Ichabod and Mr. Toad (75th) & Sleepy Hollow (25th)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Straw Hut Media welcome listeners to release date Rewind, a
podcast that celebrates milestone movie anniversaries, and this episode is
a real Halloween treat for you. I'm your host, Mark J. Parker,

(00:26):
a movie lover and movie maker, and I hope you've
been enjoying spooky season. Thank you for listening to this
show on the straw Hut Media Network wherever you get
your podcasts, or watching on YouTube. Each episode, I like
to bring on a friend or two to discuss something
we both love from the past, and something my guest
and I love is the legend of Sleepy Hollow by

(00:48):
Washington Irving. So naturally we're talking about not one, but
two film adaptations of the classic scary story, the first
from Disney in nineteen forty nine for its seventy five
fifth anniversary this month, and the second from Tim Burton
in nineteen ninety nine for its twenty fifth anniversary Doubled
the Headless Horseman, Double the Fun Right now if you

(01:11):
want to watch or rewatch these movies, Disney's Adventures of
Ichabod and Mister Toad is streaming on you Guessed It,
Disney Plus, while Burton's Sleepy Hollow is currently on Paramount
Plus and AMC Plus in October. All right, school teachers, constables,
and townsfolk, dim the lights and gather around, because it's

(01:33):
time to rewind. I am so happy to have a
new friend on the show today, someone who's never been
on release date rewind. But I have followed him and

(01:54):
his work for I feel like a couple of years
I've known about you. And not only is he a
horror filmmaker, he has a podcast as well. He loves
all things horror and movies, I'm sure of all different genres.
But everybody, please welcome Christopher Wesley Moore to the show.
Hi Chris, Hi, thank you so much for being here.
So how long have you been doing your podcast? Tell

(02:16):
us anyone out there who is listening who doesn't know
who you are, tell us about your podcast, and how
long have you guys been doing it?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I think we're going on year five. We started. It
was like right after covid started and Kevin Contact tact
tacted me and was like, do you want to do
a podcast? I was like, I've never thought about it,
you know, And but I had all this time, you know,
as we all did. Right of course, you know why not,
and so we had sort of similar taste and and

(02:44):
I thought this might be fun. And and yes, we're
on year five almost. I think it'll be year five
and April or May. I think, yeah, that's amazing since
the lockdown, Like that's kind of at a decade.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Isn't that wild? I know, I'm like that was just
two years ago, and you're like, oh no, actually like
double that and more. Yeah, I know, that's that's great.
So you guys started pretty much like right away, and
how did how do you guys know each other? How
did you know each other?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
For a long time? It was a Facebook thing. That's
the weird part about social media is you get in
introduced to all these people that you would maybe never
meet otherwise, which is the great part, you know. And
and we just we seem to have similar tastes. I remember, like,
you know, he would share something about a movie and
I'd say, oh my god, I love that movie. No

(03:33):
one ever talks about that. And then I would do
the same and he and he would say, oh, no
one ever talked about that one. And we kind of realized, oh,
we liked some of the same stuff, and wouldn't it
be nice if there was a place where people talked
about these kinds of things, and so like, I think
our first episodes were like hell Night and Killer Party
and movies that really no one talks about that much,

(03:55):
and we were like, oh, we're gonna try.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
And yeah, I love it. Yeah, everybody homos on Haunted Hill.
What a title. Like as soon as I found it,
I'm like, Okay, I have to follow these guys. I
feel like they are my people. They're speaking my language.
Love it and that's great.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
That's what's really cool about not only just kind of
like film lovers online, but especially like film love loving podcasters,
Like I feel like I've been able to make like
great friends, like you know, new friends, and just like
I'm a fan of other people's work and it's fun
to like just chat about like silly film stuff with
you with all sorts of people.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
So it is really nice to kind of even if
you're in an area or like when it was the lockdown,
like where you might not be you know, around like
many real life human friends, at least you have this
great community online, you know of nerds like us. Right, Yeah,
I love that.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I love that, you know, I mean there's so much.
You could say the negative about social needs. Oh, of course,
but I think I still believe the pros outweigh the cons,
you know, because you get you get to meet all
these people and I and I've been fortunate enough to
meet a few in person. And I was always like, oh,
this is gonna be so weird because I've known them online,
but are they going to in person? And sure enough,

(05:08):
every single one is exactly as you would hope. It's Oh,
it's so good.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's like online dating, or it's like back in the
day with like AOL chat rooms. Did you ever Were
you ever one of those kids where like you made contact.
I never met anyone in person, but I did like
share phone numbers with like a couple people from chatrooms,
which is not great. Why did we do that? Did
you ever do anything like that?

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I would go on to certain chatrooms, like I remember
a friend of mine and I this was before I
came out. This is just shameful. We would go on
the gay chat chat chatrooms because we thought it was funny,
you know, like, oh, yeah, the gaze, I wonder what
the gays are talking about. You know, there was one
person I met I can't remember where I met her.

(05:53):
I don't know if it was her, could have been
a hymn, could have been a kay. I don't know,
because you never knew, you know, this was it was
all a non and this was a girl. I think
she was like a year younger than my sister. My
sister is six years older than me, so about five
years older than me. And we would talk about, like
I think it was. I think it was bonding over
fairy Tale theater.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, oh my god, I wish I was part of
that comvo.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Yes, it was fun. And this was back when I
don't think they were on DVD yet, So we would
send each other VHS copies that we would dupe and
like mail them to each each each other. It was
very weird, very.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Oh my god. Yeah, that brings me back. Wow, you
just brought me back to Yeah, the nineties were like before,
Like because you're an actor as well, we have to
talk about that in a minute. But like back in
the day when there were self tapes kind of before
there were self tapes. Now it's, of course it's so easy,
but like you, yeah, you would like figure out a
way to record yourself on a VHS tape and mail it,
and so that just brought me back when you said

(06:53):
you would mail. Oh my god, I love that. I
had the whole fairy Tale Theater collection on DVD. Rip Shelley.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Oh my god, what a special show, right, she was magnificent.
Just I mean, I think that show is probably one
of the first really inspirational shows that I saw when
I was a kid that made me think, I want
to do this. You know, I want to act, I
want to write, I want to direct, I want to
do this all because you know, she did it all.
She was, you know, producing this and starring and getting

(07:23):
all of her great friends to help hell help route.
And it was a time when TV, especially like cable TV,
just wasn't really a thing. It was kind of like
a weird, little off, offshoot thing. And and just that's
that she pulled in there. Like you look at the
roster of all the people on there's like Robin Williams

(07:43):
and Vanessa Redgrave, Terry Garr like just unbelievable casts.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
My god, and I can as you're as you're like
listing the names, I can picture them in their episodes.
I remember those episodes. Vanessa Redgrave, I remember she kind
of scared me as a kid as.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That right, Oh she was so scary.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
That was so oh fierce. That was like that was
maybe maybe she was the first fierce like villain I
really saw as a kid, like, whoa, she is giving
it her all right.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
So yeah, come to think of it, that might have
been one of mine too.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, right where you're like really taken aback by like
you are a scary lady.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
She was committing hard. This wasn't like a little, you know,
one hour right children's TV show basically on Showtime, which
was like what was showtime? You know? I know she
was like, I'm going to stand here with my buddy
Vincent Price, and we're gonna ham it up and have
a real time.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
So you act, you write, you direct. Everybody Chris like
has multiple films under his belt. It's amazing. I've only
made some shorts. You have made many features. Your latest feature,
When the trash Man Knocks. What a title. Wow, it
is something, When the trash Man Knock. So you wrote, directed,
you star in this, you produced it, of course, so

(08:56):
I was watching it on two B. It's got great.
I have to commend you on the Great Halloween. John
Carpenter homages that you're doing with some of these shots,
with some of the I don't want to, like, you know,
spoil a thing. But how's all that going on the
filmmaking side for you?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Oh, it's it's great. I'm in the middle of writing
my next one, which hopefully all start to shoot early
next year. I hope. I'm gonna knock on this is
not made of wood. But I'm just gonna talk on
something and it's it's gonna be super fun. It's a
kind of a very sort of Southern gothic gay shallow

(09:32):
murder mystery with lots of style and blood and sexiness.
And I'm just I can't wait. It's gonna be wow.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Oh my gosh, I'm ready. I am so ready. You
let me know if you need me in any capacity.
That's amazing. That is so cool. So do you mostly
make your films?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
How many?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
How many have you made?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Now?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
I was looking at your IMDb and I'm like, whoaw five?
Are you like me? Where You've been writing like scary
stories and scripts for ever since you were like a kid?

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, I mean I but before I really wrote, I
would have I would get my parents to go to
every fast food place that we possibly could. And every
time we would go through, like one time, I would
ask for the boy toy, the next time, I'd ask
for the girl toy. And I would accumulate all these
little action figures and I would I would put them

(10:22):
on my carpet in my room and I would you know,
move them around and give them all these voices and stuff,
and I would tell stories with them, you know. And
so that was really the first time I would And
for some reason, I always had a big cup of
water which I would pretend was a vat of acid.
I think because I saw House on Haunted Hill where
you know, they have the big acida in the basement.

(10:45):
So at the end of every story, I would push
the bad character into the bat of acid, and that's
how they would die.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
I don't know, can you please we okay, that's one
of your next shorts. At least you need you need
to actually shoot with like some toys, and you gotta
get the cup. Then I love that. You know what
also probably made you think of like a vat of acid?
I feel like, and I haven't seen this movie in
a while, but of course it's a classic Who framed

(11:13):
Roger Rabbit? That was that was a big deal of
course in the late eighties, right, I'm pretty sure. Yes,
So maybe that was also kind of you know, on
TV as as you were a kid and all that.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
You know, probably I did watch that a lot, so
maybe you know, oh that was such such a great movie.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh my god, so great and that and that acid
I remember was like, whoa, this is like super intense
for you know, a sort of kids movie, you know.
But yeah, so maybe that was also in your in
your wheelhouse there. I love that. Yeah. I've been writing
since I was a kid. I wish I could write more.
I'm so impressed with anyone who can make an indie feature.
I've worked on a few. I've never like, you know,

(11:51):
written and directed a feature. But man, I mean, how
long did it take you to make uh one of
trash Man Knocks? To shoot it?

Speaker 2 (11:57):
The shooting, I think we started in March of twenty
twenty three, and I think we were wrapped by I
think mid to late May. So it was kind of
and it was the kind of shoot I haven't really
done before where we would shoot for like a week,
and then we would take some time off, and then
we'd shoot for two two days here, one day there,

(12:19):
come back and do more. It was. It was really
odd because I think everyone had kind of a pretty
packed schedule. So one actor couldn't work on the film
until April, so we had to wait for her to
do all of her stuff, and then we shaw all
of her stuff NonStop in like one week, and then
it was kind of sort it was a really weird
way to make a movie. But it was fun. It

(12:40):
was really really fun. It wasn't a very tough shoot.
It was. It was great. Everyone seemed to have a
pretty good time. It was. It was it was heavy.
I think it was the heaviest, the heaviest role I've
played so far, and I think I I didn't know
that it was going to be so kind of depressing,
like interesting, I'm gonna go shoot this and then I'm

(13:03):
gonna go back home and I'll be fine. And it
was just sort of like, oh man, it's hard to
let know of this character. So that was that was
kind of different. It was. It was a little tough, but.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Plus it's gotta be so hard. I've never done it,
although now I really want to. I've never directed myself.
I mean, like cause you know, directing, writing, producing, all
that kind of stuff, especially when you have a very
little budget. You know, that's a lot of work. And
then you're also acting, so you're really relying on your crew.
And like you said, yeah, this role, I mean you're

(13:34):
you got some trauma for sure, you got some grieving
and like lots of tension. So yeah, that's a lot
of work you put on yourself.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
It was a lot. Yeah, I think I've I've learned
my lesson and yeah, I think i'll be because for
some reason, Yeah, I thought this was gonna be more
of like a supporting role as I was writing it,
and then all of a sudden, I realized, oh, it's
pretty evenly split between my character and the character of
my mother, and yeah, I don't I don't think I

(14:02):
realized that at the time, And so I was like,
this is really stressful. I don't like this anymore. You're like.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
A lot of pages. It'll just be an hour, right.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah. So I think with the next one, I've got
a role for myself, but it's a little more of
a supporting and yet a much more fun part. To think.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
You tell anyone who doesn't know what is what is
the film about? And where can we find it?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, Well, it is When the trash Man Knox. It's
streaming on two B and I think Roku as well,
and it's also available on Amazon. We just put out
a DVD in a blue ray which you can get
on Kunaki.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Right.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have a link for that on my Instagram page.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Okay, great, I'll share it for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Thank you. It's about this kid who years ago killed
his father and his father's lover and chopped them up,
stuck them into a trash bag. He was locked away,
he escaped, he went on a rampage. Now it's twenty
years after that, and to people that survived this, the
character of Justin who I who I play, and his

(15:05):
mother Caroline are trying to pick up the pieces. Caroline
is a gorphobic. She doesn't want to want to leave
the house. They had to move back in with her mom,
who is just this horrible, abusive, manipulative woman. And Justin's
trying to basically do the opposite as his mom, which
is basically run away from everything. So he's very much,

(15:25):
you know, the the Star pupil where he works. He's
just gotten a promotion, but then there's there's news that
there's some bodies that have been found chopped up in
trash bags and people start thinking, oh, he might be back,
and of course, because it's a horror film, he is back,
and now they're gonna have to deal with it. So

(15:47):
it's you know.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
There's a kill everybody. There is some I mean will
be right back. Well, Chris Good, I'm glad you're doing
all sorts of cool stuff. Now, everybody, we're gonna talk
a little bit less about indie film. We're gonna rewind
to a long, long time ago, all right, and we're
gonna celebrate. Chris and I are going to celebrate Halloween.

(16:12):
It is spooky season. October, of course, is already upon us.
Halloween is approaching, and we're going to Sleepy Hollow, everybody.
We are first going to talk about the seventy five
year old great one of my favorites. Disney animated The

(16:35):
Legend of Sleepy Hollow, which was part of an anthology film,
The Adventures of Ikabat and Mister Toad. We are going
back to October fifth, nineteen forty nine. Now you might
have seen, Chris. The release date for this movie is
a little iffy because, like some sites say October fifth,
October eighth, some say January of nineteen fifty, a few
months later. So I always try to go for, like

(16:55):
when I'm talking on the show about like a film,
I try to go for like the widest release. Kind
of hard to fit figure that out. So it was
appropriate to just say October fifth. We're just going to
keep it in October.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
You know why not?

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Right, So the Adventures of Ichabod and Mister Toad, everybody.
Before we get into why we love this movie, I'm
going to talk very briefly. I'm going to set the
scene for you. So other movies that Disney had released
leading up to this were fun and fancy, Free Melody Time,
and a movie I hadn't heard of. So, dear to
my heart, had you heard of that Disney movie?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
No?

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Right? Oh no, yeah, the other two I probably have seen,
definitely have heard animated. So, and this was right before Cinderella,
which is so funny because rewatching it and I've seen
this like a bunch, but it had been a while.
Were watching it. Katrina is basically it looks like looks right.
They were like, all right, just copy Katrina's face on Cinderella.

(17:47):
And one of the directors for this worked on He
directed Cinderella, so it makes sense a lot of the same.
DNA is like, yeah, and it makes sense. I'm sure
you're an animator. You know, it's seventy five years ago,
so computers were not around, so you're doing this all
by hand, you know. It's like, yeah, I just use
the same face, right, use the same road, right, So
it's good, right, Yeah, it's a good face. She's hey,

(18:08):
Ichabod's in to her. She's beauty, right. So those movies
had just come out before this one, and then I
thought this was fun on TV. The Lone Ranger had
just premiered on ABC, so that, of course was a
big deal at the time. You know started it's I
think it was on for maybe six to ten years
or something like that, so you know that started. It's

(18:28):
run right around this time, and the number one song.
I didn't recognize this song, but it's very kind of
like Johnny Cash, like kind of like an old kind
of Western song, a song called Riders in the Sky
by Vaughn Monroe. That was the number one song at
the time.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
So I don't think I've heard.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Well, right, I hadn't heard of it, but I played
a little snippet of it and it's very like, you know,
deep voiced, you know, don't you know that kind of thing.
So okay, Yeah, so that was what was going on
that was popular at the time. Incomes the Ventures of
Ikabat and Mister Toad. So Chris, why I'm gonna throw
it over to you, like I do everyone in your
own words. It can be brief, it can be a

(19:06):
log line. Let's focus mostly on the legend of Sleepy
Hollow because you know, Wind in the Willows Mister Toad.
That's fun. But you know, I wasn't ever really all
that crazy about that.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Part of this.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's always fall asleep during that.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, it's funny that they led with that, you know,
that's the first I'm like, I guess they're like trying
to finish strong. But it's like and no shade, it's fun.
It's fun to kind of it's like immediately nostalgic. But
I think we're all we're all like, we want to
see the Headless Horseman, you know, so right, so we'll
we'll kind of skip over Wind in the Willows and

(19:41):
mister Toad and all of his furry friends. But in
your own words, Chris, for anyone out there who doesn't
know the story of Sleepy Hollow, at least the Disney version,
feel free to give us your log line.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
What is this about, Well, it's about a school teacher
named Ichabod Crane who comes to a small town Sleepy Hollow,
and he's immediately taken with a young lady who is
unfortunately quite popular in the town, especially with a certain
sort of hunky guy who really wants her all to himself,

(20:14):
and so to kind of scare him away from the competition,
this guy decides to tell ike above the story of
the Headless Horseman and how he rides in the woods
and you have to make it past the bridge if
you want, if you want to be safe. And on
his way back that night from this party where he

(20:36):
was told the story, he discovers that the legend might
be true.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh yes, oh what a good what a great like
ending to your explanation, Yes, exactly makes me want to
know more. And of course it's based on as is
Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow that we'll talk about in a bit,
which definitely takes some liberties. But this one is, you know,
really based on Washington Irving's short story from years ago.
Did you ever read it, Chris.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I think I remember reading it maybe second or third grade,
because last night, as I was wah watching them both,
I was like, I think, in I think in the
story he is a school teacher, right, and then in Yes,
Tim Burton when he's the constable. But I just kept thinking, like,
am I wrong? Here? Was he a constable in the

(21:21):
original story. It's been so long now that I can't
really remember.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Especially when the Tim Burton film is now kind of
the most famous iteration besides the short story, of course,
but you know, you know, on film or on video, right, yeah, yeah,
school teacher. I was in a high school production of
what did we call it? I guess it was called
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. There are so many different versions,
and I played one of his students, and because Dawson's

(21:49):
Creek was popular and I kind of looked like Dawson,
we changed my name to My name was Walter van something,
but everyone just said Walter Vanderbeek, so I think they.
I don't think it was in the program. Maybe it was.
I forgot. That was fun, though, but it was fun
being one of his students. I just I've always loved
this story ever since I found it, and I'm not

(22:11):
sure exactly when I discovered it. It might have been
this short film maybe playing on the Disney Channel. How
do you think you kind of started falling in love
with the headless horsemen and all this stuff, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think it might have been the same for me.
I remember there was a special on the Disney Channel
every Halloween. It was just called a Disney Halloween. Oh Yes,
and it was like a compilation of all the scary
moments from Disney films or animated shorts and stuff. And
I think I remember this one being a part of it,
and they released it on video under the title Disney's

(22:45):
Halloween Treat, which they changed some things. I think there's
a different narrator. There's a lot of differences. It's much shorter.
I think it's like forty five minutes, I think, But
I remember in both of them they heavily featured this
particular story, and I think that was the first time
I saw it. In terms of seeing it all together

(23:05):
as a whole, I'm not positive, but I think there
was at my video store that we went to as
a kid, there was one of those Disney clamshells. It
just had this story. I don't think it had mister Toad.
I think it was just the legend of Sleepy Hollow.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
I could be wrong, but probably because I had I
kind of remembered them being separate and together, Like I
knew about this this short before the Wind and the
Willows one. So and I and I had read online
and maybe you did two like sometimes like they would
be yeah, sold steparately or aired separately and then sometimes together.
And you know, I guess when they were separate, they

(23:44):
just kind of had a slightly different like intro outro
with the narrator and the in the library of the
books and all that, you know. But yeah, yeah, I
guess that's how we probably discovered it. I loved that
Halloween compilation that Disney did. I guess they started doing
that in like the eighties, but they would air it
in the nineties. When I was watching, I loved it,
and I never knew what it was called. So I

(24:05):
feel like for years, as I was getting like older,
into my teens, I was like, yeah, I just want
to find that. But you know, and this was before
you know, we had so much access to like figuring
out what things were, you know, So I was like
Why isn't Disney like playing that anymore. I loved it,
where like they would show highlights of like all the
Disney villains, you know, I remember, especially like Hook and

(24:26):
you know the Witch from Snow White with Apple and
all the creepy stuff. Right.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was great yet because for the longest time I
would watch it every Halloween. It was a tradition. And
then at a certain point Disney stopped showing it. And
I remember that there was a narrator. There was the
magic Mirror from Snow White. And then I was in
the video store once and I saw this this box

(24:50):
and it said Disney's Halloween Treat and I thought, this
is this is it, this is the special. I was
so excited and I played it and there was a
different narrator. It was like a top pumpk and I
was like, huh. And they changed up on the stuff
and moved things are are around and it was it's
a totally different version because sort of the same basic gist,

(25:12):
but it's just the clips are kind of different. There's
a different narrator, different music.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
So weird, very odd.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, they would do that a lot because they also
had a lot of Christmas specials. That were similar, with
like clips from all their I don't know, happy Christmas
y moments, you know, and they would play these on
TV and then they would release them on video, but
they would be different cuts, and I'd be like, this
is not what I saw on TV. What's going on here?

Speaker 4 (25:37):
It's so weird.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
I wonder if it was like a licensing thing or permissions,
but like, you own all this stuff, just like give me,
you know, like keep it contestant, right, weird unless unless
also it was kind of greedy where maybe they purposely,
like you know, made two versions so that you got
to find both and buy both or something.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
I feel like that's very Disney, right, But.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
You did mention fun and fancy free. And I remember
that's where Mickey and the Beanstalk came from, right, And
I never knew that was part of something else. And
because it's right, because they would just release Mickey and
the Beanstalk by itself as a tape and I'd be like, oh,
this is so so cool, yea. And it was years
later later when I realized, oh, this is part of

(26:22):
something else that was much longer.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I always enjoyed all Disney stuff. I mean, you're talking
to someone who this is so nerdy, but my good
friends who some have been on the podcast, we would
do a Disney movie marathon every summer and we would
we would like I'd print out the sheet of all
the movies at the time and we'd vote, and the
most popular ones we'd try to cram in like four,
I mean, like we're like sixteen, like kind of not

(26:45):
the coolest thing to do, but like order a ton
of Domino's pizza and just as to cram into the
living room or on like a guest bed and just
like all right, a Ladden's next, and like you know,
so you know, I've always loved that Disney and like
Disney through the years, but like even how again it
probably was in that special like the Old Mill and

(27:06):
like yes, what is it lonesome ghosts like some of
those old like thirties animated creepy shorts that definitely are
kind of part of the same DNA, you know, like
loved all them.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
So as I as I was watching Tim Burton's film
Last Night Years, there's there's a whole that whole scene
at the mill, and I thought, yes, this kind of
reminds me of the Old Mill short.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
I thought, I am right there with you.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Mother's stuff there, I am so right there.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
With you because I I love Tim Burton's movie. We'll
talk in depth about that soon, but like I hadn't
rewatched it in years, completely forgot. Yeah, the mill, the
the even the frogs saying that. I'm like, wait, did
Disney make this? And I'm like, no, it's just paramount.
But this is so weird, how like we are straight

(27:51):
up borrowing visual There was even a moment when Johnny
Depp falls onto the horse backwards, just like animated Icaba does,
where he's like, you know, I'm like, wait, Tim Burton,
you're like bringing the Disney version to life, but this
isn't Disney. Maybe it was Tim's nod to Disney because
he had worked with them on and off and has
has said I guess he absolutely will never work with

(28:13):
them again. And I'm sure you saw Beetlejuice too write
the new one. Yes, he There's even a line in
that one which I thought was pretty funny how someone
said definitely not Disney, like something like that with folloween costumes,
So you know, maybe that was him. I don't know,
but I'm so glad you brought that up because I
had never really I had never really watched these two

(28:33):
kind of back to back, So picking up on yeah,
some some major similarities was pretty.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Cool and very interesting.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Love love the Mill stuff for sure. I mean that
that old. It's not even like a scary short. It's
just it's just kind of creepy and thrilling and simple,
you know, of just a storm.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Like even when I was a kid, and I think
I think it was in the longer Disney Halloween compilation,
and when I was I always thought, why is this
in here? Because it's just it's you know, it's just
nay nature basically just a storm, So it always kind
of stuck out. Yeah, not in like a sore thumb way,
but just kind of like a what an odd little

(29:13):
little vignette?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, yeah, I guess this was like the natural horror
section of the right, you know, natural disaster horror.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
But yeah, I'm so glad you're a fan of that too.
And that's why I was like, oh my gosh, I've
been wanting to have Chris on the show. I feel
like you posted about that and I was like, oh
my god, Okay, this is meant to be. You want
to come on. So here you are, thank you for
saying yes right, yeah here.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
I rollicking ride through sleepy hollow Walden being bring the
laughable colorful light, Washington Irving's like hiking Legend with that
awkward school master Ichabod Crane.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
And we have Bing Crosby, you know, famous voice, what
a voice for this one. This was the same year
he was in a Connecticut Yankee and King Arthur's Court
the film, so he of course was a big star.
This was before he did White Christmas, that was a
few years later. But I mean again, like I've always
kind of been a kid where I'm okay watching old
stuff because it feels so different. And his voice and

(30:16):
it's so silky, and it just feels so old. Although
the animation looks incredible on Disney plus, I mean it
looks brand new. It's amazing what they've been able to do,
you know. So we have Bing. It's directed by two guys,
Clyde Geronomy and Jack Kinney, written by a few people,
Erdmund Penner, Joe Rinaldi, Winston Hibbler. I mean, you don't

(30:37):
get names like this anymore people. And I feel like,
like Chris was saying, with fun and fancy free. Disney
was definitely doing some of these anthology films. I guess
budget wise, maybe it just made sense. I don't know,
I don't know why, but they were doing a good
amount of these in the forties, and this actually, I
guess was the last one of their package films that

(30:58):
they had done, because then they returned to focusing on
full length stories with Cinderella the year later. You know,
So this is kind of very much of that time,
I guess with with production delays with like World War Two,
I guess they had to make shorter stories.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
I assume maybe they just thought, oh, this story is
not really feature material or something. You thought, well, let's
combine it. Let's do a little and and tholthology thing.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Absolutely, and it makes sense with the mister Toad stuff,
you know, very Americana, you know, kind of the same era.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Join in the merry mad Adventures and escapade to that rich,
reckless up Rris Ray a magnificent mister Toad and his
crazy cronies mister Rat and mister Mole.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Why do you love this, this sleepy hollow short? Are
there any specific you know, moments, lines, any visuals.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Well, I always forget. It's kind of a musical. I mean,
it's Disney pretty much everything that they do is but
you just thing that always sticks with me is probably
the last act of this one, where it's full on horror. Yes,
but I always forget, like, oh, it opens with the
musical number about like, who's this guy coming in the town?

(32:12):
Right right? Yeah? He was delightful and it kind of
reminds me a bit of like the opening of Beauty
and the Beast. You know, we're, oh my gosh, just
getting through the town and everyone's like, who is this weirdo?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
You know, and people like opening windows and you know,
which is funny because in Tim Burton's version people are
closing windows.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Again.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
I'm like, are you saying something right? But no, I'm
so glad you bring up the Beauty and the Beast connection.
It feels the same way. Also, maybe because Ikabad is
a nerd and like I feel like he's reading and
you know, he's very bookish and people are like, you know,
so yeah, it's a great intro. I forgot how how
goofy it is, you know, and like you said, we

(32:53):
switch into really creepy, great tense animation for the accounted
for I saw on the on the like screen. The
last nine minutes are like kind of a different genre,
you know. I love that they are like, all right, now,
we're giving you what you really want, you know.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
The tone switch is just and I love that it's
you know, it's a creepy sort of camp fire kind
of story. I love movies that tap into that and
do it well, you know, like I mean, you see
it in a lot of horror films, like you know,
The Friday, the thirteen Third, the Burning or things like that.

(33:30):
But this has such a great feel. Oh, it just
sort of reminds you of all those stories you were
told as a kid, you know, by candlelight or by
the fire that just gave you that little chill. And
I love that when once he's been told the story
and he's riding home at night and it's every every sound,

(33:54):
every shadow just makes him really on edge. And that's
the way I remember being when I was a kid
and I would hear a story light light like that.
I think it captures that sort of paranoid feeling so perfectly,
where after you hear some something really scary, you're just
you're always kind of checking behind you, like, oh is

(34:14):
the headless horseman gonna come get me with that noise?
What's that over there? It's kind of blurry? Could that
be the headless horseman? It's like it really captures that
so beautifully.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Absolutely, I completely agree. And I feel like I'm experiencing
it right now because we have some big trees on
our lawn and it's acorn time and all the acorns
are falling, and like when I was outside last night
for a minute, and again because the sun sets so
early now it's like six something and I'm like, eh,
so like by seven, it's like it's blackout. Like right
now it is dark and just hearing things falling through

(34:49):
the remaining leaves. Ooh, it's spooky. Like it makes sense that,
like this is spooky season and has been for since
the beginning of time because as things are naturally changing
and it's darker, your mind plays tricks on you.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, it feels very classic that way, like we've all
been there.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
This just captures that feeling, like because I remember my
sister would tell me stories that were completely untrue. She
loved to scare scare me to death, and I just remember,
you know, like going to get a glass of water
at night in the house when it was dark and
after I'd been told a story like like like that

(35:27):
and just sort of tiptoeing and trying to make sure
that if anything was in there, it wasn't going to
get me. And it captures that feeling really really well.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Honestly, that was me after watching Long Legs this summer,
Like there were a few nights where I'm like, when
I had to like go pee, i was like quick
like looking over my because I just kept thinking, like,
Nicholas Cage is in the house standing right there. Oh
my god, that would be freaked me out, but exactly the.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Most terrifying feeling, but also like one of the greatest feelings. Yeah,
where a piece of art is able to do that
because it's so rare it's are nowadays, and one that
really did kind of get under my skin. And oh yeah,
it's that great use of the human imagination. You know,
our imaginations are so strong and capable of really phenomenal

(36:15):
things and really scary things if we're left alone too long,
and this just taps into that.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
So absolutely, I'm yeah, completely agree, and I love how
they take their time with it, like we don't really
I didn't count when but we don't really see the
actual headless horseman until just the last few minutes. For
much of that last act, we'll call it, it's really
just Ichabod and his horse, and he keeps, you know,
getting scared and then getting relieved. It's just the frogs.

(36:43):
It's just the reeds, you know.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
And then yeah, that tree with the glow glowing eyes,
it's very snow white.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yes, oh yeah, I put that in my notes exactly, Chris.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
I love a scary forest better than anyone else.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I mean, I am right there with you. And I
hope that this new live action snow white. I hope
they give us a little bit of horror in those woods.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
I really hope so, because that's such a that that
film was probably the first film I remember seeing in
a theater that just rocked me to my core, Like
it was that movie just did it because it was
it was a little bit of everything. It was horror, suspense, romance, comedy, musical,
like all these things. And that scene I just remember

(37:30):
her running through the woods and all those creepy trees
grabbing her and.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
With like the branches are like yeah, fingers like you
then think of like Poltergeist with the scary tree. Like
I'm sure they were inspired by these old you know,
it's so amazing.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, sort of childhood fears that they're bringing in, you know,
because when when we're kids, that's when our imaginations are
so fertile. I mean, we we can we imagine all
kinds of crazy things, especially when it's dark, especially when
we're alone. And I think Disney was very smart to
sort of tap into that in these movies and show

(38:10):
and show something like, you know, a tree which is
completely you know, it's beautiful, it's a piece of navy nature.
It's not scary to an adult, but to a kid,
if it's lit in the right way, if the shadow
is cast in a right way, it's it's it's a monster.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Right yeah. What what's totally normal in the daytime is
something else at night?

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Right Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:32):
And also that snow White ride in Disney World. I mean,
I don't think it's anymore, but are you kidding? That
was one of my top that was one of my
let's spin around. I just love that For years they
leaned into the scary part of snow you know, like, oh,
I love that's right.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I will never forget when I first got on that ride.
It was terrifying, and then I couldn't wait to go
back on again. I'm so excited. And now it's I
think it's like a seven Dwarves mind.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yes, you're right, I did. I did go on that,
I think once. Yeah, a couple of years ago.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah, Disneyland still has it.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I think, oh, okay, well that's good. All right, that's
good to know someone's got to have it somewhere in
the world, at one of the many Disney places, right,
because it's.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Just too good. Mister Toad had a wild ride at
disney World. But where's the Sleepy Hollow attraction? Because that
would be a great attraction, that would be one with
the woods.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
And you are so absolutely, you're so correct. And also
the title of the anthology film they put together is
Adventures of Ichabat of Mister Toad, so like they're leading
with that in the marketing. You know, the headless horseman's
on that old poster. So yeah, it's I completely agree.
Why did we never get at least like a little
like sleepy hollow like neighborhood in like Frontierland or something,

(39:46):
you know.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
That would be perfect for it? Absolutely, like right next
to the Haunted mansion or something, you know, just some
little thing. And even the Tim Burton film, I kept thinking, like,
could we have like a Halloween horror Nights and universal, Oh.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
My god, I would love that.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Oh yeah, all the fog and all that.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, walking through the woods seeing the witch in her cave,
Oh my god, sign in law right?

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Oh why have they never done this? It is weird.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
It's so funny. I don't understand. Yeah, decisions with like
attractions and parks like that. Like you know, sometimes I
feel like things take so long to finally get to
the parks that it's like, Ohio.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
Crave heiring, reckless, losing his heart to Katrina the cutie,
and his head when pursued by the hair raising headless horseman.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Speaking of the ending of this short, I love some
of this amazing animation so much that do you know, Chris,
they show it kind of. I think they show it twice.
I love the shot of the clouds looking like a
hand kind of on the moon that I got attatoo
of it.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
The last tattoo I got.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
It didn't turn out like amazing, but you can so
cut like you know, it's it's kind of like that
if you're watching on if you're watching on YouTube, you
can sort of I'll post a picture, but yeah, like plastic,
you know, because I'm sure people are like, oh my god,
I want to get like Ariel and I want to
get like frozen tattoo. I'm like, I want the moon

(41:15):
and the clouds, sleepy hollow. I just I've always loved
that was an image that was like, even as a kid,
I thought, whoa, that's so clever and so ominous, like hands.
It's kind of like Fantasia in a way, like like
the powers above or whatever are now like making it
so dark, they're closing the moon off, and now it's

(41:36):
just flat, like I don't know, always always got me,
you know, so.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
So atmospheric and eerie and and just really makes you
so uncomfortable. I was surprised that I was last night.
I was feeling uneasy watching a children's animated film. I mean,
that's quite the feet, you know, and the way it
ends to I think has always the way that they

(42:02):
never hear from him again. He just disappears. His hat
is there, the smashed pumpkin is there, and no one
knows where he went all off to. People have their theories. Yeah,
but and like they try to sort of soften it
at the end by saying like, oh, he's we heard
that he was off with his own little family and stuff.
But as a kid, I remember thinking, but they don't

(42:23):
know that for sure, like he's probably died, yes, oh yeah,
And so it just ends on this ominous note of like,
Ichabod's probably dead and if you go in the woods
you will be dead too, yes. And so that was
like maybe one of the first kind of downer endings
I remember encountering as a kid where it was like

(42:44):
you're just you're gonna die.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
And it's also as an adult, I was thinking, whoa
darkly funny, like, you know, they never found his body,
just his hat and the smash pumpkin, but the rumor
is he moved and then he lives with a widow
and and then he's like eating because he's obsessed with eating,
which is also just funny. He's a stick but it's like, oh, okay,
a little jarring. But then we go back to the

(43:10):
moon and we end with the headless horseman laughing. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
he disappeared, right.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
So creepy, Like yeah, it's creepy. It took to end
a Disney film. Yeah, with this really creepy note.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
They would not do that, now, no way, Akabod would
have like figured out how to you know, do something
I don't know, and then he and Katrina would have
gotten married. So you know, oh, that's that's what I
laughed at. He disappears and Katrina did get married to Brom,
like she's like, okay Ayakabad, like, no time has passed,
nothing to worry about.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Let me just get married to this guy, right.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
And it's funny because then in the Tim Burton version, Brom,
oh my god, his death Casper van Dean, Oh what
a thing at that time. But when he's like totally killed,
then Christina reached just like I've shed my tears for Brom.
I'm good now, like like kind of like the same,
but like with the different guys like Disney, Katrina is like,

(44:08):
by Akabad, I'm getting married to Brom. And then Tim Burton,
Katrina is like, oh yeah, bro, I'm over it. Let's
let's hook up, let's let's share a kiss.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
You know, I think you can definitely tell that it's
These are stories with two very different perspectives on love
and mating and everything it's just you know, of course, Tim,
in Tim Burton's world, she would get with Akabod. Of course,
in the sort of traditional nineteen fifties Disney world, she's

(44:38):
gonna stay with the Honky you know, right, Dumbo, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, Gaston basically right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Pretty much, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Absolutely, And I do I do love their love triangle.
I mean in both versions and any version. I mean
it's always such a fun love triangle. But in the
Disney short, their fun competition the guys, the fun animation
of them hurting each other and oh yeah, it's great.
It's so fun, so.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Goofy and fun and uh and it just yeah, it
doesn't prepare you for those last what is it nine minutes.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Right to the jambody.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
We start to kind of shift at at the von
Tassel Halloween party, which I'm like, please invite me some
of your please, I want to go right and like
they're dancing. There's a lot of good comedy there. But then,
and I even wrote this down, I'm like, oh my god,
I want to do this, The narrator says, Now, then
was the time for the annual like Von Tassel like

(45:45):
scary story portion of the party where he invited all
guests to tell him tales of Halloween. I'm like, I
want to do that. I want to have a party.
And then it's like okay, now everyone sit and you
each have to tell a story.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Like how fun.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
I've always loved scary stories. You know me too, So
like I was that kid like bringing remember like the
scary stories books, like with the creepy cover tell I
would bring them to tell the dark exactly. I would
bring them to like you know, weekend getaways and like
anyone and I'd be the only one that's like, no
one wants to like read a story out loud now, okay,
but like.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Terrifying, Like I was always so scared just to turn
page because you never knew what was going to pop up.
Absolutely that lady with no eyes with the wispy hair,
you know.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Oh yeah, Like here I am like watching the Skin
as an adult, Like I'm like, oh my god, I
want to go to this party and I want to
tell scary stories. So I do love Brahm's song as
like everyone's getting really kind of into the spookiness, you know,
it's still very fun, not as scary as the end.
And then like that's that's when I learned that people
put like salt or pepper or paprika on eggs. Was

(46:49):
from this short because if the bod's getting so scared,
he's just overdoing it, you know. With this egg it's
just a funny thing where I'm like, that's where I
kind of learned, like, what are you putting on an egg?
I thought, you just it's like you just eat an
egg on its own, you know. So just the things
we learned.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
And that song is great too, oh yeah, the hip
hip and the hip that's.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
The big one. Oh yeah. And there were some lines
as two gay men queer people. I want to just say,
there were some lines in that song that I just
want to shout out that are kind of funny nowadays.
Those lines are they say he's tired of his flaming
top and he's out looking for a top to chop.
I just thought, you know, you know, kind of fun

(47:30):
if you want to read into it that way.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Some people are updating their grinder profiles right now right.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
That are like I'll put that in my bio or
whatever exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
It'll make you smile, and it's actually freaking out a
bit too.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Oh yeah, it definitely will right, it definitely will. I
used to live near Sleepy Hollow, the real town the
last few years living in New York. I was in
the city for a long time, and then the last
few years we were in Westchester, and so a good
friends lived in Sleepy Hollow and we did this amazing
kind of like walking. I mean they there Haunted Hay
Ride in Sleepy Hollow is like some of the best

(48:14):
everwhere you're going through that real cemetery you see Katrina
von Tassel's old gravestone. I mean, it's all there. It's amazing.
You gotta go. If you haven't, have you.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Ever been so cool? I've never been.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh, you gotta go, Chris, make a trip. It's a
really cool I mean west it's beautiful up there, or
I should say down there from where I am now,
but up there from the city. It's not really upstate
like some and like the Tim Burton version, Oh a
town up state. Oh, you're a long way from New York.
I'm like, you're like forty five minutes. You're not. This
is like another borough of the city.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
You're fine.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
But I remember one year going to this really cool
kind of like like the historical society. There does so
many cool things. He kind of walked through, like the
story of Sleepy Hollow with actors. They had a headless
hoortseman and the actor playing Brahm just oh perfectly cast
shirtless Choppin' choppin Wood. I remember walking by him and

(49:06):
he's just like, you know, it was like sort of
a transitional moment, and I'm just like, wow, thanks brom
So now everybody, we're gonna now move over to fifty
years after the Disney version, we have the Tim Burton
version Sleepy Hollow. What a massive movie this was. I
was giddy with excitement when this came out in November

(49:30):
nineteen ninety nine. It was November nineteenth, right before Thanksgiving.
They kind of missed the Halloween mark.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Why do you know why they chose November?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
That weird? I mean, yeah, if you notice a lot
of the Halloween franchise is usually not released in October,
I'm like, that's so weird.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
I'm like, why are we doing July and August?

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Like no, I found that really weird, and like, so
I will give the last three credit for actually being
released in October. It just makes sense.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
And like the first, I remember like the original Jimmie
Lee ones, and it's so funny they were not only
released in October, they were almost released a little too late.
I feel like I saw the release day for the
original was like October twenty fifth. It's like, oh wow,
you got to only have a few days to watch it,
you know.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
So and that was also I think they were like
slowly rolling that out, So there were probably some places
that got it in like you know February, you know,
so right, it's like back in the day low Bud.
But movies, you know, they they had like six trends
that they would just you know, circle around and right.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Yeah it wasn't right, yeah, yeah, but yeah, you know.
And I don't mind November horror to me. You know,
some people start the Christmas decorations, I'll start them Thanksgiving,
but most of November is just Halloween Part two for me. Like,
so I'm all about some creepy you know. And we
have like some movies that I'm planning on talking about

(50:58):
the fortieth anniversary of Netmar and Elmstree. That's a November movie.
We even have like we have Sleepy Hollow, We have
interview with the vampire we have lots of November horror.
It's just funny because sleepy hollow, with the pumpkins, and
especially the way Tim Burton made this movie look. I mean,
no wonder it was nominated for production design for the
for the Oscar. I know it won. Oh, I think
it won production design if I remember correctly. It was

(51:20):
nominated for cinematography and costumes. I mean, this movie is
be beautiful rights as are on screen. Most of all
of his movies are just beautiful to look at, but
this one, Wow, it is like everything almost it's like
so perfectly fake that it works, you know what I mean.
The blood so like painted red, and like the pumpkins

(51:42):
are so you can tell like that's like made out
of the hardest material, but it looks so shiny and cool,
you know.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I do remember the trailer for this movie was spectacular, Yes,
and I could not wait. I remember seeing that and
just being like, we have got to go see this.
And I remember seeing it like with somehow because this
was ninety nine, so I was a ten, yeah, and
I was getting I think I brought a few friends
with me from school and I don't know if their parents. Okay,

(52:20):
The R rated movie but my mom took us and
we had a great time. Everybody lost the love in it.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Now did your mom do you remember if your mom
like said, did she sit through it with you? Or
did she just drop you off?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Okay, she was there. She was there, because this was.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
A time when like you really did kind of have
to have like a parent at least like sort of
pretend to want Yeah, you know, like they were checking
back then, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
That was part of the fun, was to kind of
be like can we sneak in, like will our parent
have to buy the ticket and then just say it's
okay if we're in. That was like kind of part
of the anxiety. Especially going to see a horror film.
It was like that kind of added to it a bit,
like you were always kind of on the edge, not
really so much because of the movie, but because you

(53:03):
were like always kind of checking the door, like is
there going to be an usher that comes in and
like kicks us out? And yeah, I know me, but
but there was it came pretty close.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. There were times where you're like,
oh my god, okay, just you know, I think I've
mentioned it on the show. There were times where like
friends and I were like, just like, act like an adult, like.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, just be very you know, drain the life out
of your eyes.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah, because they're looking they're looking. Okay, right, I'm really
taking this all in.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Right, It's like a very like invasion of the Body
Snatcher's kind of thing, you know, just sort of bleeding
and don't oh yeah, just having no emotion just to.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Be right in one of them. But I agree that trailer.
It was like it looked like perfect blend of weird
Tim Burton that we all wanted, you know, because he
had just done I think his movie before this was
Mars Attacks if I.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Correct or something.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Yeah, because Mars Tex came out right around Scream and yeah,
I don't think he had one in between, so there,
so then this one came out because then after this
I'm pretty sure was Planet of the Apes, which you know, yeah,
I you know, I didn't hate whatever, Like it was fine.
It was you know, I went to it.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I had a good time. I mean at that age, ye'rs.
I haven't seen that one in.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Year, so I don't know how it held up, but
you know, for the time, I was into it. But yeah,
the trailer was like great mix of the Timberton. We
wanted horror and and some fantasy, supernatural spooky stuff and
then also just a thrill ride. Like I remember seeing
like the sword swinging and Johnny Depp.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Going like whoa, you know, like yeah, you know, it.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Was like it was sort of starting to pave the
way for you know, kind of like well, I guess
it came out. It came out the same year but
after The Mummy. But and the Mummies definitely a more
more action comedy than this, but it's kind of in
that same sort of family as like the Mummy Van
although that one really was not that good, but you know,
like the fun horror thrill ride where it's not really scary,

(55:06):
but you're gonna like, you know, kind of be taken
on a crazy creepy journey. Right, yeah, really you could.
You can just like watching it and I've seen this
a bunch of times, but why rewatching it earlier today?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Man?

Speaker 1 (55:18):
You can feel all the work and all the ideas
and like the care and you know, to me, like
looking at it, at least there is not one error
on screen, like everything is perfect story wise. I love it.
I love the twist how it's like whoa, it's your
step mom. It's the evil step mom. Like I did

(55:40):
not see that coming. I love the whole murder mystery aspect,
you know, I feel like it gets a little murky
with like some of the town elders, Like, you know,
it's tough because like Martin Landau is Van Garrett and
it's fun to see him in the opening death you know,
but like you know, they're kind of talking about some
people that we don't really know that well, so it's hot.
I were to like face to the name, I'm like, okay,

(56:02):
so who was cheating on who? And you know, so
it gets a little you know, as many times as
I've seen it, I'm still like, okay, I do feel
like I need to take notes at this one part
where like they're kind of piecing it all together.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I am close to blick about crane sent from New
York to investigate murder and sleepy Home. It probably cost
a pretty penny. Yes, this wasn't like a little like
fly by Night thing. This was definitely big studio backing right,
and you can tell every frames it looks expensive. This
was nineteen ninety nine, which was a banner year for

(56:36):
every genre, every type of movie that is one of
the greatest years of cinema history. I should have brought
my back. Now, I'm like, how did all these movies
come out in the same.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Right, There was something in the water in like ninety
seven ninety eight as these movies were being developed and shot,
right like.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Something was going on.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Also, I meant to grab I have the script, a
nice like coffee table look of the Sleepy Hollow, nice
hardcover with photos and drawings. Oh my god, I'll send
a pick and I'll show it to you.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
It's so cool.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
It was like one of my most prized possessions. Like
as a teen, I'm like, oh my god, my Sleepy
Hollow script, you know, and like behind the scenes photos,
you know, back when like Barnes and Noble. I guess
they still do it, maybe a little bit, but like
when they would release like really cool thick books about
the making of these movies, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
What was going on that I remember having like a
paperback script of of all things. I still know what
you did last summer, Oh my god, for the movie.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I think I had that too.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
In the middle of the Oh my.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
God, I think I had that too. It was either
that or it was like a novelization of the movie,
which remember how they would do those, I had one
for this movie. I feel like I just saw a
twenty fours releasing which could be really fun novelizations of
the ex trilogy. I think that could be really fun
to read those and see. All right, well, let me
set the scene real quick for you, Chris, and then

(57:55):
let's geek out more about this movie. So this is
what was going on everybody. In November nineteen ninety nine.
Sleepy Hollow came out the same day as the James
Bond movie The World Is Not Enough. Pierce Brosnan Didnise Richards.
A great song by Garbage. I love that theme song
from that one, if you remember, it was like a
big ballad, oh so fun. So that came out the

(58:15):
same day big November movies. On the music side, the
number one song was Smooth by Santana and Rob Thomas.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
That was a big one.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Remember God, ah, but wasn't that That's the one just
like the eoh shit, oh my god, so annoying. Yeah,
So that was everywhere on the radio for weeks and
weeks and weeks months, years, and then on the TV side,
I thought this was so funny, not only because we
love horror. We were just talking about Halloween. Also, your
movie has some Halloween visuals in it, some some homages there.

(58:46):
On this same day, November nineteenth, ninety nine, everybody a
guy named John Carpenter, not that John Carpenter. He became
the first player on the new show and had started
a couple months prior Who Wants to be a Millionaire?
He was the first player to win a million dollars
on this day, and he is also known as the
first contestant in the history of American game shows to

(59:07):
win a million dollars. So who knew that? As this
movie was coming out, we were giddy to go to
the theater. This guy's making TV history, you know, winning
all this money. So I thought that was just a
really crazy fun.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Fact, right Who Wants to be a Millionaire? I have
not thought of that show in so.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
With regious and your final answer, I mean that changed
pop culture. I mean right like that you.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Could phone a Oh yeah, let me can I phone
a friend?

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Oh yeah?

Speaker 1 (59:36):
It was huge and on the TV side. I wanted
to shout out again going back to I still know
our girl. Jennifer love Hewitt, her Party of Five spinoff
show Time of your Life. I think it only lasted
one or two seasons, but I watched that first episode
that had just started a couple weeks prior on Fox,
so that's what was the hot news show at the time.

Speaker 5 (01:00:01):
How much of your Superhero's explained to only that the
three were slain in open ground, their heads are.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Simped from their bodies, taken by the headless Horseman, taken.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Back to hell.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Chris, I'm gonna throw it over to you again. I
know you've already given us the log line for the
Disney version, but in your own words, do you want
to give us a little brief synopsis of this version
since it's a little different.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Sure. So there's a town called Sleepy Hollow where there
have been three murders already, and a constable from New York,
Akabod Crane, is called in to investigate these murders. He's
sort of a fish out of water, and he's got
all these new fangled scientific experimental gadgets to figure out

(01:00:48):
who did it. But all the people in the town
are pretty sure it's this headless horseman guy. And he's like, well,
that's impossible, because you know, science rules over superstition. As
the bodies keep turning up, he starts thinking maybe there
is some truth to this legend of the Headless Horseman,
and we get a lot more about who the Headless

(01:01:09):
Horseman was before he was headless.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yes, the Hessian nice, which is so it makes me laugh, Chris,
because so in high school after this movie came out,
as we were in high school, there was a mall
in my town. There still is, you know, at any mall,
you'd have your mall rats. There'd be like those guys
and girls. But those guys that were like, oh, and
my friend coined the nickname. They're the Hessians. And it's

(01:01:32):
because of this movie. I don't know why, it makes
no sense, but because the Headless Horseman was this creepy Hessian,
we were just like, ooh, Hessian alert. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I have like the weird like little like trip trilogy
of Charity with the you know, the little you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
I don't think so. I don't know why she called
them that, but it just always killed me and it
just became our thing. Any Hessians there, I don't I
don't want to deal with the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Hessians tonight, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
But Christopher Walking in this movie, Wow, me, his teeth,
his eyes. Wow, I mean, one of my favorite shots
of this movie. I mean, and there are many of them, right,
but one of the best that just sends a chill
down my spine is at the end. I know, we're
jumping around, but at the end where he has picked
up the Lady von Tassel, Miranda Richardson, and she's kind

(01:02:18):
of coming to and she's no longer in power, and
he's just looking at her and it's this very to me,
you know, scary, like I'm a man from hundreds of
years ago, Like I don't have any morals, I'm a crazy,
psychotic guy. And the way he looks at her and she,
you know, reacts and then he bites her.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Mouth, biting of the mouth and the blood and it's misted.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Oh, it's gnarly. I'm like, this is so but you
know what she Hey, she's crazy, so you want to
be crazy? All right, Well, here you go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
But they deserve each other, I guess, yes, in that way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Which I feel bad saying, because you know, her motive
is pretty interesting. You know that she she was kicked
out with her family by their landlord, the Van Garretts, right,
and incomes the Van Tassels in their house, you know,
because of their connection with the Van Garretts, and so
they're like stuck in the woods. Parents are dead, it's
just her and her twin sister. Like, you know, I

(01:03:16):
get it, Like that's an especially back then, that's a
very hard life. So as ever as all these movies,
you know, when when we hear the motive from the
killer or the person behind the scenes, right still, you
can't kill people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
So you got an idea.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
It's just not like I understand, you know, Billy, I
understand your dad, you know, was having a crazy affair
or you know, all these people, Like I get it,
but you can't be killing people. You can't be doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I kept thinking to a big kill count. I forgot,
like there's a lot of does, Like most of the
cast is dead by the end totally. And during Miranda
Richardson's monologue, all I could think was, she'd be such
a good ghost face at some point. That would be
so much fun. I don't know who she met.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
I like that idea. I love an older ghost face.
I know people have, you know, issues with Scream six.
I won't spoil in case anyone's listening. Who hasn't seen it,
I mean where you've been. But you know, I'm okay.
And like Laurie Metcalf scream too, I'm my fave, the
best scream of the crop. So I love that yeat.
She gives that great in control but not in control,

(01:04:22):
kind of like hib but she's explaining, you know, unhinged
but very stiff like. And the way she reveals, you know,
when we think she's dead, which I've always loved that
fun little twist when she comes out of the shadows
in the house coming up to Katrina. The way she moves,
it almost feels like they sped it up and post
or it's just so kind of weird, you know. It's

(01:04:44):
like it makes me think of when Edward Scissorhands comes
out of the shadows. It makes me think of the
alien walking in Mars attacks the woman played by Tim
Burton's girlfriend at the time. Why can't I think of
her name? She's Maria, you know, Like it's just got
this weird, you know essence, and it's it's chilling, it's spooky.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I love a bad lady. I love a female.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
I think it's so much more fun because you know,
they they have to as a society. We tell them to,
you know, act a certain way, and in a film
like this, they just get to go completely unhinge and
just let the anger out and and it's and you know,
it's so much more exciting to see that yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Yeah, literally letting her hair down, you know, like she's
like and and she's she's funny too, Like she say
when they all show up there, she's like, watch out,
watch out for your head. Right, It's great. She's got
these fun playful I'll always say, not always say, but
I'll always like think when I think of her in
this movie, I think of yes, go run and skip

(01:05:51):
and hop.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Or whatever she says.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
And she's like trying to shoot them, you know, like
she's just letting it all out, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
So her husband is like, okay, honey, let's go to
the church. As she's picking these flowers, the horseman comes
up behind her and he just is so stunned. That's
where we that's where we that's all we see. He says,
he got your mom. That's how we believe that. We're like, Okay,
this movie just has been showing lots of decapitations, which

(01:06:18):
Bravo I'm so happy they do not. They do not
really hold anything back because you know a movie of
this time, even thinking of to like Halloween, h two oh,
or you know different Slashers, they weren't always showing the
actual kills, not like your movie, right, but like this movie,
we are just seeing heads so clop right off and
roll on the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
So I'm like, why are we not seeing her die?
That's like kind of a big character and then lo
and behold, you know, but I just love how I'm like, okay,
so he just ran off. He's just like okay, bye, honey,
like nice knowing you see ya, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Just such an idiot, he just.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
And she sort of alludes to him being an idiot
how She's like, you know, I just had to like
infiltrate his home, be the nurse to his sick wife,
and like wasn't hard to get married to him. So yeah,
you know, I just yeah, I let you you hit
it on the head. I think I love like a
female killer or female mastermind because they're already got. They
have so much on their shoulders, and they have pressures

(01:07:15):
that from society, from men, from each other, you know,
from kids, from families that. Yeah, like let it all out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
You know, it's so exciting to see that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Yeah, I love that totally.

Speaker 5 (01:07:27):
He wrote a giant black Steve to look at him
major black Wine co.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Even today, the Western Woods is a home to place
a brave man will not fine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
This was written by Andrew Kevin Walker, who I believe
wrote the script for Seven. He he made that massive
movie so kind of a little different I mean, you know,
very dark material, but this one, much like the Disney version,
still has some fun, banter, some lightness. Johnny Depp gets
to have a little bit of fun here and there
with some jokes, you know, so a little bit of

(01:08:01):
a of a you know, a different lighter kind of
horror film for him. After seven, which is pretty dang dark.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
I mean that is I mean, it could probably be
a musical. I mean I think they could do it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
I would see it. Oh, I would badly see it. Okay,
you have at least seven.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Songs, right right? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
See, Oh my gosh, yes, look at that. Oh my god, Chris,
I think we just cracked something. You have the musical nine,
which I loved, but now seven and it's it's, oh
my god, it's a great parody. It could be a
great parody musical. Okay, copyright everybody, It's not for you
to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
It could be like what's in the box step to
do something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Yes, gen Yes, oh my god, number, Oh my god,
that's the Grand Finale. Yeah, absolutely, oh my god, brilliant.
So that's Andrew Kevin Walker. And then I'll just talk
about our two stars, of course, the iconic duo here,
Johnny Depp. I know, a little problematic these days. Back
then he was, you know, everyone's favorite guy, a very

(01:09:07):
different Ichabod than the Disney version and really any version,
you know, nerdy, quirky, but quite pretty to look at.
So you know, Tim Burton's like, this Ichabod's gonna really
really be a lady killer, like like they say in
the Disney version, he's such a ladies man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
And I'm like, I don't know how about.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Right, Yeah, but this one is so he had just
done Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and the Ninth Gate.
He did like a spooky yeah, I remember not loving it,
but you know, that was a little bit of a
thing earlier in ninety nine. And then Christina Ricci was
kind of in her edgy phase. She had just done
Buffalo sixty six and the Opposite of Sex, so she
was really and she was so young. The age gap

(01:09:44):
between these two, Chris, I looked it up today. Johnny
Depp was around thirty five and Christina was nineteen, and
that was when it came out, so maybe she was eighteen,
you know. So you know, it's like the Jurassic Park
age gap between Oh my god, Sam Neil and Laura
der And it's like whoa, Like they were decades apart.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
I never realized that she was so young. I always
thought she was like thirty five in that when.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
I know, isn't it wild? I think it was just
her hair and her vibe. I know, Christina, you can
tell she's young. You can just see like this is
a young girl, you know, and Johnny looks great. I mean,
they don't look weird together. It's just kind of like
it's got to be so weird, like touching your face
and kissing you and I just graduated high school, like
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Yeah, it's and I think because Christina Ritchie had been
doing so much when I was a kid, oh you know,
I mean from just like the Adams Family movies to
now and then to Casper. You know, oh my god,
you kind of just grew up with her, so you
just kind of I don't know, she always kind of
seemed like she was kind of like older something. Yeah, weird.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Yeah, she just sort of seemed like, oh well, yeah,
of course, like that makes sense. But as an adult,
I'm like, oh, you know, but it's funny. Christina Riccie
has not worked with Timberton as much as I thought
she did. I guess this was their first collab and
then she I know, she popped up in his Wednesday show,
so that's great and that makes up course perfect sense
for her. But yeah, I'm just surprised because she seems
so up his alley that I just am surprised they

(01:11:07):
didn't do more after this or before, you know, just interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
It's the petty witch, the pika too witch. Who's got
a kiss for that pikacho witch?

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Is it Theodore?

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Probably miss I'm Murray Stranger, then have a kiss on account.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
They are great together, and just her long blonde hair
and like some of these amazing, Like I just love
the reaction shots that a lot of them were in
the trailer. I remember like her kind of running and
like gasping, and then Johnny like like, oh just they
are photographed beautifully in this movie, you know, stunning.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
The assassin is a man of flesh and blood and eye.

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Will discover him.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Are you so certain of everything?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Hey, rewinders, Chris and I aren't the only ones who
love these Sleepy Hollow movies. No, No, here are my
other friends Katie Bruno and kit Chen who wanted to
join in on the fun.

Speaker 6 (01:12:03):
Hey everyone, So, I remember very well the first time
I saw Sleepy Hollow. We went to the theaters to
see it. I was with my very good friend, an
amazing host of this podcast, Mark, as well as a
couple of her other friends, and my parents actually had
to come with us because of rated R and we
were only twelve, so we needed adults with us, and

(01:12:25):
we all loved it. I was obsessed from that very
first viewing. I loved the set, the costumes, the cast
was amazing. Just the overall look of the film. It
is so beautiful and spooky. It actually kickstarted my absolute
huge obsession with Johnny Depp that went on for quite
a few years afterwards. I loved how the Horseman looked.

(01:12:50):
The special effects for him were great that terrifying tree
he would ride out of. That was just awesome. I
also loved the music. Of course, the inane, amy, talented
and fabulous Danny Affman did the music, and I love it.
It's just perfect for the movie. I actually still have
the soundtrack CD, so yeah, I absolutely love this movie

(01:13:11):
and I personally rank it as one of my top
Tim Burton films of all time ten out of ten stars.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
Hey Mark, it tis I Kit. I have absolutely been
in love with and obsessed with burl Ives's Sleepy Hollow
since I was like three. I always watched Disney's Halloween
Treat because we always had the Disney Channel because I
was an only child, which is really nice go Elburns,

(01:13:42):
but I loved Every Halloween. I would carve a pumpkin
with my mom and she would be roasting the pumpkin seeds.
I'm having this memory of the first time I was
doing this, and I was probably three or four. She
was roasting the pumpkin seeds and I was sitting cross
legged in the dark and watching the TV. And it
was Disney's Halloween Treat with all of the old cartoons,

(01:14:06):
especially highlighting and including the burl Ives Legend of Sleepy Hollow,
which I have had those songs in my head since
I was three years old.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
I'm like with.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
Hip Pip and Clippery Clop. He goes looking for I
just swap and I'm just all the time throughout Halloween
and throughout all days. Mark and I went to Sleepy
Hollow the day before my twentieth birthday and we just
like literally took and that's in you know, late May.
So we took the train up just in the evening,

(01:14:38):
just to wander around the spooky cemetery and the tree
where General Andre was hanged and all of this stuff.
I absolutely love all of the images in the Disney
original Sleepy Hollow.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
And I know you have that tattoo of the moon.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
It's one of the most magical images of Halloween, the
moon just gently being closed in upon by the hands
of the clouds. And I am obsessed with Tim Burton's
Sleepy Hollow when it came out years later. Mark, this
is the year before we met each other, when I
was still living farther South Jersey. I saw this movie

(01:15:16):
four times in theaters. I hadn't memorized. I had the
trailer memorized. We are dealing with a Madman, the widow
winship was with child, and I'll just go on and on.
Villainy wears many masks, none so dangerous is the one
of virtue.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
That's enough.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
That's enough of me. I love how many nods to
the burl Ives version there are in the Tim Burton version.
I love the frogs calling Kabad's name. Just the entire
bridge sequence is so similar, and that incredible you know
it was a set, you know it was a sound stage,

(01:15:50):
but just that incredible sense of space and you're in
this time, You're instantly transported to this magical world. I've
come up with a drinking game for Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow,
And anytime someone says part of my intrusion, you take
a drink, and I swear to God, before the owner

(01:16:12):
of the head of the Headless Horseman is revealed, you'll
be dead. So maybe don't play that drinking game. I
love it so much. Mark, we have murders in New
York without benefit of ghouls and goblins.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
You're a long way from New York constantly.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
I love the tree that's old Blood. I love that
because it reminds me of the William Freakin film The Guardian.
If you've ever seen that, I don't think I've ever
seen it. No, Oh it is a wild ride.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
It's also about a tree that for some reason they
sacrifice babies too, and then at some point there is
a character who starts to hack in to it and
blood is just like spewing everywhere. Oh wow, okay, so
reminds me of Yeah, there was like ninety I think.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Wow, okay, so they art a little bit from that.
Then Wow, I got to check it out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
I love how they they you know, they heat chops
up the tree and then he just is picking up
all these parts and then all of a sudden, the
heads just come flopping out. It's just it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
The heads are so weird in the best way, Like
they're kind of all glued together, and then they start
like trembling and moving to open up this like vortex.
I mean, it's brilliant. I'm like, again, Animal Kingdom has
the Tree of Life. I need a part of the
Tree of Death.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Like I want to splash Zone with all the blood.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
And absolutely, and I do appreciate how much blood Johnny
gets squirted in his face throughout the most.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
It's so fat. The effects in this are really spectacored
and they have held up very well. Agreed the way
that with pretty much all of the decapitations really a
lot of variety, I guess, but that's what you would
expect from a film about the headless horsemhen he chops off.
But it's interesting how you see the live actor as

(01:18:11):
their head is being sliced off. And so there must
have been some sort of composite, some sort of digital
thing where they were able to mix the the actor
with the severed head. Yeah, sort of combined them and
it's seamless.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
It's seamless. It looks so good. I think there was
only one There was only one moment I caught where
it's a little funky, and I feel like that is
when you know, it's when I guess we don't really
know her name, but lady von Tassel kills her sister
well and like a little only in that moment, I
almost feel like the blood kind of starts skewing a

(01:18:49):
little early or something. But I mean that's super nippicky
of me. No, I agree, It's like it's and again
like there's no cut for the camera, like we're just
on them, and yeah, they had, did you some amazing
effects to go from some computer graphics to then some
great physical heads and some great practical effects. I mean,
it's it's really remarkable for sure. Yeah. And like I said,

(01:19:13):
I just love I love the blood in this It
all is like what we The first thing we really
see is the red, bloody like stamp of the will right,
and that we did that. That is Tim saying this
is blood in this movie, Like we are going to
have this real thick paint like stuff just getting on everyone.
You know, it looks great.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
It's so perfect for the tone of the film, the
sort of you know, dark fairy tale tone. Fairy tale.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Yeah, I don't want to say campy because it's not
really campy, but really, but it's it's heightened. It's not
realistic at all. It's a fairy tale. It's a fantasy
horror in a way. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
I think he's tapping into that because I know he's
a big fan of Italian horror, and I think this
is sort of his most sort of Mario Bava esque film.
There's lots of you know, there's the the sort of
iron Maiden that Acabod's mom is kind of thrust into
in that one scene that's really dark, very black Sunday

(01:20:13):
and there's all the fog and there's like the sleepy,
small small town and the set beautiful scene and the costumes.
It feels like a like a bab A film.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
And oh yeah, that's a great point. Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (01:20:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
The location is amazing. It is so not the real
sleepy hollow in anyway. I'm pretty sure it's they shot
somewhere in like England, and then a lot of it's
in a studio because it's just oh yeah, it's just
so perfect looking, you know, but it works. It's all
part of that beautiful Tim Burton dreamlike atmosphere.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Also, it's just so funny. I mean, we know that
they were together at the time, Tim Burton and Lisa Marie,
but I mean her her boobs, her cleavage. Even as
a kid, I was like, okay, this is a little silly.
Maybe that part's a little campy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Yeah, I mean I love that when Tim Burton is
dating someone like you're they're gonna get some pretty good
stuff to do in his huh oh yeah movies. I
mean right now, people of course with beal Juice Beal
Juice are talking about Monica Blucci and how you know,
does she need to be in the film? Okay, can
you tell me?

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Because I didn't realize this, Chris, are they together?

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
I can realize that that's what I've heard.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Interesting, that would make sense because yeah, you know, spoiler
if you don't want to hear this fast forward thirty seconds.
But yeah, I mean she looks amazing. She's kind of
a version of Mortitia, which is fine, but it's like,
you know, now we're kind of just merging things. But like, yeah,
that movie had a lot going on, and she ultimately
didn't kind of do a whole lot of cool stuff.

(01:21:47):
So that makes sense then if they are together, because
it kind of feels like, yeah, I want you to,
you know, be in this movie, and I'm just gonna
kind of make a part for you that pretty much
ultimately isn't really all that vital.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
You know, that's money.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Yeah, yeah, but you're right. At least whoever he's with,
they they steal focus, you know, from Lisa Marie to
Helena like and I mean Helen Bottom Carter is just amazing,
So it makes perfect sense for to give her great
roles when they.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Were probably made out the best in terms of the
quality of the parts, I yes, I think I mean
the missus love it is a part that anyone for
so that's a pretty good part too.

Speaker 3 (01:22:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
But yeah, like all the dark stuff with with Ikabad's
very religious father killing his mother and having and so
that's one thing. He killed his mom, you know, and
is insane and hyper religious. But like, wait, I feel
like we need to talk more about like your dad
has like a torture chamber, Like there's all this crazy

(01:22:47):
like he hurts his hands on this spiky chair. Why
does your dad have a spikey chair?

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
Why is mom full of blood in this in this
tomb that you're you know, you mentioned like that's spooky,
Like that's a whole spin off movie, like a prequel.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
I'm like, oh, that's scary, you know, Like I don't know,
is he borrowing these things from the church elders or something.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
It's very Yeah, that's some we're getting into, like the
darker Andrew Kevin Walker ideas. I feel like with that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
You know, yeah, yeah, that's wayful and more just sinister
and right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
Yeah, yeah, some really dark stuff. But I love, you know,
especially whenever it's flashbacks or or memories of his like
the music, I mean, the Danny Elfman score.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
All of it. Yeah, the minute it starts with the
paramount low like we're in for it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Oh yeah, I put I wrote the same thing in
my notes, right, I said, it starts the second we
see a logo.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
It's like unsettling and you know it's Danny Elfman, we
know it. But it's a different Danny Elfman than the
other Tim Burton sounds. It's a little less playful and
more of that old gothic kind of sound.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
It's it's for both. In fact, it sort of reminded
me a little bit of when he did Sweeney Todd
and the opening, which is the Ballad of Sweeny Todd
but sort of instrumental, but that sort of sound. It
is kind of like a more Bernard Herman as kind
of dread filled sort of sound. I really really love.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Oh yeah, absolutely, Oh it's so good from start to finish.
Any other you know, favorite moments? How about this? I
have to ask you since we were talking about the
the kill count, we got some good deaths, is there? Like,
what's what would you say out of all of them
that you can remember, now, what's your favorite death because
I have a few.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Well, my favorite, I think, because it's just so out
of the blue, is when they're in the church. Yes,
he throws the thing from the fence and it just
it just goes. God, just it's so weird. And then
he rips him through the window.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
Oh my god, it's brutal.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
It's crazy, and there's blood splattering everywhere. Christina's screaming, the
music is swelling. It's just a great moment.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
And I just love that the great actor Michael Gambon
is is now being dragged and he's still I mean,
it's not a dummy like, it's him there on him
and he's like, like, I love it. That's a that
is a brutal, great shock. The whole scene of this church,
I mean, and there really is a church that looks
just like that in Sleepy Hollow, which is a most

(01:25:33):
really part of the cemetery. Yeah, they really did a
good job making it feel very similar and you know,
one of those old, very kind of small close quarters
kind of church. But yeah, so I love that death too.
I'm so glad you brought it up because he's like
it's almost like the like a Samuel L. Jackson moment
when the shark in Deep Blue Seat, like he's like

(01:25:54):
about to speak, he's like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Yeah, oh it's good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
And then he still gets his head cut off. Yeah,
like in the fence where the one of the fence
spears was taken. I mean some of the stuff I
just love when it all comes together, you know, like
little details, and like that was just a great sequence
where it's like the thing that kills you, you get
stuck in the pull from it, and now you get

(01:26:20):
your head cut off.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
It's just it's really clever. Although I do have to
say Christina Ricci love her, always will, but like, yeah,
she screams, but then when she's there seeing her dad,
like in the window with Johnny with Ichabod, they're just
kind of stunned seeing her dad's head get cut off.
I'm like, oh, this is the moment where like you
should really do a big scream, but instead she just
kind of faints. I'm like, all right, Jim Burton's maybe
not a horror director, but I'm like, I just want

(01:26:42):
you to go, like I want you to do like
a big gale. Weather's like, oh, like that would be
so sick. You know, like, I know, Courtney, she's got
it right. We brought up the amazing Casper van Deen
bones liced in half. How brutal was that because.

Speaker 2 (01:27:03):
The way they shoot it too. I think it's because
it's it's sort of classy the way because it's all
kind of been silhouette. You know. Yeah, he's in the bridge. Yeah,
you know, he's just split in half and you can
see the blood squirting everywhere, but you don't really but
it's all backlit. And I thought, yes, classy, right, we're

(01:27:24):
from Acabad's on the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
We're kind of from his perspective. It's a wide shot
so we don't see the details, but you don't need
to because it's like just the yeah, just silhouettes. It's like, oh,
like I remember the crowd's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
Like, oh, it was just about to say that is one.
I seem to remember the crowd going wild for I
think everyone's like, oh, man, like that's that's that's tough,
you know. That's because also.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
What's so great with that is he's actually it's the
headless horseman isn't coming for him. It's just Brom starting
a fight, and now we see the retaliation of the
horseman like whoa dark you know? And how many does
Ichabod faint in this movie? It's pretty amazing. I kind
of forgot I lost count after like three times. It's

(01:28:06):
so fun, you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Know, you could you could sort of you know, like
the Christina Ritchy fainting. Oh, come on him that that
that's just so anti woman, don't do that. But then
he's making Johnny Tap do it so many times it's like, yeah,
I think there's a joke here. I don't think it's
really there's nothing there. It's just it's really really funny that, right, Yeah,

(01:28:29):
characters can do nothing but just faint.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Just fainting all over the place. I know, Yeah, it's great,
you know, But also I feel like people don't really
faint anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Do they.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
I mean maybe in the heat maybe where you are
in Mississippi. But I feel like back then, in these
period pieces, I just feel like everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Was like faint probably constantly. Fan It's the clothing, right,
think about it, the corsets, the there was no eight
A c O you know, I mean, you know that
people were stinky. I don't know a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
I'll shout out two more than I really love this
first one. I just love it. It's it's a little uh naughty,
you know, it's I remember again the crowd was like
laughing in a good way. But and so I'm like, oh, okay,
we're getting a little like freaky here. When one of
the town elders, I forget what his name is he is,
he's trying to flee and the horseman has been summoned

(01:29:21):
to kill him. Head cut off, rolls down the hill
and as Ichabod, you know, is trying to move, goes
right in between his legs, facing him, so it's not like,
you know, not facing outward. It's looking a little like
moral here, you know. And then how gnarly to not
only have that happened, but then as the horseman's coming
to Ichabod, like weel like he's shitting himself. He's like,

(01:29:44):
oh my god, but the horseman stabs the head with
the sword. Yeah, so I just want to shout that out.
And then I love the whole sequence with the cute
little boy and his parents and their cute little creepy
light which is very kind of Christmas, yeah, you know,

(01:30:05):
with that going, and and his mom is so beautiful
and he's so cute, and dad with the fire like
that whole sequence, and again how humorously sick for Mom's
had to be cut off and then her eyes lay
right on.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
The peaks through the crack of the where he's hiding.
And the fact that they have the guts to kill
a kid. I remember at the time thinking, oh wow,
like they're not screwing around here.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
This is but it is interesting. He's he's one of
the only ones that we don't see get killed, which
which it makes a lot of sense. That would yeah,
that would be pretty uh dark, like that wouldn't That's
not a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:41):
Little flood dark you know, Studio thanksgiving me release kind
of right, you know, yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's
I like the way they handle that. And I remember
that scene being featured pretty heavily in the trailers too, yes,
and the little zootrope and the you know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
And the doors swinging open, you know, with him coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
And great movie yeah that boy oh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Man, oh, like how the horseman is about to leave
and we know it's like any great slasher, like I'm
not done yet, and then through.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
The floor and just pulling them.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
Up like oh yeah, it's it's funny because like the movie,
like we're saying it's it's not scary. We were kids.
I mean, we were watching horror when we were kids, I'm sure,
but like, you know, like to us, it wasn't scary.
I think to most people it's not scary. It's for
sure creepy, it's unsettling, but you're not gonna really have nightmares.
It's not gonna it's not long legs creeping up behind
you when you're trying to get water or pee, right,

(01:31:38):
But they're not afraid to really push it and like
really add some steaks to this classic story that most
of most of America at least, you know, knows about
the headless Horseman. Like, we are really doing some murders.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
I think the main scene I can remember that made
people jump was the witch scene. Oh he does that,
that whole thing, and I do remember that and making
everyone scream.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Oh yeah, it's great. The graphics are great, you know,
and what a great actually yeah, what a great little
role too. She's barely in it. She just has that
one key scene and then really just comes up at
the end and like a flashback for us to see
you know that it's they're they're twins, of course, But
I love that whole scene. It's fun and funny, like

(01:32:24):
like POD's squirming, but yeah, just how she's saying, like, well,
first of all, she's she's putting herself in shackles.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
It's like, what's going on, right, And then how.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
She says something like when he comes, uh, you know something,
but I'm like he and I think it. Cobody even
says when who comes, like who is he?

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
Like that's so spooky, you know, good stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
Perhaps there's a bit of a witch in Yucatnam.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
Because you're a witch, and also just so smart to
add some some butery. You know, Katrina is kind of
a good witch. Ikabod's got a witch. She mom this witch.
I love the addition of, you know, stuff that would
totally be happening at that time. People really would be,
you know, doing this kind of stuff back then. It

(01:33:16):
adds a great kind of b story, you know all
the and also I had forgotten like this really is
Ichabod's journey from going to like devout like science based
to you know, believing in the supernatural. You know, that
kind of thing kind of went over my head when
I first saw it, you know, and and on repeated viewings,

(01:33:36):
I probably just kind of you know, but as an adult,
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's great, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
You know, there's just some stuff you can't explain away,
like some there's just some weird stuff out out there.
And I love how much they they constantly talk about
how like we're going to enter into a new millennium.
I was like, all right, I guess it was like
seventeen ninety nine when it was out. Yeah, it's just
it's so interesting. And then I started to think about

(01:34:03):
all the y two K panic was going, Oh my god, wow,
what a crazy year, right, what a crazy time.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Yeah, A lot was going on, like in pop culture
for sure. I know. It's amazing thinking back twenty five
years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:34:17):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
Yeah. And it is funny because because Ichabod mentions the
millennium a few times, a few times in the beginning
at the end, just in time for a new millennium,
like again going back, you know, things, all the circles
are closing, like it all works. It's just kind of funny.
It's showing some of that nerdiness because he is a
cop a constable. He's not nearly as nerdy as the
kind of odd school teacher, so they kind of needed

(01:34:40):
to still. And also Johnny Depp, it's not really we
just face it. He's not a nerd. He's the cool
edgy guy you know, back then, So so to give
him some of these great little lines. And I love
that he's afraid of the spider. I would be too, are.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
You kidding me?

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
Love that? Like love how he's kind of squeamish with
some things. I love. I never really thought about this
until this latest rewatch all of his amazing gadgets that
are so cool, and we're all over the trailers and
posters loved him. I kind of feel like, are you
know in another in like an alternate universe, is this
like the prequel to Edward Scissorhands, Like is he like

(01:35:18):
like a little man at home out of all of
his gadgets?

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Like that's so I love that kind of stuff. And
I love that he's basically like banished to Sleepy Hollow
to test his scientific gear and see if it actually works,
you know, for talking back to Judge Christopher Lee.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Chris Flee is literally in the movie for about a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
Yeah, that truly must have been definitely one day, maybe
even just half the day maybe just like sit right there,
you know, maybe two shots to close up a little
bit wider.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Thanks Chris, right, like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
Great, it's so nice seeing some horror icons like him,
and then a lot of Burton people, and then a
few newbies like like Christina and Miranda. I don't think
Miranda Richardson did another Tim Burton one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
But a lot of the guys, you know, Alfred from
Batman of course, Jeffrey Jones, who's you know, pretty problematical,
and another spoiler everyone so fast forward. Were you surprised
in Beetlejuice two how much of a character he was?
I mean, he's not in it sort of.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
I mean he's like this, I mean they talk about
him a lot. And there's that like or something, that
little airplane flashback.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
The shots of the elders, the men kind of all together.
There's there's at least two that really stand out to me.
When we first when Ichabod like opens the door at
the house the night he gets there and they're all
kind of in the study to talk about the murders.
It's it's chilling because, like you know, it's sort of subliminal,
but it's like, wait, they're all up to something, you know,

(01:36:54):
like he just can't really place it yet. But the
way Tim and his team placed them and lit them like,
and how they're all like perfectly time with the door opening,
It's like, ooh, there's a secret here, you know. And
then later on I think it's when the boy's father
is killed Masbeth and the body. I think it's him.
The body's in the woods, and again like they're all

(01:37:15):
kind of they're already looking at him. It's like, oh,
this is like a cult, Like yeah, it's like a
or something, right yeah, stuff that like you know, you
don't really think of right away with seepy hollow and
I kind of forgot it, but like, oh yeah, right away,
I'm like, oh that's creepy. Something's going on here, you know,
fish out of water and everyone's staring at me.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
You know. I love those little sort of small towns
with a secret kind of stories, like a Stepford Wives,
you know, yeah, I love that stuff. I just think
it's so with these these little small towns, you know,
they they seem so quaint and oh yeah to live in,
but underneath it all, you know, like I would love
to see like a a horror version of like Gilmore Girls,

(01:37:58):
you know, where it's like, oh this, this looks so cute,
you know, and then oh I love that, you know
that would.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Be I love that idea. Gilmore Girls Die.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's something more girls.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Oh there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
That's better. That's so much better.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
Well, I do like the flashbacks of you know, the
Headless Horsemen. All that's because it's not for some reason,
I remember it being longer than it was, but it's
literally like maybe three minutes at the most. It's it's
not a lot of oh yes, it's not a lot
of stuff, and they bring it in really quickly. It's
within the first fifteen minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
I was impressed by that too. I kind of forgot
that that. Yeah, it's it's in that room with them all,
you know, bringing Johnny in, bringing Acabad in, and yeah,
Baltis gets right into this history, you know. So that's
kind of cool to set that scene to start envisioning him,
and then we learn more about the lore and the

(01:38:54):
you know, what's actually going on with the skull and everything.
And also again going back to the awesome CG. I
got a shout out when he gets his skull back
at the.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
End it starts to grow like the like the it's
like roots or something all on his face and he
goes out of the frame and comes back in and
it's shange.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
And there's a little bit of like a fun kind
of beetlejuice moment with like you know, like a three.
That's great and it reminds me of something else, but
I can't put my finger on it where there's is it.
The mummy might be the mummy from earlier that year,
but it reminds me of something else of that time,
you know, uh, when these graphics were really getting good

(01:39:31):
and yeah, just like the rebuilding of all of his
you know all that love it so good.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
So well done. It's like there's whatever Siegi they used
in this, I think was very well executed.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's really well.

Speaker 2 (01:39:47):
Interesting to see computer effects, you know, twenty twenty five
years after the fact, Yeah, compared to how they are now,
and something like why do they look better back then
than the grading now? I didn't just plat toe at
some point and then go now, I'm like, are.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
We just lazy now? Like is there just one like
team doing all this? And they're like, oh, okay to
send it. We got to do that next, you know, Like, yeah,
I agree, a lot of movies from the nineties. The
nineties just were so special for technological advancement, you know,
and like true artists like you know, and we have
true artists of course today doing all this big stuff,
but like, you know, just a real respect for the

(01:40:25):
creativity and I feel like, you know, things were really
well made.

Speaker 2 (01:40:30):
Something about the nineties. They did it with such taste
and restraint and yes, probably having to scan it into
the computer and all that stuff, and then the film prints.
You know, there was a grit and a grain there
that kind of maybe masked some stuff that might not
have looked as good. Now so clean and so sharp
to the point where it just doesn't even look real.

(01:40:51):
It's just like hyper real. Yeah, it just kind of
hurts your eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
Well, thank you very much, Chris. This was amazing. So people,
you know, find Chris's films besides trash Man's On to
Be and you mentioned Roku. Are some of your other
films like Streaming on on those as well?

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
Okay, Children of Sin that is On to Be and
A Stranger among the Living is as well. Gat my
older films. I'm not quite sure, because that was They're
from a distributor that's not handled by me, so they
do their Okay, yeah sure where they are I know,
is not that funny how that works?

Speaker 5 (01:41:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
You have that listen to his pod. Hopefully some more
episodes of the of Homozone Haunted Hill in the future.
But uh, thank you, Chris, this was great. I can't
wait to talk to you again about another great movie.
We'll have to I'll look at my list for next year.
And okay too, wasn't that conversation a scary good time?

(01:41:54):
Thank you so much to my guest filmmaker and podcaster
Christopher Wesley Moore. Such a nice guy and such a
horror lover like me, like many of you out there,
so check out his work even long after Halloween is over,
horror is year round, right, And of course, the adaptations
of this classic folk tale don't stop there. There's the
recent Fox TV series, the twenty year old TV movie

(01:42:16):
starring Kaylee Quoco, Kevin Zegers and Nick Carter, and more
through the years if you want to keep the Sleepy
Hollow marathon going, but these two are the best. Thank
you Katie and Kit for your cameos as well, and
thank you all out there for listening to or watching
this episode. Follow me on Instagram at release date, rewind
to see clips of our conversation and clips from these

(01:42:37):
movies along with more trivia, and you'll find out there
what's coming up on the podcast in November. Leave a
rating or review for the podcast, a thumbs up on YouTube,
and tell your friends. Thanks straw Hat Media, Kyle Motsinger,
Greg Clemens, and Portland Media Center. Hang on to your heads, everybody,
and if you're in the US, go vote bus

Speaker 6 (01:43:02):
High st

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