February 27, 2025 • 18 mins
In our latest podcast, hosts Simone, Tanya and Deb chat with the author of “Brooklyn Thomas Isn't Here” Alli Vail. Brooklyn's best friend is missing, her career is a disaster, she’s stuck living with her parents, and now her heart isn’t beating. With Alli, we discuss how women alter and shrink themselves to meet societal and familial expectations, and the serious price they pay for doing so. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cool, join us and online with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Relaxing Reads. Welcome to another episode of the
Relaxing Reads podcast where we get to chat with the
author of Brooklyn Thomas Isn't Here? Ali Vale, Hello, Ellie,
you have here, deb from Halifax, Tanya from Edmonton, and
Simone from Vancouver on the Relaxing Reads podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I'm great. It's so nice to meet you all, and
it's so fun that we're also scattered all over the place.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Exactly where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I'm in Vancouver right now?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Okay, Well, Alie Vail, you've had us on the edge
of our seat trying to piece everything together. So we
need to know where did you find the character Brooklyn Thomas.
There are so many traits and so many women can
relate to her. Was it something you had in your
mind for a while.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, it's actually really funny. I was working on something
else and I woke up one day and this woman
named Brooklyn Thomas was in my head and she worked
in a donut shop, and she didn't have a heartbeat,
and I don't I don't really know where she came from,
but she was just there, almost fully formed, and I
was like, Okay, I think I need to drop everything
I'm doing and write about Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Wow, is that one of those hypnogogic hallucinations.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I mean, that would be a great story if it was.
I would love that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That is crazy that that just came to you like that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well, I mean I think like it was, like some
of her character traits and some of the things that
happened to her definitely came from experiences I was having
in my own life or from talking to my friends
about things they were experiencing. So I think that, like
I wanted to write a character that I could relate
to and that was going through things that I felt
I was going through. So I think all these things
(01:43):
were like rattling around in my brain and then she
kind of popped out, which was great.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Oh my gosh, that is fascinating. I mean, this is
Tany and Evansanelli. You know you have Brooklyn is fascinating,
and certainly the arc that she goes through from beginning
to end, and you've also got like a pretty cool
cast of characters. And where did you come up with
the idea of having four women both with the name Emily,
(02:12):
coming to support her in a way with these hallucidations.
Where did you come up with that idea?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So basically I wanted to kind of have these various
symptoms and this isn't giving anything away of like Brooklyn's
progression and her becoming more dead, and I just had
this sense that, like, Brooklyn was a really lonely person,
but you can't have a lonely person in a book
with no one to talk to. There needs to be
people that she's interacting with. But the point of the
(02:39):
story is that she's super isolated and super alone, and
so I had to give her someone to talk to.
And slowly these Emily's started coming to me. And I
was also thinking a lot about how we rely on
TV to kind of fill some holds, and like if
we're lonely, we flip on the TV. It fills up
noise in our apartments. And yeah, I thought that they
(03:01):
were a good stand in to kind of meet the need,
the emotional needs that Brooklyn was feeling because all of
them play a slightly different role or have a slightly
different connection to Brooklyn, and it kind of let her
kind of work through these various aspects of her life,
but not on her own, because she had these kind
of mysterious women named Emily helping her along.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It was really interesting because when the first Emily showed up,
I was like, what is going on here? And then
it got to the point where I was like, I
really love these visitations, you know, these hallucinations of all
these different these different characters, and they're all in their
way trying to support Brooklyn and have her become a
real person again.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Yeah, I think we all kind of hope for some
magic right in our lives sometimes, and I think that
this was Brooklyn's a little bit of magic mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And obviously, you know, it was so nice to see
the progression of Brooklyn's journey from the start of the
book to where we ended up. And there's a lot
of topics in this book that you talk about. There's
the mental health, there's the heart health, a lot of pain.
Why do you think Brooklyn's story is an important one
to share?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well? I think on the health things specifically, there is
a condition that someone has in the book that gets
overlooked by her doctors. And I was having a lot
of conversations with my friends who were having some health issues,
and we were all like, we go to the doctor,
and the doctor's just like it's anxiety, and they kind
of were blowing people off. So I wanted to address
(04:32):
kind of this idea that like women aren't hysterics when
they go to the doctor, like they have real problems.
That was one thing I wanted to think about. And
I think that like we kind of forget that people
are going through a lot in their lives, but they're
also expected to do so much in their lives, like
they're expected to go to work and they're expected to
contribute and be functioning. But you know, sometimes it's just
(04:54):
too much and we all need a little break. And
I kind of wanted to look at that and explore
it in a way that was a little hands off.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I think it's awesome that you've done this and
there is a focus on it, because if we are
not well, we ignore it sometimes, especially women versus men.
You know, if a man's sick, because he'll tell you,
he'll tell the whole man called the whole workplace, right,
But women, we have been built to believe that we
(05:21):
can handle as much as you know is being thrown
at us every day, so we tend to ignore the
things that we know our body is trying to tell us.
So I think it's important that we realize that we
don't have to ignore it, and we can bring up
these topics that are so very important to our overall
health totally.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And Brooklyn, you know that she feels a lot of
pressure because she's not doesn't feel like she's meeting these
like unspoken expectations that the workplace and the world and
society and her family have put on her. And she
just feels like she's failing. She doesn't look at it
and go, oh no, actually the expectations are wrong. I
really was interested in that too.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And even with the workplace situation that you put Brooklyn in,
you know, working for Lawrence Communications and the struggles that
she had there just not you know, writing press releases
and things only to have them rewritten, the sexual misconduct
that was happening within the office, to the point that
she felt like she had to go and do a
(06:24):
job so beneath her because it was she felt the
only thing that she could do. And even then she
was working for that horrible matt Slimy Matte. Have you
known somebody who has been in that situation where they
just sort of like they just opt out, like they
just go, yeah, I have a degree, but I can't
do this anymore, and I'm going to go sell donuts,
(06:46):
you know.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I think that Actually, I feel like this is a
common experience. So when I was working on this, my
friends and I were all kind of in our early thirties,
and we all had kind of careers in tech and
these kind of fancy industries. But we were all exhausted.
We were so burnt out. We were not progressing as
far in our careers as we felt we should be.
(07:06):
And it wasn't because we weren't competent. Lots of us
were amazingly competent, but like there is still a lot
of sexism in workplaces, and there's a lot of microaggression,
and like a lot of industries still And so this
was a conversation I was having with so many people
just like we got we did these careers of some
of us fell into these careers by accident. These careers
(07:28):
aren't really serving us financially or creatively, or emotionally or spiritually,
and we're just kind of stuck. And like we just
wanted to we wanted to be able to opt out,
and we wanted to be able to do something different,
but it's so hard to start over, and it's so
hard to kind of figure out what that is once
you've been so a meshed in this specific culture. So
(07:49):
it was just a conversation I was having and experiencing,
and I just wanted to read about it and work
through my thoughts about it, and I couldn't find anywhere
to read about it at that time. So I just
was like, I'm gonna figure it out myself. I'm gonna
write about it myself and see what I can drop
from that.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I love that. So it's like, you know, you're talking
about a lot of these stories or things you've shared
with your friends and even for readers. What's the response
been like for your book from those friends or people
who have read it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Well, I had a hilarious response. Someone was someone put
their hand up in our little event we were having
and she's like, Matt, I know Matt, I one hundred
percent no Matt, And I just thought that was so funny,
Like she just said she knews and I was like, wait,
does she know him because he's not real or she
knows someone like him like this? This is a really
(08:38):
funny moment because she was so insistent, and I was like,
this is hilarious because she was like so fervent about it.
And I have heard from people that they, you know,
they felt seen because they've experienced this stuff. And it
sometimes is hard to talk about all of these things
that happen at work and our careers because we put
(08:58):
a lot of pride in them and we don't want
to admit that, you know, we're vulnerable about it sometimes.
So yeah, I've had really positive feedback. People felt like
they could really see themselves in some of their experiences
in the characters and in the workplaces.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah. We were talking about some of the characters and
wondering if there's if there's room in your mind, is
there another space to continue Brooklyn story along with some
of these other people who who came out in the
supporting corner in the end.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh, that's so funny that you ask about that. I
feel like that's a question. I've had a lot people
are like, what is the next book about Brooklyn Thomas?
And I actually haven't planned a sequel for it, but
I do feel that, you know, you never know, these
things come back around, and I think that like, these
themes are really important to me, like what happens to
(09:51):
women at work, how we cope, like how we're treated
at work, Like these are things that are so important
to me. So even if there's not another Brooklyn Thomas
book or something related to the characters in the book,
that those themes are going to show up in my other.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Work on you know, also and eat a box of
donuts and talk about where the characters might end up.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, that would be great. I love some ideas well.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I think that's just it because now we saw like
she kind of didn't have that support system, you know,
her best friend wasn't around. She gets the support with
the hallucinations, and then the struggle with that relationship with
her mother where she couldn't talk about her brother, like
there were so many things, and now it's like she's
finally gotten through that. So life is getting good. So
I think that's why we're like it would be nice
for her journey to continue. Growing up here like born
(10:37):
and raised in Vancouver. I loved all the vancouverisms, like
talking about the Chief and Strathcona. I actually had to
google the bridge named after the dead politician. I know
it's the Arthur lang Bridge now, but I was like
which bridge, Wait, what are we talking about? But when
it comes to the donut shops, was there one that
you modeled it after in Vancouver or came to mind
when writing the story, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I definitely I spent a lot of time in donut
shops over the last couple of years, and so I
guess maybe very loosely modeled it after a donut shop.
But I tried to put my own spin on it.
And certainly there's nothing against donut shop owners in real life.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, you don't want them writing nasty letters too.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
No, no, And I'm allergic to wheat, So like I would,
you know, order a donut and have a coffee, but
like I wouldn't always eat the donut.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And I saw one of your in your previous interviews
you said you really enjoyed coming up with all the
donut names. Where did they all come from?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, that was super fun because I feel like donuts
and Vancouver were so like funny and trendy about our
food sometimes that like I kind of wanted to make
it a little bit absurd and kind of be like, really,
do we need these crazy flavors of donuts? What's wrong
with the old fashioned blaze, you know, But yeah, it
was just really fun to like put together really weird
flavors and I wanted to push the envelope. But every
(11:59):
now be like, oh, that sounds really good, Like I
wish I could have that flavor right now.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I thought the best was when when Matt decided to
make donut sandwich.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, yeah, I could always say some, but not yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, it's a little bit queazy making You're like, do
I need this amount of grease in my stomach at
this time?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
No, Greece is all good, especially at certain times.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I did have a question for you, though. I'm just
going back a little bit in terms of the characters
that you developed, and there's a whole bunch of different
characters in this book, and I wanted to ask about
Spencer because it wasn't just he wasn't just the irritating brother.
He was actually really harmful. And I'm just wondering, like
(12:54):
why you wrote a character like him, because I actually
felt like he was an evil character and it really
it upset me that he was going to be a
doctor when he actually had no feeling for people at all.
So what is your take on Spencer, Like how did
he come about.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Well, I was reading a lot of books about sociopaths
and narcissists. I like true crime, So I was always
reading about kind of these people who are in these
positions of power or positions of that we just typically respect.
Like you know, there's that idea that like a lot
of not a lot of hirefighters, but like firefighters can
also be arsonists, right, Like, it's not completely unheard of.
(13:32):
So I was really curious about this. And I've met
a few people over the years that definitely had made
my radar go out. And what's interesting to me is
people that I am very suspicious of and have just met,
like either as acquaintances or people I've met once or twice,
they'll be working in this field that allows them a
lot of power over vulnerable people. And you know, there's
(13:53):
a lot of research about how certain types of like
antisocial behaviors they do become doctors or so or astronauts
because they have kind of god complexes. And I thought
this was fascinating to have this juxtaposition because also a
lot of these people who are you know, narcissists or sociopaths,
they may appear one way to most people and most
(14:16):
people might be like, that person's lovely, but they'll target
all of their behavior at one person, and then everyone
thinks that that person is one with the problem. And
it happens in workplaces, and it happens in society, and
it happens in politics, and so I was just really
fascinated by this juxtaposition. And I mean, every book means
a villain. I think, you know, Matt is a villain,
(14:38):
but he's a villain we expect because everyone has worked
with a Matt or had a boss as a Mat.
So I wanted something that was a little bit more sinister,
I think. And also, like in a family structure, we
don't often think about misogyny or sexism or how that
impacts the people in the family. And I thought that
that was an interesting thing to explore as well, because
(14:59):
there's so much stuff that happens in families that definitely
no one talks about.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Absolutely. Yeah, well it definitely came across in the book.
Yeah I'm evile, No he was, yeah, oh yeah he was.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
We all really enjoyed the book. It was definitely an
eye opener. It just kind of makes you think, like
we all go through things in life where you can
get stuck in a rut or you feel like you
don't really have the support system you need. But it's
all kind of up to us to see how we
get out of it, and you know, how we can
change our life. So it was really neat to see her,
Brooklyn's life moving in a positive direction. So Ellie, what's
(15:40):
next for you? What are you working on right now
or what are you most excited about?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, right now I'm working on Well, I just finished
the thriller that my agent is trying to sell, and
to keep with my themes, it's about a woman who
works in a tech company and all her female coworkers
start disappearing. So I think that that is kind of
a fun take on the tech industry. And I'm also
wrapping up another thriller. I was actually editing it when
(16:06):
you called, so I'm hoping to finish that one up
this year as well. And then has a cult in it,
because who doesn't love a cult?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Ooh, we're here for it. We're unstuck now because of
Brooklyn Thomas, but we're here for the cult and the thriller.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Wonderful and yeah, I think I think they're gonna be
fun projects. And I'm excited about them. And yeah, I
do hope that Brooklyn Thomas like does remind people that,
you know, we can make changes in our lives, because
that was really important to me too, Like, no matter
how hard things get, like we have a little bit
of control and we just need to take it, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, there's definitely hope there for sure, we're talking about
it saying that. Yet, yes, you can do that if you,
you know, nurture those relationships, you know, your friends and
your family, because they just they can take us through
so much and help us when we think that we're
not help we can't help ourselves, that we have a
strong group around us to pull us up, you.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Know, so important, so important.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, thank you so much for your time today, Ali.
We really enjoyed reading Brooklyn Thomas isn't here, and we
look forward to your upcoming reads.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Thank you so much. I really did have a great time,
and you ask such wonderful questions, but I don't always
get asked, so I really do appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Thanks Alli. You know I've done the gross grind throwing
up halfway up, but I've never done like the chief.
I've never it was when my phase where I thought
all I should eat for breakfast was fruit, which you
can't go do a physical activity on just fruit.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Sugar.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And then I went and had dim sum after we
came back. Ohally, I've never done never, I've never done
the Chief.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I've never done the Chief either.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah. I think I got at a squamish'm bc.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, for sure, we'll do it together. Thank you to
you for joining us on another episode of Relaxing Reads
until next time, hie.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on Relaxing Reads
Cool, join us and online with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to Relaxing Reads. Welcome to another episode of the
Relaxing Reads podcast where we get to chat with the
author of Brooklyn Thomas Isn't Here? Ali Vale, Hello, Ellie,
you have here, deb from Halifax, Tanya from Edmonton, and
Simone from Vancouver on the Relaxing Reads podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:23):
I'm great. It's so nice to meet you all, and
it's so fun that we're also scattered all over the place.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Exactly where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I'm in Vancouver right now?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Okay, Well, Alie Vail, you've had us on the edge
of our seat trying to piece everything together. So we
need to know where did you find the character Brooklyn Thomas.
There are so many traits and so many women can
relate to her. Was it something you had in your
mind for a while.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Well, it's actually really funny. I was working on something
else and I woke up one day and this woman
named Brooklyn Thomas was in my head and she worked
in a donut shop, and she didn't have a heartbeat,
and I don't I don't really know where she came from,
but she was just there, almost fully formed, and I
was like, Okay, I think I need to drop everything
I'm doing and write about Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Wow, is that one of those hypnogogic hallucinations.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I mean, that would be a great story if it was.
I would love that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That is crazy that that just came to you like that.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Well, I mean I think like it was, like some
of her character traits and some of the things that
happened to her definitely came from experiences I was having
in my own life or from talking to my friends
about things they were experiencing. So I think that, like
I wanted to write a character that I could relate
to and that was going through things that I felt
I was going through. So I think all these things
(01:43):
were like rattling around in my brain and then she
kind of popped out, which was great.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Oh my gosh, that is fascinating. I mean, this is
Tany and Evansanelli. You know you have Brooklyn is fascinating,
and certainly the arc that she goes through from beginning
to end, and you've also got like a pretty cool
cast of characters. And where did you come up with
the idea of having four women both with the name Emily,
(02:12):
coming to support her in a way with these hallucidations.
Where did you come up with that idea?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
So basically I wanted to kind of have these various
symptoms and this isn't giving anything away of like Brooklyn's
progression and her becoming more dead, and I just had
this sense that, like, Brooklyn was a really lonely person,
but you can't have a lonely person in a book
with no one to talk to. There needs to be
people that she's interacting with. But the point of the
(02:39):
story is that she's super isolated and super alone, and
so I had to give her someone to talk to.
And slowly these Emily's started coming to me. And I
was also thinking a lot about how we rely on
TV to kind of fill some holds, and like if
we're lonely, we flip on the TV. It fills up
noise in our apartments. And yeah, I thought that they
(03:01):
were a good stand in to kind of meet the need,
the emotional needs that Brooklyn was feeling because all of
them play a slightly different role or have a slightly
different connection to Brooklyn, and it kind of let her
kind of work through these various aspects of her life,
but not on her own, because she had these kind
of mysterious women named Emily helping her along.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It was really interesting because when the first Emily showed up,
I was like, what is going on here? And then
it got to the point where I was like, I
really love these visitations, you know, these hallucinations of all
these different these different characters, and they're all in their
way trying to support Brooklyn and have her become a
real person again.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
Yeah, I think we all kind of hope for some
magic right in our lives sometimes, and I think that
this was Brooklyn's a little bit of magic mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
And obviously, you know, it was so nice to see
the progression of Brooklyn's journey from the start of the
book to where we ended up. And there's a lot
of topics in this book that you talk about. There's
the mental health, there's the heart health, a lot of pain.
Why do you think Brooklyn's story is an important one
to share?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well? I think on the health things specifically, there is
a condition that someone has in the book that gets
overlooked by her doctors. And I was having a lot
of conversations with my friends who were having some health issues,
and we were all like, we go to the doctor,
and the doctor's just like it's anxiety, and they kind
of were blowing people off. So I wanted to address
(04:32):
kind of this idea that like women aren't hysterics when
they go to the doctor, like they have real problems.
That was one thing I wanted to think about. And
I think that like we kind of forget that people
are going through a lot in their lives, but they're
also expected to do so much in their lives, like
they're expected to go to work and they're expected to
contribute and be functioning. But you know, sometimes it's just
(04:54):
too much and we all need a little break. And
I kind of wanted to look at that and explore
it in a way that was a little hands off.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I think it's awesome that you've done this and
there is a focus on it, because if we are
not well, we ignore it sometimes, especially women versus men.
You know, if a man's sick, because he'll tell you,
he'll tell the whole man called the whole workplace, right,
But women, we have been built to believe that we
(05:21):
can handle as much as you know is being thrown
at us every day, so we tend to ignore the
things that we know our body is trying to tell us.
So I think it's important that we realize that we
don't have to ignore it, and we can bring up
these topics that are so very important to our overall
health totally.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
And Brooklyn, you know that she feels a lot of
pressure because she's not doesn't feel like she's meeting these
like unspoken expectations that the workplace and the world and
society and her family have put on her. And she
just feels like she's failing. She doesn't look at it
and go, oh no, actually the expectations are wrong. I
really was interested in that too.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And even with the workplace situation that you put Brooklyn in,
you know, working for Lawrence Communications and the struggles that
she had there just not you know, writing press releases
and things only to have them rewritten, the sexual misconduct
that was happening within the office, to the point that
she felt like she had to go and do a
(06:24):
job so beneath her because it was she felt the
only thing that she could do. And even then she
was working for that horrible matt Slimy Matte. Have you
known somebody who has been in that situation where they
just sort of like they just opt out, like they
just go, yeah, I have a degree, but I can't
do this anymore, and I'm going to go sell donuts,
(06:46):
you know.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
I think that Actually, I feel like this is a
common experience. So when I was working on this, my
friends and I were all kind of in our early thirties,
and we all had kind of careers in tech and
these kind of fancy industries. But we were all exhausted.
We were so burnt out. We were not progressing as
far in our careers as we felt we should be.
(07:06):
And it wasn't because we weren't competent. Lots of us
were amazingly competent, but like there is still a lot
of sexism in workplaces, and there's a lot of microaggression,
and like a lot of industries still And so this
was a conversation I was having with so many people
just like we got we did these careers of some
of us fell into these careers by accident. These careers
(07:28):
aren't really serving us financially or creatively, or emotionally or spiritually,
and we're just kind of stuck. And like we just
wanted to we wanted to be able to opt out,
and we wanted to be able to do something different,
but it's so hard to start over, and it's so
hard to kind of figure out what that is once
you've been so a meshed in this specific culture. So
(07:49):
it was just a conversation I was having and experiencing,
and I just wanted to read about it and work
through my thoughts about it, and I couldn't find anywhere
to read about it at that time. So I just
was like, I'm gonna figure it out myself. I'm gonna
write about it myself and see what I can drop
from that.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
I love that. So it's like, you know, you're talking
about a lot of these stories or things you've shared
with your friends and even for readers. What's the response
been like for your book from those friends or people
who have read it.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Well, I had a hilarious response. Someone was someone put
their hand up in our little event we were having
and she's like, Matt, I know Matt, I one hundred
percent no Matt, And I just thought that was so funny,
Like she just said she knews and I was like, wait,
does she know him because he's not real or she
knows someone like him like this? This is a really
(08:38):
funny moment because she was so insistent, and I was like,
this is hilarious because she was like so fervent about it.
And I have heard from people that they, you know,
they felt seen because they've experienced this stuff. And it
sometimes is hard to talk about all of these things
that happen at work and our careers because we put
(08:58):
a lot of pride in them and we don't want
to admit that, you know, we're vulnerable about it sometimes.
So yeah, I've had really positive feedback. People felt like
they could really see themselves in some of their experiences
in the characters and in the workplaces.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah. We were talking about some of the characters and
wondering if there's if there's room in your mind, is
there another space to continue Brooklyn story along with some
of these other people who who came out in the
supporting corner in the end.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Oh, that's so funny that you ask about that. I
feel like that's a question. I've had a lot people
are like, what is the next book about Brooklyn Thomas?
And I actually haven't planned a sequel for it, but
I do feel that, you know, you never know, these
things come back around, and I think that like, these
themes are really important to me, like what happens to
(09:51):
women at work, how we cope, like how we're treated
at work, Like these are things that are so important
to me. So even if there's not another Brooklyn Thomas
book or something related to the characters in the book,
that those themes are going to show up in my other.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Work on you know, also and eat a box of
donuts and talk about where the characters might end up.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, that would be great. I love some ideas well.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I think that's just it because now we saw like
she kind of didn't have that support system, you know,
her best friend wasn't around. She gets the support with
the hallucinations, and then the struggle with that relationship with
her mother where she couldn't talk about her brother, like
there were so many things, and now it's like she's
finally gotten through that. So life is getting good. So
I think that's why we're like it would be nice
for her journey to continue. Growing up here like born
(10:37):
and raised in Vancouver. I loved all the vancouverisms, like
talking about the Chief and Strathcona. I actually had to
google the bridge named after the dead politician. I know
it's the Arthur lang Bridge now, but I was like
which bridge, Wait, what are we talking about? But when
it comes to the donut shops, was there one that
you modeled it after in Vancouver or came to mind
when writing the story, Well.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I definitely I spent a lot of time in donut
shops over the last couple of years, and so I
guess maybe very loosely modeled it after a donut shop.
But I tried to put my own spin on it.
And certainly there's nothing against donut shop owners in real life.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, you don't want them writing nasty letters too.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
No, no, And I'm allergic to wheat, So like I would,
you know, order a donut and have a coffee, but
like I wouldn't always eat the donut.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And I saw one of your in your previous interviews
you said you really enjoyed coming up with all the
donut names. Where did they all come from?
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, that was super fun because I feel like donuts
and Vancouver were so like funny and trendy about our
food sometimes that like I kind of wanted to make
it a little bit absurd and kind of be like, really,
do we need these crazy flavors of donuts? What's wrong
with the old fashioned blaze, you know, But yeah, it
was just really fun to like put together really weird
flavors and I wanted to push the envelope. But every
(11:59):
now be like, oh, that sounds really good, Like I
wish I could have that flavor right now.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I thought the best was when when Matt decided to
make donut sandwich.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, yeah, I could always say some, but not yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, it's a little bit queazy making You're like, do
I need this amount of grease in my stomach at
this time?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
No, Greece is all good, especially at certain times.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I did have a question for you, though. I'm just
going back a little bit in terms of the characters
that you developed, and there's a whole bunch of different
characters in this book, and I wanted to ask about
Spencer because it wasn't just he wasn't just the irritating brother.
He was actually really harmful. And I'm just wondering, like
(12:54):
why you wrote a character like him, because I actually
felt like he was an evil character and it really
it upset me that he was going to be a
doctor when he actually had no feeling for people at all.
So what is your take on Spencer, Like how did
he come about.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Well, I was reading a lot of books about sociopaths
and narcissists. I like true crime, So I was always
reading about kind of these people who are in these
positions of power or positions of that we just typically respect.
Like you know, there's that idea that like a lot
of not a lot of hirefighters, but like firefighters can
also be arsonists, right, Like, it's not completely unheard of.
(13:32):
So I was really curious about this. And I've met
a few people over the years that definitely had made
my radar go out. And what's interesting to me is
people that I am very suspicious of and have just met,
like either as acquaintances or people I've met once or twice,
they'll be working in this field that allows them a
lot of power over vulnerable people. And you know, there's
(13:53):
a lot of research about how certain types of like
antisocial behaviors they do become doctors or so or astronauts
because they have kind of god complexes. And I thought
this was fascinating to have this juxtaposition because also a
lot of these people who are you know, narcissists or sociopaths,
they may appear one way to most people and most
(14:16):
people might be like, that person's lovely, but they'll target
all of their behavior at one person, and then everyone
thinks that that person is one with the problem. And
it happens in workplaces, and it happens in society, and
it happens in politics, and so I was just really
fascinated by this juxtaposition. And I mean, every book means
a villain. I think, you know, Matt is a villain,
(14:38):
but he's a villain we expect because everyone has worked
with a Matt or had a boss as a Mat.
So I wanted something that was a little bit more sinister,
I think. And also, like in a family structure, we
don't often think about misogyny or sexism or how that
impacts the people in the family. And I thought that
that was an interesting thing to explore as well, because
(14:59):
there's so much stuff that happens in families that definitely
no one talks about.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Absolutely. Yeah, well it definitely came across in the book.
Yeah I'm evile, No he was, yeah, oh yeah he was.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
We all really enjoyed the book. It was definitely an
eye opener. It just kind of makes you think, like
we all go through things in life where you can
get stuck in a rut or you feel like you
don't really have the support system you need. But it's
all kind of up to us to see how we
get out of it, and you know, how we can
change our life. So it was really neat to see her,
Brooklyn's life moving in a positive direction. So Ellie, what's
(15:40):
next for you? What are you working on right now
or what are you most excited about?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, right now I'm working on Well, I just finished
the thriller that my agent is trying to sell, and
to keep with my themes, it's about a woman who
works in a tech company and all her female coworkers
start disappearing. So I think that that is kind of
a fun take on the tech industry. And I'm also
wrapping up another thriller. I was actually editing it when
(16:06):
you called, so I'm hoping to finish that one up
this year as well. And then has a cult in it,
because who doesn't love a cult?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Ooh, we're here for it. We're unstuck now because of
Brooklyn Thomas, but we're here for the cult and the thriller.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Wonderful and yeah, I think I think they're gonna be
fun projects. And I'm excited about them. And yeah, I
do hope that Brooklyn Thomas like does remind people that,
you know, we can make changes in our lives, because
that was really important to me too, Like, no matter
how hard things get, like we have a little bit
of control and we just need to take it, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, there's definitely hope there for sure, we're talking about
it saying that. Yet, yes, you can do that if you,
you know, nurture those relationships, you know, your friends and
your family, because they just they can take us through
so much and help us when we think that we're
not help we can't help ourselves, that we have a
strong group around us to pull us up, you.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Know, so important, so important.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, thank you so much for your time today, Ali.
We really enjoyed reading Brooklyn Thomas isn't here, and we
look forward to your upcoming reads.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Thank you so much. I really did have a great time,
and you ask such wonderful questions, but I don't always
get asked, so I really do appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Thanks Alli. You know I've done the gross grind throwing
up halfway up, but I've never done like the chief.
I've never it was when my phase where I thought
all I should eat for breakfast was fruit, which you
can't go do a physical activity on just fruit.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Sugar.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And then I went and had dim sum after we
came back. Ohally, I've never done never, I've never done
the Chief.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
I've never done the Chief either.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah. I think I got at a squamish'm bc.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah, for sure, we'll do it together. Thank you to
you for joining us on another episode of Relaxing Reads
until next time, hie.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on Relaxing Reads
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