March 5, 2025 • 58 mins
Spill your ReligiosiTea directly with the show host! Let us know your reactions, stories, and more!
(Content Warnings)
This episode touches on themes of homosexuality, brief mention of sexual assault, and religious trauma. These themes might be difficult for some listeners to hear. Please be advised.
(Description)
This episode was actually the first episode ever recorded for ReligiosiTea! Even before the introduction. This episode is also one of probably a few episodes that will eventually be recorded in a natural/organic setting rather than having a quiet studio-like space. This conversation took place around a kitchen table! This will not be the case for all episodes, but is part of the organic nature of the show.
In this conversation, I had the opportunity to speak to my partner, Mark, and my cousin, Amberly about their different experiences of Catholicism. Because this conversation took part with 3 people, we formed a trinity of sorts to discuss themes of Catholicism through different and shared experiences with the faith (Hence the episode title A non-Holy Trinity). Mark grew up in the Philippines and Amberly grew up in Mexican Catholicism as practiced in a city on the US-Mexico border. I asked each of them to share their experiences with faith both as a personal experience and as a cultural construct in which they were raised.
We dive into conversations about folklore, traditions, and beliefs between these two different cultures. We then transition into a conversation about each of their religious trajectories, whether or not they still identify with that faith, what their spirituality looks like now, and how they feel about their faith. Finally, we move into a discussion about how they each consider faith or spirituality in relation to their health, especially their mental health.
(Content Caveat)
The conversations here are exploratory on my part. I didn't have an opportunity to do research on these topics aside from my own personal knowledge, so the ideas presented here are based purely on lay understandings of the religious and cultural topics discussed. We are not using this space to present purely accurate information, but rather to discuss and engage with personal knowledges around these topics. If there is something you feel needs to be corrected or addressed in the content shared, feel free to "Spill Your Tea" in the communications link above.
Follow me on Instagram and Threads: @ReligiosiTea
You can use the link at the top of the show notes or email me at religiositea@gmail.com to share your stories, thoughts, insights, reactions, and much more! I'm waiting for you to spill your ReligiosiTea!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adren (00:00):
We're spilling tea on religion and health.
Where intersections of faithand healing combine.
On Religiosity.
As this podcast discussesreligious beliefs, religious
experiences, personaltestimonies, and mental and
(00:22):
physical health, some of thecontent may be uncomfortable or
triggering for some listeners.
Content warnings will beprovided in the description of
each episode.
Any personal journeys discussedon this podcast do not
constitute health, medical, orreligious advice.
We are simply trying to capturethe lived experiences of real
people who would like to sharetheir own stories about religion
(00:42):
and or health.
Amberly (00:58):
Hi, my name's Amberly.
I'm his cousin.
I'm 27.
I'm active military and I'velived in Japan and Spain and I'm
also gay.
Period.
Mark (01:14):
I'm Mark.
I'm Adren's partner.
I'm from the Philippines andcurrently I'm here in the US for
a cultural exchange as ateacher.
I'm a Roman Catholic, and I'mgay. Period.
Adren (01:33):
Period.
Alright, so, both of you grewup Catholic, one of you grew up
Mexican Catholic, and one of yougrew up Catholic in the
Philippines.
I'll let the listeners guesswhich is which, but the results
may shock you.
Can you tell me a little bitabout your experiences growing
(01:57):
up in the Catholic faith?
Amberly (02:02):
I guess for me, growing up Catholic, it was fun because
we used to go to, like,guermeses and, like, our
grandma.
We used to have, like, dancesfor the originary, and I would
go to church with them and stufflike that.
So from what I remember, it wasfun.
There wasn't a lot of, like,Catholicism, I guess, being
(02:27):
learned because I was so small.
And at some point, I guess,after my parents separated, I
started going to Christianchurch, and that's when I
definitely ruled out a religion,per se.
I just wanted to follow my ownpath, I guess you could say.
Mark (02:47):
Me, in the Philippines, my grandmother every Sunday she
brings me to the church to hearMass and we sit in like in the
first in front that's everySunday like in the afternoon and
then in October we pray therosary every night
Unknown (03:12):
not
Mark (03:13):
every year but yeah I can remember that um yeah we pray
the rosary and my first gradeteacher she always read us a
rebel story every friday that'show i know jesus or my religion
(03:35):
i guess
Adren (03:37):
nice well i appreciate you both sharing a little bit
more about your history can youtell me From your perceptions,
what kind of the core beliefsare around Catholicism or like
the major practices that kind ofany Catholic would be able to
recognize and do?
I
Amberly (04:00):
guess definitely going to church and like growing up in
a Mexican household is like youpray to the saints, you do the
whole Matachines every December,you know that, and then the
summer Mass.
And, you know, you lay thelittle kids to rest and you do
everything of that sort.
(04:20):
And then you have your AshWednesday and you do all that.
So I did grow up doing all ofthat.
And, yeah, I guess that'ssomething that my fellow
Hispanics would probably knowsomething about here being from
El Paso.
Mark (04:38):
Yeah, and the Philippines also will celebrate the Holy
Week, the Semana Santa.
and then what else we are doinglike the seven the sacraments
we have to do first communionand everything and we have to
learn the the prayers like ourfather in in in my language and
(05:00):
we live by the ten commandmentslike we memorize it and then we
do confessions yeah
Amberly (05:13):
same thing
Adren (05:16):
i've heard from other catholic people that i know that
it's very similar like shefeels that wherever she goes in
the world if she can find acatholic church she'll know more
or less what the structure ofthe service is going to be like
and that she can find a massanywhere do you guys think you
(05:39):
relate to that
Mark (05:41):
yeah because like for roman catholic they have the
liturgy like they have the partsand it's all the same it just
differs with language that'swhat i know
Amberly (05:57):
um i don't know for me i guess like i really fell off
with religion I guess when Ijoined the Navy almost eight
years ago.
So my first duty station wasJapan and there's not many
Catholics over there and if youdo there is a Christian church
that happens to be like maybe inTokyo or like rare like parts
(06:21):
of Japan but I mean their mainreligion is Buddhism and stuff
like that so if you happen to goto the one on base They rarely
offer Catholic services.
It's more so Christian andstuff like that, but I don't
know.
I guess my experience wasdifferent because every December
when I came home, I always wentto my grandma's and we did all
(06:44):
that, celebrating the VirginMary and stuff.
So I guess it's just differenteverywhere.
Adren (06:51):
And can you tell me...
In your own interpretation,what are the major moral lessons
that you take from Catholicism?
Mark (07:02):
For me, it's just the golden rule or something.
Like, do unto others what youwant others to do unto you.
And then...
Unknown (07:23):
Love thy neighbors.
Let's live that.
For me, that's
Amberly (07:30):
it.
I guess for me, like, a lotthrough high school, I followed
a similar quote that's like, andalways, like, I would always
think about that throughout highschool or, like, difficult
situations or, like, deploymentsand stuff.
So I guess that's something Itook from Catholicism and Every
(07:52):
time I go somewhere, I'm on theplane or traveling or something,
I always hold like a St.
Judas necklace.
And I also always carry alittle Virgin Mary with the
prayer on it for travel.
So something that I still holdon to.
Adren (08:09):
Can you translate the quote that you said?
Amberly (08:12):
If God is with me, who is against me?
Adren (08:18):
All right.
And...
who are like the major playersor key figures in this faith i
Amberly (08:26):
want to say it just depends who you decide not like
not to worship but i meancatholicism is a lot like the
saints in virgin mary and ofcourse there is god but i know
everybody has their specificsaints that they pray to
depending on what you expect outof it
Adren (08:47):
What's the question?
Okay.
Who are the major players orkey figures in this religion?
Mark (08:53):
In this religion?
Yeah, for Catholicism, it'sJesus.
And the Philippines, we're veryinto saints.
Like, every town, we havespecific saints that we are, how
to say, that we worship orsomething.
But for my town, we do theImmaculate Conception.
(09:16):
And then we worship Mary andother saints and also angels.
Adren (09:26):
So speaking about saints, something that we have in
Mexican folklore that I'mactually not sure if it's
related to Catholicism or if itcomes from the folk indigenous
religions, but like Santa Muerteand Santeria, is that part of
Catholicism or is that somethingthat was created by the Mexican
people?
Amberly (09:47):
Well, I've had family members and I've also had
friends that either they turnedtheir faith to La Santa Muerte,
which I grew up knowing as, Imean, you're trading your soul
with the Grim Reaper itself.
And you're going to do and obeyas it pleases and it gives you
(10:10):
everything that you want inlife.
Adren (10:17):
if that figure is part of Catholicism or not, because I
actually don't know.
Amberly (10:22):
I don't think it's part of Catholicism, but I do know
some people, like Santeria, I'vealso known it as dark
Catholicism, where it's likethey pray to the saints
differently.
They pray to them differentlyso they can get things in
return, either in a maliciousway or a very greedy way.
(10:44):
So...
it could intertwine becausethey can use the same saints
just pray to it differently andyou know like attach negative
energy and stuff like that soi've always known not to do that
basically i guess it'switchcraft whatever you don't
have
Adren (11:07):
santa muerte in the philippines what is that the
saint of death no okay so forthe listeners that's just me
clarifying something that i wasconfused on growing up
mexican-american and notcatholic like i was like
something with like the saint isit a catholic saint or
Amberly (11:28):
you know Tia Alfonso, he was a believer of La Santa
Muerte.
And
Adren (11:34):
he lived a fabulous life.
Amberly (11:36):
And he lived a fabulous life, guys.
He won the lottery.
He would go to the casino on afull moon, on a full blood moon
every time and win thousands ofdollars.
And he would come back.
I remember he had a skull inhis dresser, like a human skull
on his dresser, and it had ablack candle lit on it.
So he would light it, leave iton, go to the casino, come back,
(11:57):
give apples, oranges, leavelike a hundred dollar bill on
it.
And that man lived fabulous inhis years.
So to be a believer, I've seenthings.
So anything is possible.
Adren (12:12):
So in the Philippines, do they combine Catholicism with
any of the prior folk religionsthat existed before
colonization?
Or do you think it's like apretty pure interpretation of
the Roman Catholic Church?
Mark (12:27):
I think growing up, it's just Roman Catholicism because
we're colonized for 300 plusyears by Spain.
Our religion before it's gone.
Yeah.
(12:47):
That's what I know, that myancestors will worship the
nature, like the sun, mountains,and you know.
Adren (13:02):
The moment of silence to respect the colonization that
happened across the world fromSpain.
Mm-hmm.
so continuing on about the keyplayers and major figures do you
have a favorite saint or afavorite figure me
Mark (13:25):
when i was still like four years old like i i was in the
crib my grandmother will leaveme uh a santo nino it's like i
don't know how to in thephilippines were like in cebu
specifically in my in my islandwe People are very devoted to
Santo Niño.
It's the baby Jesus.
So my grandmother will leave mea Santo Niño figurine in my
(13:53):
crib and she will leave me alonein the house.
So I think that's...
Adren (14:04):
Your favorite?
Mark (14:05):
Yeah, and also when I was in elementary, I can remember
that I asked my aunt to buy me acrucifix, like Jesus and the
cross.
I don't know why.
I like that.
Adren (14:21):
Maybe because you grew up Catholic?
Unknown (14:23):
Yeah.
Amberly (14:30):
I guess for me it's always been like the basic, like
the Virgin Mary.
Like, I grew up around her,I've had like murals are her
i've had everything from her youknow she's like one of the
purest forms of saints and stuffand she is like the main saint
that is celebrated throughoutmexico other than yeah other
(14:54):
than san culas but we all knowsan culas is a different story
too but
Adren (15:01):
we don't know who's san culas That's Judas, right?
Amberly (15:06):
Yes, he is actually the...
Mark (15:08):
The one who betrayed Jesus?
Amberly (15:10):
He's a saint of lost causes.
So a lot of people that areinvolved criminally and have bad
decisions for life or feel lostin life, they usually pray to
the saint of lost causes.
Adren (15:27):
St.
Jude's Medical Center.
Amberly (15:29):
The lost cause.
Adren (15:31):
For the children with cancer?
Amberly (15:33):
Yeah.
so
Adren (15:35):
it's different yeah okay and
Amberly (15:38):
they also do um they do have another it's not really an
acclaimed saint but in Mexicoit's um Malverde and he is not
an official saint but peopleusually pray for him too for
money so that's another bigsaint that they celebrate over
there as well
Adren (15:57):
and what's the difference between the Virgin Mary and La
Virgen de Guadalupe
Amberly (16:03):
um I guess Americans that didn't grow up Mexican, I
guess.
We have a whole celebration atour grandma's house.
We had the Matachines dance forher.
We fed them.
We did the lighting.
We did everything towards her.
So I feel like it's a biggerworship for her than it would be
(16:28):
as an American Catholiccompared to a Mexican Catholic.
Mark (16:34):
As what I've known, it's just the same Virgin.
It's one of her apparitions.
Adren (16:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for those who don't know, LaVirgen de Guadalupe, or the
Virgin of Guadalupe, is anapparition of the Virgin Mary on
the shirt of a farmer incentral Mexico.
And allegedly, there's a museumwhere they still have that
shirt on display.
(17:01):
So you can go, they have awhole cathedral in dedication to
her.
And it was one of the majoriconographic moments that really
solidified the Catholic faithin Mexico.
It's like a very important mythof the conversion of the
Mexican people into Catholicism.
And that also plays into theMatachines, which I don't
(17:25):
know...
I don't know what thetranslation of Matachines is,
but they're...
performers who perform aroundspecific holidays particularly
in December related to theVirgin Mary and the conversion
of Mexico so they dress inindigenous costume and they
(17:45):
dance and celebrate and pray tothe Virgin Mary in celebration
of the Catholicization of Mexicoand of the indigenous
Amberly (17:55):
people they're like her dancers come and like spread
love and devotion and Throughdance.
Unknown (18:02):
Right.
Amberly (18:02):
To show.
For her I guess.
Yeah.
Unknown (18:06):
Yeah.
Amberly (18:07):
But.
Back to what you're sayingabout like the Mexican farmer.
And all that.
Our nana actually one time.
She used to babysit me when Iwas little.
But.
It's weird that there'sapparitions like that.
Because there's a lot of thatin Mexico.
Like people find it in like.
food they find it and stufflike that i feel like that's why
(18:27):
it's the main thing that showsup would be a virgin mary on a
tortilla on like anything thatshows up but my grandma did
happen to have one show up on abath towel that she had by
juarez and she kept it for manymany years on display i don't
know if you remember that butshe kept it in the guest
bathroom in the middle it was ummaroon and like cream color and
(18:50):
she would always go over andshow everybody like look this is
the path and there's the virginmary
Adren (18:54):
next time you go over because you'll probably go there
before me send me a picture yesif you can find
Unknown (18:59):
it yeah
Adren (19:10):
so Of all the stories that you've heard growing up or
reading the Bible or attendingservices, is there any that you
would say is your favorite?
Mark (19:25):
Well, my favorite Bible story is the prodigal son.
It's about two brothers.
The other one...
Asked the dad their dad to thathe wanted his part of the land
and everything he shared Andthen after that the dad gave it
(19:45):
to him and he sold his share andthen he left the family or the
place and Like go out with hisfriends spend the money with you
know, his vices and everythingand then His money ran out so
he's looking for a job and theonly job he could find is to be
(20:09):
like a farm boy or somethinglike feeding the pigs and he was
so hungry so he ate the food ofthe pig and then he realized
that in his dad's house theyhave like food and everything so
he went back and then one ofthe servants saw him like far
(20:30):
away go go into the place andthe servant told that the father
and then the father said likeoh my my son is coming home and
like kill or like kill thecattle for him like we'll have a
feast because my because my sonis back and then the other
(20:53):
brother went like from thefields he came home and asked
the servants why are we having afeast and then the servant said
like oh your brother is backand then it's like the the other
brother is like disappointed orsomething like a bad feeling
like he's telling his dad likewhy are you having feast like he
(21:17):
is the one who left us he's theone who sold everything and
then the dad said like just behappy because your brother is
back or something like that yeahthat's a beautiful
Adren (21:32):
story How does that story make you feel?
Like...
Mark (21:39):
Sometimes I feel...
Like, for reflection, sometimesI feel like I'm the...
The other son, like, who soldeverything and then got rid of
his vices and went back.
And sometimes I feel like I'mthe other brother, too.
Like, I compare myself toothers.
(21:59):
Like, I'm doing good.
Why is that?
Others seem to think that.
So, yeah.
Amberly (22:18):
I remember my dad sat me down one time and said if I
read the Bible all the way tothe end, that my eyes were going
to melt out of my eye, out ofmy socket.
And I always remember that witha grain of salt.
Adren (22:40):
So you both have had different reactions as adults to
growing up Catholic.
One of you doesn't really feelvery religious anymore.
And one of you tried to becomea priest.
And also maybe isn't the mostdevout believer now, but is
(23:05):
still quite faithful.
to the Catholic religion.
So who wants to share first,the one who left or the one who
stayed?
Amberly (23:17):
The one who stayed first.
Adren (23:21):
Okay, so where do I start?
Can you tell us about yourjourney through the discernment
program and then what followedafter as far as your faith?
Yeah.
Mark (23:36):
Well, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a priest because I
don't know.
And then after college, so Ibecome a teacher.
And then after college, I stilllike want to go back to that
like younger self's dream tobecome a priest.
(23:58):
So I applied to become apriest.
And then I get into adiscernment program.
Adren (24:06):
what is the discernment program
Mark (24:10):
it's somehow like it's not seminary yet it's a
pre-seminary like you get thereyou see the life of a seminarian
like to become a priest to bepart of a congregation and then
yeah you live like you're in aseminary like you do you have
(24:31):
routine you have um schedule yougo to school to study like
subjects like about theologyabout about the religion about
self like it's like coursesabout religion like related to
(24:54):
catholicism and just that andyou'll meet people like every
week we have like seminars wehave um guests guest speakers
from the like priests or likepeople from the religion like
from the congregation and alsothat we have like spiritual
(25:16):
director that will like we haveto like we have made
consultation like meetings everymonth or every week i don't
know i forget and then you'lltalk about like your your
process like virtuality, yourfaith, and your vocation in
general.
Adren (25:38):
So what was your overall experience going through that
process?
Mark (25:45):
Well, it was supposed to be like 10 months, like a one
school year, but I just I endedmy journey after the first
semester because after like fivemonths the last part we had a
retreat for five days like it'slike a silent retreat then I
(26:08):
decided not to continue why?
because I don't see myself likein that congregation per se or
like or I don't see myself inthat congregation like joining
them and I wanted to like jointhe other like congregation like
(26:34):
I don't know it's not acongregation but it's another
parish I don't know how toexplain because like in
Catholicism like for priests wehave the congregations like
those dominicans likefranciscans they are called
congregation and then we havealso like priests who are in
(26:58):
charge of a parish like for achurch it's called it's diocese
like a diocese so it's diocesanso i was planning like after
that um discernment program iwas planning to to join the
diocese but I did not.
Adren (27:23):
And how do you feel about your faith now?
Well, growing up, I was for 27,
Mark (27:29):
I don't know how, I forgot my age when I first came here
in the US, but let's say 27years in the Philippines, I am
surrounded by, with RomanCatholicism.
So all my life I've beenexposed to that religion.
So, I was very faithful devotedlike I go to church regularly
(27:55):
but now in the US like I don'tdrive so I can't go to church
regularly I don't want to spendmoney for uber so I don't and it
was pandemic when I came hereso church churches was not open
so I don't go to church now thatmuch
Adren (28:16):
like yeah And how do you feel about that?
Mark (28:24):
Actually, I don't
Adren (28:25):
feel anything.
Like,
Mark (28:28):
I feel okay with it not going.
Adren (28:32):
But do you still, like...
Mark (28:34):
But I still, like, do believe in God.
I still do believe in Jesus.
I still feel
Unknown (28:40):
like I'm the favorite child of God.
Okay.
Adren (28:47):
On that note, you decided as an adult, Amberlee, that you
no longer wanted toparticipate, particularly in the
Catholic faith.
What did that look like
Unknown (29:00):
for you?
Amberly (29:06):
I guess it was a lot of questioning myself and
situations.
I went through a roughadolescent years with my family,
as you know.
And I saw my brother strugglinga lot and me leaving to the
(29:31):
Navy irrationally.
I started believing less andless because I went from
terrible situations to sexualassault and everything.
And I'm like, if I'm so into myfaith, why does...
why do these things keephappening you know and that's
stuff like that like makes youquestion your faith at least for
(29:52):
me is where i was like i needto focus on my energy and
attract better people bettersituations like manifest more
things and i guess that's how iwent into a more spiritual
spiritual healing journey formyself per se of course i still
believe uh If people say, like,Dios te bendiga, I'll be like,
(30:16):
likewise and stuff like that.
I still say that.
I still bless my mom every timeI leave the house.
I still have little things thatI still take from growing up
Catholic into my adulthood.
But I don't really lean intogoing to churches and stuff like
that.
Because from my experience,I've seen people that are way
(30:38):
too into their religion are likesome of the worst people you'll
ever meet.
they're just a hit or miss butthat's kind of like what made me
not not believe in my faith butmade me question a lot of
things as an adult where i waslike why do these why do good
things happen to bad people ifgod loves you so much and he
tells you to go this path andthen it ends up like fucking you
(31:02):
over in the end it's just idon't know I guess throughout
the years I was just like itjust happened too much obviously
in the military you see a lotof crazy stuff happening and
going on so little by little Ijust you know went a different
path
Adren (31:19):
so I know that you still engage in some very specific
spiritual practices can you talkabout what those are and what
they look like
Amberly (31:32):
um I do believe in um Like limpia, I usually do them
for my cousin when I come intotown.
My mom does them for me.
I do them for friends overseas.
I do everything of that.
I do believe in cleansing yourenergy.
I also have a pile of rocks orcrystals that people say that I
(31:54):
do charge.
I sage every time I move.
I sage every time I do anythingthat's going to majorly affect
my life.
I do get my tarot cards read.
I'm a very open person.
I always believe in karma.
I believe in the universe.
i believe in uh like the higherpower and all that so
Adren (32:16):
and for those of you who don't know olympia is like a
latino folk practice ofcleansing the energy and it
looks different in a lot ofdifferent families or cultures
or regions so in our family wetypically use eggs and that are
room temperature and you pass itover someone's energy field and
(32:38):
pray over them and it'ssupposed to remove bad energies
and rebalance you and then youcrack the egg in water and it's
a form of divination where youlook into the water and see what
the egg looks like and try andfigure out what energies are
working in your life and thenyou Put spices in there, mix it
(32:59):
up, and get rid of it.
You can take it to acrossroads.
If you want to get reallyspiritual, bury it in the earth,
but we just flush it.
Amberly (33:07):
Yeah.
So typically it depends on thetype of reading the egg gives
you.
Usually if you have majorspikes, it means that somebody
is very envious of you aroundyou and is wishing bad upon you.
So when you do that, you'resupposed to sleep with it under
your bed and then...
The next day you conceal itwith chili powder, paprika,
(33:28):
vinegar, everything.
And then you were to dispose ofit in whichever way you want
to, preferably the toilet.
And then if you see any likebrown spots or dark spots or
like really, really dark redspots, it means that someone is
probably doing brujería on youor you're having health issues.
And with that, you want toimmediately conceal it and flush
(33:51):
it on the toilet.
So...
It just depends on, like, Iguess what region your family is
from in Mexico or, like, whatyou guys practice.
But that's how I grew up, andthat's how my family does it to
each other.
Adren (34:03):
Nice.
So have either of you done alot of religious exploration
into other, like, specificdenominations or faiths?
Amberly (34:18):
Um...
I know being stationed in Japanmy first couple years, I really
wasn't...
looking for another religionbut I did love learning about
different religions because ElPaso was very small when I left
and now it's a growing city butwhen I went to the navy I was in
(34:39):
cultural shock guys in ChicagoI had never I didn't even know
what monk people were I did notknow Laos people I did not know
I didn't really know aboutFilipinos I didn't know a lot
about different like ethnicitiesbecause I was we're so secluded
El Paso is so small we do haveFort Bliss but it's just so
(34:59):
small it's just mainly Hispanicpeople around you so I did love
hearing about their stories andlike their practices and their
religions and like I wouldalways ask questions like oh how
do you feel about this and thiswhat are you guys not supposed
to do so I did like um I guessresearching people and the
religion
Adren (35:20):
And that is some religiosity.
Amberly (35:23):
Period.
Adren (35:25):
What about you, Mark?
Mark (35:27):
Me?
When I was in college, I triedto attend one of my friends'
Christian service, and I did notlike it.
Just that once.
And then the rest, I, no.
Adren (35:46):
And what did you not like about it?
Because,
Mark (35:49):
like, they sing, like, their worship is more on
singing, and they're loud, and,like, everyone's crying.
Like, I did not like it.
Adren (36:03):
Like,
Mark (36:03):
I don't know.
Why are you
Adren (36:04):
crying?
So you prefer, like, jointprayer and chanting.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, thank you guys forsharing about your religious
history.
We're going to change gearsnow.
Unknown (36:21):
Okay.
Bring it on, sister.
Just kidding.
Adren (36:40):
So, how do you think Catholicism growing up
influenced...
your mental health.
Mark (36:51):
So knowing the 10 commandments, like you should
obey your parents.
So I grew up with mygrandmother.
So she's very strict and Icannot like talk back to her.
And as a kid, like, I think asI grow up that's why I think I'm
(37:14):
like silent like shy because Idon't like talk back so I
because I don't grow up likethat and like we like culture in
general in the Philippines likewe do we look up to like
seniors like seniority we haveseniority in the Philippines
like if that person is higherrank than you or like older than
(37:40):
you, you have to pay respect ingeneral.
But I think for me, religionhelps me with my mental health
also, like knowing that there'sGod looking upon you, like
(38:01):
keeping you safe.
Somehow as a kid, it makes melike more like safer comfortable
Amberly (38:16):
um I guess for me um ever since I was a teenager I
was very rebellious and Istruggled a lot with depression
and stuff like that and I wasreally pressured to be like the
perfect daughter I got goodgrades and I did everything I
(38:37):
was supposed to, but like Markhad said, I was always following
the Ten Commandments, but italso made me a very, very sneaky
teenager.
So I guess my mental healthreally declined at some point
because I was really questioningmyself.
And of course, now I am a grownwoman in my late 20s, and I am
(39:02):
a lesbian.
and um for so many years i hadto conceal that feeling that i
had inside of me because youknow you always have to listen
to your parents like they tellyou that in church and they
always you have to do the tencommandments you're not gonna go
to heaven like you will go tohell and i was so so so scared
of it until like i got so fed upof it and i'm like i just can't
(39:25):
i can't do this anymore but itgot really bad at some point i
was like trying to uh you knowgo into a different universe a
couple times as a teenager.
But yeah, I guess it reallyaffected my mental health as in
I need to be perfect.
I can't make my parents lookbad.
I can't represent my parents ina bad way because I'm gay or
(39:49):
because I want to get tattoosand piercings.
It was a mental struggleagainst my liberating thoughts
that I wanted to have and Iwanted to feel free.
So concealing that for so manyyears and then my outing was to
go to the Navy and I was able todo all these things.
So I guess, yeah, that was veryhard.
Adren (40:13):
So kind of what I'm hearing is related to this
concept that I've heard ofgrowing up from people who are
Catholic about Catholic guilt.
Can you talk about that?
Amberly (40:29):
I don't even see it as Catholic guilt.
It's like Catholic, um...
Like...
Like Catholic, uh...
What do you say it?
Like when you're...
When you want to, like, forcesomebody.
Unknown (40:43):
Coercion?
Amberly (40:44):
Yes.
It's like...
You're raised on this.
It's kind of like you're raisedon this so young.
You have no idea, like, what isgoing on.
And it's like...
Oh, shit.
Like, I have to do this becausethat's everything I've known.
Like...
What if I turn away from myreligion?
Like, am I going to go to hell?
Like, what's going to happen tome?
So it's very, like, I guessguilt, but it's also, like,
(41:08):
coercion where they're like, youbetter do this shit now or we
made this on you as a family,which has happened to me, but
whatever.
I
Adren (41:17):
claim you because of it.
Amberly (41:19):
I know.
Adren (41:28):
So how would each of you define well-being?
It's
Mark (41:34):
like being healthy, like physically, mentally also, and
maybe spiritually.
What about
Amberly (41:45):
you?
Yeah, I think it's like foryour well-being is like being,
learning how to be kind andhealthy to yourself, like
spiritually, mentally,physically, learning, Having
those attributes to pass downto...
Friends that may need it...
For their well-being...
Like caring for peoplegenuinely...
(42:05):
And...
Yeah...
I guess that's...
What I think of well-being...
Adren (42:12):
I think it's interesting that...
Mark said well-being last...
And you...
Or not well-being...
Spiritual...
Like spirituality last...
And you said it first...
Amberly (42:22):
It's because your energy attracts what...
You want around yourself...
Because for many...
years i attracted very negativepeople around my life and i was
drinking i was like going outevery night i was doing
everything and it was like veryclose-minded people that just
(42:43):
had one thing was to get drunkand like go out and have fun
whatever but when you attractgood energy around you like you
see a shift in your well-beinglike your personality your Your
face even, like, everything.
You're, like, detoxing.
So, I feel like that's whyspirituality is really big for
(43:05):
me.
It was a turning point.
Adren (43:06):
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, what does the termspiritual health mean for you?
Amberly (43:17):
Spiritual health for me...
I guess it just means, like, Ihave to...
I'm a very overwhelmed personand I get annoyed very quickly.
So sometimes I have to stepback and I go MIA on people and
I have to really process whathas gone on and what I can do to
(43:40):
improve and how I want it tolook like in the future.
So I usually like not meditate,but I'll do things on my own
where I can like refocus myenergy into something that I
want to pour it into.
So for me, it's like you haveto have your spiritual health at
100% for you to truly focus onwhat you want to get out of life
(44:02):
in that moment and in thefuture.
I
Unknown (44:11):
don't know.
Adren (44:13):
You don't know?
I mean, if you don't believe inspiritual health, you can say
that too.
This is a safe space.
You can say that it's somehokey pokey BS.
Amberly (44:22):
Hokey pokey.
Adren (44:25):
point like if you want to have like spiritual health can
mean a lot of things it can meanlike how spirituality comes
into your health and well-beingit could mean how to have a
healthy relationship withspirituality and spiritual
practices it could mean howspirituality relates to your
mental health how it contributesto the physical choices that
(44:48):
you make it can mean anythingyou want it to mean
Unknown (44:52):
but what does it mean to you i can't explain like
spiritual help for me is that
Mark (45:05):
you know um growing up is that i feel like within the if i
don't go to church i feel likefor the for the next week for
like sunday is the church andthen for monday like i feel like
less energy or something like ithink that's the um religious
(45:27):
goal i guess also too like butif i go to church um like for
the next week i feel likeenergized like i feel like i
fulfilled something like i didsomething good but now really
like if i just pray on my ownlike in the morning or before
(45:47):
going to bed and sometimes likerandom things like on my way
going to work or going to homelike I have like silent moments
with myself and I just likethink and like somehow talk to
God and somehow it's like kindof relieving my stress and
Adren (46:13):
so you both mentioned similar concepts of like
centering yourself rebalancingyour energy refocusing
reconnecting are there anyspecific practices within your
(46:35):
different spiritual practicesnow so for you maybe still
within Catholicism for youwithin your different spiritual
things that you do.
Is there any one specific thingthat you think helps you the
most with your mental health orwith your emotional regulation?
I
Amberly (46:55):
think...
Like for me, I like how I say Ihave to back up and like
recenter myself.
It's like no shade to any of myfriends, but I really like
block people out either forweeks and people know like I'm
either depressed or something,but I have to do it because I
have very toxic thoughts.
And I don't want to reflectthat on anybody else's energy.
(47:17):
So I'm like, this is what Ineed to do.
So I isolate myself and eitherlike I take long baths every
night for weeks or like I'llread.
I'll get hooked on like ondocumentaries that like could
teach me something.
I go to the gym.
What else?
I like to bake a lot.
(47:38):
So I like stress bake.
And I do like a lot of likelittle research on like the moon
and my horoscope and stuff.
So, like, you know, Mercury isin Gatorade.
I know I'm going to act up,so...
Adren (47:52):
Mercury's in retrograde right now, so...
Amberly (47:54):
Oh, no.
Adren (47:56):
But, like, I'm hearing a lot of just secular things,
which is fine.
Like, that's valid.
But I'm wondering if there'sany spiritual thing that you do,
whether it's meditation,prayer, crystal healing.
Amberly (48:08):
Oh, I definitely use my crystals, and I'll definitely
cleanse, because...
Like I'll feel like my bodytense up where I'm like so like
overwhelmed with like energythat I'm like, I need to cleanse
myself.
So I would like light up somesage or palo santo and just sit
in my living room and just likeinhale it and really try and
clear my thoughts where I'mlike, okay, this is what I need
(48:31):
to do next to make myself feelre-energized again.
Adren (48:37):
Can you describe what that looks like as a process?
Like step one, step two.
I
Amberly (48:45):
guess like my step one is me recognizing that I'm
getting overwhelmed before Iexplode.
and then my step two is likeokay my course of action of
course i'm in the military so ihave to find energy and time for
me to do this so usually i'lldo it like on a weekend or like
on a sunday or something andi'll just like sit there in
silence and like i light up acandle i light up the pano santo
(49:09):
or something and i really liketo journal and i'll journal my
thoughts and i'll journal likewhat my next course of actions
are to improve on it and i'llusually like i said i'll go mi
on everybody i'll be like ohit's like i'm in a haze i wake
up a week later and i'm likecalling my mom or my brother and
i'm like hey how are you guysbeen like you haven't called us
(49:31):
for like 14 days now like what'sgoing on but i can't i can't
express to them how like how Ihave been feeling and stuff like
that, because I don't want totransfer that energy to them.
Mark (49:51):
Yeah, I learned this in the discernment program.
Just be aware of yoursurroundings.
At the end of the day, doreflections.
What are five things thathappen to the like i feel good
about myself or like that andthen also as a catholic like
(50:18):
finding the finding god in allthings that's what i've learned
like even like oh the the coolwind or like i like the sun
brights like it's it's beautifulso like i i try to remember
those things like in a day andWhat else?
Or sometimes I feel likeoverwhelmed, feeling like a
(50:42):
positive feeling, like cominghere in the US, like sometimes
like in my third year, I stillcan't believe that I'm in the
US.
Like those feelings of likebeing grateful or something, it
kind of like helped me likeovercome stress or like,
(51:07):
problems
Adren (51:10):
so is there any advice that you have for anyone who
might want to do the practicesthat you mentioned so like
taking space to cleanse ortaking space to find god do you
have any advice for somebody whomight want to do that
Amberly (51:29):
i guess like like being spiritual like sometimes i I
will still pray and stuff likethat, but you do what makes you
feel good and what you thinkwill heal you at the moment.
Like spirituality really healsme at the moment, makes me
(51:50):
refocus myself.
So you would really need to beopen-minded on certain things
that you need to do.
Like, I feel like if you reallywant to do something, you have
to believe in it because then itwill feed back to you.
like how we say like may theuniverse continue to bless you
guys and like protect you andstuff like that you have to
(52:11):
believe like in higher power andall that that all reflects on
your energy what you put out iswhat you're gonna get in return
so just do research i guess andsee if it's for you and if it's
not just try again try anotherthing that might help you
Mark (52:32):
For me, it's just like, find a quiet place for yourself,
like, where you feel calm.
Then try to, like, for me, justfind the, like, for a day,
like, within a day, like, findthings that you feel good about
yourself, you feel good about,like, everything, like, at least
(52:55):
five things for that day.
And then try to, like, just begrateful.
Unknown (53:06):
Yeah.
Adren (53:08):
All right.
So we're kind of getting to ourfinal segment.
Do you have any advice foranyone or any information for
anyone that wants to practicewhat you practice?
So for you, your variety oflike know those spiritual
(53:31):
beliefs or for you somebody whowants to come into the catholic
faith
Amberly (53:38):
i can't really explain it how i came up on like i
watched a lot of youtube and idid a lot of um i read books or
like i started i've always beenbeen attached to crystal since i
was a little girl my my dadused to get him for me from the
truck stops because he was atruck driver so i feel like It
(53:58):
was just natural to me to be inspiritual, but definitely like
do your research, like books orlook up YouTubers and like try
and talk to people who practicespirituality and like, you know,
just get a, it's okay to trysomething new out.
It doesn't mean it's likepermanent.
So if you don't like it or youfeel like you're betraying your
(54:22):
religion, you're not, you'reyour own person and you're
entitled to do whatever you wantto.
do with your life that makesyou feel good.
So.
Mark (54:34):
Me as a Catholic, but now not practicing it that much.
Like, I don't have any advice.
I just have to like, just bekind to other people.
Like that's,
Unknown (54:47):
that's as long
Mark (54:48):
as you're not doing harm and like, I don't know, just be
kind like this.
Adren (54:56):
Okay.
Kind of a similar question, butfor anybody listening out
there, do you have any words ofwisdom or something that you've
taken from your own religions orspiritual practices that can
benefit others?
Amberly (55:17):
I guess don't let anybody tell you that you can't
do it.
Don't feel guilty for doingsomething that makes you happy.
And don't care what otherpeople think.
Because you're your ownpersonality.
You're your own mind.
And whatever you think is goingto be what you think.
(55:39):
And it's if you want to shareit to other people, if you want
to let them in.
But just be your own person.
And like Mark said, be kind.
Be respectful of others.
You need to know that there'smany other practices out there.
Mark (55:55):
words of wisdom like I don't know specifically um which
Bible verse it is but itsomething know somewhere in the
Old Testament like you'rewonderfully made so that's
really um I kept like I alwaysremember that I am wonderfully
(56:18):
made so whatever like strugglesyou are going through right now,
just remember that you are madewonderfully.
And yeah, just be kind.
Adren (56:34):
Nice.
So do you have any cautionarytales or things that someone
should consider if they want toengage in these spiritual
practices?
Amberly (56:47):
Don't get bamboozled, guys.
Don't end up in a cult.
Unknown (56:51):
research
Amberly (56:54):
do what you need to do make good friends have resources
because people are maliciousand evil out there man i don't
know yeah you gotta be carefulwith whatever you do so
Unknown (57:07):
for me
Mark (57:16):
just do what works for you like
Unknown (57:21):
I
Adren (57:24):
don't know alright I think we've spilled the tea I
want to thank you for being onthis podcast and I want to thank
the listeners you've made itthis far I hope to see you
around in the future follow myinsta at religiosity and you can
(57:46):
also follow me on threads be it
Amberly (57:50):
Period.
Unknown (57:53):
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
We're spilling tea on religion and health.
Where intersections of faithand healing combine.
On Religiosity.
As this podcast discussesreligious beliefs, religious
experiences, personaltestimonies, and mental and
(00:22):
physical health, some of thecontent may be uncomfortable or
triggering for some listeners.
Content warnings will beprovided in the description of
each episode.
Any personal journeys discussedon this podcast do not
constitute health, medical, orreligious advice.
We are simply trying to capturethe lived experiences of real
people who would like to sharetheir own stories about religion
(00:42):
and or health.
Amberly (00:58):
Hi, my name's Amberly.
I'm his cousin.
I'm 27.
I'm active military and I'velived in Japan and Spain and I'm
also gay.
Period.
Mark (01:14):
I'm Mark.
I'm Adren's partner.
I'm from the Philippines andcurrently I'm here in the US for
a cultural exchange as ateacher.
I'm a Roman Catholic, and I'mgay. Period.
Adren (01:33):
Period.
Alright, so, both of you grewup Catholic, one of you grew up
Mexican Catholic, and one of yougrew up Catholic in the
Philippines.
I'll let the listeners guesswhich is which, but the results
may shock you.
Can you tell me a little bitabout your experiences growing
(01:57):
up in the Catholic faith?
Amberly (02:02):
I guess for me, growing up Catholic, it was fun because
we used to go to, like,guermeses and, like, our
grandma.
We used to have, like, dancesfor the originary, and I would
go to church with them and stufflike that.
So from what I remember, it wasfun.
There wasn't a lot of, like,Catholicism, I guess, being
(02:27):
learned because I was so small.
And at some point, I guess,after my parents separated, I
started going to Christianchurch, and that's when I
definitely ruled out a religion,per se.
I just wanted to follow my ownpath, I guess you could say.
Mark (02:47):
Me, in the Philippines, my grandmother every Sunday she
brings me to the church to hearMass and we sit in like in the
first in front that's everySunday like in the afternoon and
then in October we pray therosary every night
Unknown (03:12):
not
Mark (03:13):
every year but yeah I can remember that um yeah we pray
the rosary and my first gradeteacher she always read us a
rebel story every friday that'show i know jesus or my religion
(03:35):
i guess
Adren (03:37):
nice well i appreciate you both sharing a little bit
more about your history can youtell me From your perceptions,
what kind of the core beliefsare around Catholicism or like
the major practices that kind ofany Catholic would be able to
recognize and do?
I
Amberly (04:00):
guess definitely going to church and like growing up in
a Mexican household is like youpray to the saints, you do the
whole Matachines every December,you know that, and then the
summer Mass.
And, you know, you lay thelittle kids to rest and you do
everything of that sort.
(04:20):
And then you have your AshWednesday and you do all that.
So I did grow up doing all ofthat.
And, yeah, I guess that'ssomething that my fellow
Hispanics would probably knowsomething about here being from
El Paso.
Mark (04:38):
Yeah, and the Philippines also will celebrate the Holy
Week, the Semana Santa.
and then what else we are doinglike the seven the sacraments
we have to do first communionand everything and we have to
learn the the prayers like ourfather in in in my language and
(05:00):
we live by the ten commandmentslike we memorize it and then we
do confessions yeah
Amberly (05:13):
same thing
Adren (05:16):
i've heard from other catholic people that i know that
it's very similar like shefeels that wherever she goes in
the world if she can find acatholic church she'll know more
or less what the structure ofthe service is going to be like
and that she can find a massanywhere do you guys think you
(05:39):
relate to that
Mark (05:41):
yeah because like for roman catholic they have the
liturgy like they have the partsand it's all the same it just
differs with language that'swhat i know
Amberly (05:57):
um i don't know for me i guess like i really fell off
with religion I guess when Ijoined the Navy almost eight
years ago.
So my first duty station wasJapan and there's not many
Catholics over there and if youdo there is a Christian church
that happens to be like maybe inTokyo or like rare like parts
(06:21):
of Japan but I mean their mainreligion is Buddhism and stuff
like that so if you happen to goto the one on base They rarely
offer Catholic services.
It's more so Christian andstuff like that, but I don't
know.
I guess my experience wasdifferent because every December
when I came home, I always wentto my grandma's and we did all
(06:44):
that, celebrating the VirginMary and stuff.
So I guess it's just differenteverywhere.
Adren (06:51):
And can you tell me...
In your own interpretation,what are the major moral lessons
that you take from Catholicism?
Mark (07:02):
For me, it's just the golden rule or something.
Like, do unto others what youwant others to do unto you.
And then...
Unknown (07:23):
Love thy neighbors.
Let's live that.
For me, that's
Amberly (07:30):
it.
I guess for me, like, a lotthrough high school, I followed
a similar quote that's like, andalways, like, I would always
think about that throughout highschool or, like, difficult
situations or, like, deploymentsand stuff.
So I guess that's something Itook from Catholicism and Every
(07:52):
time I go somewhere, I'm on theplane or traveling or something,
I always hold like a St.
Judas necklace.
And I also always carry alittle Virgin Mary with the
prayer on it for travel.
So something that I still holdon to.
Adren (08:09):
Can you translate the quote that you said?
Amberly (08:12):
If God is with me, who is against me?
Adren (08:18):
All right.
And...
who are like the major playersor key figures in this faith i
Amberly (08:26):
want to say it just depends who you decide not like
not to worship but i meancatholicism is a lot like the
saints in virgin mary and ofcourse there is god but i know
everybody has their specificsaints that they pray to
depending on what you expect outof it
Adren (08:47):
What's the question?
Okay.
Who are the major players orkey figures in this religion?
Mark (08:53):
In this religion?
Yeah, for Catholicism, it'sJesus.
And the Philippines, we're veryinto saints.
Like, every town, we havespecific saints that we are, how
to say, that we worship orsomething.
But for my town, we do theImmaculate Conception.
(09:16):
And then we worship Mary andother saints and also angels.
Adren (09:26):
So speaking about saints, something that we have in
Mexican folklore that I'mactually not sure if it's
related to Catholicism or if itcomes from the folk indigenous
religions, but like Santa Muerteand Santeria, is that part of
Catholicism or is that somethingthat was created by the Mexican
people?
Amberly (09:47):
Well, I've had family members and I've also had
friends that either they turnedtheir faith to La Santa Muerte,
which I grew up knowing as, Imean, you're trading your soul
with the Grim Reaper itself.
And you're going to do and obeyas it pleases and it gives you
(10:10):
everything that you want inlife.
Adren (10:17):
if that figure is part of Catholicism or not, because I
actually don't know.
Amberly (10:22):
I don't think it's part of Catholicism, but I do know
some people, like Santeria, I'vealso known it as dark
Catholicism, where it's likethey pray to the saints
differently.
They pray to them differentlyso they can get things in
return, either in a maliciousway or a very greedy way.
(10:44):
So...
it could intertwine becausethey can use the same saints
just pray to it differently andyou know like attach negative
energy and stuff like that soi've always known not to do that
basically i guess it'switchcraft whatever you don't
have
Adren (11:07):
santa muerte in the philippines what is that the
saint of death no okay so forthe listeners that's just me
clarifying something that i wasconfused on growing up
mexican-american and notcatholic like i was like
something with like the saint isit a catholic saint or
Amberly (11:28):
you know Tia Alfonso, he was a believer of La Santa
Muerte.
And
Adren (11:34):
he lived a fabulous life.
Amberly (11:36):
And he lived a fabulous life, guys.
He won the lottery.
He would go to the casino on afull moon, on a full blood moon
every time and win thousands ofdollars.
And he would come back.
I remember he had a skull inhis dresser, like a human skull
on his dresser, and it had ablack candle lit on it.
So he would light it, leave iton, go to the casino, come back,
(11:57):
give apples, oranges, leavelike a hundred dollar bill on
it.
And that man lived fabulous inhis years.
So to be a believer, I've seenthings.
So anything is possible.
Adren (12:12):
So in the Philippines, do they combine Catholicism with
any of the prior folk religionsthat existed before
colonization?
Or do you think it's like apretty pure interpretation of
the Roman Catholic Church?
Mark (12:27):
I think growing up, it's just Roman Catholicism because
we're colonized for 300 plusyears by Spain.
Our religion before it's gone.
Yeah.
(12:47):
That's what I know, that myancestors will worship the
nature, like the sun, mountains,and you know.
Adren (13:02):
The moment of silence to respect the colonization that
happened across the world fromSpain.
Mm-hmm.
so continuing on about the keyplayers and major figures do you
have a favorite saint or afavorite figure me
Mark (13:25):
when i was still like four years old like i i was in the
crib my grandmother will leaveme uh a santo nino it's like i
don't know how to in thephilippines were like in cebu
specifically in my in my islandwe People are very devoted to
Santo Niño.
It's the baby Jesus.
So my grandmother will leave mea Santo Niño figurine in my
(13:53):
crib and she will leave me alonein the house.
So I think that's...
Adren (14:04):
Your favorite?
Mark (14:05):
Yeah, and also when I was in elementary, I can remember
that I asked my aunt to buy me acrucifix, like Jesus and the
cross.
I don't know why.
I like that.
Adren (14:21):
Maybe because you grew up Catholic?
Unknown (14:23):
Yeah.
Amberly (14:30):
I guess for me it's always been like the basic, like
the Virgin Mary.
Like, I grew up around her,I've had like murals are her
i've had everything from her youknow she's like one of the
purest forms of saints and stuffand she is like the main saint
that is celebrated throughoutmexico other than yeah other
(14:54):
than san culas but we all knowsan culas is a different story
too but
Adren (15:01):
we don't know who's san culas That's Judas, right?
Amberly (15:06):
Yes, he is actually the...
Mark (15:08):
The one who betrayed Jesus?
Amberly (15:10):
He's a saint of lost causes.
So a lot of people that areinvolved criminally and have bad
decisions for life or feel lostin life, they usually pray to
the saint of lost causes.
Adren (15:27):
St.
Jude's Medical Center.
Amberly (15:29):
The lost cause.
Adren (15:31):
For the children with cancer?
Amberly (15:33):
Yeah.
so
Adren (15:35):
it's different yeah okay and
Amberly (15:38):
they also do um they do have another it's not really an
acclaimed saint but in Mexicoit's um Malverde and he is not
an official saint but peopleusually pray for him too for
money so that's another bigsaint that they celebrate over
there as well
Adren (15:57):
and what's the difference between the Virgin Mary and La
Virgen de Guadalupe
Amberly (16:03):
um I guess Americans that didn't grow up Mexican, I
guess.
We have a whole celebration atour grandma's house.
We had the Matachines dance forher.
We fed them.
We did the lighting.
We did everything towards her.
So I feel like it's a biggerworship for her than it would be
(16:28):
as an American Catholiccompared to a Mexican Catholic.
Mark (16:34):
As what I've known, it's just the same Virgin.
It's one of her apparitions.
Adren (16:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for those who don't know, LaVirgen de Guadalupe, or the
Virgin of Guadalupe, is anapparition of the Virgin Mary on
the shirt of a farmer incentral Mexico.
And allegedly, there's a museumwhere they still have that
shirt on display.
(17:01):
So you can go, they have awhole cathedral in dedication to
her.
And it was one of the majoriconographic moments that really
solidified the Catholic faithin Mexico.
It's like a very important mythof the conversion of the
Mexican people into Catholicism.
And that also plays into theMatachines, which I don't
(17:25):
know...
I don't know what thetranslation of Matachines is,
but they're...
performers who perform aroundspecific holidays particularly
in December related to theVirgin Mary and the conversion
of Mexico so they dress inindigenous costume and they
(17:45):
dance and celebrate and pray tothe Virgin Mary in celebration
of the Catholicization of Mexicoand of the indigenous
Amberly (17:55):
people they're like her dancers come and like spread
love and devotion and Throughdance.
Unknown (18:02):
Right.
Amberly (18:02):
To show.
For her I guess.
Yeah.
Unknown (18:06):
Yeah.
Amberly (18:07):
But.
Back to what you're sayingabout like the Mexican farmer.
And all that.
Our nana actually one time.
She used to babysit me when Iwas little.
But.
It's weird that there'sapparitions like that.
Because there's a lot of thatin Mexico.
Like people find it in like.
food they find it and stufflike that i feel like that's why
(18:27):
it's the main thing that showsup would be a virgin mary on a
tortilla on like anything thatshows up but my grandma did
happen to have one show up on abath towel that she had by
juarez and she kept it for manymany years on display i don't
know if you remember that butshe kept it in the guest
bathroom in the middle it was ummaroon and like cream color and
(18:50):
she would always go over andshow everybody like look this is
the path and there's the virginmary
Adren (18:54):
next time you go over because you'll probably go there
before me send me a picture yesif you can find
Unknown (18:59):
it yeah
Adren (19:10):
so Of all the stories that you've heard growing up or
reading the Bible or attendingservices, is there any that you
would say is your favorite?
Mark (19:25):
Well, my favorite Bible story is the prodigal son.
It's about two brothers.
The other one...
Asked the dad their dad to thathe wanted his part of the land
and everything he shared Andthen after that the dad gave it
(19:45):
to him and he sold his share andthen he left the family or the
place and Like go out with hisfriends spend the money with you
know, his vices and everythingand then His money ran out so
he's looking for a job and theonly job he could find is to be
(20:09):
like a farm boy or somethinglike feeding the pigs and he was
so hungry so he ate the food ofthe pig and then he realized
that in his dad's house theyhave like food and everything so
he went back and then one ofthe servants saw him like far
(20:30):
away go go into the place andthe servant told that the father
and then the father said likeoh my my son is coming home and
like kill or like kill thecattle for him like we'll have a
feast because my because my sonis back and then the other
(20:53):
brother went like from thefields he came home and asked
the servants why are we having afeast and then the servant said
like oh your brother is backand then it's like the the other
brother is like disappointed orsomething like a bad feeling
like he's telling his dad likewhy are you having feast like he
(21:17):
is the one who left us he's theone who sold everything and
then the dad said like just behappy because your brother is
back or something like that yeahthat's a beautiful
Adren (21:32):
story How does that story make you feel?
Like...
Mark (21:39):
Sometimes I feel...
Like, for reflection, sometimesI feel like I'm the...
The other son, like, who soldeverything and then got rid of
his vices and went back.
And sometimes I feel like I'mthe other brother, too.
Like, I compare myself toothers.
(21:59):
Like, I'm doing good.
Why is that?
Others seem to think that.
So, yeah.
Amberly (22:18):
I remember my dad sat me down one time and said if I
read the Bible all the way tothe end, that my eyes were going
to melt out of my eye, out ofmy socket.
And I always remember that witha grain of salt.
Adren (22:40):
So you both have had different reactions as adults to
growing up Catholic.
One of you doesn't really feelvery religious anymore.
And one of you tried to becomea priest.
And also maybe isn't the mostdevout believer now, but is
(23:05):
still quite faithful.
to the Catholic religion.
So who wants to share first,the one who left or the one who
stayed?
Amberly (23:17):
The one who stayed first.
Adren (23:21):
Okay, so where do I start?
Can you tell us about yourjourney through the discernment
program and then what followedafter as far as your faith?
Yeah.
Mark (23:36):
Well, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a priest because I
don't know.
And then after college, so Ibecome a teacher.
And then after college, I stilllike want to go back to that
like younger self's dream tobecome a priest.
(23:58):
So I applied to become apriest.
And then I get into adiscernment program.
Adren (24:06):
what is the discernment program
Mark (24:10):
it's somehow like it's not seminary yet it's a
pre-seminary like you get thereyou see the life of a seminarian
like to become a priest to bepart of a congregation and then
yeah you live like you're in aseminary like you do you have
(24:31):
routine you have um schedule yougo to school to study like
subjects like about theologyabout about the religion about
self like it's like coursesabout religion like related to
(24:54):
catholicism and just that andyou'll meet people like every
week we have like seminars wehave um guests guest speakers
from the like priests or likepeople from the religion like
from the congregation and alsothat we have like spiritual
(25:16):
director that will like we haveto like we have made
consultation like meetings everymonth or every week i don't
know i forget and then you'lltalk about like your your
process like virtuality, yourfaith, and your vocation in
general.
Adren (25:38):
So what was your overall experience going through that
process?
Mark (25:45):
Well, it was supposed to be like 10 months, like a one
school year, but I just I endedmy journey after the first
semester because after like fivemonths the last part we had a
retreat for five days like it'slike a silent retreat then I
(26:08):
decided not to continue why?
because I don't see myself likein that congregation per se or
like or I don't see myself inthat congregation like joining
them and I wanted to like jointhe other like congregation like
(26:34):
I don't know it's not acongregation but it's another
parish I don't know how toexplain because like in
Catholicism like for priests wehave the congregations like
those dominicans likefranciscans they are called
congregation and then we havealso like priests who are in
(26:58):
charge of a parish like for achurch it's called it's diocese
like a diocese so it's diocesanso i was planning like after
that um discernment program iwas planning to to join the
diocese but I did not.
Adren (27:23):
And how do you feel about your faith now?
Well, growing up, I was for 27,
Mark (27:29):
I don't know how, I forgot my age when I first came here
in the US, but let's say 27years in the Philippines, I am
surrounded by, with RomanCatholicism.
So all my life I've beenexposed to that religion.
So, I was very faithful devotedlike I go to church regularly
(27:55):
but now in the US like I don'tdrive so I can't go to church
regularly I don't want to spendmoney for uber so I don't and it
was pandemic when I came hereso church churches was not open
so I don't go to church now thatmuch
Adren (28:16):
like yeah And how do you feel about that?
Mark (28:24):
Actually, I don't
Adren (28:25):
feel anything.
Like,
Mark (28:28):
I feel okay with it not going.
Adren (28:32):
But do you still, like...
Mark (28:34):
But I still, like, do believe in God.
I still do believe in Jesus.
I still feel
Unknown (28:40):
like I'm the favorite child of God.
Okay.
Adren (28:47):
On that note, you decided as an adult, Amberlee, that you
no longer wanted toparticipate, particularly in the
Catholic faith.
What did that look like
Unknown (29:00):
for you?
Amberly (29:06):
I guess it was a lot of questioning myself and
situations.
I went through a roughadolescent years with my family,
as you know.
And I saw my brother strugglinga lot and me leaving to the
(29:31):
Navy irrationally.
I started believing less andless because I went from
terrible situations to sexualassault and everything.
And I'm like, if I'm so into myfaith, why does...
why do these things keephappening you know and that's
stuff like that like makes youquestion your faith at least for
(29:52):
me is where i was like i needto focus on my energy and
attract better people bettersituations like manifest more
things and i guess that's how iwent into a more spiritual
spiritual healing journey formyself per se of course i still
believe uh If people say, like,Dios te bendiga, I'll be like,
(30:16):
likewise and stuff like that.
I still say that.
I still bless my mom every timeI leave the house.
I still have little things thatI still take from growing up
Catholic into my adulthood.
But I don't really lean intogoing to churches and stuff like
that.
Because from my experience,I've seen people that are way
(30:38):
too into their religion are likesome of the worst people you'll
ever meet.
they're just a hit or miss butthat's kind of like what made me
not not believe in my faith butmade me question a lot of
things as an adult where i waslike why do these why do good
things happen to bad people ifgod loves you so much and he
tells you to go this path andthen it ends up like fucking you
(31:02):
over in the end it's just idon't know I guess throughout
the years I was just like itjust happened too much obviously
in the military you see a lotof crazy stuff happening and
going on so little by little Ijust you know went a different
path
Adren (31:19):
so I know that you still engage in some very specific
spiritual practices can you talkabout what those are and what
they look like
Amberly (31:32):
um I do believe in um Like limpia, I usually do them
for my cousin when I come intotown.
My mom does them for me.
I do them for friends overseas.
I do everything of that.
I do believe in cleansing yourenergy.
I also have a pile of rocks orcrystals that people say that I
(31:54):
do charge.
I sage every time I move.
I sage every time I do anythingthat's going to majorly affect
my life.
I do get my tarot cards read.
I'm a very open person.
I always believe in karma.
I believe in the universe.
i believe in uh like the higherpower and all that so
Adren (32:16):
and for those of you who don't know olympia is like a
latino folk practice ofcleansing the energy and it
looks different in a lot ofdifferent families or cultures
or regions so in our family wetypically use eggs and that are
room temperature and you pass itover someone's energy field and
(32:38):
pray over them and it'ssupposed to remove bad energies
and rebalance you and then youcrack the egg in water and it's
a form of divination where youlook into the water and see what
the egg looks like and try andfigure out what energies are
working in your life and thenyou Put spices in there, mix it
(32:59):
up, and get rid of it.
You can take it to acrossroads.
If you want to get reallyspiritual, bury it in the earth,
but we just flush it.
Amberly (33:07):
Yeah.
So typically it depends on thetype of reading the egg gives
you.
Usually if you have majorspikes, it means that somebody
is very envious of you aroundyou and is wishing bad upon you.
So when you do that, you'resupposed to sleep with it under
your bed and then...
The next day you conceal itwith chili powder, paprika,
(33:28):
vinegar, everything.
And then you were to dispose ofit in whichever way you want
to, preferably the toilet.
And then if you see any likebrown spots or dark spots or
like really, really dark redspots, it means that someone is
probably doing brujería on youor you're having health issues.
And with that, you want toimmediately conceal it and flush
(33:51):
it on the toilet.
So...
It just depends on, like, Iguess what region your family is
from in Mexico or, like, whatyou guys practice.
But that's how I grew up, andthat's how my family does it to
each other.
Adren (34:03):
Nice.
So have either of you done alot of religious exploration
into other, like, specificdenominations or faiths?
Amberly (34:18):
Um...
I know being stationed in Japanmy first couple years, I really
wasn't...
looking for another religionbut I did love learning about
different religions because ElPaso was very small when I left
and now it's a growing city butwhen I went to the navy I was in
(34:39):
cultural shock guys in ChicagoI had never I didn't even know
what monk people were I did notknow Laos people I did not know
I didn't really know aboutFilipinos I didn't know a lot
about different like ethnicitiesbecause I was we're so secluded
El Paso is so small we do haveFort Bliss but it's just so
(34:59):
small it's just mainly Hispanicpeople around you so I did love
hearing about their stories andlike their practices and their
religions and like I wouldalways ask questions like oh how
do you feel about this and thiswhat are you guys not supposed
to do so I did like um I guessresearching people and the
religion
Adren (35:20):
And that is some religiosity.
Amberly (35:23):
Period.
Adren (35:25):
What about you, Mark?
Mark (35:27):
Me?
When I was in college, I triedto attend one of my friends'
Christian service, and I did notlike it.
Just that once.
And then the rest, I, no.
Adren (35:46):
And what did you not like about it?
Because,
Mark (35:49):
like, they sing, like, their worship is more on
singing, and they're loud, and,like, everyone's crying.
Like, I did not like it.
Adren (36:03):
Like,
Mark (36:03):
I don't know.
Why are you
Adren (36:04):
crying?
So you prefer, like, jointprayer and chanting.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, thank you guys forsharing about your religious
history.
We're going to change gearsnow.
Unknown (36:21):
Okay.
Bring it on, sister.
Just kidding.
Adren (36:40):
So, how do you think Catholicism growing up
influenced...
your mental health.
Mark (36:51):
So knowing the 10 commandments, like you should
obey your parents.
So I grew up with mygrandmother.
So she's very strict and Icannot like talk back to her.
And as a kid, like, I think asI grow up that's why I think I'm
(37:14):
like silent like shy because Idon't like talk back so I
because I don't grow up likethat and like we like culture in
general in the Philippines likewe do we look up to like
seniors like seniority we haveseniority in the Philippines
like if that person is higherrank than you or like older than
(37:40):
you, you have to pay respect ingeneral.
But I think for me, religionhelps me with my mental health
also, like knowing that there'sGod looking upon you, like
(38:01):
keeping you safe.
Somehow as a kid, it makes melike more like safer comfortable
Amberly (38:16):
um I guess for me um ever since I was a teenager I
was very rebellious and Istruggled a lot with depression
and stuff like that and I wasreally pressured to be like the
perfect daughter I got goodgrades and I did everything I
(38:37):
was supposed to, but like Markhad said, I was always following
the Ten Commandments, but italso made me a very, very sneaky
teenager.
So I guess my mental healthreally declined at some point
because I was really questioningmyself.
And of course, now I am a grownwoman in my late 20s, and I am
(39:02):
a lesbian.
and um for so many years i hadto conceal that feeling that i
had inside of me because youknow you always have to listen
to your parents like they tellyou that in church and they
always you have to do the tencommandments you're not gonna go
to heaven like you will go tohell and i was so so so scared
of it until like i got so fed upof it and i'm like i just can't
(39:25):
i can't do this anymore but itgot really bad at some point i
was like trying to uh you knowgo into a different universe a
couple times as a teenager.
But yeah, I guess it reallyaffected my mental health as in
I need to be perfect.
I can't make my parents lookbad.
I can't represent my parents ina bad way because I'm gay or
(39:49):
because I want to get tattoosand piercings.
It was a mental struggleagainst my liberating thoughts
that I wanted to have and Iwanted to feel free.
So concealing that for so manyyears and then my outing was to
go to the Navy and I was able todo all these things.
So I guess, yeah, that was veryhard.
Adren (40:13):
So kind of what I'm hearing is related to this
concept that I've heard ofgrowing up from people who are
Catholic about Catholic guilt.
Can you talk about that?
Amberly (40:29):
I don't even see it as Catholic guilt.
It's like Catholic, um...
Like...
Like Catholic, uh...
What do you say it?
Like when you're...
When you want to, like, forcesomebody.
Unknown (40:43):
Coercion?
Amberly (40:44):
Yes.
It's like...
You're raised on this.
It's kind of like you're raisedon this so young.
You have no idea, like, what isgoing on.
And it's like...
Oh, shit.
Like, I have to do this becausethat's everything I've known.
Like...
What if I turn away from myreligion?
Like, am I going to go to hell?
Like, what's going to happen tome?
So it's very, like, I guessguilt, but it's also, like,
(41:08):
coercion where they're like, youbetter do this shit now or we
made this on you as a family,which has happened to me, but
whatever.
I
Adren (41:17):
claim you because of it.
Amberly (41:19):
I know.
Adren (41:28):
So how would each of you define well-being?
It's
Mark (41:34):
like being healthy, like physically, mentally also, and
maybe spiritually.
What about
Amberly (41:45):
you?
Yeah, I think it's like foryour well-being is like being,
learning how to be kind andhealthy to yourself, like
spiritually, mentally,physically, learning, Having
those attributes to pass downto...
Friends that may need it...
For their well-being...
Like caring for peoplegenuinely...
(42:05):
And...
Yeah...
I guess that's...
What I think of well-being...
Adren (42:12):
I think it's interesting that...
Mark said well-being last...
And you...
Or not well-being...
Spiritual...
Like spirituality last...
And you said it first...
Amberly (42:22):
It's because your energy attracts what...
You want around yourself...
Because for many...
years i attracted very negativepeople around my life and i was
drinking i was like going outevery night i was doing
everything and it was like veryclose-minded people that just
(42:43):
had one thing was to get drunkand like go out and have fun
whatever but when you attractgood energy around you like you
see a shift in your well-beinglike your personality your Your
face even, like, everything.
You're, like, detoxing.
So, I feel like that's whyspirituality is really big for
(43:05):
me.
It was a turning point.
Adren (43:06):
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, what does the termspiritual health mean for you?
Amberly (43:17):
Spiritual health for me...
I guess it just means, like, Ihave to...
I'm a very overwhelmed personand I get annoyed very quickly.
So sometimes I have to stepback and I go MIA on people and
I have to really process whathas gone on and what I can do to
(43:40):
improve and how I want it tolook like in the future.
So I usually like not meditate,but I'll do things on my own
where I can like refocus myenergy into something that I
want to pour it into.
So for me, it's like you haveto have your spiritual health at
100% for you to truly focus onwhat you want to get out of life
(44:02):
in that moment and in thefuture.
I
Unknown (44:11):
don't know.
Adren (44:13):
You don't know?
I mean, if you don't believe inspiritual health, you can say
that too.
This is a safe space.
You can say that it's somehokey pokey BS.
Amberly (44:22):
Hokey pokey.
Adren (44:25):
point like if you want to have like spiritual health can
mean a lot of things it can meanlike how spirituality comes
into your health and well-beingit could mean how to have a
healthy relationship withspirituality and spiritual
practices it could mean howspirituality relates to your
mental health how it contributesto the physical choices that
(44:48):
you make it can mean anythingyou want it to mean
Unknown (44:52):
but what does it mean to you i can't explain like
spiritual help for me is that
Mark (45:05):
you know um growing up is that i feel like within the if i
don't go to church i feel likefor the for the next week for
like sunday is the church andthen for monday like i feel like
less energy or something like ithink that's the um religious
(45:27):
goal i guess also too like butif i go to church um like for
the next week i feel likeenergized like i feel like i
fulfilled something like i didsomething good but now really
like if i just pray on my ownlike in the morning or before
(45:47):
going to bed and sometimes likerandom things like on my way
going to work or going to homelike I have like silent moments
with myself and I just likethink and like somehow talk to
God and somehow it's like kindof relieving my stress and
Adren (46:13):
so you both mentioned similar concepts of like
centering yourself rebalancingyour energy refocusing
reconnecting are there anyspecific practices within your
(46:35):
different spiritual practicesnow so for you maybe still
within Catholicism for youwithin your different spiritual
things that you do.
Is there any one specific thingthat you think helps you the
most with your mental health orwith your emotional regulation?
I
Amberly (46:55):
think...
Like for me, I like how I say Ihave to back up and like
recenter myself.
It's like no shade to any of myfriends, but I really like
block people out either forweeks and people know like I'm
either depressed or something,but I have to do it because I
have very toxic thoughts.
And I don't want to reflectthat on anybody else's energy.
(47:17):
So I'm like, this is what Ineed to do.
So I isolate myself and eitherlike I take long baths every
night for weeks or like I'llread.
I'll get hooked on like ondocumentaries that like could
teach me something.
I go to the gym.
What else?
I like to bake a lot.
(47:38):
So I like stress bake.
And I do like a lot of likelittle research on like the moon
and my horoscope and stuff.
So, like, you know, Mercury isin Gatorade.
I know I'm going to act up,so...
Adren (47:52):
Mercury's in retrograde right now, so...
Amberly (47:54):
Oh, no.
Adren (47:56):
But, like, I'm hearing a lot of just secular things,
which is fine.
Like, that's valid.
But I'm wondering if there'sany spiritual thing that you do,
whether it's meditation,prayer, crystal healing.
Amberly (48:08):
Oh, I definitely use my crystals, and I'll definitely
cleanse, because...
Like I'll feel like my bodytense up where I'm like so like
overwhelmed with like energythat I'm like, I need to cleanse
myself.
So I would like light up somesage or palo santo and just sit
in my living room and just likeinhale it and really try and
clear my thoughts where I'mlike, okay, this is what I need
(48:31):
to do next to make myself feelre-energized again.
Adren (48:37):
Can you describe what that looks like as a process?
Like step one, step two.
I
Amberly (48:45):
guess like my step one is me recognizing that I'm
getting overwhelmed before Iexplode.
and then my step two is likeokay my course of action of
course i'm in the military so ihave to find energy and time for
me to do this so usually i'lldo it like on a weekend or like
on a sunday or something andi'll just like sit there in
silence and like i light up acandle i light up the pano santo
(49:09):
or something and i really liketo journal and i'll journal my
thoughts and i'll journal likewhat my next course of actions
are to improve on it and i'llusually like i said i'll go mi
on everybody i'll be like ohit's like i'm in a haze i wake
up a week later and i'm likecalling my mom or my brother and
i'm like hey how are you guysbeen like you haven't called us
(49:31):
for like 14 days now like what'sgoing on but i can't i can't
express to them how like how Ihave been feeling and stuff like
that, because I don't want totransfer that energy to them.
Mark (49:51):
Yeah, I learned this in the discernment program.
Just be aware of yoursurroundings.
At the end of the day, doreflections.
What are five things thathappen to the like i feel good
about myself or like that andthen also as a catholic like
(50:18):
finding the finding god in allthings that's what i've learned
like even like oh the the coolwind or like i like the sun
brights like it's it's beautifulso like i i try to remember
those things like in a day andWhat else?
Or sometimes I feel likeoverwhelmed, feeling like a
(50:42):
positive feeling, like cominghere in the US, like sometimes
like in my third year, I stillcan't believe that I'm in the
US.
Like those feelings of likebeing grateful or something, it
kind of like helped me likeovercome stress or like,
(51:07):
problems
Adren (51:10):
so is there any advice that you have for anyone who
might want to do the practicesthat you mentioned so like
taking space to cleanse ortaking space to find god do you
have any advice for somebody whomight want to do that
Amberly (51:29):
i guess like like being spiritual like sometimes i I
will still pray and stuff likethat, but you do what makes you
feel good and what you thinkwill heal you at the moment.
Like spirituality really healsme at the moment, makes me
(51:50):
refocus myself.
So you would really need to beopen-minded on certain things
that you need to do.
Like, I feel like if you reallywant to do something, you have
to believe in it because then itwill feed back to you.
like how we say like may theuniverse continue to bless you
guys and like protect you andstuff like that you have to
(52:11):
believe like in higher power andall that that all reflects on
your energy what you put out iswhat you're gonna get in return
so just do research i guess andsee if it's for you and if it's
not just try again try anotherthing that might help you
Mark (52:32):
For me, it's just like, find a quiet place for yourself,
like, where you feel calm.
Then try to, like, for me, justfind the, like, for a day,
like, within a day, like, findthings that you feel good about
yourself, you feel good about,like, everything, like, at least
(52:55):
five things for that day.
And then try to, like, just begrateful.
Unknown (53:06):
Yeah.
Adren (53:08):
All right.
So we're kind of getting to ourfinal segment.
Do you have any advice foranyone or any information for
anyone that wants to practicewhat you practice?
So for you, your variety oflike know those spiritual
(53:31):
beliefs or for you somebody whowants to come into the catholic
faith
Amberly (53:38):
i can't really explain it how i came up on like i
watched a lot of youtube and idid a lot of um i read books or
like i started i've always beenbeen attached to crystal since i
was a little girl my my dadused to get him for me from the
truck stops because he was atruck driver so i feel like It
(53:58):
was just natural to me to be inspiritual, but definitely like
do your research, like books orlook up YouTubers and like try
and talk to people who practicespirituality and like, you know,
just get a, it's okay to trysomething new out.
It doesn't mean it's likepermanent.
So if you don't like it or youfeel like you're betraying your
(54:22):
religion, you're not, you'reyour own person and you're
entitled to do whatever you wantto.
do with your life that makesyou feel good.
So.
Mark (54:34):
Me as a Catholic, but now not practicing it that much.
Like, I don't have any advice.
I just have to like, just bekind to other people.
Like that's,
Unknown (54:47):
that's as long
Mark (54:48):
as you're not doing harm and like, I don't know, just be
kind like this.
Adren (54:56):
Okay.
Kind of a similar question, butfor anybody listening out
there, do you have any words ofwisdom or something that you've
taken from your own religions orspiritual practices that can
benefit others?
Amberly (55:17):
I guess don't let anybody tell you that you can't
do it.
Don't feel guilty for doingsomething that makes you happy.
And don't care what otherpeople think.
Because you're your ownpersonality.
You're your own mind.
And whatever you think is goingto be what you think.
(55:39):
And it's if you want to shareit to other people, if you want
to let them in.
But just be your own person.
And like Mark said, be kind.
Be respectful of others.
You need to know that there'smany other practices out there.
Mark (55:55):
words of wisdom like I don't know specifically um which
Bible verse it is but itsomething know somewhere in the
Old Testament like you'rewonderfully made so that's
really um I kept like I alwaysremember that I am wonderfully
(56:18):
made so whatever like strugglesyou are going through right now,
just remember that you are madewonderfully.
And yeah, just be kind.
Adren (56:34):
Nice.
So do you have any cautionarytales or things that someone
should consider if they want toengage in these spiritual
practices?
Amberly (56:47):
Don't get bamboozled, guys.
Don't end up in a cult.
Unknown (56:51):
research
Amberly (56:54):
do what you need to do make good friends have resources
because people are maliciousand evil out there man i don't
know yeah you gotta be carefulwith whatever you do so
Unknown (57:07):
for me
Mark (57:16):
just do what works for you like
Unknown (57:21):
I
Adren (57:24):
don't know alright I think we've spilled the tea I
want to thank you for being onthis podcast and I want to thank
the listeners you've made itthis far I hope to see you
around in the future follow myinsta at religiosity and you can
(57:46):
also follow me on threads be it
Amberly (57:50):
Period.
Unknown (57:53):
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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