December 18, 2025 • 61 mins
A love story can end on earth and still keep shaping lives. Michelle Bader Ebersole takes us from a whirlwind engagement to a rare cancer diagnosis, through amputation, parenthood, and the long quiet of hospice during lockdown.
When doctors say “terminal,” she and her three kids choose presence over perfect plans—Dream Foundation trips, nightly movies, popcorn, and a final, tender surprise.
The morning Luke dies, a worship song about heaven plays as the room fills with calm.
Later, at a grief retreat, Michelle receives a vivid vision of that moment from Luke’s perspective—no pain, total peace, and Jesus hovering in the corner.
That insight reframes fear and becomes a balm for others, asking what their loved one felt at the end.
Purpose grows from the rubble. Michelle co-launches Widowed 2 Soon Podcast, builds a nonprofit called Widow Goals, trains leaders to run local groups across the U.S. and Canada, and hosts retreats that gather dozens for worship, tools, and community.
If you’re navigating loss—or love someone who is—you’ll leave with grounded hope and concrete next steps.
Hear how pain becomes purpose, how faith and community make the load lighter, and how to show up for those carrying invisible weight.
If this conversation helped you, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review to support future episodes.
To connect with Michelle, click on her linkTree and connect to all her resources at linktr.ee/michellebader or on her website https://widowgoals.org/
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham's bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God's Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry, and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_03 (00:31):
Hey Library, it's Sylvia Warsham.
Welcome to Released Out RevealPurpose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
And today is Michelle Bader Ebersoll.
Grief.
This is gonna be the topic oftoday's podcast.
But it's not just about grief,it's about pain to purpose
because sometimes we're caughtin this first life, in this
first act, and we think this isit for us.
(00:58):
And then something happens thatjust wakes us up to the
possibility of rising from thatpain.
Michelle went through the mostunimaginable loss, losing her
spouse and raising threeteenagers.
(01:19):
I was telling Michelle, I waslike, I'm amazed, truly amazed,
how she managed to find thestrength and the courage.
SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
And they both share the same faith.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
But I'm sure in those dark days she questioned
whether God was with her,because we all do.
Sometimes it just the doubts canreally cloud and make it dark in
our hearts and souls, and thenthere's a glimmer of light, and
in that glimmer of light iswhere we start to take baby
(01:54):
steps out of that darkness.
I've been not where Michelle hasbeen, because I've never lost a
spouse, but I have lost in mylife, and loss and grief they go
truly hand in hand because loveit's an expression of the love
that we lost, and we gotta pickup the pieces, and we know that
(02:17):
God is going to pick up thosepieces and use it for his
purpose, and that's why Michelleis here today, because she wants
to share this amazing story oftransformation.
So, Michelle, thank you so muchfor joining us on release
outreal purpose.
Yes, thank you so much forhaving me.
SPEAKER_06 (02:34):
I'm excited to be here today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you, and as I spoke and
very heartfelt, I felt thepresence of the Holy Spirit
within my heart space and righthere in my face.
So I know he's here.
Yes.
And I know that you have an atruly remarkable journey that
(02:58):
you want to share with us.
So please dive in.
Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (03:03):
Yes, um, to understand my story, we kind of
have to go way back in time toget the full picture of all of
these things.
But, you know, my life is neverwhere I thought it would be.
You know, the older I get, themore that me and my friends were
like, yeah, this isn't where wethought we've all been through
stuff, like all of us now,right?
And to on your point aboutgrief, grief is the change of
(03:26):
any pattern or a loss in yourlife.
So we have all, every singleperson listening, you've
experienced grief.
So this, you know, all of thisstory, it applies to you because
we've all been there.
So I want to take it way back umto high school.
You have to to get the fullpicture where I met Luke, my
first husband.
Um, Luke and I were in highschool together.
(03:46):
We never dated, but we werefriends.
And then four years later, Icame, he was a year above me.
So I guess five years from whenhe graduated, I came uh back
from college, ran into himthrough mutual friends.
Um, three months later, we wereengaged.
Like it was just this likecrazy, like we knew right away
that we wanted to get married.
It's totally God's timing.
I can look back at that now andsee that.
(04:08):
And then we got married a yearfrom our first date.
And before we got married, hewas a mail carrier.
Um, so kind of give you he was25, I was 24, give you a little
frame of reference there.
And um, he had a walking routeand he noticed a lump in his
ankle, and he went to the doctorand they were like, You're
young, it's tendonitis, don'tworry about it.
(04:29):
Well, it kept getting bigger,and then finally, um we uh he
had it biopsied, and they saidit is mesin chymal
chondrosarcoma, a very rare bonecancer.
So we were completely shocked.
I mean, I never thought he wouldhave cancer.
He was 25, I was 24, we had justgotten married.
(04:50):
Oh, we'd also just gottenpregnant like two months after
we got married.
There was so much going on, andum, I was like, this isn't real,
you know.
I I went through some anger atthat point in my life because
all of my friends were justgetting married, having babies,
as was I, but their husbandswere healthy.
It was a really difficult timefor me.
So we dove into treatment.
(05:11):
Um, we didn't know anything, wejust did whatever the doctor
said because we were so young,and he started chemotherapy, and
it um it didn't work.
Like it just didn't shrink thetumor, it just made him sick and
affected the rest of his life.
Um, so then they said, okay, youhave a choice.
You can have a surgery where weremove the tumor, but you'll
(05:32):
wear a special boot and there'sa high chance it could come
back, or we can do abelow-the-knee amputation.
So a lot of prayer and seekingcounsel, we decided on the
below-the-knee amputationbecause he was like, you know,
we're having a baby and I wantto live as long as possible.
And I'm like, Yeah, me too.
I want you to live as long aspossible.
So um that was May 7th of 2004,when he had his leg amputated,
(05:54):
and we always considered thathis cancer-free day because
thankfully the cancer wasnowhere else in his body.
So he had his leg amputated,which completely changed him.
He was like all-star athlete,like really um athletic, and to
lose a leg was so hard on him,not only physically but
emotionally.
Um, he had to learn to walkagain.
(06:16):
There was a lot of painassociated with it.
Most people know about this.
It's called phantom pain.
You can feel like your leg is onfire or um it's being like cut.
It's like these nerves that arestill firing in your leg where
it's amputated.
It was a really, reallydifficult time.
Um, and he ended up, he wentback as a mail carrier, like
(06:36):
with a driving route, but it wasstill too much on him
physically.
And so I had to work full-time.
My dream was to be astay-at-home mom.
Um, my son was six weeks old,Hayden, when I had to go back to
work because Luke wasn'tworking.
And so that was another layer oflike, this isn't fair.
I want to be home with my baby.
I'd have to bring in the pumpsand pump at lunchtime.
And I was like, I just want tobe home with my baby.
(06:58):
You know, I had a lot of thisisn't fair when I was young.
Um, so then we went on um tohave two more kids.
So in three and a half years, wehad three kids because the
doctors also said we probablycouldn't have more kids, but we
could.
Um, so we had my oldest uh wasthree and a half, and then we
had an 18-month-old and anewborn, and that was a crazy
(07:20):
time.
Um, but it was very joyous.
There's a lot of great thingsabout that time period.
But Luke never fully recovered.
He was sick the rest of his lifewith all kinds of things.
So the chemo really hurt hisimmune system.
So he'd get every littlesickness, he developed diabetes,
cirrhosis, pancreatitis, and somuch more.
So he was sick on and off ourwhole marriage.
(07:42):
But the cancer wasn't there.
So we just lived life as best aswe could.
There was a lot of, it was ahard time in my life, a lot of
financial pressure, um, a lot ofpressure on me to do pretty much
everything.
He wasn't able to help a lotwith the kids.
I mean, he did at home, but likeas far as rides and this and
that, he was sick a lot.
Um, so fast forward 13 and ahalf years, and um, he notices
(08:06):
like he's having some pain inwhat he thought was his liver.
And since he had cirrhosisbefore, he went in to get a scan
and they scanned all of his um,like the front of him, and they
found some tumors in his chest,in his lungs.
And so we knew it was bad, andthey told us, you know, this is
terminal.
Like this is, you know, we'regonna do the best we can, but
(08:26):
this is terminal.
So we sat down with our kids.
That was such a hardconversation.
I believe they were 9, 11, and13 at the time, and they knew
about his cancer.
So I actually wrote a book umafter his first cancer
explaining the whole thing.
Like I wanted to write it downwhile I was fresh.
So they had read about his firstcancer journey, they knew all
about it.
And so sitting them down andtelling them like it's back,
(08:47):
that was such a hardconversation.
But telling them, like, we'regonna, you know, we're gonna
fight this.
He did not want to do chemo, butwe couldn't find anything else.
Like we looked for all kinds ofalternative therapies.
There really wasn't for his kindof cancer.
Um, so clinical trials, therewas nothing.
Um, so sitting them down andtelling them was really
heartbreaking, but we went inwith a good attitude, like,
(09:10):
we're gonna fight this, um,we're gonna pray for healing.
Um, and I did, you know, starttelling them as it progressed,
like healing may be in heaven.
Like we know he will be healed.
You know, I had people tell me,like, you should just tell them
he's gonna be healed no matterwhat.
You've got to have that strongfaith.
I'm like, I have faith, but I'mnot setting up to hate God.
(09:31):
I don't know God's plan.
I want him to be healed onearth, but I don't know.
So um we went down this path ofchemo, and you know, it was it
was way worse this time withhaving kids watch him throw up
and lose his hair and get weakand all of the things.
So this time, like, it's notjust me.
I've got three young kids, likeum two teenagers, one almost
(09:51):
teenager, like taking themthrough this.
And it was um, it was only gotstrength, really, that I was
able to do it.
I was still working, taking careof them, trying to help Luke
with all his stuff.
And eventually it got to a placewhere the doctor said there's
nothing else we can do.
Um, it's time to just havequality of life.
And we really worked on qualityof life.
(10:12):
We um found this place calledthe Dream Foundation.
They grant last wishes forterminal adults.
And up until that point, I'donly heard of that for kids, but
a friend found this for me.
And the five of us had neverbeen on a plane together.
We just couldn't afford it.
And we went to Disneyland andhad this beautiful time.
We have such beautiful picturesand memories from that time,
also some hard ones because hewas sick.
(10:33):
Um, but such a great memory.
And then he was a huge umUniversity of Oregon, like
Oregon Doc fan football.
So we got to go to their games,go down on the field, go to the
locker room.
Like, we just really lived lifethe best that we could.
And he was slowly getting worse.
Eventually went on hospice.
Um, and we were with hospice for11 months.
Like I saw it as something thatwas VIP care.
(10:56):
That's how I got Luke to do it.
I'm like, you no longer have togo to the doctor, they come to
us.
It doesn't mean you're dyingright now.
We can reevaluate in six months.
Like, it's not like you're dyingright now.
And so we did that, and we hadthis angel, she was an amazing
hospice nurse a Christian andjust even gave me her home phone
number.
I could call her anytime and wasjust amazing just to have that
help.
(11:16):
So he got gradually worse.
Um, and it was also 2020.
So the kids were home, um, youknow, starting in March of 2020,
and we can now see it as ablessing of time we got with
him.
And so we would spend every heslept most of the day, but in
the evenings we would watch afamily movie and have popcorn
like almost every night.
(11:37):
And that's you know, the kidslike very good memories, like
remembering that I actually havea list of every movie we watched
because I kept tracking them,and it was just this very sweet
time of family, and um just abeautiful, beautiful time, and
just to kind of give you aglimpse of just I don't know how
amazing he was.
Randomly, and um let's see, thatwas the beginning of May or the
(12:02):
end of April.
He was like, Let's go get yourwedding ring fixed.
And so I had my old weddingring, like the diamond had
fallen out, and we got a cheapreplacement, we couldn't afford
anything.
And I was like, Why do you wantto do that now?
And he's like, Well, we got thatstimulus check, you know.
Remember in COVID, there wasstimulus check.
So there was nothing open.
This was COVID, but someoneheard our story and opened up a
(12:24):
local jewelry store and let justme and him go in.
And it was just such a sweettime, like picking out this
diamond, like it was a it wasour last date, like just me and
him.
It was a beautiful time.
And um, you know, it was reallyhard for me to accept it because
I'm like, I don't know if I'llwear this forever.
And the hospice nurse was like,It's his last wish, just go with
(12:45):
it.
I'm like, okay.
And then what's even morebeautiful is on the day it was
ready, the kids wanted to gobecause they had nowhere to go.
They're like, we want to go,we're just stuck in the house.
And so we all went, and the umthe jeweler, she actually took a
video of me opening the ring,and she took our last family
picture, and that was um thatwas May 13th, it was 10 days
before he died.
(13:06):
We got a family picture, so it'sone of my most treasured
pictures, and I have thetreasured video of him giving me
the ring, and just such abeautiful time of like him
showing his love, even though Iremember he was like throwing up
and sick that day, like hereally just wanted to do this
for me.
And um, May 22nd, the hospicenurse came and told him, you
know, you're really starting todecline.
(13:27):
We're probably gonna have to geta hospital bed.
He was fully functional up untilthis point.
And she told me privately, maybefour to six weeks left.
And I was just updating thekids, like when I would pray
with them and I'd kind oftelling them where everything's
at, still praying for a miracleevery single day.
And um, May 22nd, we just hadthis beautiful family hug, even
with the dog.
(13:47):
I can look back and see allthese beautiful things, watched
a movie together, and um, himand I just stayed up and he
wanted me to make him a grilledcheese sandwich and just had
this wonderful time.
I go, This is our best date.
And he's like, Yeah, this isgreat.
And that was our last nighttogether.
And I woke up in the morning onMay 23rd and the lights were on,
and he was looking for somemedicine.
(14:08):
He's like, My calf really hurts.
Can you get me a heating pad?
I tried that, it didn't help.
Can you get me some ice?
Like, we were trying all thesedifferent things, and all of a
sudden he wasn't able tobreathe.
So I called um the hospice nurseand they said to put oxygen on
him, and like nothing washelping.
And then they told me, like,this is probably it, and I was
(14:28):
really confused and like youneed to go wake up your kids.
And it was like 4 a.m.
And I'll never forget the soundof telling my daughter Haley,
who was 14 at the time, likeit's time to say goodbye to
daddy, and she was like, No,it's not, because I just told
her we had more time.
I'm like, it is, and the onlyway I can describe those moments
(14:49):
that maybe hour we had with himwas God gave me a supernatural
peace to walk my kids through itbecause I was so scared of what
it would be like.
I mean, it was like my worstfear, and I knew it was coming.
But I was so calm, and I hadseen him suffer, him not be able
to breathe, his eyes roll in hishead, but the kids didn't.
By the time they got in there, Iknow God protected them.
He was just completely calm,looking up in the corner, just
(15:11):
eyes locked there, which isanother part of my story I'll
get to.
Um, and I was able to talk tohim.
I said, You are gonna hear, welldone, my good and faithful
servant, and you're gonna meetmy grandparents today.
And like he just God gave methis like strength, and I was
like telling my kids, your dadcan hear you, talk to him, and
just leading them through thistime.
I was able to call his mom andmy mom and get everybody there.
(15:34):
And we had about an hour when hewas still alive, just talking to
him and he was trying to speak,and it was like he was saying, I
I and it's like I'm like, it'sokay, we know you love us.
Like, I know that's what he wastrying to say.
Actually, my son had a dreamabout it later that that's what
he was trying to say.
And um we my daughter sang, Youare my sunshine, which was their
song, but it was beautiful, andthen for some reason I grabbed
(15:57):
my phone and played the song ICan Only Imagine, which is about
heaven.
And during that song is actuallywhen he took his last breath.
That's when the nurse came inand said he's no longer with us.
And that's when it got reallyhard.
Um, there's nothing to prepareyou for what it's like to watch
a soul leave a body, especiallyyour um your spouse, and to
(16:21):
watch your kids watch that.
And when it was time for my kidsto say goodbye.
Um I w I was holding it togetheruntil then, but they were like
kissing and goodbye and slowlyleaving one at a time to the
other room with their grandma.
And then it was just me and mymom and Luke's body, and I laid
on the bed um with him and I'llnever forget, like holding his
(16:42):
hand that was getting cold andjust crying like this, like this
wail.
I didn't realize realize howloud it was until my kids have
told me what that moment waslike for them in the other room.
Um, just this wail so deepbecause it's like a some nothing
you've ever experienced.
I knew for years that this wascoming, but nothing prepared me
for that moment um when his soulwould leave.
(17:06):
Um, and just I really like toshare this because it's
something God revealed to me.
So at the point when he wasdying, his eyes were locked in
the corner, and we were like,Are you seeing angels?
I mean, so many people havestories like this.
And two months later, and thenI'll get back to where I was.
Two months later, I went to agrief retreat and we um it was a
Christian grief retreat, and weasked God to show us, close our
(17:28):
eyes and take us back to ourmost painful moment, where were
you?
And showed me a bunch of things,and then all of a sudden I
experienced Luke's death as him.
Like I was in his head.
I felt his the first thing Ifelt was the most peace I've
ever felt my entire life.
Like unexplainable, heavenlypeace.
And I heard these thoughts, I'mokay to leave my family, which
(17:48):
was his biggest fear, and I feelno pain.
And when I looked up as Luke inthe corner, there was Jesus just
hovering right there over thiswhole scene.
And when I heard the song, I canonly imagine I, as Luke,
followed Jesus towards thelight, and that was my my
vision.
And I feel like that totally wasGod, and then he gave that to
(18:10):
me, not only for me, but toshare to others who wonder what
was it like for my loved one?
What were they feeling?
Well, they were probably feelinga lot of peace.
Like it's like this unexplained.
I mean, I've never had thatfeeling.
I'll probably never have itagain until heaven of this
unexplainable peace that Lukewas feeling.
And um, just such a gift thatGod gave me that that vision.
(18:32):
I met a girl at a grief retreatand she told me I was sharing my
story.
She raised her hand, she'scrying, she's like, My husband
was looking in the right cornertoo.
Like he was probably seeingJesus too.
I'm like, Yep, he probably was.
Um, but to go back to what lifewas like, like after he died, we
left the house because um thehospice nurses said, You don't
want your kids to see thecoroner coming.
(18:52):
It's not a pretty picture, soyou don't want him to be there.
So I rushed them out.
Um, I also have some regret ofnot staying with his body very
long, but I just needed to getthem out because someone had
already called the coroner.
And so went to my brother'shouse, came back hours later,
and I'll never forget theemptiness that the house felt.
Because every person actuallydoes have physical energy in
(19:13):
them, and when it's gone, it's adifferent, it feels different.
And you know, going into ourroom and seeing his prosthetic
leg just laying uh on the bed,and then like the ice was
melted, the heating power, likeeverything was there where we
left it, his glasses where heleft it, his cup, like
everything.
I didn't let anybody touchanything for a really long time,
and just that feeling ofemptiness.
(19:35):
And how am I gonna do this?
Like, how do I take care ofmyself and how do I take care of
my kids?
At that time, they were exactly12, 14, and 15.
And it was like, how am I gonnado this?
Like, my identity changed in aninstant.
I went from being married tosingle, and that changed a lot
of things, which we can get intoidentity stuff in a minute.
(19:56):
Um, but I was like, I don'tthink I can do this.
I don't think I can.
Thankfully, I had wonderfulfamily.
My best friend drove like sevenhours to get there, you know,
church family, lots of peoplesurrounding us, but I still felt
alone because this was adifferent kind of death.
My friends didn't know what thiswas like to lose a spouse.
At the end of the day, they weregoing home to their spouse.
(20:18):
My family had spouse.
It was just a different kind ofloss.
And learning how to single, Imean, solo parent, which is much
different than single parent,was very hard.
Like where you're making all thedecisions.
And my oldest did not react wellto his dad's death.
He started acting out.
He was 15.
You know, he would try to likerun away.
(20:39):
He would try to yell at us.
I mean, it was a horrible time,and I had to have like help with
him, you know.
Um, he's now 21, and he talksabout it that he just didn't
know what to do with his griefat that time.
And it was this dark place.
Like I tell people, it's like adark, dark cave.
Like you don't think you're evergonna get out.
And how I got out was slowly,very slowly, one moment at a
(21:03):
time.
It's not even a day at a time.
Like in the beginning, it's kindof a blur because you have so
much to do.
You've got to be, you have todeal with like burial plans and
you know, all of these things.
And this is COVID, so it wasreally hard.
Um, you know, people aren'tsupposed to be coming over, but
I at that moment that went outthe window.
I was like, I don't care, I needto see people.
Um, before we were reallycareful because he was high risk
(21:25):
and I didn't want anyone withCOVID, you know, to get him, you
know, for him to have COVID.
Um, oh, I always forget to tellthis.
So why his leg was hurting, thedoctor said he probably had a
blood clot, like why he died sosuddenly.
But it was actually a reallygood thing because he was so
scared of going down that pathof losing.
He didn't want us to have tochange him and feed him and all
the things.
He was so scared of this bigstrong man, didn't want us to do
(21:47):
that.
So I I'm thankful, even thoughwe lost like maybe a month with
him, but we didn't have to seethat.
My kids didn't have to see himdeclining like that.
They got to spend their his lastday with him, with him walking
around, talking and all that.
Um, but anyways, you know, afterhe died, it was a lot of who am
I now?
What am I gonna do?
So everything's busy in thebeginning.
(22:08):
Um his I think his service, hisfirst service was like two weeks
after he died.
The we did a burial, um, and itwas a horrible day.
It was awful.
And because of COVID, we couldonly have 10 people there, even
though it was outdoors.
So my own brothers had to be intheir cars watching it on live
stream, and just a really hardtime to plan things like that.
Um, and everything shut down.
(22:29):
There's no in-person counseling,there's no there's nothing,
which was really difficult.
When you need people, you can'tbe around people.
Um, so, anyways, after that, um,I really just dove into healing
like it was my job, and that'swhat I teach people.
When you're in grief, healing isyour job.
That's all you need to focus on.
But again, I'm carrying my griefand my kids' grief.
(22:50):
I'm grieving my husband, they'regrieving their dad, and I'm
grieving for them.
And so um I just felt like, youknow, turning on worship music,
crying on the floor.
I felt the peace that passes allunderstanding cover me.
Um, and that's really, Ibelieve, how I got through those
first couple months is a lot ofprayer.
I would often imagine I wascrawling on Jesus' lap and just
(23:12):
crying while he held me.
And he always met me there.
There, I mean, it was anindescribable peace.
And God says that he's close tothe brokenhearted and crushed in
spirit.
And I was like, that's me.
And I felt it.
I really felt it during thattime and a different closeness.
And how I explain grief is inthe beginning, it feels like
every day is like a big stormyclo storm, like clouds and rain.
(23:35):
And one day you see a little bitof light, a little sunshine,
something makes you smile, andyou're like, oh wow, there's
life after this.
And then slowly you start seeingmore sunshine until eventually,
where I am five and a half yearslater, it's mostly sunny, but
I'll have those days.
I had one a couple days ago.
Um, it was the 23-yearanniversary of when Luke and I
got engaged, and I had a day ofnot a whole day, just a little a
(23:58):
little bit of time in themorning of crying and feeling
it, but that's okay.
It's always gonna be with us, itjust doesn't hurt as bad as in
the beginning.
So I was going through thesestorm periods, but it was
starting to get better.
Um, I went to a grief retreat,which was a huge part of my
healing.
It was COVID, but somehow afriend of mine had found one
that was kind of like it wasvery outdoors that they were
(24:20):
doing it, which actually endedup being the place we did Luke's
celebration of life.
So it was all tied into thisplan that God had.
And I like sharing this parttoo.
A lot of amazing things happenedat that retreat.
Um, one of them is I was feelingum kind of what you were saying
about doubting God and like whydid this happen?
And um, am I being punished?
(24:40):
My husband died.
Is this a punishment?
I went into the retreat withthat thought.
Well, God revealed to me throughthe another vision he gave me.
Um, it was like this beautifultime when we're in worship, and
there was I was brought back toLuke's deathbed, and then I saw
Jesus placing a crown on myhead, and he said, Out of all
the people in the world, I choseyou to be Luke's wife, to walk
(25:03):
into death, and I'm so proud ofyou.
And in that moment, everythingchanged, reframed my whole thing
about Luke's death.
Like, no, this is a privilege.
And I like to teach that topeople, not just widows, that
whoever you have loved in yourlife that you've lost, like you
were chosen to be in their life.
And that's a beautiful insteadof like, why did my best friend
die?
Why did my mom die?
(25:24):
Why did I was chosen?
And so I'm hoping that helpslisteners because I know we've
all lost somebody.
Like, no, I was chosen, and Ireally focus on that when I work
with widows, and it helps somuch to just reframe that.
So I started getting healingjust a little bit at a time, and
um, you know, about three orfour months after, I was
(25:44):
starting to feel pretty good.
But I had looked for widowsgroups in churches, there were
none.
Um, I had made a few widowfriends.
I have one of my best friendsstill, she had reached out to me
on social media.
She had been widowed twice by40.
Um, and so she was able to helpme see that like I got through
this, you're gonna get throughit.
And so as I started to heal, Iwas like, I want to help other
(26:06):
people.
You know, there's no widowsgroup, there's no anything.
So I started to create what Iwish there would have been for
me.
So actually, the first, Ibelieve the first thing I did
was um create a TikTok channel,which was nothing I'd ever done.
And in the beginning, becausethat was like uh 21 when I
created it, um, I thought it wasjust a bunch of people dancing.
(26:26):
That's when it was pretty new.
But I found out there's actuallya lot of people wanting to learn
about a lot of things and thatthere's a gigantic widow
community.
And so I just started teachinglike I was like widow goal
number one, get out of bed, andjust started talking about
things that had helped me andfound a huge following and
connected with so many widows.
And then the next thing, um, Iwas on Facebook, is actually
(26:48):
where I found a ton of people Iconnected with because I didn't
really have anybody in my lifebesides the new widows I had
met.
Um I had one widow from a longtime ago, and the new widow I
was telling you about, and weall became friends and did a lot
of things together.
Um, but I didn't have a lot ofpeople.
Like I had Girls Night with myfriends, and they would talk
about their husbands, and justwas like, I need people who who
get this.
(27:09):
So on Facebook, I found acommunity called Young and
Widowed with Children, and um weuh I became friends with a lot
of people.
I met a widower and we becamereally good friends, and we
decided to start a podcast.
This was 11 months after Lukedied, because we were in this
group and we were like, thesepeople need Jesus, like we need
(27:29):
to show them like how we'regetting through this.
And so in 21, we started WidowedToo Soon.
It's now been going four years,and um, he was a widower with
young children, I'm a widow withteenagers, so we were able to
just talk through all thesubjects.
And as far as I know, it's stillthe only Christian widow
podcast.
Um, so we started doing that,and then I was like, I really
wish there were like groups forwidows, and so I started a
(27:53):
nonprofit called Widow Goals,and the motto is widows helping
widows not only survive butthrive.
And so it's all run by widows,the board's widows, like people
who've been through it, showingthe new widows you're gonna get
through this, because that's allI wanted to know in the
beginning.
And so I started a group in mylocal area, and we still meet
the third Monday of every month.
Um, fourth and uh Thanksgiving.
(28:14):
We had 20 widows here, we hadwidows in their 30s and widows
in their 80s and everywhere inbetween.
And it's such a beautiful time.
We just get this, like we getthis life, and we have a lot of
fun.
Um, and then other people saidto me, Well, I want a group, how
do I do it?
So I just started trainingpeople.
I made videos and was like, thisis how you do it.
And now we're in over 30 citiesacross the country and Canada.
And um so that nonprofit alsodoes retreats.
(28:38):
Um, we're planning our thirdretreat for January.
We have 70 widows that areregistered, it's in Dallas, and
um, that's a time of worship andpouring over these people, and
all of the speakers are widowsand the worship team.
In fact, my daughter's coming tosing on the worship team, which
I'm super excited about, andshe's launching a ministry for
the kids of widows because shesaid she's seen what I've done
(28:59):
and she wants to help peoplelike she wish she would have had
help.
She's 19 now.
And um, so I just started doingall these things.
I was an elementary teacherbefore Luke died.
Um, I actually went back for atiny bit after he died, and that
was confirmation.
No, this is not for me.
Like, um, I want to teachadults, I want to teach widows,
I want to pour into them.
I became a grief recoveryspecialist and started working
(29:20):
with people and helping themthrough their grief, and um just
really started pouring intopeople, and I watched God take
my morning and literally turninginto dancing.
That was part of um something Idid.
I started going line dancingwith my widow friends and just
learning like how to live lifeagain.
I remember kind of going to theidentity piece, like, okay, it
(29:44):
was really upsetting the firsttime I had a form to fill out,
and it was like widow.
And I was like, oh, I guess I'ma widow, which I had thought
widows were like 90 years oldwith a white button with cats
crawling on them.
That's literally not what Ithought a widow was.
And so my identity, who am I?
I'm not a wife anymore.
And then it became about like,who does God say I am?
Who am I in Christ?
(30:04):
Because really we can strip awayall the other titles.
Who are we inside?
And so I started working onthat.
And then I also was like, mylife is kind of like a blank
book, I could do anything Iwanted.
And though I would have neverchosen this, I was kind of
excited.
I was like, what do I want todo?
I get to redefine my life, andso you know, I started
paddleboarding and became apaddleboarder.
I started um financing, uh, youknow, I just started doing all
(30:27):
of these things to figure outwhat is something that brings me
life, what do I like?
I started pouring into people onmy podcast, and you know, the
best way to heal is to pour inother people, and so that really
helped with my healing, and Ialso decided I wanted to write a
book.
So actually, like backing it upto my first, I guess this was
(30:48):
the very first thing I did aboutsix months after Luke died.
I entered a contest withProverbs 31 women, and they were
having a contest for people toenter this thing called a book
proposal boot camp.
So there were over 800 entry uhentries, and I was one of the
top 110 or something.
And so they liked my book idea,and so I got to be coached on
how to make this book proposal,and in that time I wrote three
(31:09):
chapters of Widow Goals Steps toFinding Peace When You Lose Your
Spouse.
And there were I didn't win thecontest, and I just kind of put
it down and I know it wastotally God because I didn't
know what I was talking about 11months into my journey or six
months into my journey, and soum I put that on the shelf until
January of 25.
I was like, okay, it's gonna bethe five-year anniversary of
Luke's death.
(31:30):
I want to get this done in honorof him.
And so I really wrote it in fourmonths, wrote the the other 27
chapters, and decided like I'mgoing to do this.
And basically, what widow goalsis, it's steps you can take in
any order, like get out of bed,um, reenter social situations,
solo parenting, how to dateagain, like just all these
things that I learned over theyears, and they're all based in
(31:52):
scripture.
And um there's questions at theend and action steps, and I just
put everything into it that Iwanted.
And I read a lot of widow booksbecause I'm a podcast host,
people send them to me, butthey're usually like their story
with like 10% of tools of how tohelp people.
I switched it.
I'm like, no, it's gonna be 10%my story, 90% tools.
Like, I want like everyone wantsto know when they read a book,
(32:13):
like how's it gonna help me?
And so I wanted it to do that.
And then um, I had such a greatresponse that I went on to
create a workbook um with likeplaces to have prayer journals
and deeper questions, and thenpeople started using the book in
the workbook in groups, and so Icreated a leader's guide, and
now I'm my aim and mission is toget it into churches um and to
(32:35):
get people like doing thisbecause um being a widow in
church is one of the loneliestplaces.
Um, there's things made forfamilies, um, young couples,
couples like divorce care, youknow, all these things that are
great, but there's usually ifthere is, there's grief share,
which is great, but it's notspecifically widows.
Um, widows are mentioned 103times in the Bible, yet so few
(32:58):
churches actually um supportthem.
So I just every podcast I'm on,I just challenge people.
All you have to do is ask yourpastor or someone in leadership,
how do we support widows andmake sure your church has
something because most don'tlike I couldn't find anything,
and so that's why I started mynonprofit.
And so my big passion issupporting widows, especially
(33:19):
those first few months.
It's so beautiful in mynonprofit group.
When we hear of a new widow, weall sign a card for her, and
then I mail it to her, um, putmy phone number.
And this is this just happenedthis past uh few months ago.
We did that, and this widowreached out to me and said, That
card meant the world to me.
I'm coming next time, and nowshe's part of the group, and
some of us went to her husband'scelebration of life to support
(33:40):
her, and it's just like thissisterhood that comes together
and supports each other, and soit's been like the greatest um
calling of my life, you know.
And people ask me, which Ididn't even get into this part
of the story, why are you stillhere?
You're married again, which Igot married again two and a half
years ago to my amazing husbandJoel, who supports all of this,
you know.
And I say, because I've beenwidowed and I know what it feels
(34:03):
like, and I still want to helpthose people.
I don't have to be here, but Iwant to.
It's God's calling on my life.
I may be here forever, God maycall me somewhere else.
Um, I don't know.
But I just feel like if I had togo through it, I'm gonna use
this.
God doesn't waste any pain.
I'm gonna use this to help otherpeople, and so that's why I
created my podcast, TheNonprofit, The Retreat, all the
(34:25):
things that I do, the book, inorder to help people.
And now I'm going on otherpeople's podcasts and spreading
the word about really, it's justum education about widows and
grief.
Um, and there's so manymisconceptions about grief, and
I talk about what to say andwhat not to say, and you know,
all of those things.
And so I just want to be anadvocate for those who are
(34:48):
brokenhearted.
You know, I have widow friendswho not only lost their spouse,
but also their child at the sametime in car accidents.
I mean, it's just so manyheartbreaks, suicides.
I mean, it's just heartbreakingwhen you really dive in.
People don't know this is awhole world that exists that are
younger people.
Like most of my friends are like40s or younger that are widowed.
(35:09):
And um, it's just um, yeah, it'sa different world.
So, anyways, that's I guess in anutshell, I mean, that's a lot,
but that's my story with Lukeand how God redirected my life
as a widow.
Um, a couple days ago, my17-year-old, who's my youngest,
asked me, if you knew on yourwedding date to daddy that he
(35:30):
was gonna die, would you stilldo it?
And I said, Yes, a millionpercent yes, because your dad
made I made me who I am today.
You and your siblings would notbe here.
And God had a mission and acalling for me, and I wouldn't
be here without your dad.
You know, our first retreat, wewe were having a worship time,
and I felt like God brought meback to Luke's deathbed again,
(35:53):
and then looked at all the womenin the room who were crying, and
and and God was like, if Lukehadn't died, this moment
wouldn't be happening.
And it was like, whoa, just thisweird moment.
I would have never chose it.
I don't want it for my kids.
Um, but it was God's plan.
And so I believe that everythingthat happens in in life, God's
hand touches, he either allowsit or he he creates it, right?
(36:17):
So we know he doesn't um hedoesn't create sickness and
death, he doesn't caught causeis the word I'm looking for.
He doesn't cause sickness anddeath, but he allows it.
And so when Luke was sick, Iheard a sermon and the pastor
said, if God allowed it, I canaccept it.
And that's kind of been my mottoever since then.
Like, I trust God.
He allowed this, I can acceptit, you know, and so that's
(36:38):
really how I live my life.
Like, this is God's plan.
Never would have chosen it.
Um, but there's been so muchgood in it.
I've seen so much good with thewidows that I've met around the
world.
You know, as a podcaster, youget emails from people around
the world and you're like, okay,this is working.
Because sometimes when you'resitting by yourself with a
microphone, you're like, is thisreally doing any good?
And then you hear from peopleand you're like, okay, I have a
(37:01):
sticker on my computer that saysgo into all the world and preach
the good news.
And we get to do that aspodcasters.
We get to share our faith aroundthe world while sitting at our
home.
How amazing is that?
Like, I think it's the best timeperiod to be alive to be able to
do what we do.
So that's pretty much my story.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
That's your story.
Yeah.
Um, so much to unpack, but I'mgonna do my best here.
SPEAKER_04 (37:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (37:26):
Um, you first of all, I commend you immensely for
getting at that and being therefor those kids and staying
rooted in your faith becauselots of people turn away.
(37:48):
Especially when they go throughthis amount of break.
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
And I as a daughter, I can relate to your daughter
when you mentioned your daughterand you know, having to say
goodbye.
It brought me back to that phonecall that my mother made to me
the very first time she thoughtmy father was gonna pass away.
SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
And and daddy passed away last June.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Lots of similarities in just like watching it through
her eyes and watching it throughyour eyes so that I could
understand my mother best,right?
Because my mother saw thedecline, and yet he had our last
Christmas.
I have pictures of that lastChristmas, and I took pictures
of the most precious moments,moments that are fleeting for
(38:47):
most people because they're sobusy with life, and that it they
just they don't stop and pause.
SPEAKER_03 (38:54):
What makes you stop and pause is the grief, the
grief forces you to look atthose moments as the most
precious moments.
Like I have a picture of my momand my dad sitting on my dad's
recliner watching TV, and my dadjust like scratching her back.
SPEAKER_02 (39:15):
Just such a tender moment of her just sitting with
him, or a picture of my dadsitting in a wheelchair because
he couldn't walk anymore.
He had a brain tumor, and it washe was terminal, and my daughter
had a hard time that evening forwhatever reason it was Christmas
(39:36):
Eve, and he looks concerned andlooked at her and said, Um,
what's wrong, Cachatona?
Cachetona is Spanish for cheeky,for big cheeky and she walked up
to him, and there was a specialmoment between them, and I had
my phone and I just captured itand I turned to that picture
(39:58):
sometimes.
SPEAKER_04 (39:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
But going to your journey, I'm really curious how
must have been traps that youfell into that I know people
fall into when they're in thosedark spaces.
How did you stay rooted in youridentity in Christ and not turn
(40:21):
away from him?
SPEAKER_05 (40:23):
That's a great question.
SPEAKER_06 (40:25):
Um you know I've never doubted my relationship
with Jesus or like my faith asfar as like believing like what
is true.
Um I don't know.
I have just always accepted it.
Like this is this is what it is.
But yes, there were definitelydark times.
There were times when I wastrying to figure out who am I
(40:47):
now.
Um there was um a lot of justlike being lost.
I think that's the best wordsthat I tell people when you're
widowed, you just feel so lost.
When you lose a spouse,literally everything in your
life changes.
What you shop for to eat, likewhat you watch on TV, like
literally everything changes.
And so there was a lot of like,I would say that I can look back
(41:09):
at time periods when I was lost,like, you know, going out late
at night with friends and mykids waiting up for me, like
things like that.
That I'm like, who, what was Idoing, you know, at that point?
Like I was really lost.
Um, and I can look back and I'mnot proud of all my moments.
And, you know, I had some dateswith other people before Joel
(41:30):
that I'm not proud of.
And like, you know, there was atime when I was just like, yeah,
I would get periods of timewhere I'm like kind of angry and
just mostly just trying tofigure out who I am when I'm not
married to Luke, like that partof my life.
Like, how do I act as a singlewoman in my 40s?
Like, I don't even know how todo this.
But I believe, like, no matterwhat I did, you know, even if I
(41:52):
made mistakes, which I did makemistakes along the way, um, I
never lost like my faith inJesus.
Like, I would do things wrong,but I knew they were wrong.
But I never like I neverdoubted.
Somebody asked me that on apodcast yesterday about like,
have you ever doubted?
I'm like, I actually haven't.
Like, I've always just believedand believed that God has a
plan, but I know that it doeshappen.
(42:14):
My oldest son, um, he's doesn'tknow what he believes right now.
He's 21 and he's like, ifthere's a God, why didn't he
heal my dad?
And he's kind of in that place.
And I I have to let him gothrough his own questions and
he's all of that.
And um, you know, my other twokids reacted differently, like
they grew closer to God, buteverybody is different.
And so um, yeah, but Idefinitely had had those hard
(42:38):
times and those times, but Ijust I don't know, he always
comforted me when I got in thosedeep dark pits.
Um, I was always able to cry outto him and be covered with
peace.
And then having community ishuge.
You don't want to be byyourself, you know.
So finding other people like toreach out to.
Like I actually had a wholegroup text um that I would text
(42:59):
anytime.
Like it started when Luke wassick, like just friends and
family.
I could just text.
And I did it after he died too.
Like, hey, I need prayer rightnow, or I need this, or I need,
you know, and so I would always,and that's actually a chapter in
my book called Call on YourTribe, and it's about finding
your people and don't be afraidto ask for help because we need
it.
That's the only way you can getthrough it with God and people.
If you're in that deep grief,you need someone to pull you
(43:21):
out, you need someone to tellyou it's gonna get better.
You need someone to um sit withyou in the mud, like come to the
ugly.
We don't need people to say tous, and I'm sure you've
experienced this with the lossof your dad.
People say the wrong thing.
I'll tell the thick audience twothings not to say and two things
to say.
Don't ever say, I know how youfeel, and fill it in with
(43:42):
anything.
Even if you have a similar loss,you don't know.
Like we're all different.
Um, the one that widows hate themost is when people say, I know
how you feel, I'm divorced.
And I do understand that's a biggrief because my husband Joel
has been divorced.
I know it's a it's a big grief,but it is not the same,
especially if you have kids,they have both parents.
Um, but anything that startswith I know how you feel, just
(44:03):
don't say it.
Instead say, I don't know howyou feel, but I'm here to
listen.
And then just be quiet.
Just sit with us.
That's what we want.
Another thing not to say is atleast.
Anything that starts with atleast, at least you had this
many years.
At least he's not in pain.
At least you're young, you'llget married again.
But diminishes the griever'spain, you know.
(44:23):
So we don't want to say that.
We just want to be there forthem.
Also, don't say, um, let me knowif you ever need anything.
I have been guilty of sayingthat before I knew that wasn't a
good thing to say.
So grievers don't know what theyneed, they're just lost.
And it's like we can't makedecisions, so we need someone to
step up and say, This is whatI'm going to do for you.
I had friends who said, We'regonna come over and clean your
(44:45):
house.
We are bringing you a meal, weare taking the kids, we are
having a girls' night andbringing over some soup.
I remember they did that likefour days after he died.
Like, you just need friends andfamily to step up.
And I I love educating peoplebecause I didn't know this
before Luke died.
I didn't know what to say andnot to say, and I also
personally feel like it's worseto not say anything because it's
(45:07):
like not acknowledging what wewent through.
And so Agrava would rather yousay something.
I I mean I even prefer the wrongthing over nothing.
And I heard once that we shouldlisten to their hearts, not
their words.
So I try to do that, likethey're speaking up and they're
trying, and I commend that, andI am I love that they're saying
(45:27):
something.
Um, but yeah, we just needpeople to be with us and to sit
there with us.
SPEAKER_02 (45:32):
I I had a question that came up because I have a
very good friend who lost herhusband in 2021.
And I wanted like to understandwhat working through it look
like for you versus um avoidingit through doing multiple
(45:54):
projects and dating and is thatworking through it or is that
no, working through it issitting in your pain, like
feeling it.
SPEAKER_06 (46:03):
The literally the only way to get through grief is
to feel it.
You have to feel it.
Um, there's a a quote I say allthe time, what we feel God can
heal.
Like we have to feel it.
So you see the grievers whoeither they just stop it down or
they do keep busy.
That's a grief myth that youshould keep busy.
It's actually one of the worstthings you can do.
And that's why a griever can bein the same place five years
(46:26):
because they didn't do the work.
So, for example, if I went to mycar, had a flat tire, and I
said, I'm gonna come back in ayear, I think it's gonna be
better.
But I did nothing, I didn't putthe air in it, it would still be
flat.
And so the people that arealways keeping busy and maybe
they're distracting themselvesjust with dating a lot, all of
that, they're not actuallyworking through it, and it's
going to hit them at some point,and it's it's not gonna be
(46:47):
pretty.
My counselor actually said too,my youngest when he was 12, you
need to get your grief outbecause it's like constipation,
and if you don't, you're gonnaexplode.
And it was like a really greatillustration for a 12-year-old
boy to think of like why I needto talk about this.
It's so much that even I learnedthis through the grief recovery
method, which is what I'mcertified in, that we have to
(47:07):
let people grieve, like, noteven, you know, um, we like to
comfort people, like rub theirback all the time, all this
stuff.
No, we need to let them feel it.
So, for example, my daughter acouple years ago was having a
trigger and really crying abouther dad, and I just let her cry
and I explained it to her.
I want you to feel this becauseif I like try to rub your back
and stop you from crying, you'reactually like I'm stopping your
grief, and I want you to getthrough it.
(47:29):
Now, of course, when they'redone, you can hug them, but let
people feel it.
Don't try to change the subject.
Don't try like we need peopleliterally to come sit with us
and let us cry.
We don't need someone to fix us,we don't want someone to fix us,
we just want someone to listen.
And then I can tell you anotherthing that would mean a lot to
your friend, because so manypeople forget about this.
(47:50):
There are really hard days whenyou're widowed.
The hardest, in my opinion, twothe two hardest your death, you
the death anniversary, so likethe day that they died, and your
would-be wedding anniversary.
Like I'm married again, but Istill grieve on my would-be
anniversary with Luke.
And so, what we need is peopleto call us or text us on that
day and say they rememberedbecause nobody does.
(48:12):
The very first year, my bestfriend who was there, she forgot
the date of his you know deathanniversary.
And so I told her that reallyhurt me, and she put it in her
calendar, never forgets again.
And um, also I have anotherfriend who never forgets.
Well, it happens to be herbirthday, so she never forgets
my wedding anniversary.
I never forget her birthday.
Um, and she reaches out everyyear, and I actually created a
(48:33):
space for widows that they'vegiven me their dates, and I have
an email that goes to them thatI pray over them on those days
because it's so hard because somany people don't do that.
So I advise for you and forlisteners, get the date, like
figure out what if you don'tremember, ask somebody like get
the date, put it in yourcalendar and say think even a
little text thinking of youtoday.
(48:53):
That means so much.
Like my own family, like doesn'talways remember my brothers,
anybody like so it means so muchthat somebody acknowledges it,
and especially also if you canfind her wedding anniversary,
because that's another onebecause people don't know
remember it because it's nottheir day, it's not like
Christmas, it's not all the bigholidays.
Like, yeah.
So um, if you're listening, ifyou know someone that's lost,
(49:15):
someone doesn't have to be aspouse, they've lost someone
they love, get those dates andplease reach out to them because
one of the things is you justfeel so alone.
I felt so alone until I built awhole widow community and found
other people who are goingthrough the same thing.
The funny thing is that I amthat friend that texts her.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
Oh, yeah, that anniversary.
And that's awesome.
She married, they married a weekbefore my second husband and I
married.
There's a lot of similaritiesbetween us.
SPEAKER_05 (49:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
I just have never had a my spouse die, which I
don't, you know, so I can'trelate.
But um, and I remember exactlywhen he died and what I was
doing that day.
Because I texted her to see ifthey needed anything.
They were all sick with COVID athome, and she said, I need
prayers because Robert passedaway this morning.
(50:10):
And I just I it stopped megetting my drugs because I was
walking near her her her uhneighborhood.
But I knew she was a veryprivate person and I didn't want
to interfere, and I was waitingfor her to kind of reach out,
but like you said, you you'relost during those days, you're
(50:30):
in a flurry of activity becausethere's so much going on.
Yes.
Um, but when it dies down iswhen they really need us.
And and one of the things I'veI've done periodically, and I've
stopped doing it recentlybecause I I don't want to
overstep my bounds, is I knowshe was struggling a lot with
her faith.
She was very angry with God,rightly so.
(50:52):
I mean, there's people thatdon't have that faith, that
don't rely, they may havereligion, but they don't have
faith, and there's a very bigdistinction, I think, there.
Um, and I know she wasstruggling and she was sharing
it with me.
So there were times indevotionals that I would be
sitting having my coffee chatswith God in the morning, and I
(51:15):
would send some devotionals ifher face would show up in my
awareness, and that's the waythat the Holy Spirit kind of
communicates with me.
I get visions like you, yeah,and of certain people and
certain events, and I would bereading and I would be brought
back to a conversation fromyears before, and I would share
(51:36):
that with her and say, you know,there's something in this
devotional that's meant for you.
I don't know what it is becauseI'm forgotten I don't see your
heart.
I don't know what's going onright now, but I just feel that
you need to receive this.
And so sometimes I'll hear backfrom her, sometimes I won't.
So I'm wondering if, like, inthe times I don't hear back, if
I've overset my boundaries, orshe just got busy or something,
(52:00):
you know.
Um, because we do want to bethere for the people that have
been through this loss, and wedon't want to share our
experiences because they don'treally matter.
They what matters is for us tosit and be present with people,
and I've learned that in thelast two weeks.
You remember at the beginning ofthe podcast that I shared with
(52:22):
you that I fell from grace,yeah, but that long pause, I'm
actually grateful for it as hardas it was to go through it,
because it forced me to see theway I was showing up for people
and not showing up for peopleand what I could do to correct
it, you know.
And I thought a lot of theseinstances with my friends and
(52:48):
with other friends going throughother losses, like the
separation with the spouse andhow that was impacting their
kids.
And so I don't I want to be abetter friend and a better um
soul sister to them because I Icare about them and I love them
and I don't want them to feellike they're alone in this
(53:10):
because we're not alone.
God is always with us.
That that peace that you talkabout, I felt that peace on the
day my father died.
Yeah, because I had I hadsurrendered that grief to him
daily, yes, from the moment Iheard your dad's terminal
because I knew it was mygreatest fear.
(53:31):
I was like, I don't know if thisthing's gonna take me down or
not.
And I would go into my war room,my prayer closet, yeah, and just
I was sobbing every day.
It was awful because I knew itwas coming, and I was terrified
of that.
And the interesting thing wasthat day that he died was the
(53:53):
most beautiful day.
It was a Sunday, it's myfavorite day of the week because
I get to go to church.
Yes, I had to be more and morewith God, right?
And it didn't allow me, it itSunday didn't become an ugly day
for me, interestingly enough.
Um I mean because God carried methat day.
And I was there with my dad'sbody when it was being zipped
(54:18):
up.
SPEAKER_03 (54:19):
And my son My son was there with him too.
As young as he was, he was thereand he was hanging my dad's head
as he was like you in a way.
(55:02):
Somehow you find a stranger likethat to make sense.
He needed to be fine.
He's hard as a daddy for yourkids.
(55:31):
They didn't have time.
They were so young.
But they had you and they hadGod with them as well.
Because he was ill with them.
He helped them like babies inhis arms and thank you for
sharing the vision that God gaveyou because I dad.
(55:57):
I wonder what that moment waslike for Thank you for sharing
that.
It gave me even more peace.
So it's important for all of usthat are listening to share our
stories because you don't knowthe answer you'll receive to a
(56:24):
prayer or a thought that hasbeen annoying at you for years.
And uh Michelle, I I want toleave you uh the space to say
anything you want to say to sayto sign us off on the show.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
Anything you want to share with people, and I also
want to know how to be in touchwith you so that the writers
listening on the show can reachout to you and see if there's
anything, any groups in theirarea that they can belong to.
SPEAKER_05 (56:57):
Yeah, well thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (56:58):
Um grief is is definitely difficult, um, no
matter who you lose.
And so I'm sorry for your lossas well and for your kids,
because it's a very difficultjourney.
I feel like where I am in myjourney now, I grieve mostly for
my kids.
Um, you know, I'm remarried,that doesn't mean I don't still
grieve, Luke, but I have someonein that role.
(57:21):
I do have a husband to come hometo all of that.
They'll never have a dad, youknow, again, and so I grieve
like when I've had um two ofthem graduate um high school,
about to have a third, you know,without him um taking the oldest
two to college, like just allthe all three of them getting
their driver's license, likethese moments, I just feel it.
And and Haley, my daughter toldme the other day, she's like, I
(57:43):
get sad all the time, all themoments daddy's gonna miss.
I was like, I know, I'm sorry.
Um, but anyways, just wanted toshare that part.
I it's so hard.
But I would say um I would loveto connect with anybody, widowed
or not, that wants to talk aboutgrief.
Um, the best place to findpretty much everything we talked
about is widowgoals.org.
(58:04):
It has um all the cities that Ihave groups in, it has the
retreat information, um, mypodcast, which is called Widowed
Too Soon.
You can just look that upanywhere, but I do have a link
for that.
Um, my books, all of it arethere.
And you can also email me,Michelle at widowgoals.org.
And then also if you're onFacebook and you're widowed,
please join our widow community,also called Widowed Too Soon
(58:28):
with the number two.
It's called Widow Too Sooncommunity.
And there's over 13,000 peopleand they are supporting each
other.
It's a beautiful community.
Um, so we'd love to have youpart of that.
We do still have a few spots forthe retreat.
So um, if you're interested, um,please uh you know send me a
message or look at theinformation and get registered
as soon as possible.
(58:48):
We'd love to have you there.
It's such a time of healing, andI just want to encourage
everyone listening, whatevergrief you're going through to
know a couple things, it's notalways gonna hurt as bad as it
does today.
Um, if you're in that beginningplace and to feel it, don't
stuff the pain.
What we feel God can heal andlet yourself feel the pain no
matter where you're at.
It doesn't matter what anybodythinks, your healing is more
(59:10):
important than what anybodythinks.
So just let yourself feel it.
SPEAKER_02 (59:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much, Michelle,for joining us.
Um at least that would be apurpose.
And for the listeners, rememberMatthew 5.14 to be the light, be
the light.
It's hard to be a light whenyou've been in a dark place, but
still be a light because when weserve others, we are uh serving
ourselves as well.
(59:34):
You know, service is love madevisible, and that's something
that sits on my desk.
As a reminder, it's an anonymousquote, nobody knows who wrote
that, but it's something thathas kept me going on those dark
days.
Um, when I want to throw a pityparty for myself or um feel
victim to anything, that onlykeeps us in that dark space
(59:56):
longer, but when we when we stepand Just get out of bed, like
Michelle said, or we go and weserve somebody else.
It lifts our spirit in a waythat God knows it will, and
that's why He's He's promptingus to step out and do those
things.
And so whatever your heart andyour soul is is pulling you to
(01:00:17):
do, do that.
Listen to that voice, because itis the Holy Spirit and He loves
you and He's with you every stepof the way.
You are not alone in thisjourney.
And please reach out to Michellebecause she knows she's been
there, she understands more thanany of us that have never been
(01:00:37):
in that situation before.
So uh please share this episodeif it touched your heart and if
you feel moved to do that.
And so I love y'all.
Thank you, Michelle.
Love you too.
Thank you for your story ofgrief and and transformation and
pain to purpose.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
And uh love y'all.
Stay blessed.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:03):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance on the grandprize drawing to win a
twenty-five thousand dollarprivate VIP day with Sylvia
(01:01:24):
Worsham herself.
Be sure to head on over torelease out reveal
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry, and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_03 (00:31):
Hey Library, it's Sylvia Warsham.
Welcome to Released Out RevealPurpose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
And today is Michelle Bader Ebersoll.
Grief.
This is gonna be the topic oftoday's podcast.
But it's not just about grief,it's about pain to purpose
because sometimes we're caughtin this first life, in this
first act, and we think this isit for us.
(00:58):
And then something happens thatjust wakes us up to the
possibility of rising from thatpain.
Michelle went through the mostunimaginable loss, losing her
spouse and raising threeteenagers.
(01:19):
I was telling Michelle, I waslike, I'm amazed, truly amazed,
how she managed to find thestrength and the courage.
SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
And they both share the same faith.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
But I'm sure in those dark days she questioned
whether God was with her,because we all do.
Sometimes it just the doubts canreally cloud and make it dark in
our hearts and souls, and thenthere's a glimmer of light, and
in that glimmer of light iswhere we start to take baby
(01:54):
steps out of that darkness.
I've been not where Michelle hasbeen, because I've never lost a
spouse, but I have lost in mylife, and loss and grief they go
truly hand in hand because loveit's an expression of the love
that we lost, and we gotta pickup the pieces, and we know that
(02:17):
God is going to pick up thosepieces and use it for his
purpose, and that's why Michelleis here today, because she wants
to share this amazing story oftransformation.
So, Michelle, thank you so muchfor joining us on release
outreal purpose.
Yes, thank you so much forhaving me.
SPEAKER_06 (02:34):
I'm excited to be here today.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Yeah, I'm excited to have you, and as I spoke and
very heartfelt, I felt thepresence of the Holy Spirit
within my heart space and righthere in my face.
So I know he's here.
Yes.
And I know that you have an atruly remarkable journey that
(02:58):
you want to share with us.
So please dive in.
Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (03:03):
Yes, um, to understand my story, we kind of
have to go way back in time toget the full picture of all of
these things.
But, you know, my life is neverwhere I thought it would be.
You know, the older I get, themore that me and my friends were
like, yeah, this isn't where wethought we've all been through
stuff, like all of us now,right?
And to on your point aboutgrief, grief is the change of
(03:26):
any pattern or a loss in yourlife.
So we have all, every singleperson listening, you've
experienced grief.
So this, you know, all of thisstory, it applies to you because
we've all been there.
So I want to take it way back umto high school.
You have to to get the fullpicture where I met Luke, my
first husband.
Um, Luke and I were in highschool together.
(03:46):
We never dated, but we werefriends.
And then four years later, Icame, he was a year above me.
So I guess five years from whenhe graduated, I came uh back
from college, ran into himthrough mutual friends.
Um, three months later, we wereengaged.
Like it was just this likecrazy, like we knew right away
that we wanted to get married.
It's totally God's timing.
I can look back at that now andsee that.
(04:08):
And then we got married a yearfrom our first date.
And before we got married, hewas a mail carrier.
Um, so kind of give you he was25, I was 24, give you a little
frame of reference there.
And um, he had a walking routeand he noticed a lump in his
ankle, and he went to the doctorand they were like, You're
young, it's tendonitis, don'tworry about it.
(04:29):
Well, it kept getting bigger,and then finally, um we uh he
had it biopsied, and they saidit is mesin chymal
chondrosarcoma, a very rare bonecancer.
So we were completely shocked.
I mean, I never thought he wouldhave cancer.
He was 25, I was 24, we had justgotten married.
(04:50):
Oh, we'd also just gottenpregnant like two months after
we got married.
There was so much going on, andum, I was like, this isn't real,
you know.
I I went through some anger atthat point in my life because
all of my friends were justgetting married, having babies,
as was I, but their husbandswere healthy.
It was a really difficult timefor me.
So we dove into treatment.
(05:11):
Um, we didn't know anything, wejust did whatever the doctor
said because we were so young,and he started chemotherapy, and
it um it didn't work.
Like it just didn't shrink thetumor, it just made him sick and
affected the rest of his life.
Um, so then they said, okay, youhave a choice.
You can have a surgery where weremove the tumor, but you'll
(05:32):
wear a special boot and there'sa high chance it could come
back, or we can do abelow-the-knee amputation.
So a lot of prayer and seekingcounsel, we decided on the
below-the-knee amputationbecause he was like, you know,
we're having a baby and I wantto live as long as possible.
And I'm like, Yeah, me too.
I want you to live as long aspossible.
So um that was May 7th of 2004,when he had his leg amputated,
(05:54):
and we always considered thathis cancer-free day because
thankfully the cancer wasnowhere else in his body.
So he had his leg amputated,which completely changed him.
He was like all-star athlete,like really um athletic, and to
lose a leg was so hard on him,not only physically but
emotionally.
Um, he had to learn to walkagain.
(06:16):
There was a lot of painassociated with it.
Most people know about this.
It's called phantom pain.
You can feel like your leg is onfire or um it's being like cut.
It's like these nerves that arestill firing in your leg where
it's amputated.
It was a really, reallydifficult time.
Um, and he ended up, he wentback as a mail carrier, like
(06:36):
with a driving route, but it wasstill too much on him
physically.
And so I had to work full-time.
My dream was to be astay-at-home mom.
Um, my son was six weeks old,Hayden, when I had to go back to
work because Luke wasn'tworking.
And so that was another layer oflike, this isn't fair.
I want to be home with my baby.
I'd have to bring in the pumpsand pump at lunchtime.
And I was like, I just want tobe home with my baby.
(06:58):
You know, I had a lot of thisisn't fair when I was young.
Um, so then we went on um tohave two more kids.
So in three and a half years, wehad three kids because the
doctors also said we probablycouldn't have more kids, but we
could.
Um, so we had my oldest uh wasthree and a half, and then we
had an 18-month-old and anewborn, and that was a crazy
(07:20):
time.
Um, but it was very joyous.
There's a lot of great thingsabout that time period.
But Luke never fully recovered.
He was sick the rest of his lifewith all kinds of things.
So the chemo really hurt hisimmune system.
So he'd get every littlesickness, he developed diabetes,
cirrhosis, pancreatitis, and somuch more.
So he was sick on and off ourwhole marriage.
(07:42):
But the cancer wasn't there.
So we just lived life as best aswe could.
There was a lot of, it was ahard time in my life, a lot of
financial pressure, um, a lot ofpressure on me to do pretty much
everything.
He wasn't able to help a lotwith the kids.
I mean, he did at home, but likeas far as rides and this and
that, he was sick a lot.
Um, so fast forward 13 and ahalf years, and um, he notices
(08:06):
like he's having some pain inwhat he thought was his liver.
And since he had cirrhosisbefore, he went in to get a scan
and they scanned all of his um,like the front of him, and they
found some tumors in his chest,in his lungs.
And so we knew it was bad, andthey told us, you know, this is
terminal.
Like this is, you know, we'regonna do the best we can, but
(08:26):
this is terminal.
So we sat down with our kids.
That was such a hardconversation.
I believe they were 9, 11, and13 at the time, and they knew
about his cancer.
So I actually wrote a book umafter his first cancer
explaining the whole thing.
Like I wanted to write it downwhile I was fresh.
So they had read about his firstcancer journey, they knew all
about it.
And so sitting them down andtelling them like it's back,
(08:47):
that was such a hardconversation.
But telling them, like, we'regonna, you know, we're gonna
fight this.
He did not want to do chemo, butwe couldn't find anything else.
Like we looked for all kinds ofalternative therapies.
There really wasn't for his kindof cancer.
Um, so clinical trials, therewas nothing.
Um, so sitting them down andtelling them was really
heartbreaking, but we went inwith a good attitude, like,
(09:10):
we're gonna fight this, um,we're gonna pray for healing.
Um, and I did, you know, starttelling them as it progressed,
like healing may be in heaven.
Like we know he will be healed.
You know, I had people tell me,like, you should just tell them
he's gonna be healed no matterwhat.
You've got to have that strongfaith.
I'm like, I have faith, but I'mnot setting up to hate God.
(09:31):
I don't know God's plan.
I want him to be healed onearth, but I don't know.
So um we went down this path ofchemo, and you know, it was it
was way worse this time withhaving kids watch him throw up
and lose his hair and get weakand all of the things.
So this time, like, it's notjust me.
I've got three young kids, likeum two teenagers, one almost
(09:51):
teenager, like taking themthrough this.
And it was um, it was only gotstrength, really, that I was
able to do it.
I was still working, taking careof them, trying to help Luke
with all his stuff.
And eventually it got to a placewhere the doctor said there's
nothing else we can do.
Um, it's time to just havequality of life.
And we really worked on qualityof life.
(10:12):
We um found this place calledthe Dream Foundation.
They grant last wishes forterminal adults.
And up until that point, I'donly heard of that for kids, but
a friend found this for me.
And the five of us had neverbeen on a plane together.
We just couldn't afford it.
And we went to Disneyland andhad this beautiful time.
We have such beautiful picturesand memories from that time,
also some hard ones because hewas sick.
(10:33):
Um, but such a great memory.
And then he was a huge umUniversity of Oregon, like
Oregon Doc fan football.
So we got to go to their games,go down on the field, go to the
locker room.
Like, we just really lived lifethe best that we could.
And he was slowly getting worse.
Eventually went on hospice.
Um, and we were with hospice for11 months.
Like I saw it as something thatwas VIP care.
(10:56):
That's how I got Luke to do it.
I'm like, you no longer have togo to the doctor, they come to
us.
It doesn't mean you're dyingright now.
We can reevaluate in six months.
Like, it's not like you're dyingright now.
And so we did that, and we hadthis angel, she was an amazing
hospice nurse a Christian andjust even gave me her home phone
number.
I could call her anytime and wasjust amazing just to have that
help.
(11:16):
So he got gradually worse.
Um, and it was also 2020.
So the kids were home, um, youknow, starting in March of 2020,
and we can now see it as ablessing of time we got with
him.
And so we would spend every heslept most of the day, but in
the evenings we would watch afamily movie and have popcorn
like almost every night.
(11:37):
And that's you know, the kidslike very good memories, like
remembering that I actually havea list of every movie we watched
because I kept tracking them,and it was just this very sweet
time of family, and um just abeautiful, beautiful time, and
just to kind of give you aglimpse of just I don't know how
amazing he was.
Randomly, and um let's see, thatwas the beginning of May or the
(12:02):
end of April.
He was like, Let's go get yourwedding ring fixed.
And so I had my old weddingring, like the diamond had
fallen out, and we got a cheapreplacement, we couldn't afford
anything.
And I was like, Why do you wantto do that now?
And he's like, Well, we got thatstimulus check, you know.
Remember in COVID, there wasstimulus check.
So there was nothing open.
This was COVID, but someoneheard our story and opened up a
(12:24):
local jewelry store and let justme and him go in.
And it was just such a sweettime, like picking out this
diamond, like it was a it wasour last date, like just me and
him.
It was a beautiful time.
And um, you know, it was reallyhard for me to accept it because
I'm like, I don't know if I'llwear this forever.
And the hospice nurse was like,It's his last wish, just go with
(12:45):
it.
I'm like, okay.
And then what's even morebeautiful is on the day it was
ready, the kids wanted to gobecause they had nowhere to go.
They're like, we want to go,we're just stuck in the house.
And so we all went, and the umthe jeweler, she actually took a
video of me opening the ring,and she took our last family
picture, and that was um thatwas May 13th, it was 10 days
before he died.
(13:06):
We got a family picture, so it'sone of my most treasured
pictures, and I have thetreasured video of him giving me
the ring, and just such abeautiful time of like him
showing his love, even though Iremember he was like throwing up
and sick that day, like hereally just wanted to do this
for me.
And um, May 22nd, the hospicenurse came and told him, you
know, you're really starting todecline.
(13:27):
We're probably gonna have to geta hospital bed.
He was fully functional up untilthis point.
And she told me privately, maybefour to six weeks left.
And I was just updating thekids, like when I would pray
with them and I'd kind oftelling them where everything's
at, still praying for a miracleevery single day.
And um, May 22nd, we just hadthis beautiful family hug, even
with the dog.
(13:47):
I can look back and see allthese beautiful things, watched
a movie together, and um, himand I just stayed up and he
wanted me to make him a grilledcheese sandwich and just had
this wonderful time.
I go, This is our best date.
And he's like, Yeah, this isgreat.
And that was our last nighttogether.
And I woke up in the morning onMay 23rd and the lights were on,
and he was looking for somemedicine.
(14:08):
He's like, My calf really hurts.
Can you get me a heating pad?
I tried that, it didn't help.
Can you get me some ice?
Like, we were trying all thesedifferent things, and all of a
sudden he wasn't able tobreathe.
So I called um the hospice nurseand they said to put oxygen on
him, and like nothing washelping.
And then they told me, like,this is probably it, and I was
(14:28):
really confused and like youneed to go wake up your kids.
And it was like 4 a.m.
And I'll never forget the soundof telling my daughter Haley,
who was 14 at the time, likeit's time to say goodbye to
daddy, and she was like, No,it's not, because I just told
her we had more time.
I'm like, it is, and the onlyway I can describe those moments
(14:49):
that maybe hour we had with himwas God gave me a supernatural
peace to walk my kids through itbecause I was so scared of what
it would be like.
I mean, it was like my worstfear, and I knew it was coming.
But I was so calm, and I hadseen him suffer, him not be able
to breathe, his eyes roll in hishead, but the kids didn't.
By the time they got in there, Iknow God protected them.
He was just completely calm,looking up in the corner, just
(15:11):
eyes locked there, which isanother part of my story I'll
get to.
Um, and I was able to talk tohim.
I said, You are gonna hear, welldone, my good and faithful
servant, and you're gonna meetmy grandparents today.
And like he just God gave methis like strength, and I was
like telling my kids, your dadcan hear you, talk to him, and
just leading them through thistime.
I was able to call his mom andmy mom and get everybody there.
(15:34):
And we had about an hour when hewas still alive, just talking to
him and he was trying to speak,and it was like he was saying, I
I and it's like I'm like, it'sokay, we know you love us.
Like, I know that's what he wastrying to say.
Actually, my son had a dreamabout it later that that's what
he was trying to say.
And um we my daughter sang, Youare my sunshine, which was their
song, but it was beautiful, andthen for some reason I grabbed
(15:57):
my phone and played the song ICan Only Imagine, which is about
heaven.
And during that song is actuallywhen he took his last breath.
That's when the nurse came inand said he's no longer with us.
And that's when it got reallyhard.
Um, there's nothing to prepareyou for what it's like to watch
a soul leave a body, especiallyyour um your spouse, and to
(16:21):
watch your kids watch that.
And when it was time for my kidsto say goodbye.
Um I w I was holding it togetheruntil then, but they were like
kissing and goodbye and slowlyleaving one at a time to the
other room with their grandma.
And then it was just me and mymom and Luke's body, and I laid
on the bed um with him and I'llnever forget, like holding his
(16:42):
hand that was getting cold andjust crying like this, like this
wail.
I didn't realize realize howloud it was until my kids have
told me what that moment waslike for them in the other room.
Um, just this wail so deepbecause it's like a some nothing
you've ever experienced.
I knew for years that this wascoming, but nothing prepared me
for that moment um when his soulwould leave.
(17:06):
Um, and just I really like toshare this because it's
something God revealed to me.
So at the point when he wasdying, his eyes were locked in
the corner, and we were like,Are you seeing angels?
I mean, so many people havestories like this.
And two months later, and thenI'll get back to where I was.
Two months later, I went to agrief retreat and we um it was a
Christian grief retreat, and weasked God to show us, close our
(17:28):
eyes and take us back to ourmost painful moment, where were
you?
And showed me a bunch of things,and then all of a sudden I
experienced Luke's death as him.
Like I was in his head.
I felt his the first thing Ifelt was the most peace I've
ever felt my entire life.
Like unexplainable, heavenlypeace.
And I heard these thoughts, I'mokay to leave my family, which
(17:48):
was his biggest fear, and I feelno pain.
And when I looked up as Luke inthe corner, there was Jesus just
hovering right there over thiswhole scene.
And when I heard the song, I canonly imagine I, as Luke,
followed Jesus towards thelight, and that was my my
vision.
And I feel like that totally wasGod, and then he gave that to
(18:10):
me, not only for me, but toshare to others who wonder what
was it like for my loved one?
What were they feeling?
Well, they were probably feelinga lot of peace.
Like it's like this unexplained.
I mean, I've never had thatfeeling.
I'll probably never have itagain until heaven of this
unexplainable peace that Lukewas feeling.
And um, just such a gift thatGod gave me that that vision.
(18:32):
I met a girl at a grief retreatand she told me I was sharing my
story.
She raised her hand, she'scrying, she's like, My husband
was looking in the right cornertoo.
Like he was probably seeingJesus too.
I'm like, Yep, he probably was.
Um, but to go back to what lifewas like, like after he died, we
left the house because um thehospice nurses said, You don't
want your kids to see thecoroner coming.
(18:52):
It's not a pretty picture, soyou don't want him to be there.
So I rushed them out.
Um, I also have some regret ofnot staying with his body very
long, but I just needed to getthem out because someone had
already called the coroner.
And so went to my brother'shouse, came back hours later,
and I'll never forget theemptiness that the house felt.
Because every person actuallydoes have physical energy in
(19:13):
them, and when it's gone, it's adifferent, it feels different.
And you know, going into ourroom and seeing his prosthetic
leg just laying uh on the bed,and then like the ice was
melted, the heating power, likeeverything was there where we
left it, his glasses where heleft it, his cup, like
everything.
I didn't let anybody touchanything for a really long time,
and just that feeling ofemptiness.
(19:35):
And how am I gonna do this?
Like, how do I take care ofmyself and how do I take care of
my kids?
At that time, they were exactly12, 14, and 15.
And it was like, how am I gonnado this?
Like, my identity changed in aninstant.
I went from being married tosingle, and that changed a lot
of things, which we can get intoidentity stuff in a minute.
(19:56):
Um, but I was like, I don'tthink I can do this.
I don't think I can.
Thankfully, I had wonderfulfamily.
My best friend drove like sevenhours to get there, you know,
church family, lots of peoplesurrounding us, but I still felt
alone because this was adifferent kind of death.
My friends didn't know what thiswas like to lose a spouse.
At the end of the day, they weregoing home to their spouse.
(20:18):
My family had spouse.
It was just a different kind ofloss.
And learning how to single, Imean, solo parent, which is much
different than single parent,was very hard.
Like where you're making all thedecisions.
And my oldest did not react wellto his dad's death.
He started acting out.
He was 15.
You know, he would try to likerun away.
(20:39):
He would try to yell at us.
I mean, it was a horrible time,and I had to have like help with
him, you know.
Um, he's now 21, and he talksabout it that he just didn't
know what to do with his griefat that time.
And it was this dark place.
Like I tell people, it's like adark, dark cave.
Like you don't think you're evergonna get out.
And how I got out was slowly,very slowly, one moment at a
(21:03):
time.
It's not even a day at a time.
Like in the beginning, it's kindof a blur because you have so
much to do.
You've got to be, you have todeal with like burial plans and
you know, all of these things.
And this is COVID, so it wasreally hard.
Um, you know, people aren'tsupposed to be coming over, but
I at that moment that went outthe window.
I was like, I don't care, I needto see people.
Um, before we were reallycareful because he was high risk
(21:25):
and I didn't want anyone withCOVID, you know, to get him, you
know, for him to have COVID.
Um, oh, I always forget to tellthis.
So why his leg was hurting, thedoctor said he probably had a
blood clot, like why he died sosuddenly.
But it was actually a reallygood thing because he was so
scared of going down that pathof losing.
He didn't want us to have tochange him and feed him and all
the things.
He was so scared of this bigstrong man, didn't want us to do
(21:47):
that.
So I I'm thankful, even thoughwe lost like maybe a month with
him, but we didn't have to seethat.
My kids didn't have to see himdeclining like that.
They got to spend their his lastday with him, with him walking
around, talking and all that.
Um, but anyways, you know, afterhe died, it was a lot of who am
I now?
What am I gonna do?
So everything's busy in thebeginning.
(22:08):
Um his I think his service, hisfirst service was like two weeks
after he died.
The we did a burial, um, and itwas a horrible day.
It was awful.
And because of COVID, we couldonly have 10 people there, even
though it was outdoors.
So my own brothers had to be intheir cars watching it on live
stream, and just a really hardtime to plan things like that.
Um, and everything shut down.
(22:29):
There's no in-person counseling,there's no there's nothing,
which was really difficult.
When you need people, you can'tbe around people.
Um, so, anyways, after that, um,I really just dove into healing
like it was my job, and that'swhat I teach people.
When you're in grief, healing isyour job.
That's all you need to focus on.
But again, I'm carrying my griefand my kids' grief.
(22:50):
I'm grieving my husband, they'regrieving their dad, and I'm
grieving for them.
And so um I just felt like, youknow, turning on worship music,
crying on the floor.
I felt the peace that passes allunderstanding cover me.
Um, and that's really, Ibelieve, how I got through those
first couple months is a lot ofprayer.
I would often imagine I wascrawling on Jesus' lap and just
(23:12):
crying while he held me.
And he always met me there.
There, I mean, it was anindescribable peace.
And God says that he's close tothe brokenhearted and crushed in
spirit.
And I was like, that's me.
And I felt it.
I really felt it during thattime and a different closeness.
And how I explain grief is inthe beginning, it feels like
every day is like a big stormyclo storm, like clouds and rain.
(23:35):
And one day you see a little bitof light, a little sunshine,
something makes you smile, andyou're like, oh wow, there's
life after this.
And then slowly you start seeingmore sunshine until eventually,
where I am five and a half yearslater, it's mostly sunny, but
I'll have those days.
I had one a couple days ago.
Um, it was the 23-yearanniversary of when Luke and I
got engaged, and I had a day ofnot a whole day, just a little a
(23:58):
little bit of time in themorning of crying and feeling
it, but that's okay.
It's always gonna be with us, itjust doesn't hurt as bad as in
the beginning.
So I was going through thesestorm periods, but it was
starting to get better.
Um, I went to a grief retreat,which was a huge part of my
healing.
It was COVID, but somehow afriend of mine had found one
that was kind of like it wasvery outdoors that they were
(24:20):
doing it, which actually endedup being the place we did Luke's
celebration of life.
So it was all tied into thisplan that God had.
And I like sharing this parttoo.
A lot of amazing things happenedat that retreat.
Um, one of them is I was feelingum kind of what you were saying
about doubting God and like whydid this happen?
And um, am I being punished?
(24:40):
My husband died.
Is this a punishment?
I went into the retreat withthat thought.
Well, God revealed to me throughthe another vision he gave me.
Um, it was like this beautifultime when we're in worship, and
there was I was brought back toLuke's deathbed, and then I saw
Jesus placing a crown on myhead, and he said, Out of all
the people in the world, I choseyou to be Luke's wife, to walk
(25:03):
into death, and I'm so proud ofyou.
And in that moment, everythingchanged, reframed my whole thing
about Luke's death.
Like, no, this is a privilege.
And I like to teach that topeople, not just widows, that
whoever you have loved in yourlife that you've lost, like you
were chosen to be in their life.
And that's a beautiful insteadof like, why did my best friend
die?
Why did my mom die?
(25:24):
Why did I was chosen?
And so I'm hoping that helpslisteners because I know we've
all lost somebody.
Like, no, I was chosen, and Ireally focus on that when I work
with widows, and it helps somuch to just reframe that.
So I started getting healingjust a little bit at a time, and
um, you know, about three orfour months after, I was
(25:44):
starting to feel pretty good.
But I had looked for widowsgroups in churches, there were
none.
Um, I had made a few widowfriends.
I have one of my best friendsstill, she had reached out to me
on social media.
She had been widowed twice by40.
Um, and so she was able to helpme see that like I got through
this, you're gonna get throughit.
And so as I started to heal, Iwas like, I want to help other
(26:06):
people.
You know, there's no widowsgroup, there's no anything.
So I started to create what Iwish there would have been for
me.
So actually, the first, Ibelieve the first thing I did
was um create a TikTok channel,which was nothing I'd ever done.
And in the beginning, becausethat was like uh 21 when I
created it, um, I thought it wasjust a bunch of people dancing.
(26:26):
That's when it was pretty new.
But I found out there's actuallya lot of people wanting to learn
about a lot of things and thatthere's a gigantic widow
community.
And so I just started teachinglike I was like widow goal
number one, get out of bed, andjust started talking about
things that had helped me andfound a huge following and
connected with so many widows.
And then the next thing, um, Iwas on Facebook, is actually
(26:48):
where I found a ton of people Iconnected with because I didn't
really have anybody in my lifebesides the new widows I had
met.
Um I had one widow from a longtime ago, and the new widow I
was telling you about, and weall became friends and did a lot
of things together.
Um, but I didn't have a lot ofpeople.
Like I had Girls Night with myfriends, and they would talk
about their husbands, and justwas like, I need people who who
get this.
(27:09):
So on Facebook, I found acommunity called Young and
Widowed with Children, and um weuh I became friends with a lot
of people.
I met a widower and we becamereally good friends, and we
decided to start a podcast.
This was 11 months after Lukedied, because we were in this
group and we were like, thesepeople need Jesus, like we need
(27:29):
to show them like how we'regetting through this.
And so in 21, we started WidowedToo Soon.
It's now been going four years,and um, he was a widower with
young children, I'm a widow withteenagers, so we were able to
just talk through all thesubjects.
And as far as I know, it's stillthe only Christian widow
podcast.
Um, so we started doing that,and then I was like, I really
wish there were like groups forwidows, and so I started a
(27:53):
nonprofit called Widow Goals,and the motto is widows helping
widows not only survive butthrive.
And so it's all run by widows,the board's widows, like people
who've been through it, showingthe new widows you're gonna get
through this, because that's allI wanted to know in the
beginning.
And so I started a group in mylocal area, and we still meet
the third Monday of every month.
Um, fourth and uh Thanksgiving.
(28:14):
We had 20 widows here, we hadwidows in their 30s and widows
in their 80s and everywhere inbetween.
And it's such a beautiful time.
We just get this, like we getthis life, and we have a lot of
fun.
Um, and then other people saidto me, Well, I want a group, how
do I do it?
So I just started trainingpeople.
I made videos and was like, thisis how you do it.
And now we're in over 30 citiesacross the country and Canada.
And um so that nonprofit alsodoes retreats.
(28:38):
Um, we're planning our thirdretreat for January.
We have 70 widows that areregistered, it's in Dallas, and
um, that's a time of worship andpouring over these people, and
all of the speakers are widowsand the worship team.
In fact, my daughter's coming tosing on the worship team, which
I'm super excited about, andshe's launching a ministry for
the kids of widows because shesaid she's seen what I've done
(28:59):
and she wants to help peoplelike she wish she would have had
help.
She's 19 now.
And um, so I just started doingall these things.
I was an elementary teacherbefore Luke died.
Um, I actually went back for atiny bit after he died, and that
was confirmation.
No, this is not for me.
Like, um, I want to teachadults, I want to teach widows,
I want to pour into them.
I became a grief recoveryspecialist and started working
(29:20):
with people and helping themthrough their grief, and um just
really started pouring intopeople, and I watched God take
my morning and literally turninginto dancing.
That was part of um something Idid.
I started going line dancingwith my widow friends and just
learning like how to live lifeagain.
I remember kind of going to theidentity piece, like, okay, it
(29:44):
was really upsetting the firsttime I had a form to fill out,
and it was like widow.
And I was like, oh, I guess I'ma widow, which I had thought
widows were like 90 years oldwith a white button with cats
crawling on them.
That's literally not what Ithought a widow was.
And so my identity, who am I?
I'm not a wife anymore.
And then it became about like,who does God say I am?
Who am I in Christ?
(30:04):
Because really we can strip awayall the other titles.
Who are we inside?
And so I started working onthat.
And then I also was like, mylife is kind of like a blank
book, I could do anything Iwanted.
And though I would have neverchosen this, I was kind of
excited.
I was like, what do I want todo?
I get to redefine my life, andso you know, I started
paddleboarding and became apaddleboarder.
I started um financing, uh, youknow, I just started doing all
(30:27):
of these things to figure outwhat is something that brings me
life, what do I like?
I started pouring into people onmy podcast, and you know, the
best way to heal is to pour inother people, and so that really
helped with my healing, and Ialso decided I wanted to write a
book.
So actually, like backing it upto my first, I guess this was
(30:48):
the very first thing I did aboutsix months after Luke died.
I entered a contest withProverbs 31 women, and they were
having a contest for people toenter this thing called a book
proposal boot camp.
So there were over 800 entry uhentries, and I was one of the
top 110 or something.
And so they liked my book idea,and so I got to be coached on
how to make this book proposal,and in that time I wrote three
(31:09):
chapters of Widow Goals Steps toFinding Peace When You Lose Your
Spouse.
And there were I didn't win thecontest, and I just kind of put
it down and I know it wastotally God because I didn't
know what I was talking about 11months into my journey or six
months into my journey, and soum I put that on the shelf until
January of 25.
I was like, okay, it's gonna bethe five-year anniversary of
Luke's death.
(31:30):
I want to get this done in honorof him.
And so I really wrote it in fourmonths, wrote the the other 27
chapters, and decided like I'mgoing to do this.
And basically, what widow goalsis, it's steps you can take in
any order, like get out of bed,um, reenter social situations,
solo parenting, how to dateagain, like just all these
things that I learned over theyears, and they're all based in
(31:52):
scripture.
And um there's questions at theend and action steps, and I just
put everything into it that Iwanted.
And I read a lot of widow booksbecause I'm a podcast host,
people send them to me, butthey're usually like their story
with like 10% of tools of how tohelp people.
I switched it.
I'm like, no, it's gonna be 10%my story, 90% tools.
Like, I want like everyone wantsto know when they read a book,
(32:13):
like how's it gonna help me?
And so I wanted it to do that.
And then um, I had such a greatresponse that I went on to
create a workbook um with likeplaces to have prayer journals
and deeper questions, and thenpeople started using the book in
the workbook in groups, and so Icreated a leader's guide, and
now I'm my aim and mission is toget it into churches um and to
(32:35):
get people like doing thisbecause um being a widow in
church is one of the loneliestplaces.
Um, there's things made forfamilies, um, young couples,
couples like divorce care, youknow, all these things that are
great, but there's usually ifthere is, there's grief share,
which is great, but it's notspecifically widows.
Um, widows are mentioned 103times in the Bible, yet so few
(32:58):
churches actually um supportthem.
So I just every podcast I'm on,I just challenge people.
All you have to do is ask yourpastor or someone in leadership,
how do we support widows andmake sure your church has
something because most don'tlike I couldn't find anything,
and so that's why I started mynonprofit.
And so my big passion issupporting widows, especially
(33:19):
those first few months.
It's so beautiful in mynonprofit group.
When we hear of a new widow, weall sign a card for her, and
then I mail it to her, um, putmy phone number.
And this is this just happenedthis past uh few months ago.
We did that, and this widowreached out to me and said, That
card meant the world to me.
I'm coming next time, and nowshe's part of the group, and
some of us went to her husband'scelebration of life to support
(33:40):
her, and it's just like thissisterhood that comes together
and supports each other, and soit's been like the greatest um
calling of my life, you know.
And people ask me, which Ididn't even get into this part
of the story, why are you stillhere?
You're married again, which Igot married again two and a half
years ago to my amazing husbandJoel, who supports all of this,
you know.
And I say, because I've beenwidowed and I know what it feels
(34:03):
like, and I still want to helpthose people.
I don't have to be here, but Iwant to.
It's God's calling on my life.
I may be here forever, God maycall me somewhere else.
Um, I don't know.
But I just feel like if I had togo through it, I'm gonna use
this.
God doesn't waste any pain.
I'm gonna use this to help otherpeople, and so that's why I
created my podcast, TheNonprofit, The Retreat, all the
(34:25):
things that I do, the book, inorder to help people.
And now I'm going on otherpeople's podcasts and spreading
the word about really, it's justum education about widows and
grief.
Um, and there's so manymisconceptions about grief, and
I talk about what to say andwhat not to say, and you know,
all of those things.
And so I just want to be anadvocate for those who are
(34:48):
brokenhearted.
You know, I have widow friendswho not only lost their spouse,
but also their child at the sametime in car accidents.
I mean, it's just so manyheartbreaks, suicides.
I mean, it's just heartbreakingwhen you really dive in.
People don't know this is awhole world that exists that are
younger people.
Like most of my friends are like40s or younger that are widowed.
(35:09):
And um, it's just um, yeah, it'sa different world.
So, anyways, that's I guess in anutshell, I mean, that's a lot,
but that's my story with Lukeand how God redirected my life
as a widow.
Um, a couple days ago, my17-year-old, who's my youngest,
asked me, if you knew on yourwedding date to daddy that he
(35:30):
was gonna die, would you stilldo it?
And I said, Yes, a millionpercent yes, because your dad
made I made me who I am today.
You and your siblings would notbe here.
And God had a mission and acalling for me, and I wouldn't
be here without your dad.
You know, our first retreat, wewe were having a worship time,
and I felt like God brought meback to Luke's deathbed again,
(35:53):
and then looked at all the womenin the room who were crying, and
and and God was like, if Lukehadn't died, this moment
wouldn't be happening.
And it was like, whoa, just thisweird moment.
I would have never chose it.
I don't want it for my kids.
Um, but it was God's plan.
And so I believe that everythingthat happens in in life, God's
hand touches, he either allowsit or he he creates it, right?
(36:17):
So we know he doesn't um hedoesn't create sickness and
death, he doesn't caught causeis the word I'm looking for.
He doesn't cause sickness anddeath, but he allows it.
And so when Luke was sick, Iheard a sermon and the pastor
said, if God allowed it, I canaccept it.
And that's kind of been my mottoever since then.
Like, I trust God.
He allowed this, I can acceptit, you know, and so that's
(36:38):
really how I live my life.
Like, this is God's plan.
Never would have chosen it.
Um, but there's been so muchgood in it.
I've seen so much good with thewidows that I've met around the
world.
You know, as a podcaster, youget emails from people around
the world and you're like, okay,this is working.
Because sometimes when you'resitting by yourself with a
microphone, you're like, is thisreally doing any good?
And then you hear from peopleand you're like, okay, I have a
(37:01):
sticker on my computer that saysgo into all the world and preach
the good news.
And we get to do that aspodcasters.
We get to share our faith aroundthe world while sitting at our
home.
How amazing is that?
Like, I think it's the best timeperiod to be alive to be able to
do what we do.
So that's pretty much my story.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
That's your story.
Yeah.
Um, so much to unpack, but I'mgonna do my best here.
SPEAKER_04 (37:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (37:26):
Um, you first of all, I commend you immensely for
getting at that and being therefor those kids and staying
rooted in your faith becauselots of people turn away.
(37:48):
Especially when they go throughthis amount of break.
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
And I as a daughter, I can relate to your daughter
when you mentioned your daughterand you know, having to say
goodbye.
It brought me back to that phonecall that my mother made to me
the very first time she thoughtmy father was gonna pass away.
SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
And and daddy passed away last June.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Lots of similarities in just like watching it through
her eyes and watching it throughyour eyes so that I could
understand my mother best,right?
Because my mother saw thedecline, and yet he had our last
Christmas.
I have pictures of that lastChristmas, and I took pictures
of the most precious moments,moments that are fleeting for
(38:47):
most people because they're sobusy with life, and that it they
just they don't stop and pause.
SPEAKER_03 (38:54):
What makes you stop and pause is the grief, the
grief forces you to look atthose moments as the most
precious moments.
Like I have a picture of my momand my dad sitting on my dad's
recliner watching TV, and my dadjust like scratching her back.
SPEAKER_02 (39:15):
Just such a tender moment of her just sitting with
him, or a picture of my dadsitting in a wheelchair because
he couldn't walk anymore.
He had a brain tumor, and it washe was terminal, and my daughter
had a hard time that evening forwhatever reason it was Christmas
(39:36):
Eve, and he looks concerned andlooked at her and said, Um,
what's wrong, Cachatona?
Cachetona is Spanish for cheeky,for big cheeky and she walked up
to him, and there was a specialmoment between them, and I had
my phone and I just captured itand I turned to that picture
(39:58):
sometimes.
SPEAKER_04 (39:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
But going to your journey, I'm really curious how
must have been traps that youfell into that I know people
fall into when they're in thosedark spaces.
How did you stay rooted in youridentity in Christ and not turn
(40:21):
away from him?
SPEAKER_05 (40:23):
That's a great question.
SPEAKER_06 (40:25):
Um you know I've never doubted my relationship
with Jesus or like my faith asfar as like believing like what
is true.
Um I don't know.
I have just always accepted it.
Like this is this is what it is.
But yes, there were definitelydark times.
There were times when I wastrying to figure out who am I
(40:47):
now.
Um there was um a lot of justlike being lost.
I think that's the best wordsthat I tell people when you're
widowed, you just feel so lost.
When you lose a spouse,literally everything in your
life changes.
What you shop for to eat, likewhat you watch on TV, like
literally everything changes.
And so there was a lot of like,I would say that I can look back
(41:09):
at time periods when I was lost,like, you know, going out late
at night with friends and mykids waiting up for me, like
things like that.
That I'm like, who, what was Idoing, you know, at that point?
Like I was really lost.
Um, and I can look back and I'mnot proud of all my moments.
And, you know, I had some dateswith other people before Joel
(41:30):
that I'm not proud of.
And like, you know, there was atime when I was just like, yeah,
I would get periods of timewhere I'm like kind of angry and
just mostly just trying tofigure out who I am when I'm not
married to Luke, like that partof my life.
Like, how do I act as a singlewoman in my 40s?
Like, I don't even know how todo this.
But I believe, like, no matterwhat I did, you know, even if I
(41:52):
made mistakes, which I did makemistakes along the way, um, I
never lost like my faith inJesus.
Like, I would do things wrong,but I knew they were wrong.
But I never like I neverdoubted.
Somebody asked me that on apodcast yesterday about like,
have you ever doubted?
I'm like, I actually haven't.
Like, I've always just believedand believed that God has a
plan, but I know that it doeshappen.
(42:14):
My oldest son, um, he's doesn'tknow what he believes right now.
He's 21 and he's like, ifthere's a God, why didn't he
heal my dad?
And he's kind of in that place.
And I I have to let him gothrough his own questions and
he's all of that.
And um, you know, my other twokids reacted differently, like
they grew closer to God, buteverybody is different.
And so um, yeah, but Idefinitely had had those hard
(42:38):
times and those times, but Ijust I don't know, he always
comforted me when I got in thosedeep dark pits.
Um, I was always able to cry outto him and be covered with
peace.
And then having community ishuge.
You don't want to be byyourself, you know.
So finding other people like toreach out to.
Like I actually had a wholegroup text um that I would text
(42:59):
anytime.
Like it started when Luke wassick, like just friends and
family.
I could just text.
And I did it after he died too.
Like, hey, I need prayer rightnow, or I need this, or I need,
you know, and so I would always,and that's actually a chapter in
my book called Call on YourTribe, and it's about finding
your people and don't be afraidto ask for help because we need
it.
That's the only way you can getthrough it with God and people.
If you're in that deep grief,you need someone to pull you
(43:21):
out, you need someone to tellyou it's gonna get better.
You need someone to um sit withyou in the mud, like come to the
ugly.
We don't need people to say tous, and I'm sure you've
experienced this with the lossof your dad.
People say the wrong thing.
I'll tell the thick audience twothings not to say and two things
to say.
Don't ever say, I know how youfeel, and fill it in with
(43:42):
anything.
Even if you have a similar loss,you don't know.
Like we're all different.
Um, the one that widows hate themost is when people say, I know
how you feel, I'm divorced.
And I do understand that's a biggrief because my husband Joel
has been divorced.
I know it's a it's a big grief,but it is not the same,
especially if you have kids,they have both parents.
Um, but anything that startswith I know how you feel, just
(44:03):
don't say it.
Instead say, I don't know howyou feel, but I'm here to
listen.
And then just be quiet.
Just sit with us.
That's what we want.
Another thing not to say is atleast.
Anything that starts with atleast, at least you had this
many years.
At least he's not in pain.
At least you're young, you'llget married again.
But diminishes the griever'spain, you know.
(44:23):
So we don't want to say that.
We just want to be there forthem.
Also, don't say, um, let me knowif you ever need anything.
I have been guilty of sayingthat before I knew that wasn't a
good thing to say.
So grievers don't know what theyneed, they're just lost.
And it's like we can't makedecisions, so we need someone to
step up and say, This is whatI'm going to do for you.
I had friends who said, We'regonna come over and clean your
(44:45):
house.
We are bringing you a meal, weare taking the kids, we are
having a girls' night andbringing over some soup.
I remember they did that likefour days after he died.
Like, you just need friends andfamily to step up.
And I I love educating peoplebecause I didn't know this
before Luke died.
I didn't know what to say andnot to say, and I also
personally feel like it's worseto not say anything because it's
(45:07):
like not acknowledging what wewent through.
And so Agrava would rather yousay something.
I I mean I even prefer the wrongthing over nothing.
And I heard once that we shouldlisten to their hearts, not
their words.
So I try to do that, likethey're speaking up and they're
trying, and I commend that, andI am I love that they're saying
(45:27):
something.
Um, but yeah, we just needpeople to be with us and to sit
there with us.
SPEAKER_02 (45:32):
I I had a question that came up because I have a
very good friend who lost herhusband in 2021.
And I wanted like to understandwhat working through it look
like for you versus um avoidingit through doing multiple
(45:54):
projects and dating and is thatworking through it or is that
no, working through it issitting in your pain, like
feeling it.
SPEAKER_06 (46:03):
The literally the only way to get through grief is
to feel it.
You have to feel it.
Um, there's a a quote I say allthe time, what we feel God can
heal.
Like we have to feel it.
So you see the grievers whoeither they just stop it down or
they do keep busy.
That's a grief myth that youshould keep busy.
It's actually one of the worstthings you can do.
And that's why a griever can bein the same place five years
(46:26):
because they didn't do the work.
So, for example, if I went to mycar, had a flat tire, and I
said, I'm gonna come back in ayear, I think it's gonna be
better.
But I did nothing, I didn't putthe air in it, it would still be
flat.
And so the people that arealways keeping busy and maybe
they're distracting themselvesjust with dating a lot, all of
that, they're not actuallyworking through it, and it's
going to hit them at some point,and it's it's not gonna be
(46:47):
pretty.
My counselor actually said too,my youngest when he was 12, you
need to get your grief outbecause it's like constipation,
and if you don't, you're gonnaexplode.
And it was like a really greatillustration for a 12-year-old
boy to think of like why I needto talk about this.
It's so much that even I learnedthis through the grief recovery
method, which is what I'mcertified in, that we have to
(47:07):
let people grieve, like, noteven, you know, um, we like to
comfort people, like rub theirback all the time, all this
stuff.
No, we need to let them feel it.
So, for example, my daughter acouple years ago was having a
trigger and really crying abouther dad, and I just let her cry
and I explained it to her.
I want you to feel this becauseif I like try to rub your back
and stop you from crying, you'reactually like I'm stopping your
grief, and I want you to getthrough it.
(47:29):
Now, of course, when they'redone, you can hug them, but let
people feel it.
Don't try to change the subject.
Don't try like we need peopleliterally to come sit with us
and let us cry.
We don't need someone to fix us,we don't want someone to fix us,
we just want someone to listen.
And then I can tell you anotherthing that would mean a lot to
your friend, because so manypeople forget about this.
(47:50):
There are really hard days whenyou're widowed.
The hardest, in my opinion, twothe two hardest your death, you
the death anniversary, so likethe day that they died, and your
would-be wedding anniversary.
Like I'm married again, but Istill grieve on my would-be
anniversary with Luke.
And so, what we need is peopleto call us or text us on that
day and say they rememberedbecause nobody does.
(48:12):
The very first year, my bestfriend who was there, she forgot
the date of his you know deathanniversary.
And so I told her that reallyhurt me, and she put it in her
calendar, never forgets again.
And um, also I have anotherfriend who never forgets.
Well, it happens to be herbirthday, so she never forgets
my wedding anniversary.
I never forget her birthday.
Um, and she reaches out everyyear, and I actually created a
(48:33):
space for widows that they'vegiven me their dates, and I have
an email that goes to them thatI pray over them on those days
because it's so hard because somany people don't do that.
So I advise for you and forlisteners, get the date, like
figure out what if you don'tremember, ask somebody like get
the date, put it in yourcalendar and say think even a
little text thinking of youtoday.
(48:53):
That means so much.
Like my own family, like doesn'talways remember my brothers,
anybody like so it means so muchthat somebody acknowledges it,
and especially also if you canfind her wedding anniversary,
because that's another onebecause people don't know
remember it because it's nottheir day, it's not like
Christmas, it's not all the bigholidays.
Like, yeah.
So um, if you're listening, ifyou know someone that's lost,
(49:15):
someone doesn't have to be aspouse, they've lost someone
they love, get those dates andplease reach out to them because
one of the things is you justfeel so alone.
I felt so alone until I built awhole widow community and found
other people who are goingthrough the same thing.
The funny thing is that I amthat friend that texts her.
SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
Oh, yeah, that anniversary.
And that's awesome.
She married, they married a weekbefore my second husband and I
married.
There's a lot of similaritiesbetween us.
SPEAKER_05 (49:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
I just have never had a my spouse die, which I
don't, you know, so I can'trelate.
But um, and I remember exactlywhen he died and what I was
doing that day.
Because I texted her to see ifthey needed anything.
They were all sick with COVID athome, and she said, I need
prayers because Robert passedaway this morning.
(50:10):
And I just I it stopped megetting my drugs because I was
walking near her her her uhneighborhood.
But I knew she was a veryprivate person and I didn't want
to interfere, and I was waitingfor her to kind of reach out,
but like you said, you you'relost during those days, you're
(50:30):
in a flurry of activity becausethere's so much going on.
Yes.
Um, but when it dies down iswhen they really need us.
And and one of the things I'veI've done periodically, and I've
stopped doing it recentlybecause I I don't want to
overstep my bounds, is I knowshe was struggling a lot with
her faith.
She was very angry with God,rightly so.
(50:52):
I mean, there's people thatdon't have that faith, that
don't rely, they may havereligion, but they don't have
faith, and there's a very bigdistinction, I think, there.
Um, and I know she wasstruggling and she was sharing
it with me.
So there were times indevotionals that I would be
sitting having my coffee chatswith God in the morning, and I
(51:15):
would send some devotionals ifher face would show up in my
awareness, and that's the waythat the Holy Spirit kind of
communicates with me.
I get visions like you, yeah,and of certain people and
certain events, and I would bereading and I would be brought
back to a conversation fromyears before, and I would share
(51:36):
that with her and say, you know,there's something in this
devotional that's meant for you.
I don't know what it is becauseI'm forgotten I don't see your
heart.
I don't know what's going onright now, but I just feel that
you need to receive this.
And so sometimes I'll hear backfrom her, sometimes I won't.
So I'm wondering if, like, inthe times I don't hear back, if
I've overset my boundaries, orshe just got busy or something,
(52:00):
you know.
Um, because we do want to bethere for the people that have
been through this loss, and wedon't want to share our
experiences because they don'treally matter.
They what matters is for us tosit and be present with people,
and I've learned that in thelast two weeks.
You remember at the beginning ofthe podcast that I shared with
(52:22):
you that I fell from grace,yeah, but that long pause, I'm
actually grateful for it as hardas it was to go through it,
because it forced me to see theway I was showing up for people
and not showing up for peopleand what I could do to correct
it, you know.
And I thought a lot of theseinstances with my friends and
(52:48):
with other friends going throughother losses, like the
separation with the spouse andhow that was impacting their
kids.
And so I don't I want to be abetter friend and a better um
soul sister to them because I Icare about them and I love them
and I don't want them to feellike they're alone in this
(53:10):
because we're not alone.
God is always with us.
That that peace that you talkabout, I felt that peace on the
day my father died.
Yeah, because I had I hadsurrendered that grief to him
daily, yes, from the moment Iheard your dad's terminal
because I knew it was mygreatest fear.
(53:31):
I was like, I don't know if thisthing's gonna take me down or
not.
And I would go into my war room,my prayer closet, yeah, and just
I was sobbing every day.
It was awful because I knew itwas coming, and I was terrified
of that.
And the interesting thing wasthat day that he died was the
(53:53):
most beautiful day.
It was a Sunday, it's myfavorite day of the week because
I get to go to church.
Yes, I had to be more and morewith God, right?
And it didn't allow me, it itSunday didn't become an ugly day
for me, interestingly enough.
Um I mean because God carried methat day.
And I was there with my dad'sbody when it was being zipped
(54:18):
up.
SPEAKER_03 (54:19):
And my son My son was there with him too.
As young as he was, he was thereand he was hanging my dad's head
as he was like you in a way.
(55:02):
Somehow you find a stranger likethat to make sense.
He needed to be fine.
He's hard as a daddy for yourkids.
(55:31):
They didn't have time.
They were so young.
But they had you and they hadGod with them as well.
Because he was ill with them.
He helped them like babies inhis arms and thank you for
sharing the vision that God gaveyou because I dad.
(55:57):
I wonder what that moment waslike for Thank you for sharing
that.
It gave me even more peace.
So it's important for all of usthat are listening to share our
stories because you don't knowthe answer you'll receive to a
(56:24):
prayer or a thought that hasbeen annoying at you for years.
And uh Michelle, I I want toleave you uh the space to say
anything you want to say to sayto sign us off on the show.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
Anything you want to share with people, and I also
want to know how to be in touchwith you so that the writers
listening on the show can reachout to you and see if there's
anything, any groups in theirarea that they can belong to.
SPEAKER_05 (56:57):
Yeah, well thank you.
SPEAKER_06 (56:58):
Um grief is is definitely difficult, um, no
matter who you lose.
And so I'm sorry for your lossas well and for your kids,
because it's a very difficultjourney.
I feel like where I am in myjourney now, I grieve mostly for
my kids.
Um, you know, I'm remarried,that doesn't mean I don't still
grieve, Luke, but I have someonein that role.
(57:21):
I do have a husband to come hometo all of that.
They'll never have a dad, youknow, again, and so I grieve
like when I've had um two ofthem graduate um high school,
about to have a third, you know,without him um taking the oldest
two to college, like just allthe all three of them getting
their driver's license, likethese moments, I just feel it.
And and Haley, my daughter toldme the other day, she's like, I
(57:43):
get sad all the time, all themoments daddy's gonna miss.
I was like, I know, I'm sorry.
Um, but anyways, just wanted toshare that part.
I it's so hard.
But I would say um I would loveto connect with anybody, widowed
or not, that wants to talk aboutgrief.
Um, the best place to findpretty much everything we talked
about is widowgoals.org.
(58:04):
It has um all the cities that Ihave groups in, it has the
retreat information, um, mypodcast, which is called Widowed
Too Soon.
You can just look that upanywhere, but I do have a link
for that.
Um, my books, all of it arethere.
And you can also email me,Michelle at widowgoals.org.
And then also if you're onFacebook and you're widowed,
please join our widow community,also called Widowed Too Soon
(58:28):
with the number two.
It's called Widow Too Sooncommunity.
And there's over 13,000 peopleand they are supporting each
other.
It's a beautiful community.
Um, so we'd love to have youpart of that.
We do still have a few spots forthe retreat.
So um, if you're interested, um,please uh you know send me a
message or look at theinformation and get registered
as soon as possible.
(58:48):
We'd love to have you there.
It's such a time of healing, andI just want to encourage
everyone listening, whatevergrief you're going through to
know a couple things, it's notalways gonna hurt as bad as it
does today.
Um, if you're in that beginningplace and to feel it, don't
stuff the pain.
What we feel God can heal andlet yourself feel the pain no
matter where you're at.
It doesn't matter what anybodythinks, your healing is more
(59:10):
important than what anybodythinks.
So just let yourself feel it.
SPEAKER_02 (59:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much, Michelle,for joining us.
Um at least that would be apurpose.
And for the listeners, rememberMatthew 5.14 to be the light, be
the light.
It's hard to be a light whenyou've been in a dark place, but
still be a light because when weserve others, we are uh serving
ourselves as well.
(59:34):
You know, service is love madevisible, and that's something
that sits on my desk.
As a reminder, it's an anonymousquote, nobody knows who wrote
that, but it's something thathas kept me going on those dark
days.
Um, when I want to throw a pityparty for myself or um feel
victim to anything, that onlykeeps us in that dark space
(59:56):
longer, but when we when we stepand Just get out of bed, like
Michelle said, or we go and weserve somebody else.
It lifts our spirit in a waythat God knows it will, and
that's why He's He's promptingus to step out and do those
things.
And so whatever your heart andyour soul is is pulling you to
(01:00:17):
do, do that.
Listen to that voice, because itis the Holy Spirit and He loves
you and He's with you every stepof the way.
You are not alone in thisjourney.
And please reach out to Michellebecause she knows she's been
there, she understands more thanany of us that have never been
(01:00:37):
in that situation before.
So uh please share this episodeif it touched your heart and if
you feel moved to do that.
And so I love y'all.
Thank you, Michelle.
Love you too.
Thank you for your story ofgrief and and transformation and
pain to purpose.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
And uh love y'all.
Stay blessed.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:03):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance on the grandprize drawing to win a
twenty-five thousand dollarprivate VIP day with Sylvia
(01:01:24):
Worsham herself.
Be sure to head on over torelease out reveal
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.