January 1, 2026 • 52 mins
What happens when a handful of idealists turn a quiet idea about human potential into a global movement—and then have to live with the power that follows?
We sit down with Marcia Martin, whose new memoir, Sex, Power, and Transformation, peels back the curtain on the early days of EST (later Landmark), the boom in personal development, and the private reckoning behind public influence.
She’s candid about the thrill of growth, the seduction of authority, and the moments that forced her back to center. We dig into the difference between timeless teachings and the systems that deliver them, and why great leaders refuse to hand out answers and instead create space for people to find their own.
This conversation is also a toolkit. Marcia breaks down how the mind learns, why meditation is a skill, not a mood, and how to celebrate being a beginner. She shares searing losses, hard pivots, and a faith-infused commitment to alignment over applause.
If you’re a coach, creator, or curious skeptic, you’ll leave with grounded strategies to quiet the mind, spot culty dynamics, and choose contribution over ego.
To connect, work or book Marcia, head to her webpage: www.marciamartintransform.com
Stream now, share with a friend who loves personal growth, and tell us: what practice brings you back to center? If the episode moves you, subscribe, rate, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham's bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God's Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Hey librarians, it's Sylvia Warsham.
Welcome to Release Out RevealPurpose.
And today's Marsha Martin.
And boy, does she have a storyto tell?
And I can't wait for her to digin.
But before that, I've got to sayshe sent me her manuscript on
sex, power, and transformation,her new book.
And the self-help empire told bythe woman who helped build it.
(00:56):
And she was behind it all.
She was a woman that in her 20slanded in San Francisco around
the time that the self-helpindustry was just beginning to
take shape.
And she was behind the scenesworking that empire that's now
(01:17):
what$48 billion worth.
And I'm part of that empirebecause I'm a life coach.
So all life coaches, allself-help authors, anybody that
works in this industry, this isthe woman that started it all.
So without further ado, Marsha,thank you so much for joining us
on Release Out Review Curvus.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Thank you, Sylvia.
Oh my goodness, I'm so honoredto be here.
And I have to say, I didn'tbuild it all by myself.
I helped build it.
But there was just a handful ofus.
So I can say I was one of thefew people and certainly one of
the few women that was there inthe very beginning of the human
potential movement and helped itcome into existence.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Well, the way that whoever wrote your um foreword,
I think there was anotherMarcia.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Marcia Seleckson, the great author and journalist.
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
I loved her foreword.
I thought it was so authenticand genuine in the way she spoke
about you.
And I felt like I knew you.
(03:12):
I don't want to start and stopreading, you know.
It's so well written.
And I just I want to dig intothis.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
So please, please share with us your amazing story
of transformation.
It is an amazing story.
And when I read it, I'm evenamazed by it.
Um, as you'll see in the book,Sex, Power and Transformation is
the title.
It's available on Amazon.
It's already become abestseller.
And it's my memoir and thestory, not only of me as a young
(03:44):
girl becoming a woman, butbecoming a woman in a man's
world and being a powerful womandealing with men with power and
the lessons I learned from that,while at the same time just
happened to be on the frontlines of creating and building
the human potential movement andthe whole self-help industry.
(04:07):
So it's pretty remarkable forsure.
And I've been told by so manypeople who are in the midst of
reading it or who have read itthat it's a page turner.
It's like reading a thriller ora history or a memoir all
together in one, and it'sfascinating.
And I'm very proud to say Ididn't use AI.
(04:28):
I haven't learned how to use AIyet, have to tell you.
And I didn't have a ghostwriter.
This story came from my heart,and people tell me it's like
living it themselves.
You feel like you're there, youfeel the pain, you feel the joy,
you're in the middle of thequestioning and the success and
the betrayals, and you're justinside of it.
(04:50):
So I'm very proud of the book.
And my story is I started, asmany of us do, um, with a father
was he was abusive, notphysically, but emotionally and
mentally.
And he was abusive to my mother.
And I grew up, I was verytalented, always quick, top a
student, uh, could run fasterthan the boys, could jump
(05:12):
higher, could uh was a betterartist, was a best actress, was
this best, best, best.
But inside of me, I was alwaystrying to prove myself.
I think because I wanted myfather to love me.
And he was an alcoholic, and hewas a very injured, lost man.
And I tell the story a littlebit of his background in the
(05:34):
book, how he and my mother met,and what that was like.
I was pretty much the parentrather than having them be the
parents, it seemed like.
And I became a mother when I wasso young because I had to take
care of my siblings when theywere just babies, because my
parents worked and they usuallywork the graveyard shifts.
So it was kind of being agrown-up as a child.
(05:58):
But one of the things I rememberwhen I was little is I watched
my mother and father fight, andI thought to myself, and I'm
sure this is the universe seeingme, using me, knowing what my
destiny would be and how I couldmake an impact in the world.
I remember thinking that peopleneeded to learn how to love.
And that somehow that was goingto be my mission.
(06:20):
I was going to teach peopleabout love.
And so, as a young girl in myearly 20s, I found myself in San
Francisco, as many of the babyboomers did, at that early 1970s
time when it was just thebeginning of the hippies.
We were love children, we wantedpeace.
(06:41):
It was the middle of the VietnamWar, and we wanted the war to
stop.
We thought love should handleeverything.
San Francisco was very beautifulthen.
It wasn't drug-ridden, it wasreally um looking at exploring
our human potential and who wecould be, and we were all
together and we lived incommunes and we were peaceful.
(07:03):
And I remember sitting in theGolden Gate Park with my floppy
cowboy hat on the grass, youknow, getting spare change as I
played my guitar.
And if somebody went by that Ithought looked like they needed
the change more than me, I wouldactually give them my change.
So I was that kind of a hippiebaby boomer.
And it was the era of when humanpotential just started.
(07:28):
Jose Silva, Alexander Everettwith Mind Dynamics, um, a lot of
the very small, very firstEsselon had just been created by
Michael Murphy, and we were justbeginning to realize that we
could be bigger than we knew,that we had more potential, that
we could develop ourselves.
And I happened to meet WernerEarhart, who was the founder of
(07:52):
Est, which became Landmark,which is now the largest
personal development company inthe world with over three and a
half million graduates.
But when I met him, he was justuh starting to train a course
called Mind Dynamics before weeven created Est.
And there was 30 of us in thatclass.
(08:12):
And at the end of that class, Ihad a vision.
And I took the class becauseprevious to meeting order and
finding out about mind dynamicsbefore Est was created, I
interned with my aunt, who was aclairvoyant healer and an
esoteric astrologist.
And she taught me about personalpower and she taught me how to
(08:34):
meditate, and she taught meabout metaphysics, and she
taught me about energy, and shetaught me how to heal, and she
taught me how to get in touchwith the powerful bigger self
within me that had the wisdom.
And so when I first met Wernerand I took the first training
from him with the 30 people,that was called mind dynamics at
(08:56):
that time.
What I thought was this wasgoing to be the vehicle to bring
what I had learned from my auntabout who I was and who people
could discover who they were tothe masses.
I wasn't even taking thattraining to help myself so much,
as I was as I wanted to takethis training and help it grow
(09:18):
to become more available to morepeople.
Little did I know that we wereabout ready to start a cultural
revolution and a culturalphenomenon, and that not only
would we grow, we went fromthose 31st students in that
first seminar.
I became the vice president andin charge of marketing and
(09:38):
filling events and producingevents, which was a whole story
in itself about learning how tofill auditoriums with five and
six and eight thousand people.
Um what happened was by the timeI left, there was almost 800,000
graduates.
So that arc from the early 1971to when I really separated from
(10:01):
Est at the very end of 1979,which is less than almost 10
years, was remarkable.
But then I, you know, because ofmy fame, and I did have fame at
that time, um, being kind of theface of Est and introducing
Werner at the special guestseminars and at the events and
(10:23):
filling the events and producingthe events and training the
staff to enroll, creating someof the programs that now are the
introductory seminar leadersprogram training programs.
It was it was I learned also thedeficit of power, the warning
(10:44):
signs of when people get takenand kind of get power is
addictive.
And um I learned this not justin Est before I became landmark,
but also um as I work with JohnHanley in Lifespring, as I work
with Tony Robbins, I ran hisbusiness for two years and
(11:05):
helped take him national.
I helped Jack Canfield createand I co-created the
Transformational LeadershipCouncil with him.
So I've been in the realm ofself-development my whole life.
And what I've noticed iseveryone, whether they're the
leader or the participant, weneed to be very careful that we
stay tuned into our innerwisdom.
(11:27):
Because pretty soon when westart getting all of the
benefits from being tuned intoour inner wisdom, we start
getting the gifts of that andthe rewards, and we start having
success and even fame and wealthand power.
Sometimes, if we're not careful,we can lose our path because
(11:50):
people are really willing forsomeone else to tell them what
the answer is.
And so it because people are sowilling to allow somebody else
to say what our answer is, wedon't want to find our own
answer, we're afraid or we'renot sure how or we haven't been
taught, then the leaders who arethe gurus or the trainers or the
(12:15):
teachers have to be really extraresponsible, to be clear that
what their job is, is to be asafe container, to be with
someone in such a way that thatperson can find their own answer
rather than giving an answer tothem.
And that's what happenssometimes, and then it becomes a
(12:35):
cult and people becomerighteous.
And so I've learned so muchthrough all of those lessons
myself of the times when I wasafraid to say something because
so many other people agreed thatit should be a different way,
and we all probably knew that itwas wrong what we were doing,
(12:58):
but because everybody was doingit, nobody wanted to stand up
and be the one person that saidthis is wrong.
And so how you go along with andyou find justifications to make
yourself right about things,even if you're against your own
values or doing things that youcan see are harmful.
And I also learned thedifference between the
(13:19):
organization that produces thecourses and the courses or the
methodology themselves.
So wisdom has been around forthousands of years.
There are great masters andteachers that have given us
wisdom, you know, that go backso many, many, many years.
(13:40):
Um, so the wisdom is there, andthen people create systems of
how to deliver that wisdom.
And sometimes the organizationsand the systems and the
containers of delivering wisdombegin to be the control
mechanisms that say they'reteaching you a methodology to
(14:02):
have you freed up from being incontrol.
So here you are teaching freedomand being something that puts
people in bondage sometimes.
So there's so much to learn.
And you know, I I've had theexperiences of losing a lot of
(14:22):
money, of making a lot of money,of being very famous, of being
isolated and left alone, ofhaving my heart broken, of total
success, of betrayal.
I've been through it all.
And what I've come to realize inmy own transformation and my own
lessons is that within, if I'mvery still, I will find the
(14:47):
connection that connects me withthe rest of the universe and the
wisdom and the power of thevoice from whatever anybody
wants to call that bigger power,whether it's God or universe or
divine, there is somethingbigger than each of us that
connects all of us toeverything, not just each other,
but the rivers and the animalsand the sky and the stars.
(15:11):
And that if we're diligent andresponsible enough to keep
listening to that quiet voicewithin ourselves, and sometimes
our mind is so loud it's hard tohear that quiet voice.
So we have to learn to still ourmind and to find that voice and
to be connected to that higherpower.
(15:33):
And if you can do that, thenthere's real flow in the
universe, and things make sense,and things are um are um opened
up and delivered to you in sucha way that it makes it without
effort, and so that's where I'vebecome in my life now.
So this book is really anencapsulation of all of that,
(15:56):
and and I think it's a greatstory, it's really fun and funny
and and sad at times.
I had a friend tell me, Ilaughed so hard, I thought I was
gonna fall off my chair.
And then he said, and then Istarted crying.
I mean, my heart was just brokenin parts.
And then he said, and I got soangry, I just smashed my fist
down on the table.
(16:16):
And then he ended up by saying,and you know what, Marsha, that
book still lives with me becauseit really made me reflect and
think.
So I thought to myself, boy, youcan't get much more than that in
a book.
So hallelujah, Lord.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
And I love, I love rejoic as you're talking about
something that I know fromexperience myself, that when you
sat and reflected on it, youfelt all those emotions surface
again and sat with them becauseyou and I both know that we need
to acknowledge those feelingsand respect them and honor them.
(16:52):
That way we release them to ourhigher source of power because
only he can come in and takethat and say, Okay, now you're
ready to move into your light,and this is what you're gonna do
next.
And that's that inner voice thatwe both hear.
You learned it from your aunt onhow to quiet your mind.
(17:14):
Can you give us a couple of tipsof that?
Because in today's fallen world,people are so I mean, it's noisy
out there, Marsha, as you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah, I do know.
Well, I learned from the verybeginning, I kind of did life
backwards.
I learned how to deal with lifebefore I had any of the real
traumas.
And so when the traumashappened, I already knew how to
be at peace, or knew that it wasa gift, or considered that it
was something that was probablyteaching me something.
(17:44):
So even though it felt the sameway as all pain does, I had a
perspective on it that allowedme to keep going.
And I think that's the power ofthe of the human spirit, also.
But I think that one of thethings that I've always known is
you learn in two different ways.
Uh, one, you learn through yourmind by understanding something.
(18:07):
So someone can teach yousomething and explain it and you
will understand it.
But you also have a body, andthe mind and the body are
connected, even though they'renot the same.
They are connected, so theyinfluence each other.
When you have a thought, youwill notice that your body, if
it's a sad thought, your bodywill droop.
Um, and if you're feeling pain,you start thinking thoughts
(18:31):
about being anxious orsomething.
So they influence each other andtrigger each other, the mind and
the body, but they're separate.
And how the mind learns isthrough understanding.
How the body learns is throughpractice.
The body has to do something toembody it to be able to learn
it.
(18:52):
And this is very interestingbecause if you notice any skill
set you've ever tried to learnthat you needed your body to
know, like playing the piano oreven riding a bicycle.
You know, the first time yourode the bicycle, probably
somebody told you about balanceand explained it to you about
how you're supposed to be whenyou ride a bicycle.
(19:13):
And even if you had a book andyou read the whole book about
how to ride a bicycle, when youget on that bicycle, it doesn't
matter all that you understandbecause your body doesn't get it
because it's not in your bodyyet.
And you have to start learningas a beginner.
And here's another kind ofbreakdown with human beings is
human beings are thrown, which Imean they automatically go in
(19:36):
the direction of being right,looking good, and knowing the
answer.
You know, you didn't get up thismorning and say, Today I want to
look like a jerk.
I want to have totally nothingwork.
I want to be wrong abouteverything.
I want to look stupid and notknow anything.
You know, like, oh, what a greatday ahead of me, right?
(19:57):
You get up and you go, Today'sthe day I'm gonna get a Done,
I'm looking good, I'm feelinggood, I know the answer, you
know.
And when we go out in life, ifthat's not actually true, we all
pretend.
You know, we're like totallysaying to ourselves, I don't
know what to do in thissituation, but we're putting on
this pretenses of I know whatI'm doing, and I got it all
(20:18):
together.
Nobody knows what they're doing,right?
So here you are as a beginner,which is the only way you can
learn or the body can learn, youhave to practice as a beginner,
you have to start, and whatwould you look like as a
beginner?
You'd look stupid and you'd bewrong, and you wouldn't know
how.
Three things that you're thrownto not want to do as a human
(20:41):
being.
So mostly people pretend ratherthan starting off as a beginner.
And when you start as a beginnerto learn how to still your mind,
see what happens is if yourmind's racing, and I think it
was Deepak Chopra that saidthis, I'm not sure, but he said
the mind is like a great ocean.
(21:02):
And when the ocean is tumultuousand raging and in you know total
uh uh upheaval, you could throwthe Empire State Building and
not see the ripples that it madebecause it's so full of all of
the tumultuousness.
But on a clear night, sometimesI've been in Hawaii on a
(21:25):
sailboat and the sea is sosmooth and just like glass.
In that kind of an ocean, youcan throw a P and see the
ripples.
So when you think of it likethat, if you're gonna create,
everything starts from a thoughtor an intention.
It's like putting something intothe ocean.
(21:46):
You're going to create it andmanifest, create some ripples,
have it be gain some momentum.
Well, if your mind is all crazylike that tumultuous ocean, it
doesn't matter how hard you holda thought, it's gonna get lost
in all of the noise.
So, in order to create anything,you have to have a still mind to
(22:09):
be able to hold a thought or anintention to be able to create
anything in reality.
So it's a skill everybody needs.
And if you don't know how to dothat and you haven't done it,
and you're like 20 or 30 or 40or even 60, you got a lot of
habits that you you you know youhave to get through and let go
(22:30):
of to even learn the skill inthe first place.
You have to practice.
So when people sit down tomeditate, and meditation is a
wonderful skill set to learn tobe in touch with that quiet
wisdom within yourself.
You get to go inside.
So it's an important thing to beable to be still.
(22:51):
But to be still, you have totrain your mind first, and that
takes practice.
And most people sit down andthey take two seconds and they
say, Oh, I can't meditate.
Well, of course you can'tmeditate.
You're a beginner, it's not likeyou got on the bicycle and you
could ride it the first time,right?
So you have to have somepatience and know that you
(23:12):
practice and you do that acouple of minutes every day
until you get a little bitcalmer, until you get a little
more still.
And then at some point, howeverlong it takes for you to be the
piano player that you'resupposed to be, when you started
off with chopsticks, just likemeditation, you start off with,
I can't meditate.
(23:33):
Um, it takes as long as it doesfor you to be able to still your
mind, then you can create, andthen you can connect inward to
the higher power of yourself andreceive all the wisdom for your
own answer that you need foryour life to be the perfect
expression of itself that ismeant to be.
And you have the stillness to beable to take those, that wisdom
(23:57):
and hold the thought and theintention to be able to create
it into a reality and haveresults in the real world.
So it's an important skill andit takes practice.
And I would say, most of all,what a person needs is a little
patience and to know that ifthey start by not being able to
see colors and not be able to bequiet, that that's a win.
(24:17):
Whatever they did in the firstthing is a win.
That's they did being a beginnerreally well.
They should pat themselves onthe back and say, I was such a
good beginner, I messed ittotally up.
So congratulations.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
I love it.
I love how you remind us that asanything in life, even as little
kids, how we learned beforepeople told us that we couldn't
do things.
We we were fearless, right?
We we got up and kept walking,we would fall and get back up
and do it again and then we fallagain, and here we go, we don't
(24:52):
stop again, and you commit alittle because it's not gonna
feel good, right?
To think about it initially, butthen you just get better and
better.
And that's uh thank you for thatreminder.
So no, it the image that I gotas you were talking.
I'm a visual person.
(25:12):
The movie Eat Prey in Love whenJulia Roberts is like sitting on
the floor trying to investigate,she's looking at the clock,
going, How do I how am I gonnado this?
you know, and that's who we are.
We're just we want it now.
And that's the problem with oursociety today is that instant
gratification.
If you don't have it now, I Iwant to quit.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
Do you find that to be true?
Or absolutely, and that's why Isay the biggest thing to remind
people is you need some patienceand to be willing to forgive
yourself and to know that thebeginner space is an art.
It takes some skill to be abeginner.
You have to be willing to bewrong, you have to be willing
(25:56):
not to know the answer, you haveto be willing to look stupid or
clumsy, you have to be willingto be a beginner in order to be
an expert.
Because the only way from to getto expert is from beginner,
otherwise, all you are is apretender.
And most people aren't willingto be beginners, pretend they
(26:17):
know what they're doing and havethe results of pretense rather
than the results of realauthenticity.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
That takes like you said, patience and willingness,
patience, not in our timing,obviously, but in in the
universe or in God's timing,because it is perfect.
That that God's master plan isso perfect, and when we reflect
(26:46):
later, maybe not in the timethat we're moving through our
journey.
In those times, I think iskeeping that that sense of
presence is a good idea, not toget pulled into our past, which
can happen easily.
Our patterns are always in thebackground.
They're wanting to be, you know,they emerge from time to time,
and and it's up to us toacknowledge, oh, okay, there
(27:08):
they are.
Thank you.
Yes, no, but I don't need youright now, but thank you.
Thank you for sharing up.
I appreciate you.
An identity that insists on I Ihad my seven-year-old little
anxious identity that thatfollows my husband around when
we fight.
And she wants to make thingsright.
Because I would like you, yeah.
(27:30):
I had that relationship with mydad.
My dad was a super highachiever, um, perfectionist, but
he came from a highly abusivehome.
And in my own book, I alsodetail how abusive it was so
that people could understandthat that unhealed part of us
projects in ways that you don'tintend.
(27:52):
You know, they do the best jobthat they are consciously aware
of of doing, right?
And and when they don't do theself-help and they don't, you
know, devote time to to theirpersonal growth, they're not
gonna realize that they'remaking a mistake until until
it's already out there.
(28:12):
And then your little mind hasalready picked up on it.
So we know the subconscious minddoesn't have a filter, it's
always listening.
So it's really important for usto understand that that aspect.
And like you, I wanted so muchfor my dad's approval that I
achieved to the form ofexhaustion.
(28:34):
And then came the medicaldiagnosis of like facing six
doctors in a hospital roomfacing an 80% chance of dying,
and got and the medical doctorsnot confident at all.
And I was at the Texas, likelike Houston Medical Center,
(28:55):
facing facing what I was facing.
And I remember just surrenderingto God because I knew that
science had was limited, andlimited was God for me.
Because I'm a woman of faith,and and that that testimony is
is so strong, it's my freechapter on my website.
Because I want people to gain,to really understand that love
(29:18):
that I felt, that understandingand that security that no one
else outside of me can give me.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
You brought up so many things.
So, first of all, childhood is avery interesting thing because
think about it, children don'tunderstand the concept of
ownership until they're aroundtwo or three, which is why it's
so hard to get them to share.
Because they don't get that it'snot theirs.
If you take a two-year-old or athree-year-old into a candy
store, they will just reach forthe candy.
(29:50):
They don't understand, theydon't it's not theirs yet,
right?
If they don't understandownership, then everything is
mine, is what they how theylook, that's their perspective.
So it also transpires toeverything is my fault.
So when a child looks out intothe universe, like your children
(30:12):
who are following you, if theysee you arguing with your mate,
they think it's their fault.
And we take on these things aschildren that oh, I did that.
So it's a it's a very kind ofopening piece of being a human
being.
Then the other thing is we havea mind that has a structure
(30:34):
that's a support system.
Kind of like you have a libraryyou can go to and check out a
book and get information onanything.
Your mind keeps its own libraryof traumatic incidents that
happened between the time youwere three and eight.
And in that little recollectionof whatever happened, if you
(30:54):
went unconscious or you were infront of fear or you were
threatened or you were intrauma, the mind thinks this
isn't a good enough incident tohold on to, to learn from, and
it holds on to everything thathappened, how you felt, what you
did, how you acted, etc., like aholographic picture.
And then if the mind seesanything in the future that
(31:18):
looks like that old incident,then the mind has a trigger that
says, oh, this is just likethat.
So let's pull this out, let'scheck this book out of the
library and read it about how toact, right?
And it puts you on automaticjust immediately, that's a
(31:39):
trigger for you to react in acertain way, and you act just
like you did then.
And and what's really sad aboutthis is the mind needs some kind
of uh system to know if this newevent is like the old event.
And the sorting system is if itlooks like it, sounds like it,
(32:00):
feels like it, acts like it, oranything accordingly, everyone
says it is it, it's the same.
So you could get um knocked downby a dog when you're three,
which had hairy brown hair and awet tongue, and then when you're
18, be in the backseat of themovie house with your the
(32:24):
football star that you've beenwanting to kiss you forever, and
it comes nearer and nearer, andthe the black fur collar of his
leather jacket, you know, goesup against your chin, and his
tongue, you feel the wetness,and all of a sudden you start
screaming and saying, Stop,stop, stop, and you're
antagonistic, just like you werewhen the dog pushed you down.
(32:49):
You know, you got scared and youcried and you yelled and you
screamed and you fought.
And because the mind says, Hey,it's the same thing, we better
pull out that same old behaviorand see if it works this time
because we survived last time.
So let's try it out.
So it's a lot of stuff you haveto be aware of to be able to
say, Oh, my wow, I'm noticingI'm triggered, I'm on automatic
(33:13):
before I act.
Get back in present time, youknow.
And I always teach my studentsand the people that I coach and
the people that I train incorporations, like I say, the
axiom is center first, then act.
Center first, then act.
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
Well, and you think you dance, like yeah, yeah, you
have to come back to center.
And you're and you're just like,oh yeah, getting this.
It looks weird.
Right, center, left, center, andthen it's like come back.
What is your center?
Yeah, for for some, it's theawareness, it's the presence.
(33:51):
For me, it's God, like center,center, come back, come back.
I've been gone like these lasttwo weeks.
I received some news that kindof spun my world.
And my light dimmed.
And but you know, and I caughtmyself, and there were two days
I quit talking to God.
(34:11):
I was so mad at him.
And and people don't realizethat I speak of him so well and
I love him so well.
But uh he knows when I get angryat him, and and he he gets it,
he has a really good sense ofhumor with me.
And and then he sends memessengers like you and the
previous interview, you know, oflike as a reminder, remember
(34:35):
this.
Come back to center.
This is where you start off.
You get crazy, your mind getscrazy, come back to center.
What is it?
Whatever it is for you as ahuman being, and it's different
for everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
But being present and in this moment and now, not
in the future, not in the past,but being here, however, you get
yourself there is everyone's ownexpression for sure.
And and I would say, you know,you have such a beautiful faith,
and for me, faith isconsciousness as well as faith,
because consciousness expands,and as your faith grows, as it
(35:14):
expands, you have a betterunderstanding of what this is
all about, what you're meant tobe here to do, etc.
And how I explain it to myselfis there's kind of like four
major stages of consciousness,and the first is where we
operate as if the world isacting on us, we're at the
(35:35):
effect, and that's a victimmentality.
So I look to see thecircumstances before I decide
what I'm committed to, and mycommitment depends on the
circumstances, so the world isacting on me, and that's a
certain kind of consciousnesswhere it's being done to me, I'm
(35:57):
not at cause, I'm notresponsible, I can't do anything
about it, I'm a victim.
And that kind of consciousness,the way it grows is it takes you
to a place where it throws youdown and spits you out.
In other words, you have abreakdown.
People usually, if they're avictimized, victimized,
victimized, get to the placewhere it gets so horrible that
(36:19):
something inside of them says,wait, I'm here, I have
willpower.
And you call upon that space andyou kind of pop into the next
level of consciousness where yousee that you can act on the
world.
It's not that you're a victim,you can cause things, but in
that next level ofconsciousness, you're causing
(36:40):
things for you.
It's a very kind ofself-centered causal
relationship with the worldwhere I'm gonna get me a house,
I'm gonna get me some cars, I'mgonna get me a wife or a
husband, I'm gonna get me adegree, I'm gonna get me, and
you start accumulating thingsand producing things and making
things and results that are allabout you, you, you, you.
(37:02):
And then at some point thatconsciousness expands or kicks
into the next level when youstart to say to yourself, is
that all there is?
Because none of those thingsreally provide joy or
fulfillment.
You can never get enough of whatyou really don't want.
(37:22):
Doesn't matter how many housesyou have, it doesn't fulfill you
in such that a sense ofcontribution does.
And so you c you clamor to havea higher purpose, and the
beginning of faith comes in interms of you say there's
something bigger than myself,there's a bigger purpose here,
there's a bigger order, there'sa bigger power, and you start
(37:42):
operating from that.
Now, here is where I think youand I come in, because we have
come to a place where that hashappened.
We have found that there issomething bigger that we should
be about.
I'm not about the money, I'm notabout the fame, I'm about the
contribution.
I want to make people's livesbetter and this a better world,
and I'm committed to that.
(38:02):
But you pop into a differentstate of consciousness because
the universe or God, your faith,Him, however you pronounce the
beautiful world that's the wordthat says who it is that is
making all of this happen in thefirst place.
Um when the universe noticesyou're about contribution and
(38:26):
you're about giving and you'reabout making this a better
world, when you've done thatenough and your life is about
that higher purpose, theuniverse kicks you into another
consciousness, which is it usesyou.
And that's a very interestingspace because if you don't
listen then, and the universewill give you a few warnings,
(38:49):
you know, a couple of nods here,and a couple of you know, remind
you and poke you on, you know.
And if you don't listen aboutafter the third time, it just
takes you down and slams youinto a place where it will take
you out of that path and put youin the path it wants you,
whether you whether you thinkyou know, it's just you're being
(39:09):
used.
And I think that's where you arenow.
I know that's where I am.
I know that if I don't stay trueto the thing that I'm supposed
to contribute and be about, soit's dangerous for me, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
Like spiritual warfare, my love.
And it comes at you really hard.
Um, and it's when you arealready in mission, you're
already in purpose, yeah, andit's coming to distract you from
that and pull you back into thedepths of despair.
Yeah, it doesn't realize is thatin that darkness is where the
(39:45):
light is the brightest.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Okay.
And how we can constantly beingpulled back out.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
I had an experience in my marriage, and I share it
in my book, but I hadstepchildren and one of them
committed suicide.
Now that was heartbreaking.
He was only sixteen.
He was just my favorite youngman and he loved me and I felt
very special because it's hardfor a child to have a stepmother
(40:13):
and a mother.
And you have your own loyalties.
And he was just full out lovedme.
And um but what I realized is Iknew that that marriage wasn't
going in the direction itshould.
I wasn't being the person I wassupposed to be.
I was putting up with thingsthat really weren't aligned with
(40:34):
where I thought was what mypower, my destiny, my ability
was.
And as much as I tried to makeit work, it wasn't going to work
because it wasn't the path Ishould have been on in the first
place.
Now that's a pretty big hit.
But the minute that happened, Irealized this is the kind of
(40:54):
thing that happens that's notsupposed to happen in my life.
In other words, this is not theflow for me.
And when that happened, I justsaid to my husband, and we're
still great friends, I said,it's this is over.
This is not where either of usshould be.
We need to get divorced, we needto make our lives work the way
(41:16):
that it should, because therewas something off.
And I think the universe doesthat in its own way.
It takes you down if you and andwe're so stubborn as human
beings, aren't we?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
We just like I told you at the beginning before we
even started recording, it tooka mech truck for me to just get
snapped back into all right,child.
I I've been whispering to you,you don't listen.
Okay, I love you, but here comesa little bit of pain.
(41:53):
The divine one, you know, I'mlike, here you go.
And and he periodically willshow up that that way.
And then he'll also show up in agentle and loving way because,
like you, I wanted my dad couldbe harsh.
He was a perfectionist, and Iloved him dearly.
He passed away last year.
But and that was the whole,thank you.
(42:15):
That was the whole purpose ofwhy he prompted me to write the
first edition of my book, was soI could heal that relationship
with my dad.
And I we could be friends thelast four years of his life.
And then the second edition wasmore about the the real journey
of out of the cage of fear intothe joy and presence of joy, and
(42:37):
then the ultimate, which is thelevel I'm in now, of trusting,
trusting in God's sovereignty,like totally releasing control
and all these illusions the mindcreates, the perfectionism, the
control, the elements that havestood in my path, that have
stood blocking my light.
(43:01):
And so right now, God, the greatsurgeon, is using his scapel and
just slicing away my pride,which was a big that I mean it's
it's been the biggest detrimentin my relationships, not just
with myself, but with my husbandand my my children and my past.
(43:24):
And right now it's like I wastelling somebody this morning I
feel like a piece of laundry,and he's like ringing it out
like a towel, like and I'm like,Can you just be a little bit
more gentle?
Can you just please?
And and he's like, You asked mefor this.
Remember that you asked me, youwanted to be more like me.
(43:44):
Great.
I love you for that.
It's gonna require some of this.
I'm sorry, but here it goes.
And when I read part of like thebeginning part of your book, and
you said step out of thoseashes, you know, fire is a
refinement, like there's metalsthat get refined in fire.
And I always find fire is such abig symbol in the old testament.
(44:09):
This is how God showed up withfire, and he uses fire to refine
us and to just okay, you'regonna face trials and
tribulations, you're gonna haveperseverance, and out of that
perseverance, which is somethingthat defined you, Marsha.
I I know that as I was reading,I was like, Yes, this woman and
(44:29):
I we might as well be sisters,yes, because uh because we both
have gone through similarjourneys, I'm not saying the
same, we both have encounteredpowerful men, yes, and we've
both been so eager to pleasethose powerful men in our life
because of our relationship withour fathers.
(44:50):
Yes, very good, and we and weboth adored our fathers.
I adored Mike, yeah, but man, hewas he could be harsh.
He, you know, there was theconstant like you should have
been a lawyer and you shouldhave been a doctor.
And I was like, and up untilthen, I like he died.
Like when he passed away, he haddementia, and sometimes I
(45:13):
couldn't remember who I was.
And and there were times that Icould see the flickers, and and
when he died, I had severalpeople walk up to me that said,
You don't know how proud yourdad was of you.
And I was like, Well, I neededto hear that because I didn't
hear it in person from him.
Yeah, what I heard was you couldhave and should have.
(45:38):
That's a tough pill to swallow.
Um, and that's why we bothlanded in these spaces where we
were just so willing to give upour worth.
Yes, our worth to make other menlook better.
Yeah.
I just why women do that?
I don't know.
I don't know.
It's like why do we do that?
SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
Yeah, it's it's a tough lesson to learn.
I was also thinking of an imagethat I hold while you were
speaking when I think of theuniverse, of God, of the great
divine, is kind of like anocean.
And the ocean crashes into therocks and a spray goes up, and
(46:21):
it's an individual droplets ofthe spray, which are individual
expressions of the ocean itself,but they're still part of the
ocean and connected, and I thinkthat's how I consider myself as
a human being.
I'm an individual expression ofthe consciousness and the
divine, where everything isconnected, and my little
(46:44):
expression is Marsha, and I havemy lessons, and I have this
color hair and this color ofpersonality fault or whatever,
and your expression is Sylvia,and you do your thing.
But when we remember, we'restill connected, and when we
come from that alignment, and Ithink alignment trumps
everything, it's when we arethinking our individual
(47:05):
expression is a separation,which it's not, it's still part
of the whole, it's just anindividual expression.
When I was in the rainforest, uhuh living with the Ashwar for a
period of time, I learned somany lessons.
And the chieftain said, Youpeople from the north, and he
meant all of us in civilization.
(47:26):
He says, You you handle yourselflike you're the fingers on a
hand, all so individual and soimportant by itself.
He says, What you fail torealize is you're part of a hand
that's a community, a tribe, asystem, a country, uh, you know,
there's a team, there's afamily.
And he says, worse than that,you don't notice that it's
(47:48):
connected to a whole ecosystemwhere you are one with the
waterfalls and the animals andthe rocks and the stars, and you
are connected.
So I think that knowing that Ican be separate in terms of an
individual expression, but thatit's an expression of the same.
So we're all one.
(48:08):
And as long as I go within andconnect to that body of water or
light or consciousness or love,that then if I'm aligned, it'll
all work out okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
Yeah, yeah, you feel the disalignment, you know when
it's small.
I felt it yesterday, and Godcame back to me and said, You
know how you talked to yourhusband the other night?
Don't do that, don't do that.
That's not you are contributingto that corrosion.
Yeah, this is your part in that.
(48:44):
So I need you to stop pointingthe finger at him and to start
looking inward and start fixingyou.
I was like, thank you for that.
You're so kind.
Thank you for being gentle andnot being like my dad is like
what you know, coming downhill.
Like, come on, I know you'reresponsible and I know you can
do this.
And oh my goodness, much that wecould go on and on.
(49:07):
I know we can.
We get to the end of thisinterview.
Do change your book once againbecause we do want to see the
cover.
SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
And it's a bestseller, and it's a
cliffhanger, and it's athriller, and it's a page
turner.
SPEAKER_02 (49:27):
And yes, you must must read it.
I'm not, I'm can't wait to toget in line to go pick up my
daughter so I can go in thephone.
I just read past chapter threebecause I'm there and I'm just
I'm you left me hanging, and sonow I've got to get back to it.
But any last words ofempowerment for the listeners
(49:50):
have released out?
SPEAKER_01 (49:51):
I would say welcome the experience, and that
everybody's job is what, and theuniverse's job is how.
And if you put out the what andsay, this is what I'm intending,
this is what I want, this iswhat is important, the universe
will figure out exactly the wayto give it to you.
And sometimes it doesn't give itto you in the way you would
(50:14):
expect or that you want, butwhatever way it's giving it to
you, you must know it's theright way because it's what's
happening.
So, whatever the experience,welcome the experience.
SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
Oh, I love that so much! Oh my goodness.
Thank you, Marsha.
Really thank you for for beingon my show, for for sharing your
wisdom, sharing your story.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
It's so powerful.
Oh, and I want to just say onemore thing.
If people want to go to marshamartin transform.com and it's M
A R C I A,M-A-R-T-I-N-Transform.com, they
can sign up for my Marsha MartinClub, which is a digital library
of workshops and seminars thatI've given over the years and
(50:58):
podcasts and and speakingengagements, where uh I think if
you take a little chunk of thewisdom at a time and at your
leisure, it sometimes reallypenetrates even more profoundly.
There's a free month gift.
You can be part of the club forfree for a whole month.
So Marcia MartinTransform.com.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
Thank you for that.
Oh my goodness.
Yes, I had forgotten to mentionthat.
I was like, oh, I saw a code Iremember on the manuscript.
So I'll definitely look into it.
And for the listeners who havereleased that reveal purpose,
remember Matthew 5.14 to be thelight.
Look, look at the bright lightthat Marcia has been in the
world.
You take notice if she can do itcoming from where she came from,
(51:40):
you can do it too.
That nothing is stopping you,only your mind is stopping you,
and you have ways around that.
If you hear the interview andyou let those words seep into
you, you'll find your way.
And you let God do figure outthe how.
You don't have to figure out thehow.
That's his job.
Have a wonderful week.
Love you.
(52:00):
They say bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (52:04):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance to grandprize drawing back to win a
$25,000 private VIP day withSylvia Worsham herself.
(52:27):
Be sure to head on over torelease outreve
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_02 (00:29):
Hey librarians, it's Sylvia Warsham.
Welcome to Release Out RevealPurpose.
And today's Marsha Martin.
And boy, does she have a storyto tell?
And I can't wait for her to digin.
But before that, I've got to sayshe sent me her manuscript on
sex, power, and transformation,her new book.
And the self-help empire told bythe woman who helped build it.
(00:56):
And she was behind it all.
She was a woman that in her 20slanded in San Francisco around
the time that the self-helpindustry was just beginning to
take shape.
And she was behind the scenesworking that empire that's now
(01:17):
what$48 billion worth.
And I'm part of that empirebecause I'm a life coach.
So all life coaches, allself-help authors, anybody that
works in this industry, this isthe woman that started it all.
So without further ado, Marsha,thank you so much for joining us
on Release Out Review Curvus.
SPEAKER_01 (01:38):
Thank you, Sylvia.
Oh my goodness, I'm so honoredto be here.
And I have to say, I didn'tbuild it all by myself.
I helped build it.
But there was just a handful ofus.
So I can say I was one of thefew people and certainly one of
the few women that was there inthe very beginning of the human
potential movement and helped itcome into existence.
SPEAKER_02 (02:00):
Well, the way that whoever wrote your um foreword,
I think there was anotherMarcia.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
Marcia Seleckson, the great author and journalist.
SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
I loved her foreword.
I thought it was so authenticand genuine in the way she spoke
about you.
And I felt like I knew you.
(03:12):
I don't want to start and stopreading, you know.
It's so well written.
And I just I want to dig intothis.
SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
So please, please share with us your amazing story
of transformation.
It is an amazing story.
And when I read it, I'm evenamazed by it.
Um, as you'll see in the book,Sex, Power and Transformation is
the title.
It's available on Amazon.
It's already become abestseller.
And it's my memoir and thestory, not only of me as a young
(03:44):
girl becoming a woman, butbecoming a woman in a man's
world and being a powerful womandealing with men with power and
the lessons I learned from that,while at the same time just
happened to be on the frontlines of creating and building
the human potential movement andthe whole self-help industry.
(04:07):
So it's pretty remarkable forsure.
And I've been told by so manypeople who are in the midst of
reading it or who have read itthat it's a page turner.
It's like reading a thriller ora history or a memoir all
together in one, and it'sfascinating.
And I'm very proud to say Ididn't use AI.
(04:28):
I haven't learned how to use AIyet, have to tell you.
And I didn't have a ghostwriter.
This story came from my heart,and people tell me it's like
living it themselves.
You feel like you're there, youfeel the pain, you feel the joy,
you're in the middle of thequestioning and the success and
the betrayals, and you're justinside of it.
(04:50):
So I'm very proud of the book.
And my story is I started, asmany of us do, um, with a father
was he was abusive, notphysically, but emotionally and
mentally.
And he was abusive to my mother.
And I grew up, I was verytalented, always quick, top a
student, uh, could run fasterthan the boys, could jump
(05:12):
higher, could uh was a betterartist, was a best actress, was
this best, best, best.
But inside of me, I was alwaystrying to prove myself.
I think because I wanted myfather to love me.
And he was an alcoholic, and hewas a very injured, lost man.
And I tell the story a littlebit of his background in the
(05:34):
book, how he and my mother met,and what that was like.
I was pretty much the parentrather than having them be the
parents, it seemed like.
And I became a mother when I wasso young because I had to take
care of my siblings when theywere just babies, because my
parents worked and they usuallywork the graveyard shifts.
So it was kind of being agrown-up as a child.
(05:58):
But one of the things I rememberwhen I was little is I watched
my mother and father fight, andI thought to myself, and I'm
sure this is the universe seeingme, using me, knowing what my
destiny would be and how I couldmake an impact in the world.
I remember thinking that peopleneeded to learn how to love.
And that somehow that was goingto be my mission.
(06:20):
I was going to teach peopleabout love.
And so, as a young girl in myearly 20s, I found myself in San
Francisco, as many of the babyboomers did, at that early 1970s
time when it was just thebeginning of the hippies.
We were love children, we wantedpeace.
(06:41):
It was the middle of the VietnamWar, and we wanted the war to
stop.
We thought love should handleeverything.
San Francisco was very beautifulthen.
It wasn't drug-ridden, it wasreally um looking at exploring
our human potential and who wecould be, and we were all
together and we lived incommunes and we were peaceful.
(07:03):
And I remember sitting in theGolden Gate Park with my floppy
cowboy hat on the grass, youknow, getting spare change as I
played my guitar.
And if somebody went by that Ithought looked like they needed
the change more than me, I wouldactually give them my change.
So I was that kind of a hippiebaby boomer.
And it was the era of when humanpotential just started.
(07:28):
Jose Silva, Alexander Everettwith Mind Dynamics, um, a lot of
the very small, very firstEsselon had just been created by
Michael Murphy, and we were justbeginning to realize that we
could be bigger than we knew,that we had more potential, that
we could develop ourselves.
And I happened to meet WernerEarhart, who was the founder of
(07:52):
Est, which became Landmark,which is now the largest
personal development company inthe world with over three and a
half million graduates.
But when I met him, he was justuh starting to train a course
called Mind Dynamics before weeven created Est.
And there was 30 of us in thatclass.
(08:12):
And at the end of that class, Ihad a vision.
And I took the class becauseprevious to meeting order and
finding out about mind dynamicsbefore Est was created, I
interned with my aunt, who was aclairvoyant healer and an
esoteric astrologist.
And she taught me about personalpower and she taught me how to
(08:34):
meditate, and she taught meabout metaphysics, and she
taught me about energy, and shetaught me how to heal, and she
taught me how to get in touchwith the powerful bigger self
within me that had the wisdom.
And so when I first met Wernerand I took the first training
from him with the 30 people,that was called mind dynamics at
(08:56):
that time.
What I thought was this wasgoing to be the vehicle to bring
what I had learned from my auntabout who I was and who people
could discover who they were tothe masses.
I wasn't even taking thattraining to help myself so much,
as I was as I wanted to takethis training and help it grow
(09:18):
to become more available to morepeople.
Little did I know that we wereabout ready to start a cultural
revolution and a culturalphenomenon, and that not only
would we grow, we went fromthose 31st students in that
first seminar.
I became the vice president andin charge of marketing and
(09:38):
filling events and producingevents, which was a whole story
in itself about learning how tofill auditoriums with five and
six and eight thousand people.
Um what happened was by the timeI left, there was almost 800,000
graduates.
So that arc from the early 1971to when I really separated from
(10:01):
Est at the very end of 1979,which is less than almost 10
years, was remarkable.
But then I, you know, because ofmy fame, and I did have fame at
that time, um, being kind of theface of Est and introducing
Werner at the special guestseminars and at the events and
(10:23):
filling the events and producingthe events and training the
staff to enroll, creating someof the programs that now are the
introductory seminar leadersprogram training programs.
It was it was I learned also thedeficit of power, the warning
(10:44):
signs of when people get takenand kind of get power is
addictive.
And um I learned this not justin Est before I became landmark,
but also um as I work with JohnHanley in Lifespring, as I work
with Tony Robbins, I ran hisbusiness for two years and
(11:05):
helped take him national.
I helped Jack Canfield createand I co-created the
Transformational LeadershipCouncil with him.
So I've been in the realm ofself-development my whole life.
And what I've noticed iseveryone, whether they're the
leader or the participant, weneed to be very careful that we
stay tuned into our innerwisdom.
(11:27):
Because pretty soon when westart getting all of the
benefits from being tuned intoour inner wisdom, we start
getting the gifts of that andthe rewards, and we start having
success and even fame and wealthand power.
Sometimes, if we're not careful,we can lose our path because
(11:50):
people are really willing forsomeone else to tell them what
the answer is.
And so it because people are sowilling to allow somebody else
to say what our answer is, wedon't want to find our own
answer, we're afraid or we'renot sure how or we haven't been
taught, then the leaders who arethe gurus or the trainers or the
(12:15):
teachers have to be really extraresponsible, to be clear that
what their job is, is to be asafe container, to be with
someone in such a way that thatperson can find their own answer
rather than giving an answer tothem.
And that's what happenssometimes, and then it becomes a
(12:35):
cult and people becomerighteous.
And so I've learned so muchthrough all of those lessons
myself of the times when I wasafraid to say something because
so many other people agreed thatit should be a different way,
and we all probably knew that itwas wrong what we were doing,
(12:58):
but because everybody was doingit, nobody wanted to stand up
and be the one person that saidthis is wrong.
And so how you go along with andyou find justifications to make
yourself right about things,even if you're against your own
values or doing things that youcan see are harmful.
And I also learned thedifference between the
(13:19):
organization that produces thecourses and the courses or the
methodology themselves.
So wisdom has been around forthousands of years.
There are great masters andteachers that have given us
wisdom, you know, that go backso many, many, many years.
(13:40):
Um, so the wisdom is there, andthen people create systems of
how to deliver that wisdom.
And sometimes the organizationsand the systems and the
containers of delivering wisdombegin to be the control
mechanisms that say they'reteaching you a methodology to
(14:02):
have you freed up from being incontrol.
So here you are teaching freedomand being something that puts
people in bondage sometimes.
So there's so much to learn.
And you know, I I've had theexperiences of losing a lot of
(14:22):
money, of making a lot of money,of being very famous, of being
isolated and left alone, ofhaving my heart broken, of total
success, of betrayal.
I've been through it all.
And what I've come to realize inmy own transformation and my own
lessons is that within, if I'mvery still, I will find the
(14:47):
connection that connects me withthe rest of the universe and the
wisdom and the power of thevoice from whatever anybody
wants to call that bigger power,whether it's God or universe or
divine, there is somethingbigger than each of us that
connects all of us toeverything, not just each other,
but the rivers and the animalsand the sky and the stars.
(15:11):
And that if we're diligent andresponsible enough to keep
listening to that quiet voicewithin ourselves, and sometimes
our mind is so loud it's hard tohear that quiet voice.
So we have to learn to still ourmind and to find that voice and
to be connected to that higherpower.
(15:33):
And if you can do that, thenthere's real flow in the
universe, and things make sense,and things are um are um opened
up and delivered to you in sucha way that it makes it without
effort, and so that's where I'vebecome in my life now.
So this book is really anencapsulation of all of that,
(15:56):
and and I think it's a greatstory, it's really fun and funny
and and sad at times.
I had a friend tell me, Ilaughed so hard, I thought I was
gonna fall off my chair.
And then he said, and then Istarted crying.
I mean, my heart was just brokenin parts.
And then he said, and I got soangry, I just smashed my fist
down on the table.
(16:16):
And then he ended up by saying,and you know what, Marsha, that
book still lives with me becauseit really made me reflect and
think.
So I thought to myself, boy, youcan't get much more than that in
a book.
So hallelujah, Lord.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
And I love, I love rejoic as you're talking about
something that I know fromexperience myself, that when you
sat and reflected on it, youfelt all those emotions surface
again and sat with them becauseyou and I both know that we need
to acknowledge those feelingsand respect them and honor them.
(16:52):
That way we release them to ourhigher source of power because
only he can come in and takethat and say, Okay, now you're
ready to move into your light,and this is what you're gonna do
next.
And that's that inner voice thatwe both hear.
You learned it from your aunt onhow to quiet your mind.
(17:14):
Can you give us a couple of tipsof that?
Because in today's fallen world,people are so I mean, it's noisy
out there, Marsha, as you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
Yeah, I do know.
Well, I learned from the verybeginning, I kind of did life
backwards.
I learned how to deal with lifebefore I had any of the real
traumas.
And so when the traumashappened, I already knew how to
be at peace, or knew that it wasa gift, or considered that it
was something that was probablyteaching me something.
(17:44):
So even though it felt the sameway as all pain does, I had a
perspective on it that allowedme to keep going.
And I think that's the power ofthe of the human spirit, also.
But I think that one of thethings that I've always known is
you learn in two different ways.
Uh, one, you learn through yourmind by understanding something.
(18:07):
So someone can teach yousomething and explain it and you
will understand it.
But you also have a body, andthe mind and the body are
connected, even though they'renot the same.
They are connected, so theyinfluence each other.
When you have a thought, youwill notice that your body, if
it's a sad thought, your bodywill droop.
Um, and if you're feeling pain,you start thinking thoughts
(18:31):
about being anxious orsomething.
So they influence each other andtrigger each other, the mind and
the body, but they're separate.
And how the mind learns isthrough understanding.
How the body learns is throughpractice.
The body has to do something toembody it to be able to learn
it.
(18:52):
And this is very interestingbecause if you notice any skill
set you've ever tried to learnthat you needed your body to
know, like playing the piano oreven riding a bicycle.
You know, the first time yourode the bicycle, probably
somebody told you about balanceand explained it to you about
how you're supposed to be whenyou ride a bicycle.
(19:13):
And even if you had a book andyou read the whole book about
how to ride a bicycle, when youget on that bicycle, it doesn't
matter all that you understandbecause your body doesn't get it
because it's not in your bodyyet.
And you have to start learningas a beginner.
And here's another kind ofbreakdown with human beings is
human beings are thrown, which Imean they automatically go in
(19:36):
the direction of being right,looking good, and knowing the
answer.
You know, you didn't get up thismorning and say, Today I want to
look like a jerk.
I want to have totally nothingwork.
I want to be wrong abouteverything.
I want to look stupid and notknow anything.
You know, like, oh, what a greatday ahead of me, right?
(19:57):
You get up and you go, Today'sthe day I'm gonna get a Done,
I'm looking good, I'm feelinggood, I know the answer, you
know.
And when we go out in life, ifthat's not actually true, we all
pretend.
You know, we're like totallysaying to ourselves, I don't
know what to do in thissituation, but we're putting on
this pretenses of I know whatI'm doing, and I got it all
(20:18):
together.
Nobody knows what they're doing,right?
So here you are as a beginner,which is the only way you can
learn or the body can learn, youhave to practice as a beginner,
you have to start, and whatwould you look like as a
beginner?
You'd look stupid and you'd bewrong, and you wouldn't know
how.
Three things that you're thrownto not want to do as a human
(20:41):
being.
So mostly people pretend ratherthan starting off as a beginner.
And when you start as a beginnerto learn how to still your mind,
see what happens is if yourmind's racing, and I think it
was Deepak Chopra that saidthis, I'm not sure, but he said
the mind is like a great ocean.
(21:02):
And when the ocean is tumultuousand raging and in you know total
uh uh upheaval, you could throwthe Empire State Building and
not see the ripples that it madebecause it's so full of all of
the tumultuousness.
But on a clear night, sometimesI've been in Hawaii on a
(21:25):
sailboat and the sea is sosmooth and just like glass.
In that kind of an ocean, youcan throw a P and see the
ripples.
So when you think of it likethat, if you're gonna create,
everything starts from a thoughtor an intention.
It's like putting something intothe ocean.
(21:46):
You're going to create it andmanifest, create some ripples,
have it be gain some momentum.
Well, if your mind is all crazylike that tumultuous ocean, it
doesn't matter how hard you holda thought, it's gonna get lost
in all of the noise.
So, in order to create anything,you have to have a still mind to
(22:09):
be able to hold a thought or anintention to be able to create
anything in reality.
So it's a skill everybody needs.
And if you don't know how to dothat and you haven't done it,
and you're like 20 or 30 or 40or even 60, you got a lot of
habits that you you you know youhave to get through and let go
(22:30):
of to even learn the skill inthe first place.
You have to practice.
So when people sit down tomeditate, and meditation is a
wonderful skill set to learn tobe in touch with that quiet
wisdom within yourself.
You get to go inside.
So it's an important thing to beable to be still.
(22:51):
But to be still, you have totrain your mind first, and that
takes practice.
And most people sit down andthey take two seconds and they
say, Oh, I can't meditate.
Well, of course you can'tmeditate.
You're a beginner, it's not likeyou got on the bicycle and you
could ride it the first time,right?
So you have to have somepatience and know that you
(23:12):
practice and you do that acouple of minutes every day
until you get a little bitcalmer, until you get a little
more still.
And then at some point, howeverlong it takes for you to be the
piano player that you'resupposed to be, when you started
off with chopsticks, just likemeditation, you start off with,
I can't meditate.
(23:33):
Um, it takes as long as it doesfor you to be able to still your
mind, then you can create, andthen you can connect inward to
the higher power of yourself andreceive all the wisdom for your
own answer that you need foryour life to be the perfect
expression of itself that ismeant to be.
And you have the stillness to beable to take those, that wisdom
(23:57):
and hold the thought and theintention to be able to create
it into a reality and haveresults in the real world.
So it's an important skill andit takes practice.
And I would say, most of all,what a person needs is a little
patience and to know that ifthey start by not being able to
see colors and not be able to bequiet, that that's a win.
(24:17):
Whatever they did in the firstthing is a win.
That's they did being a beginnerreally well.
They should pat themselves onthe back and say, I was such a
good beginner, I messed ittotally up.
So congratulations.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
I love it.
I love how you remind us that asanything in life, even as little
kids, how we learned beforepeople told us that we couldn't
do things.
We we were fearless, right?
We we got up and kept walking,we would fall and get back up
and do it again and then we fallagain, and here we go, we don't
(24:52):
stop again, and you commit alittle because it's not gonna
feel good, right?
To think about it initially, butthen you just get better and
better.
And that's uh thank you for thatreminder.
So no, it the image that I gotas you were talking.
I'm a visual person.
(25:12):
The movie Eat Prey in Love whenJulia Roberts is like sitting on
the floor trying to investigate,she's looking at the clock,
going, How do I how am I gonnado this?
you know, and that's who we are.
We're just we want it now.
And that's the problem with oursociety today is that instant
gratification.
If you don't have it now, I Iwant to quit.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
Do you find that to be true?
Or absolutely, and that's why Isay the biggest thing to remind
people is you need some patienceand to be willing to forgive
yourself and to know that thebeginner space is an art.
It takes some skill to be abeginner.
You have to be willing to bewrong, you have to be willing
(25:56):
not to know the answer, you haveto be willing to look stupid or
clumsy, you have to be willingto be a beginner in order to be
an expert.
Because the only way from to getto expert is from beginner,
otherwise, all you are is apretender.
And most people aren't willingto be beginners, pretend they
(26:17):
know what they're doing and havethe results of pretense rather
than the results of realauthenticity.
SPEAKER_02 (26:25):
That takes like you said, patience and willingness,
patience, not in our timing,obviously, but in in the
universe or in God's timing,because it is perfect.
That that God's master plan isso perfect, and when we reflect
(26:46):
later, maybe not in the timethat we're moving through our
journey.
In those times, I think iskeeping that that sense of
presence is a good idea, not toget pulled into our past, which
can happen easily.
Our patterns are always in thebackground.
They're wanting to be, you know,they emerge from time to time,
and and it's up to us toacknowledge, oh, okay, there
(27:08):
they are.
Thank you.
Yes, no, but I don't need youright now, but thank you.
Thank you for sharing up.
I appreciate you.
An identity that insists on I Ihad my seven-year-old little
anxious identity that thatfollows my husband around when
we fight.
And she wants to make thingsright.
Because I would like you, yeah.
(27:30):
I had that relationship with mydad.
My dad was a super highachiever, um, perfectionist, but
he came from a highly abusivehome.
And in my own book, I alsodetail how abusive it was so
that people could understandthat that unhealed part of us
projects in ways that you don'tintend.
(27:52):
You know, they do the best jobthat they are consciously aware
of of doing, right?
And and when they don't do theself-help and they don't, you
know, devote time to to theirpersonal growth, they're not
gonna realize that they'remaking a mistake until until
it's already out there.
(28:12):
And then your little mind hasalready picked up on it.
So we know the subconscious minddoesn't have a filter, it's
always listening.
So it's really important for usto understand that that aspect.
And like you, I wanted so muchfor my dad's approval that I
achieved to the form ofexhaustion.
(28:34):
And then came the medicaldiagnosis of like facing six
doctors in a hospital roomfacing an 80% chance of dying,
and got and the medical doctorsnot confident at all.
And I was at the Texas, likelike Houston Medical Center,
(28:55):
facing facing what I was facing.
And I remember just surrenderingto God because I knew that
science had was limited, andlimited was God for me.
Because I'm a woman of faith,and and that that testimony is
is so strong, it's my freechapter on my website.
Because I want people to gain,to really understand that love
(29:18):
that I felt, that understandingand that security that no one
else outside of me can give me.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
You brought up so many things.
So, first of all, childhood is avery interesting thing because
think about it, children don'tunderstand the concept of
ownership until they're aroundtwo or three, which is why it's
so hard to get them to share.
Because they don't get that it'snot theirs.
If you take a two-year-old or athree-year-old into a candy
store, they will just reach forthe candy.
(29:50):
They don't understand, theydon't it's not theirs yet,
right?
If they don't understandownership, then everything is
mine, is what they how theylook, that's their perspective.
So it also transpires toeverything is my fault.
So when a child looks out intothe universe, like your children
(30:12):
who are following you, if theysee you arguing with your mate,
they think it's their fault.
And we take on these things aschildren that oh, I did that.
So it's a it's a very kind ofopening piece of being a human
being.
Then the other thing is we havea mind that has a structure
(30:34):
that's a support system.
Kind of like you have a libraryyou can go to and check out a
book and get information onanything.
Your mind keeps its own libraryof traumatic incidents that
happened between the time youwere three and eight.
And in that little recollectionof whatever happened, if you
(30:54):
went unconscious or you were infront of fear or you were
threatened or you were intrauma, the mind thinks this
isn't a good enough incident tohold on to, to learn from, and
it holds on to everything thathappened, how you felt, what you
did, how you acted, etc., like aholographic picture.
And then if the mind seesanything in the future that
(31:18):
looks like that old incident,then the mind has a trigger that
says, oh, this is just likethat.
So let's pull this out, let'scheck this book out of the
library and read it about how toact, right?
And it puts you on automaticjust immediately, that's a
(31:39):
trigger for you to react in acertain way, and you act just
like you did then.
And and what's really sad aboutthis is the mind needs some kind
of uh system to know if this newevent is like the old event.
And the sorting system is if itlooks like it, sounds like it,
(32:00):
feels like it, acts like it, oranything accordingly, everyone
says it is it, it's the same.
So you could get um knocked downby a dog when you're three,
which had hairy brown hair and awet tongue, and then when you're
18, be in the backseat of themovie house with your the
(32:24):
football star that you've beenwanting to kiss you forever, and
it comes nearer and nearer, andthe the black fur collar of his
leather jacket, you know, goesup against your chin, and his
tongue, you feel the wetness,and all of a sudden you start
screaming and saying, Stop,stop, stop, and you're
antagonistic, just like you werewhen the dog pushed you down.
(32:49):
You know, you got scared and youcried and you yelled and you
screamed and you fought.
And because the mind says, Hey,it's the same thing, we better
pull out that same old behaviorand see if it works this time
because we survived last time.
So let's try it out.
So it's a lot of stuff you haveto be aware of to be able to
say, Oh, my wow, I'm noticingI'm triggered, I'm on automatic
(33:13):
before I act.
Get back in present time, youknow.
And I always teach my studentsand the people that I coach and
the people that I train incorporations, like I say, the
axiom is center first, then act.
Center first, then act.
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
Well, and you think you dance, like yeah, yeah, you
have to come back to center.
And you're and you're just like,oh yeah, getting this.
It looks weird.
Right, center, left, center, andthen it's like come back.
What is your center?
Yeah, for for some, it's theawareness, it's the presence.
(33:51):
For me, it's God, like center,center, come back, come back.
I've been gone like these lasttwo weeks.
I received some news that kindof spun my world.
And my light dimmed.
And but you know, and I caughtmyself, and there were two days
I quit talking to God.
(34:11):
I was so mad at him.
And and people don't realizethat I speak of him so well and
I love him so well.
But uh he knows when I get angryat him, and and he he gets it,
he has a really good sense ofhumor with me.
And and then he sends memessengers like you and the
previous interview, you know, oflike as a reminder, remember
(34:35):
this.
Come back to center.
This is where you start off.
You get crazy, your mind getscrazy, come back to center.
What is it?
Whatever it is for you as ahuman being, and it's different
for everyone.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
But being present and in this moment and now, not
in the future, not in the past,but being here, however, you get
yourself there is everyone's ownexpression for sure.
And and I would say, you know,you have such a beautiful faith,
and for me, faith isconsciousness as well as faith,
because consciousness expands,and as your faith grows, as it
(35:14):
expands, you have a betterunderstanding of what this is
all about, what you're meant tobe here to do, etc.
And how I explain it to myselfis there's kind of like four
major stages of consciousness,and the first is where we
operate as if the world isacting on us, we're at the
(35:35):
effect, and that's a victimmentality.
So I look to see thecircumstances before I decide
what I'm committed to, and mycommitment depends on the
circumstances, so the world isacting on me, and that's a
certain kind of consciousnesswhere it's being done to me, I'm
(35:57):
not at cause, I'm notresponsible, I can't do anything
about it, I'm a victim.
And that kind of consciousness,the way it grows is it takes you
to a place where it throws youdown and spits you out.
In other words, you have abreakdown.
People usually, if they're avictimized, victimized,
victimized, get to the placewhere it gets so horrible that
(36:19):
something inside of them says,wait, I'm here, I have
willpower.
And you call upon that space andyou kind of pop into the next
level of consciousness where yousee that you can act on the
world.
It's not that you're a victim,you can cause things, but in
that next level ofconsciousness, you're causing
(36:40):
things for you.
It's a very kind ofself-centered causal
relationship with the worldwhere I'm gonna get me a house,
I'm gonna get me some cars, I'mgonna get me a wife or a
husband, I'm gonna get me adegree, I'm gonna get me, and
you start accumulating thingsand producing things and making
things and results that are allabout you, you, you, you.
(37:02):
And then at some point thatconsciousness expands or kicks
into the next level when youstart to say to yourself, is
that all there is?
Because none of those thingsreally provide joy or
fulfillment.
You can never get enough of whatyou really don't want.
(37:22):
Doesn't matter how many housesyou have, it doesn't fulfill you
in such that a sense ofcontribution does.
And so you c you clamor to havea higher purpose, and the
beginning of faith comes in interms of you say there's
something bigger than myself,there's a bigger purpose here,
there's a bigger order, there'sa bigger power, and you start
(37:42):
operating from that.
Now, here is where I think youand I come in, because we have
come to a place where that hashappened.
We have found that there issomething bigger that we should
be about.
I'm not about the money, I'm notabout the fame, I'm about the
contribution.
I want to make people's livesbetter and this a better world,
and I'm committed to that.
(38:02):
But you pop into a differentstate of consciousness because
the universe or God, your faith,Him, however you pronounce the
beautiful world that's the wordthat says who it is that is
making all of this happen in thefirst place.
Um when the universe noticesyou're about contribution and
(38:26):
you're about giving and you'reabout making this a better
world, when you've done thatenough and your life is about
that higher purpose, theuniverse kicks you into another
consciousness, which is it usesyou.
And that's a very interestingspace because if you don't
listen then, and the universewill give you a few warnings,
(38:49):
you know, a couple of nods here,and a couple of you know, remind
you and poke you on, you know.
And if you don't listen aboutafter the third time, it just
takes you down and slams youinto a place where it will take
you out of that path and put youin the path it wants you,
whether you whether you thinkyou know, it's just you're being
(39:09):
used.
And I think that's where you arenow.
I know that's where I am.
I know that if I don't stay trueto the thing that I'm supposed
to contribute and be about, soit's dangerous for me, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
Like spiritual warfare, my love.
And it comes at you really hard.
Um, and it's when you arealready in mission, you're
already in purpose, yeah, andit's coming to distract you from
that and pull you back into thedepths of despair.
Yeah, it doesn't realize is thatin that darkness is where the
(39:45):
light is the brightest.
SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Okay.
And how we can constantly beingpulled back out.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
I had an experience in my marriage, and I share it
in my book, but I hadstepchildren and one of them
committed suicide.
Now that was heartbreaking.
He was only sixteen.
He was just my favorite youngman and he loved me and I felt
very special because it's hardfor a child to have a stepmother
(40:13):
and a mother.
And you have your own loyalties.
And he was just full out lovedme.
And um but what I realized is Iknew that that marriage wasn't
going in the direction itshould.
I wasn't being the person I wassupposed to be.
I was putting up with thingsthat really weren't aligned with
(40:34):
where I thought was what mypower, my destiny, my ability
was.
And as much as I tried to makeit work, it wasn't going to work
because it wasn't the path Ishould have been on in the first
place.
Now that's a pretty big hit.
But the minute that happened, Irealized this is the kind of
(40:54):
thing that happens that's notsupposed to happen in my life.
In other words, this is not theflow for me.
And when that happened, I justsaid to my husband, and we're
still great friends, I said,it's this is over.
This is not where either of usshould be.
We need to get divorced, we needto make our lives work the way
(41:16):
that it should, because therewas something off.
And I think the universe doesthat in its own way.
It takes you down if you and andwe're so stubborn as human
beings, aren't we?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
We just like I told you at the beginning before we
even started recording, it tooka mech truck for me to just get
snapped back into all right,child.
I I've been whispering to you,you don't listen.
Okay, I love you, but here comesa little bit of pain.
(41:53):
The divine one, you know, I'mlike, here you go.
And and he periodically willshow up that that way.
And then he'll also show up in agentle and loving way because,
like you, I wanted my dad couldbe harsh.
He was a perfectionist, and Iloved him dearly.
He passed away last year.
But and that was the whole,thank you.
(42:15):
That was the whole purpose ofwhy he prompted me to write the
first edition of my book, was soI could heal that relationship
with my dad.
And I we could be friends thelast four years of his life.
And then the second edition wasmore about the the real journey
of out of the cage of fear intothe joy and presence of joy, and
(42:37):
then the ultimate, which is thelevel I'm in now, of trusting,
trusting in God's sovereignty,like totally releasing control
and all these illusions the mindcreates, the perfectionism, the
control, the elements that havestood in my path, that have
stood blocking my light.
(43:01):
And so right now, God, the greatsurgeon, is using his scapel and
just slicing away my pride,which was a big that I mean it's
it's been the biggest detrimentin my relationships, not just
with myself, but with my husbandand my my children and my past.
(43:24):
And right now it's like I wastelling somebody this morning I
feel like a piece of laundry,and he's like ringing it out
like a towel, like and I'm like,Can you just be a little bit
more gentle?
Can you just please?
And and he's like, You asked mefor this.
Remember that you asked me, youwanted to be more like me.
(43:44):
Great.
I love you for that.
It's gonna require some of this.
I'm sorry, but here it goes.
And when I read part of like thebeginning part of your book, and
you said step out of thoseashes, you know, fire is a
refinement, like there's metalsthat get refined in fire.
And I always find fire is such abig symbol in the old testament.
(44:09):
This is how God showed up withfire, and he uses fire to refine
us and to just okay, you'regonna face trials and
tribulations, you're gonna haveperseverance, and out of that
perseverance, which is somethingthat defined you, Marsha.
I I know that as I was reading,I was like, Yes, this woman and
(44:29):
I we might as well be sisters,yes, because uh because we both
have gone through similarjourneys, I'm not saying the
same, we both have encounteredpowerful men, yes, and we've
both been so eager to pleasethose powerful men in our life
because of our relationship withour fathers.
(44:50):
Yes, very good, and we and weboth adored our fathers.
I adored Mike, yeah, but man, hewas he could be harsh.
He, you know, there was theconstant like you should have
been a lawyer and you shouldhave been a doctor.
And I was like, and up untilthen, I like he died.
Like when he passed away, he haddementia, and sometimes I
(45:13):
couldn't remember who I was.
And and there were times that Icould see the flickers, and and
when he died, I had severalpeople walk up to me that said,
You don't know how proud yourdad was of you.
And I was like, Well, I neededto hear that because I didn't
hear it in person from him.
Yeah, what I heard was you couldhave and should have.
(45:38):
That's a tough pill to swallow.
Um, and that's why we bothlanded in these spaces where we
were just so willing to give upour worth.
Yes, our worth to make other menlook better.
Yeah.
I just why women do that?
I don't know.
I don't know.
It's like why do we do that?
SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
Yeah, it's it's a tough lesson to learn.
I was also thinking of an imagethat I hold while you were
speaking when I think of theuniverse, of God, of the great
divine, is kind of like anocean.
And the ocean crashes into therocks and a spray goes up, and
(46:21):
it's an individual droplets ofthe spray, which are individual
expressions of the ocean itself,but they're still part of the
ocean and connected, and I thinkthat's how I consider myself as
a human being.
I'm an individual expression ofthe consciousness and the
divine, where everything isconnected, and my little
(46:44):
expression is Marsha, and I havemy lessons, and I have this
color hair and this color ofpersonality fault or whatever,
and your expression is Sylvia,and you do your thing.
But when we remember, we'restill connected, and when we
come from that alignment, and Ithink alignment trumps
everything, it's when we arethinking our individual
(47:05):
expression is a separation,which it's not, it's still part
of the whole, it's just anindividual expression.
When I was in the rainforest, uhuh living with the Ashwar for a
period of time, I learned somany lessons.
And the chieftain said, Youpeople from the north, and he
meant all of us in civilization.
(47:26):
He says, You you handle yourselflike you're the fingers on a
hand, all so individual and soimportant by itself.
He says, What you fail torealize is you're part of a hand
that's a community, a tribe, asystem, a country, uh, you know,
there's a team, there's afamily.
And he says, worse than that,you don't notice that it's
(47:48):
connected to a whole ecosystemwhere you are one with the
waterfalls and the animals andthe rocks and the stars, and you
are connected.
So I think that knowing that Ican be separate in terms of an
individual expression, but thatit's an expression of the same.
So we're all one.
(48:08):
And as long as I go within andconnect to that body of water or
light or consciousness or love,that then if I'm aligned, it'll
all work out okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
Yeah, yeah, you feel the disalignment, you know when
it's small.
I felt it yesterday, and Godcame back to me and said, You
know how you talked to yourhusband the other night?
Don't do that, don't do that.
That's not you are contributingto that corrosion.
Yeah, this is your part in that.
(48:44):
So I need you to stop pointingthe finger at him and to start
looking inward and start fixingyou.
I was like, thank you for that.
You're so kind.
Thank you for being gentle andnot being like my dad is like
what you know, coming downhill.
Like, come on, I know you'reresponsible and I know you can
do this.
And oh my goodness, much that wecould go on and on.
(49:07):
I know we can.
We get to the end of thisinterview.
Do change your book once againbecause we do want to see the
cover.
SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
And it's a bestseller, and it's a
cliffhanger, and it's athriller, and it's a page
turner.
SPEAKER_02 (49:27):
And yes, you must must read it.
I'm not, I'm can't wait to toget in line to go pick up my
daughter so I can go in thephone.
I just read past chapter threebecause I'm there and I'm just
I'm you left me hanging, and sonow I've got to get back to it.
But any last words ofempowerment for the listeners
(49:50):
have released out?
SPEAKER_01 (49:51):
I would say welcome the experience, and that
everybody's job is what, and theuniverse's job is how.
And if you put out the what andsay, this is what I'm intending,
this is what I want, this iswhat is important, the universe
will figure out exactly the wayto give it to you.
And sometimes it doesn't give itto you in the way you would
(50:14):
expect or that you want, butwhatever way it's giving it to
you, you must know it's theright way because it's what's
happening.
So, whatever the experience,welcome the experience.
SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
Oh, I love that so much! Oh my goodness.
Thank you, Marsha.
Really thank you for for beingon my show, for for sharing your
wisdom, sharing your story.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
It's so powerful.
Oh, and I want to just say onemore thing.
If people want to go to marshamartin transform.com and it's M
A R C I A,M-A-R-T-I-N-Transform.com, they
can sign up for my Marsha MartinClub, which is a digital library
of workshops and seminars thatI've given over the years and
(50:58):
podcasts and and speakingengagements, where uh I think if
you take a little chunk of thewisdom at a time and at your
leisure, it sometimes reallypenetrates even more profoundly.
There's a free month gift.
You can be part of the club forfree for a whole month.
So Marcia MartinTransform.com.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
Thank you for that.
Oh my goodness.
Yes, I had forgotten to mentionthat.
I was like, oh, I saw a code Iremember on the manuscript.
So I'll definitely look into it.
And for the listeners who havereleased that reveal purpose,
remember Matthew 5.14 to be thelight.
Look, look at the bright lightthat Marcia has been in the
world.
You take notice if she can do itcoming from where she came from,
(51:40):
you can do it too.
That nothing is stopping you,only your mind is stopping you,
and you have ways around that.
If you hear the interview andyou let those words seep into
you, you'll find your way.
And you let God do figure outthe how.
You don't have to figure out thehow.
That's his job.
Have a wonderful week.
Love you.
(52:00):
They say bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (52:04):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance to grandprize drawing back to win a
$25,000 private VIP day withSylvia Worsham herself.
(52:27):
Be sure to head on over torelease outreve
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.