July 17, 2025 • 23 mins
In our latest episode, we dive into Favourite Daughter by debut author Morgan Dick.What if your therapist was actually your sister—and neither of you knew it?Mickey and Arlo are strangers, brought together by a secret will and a father who left them both with unfinished business—pain, secrets, and a chance for healing they never expected.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Join us and unwined with a good book. Welcome to
relaxing reads.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi, it's Devin Halifax. Hi, it's Simona and Vancouver.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, it's Dany and Edmonton.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Our latest read is a darkly funny debut novel, Favorite
Daughter by Morgan Dick. Micky and Arlow are half sisters
who've never met. Mickey's father abandoned her and her mom
years ago and has resented him ever since. Arlow adored
her father. When their father dies, Mickey is shocked that
she inherited everything, with the stipulation that she go to
(00:32):
therapy to receive the large.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sum of money. The catch.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Arlow is the therapist, and Arlow is desperate to understand
why her father cut her out of his will. They
soon get under each other's skin after they learn that
they are sisters, and they find themselves in a crash
course that will break or save them both.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So there's a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It's kind of messy, but it's all about life. There's law,
there's family, secrets, grief, addiction, a dysfunctional childhood. But I'm
not sure that there was any motion not touched on.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, No, there there was a lot there was a
lot going on in this book, and you know, I.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's so weird. Like I started it and I'm like,
I don't know, and then I kind of went through it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But like the last half of the book, I just,
for whatever reason, I just grabbed onto the characters and
just ran with it. Like there were some that I
was kind of like, I actually like in the beginning,
I'm reading some of these characters and I'm like, Oh,
that guy, Oh that ky And then like when I
get to the end of the book, it's like, I'm thinking,
I need to go reread the first part of this
(01:41):
book because I kind of pegged this guy like Chris.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I kind of.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Pegged him as this and he ends up being something else,
you know, And I'm like, where did I get the
idea that he was like this kind of you know,
I don't know, like like you know, muscly kind of
goofy kind of guy. He ends up being you know
that she starts talking about his eyelashes and I'm like, huh.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I did not pick that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
He's actually kind of hot.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
So anyway, beyond that, Yeah, there's a lot going on
in this book, and it talks about all the stuff
as dav mentioned about life, like all the stuff that
we go through, grief and loss and love and just
trying to figure out who the hell you are and
why do you think.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
The way you think? And why does this happen and
why does that? You know, all these questions that all
of us go through.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Yeah, definitely a lot of emotion, a lot of feelings here,
things that are very relatable in a lot of situations.
What was interesting for me is I love a good
three hundred page book because I'm like, this is going
to be easy for me to get through. But I
almost felt like I needed a little bit more from
this one. I think I needed a little more character development.
(02:56):
I mean, we got a lot of the main characters,
but like you said, like learning a little bit more
about Chris or Evelyn, Like at the end, even the
relationship between the sisters, like it didn't quite wrap up
for me how I hoped. And I don't know, maybe
that's because there will be room for a sequel, because
what is their journey now, Like we don't you know,
the way they kind of go through the motions and
(03:17):
learn about each other and figure it out, and at
the end it's kind of like, yeah, they've come together,
but what is their relationship going forward? Is it a
split the money now and go our separate ways? Is
it a come together and really start to heal together
from their past because it's they kind of had solo
journeys going through it and now, you know, people often
(03:37):
say there's when you're going through grief and stuff, there's
comfort when you have someone to share that with. Sharing
that grief can help you really get through it. So
for me, I think I needed a little bit more,
like maybe another thirty or forty pages that could just
give me a little bit of what that looks like.
So I'm curious to kind of talk to Morgan about
that a little later, to be like, you know, what's
happening with the sisters?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
What happens?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So that was definitely interesting for me.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
But yeah, a lot of funny points, Like it almost
was like you would be reading and then something would happen,
and then you'd be like, how did we get here?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But then later.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
You'd kind of find out, Especially when Arlo and Tom
kind of got together, I was like, wait, did I
miss a chapter here?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
They're waking up together?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And then later later you find out you know, at
the funeral, things you know, got a little flirty. There
was wine involved and things like that. So but definitely
a lot of interesting characters. I really loved Debra the
hairdresser mom, Like, I thought she was just super fun
and she'd be.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Such a cool kind of person.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
The way she stormed into the funeral, So that was
kind of like a scene that I thought was fun.
And in terms of both of the characters, I don't know.
I don't know if I would connect more with a
Mickey or an Arlow, but they were both very interesting
characters for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, the scene of the funeral scene with Deborah as
I was reading in my name, thinking oh Deborah, don't,
oh Deborah, don't, don't not another scene come on. But yeah,
as you learned a little bit more, I mean I
didn't know where it was, you know, going to uh
or how it was going to unfold that particular moment.
(05:10):
But then yeah, as we get to know her a
little bit and what she was up to. And also
the neighbor, I thought she was quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Whoa Daria?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yes, yes, yeah, I thought she was quite interesting. She
reminded me of somebody that used to live in a
neighborhood where I used to live. And yeah, she was
she was very entertaining, not quite sure you would call
her warm or not immediately warm to people, but had a.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Big heart nonetheless.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So yeah, and and Tom did he live half the
time in.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
His eyes think, So I'm.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Still trying to figure out things with him.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And it was like is he is he creepy?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Er?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Is he hot?
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Because there were moments it was like he's an attractive man,
but there were times where yeah, he was kind of
described as like no, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Not a very attractive quality.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
So I was like I couldn't picture, like I couldn't
quite picture his character, Like I had a vision of
what the other characters look like, but with him, I
was like trying to place it. But I'm like, I
don't know, I don't know if I think he's a
a hot older man or because like all this other
stuff and he's being called a creep.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Morgan described him as like as like a Tom Hanks
kind of a character. And you know, when we first
got introduced to Tom, I I don't know, I just
had an affinity for him, Like I just connected with him.
There was something kind of just adorable about this, and
he kind of came across as like, yeah, this older guy.
And it's so funny because the author Morgan writes, you
(06:42):
know that he's.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Fifty and he's old, and I'm like, or he looks
good for fifty. I'm like, hey, I know, right, fifty,
he's not that old.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Fifty is the new thirty.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And then I started thinking of like all the you know,
I'm in my fifties, and I started thinking about all
the men that I know who are in their fifties.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
My boy friend is sixty five.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And it's like, you know what, they're not all like
like they're not on death's door here, Like there's some
pretty hot fifty year olds or six year olds and beyond. Anyway,
So I kind of liked him. I liked him because
he was adorable, and I liked him because he was
kind of like, I mean, he was like this, this
a lawyer, but he was doing like all this kind
of hippie trippy stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
For Yeah, he's like a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
He's like a work.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It's like he was trying to fix himself and he
was doing all these I feel like he must have
had a million textbooks and stuff around him that he
just took a little bit of everything and just tried
to do everything all at once and like, yeah, I'm
gonna meditate and then I'm gonna do this, and I'm
gonna have essential oils and I'm gonna you know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So he was like this.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
This guy guy, but then he was like this guy
who was going on this other journey. And I really
connected with him and I thought that he you know,
and he showed up at the hospital when Mickey went
there and she's and he said, and she's like, how
are you here?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And he's like, well, I said, I said I was
your dad.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And I thought, oh, because you know, Micky just doesn't
have she doesn't let anybody be part of her life.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You know, she doesn't have any friends.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
She's just I just felt so anyway, I just felt
for her so much. So I thought Tom kind of
kind of brought that father figure and he definitely came
through in the end. And for me, he was one
of the most interesting characters for me in the book.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
And he was so accessible, Like why is security not
stopping anyone to just go into his office?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Like is that what you could say?
Speaker 5 (08:29):
You could go to a building and say hi, I
just got to go drop something off for my boyfriend,
and they'll just let you and the security guard try.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
These women have come in to tell him the same thing,
like oh yeah, okay, Tom's girlfriend again.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
He was definitely an interesting character and always there for them,
right in a weird way, like you know, this is
your your person who's handling your estate, so it should
be a very professional relationship. And then they're all kind
of just friends and hanging out and he's coming to
the birthday party and uh yeah, very.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Interesting and i'd like to I think that you know,
there's still a lot about the father. We definitely know
a lot about the father, but you know, did he
and Tom hang out beyond their professional relationship, and did
Tom get to know him on a different level, And
that's why he has so much care and concern for
(09:25):
the daughters, for the girls, and that's why he's kind
of stepped in to protect them in some sort of
way as well.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I can't imagine having a secret like he knew what
the will, he knew the will was changed last minute,
and I can't imagine. Just you can't do anything when
your client wants to that's whatever they want to do right,
but he kind of so I think he felt responsible,
like you said, for both of them, although he couldn't
say anything. He couldn't couldn't say anything about what was happening.
(09:57):
And I don't know, like, did it work. Did the
father by cutting Arlow out of the will and giving
it all to Mickey but making it so that Mickey
had to do these seven sessions with her?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's so messed up. I I don't know. He was
so controlling all the way through to the end.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Yeah, that part was interesting because I'm like, you know,
you just this person who cared for you. You know,
it could make sense if it was like, Okay, you
know you were promised five million, you're getting two and
a half, and it's like why, and then it's like,
you know, I'm giving some to your sister, but then
still making them kind of line up and get to
know each other and speak together. But yeah, there was
I still don't understand why she was completely cut out.
(10:36):
Like I get his you know, his feeling towards Mickey,
like he wasn't there for her and he wants to
just give her this life. But maybe he thought Arlow
will be fine. She's got a steady job, she'll get
some money from her mom, who's got money, and maybe
he was just like, I just need to give to
the child that I wasn't there for and who kind
of doesn't have their life together, so maybe this will help.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
But then it comes to that whole point.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Of like this book was very much around mental health
and addiction, and you know, the things that Morgan did
when it comes to the addiction and selling things in
pawn shops, like that was like a big it's a
big thing. It's a big conversation, and it's like someone
like that getting that kind of money needs the therapy
(11:22):
likely to be able to handle it better. Then maybe
they would know what to do with right.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, I wonder what would what would have happened had
Arlow not found out before the end of the sessions
that you know who Mickey was.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know, how would that have played out?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Would if they never figured out who they were, you
know their connection, would they have come together or I
just wonder what would have happened, you know, because she
found out, she snooped and she put two and two together.
But I just wonder how it would play out if
(12:07):
that barrier wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, like there was a barrier.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
But yeah, would they have been friends or can you
even be friends with a client?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I don't know that would be.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, that's an interesting thing. I'm not sure. I wonder, like, yeah,
this is about addiction and mean, all the things that
people go through, and also it's about you know, how
you how your childhood affects your life, you know, I
mean Arlow adored her dad, but her dad was was
you know, he was still a drunk. I don't know
(12:40):
how he got all that money. I actually would like
to know how he got all that money because he
seemed like such a I don't know how he did it,
but you know.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He was he was there, but he wasn't there. But
she adored him.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And but yet, you know, we found out that that
she her first you know, her marriage broke up because
he was never enough. She always had to get daddy's
approval right, and she kind of grew up like that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And and Mickey, she never wanted to be her dad.
Her dad was not in her life.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
He left at age when she was seven, so she
was she spent her entire life trying not to be
like her dad. Yet she ends up becoming an alcoholic
although she doesn't really acknowledge it, like have you guys ever,
you know, like I remember, like I grew up with
alcoholism in my family, and I remember as an eleven
year old learning to disappear, you know, don't say anything,
(13:33):
don't draw attention, don't you know. So what that did
into my adult life is I wasn't as assertive as
I possibly you know, could have been.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And I'm working through that. But now I know why.
I know why I.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Don't put myself out there, because to be seen means
that somebody is going to say something to you and
it's going to be mean, and it's going to.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Be awful, and you just don't want that. So I get.
I totally get these two women.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
They they aren't really there was alt of their childhood
and they're trying to figure it out. But I mean
it it takes a while to figure out why you
are like you are, and then you know, go to counseling.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Counseling is a good thing. Counseling is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, And I think now like the definition of what,
like what is alcoholism? And you know, are there different stages?
Are there different types of alcoholics? I remember hearing from
her friend in college who was concerned for me and
for others in our group, who did what a lot
of university and college kids did was drink way too much.
(14:35):
If you know, we were consuming more than we could handle.
Not every night, but a lot of nights through the
school week, and you know, missing some classes. As I
was going through the book, I'm flashing back to some
of those times and thinking, oh, you know, she did
have a right to be concerned about us. At the time,
I thought, who do you like, are you calling us?
(14:57):
Are you telling us that we have a problem. We
don't have a problem. Look, we're fine, you know, for
a few days during the week, and then we just
you know, you know, start the party again later in
the week. But now I think, wow, I mean, I
don't drink a lot anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It's very rare.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And to think about how much a young person's body
does consume at one point or another, it's a lot
to think about. And yeah, if she had taken us
all to counseling, I'm sure we would have been fine.
A little embarrassed we didn't because we just thought, you're
(15:36):
just being silly. But here's a young girl, Mickey, who
never really acknowledged and things are happening, and she's surprisingly
for the most part, safely got through her day. I mean,
there were a couple of incidents, but it's kind of
amazing how people can get through their days.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Well, it's like you can function, right. There are some
people who will will have drinks or whatever substance is
and they'll just pass out and can't get up, and
they be kind of like that for days or however.
But then there are some people who can do this
and get up and go to work and do everything,
and it's a.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Part of life.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
They can still function, and so you don't sometimes realize,
but it's it comes back to a lot of the
conversations where we're always in this like especially like when
I you know, it was a new mom and stuff,
there's such a big mom like wine culture, Like everything
involved alcohol. So it was like, you know, we'd have
play dates and it was like, okay, let's have some
wine as the kids play. So it was like day
(16:32):
wine and then it was like, oh, you put your
kids to bed, you need to treat yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Have a glass of wine. And then you're going to
like baby showers they're serving wine.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
You're going to kids' birthday parties, they've got alcohol and this,
and so I'm like, it just becomes a situation where
alcohol is available at all these places. And you know,
if people can, you know, they're mindful and they know
it's fine. But for someone who struggles with it, it's
hard to break out of that cycle because it's always
(17:01):
around you. So I'm sure it can't be It can't
be easy because it's such a it's such a normalized thing.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Whereas before, like you said, deb it was.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Like it was like you wait till the weekend and
then you have your like Friday drink or your social
or you go out with your friends or like the
college days. But now if it's like at every you know, corner,
it's like you want to go for a boozy brunch,
It's like you can start whatever, you want to go
to happy hour. It's just it's such a normalized thing
that I think people don't realize like the dangers of it.
(17:30):
And you know, I think, you know, one of the
things it was that what is it It's a learned it's
a learned behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Addiction, It's not something it's a learned behavior. And I
wanted to ask the author about that. Yeah, like is
it a learned behavior? Is it hereditary? I don't know, yeah, because.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
If there was that pattern with her dad, is this
just something like we don't know, We don't know. If
it's something is like you do things that are there
because it's like genetics or just your brain makeup and
it lead you there or you know, you sometimes you
have the opposite cases where it's like if you had
a parent do something, You're like, I'm not going to
be that parent. I'm going to do the exact opposite,
and you can. But then sometimes in Morgan's case, she
(18:11):
didn't want to be that parent, and then she was
kind of that parent. Like we said, anyways, So yeah,
it's it's tricky to kind of understand it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah, And you know, the mental health, addiction, mental health.
You know, we found out about Arlow's former patient Laura,
who every time she met with her is like I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Fine, I'm fine. We tell her parents, she's fine, what
are you going to do tomorrow?
Speaker 4 (18:37):
This?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
What are gonna do that? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Blah, and then we you know, she ends up killing
herself and it's like, gosh, how do you know when
somebody's really hurting, and can you help someone who doesn't
want to be helped.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I don't know, Like if there I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
With Laura, I mean the last session that she had
with Arlow, which we find out at the end of
the book, where Arlowe kind of shoved her out, she
had to get stuff for her dad, consumed with her dad,
you know, and then we find out, you know, that
she had all these plans Laura said, yeah, I'm doing
this and this and this, and she had every intention
of killing herself.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I don't know. That's just so.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Heartbreaking to me that you can't help somebody. And so
where does that go. Do you seek counseling because you
want help? Do you seek counseling because everybody says you need.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Help, and but in the end you don't want it.
I don't know. It's kind of sad when people are broken.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It is.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
And you know, Tanya, you mentioned you mentioned like when
you were younger, you know, it was like you stay quiet,
you don't really do that, And I think that was
a lot of the culture is if people had someone
in their family who was struggling with alcoholism or mental health,
it was just kind of like, Okay, well that's just
the way they are. Let's not you know, bring attention
to it. But I think now we're getting to a
place where the more people have these conversations about things,
(19:54):
then it can hopefully reach someone who needs help.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, you're so right, Like.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
You cannot help everyone because people will ultimately make the
choices they do. But talking about it as if it's
not a bad we're you know, we talk about it
differently Now. Before it was like, oh, so and so
is an alcoholic, they're right off, I remember growing up.
But now it's like, this is a real disease, this
is a real problem, this is real addiction. Like how
do we help these people or how can we guide
(20:21):
someone who's struggling? And I guess that's the you know,
as long as there's still continues to be resources available
and the mental health is so it's so great. There
are so many conversations around mental health. Like growing up,
you know, if I was feeling a certain way or anxious,
like I didn't know how to express that to my
family and to my parents, like you just kind of
(20:41):
dealt with it. And now with my kids, I try
to pick up on those cues and like if it's
been like we sometimes I'll say, if it's been a
really busy weekend or they just feel run down because
kids are busy these days.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They do sports and they do all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
On Monday, my son was like, I just want to
stay home. And he's like, I'm like, do you kind
of need like a mental health day? Like do you
just want to like and he's like yeah, And he
never does this, it's not a thing we do. But
I was like, you know what, I'm going to let
him kind of have this day to just relax. I mean,
he's nine years old, he's not going to miss a
lot of stuff. And it was good and then he
was ready and off to the races. But it's like
sometimes we need those days. Sometimes we need a day
(21:16):
to just recoup, do something for ourselves, rest our body,
because we are in such a busy cycle of world
and work that I think it's when your mental health
starts to suffer, it's it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, and it's and it happens to kids, right, which
I never really I don't think that's ever. Now it's
being addressed, like Simone, like you said, you know you
kind of took notice, and.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But I don't remember like growing up saying.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Can I stay home because I'm not you know, I
just need a day to.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
My head's not right, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, we're definitely, I think we're moving in the right direction. Yeah,
we're moving in the right direction of being more in
tune with what's happening with people, maybe paying a little
bit more attention to people our friend kids, you know,
parents and grandparents, friends, and trying to do whatever we
can to help them.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's weird because with Mickey as a.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Highly functioning alcoholic, Like, there's people like that too, right
who have issues. But you know she strength vodka because
you couldn't smell it, and wow, and she's.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Taking care of She's a kindergarten to know.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Honestly, I think the difference today is that you know,
people aren't afraid to point it out and recognize that
there will be a strain on this relationship, but it
is worth it, you know, compared to what the you know,
ulterior or the alternative might be if you just skip
(22:41):
over it and just keep pushing it to the side.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Great read really enjoyed it and so excited that we
will chat with the author of Favorite Daughter, Morgan Dick
on our next Relaxing Reads podcast. Until then, have a
good one.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on Relaxing Reads.
Join us and unwined with a good book. Welcome to
relaxing reads.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hi, it's Devin Halifax. Hi, it's Simona and Vancouver.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, it's Dany and Edmonton.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Our latest read is a darkly funny debut novel, Favorite
Daughter by Morgan Dick. Micky and Arlow are half sisters
who've never met. Mickey's father abandoned her and her mom
years ago and has resented him ever since. Arlow adored
her father. When their father dies, Mickey is shocked that
she inherited everything, with the stipulation that she go to
(00:32):
therapy to receive the large.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sum of money. The catch.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Arlow is the therapist, and Arlow is desperate to understand
why her father cut her out of his will. They
soon get under each other's skin after they learn that
they are sisters, and they find themselves in a crash
course that will break or save them both.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So there's a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
It's kind of messy, but it's all about life. There's law,
there's family, secrets, grief, addiction, a dysfunctional childhood. But I'm
not sure that there was any motion not touched on.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, No, there there was a lot there was a
lot going on in this book, and you know, I.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It's so weird. Like I started it and I'm like,
I don't know, and then I kind of went through it.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
But like the last half of the book, I just,
for whatever reason, I just grabbed onto the characters and
just ran with it. Like there were some that I
was kind of like, I actually like in the beginning,
I'm reading some of these characters and I'm like, Oh,
that guy, Oh that ky And then like when I
get to the end of the book, it's like, I'm thinking,
I need to go reread the first part of this
(01:41):
book because I kind of pegged this guy like Chris.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I kind of.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Pegged him as this and he ends up being something else,
you know, And I'm like, where did I get the
idea that he was like this kind of you know,
I don't know, like like you know, muscly kind of
goofy kind of guy. He ends up being you know
that she starts talking about his eyelashes and I'm like, huh.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I did not pick that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
He's actually kind of hot.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
So anyway, beyond that, Yeah, there's a lot going on
in this book, and it talks about all the stuff
as dav mentioned about life, like all the stuff that
we go through, grief and loss and love and just
trying to figure out who the hell you are and
why do you think.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
The way you think? And why does this happen and
why does that? You know, all these questions that all
of us go through.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Yeah, definitely a lot of emotion, a lot of feelings here,
things that are very relatable in a lot of situations.
What was interesting for me is I love a good
three hundred page book because I'm like, this is going
to be easy for me to get through. But I
almost felt like I needed a little bit more from
this one. I think I needed a little more character development.
(02:56):
I mean, we got a lot of the main characters,
but like you said, like learning a little bit more
about Chris or Evelyn, Like at the end, even the
relationship between the sisters, like it didn't quite wrap up
for me how I hoped. And I don't know, maybe
that's because there will be room for a sequel, because
what is their journey now, Like we don't you know,
the way they kind of go through the motions and
(03:17):
learn about each other and figure it out, and at
the end it's kind of like, yeah, they've come together,
but what is their relationship going forward? Is it a
split the money now and go our separate ways? Is
it a come together and really start to heal together
from their past because it's they kind of had solo
journeys going through it and now, you know, people often
(03:37):
say there's when you're going through grief and stuff, there's
comfort when you have someone to share that with. Sharing
that grief can help you really get through it. So
for me, I think I needed a little bit more,
like maybe another thirty or forty pages that could just
give me a little bit of what that looks like.
So I'm curious to kind of talk to Morgan about
that a little later, to be like, you know, what's
happening with the sisters?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
What happens?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So that was definitely interesting for me.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
But yeah, a lot of funny points, Like it almost
was like you would be reading and then something would happen,
and then you'd be like, how did we get here?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But then later.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
You'd kind of find out, Especially when Arlo and Tom
kind of got together, I was like, wait, did I
miss a chapter here?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
They're waking up together?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (04:16):
And then later later you find out you know, at
the funeral, things you know, got a little flirty. There
was wine involved and things like that. So but definitely
a lot of interesting characters. I really loved Debra the
hairdresser mom, Like, I thought she was just super fun
and she'd be.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Such a cool kind of person.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
The way she stormed into the funeral, So that was
kind of like a scene that I thought was fun.
And in terms of both of the characters, I don't know.
I don't know if I would connect more with a
Mickey or an Arlow, but they were both very interesting
characters for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yeah, the scene of the funeral scene with Deborah as
I was reading in my name, thinking oh Deborah, don't,
oh Deborah, don't, don't not another scene come on. But yeah,
as you learned a little bit more, I mean I
didn't know where it was, you know, going to uh
or how it was going to unfold that particular moment.
(05:10):
But then yeah, as we get to know her a
little bit and what she was up to. And also
the neighbor, I thought she was quite interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Whoa Daria?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yes, yes, yeah, I thought she was quite interesting. She
reminded me of somebody that used to live in a
neighborhood where I used to live. And yeah, she was
she was very entertaining, not quite sure you would call
her warm or not immediately warm to people, but had a.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Big heart nonetheless.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
So yeah, and and Tom did he live half the
time in.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
His eyes think, So I'm.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Still trying to figure out things with him.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And it was like is he is he creepy?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Er?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Is he hot?
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Because there were moments it was like he's an attractive man,
but there were times where yeah, he was kind of
described as like no, that's.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Not a very attractive quality.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
So I was like I couldn't picture, like I couldn't
quite picture his character, Like I had a vision of
what the other characters look like, but with him, I
was like trying to place it. But I'm like, I
don't know, I don't know if I think he's a
a hot older man or because like all this other
stuff and he's being called a creep.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Morgan described him as like as like a Tom Hanks
kind of a character. And you know, when we first
got introduced to Tom, I I don't know, I just
had an affinity for him, Like I just connected with him.
There was something kind of just adorable about this, and
he kind of came across as like, yeah, this older guy.
And it's so funny because the author Morgan writes, you
(06:42):
know that he's.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Fifty and he's old, and I'm like, or he looks
good for fifty. I'm like, hey, I know, right, fifty,
he's not that old.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Fifty is the new thirty.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And then I started thinking of like all the you know,
I'm in my fifties, and I started thinking about all
the men that I know who are in their fifties.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
My boy friend is sixty five.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And it's like, you know what, they're not all like
like they're not on death's door here, Like there's some
pretty hot fifty year olds or six year olds and beyond. Anyway,
So I kind of liked him. I liked him because
he was adorable, and I liked him because he was
kind of like, I mean, he was like this, this
a lawyer, but he was doing like all this kind
of hippie trippy stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
For Yeah, he's like a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
He's like a work.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
It's like he was trying to fix himself and he
was doing all these I feel like he must have
had a million textbooks and stuff around him that he
just took a little bit of everything and just tried
to do everything all at once and like, yeah, I'm
gonna meditate and then I'm gonna do this, and I'm
gonna have essential oils and I'm gonna you know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So he was like this.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
This guy guy, but then he was like this guy
who was going on this other journey. And I really
connected with him and I thought that he you know,
and he showed up at the hospital when Mickey went
there and she's and he said, and she's like, how
are you here?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And he's like, well, I said, I said I was
your dad.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And I thought, oh, because you know, Micky just doesn't
have she doesn't let anybody be part of her life.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
You know, she doesn't have any friends.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
She's just I just felt so anyway, I just felt
for her so much. So I thought Tom kind of
kind of brought that father figure and he definitely came
through in the end. And for me, he was one
of the most interesting characters for me in the book.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
And he was so accessible, Like why is security not
stopping anyone to just go into his office?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Like is that what you could say?
Speaker 5 (08:29):
You could go to a building and say hi, I
just got to go drop something off for my boyfriend,
and they'll just let you and the security guard try.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
These women have come in to tell him the same thing,
like oh yeah, okay, Tom's girlfriend again.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
He was definitely an interesting character and always there for them,
right in a weird way, like you know, this is
your your person who's handling your estate, so it should
be a very professional relationship. And then they're all kind
of just friends and hanging out and he's coming to
the birthday party and uh yeah, very.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Interesting and i'd like to I think that you know,
there's still a lot about the father. We definitely know
a lot about the father, but you know, did he
and Tom hang out beyond their professional relationship, and did
Tom get to know him on a different level, And
that's why he has so much care and concern for
(09:25):
the daughters, for the girls, and that's why he's kind
of stepped in to protect them in some sort of
way as well.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I can't imagine having a secret like he knew what
the will, he knew the will was changed last minute,
and I can't imagine. Just you can't do anything when
your client wants to that's whatever they want to do right,
but he kind of so I think he felt responsible,
like you said, for both of them, although he couldn't
say anything. He couldn't couldn't say anything about what was happening.
(09:57):
And I don't know, like, did it work. Did the
father by cutting Arlow out of the will and giving
it all to Mickey but making it so that Mickey
had to do these seven sessions with her?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's so messed up. I I don't know. He was
so controlling all the way through to the end.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
Yeah, that part was interesting because I'm like, you know,
you just this person who cared for you. You know,
it could make sense if it was like, Okay, you
know you were promised five million, you're getting two and
a half, and it's like why, and then it's like,
you know, I'm giving some to your sister, but then
still making them kind of line up and get to
know each other and speak together. But yeah, there was
I still don't understand why she was completely cut out.
(10:36):
Like I get his you know, his feeling towards Mickey,
like he wasn't there for her and he wants to
just give her this life. But maybe he thought Arlow
will be fine. She's got a steady job, she'll get
some money from her mom, who's got money, and maybe
he was just like, I just need to give to
the child that I wasn't there for and who kind
of doesn't have their life together, so maybe this will help.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
But then it comes to that whole point.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Of like this book was very much around mental health
and addiction, and you know, the things that Morgan did
when it comes to the addiction and selling things in
pawn shops, like that was like a big it's a
big thing. It's a big conversation, and it's like someone
like that getting that kind of money needs the therapy
(11:22):
likely to be able to handle it better. Then maybe
they would know what to do with right.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Yeah, I wonder what would what would have happened had
Arlow not found out before the end of the sessions
that you know who Mickey was.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
You know, how would that have played out?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Would if they never figured out who they were, you
know their connection, would they have come together or I
just wonder what would have happened, you know, because she
found out, she snooped and she put two and two together.
But I just wonder how it would play out if
(12:07):
that barrier wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, like there was a barrier.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
But yeah, would they have been friends or can you
even be friends with a client?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I don't know that would be.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, that's an interesting thing. I'm not sure. I wonder, like, yeah,
this is about addiction and mean, all the things that
people go through, and also it's about you know, how
you how your childhood affects your life, you know, I
mean Arlow adored her dad, but her dad was was
you know, he was still a drunk. I don't know
(12:40):
how he got all that money. I actually would like
to know how he got all that money because he
seemed like such a I don't know how he did it,
but you know.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He was he was there, but he wasn't there. But
she adored him.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And but yet, you know, we found out that that
she her first you know, her marriage broke up because
he was never enough. She always had to get daddy's
approval right, and she kind of grew up like that.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And and Mickey, she never wanted to be her dad.
Her dad was not in her life.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
He left at age when she was seven, so she
was she spent her entire life trying not to be
like her dad. Yet she ends up becoming an alcoholic
although she doesn't really acknowledge it, like have you guys ever,
you know, like I remember, like I grew up with
alcoholism in my family, and I remember as an eleven
year old learning to disappear, you know, don't say anything,
(13:33):
don't draw attention, don't you know. So what that did
into my adult life is I wasn't as assertive as
I possibly you know, could have been.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And I'm working through that. But now I know why.
I know why I.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Don't put myself out there, because to be seen means
that somebody is going to say something to you and
it's going to be mean, and it's going to.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Be awful, and you just don't want that. So I get.
I totally get these two women.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
They they aren't really there was alt of their childhood
and they're trying to figure it out. But I mean
it it takes a while to figure out why you
are like you are, and then you know, go to counseling.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Counseling is a good thing. Counseling is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, And I think now like the definition of what,
like what is alcoholism? And you know, are there different stages?
Are there different types of alcoholics? I remember hearing from
her friend in college who was concerned for me and
for others in our group, who did what a lot
of university and college kids did was drink way too much.
(14:35):
If you know, we were consuming more than we could handle.
Not every night, but a lot of nights through the
school week, and you know, missing some classes. As I
was going through the book, I'm flashing back to some
of those times and thinking, oh, you know, she did
have a right to be concerned about us. At the time,
I thought, who do you like, are you calling us?
(14:57):
Are you telling us that we have a problem. We
don't have a problem. Look, we're fine, you know, for
a few days during the week, and then we just
you know, you know, start the party again later in
the week. But now I think, wow, I mean, I
don't drink a lot anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It's very rare.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
And to think about how much a young person's body
does consume at one point or another, it's a lot
to think about. And yeah, if she had taken us
all to counseling, I'm sure we would have been fine.
A little embarrassed we didn't because we just thought, you're
(15:36):
just being silly. But here's a young girl, Mickey, who
never really acknowledged and things are happening, and she's surprisingly
for the most part, safely got through her day. I mean,
there were a couple of incidents, but it's kind of
amazing how people can get through their days.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
Well, it's like you can function, right. There are some
people who will will have drinks or whatever substance is
and they'll just pass out and can't get up, and
they be kind of like that for days or however.
But then there are some people who can do this
and get up and go to work and do everything,
and it's a.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Part of life.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
They can still function, and so you don't sometimes realize,
but it's it comes back to a lot of the
conversations where we're always in this like especially like when
I you know, it was a new mom and stuff,
there's such a big mom like wine culture, Like everything
involved alcohol. So it was like, you know, we'd have
play dates and it was like, okay, let's have some
wine as the kids play. So it was like day
(16:32):
wine and then it was like, oh, you put your
kids to bed, you need to treat yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Have a glass of wine. And then you're going to
like baby showers they're serving wine.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
You're going to kids' birthday parties, they've got alcohol and this,
and so I'm like, it just becomes a situation where
alcohol is available at all these places. And you know,
if people can, you know, they're mindful and they know
it's fine. But for someone who struggles with it, it's
hard to break out of that cycle because it's always
(17:01):
around you. So I'm sure it can't be It can't
be easy because it's such a it's such a normalized thing.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Whereas before, like you said, deb it was.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Like it was like you wait till the weekend and
then you have your like Friday drink or your social
or you go out with your friends or like the
college days. But now if it's like at every you know, corner,
it's like you want to go for a boozy brunch,
It's like you can start whatever, you want to go
to happy hour. It's just it's such a normalized thing
that I think people don't realize like the dangers of it.
(17:30):
And you know, I think, you know, one of the
things it was that what is it It's a learned it's
a learned behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Addiction, It's not something it's a learned behavior. And I
wanted to ask the author about that. Yeah, like is
it a learned behavior? Is it hereditary? I don't know, yeah, because.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
If there was that pattern with her dad, is this
just something like we don't know, We don't know. If
it's something is like you do things that are there
because it's like genetics or just your brain makeup and
it lead you there or you know, you sometimes you
have the opposite cases where it's like if you had
a parent do something, You're like, I'm not going to
be that parent. I'm going to do the exact opposite,
and you can. But then sometimes in Morgan's case, she
(18:11):
didn't want to be that parent, and then she was
kind of that parent. Like we said, anyways, So yeah,
it's it's tricky to kind of understand it.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Yeah, And you know, the mental health, addiction, mental health.
You know, we found out about Arlow's former patient Laura,
who every time she met with her is like I'm.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Fine, I'm fine. We tell her parents, she's fine, what
are you going to do tomorrow?
Speaker 4 (18:37):
This?
Speaker 1 (18:37):
What are gonna do that? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Blah, and then we you know, she ends up killing
herself and it's like, gosh, how do you know when
somebody's really hurting, and can you help someone who doesn't
want to be helped.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I don't know, Like if there I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
With Laura, I mean the last session that she had
with Arlow, which we find out at the end of
the book, where Arlowe kind of shoved her out, she
had to get stuff for her dad, consumed with her dad,
you know, and then we find out, you know, that
she had all these plans Laura said, yeah, I'm doing
this and this and this, and she had every intention
of killing herself.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I don't know. That's just so.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Heartbreaking to me that you can't help somebody. And so
where does that go. Do you seek counseling because you
want help? Do you seek counseling because everybody says you need.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Help, and but in the end you don't want it.
I don't know. It's kind of sad when people are broken.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It is.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
And you know, Tanya, you mentioned you mentioned like when
you were younger, you know, it was like you stay quiet,
you don't really do that, And I think that was
a lot of the culture is if people had someone
in their family who was struggling with alcoholism or mental health,
it was just kind of like, Okay, well that's just
the way they are. Let's not you know, bring attention
to it. But I think now we're getting to a
place where the more people have these conversations about things,
(19:54):
then it can hopefully reach someone who needs help.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, you're so right, Like.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
You cannot help everyone because people will ultimately make the
choices they do. But talking about it as if it's
not a bad we're you know, we talk about it
differently Now. Before it was like, oh, so and so
is an alcoholic, they're right off, I remember growing up.
But now it's like, this is a real disease, this
is a real problem, this is real addiction. Like how
do we help these people or how can we guide
(20:21):
someone who's struggling? And I guess that's the you know,
as long as there's still continues to be resources available
and the mental health is so it's so great. There
are so many conversations around mental health. Like growing up,
you know, if I was feeling a certain way or anxious,
like I didn't know how to express that to my
family and to my parents, like you just kind of
(20:41):
dealt with it. And now with my kids, I try
to pick up on those cues and like if it's
been like we sometimes I'll say, if it's been a
really busy weekend or they just feel run down because
kids are busy these days.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
They do sports and they do all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
On Monday, my son was like, I just want to
stay home. And he's like, I'm like, do you kind
of need like a mental health day? Like do you
just want to like and he's like yeah, And he
never does this, it's not a thing we do. But
I was like, you know what, I'm going to let
him kind of have this day to just relax. I mean,
he's nine years old, he's not going to miss a
lot of stuff. And it was good and then he
was ready and off to the races. But it's like
sometimes we need those days. Sometimes we need a day
(21:16):
to just recoup, do something for ourselves, rest our body,
because we are in such a busy cycle of world
and work that I think it's when your mental health
starts to suffer, it's it's a problem.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, and it's and it happens to kids, right, which
I never really I don't think that's ever. Now it's
being addressed, like Simone, like you said, you know you
kind of took notice, and.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
But I don't remember like growing up saying.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Can I stay home because I'm not you know, I
just need a day to.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
My head's not right, I'm not.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, we're definitely, I think we're moving in the right direction. Yeah,
we're moving in the right direction of being more in
tune with what's happening with people, maybe paying a little
bit more attention to people our friend kids, you know,
parents and grandparents, friends, and trying to do whatever we
can to help them.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's weird because with Mickey as a.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
Highly functioning alcoholic, Like, there's people like that too, right
who have issues. But you know she strength vodka because
you couldn't smell it, and wow, and she's.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Taking care of She's a kindergarten to know.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Honestly, I think the difference today is that you know,
people aren't afraid to point it out and recognize that
there will be a strain on this relationship, but it
is worth it, you know, compared to what the you know,
ulterior or the alternative might be if you just skip
(22:41):
over it and just keep pushing it to the side.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Great read really enjoyed it and so excited that we
will chat with the author of Favorite Daughter, Morgan Dick
on our next Relaxing Reads podcast. Until then, have a
good one.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Thank you for kicking back and relaxing with us. We
hope you'll join us again on Relaxing Reads.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!