Matt?
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So mad?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Is this crazy guy? Matt is the guy who owns
the donut shop? What a repeat iticky person.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Oh it's just so bad. Yeah, we see.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
But I think after years of not being able to
stand up to men in the workplace, in those corporate jobs,
she kind of didn't know where to go.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But then she realized, this is not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
This is not like a career job. It's a fun
place I am while I'm between jobs. So she took
a stand, and then I like that she took a
stand for those younger women. Like how we're saying, like,
you know, as we get older, it's kind of our
duty to help the younger women and the younger generations
by providing that advice of like, we went through this,
and this is what I would have done if I
could go back in time. So think about these things.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Yeah, and of course we hear about sorry dev that,
we hear about what. No, you know, Kaylee and Becca
are these two young women. I'm thinking they're hot young women.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You know.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
I don't think Matt hires anybody except you know, except that.
But we find out a little bit about them, and
we find out about Kaylee, who is really trying to
be Brooklyn's friend, you know, Brooklyn's just sort of arm's
length arm's length, you know. And we find out that
that Kayleie had a girlfriend of hers that Matt, one
(27:11):
of his friends, hit her.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And that's the.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Whole because Kaylee was very sort of like she didn't
take any shit from Matt, you know, and you understand
why because she knows what Matt's friend did to her girlfriend, right,
and so but she's also living with that that I
don't know, I don't think her girlfriend reported it like, I, oh,
I just that's kind of stuff makes me crazy, I know, But.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I think it comes down to, like, find a safe space,
find someone who you can share things with, because I
think so often we're so afraid of saying things or
being judged or it's hard to talk about certain things.
But the more we start to do that, we can
all relate better to each other because we've you know,
we all know someone who's gone through situations. We've gone
(27:59):
through situations, and it's yeah, it's one of those things
I always think, like sometimes why don't why don't people
speak up? Why don't we say the things we want
to say? And we're so afraid. But it's when you're
finding a safe space that's what you have to look at,
like who can be the one person in this whole
world that I can truly say whatever to without fear,
without judgment, and and go from there. But uh, yeah,
(28:23):
I really liked her journey from where she started to
where she was, and she went through that struggle like
so many do. But we got there, we got there
where she she found her power.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And what about Henry?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Henry just kept showing up at the right times.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
He did didn't he he did.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, he was kind of dreamy.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, I think he was her.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
You know, he saw her find out later in the
book why he kept coming into the donut shop and
that he didn't actually eat donuts.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
So I thought that was really really I don't like that,
But you know, he's obviously people are complicated, relationships are complicated,
and there's definitely a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
With with Henry. But there's one point that I really loved.
He asked her Brooklyn, to go to a museum in Victoria,
and she had kind of forgotten about how much she
loved history, and he said to her, he said, I
can hear your heart when you talk about history. And
I'm like, gosh, isn't that what we all want in
(29:28):
a partner, someone who like who sees us like when
we talk about something and our face lights up and
we're like, you know, you just and you have somebody
with you, whether it's a friend or a partner or
whomever that goes wow.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
You just I get it, you light up. I see that.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
I love that, you know, So I really I was
really pulling for those two.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah. It was yeah, me too, that moment.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Where was it Cashpe walked in. She's like, Wow, isn't
this adorable? I was like, what is he going to
happen here? And she sure gave her an earful But
the brother, the brother was the worst character of just terrible,
Like just how do you like, I get sibling rivalry?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
My brother and I we have fought along the way, but.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We have never been that nasty to each other ever,
And it's just that was a hard part of the
book for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah, he's so brother like we you know, with with
the girls. There were three girls in my family and
we were all kind of you know, trying to find
our space. And we did get along and we you know,
certainly share a lot of laughs today, but it never
got to the extent of where you fear, Like you
(30:39):
had that great fear and you thought, is this truly
a you know, somebody who's part of my family? Like
is you know, and lifelong fear.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But it's also because the parents didn't shut it down.
The mom didn't shut it down, right, Like, I have
two boys and there is a lot of fighting, there's a.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Lot of stuff, but I shut it down.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I try to look at them individually, understand, And you
know where it started, how it did like you try
to do your best to be like, Okay, take some space,
do this.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
You're not trying to.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Pick a side, You're just trying to say, how do
we move from this?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
How can you too work it out? Figure it out?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Like it's it's hard to do, But if I just
supported one child over the other, you can see how
it's just it's hard. You don't have someone to talk
to you, so you just let it slide because you're like, oh,
I don't want to upset mom again and complain because
she's not going to believe me or Dad's not going
to believe me. So I think that was that was
hard that she just yeah, like if you don't get
(31:32):
that support from your parents and they're not shutting down
that bad behavior, then you know until the end, which
I was so happy that the dad was like get
out of here, and but yeah, that was that was
definitely a challenge. So you can see why that was
hard for her too.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
I feel like her brother Spencer was was evil, Like
I just he you know, she would say that his
blue eyes would turn black, you know, which is basically emotionless,
and then they would go back right, So I think
he you know, he inflicted real.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Harm on her and and enjoyed doing it.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
I mean even at the very last when the barbecue
was happening and he reached behind her neck and squeezed right,
and and that's when I think Grace and Ashley, I
think they they saw it right. And so he truly
was an evil character, like I said, a sociopath. And
what's really scary for me with that particular character is
(32:30):
that he was training to be a doctor. I know,
he has no feeling for people.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Like these are the people that these are the people at.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Harm Animals, right, Like I just, I just, I really
I have to ask the author. I think, you know
why she wrote such an evil character, Like I didn't
think he had any redeeming qualities. He was just a
really awful, awful person and that will just continue fictionally
into this person's life as a medical doctor.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Like that just makes me.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Go eck or yeah yeah, right, yeah I did. It
was Grace, wasn't it Grace that came around at the party, and.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Grace I like her, she had I know.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah, And there was some great characters in this book.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oh great characters.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It seems like she's real.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, and she seems like now she's found like kind
of her new group.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
She's got Henry.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Henry's friends were all very warm and accepting, and you know,
she's finally come up with the truth about a lot
of things.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
So I think she's on the right path forward.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Yeah, And there's that scene towards the end where she
does have the you know, hallucinates Penny, And that whole
part of the story too, is just you know how
your best friend, everything that you plan to do gets
up changes right all of a sudden, this other person
wants to do something else and goes and does something
and then she's off and and she doesn't come back.
(34:01):
And it's just sort of that heartbreaking moment where she truly,
you know, feels that Penny is gone. And it almost
made me cry. I almost cried that little part, yeah,
because it's just like, oh, you know, but yeah, Brooklyn
comes through though, and with like you said, simone new group.
She's got something deep inside of her. She told her
(34:25):
mom everything, right, she told her or.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Not, or her dad. I really loved her dad.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I felt bad for him too, because I felt like
he didn't really know his family.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
He was almost invisible seems like he's doing.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
A little reevaluating here too at the end.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Absolutely, Yeah, there's a lot going on in his life,
so I kind of.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
I'd like to see a little more of what could be. Yeah,
their relationship, a few others might be. I don't know
if there is something else to come beyond you know,
this novel, but I'd be interested in reading about it.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think it just goes to show, like overall, like
wherever you are in life, you can make those changes.
You don't have to stay stuck. Like sometimes we do
stay stuck, but every day is a new day and
it's a new chance to you know, wake up and say, Okay,
like am I happy? If I'm not, what are the
steps I need to take to get that happiness?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Because we all know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Life is short and we all have struggles, But it's
just how are you going to pull yourself out of
those struggles.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
And truly live the life you want to lead. It's
all up to us.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah, yeah, it can have great friends, really really, friendship
are big, huge, because no life is tough, but it
can be so beautiful too.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
M Yeah, it was a good book, a good read,
a good little.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Eye opener, definitely so.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Again, the name of the book, Brooklyn Thomas, isn't here
from Ali Vale, who we will actually chat with on
our next episode. Thanks for being here with us until
next time. Goodbye.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on relaxing reads.
Join us and online with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Relaxing Reads. Hi, it's Devin Halifax, Hiatt Simone
in Vancouver.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Hey, it's Tanya and Edmonton.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
How are you both good?
Speaker 4 (00:13):
Still?
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Aky?
Speaker 4 (00:14):
I had shingles?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Is that what you ended up having? Dah? Yes.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
I initially thought it was the flu because there are
similar symptoms, and my body was really achey, and I
actually had a really bad cough and I got a puffer.
So it just progressed like throughout the week, and then
by Thursday, I was leaving the studio and I could
barely lift my right arm. It was just it was
(00:41):
so painful, and I'm like, I don't know what's going on.
And then I did some research and I had a rash.
But initially I thought it was from my sports bra
and I had mentioned it to a nurse practitioner who
I had seen who got me on the puffers, and
she said just keep an eye on it. And I
started googling, Okay, rash with flu like symptoms, and up
(01:04):
pops shingles. I'm like, oh my god. And then I
started going through I'm like, oh my god, oh my god.
So I had like just a couple like around my
elbow and it's still very tingly, and I get these
shooting pains like out of nowhere. And the doctor said
that it can continue for weeks and even months after
(01:26):
it's it's done. But oh my gosh, and my mom's
had and I've known a couple of other people. Actually
a girl here at work, she had one near her
eye and they were really concerned that she was going
to lose her sight.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Really, I didn't know if you could get that serious.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, quite serious. So anyway, if you've had the chicken pox,
you're at risk, right, you are at risk. So I
can't give you the shingles. And it's actually our own
body that opens up to what becomes the shingles later
in life. So I just couldn't. The doctor said, don't
(02:06):
be around babies like under a year, or pregnant women
or somebody who has an in their immunity is compromised
because of some other underlying issues.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Like when did they encourage getting a shingle shot, because
I've had friends who have gotten it in their thirties,
but before it was like you would get it, like
you were told you're going to get it later in life.
So it was like fifty plus. But it's like, if
you want to be counteractive, like, should we be getting
it younger?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, apparently, And I should have taken the advice of
my colleague who had it a year ago and got
the shot, but I never thought of it again after
she'd mentioned it. So now I can. I can get
it in a few months time. But then I started
hearing from other friends who've had it a couple of
times once in their twenties, where they barely noticed any
(02:58):
symptoms except for the rash, and the second time around
really took them down. So it's something that I feel
like it's only been talked about in recent years or more.
People are talking about having it or knowing somebody, but
it can be quite serious and it's not something that
(03:20):
you want to mess with.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
No, it just sounds so scary, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
So when they confirmed it, I'm I'm like, oh, okay,
I'm just gonna rest now.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Well, I'm glad you're okay, because I know, yeah, thank you,
you were sick there for a while.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's just the time of year.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I feel like we had We've had a lingering cough
in our home since Christmas, like kind of just passing
through everybody, just one of those things. And in our
community there's been a lot of walking pneumonia. That's something
I never even heard about either, I.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
Know, I guess it's my sister in law and brother
had it over the holidays or before Christmas. And it's
very much like pneumonia U and still very serious. But
I think it's the stage at where it is why
they call it walking pneumonia. So sometimes at a certain
stage you can't get the antibiotics or it's already gone
(04:13):
through you. So you know, just take care and stay
home and do all the things that we should be
doing when we're sick. But yeah, there's so much going on.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well that's all you hope for, is just healthy start
for the rest of the year. Now hopefully we're pasting, yeah,
kind of past that.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Yeah, we appreciate when when you do have an illness
of some sort, it makes you kind of think twice
and get it and think, I don't know how people
like you feel for people who have chronic pain and
people who are sick you know more than just for
a few days or a week. So you appreciate the
health that you have, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And how are things with you, Tanya, They're.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Okay, I'm you know, my rent has gone up, so
I'm like trying to look.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
For another place. It's so crazy. So it's like and
my boyfriend and I are like, are we going to
move in together? Are we not?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I just feel like it's I feel really stressed.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Actually, big life.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
I've lived in my I've lived in my home for
twenty years, you know, I mean it's been a rental apartment,
but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's it's homes, right, yeah, it's my home.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
And I have three cats, and it makes it really
difficult to negotiate that right good, like with two and
like everybody, it's so, you know, I want to call
a rental board. But every new place, every place is
like charging not only a pet fee, like a two
hundred and fifty three hundred dollars fee that you don't
get back plus rent. They charge you like thirty five
(05:43):
dollars forty dollars a pet. And I'm like, you know
what if I had kids, Yeah, charge me per child?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, I think it's a bit cheeky.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Like I actually don't know, I mean everybody is doing it.
I don't know whether I don't know, I just feel
like there's something wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't mind.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
I don't mind paying a deposit if your animal, you know,
does something, obviously I get it, you know, they want
to fix things up. But a deposit, you know, just
like I pay a damage deposit if I wreck the place,
you keep the deposit.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Right, But no, they're like they're just like you know,
so it's not only just rent.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
It's you got a you know, if you have a pet,
a dog, a cat, whatever, you're paying you know, rent
for them a month that you don't get back. It's
so anyway, So I'm just feeling stressed because I've been
in my building for a long time and I don't
pay for my animals, you know, I don't pay for heat,
water anything, so except I just pay my rent. Right,
(06:41):
So it's a challenge just finding that's tough.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Yeah, So I'm feeling as I hope I don't get shingles.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Yeah, And you know what, that is a thing. And
I think what we seem to do a lot, we multitask.
We just keep taking on more things, and we keep
on taking more things on and putting them on our
plate because we know we can do them. We've done
them before, but eventually our body says not this time.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
So yeah, like what happens with Caro Flynn.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Oh, I was just gonna say it happens with Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, so crazy.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
So that's me. They can only get better.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
Trip I have to take and I shouldn't even say
that I have a trip I have to take because
I won this gift card and it's like it's awesome,
Like I won it last year, I had a year
to use it.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I haven't used it yet.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
All travel has to be completed by April seventeen, and
it's like, you know, it's a trip anywhere they go.
So I'm like, I'm just like, I don't know who
to put on the ticket with me. Is it going
to be Greg, Is it going to be my sister?
Is it going to be you know? So I get
caught up with all the details and it makes me
actually not able to function at all. It's so stupid,
(08:00):
like anybody would dream for something like this, and for me,
it's just crippling. And I don't know whether it's just
because of all the other shit that's going on.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
I just feel it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Probably.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, it seems like when you have a lot of
decisions to make.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I think that's it.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You get you start thinking of like the overall, like
the enormity of all of it, as opposed to just saying, Okay,
I'm going to break this down and you know, do this.
But it's all happening at once, so it's really hard
for you, but you know what, you'll get there and
before you know it, you'll be on that vacation. Life
will be sorted and you will think back and say,
you know what, it was a tough couple months, but
(08:35):
at least I'm here now soaking up the sun, maybe
somewhere warm, and it all works out. It always does, right,
We stress about things and then it just always works out.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, we're putting out the positive energy for you exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Good vibes, Yeah, good, good vibes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
All right, let's get into our discussion. Deb tell us
a little bit about this book.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Our latest read. Brooklyn Thomas Is Here is a novel
by Ali Vail. Her best friend is missing, her career
is a disaster, she's stuck living with her parents, and
now her heart isn't beating. Can Brooklyn Thomas confront her
past to save her present? Brooklyn Thomas is pretty sure
she's mostly dead. She can't feel her heartbeat, and she's disappearing.
Her reflection keeps vanishing from mirrors no one else seems
(09:21):
to notice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And to top it all off.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
She's hallucinating stars from all her favorite TV shows who
want Brooklyn to pull herself together and face some hard truths.
This book explores how women contort and minimize themselves to
fit the role society and family offer them, and the
serious price they pay for doing so. The one thing
(09:44):
that I took from it, or not just one thing,
but one thing that I think a number of readers
will get as well, is the donut theme. And every
time I put the book down for a moment, I
thought I should really go out and get some donuts.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I'm with you, I was like, I don't eat as
many donuts as maybe I should consume. Like you're hearing
about people walking in getting their daily donut or doing that,
and I was.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Like, I need to start eating more donuts.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Totally.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Wait, good, guys, there was like that that whole craze,
at least here in Edmonton, where everyone is doing cupcakes,
like little little cupcakes and wedding you know, people would
do like wedding cake, cupcake things, and it was very elaborate.
And now it's like donuts. There's so many donut shops here.
And when I was reading this book, I mean I
(10:33):
could just like I could just taste those donuts, and
all the people who worked there, they were all eating donuts,
and I don't think that they were gaining any weight.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And I'm like, I want to know how that happens.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, I think a lot of them were in their
young twenties. Yeah, it doesn't it's a different experience.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
It doesn't happen. I worked at a donut shop coffee
shop and used to take home some of it, like
at the end of the shift, we you know, the
old donuts that didn't go They're like, okay, split it,
take it, do whatever you want with it, because otherwise
it was they were throwing them out and I put
on like the you know what did they say, the college,
(11:13):
the university, the college fifteen.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Freshman fifteen or whatever.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yet yeah, yeah, I put on a few pounds by
doing that. So then I had to say, no, I
don't need those oldtai old donuts. We'll just leave them
over there in the corner.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But you know, the donuts were the sweet spot in
the book. There was a lot of heavy stuff in here.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
There was, Yeah, it's it's definitely not a light read.
It's it's relatable. And when we talk about the donuts
that being the soft spot, I think it's because it's
it's comfort. And I also found myself taking a moment
or two to take everything in everything that was happening
with Brooklyn and take some deep breaths because there was
(11:57):
a lot happening all around her. And I found myself
thinking about my younger self and some of my friends
and how we couldn't stand up for ourselves as young
women in a workforce. Now we could go back and
offer encouragement and say you go get what you want
and you deserve this, and don't stand back. You have
(12:20):
the right to say or do as you believe without
stepping out of line and being disrespectful, I suppose. But
I could see Brooklyn in a number of people I knew,
including myself at times. Did you both feel the same
way or similar not.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
To the extreme of Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I've always been sort of fascinated by I think maybe
just people in general, where you know, what is it
in a person that gives them, you know, the strength
that they need even as a young person to be driven, focused,
and it seems like nothing stops them. And then there's
I think where most of us sit. You know, as
(13:02):
you're younger and then you get older, you are so
affected by what other people might say to you, how
people treat you, what your parents say to you, and
you don't really have that self confidence, you know, and
that might continue into your early adulthood and hopefully you
get through it. But it just takes some of us
so much longer to get to that point of strength.
(13:23):
And I think with Brooklyn, like she just you know,
as you read this book, you find out what her
relationship is like with her mother, complicated, her relationship with
her brother horrific. You know, what she had going on
in terms of work, and what happened to her at work,
(13:44):
and at some point her body just shut down where
she felt like she was disappearing, She felt like she
was dead, you know. And I think that we I
can see that happening to people because sometimes we just
don't have the strength. It seems like all the forces
are against us, and we just shut down, bit by
bit by bit, and I think with Brooklyn it was
(14:04):
like her heart stopped where she felt her heart stopped,
her arm stopped, like everything just sort of stopped with her.
And you know, with a university degree and that and
being director of communications or whatever she was with that
Lawrence Communications company, and then all of a sudden she
crashes and burns and she's working at a donut shop,
you know. And it's like, I just think it's a
(14:26):
culination of a lot of things that put her in
the donut shop, you know. And I think it happens
to people. I've had times where I haven't been that,
you know, confident, and you just should have shut down
and then you regroup.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
I think life is always about kind of regroup, regroup, regroup.
Stuff happens, regroup. I don't know what about U Simon.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, I think I think that too.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I Mean, there was some scenarios where I thought I
could relate to it, like just having those feelings of anxiousness,
Like I've had moments where I've been really anxious and
same thing.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I feel like, you know, your heart, you're.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Just like kind of panicking and you're doing that. So
when she was talking about not feeling like she had
a heartbeat. I've been there where I'm like, I need
to look at my Apple watch and to see where
my heart is, and you don't realize it until you're
out of it, like what that was when you're just
really overwhelmed. And I went through a period of life
as well, like when I was years ago, where life
just was not great and I couldn't pinpoint what it was.
(15:22):
And then when I got out of it, I'm like,
I think I had kind of a slight depression. I
just was not enjoying things, But there was nothing really
big going on in my life to pinpoint why I
was going through that. But obviously it could have been
accumulation of just things like not being happy with work
or certain things in life. I think you get to
those points where maybe you've set goals for yourself and
then things change. But you know, I feel like as
(15:45):
we get older, I'm way more confident than I was
when I was younger, and I think it's easier to
regroup as you get older, because when you're younger, sometimes
you don't know the path you want to take. You
can get your education, you can choose a career, but
at some point you might I think this is not
for me, and you want to make a change, and
you don't know how to get When you're stuck in
that rut, it is so hard to pull yourself out
(16:08):
of it. And with Brooklyn, I think she leaned so
much on her best friend, and you know, she was
you have those friends who kind of excite you and
you do things with and she had that with Penny.
And when Penny was no longer around, she was almost like,
who am I? Like it was a relationship. She was
mourning because she was like, I don't know who I
(16:28):
am without this person. I can't be honest with my
parents about my situation with my brother. Not feeling good
about herself, like not feeling like a guy would want
to hit.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
On her, Like she was just so stuck.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And it's very relatable in the sense that I think
most people will go through that in life, where you
are in a situation like this and you don't feel good,
you don't feel confident.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
But it's about hopefully you can.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Get over that hurdle, because it's hard when you're in it,
and it's hard to see and people can tell you, oh,
you should get a new job, or you should get
out of a relationship. You should do this, but until
you see it, you can't.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Yeah, and you have to be ready for it as well.
You really you could can take the advice you know
and understand what is right for you, but until your
whole body, your mind, your soul, everything is ready to
move on and go get whatever that is, you can't
do it. It seems like such an easy task. But
(17:26):
you know, talking about Penny her friend being around, I
think when we're younger and now as well, with our friendships,
our core group of friends, we feel such comfort and
there's always a bit of an adrenaline high. There's a
rush when we're doing things with those people who mean
so much and who get us our little tribes that
(17:46):
when they are missing, a part of you is missing.
So I think maybe that's where she was fading, and
she was not feeling like she was her complete self
and she didn't know how to find that part of
her again or at least mend it until she got
over this particular hurdle.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
M hmm.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And like the work challenges, like being in that environment
where you're dealing with a mainly male dominated industry or
something like that, and just you know, being told time
over time that you're not enough or you're not good enough.
Like that's why I think now with the future trying
to be more female incorporated corporations and organizations who are
(18:26):
understanding that, hopefully that is going to be a step
in the right direction for women not to feel a
certain way, like I know, feeling that way when I
was younger, and it still happens, but that's just work
that needs to be done there too.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Yeah, I mean in the workplace, I mean, honestly, it
wasn't that long ago when women A friend of mine
said that his wife experienced this when she was working
in radio as an executive assistant, and that she would
have her ass pinched by a general manager, and you know,
(19:03):
just certain types of behavior that were just accepted, and
you just and that wasn't that long ago, you know,
So we actually have come really, really far. But yeah,
there's some awful situations that that women have gone through
and trying to better themselves and try to be equal,
you know, and we're darn it, we're still not there yet.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
You know, it's still a long way to go.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
But you know, this book does explore that of what
Brooklyn went through with this company that she worked for,
you know, she would do up releases and that sort
of thing, and then it would be redone by somebody
else in the Fern firm unbeknownst to her, like she'd
find about.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Out about it afterwards.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
There was a you know, a sexual altercation within the office,
which kind of prompted her that she left right, But
then it's just it just makes you angry that these
things are even happening, and that's why she had to leave,
you know, And she wasn't standing up for herself, and
she couldn't tell her mother because her mother wouldn't. Her
mother was completely disconnected from her. She had a star son,
(20:03):
and I felt like she just didn't connect with her daughter.
Now mother daughter relationships are difficult or can be difficult,
but wow, I just felt I felt like this whole
book is sort of you know, with Brooklyn just trying
to find out who the real her is and and
having her voice. And you know, when you had a
childhood friend like Penny, where you did everything together and
(20:24):
then she goes and changes her life and you're left
and you don't know who you are, it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
This whole book is just her trying to trying to
figure out who her true self is and having having
the guts to live it. And I think that's why
she feels so immobilized and not seen and invisible.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
She just doesn't know.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
I mean there's a thing where she watches a lot
of TV and says that, you know, reality sucks, like
TV's every TV fills.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
In the gaps. You know, her life kind of leaves off.
And let's talk about like what she what she ended
up doing.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
She she hallucinated or she had all these these television
women that she watched when she was a kid, and
these four women all named Emily, different spellings, all come
visit her at different parts. Like when that first happened,
when she was talking to somebody in her room, I'm like,
what's going on?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, what is it? Hypno gogic?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
What is it called hypno gogic hallucinations?
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Hallucinations where you actually yeah, I was trying to I
did have a definition of it anyway. Yeah, it's an
actual real thing that happens to people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Like they say, seventy percent of people have experienced it.
I'm like, why haven't.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I haven't either either, Well, the doctor.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Had dreams of you know, either celebrities or people that
you've met through work and you can't figure out for
a while in the dream sequence, how do I know
this person? And then you see them the next day
or you see them down the road and they come
into play. So when there are certain dreams, the experts
(22:06):
say that it makes sense if you look at what's
going on in your life or look at the people
around you, you could see those people and how they
come into play in what might have ever been going
on in your mind at that particular time. But as
far as.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Having that happen in reality.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Live time, I've not experienced it.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
No, I've not experienced it.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Someone did say once like if you are thinking about something,
or you have an idea, like right before you fall asleep,
think about it and say how do I flush out
this idea? And apparently when you sleep, you're subconscious helps
you flush out an idea like that.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
So that's what I recently saw a Red Summer. So
with her, I think it was that same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
She's in and out, she's about to fall asleep, she's
not fully there, and then she's just the answer she's
looking for are coming to her in that form, And
it was really weird, Like up until the end, I was.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like, is this like the sixth sense? Is she not here?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Like what's happening? I thought it was really really weird,
but it was. It was interesting that they were all
Emily's but they were all these characters that were like strong,
like badass women who had done all this stuff. So
it's like that's what she was searching for. She was
searching how to be more like them, and that's what
was coming into play. But it was so interesting that
(23:24):
when she went to the doctor, it was just like
are you on drugs?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Are you doing drugs?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Like what kind of drugs are you on?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And it's like, I'm not doing drugs, Like this is happening.
So it was interesting that they were there and they
were helping guide her along the way when she was lost,
and it just kind of shows you. It's just it's
that belief or support system. So she didn't have it
in the form of friends, her mom, best friend, so
it was coming to her in different forms. So it's like,
(23:50):
however you can pull from it.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
It's just yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I never I've never read about stuff like that, and
I didn't realize seventy percent of people that's a huge number.
We need to walk around be like, are you having hypnogogics?
Speaker 5 (24:03):
They say, like seventy experience it at least once in
a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Once in a lifetime, Okay, not repetitive.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Happen with Brooklyn. But I've never even heard of the term.
So no, Yeah, you love reading. You just learn stuff.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
You learn too much, learn stuff like we can manifest
a lot of things, can't we good or bad? When
we're thinking about you know, if we're struggling with something like, oh,
it's never going to happen, never going to happen, and
then you start to think some more positive thoughts and
one or two little things fall into place, and then
you start to believe that, yeah, the good can come
(24:40):
to me too. It's not just those other people over
there who look like they've got it all going on
and they've always had the strength that I am desperately
looking for right now. So I think that we all
have the ability to do that and and gravitate towards
those good things along with the other things that that
might be weighing us down.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, I find that brain.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
I find our brains fascinating, Like it's like the most
important part of us other than our heart. But our
brains determine so much, don't they. Like they they can
they can if you don't believe in yourself, if you're
down and out, your brain will just go there, you know,
and they but it can also learn to love yourself too, right, Like,
(25:29):
it just really determines how you live your life and
how you are affected. And I just found it fascinating,
especially seeing Brooklyn's sort of arc in this book of
where she started and and what's happening to her and
and where she gets at the end. You know, she
at the end, she sort of she grabs, she grabs
(25:51):
some and she just oh wow, what she did do
with Matt?
Speaker 3 (25:55):
So mad?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Is this crazy guy? Matt is the guy who owns
the donut shop? What a repeat iticky person.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Oh it's just so bad. Yeah, we see.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
But I think after years of not being able to
stand up to men in the workplace, in those corporate jobs,
she kind of didn't know where to go.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But then she realized, this is not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
This is not like a career job. It's a fun
place I am while I'm between jobs. So she took
a stand, and then I like that she took a
stand for those younger women. Like how we're saying, like,
you know, as we get older, it's kind of our
duty to help the younger women and the younger generations
by providing that advice of like, we went through this,
and this is what I would have done if I
could go back in time. So think about these things.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Yeah, and of course we hear about sorry dev that,
we hear about what. No, you know, Kaylee and Becca
are these two young women. I'm thinking they're hot young women.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
You know.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
I don't think Matt hires anybody except you know, except that.
But we find out a little bit about them, and
we find out about Kaylee, who is really trying to
be Brooklyn's friend, you know, Brooklyn's just sort of arm's
length arm's length, you know. And we find out that
that Kayleie had a girlfriend of hers that Matt, one
(27:11):
of his friends, hit her.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
And that's the.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Whole because Kaylee was very sort of like she didn't
take any shit from Matt, you know, and you understand
why because she knows what Matt's friend did to her girlfriend, right,
and so but she's also living with that that I
don't know, I don't think her girlfriend reported it like, I, oh,
I just that's kind of stuff makes me crazy, I know, But.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
I think it comes down to, like, find a safe space,
find someone who you can share things with, because I
think so often we're so afraid of saying things or
being judged or it's hard to talk about certain things.
But the more we start to do that, we can
all relate better to each other because we've you know,
we all know someone who's gone through situations. We've gone
(27:59):
through situations, and it's yeah, it's one of those things
I always think, like sometimes why don't why don't people
speak up? Why don't we say the things we want
to say? And we're so afraid. But it's when you're
finding a safe space that's what you have to look at,
like who can be the one person in this whole
world that I can truly say whatever to without fear,
without judgment, and and go from there. But uh, yeah,
(28:23):
I really liked her journey from where she started to
where she was, and she went through that struggle like
so many do. But we got there, we got there
where she she found her power.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And what about Henry?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Henry just kept showing up at the right times.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
He did didn't he he did.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah, he was kind of dreamy.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Yeah, I think he was her.
Speaker 5 (28:48):
You know, he saw her find out later in the
book why he kept coming into the donut shop and
that he didn't actually eat donuts.
Speaker 6 (28:57):
So I thought that was really really I don't like that,
But you know, he's obviously people are complicated, relationships are complicated,
and there's definitely a lot of that.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
With with Henry. But there's one point that I really loved.
He asked her Brooklyn, to go to a museum in Victoria,
and she had kind of forgotten about how much she
loved history, and he said to her, he said, I
can hear your heart when you talk about history. And
I'm like, gosh, isn't that what we all want in
(29:28):
a partner, someone who like who sees us like when
we talk about something and our face lights up and
we're like, you know, you just and you have somebody
with you, whether it's a friend or a partner or
whomever that goes wow.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
You just I get it, you light up. I see that.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
I love that, you know, So I really I was
really pulling for those two.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah. It was yeah, me too, that moment.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Where was it Cashpe walked in. She's like, Wow, isn't
this adorable? I was like, what is he going to
happen here? And she sure gave her an earful But
the brother, the brother was the worst character of just terrible,
Like just how do you like, I get sibling rivalry?
Speaker 1 (30:09):
My brother and I we have fought along the way, but.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We have never been that nasty to each other ever,
And it's just that was a hard part of the
book for sure.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Yeah, he's so brother like we you know, with with
the girls. There were three girls in my family and
we were all kind of you know, trying to find
our space. And we did get along and we you know,
certainly share a lot of laughs today, but it never
got to the extent of where you fear, Like you
(30:39):
had that great fear and you thought, is this truly
a you know, somebody who's part of my family? Like
is you know, and lifelong fear.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
But it's also because the parents didn't shut it down.
The mom didn't shut it down, right, Like, I have
two boys and there is a lot of fighting, there's a.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Lot of stuff, but I shut it down.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I try to look at them individually, understand, And you
know where it started, how it did like you try
to do your best to be like, Okay, take some space,
do this.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
You're not trying to.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Pick a side, You're just trying to say, how do
we move from this?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
How can you too work it out? Figure it out?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Like it's it's hard to do, But if I just
supported one child over the other, you can see how
it's just it's hard. You don't have someone to talk
to you, so you just let it slide because you're like, oh,
I don't want to upset mom again and complain because
she's not going to believe me or Dad's not going
to believe me. So I think that was that was
hard that she just yeah, like if you don't get
(31:32):
that support from your parents and they're not shutting down
that bad behavior, then you know until the end, which
I was so happy that the dad was like get
out of here, and but yeah, that was that was
definitely a challenge. So you can see why that was
hard for her too.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:49):
I feel like her brother Spencer was was evil, Like
I just he you know, she would say that his
blue eyes would turn black, you know, which is basically emotionless,
and then they would go back right, So I think
he you know, he inflicted real.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Harm on her and and enjoyed doing it.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
I mean even at the very last when the barbecue
was happening and he reached behind her neck and squeezed right,
and and that's when I think Grace and Ashley, I
think they they saw it right. And so he truly
was an evil character, like I said, a sociopath. And
what's really scary for me with that particular character is
(32:30):
that he was training to be a doctor. I know,
he has no feeling for people.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Like these are the people that these are the people at.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Harm Animals, right, Like I just, I just, I really
I have to ask the author. I think, you know
why she wrote such an evil character, Like I didn't
think he had any redeeming qualities. He was just a
really awful, awful person and that will just continue fictionally
into this person's life as a medical doctor.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Like that just makes me.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Go eck or yeah yeah, right, yeah I did. It
was Grace, wasn't it Grace that came around at the party, and.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Grace I like her, she had I know.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Yeah, And there was some great characters in this book.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oh great characters.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It seems like she's real.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, and she seems like now she's found like kind
of her new group.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
She's got Henry.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Henry's friends were all very warm and accepting, and you know,
she's finally come up with the truth about a lot
of things.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
So I think she's on the right path forward.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
Yeah, And there's that scene towards the end where she
does have the you know, hallucinates Penny, And that whole
part of the story too, is just you know how
your best friend, everything that you plan to do gets
up changes right all of a sudden, this other person
wants to do something else and goes and does something
and then she's off and and she doesn't come back.
(34:01):
And it's just sort of that heartbreaking moment where she truly,
you know, feels that Penny is gone. And it almost
made me cry. I almost cried that little part, yeah,
because it's just like, oh, you know, but yeah, Brooklyn
comes through though, and with like you said, simone new group.
She's got something deep inside of her. She told her
(34:25):
mom everything, right, she told her or.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Not, or her dad. I really loved her dad.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
I felt bad for him too, because I felt like
he didn't really know his family.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
He was almost invisible seems like he's doing.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
A little reevaluating here too at the end.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Absolutely, Yeah, there's a lot going on in his life,
so I kind of.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
I'd like to see a little more of what could be. Yeah,
their relationship, a few others might be. I don't know
if there is something else to come beyond you know,
this novel, but I'd be interested in reading about it.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think it just goes to show, like overall, like
wherever you are in life, you can make those changes.
You don't have to stay stuck. Like sometimes we do
stay stuck, but every day is a new day and
it's a new chance to you know, wake up and say, Okay,
like am I happy? If I'm not, what are the
steps I need to take to get that happiness?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Because we all know.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Life is short and we all have struggles, But it's
just how are you going to pull yourself out of
those struggles.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
And truly live the life you want to lead. It's
all up to us.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Yeah, yeah, it can have great friends, really really, friendship
are big, huge, because no life is tough, but it
can be so beautiful too.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
M Yeah, it was a good book, a good read,
a good little.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Eye opener, definitely so.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Again, the name of the book, Brooklyn Thomas, isn't here
from Ali Vale, who we will actually chat with on
our next episode. Thanks for being here with us until
next time. Goodbye.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on relaxing reads.
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The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.