August 27, 2025 • 49 mins
Rabbi Akiva Sutofsky was living a fulfilling life — a beloved school therapist, a devoted father, and especially close to his youngest son, Yitzy.
One day, Yitzy complained of a sore throat. When he looked in the mirror with a flashlight, he noticed a large lump. The doctor diagnosed it as an infection and prescribed antibiotics — but they didn’t help. Nor did the next round.
And so, the Sutofsky family’s routine life was turned upside down as they began the harrowing journey of cancer with their beloved son and brother, Yitzy.
Yitzy was an intuitive, kind-hearted boy who easily connected with others. The entire community rallied around him, davening with love and urgency. He celebrated his bar mitzvah in a shul in Philadelphia, not far from the hospital where he was receiving treatment. And then, he began to speak with startling spiritual clarity:
“Don’t be sad,” he would say. “My mission in this world is coming to an end. But if you ever feel down, do mitzvos and daven for my neshama. Maybe that will help ease your pain.”
Yitzy was niftar surrounded by his family. The entire community mourned with them, deeply impacted by his brief but powerful life.
In this episode, Rabbi Sutofsky shares the story of Yitzy’s illness and petirah, as well as the pain, faith, and growth that emerged from his grief.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by
Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought toyou by Mayrim.
Mayrim is an organizationdedicated to supporting families
who have experienced the lossof a child.
It was founded by EloiNishmat's, nechama Liba and
Miriam Holman.
Despite her illness, miriamdevoted herself to addressing
(00:22):
the needs of parents andsiblings grappling with the
immense pain of losing a child.
She felt this loss deeply,having experienced it firsthand
when her older sister, nechamaLiba, passed away.
Mehrim continues to uplift andexpand on the work Miriam began,
a mission carried forward byher parents with great
dedication.
(00:43):
If you have any questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, please email us
at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hi everybody.
Thank you so much for joiningme here today on the Relief from
Grief by Mayrim Podcast.
Today we have on here fromPittsburgh Rabbi Stefatsky.
He is the therapist of theHillel Academy in Pittsburgh and
he also has his privatepractice.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Sure, sure Happy to.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And yeah, I guess, why don't you start with your
story about your son?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Okay, so my son Yitzi , or our son Yitzi he was our
youngest boy.
Five children, he's theyoungest and he was an
unbelievable son and basicallyhe was, you know, really the
glue I start from anywhere, butwas really the glue I start from
(01:46):
anywhere, but he's the glue ofthe family and he was an
unbelievable athlete,unbelievable learner, the
coolest kid, the nicest kid, thesweetest kid, really just a
very, very unique kid.
He used to go birdwatchingevery single week ever since
COVID.
That was one of the things thescience teacher sent home.
(02:08):
Try to like look at birds andhe could hear probably 20, 30
chirps and tell you exactly youknow what bird it is.
Just such an unbelievable,brilliant kid.
Yeah, just loved learning,loved diving, and I was very,
very close to them because hewas the only boy home at the
time.
All of a sudden I was inYeshiva and all the three girls
(02:30):
weren't home and connected onmany, many different levels
learning and nature and sportsand we were really besties, you
know, best friends.
And one day his throat washurting him and he took my
wife's phone to the bathroom andhe looked in the mirror with
(02:50):
the flashlight and he had thisvery weird swollen thing in the
back of his throat.
So he went to the doctor.
It looked, it looked verystrange, the doctor.
Doctor said, oh it's, it's aswollen tonsil, um, and then we
took antibiotics and it washurting him.
You know, every time we wentsomewhere he would find like a
cold compress, like lay his faceon.
(03:11):
It was like it was hurting him.
And then we went back a fewweeks later.
They said, oh, it's not working, we'll switch antibiotics.
And then they said, oh, go toan ENT.
And the ENT said, oh, it lookslike an ear infection of sorts
and sort of infection.
So he gave us differentantibiotics and then, after it
didn't go down and it wasdefinitely bothering him a lot,
my wife took him to the doctorand they said you may want to go
(03:34):
to the hospital, it could becancer, that's what.
So, yeah, I mean that's.
And after that I could just goon forever if you want.
I mean, basically we went tothe hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
How old was he?
I don't remember if he said itor not.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, so you'd see, when he found, when he was
diagnosed, he was 12.
And then he was NIFJ.
I mean, 10 months later he wasNIFJ, so he was 13.
But yeah, so we went to thedoctor, doctor, and he ended up
having a cancer calledrhabdomyosarcoma.
I'm not the biggest expert init, my wife knows everything
(04:09):
about it.
I kind of went into more oflike a freeze mode, you know
like, but rhabdomyosarcoma hehad different mutations and
different.
It just really ended up beinglike one in a million what he
had and it was not a good.
I mean, they gave hope in thebeginning.
You know, they they give ittheir all.
It's a very, very intensetreatment.
(04:30):
It's a 42 week, uh, treatmentof very, very harsh chemotherapy
and also radiation.
Yeah, it was very tough.
I mean it was very, very toughand in the beginning actually we
had this like a majorappointment with the doctors,
(04:51):
you know when they let us knowexactly what he had.
And we already knew becauseit's on the app.
It goes on the UPMC app, youknow, your health insurance app.
It's already there.
So my wife already knew.
But we went for this majormeeting One second, you found
out that he has cancer from theapp I guess because what they
put it in your records you knowlike it's, it's in there so my
wife basically knew I mean,maybe she know exactly or
(05:14):
whatever, but you know we knewgoing in, you know they already,
they already told us, like youknow, they know it's cancer,
which kind.
They were unsure.
But we had this like four likethis, like I don't know, a few
hour meeting, maybe like an houror two, where they went through
every say, everything about thecancer and the treatment,
everything that can happenduring chemo, and my wife is my
(05:35):
wife is very engaged the doctorwas taking notes and I was.
Just.
Me and disney were just likehugging each other and yeah, he
came in with you to this meeting.
He had to hear I don't know whyI mean the doctors asked him to
be there or they just assumed hewould be there if he was there
wow I mean I think it was over.
I mean I'm not, you know, wewere just like kind of frozen
(05:56):
together.
But really at the end it wasreally really terrible.
Like I don't know why they hadhim in there.
But they said, and because ofthe chemo he won't be able to
have any children.
So like um, you'd see,definitely he mean he heard it
he wasn't exactly sure what theywould say the chance, whatever,
but it's a totally differentstory.
But we ended up asking thewhole shiloh, because you could
(06:17):
do a surgery that could preserveyou know something.
It was like a whole.
You know it's a whole differentpart of the story.
But yeah, so Yitzi wasunbelievable.
We started treatments andbasically my wife was like a
rock, mom was a rock.
She was, I mean, like I guessyou never want to see anybody
(06:42):
have to go into this type ofgear, you know, but like she was
just like nonstop committed,24-7.
And he kind of moved into mybed, I moved into his room and
my wife just took care of himthe whole time.
And I mean there were timeswhen it was, you know it was
okay.
You know, in the beginning itwas very, very rough because
(07:03):
they forgot to put him on acertain anti-nausea medication
unbelievable oversight, crazy.
And he was very, very weak,lost a lot of weight, but he had
weeks where he was good.
You know we would go out, wewould you know we hung out a lot
.
We would go take walks and, youknow, find snakes, and you know,
(07:27):
I mean he couldn't really dosports, he was too shrach, you
know, very weak, but hedefinitely gave it his all.
You know, he really, reallywanted to.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
How long was he sick for before he was nipped in?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
He was sick, I think, for about 10 months.
For about 10 months, your 10months, and he your wife fall
apart.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Was her like falling apart harder, since she was like
had to say she stayed so strongduring when he was sick?
Say again like because you keepon describing her as a rock.
While he was sick, when he wasactually nifter, was her falling
apart like like very, very hugeand intense I mean she, she
fell apart because her son waslifted.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You know, I don't think it was any more.
You know, if anything I wouldsay it's almost like I mean,
there's a default that it's justsuper painful and terrible to
lose a child.
You know, no one should everhave to go through that ever.
And I think we definitely, um,we definitely not suffered, but
we definitely, you know, we wentthrough that.
(08:32):
That.
The more you know the morningperiod, you know, I feel is for
sure, I think you know, you know, and it was actually very it
was excruciating because youknow, we, we took care of, about
, but my, I don't think it wasextra hard because she put so
much into it, if anything.
My wife said very khashoggi,she said that obviously it's
super painful but it's a verybeautiful thing, to painfully
(08:52):
beautiful thing to be able to bewith someone from the second
they're born to the secondthey're nifted.
It's like you have someone'swhole life that you took care of
, from care, from beginning toend.
It's a very, it's a certain, Idon't know, closure or healing
part to it.
You know, my mom is there forhis um, his tia seshama.
We were in the room for that.
So like we were there and mywife is there this whole life,
(09:14):
you know, from birth until hislast breath.
So, yeah, I think that wasalmost like a nakama I would.
It wasn't even extra morepainful.
I think it was probably morelike a Nechama.
You know, that's what I think.
I mean.
He also said a lot of things atthe end of his life that gave
us a Nechama, you know.
(09:34):
He also said a lot of female.
Sure, he wants to like a lot ofstories, but he had 40, so
basically, we had chemotherapyfirst and then went to
Philadelphia for radiation andit was.
That was a very, very beautifulexperience.
You know what I mean.
It was very, very, so muchchesed, unbelievable, chesed,
(09:57):
unbelievable.
We stayed at the RonaldMcDonald House in Philadelphia
and it's basically unbelievable.
It's like a 120 story, likehotel and everything is free.
You're like the rooms are free,the food's free, they have a
game room, they have busing tothe hospital every 20 minutes
for free.
It's like I went, I went to thefront desk.
(10:19):
I'm like I don't know if youknow if you're Jewish or like,
but something called Chesed andlike this whole house is like a
house of chesed.
Now, of course, she ended upbeing Jewish, as you knew what I
was talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But like.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I mean High Lifeline RCCS also amazing, you know,
next level, but like this isjust like such a unique
experience.
So my wife stayed with him forseven weeks.
I went back to Pittsburghduring the week and I went to
Philadelphia for Shabbos andthen we had a Bar Mitzvah we
could talk about that.
But he so at about 40 weeks weactually thought that he was
(10:51):
going to be okay.
I mean not okay.
We thought we'd get through thewhole.
Basically he'll go onmaintenance, you know like he'll
get through the whole thing.
His scans will be all clear,and then you just go on
maintenance the whole thing.
His scans would be all clear,and then you just go on
maintenance, you know, wait forrelapse, you know.
But like we thought we weretalking about if he's going to
do Shiva and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Maintenance mean like remission.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah, remission.
Yeah, we thought for a minuteat week number like 38, we were
like wow, like we're almost done, like scans were pretty good
and like the doctors were happyand like he was feeling good.
We told my going to yeshiva, hewanted to go to denver.
We thought we should go tophilly, he wanted to go to
denver, my other son, denver.
I remember walking to shootwith him, like wow, like we're
(11:33):
actually handling go to yeshiva.
But then his, his eye looked alittle weird, whatever.
And I said, oh, it looks weird.
He went to the doctor and thecancer was basically like
mummish everywhere, likeeverywhere, everywhere, like the
list was so long where thecancer was, like I said, I told
my wife that she just tell uswhere the cancer is, not, you
know, like his pinky, you knowthat's it everywhere else.
(11:54):
So I and I didn't know how totell him.
I didn't know.
I didn't know how to tell him.
I didn't know how to tell himthat the doctor, almost like
they, didn't feel like it wasworth it to even go on with
treatment because we reallycouldn't do anything anymore.
I didn't know how to tell himand I slept in his room in the
hospital bed that night with him.
I got up in the morning, I camehome, I went to Rite Aid with
(12:16):
one of my son-in-laws and when Igot back home he was on the
phone with my daughter and mydaughter said Daddy, take the
phone.
He's saying crazy things.
So I said Izzy, what's going on?
I said, daddy, I love you,hashem loves you.
We can't take it out on Hashem,we can't be mad at anybody.
But I finished my mission onthis world and I mean he kept it
(12:41):
going on.
My daughter typed it while hewas saying it because we don't
want to forget what he wassaying.
I can't look at the text, it'stoo painful to look at it, but
he just said like he did.
He did a lot of chuvah.
My wife just told me on thephone today that she was
listening to the recordings ofhim where he was saying how he
was very upset that maybe peoplethought he was more chashid
than he was and he was like he's.
(13:01):
You know, if someone would givehim a million dollars, he would
take the million dollarsinstead of learning, you know,
and he feels so terrible aboutthat.
And then you know he can't bemad at Hashem, you know, he just
is like he asked for a saferturtle.
He asked that we give him stockevery day.
He asked that we give stockevery day.
He asked anytime it's hard forus to do mitzvah, we should
think about him to give uschizah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like you know, he really was a very.
How much was this before he wasniftah?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean he was always like super unique, you know, but
like these type of things.
Probably Probably the last,maybe like three, four weeks,
where he kind of knew, knew.
I think he really understoodthat he is going to die.
He knew that he's going to belifted.
We had a whole mindset with hisname.
(13:47):
We asked him about changing hisname but he said not to change
his name.
He should be able to learnwhatever.
That was our last ditch effort.
Basically, I think he reallyjust I remember he told my
daughter, he, I mean, he told usthings I want to say patera,
I'm scared to go to shemayim,who am I going to know there?
(14:08):
He said what do you mean?
You know?
We said his daddy's there andyou know my grandparents are
there and you know, yeah, youknow it's gonna be, it's gonna
be so nice.
And yeah, he was.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I got very so you never told him like, oh, don't
talk like that.
You just kind of validated himand tried to answer his
questions.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, well, I, you know I don't want to tell him
not to talk like that becausehe's going to die.
You know I'm not going to give.
You know we definitely gave him.
We did everything for him andwe tried everything.
You know, pchai Leithar, rccs,different types of medicines, we
did everything.
We did everything.
But you know, I mean duringthose first nine, ten months
(14:52):
where he wasn't on the plate, soevery time we'd bring it up we
would say Maissa, today you'realive.
You know, with Hashem, tomorrowit'll be the same and we have
to day by day you know whateverit's a word I heard, actually,
but you know, one day at a time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
And that's what we did.
And then at the end it was likea very it was very, I would say
very, not abrupt, but like itwent from like pretty good to
like very bad.
You know so, but my wife reallyalways thought the whole time
that it was such a severe cancerwith very terrible relapse, you
(15:31):
know.
You know, if it relapses it'slike basically it's over anyway
and it usually, and what he hadhe had all these different
fusion positive mutations.
It was really just not good.
But yeah, he was a very, veryspecial, very good boy.
I mean very special boy,unbelievable boy.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So should we talk about his.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Should we talk about his bar mitzvah?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yes, well, I'll tell you Yitzi, he was such an
unbelievable kid.
First of all, he made such animpact.
You know, like I'm verycompetitive in sports and my
oldest son is like anunbelievable athlete and his
name is Yehuda and Yitzi waslike Yehuda 2.0, because Yitzi
was like just unbelievable.
And at Shiva we got lettersfrom non-Jewish mothers who went
(16:23):
to the game just to watch thebest kid be the nicest kid.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Really.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, their sons weren't even playing.
They went to see Yitzi when wasthis Pittsburgh.
Yeah, pittsburgh it's calledSquirrel Hole Baseball.
It's like a lot of teams haveall-star games, travel stuff, if
stuff like out of town you cando these type of things, you
know.
So, like people came to watchhim, you know people.
You know they want to renamethe street that goes up to the
(16:50):
baseball field.
After you see, the guy did it,for, like the guy in charge,
randy frankel, is jewish.
He said he was the best kidever had in 50 years and just
all around you know he's likethe best athlete, the nicest kid
, mom's just sweetest kid.
And then he this is by mitzvah,so he, oh yeah.
So when he was 10, during COVID,he got up every morning because
(17:15):
you know, school started at acertain time during COVID.
You know he had to go log on tosee his Rebbe because he
started.
So he would get up early and hewould do Tup Sukkum every day
when he was 10, of Baha'iBukh-Lukai Say.
I don't know how to learn, sohe taught himself how to learn
with online Rebbe Fessel and hedid Baha'i Bukh-Lukai Say every
day, tup Sukkum.
And he taught himself the BaharBilqayseh and Naftur when he
(17:37):
was 10.
And then, before Bar Mitzvah,we got a Bar Mitzvah teacher,
rabbi Mandelbaum, just to kindof go over with him.
But then he got sick right awaywhen he was 12.
He got sick so he didn't reallysee it.
And then we were in Chopp,philadelphia for Bar Mitzvah and
I actually just looked up anemail.
I saw my daughter put together.
They wanted to make a batmitzvah for him at my Mechutin
(17:57):
Rabbi Reber Mayor Reber, who hasa kudel in Philadelphia and the
Rebers were unbelievable people.
They said, yeah, we're going tomake it be shmach, be amazing.
And we were around.
We were down in the house.
It was Friday, it was ErevShabbos.
He had radiation that day and Isaid, yes, do you want to go?
I'm not feeling well.
And then he felt bad.
He felt bad because he wasletting me down.
(18:25):
So I feel like I want him to doit.
I want him to have not evenlaying I want.
All his sisters are going to bethere.
My son was in for Mishiva also,so he ended up going and we got
there and Friday night it wasvery beautiful.
We had a whole meal, just afamily.
And then Friday night he wentupstairs to the shul and he went
over the whole laning with myother son and then Shabbos day
(18:46):
he actually laned Bahar, bukha,koyse and Naftara and while he
was laning he saw a securitycamera in the corner and he
actually asked me to ask myMechutin if it's possible to see
if they got him on video, andmy mokhun doesn't want to,
doesn't want me to tell anybody,but the video actually captured
(19:07):
um, yitzis bar mitzvah and thenight before learning with my
son, you know, like going overthe parasha.
So let me have you knowsecurity footage of yitzis bar
Mitzvah, which I probably willnever watch ever again because I
can't handle it, but my wifewatches it and we've seen it and
, yeah, very, very special forsure.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Was that a mistake?
Isn't the video not supposed to?
Was that a mistake?
Just because it's Travis andit's not supposed?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
to be Mitzvah.
No, the way the psalm is, isthat really?
A lot of shuls in Köln havevideos but as far as I know, the
Pesach is like if the screenthat it's recording on is off,
it's okay.
Like, a lot of shuls have videocameras, security cameras, but
you could always get the video.
Obviously, no shuls give outbar mitzvah videos, right, it's
not what we do.
But for Yitzi, I pulled thecancer card on my mikhutin and
(20:03):
he, he said he said okay, hesaid not to tell anybody about.
Um, yeah, so we had that andyeah, actually had a, had a.
I've had a client who didn't Imy own practice, who doesn't
live in philadelphia, but he wasthere for that, that shabbos,
and he didn't realize that me,the therapist was yiti's.
So we spoke about somehow itcame up and he said that was the
most special Shabbos.
(20:24):
That kid at his bar mitzvah, itwas the most special Shabbos of
his entire life.
I said I don't want to tell youit was my son, like that was
you know?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But that's like probably one of those like
memories to hold on to sotightly, like for someone to say
that that's like major.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of memories.
We have a lot of memories.
We did a lot of stuff together.
We all did.
I mean, he was very close toall my kids and he yeah, we have
a lot, a lot, a lot of memoriestogether.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
A lot.
How did?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
your children handle his fatigue?
It's a good question.
You know, in the beginning,when he was sick like mom was in
the beginning I remember Icalled my, we found, we found
that I think on a Thursday and Icalled my kids Thursday night
and if you know, izzy, he's likethe sweetest kid, like it's
(21:21):
like it's so crazy.
I remember all my daughtersfreaked out Like they just
crying and screaming.
You know it was really bad.
And then you know they gatheredthemselves and you know they
were very like.
You know we started to film achat and I mean filming a chat
(21:43):
was like even now people say youknow they gathered themselves
and you know they were very like.
You know we started the HilmaChat and I mean Hilma Chat was
like even now people say I meanI think it happens a lot, like
the Hilma Chat still goes evenafter someone's lifted.
But like you know, they're very, very on top of Hilma Chat,
making people show people to geton Shabbos.
And you know they did a lot ofstuff for him and it was, it was
, it was hard, it was very, veryhard.
I mean when they came up theywere all they're all out of the
(22:03):
house.
So when they came home.
You know, if you felt well,shabbos is nice.
If he didn't feel well, it wasvery hard to see him just like
being nauseous.
All shabbos, you know.
But yeah, each one handleddifferently.
You know, some of them likesome of them don't talk about
him at all.
Some of them talk about him alot.
Some of them handle itdifferently.
You know, some of them likesome of them don't talk about
him at all.
Some of them talk about him alot.
Some of them are in the middle.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You know, I guess it's like, but I would say
balance yourself as like afather and a therapist, like
they don't want therapy from you, probably I don't.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I don't give them therapy.
I know Everybody's different.
You know we all mourndifferently, we grieve
differently and I never forcedthem to talk about it.
You know.
I mean sometimes you want totalk about Yitzi Like if they're
all there for Shabbos.
You know, like on the yard sideyou made a beautiful thing.
We had a sima shas on the yardside.
(22:55):
I spoke at school about Yitzi.
That was emotional becauseeverybody, the whole school, was
in mourning.
I told you they're renaming theschool after him.
It's called the Yitzi SatopsiCampus.
It's like an $11 millionbuilding.
Actually, one of my daughterswho's engaged now, she had a
very, very hard time.
She was very angry, for sure,very upset and very sad and very
(23:18):
angry.
But I think the fact that Yitziwas saying all those things
like can't be mad at Hashem, Ifinished my mission in this
world.
We have to love Hashem.
You know he loves us.
We'll be together forever,always.
(23:38):
I think the fact that he wasable to say all those things of
like closure really gave thatdaughter and all of us really.
But that daughter especially,like a massive nechama, like she
was mamash upset, like angryand she really got a nechama out
of that, like you saw like a,um massive difference.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know so, so did you like keep at the wedding and
like your child is missing,like you're not making a wedding
with your full family uh, youknow, we never um, we never um,
we never made it well, we neverhad a simcha yet without him.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
You, you know, I mean we like my niece got married,
but like a family Simcha, youknow, my daughter got engaged
and Yitzi wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's a year and a half, you told me right.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, my other daughter had ababy whose name they actually.
She actually named him Yitzi,oh wow.
Yeah yeah, his name is Yitzhak Y.
Yeah, his name is Yitzchak, I'msorry, yaakov Yitzchak, and we
call him Yitzi.
I mean, it's very weird to callhim Yitzi.
You know, like we still we'renot perfect at it.
You know, like his othergrandmother called him Yitzi and
his mother called him littleYitzi, we call him like I mean,
(25:00):
he was a baby, it was in a Choma, you had the Briss, for sure.
Yeah, it's still.
It's raw.
You know, it's very raw, forsure, very raw.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I got married like a year and I got engaged right
after my brother's first year atpsych.
So I got married but I was lessthan a year and a half, you
know, after he was in the fair.
And I remember, like, when thephotographer said, so this is
the whole family, and I saw thatpain that crossed my father's
face, I was like, oh my gosh,why didn't, like I say anything
to this photographer beforehand?
Like that was like like I sawthat pain, it was so huge.
(25:35):
Like that was like I saw thatpain, it was so huge.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Right, right, because you were taking family pictures
.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
You're saying we were taking family pictures and my
brother wasn't here and like itwas very bad.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how we're
going to do it.
You know we've taken pictures.
Well, we've definitely takenpictures since then Not hasana,
family pictures but um, I thinkit's gonna be on people's minds,
you know, I'll probably saysomething about it, you know, I
(26:04):
guess.
But yeah, I mean it's, I'm sureit'll be emotional, you know.
I mean, just thinking about itmakes me very, very sad.
Actually, like you know, it's abit emotional.
Like, oh yeah, like my othertwo daughters got mad, like,
like this son-in-law he is theonly son-in-law who he didn't
experience it see, like my othertwo son-in-law very close to
them, you know we, yeah, hislast two nights he was alive.
(26:27):
We had my other son-in-law, heplays guitar.
We had the last two nights hewasn't conscious but, um, well,
they were there for a few days.
So he, he definitely interactedwith them.
Like he, he's very weak.
So one of my sons is Shlomi.
He was, ah, rip, shlomi.
And then my other, my otherson-in-law, boaz, would try to
(26:48):
steal candy.
Boaz, I see you taking candy.
And then he, he, you know, Ithink he had a seizure and he
was unconscious.
He was basically like justsedated, I guess, for two days
and every night we had actuallya crazy story.
We had a kumtits in his roomfor those last two nights my
son-in-law is very beautifulguitar, whatever so we sang and
(27:10):
it was really really emotional,really really, really emotional.
And the first night they werethere, we sang and they left
very, very late.
The second night they werethere, we were singing and it
was so crazy At 12 o'clock mywife said okay, it's 12 o'clock,
everybody go home.
So everybody just got up andleft.
And I remember thinking tomyself at that moment I'm like
(27:33):
that is so weird, everybody'sgot up and left, like last night
.
She said everybody go home,nobody left, everybody stays and
nobody like just I just said 12o'clock, okay, 12 o'clock,
everybody go.
And then everybody left, theyshut the door and me and my wife
were back to Yitzi and we heldhis hand and he took his last
like his you know, yitzi is theShabbat basically his last
(27:54):
breath.
It was so weird it didn't makeany sense.
I remember thinking that's soweird.
Everybody just listened tomommy.
Nobody listened to mommy.
Everyone stayed with Yitzi.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What did you do?
You called everyone back.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
No, we didn't call them back.
I don't think they would beable to handle it.
It's a tough call in the moment.
What to do, you know?
Like call you back.
And so we spent no, we justspent a lot of time with him in
the room and you know we werevery.
We were in touch with my friendRavi Almon.
(28:32):
He's like a chaplain.
He was actually in Kuwait so heis in charge.
He's a Hever Kadesh inPittsburgh so he spoke to me a
lot on the phone from Kuwait andhe took care of everything.
I mean I think I totallymentioned the community here is
like it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
The Pittsburgh community mamish carried us,
they carried us the whole timeWas the Hever Kadesh like taking
away you and your wife?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
No, we weren't there.
I took him away.
No, to take him away, you andyour wife.
No, we weren't there to takehim away.
No, we said goodbye to him.
We went into the room and wewent to a different lounge area
to talk to one of the Rabbanimwho was going to do the Leviah.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting tothink about that, how you're
(29:16):
able to like I remember Yitzhiwas Niftir, we were sitting with
him, we were holding his hand,we were really just, I don't
know, we weren't like hysterical, I don't know.
It was weird.
You know, you're just like inthe even.
I mean not joking around, butlike just having really you know
who's going to say Tehillim,because it was Hanukkah, so we
(29:42):
can't really have a spade in,you know, and they're all said,
maybe, maybe this person do it.
Like no, I'd rather just keepit with it.
Like it's interesting howyou're able to just be able to
be present, you know, verypresent.
Were you able to speak by?
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
very present.
Were you able to speak?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
by LaVeya yeah, yeah, I spoke.
My two son-in-laws spoke, hisRebbe spoke.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Like Hasbazen was saying we can't really have
Hasbazen, but Right, yeah, butit was short.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was definitely shorter.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Shorter.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was definitely shorter and yeah,
it's definitely shorter and yeah, then we had Levi.
He's very, very close, likehe's.
I mean, I think it also helps alittle bit, like you said.
Like, let's say, before mydaughter got engaged I went to
the cemetery.
You know, before the chastanahI go to the cemetery.
Like it's very accessible, it'slike probably less than a
(30:36):
10-minute drive from my house,probably an 8, 9-minute drive.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, I mean at first for a long time I couldn't look
at pictures at all, like momshould all.
And then now I'm able to lookat pictures but I can't.
I don't want to hear it.
I wish I could hear his voice.
I can't even imagine hearinghis voice again.
But then I didn't want to makeit that the cemetery becomes a
(31:02):
place that I can't go to.
You know, like if you don't gofor a long time you just build
it up as this place that I can'thandle.
So I don't go crazy often, butI go probably once a month.
I feel like I should go more,but it's right here.
Yesterday was Shabbat, shabbat.
I thought maybe I would go, butI didn't go.
(31:23):
I don't mind going.
It's a thing that I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Were you considering burying him in Eretz Yisrael, or
it was like no, I need him nearme.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
My brain just defaulted to my Rebbe.
I have a Rebbe, I have a Rebbe,rebbe Reingold, from Silver
Spring, and you know I'm, youknow I mean he says Kibi, you
want.
He said you want.
You told my wife also.
My Rebbe was like he drove inlike five times you know, from
from Maryland.
He was like unbelievable.
But he, he's like Kibi, youwant, you want him near you,
(31:55):
like you're gonna be inPittsburgh for a while,
hopefully, and you know not onlya place we thought was Lakewood
because I have some kids there,or he's like Kivi, you want him
near you, you're going to be inPittsburgh for a while,
hopefully, and not only a placewe thought was Lakewood because
I have some kids there, or maybeErtzug, we wanted him near us.
So, he is very, very, very close.
And I told you, the communityis amazing.
Someone paid for the La Valle,someone paid for the Matzeva,
(32:16):
everybody just Wow, that isamazing.
The LaVaya, some paid for theMatzeva, you know everybody just
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And how did his classmates deal with this?
Speaker 3 (32:27):
It's funny, during that time I actually worked in
school.
You know, during the whole timeI'm the therapist in the school
so I usually with the kids allthe time.
So I always tell people thatthe hardest kids I had, the
hardest kids I had to talk to,were the kids his age.
Like I didn't mind schmoozingwith other kids of all the
different ages, you know, butlike his specific class there
(32:48):
were a few kids I was schmoozingwith all the time Like I had
very hard.
Or I had clients his age that Ifound hard to talk to them, not
because I was upset like oh,why them?
You know why.
It just was like it's hard totalk to kids his age, you know.
It just made me think about himtoo much, I guess Before he was
(33:08):
nifter.
But kids are very interesting,you know.
Kids are very, in a way they'reresilient and in a way they're
also like they're not awkward.
They just don't like adults,adult.
Every time an adult sees me,it's like they feel the need to
be monogamous, like like I'm ayear and a half out, and like
every time adults see me, theylike Kiva are you?
(33:32):
You know, like kids are, likeit's called, emotionally
saturated.
You know they have a lot ontheir mind already in their own
life.
So you know they just want totalk about themselves.
So I'm happy about that.
Like I don't want to talk aboutItzy with you right now, you
know I want to just talk aboutit.
But everybody loved Itzy.
So he had a few friends thatactually unbelievable yeah.
(33:55):
So his friends, they're reallygood.
They die from every day.
He said to him, every day theylearned from at graduation,
which I didn't go to, my wifewent.
Everybody, every kid spokeabout him.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know part of their speech wow and yeah, you
didn't go to that because it wastoo hard for you yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah.
I'm not looking for likeunnecessary pain, you know.
So yeah, I did.
I had clients that night.
I didn't want to go tograduation.
A few boys spoke about him thisyear also graduation, Like some
of his friends are younger thanhim, but he actually became
very, very close to the boy inLakewood I don't know I won't
(34:35):
say his last name, but really itsounded Sadag of the boys.
They may have been young butthey got.
Basically my cousin's neighborin Lakewood also had cancer,
Barak Hashem.
He's doing fine but Yitzi andhim became like like
unbelievable friends.
They got chemo together and youknow, yeah, so very, very, very
(34:56):
special boy, mamash Him and Y,he meets you like super, super,
super close so then it must havebeen very scary for this boy
when you see was an externalyeah, very hard, yeah, very,
very hard for him, like I mean,he probably spoke to you more
than anybody else maybe besidesmy wife and me, maybe maybe more
than me, because he, like, theyspent like hours and hours and
(35:19):
hours.
They play video games like thesame video game they played
together.
They've got the phone together.
There's thousands and thousandsof text messages between them.
He was old.
This boy is older, he's, he'slike a sadhuk of a kid and his
parents are really, reallyspecial also, and they, you know
, we, yeah, so like it's veryvery hard, you know, I think it
was, yeah, very hard, yeah, um,yeah, and my, my parents also.
(35:50):
You know they, we had to tell myparents.
That was hard.
The way we did that was wecalled the highlight.
We know what to do.
I mean, highlight line actuallygave us really good advice,
very good advice.
My sister and brother-in-lawflew out there to Florida to be
there when we told them you know, because they're older, you
know and they need like support,you know.
(36:11):
So that was very, very.
My siblings also wereunbelievable and my older sister
she's like does everything.
So she flew out there and mybrother-in-law also does
everything, and they were therewhen I told, when I told my
parents so was that hard for youthat you had to support them
when you really needed theirsupport at that time, or no, I,
I didn't, I didn't need theirsupport and you know I'm very I
(36:36):
speak to my parents every day,I'm.
But, like you know, I don't feel, like I don't think I needed
their support.
I mean, they're veryappropriate.
You know, I didn't need, Ididn't like lean on my parents
for support.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You know, like but did they lean on you for support
that was hard to give?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
not really they.
They probably know my sistersmore, though they.
They just want you know theydon't want to us.
They want to know what's goingon.
You know updates, right, right,besides the fact that he was
very nauseous for a lot of it,like everything was kind of
going, you know, like scans wereokay, he was, you know, like
(37:13):
there was nothing crazy toreport, just that he didn't feel
well, but like there was neverlike a no, but the last four
weeks once he relapsed.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but thateverybody was like very, they
just like kind of like stayedaway kind of.
You know we were like in thezone.
You know, like me, my wife, thedoctors, you know all the
people.
You know they're not, they'renot prying or asking.
(37:36):
You know, like they're notprying or asking, I mean, the
community is unbelievable.
One of my coaches, danny Crowe,is CEO of the school.
He flew to Israel to see hisdaughter when he heard he was
really not doing well he justgot right back in the plane and
flew home and my parents weresleeping in his house.
He slept on the couch and myparents were in his bedroom oh
(37:56):
my goodness for like a week, youknow wow yeah, um, yeah, it's
very hard, and are there?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
big differences in grieving between you and your
wife yes, yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Well, my wife is, she will.
I mean, everybody knows my wifewas, she was unbelievable, you
know, just like next levelunbelievable and I guess every
mother would be like that, you'dassume.
You know, but like just youknow, because at a certain point
he had a feeding tube becausehe lost a lot of weight and then
(38:33):
he also he had the.
You know, when you get IV, youknow they put put a port in a
port.
So we had a port and a feedingtube and my wife was just like
there was never a moment whereit was like she couldn't do it.
You know she just it was likejust always at night, you know,
like I'm like dead tired.
(38:53):
She's like getting the food andputting the, you know the,
whatever it's called, I don'tknow in the feeding tube.
It's yeah, like she just dideverything, everything,
everything she can.
And we definitely agreedifferently.
I, I mean, I look, I thinkabout Yitzi every second, really
like weirdly, so I think aboutall the time.
(39:14):
I have no problem thinkingabout him, but in the beginning
I didn't want to see anypictures or hear his voice or
anything like that.
I was happy to talk about him.
We actually started WhatsAppchat memories, and we just
unloaded hundreds and hundredsof memories about him.
So we won't forget, just liketons of memories.
(39:35):
And my wife is much more.
I mean, she really recordedhours and hours and hours of
Yitzi.
So not in any obsessive way,but she really listens to it.
You know she'll be cooking forShabbos and she'll be listening
to Yitzi, or she'll look at tonsof pictures and you know video
and the audio stuff and you knowshe found it very meaningful.
(39:58):
I think at first she was kindof taken that I didn't want to
see any pictures.
Don't you want to see Yitzi?
Don't you want to not forgethim?
But then she understood.
For me it's just too painful.
It didn't cause any friction orconflict.
We grieved differently.
Even now I should listen to theaudio all the time.
(40:19):
I'll send the audio to you,I'll send the audio to Ron
Lapiansky, I'll send the audioto Salma Arabin, because it's
like very holy stuff, you know.
But I just I can't imaginehearing his voice At this point.
I can't imagine hearing hisvoice.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Right, but it's still very recent.
I mean that could still likechange.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still very recent.
I mean, that could still likechange.
Yeah, yeah, we went on themayhem shabbaton and that
therapist.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Um what's your name?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
um hindi, kine yeah, yeah, she's unbelievable, so
hindi, kine, I think my goshunbelievable, so we spoke about
it because she had a story abouther son, also like super yeah,
with the remnant cerebra right,yeah, like very special.
And then she said come on, lookat pictures.
That's what she told me.
I said it's only been a yearand a half, that it's only been
a year.
At that time then she told mywife okay, leave him alone, it's
(41:05):
only been a year.
You know, I can't you know.
Yeah, it's very raw, it's mama,sure, but but, and now I look
at pictures, I'm good withpictures now.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, yeah.
A lot of things gave.
I guess you know it gave us alot.
I think a lot of the communitygave us his like, the fact that
Yitzi was like he was, like itwas a journey, like it wasn't
abrupt.
You know, we were with him for10 months Like we had no other
kids home.
(41:36):
We weren't juggling carpools anddinners and even though
everybody made his dinner, butwe weren't, we were just very,
very hyper-focused on the team.
It was a lot, a lot of qualityquality time, um, intense
quality time and um, yeah, we,we, uh, I was going to say we,
(41:57):
we right, it was a journey.
I want to say something Onesecond.
Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah.
We were talking about himdecline, and that she told your
wife to you know, give you space, it's not so much, right, right
, what she did.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And no, I think about it all the time.
I can't remember, yeah, okay,oh, no, right, the community is
very good.
And yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, oh, the community, thecommunity was very good.
And yeah, there's certainthings, you know, like we,
certain things are painful, butit's like you, I think you want
(42:37):
your, I think you know you wantyour child to be remembered.
You know like it's likedefinitely that.
I think for sure right, it'svery meaningful, like you know.
So it's painful that the schoolis going to be named after him
and there's a big picture in thehallway of him which is painful
, but it's like, it's permanent.
You know, like right,remembered.
(42:58):
And you know we put out a safer.
You know we permanent.
You know I'm coming out with abook on parenting.
You know, for, like you know,like you just want you know I'm
coming out with a book onparenting.
You know, for, like you know,like you just want to.
You know his friends talk abouthim still and he's still very
remembered.
You know, I wonder how it'sgoing to be in 10 years.
I, you know a new kid in school, but, yeah, very, very, very
(43:19):
remembered.
Any important parting messagesbefore we end?
Um, I don't know, you know, Imean I think about like I'm, I
think everybody's situation isso unique.
You know, like I tell you likewhen I was going through this
(43:41):
whole thing so again, I'm not aholy guy at all, I'm really just
a schmoozer and I so one thingthat helped me, I really worked
on my davening and it becamelike, very, like that was very
helpful to me.
You know, like I'm 47 years old, so I guess at 45, you know,
(44:03):
you, you realize how little youreally know.
You don't even know what yousay, just the regular words.
I could ask people 10 words.
They don't know what the wordseven mean.
You say it every day.
So I really really worked onthat.
I had a chavusa.
Actually I had a chavusa thatalmost like the second to last
night.
He was nifter.
We did the malbim on Tehillimof Davani, did the malbim on
(44:28):
tehillim of davening, which islike really life-changing um,
and then I also had a sefercalled psuke yeshu abitachin,
which is actually particularrabbi shmuel hurth, who I got
very, very close with, who losthis daughter maki.
Um, I think people know maki,it's called maki's melodies, I
think.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah they put on a big brochure like a yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
So Rishu al-Hurth was like really one of the most
special people.
Him and his wife are justuniquely special.
He is so proactively engaging.
I didn't want to talk toanybody at that time and he was
like so he's like a friendlysefer ter, like really just
unbelievable.
So the sefer and the reason whyI know that is because the
(45:04):
safer I had, which are like thathad with me like the whole time
, the whole 10 months.
I told who were unbelievable.
I said I want to donate.
They said we don't reallypreach like we don't give out.
You know, that's like it's youknow, everybody has their.
I understood.
But she said I went to seminarywith his wife.
(45:24):
I'll be in touch, I'll put youin touch with the Mechag.
So then I got in touch withShmuel Hurt and we ever, even
till today, you know, we'repretty close, I speak to him
pretty often and he, his safety,gave me a lot of you know but
and a lot of, a lot of a lot ofDivinatoria kind of carried me a
lot.
You know.
I think my kids actually sawthat they had a hard time and
(45:48):
almost like we're a littlejealous that like somehow these
divinatory were talking to meand they kind of carried me,
even though obviously it wassuper painful.
But but I'm not trying to saythat can be fine the whole time,
but just it gave me, you know,a lot of the different divin
Torah really just resonated, youknow.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Everyone has their own like path or their own way
that they connect to Hashemduring tragedies.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Work for everyone Right?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I just saw that.
I saw from an article, like inthe bottom of the article Ch,
the article from Avram Zlatovich, two people said you know and
you know like it's like they're.
You know two most you knowunbelievable, like he said, so
(46:43):
close to Hashem and in one ofthe hardest times he's getting
killed.
You know alsorael, so close toHashem and Reb Kiva, in one of
the hardest times he was gettingkilled.
Also you feel close to Hashem.
He said Shema Yisrael.
So, yeah, I went on the MayimShabbaton, which was an
unbelievable, really anunbelievable Shabbos, and I
(47:04):
remember so Glenn, who was likeunbelievable, he asked me to
speak there, unbelievableShabbos.
And I remember so Glenn, who's,like you know, unbelievable, he
asked me to speak there.
But it was just, you know, aquick Shabbos afternoon type of
thing and I spoke, but I didn'tsay like a d'var Torah that
preached, it was more just likehow we're all together.
Yeah, I think being carried bya community is really my wife's
(47:26):
on a Facebook chat, I think it'scalled Something Mothers I
forgot what it's called exactly.
And a lot of the mothers whenthey go not even when the
child's lifted, but even whilethe sickness and even after also
.
They feel very alone Very aloneis it Very alone.
(47:47):
I think the fact that we liveout of town it's a small
community, I think we just feelvery, very supported.
It's very special, I would say.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That's it.
Well, thank you so much.
I am sure that you know thatthere's gonna be.
You know different parts willresonate with different people,
but it should be a.
An aliyah forgets his neshama,whatever anyone needs amen,
thank you so much for coming inyeah, thank you, I really really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
thank you coming in.
Yeah, thank you, I reallyreally appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Thank you.
You've just listened to anepisode of the Relief from Grief
podcast with Miriam Riviat,brought to you by Mayrim.
For more episodes, visit theMayrim website at wwwmayrimorg.
Help us reach more people whomight benefit from this podcast.
If you know someone who couldfind it helpful, please share it
with them.
If you have questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
(48:49):
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, we'd love to
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Email us at relieffromgrief atmayrimorg.
We look forward to having youjoin us in the next episode.
Welcome to the Relief from Grief podcast, hosted by
Mrs Miriam Rebiet and brought toyou by Mayrim.
Mayrim is an organizationdedicated to supporting families
who have experienced the lossof a child.
It was founded by EloiNishmat's, nechama Liba and
Miriam Holman.
Despite her illness, miriamdevoted herself to addressing
(00:22):
the needs of parents andsiblings grappling with the
immense pain of losing a child.
She felt this loss deeply,having experienced it firsthand
when her older sister, nechamaLiba, passed away.
Mehrim continues to uplift andexpand on the work Miriam began,
a mission carried forward byher parents with great
dedication.
(00:43):
If you have any questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, please email us
at relieffromgrief at mayrimorg.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hi everybody.
Thank you so much for joiningme here today on the Relief from
Grief by Mayrim Podcast.
Today we have on here fromPittsburgh Rabbi Stefatsky.
He is the therapist of theHillel Academy in Pittsburgh and
he also has his privatepractice.
So thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Sure, sure Happy to.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
And yeah, I guess, why don't you start with your
story about your son?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Okay, so my son Yitzi , or our son Yitzi he was our
youngest boy.
Five children, he's theyoungest and he was an
unbelievable son and basicallyhe was, you know, really the
glue I start from anywhere, butwas really the glue I start from
(01:46):
anywhere, but he's the glue ofthe family and he was an
unbelievable athlete,unbelievable learner, the
coolest kid, the nicest kid, thesweetest kid, really just a
very, very unique kid.
He used to go birdwatchingevery single week ever since
COVID.
That was one of the things thescience teacher sent home.
(02:08):
Try to like look at birds andhe could hear probably 20, 30
chirps and tell you exactly youknow what bird it is.
Just such an unbelievable,brilliant kid.
Yeah, just loved learning,loved diving, and I was very,
very close to them because hewas the only boy home at the
time.
All of a sudden I was inYeshiva and all the three girls
(02:30):
weren't home and connected onmany, many different levels
learning and nature and sportsand we were really besties, you
know, best friends.
And one day his throat washurting him and he took my
wife's phone to the bathroom andhe looked in the mirror with
(02:50):
the flashlight and he had thisvery weird swollen thing in the
back of his throat.
So he went to the doctor.
It looked, it looked verystrange, the doctor.
Doctor said, oh it's, it's aswollen tonsil, um, and then we
took antibiotics and it washurting him.
You know, every time we wentsomewhere he would find like a
cold compress, like lay his faceon.
(03:11):
It was like it was hurting him.
And then we went back a fewweeks later.
They said, oh, it's not working, we'll switch antibiotics.
And then they said, oh, go toan ENT.
And the ENT said, oh, it lookslike an ear infection of sorts
and sort of infection.
So he gave us differentantibiotics and then, after it
didn't go down and it wasdefinitely bothering him a lot,
my wife took him to the doctorand they said you may want to go
(03:34):
to the hospital, it could becancer, that's what.
So, yeah, I mean that's.
And after that I could just goon forever if you want.
I mean, basically we went tothe hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
How old was he?
I don't remember if he said itor not.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, so you'd see, when he found, when he was
diagnosed, he was 12.
And then he was NIFJ.
I mean, 10 months later he wasNIFJ, so he was 13.
But yeah, so we went to thedoctor, doctor, and he ended up
having a cancer calledrhabdomyosarcoma.
I'm not the biggest expert init, my wife knows everything
(04:09):
about it.
I kind of went into more oflike a freeze mode, you know
like, but rhabdomyosarcoma hehad different mutations and
different.
It just really ended up beinglike one in a million what he
had and it was not a good.
I mean, they gave hope in thebeginning.
You know, they they give ittheir all.
It's a very, very intensetreatment.
(04:30):
It's a 42 week, uh, treatmentof very, very harsh chemotherapy
and also radiation.
Yeah, it was very tough.
I mean it was very, very toughand in the beginning actually we
had this like a majorappointment with the doctors,
(04:51):
you know when they let us knowexactly what he had.
And we already knew becauseit's on the app.
It goes on the UPMC app, youknow, your health insurance app.
It's already there.
So my wife already knew.
But we went for this majormeeting One second, you found
out that he has cancer from theapp I guess because what they
put it in your records you knowlike it's, it's in there so my
wife basically knew I mean,maybe she know exactly or
(05:14):
whatever, but you know we knewgoing in, you know they already,
they already told us, like youknow, they know it's cancer,
which kind.
They were unsure.
But we had this like four likethis, like I don't know, a few
hour meeting, maybe like an houror two, where they went through
every say, everything about thecancer and the treatment,
everything that can happenduring chemo, and my wife is my
(05:35):
wife is very engaged the doctorwas taking notes and I was.
Just.
Me and disney were just likehugging each other and yeah, he
came in with you to this meeting.
He had to hear I don't know whyI mean the doctors asked him to
be there or they just assumed hewould be there if he was there
wow I mean I think it was over.
I mean I'm not, you know, wewere just like kind of frozen
(05:56):
together.
But really at the end it wasreally really terrible.
Like I don't know why they hadhim in there.
But they said, and because ofthe chemo he won't be able to
have any children.
So like um, you'd see,definitely he mean he heard it
he wasn't exactly sure what theywould say the chance, whatever,
but it's a totally differentstory.
But we ended up asking thewhole shiloh, because you could
(06:17):
do a surgery that could preserveyou know something.
It was like a whole.
You know it's a whole differentpart of the story.
But yeah, so Yitzi wasunbelievable.
We started treatments andbasically my wife was like a
rock, mom was a rock.
She was, I mean, like I guessyou never want to see anybody
(06:42):
have to go into this type ofgear, you know, but like she was
just like nonstop committed,24-7.
And he kind of moved into mybed, I moved into his room and
my wife just took care of himthe whole time.
And I mean there were timeswhen it was, you know it was
okay.
You know, in the beginning itwas very, very rough because
(07:03):
they forgot to put him on acertain anti-nausea medication
unbelievable oversight, crazy.
And he was very, very weak,lost a lot of weight, but he had
weeks where he was good.
You know we would go out, wewould you know we hung out a lot
.
We would go take walks and, youknow, find snakes, and you know,
(07:27):
I mean he couldn't really dosports, he was too shrach, you
know, very weak, but hedefinitely gave it his all.
You know, he really, reallywanted to.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
How long was he sick for before he was nipped in?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
He was sick, I think, for about 10 months.
For about 10 months, your 10months, and he your wife fall
apart.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Was her like falling apart harder, since she was like
had to say she stayed so strongduring when he was sick?
Say again like because you keepon describing her as a rock.
While he was sick, when he wasactually nifter, was her falling
apart like like very, very hugeand intense I mean she, she
fell apart because her son waslifted.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You know, I don't think it was any more.
You know, if anything I wouldsay it's almost like I mean,
there's a default that it's justsuper painful and terrible to
lose a child.
You know, no one should everhave to go through that ever.
And I think we definitely, um,we definitely not suffered, but
we definitely, you know, we wentthrough that.
(08:32):
That.
The more you know the morningperiod, you know, I feel is for
sure, I think you know, you know, and it was actually very it
was excruciating because youknow, we, we took care of, about
, but my, I don't think it wasextra hard because she put so
much into it, if anything.
My wife said very khashoggi,she said that obviously it's
super painful but it's a verybeautiful thing, to painfully
(08:52):
beautiful thing to be able to bewith someone from the second
they're born to the secondthey're nifted.
It's like you have someone'swhole life that you took care of
, from care, from beginning toend.
It's a very, it's a certain, Idon't know, closure or healing
part to it.
You know, my mom is there forhis um, his tia seshama.
We were in the room for that.
So like we were there and mywife is there this whole life,
(09:14):
you know, from birth until hislast breath.
So, yeah, I think that wasalmost like a nakama I would.
It wasn't even extra morepainful.
I think it was probably morelike a Nechama.
You know, that's what I think.
I mean.
He also said a lot of things atthe end of his life that gave
us a Nechama, you know.
(09:34):
He also said a lot of female.
Sure, he wants to like a lot ofstories, but he had 40, so
basically, we had chemotherapyfirst and then went to
Philadelphia for radiation andit was.
That was a very, very beautifulexperience.
You know what I mean.
It was very, very, so muchchesed, unbelievable, chesed,
(09:57):
unbelievable.
We stayed at the RonaldMcDonald House in Philadelphia
and it's basically unbelievable.
It's like a 120 story, likehotel and everything is free.
You're like the rooms are free,the food's free, they have a
game room, they have busing tothe hospital every 20 minutes
for free.
It's like I went, I went to thefront desk.
(10:19):
I'm like I don't know if youknow if you're Jewish or like,
but something called Chesed andlike this whole house is like a
house of chesed.
Now, of course, she ended upbeing Jewish, as you knew what I
was talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But like.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I mean High Lifeline RCCS also amazing, you know,
next level, but like this isjust like such a unique
experience.
So my wife stayed with him forseven weeks.
I went back to Pittsburghduring the week and I went to
Philadelphia for Shabbos andthen we had a Bar Mitzvah we
could talk about that.
But he so at about 40 weeks weactually thought that he was
(10:51):
going to be okay.
I mean not okay.
We thought we'd get through thewhole.
Basically he'll go onmaintenance, you know like he'll
get through the whole thing.
His scans will be all clear,and then you just go on
maintenance the whole thing.
His scans would be all clear,and then you just go on
maintenance, you know, wait forrelapse, you know.
But like we thought we weretalking about if he's going to
do Shiva and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Maintenance mean like remission.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yeah, remission.
Yeah, we thought for a minuteat week number like 38, we were
like wow, like we're almost done, like scans were pretty good
and like the doctors were happyand like he was feeling good.
We told my going to yeshiva, hewanted to go to denver.
We thought we should go tophilly, he wanted to go to
denver, my other son, denver.
I remember walking to shootwith him, like wow, like we're
(11:33):
actually handling go to yeshiva.
But then his, his eye looked alittle weird, whatever.
And I said, oh, it looks weird.
He went to the doctor and thecancer was basically like
mummish everywhere, likeeverywhere, everywhere, like the
list was so long where thecancer was, like I said, I told
my wife that she just tell uswhere the cancer is, not, you
know, like his pinky, you knowthat's it everywhere else.
(11:54):
So I and I didn't know how totell him.
I didn't know.
I didn't know how to tell him.
I didn't know how to tell himthat the doctor, almost like
they, didn't feel like it wasworth it to even go on with
treatment because we reallycouldn't do anything anymore.
I didn't know how to tell himand I slept in his room in the
hospital bed that night with him.
I got up in the morning, I camehome, I went to Rite Aid with
(12:16):
one of my son-in-laws and when Igot back home he was on the
phone with my daughter and mydaughter said Daddy, take the
phone.
He's saying crazy things.
So I said Izzy, what's going on?
I said, daddy, I love you,hashem loves you.
We can't take it out on Hashem,we can't be mad at anybody.
But I finished my mission onthis world and I mean he kept it
(12:41):
going on.
My daughter typed it while hewas saying it because we don't
want to forget what he wassaying.
I can't look at the text, it'stoo painful to look at it, but
he just said like he did.
He did a lot of chuvah.
My wife just told me on thephone today that she was
listening to the recordings ofhim where he was saying how he
was very upset that maybe peoplethought he was more chashid
than he was and he was like he's.
(13:01):
You know, if someone would givehim a million dollars, he would
take the million dollarsinstead of learning, you know,
and he feels so terrible aboutthat.
And then you know he can't bemad at Hashem, you know, he just
is like he asked for a saferturtle.
He asked that we give him stockevery day.
He asked that we give stockevery day.
He asked anytime it's hard forus to do mitzvah, we should
think about him to give uschizah.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Like you know, he really was a very.
How much was this before he wasniftah?
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I mean he was always like super unique, you know, but
like these type of things.
Probably Probably the last,maybe like three, four weeks,
where he kind of knew, knew.
I think he really understoodthat he is going to die.
He knew that he's going to belifted.
We had a whole mindset with hisname.
(13:47):
We asked him about changing hisname but he said not to change
his name.
He should be able to learnwhatever.
That was our last ditch effort.
Basically, I think he reallyjust I remember he told my
daughter, he, I mean, he told usthings I want to say patera,
I'm scared to go to shemayim,who am I going to know there?
(14:08):
He said what do you mean?
You know?
We said his daddy's there andyou know my grandparents are
there and you know, yeah, youknow it's gonna be, it's gonna
be so nice.
And yeah, he was.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I got very so you never told him like, oh, don't
talk like that.
You just kind of validated himand tried to answer his
questions.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, well, I, you know I don't want to tell him
not to talk like that becausehe's going to die.
You know I'm not going to give.
You know we definitely gave him.
We did everything for him andwe tried everything.
You know, pchai Leithar, rccs,different types of medicines, we
did everything.
We did everything.
But you know, I mean duringthose first nine, ten months
(14:52):
where he wasn't on the plate, soevery time we'd bring it up we
would say Maissa, today you'realive.
You know, with Hashem, tomorrowit'll be the same and we have
to day by day you know whateverit's a word I heard, actually,
but you know, one day at a time.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
And that's what we did.
And then at the end it was likea very it was very, I would say
very, not abrupt, but like itwent from like pretty good to
like very bad.
You know so, but my wife reallyalways thought the whole time
that it was such a severe cancerwith very terrible relapse, you
(15:31):
know.
You know, if it relapses it'slike basically it's over anyway
and it usually, and what he hadhe had all these different
fusion positive mutations.
It was really just not good.
But yeah, he was a very, veryspecial, very good boy.
I mean very special boy,unbelievable boy.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
So should we talk about his.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Should we talk about his bar mitzvah?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yes, well, I'll tell you Yitzi, he was such an
unbelievable kid.
First of all, he made such animpact.
You know, like I'm verycompetitive in sports and my
oldest son is like anunbelievable athlete and his
name is Yehuda and Yitzi waslike Yehuda 2.0, because Yitzi
was like just unbelievable.
And at Shiva we got lettersfrom non-Jewish mothers who went
(16:23):
to the game just to watch thebest kid be the nicest kid.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Really.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, their sons weren't even playing.
They went to see Yitzi when wasthis Pittsburgh.
Yeah, pittsburgh it's calledSquirrel Hole Baseball.
It's like a lot of teams haveall-star games, travel stuff, if
stuff like out of town you cando these type of things, you
know.
So, like people came to watchhim, you know people.
You know they want to renamethe street that goes up to the
(16:50):
baseball field.
After you see, the guy did it,for, like the guy in charge,
randy frankel, is jewish.
He said he was the best kidever had in 50 years and just
all around you know he's likethe best athlete, the nicest kid
, mom's just sweetest kid.
And then he this is by mitzvah,so he, oh yeah.
So when he was 10, during COVID,he got up every morning because
(17:15):
you know, school started at acertain time during COVID.
You know he had to go log on tosee his Rebbe because he
started.
So he would get up early and hewould do Tup Sukkum every day
when he was 10, of Baha'iBukh-Lukai Say.
I don't know how to learn, sohe taught himself how to learn
with online Rebbe Fessel and hedid Baha'i Bukh-Lukai Say every
day, tup Sukkum.
And he taught himself the BaharBilqayseh and Naftur when he
(17:37):
was 10.
And then, before Bar Mitzvah,we got a Bar Mitzvah teacher,
rabbi Mandelbaum, just to kindof go over with him.
But then he got sick right awaywhen he was 12.
He got sick so he didn't reallysee it.
And then we were in Chopp,philadelphia for Bar Mitzvah and
I actually just looked up anemail.
I saw my daughter put together.
They wanted to make a batmitzvah for him at my Mechutin
(17:57):
Rabbi Reber Mayor Reber, who hasa kudel in Philadelphia and the
Rebers were unbelievable people.
They said, yeah, we're going tomake it be shmach, be amazing.
And we were around.
We were down in the house.
It was Friday, it was ErevShabbos.
He had radiation that day and Isaid, yes, do you want to go?
I'm not feeling well.
And then he felt bad.
He felt bad because he wasletting me down.
(18:25):
So I feel like I want him to doit.
I want him to have not evenlaying I want.
All his sisters are going to bethere.
My son was in for Mishiva also,so he ended up going and we got
there and Friday night it wasvery beautiful.
We had a whole meal, just afamily.
And then Friday night he wentupstairs to the shul and he went
over the whole laning with myother son and then Shabbos day
(18:46):
he actually laned Bahar, bukha,koyse and Naftara and while he
was laning he saw a securitycamera in the corner and he
actually asked me to ask myMechutin if it's possible to see
if they got him on video, andmy mokhun doesn't want to,
doesn't want me to tell anybody,but the video actually captured
(19:07):
um, yitzis bar mitzvah and thenight before learning with my
son, you know, like going overthe parasha.
So let me have you knowsecurity footage of yitzis bar
Mitzvah, which I probably willnever watch ever again because I
can't handle it, but my wifewatches it and we've seen it and
, yeah, very, very special forsure.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Was that a mistake?
Isn't the video not supposed to?
Was that a mistake?
Just because it's Travis andit's not supposed?
Speaker 3 (19:35):
to be Mitzvah.
No, the way the psalm is, isthat really?
A lot of shuls in Köln havevideos but as far as I know, the
Pesach is like if the screenthat it's recording on is off,
it's okay.
Like, a lot of shuls have videocameras, security cameras, but
you could always get the video.
Obviously, no shuls give outbar mitzvah videos, right, it's
not what we do.
But for Yitzi, I pulled thecancer card on my mikhutin and
(20:03):
he, he said he said okay, hesaid not to tell anybody about.
Um, yeah, so we had that andyeah, actually had a, had a.
I've had a client who didn't Imy own practice, who doesn't
live in philadelphia, but he wasthere for that, that shabbos,
and he didn't realize that me,the therapist was yiti's.
So we spoke about somehow itcame up and he said that was the
most special Shabbos.
(20:24):
That kid at his bar mitzvah, itwas the most special Shabbos of
his entire life.
I said I don't want to tell youit was my son, like that was
you know?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But that's like probably one of those like
memories to hold on to sotightly, like for someone to say
that that's like major.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of memories.
We have a lot of memories.
We did a lot of stuff together.
We all did.
I mean, he was very close toall my kids and he yeah, we have
a lot, a lot, a lot of memoriestogether.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
A lot.
How did?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
your children handle his fatigue?
It's a good question.
You know, in the beginning,when he was sick like mom was in
the beginning I remember Icalled my, we found, we found
that I think on a Thursday and Icalled my kids Thursday night
and if you know, izzy, he's likethe sweetest kid, like it's
(21:21):
like it's so crazy.
I remember all my daughtersfreaked out Like they just
crying and screaming.
You know it was really bad.
And then you know they gatheredthemselves and you know they
were very like.
You know we started to film achat and I mean filming a chat
(21:43):
was like even now people say youknow they gathered themselves
and you know they were very like.
You know we started the HilmaChat and I mean Hilma Chat was
like even now people say I meanI think it happens a lot, like
the Hilma Chat still goes evenafter someone's lifted.
But like you know, they're very, very on top of Hilma Chat,
making people show people to geton Shabbos.
And you know they did a lot ofstuff for him and it was, it was
, it was hard, it was very, veryhard.
I mean when they came up theywere all they're all out of the
(22:03):
house.
So when they came home.
You know, if you felt well,shabbos is nice.
If he didn't feel well, it wasvery hard to see him just like
being nauseous.
All shabbos, you know.
But yeah, each one handleddifferently.
You know, some of them likesome of them don't talk about
him at all.
Some of them talk about him alot.
Some of them handle itdifferently.
You know, some of them likesome of them don't talk about
him at all.
Some of them talk about him alot.
Some of them are in the middle.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
You know, I guess it's like, but I would say
balance yourself as like afather and a therapist, like
they don't want therapy from you, probably I don't.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I don't give them therapy.
I know Everybody's different.
You know we all mourndifferently, we grieve
differently and I never forcedthem to talk about it.
You know.
I mean sometimes you want totalk about Yitzi Like if they're
all there for Shabbos.
You know, like on the yard sideyou made a beautiful thing.
We had a sima shas on the yardside.
(22:55):
I spoke at school about Yitzi.
That was emotional becauseeverybody, the whole school, was
in mourning.
I told you they're renaming theschool after him.
It's called the Yitzi SatopsiCampus.
It's like an $11 millionbuilding.
Actually, one of my daughterswho's engaged now, she had a
very, very hard time.
She was very angry, for sure,very upset and very sad and very
(23:18):
angry.
But I think the fact that Yitziwas saying all those things
like can't be mad at Hashem, Ifinished my mission in this
world.
We have to love Hashem.
You know he loves us.
We'll be together forever,always.
(23:38):
I think the fact that he wasable to say all those things of
like closure really gave thatdaughter and all of us really.
But that daughter especially,like a massive nechama, like she
was mamash upset, like angryand she really got a nechama out
of that, like you saw like a,um massive difference.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
You know so, so did you like keep at the wedding and
like your child is missing,like you're not making a wedding
with your full family uh, youknow, we never um, we never um,
we never made it well, we neverhad a simcha yet without him.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
You, you know, I mean we like my niece got married,
but like a family Simcha, youknow, my daughter got engaged
and Yitzi wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's a year and a half, you told me right.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, my other daughter had ababy whose name they actually.
She actually named him Yitzi,oh wow.
Yeah yeah, his name is Yitzhak Y.
Yeah, his name is Yitzchak, I'msorry, yaakov Yitzchak, and we
call him Yitzi.
I mean, it's very weird to callhim Yitzi.
You know, like we still we'renot perfect at it.
You know, like his othergrandmother called him Yitzi and
his mother called him littleYitzi, we call him like I mean,
(25:00):
he was a baby, it was in a Choma, you had the Briss, for sure.
Yeah, it's still.
It's raw.
You know, it's very raw, forsure, very raw.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I got married like a year and I got engaged right
after my brother's first year atpsych.
So I got married but I was lessthan a year and a half, you
know, after he was in the fair.
And I remember, like, when thephotographer said, so this is
the whole family, and I saw thatpain that crossed my father's
face, I was like, oh my gosh,why didn't, like I say anything
to this photographer beforehand?
Like that was like like I sawthat pain, it was so huge.
(25:35):
Like that was like I saw thatpain, it was so huge.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Right, right, because you were taking family pictures
.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
You're saying we were taking family pictures and my
brother wasn't here and like itwas very bad.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how we're
going to do it.
You know we've taken pictures.
Well, we've definitely takenpictures since then Not hasana,
family pictures but um, I thinkit's gonna be on people's minds,
you know, I'll probably saysomething about it, you know, I
(26:04):
guess.
But yeah, I mean it's, I'm sureit'll be emotional, you know.
I mean, just thinking about itmakes me very, very sad.
Actually, like you know, it's abit emotional.
Like, oh yeah, like my othertwo daughters got mad, like,
like this son-in-law he is theonly son-in-law who he didn't
experience it see, like my othertwo son-in-law very close to
them, you know we, yeah, hislast two nights he was alive.
(26:27):
We had my other son-in-law, heplays guitar.
We had the last two nights hewasn't conscious but, um, well,
they were there for a few days.
So he, he definitely interactedwith them.
Like he, he's very weak.
So one of my sons is Shlomi.
He was, ah, rip, shlomi.
And then my other, my otherson-in-law, boaz, would try to
(26:48):
steal candy.
Boaz, I see you taking candy.
And then he, he, you know, Ithink he had a seizure and he
was unconscious.
He was basically like justsedated, I guess, for two days
and every night we had actuallya crazy story.
We had a kumtits in his roomfor those last two nights my
son-in-law is very beautifulguitar, whatever so we sang and
(27:10):
it was really really emotional,really really, really emotional.
And the first night they werethere, we sang and they left
very, very late.
The second night they werethere, we were singing and it
was so crazy At 12 o'clock mywife said okay, it's 12 o'clock,
everybody go home.
So everybody just got up andleft.
And I remember thinking tomyself at that moment I'm like
(27:33):
that is so weird, everybody'sgot up and left, like last night
.
She said everybody go home,nobody left, everybody stays and
nobody like just I just said 12o'clock, okay, 12 o'clock,
everybody go.
And then everybody left, theyshut the door and me and my wife
were back to Yitzi and we heldhis hand and he took his last
like his you know, yitzi is theShabbat basically his last
(27:54):
breath.
It was so weird it didn't makeany sense.
I remember thinking that's soweird.
Everybody just listened tomommy.
Nobody listened to mommy.
Everyone stayed with Yitzi.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
What did you do?
You called everyone back.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
No, we didn't call them back.
I don't think they would beable to handle it.
It's a tough call in the moment.
What to do, you know?
Like call you back.
And so we spent no, we justspent a lot of time with him in
the room and you know we werevery.
We were in touch with my friendRavi Almon.
(28:32):
He's like a chaplain.
He was actually in Kuwait so heis in charge.
He's a Hever Kadesh inPittsburgh so he spoke to me a
lot on the phone from Kuwait andhe took care of everything.
I mean I think I totallymentioned the community here is
like it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
The Pittsburgh community mamish carried us,
they carried us the whole timeWas the Hever Kadesh like taking
away you and your wife?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
No, we weren't there.
I took him away.
No, to take him away, you andyour wife.
No, we weren't there to takehim away.
No, we said goodbye to him.
We went into the room and wewent to a different lounge area
to talk to one of the Rabbanimwho was going to do the Leviah.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting tothink about that, how you're
(29:16):
able to like I remember Yitzhiwas Niftir, we were sitting with
him, we were holding his hand,we were really just, I don't
know, we weren't like hysterical, I don't know.
It was weird.
You know, you're just like inthe even.
I mean not joking around, butlike just having really you know
who's going to say Tehillim,because it was Hanukkah, so we
(29:42):
can't really have a spade in,you know, and they're all said,
maybe, maybe this person do it.
Like no, I'd rather just keepit with it.
Like it's interesting howyou're able to just be able to
be present, you know, verypresent.
Were you able to speak by?
You know?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
very present.
Were you able to speak?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
by LaVeya yeah, yeah, I spoke.
My two son-in-laws spoke, hisRebbe spoke.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Like Hasbazen was saying we can't really have
Hasbazen, but Right, yeah, butit was short.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was definitely shorter.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Shorter.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, it was definitely shorter and yeah,
it's definitely shorter and yeah, then we had Levi.
He's very, very close, likehe's.
I mean, I think it also helps alittle bit, like you said.
Like, let's say, before mydaughter got engaged I went to
the cemetery.
You know, before the chastanahI go to the cemetery.
Like it's very accessible, it'slike probably less than a
(30:36):
10-minute drive from my house,probably an 8, 9-minute drive.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, I mean at first for a long time I couldn't look
at pictures at all, like momshould all.
And then now I'm able to lookat pictures but I can't.
I don't want to hear it.
I wish I could hear his voice.
I can't even imagine hearinghis voice again.
But then I didn't want to makeit that the cemetery becomes a
(31:02):
place that I can't go to.
You know, like if you don't gofor a long time you just build
it up as this place that I can'thandle.
So I don't go crazy often, butI go probably once a month.
I feel like I should go more,but it's right here.
Yesterday was Shabbat, shabbat.
I thought maybe I would go, butI didn't go.
(31:23):
I don't mind going.
It's a thing that I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Were you considering burying him in Eretz Yisrael, or
it was like no, I need him nearme.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
My brain just defaulted to my Rebbe.
I have a Rebbe, I have a Rebbe,rebbe Reingold, from Silver
Spring, and you know I'm, youknow I mean he says Kibi, you
want.
He said you want.
You told my wife also.
My Rebbe was like he drove inlike five times you know, from
from Maryland.
He was like unbelievable.
But he, he's like Kibi, youwant, you want him near you,
(31:55):
like you're gonna be inPittsburgh for a while,
hopefully, and you know not onlya place we thought was Lakewood
because I have some kids there,or he's like Kivi, you want him
near you, you're going to be inPittsburgh for a while,
hopefully, and not only a placewe thought was Lakewood because
I have some kids there, or maybeErtzug, we wanted him near us.
So, he is very, very, very close.
And I told you, the communityis amazing.
Someone paid for the La Valle,someone paid for the Matzeva,
(32:16):
everybody just Wow, that isamazing.
The LaVaya, some paid for theMatzeva, you know everybody just
Wow, that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
And how did his classmates deal with this?
Speaker 3 (32:27):
It's funny, during that time I actually worked in
school.
You know, during the whole timeI'm the therapist in the school
so I usually with the kids allthe time.
So I always tell people thatthe hardest kids I had, the
hardest kids I had to talk to,were the kids his age.
Like I didn't mind schmoozingwith other kids of all the
different ages, you know, butlike his specific class there
(32:48):
were a few kids I was schmoozingwith all the time Like I had
very hard.
Or I had clients his age that Ifound hard to talk to them, not
because I was upset like oh,why them?
You know why.
It just was like it's hard totalk to kids his age, you know.
It just made me think about himtoo much, I guess Before he was
(33:08):
nifter.
But kids are very interesting,you know.
Kids are very, in a way they'reresilient and in a way they're
also like they're not awkward.
They just don't like adults,adult.
Every time an adult sees me,it's like they feel the need to
be monogamous, like like I'm ayear and a half out, and like
every time adults see me, theylike Kiva are you?
(33:32):
You know, like kids are, likeit's called, emotionally
saturated.
You know they have a lot ontheir mind already in their own
life.
So you know they just want totalk about themselves.
So I'm happy about that.
Like I don't want to talk aboutItzy with you right now, you
know I want to just talk aboutit.
But everybody loved Itzy.
So he had a few friends thatactually unbelievable yeah.
(33:55):
So his friends, they're reallygood.
They die from every day.
He said to him, every day theylearned from at graduation,
which I didn't go to, my wifewent.
Everybody, every kid spokeabout him.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know part of their speech wow and yeah, you
didn't go to that because it wastoo hard for you yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Yeah.
I'm not looking for likeunnecessary pain, you know.
So yeah, I did.
I had clients that night.
I didn't want to go tograduation.
A few boys spoke about him thisyear also graduation, Like some
of his friends are younger thanhim, but he actually became
very, very close to the boy inLakewood I don't know I won't
(34:35):
say his last name, but really itsounded Sadag of the boys.
They may have been young butthey got.
Basically my cousin's neighborin Lakewood also had cancer,
Barak Hashem.
He's doing fine but Yitzi andhim became like like
unbelievable friends.
They got chemo together and youknow, yeah, so very, very, very
(34:56):
special boy, mamash Him and Y,he meets you like super, super,
super close so then it must havebeen very scary for this boy
when you see was an externalyeah, very hard, yeah, very,
very hard for him, like I mean,he probably spoke to you more
than anybody else maybe besidesmy wife and me, maybe maybe more
than me, because he, like, theyspent like hours and hours and
(35:19):
hours.
They play video games like thesame video game they played
together.
They've got the phone together.
There's thousands and thousandsof text messages between them.
He was old.
This boy is older, he's, he'slike a sadhuk of a kid and his
parents are really, reallyspecial also, and they, you know
, we, yeah, so like it's veryvery hard, you know, I think it
was, yeah, very hard, yeah, um,yeah, and my, my parents also.
(35:50):
You know they, we had to tell myparents.
That was hard.
The way we did that was wecalled the highlight.
We know what to do.
I mean, highlight line actuallygave us really good advice,
very good advice.
My sister and brother-in-lawflew out there to Florida to be
there when we told them you know, because they're older, you
know and they need like support,you know.
(36:11):
So that was very, very.
My siblings also wereunbelievable and my older sister
she's like does everything.
So she flew out there and mybrother-in-law also does
everything, and they were therewhen I told, when I told my
parents so was that hard for youthat you had to support them
when you really needed theirsupport at that time, or no, I,
I didn't, I didn't need theirsupport and you know I'm very I
(36:36):
speak to my parents every day,I'm.
But, like you know, I don't feel, like I don't think I needed
their support.
I mean, they're veryappropriate.
You know, I didn't need, Ididn't like lean on my parents
for support.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You know, like but did they lean on you for support
that was hard to give?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
not really they.
They probably know my sistersmore, though they.
They just want you know theydon't want to us.
They want to know what's goingon.
You know updates, right, right,besides the fact that he was
very nauseous for a lot of it,like everything was kind of
going, you know, like scans wereokay, he was, you know, like
(37:13):
there was nothing crazy toreport, just that he didn't feel
well, but like there was neverlike a no, but the last four
weeks once he relapsed.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but thateverybody was like very, they
just like kind of like stayedaway kind of.
You know we were like in thezone.
You know, like me, my wife, thedoctors, you know all the
people.
You know they're not, they'renot prying or asking.
(37:36):
You know, like they're notprying or asking, I mean, the
community is unbelievable.
One of my coaches, danny Crowe,is CEO of the school.
He flew to Israel to see hisdaughter when he heard he was
really not doing well he justgot right back in the plane and
flew home and my parents weresleeping in his house.
He slept on the couch and myparents were in his bedroom oh
(37:56):
my goodness for like a week, youknow wow yeah, um, yeah, it's
very hard, and are there?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
big differences in grieving between you and your
wife yes, yeah, very much.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Well, my wife is, she will.
I mean, everybody knows my wifewas, she was unbelievable, you
know, just like next levelunbelievable and I guess every
mother would be like that, you'dassume.
You know, but like just youknow, because at a certain point
he had a feeding tube becausehe lost a lot of weight and then
(38:33):
he also he had the.
You know, when you get IV, youknow they put put a port in a
port.
So we had a port and a feedingtube and my wife was just like
there was never a moment whereit was like she couldn't do it.
You know she just it was likejust always at night, you know,
like I'm like dead tired.
(38:53):
She's like getting the food andputting the, you know the,
whatever it's called, I don'tknow in the feeding tube.
It's yeah, like she just dideverything, everything,
everything she can.
And we definitely agreedifferently.
I, I mean, I look, I thinkabout Yitzi every second, really
like weirdly, so I think aboutall the time.
(39:14):
I have no problem thinkingabout him, but in the beginning
I didn't want to see anypictures or hear his voice or
anything like that.
I was happy to talk about him.
We actually started WhatsAppchat memories, and we just
unloaded hundreds and hundredsof memories about him.
So we won't forget, just liketons of memories.
(39:35):
And my wife is much more.
I mean, she really recordedhours and hours and hours of
Yitzi.
So not in any obsessive way,but she really listens to it.
You know she'll be cooking forShabbos and she'll be listening
to Yitzi, or she'll look at tonsof pictures and you know video
and the audio stuff and you knowshe found it very meaningful.
(39:58):
I think at first she was kindof taken that I didn't want to
see any pictures.
Don't you want to see Yitzi?
Don't you want to not forgethim?
But then she understood.
For me it's just too painful.
It didn't cause any friction orconflict.
We grieved differently.
Even now I should listen to theaudio all the time.
(40:19):
I'll send the audio to you,I'll send the audio to Ron
Lapiansky, I'll send the audioto Salma Arabin, because it's
like very holy stuff, you know.
But I just I can't imaginehearing his voice At this point.
I can't imagine hearing hisvoice.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Right, but it's still very recent.
I mean that could still likechange.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still very recent.
I mean, that could still likechange.
Yeah, yeah, we went on themayhem shabbaton and that
therapist.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Um what's your name?
Speaker 3 (40:43):
um hindi, kine yeah, yeah, she's unbelievable, so
hindi, kine, I think my goshunbelievable, so we spoke about
it because she had a story abouther son, also like super yeah,
with the remnant cerebra right,yeah, like very special.
And then she said come on, lookat pictures.
That's what she told me.
I said it's only been a yearand a half, that it's only been
a year.
At that time then she told mywife okay, leave him alone, it's
(41:05):
only been a year.
You know, I can't you know.
Yeah, it's very raw, it's mama,sure, but but, and now I look
at pictures, I'm good withpictures now.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, yeah.
A lot of things gave.
I guess you know it gave us alot.
I think a lot of the communitygave us his like, the fact that
Yitzi was like he was, like itwas a journey, like it wasn't
abrupt.
You know, we were with him for10 months Like we had no other
kids home.
(41:36):
We weren't juggling carpools anddinners and even though
everybody made his dinner, butwe weren't, we were just very,
very hyper-focused on the team.
It was a lot, a lot of qualityquality time, um, intense
quality time and um, yeah, we,we, uh, I was going to say we,
(41:57):
we right, it was a journey.
I want to say something Onesecond.
Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah.
We were talking about himdecline, and that she told your
wife to you know, give you space, it's not so much, right, right
, what she did.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And no, I think about it all the time.
I can't remember, yeah, okay,oh, no, right, the community is
very good.
And yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, oh, the community, thecommunity was very good.
And yeah, there's certainthings, you know, like we,
certain things are painful, butit's like you, I think you want
(42:37):
your, I think you know you wantyour child to be remembered.
You know like it's likedefinitely that.
I think for sure right, it'svery meaningful, like you know.
So it's painful that the schoolis going to be named after him
and there's a big picture in thehallway of him which is painful
, but it's like, it's permanent.
You know, like right,remembered.
(42:58):
And you know we put out a safer.
You know we permanent.
You know I'm coming out with abook on parenting.
You know, for, like you know,like you just want you know I'm
coming out with a book onparenting.
You know, for, like you know,like you just want to.
You know his friends talk abouthim still and he's still very
remembered.
You know, I wonder how it'sgoing to be in 10 years.
I, you know a new kid in school, but, yeah, very, very, very
(43:19):
remembered.
Any important parting messagesbefore we end?
Um, I don't know, you know, Imean I think about like I'm, I
think everybody's situation isso unique.
You know, like I tell you likewhen I was going through this
(43:41):
whole thing so again, I'm not aholy guy at all, I'm really just
a schmoozer and I so one thingthat helped me, I really worked
on my davening and it becamelike, very, like that was very
helpful to me.
You know, like I'm 47 years old, so I guess at 45, you know,
(44:03):
you, you realize how little youreally know.
You don't even know what yousay, just the regular words.
I could ask people 10 words.
They don't know what the wordseven mean.
You say it every day.
So I really really worked onthat.
I had a chavusa.
Actually I had a chavusa thatalmost like the second to last
night.
He was nifter.
We did the malbim on Tehillimof Davani, did the malbim on
(44:28):
tehillim of davening, which islike really life-changing um,
and then I also had a sefercalled psuke yeshu abitachin,
which is actually particularrabbi shmuel hurth, who I got
very, very close with, who losthis daughter maki.
Um, I think people know maki,it's called maki's melodies, I
think.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah they put on a big brochure like a yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
So Rishu al-Hurth was like really one of the most
special people.
Him and his wife are justuniquely special.
He is so proactively engaging.
I didn't want to talk toanybody at that time and he was
like so he's like a friendlysefer ter, like really just
unbelievable.
So the sefer and the reason whyI know that is because the
(45:04):
safer I had, which are like thathad with me like the whole time
, the whole 10 months.
I told who were unbelievable.
I said I want to donate.
They said we don't reallypreach like we don't give out.
You know, that's like it's youknow, everybody has their.
I understood.
But she said I went to seminarywith his wife.
(45:24):
I'll be in touch, I'll put youin touch with the Mechag.
So then I got in touch withShmuel Hurt and we ever, even
till today, you know, we'repretty close, I speak to him
pretty often and he, his safety,gave me a lot of you know but
and a lot of, a lot of a lot ofDivinatoria kind of carried me a
lot.
You know.
I think my kids actually sawthat they had a hard time and
(45:48):
almost like we're a littlejealous that like somehow these
divinatory were talking to meand they kind of carried me,
even though obviously it wassuper painful.
But but I'm not trying to saythat can be fine the whole time,
but just it gave me, you know,a lot of the different divin
Torah really just resonated, youknow.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Everyone has their own like path or their own way
that they connect to Hashemduring tragedies.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Right, right right.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Work for everyone Right?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I just saw that.
I saw from an article, like inthe bottom of the article Ch,
the article from Avram Zlatovich, two people said you know and
you know like it's like they're.
You know two most you knowunbelievable, like he said, so
(46:43):
close to Hashem and in one ofthe hardest times he's getting
killed.
You know alsorael, so close toHashem and Reb Kiva, in one of
the hardest times he was gettingkilled.
Also you feel close to Hashem.
He said Shema Yisrael.
So, yeah, I went on the MayimShabbaton, which was an
unbelievable, really anunbelievable Shabbos, and I
(47:04):
remember so Glenn, who was likeunbelievable, he asked me to
speak there, unbelievableShabbos.
And I remember so Glenn, who's,like you know, unbelievable, he
asked me to speak there.
But it was just, you know, aquick Shabbos afternoon type of
thing and I spoke, but I didn'tsay like a d'var Torah that
preached, it was more just likehow we're all together.
Yeah, I think being carried bya community is really my wife's
(47:26):
on a Facebook chat, I think it'scalled Something Mothers I
forgot what it's called exactly.
And a lot of the mothers whenthey go not even when the
child's lifted, but even whilethe sickness and even after also
.
They feel very alone Very aloneis it Very alone.
(47:47):
I think the fact that we liveout of town it's a small
community, I think we just feelvery, very supported.
It's very special, I would say.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That's it.
Well, thank you so much.
I am sure that you know thatthere's gonna be.
You know different parts willresonate with different people,
but it should be a.
An aliyah forgets his neshama,whatever anyone needs amen,
thank you so much for coming inyeah, thank you, I really really
appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
thank you coming in.
Yeah, thank you, I reallyreally appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Thank you.
You've just listened to anepisode of the Relief from Grief
podcast with Miriam Riviat,brought to you by Mayrim.
For more episodes, visit theMayrim website at wwwmayrimorg.
Help us reach more people whomight benefit from this podcast.
If you know someone who couldfind it helpful, please share it
with them.
If you have questions orcomments for the speaker, or if
(48:49):
you'd like to suggest a guestfor the podcast, we'd love to
hear from you.
Email us at relieffromgrief atmayrimorg.
We look forward to having youjoin us in the next episode.
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