May 21, 2025 • 64 mins
"My son Zev was special." It’s a sentiment many bereaved parents will share about their child who was niftar. But Zevi wasn’t just special because of his love for people and life, his love for shul, and his intuitive, on-target perceptions. He was special because he was special needs.His mother, Miriam Kahn, dedicated her life to her beloved Zev. Whatever she could do for him, she did—and somehow, whatever she couldn’t do for him, she also did. Zev was very young when his parents divorced, but somehow, he understood that his mother could use space and love. And he gave it to her.
He wasn’t just beloved to his mother, but to his sisters as well. Zev was a valuable and delicious part of their lives. And as his sisters married and became mothers, their children were never embarrassed or uncomfortable around their Uncle Zev—because he was Zev.
When Zev was in his upper 20s, living at home wasn’t possible for him anymore. It was with great sadness and a lot of tears that she moved him into a home. But she constantly visited him and continued to shower him with love.
And now that she had some time to herself, she went on her first vacation since Zev was born. It was there, in the hotel early one morning, that she got a phone call from the home.
They told her, “Everything is not okay.”
“What does that mean?” Miriam yelled. “He’s okay—like alive, right?”
“I’m so sorry. A few hours ago, he was sleeping peacefully… and then he suddenly was niftar.”
My special son with special needs.
I love him so much. I miss him so much.
Baruch Hashem, I have grandsons named after him. He lives on in our family. In our hearts and minds, he will never die.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by
Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought toyou by Mayrim.
Mayrim is an organizationdedicated to supporting families
who have experienced the lossof a child.
It was founded by EloiNishmat's, Nechama Liba and
Miriam Holman.
Despite her illness, Miriamdevoted herself to addressing
(00:22):
the needs of parents andsiblings grappling with the
immense pain of losing a child.
She felt this loss deeply,having experienced it firsthand
when her older sister, NechamaLiba, passed away.
Mehrim continues to uplift andexpand on the work Miriam began,
a mission carried forward byher parents with great
dedication.
(00:43):
If you have any questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, please email us
at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg.
Hi everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thank you so much for joining me here on the Relief
From Grief podcast with Mayrim.
Today, mrs Miriam Khan, wholost a special, neat son, is
here.
So thank you so so much forcoming on and I'm so excited and
I know you have so much to sayso excited to get started.
I have a lot to say, okay, soshould we start off a little bit
(01:19):
about wait first.
Could you tell us your son'sname?
Okay, my son's name was Zev.
We called him Zev.
He was Zev Zevi His Hebrew namewhich is important because my
grandson is named for him.
His Hebrew name was Netanel Zev.
We knew he was going to be bornwith special needs, so we
needed to give him a veryspecial name.
(01:40):
Wow, that's so nice.
Okay, so should we talk alittle bit about when he was
born?
If you knew about his special,you just told me you knew about
his special needs the otherchildren why don't we go into
that whole story?
We got it.
So my son would be turning 33next this Shabbos.
Oh, wow.
And he passed when he was 30.
(02:01):
He passed July 4th 2022.
Hey, thomas, shocking.
It was very, very shocking.
So when I found out I wasexpecting him, we had just moved
into this house from anotherhouse a few blocks away and I
had at the time a four-year-oldand a two-year-old, so it was
(02:24):
busy house and we moved while Iwas pregnant.
I didn't know anything yet.
And then there's again.
This is 30 years ago.
I'm going to sound like areally old lady, but 30 years
ago they did this test.
They probably still do itcalled the AFP3.
It's a test.
It's a blood test, it's nothinginvasive.
It was a test for spina bifidaand I had that test because I
(02:47):
had it with everybody else andI'm a nurse and I'm basically a
scientist, so more informationfor me is always better, even if
we wouldn't do anything aboutit.
Anyway, that test came back alittle funky, a lot funky and
yeah, it was again, but I justthought it was just standard,
(03:07):
whatever.
And they sent me for anemergency amnio because it was
already I was running out oftime.
Should I choose to abort thefetus, which wasn't an option?
But the doctors treat you likeyou might.
The doctors treat you like youmight.
(03:28):
So they rushed the amnio andthen the results came back and
he had some sort of a geneticflip where they had at the time
really very limited informationon what it could look like, but
based on what they knew and whatthese type of syndromes, it was
a syndrome, not a name.
It doesn't look good.
(03:50):
And then I had like a lot ofsonograms all the time and they
didn't feel that he would beborn alive.
So what was interesting wasback then we didn't have
internet I told you I'm going tosound like the oldest lady ever
.
Well, I could just tell all thelisteners what I told you before
.
You look like you're 30.
63, 63.
(04:10):
Wow, yeah, my daughter's 37.
Wow, okay, so you really don'tlook like that at all.
Thank you, thank you.
I say I drink a lot of waterand I eat pretty well most of
the time.
So more information for me wasalways better.
I lost my train of thought butwe'll get oh.
So they said no, no, it doesn'tlook good, we don't really
(04:33):
think the baby is going to beborn alive.
So back in those days we wentto the geneticists and everybody
thought it was a terrible ideato continue with the pregnancy.
I back then I don't know wheremy Emuna came from.
I grew up in a modern Orthodoxhome I am still modern Orthodox
with like a big piece of if it'smeant to be, it's going to be.
(04:54):
If it's meant to be, it's goingto be.
And I kind of felt if it'smeant for me to have a special
needs child, then I'm going tohave it.
One way or another I'm going tohave it.
And he was born fine.
Let's just say he was bornrelatively fine.
He had some GI issues but birthwas normal.
He was born three weeks early.
(05:14):
My husband was actually awedding singer.
He was at a wedding.
He had to leave the wedding.
It was a little drama, buteverything was fine.
We came home from the hospitalfine.
He didn't look quite right.
They pointed out some featuresthat looked syndromy and he
started to have a lot of GIissues.
He had a lot of reflux.
He was vomiting a lot like alot, a lot of medical issues.
He had surgery when he was fourmonths old and many, many
(05:37):
surgeries, many GI surgeries,many hospitalizations.
When he was 11, he had veryextensive back surgery because
he had horrendous scoliosisHorrendous and it was affecting
his breathing and digestion.
But they were not shy abouttelling us that he could die
(05:57):
during surgery and it wouldn'tbe shocking.
They were not even shy about it.
Anyway, he did great.
It was a year of recovery andunfortunately, soon after he
recovered, I found out that Iwas sick, so his surgery was in
2003.
I was sick in 2004.
Hashem, 20 years.
It's going to be 21 years ago.
(06:18):
I thank God every day.
This is what was meant for me.
So the girls, one of the mainfocuses that I had.
And it was complicated.
I had nurses in the house.
He was tube fed for many, manyyears.
Then we were able to take outthe tube, but he only ate purees
.
He was a very involved but andthis is the piece that is very
(06:41):
hard to describe if you didn'tknow him, he was the Heverman he
was.
Everybody in the community knewhim.
I couldn't get if I was evergoing out and walking past the
shul.
We could not get past the shul.
He's high-fiving everybody,he's hugging everybody.
He was the Heverman In hiswheelchair.
He knew everybody, wow.
(07:03):
And his bar mitzvah was purim2005, I I suppose.
Yeah, 2005.
There was a quiet everybody isstill talking about, still to
this day.
It was the quietest arshul hadever been was when he got his
aliyah.
He was able to an aliyah.
He was able to An Aaliyah.
(07:24):
Yeah, he was able to.
The whole of the family came infrom Israel.
It was a very big event and mybrother Alain and my brother Ed
McGill, and everybody in thefamily got the Aaliyahs.
But he was able to get anAaliyah and it was quite a
moment, quite a moment.
Wow, that's amazing.
I wow, that's amazing.
(07:49):
I can picture what you'resaying, I can envision it,
because I look there's some,let's say, down syndrome kids
that I've seen and everyone justloves them, they know everyone,
they're very friendly.
So I I could really, you know,picture what you're saying.
And he had a very big intuitionabout feelings and people.
I got divorced almost 17 yearsago and he knew that there were
(08:09):
weird things going on.
He couldn't articulate it.
He spoke, believe me, he ranthe show here, but he knew that
things were going on and if heever saw me crying or sad, his
intuition was incredible.
He would just come over andgive me a hug, wow.
And he would say be happy, behappy, mommy.
(08:32):
Wow, how old was he at thispoint?
It was throughout.
It was throughout years andyears, and before Shabbos he
would I still have this beforeShabbos, he would like call out
light in the fridge, the light,the?
Yeah, wow, wow, yeah, all right, and what about your, your
(08:54):
other girls?
Your, they like?
Oh, the hardest thing I everhad to do in my whole life was
call them the day that he didn'twake up.
They live near you.
No, they live near you.
Nobody lives near me.
Tova's in Israel, she's in Ramat, bechemesh in Gimel, and my
other daughter is currently inCleveland.
(09:16):
But getting back to Israel.
So I'm traveling, safdie, I goto Cleveland, I go to Israel.
Bar HaShem I somehow managed togo when he was alive.
I go a little bit more now.
I don't have to hire anybody.
So that's a little, you know,bittersweet.
And when I used to come homefrom all my trips, I used to
sneak into the house if he wasasleep, if I landed at you know
(09:38):
five, six in the morning, but hehad eagle hearing and he'd yell
from his room Hi, mom Wow.
Yeah, he was very.
I had a pair of red shoes.
I mean, I still have them.
I will never throw them out,probably, but every time I put
them on, every time and they'relike they're before COVID shoes,
(10:01):
so that's over five years,seven years old, and every time
I put them on.
Nice shoes, mom Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
He was a lot.
He was a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And he required a lot of care.
But he told you what to do, hemade it easy.
He was a lot of, he was a lotof fun.
He was a, he was a lot of fun.
Was it hard for him?
Did he realize when he reached,let's say, I don't know
marriageable age, that he can'tget married?
No, oh, so at least that no.
And he didn't realize that hedidn't have quote, unquote
(10:36):
friends, because and it'sinteresting we always had
volunteers from the community,people coming in and from
friendship circle, from thecommunity people coming in and
from friendship circle, just myfriend's sons.
Till they were, till they wentto Israel, they would come in
and he would say to me and theywould often come, sunday was a
harder day and he would say tome are the friends coming today,
friends coming today?
So he didn't really sort ofvery strong sense of who he was
(11:01):
and who people were to him.
But it wasn't.
He didn't know, he just didn'tknow.
And in the beginning he youknow, when he did go the summer,
that I was sick, I had a lot oftreatment, he went to Hask, but
he was young, he was 12.
And he hadn't yet, like, seenmy daughters coming and going
(11:24):
camp Israel thing.
So it was a very strange thingfor him.
Then it evolved that they'recoming and going and coming and
going, and I mean they're biggirls.
So it was a whole different, awhole different.
He really didn't and he didn'tknow that.
He didn't go places.
He didn't know, he didn'treally understand that, despite
how intuitive he was, but heknew things.
(11:44):
One of his therapists wasasking me it was January time
and you couldn't tell him inadvance if anybody was coming or
if there was a trip, because hedidn't have a sense of time
either.
So everything was tomorrow.
So his therapist said to mewhen are you going to Israel
next?
And I knew that my next was mydaughter and her family coming
(12:08):
in from Israel.
So I said and I actually toldthe story at his Leviah.
I said I tried to think of acode way to say it.
I said the big one is coming infor the spring holiday.
She leaves, leaves, goes outthe door.
In two seconds he picks up hisiPad, calls his father and Abba
(12:32):
Tova's coming for Pesach.
There are a lot of stories likethat, but that one was the most
striking because what?
Wow, wow.
See, he was fun.
He was just like a fun day.
When did you realize that he wasmentally special needs From the
(12:52):
beginning?
Oh yes, in the beginning hespoke late.
Everything he did was late,everything was delayed.
He walked late, he spoke lateand in the end he walked with a
walker.
But he always understoodeverything and he knew the girls
.
My girls were very.
They looked alike and I dressedthem alike and they had the
same hair.
So their names are Tova andShira, but his speech therapist
used to yell at me to stopdressing them alike and change
(13:14):
their hair because he used tocall them Tova Shira like they
were one entity.
I have identical twin sons,maishi and Dovi.
When they were younger theywere just Maishi Dovi to people
because no one knew who theywere.
So you're either Maishi or Dovi, so we'll just call both of you
Maishi Dovi.
That's great.
That is great and that's whatit was for him.
(13:35):
It was.
That's what it was Wow.
And they came and they went andhe called them and FaceTime and
they visited and he just theysurprised him.
Some of the pictures I have andthe videos I have of the
surprises were crazy Wow.
So what happened that made youmove them into an assisted
(13:57):
living, so it was something thatwas eventually going to have to
happen.
A few things happened at aroundthe same time.
My father passed away actually14 months before my son, and it
was around that time that myson's father, my ex, was having
a lot of medical challenges andI really depended on him.
(14:19):
I went to Israel a lot, baruchHashem a million times.
I went to Israel a lot and Imade arrangements for during the
week my mom used to sleep herein my house.
He had a handicap room in theback over there and then my
mother couldn't.
She was getting older, my dadwasn't well and then he passed
away and his father could nolonger really handle him over
(14:43):
the weekend.
So it became because there wasa parent that was, let's say,
disabled for lack of a betterword we got moved up on this
endless, endless waiting listand it was very difficult, but
it was time anyway.
He had been home with me fromCOVID.
(15:04):
I kept him home before like aweek before anybody else stayed
home, because I was very nervousabout his asthma.
He had a lot of asthmahospitalizations.
He got a lot of flu.
Every time he got flu he endedup asthmatic oxygen the whole
thing.
So I was very nervous.
So he was home with me fornearly two years Home, he had
(15:24):
home.
His day had kept Zoom open forhim.
I wouldn't send him because ifanybody got sick I was terrified
and he was home.
We were home together.
I got extra help.
I had an aid for him during theday when I worked and then that
was the afternoon, from when hegot home from his program till
bedtime and during COVID andnearly two years till January,
(15:50):
he had a morning aid also.
They were fabulous.
I was very, very lucky.
I was very.
I don't for one second.
It was really minishamayim.
They were really unbelievable.
And now my trips are gettingcompromised.
I could barely be my father washe passed away on a Saturday
night my brothers came in.
They live in Israel, they camein from Israel and that was like
(16:12):
the last time that he wasreally able to take care of my
son.
And then when I sat Shiva, hetook him for Shabbos.
But it was really it was.
It was a big tear.
He couldn't do it anymore.
We got moved up on the waitinglist.
A home had a spot in QueensWasn't my first choice.
I live in West Hempstead, butyet when we went there we felt
that it was right for him.
(16:32):
How far are you from there?
20 minutes, 20, 30 minutesdepending.
And I went very often.
It was a slow entry.
I brought him on a Thursday.
He slept over Thursday night.
I brought him home for Shabbos,I brought him back on Sunday
and then I went, first fourtimes a week and then three
times a week.
It was very hard to separate.
It was very hard and he washappy.
(16:53):
He wasn't wondering why you wereLoved it.
Oh, at least he called it myhouse, but he didn't think of
himself as one of theindividual's clients there,
right, of course, matt.
He called himself a staffmember, like when they would
come out to give medications.
He'd sit in front of the book.
He couldn't read with a pen andyou know he was of the people
(17:13):
in the house, his people.
There was one guy that wasthere.
That was okay for him, butreally his people were the staff
.
Those were his friends and theyI guess you were Loved him,
loved him.
It was very devastating when hepassed away.
(17:33):
So he went January, end ofJanuary, slow entry.
It was drama.
For me it was wow, I couldn'tbelieve I was doing it.
It wasn't right for our family.
Till that point it really justwasn't and it worked out the way
it was supposed to work out.
I got used to him not being here.
(17:54):
I would go very, very often.
I called him, he called me.
I had, I believe, one Israeltrip in May for my father's yard
site.
I went to Israel and come Julyhe didn't wake up one day,
nothing.
He was.
Oddly enough, he was hishealthiest, healthiest self.
When he passed away he lookedbeautiful.
(18:19):
I wasn't home.
I was on the first vacation ofmy life.
That wasn't children orbusiness.
I was in Colorado with a friend.
I had to get home.
I got the phone call at four inthe morning, colorado time, six
in the morning.
But I spoke to him the nightbefore because he knew I was in
a hotel.
He loved hotels.
(18:40):
So anytime I went away onbusiness or whatever he left
hotels I'd have to take him onFaceTime around.
I was on a cruise with work acouple of years back and I
couldn't get him off FaceTime.
So I had spoken to him thenight before at 9 pm.
He was great.
(19:00):
Show me the room, show himeverything the bathroom, the
pool, the whole thing.
So what happened, don't know.
Wow, no idea.
He looked beautiful, he lookedpeaceful, he was in.
He had a very unique sleepingposition um, on his belly, with
his head turned to the right,with his CPAP.
(19:21):
He wore a CPAP.
I didn't know you could sleepon your belly with a CPAP.
He figured it out.
Hands like this.
I saw him on video.
So they came in the nextmorning to do whatever they do
To wake him up at six.
They say they had seen him atmidnight and he was fine, but he
had already.
But by the time they came in.
(19:41):
But I'm going to sound like acrazy person, but you already
know I'm not, so I'll, I'll tellyou anyway.
So when they, when he called me, I go Josh, josh is everything
okay.
He goes.
No, not, no.
He said no and said Zev didn'twake up, he passed overnight and
I'm like no no, no, I'm surehe's fine.
(20:04):
Let me talk to Hatzela.
That was me.
No, let me just talk to them,I'm sure he's fine.
That doesn't sound crazy.
That sounds very normal.
I'm sure he's fine.
So there I am sitting on thefloor near the outlet because I
was using my iPad.
My daughter was on FaceTime.
I was trying to get ahold of myother daughter.
(20:25):
I was trying to get ahold of mymy ex.
I was trying to get ahold of myfamily.
It was the Khever Kedisha,who's a very good friend of mine
, the Rav of the community, thiswas.
And then I had to get on aplane.
But, but that that saying thatkept me from back when I was
pregnant, at which I hear I'm avery big fan of Rabbi Ephraim
Goldberg and his Amunashir verybig fan, especially since
(20:47):
October 7th.
The phrase that he repeats overand over again I'm exactly
where I'm meant to be wassomething that's when I had him.
This is what I'm meant to bedoing.
Any hospitalization this iswhat I'm meant to be doing.
Any hospitalization this iswhat I'm meant to be doing.
(21:08):
Different ways to say it, butthat was always what gave me
peace and really, even on theflight home, I said this is the
way it was meant to be.
I had four hours on a plane.
I had to get two hours fromfrom where I was.
Where was I?
I was in Whittier, vail.
I was in Vail, had to drive twohours with my friend, drove me
to Denver, to the airport.
(21:29):
I had that time in the carmaking phone calls, calling the
people that I didn't want tohear.
I didn't want them to hear itfrom the short email.
So I had certain people to callall the relatives.
It was a lot.
So I did all that and at theairport.
And then there was a woman atthe airport who came over to me
and just said I'm really I'm sosorry.
(21:49):
She heard me on the phone.
I got on the plane and I haveto tell you, those four hours I
think it was four hours, I'm notreally sure because of the time
zone were the biggest bracha ofmy life, really.
Yeah, it was peaceful.
I forgot I'm a Delta, whateverI am.
(22:11):
I forgot I have Wi-Fi on theplane, totally forgot my phone
was in the pocket, thank God Iforgot and I wrote my hesped for
him.
I had my laptop out, crying,crying, crying and I wrote my
husband Wow, wow.
And then I got off the planeand my daughter had come in from
Cleveland.
Um little drama there.
(22:32):
We didn't know that she didn'thave her American passport
expired during 2020.
And she has.
She had at the time three kidsunder three, oh, my goodness.
So she never did it.
We might have an amazing cousinfrom Passaic who got her
passport.
She made it to Israel.
Oh, my son is buried in Israel.
After my father passed away.
(22:53):
My parents have cemetery plotsin Israel.
My mother has since made Aliyahthat she should live and be
well.
My parents bought cemeteryplots so many years ago that I
remember I was still a kid inthe house.
I remember, like you did, whatwith a fully paid for cemetery
(23:17):
plot, and I started to get it inmy head.
My father died, as I alreadysaid, 14 months before Zev, so I
got it in my head to buy twocemetery plots one for me, one
for Zev not worried about him,just if something happens to me,
my daughter shouldn't have toworry about it and figure it out
.
It should be Ms Udhar.
And so I started talking aboutit.
My father passed away may of2021.
(23:40):
By november, december, I hadalready made a phone call to
eric's haim and started wheelingand dealing and figuring out
where.
And blah, blah, blah, and Ifully paid for two cemetery
plots at the end of march.
Wow, wow, another brother'sfather, I guess, is fine with
that.
He didn't feel like he wantshim next to him or whatever.
(24:01):
No, you know, it's like I.
I've always been the maincaregiver in the house, the
caretaker, the decision maker onmany, many levels, and I had it
wasn't even a shiloh right, itwas a question, but I didn't
have any relationship with him.
(24:22):
Great, amazing, amazing.
It was very devastating for him.
It was, yeah, because he wasn'twell enough.
I went very, very often.
I mean I was there every Sunday.
I was there at least three orfour times a week, including
Sunday.
It wasn't so easy for him to doit, and when he came, when I
(24:44):
brought him home for Shabbos, hewas here the Shabbos before he
passed away.
I couldn't have him home thatShabbos because I was leaving on
this vacation.
I was in Colorado at like fivein the morning for an 8 am
flight, so it wasn't practicalfor me to have him that Shabbos,
but I had him the Shabbosbefore.
Our neighbor's son-in-law is awell-known, famous singer who
was in my backyard with him theShabbos before.
Wow, yeah, so should we talkabout that?
(25:12):
I know I think it was you thattold this to me, and maybe I
heard it from more than oneperson that losing a special
needs child in a way is so muchharder than a regular child
because the care is so much.
You're so much more connected.
You're so you're not evenconnected.
I wouldn't even say connected,you're intertwined.
You're intertwined.
He knew everything about me,him in particular, because he
(25:33):
was intuitive.
He knew everything about me, myroutine, my schedule, what I
wore like come on, let's go, andhe goes, you're not ready.
No lipstick he was.
He knew every.
We were so intertwined.
And then let's also add to thathis physical care, in and out
(25:55):
of bed and in and out of thebathroom, washing up showers,
which mostly the aid did.
But I got him up every morningand COVID, we were literally in
the house together for almosttwo years.
So there are a couple of things.
Number one he had limitedfriends.
It's not like he's a regularkid that goes out for a play
date or goes away for Shabbos.
He went to a handful ofShabbatones.
(26:16):
It was very hard for me to gethim there, pick him up.
It wasn't a thing, it wasn't athing for us.
And he went away to his fatherand thank God we were able.
My daughter's, my seconddaughter's wedding was in Israel
.
I got him to Israel, but wewere so we're not.
It's more than connected, it'smore than even we were
intertwined.
Everything, everything.
(26:37):
I knew everything about him.
He knew everything about me.
There wasn't everything.
Everything.
I knew everything about him, heknew everything about me.
There wasn't.
It's a whole different game.
So when he passed away, I'mreading all the books, I'm
watching all the videos, I'mwatching all the, I'm listening
to all the podcasts.
A lot spoke to me.
Most did not.
I joined a million Facebookgrief groups, got out of all of
(26:57):
them pretty quickly.
The people that were my biggestsupport were my.
I have amazing close friends,childhood friends that are still
my friends, who really knew himand really understood what a
loss it was.
Most people didn't get it.
(27:18):
Did you get comments like oh,you don't take care of him
anymore, you're not sad Tons?
of those, oh tons of those, fromreally intelligent people.
Well, now you can go to Israel.
You don't have to worry abouthim.
That was the biggest one,baruch Hashem.
I go a lot.
My daughter was there.
Now my mom is there.
You don't have to worry abouthim anymore.
Wow, now my mom is there.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You don't have to worry about him anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Wow, but things I mean.
I didn't walk around in myneighborhood for at least 10
months after he died Because Iwas afraid of people saying
something stupid to me or makingme cry.
One or the other I didn't go toa grocery store locally.
I have two very dear friends Imean childhood friends that did
my shopping for me.
I wasn't, I left the house.
(28:05):
I wasn't, I was bedridden inthe beginning, but I did leave
the house.
I just didn't go anywhere inthe community at all.
Rosh Hashanah, they blew shofarhere.
Really I couldn't, I justcouldn't.
Oh, yontif, first of all was hislife.
Oh, every Yontif, rosh Hashanah, till my father passed.
(28:32):
My father is not a front of theshul kind of guy.
He was a quiet man and he hadhis seat.
And once I was divorced and Zevwas with me and we were here in
the neighborhood, my fathermoved his seat.
My father sat in the front tothe right of the bima and Zev's
wheelchair was right next to himin the aisle there.
(28:54):
So Zev was keeping the wholeair on.
So the whole shul watched Zevfind me, wave to me, do his
alchaitz, which is adorable sangevery song, knew every word,
wow, every word.
So I did not go.
(29:18):
I have not been back in my shulfor Rosh Hashanah.
First year I stayed home andthe past two years I've been in
Israel and hopefully I'll be inIsrael now for all the Chagim,
so Wow.
So what did help you?
From the, from the, you knowstuff that you read and listened
to and groups that you joined.
So most of the groups I had toleave.
I still am in two WhatsAppgroups.
(29:39):
One is a special needs groupbut it's not so active, but a
lot of it.
The other piece and this isreally the bracha for me that my
son's death was very peacefulfor many, many people that lose
children.
So he wasn't a typical.
I mean, there are children thatcrib death and those.
(30:01):
But there was so much trauma ina lot of the groups that I was
in that my heart was breakingfor everybody.
But it wasn't serving me either, right, because mine was
peaceful.
And then, you know, zev's lifewas getting harder as he got
older.
It wasn't going to get easier.
(30:23):
It was going to get harder andharder as he got older.
And he was an adult and startedto have adult medical issues
and I always had to worry abouthis teeth and, you know, his
hair was starting to bald alittle bit.
He was 30 years old.
Life was going to get harderand even though he was really
living his best life, it wasgoing to start to change.
(30:44):
So there was a little bit ofpeace, not in me, not my peace
of missing him, but the peacethat he lived a great life and
he knew he had a great life andit was time.
So you don't get that from thetypical groups.
So you ask what helped?
(31:05):
So there's a man, a very wiseman, david Kessler.
The grief community, the wholegrief community, knows who he is
, and I joined his classes.
I didn't finish some of them, Ijoined his regular grief and
then I joined the one forparents, finished some of them,
I joined his regular grief andthen I joined the one for
parents, and then it stillwasn't enough for me because I
(31:26):
was so unsettled, I was soagitated.
I mean, in the beginning I livealone, so I have a lot of
luxuries living alone.
I woke up screaming, literallyscreaming.
It was like hearing the newsall over again.
(31:46):
And when I heard the news I wasin a hotel with a friend, so I
couldn't really scream.
But every morning for weeks Iwoke up just remembering and
just screaming Wow.
So I wanted more education, Iwanted more understanding and I
told you when I wanted to learnto do something, I do all the
reading, I take out all thebooks, whether it's you know
knitting or whatever.
And I became a certified griefeducator.
(32:07):
You did, I did, I did.
Life has gotten very busy soI've done very little with it.
I've supported a few people,but I did.
What does that mean?
That you're like a grieftherapist?
I'm a certified grief educator.
Basically, I know how tounderstand and talk to people in
grief and help them through Nottherapy, it's not therapy, it's
(32:31):
more like I would call it agrief coach.
So I will, god willing, bedoing something with it.
Just wasn't really the righttime.
I still have this, but what doyou get?
So where did you get the, the,the support or understanding of,
still that you need somethingdifferent than a regular.
I needed more.
(32:52):
I just needed more.
I needed more.
I was very agitated, a lotunsettled.
You know how, when you're insomething, it's always nice to
be in in it with somebody else.
Right, I didn't find acommunity of because and I
really, oh, and then my one ofmy, I love my brothers, they're
very, very good to me.
I mean very good to me.
(33:13):
And one of them said maybe thisis the very beginning and I had
been traveling to Israel a lot.
I went for his funeral.
We came home, sat Shiva here,went back six weeks later for
the come up.
Matzeva went back again.
It was like it was a lot.
It was eight trips, it was alot.
And my brother didn't like howI looked and he said maybe you
should talk to somebody.
(33:33):
And my feeling was maybe youshould talk to a therapist.
And my feeling was there's notherapist that I could talk to
that would really understand,because I can't talk to somebody
who didn't know him.
So I did speak to NormanBlumenthal.
He's the grief, I don'tremember his title, dr Norman
Blumenthal.
He came to my house, actuallyhe did.
(33:54):
My son died in an O'Hell home,it's the least thing.
Oh, so he knew.
Okay, because he's an amazingperson, he's just amazing.
I did go to the Shabbaton.
The Shabbaton was very lovelyand helpful.
Um, they had um, I couldn't gothis year because I I had other
things, but um, it was veryhelpful.
Um, our rabbi, our assistantrabbi in shul, rabbi Yakakov
(34:23):
Abramowitz, is a therapist andhe didn't know Zev.
He became his sister rabbi.
Like the week Zev passed away,but he got it.
He got it and he had heard andhe had seen.
So I went to talk to him.
It was similar to what NormanBloomwell said and similar to
what I was learning, but Ineeded more.
I just needed I needed moreunderstanding of what this is
like.
And you know, in the beginningI thought I was embarrassed to
(34:45):
tell people that I couldn't goto a grocery store, and
apparently it's really a thing.
I found that out.
It's like no, it's like reallygrocery store in particular,
because, especially if it'slocal, the triggers in the
grocery store are next level Wow, next level.
And he loved stores, he loved.
Anything to him was anadventure.
Everything that was at anythingwas an adventure.
(35:08):
But you know it's it's almostlike, but I want to.
We talked about how intuitivehe was.
So you know when it snows, youknow how kids love snow, but I
hate snow because I have toespecially single.
You know how kids love snow,but I hate snow because I have
to especially single, single.
I got to get rid of it myself,figure it out, get him in and
out.
So he learned early on thatwhen he would see it was snowing
(35:36):
, he used to go from wow to oh,with the eyes, with the whole
thing oh, wow, comforting too.
That, like he, wherever he was,it seems like he brought so
much Simchat to peopleTremendous, always, always.
So you say the word Simchat.
So it was important, it'simportant to me to mention his
name Nitan Elzev.
So my grants.
(35:59):
My newest grandson is 15 months.
He was born a week afterOctober 7th and I knew my
daughter was going to dosomething with the name, but I
also knew that it would be veryhard to give anybody the name
Zev.
So, my grandson, you justnailed it.
My grandson's name is NitanoSimcha.
(36:19):
Oh, nitano Simcha, oh, and wecall him Nitano.
How nice, that's beautiful.
Yeah, and you know, interesting, because you know my father's
buried in Israel.
My son is buried in Israel, sohis siblings, who's now?
(36:39):
She's 11.
So she was, she was eight, nine, six, seven my grandson.
They saw and this is veryimportant, this is really
important they saw up close whatheavy grief looks like.
They felt it, they saw it.
They were very connected to Zevbut live a million miles away,
(37:01):
so connected to him, and somehowthey knew that talking about
him was the right thing.
When I was 18, when I was I was18, 19, my very best friend's
father passed away veryunexpectedly and I was not a
(37:21):
child, I was 18, but this ismany best friend's father passed
away very unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
And I was not a child , I was 18.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But this is many years ago.
You know how old I am and Istill remember that feeling of
being afraid to say anythingabout my father or her father.
And I remember like, and itdidn't even like dawn on me.
Is she forgetting that herfather died Like it didn't even
like dawn on me?
So she she forgetting that herfather died Like it didn't even
dawn on me?
But somehow my grandchildrenhad a very strong sense to
(37:45):
always ask about him and if sheever saw me crying, rena, very
intuitive, she would go Like shewould just whisper, like she
knew.
And then one day I was in theirhat in their apartment and I
come out of the bathroom Ididn't even realize that I had
been there like a whole bunch ofhours before I even saw this.
And when you come out of thebathroom there's a wall in front
of you and I come out and shehad written out in her
(38:08):
handwriting.
And then she wrote andsomething about, because that
was his, he always said be happy.
And something about MitzvahGedol Alehiot B'Semchat Tamid.
Because that was his.
He always said be happy.
Yeah, his day program honoredhim.
And we just actually it's goingto be ready any minute we just
(38:31):
raised money for a van, ahandicapped van, for his day
program at Yachar and MitzvahGedol Alehiot B'Semchat Tamid
yeah, his day program at Yachar,and I'm going to show you.
We printed.
It's actually on my purse soyou get to see my purse, but we
printed these.
These are actually going to goout once the van is.
(38:52):
It says be happy were his words.
And in memory of Zefkan, who'sjoy lit up the world.
Wow, that's so beautifulbecause you really almost have
something tangible that's livingout.
That Simcha that he created inthis world is tangible,
tremendous.
(39:12):
Wow, he never forgot a person.
He never forgot a face.
He couldn't read.
He had some sight words hecouldn't read, but he never
forgot your face, he neverforgot you and he never forgot
who your spouse was Really.
(39:34):
So if someone is listening tothis that lost a special needs
child, I guess the question iswhat like message do you want to
give to them?
Well, the message for anybody,really anybody who had a.
I mean this was a devastatingloss because of our connection
and also the shock.
But back up one second.
(39:56):
And one thing I didn't mentionwas he died in his sleep and
he's been very, very sick many,many, many times and he could
have died any number of horribledeaths and I recognize that
early on it's back to and I saidthis, I said this at his Levio,
in my, in my Hesped.
I said very early on I used tobe I'm a recovered control freak
(40:18):
, perfectionist, control freak.
So A having a special needschild will knock that out of you
so fast.
But also the fact that Icouldn't control anything.
I couldn't control my world, Icertainly couldn't control his
and all of it.
The timing, the way somewherethere's bracha in that somewhere
(40:44):
.
Again, baruch Hashem, for me itwasn't a traumatic death and it
wasn't in a hospital onmachines, which it very easily
could have been so for me butvery early on it was looking for
the good.
But very early on it waslooking for the good.
By nature, an optimist, I alwaysthink somebody really wants to
(41:04):
be their best and if they dosomething, give them a little
grace.
Not easy for me because, again,recovering perfectionist,
recovering control freak, andthis is really the most
important message for anybody.
First of all, you'll thinkyou're losing your mind.
You will literally think youare going crazy.
(41:28):
And I was positive I was nevergoing to recover.
I was positive I'd never beable to step out of my house.
And very, very early on and Ireally wasn't, it was a summer
and I wasn't going outside I wasin my chair, in my bed, in his
chair, in his bed, anotherbracha with his bed.
I'll tell you about that.
But I had little goals formyself.
(41:51):
I knew I needed air andsunshine and not just air
conditioning and that's hospitalthen.
So I would go out tiny goals,five minutes.
I go out for five minutes andjust stand outside and say to
him, wow, and a funny storyabout his bed.
He had a hospital bed which Ihad just gotten a new one
(42:11):
because my friend's mom passedaway.
It was a new bed.
I gave his away, I moved thenew one here and it was in
August.
So we passed away in July.
It was sometime in August.
Somebody in the community putsout a WhatsApp on our community
board saying and it was a friendof my father's, actually my
father can come home from thehospital before Shabbos if
(42:33):
anybody knows where we can get ahospital bed.
I used to lay down in his bed.
I used to.
It was in his room as ahospital bed.
His room was beautifully set upand I'm like, oh my gosh, this
is, it's got to go.
And I called him up and I wasalready getting ready to light
candles and the guys came tomove the bed to her house, to
(42:53):
her mom's house, and it wasunfortunately it was the same
guys that brought the bed frommy friend's house who said, hey,
where's your son?
It was very therapeutic and itwent to somebody good and I
couldn't touch his closet.
My housekeeper did his wholecloset but it went to you know,
we bagged it up and it went andit was donated and somebody is
(43:15):
going to have some beautifullywell-kept, brand new clothes,
going to have some beautifullywell-kept, brand new clothes.
But the message is you have todo for you what you think is
right, not what everybody istelling you.
I had my friends, a lot ofreally close friends that would
like call each other, they'reworried about me, and one friend
(43:36):
in particular said she'll beokay, she knows what she's doing
.
I wrote I.
You know there's a lot ofthings.
This is one of the mostvaluable things that I got out
of all the things that I've readand studied.
There were a lot of details andyou have this fear that you're
(43:56):
going to forget the details,what it felt like, what the
phone call was like, what timeit was.
You want to remember thedetails and so very early on I
just wrote and I typed because Iactually these days type faster
than I write and I typed.
I never went back to look at it, but knowing that it's there in
(44:19):
a, in a you know cloud file,it's just, it's there, all the
pieces, I don't have to worryabout remembering them.
There was a lot and there was,and the beautiful things that
people said and the beautifulthings that people did.
You want to remember them andyou can.
You just can't.
So writing them down kind offreed me up to just be, and you
(44:42):
have to just be.
Being in the quiet for me wasimpossible.
Again, I'm alone most of thetime.
I had to have very soft musicplaying constant day and night,
even on Shabbos.
So I had my iPad set on thesoftest sleep music.
(45:04):
We know how powerful music is,but for me, apparently I've
learned in all my studies thatit's a form of meditation.
So is davening and tehillim.
Even if you're notconcentrating, it's still so.
I had music playing.
It was on my iPad on the flooron one side of my bed so that if
(45:27):
I needed to hear it, I turnedtowards it, and if it was too
much input I turned away from it.
But part of that comes.
Look, I've been in the healthand wellness field for over 13
years, so I've become, I'velearned what soothes me, what
calms me other than food.
(45:48):
I've learned what soothes me,what calms me other than food.
I've learned, and I've engaged,a lot of those things, some of
them consciously, most of themunconsciously, because I've done
some of that work before this,which, I guess, prepared me for
this.
So I think, though, what it'simportant, really for those
listening to hear that, like,whatever they need, it's okay
(46:10):
For you as music, for someoneelse it might be the exact
opposite.
They need solitude or whateverit is.
Everyone has their own needs,and whatever it is, it's, it's
really all normal and it's allokay.
And that's the biggest piece.
I really especially that wholegrocery store thing.
You really think you're crazyand people go, you can't go to
the grocery store.
People say good friends wouldsay that to me.
Some understood right away andwere happy to indulge me.
(46:34):
Literally.
They had my shopping list,whatever I needed, and I went to
pick it up because I can go tosee them.
I just couldn't see thestrangers.
I didn't walk in myneighborhood for months and
months, but you have to know,you and you people thought I
isolated, but I didn't.
I took some phone calls, but themost important thing, really
(46:55):
the most important thing andthis is like in ancient cultures
, people try to say things thatthey think is going to be
helpful.
We all know some of those awfulthings that people say,
especially the one where, like,especially when it's special
needs, especially when it'ssomebody that's sick, you know,
wow, what are you going to dowith your time now?
(47:16):
Somebody said to me and theysaid it caring, and I get the
question but like, did youreally just say that to me,
right?
So it's like the importance ofjust sitting and I'm going to
tell you something.
A friend of one of my, very oneof my shoppers.
(47:37):
Let's call them one of myshoppers.
I actually call them my secretservice.
So my birthday was two weeksafter he passed away, so I guess
like a week-ish after Shiva,two weeks after he passed away,
so I guess like a week-ish afterShiva, and she texted me this
is one of my secret service.
She texted me.
This was the text I'm in yourbackyard on your deck, I have
(47:58):
snacks, coffee.
Come out only if you want to.
That's so nice.
I was in my bed bed.
It was a very difficult day,took a minute, but I did go out
and we didn't talk, we just sat.
Really, that is the mostimportant thing.
You cannot.
There is nothing anybody couldsay in a, especially any parent,
(48:25):
especially a special needsparent.
Nothing anybody could sayexcept a memory of him.
And I can only imagine how hardthis is.
Yeah, that doesn't feel clicheto you, not at all.
The one that.
The one that is really hard tohear is I have no words, don't
(48:49):
even try because there are nowords, but saying that shuts
down conversation.
I was with a friend, friantif,one of the Amtovim.
I don't remember which, oh,pesach, end of Pesach, the first
year, and we lit candles.
I was a rack, lit a yardsidecandles was the last day and she
(49:10):
just said tell me what you missmost.
That's really, you know, whatpeople need to know, that they
don't have to be scared to bringit up.
The tears are always there andthey have to come.
They have to come, right, youknow, it's the people that can
(49:35):
sit with you.
And why am I?
I describe these certain friendsthat, really, because they
would sit always, likeunintentionally, say a memory of
him, repeat a memory that theyhad of him.
That's what you want to hear.
(49:55):
It seems like they don't wantto rub salt in your wound, but
that is all you want to hear,right, especially of a child.
You want to hear that yourchild is not forgotten, right,
right, wow, I'm here, just bethere, send the text.
(50:18):
I didn't answer my phone for avery long time, a very long time
, unless it was like immediate,immediate, secret service,
people, level people.
Um, I didn't answer my phoneand I would answer text slowly
when I could.
Right, right, just, I'm thinkingabout you right and then the
(50:39):
big if the again.
I'm gonna people I hope knowthis by now, but never say to
somebody who's either, i've'vebeen sick, I've had a sick kid
in the hospital.
I've had a sick kid and Icouldn't leave the house and I
said Shiva twice, never say thewords.
If you need anything, let meknow.
You may as well just poke me inthe eye with a fork.
(51:01):
If you ever say that, you sayto me and I have friends that
did this naturally you say to meI'm going to CVS in an hour.
Text me your list.
I'm going to the library.
Do you have anything to return?
Or, even more specifically, I'mgoing to the grocery.
Do you need bread or milk?
(51:22):
Yes, mother might not realizethat she needs anything, but if
you say bread or milk, she mightbe like I do not need bread,
but I need half a glass.
Can I bring you a coffee?
I'm going to get coffee.
Can I bring you one?
Right, how do you want it?
Not, it's look, unfortunately.
Fortunately, we've had a lot ofexperience with, you know,
(51:44):
needing meal trains and all that, and it's interesting.
One of my daughters loved whenthe people dropped off the meal
train.
My other daughter just couldn'ttake.
It hid in her room, literally.
We've had meal trains manytimes for a very long time and
you know, it's like when peoplewould drop it off, the ones that
(52:08):
put a note I'm thinking aboutyou was.
It was something.
It was like I.
It was more than just like, ohmy God, I got this meal together
for you, right?
More than that, it was likethink of you and I'm here, right
, right, listen, you know,having no knowing how to really
show empathy is a skill.
It's a skill that it's anenviable skill, in my opinion,
(52:31):
like if someone has that, I envyit.
I don't know if I have it ornot.
I hope I do, I wish I do, butwhen it comes so naturally to
people, it's amazing and it's so, you know it.
Just, it's so comforting forthose that you know need it.
I tell my grandchildren, theolder ones, I say so.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
She's 11 now he's nine, and my son is two and a
half years.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I say to them you are the luckiest, unlucky
grandchildren little children.
I said, because they had to dealwith it.
It was very awful.
It was very awful and you alsolearned you had to deal with it.
So I'm sad for you but I'mhappy for you because you know
how to deal with it Right.
(53:16):
And it took them a long time.
They've been to my father'skever.
They didn't go to Zev's untilmore recently, but they were
here last summer.
They painted rocks.
They took them back, so he hasa few painted rocks on his, on
his camera.
It took a while, they weren'tready to go, but they just, they
(53:37):
just get it and they're smartkids.
I don't know that they're thatmuch smarter than the kids next
door, but they've had this so upclose and personal.
They also give me my space whenI need it.
And then my granddaughter.
Something interesting I was in.
I go to Israel for his yardsite, obviously, so I was there
this past year.
It was July 11th.
He died on July 4th, which wasbizarre because he hated
(54:01):
fireworks, hated fireworks,hated fibers.
But so July 11th and it wasalso a day that my brother, we
had an opportunity and he askedme if I wanted to go.
It was a day of the art siteand we were meeting at the
cemetery, the whole family comes.
It's a whole beautiful thingand my daughter makes a dinner.
(54:22):
We were meeting at the cemeteryat 5 o'clock and my brother
said I don't know if you want togo, but we have an opportunity
to go on a mini tour down southto the Nova site, to the car
park, to stay road to Bayri, andthen one of the thing that we
didn't get to, and he goes.
I know it's the art site, butwe're going to be back and
you're welcome to come with us.
(54:43):
I went on the day of the artsite and my granddaughter she
was 10 at the time she looks atme, she goes you're going down
South, you, with her finger.
You don't have enough traumas,but but I'm going to tell you it
was very healing for me.
It was very healing.
(55:04):
It was horrible, it washorrific, but it was very
healing Because one of thethings when life was difficult,
like many, many years ago, oneof the things that was very
important to me when I wasreally I was working very hard.
I'm a single mom, a lot of hours, intense job, something the
beach pulled me.
So I would drive to Long Beach,even if I only had five, 10
(55:26):
minutes, and walk on theboardwalk with music, soft music
, on, often one song on repeatbecause it's very meditative.
That's a hint for people whothink they don't meditate.
You might, because you don'thave like the startle of a new
song coming on that you may notwant to listen to.
So one song on repeat and Iwould just have to see the ocean
(55:49):
to see that there's a worldbigger than my little house and
the drama and awful thingshappening in my little house and
the beach was very and goingdown South.
Also, while they're giving youthe tours, they're also talking
about the miracles that happened.
And there's a much bigger worldout there.
(56:11):
We don't run it, we can't evenpretend to run it, and there's a
greater, there's a greatermission.
Somewhere I know I'm exactlywhere I'm supposed to be, wow.
Well, I think it's a beautifulending message, but I do always
(56:33):
like to give my guests theopportunity.
If there's something that wedidn't get to that you want to
leave with when you know, Iwould ask you a question what
are the when you interviewpeople?
I've heard many, you know.
What are you curious about?
I'm you about?
It's important for me thatpeople understand that this is
(56:53):
gigantic, but you will recover.
You won't really recover is notthe right word.
You will get through it becauseand the grief comes and goes
Purim my son's bar mitzvah wason Purim.
I don't yet know what I'm doingon Purim and it was a Friday,
his bar mitzvah year.
And we always celebrated hisbirthday on Purim and his
(57:14):
birthday is this Shabbos, and Idon't know yet what I'm doing,
but it changes and that's thething to know.
There are some days where it'sgoing to feel very, very heavy
Every time there's a Simcha inthe family.
It's twofold, because I can goto a wedding much easier in
(57:35):
Lakewood than I used to and havea lot of weddings in Lakewood.
But he loved weddings, loved,oh my God.
You took him with you toweddings, yeah, till more
recently when it was harderbecause it was harder to get him
up in the morning.
But many, oh my gosh, loved,loved.
And I had a bunch of weddingsright after he passed.
It was very difficult Familywedding Wedding I did.
(57:59):
They were very close family.
My nephew, niece.
I went.
Those were very difficult.
I didn't drive, I had somebodydrive me.
It was very difficult but ofcourse I went.
I you know, for those I wentMany things.
I didn't go to many invitationsI did not take but anybody
close to me it wasn't easy butit was, I wanted to.
(58:24):
I could have also said no,thank you, but you know I had
the unique I was alone, whichlike it was awful and it was
great because I could dowhatever I wanted.
So like it was awful and it wasgreat.
And you have to appreciatewhere you are.
Again, it's all min ha-shamayim, the way he died, how he died
(58:47):
Even early on in my daughter andher has-been in the shul said
this is how she started.
He would have hated to missthis.
It's like it's this thing andyou know I'm not Hasidic, I'm as
modern Orthodox as they comeYoung Israel family through and
(59:09):
through.
Why you?
Young Israel family through andthrough, and it's this concept
of.
I don't control it and this iswhat's meant for me, and I don't
know why but, this is it.
You know what, without yourAmuna, how could you go on?
So it's amazing how strong yourmoon is.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
And one other message to people is and I know that
most of the people who youraudience is probably people who
are heavily in grief right, notnecessarily A lot of people that
never even went through grief,listen.
So that is an important that isactually one of my missions.
I just haven't had time to doanything about.
It is one of my real missionsis how to support people in
(59:53):
grief.
Um, because you, you need tonot be judged when you are
laying in bed on your son'sbirthday or not going to the
grocery store for 10 months, orcertain places you may never be
able to walk into.
My son's house was on CasinoBoulevard.
(01:00:14):
Anytime I'm on the LAE and Isee Casino Boulevard, I lose a
little breath.
But the ability to be withpeople and not judge them for
how they're doing it you don'tknow how you would do it, but
it's you know that phrase you doyou, especially here.
(01:00:35):
And then the other message forthe general population is know
what comforts you.
We're all going to go throughsomething.
Best case scenario.
Best case scenario we're goingto bury both our parents and a
couple of older siblings, if youhappen to have them.
Best case scenario.
(01:00:57):
And I was very angry when myfather died by the way, I know
this is the topic here because Iwas very angry at how
unprepared we are for grief as acommunity, as a society, as a
Jewish community, society ingeneral.
I was very angry because myfather had a great life.
He didn't.
(01:01:18):
He had a great life, his legacy, his children, his
grandchildren, hisgreat-grandchildren.
You know he doesn't considerhimself a Holocaust survivor
because he was in Siberia, theSiberian hotel for the war, but
he had a great life and he madea great life and he left my
mother beautiful, the ability tohave a beautiful life, and the
(01:01:43):
misery that I felt after he diedI felt was unfair.
And the misery that I feltafter he died, I felt was unfair
.
I'm not talking about sadnesswas one thing, but the misery
felt like we were veryunprepared for it.
But health and wellness is myfield.
I'm a nurse by trade, a coachfor the past 13 years and I knew
(01:02:04):
the things that calmed me.
Because we all go throughmoments.
We all have moments where wejust want to scream, kick, yell,
break something, drive off acliff if it's that crazy.
But know what you need, whatquiets your mind, what quiets
your soul, and I already had alot of that down pat.
(01:02:25):
Okay, so that's fortunate foryou.
But that's the message Knowwhat can comfort you, know what
you know.
Some people need a party, otherpeople need.
I needed a lot of.
I need a lot of quiet.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I needed a lot of quiet.
Sometimes people may need cheerand some people may need to
organize every drawer and closetin their house.
Correct, correct, but no, youhave to know yourself.
There's no right or wrong.
It's you have to know yourselfand you have to really be
attuned to what can calm you.
Wow, okay, well, thank you soso much for coming on, really
(01:03:04):
appreciate it.
It's my pleasure.
I'm sorry it took us so long toconnect.
It was nice, it's really apleasure and really, if I can
support anybody, just send themmy way I'm happy to.
This is not a financial.
This wasn't something I waslooking to monetize.
This is just something that Iit was not easy to find the
(01:03:26):
right community for me becauseit was such a unique situation.
Right, right, okay, I willdefinitely pass that message
along if anyone reaches out tome.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
You've just listened to an episode of the Relief from
Grief podcast with MiriamRiviat, brought to you by Mayrim
.
For more episodes, visit theMayrim website at wwwmayrimorg.
Help us reach more people whomight benefit from this podcast.
If you know someone who couldfind it helpful, please share it
with them.
If you have questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
(01:04:03):
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, we'd love to
hear from you.
Email us at relieffromgrief atmayrimorg.
We look forward to having youjoin us in the next episode.
Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by
Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought toyou by Mayrim.
Mayrim is an organizationdedicated to supporting families
who have experienced the lossof a child.
It was founded by EloiNishmat's, Nechama Liba and
Miriam Holman.
Despite her illness, Miriamdevoted herself to addressing
(00:22):
the needs of parents andsiblings grappling with the
immense pain of losing a child.
She felt this loss deeply,having experienced it firsthand
when her older sister, NechamaLiba, passed away.
Mehrim continues to uplift andexpand on the work Miriam began,
a mission carried forward byher parents with great
dedication.
(00:43):
If you have any questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, please email us
at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg.
Hi everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thank you so much for joining me here on the Relief
From Grief podcast with Mayrim.
Today, mrs Miriam Khan, wholost a special, neat son, is
here.
So thank you so so much forcoming on and I'm so excited and
I know you have so much to sayso excited to get started.
I have a lot to say, okay, soshould we start off a little bit
(01:19):
about wait first.
Could you tell us your son'sname?
Okay, my son's name was Zev.
We called him Zev.
He was Zev Zevi His Hebrew namewhich is important because my
grandson is named for him.
His Hebrew name was Netanel Zev.
We knew he was going to be bornwith special needs, so we
needed to give him a veryspecial name.
(01:40):
Wow, that's so nice.
Okay, so should we talk alittle bit about when he was
born?
If you knew about his special,you just told me you knew about
his special needs the otherchildren why don't we go into
that whole story?
We got it.
So my son would be turning 33next this Shabbos.
Oh, wow.
And he passed when he was 30.
(02:01):
He passed July 4th 2022.
Hey, thomas, shocking.
It was very, very shocking.
So when I found out I wasexpecting him, we had just moved
into this house from anotherhouse a few blocks away and I
had at the time a four-year-oldand a two-year-old, so it was
(02:24):
busy house and we moved while Iwas pregnant.
I didn't know anything yet.
And then there's again.
This is 30 years ago.
I'm going to sound like areally old lady, but 30 years
ago they did this test.
They probably still do itcalled the AFP3.
It's a test.
It's a blood test, it's nothinginvasive.
It was a test for spina bifidaand I had that test because I
(02:47):
had it with everybody else andI'm a nurse and I'm basically a
scientist, so more informationfor me is always better, even if
we wouldn't do anything aboutit.
Anyway, that test came back alittle funky, a lot funky and
yeah, it was again, but I justthought it was just standard,
(03:07):
whatever.
And they sent me for anemergency amnio because it was
already I was running out oftime.
Should I choose to abort thefetus, which wasn't an option?
But the doctors treat you likeyou might.
The doctors treat you like youmight.
(03:28):
So they rushed the amnio andthen the results came back and
he had some sort of a geneticflip where they had at the time
really very limited informationon what it could look like, but
based on what they knew and whatthese type of syndromes, it was
a syndrome, not a name.
It doesn't look good.
(03:50):
And then I had like a lot ofsonograms all the time and they
didn't feel that he would beborn alive.
So what was interesting wasback then we didn't have
internet I told you I'm going tosound like the oldest lady ever
.
Well, I could just tell all thelisteners what I told you before
.
You look like you're 30.
63, 63.
(04:10):
Wow, yeah, my daughter's 37.
Wow, okay, so you really don'tlook like that at all.
Thank you, thank you.
I say I drink a lot of waterand I eat pretty well most of
the time.
So more information for me wasalways better.
I lost my train of thought butwe'll get oh.
So they said no, no, it doesn'tlook good, we don't really
(04:33):
think the baby is going to beborn alive.
So back in those days we wentto the geneticists and everybody
thought it was a terrible ideato continue with the pregnancy.
I back then I don't know wheremy Emuna came from.
I grew up in a modern Orthodoxhome I am still modern Orthodox
with like a big piece of if it'smeant to be, it's going to be.
(04:54):
If it's meant to be, it's goingto be.
And I kind of felt if it'smeant for me to have a special
needs child, then I'm going tohave it.
One way or another I'm going tohave it.
And he was born fine.
Let's just say he was bornrelatively fine.
He had some GI issues but birthwas normal.
He was born three weeks early.
(05:14):
My husband was actually awedding singer.
He was at a wedding.
He had to leave the wedding.
It was a little drama, buteverything was fine.
We came home from the hospitalfine.
He didn't look quite right.
They pointed out some featuresthat looked syndromy and he
started to have a lot of GIissues.
He had a lot of reflux.
He was vomiting a lot like alot, a lot of medical issues.
He had surgery when he was fourmonths old and many, many
(05:37):
surgeries, many GI surgeries,many hospitalizations.
When he was 11, he had veryextensive back surgery because
he had horrendous scoliosisHorrendous and it was affecting
his breathing and digestion.
But they were not shy abouttelling us that he could die
(05:57):
during surgery and it wouldn'tbe shocking.
They were not even shy about it.
Anyway, he did great.
It was a year of recovery andunfortunately, soon after he
recovered, I found out that Iwas sick, so his surgery was in
2003.
I was sick in 2004.
Hashem, 20 years.
It's going to be 21 years ago.
(06:18):
I thank God every day.
This is what was meant for me.
So the girls, one of the mainfocuses that I had.
And it was complicated.
I had nurses in the house.
He was tube fed for many, manyyears.
Then we were able to take outthe tube, but he only ate purees
.
He was a very involved but andthis is the piece that is very
(06:41):
hard to describe if you didn'tknow him, he was the Heverman he
was.
Everybody in the community knewhim.
I couldn't get if I was evergoing out and walking past the
shul.
We could not get past the shul.
He's high-fiving everybody,he's hugging everybody.
He was the Heverman In hiswheelchair.
He knew everybody, wow.
(07:03):
And his bar mitzvah was purim2005, I I suppose.
Yeah, 2005.
There was a quiet everybody isstill talking about, still to
this day.
It was the quietest arshul hadever been was when he got his
aliyah.
He was able to an aliyah.
He was able to An Aaliyah.
(07:24):
Yeah, he was able to.
The whole of the family came infrom Israel.
It was a very big event and mybrother Alain and my brother Ed
McGill, and everybody in thefamily got the Aaliyahs.
But he was able to get anAaliyah and it was quite a
moment, quite a moment.
Wow, that's amazing.
I wow, that's amazing.
(07:49):
I can picture what you'resaying, I can envision it,
because I look there's some,let's say, down syndrome kids
that I've seen and everyone justloves them, they know everyone,
they're very friendly.
So I I could really, you know,picture what you're saying.
And he had a very big intuitionabout feelings and people.
I got divorced almost 17 yearsago and he knew that there were
(08:09):
weird things going on.
He couldn't articulate it.
He spoke, believe me, he ranthe show here, but he knew that
things were going on and if heever saw me crying or sad, his
intuition was incredible.
He would just come over andgive me a hug, wow.
And he would say be happy, behappy, mommy.
(08:32):
Wow, how old was he at thispoint?
It was throughout.
It was throughout years andyears, and before Shabbos he
would I still have this beforeShabbos, he would like call out
light in the fridge, the light,the?
Yeah, wow, wow, yeah, all right, and what about your, your
(08:54):
other girls?
Your, they like?
Oh, the hardest thing I everhad to do in my whole life was
call them the day that he didn'twake up.
They live near you.
No, they live near you.
Nobody lives near me.
Tova's in Israel, she's in Ramat, bechemesh in Gimel, and my
other daughter is currently inCleveland.
(09:16):
But getting back to Israel.
So I'm traveling, safdie, I goto Cleveland, I go to Israel.
Bar HaShem I somehow managed togo when he was alive.
I go a little bit more now.
I don't have to hire anybody.
So that's a little, you know,bittersweet.
And when I used to come homefrom all my trips, I used to
sneak into the house if he wasasleep, if I landed at you know
(09:38):
five, six in the morning, but hehad eagle hearing and he'd yell
from his room Hi, mom Wow.
Yeah, he was very.
I had a pair of red shoes.
I mean, I still have them.
I will never throw them out,probably, but every time I put
them on, every time and they'relike they're before COVID shoes,
(10:01):
so that's over five years,seven years old, and every time
I put them on.
Nice shoes, mom Wow.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
He was a lot.
He was a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And he required a lot of care.
But he told you what to do, hemade it easy.
He was a lot of, he was a lotof fun.
He was a, he was a lot of fun.
Was it hard for him?
Did he realize when he reached,let's say, I don't know
marriageable age, that he can'tget married?
No, oh, so at least that no.
And he didn't realize that hedidn't have quote, unquote
(10:36):
friends, because and it'sinteresting we always had
volunteers from the community,people coming in and from
friendship circle, from thecommunity people coming in and
from friendship circle, just myfriend's sons.
Till they were, till they wentto Israel, they would come in
and he would say to me and theywould often come, sunday was a
harder day and he would say tome are the friends coming today,
friends coming today?
So he didn't really sort ofvery strong sense of who he was
(11:01):
and who people were to him.
But it wasn't.
He didn't know, he just didn'tknow.
And in the beginning he youknow, when he did go the summer,
that I was sick, I had a lot oftreatment, he went to Hask, but
he was young, he was 12.
And he hadn't yet, like, seenmy daughters coming and going
(11:24):
camp Israel thing.
So it was a very strange thingfor him.
Then it evolved that they'recoming and going and coming and
going, and I mean they're biggirls.
So it was a whole different, awhole different.
He really didn't and he didn'tknow that.
He didn't go places.
He didn't know, he didn'treally understand that, despite
how intuitive he was, but heknew things.
(11:44):
One of his therapists wasasking me it was January time
and you couldn't tell him inadvance if anybody was coming or
if there was a trip, because hedidn't have a sense of time
either.
So everything was tomorrow.
So his therapist said to mewhen are you going to Israel
next?
And I knew that my next was mydaughter and her family coming
(12:08):
in from Israel.
So I said and I actually toldthe story at his Leviah.
I said I tried to think of acode way to say it.
I said the big one is coming infor the spring holiday.
She leaves, leaves, goes outthe door.
In two seconds he picks up hisiPad, calls his father and Abba
(12:32):
Tova's coming for Pesach.
There are a lot of stories likethat, but that one was the most
striking because what?
Wow, wow.
See, he was fun.
He was just like a fun day.
When did you realize that he wasmentally special needs From the
(12:52):
beginning?
Oh yes, in the beginning hespoke late.
Everything he did was late,everything was delayed.
He walked late, he spoke lateand in the end he walked with a
walker.
But he always understoodeverything and he knew the girls
.
My girls were very.
They looked alike and I dressedthem alike and they had the
same hair.
So their names are Tova andShira, but his speech therapist
used to yell at me to stopdressing them alike and change
(13:14):
their hair because he used tocall them Tova Shira like they
were one entity.
I have identical twin sons,maishi and Dovi.
When they were younger theywere just Maishi Dovi to people
because no one knew who theywere.
So you're either Maishi or Dovi, so we'll just call both of you
Maishi Dovi.
That's great.
That is great and that's whatit was for him.
(13:35):
It was.
That's what it was Wow.
And they came and they went andhe called them and FaceTime and
they visited and he just theysurprised him.
Some of the pictures I have andthe videos I have of the
surprises were crazy Wow.
So what happened that made youmove them into an assisted
(13:57):
living, so it was something thatwas eventually going to have to
happen.
A few things happened at aroundthe same time.
My father passed away actually14 months before my son, and it
was around that time that myson's father, my ex, was having
a lot of medical challenges andI really depended on him.
(14:19):
I went to Israel a lot, baruchHashem a million times.
I went to Israel a lot and Imade arrangements for during the
week my mom used to sleep herein my house.
He had a handicap room in theback over there and then my
mother couldn't.
She was getting older, my dadwasn't well and then he passed
away and his father could nolonger really handle him over
(14:43):
the weekend.
So it became because there wasa parent that was, let's say,
disabled for lack of a betterword we got moved up on this
endless, endless waiting listand it was very difficult, but
it was time anyway.
He had been home with me fromCOVID.
(15:04):
I kept him home before like aweek before anybody else stayed
home, because I was very nervousabout his asthma.
He had a lot of asthmahospitalizations.
He got a lot of flu.
Every time he got flu he endedup asthmatic oxygen the whole
thing.
So I was very nervous.
So he was home with me fornearly two years Home, he had
(15:24):
home.
His day had kept Zoom open forhim.
I wouldn't send him because ifanybody got sick I was terrified
and he was home.
We were home together.
I got extra help.
I had an aid for him during theday when I worked and then that
was the afternoon, from when hegot home from his program till
bedtime and during COVID andnearly two years till January,
(15:50):
he had a morning aid also.
They were fabulous.
I was very, very lucky.
I was very.
I don't for one second.
It was really minishamayim.
They were really unbelievable.
And now my trips are gettingcompromised.
I could barely be my father washe passed away on a Saturday
night my brothers came in.
They live in Israel, they camein from Israel and that was like
(16:12):
the last time that he wasreally able to take care of my
son.
And then when I sat Shiva, hetook him for Shabbos.
But it was really it was.
It was a big tear.
He couldn't do it anymore.
We got moved up on the waitinglist.
A home had a spot in QueensWasn't my first choice.
I live in West Hempstead, butyet when we went there we felt
that it was right for him.
(16:32):
How far are you from there?
20 minutes, 20, 30 minutesdepending.
And I went very often.
It was a slow entry.
I brought him on a Thursday.
He slept over Thursday night.
I brought him home for Shabbos,I brought him back on Sunday
and then I went, first fourtimes a week and then three
times a week.
It was very hard to separate.
It was very hard and he washappy.
(16:53):
He wasn't wondering why you wereLoved it.
Oh, at least he called it myhouse, but he didn't think of
himself as one of theindividual's clients there,
right, of course, matt.
He called himself a staffmember, like when they would
come out to give medications.
He'd sit in front of the book.
He couldn't read with a pen andyou know he was of the people
(17:13):
in the house, his people.
There was one guy that wasthere.
That was okay for him, butreally his people were the staff
.
Those were his friends and theyI guess you were Loved him,
loved him.
It was very devastating when hepassed away.
(17:33):
So he went January, end ofJanuary, slow entry.
It was drama.
For me it was wow, I couldn'tbelieve I was doing it.
It wasn't right for our family.
Till that point it really justwasn't and it worked out the way
it was supposed to work out.
I got used to him not being here.
(17:54):
I would go very, very often.
I called him, he called me.
I had, I believe, one Israeltrip in May for my father's yard
site.
I went to Israel and come Julyhe didn't wake up one day,
nothing.
He was.
Oddly enough, he was hishealthiest, healthiest self.
When he passed away he lookedbeautiful.
(18:19):
I wasn't home.
I was on the first vacation ofmy life.
That wasn't children orbusiness.
I was in Colorado with a friend.
I had to get home.
I got the phone call at four inthe morning, colorado time, six
in the morning.
But I spoke to him the nightbefore because he knew I was in
a hotel.
He loved hotels.
(18:40):
So anytime I went away onbusiness or whatever he left
hotels I'd have to take him onFaceTime around.
I was on a cruise with work acouple of years back and I
couldn't get him off FaceTime.
So I had spoken to him thenight before at 9 pm.
He was great.
(19:00):
Show me the room, show himeverything the bathroom, the
pool, the whole thing.
So what happened, don't know.
Wow, no idea.
He looked beautiful, he lookedpeaceful, he was in.
He had a very unique sleepingposition um, on his belly, with
his head turned to the right,with his CPAP.
(19:21):
He wore a CPAP.
I didn't know you could sleepon your belly with a CPAP.
He figured it out.
Hands like this.
I saw him on video.
So they came in the nextmorning to do whatever they do
To wake him up at six.
They say they had seen him atmidnight and he was fine, but he
had already.
But by the time they came in.
(19:41):
But I'm going to sound like acrazy person, but you already
know I'm not, so I'll, I'll tellyou anyway.
So when they, when he called me, I go Josh, josh is everything
okay.
He goes.
No, not, no.
He said no and said Zev didn'twake up, he passed overnight and
I'm like no no, no, I'm surehe's fine.
(20:04):
Let me talk to Hatzela.
That was me.
No, let me just talk to them,I'm sure he's fine.
That doesn't sound crazy.
That sounds very normal.
I'm sure he's fine.
So there I am sitting on thefloor near the outlet because I
was using my iPad.
My daughter was on FaceTime.
I was trying to get ahold of myother daughter.
(20:25):
I was trying to get ahold of mymy ex.
I was trying to get ahold of myfamily.
It was the Khever Kedisha,who's a very good friend of mine
, the Rav of the community, thiswas.
And then I had to get on aplane.
But, but that that saying thatkept me from back when I was
pregnant, at which I hear I'm avery big fan of Rabbi Ephraim
Goldberg and his Amunashir verybig fan, especially since
(20:47):
October 7th.
The phrase that he repeats overand over again I'm exactly
where I'm meant to be wassomething that's when I had him.
This is what I'm meant to bedoing.
Any hospitalization this iswhat I'm meant to be doing.
Any hospitalization this iswhat I'm meant to be doing.
(21:08):
Different ways to say it, butthat was always what gave me
peace and really, even on theflight home, I said this is the
way it was meant to be.
I had four hours on a plane.
I had to get two hours fromfrom where I was.
Where was I?
I was in Whittier, vail.
I was in Vail, had to drive twohours with my friend, drove me
to Denver, to the airport.
(21:29):
I had that time in the carmaking phone calls, calling the
people that I didn't want tohear.
I didn't want them to hear itfrom the short email.
So I had certain people to callall the relatives.
It was a lot.
So I did all that and at theairport.
And then there was a woman atthe airport who came over to me
and just said I'm really I'm sosorry.
(21:49):
She heard me on the phone.
I got on the plane and I haveto tell you, those four hours I
think it was four hours, I'm notreally sure because of the time
zone were the biggest bracha ofmy life, really.
Yeah, it was peaceful.
I forgot I'm a Delta, whateverI am.
(22:11):
I forgot I have Wi-Fi on theplane, totally forgot my phone
was in the pocket, thank God Iforgot and I wrote my hesped for
him.
I had my laptop out, crying,crying, crying and I wrote my
husband Wow, wow.
And then I got off the planeand my daughter had come in from
Cleveland.
Um little drama there.
(22:32):
We didn't know that she didn'thave her American passport
expired during 2020.
And she has.
She had at the time three kidsunder three, oh, my goodness.
So she never did it.
We might have an amazing cousinfrom Passaic who got her
passport.
She made it to Israel.
Oh, my son is buried in Israel.
After my father passed away.
(22:53):
My parents have cemetery plotsin Israel.
My mother has since made Aliyahthat she should live and be
well.
My parents bought cemeteryplots so many years ago that I
remember I was still a kid inthe house.
I remember, like you did, whatwith a fully paid for cemetery
(23:17):
plot, and I started to get it inmy head.
My father died, as I alreadysaid, 14 months before Zev, so I
got it in my head to buy twocemetery plots one for me, one
for Zev not worried about him,just if something happens to me,
my daughter shouldn't have toworry about it and figure it out
.
It should be Ms Udhar.
And so I started talking aboutit.
My father passed away may of2021.
(23:40):
By november, december, I hadalready made a phone call to
eric's haim and started wheelingand dealing and figuring out
where.
And blah, blah, blah, and Ifully paid for two cemetery
plots at the end of march.
Wow, wow, another brother'sfather, I guess, is fine with
that.
He didn't feel like he wantshim next to him or whatever.
(24:01):
No, you know, it's like I.
I've always been the maincaregiver in the house, the
caretaker, the decision maker onmany, many levels, and I had it
wasn't even a shiloh right, itwas a question, but I didn't
have any relationship with him.
(24:22):
Great, amazing, amazing.
It was very devastating for him.
It was, yeah, because he wasn'twell enough.
I went very, very often.
I mean I was there every Sunday.
I was there at least three orfour times a week, including
Sunday.
It wasn't so easy for him to doit, and when he came, when I
(24:44):
brought him home for Shabbos, hewas here the Shabbos before he
passed away.
I couldn't have him home thatShabbos because I was leaving on
this vacation.
I was in Colorado at like fivein the morning for an 8 am
flight, so it wasn't practicalfor me to have him that Shabbos,
but I had him the Shabbosbefore.
Our neighbor's son-in-law is awell-known, famous singer who
was in my backyard with him theShabbos before.
Wow, yeah, so should we talkabout that?
(25:12):
I know I think it was you thattold this to me, and maybe I
heard it from more than oneperson that losing a special
needs child in a way is so muchharder than a regular child
because the care is so much.
You're so much more connected.
You're so you're not evenconnected.
I wouldn't even say connected,you're intertwined.
You're intertwined.
He knew everything about me,him in particular, because he
(25:33):
was intuitive.
He knew everything about me, myroutine, my schedule, what I
wore like come on, let's go, andhe goes, you're not ready.
No lipstick he was.
He knew every.
We were so intertwined.
And then let's also add to thathis physical care, in and out
(25:55):
of bed and in and out of thebathroom, washing up showers,
which mostly the aid did.
But I got him up every morningand COVID, we were literally in
the house together for almosttwo years.
So there are a couple of things.
Number one he had limitedfriends.
It's not like he's a regularkid that goes out for a play
date or goes away for Shabbos.
He went to a handful ofShabbatones.
(26:16):
It was very hard for me to gethim there, pick him up.
It wasn't a thing, it wasn't athing for us.
And he went away to his fatherand thank God we were able.
My daughter's, my seconddaughter's wedding was in Israel
.
I got him to Israel, but wewere so we're not.
It's more than connected, it'smore than even we were
intertwined.
Everything, everything.
(26:37):
I knew everything about him.
He knew everything about me.
There wasn't everything.
Everything.
I knew everything about him, heknew everything about me.
There wasn't.
It's a whole different game.
So when he passed away, I'mreading all the books, I'm
watching all the videos, I'mwatching all the, I'm listening
to all the podcasts.
A lot spoke to me.
Most did not.
I joined a million Facebookgrief groups, got out of all of
(26:57):
them pretty quickly.
The people that were my biggestsupport were my.
I have amazing close friends,childhood friends that are still
my friends, who really knew himand really understood what a
loss it was.
Most people didn't get it.
(27:18):
Did you get comments like oh,you don't take care of him
anymore, you're not sad Tons?
of those, oh tons of those, fromreally intelligent people.
Well, now you can go to Israel.
You don't have to worry abouthim.
That was the biggest one,baruch Hashem.
I go a lot.
My daughter was there.
Now my mom is there.
You don't have to worry abouthim anymore.
Wow, now my mom is there.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You don't have to worry about him anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Wow, but things I mean.
I didn't walk around in myneighborhood for at least 10
months after he died Because Iwas afraid of people saying
something stupid to me or makingme cry.
One or the other I didn't go toa grocery store locally.
I have two very dear friends Imean childhood friends that did
my shopping for me.
I wasn't, I left the house.
(28:05):
I wasn't, I was bedridden inthe beginning, but I did leave
the house.
I just didn't go anywhere inthe community at all.
Rosh Hashanah, they blew shofarhere.
Really I couldn't, I justcouldn't.
Oh, yontif, first of all was hislife.
Oh, every Yontif, rosh Hashanah, till my father passed.
(28:32):
My father is not a front of theshul kind of guy.
He was a quiet man and he hadhis seat.
And once I was divorced and Zevwas with me and we were here in
the neighborhood, my fathermoved his seat.
My father sat in the front tothe right of the bima and Zev's
wheelchair was right next to himin the aisle there.
(28:54):
So Zev was keeping the wholeair on.
So the whole shul watched Zevfind me, wave to me, do his
alchaitz, which is adorable sangevery song, knew every word,
wow, every word.
So I did not go.
(29:18):
I have not been back in my shulfor Rosh Hashanah.
First year I stayed home andthe past two years I've been in
Israel and hopefully I'll be inIsrael now for all the Chagim,
so Wow.
So what did help you?
From the, from the, you knowstuff that you read and listened
to and groups that you joined.
So most of the groups I had toleave.
I still am in two WhatsAppgroups.
(29:39):
One is a special needs groupbut it's not so active, but a
lot of it.
The other piece and this isreally the bracha for me that my
son's death was very peacefulfor many, many people that lose
children.
So he wasn't a typical.
I mean, there are children thatcrib death and those.
(30:01):
But there was so much trauma ina lot of the groups that I was
in that my heart was breakingfor everybody.
But it wasn't serving me either, right, because mine was
peaceful.
And then, you know, zev's lifewas getting harder as he got
older.
It wasn't going to get easier.
(30:23):
It was going to get harder andharder as he got older.
And he was an adult and startedto have adult medical issues
and I always had to worry abouthis teeth and, you know, his
hair was starting to bald alittle bit.
He was 30 years old.
Life was going to get harderand even though he was really
living his best life, it wasgoing to start to change.
(30:44):
So there was a little bit ofpeace, not in me, not my peace
of missing him, but the peacethat he lived a great life and
he knew he had a great life andit was time.
So you don't get that from thetypical groups.
So you ask what helped?
(31:05):
So there's a man, a very wiseman, david Kessler.
The grief community, the wholegrief community, knows who he is
, and I joined his classes.
I didn't finish some of them, Ijoined his regular grief and
then I joined the one forparents, finished some of them,
I joined his regular grief andthen I joined the one for
parents, and then it stillwasn't enough for me because I
(31:26):
was so unsettled, I was soagitated.
I mean, in the beginning I livealone, so I have a lot of
luxuries living alone.
I woke up screaming, literallyscreaming.
It was like hearing the newsall over again.
(31:46):
And when I heard the news I wasin a hotel with a friend, so I
couldn't really scream.
But every morning for weeks Iwoke up just remembering and
just screaming Wow.
So I wanted more education, Iwanted more understanding and I
told you when I wanted to learnto do something, I do all the
reading, I take out all thebooks, whether it's you know
knitting or whatever.
And I became a certified griefeducator.
(32:07):
You did, I did, I did.
Life has gotten very busy soI've done very little with it.
I've supported a few people,but I did.
What does that mean?
That you're like a grieftherapist?
I'm a certified grief educator.
Basically, I know how tounderstand and talk to people in
grief and help them through Nottherapy, it's not therapy, it's
(32:31):
more like I would call it agrief coach.
So I will, god willing, bedoing something with it.
Just wasn't really the righttime.
I still have this, but what doyou get?
So where did you get the, the,the support or understanding of,
still that you need somethingdifferent than a regular.
I needed more.
(32:52):
I just needed more.
I needed more.
I was very agitated, a lotunsettled.
You know how, when you're insomething, it's always nice to
be in in it with somebody else.
Right, I didn't find acommunity of because and I
really, oh, and then my one ofmy, I love my brothers, they're
very, very good to me.
I mean very good to me.
(33:13):
And one of them said maybe thisis the very beginning and I had
been traveling to Israel a lot.
I went for his funeral.
We came home, sat Shiva here,went back six weeks later for
the come up.
Matzeva went back again.
It was like it was a lot.
It was eight trips, it was alot.
And my brother didn't like howI looked and he said maybe you
should talk to somebody.
(33:33):
And my feeling was maybe youshould talk to a therapist.
And my feeling was there's notherapist that I could talk to
that would really understand,because I can't talk to somebody
who didn't know him.
So I did speak to NormanBlumenthal.
He's the grief, I don'tremember his title, dr Norman
Blumenthal.
He came to my house, actuallyhe did.
(33:54):
My son died in an O'Hell home,it's the least thing.
Oh, so he knew.
Okay, because he's an amazingperson, he's just amazing.
I did go to the Shabbaton.
The Shabbaton was very lovelyand helpful.
Um, they had um, I couldn't gothis year because I I had other
things, but um, it was veryhelpful.
Um, our rabbi, our assistantrabbi in shul, rabbi Yakakov
(34:23):
Abramowitz, is a therapist andhe didn't know Zev.
He became his sister rabbi.
Like the week Zev passed away,but he got it.
He got it and he had heard andhe had seen.
So I went to talk to him.
It was similar to what NormanBloomwell said and similar to
what I was learning, but Ineeded more.
I just needed I needed moreunderstanding of what this is
like.
And you know, in the beginningI thought I was embarrassed to
(34:45):
tell people that I couldn't goto a grocery store, and
apparently it's really a thing.
I found that out.
It's like no, it's like reallygrocery store in particular,
because, especially if it'slocal, the triggers in the
grocery store are next level Wow, next level.
And he loved stores, he loved.
Anything to him was anadventure.
Everything that was at anythingwas an adventure.
(35:08):
But you know it's it's almostlike, but I want to.
We talked about how intuitivehe was.
So you know when it snows, youknow how kids love snow, but I
hate snow because I have toespecially single.
You know how kids love snow,but I hate snow because I have
to especially single, single.
I got to get rid of it myself,figure it out, get him in and
out.
So he learned early on thatwhen he would see it was snowing
(35:36):
, he used to go from wow to oh,with the eyes, with the whole
thing oh, wow, comforting too.
That, like he, wherever he was,it seems like he brought so
much Simchat to peopleTremendous, always, always.
So you say the word Simchat.
So it was important, it'simportant to me to mention his
name Nitan Elzev.
So my grants.
(35:59):
My newest grandson is 15 months.
He was born a week afterOctober 7th and I knew my
daughter was going to dosomething with the name, but I
also knew that it would be veryhard to give anybody the name
Zev.
So, my grandson, you justnailed it.
My grandson's name is NitanoSimcha.
(36:19):
Oh, nitano Simcha, oh, and wecall him Nitano.
How nice, that's beautiful.
Yeah, and you know, interesting, because you know my father's
buried in Israel.
My son is buried in Israel, sohis siblings, who's now?
(36:39):
She's 11.
So she was, she was eight, nine, six, seven my grandson.
They saw and this is veryimportant, this is really
important they saw up close whatheavy grief looks like.
They felt it, they saw it.
They were very connected to Zevbut live a million miles away,
(37:01):
so connected to him, and somehowthey knew that talking about
him was the right thing.
When I was 18, when I was I was18, 19, my very best friend's
father passed away veryunexpectedly and I was not a
(37:21):
child, I was 18, but this ismany best friend's father passed
away very unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
And I was not a child , I was 18.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But this is many years ago.
You know how old I am and Istill remember that feeling of
being afraid to say anythingabout my father or her father.
And I remember like, and itdidn't even like dawn on me.
Is she forgetting that herfather died Like it didn't even
like dawn on me?
So she she forgetting that herfather died Like it didn't even
dawn on me?
But somehow my grandchildrenhad a very strong sense to
(37:45):
always ask about him and if sheever saw me crying, rena, very
intuitive, she would go Like shewould just whisper, like she
knew.
And then one day I was in theirhat in their apartment and I
come out of the bathroom Ididn't even realize that I had
been there like a whole bunch ofhours before I even saw this.
And when you come out of thebathroom there's a wall in front
of you and I come out and shehad written out in her
(38:08):
handwriting.
And then she wrote andsomething about, because that
was his, he always said be happy.
And something about MitzvahGedol Alehiot B'Semchat Tamid.
Because that was his.
He always said be happy.
Yeah, his day program honoredhim.
And we just actually it's goingto be ready any minute we just
(38:31):
raised money for a van, ahandicapped van, for his day
program at Yachar and MitzvahGedol Alehiot B'Semchat Tamid
yeah, his day program at Yachar,and I'm going to show you.
We printed.
It's actually on my purse soyou get to see my purse, but we
printed these.
These are actually going to goout once the van is.
(38:52):
It says be happy were his words.
And in memory of Zefkan, who'sjoy lit up the world.
Wow, that's so beautifulbecause you really almost have
something tangible that's livingout.
That Simcha that he created inthis world is tangible,
tremendous.
(39:12):
Wow, he never forgot a person.
He never forgot a face.
He couldn't read.
He had some sight words hecouldn't read, but he never
forgot your face, he neverforgot you and he never forgot
who your spouse was Really.
(39:34):
So if someone is listening tothis that lost a special needs
child, I guess the question iswhat like message do you want to
give to them?
Well, the message for anybody,really anybody who had a.
I mean this was a devastatingloss because of our connection
and also the shock.
But back up one second.
(39:56):
And one thing I didn't mentionwas he died in his sleep and
he's been very, very sick many,many, many times and he could
have died any number of horribledeaths and I recognize that
early on it's back to and I saidthis, I said this at his Levio,
in my, in my Hesped.
I said very early on I used tobe I'm a recovered control freak
(40:18):
, perfectionist, control freak.
So A having a special needschild will knock that out of you
so fast.
But also the fact that Icouldn't control anything.
I couldn't control my world, Icertainly couldn't control his
and all of it.
The timing, the way somewherethere's bracha in that somewhere
(40:44):
.
Again, baruch Hashem, for me itwasn't a traumatic death and it
wasn't in a hospital onmachines, which it very easily
could have been so for me butvery early on it was looking for
the good.
But very early on it waslooking for the good.
By nature, an optimist, I alwaysthink somebody really wants to
(41:04):
be their best and if they dosomething, give them a little
grace.
Not easy for me because, again,recovering perfectionist,
recovering control freak, andthis is really the most
important message for anybody.
First of all, you'll thinkyou're losing your mind.
You will literally think youare going crazy.
(41:28):
And I was positive I was nevergoing to recover.
I was positive I'd never beable to step out of my house.
And very, very early on and Ireally wasn't, it was a summer
and I wasn't going outside I wasin my chair, in my bed, in his
chair, in his bed, anotherbracha with his bed.
I'll tell you about that.
But I had little goals formyself.
(41:51):
I knew I needed air andsunshine and not just air
conditioning and that's hospitalthen.
So I would go out tiny goals,five minutes.
I go out for five minutes andjust stand outside and say to
him, wow, and a funny storyabout his bed.
He had a hospital bed which Ihad just gotten a new one
(42:11):
because my friend's mom passedaway.
It was a new bed.
I gave his away, I moved thenew one here and it was in
August.
So we passed away in July.
It was sometime in August.
Somebody in the community putsout a WhatsApp on our community
board saying and it was a friendof my father's, actually my
father can come home from thehospital before Shabbos if
(42:33):
anybody knows where we can get ahospital bed.
I used to lay down in his bed.
I used to.
It was in his room as ahospital bed.
His room was beautifully set upand I'm like, oh my gosh, this
is, it's got to go.
And I called him up and I wasalready getting ready to light
candles and the guys came tomove the bed to her house, to
(42:53):
her mom's house, and it wasunfortunately it was the same
guys that brought the bed frommy friend's house who said, hey,
where's your son?
It was very therapeutic and itwent to somebody good and I
couldn't touch his closet.
My housekeeper did his wholecloset but it went to you know,
we bagged it up and it went andit was donated and somebody is
(43:15):
going to have some beautifullywell-kept, brand new clothes,
going to have some beautifullywell-kept, brand new clothes.
But the message is you have todo for you what you think is
right, not what everybody istelling you.
I had my friends, a lot ofreally close friends that would
like call each other, they'reworried about me, and one friend
(43:36):
in particular said she'll beokay, she knows what she's doing
.
I wrote I.
You know there's a lot ofthings.
This is one of the mostvaluable things that I got out
of all the things that I've readand studied.
There were a lot of details andyou have this fear that you're
(43:56):
going to forget the details,what it felt like, what the
phone call was like, what timeit was.
You want to remember thedetails and so very early on I
just wrote and I typed because Iactually these days type faster
than I write and I typed.
I never went back to look at it, but knowing that it's there in
(44:19):
a, in a you know cloud file,it's just, it's there, all the
pieces, I don't have to worryabout remembering them.
There was a lot and there was,and the beautiful things that
people said and the beautifulthings that people did.
You want to remember them andyou can.
You just can't.
So writing them down kind offreed me up to just be, and you
(44:42):
have to just be.
Being in the quiet for me wasimpossible.
Again, I'm alone most of thetime.
I had to have very soft musicplaying constant day and night,
even on Shabbos.
So I had my iPad set on thesoftest sleep music.
(45:04):
We know how powerful music is,but for me, apparently I've
learned in all my studies thatit's a form of meditation.
So is davening and tehillim.
Even if you're notconcentrating, it's still so.
I had music playing.
It was on my iPad on the flooron one side of my bed so that if
(45:27):
I needed to hear it, I turnedtowards it, and if it was too
much input I turned away from it.
But part of that comes.
Look, I've been in the healthand wellness field for over 13
years, so I've become, I'velearned what soothes me, what
calms me other than food.
(45:48):
I've learned what soothes me,what calms me other than food.
I've learned, and I've engaged,a lot of those things, some of
them consciously, most of themunconsciously, because I've done
some of that work before this,which, I guess, prepared me for
this.
So I think, though, what it'simportant, really for those
listening to hear that, like,whatever they need, it's okay
(46:10):
For you as music, for someoneelse it might be the exact
opposite.
They need solitude or whateverit is.
Everyone has their own needs,and whatever it is, it's, it's
really all normal and it's allokay.
And that's the biggest piece.
I really especially that wholegrocery store thing.
You really think you're crazyand people go, you can't go to
the grocery store.
People say good friends wouldsay that to me.
Some understood right away andwere happy to indulge me.
(46:34):
Literally.
They had my shopping list,whatever I needed, and I went to
pick it up because I can go tosee them.
I just couldn't see thestrangers.
I didn't walk in myneighborhood for months and
months, but you have to know,you and you people thought I
isolated, but I didn't.
I took some phone calls, but themost important thing, really
(46:55):
the most important thing andthis is like in ancient cultures
, people try to say things thatthey think is going to be
helpful.
We all know some of those awfulthings that people say,
especially the one where, like,especially when it's special
needs, especially when it'ssomebody that's sick, you know,
wow, what are you going to dowith your time now?
(47:16):
Somebody said to me and theysaid it caring, and I get the
question but like, did youreally just say that to me,
right?
So it's like the importance ofjust sitting and I'm going to
tell you something.
A friend of one of my, very oneof my shoppers.
(47:37):
Let's call them one of myshoppers.
I actually call them my secretservice.
So my birthday was two weeksafter he passed away, so I guess
like a week-ish after Shiva,two weeks after he passed away,
so I guess like a week-ish afterShiva, and she texted me this
is one of my secret service.
She texted me.
This was the text I'm in yourbackyard on your deck, I have
(47:58):
snacks, coffee.
Come out only if you want to.
That's so nice.
I was in my bed bed.
It was a very difficult day,took a minute, but I did go out
and we didn't talk, we just sat.
Really, that is the mostimportant thing.
You cannot.
There is nothing anybody couldsay in a, especially any parent,
(48:25):
especially a special needsparent.
Nothing anybody could sayexcept a memory of him.
And I can only imagine how hardthis is.
Yeah, that doesn't feel clicheto you, not at all.
The one that.
The one that is really hard tohear is I have no words, don't
(48:49):
even try because there are nowords, but saying that shuts
down conversation.
I was with a friend, friantif,one of the Amtovim.
I don't remember which, oh,pesach, end of Pesach, the first
year, and we lit candles.
I was a rack, lit a yardsidecandles was the last day and she
(49:10):
just said tell me what you missmost.
That's really, you know, whatpeople need to know, that they
don't have to be scared to bringit up.
The tears are always there andthey have to come.
They have to come, right, youknow, it's the people that can
(49:35):
sit with you.
And why am I?
I describe these certain friendsthat, really, because they
would sit always, likeunintentionally, say a memory of
him, repeat a memory that theyhad of him.
That's what you want to hear.
(49:55):
It seems like they don't wantto rub salt in your wound, but
that is all you want to hear,right, especially of a child.
You want to hear that yourchild is not forgotten, right,
right, wow, I'm here, just bethere, send the text.
(50:18):
I didn't answer my phone for avery long time, a very long time
, unless it was like immediate,immediate, secret service,
people, level people.
Um, I didn't answer my phoneand I would answer text slowly
when I could.
Right, right, just, I'm thinkingabout you right and then the
(50:39):
big if the again.
I'm gonna people I hope knowthis by now, but never say to
somebody who's either, i've'vebeen sick, I've had a sick kid
in the hospital.
I've had a sick kid and Icouldn't leave the house and I
said Shiva twice, never say thewords.
If you need anything, let meknow.
You may as well just poke me inthe eye with a fork.
(51:01):
If you ever say that, you sayto me and I have friends that
did this naturally you say to meI'm going to CVS in an hour.
Text me your list.
I'm going to the library.
Do you have anything to return?
Or, even more specifically, I'mgoing to the grocery.
Do you need bread or milk?
(51:22):
Yes, mother might not realizethat she needs anything, but if
you say bread or milk, she mightbe like I do not need bread,
but I need half a glass.
Can I bring you a coffee?
I'm going to get coffee.
Can I bring you one?
Right, how do you want it?
Not, it's look, unfortunately.
Fortunately, we've had a lot ofexperience with, you know,
(51:44):
needing meal trains and all that, and it's interesting.
One of my daughters loved whenthe people dropped off the meal
train.
My other daughter just couldn'ttake.
It hid in her room, literally.
We've had meal trains manytimes for a very long time and
you know, it's like when peoplewould drop it off, the ones that
(52:08):
put a note I'm thinking aboutyou was.
It was something.
It was like I.
It was more than just like, ohmy God, I got this meal together
for you, right?
More than that, it was likethink of you and I'm here, right
, right, listen, you know,having no knowing how to really
show empathy is a skill.
It's a skill that it's anenviable skill, in my opinion,
(52:31):
like if someone has that, I envyit.
I don't know if I have it ornot.
I hope I do, I wish I do, butwhen it comes so naturally to
people, it's amazing and it's so, you know it.
Just, it's so comforting forthose that you know need it.
I tell my grandchildren, theolder ones, I say so.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
She's 11 now he's nine, and my son is two and a
half years.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I say to them you are the luckiest, unlucky
grandchildren little children.
I said, because they had to dealwith it.
It was very awful.
It was very awful and you alsolearned you had to deal with it.
So I'm sad for you but I'mhappy for you because you know
how to deal with it Right.
(53:16):
And it took them a long time.
They've been to my father'skever.
They didn't go to Zev's untilmore recently, but they were
here last summer.
They painted rocks.
They took them back, so he hasa few painted rocks on his, on
his camera.
It took a while, they weren'tready to go, but they just, they
(53:37):
just get it and they're smartkids.
I don't know that they're thatmuch smarter than the kids next
door, but they've had this so upclose and personal.
They also give me my space whenI need it.
And then my granddaughter.
Something interesting I was in.
I go to Israel for his yardsite, obviously, so I was there
this past year.
It was July 11th.
He died on July 4th, which wasbizarre because he hated
(54:01):
fireworks, hated fireworks,hated fibers.
But so July 11th and it wasalso a day that my brother, we
had an opportunity and he askedme if I wanted to go.
It was a day of the art siteand we were meeting at the
cemetery, the whole family comes.
It's a whole beautiful thingand my daughter makes a dinner.
(54:22):
We were meeting at the cemeteryat 5 o'clock and my brother
said I don't know if you want togo, but we have an opportunity
to go on a mini tour down southto the Nova site, to the car
park, to stay road to Bayri, andthen one of the thing that we
didn't get to, and he goes.
I know it's the art site, butwe're going to be back and
you're welcome to come with us.
(54:43):
I went on the day of the artsite and my granddaughter she
was 10 at the time she looks atme, she goes you're going down
South, you, with her finger.
You don't have enough traumas,but but I'm going to tell you it
was very healing for me.
It was very healing.
(55:04):
It was horrible, it washorrific, but it was very
healing Because one of thethings when life was difficult,
like many, many years ago, oneof the things that was very
important to me when I wasreally I was working very hard.
I'm a single mom, a lot of hours, intense job, something the
beach pulled me.
So I would drive to Long Beach,even if I only had five, 10
(55:26):
minutes, and walk on theboardwalk with music, soft music
, on, often one song on repeatbecause it's very meditative.
That's a hint for people whothink they don't meditate.
You might, because you don'thave like the startle of a new
song coming on that you may notwant to listen to.
So one song on repeat and Iwould just have to see the ocean
(55:49):
to see that there's a worldbigger than my little house and
the drama and awful thingshappening in my little house and
the beach was very and goingdown South.
Also, while they're giving youthe tours, they're also talking
about the miracles that happened.
And there's a much bigger worldout there.
(56:11):
We don't run it, we can't evenpretend to run it, and there's a
greater, there's a greatermission.
Somewhere I know I'm exactlywhere I'm supposed to be, wow.
Well, I think it's a beautifulending message, but I do always
(56:33):
like to give my guests theopportunity.
If there's something that wedidn't get to that you want to
leave with when you know, Iwould ask you a question what
are the when you interviewpeople?
I've heard many, you know.
What are you curious about?
I'm you about?
It's important for me thatpeople understand that this is
(56:53):
gigantic, but you will recover.
You won't really recover is notthe right word.
You will get through it becauseand the grief comes and goes
Purim my son's bar mitzvah wason Purim.
I don't yet know what I'm doingon Purim and it was a Friday,
his bar mitzvah year.
And we always celebrated hisbirthday on Purim and his
(57:14):
birthday is this Shabbos, and Idon't know yet what I'm doing,
but it changes and that's thething to know.
There are some days where it'sgoing to feel very, very heavy
Every time there's a Simcha inthe family.
It's twofold, because I can goto a wedding much easier in
(57:35):
Lakewood than I used to and havea lot of weddings in Lakewood.
But he loved weddings, loved,oh my God.
You took him with you toweddings, yeah, till more
recently when it was harderbecause it was harder to get him
up in the morning.
But many, oh my gosh, loved,loved.
And I had a bunch of weddingsright after he passed.
It was very difficult Familywedding Wedding I did.
(57:59):
They were very close family.
My nephew, niece.
I went.
Those were very difficult.
I didn't drive, I had somebodydrive me.
It was very difficult but ofcourse I went.
I you know, for those I wentMany things.
I didn't go to many invitationsI did not take but anybody
close to me it wasn't easy butit was, I wanted to.
(58:24):
I could have also said no,thank you, but you know I had
the unique I was alone, whichlike it was awful and it was
great because I could dowhatever I wanted.
So like it was awful and it wasgreat.
And you have to appreciatewhere you are.
Again, it's all min ha-shamayim, the way he died, how he died
(58:47):
Even early on in my daughter andher has-been in the shul said
this is how she started.
He would have hated to missthis.
It's like it's this thing andyou know I'm not Hasidic, I'm as
modern Orthodox as they comeYoung Israel family through and
(59:09):
through.
Why you?
Young Israel family through andthrough, and it's this concept
of.
I don't control it and this iswhat's meant for me, and I don't
know why but, this is it.
You know what, without yourAmuna, how could you go on?
So it's amazing how strong yourmoon is.
Speaker 1 (59:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
And one other message to people is and I know that
most of the people who youraudience is probably people who
are heavily in grief right, notnecessarily A lot of people that
never even went through grief,listen.
So that is an important that isactually one of my missions.
I just haven't had time to doanything about.
It is one of my real missionsis how to support people in
(59:53):
grief.
Um, because you, you need tonot be judged when you are
laying in bed on your son'sbirthday or not going to the
grocery store for 10 months, orcertain places you may never be
able to walk into.
My son's house was on CasinoBoulevard.
(01:00:14):
Anytime I'm on the LAE and Isee Casino Boulevard, I lose a
little breath.
But the ability to be withpeople and not judge them for
how they're doing it you don'tknow how you would do it, but
it's you know that phrase you doyou, especially here.
(01:00:35):
And then the other message forthe general population is know
what comforts you.
We're all going to go throughsomething.
Best case scenario.
Best case scenario we're goingto bury both our parents and a
couple of older siblings, if youhappen to have them.
Best case scenario.
(01:00:57):
And I was very angry when myfather died by the way, I know
this is the topic here because Iwas very angry at how
unprepared we are for grief as acommunity, as a society, as a
Jewish community, society ingeneral.
I was very angry because myfather had a great life.
He didn't.
(01:01:18):
He had a great life, his legacy, his children, his
grandchildren, hisgreat-grandchildren.
You know he doesn't considerhimself a Holocaust survivor
because he was in Siberia, theSiberian hotel for the war, but
he had a great life and he madea great life and he left my
mother beautiful, the ability tohave a beautiful life, and the
(01:01:43):
misery that I felt after he diedI felt was unfair.
And the misery that I feltafter he died, I felt was unfair
.
I'm not talking about sadnesswas one thing, but the misery
felt like we were veryunprepared for it.
But health and wellness is myfield.
I'm a nurse by trade, a coachfor the past 13 years and I knew
(01:02:04):
the things that calmed me.
Because we all go throughmoments.
We all have moments where wejust want to scream, kick, yell,
break something, drive off acliff if it's that crazy.
But know what you need, whatquiets your mind, what quiets
your soul, and I already had alot of that down pat.
(01:02:25):
Okay, so that's fortunate foryou.
But that's the message Knowwhat can comfort you, know what
you know.
Some people need a party, otherpeople need.
I needed a lot of.
I need a lot of quiet.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I needed a lot of quiet.
Sometimes people may need cheerand some people may need to
organize every drawer and closetin their house.
Correct, correct, but no, youhave to know yourself.
There's no right or wrong.
It's you have to know yourselfand you have to really be
attuned to what can calm you.
Wow, okay, well, thank you soso much for coming on, really
(01:03:04):
appreciate it.
It's my pleasure.
I'm sorry it took us so long toconnect.
It was nice, it's really apleasure and really, if I can
support anybody, just send themmy way I'm happy to.
This is not a financial.
This wasn't something I waslooking to monetize.
This is just something that Iit was not easy to find the
(01:03:26):
right community for me becauseit was such a unique situation.
Right, right, okay, I willdefinitely pass that message
along if anyone reaches out tome.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
You've just listened to an episode of the Relief from
Grief podcast with MiriamRiviat, brought to you by Mayrim
.
For more episodes, visit theMayrim website at wwwmayrimorg.
Help us reach more people whomight benefit from this podcast.
If you know someone who couldfind it helpful, please share it
with them.
If you have questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
(01:04:03):
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, we'd love to
hear from you.
Email us at relieffromgrief atmayrimorg.
We look forward to having youjoin us in the next episode.
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