February 16, 2020 • 9 mins
Learn evidence-based ways to feel happier and more engaged. Although what you do for a living matters, how you do it is even more important.
If you would like to learn more, here are some resources:
https://positivepsychology.com/what-is-flow/
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (1990). Flow: The psychology of optimal experience. New York: Harper Perennial.
https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1999-11644-003
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[ music].
Hi, this is Rob Sepich, andwelcome to Relaxing with Rob.
There's a fun state ofconsciousness that research
shows can lead to happiness.
(00:20):
It goes beyond relaxation.
Mindfulness is a component, butit also goes beyond that.
It's a combination ofconcentration and deep
enjoyment.
It's like being in the zonewhere time stands still.
I learned about this from agraduate student who did some
(00:40):
work with MihalyCsikszentmihalyi when he was at
the University of Chicago.
He's a leader in the positivepsychology movement, and he's
the person who first describedthe state of"flow," or"optimal
experience." So today I'd liketo tell you about it and offer a
couple ideas on how to cultivateit.
Some background: Csikszentmihalyi studied people (01:01):
undefined
around the world, with his groupconducting more than 10,000
interviews of folks at everysocioeconomic status level to
understand the components offlow.
If you're a visual person,picture a simple graph with your
(01:22):
skills on the horizontal axisand challenges of the job on the
vertical axis.
If a low-challenge task requireslow skills, you feel apathy; you
just don't care.
But if the challenges become toohigh and your skills to do it
(01:42):
are still pretty low, yourfeeling shifts in the direction
of anxiety.
You're in over your head.
And this makes it pretty hard tolearn, because you're just
focused on reducing stress.
But if you're highly trained forsomething, so your skills are
high and the challenges of thejob are high--we're talking the
(02:04):
upper right hand portion of thegraph.
That's the recipe for flow.
What happens is we becomeinvested in what we're doing and
our attention is focused.
Our self-consciousness vanishes.
Now an air traffic controllerwho thinks,"Oh, I'm just pushing
(02:24):
tin," might not be very happy onthe job.
Or surgeons who feel likethey're just on an assembly line
completing yet anotherprocedure--also not happy.
Yet, there are actual assemblyline workers who love their
jobs, always try to improvetheir performance, you know,
above the company'srequirements.
(02:46):
They want to cross train ondifferent parts of the line and
they feel they serve a crucialrole in making great products,
and they are routinely in astate of flow.
So it's less about what you doand more about how you do it.
In the movie"In Good Company,"the character that Scarlett
(03:07):
Johansson portrays is, amongother things, a really good
tennis player.
And in one brief scene, herboyfriend played by Topher Grace
is playing tennis with her forthe first time--and probably the
only time.
Johansson is so much better thanher boyfriend that we see him
first kind of sweating, divingfor the ball, running back from
(03:30):
side to side.
And then we see her, calmlystanding still, holding a coffee
in one hand and hitting the ballback and forth with the other.
It just no fun for her whenthere's such a mismatch in skill
level.
Probably no fun for him, either.
Has that happened to you in asport or some other competition,
(03:52):
maybe in high school or college?
Your team was so much betterthan a competitor that winning
wasn't really satisfying?
Or on the other hand, asituation where no matter how
hard you tried, you just didn'thave the skill level to match
your competition?
(04:12):
It even happens in spectatorsports where fans leave early
during blowouts, even if theirteam is winning.
To most people, being an airtraffic controller, or a nuclear
physicist, or an ER physiciansounds stressful.
But if you feel prepared foryour work and fully engaged with
(04:34):
it, you might feel challengedbut it's not stressful.
And by the way, some might thinkthat being an assembly line
worker does not sound stressful,but think again.
At least for many workers,especially if you have no
control and unrealistic demandson your time.
That reminds me, have I evermentioned that I used to work in
(04:58):
a blanket factory--until itfolded?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I know I'm a card; I should bedealt with.
Okay, and now back to our topic.
In research on flow, the jobitself is a factor, but it's
only a factor.
It doesn't determine whether ornot you're in a state of flow.
(05:21):
For your convenience, I'veplaced a reference to one of
Csikszentmihalyi's articles inthe show notes as well as the
name of one of his books.
And these are non-affiliatelinks, so if you do purchase
anything, I don't receiveanything.
Here's an amalgam of what theresearch team heard from people
(05:41):
who are regularly in a state offlow.
It goes something like this:"Youcould say I worked every minute
of my life, and with equaljustice you could say I never
worked a day." So think aboutsituations when you become so
involved with the activityitself that you lose track of
(06:02):
time, and of yourself.
Rock climbers describe this.
So do parents of newborns whenthey're holding their babies.
So do jazz musicians anddancers.
When you're this engaged withwhat you're doing, you don't
have a chance to worry.
In a 2017[NPR] podcast called"How I Built This," Zumba was
(06:27):
described at about the 20-minutemark of most classes as"FEJ,"
Freeing, Electrifying Joy.
When participants totally losethemselves in the music and
dance.
That's another example of flow.
But if you ask my friends, wethink it happens during the
first song.
(06:47):
If you're one of the lucky oneswho often find themselves in a
state of flow, you already knowhow to get there.
But if this is something new andyou'd like to give it a try,
here's an experiment that I usedto offer to my students with two
options.
Option one (07:03):
if you're anxious about a high-challenge task, see
if you can get more skilled atit.
Get extra training or takeanother class.
Ask a supervisor for someguidance.
Ask a friend for help.
Watch some YouTube videos.
Basically, sharpen your skillsto meet the challenge, and your
(07:26):
anxiety will fade.
So I think that relaxation isnot always the answer.
Sometimes it's becoming moreprepared.
Option two (07:38):
if you're bored with a low-challenge task or job that
feels routine and you don't needbetter skills, increase the
challenge of it.
It could be by using yournon-dominant hand, like in the
famous fencing scene of"ThePrincess Bride." Or using a
foreign language to do the task,or inventing a number game while
(08:01):
you're working.
Or asking for a new role on yourjob, or maybe an entirely new
job.
I think the options are onlylimited by your imagination.
Here's a tiny thing I would doalong these lines.
I used to challenge myself tolearn the names of my students
(08:23):
by the second class eachsemester.
But then when photo rostersbecame available to instructors,
it made it much easier.
So I learned them by the firstclass.
This helped me connect thingsthey were saying with each other
by name, right from the start.
And I have a friend with a greatsense of humor.
We used to co-present anorientation session to a group
(08:45):
on campus each semester, andhe'd use a different joke to
illustrate a fact every time.
And since it was a new group ofstudents, he didn't need to, but
he told me he did it for me justto get a fresh laugh each time
we worked together.
But I'm sure he was also doingit for flow.
So remember, the state of flowis within reach for all of us,
(09:10):
and it can really make life alot more fun.
So I hope you'll play aroundwith this.
Thank you for listening, andwe'll talk again soon.
[ music].
Hi, this is Rob Sepich, andwelcome to Relaxing with Rob.
There's a fun state ofconsciousness that research
shows can lead to happiness.
(00:20):
It goes beyond relaxation.
Mindfulness is a component, butit also goes beyond that.
It's a combination ofconcentration and deep
enjoyment.
It's like being in the zonewhere time stands still.
I learned about this from agraduate student who did some
(00:40):
work with MihalyCsikszentmihalyi when he was at
the University of Chicago.
He's a leader in the positivepsychology movement, and he's
the person who first describedthe state of"flow," or"optimal
experience." So today I'd liketo tell you about it and offer a
couple ideas on how to cultivateit.
Some background: Csikszentmihalyi studied people (01:01):
undefined
around the world, with his groupconducting more than 10,000
interviews of folks at everysocioeconomic status level to
understand the components offlow.
If you're a visual person,picture a simple graph with your
(01:22):
skills on the horizontal axisand challenges of the job on the
vertical axis.
If a low-challenge task requireslow skills, you feel apathy; you
just don't care.
But if the challenges become toohigh and your skills to do it
(01:42):
are still pretty low, yourfeeling shifts in the direction
of anxiety.
You're in over your head.
And this makes it pretty hard tolearn, because you're just
focused on reducing stress.
But if you're highly trained forsomething, so your skills are
high and the challenges of thejob are high--we're talking the
(02:04):
upper right hand portion of thegraph.
That's the recipe for flow.
What happens is we becomeinvested in what we're doing and
our attention is focused.
Our self-consciousness vanishes.
Now an air traffic controllerwho thinks,"Oh, I'm just pushing
(02:24):
tin," might not be very happy onthe job.
Or surgeons who feel likethey're just on an assembly line
completing yet anotherprocedure--also not happy.
Yet, there are actual assemblyline workers who love their
jobs, always try to improvetheir performance, you know,
above the company'srequirements.
(02:46):
They want to cross train ondifferent parts of the line and
they feel they serve a crucialrole in making great products,
and they are routinely in astate of flow.
So it's less about what you doand more about how you do it.
In the movie"In Good Company,"the character that Scarlett
(03:07):
Johansson portrays is, amongother things, a really good
tennis player.
And in one brief scene, herboyfriend played by Topher Grace
is playing tennis with her forthe first time--and probably the
only time.
Johansson is so much better thanher boyfriend that we see him
first kind of sweating, divingfor the ball, running back from
(03:30):
side to side.
And then we see her, calmlystanding still, holding a coffee
in one hand and hitting the ballback and forth with the other.
It just no fun for her whenthere's such a mismatch in skill
level.
Probably no fun for him, either.
Has that happened to you in asport or some other competition,
(03:52):
maybe in high school or college?
Your team was so much betterthan a competitor that winning
wasn't really satisfying?
Or on the other hand, asituation where no matter how
hard you tried, you just didn'thave the skill level to match
your competition?
(04:12):
It even happens in spectatorsports where fans leave early
during blowouts, even if theirteam is winning.
To most people, being an airtraffic controller, or a nuclear
physicist, or an ER physiciansounds stressful.
But if you feel prepared foryour work and fully engaged with
(04:34):
it, you might feel challengedbut it's not stressful.
And by the way, some might thinkthat being an assembly line
worker does not sound stressful,but think again.
At least for many workers,especially if you have no
control and unrealistic demandson your time.
That reminds me, have I evermentioned that I used to work in
(04:58):
a blanket factory--until itfolded?
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I know I'm a card; I should bedealt with.
Okay, and now back to our topic.
In research on flow, the jobitself is a factor, but it's
only a factor.
It doesn't determine whether ornot you're in a state of flow.
(05:21):
For your convenience, I'veplaced a reference to one of
Csikszentmihalyi's articles inthe show notes as well as the
name of one of his books.
And these are non-affiliatelinks, so if you do purchase
anything, I don't receiveanything.
Here's an amalgam of what theresearch team heard from people
(05:41):
who are regularly in a state offlow.
It goes something like this:"Youcould say I worked every minute
of my life, and with equaljustice you could say I never
worked a day." So think aboutsituations when you become so
involved with the activityitself that you lose track of
(06:02):
time, and of yourself.
Rock climbers describe this.
So do parents of newborns whenthey're holding their babies.
So do jazz musicians anddancers.
When you're this engaged withwhat you're doing, you don't
have a chance to worry.
In a 2017[NPR] podcast called"How I Built This," Zumba was
(06:27):
described at about the 20-minutemark of most classes as"FEJ,"
Freeing, Electrifying Joy.
When participants totally losethemselves in the music and
dance.
That's another example of flow.
But if you ask my friends, wethink it happens during the
first song.
(06:47):
If you're one of the lucky oneswho often find themselves in a
state of flow, you already knowhow to get there.
But if this is something new andyou'd like to give it a try,
here's an experiment that I usedto offer to my students with two
options.
Option one (07:03):
if you're anxious about a high-challenge task, see
if you can get more skilled atit.
Get extra training or takeanother class.
Ask a supervisor for someguidance.
Ask a friend for help.
Watch some YouTube videos.
Basically, sharpen your skillsto meet the challenge, and your
(07:26):
anxiety will fade.
So I think that relaxation isnot always the answer.
Sometimes it's becoming moreprepared.
Option two (07:38):
if you're bored with a low-challenge task or job that
feels routine and you don't needbetter skills, increase the
challenge of it.
It could be by using yournon-dominant hand, like in the
famous fencing scene of"ThePrincess Bride." Or using a
foreign language to do the task,or inventing a number game while
(08:01):
you're working.
Or asking for a new role on yourjob, or maybe an entirely new
job.
I think the options are onlylimited by your imagination.
Here's a tiny thing I would doalong these lines.
I used to challenge myself tolearn the names of my students
(08:23):
by the second class eachsemester.
But then when photo rostersbecame available to instructors,
it made it much easier.
So I learned them by the firstclass.
This helped me connect thingsthey were saying with each other
by name, right from the start.
And I have a friend with a greatsense of humor.
We used to co-present anorientation session to a group
(08:45):
on campus each semester, andhe'd use a different joke to
illustrate a fact every time.
And since it was a new group ofstudents, he didn't need to, but
he told me he did it for me justto get a fresh laugh each time
we worked together.
But I'm sure he was also doingit for flow.
So remember, the state of flowis within reach for all of us,
(09:10):
and it can really make life alot more fun.
So I hope you'll play aroundwith this.
Thank you for listening, andwe'll talk again soon.
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