Some conversations feel scary until someone hands you the right words. We brought together two suicide attempt survivors, Deborah and Brian, to share the tools, language, and lived insight that help families break silence, reduce shame, and make safer choices when emotions run high.
Their prevention-first approach is built for real life: short lessons, tactile workbooks, and simple prompts that help kids separate powerful feelings from irreversible actions.
They share a simple, prevention-first framework that helps families talk openly about suicide, bullying, and big feelings. We show parents how to start hard conversations early, give kids a shared language for emotions, and use a tactile workbook to turn insight into action.
• five stages of intellectual development as a clear decision-making tool
• how vocabulary reduces shame and opens conversation
• social media, bullying, and hidden distress in high achievers
• why “wait one more day” helps disrupt catastrophic thinking
• early talks at home as prevention not reaction
• warning signs to watch for and when none appear
• practical prompts parents can use to begin
• program access, pricing, and school outreach in Alberta
• website link and direct email contact for support
If you would like to connect with Deborah and Brian please visit their website at: https://www.survivorsofhopelessness.com.
To download a free chapter of host Sylvia Worsham's bestselling book, In Faith, I Thrive: Finding Joy Through God's Masterplan, purchase any of her products, or book a call with her, visit her website at www.sylviaworsham.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
Hey Lightbringers, it's Sylvia Warsham.
SPEAKER_01 (00:34):
Welcome to Release Out Reveal Purpose.
And today is Brian Wardell andDeborah Susan, and they're
talking about a subject that isvery near and dear to my heart:
suicide prevention.
And I find it interesting thetiming because this is a topic
that's been coming up quite abit lately, especially in
teenagers, because in pubertytheir minds start to change, and
(00:58):
that's when the thoughts startto rage, and the rage begins,
right?
The hormonal changes.
And I've been it's been in myheart to talk about this because
I have a little girl, she'salready a pre-tween, if you
will, she's 10 years old, and Iknow that I've read articles,
especially in girls with ADD,and that's something that my
(01:19):
daughter suffers from.
It is something that they'vetalked extensively about because
suicide is a very real issue.
So without further ado, thankyou for joining us today, Brian
and Deborah Susan.
Please tell us how and why thishas been your mission in life.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
Well, I will start that as I am a teen suicide
attempt survivor.
Now it was a long, long timeago.
It was back in 1972, but I hadan excellent doctor at the time
who showed me that I had a rightto live, that my the way my
parents treated me was in factwrong.
(02:03):
And that is what put me on apath to wanting to live.
That's a lot of therapy.
(02:24):
Now I didn't go every year,every month, but off and on, um,
1972 to 2016.
And when I received that healingand I was able to think clear,
and it I was so grateful.
And I mean I had now lived 10years with this freedom and none
of that baggage anymore.
(02:45):
And I just felt that if I hadknown or if I had had a format
or a framework to know how tomake right choices and good
choices in life, I would havenever considered suicide.
So I put together the program sothat I could pass it on.
Because you know how they say,if I knew then or I know now, I
(03:08):
would have done thingsdifferently.
Well, my what I say is kindsight is 2020.
So let our past experience beyour best teacher to these
students.
They don't have to go down therabbit hole, they don't have to
experience all the severities ifthey understand life's cycles.
(03:34):
And that's what we developed.
It's called five stages ofintellectual development to keep
it separate from emotional,spiritual, uh, physical.
But we of course address thefeelings because the feelings
are what's behind the decisions,right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Yeah, we know that the feelings that promote the
reactions, and then thereactions give us the results,
right?
So if we have a reaction of Ineed to kill myself, I will.
And I've actually talked a lotto my daughter and my son about
this because they both sufferfrom my suffer, my my boy
(04:12):
suffers from ADHD.
He actually does have thehyperactivity to it.
My daughter doesn't, but Iremember just reading article
upon article saying whenhormones shift everything and
their minds change, they do havethose thoughts.
And I've I've addressed some ofthese things with my daughter.
There are times that yourthoughts are gonna tell you
(04:34):
something, and that's not meanthat you go and you do it.
And um and peer pressure isanother thing that kids, you
know, they do some sillychallenges and they think, oh,
it's not gonna kill me, it's notgonna do anything to me.
And then lo and behold, it does,it kind of fulfills its its own
destiny.
And we we actually had theopportunity to open up the
(04:56):
subject of suicide justrecently, unfortunately, because
a a preteen girl took her ownlife.
Um, it was a girl that um I didnot know, but in my heart of
hearts as a parent, my heartjust sank when I read the
article because she was known toa good friend of mine, her
(05:18):
daughter had been her bestfriend in elementary school, and
it just hit closer to home.
And I remember just taking theopportunity, I knew my daughter
might hear about the incidentbecause it happened in the same
district as my kids go toschool, and I figured it's a
great opportunity for me to justdiscuss this and take the shame
(05:40):
out of discussing somethingbecause I know that culturally
speaking, sometimes people theydon't want to talk about these
topics because they're taboo intheir mind.
Brian, can you share how youguys um remove that taboo from
suicide?
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
Well, I mean, it's a matter of um giving people
permission to talk about it in asense.
I mean you know, by talkingabout it sometimes just bringing
up a subject sometimes invitespeople to then uh speak of their
(06:19):
own experiences or thingsthey've heard.
I definitely found that.
Um also giving people thevocabulary that perhaps they
lack uh is a uh a big part of ittoo.
The they the royal they um don'tknow uh don't know how to
(06:45):
express these uh in thesefeelings, but if you can if you
can give them a vocabulary forit, all of a sudden they come
pouring out.
Uh so that's something that wetry to do is speak openly,
matter-of-factly, uh but alsowith a little bit of warmth and
(07:08):
humor and humanity as well.
SPEAKER_04 (07:11):
Humanity, I think, is the key word there.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It's just making it to where we're all connected,
you know, and we all have faceddifficult chapters, if you will.
I know that if I didn't have mymother close to me in the years
that I was being extensivelybullied in high school, it would
have led possibly to a to maybea suicide attempt.
(07:37):
Um, but she was so close to meand she just stayed close to me
and and was my my one truefriend throughout it all.
I had teachers that wouldprotect me too in their
classrooms because they knew ofthe bully.
They knew um, and despite goingto administration, nothing was
ever done.
(07:58):
And and I know how tell me,Brian, because I don't know you
very well.
I heard Deborah's story.
How are you personally connectedto this mission?
SPEAKER_02 (08:08):
Well, uh, I attempted suicide in 2019.
Um I had been a caregiver for mymother uh for a number of years,
and I had struggled withdepression and anxiety my whole
life and lacking a feeling ofpurpose and belonging, and being
(08:30):
a caregiver for my mother in inthat I found that purpose.
But then she was diagnosed withterminal cancer after getting
weaker and weaker, and uh thatfeeling that purpose yanked away
from me and not being able toimagine a future that I would
(08:53):
want to be a part of, I made thedecision to end my own life.
Um thankfully I survived.
I'm in a wheelchair and missingmy right leg, but um in a better
mental state than I was fordecades.
Uh and so um uh now Deborahcontacted me because she was
(09:20):
friends with a woman who hadbeen friends with my mother and
so she heard of my situationthrough that, she contacted me
and we spoke for a bit and shesaid, Hey, would you be you
know, do you want to use yourexperience to help stop other
people?
And it's like, yeah, that's I'dbeen thinking I wanted to do
(09:43):
that.
And so that's my connection.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
And I find it interesting because I'm I'm a
woman, like a faith, and I doknow that our purpose is our
divine purpose.
The reason why we're here onthis earth doesn't come
linearly, like we sometimes gothrough these dark chapters for
a purpose, and now we are put ina position to be able to relate
(10:11):
to the feelings that these kidsare feeling or these adults are
feeling, that desperation, thatoverwhelm, that just the
thoughts just overwhelm you.
And if you do suffer fromanxiety or OCD, we know that
thoughts just come out ofnowhere, and there's like not
much we can do to truly.
(10:31):
I mean, we can do there's stepsthat we can do, and there's
therapies that we can apply tokind of minimize the amount of
thoughts and how we listen toour thoughts and whether we
listen or talk ourselves into adifferent state.
But regardless of that, I'm I'mgrateful that that Deborah Susan
came into your life and said,Hey, I think you have a purpose
(10:55):
here.
Do you guys see this as beingyour divine purpose and what
you'll do until you graduateinto heaven?
Or is there something else thatyou guys are working on
currently?
SPEAKER_03 (11:08):
The short answer is absolutely yes.
Uh, we definitely do because Ihad just been thinking, I put
the program together, and I waslooking at it and considering
promotional and advertising, andI thought to myself, you know,
to present this program, Ireally should have a male-female
balance.
(11:30):
And I'm thinking, nobody find aman who first of all experienced
and survived suicide, and whowould be willing to talk about
that.
No.
And and would would be willingto work with me on this.
And I'm asking like the universethis question when uh my my
(11:54):
friend Rosemary called me andtold me about Brian.
And I said, Okay then.
And I walked into his room, andit was like something in the
back of my mind said, There heis.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah, we usually feel it in our gut.
Like it's an instinct, it's it'sintuitive hit that we get on
this is the person we've talked.
Like, I talk to God every day,and it's like, send me someone
I'm I'm here to bless today.
Just make it very clear for me.
And yesterday he made it realcrystal clear, like who I was
meant to reach out to.
(12:28):
And I came back from thatmeeting, and I remember sitting
with my husband.
I had skipped dinner because Isaid, you know, this may be
long.
And I got back and I was just II'm someone that allows the Holy
Spirit to kind of speak throughme.
There are words that have comeout of my mouth that are not
mine.
One time I remember talking atthe end of one of my interviews,
(12:51):
like as a guest.
At the end, they said, you know,what additional comments do you
want to say?
And I just remember it was suchan out-of-body experience.
And the words were about suicideand about reminding people of
their light, that they're herefor a purpose, and that their
light is very much needed.
And if they're evencontemplating suicide, that is
(13:13):
not of God, this is not what Hewants, and they barely serve a
purpose here on earth.
So I'm I came back yesterday andwas just like I had had another
out-of-body experience, and itwas so amazing because that
intuition, when we when we getpulled in a certain direction,
(13:34):
that's what we're meant to do inour life.
And that's why we are in thismoment in time talking about
suicide prevention.
Why?
Because there's so many kids outthere that this is the only
solution they see.
And I and why this is sopassionate for me is that that
because there's so many bullyingcases, and you and you read
(13:56):
these cases, it's heartbreaking.
Yes.
Heartbreaking.
Are you guys working withschools to talk about suicide
prevention currently?
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
Or not as yet.
We are definitely talking to thepowers that be that would make
that possible, but yeah, thereis a process that has to be
adhered to uh for anything to gointo uh we are in Calvary,
Alberta, Canada.
So we're in Alberta, yeah.
So there's processes, everyplace has it, and so you just
(14:30):
have to follow that and theirtiming and their pacing.
Um, but what I will say in in uhrelation to what you were
expressing there, we um as wellrecognize the third dimension,
which is the spiritualdimension.
However, our program is designedfor students.
(14:52):
This is people as young as ageeight.
And so to keep it crisp andfocused and to give them
something that they can workwith.
We have a physical workbook thatthey can write in, draw on, do
whatever with that goes with theinstructional video.
(15:13):
And that is just a component, asmall component that they can
use.
Now, the spiritual experiencethey have, their age, you know,
we we also talk to adults andand teenagers, uh, 19,
20-year-old people.
So everybody has their ownindividual experience regarding
(15:34):
the spiritual, etc.
And we want to leave that withthem.
All we want to do is providethis simple tool.
It's like, and and we havesimplified it so much.
Uh, it's called the five stagesof intellectual development
again to keep it separate fromall the other uh uh dimensions.
(15:56):
And yeah, for students andparents to use as a means of
communication, it opens theconversation, it gives solid
grounding to the thoughtpatterns and how to deal with
those thought patterns and thefeeling.
(16:18):
I'm sorry, go ahead.
I was just gonna say, as far asbullying goes, now Brian, that
is his area of expertise.
He suffered a great deal ofbullying.
So um he has been a perfectbalance for our uh presentation
in that regard.
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
I'd like to shift the conversation that way
because I know there's parentsout there that might be
listening who have uhpre-pubescent children and who
might have some of these othercombinations.
ADD is a very common umaffliction here in the United
States.
I don't know about Canada, buthere for sure.
(16:57):
And so, Brian, I really I'minterested in hearing more about
what tips can you provideparents to get the conversation
started with their children.
SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Well, quite remarkably, um there is a lady
that I worked with, and uhDeborah and I uh she has a
podcast.
Deborah and I shared our programwith her, and when she
introduced that um when sheintroduced that program to her
(17:32):
children, uh her son immediatelysaid, Oh, I think my friend
so-and-so should take this withus because uh he just recently
attempted suicide for the fourthtime and the co- mother the
mother the co-worker of mine anduh oh yeah, you know, because
(17:59):
he's he's gay and his boyfriend,um you know, like virtual online
boyfriend had just recently uhtaken his own microphone.
And like my coworker knew noneof that.
And so Jeff, like I I mentionedbefore, sometimes just
(18:23):
introducing the subject and uhcan create uh the most the most
incredible opportunities to haveconversations on these things.
Uh again, not most of the timenot happy, cheerful, fluffy
(18:44):
conversations that uh we inNorth America typically enjoy,
but very important ones.
And uh so yeah, uh I mean peoplehave asked me plenty of times
how so you know, if you don'tmind me asking, how'd you lose
your leg?
Was it a uh you know, uh atraffic accident or something?
(19:06):
And I tell them, well no, it wasactually a suicide attempt.
And oh, you know, I attemptedsuicide back when I was twenty
or um you know, I recently lostsomebody, or you know, all of a
sudden it just it seems to, youknow, it opens the floodgates
(19:27):
and all of a sudden people starttalking about this.
So when I talk about givingpermission, um you know, they
people are taking theseopportunities to have these
discussions.
And sometimes children will openup about these things when the
(19:48):
topic is broached, but if it'snot, all of that just stays and
I mean that's that's not good.
SPEAKER_04 (19:58):
Fonts under pressure often explode in time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Well, yeah, no, at least just broaching the
subject.
I just know that some peoplereally struggle with even
broaching the subject.
So if they are struggling withthat, Brian or Deborah Susan,
I'm not sure who wants to takethis question, what other tips
can you provide them?
Because I know that, well,that's my question.
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
Well, I would like to say that our website is a
good place to go.
Uh, it's called uh it'ssurvivorsofopelessness.com.
And at the very bottom of thatwebsite, there is a music video
that is more uh inclined towardsintervention than prevention.
(20:50):
But our program is what we callpure prevention because we are
administering that programbefore they have the thoughts or
before the emotions, thepubescent emotions start to come
into play and overwhelm.
unknown (21:08):
So on that website, it talks about our program.
SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
You can see a trailer, uh there's also copies
of the workbooks, you can seethe workbooks, and it's very
affordable.
It's$50 for the one-hourinstructional video and three
workbooks, one parent copy andtwo student copies.
(21:33):
And you can download those rightaway if you want to on a PDF
file.
Or you can notify us and we willsend you uh hard copies, which
we do recommend.
The hard copies are so nice.
They open up to a 11 by 17format, and uh so they're nice
and big, lots of room fordrawing and taking notes and
(21:56):
things, and it just allows thestudent and the participant to
handle the information, toactually touch it and feel it,
and and include more senses thanjust listening, right?
And discussion as well.
We recommend that you showsegments at a time and then
discuss it with your children,discuss that segment.
(22:16):
What did they think and what didthey want to write in the
workbook?
SPEAKER_04 (22:19):
So what have you found um to be true about the
work you've been doing inregards to where are the common
themes you're seeing with thesekids?
Why are they attempting suicide?
Brian, did you want to takethat?
(22:40):
Because I've been talking a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
Um I mean it's the world is uh more is is faster
paced and more stressful um orat least there are more
stressors than there have everbeen.
The introduction of uh socialmedia creates an added pressure
(23:11):
um in in many ways.
Uh one that presents aninaccurate uh view of life
because you get these snapshotsthat people typically post when
things are at their best and youknow, uh the way our brains
work, we tend to perceive thatas being normal then.
(23:34):
And uh you know, we see how wefail to measure up to that.
Uh the fact too that because,you know, we talked about
bullying or you know, thesituation with bullying, imagine
how much worse that would havebeen if you couldn't even escape
that at home.
(23:55):
Because you go online, you know,to to your social network,
whatever that is, and people arebad mouthing you and and and
slandering you and and tellingyou these horrible things, uh,
even there as well.
(24:15):
So you can't get away from it.
Um and just yeah, there's justso there's so much of
everything.
Um and yeah, the pressure is onthese poor children.
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
And uh well, you know, whatever other factors
there may be as well, but thoseare big ones.
SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
I remember the uh the girl that took her own life.
There were some threads that Iread that said she was a bright,
straight A student, she was verywell liked by her peers.
Um, but then in recent months,her parents had noticed some
changes.
Can you speak more of whatchanges parents need to be on
(25:05):
the lookout for to maybe preventuh an attempt?
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Well, parents today, how you know, households are
very busy, and quite oftenparents and children are a
little more than ships passingin the night when you're taking
them to their extracurricularactivities.
I know we go through that herequite a bit.
But what I would recommend is ifthere's change in behavior, uh
(25:36):
that is the first thing.
If a child who was very activeand gregarious and outgoing is
suddenly withdrawn and spendinga lot more time in their room by
themselves, they're not asinvolved with the family
anymore.
Uh that's that's an obvious one.
But what's really uh even moreimportant is that nine times out
(26:01):
of ten you won't see it.
Parents, I have heard so manytimes, and Brian can acknowledge
this too, we didn't see itcoming.
Because they are active, they'rethe star of the football team,
they're the top cheerleader,everything is going so
(26:21):
wonderfully, and they'restepping back and thinking, how
am I doing this?
Because school sets you up tosucceed if you are involved, and
it offers all theseopportunities to be in a band,
to be in a play, to be in asports team.
And if you are good atsomething, then they support,
(26:43):
you know, and you just getpushed into this, and and
suddenly you go, it's calledimposter syndrome, and you go, I
don't know how I'm doing this.
How can I keep this going?
So there will be no change, youwill not see a difference until
boom, they're gone.
So you have to be the innovator,the parents have to have the
(27:08):
adult strength to approach theirchildren about this subject, and
our program makes that reallyeasy, really easy if you go to
the website and you can getstarted there.
So if I had a magic bullet or aquick fix that I could say, when
(27:29):
you see this, do that.
No, when your child at age 10already, you are seeing preteen,
right?
That's time to start talkingabout these things.
unknown (27:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
And introduce you taught your child to cross the
street safely.
Yeah.
Who told you to do that?
Did you wait until your childran out into the street before
you're talking?
No.
You know they have to be taughthow to do that.
This is the same thing.
Parents have to be theinnovators.
SPEAKER_02 (28:05):
Okay.
Yeah, and if I may say too,yeah, but something Deborah and
I have been countered far toooften is um um parents telling
us, I don't want to talk to mychild child about suicide
because I'm afraid of puttingideas in their head.
Well, hate to tell you youfolks, but uh those thoughts are
(28:29):
there, you know, and it's justlike with um sex ed and drug
education and and all of that,you know where would you like
them to be getting thisinformation from?
Um you know, a friend of mine,you know, asked me to talk to
her child because their child umadmitted to them one time that
(28:53):
they had a plan for how theywere going to take their own
life if they made that decision.
And yeah.
So I mean these these thoughtsare out there.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Yeah, they are, and and I did want to ask the last
question before we kind of saysome last-minute comments.
The last question is this sinceboth of you are survivors of
suicide attempts, what were thethoughts that were going through
your mind?
SPEAKER_03 (29:27):
I will start because I will be brief, and Brian's
story is so much better.
Um, mine was a simple I'm donewith this, this is it, I'm doing
this.
I washed down as many pills as Icould find with a bottle of
vodka.
And I had been thinking aboutsuicide since age 10.
I had tried it at age 12 andfailed miserably.
(29:51):
So when I finally decided it wasfor the moment, this is it, I'm
doing this, boom, and I did itright then and there.
Because I had everything.
I needed uh to do it like theywere in my fingertips.
So that was my experience.
Now Brian's is a little bitdifferent.
SPEAKER_04 (30:09):
Okay, Brian.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Don't uh don't overpromise so that I can under
deliver there, Deborah.
But uh yeah, it was like I said,I had been struggling with um
you know, uh feelings of uhworthlessness, feeling like I uh
I wasn't really that important.
(30:33):
You know, the looking after mymom was the important thing that
I had to do.
And when that I felt that hadbeen snatched away from me, I
went into free-fall.
Uh but the the morning that Iattempted suicide, uh I woke up
(30:55):
feeling particularly low,feeling particularly hopeless.
Uh and uh thinking, you know,thinking like I'm I was trying,
searching uh for a future thatyou know, hope trying to find
hope for the future and Icouldn't find any.
(31:16):
All I could imagine were futureswhere I was a uh a burden on
other people.
They would resent me for it andI would be miserable.
And so I you know, thought thatI reasonably and rationally came
to the conclusion that um thattaking my own life was the
(31:42):
kindest thing, the best courseof action available to me, uh,
for myself and others.
Um yeah, and now I I had noalcohol or drugs in my system
other than uh coffee and apeanut butter sandwich.
(32:03):
Um and I thought about whatokay, how could I do it?
Well, there's a uh a trainbridge that goes over a uh a
highway, but it's got a a widedirt shoulder, so yeah, and
that's fairly high up, so I'lljust go there and hit myself
(32:23):
over the side and land in thedirt and you know, I won't be in
the way of uh traffic.
They can just you know, they cancome and collect my my body and
I'll just disappear.
Yeah, that's what I wanted.
Uh and uh well I was I was seengoing over the side, I guess.
(32:49):
And so those folks immediatelycalled uh called ambulance for
me.
And uh yeah, I mean I uh Deborahtells me uh the way I related it
to her, I died twice on theoperating page.
Um uh so because I was I had alot of of broken bones and
(33:16):
injuries and blood loss.
And so it was pretty rough, butthey saved me.
I lived and you know what now Iactually think I do think that I
was spared, that God spared me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Well, yeah, when it's not your time, it's not
your time.
And there's a purpose you'remeant to fulfill, and you will
fulfill it by the time yougraduate into I always say
graduate into heaven.
It is a form of graduation.
Life's journey is we all gothrough dark chapters, we all go
through light chapters, and weall learn as we journey through
(33:54):
life, and then we understand ourpurpose as time goes on.
And you found your purpose, itseems, with Deborah Susan.
Um, any last-minute comments youguys want to share with the
listeners of release outrevepurpose?
SPEAKER_03 (34:13):
Um, I just wanted to make one comment.
Um, when Brian told me hisstory, I was I was just shocked
because I'm very typical.
Generally, a suicide attempt isa split-second decision to stop
the pain.
SPEAKER_04 (34:31):
You've had enough, this is it, I'm gonna do it.
Now, there's probably a lot ofprior thought about it, but um
not a whole lot of planning.
SPEAKER_03 (34:42):
Whereas Brian was thinking about this while he was
having his breakfast, having hiscoffee, we have to understand
we're in happily Albert Canada,where in December it's very
brisk.
We have the blueest skies otherthan uh Hawaii.
I think Hawaii is the only placethat has bluer skies than
Alberta.
(35:04):
But he walked for 10 minutes toget to the spot where he wanted
to jump.
SPEAKER_04 (35:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
Ten minutes would have stopped me.
I didn't even know I didn't haveto do it right now, you know.
But he demonstrates that oncethe decision is made, a person
will do it.
So, parents, please step to theplate, teach and talk to your
(35:34):
children about this the same wayyou taught them to cross the
street safely.
SPEAKER_04 (35:42):
I mean last minute um things you want to share,
Brian?
SPEAKER_02 (35:47):
Yeah, um I mean it's it's a matter of perspective.
It was uh it was after I reallyreceived s uh so much love and
support from family and friendsuh and realized that my brain
(36:07):
had been lying to me.
Uh that I really turned aro youknow, it wasn't when I woke up
in the hospital that I thought,oh, thank goodness I'm alive.
I was pretty unsure at thatpoint.
It wasn't until some days lateruh that I realized that, you
(36:28):
know, kind of slapped my faceand oh wow, you know, boy was I
mistaken.
And that's you know, we have uhwe have this our this motto of
wait one more day and thenanother.
Feelings are very powerful andwe don't mean to discount your
(36:50):
emotions when you talk aboutintellectual development.
The thing with feelings is thatthey can change very momentarily
and sometimes they can be basedon you know, very strongly based
in false information.
Uh I have a tendency and havelong had the tendency to
(37:13):
catastrophize based on, youknow, whatever, oh this is gonna
be horrible, and then my brainit goes down the rabbit hole of
imagining just how bad thingscould be and and seeing that as
the inevitable outcome, uh,which is you know not a a good
(37:34):
basis for decision making,especially when it may be the
last decision you ever make.
So we want to help people tohave their their reasoning
ability and their emotions kindof you know work together and
(37:54):
checks and balances.
I know you guys love that downin the US.
Uh so yeah, that's the thing.
Wait one more day.
And you know, that's not justabout suicide, that's about
anything.
Anything big, you know.
Ooh, you know, that's I reallywant that.
(38:16):
$2,000.
Can I afford that?
Ooh, but I really want it, well,maybe sleep on it.
Think about it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Um large decisions really require a time of
reflection.
And and really asking, you know,how however you guys like if if
you are spiritual people askingGod, like, show me, reveal to me
why am I feeling like this, helpme to see my worth, help me to
(38:47):
find my worth in you.
Uh that's something as as kids,as parents, I think it's
important for us to always justkeep it in the forefront of our
mind.
Um, if we wanted to reach youboth, because we're parents to
like young children, how can wereach you?
And what's your website?
SPEAKER_04 (39:09):
Yes, again, the website is survivors of
hopelessness.com.
SPEAKER_03 (39:14):
And at the bottom of that website, there is a button
that you can click on and itwill allow you to email us
directly.
So we answer all of our emailsthat come in, and especially
those that are asking questionsabout the program before they
purchase it or before theyconsider it.
So yeah, please do not hesitate.
SPEAKER_01 (39:38):
Wonderful.
Thank you both so much for beingcourageous enough to share your
story of survival, of suicideattempts, because it's an
important subject right nowacross the world, really, for
our children to reallyunderstand that they are they
(39:58):
have light inside of them, theyhave purpose.
They're here for a reason.
I'm getting emotional becauseI've I've seen so many kids,
I've read so many stories ofchildren taking their life.
It just tugs at my heartstrings.
And I it tugs at my heartstringsfor the parents that are left
behind because they feel soguilty later.
(40:19):
They don't know uh much whatthey can do about it.
But for anyone listening to thisepisode today, please remember
you are a light in this world.
You have a purpose.
It is not something to be takenlightly.
You have a reason why you'rehere on earth.
(40:40):
We thank God for both Brian andDeborah Susan that they stopped
that attempt, but they are heretoday to share their wonderful
mission with parents andchildren and hopefully schools
across Canada.
And if you ever decide to cometo the United States, I know
schools would be more than happyto invite you in through the
(41:01):
doors because bullying is such asuch a topic, uh, such a hot
topic here in school districtsacross the United States.
It is something that alldistricts need a ton of help
with, and and this support isvery much needed.
So thank you both for for yourstories of transformation, for
(41:24):
your purpose and your mission.
And for those listening,remember Matthew 5.14.
SPEAKER_04 (41:31):
Be the light.
Have a wonderful week.
Stay safe.
Love y'all.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance the grandprize drawing to win a
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(42:00):
Worsham herself.
Be sure to head on over torelease out reveal
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
If you've ever struggled with fear, doubt, or
worry and wondering what yourtrue purpose was all about, then
this podcast is for you.
In this show, your host, SylviaWarsham, will interview elite
experts and ordinary people thathave created extraordinary
lives.
So here's your host, SylviaWarsham.
SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
Hey Lightbringers, it's Sylvia Warsham.
SPEAKER_01 (00:34):
Welcome to Release Out Reveal Purpose.
And today is Brian Wardell andDeborah Susan, and they're
talking about a subject that isvery near and dear to my heart:
suicide prevention.
And I find it interesting thetiming because this is a topic
that's been coming up quite abit lately, especially in
teenagers, because in pubertytheir minds start to change, and
(00:58):
that's when the thoughts startto rage, and the rage begins,
right?
The hormonal changes.
And I've been it's been in myheart to talk about this because
I have a little girl, she'salready a pre-tween, if you
will, she's 10 years old, and Iknow that I've read articles,
especially in girls with ADD,and that's something that my
(01:19):
daughter suffers from.
It is something that they'vetalked extensively about because
suicide is a very real issue.
So without further ado, thankyou for joining us today, Brian
and Deborah Susan.
Please tell us how and why thishas been your mission in life.
SPEAKER_03 (01:42):
Well, I will start that as I am a teen suicide
attempt survivor.
Now it was a long, long timeago.
It was back in 1972, but I hadan excellent doctor at the time
who showed me that I had a rightto live, that my the way my
parents treated me was in factwrong.
(02:03):
And that is what put me on apath to wanting to live.
That's a lot of therapy.
(02:24):
Now I didn't go every year,every month, but off and on, um,
1972 to 2016.
And when I received that healingand I was able to think clear,
and it I was so grateful.
And I mean I had now lived 10years with this freedom and none
of that baggage anymore.
(02:45):
And I just felt that if I hadknown or if I had had a format
or a framework to know how tomake right choices and good
choices in life, I would havenever considered suicide.
So I put together the program sothat I could pass it on.
Because you know how they say,if I knew then or I know now, I
(03:08):
would have done thingsdifferently.
Well, my what I say is kindsight is 2020.
So let our past experience beyour best teacher to these
students.
They don't have to go down therabbit hole, they don't have to
experience all the severities ifthey understand life's cycles.
(03:34):
And that's what we developed.
It's called five stages ofintellectual development to keep
it separate from emotional,spiritual, uh, physical.
But we of course address thefeelings because the feelings
are what's behind the decisions,right?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Yeah, we know that the feelings that promote the
reactions, and then thereactions give us the results,
right?
So if we have a reaction of Ineed to kill myself, I will.
And I've actually talked a lotto my daughter and my son about
this because they both sufferfrom my suffer, my my boy
(04:12):
suffers from ADHD.
He actually does have thehyperactivity to it.
My daughter doesn't, but Iremember just reading article
upon article saying whenhormones shift everything and
their minds change, they do havethose thoughts.
And I've I've addressed some ofthese things with my daughter.
There are times that yourthoughts are gonna tell you
(04:34):
something, and that's not meanthat you go and you do it.
And um and peer pressure isanother thing that kids, you
know, they do some sillychallenges and they think, oh,
it's not gonna kill me, it's notgonna do anything to me.
And then lo and behold, it does,it kind of fulfills its its own
destiny.
And we we actually had theopportunity to open up the
(04:56):
subject of suicide justrecently, unfortunately, because
a a preteen girl took her ownlife.
Um, it was a girl that um I didnot know, but in my heart of
hearts as a parent, my heartjust sank when I read the
article because she was known toa good friend of mine, her
(05:18):
daughter had been her bestfriend in elementary school, and
it just hit closer to home.
And I remember just taking theopportunity, I knew my daughter
might hear about the incidentbecause it happened in the same
district as my kids go toschool, and I figured it's a
great opportunity for me to justdiscuss this and take the shame
(05:40):
out of discussing somethingbecause I know that culturally
speaking, sometimes people theydon't want to talk about these
topics because they're taboo intheir mind.
Brian, can you share how youguys um remove that taboo from
suicide?
SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
Well, I mean, it's a matter of um giving people
permission to talk about it in asense.
I mean you know, by talkingabout it sometimes just bringing
up a subject sometimes invitespeople to then uh speak of their
(06:19):
own experiences or thingsthey've heard.
I definitely found that.
Um also giving people thevocabulary that perhaps they
lack uh is a uh a big part of ittoo.
The they the royal they um don'tknow uh don't know how to
(06:45):
express these uh in thesefeelings, but if you can if you
can give them a vocabulary forit, all of a sudden they come
pouring out.
Uh so that's something that wetry to do is speak openly,
matter-of-factly, uh but alsowith a little bit of warmth and
(07:08):
humor and humanity as well.
SPEAKER_04 (07:11):
Humanity, I think, is the key word there.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
It's just making it to where we're all connected,
you know, and we all have faceddifficult chapters, if you will.
I know that if I didn't have mymother close to me in the years
that I was being extensivelybullied in high school, it would
have led possibly to a to maybea suicide attempt.
(07:37):
Um, but she was so close to meand she just stayed close to me
and and was my my one truefriend throughout it all.
I had teachers that wouldprotect me too in their
classrooms because they knew ofthe bully.
They knew um, and despite goingto administration, nothing was
ever done.
(07:58):
And and I know how tell me,Brian, because I don't know you
very well.
I heard Deborah's story.
How are you personally connectedto this mission?
SPEAKER_02 (08:08):
Well, uh, I attempted suicide in 2019.
Um I had been a caregiver for mymother uh for a number of years,
and I had struggled withdepression and anxiety my whole
life and lacking a feeling ofpurpose and belonging, and being
(08:30):
a caregiver for my mother in inthat I found that purpose.
But then she was diagnosed withterminal cancer after getting
weaker and weaker, and uh thatfeeling that purpose yanked away
from me and not being able toimagine a future that I would
(08:53):
want to be a part of, I made thedecision to end my own life.
Um thankfully I survived.
I'm in a wheelchair and missingmy right leg, but um in a better
mental state than I was fordecades.
Uh and so um uh now Deborahcontacted me because she was
(09:20):
friends with a woman who hadbeen friends with my mother and
so she heard of my situationthrough that, she contacted me
and we spoke for a bit and shesaid, Hey, would you be you
know, do you want to use yourexperience to help stop other
people?
And it's like, yeah, that's I'dbeen thinking I wanted to do
(09:43):
that.
And so that's my connection.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
And I find it interesting because I'm I'm a
woman, like a faith, and I doknow that our purpose is our
divine purpose.
The reason why we're here onthis earth doesn't come
linearly, like we sometimes gothrough these dark chapters for
a purpose, and now we are put ina position to be able to relate
(10:11):
to the feelings that these kidsare feeling or these adults are
feeling, that desperation, thatoverwhelm, that just the
thoughts just overwhelm you.
And if you do suffer fromanxiety or OCD, we know that
thoughts just come out ofnowhere, and there's like not
much we can do to truly.
(10:31):
I mean, we can do there's stepsthat we can do, and there's
therapies that we can apply tokind of minimize the amount of
thoughts and how we listen toour thoughts and whether we
listen or talk ourselves into adifferent state.
But regardless of that, I'm I'mgrateful that that Deborah Susan
came into your life and said,Hey, I think you have a purpose
(10:55):
here.
Do you guys see this as beingyour divine purpose and what
you'll do until you graduateinto heaven?
Or is there something else thatyou guys are working on
currently?
SPEAKER_03 (11:08):
The short answer is absolutely yes.
Uh, we definitely do because Ihad just been thinking, I put
the program together, and I waslooking at it and considering
promotional and advertising, andI thought to myself, you know,
to present this program, Ireally should have a male-female
balance.
(11:30):
And I'm thinking, nobody find aman who first of all experienced
and survived suicide, and whowould be willing to talk about
that.
No.
And and would would be willingto work with me on this.
And I'm asking like the universethis question when uh my my
(11:54):
friend Rosemary called me andtold me about Brian.
And I said, Okay then.
And I walked into his room, andit was like something in the
back of my mind said, There heis.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
Yeah, we usually feel it in our gut.
Like it's an instinct, it's it'sintuitive hit that we get on
this is the person we've talked.
Like, I talk to God every day,and it's like, send me someone
I'm I'm here to bless today.
Just make it very clear for me.
And yesterday he made it realcrystal clear, like who I was
meant to reach out to.
(12:28):
And I came back from thatmeeting, and I remember sitting
with my husband.
I had skipped dinner because Isaid, you know, this may be
long.
And I got back and I was just II'm someone that allows the Holy
Spirit to kind of speak throughme.
There are words that have comeout of my mouth that are not
mine.
One time I remember talking atthe end of one of my interviews,
(12:51):
like as a guest.
At the end, they said, you know,what additional comments do you
want to say?
And I just remember it was suchan out-of-body experience.
And the words were about suicideand about reminding people of
their light, that they're herefor a purpose, and that their
light is very much needed.
And if they're evencontemplating suicide, that is
(13:13):
not of God, this is not what Hewants, and they barely serve a
purpose here on earth.
So I'm I came back yesterday andwas just like I had had another
out-of-body experience, and itwas so amazing because that
intuition, when we when we getpulled in a certain direction,
(13:34):
that's what we're meant to do inour life.
And that's why we are in thismoment in time talking about
suicide prevention.
Why?
Because there's so many kids outthere that this is the only
solution they see.
And I and why this is sopassionate for me is that that
because there's so many bullyingcases, and you and you read
(13:56):
these cases, it's heartbreaking.
Yes.
Heartbreaking.
Are you guys working withschools to talk about suicide
prevention currently?
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
Or not as yet.
We are definitely talking to thepowers that be that would make
that possible, but yeah, thereis a process that has to be
adhered to uh for anything to gointo uh we are in Calvary,
Alberta, Canada.
So we're in Alberta, yeah.
So there's processes, everyplace has it, and so you just
(14:30):
have to follow that and theirtiming and their pacing.
Um, but what I will say in in uhrelation to what you were
expressing there, we um as wellrecognize the third dimension,
which is the spiritualdimension.
However, our program is designedfor students.
(14:52):
This is people as young as ageeight.
And so to keep it crisp andfocused and to give them
something that they can workwith.
We have a physical workbook thatthey can write in, draw on, do
whatever with that goes with theinstructional video.
(15:13):
And that is just a component, asmall component that they can
use.
Now, the spiritual experiencethey have, their age, you know,
we we also talk to adults andand teenagers, uh, 19,
20-year-old people.
So everybody has their ownindividual experience regarding
(15:34):
the spiritual, etc.
And we want to leave that withthem.
All we want to do is providethis simple tool.
It's like, and and we havesimplified it so much.
Uh, it's called the five stagesof intellectual development
again to keep it separate fromall the other uh uh dimensions.
(15:56):
And yeah, for students andparents to use as a means of
communication, it opens theconversation, it gives solid
grounding to the thoughtpatterns and how to deal with
those thought patterns and thefeeling.
(16:18):
I'm sorry, go ahead.
I was just gonna say, as far asbullying goes, now Brian, that
is his area of expertise.
He suffered a great deal ofbullying.
So um he has been a perfectbalance for our uh presentation
in that regard.
SPEAKER_01 (16:35):
I'd like to shift the conversation that way
because I know there's parentsout there that might be
listening who have uhpre-pubescent children and who
might have some of these othercombinations.
ADD is a very common umaffliction here in the United
States.
I don't know about Canada, buthere for sure.
(16:57):
And so, Brian, I really I'minterested in hearing more about
what tips can you provideparents to get the conversation
started with their children.
SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Well, quite remarkably, um there is a lady
that I worked with, and uhDeborah and I uh she has a
podcast.
Deborah and I shared our programwith her, and when she
introduced that um when sheintroduced that program to her
(17:32):
children, uh her son immediatelysaid, Oh, I think my friend
so-and-so should take this withus because uh he just recently
attempted suicide for the fourthtime and the co- mother the
mother the co-worker of mine anduh oh yeah, you know, because
(17:59):
he's he's gay and his boyfriend,um you know, like virtual online
boyfriend had just recently uhtaken his own microphone.
And like my coworker knew noneof that.
And so Jeff, like I I mentionedbefore, sometimes just
(18:23):
introducing the subject and uhcan create uh the most the most
incredible opportunities to haveconversations on these things.
Uh again, not most of the timenot happy, cheerful, fluffy
(18:44):
conversations that uh we inNorth America typically enjoy,
but very important ones.
And uh so yeah, uh I mean peoplehave asked me plenty of times
how so you know, if you don'tmind me asking, how'd you lose
your leg?
Was it a uh you know, uh atraffic accident or something?
(19:06):
And I tell them, well no, it wasactually a suicide attempt.
And oh, you know, I attemptedsuicide back when I was twenty
or um you know, I recently lostsomebody, or you know, all of a
sudden it just it seems to, youknow, it opens the floodgates
(19:27):
and all of a sudden people starttalking about this.
So when I talk about givingpermission, um you know, they
people are taking theseopportunities to have these
discussions.
And sometimes children will openup about these things when the
(19:48):
topic is broached, but if it'snot, all of that just stays and
I mean that's that's not good.
SPEAKER_04 (19:58):
Fonts under pressure often explode in time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Well, yeah, no, at least just broaching the
subject.
I just know that some peoplereally struggle with even
broaching the subject.
So if they are struggling withthat, Brian or Deborah Susan,
I'm not sure who wants to takethis question, what other tips
can you provide them?
Because I know that, well,that's my question.
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
Well, I would like to say that our website is a
good place to go.
Uh, it's called uh it'ssurvivorsofopelessness.com.
And at the very bottom of thatwebsite, there is a music video
that is more uh inclined towardsintervention than prevention.
(20:50):
But our program is what we callpure prevention because we are
administering that programbefore they have the thoughts or
before the emotions, thepubescent emotions start to come
into play and overwhelm.
unknown (21:08):
So on that website, it talks about our program.
SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
You can see a trailer, uh there's also copies
of the workbooks, you can seethe workbooks, and it's very
affordable.
It's$50 for the one-hourinstructional video and three
workbooks, one parent copy andtwo student copies.
(21:33):
And you can download those rightaway if you want to on a PDF
file.
Or you can notify us and we willsend you uh hard copies, which
we do recommend.
The hard copies are so nice.
They open up to a 11 by 17format, and uh so they're nice
and big, lots of room fordrawing and taking notes and
(21:56):
things, and it just allows thestudent and the participant to
handle the information, toactually touch it and feel it,
and and include more senses thanjust listening, right?
And discussion as well.
We recommend that you showsegments at a time and then
discuss it with your children,discuss that segment.
(22:16):
What did they think and what didthey want to write in the
workbook?
SPEAKER_04 (22:19):
So what have you found um to be true about the
work you've been doing inregards to where are the common
themes you're seeing with thesekids?
Why are they attempting suicide?
Brian, did you want to takethat?
(22:40):
Because I've been talking a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
Um I mean it's the world is uh more is is faster
paced and more stressful um orat least there are more
stressors than there have everbeen.
The introduction of uh socialmedia creates an added pressure
(23:11):
um in in many ways.
Uh one that presents aninaccurate uh view of life
because you get these snapshotsthat people typically post when
things are at their best and youknow, uh the way our brains
work, we tend to perceive thatas being normal then.
(23:34):
And uh you know, we see how wefail to measure up to that.
Uh the fact too that because,you know, we talked about
bullying or you know, thesituation with bullying, imagine
how much worse that would havebeen if you couldn't even escape
that at home.
(23:55):
Because you go online, you know,to to your social network,
whatever that is, and people arebad mouthing you and and and
slandering you and and tellingyou these horrible things, uh,
even there as well.
(24:15):
So you can't get away from it.
Um and just yeah, there's justso there's so much of
everything.
Um and yeah, the pressure is onthese poor children.
SPEAKER_04 (24:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:32):
And uh well, you know, whatever other factors
there may be as well, but thoseare big ones.
SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
I remember the uh the girl that took her own life.
There were some threads that Iread that said she was a bright,
straight A student, she was verywell liked by her peers.
Um, but then in recent months,her parents had noticed some
changes.
Can you speak more of whatchanges parents need to be on
(25:05):
the lookout for to maybe preventuh an attempt?
SPEAKER_03 (25:13):
Well, parents today, how you know, households are
very busy, and quite oftenparents and children are a
little more than ships passingin the night when you're taking
them to their extracurricularactivities.
I know we go through that herequite a bit.
But what I would recommend is ifthere's change in behavior, uh
(25:36):
that is the first thing.
If a child who was very activeand gregarious and outgoing is
suddenly withdrawn and spendinga lot more time in their room by
themselves, they're not asinvolved with the family
anymore.
Uh that's that's an obvious one.
But what's really uh even moreimportant is that nine times out
(26:01):
of ten you won't see it.
Parents, I have heard so manytimes, and Brian can acknowledge
this too, we didn't see itcoming.
Because they are active, they'rethe star of the football team,
they're the top cheerleader,everything is going so
(26:21):
wonderfully, and they'restepping back and thinking, how
am I doing this?
Because school sets you up tosucceed if you are involved, and
it offers all theseopportunities to be in a band,
to be in a play, to be in asports team.
And if you are good atsomething, then they support,
(26:43):
you know, and you just getpushed into this, and and
suddenly you go, it's calledimposter syndrome, and you go, I
don't know how I'm doing this.
How can I keep this going?
So there will be no change, youwill not see a difference until
boom, they're gone.
So you have to be the innovator,the parents have to have the
(27:08):
adult strength to approach theirchildren about this subject, and
our program makes that reallyeasy, really easy if you go to
the website and you can getstarted there.
So if I had a magic bullet or aquick fix that I could say, when
(27:29):
you see this, do that.
No, when your child at age 10already, you are seeing preteen,
right?
That's time to start talkingabout these things.
unknown (27:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
And introduce you taught your child to cross the
street safely.
Yeah.
Who told you to do that?
Did you wait until your childran out into the street before
you're talking?
No.
You know they have to be taughthow to do that.
This is the same thing.
Parents have to be theinnovators.
SPEAKER_02 (28:05):
Okay.
Yeah, and if I may say too,yeah, but something Deborah and
I have been countered far toooften is um um parents telling
us, I don't want to talk to mychild child about suicide
because I'm afraid of puttingideas in their head.
Well, hate to tell you youfolks, but uh those thoughts are
(28:29):
there, you know, and it's justlike with um sex ed and drug
education and and all of that,you know where would you like
them to be getting thisinformation from?
Um you know, a friend of mine,you know, asked me to talk to
her child because their child umadmitted to them one time that
(28:53):
they had a plan for how theywere going to take their own
life if they made that decision.
And yeah.
So I mean these these thoughtsare out there.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
Yeah, they are, and and I did want to ask the last
question before we kind of saysome last-minute comments.
The last question is this sinceboth of you are survivors of
suicide attempts, what were thethoughts that were going through
your mind?
SPEAKER_03 (29:27):
I will start because I will be brief, and Brian's
story is so much better.
Um, mine was a simple I'm donewith this, this is it, I'm doing
this.
I washed down as many pills as Icould find with a bottle of
vodka.
And I had been thinking aboutsuicide since age 10.
I had tried it at age 12 andfailed miserably.
(29:51):
So when I finally decided it wasfor the moment, this is it, I'm
doing this, boom, and I did itright then and there.
Because I had everything.
I needed uh to do it like theywere in my fingertips.
So that was my experience.
Now Brian's is a little bitdifferent.
SPEAKER_04 (30:09):
Okay, Brian.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Don't uh don't overpromise so that I can under
deliver there, Deborah.
But uh yeah, it was like I said,I had been struggling with um
you know, uh feelings of uhworthlessness, feeling like I uh
I wasn't really that important.
(30:33):
You know, the looking after mymom was the important thing that
I had to do.
And when that I felt that hadbeen snatched away from me, I
went into free-fall.
Uh but the the morning that Iattempted suicide, uh I woke up
(30:55):
feeling particularly low,feeling particularly hopeless.
Uh and uh thinking, you know,thinking like I'm I was trying,
searching uh for a future thatyou know, hope trying to find
hope for the future and Icouldn't find any.
(31:16):
All I could imagine were futureswhere I was a uh a burden on
other people.
They would resent me for it andI would be miserable.
And so I you know, thought thatI reasonably and rationally came
to the conclusion that um thattaking my own life was the
(31:42):
kindest thing, the best courseof action available to me, uh,
for myself and others.
Um yeah, and now I I had noalcohol or drugs in my system
other than uh coffee and apeanut butter sandwich.
(32:03):
Um and I thought about whatokay, how could I do it?
Well, there's a uh a trainbridge that goes over a uh a
highway, but it's got a a widedirt shoulder, so yeah, and
that's fairly high up, so I'lljust go there and hit myself
(32:23):
over the side and land in thedirt and you know, I won't be in
the way of uh traffic.
They can just you know, they cancome and collect my my body and
I'll just disappear.
Yeah, that's what I wanted.
Uh and uh well I was I was seengoing over the side, I guess.
(32:49):
And so those folks immediatelycalled uh called ambulance for
me.
And uh yeah, I mean I uh Deborahtells me uh the way I related it
to her, I died twice on theoperating page.
Um uh so because I was I had alot of of broken bones and
(33:16):
injuries and blood loss.
And so it was pretty rough, butthey saved me.
I lived and you know what now Iactually think I do think that I
was spared, that God spared me.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Well, yeah, when it's not your time, it's not
your time.
And there's a purpose you'remeant to fulfill, and you will
fulfill it by the time yougraduate into I always say
graduate into heaven.
It is a form of graduation.
Life's journey is we all gothrough dark chapters, we all go
through light chapters, and weall learn as we journey through
(33:54):
life, and then we understand ourpurpose as time goes on.
And you found your purpose, itseems, with Deborah Susan.
Um, any last-minute comments youguys want to share with the
listeners of release outrevepurpose?
SPEAKER_03 (34:13):
Um, I just wanted to make one comment.
Um, when Brian told me hisstory, I was I was just shocked
because I'm very typical.
Generally, a suicide attempt isa split-second decision to stop
the pain.
SPEAKER_04 (34:31):
You've had enough, this is it, I'm gonna do it.
Now, there's probably a lot ofprior thought about it, but um
not a whole lot of planning.
SPEAKER_03 (34:42):
Whereas Brian was thinking about this while he was
having his breakfast, having hiscoffee, we have to understand
we're in happily Albert Canada,where in December it's very
brisk.
We have the blueest skies otherthan uh Hawaii.
I think Hawaii is the only placethat has bluer skies than
Alberta.
(35:04):
But he walked for 10 minutes toget to the spot where he wanted
to jump.
SPEAKER_04 (35:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
Ten minutes would have stopped me.
I didn't even know I didn't haveto do it right now, you know.
But he demonstrates that oncethe decision is made, a person
will do it.
So, parents, please step to theplate, teach and talk to your
(35:34):
children about this the same wayyou taught them to cross the
street safely.
SPEAKER_04 (35:42):
I mean last minute um things you want to share,
Brian?
SPEAKER_02 (35:47):
Yeah, um I mean it's it's a matter of perspective.
It was uh it was after I reallyreceived s uh so much love and
support from family and friendsuh and realized that my brain
(36:07):
had been lying to me.
Uh that I really turned aro youknow, it wasn't when I woke up
in the hospital that I thought,oh, thank goodness I'm alive.
I was pretty unsure at thatpoint.
It wasn't until some days lateruh that I realized that, you
(36:28):
know, kind of slapped my faceand oh wow, you know, boy was I
mistaken.
And that's you know, we have uhwe have this our this motto of
wait one more day and thenanother.
Feelings are very powerful andwe don't mean to discount your
(36:50):
emotions when you talk aboutintellectual development.
The thing with feelings is thatthey can change very momentarily
and sometimes they can be basedon you know, very strongly based
in false information.
Uh I have a tendency and havelong had the tendency to
(37:13):
catastrophize based on, youknow, whatever, oh this is gonna
be horrible, and then my brainit goes down the rabbit hole of
imagining just how bad thingscould be and and seeing that as
the inevitable outcome, uh,which is you know not a a good
(37:34):
basis for decision making,especially when it may be the
last decision you ever make.
So we want to help people tohave their their reasoning
ability and their emotions kindof you know work together and
(37:54):
checks and balances.
I know you guys love that downin the US.
Uh so yeah, that's the thing.
Wait one more day.
And you know, that's not justabout suicide, that's about
anything.
Anything big, you know.
Ooh, you know, that's I reallywant that.
(38:16):
$2,000.
Can I afford that?
Ooh, but I really want it, well,maybe sleep on it.
Think about it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Um large decisions really require a time of
reflection.
And and really asking, you know,how however you guys like if if
you are spiritual people askingGod, like, show me, reveal to me
why am I feeling like this, helpme to see my worth, help me to
(38:47):
find my worth in you.
Uh that's something as as kids,as parents, I think it's
important for us to always justkeep it in the forefront of our
mind.
Um, if we wanted to reach youboth, because we're parents to
like young children, how can wereach you?
And what's your website?
SPEAKER_04 (39:09):
Yes, again, the website is survivors of
hopelessness.com.
SPEAKER_03 (39:14):
And at the bottom of that website, there is a button
that you can click on and itwill allow you to email us
directly.
So we answer all of our emailsthat come in, and especially
those that are asking questionsabout the program before they
purchase it or before theyconsider it.
So yeah, please do not hesitate.
SPEAKER_01 (39:38):
Wonderful.
Thank you both so much for beingcourageous enough to share your
story of survival, of suicideattempts, because it's an
important subject right nowacross the world, really, for
our children to reallyunderstand that they are they
(39:58):
have light inside of them, theyhave purpose.
They're here for a reason.
I'm getting emotional becauseI've I've seen so many kids,
I've read so many stories ofchildren taking their life.
It just tugs at my heartstrings.
And I it tugs at my heartstringsfor the parents that are left
behind because they feel soguilty later.
(40:19):
They don't know uh much whatthey can do about it.
But for anyone listening to thisepisode today, please remember
you are a light in this world.
You have a purpose.
It is not something to be takenlightly.
You have a reason why you'rehere on earth.
(40:40):
We thank God for both Brian andDeborah Susan that they stopped
that attempt, but they are heretoday to share their wonderful
mission with parents andchildren and hopefully schools
across Canada.
And if you ever decide to cometo the United States, I know
schools would be more than happyto invite you in through the
(41:01):
doors because bullying is such asuch a topic, uh, such a hot
topic here in school districtsacross the United States.
It is something that alldistricts need a ton of help
with, and and this support isvery much needed.
So thank you both for for yourstories of transformation, for
(41:24):
your purpose and your mission.
And for those listening,remember Matthew 5.14.
SPEAKER_04 (41:31):
Be the light.
Have a wonderful week.
Stay safe.
Love y'all.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
So that's it for today's episode of Release Doubt
Reveal Purpose.
Head on over to iTunes orwherever you listen and
subscribe to the show.
One lucky listener every singleweek who posts a review on
iTunes.
We'll win a chance the grandprize drawing to win a
twenty-five thousand dollarprivate VIP day with Sylvia
(42:00):
Worsham herself.
Be sure to head on over torelease out reveal
purposepodcast.com and pick up afree copy of Sylvia's gift and
join us on the next episode.
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