June 16, 2025 • 22 mins
In our latest episode, hosts Simone, Tanya and Deb talk to the author of “The Lightning Bottles” Marissa Stapley. We chat about the 90's grunge era music that influenced the book and the characters and she shares some other exciting updates with us.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Join us and unwined with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to relaxing reads.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Hi, it's Devin Halifax.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Hia's Amona in Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (00:09):
Hey, it's Tanya and Edmonton.
Speaker 4 (00:11):
We are so excited to interview Marissa Stapley today, the
author of The Lightning Bottles deb Why don't you give
us a little synopsis on the book before we get started.
Speaker 6 (00:20):
Okay, our latest read, The Lightning Bottles comes from Marissa Stapley,
and it's all about love, drugs, and rock and roll.
Jane was once half of a famous duo from the
Seattle grunge era of the nineties. Years later, she became
perhaps the most hated and least understood woman in music.
She was never as popular with fans as her bandmate
and soulmate Elijah. They were on a high, at the
(00:43):
top of their game, and then that rise to fame
came crashing down. Her husband and partner in music abruptly disappeared,
and through the public hatred, all Jane really wanted was
to retreat. What she doesn't anticipate is the bombshell that
awaits her at her new home in the German countryside.
There's a super fan secret messages for Jane, and so
(01:05):
much in between. Across Continent road trip about two misunderstood
outsiders brought together by their shared love of music. Hi, Marissa, So,
Marissa Stappley, everything you throw our way, we are absolutely loving.
You are one of our favorites, not just the world's
one of the world's favorites. And you've got best sellers
(01:26):
out there. But this is so interesting, this one because
just like a music concert, this book is an experience.
I mean, we're all big music fans. Obviously you are
as well. So how did you come up with the idea?
And tell us about the musicians or the industry reps
that you chat it with before writing?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, So I feel like I always say, like The
Lightning Bottles is kind of it's the book of my heart,
Like they're all they were all, you know, pieces of me.
But this one is that, like teen It was born
in my you know, grunge bedroom where I grew up
in Stouville, And you know, I was music obsessed and
it was a small town, so there really weren't a
(02:08):
lot of other people who were.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
As into the kind of music that I was into
as I was.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, you know, I like my mixtapes were like a
work of art, and they like I would do things
like if I liked a guy, I would like create
a mixtape and sort of like drop it at his
feet to like, you know, make sure like I'm and
like if he picked it up, and probably chances are
he'd be like you dropped this and keep walking right.
(02:33):
But in my mind, like here's my soul, Like this
is who I am, you know, so so that that
was who I was, and and you know I carry
that that that fourteen fifteen year old around and also
at that age, something you know, hugely formative in my
teenage mind happened, which was the death of Kurt Cobain,
(02:54):
and that really stuck with me. And I think the
other side of that is, you know, I was a
big fan of Shnad O'Connor. I was also a big
fan of Courtney Love and whole and like, these are
women who were also vilified and kind of pushed to
the margins.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And I don't think I processed that at the.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Time, But when I read Shnad O'Connor's memoir when it
came out five years or four years ago, and it
just caused me to start thinking about the way women
had been treated and kind of under what I felt
like was my watch.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Because I was so into that scene.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I just started thinking this book that, by the way,
like it had been living with me for a while,
and these characters and I wasn't quite sure what to
do with them. I just thought like, I've got to
write this, like this feels so important.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So that's where the idea came from.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So I've mentioned Courtney Love and Shnead O'Connor are really
the muses for Jane, and then all of the you know,
many female artists who I dedicate.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
The book to from that era.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And also I thought about Kurt Cobain, but I did
a lot of research about him, and it was just
it was so difficult and sad, and I think the
addiction and men illness, there's a level there that like,
it's just it's so complicated. So I also started thinking
about Jeff Buckley, who also died at twenty seven, and
that's really the muse for Elijah's voice. So while all
(04:13):
of this was kind of coming together in my mind,
I turned to Alan Cross, who's the Canadian music X
you know, alternative music expert. I spoke with him when
the book was just in its conceptual stages, just to
ask for insight into the scene because I have my
memories that you know, he has all these facts.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
And then he was just very generous with his time.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
We spoke a few times, and he actually read an
early copy of the book around the time when it
was getting copy edited, just to make sure there were
no factual errors, which I'm very proud to.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Say there were no. I mean he found like ten.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They were very small, and I was like, oh yeah,
but I was so proud of that, you know, that
getting and having access to him, and he has some
really great stories too share as well.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
He certainly does. That was actually one of the things
I was going to ask you because in your acknowledgments
she said that you know, you had spoken to Alan
Cross and the only thing he said to you was quote,
get it right. Yeah, So how did how did that
sort of like help you formulate this story? Like how
did that those words help you? Kind of?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And with all respect to Alan too, I feel like
I also saw it as a challenge. I was like,
I can do that, Like I'm going to do that.
I can totally do that. But you know, and also
I took to heart what he meant, because there are
so many music books that are released and some things
are glossed over or facts are not you know, correct,
(05:37):
and I think it's such a it's a it's an
interesting scene and this particular era was really important. So
it was really important to me to try to get
that right. Like one of the stories that Alan told
me very early on that stuck with me was but
I asked him, like, tell me, what was it like
as a DJ to play Smells Like Teen Spirit for
(05:58):
the first time on the radio? And he told me
that he received a CD from you know, the record
companies would send these CDs out, Like I feel like
I have to explain this to my teenage kids, like
how this would.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Work, and I like excited about that you can't get.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Anywhere else, and Smells Like Teen Spirit was on it,
and I'm going to say, for the sake of storytelling,
it was track four. And his program director came in
and was like, hey, you may want to check out
track four, like it's a pretty it's a good one.
So he decided to play it. The album hadn't come
out yet. I think it was releasing that Tuesday. Let's
say this was a Friday, so I don't know, I'm timelines.
(06:35):
Maybe I shouldn't be focusing on But he played the
song and he said he went to get a coffee.
By the time he came back, the lines were completely jammed.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
They were lit up. People were calling me like what
is that? What is that? And it continued throughout that day.
The album then came out that Tuesday. He did club
Energy I think was Energy on Friday, that like alternative
club out near the airport, which I think all people
of a certain age went to dance to alternate a
frock at and he said that by Friday, everyone in
(07:03):
that club knew the words to that song and they
were all like mashing and it was just he was like,
I've never seen anything like that before or since. And
my editors would often say to me, like this stratospheric
rise to fame you're describing like it doesn't feel realistic,
And I was like, but this is what really happened,
Like this is how it happened with Nirvana. And I
really wanted to use that because I think that's part
(07:26):
of what the problem was for Kurt Cobain was like
snap your fingers and all of the sudden, people are
singing all the words too. Also, what wasn't the song
that you expected was going to be a hit? I
feel like I have so much to say.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But also I listened to Courtney Love on Rob Harville's
The Sixty Songs that Explain the Nineties, and Courtney Love
does an episode and the thing that she said that
stuck with me, and she's talking about Curtis. She's like,
I often wonder what would have happened because he didn't
want that song on the album, So like what would
have happened? Or if come as you are in the
(08:01):
first single and it you know, like where would we
be now? It's just interesting to think about because that
song tortured him for some reason, so you know, it's
just so it's so there's so much story there and
so yeah, like the question was like to get it right,
it's to get it right is to really fully immerse yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I did, but I was fourteen and now it's.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You're giving me chills just talking about that because we
were talking about like we discussed that in our conversation
about the deaths that affected us, and of course Kirk
Cobaine came up and me being in Vancouver, so close
to Seattle. It just felt like even more of a
local connection, even though it's not really, but it's like,
those are the things that sit with you through your life.
Is when you remember those moments and then there's such
(08:45):
a big loss and there's that tragedy, and then you
listen to that music and it takes you there. And
even now when it came up to I think it
was like recently the thirtieth anniversary of his passing, and
then you hear that song again, it just takes you
back and you're living like that ten year old or
fourteen year old girl all over again experiencing it. So
it's nice to hear you kind of put that all
(09:06):
into perspective on how it came to be in the novel.
And then the other thing was the chat rooms. We
went back to the world of chat rooms. Did you
ever meet a love through a chat room or make
a connection like that? Like I feel like I was
meeting all the weirdos and creepers. I never met any totally.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh yeah, totally all the creepers. Like and interestingly, some
people are like, oh, you mean like aol. I'm like no,
Like this was pre like this was like literally just
like words have come up on your screen. It was
like a black screen with yellow writing, and like the
most you could do is if somebody used all the
like symbols to they could you know, some really smart
techy people could create like a face or something. And
(09:44):
it was definitely the creepers. Like I never really, I
never met a love, but I still I did have
a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I lived in stokehl and he lived in Lindsay, which
really isn't that far.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
But we had to write letters, so I did have
that letter writing experience and I still have those letters.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And actually it's very sweet, right, It's just very sweet
and innocent.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And also I remember that feeling like when you could,
you know, it was a long distance to talk, so
we'd write letters and that and feeling of anticipation. I
really loved those scenes in the book. But yeah, the
chat room, I think people were connecting that way, and
I think the connections over like it was connections.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Over like video games.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But also I think music and I think that the
internet has changed so much, right like that the nineties
was the era we didn't realize what we were on
the edge of.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It was like the Industrial Revolution level change for the world, but.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That those innocent, sort of first days where it was
like you could be Jane sitting in your bedroom feeling
totally alone and unseen, and you could find someone else
who was like the same weird as you. And that's
kind of a nice, little like thing about the Internet
that still does happen, even with all of the kind
(10:58):
of upste like horse out of the barns where it's.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Just we We were talking about the chat room as well,
but Tanya and I both you know, come from different
parts of the country, but both grew up in rural area,
so we didn't do the chat room thing.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
We wrote letters and I had a bunch of pen pals.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
But then when I moved to the city and went
to university in Halifax, and that's where I was sort
of introduced to it as well.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And I was telling the ladies. Actually, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
If you were aware that Halifax was actually known as
Seattle North in the nineties because of the bands that
were coming out of here and there was a huge
grunge scene and yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It was. It was a great time to be.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Going to university here and the downtown scene was just
kind of kind of wild but wonderful too.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I did not know that. I that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I have that nineties that book have not been the
same the whole like this, like it's like this huge
doorstopper about the Canadian nineties alternative music scene. But I
just was kind of I didn't end up reading the
whole thing during research, so I think I might have
missed that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
That's so cool. I wish i'd known that. I would
have had.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Sloan Is it like Sloan from Halifax?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Was it?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
I was going to say Sloan, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Yeah, yeah, and Joel Plaska who has his own band,
but he was in a couple of different bands, but
it was yeah, around the same time.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So yeah, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's cool. That's cool.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I wonder Marissa, like, you know, just reading I totally
got Elijah. I was we were talking earlier, and I'm like,
he's so he's so sensitive, like he's he was never
meant to like, you know, kind of have all this
stuff happened to him. He just wanted to sing, and
you know, it was heartbreaking for me to read some
of it because I just thought he's so damaged, you know,
(12:57):
and he's just like he wants to crawl back inside him.
And you know, throughout the novel, Jane is there and
she just I guess because she's so in love with them,
maybe you can explain that relationship. She, to her own detriment,
tries to help him over and over and over. You know,
(13:19):
never was never allowed to say that she wrote the songs,
and I just felt, I felt, you know, for Jane,
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish you'd just get
your due, you know, but even every kind of you know,
hole that Elijah would go down and and she would
be like I got to pull him up. I said
that I would, and it was all and I'm just
like part of me was.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Like, don't do it anymore, you know, don't do it.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
So you know, why did you have her constantly just
always there for him?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, I mean, there are so many and hopefully I
can keep all that in my head because there's a
lot to that question, and I think, yes, there is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
First of all, they were.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Young, right, they were very young, And I think that
when you're young like that, you don't it's not especially reasonable,
like your head and your heart are not really communicating.
I do think there's that sort of soulmate faded element
that happens with them, So that is what was going
on there.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And then they were kind of thrown.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Into this situation together while still very young, right, and
so she wasn't exactly in an environment where you know,
who would have ever been saying to her, you know,
this is like codependency and maybe you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This or that, Like I think she wasn't. That wasn't happening.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I also think the reality is, you know, the whole
like she couldn't say she wrote the songs, like I
don't think she necessarily really wanted that credit. I think
it was more upsetting to him right when they were
like nobody really is going to want to know that,
Like no one's going to want a headbang to like
a girl's lyrics, Like that was that's peak nineties. That
definitely happened somewhere in some boardroom in the nineties.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And I think that, you know, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Bother her, but it bothered him and him to spiral,
and then I think her fate was really entwined with his.
Like I don't think in that era or really any era,
could she just say, you know, what, I'm not doing
this anymore. I'm gonna go on my own, like what
would have become of her, Like I don't think they
would have been like great, cool Jane Pyre solo project,
you know, like her fortunes were tied to his. And
(15:18):
I do think that society to this day, unfortunately, do
kind of romanticize that broken guy thing. And I think
in a contemporary you know, lens like look at the
White Lotus, look at the fact that spoiler alert, but
like Rick and Chelsea, that's not romantic. And now internet was,
(15:40):
oh my god, Greek tragedy is so romantic, and I
was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But that it's not romantic.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Like even my daughter was like, oh, it's complicated because
he had anger issues.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I'm like, how is it okay? Like that's you know,
but they had one nice breakfast.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
And the rest of the time it was terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Like what I do think that we're conditioned to that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So I don't like I in writing about that relationship
the way that I did, I'm certainly not like this
is great. Like what happens to Elijah happens, and Elijah
has to go on a journey to you know, either
he's not alive or he can become worthy of her,
Like that's what that's all about. So yes, like their
(16:27):
stuff was bad and she was enabling him, and then
everything happened for I painted it that way for a reason,
and then I made like extreme things happen for a
reason because I'm well aware that that is not that's
not it, right, Like I have a radio DJ friend
who interviewed me, and he's like Elijah's so charming and
like he seems so great, but like I am not
(16:49):
introducing him to my friends, and like exactly, like he's
so unsuitable, Like that's just the way it is, because
part of the reason you're not introducing him to anyone
is because everyone fall in love with him as well.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
It's kind of like the whole Kim thing. Kim, you know,
didn't want to see his success, but wanted to be
around him.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Interesting, you have some great characters. I do have to
ask you, like I know that you probably based you
know that your characters on real people. The one that
we're talking about earlier, Maxim in the French punk band,
Did you have somebody? Did you base that character off somebody?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Because because Tanya wants to meet that person.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I think I want to meet him because he kind
of was doing the ground, he was doing the punk thing,
and then he became an artist and he kind of
grew up and he was just dead sexy to me,
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Anyway, I feel like, maybe like in an alternate universe
where like Jeff Buckley had not died, maybe that I
actually think of all the people, like I don't have
a specific person in mind for him, except that he
definitely is a type and he's definitely like out of
that era, Like that type is definitely mine.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Catnip too, I like, and I really want to vent
her with.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
A very nice altered path and to have that moment
where somebody else saw her and was like, you know what,
it's not just the Elijah show, like I see you,
and I really I really do, and I always have
like I wanted that for her, even even though you know,
I wanted that for her, And I kind of always
think about my shows as TV shows now, so I
(18:24):
feel like the Lightning Bottles has been optioned. I feel
like a TV show, like we need that, right because
like nothing like a love triangle, you know what I mean?
I love a love triangle in TV and he's perfect,
so I kind of wanted to create myself like here
he is and there's two.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
He's definitely on the scene, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So I love this. I love that you're always writing
novels for us because it seems like you're always busy.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
And when she says us, we mean she means it's
very us.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah everybody. But it's yeah, because when we last spoke
to you around the holidays, you told us about the
news that was coming out, and that was about Lucky
through Reese Witherspoon's production company, which is amazing Anya Taylor Joy.
That's going to be great. So now to hear this
as well, this is huge news for you. Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean, I don't know, like they say lightning, does
lightning strike twice? Not strike like maybe lightning will strike twice,
because I now see how hard it is for something
to actually get made. But also, you know, I'm I'm
meeting people all the time, you know, I'm I'm really
in that world.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So yeah, I should figure out who would play Maxine.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He's important, right, Yeah, we need yeah, Yeah, I just yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Will be happy to be at the auditions for that, Yes.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Who would play Elijah?
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I mean I was actually thinking of, oh, he just
played Bob Dylan in a bid. Yeah, Timothy Shelly. But
I'm like, he's already played Bob Dyl, So what do you.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Do with that?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I even kind of thought like I need it to
be somebody with universal appeal, so even like a Jacob
a Lordy type. The producers had mentioned there's some like
Green Day stage play and whoever plays Billy Joe? Yeah,
some young guy who I don't I haven't seen him
in much else, but he does seem to have that charisma.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I also feel like he's too old.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
But Jeremy Allen White has that sort of like he's
just so kind of cute and broken.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Cute and broken.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I love it and broken. Yeah, I should be a
shirt and.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
I just want to take care of him.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I don't know why I ask myself that, like why,
but we do feel it.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And I know when I was a certain age, there
was nothing like a fixer upper to just get my
heart like really going why. We need to ask ourselves
that we need to figure out what that.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, well you let us, you let us know, and
we can await that news and what's next for you, Marissa,
another holiday read?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I hear, yes, So I have a holiday book called
Christmas at the Ranch coming out in the fall, which
I love, which is sat in Halliburton, my cottage hometown.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I'm working on the equal for Lucky, so there should
be news about that. That's my plan. Yeah, I'm really,
really really into that. I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Perfect, fantastic, Wow, love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Well, thank you so much for your time today. We
love talking to you. It's just you always give us
such great insight. You give us such great novels, and
we're big fans. So yeah, we love the book, and
thank you again.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Thanks Marissa, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Take chairs, thank you.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Bye. She's delightful, she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'm so excited for her.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I know me too, Okay, I joy the rest of
your day.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Bye bye. Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us.
We hope you'll join us again on relaxing reads.
Join us and unwined with a good book.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to relaxing reads.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Hi, it's Devin Halifax.
Speaker 4 (00:08):
Hia's Amona in Vancouver.
Speaker 5 (00:09):
Hey, it's Tanya and Edmonton.
Speaker 4 (00:11):
We are so excited to interview Marissa Stapley today, the
author of The Lightning Bottles deb Why don't you give
us a little synopsis on the book before we get started.
Speaker 6 (00:20):
Okay, our latest read, The Lightning Bottles comes from Marissa Stapley,
and it's all about love, drugs, and rock and roll.
Jane was once half of a famous duo from the
Seattle grunge era of the nineties. Years later, she became
perhaps the most hated and least understood woman in music.
She was never as popular with fans as her bandmate
and soulmate Elijah. They were on a high, at the
(00:43):
top of their game, and then that rise to fame
came crashing down. Her husband and partner in music abruptly disappeared,
and through the public hatred, all Jane really wanted was
to retreat. What she doesn't anticipate is the bombshell that
awaits her at her new home in the German countryside.
There's a super fan secret messages for Jane, and so
(01:05):
much in between. Across Continent road trip about two misunderstood
outsiders brought together by their shared love of music. Hi, Marissa, So,
Marissa Stappley, everything you throw our way, we are absolutely loving.
You are one of our favorites, not just the world's
one of the world's favorites. And you've got best sellers
(01:26):
out there. But this is so interesting, this one because
just like a music concert, this book is an experience.
I mean, we're all big music fans. Obviously you are
as well. So how did you come up with the idea?
And tell us about the musicians or the industry reps
that you chat it with before writing?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, So I feel like I always say, like The
Lightning Bottles is kind of it's the book of my heart,
Like they're all they were all, you know, pieces of me.
But this one is that, like teen It was born
in my you know, grunge bedroom where I grew up
in Stouville, And you know, I was music obsessed and
it was a small town, so there really weren't a
(02:08):
lot of other people who were.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
As into the kind of music that I was into
as I was.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, you know, I like my mixtapes were like a
work of art, and they like I would do things
like if I liked a guy, I would like create
a mixtape and sort of like drop it at his
feet to like, you know, make sure like I'm and
like if he picked it up, and probably chances are
he'd be like you dropped this and keep walking right.
(02:33):
But in my mind, like here's my soul, Like this
is who I am, you know, so so that that
was who I was, and and you know I carry
that that that fourteen fifteen year old around and also
at that age, something you know, hugely formative in my
teenage mind happened, which was the death of Kurt Cobain,
(02:54):
and that really stuck with me. And I think the
other side of that is, you know, I was a
big fan of Shnad O'Connor. I was also a big
fan of Courtney Love and whole and like, these are
women who were also vilified and kind of pushed to
the margins.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
And I don't think I processed that at the.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Time, But when I read Shnad O'Connor's memoir when it
came out five years or four years ago, and it
just caused me to start thinking about the way women
had been treated and kind of under what I felt
like was my watch.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Because I was so into that scene.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I just started thinking this book that, by the way,
like it had been living with me for a while,
and these characters and I wasn't quite sure what to
do with them. I just thought like, I've got to
write this, like this feels so important.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So that's where the idea came from.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
So I've mentioned Courtney Love and Shnead O'Connor are really
the muses for Jane, and then all of the you know,
many female artists who I dedicate.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
The book to from that era.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And also I thought about Kurt Cobain, but I did
a lot of research about him, and it was just
it was so difficult and sad, and I think the
addiction and men illness, there's a level there that like,
it's just it's so complicated. So I also started thinking
about Jeff Buckley, who also died at twenty seven, and
that's really the muse for Elijah's voice. So while all
(04:13):
of this was kind of coming together in my mind,
I turned to Alan Cross, who's the Canadian music X
you know, alternative music expert. I spoke with him when
the book was just in its conceptual stages, just to
ask for insight into the scene because I have my
memories that you know, he has all these facts.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
And then he was just very generous with his time.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
We spoke a few times, and he actually read an
early copy of the book around the time when it
was getting copy edited, just to make sure there were
no factual errors, which I'm very proud to.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Say there were no. I mean he found like ten.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They were very small, and I was like, oh yeah,
but I was so proud of that, you know, that
getting and having access to him, and he has some
really great stories too share as well.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
He certainly does. That was actually one of the things
I was going to ask you because in your acknowledgments
she said that you know, you had spoken to Alan
Cross and the only thing he said to you was quote,
get it right. Yeah, So how did how did that
sort of like help you formulate this story? Like how
did that those words help you? Kind of?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And with all respect to Alan too, I feel like
I also saw it as a challenge. I was like,
I can do that, Like I'm going to do that.
I can totally do that. But you know, and also
I took to heart what he meant, because there are
so many music books that are released and some things
are glossed over or facts are not you know, correct,
(05:37):
and I think it's such a it's a it's an
interesting scene and this particular era was really important. So
it was really important to me to try to get
that right. Like one of the stories that Alan told
me very early on that stuck with me was but
I asked him, like, tell me, what was it like
as a DJ to play Smells Like Teen Spirit for
(05:58):
the first time on the radio? And he told me
that he received a CD from you know, the record
companies would send these CDs out, Like I feel like
I have to explain this to my teenage kids, like
how this would.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Work, and I like excited about that you can't get.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Anywhere else, and Smells Like Teen Spirit was on it,
and I'm going to say, for the sake of storytelling,
it was track four. And his program director came in
and was like, hey, you may want to check out
track four, like it's a pretty it's a good one.
So he decided to play it. The album hadn't come
out yet. I think it was releasing that Tuesday. Let's
say this was a Friday, so I don't know, I'm timelines.
(06:35):
Maybe I shouldn't be focusing on But he played the
song and he said he went to get a coffee.
By the time he came back, the lines were completely jammed.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
They were lit up. People were calling me like what
is that? What is that? And it continued throughout that day.
The album then came out that Tuesday. He did club
Energy I think was Energy on Friday, that like alternative
club out near the airport, which I think all people
of a certain age went to dance to alternate a
frock at and he said that by Friday, everyone in
(07:03):
that club knew the words to that song and they
were all like mashing and it was just he was like,
I've never seen anything like that before or since. And
my editors would often say to me, like this stratospheric
rise to fame you're describing like it doesn't feel realistic,
And I was like, but this is what really happened,
Like this is how it happened with Nirvana. And I
really wanted to use that because I think that's part
(07:26):
of what the problem was for Kurt Cobain was like
snap your fingers and all of the sudden, people are
singing all the words too. Also, what wasn't the song
that you expected was going to be a hit? I
feel like I have so much to say.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But also I listened to Courtney Love on Rob Harville's
The Sixty Songs that Explain the Nineties, and Courtney Love
does an episode and the thing that she said that
stuck with me, and she's talking about Curtis. She's like,
I often wonder what would have happened because he didn't
want that song on the album, So like what would
have happened? Or if come as you are in the
(08:01):
first single and it you know, like where would we
be now? It's just interesting to think about because that
song tortured him for some reason, so you know, it's
just so it's so there's so much story there and
so yeah, like the question was like to get it right,
it's to get it right is to really fully immerse yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I did, but I was fourteen and now it's.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
You're giving me chills just talking about that because we
were talking about like we discussed that in our conversation
about the deaths that affected us, and of course Kirk
Cobaine came up and me being in Vancouver, so close
to Seattle. It just felt like even more of a
local connection, even though it's not really, but it's like,
those are the things that sit with you through your life.
Is when you remember those moments and then there's such
(08:45):
a big loss and there's that tragedy, and then you
listen to that music and it takes you there. And
even now when it came up to I think it
was like recently the thirtieth anniversary of his passing, and
then you hear that song again, it just takes you
back and you're living like that ten year old or
fourteen year old girl all over again experiencing it. So
it's nice to hear you kind of put that all
(09:06):
into perspective on how it came to be in the novel.
And then the other thing was the chat rooms. We
went back to the world of chat rooms. Did you
ever meet a love through a chat room or make
a connection like that? Like I feel like I was
meeting all the weirdos and creepers. I never met any totally.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh yeah, totally all the creepers. Like and interestingly, some
people are like, oh, you mean like aol. I'm like no,
Like this was pre like this was like literally just
like words have come up on your screen. It was
like a black screen with yellow writing, and like the
most you could do is if somebody used all the
like symbols to they could you know, some really smart
techy people could create like a face or something. And
(09:44):
it was definitely the creepers. Like I never really, I
never met a love, but I still I did have
a boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I lived in stokehl and he lived in Lindsay, which
really isn't that far.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
But we had to write letters, so I did have
that letter writing experience and I still have those letters.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And actually it's very sweet, right, It's just very sweet
and innocent.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And also I remember that feeling like when you could,
you know, it was a long distance to talk, so
we'd write letters and that and feeling of anticipation. I
really loved those scenes in the book. But yeah, the
chat room, I think people were connecting that way, and
I think the connections over like it was connections.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Over like video games.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But also I think music and I think that the
internet has changed so much, right like that the nineties
was the era we didn't realize what we were on
the edge of.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It was like the Industrial Revolution level change for the world, but.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That those innocent, sort of first days where it was
like you could be Jane sitting in your bedroom feeling
totally alone and unseen, and you could find someone else
who was like the same weird as you. And that's
kind of a nice, little like thing about the Internet
that still does happen, even with all of the kind
(10:58):
of upste like horse out of the barns where it's.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Just we We were talking about the chat room as well,
but Tanya and I both you know, come from different
parts of the country, but both grew up in rural area,
so we didn't do the chat room thing.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
We wrote letters and I had a bunch of pen pals.
Speaker 6 (11:21):
But then when I moved to the city and went
to university in Halifax, and that's where I was sort
of introduced to it as well.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And I was telling the ladies. Actually, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
If you were aware that Halifax was actually known as
Seattle North in the nineties because of the bands that
were coming out of here and there was a huge
grunge scene and yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It was. It was a great time to be.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Going to university here and the downtown scene was just
kind of kind of wild but wonderful too.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I did not know that. I that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I have that nineties that book have not been the
same the whole like this, like it's like this huge
doorstopper about the Canadian nineties alternative music scene. But I
just was kind of I didn't end up reading the
whole thing during research, so I think I might have
missed that.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
That's so cool. I wish i'd known that. I would
have had.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Sloan Is it like Sloan from Halifax?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Was it?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
I was going to say Sloan, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Yeah, yeah, and Joel Plaska who has his own band,
but he was in a couple of different bands, but
it was yeah, around the same time.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So yeah, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That's cool. That's cool.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I wonder Marissa, like, you know, just reading I totally
got Elijah. I was we were talking earlier, and I'm like,
he's so he's so sensitive, like he's he was never
meant to like, you know, kind of have all this
stuff happened to him. He just wanted to sing, and
you know, it was heartbreaking for me to read some
of it because I just thought he's so damaged, you know,
(12:57):
and he's just like he wants to crawl back inside him.
And you know, throughout the novel, Jane is there and
she just I guess because she's so in love with them,
maybe you can explain that relationship. She, to her own detriment,
tries to help him over and over and over. You know,
(13:19):
never was never allowed to say that she wrote the songs,
and I just felt, I felt, you know, for Jane,
I'm like, oh my gosh, I wish you'd just get
your due, you know, but even every kind of you know,
hole that Elijah would go down and and she would
be like I got to pull him up. I said
that I would, and it was all and I'm just
like part of me was.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Like, don't do it anymore, you know, don't do it.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
So you know, why did you have her constantly just
always there for him?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, I mean, there are so many and hopefully I
can keep all that in my head because there's a
lot to that question, and I think, yes, there is.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
First of all, they were.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Young, right, they were very young, And I think that
when you're young like that, you don't it's not especially reasonable,
like your head and your heart are not really communicating.
I do think there's that sort of soulmate faded element
that happens with them, So that is what was going
on there.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
And then they were kind of thrown.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Into this situation together while still very young, right, and
so she wasn't exactly in an environment where you know,
who would have ever been saying to her, you know,
this is like codependency and maybe you should be doing.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
This or that, Like I think she wasn't. That wasn't happening.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I also think the reality is, you know, the whole
like she couldn't say she wrote the songs, like I
don't think she necessarily really wanted that credit. I think
it was more upsetting to him right when they were
like nobody really is going to want to know that,
Like no one's going to want a headbang to like
a girl's lyrics, Like that was that's peak nineties. That
definitely happened somewhere in some boardroom in the nineties.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
And I think that, you know, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Bother her, but it bothered him and him to spiral,
and then I think her fate was really entwined with his.
Like I don't think in that era or really any era,
could she just say, you know, what, I'm not doing
this anymore. I'm gonna go on my own, like what
would have become of her, Like I don't think they
would have been like great, cool Jane Pyre solo project,
you know, like her fortunes were tied to his. And
(15:18):
I do think that society to this day, unfortunately, do
kind of romanticize that broken guy thing. And I think
in a contemporary you know, lens like look at the
White Lotus, look at the fact that spoiler alert, but
like Rick and Chelsea, that's not romantic. And now internet was,
(15:40):
oh my god, Greek tragedy is so romantic, and I
was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
But that it's not romantic.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Like even my daughter was like, oh, it's complicated because
he had anger issues.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I'm like, how is it okay? Like that's you know,
but they had one nice breakfast.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
And the rest of the time it was terrible.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Like what I do think that we're conditioned to that.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So I don't like I in writing about that relationship
the way that I did, I'm certainly not like this
is great. Like what happens to Elijah happens, and Elijah
has to go on a journey to you know, either
he's not alive or he can become worthy of her,
Like that's what that's all about. So yes, like their
(16:27):
stuff was bad and she was enabling him, and then
everything happened for I painted it that way for a reason,
and then I made like extreme things happen for a
reason because I'm well aware that that is not that's
not it, right, Like I have a radio DJ friend
who interviewed me, and he's like Elijah's so charming and
like he seems so great, but like I am not
(16:49):
introducing him to my friends, and like exactly, like he's
so unsuitable, Like that's just the way it is, because
part of the reason you're not introducing him to anyone
is because everyone fall in love with him as well.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
It's kind of like the whole Kim thing. Kim, you know,
didn't want to see his success, but wanted to be
around him.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Interesting, you have some great characters. I do have to
ask you, like I know that you probably based you
know that your characters on real people. The one that
we're talking about earlier, Maxim in the French punk band,
Did you have somebody? Did you base that character off somebody?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Because because Tanya wants to meet that person.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I think I want to meet him because he kind
of was doing the ground, he was doing the punk thing,
and then he became an artist and he kind of
grew up and he was just dead sexy to me,
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Anyway, I feel like, maybe like in an alternate universe
where like Jeff Buckley had not died, maybe that I
actually think of all the people, like I don't have
a specific person in mind for him, except that he
definitely is a type and he's definitely like out of
that era, Like that type is definitely mine.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Catnip too, I like, and I really want to vent
her with.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
A very nice altered path and to have that moment
where somebody else saw her and was like, you know what,
it's not just the Elijah show, like I see you,
and I really I really do, and I always have
like I wanted that for her, even even though you know,
I wanted that for her, And I kind of always
think about my shows as TV shows now, so I
(18:24):
feel like the Lightning Bottles has been optioned. I feel
like a TV show, like we need that, right because
like nothing like a love triangle, you know what I mean?
I love a love triangle in TV and he's perfect,
so I kind of wanted to create myself like here
he is and there's two.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
He's definitely on the scene, you know.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So I love this. I love that you're always writing
novels for us because it seems like you're always busy.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
And when she says us, we mean she means it's
very us.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah everybody. But it's yeah, because when we last spoke
to you around the holidays, you told us about the
news that was coming out, and that was about Lucky
through Reese Witherspoon's production company, which is amazing Anya Taylor Joy.
That's going to be great. So now to hear this
as well, this is huge news for you. Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I'm hoping.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean, I don't know, like they say lightning, does
lightning strike twice? Not strike like maybe lightning will strike twice,
because I now see how hard it is for something
to actually get made. But also, you know, I'm I'm
meeting people all the time, you know, I'm I'm really
in that world.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
So yeah, I should figure out who would play Maxine.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He's important, right, Yeah, we need yeah, Yeah, I just yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Will be happy to be at the auditions for that, Yes.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
I think.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Who would play Elijah?
Speaker 5 (19:52):
I mean I was actually thinking of, oh, he just
played Bob Dylan in a bid. Yeah, Timothy Shelly. But
I'm like, he's already played Bob Dyl, So what do you.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Do with that?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I even kind of thought like I need it to
be somebody with universal appeal, so even like a Jacob
a Lordy type. The producers had mentioned there's some like
Green Day stage play and whoever plays Billy Joe? Yeah,
some young guy who I don't I haven't seen him
in much else, but he does seem to have that charisma.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I also feel like he's too old.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
But Jeremy Allen White has that sort of like he's
just so kind of cute and broken.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Cute and broken.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I love it and broken. Yeah, I should be a
shirt and.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
I just want to take care of him.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I don't know why I ask myself that, like why,
but we do feel it.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And I know when I was a certain age, there
was nothing like a fixer upper to just get my
heart like really going why. We need to ask ourselves
that we need to figure out what that.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, well you let us, you let us know, and
we can await that news and what's next for you, Marissa,
another holiday read?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I hear, yes, So I have a holiday book called
Christmas at the Ranch coming out in the fall, which
I love, which is sat in Halliburton, my cottage hometown.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I'm working on the equal for Lucky, so there should
be news about that. That's my plan. Yeah, I'm really,
really really into that. I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Perfect, fantastic, Wow, love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Well, thank you so much for your time today. We
love talking to you. It's just you always give us
such great insight. You give us such great novels, and
we're big fans. So yeah, we love the book, and
thank you again.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Thanks Marissa, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Take chairs, thank you.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Bye. She's delightful, she's amazing.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I'm so excited for her.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
I know me too, Okay, I joy the rest of
your day.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Bye bye. Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us.
We hope you'll join us again on relaxing reads.
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