The Preacher's Daughter, A Witch

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Content Warnings:

This episode contains discussions of:

• Mental health struggles, including depression and anxiety
• Religious trauma and themes of spiritual disconnection
• Paranormal experiences and supernatural encounters
• Death and illness, including family health crises
• Guns and references to firearm use
• Sexual and sensual content, including dream experiences involving desire and boundaries

Please listen with care and step away if you need to. Take what resonates, and leave what doesn’t.

Episode Description:

What happens when the God you were raised to love never speaks back—but a wolf god does?

In this deeply personal episode, Brittany shares her spiral journey from Baptist churches and childhood guilt to sigils, scrying, and self-resurrection through witchcraft and Norse mythology. After years of struggling with depression and anxiety—and a strained relationship with her preacher father—Brittany began exploring alternative spiritualities that not only made space for her questions, but talked back.

We explore:

• The misunderstood story of Fenrir, and what it means to feel rage and still be sacred
• How Freya became a guide for self-love, boundaries, and feminine reclamation
• The difference between being told what to believe and feeling something for the first time
• What it means to “work with” deities, including dreams, offerings, and shadow work
• The grief of religious disconnection and the strange empowerment of supernatural experiences

This deeply personal conversation explores how alternative spiritual frameworks can transform mental health when conventional approaches fall short. Having struggled with anxiety and depression for nearly two decades, Brittany found that therapy gave her tools she couldn't effectively use until discovering witchcraft: "It helped me pinpoint all the problems I needed to focus on. Everything they taught me in therapy before, I now figured out how to utilize properly." 

We dive into fascinating aspects of Norse mythology, including the misunderstood story of Fenrir and the multifaceted nature of Freya. Brittany explains how these deities became active collaborators in her healing journey, helping with everything from anger management to self-love. "When I practice, I feel on top of my game," she shares. "My entire attitude shifts and I love it." 

The episode also explores practical elements of witchcraft - from scrying and sigil-making to protection protocols - while addressing important considerations like cultural appropriation and misinformation in spiritual communities. Brittany's advice for newcomers emphasizes research, protection, and developing personal discernment. Whether you're curious about alternative spirituality or seeking ways to enhance your own well-being, this conversation offers valuable insights about finding authentic connection with the divine. As Brittany wisely notes: "No matter what deities or religion you rely upon, you need to have a one-on-one relationship. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise."

This episode unpacks the emotional, spiritual, and mental health impact of finding a belief system that works on your terms—even when it means leaving everything you were taught behind.

“Witchcraft gave me the tools to finally use what I learned in therapy.”

Follow me on Instagram and Threads: @ReligiosiTea

You can use the link at the top of the show notes or email me at [e-mail] to share your stories, thoughts, insights, reactions, and much more

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
We're spilling tea on religion and health, when
intersections of faith andhealing combine.
On religiosity, as this podcastdiscusses religious beliefs,
religious experiences, personaltestimonies and mental and

(00:46):
physical health.
Some of the today I'm talkingto my friend, Brittany.
Can you tell us something aboutyourself, Brittany?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
So I'm Brittany, I like to lounge around and I like
to play video games and I'minto witchcraft and really like
to explore spiritually.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Nice.
Can you we're going to likestart strong.
Can you tell me about yourcurrent religion, spiritual
practices or beliefs?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
So currently I would say that I identify more as
spiritual than anything else.
I do practice witchcraft.
It goes in and out sometimes,but mostly I've been a little
bit more connecting towards theNorse pantheology instead.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
So can you tell me?
I'm hearing a couple differentthings, right, so let's start
with witchcraft.
Yes, Can you tell me for youwhat are like the core beliefs
or foundations of that beliefsystem for you?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I wouldn't know if there's like core beliefs,
because there's so manydifferent things that can go
into it because, there's so manydifferent things that can go
into it.
So I really think it just kindof goes with the deities that
you have or you don't havebecause you don't need them.
It could also be I don't know,that's like a loaded question.

(02:17):
It could also be just how youwork in order to keep yourself
grounded or just completelystabilize yourself in your life.
I think the biggest rule that Iknow that stands out for
everything is just research.

(02:37):
Research before anything.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
So what about for you Like, what are your core
beliefs with this?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
My personal is definitely research, always
research before you do, and thenjust go with the flow.
Go with what feels right Like,follow your intuition, really
ground yourself to where you canhear and feel what will go
right for you hear and feel whatwill go right for you.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So for you, it's more about the experience and
feeling your way through what itis that you're doing, rather
than relying on like a framework.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yes, because it's like I could just go off of like
a whole bunch of videos andother stuff that other people do
, but it's always best to makesomething that's from yourself
instead.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
When I used to participate in those spaces.
It's kind of like how theywould say, it's the craft in
witchcraft, like you have to putyourself into it and do things
that feel good for you and thatreally represent what you're
trying to do.
Yes, so now going into Norsemythology, I think, surprisingly

(03:46):
, I think people know more aboutwitchcraft than they know about
that, so I know a little bitabout that.
But from your perspective,where do you see Norse mythology
coming into your life?

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It was very Actually it still is very complicated
because there's not much that wecan actually go off of for
norse mythology because it waspretty fuddled throughout
history due to, like, the wholechristianity movement going out
throughout the world so and theuh norse didn't actually

(04:27):
document like other cultureswould have until christianity
came around, that's when theyhad scholars from them try to
write down stories um allthroughout, like iceland,
certain parts of germany,scandin and all of that.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's really cool.
It's like salvage anthropology.
I don't know if you've heard ofthat, but it's Franz Boas, the
father of American anthropology.
He came in and started workingwith indigenous peoples who were
being erased by ongoingcolonization.
So he trained indigenous peopleto do anthropology of their own

(05:07):
culture and this was topreserve their belief systems,
to preserve their histories,their oral traditions, through
writing.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
And their languages, and some of those efforts were
more successful than others.
But do you think what you'reexplaining was kind of like a
way back version of this,because they were trying to
retain their identity a littlebit?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
it's hard because it was like I wish I remembered his
name, but it was a specificscholar.
He was a monk that wroteeverything down.
So he's already coming from acertain perspective with
christianity and he's hearing itfrom multiple places, but
there's multiple stories thatare almost the same, and then
he's trying to translate it sothat other people can understand

(05:49):
the culture and the stories aswell, but it would get muddled
because he's not originally fromthere either.
So there's a lot ofmistranslations.
There's a lot of I.
I noticed a lot was the blackand white mentality, like
there's always good and evil.
It's not really how the Norselike worked, but because of the

(06:11):
stories that are transitionedfrom that specific scholar, you
can see it so.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay, so I misunderstood what you said.
Sorry, no, it's okay.
I thought it was the Norsepeople doing the work, but it
was.
So that's just anthropology.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, the norse did not document anything.
I mean, they had their ownalphabet and everything, but for
some strange reason they justdid not have a want to write any
of their stuff down or at leastthat we've uncovered yeah have
you read the poetic eddas?
I've gotten some that's fair.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's fair, um, okay , so, from what you have learned
, what are the core beliefs ofthis pantheon?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
from what I have learned, I want to say most of
them are just stories, butthey're all configured together
for lessons of some sort so likefables yes okay, and what do
they teach you about how to livelike?

Speaker 1 (07:19):
what are their morals ?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
well, at least back then it was just like either die
on the battlefield, um, diebetween a woman's thighs, or you
just don't go to Valhalla.
Those are the only two optionsof how to get you there, um, but
it seemed like love was notone-sided.

(07:45):
For something back then that wasdefinitely one-sided, like the
feminine had its role and thenthe male had its role, but here
it was just like, kind of whatwe fight for today, it was
already there, like females weredoing male jobs.
They were trained to also fightalongside, um, if something

(08:06):
happened to them where they were, um assaulted, uh, they got
fair trials.
It wasn't just like oh, you'rea woman, that's it.
So yeah, the only thing thatseemed a little bit gendered was
the, the practice of magic.
That was usually safe for thewomen, not necessarily the men,
which is weird because Odin alsodid that.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
So, yeah, so can you, can you tell me how this kind
of has evolved into today fromyour perspective?
Like?
What are modern people likeyourself taking from this
ancient religion?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
the good side is taking um from the well.
No, because there is a religionfor it.
I'm not a part of it, butthey're taking.
They're taking the word heathenback, since that was used as a
derogatory term for, obviously,people who weren't of the

(09:11):
monotheistic religions.
They're taking that back.
They're more into instinctual,habitual, feeling your needs and
going more of a natural weightrate, not weight um, instead of

(09:31):
always having to go with thesocietal structure of what
others want right it's just kindof like learn to be yourself
and do what's best for you.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
And how do the gods play into that, if at all?

Speaker 2 (09:47):
It depends because, just like any other deity, they
all have different roles.
Just from my perspective, Iknow there's a big argument that
goes on a lot of the time forspecifically Fenrir.
He's not really a god.
I guess he'd be considered ademigod of all things, but

(10:09):
because of those stories fromthe scholar, it's more like he's
supposed to be the villain ofthe story.
But in all actuality it wasliterally Odin who made a
decision, but it only came to bebecause he treated Fenrir that
way.
So Fenrir just did the naturalinstinct of just going out and

(10:30):
maybe he got a little angry anddid more than he should have.
But, um, I think for mepersonally, I didn't work work
with Fenrir.
I didn't ask him to come to me,I didn't didn't ask him to come
to me, I didn't ask to work withhim, but it was more like he

(10:50):
was just there when I was very,very angry and so with his help,
I actually ended up learninghow to express my anger better
and to try to get it undercontrol a bit more, where it was
like negative emotions are okayif people treat you badly.
Uh, freya, she's usually onlyknown for, I think it's what,

(11:14):
what's the major one?
It's just like sex and love.
She's actually like way morethan that.
Uh, she's also known for warand everything else.
When I specifically worked withher obviously I'm not going to
war, um, I didn't really needhelp in any other areas except
love can be many things right.
So she helped me learn to selflove, like just love myself in

(11:34):
general, and then really comeinto using my femininity more
and be more robust about it, bea little bit more aggressive and
just be like no, this is what Iwant, and set boundaries so I
have two questions, but I won'tgive you a double barreled

(11:55):
question.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
The first question can you tell us you you explain
a little bit more about Freyaand the things that she
represents?
But who's Fenrir?
I know who.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
So Fenrir is actually one of Loki's sons.
He's actually the giant wolfthat ends up causing Ragnarok.
So he is the end of the worldand his story.
To sum it up as much aspossible, it's just like loki
kind of liked to go around andhave fun with things that he

(12:31):
probably shouldn't.
So he gave birth.
Well, he ended up having adaughter who ends up being hell.
So she's half living, half dead, takes care of the underworld.
Then he had the word that'sreally hard for me to pronounce.
It's the world snake that oneescapes, goes into the sea.
Fenrir is the last one left.
He's just like a little tinywolf pup at this point.

(12:52):
So then the god tear, um, hecomes in.
He was just like I'll take careof him.
So they actually become bestfriends.
They go to war with him, theyfight battles.
Finruir just starts gettingbigger and bigger because he's
part god, not just a regularanimal.
So he apparently becomes as bigas a mountain and Odin starts

(13:18):
to see this, starts to worryabout it, because they've seen
him on the battle.
He's really fierce.
So some stories say he actuallywent and talked to Sears.
Some say that he saw it himselfwhere it was, just like Fenrir
was going to be too much tocontrol and so he didn't trust
him.
So they had to put him away andthey couldn't kill him, because

(13:40):
then I think that would breakthe contract that Loki had with
them.
I don't know, because then Ithink that would break, like,
the contract that Loki had withthem.
I don't know, but either way,they start the gods start trying
to trick Fenrir and they'rejust like oh well, you can't
break this chain and you can'tbreak this other chain that they
try to put on him, and hebreaks everything.
So they go to the dwarves, askthem for help and so, with like

(14:03):
very specific and hard to getingredients, they create a chain
that's super thin actually, andthey're just like ask him to
wear this, okay.
So they asked for him wherethey're like we got you another
task, can you break it?
And he was just saying I don'tknow, this seems weird, that
looks puny, like why would I tryto break that?
They're like come on, you cando it.

(14:24):
If it's so puny, you can justdo it.
But he feels like something'soff and he's just like no, I
don't want to do that.
And they're talking.
They're talking, but his bestfriend Tyr comes up and he's
just like, look, we'll go aheadand we'll put this on you.
And then, like it'll be fine.
And Finrir is just like, I'llput it on, if you put your hand

(14:48):
in my mouth and if I get screwed, then I'm just gonna bite it
off.
And so, yep, he tries to breakthe chain.
He cannot, he can't get out ofit, ends up biting Tyr's hand
off.
So Tyr is now a one-handed God.
They grab him, throw him in acave and just leave him there.
They put a sword in his mouth,specifically to make sure that

(15:09):
his jaws open the entire time,and to where it's, stabbing him
at the roof of his mouth.
And they say, like a river thatcomes from that cave is like
the drool that came out ofFenrir.
That's what caused it.
But eventually, like he wentmad and he broke free and then
started war with all the godsand killed Odin himself.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
So yeah, so has this already happened in the
mythology or is?

Speaker 2 (15:34):
yeah, it's very hard for me to try to figure out like
an actual timeline to where I'mjust like, well, if they're
dead, like how does this workout, like how am I still able to
contact?
And I think that's where itmight be just iffy for that,
because it's just like it isjust stories.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
So I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I think that's true for a lot of the pantheons that
we know about from the ancientworld.
Where the religion that theypracticed was completely
separate from the mythologies,and the mythologies were more
like an entertainment basedaround their belief system.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
So we'll have to unpack that.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, because some of the gods actually survived, but
I mean Odin died.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
But there's a lot of people that still deal with Odin
, so yeah, so would you say thatthe story of Fenrir is your
favorite story from themythology?

Speaker 2 (16:30):
I think so.
I think it's one of thosethings that just like see, I
don't think Fenrir would haveever become like that, or been
their demise, if they hadn'tjust done it the way they did.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
I think it's very on-brand for you.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
I was like that's why I have them tattooed on my arm
if they hadn't just done it theway they did.
Well, I think it's very onbrand for you.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
I was like that's why I have them tattooed on my arm.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, and I know our listeners don't know this but
Brittany is obsessed with wolves, so I like them.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Okay, so my second question that I have not
forgotten is you said work witha lot, and personally I've been
in spaces with alternativespiritual practices, so I know
what that means.
But for the sake of ourlisteners, what does work with
like when you say you're workingwith a deity?
What does that mean for you andwhat does it look like?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
So with Fenrir it was actually really surprising.
His was just company um freya,uh, she was willing to help, it
wasn't hard.
But at the same time I feltthat was more of a 50 50
exchange, which is why I still,like, gave offerings to her
whenever I could and likesometimes would explain those

(17:45):
offerings so she understood whatit meant.
And that's about it.
Where it was just like it's a50 50 exchange, she's teaching
me a lesson.
Those lessons would be learnedeither with the universe being
how great the universe is, orsometimes she came out in tarot
a lot.
I don't know why, butspecifically the chariot card.

(18:07):
Every single time I wonder ifit's because she actually does
write in a chariot, but she wasalways the chariot.
Um, bees, a lot of bees too.
But yeah, I don't know.
It was just like lessons thatwere learned.
I would ask, and then somehowbe enlightened with the

(18:27):
information, whether it be likeduring my own meditation, or
maybe it was just like a lessonI learned the very next day.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
So what I'm hearing is that when you say working
with, it's talking about kind ofthe personal supernatural
relationship that you have witha higher being yes okay, when
you were telling your storyabout Fenrir, you mentioned
dwarves oh yes do you believe indwarves?

Speaker 2 (18:58):
um, I can't really say that I can or can't.
I mean I can't disprove them,but at the same time, like I
can't accept that that's a realthing either.
So I wonder, because usuallyactually the Norse gods weren't
even actually known, I think, tothe scholar as gods, they're

(19:20):
actually giants.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
There's multiple giants throughout the whole
thing, so that's why it's it's abig mess he tried his hardest,
though yeah, so we're gonna haveto look for some ancient
writings from the norse thathave yet to be uncovered.
Yeah, can you tell me kind ofthe codes of conduct for

(19:48):
practicing either witchcraft orunder the norse faith and what
that means for you, like therespect, the protocol, whatever
it means?
Like how do you enter into thisspace?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I feel like the it's always research, always, always
research, no matter like whatdeity you're going for, because
some of them I don't think um,because they actually didn't
work together.
Um, but fenrir and fred, Idon't think they would have
actually gotten along um,personally, because one was
completely brutal, raw, intenseanger, and then the other one

(20:28):
was more about like controlled,like you can still have a temper
, but control so, but I neverworked with them at the same
time if that makes sense.
So, but yes, research, and thenI don't know.
But yes, research, and then Idon't know.
I feel like just respect isjust normal Treat.

(20:52):
Everybody like you would wantto be treated.
Listen, do not copy people'sstuff Because it might work for
them but it doesn't mean it'sgonna work for you.
So always do the researchbehind.
Okay, why did they use this,this and that?
But like, don't use somebodyelse's sigil, don't do that.

(21:12):
Right.
You have to come up with yourown, because it might not work
for you.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Can you tell me more about the runic sigils Runes?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I was like I've actually been trying really,
really hard to get into runes.
I don't have that greatestskill set with it, like at all.
I'm just not very good with itand I think maybe I just need to
find the rune set that's for me, because I only have this like
cheap, like Lothis Lazuli runeset that I got.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
And what about when you do you use runes to make
your sigils?

Speaker 2 (21:49):
No, because, honestly , I'm open to working with any
pantheon when it comes todeities and right now, even
though I feel connected withNorse pantheon, I feel like that
I don't want to just stick toit, because I feel like I could
also learn other lessons fromothers that I won't be able to

(22:09):
learn from them.
So but I never mixed that.
It was always my own concoctionof stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
And what is a sigil and what is it for?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
So it is a well.
I don't know if you want tocall it marking, but it's.
You can put multiple letters ornumbers together, depending on
what you're trying to do.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Let's say graphical representation.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
So I don't know.
For me it was always writingdown like a sentence, and then
you have to try your hardest tomake that sentence into just two
or one words.
So it's direct mm-hmm and thenfrom there you have to put the
letters into a certain way, towhere it comes up with a shape
that obviously you like, youdon't want it to look horrible,

(22:56):
horrible.
Take out all the double lettersI believe it is too and then
from there you cleanse it, andthen you have to Not energize.
Energize is not the Activate.
Activate.
Yes, I was like energize is notthe right thing, but you have

(23:18):
to activate the sigil, give itthe energy that it does need in
order to work, and then youplace it wherever you need it
and so they're kind of like youcan use it for protection, I use
it for money and it actuallyworked pretty well nice that was
crazy.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I mean you don't get rich off of it, but I got a lot
of tips working at dk for noreason yeah, so it was nice okay
, I think I'm gonna come back tothat got it so we've talked a
little bit about what you calledthe positive side, and I know I

(23:59):
know you know where this isgoing.
I know that there are peoplewho use the Norse pantheon to
promote like white supremacy,yes, and anti-miscegenation and
racism, yes, and I know you.
So I know that that's not whatyou're about, but can you speak?
I know you don't know the insand outs because you don't

(24:23):
practice in that way, but howdid it feel when you learned
about that?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I'm actually really mad, because I think everyone's
trying to find their own likespiritual part and they all kind
of want to just wish it'srainbows and butterflies, and
then you find out that it'starnished in some way.
So that kind of was not fun tofind out that it's tarnished in
some way, so that kind of wasnot fun.

(24:48):
To find out where it was justlike.
Oh so now we have likeneo-nazis in our midst, uh,
saying that only white peoplecan practice it, and that's
definitely not how it was like.
Even when the Norse used totake in slaves, they could
actually pretty much become oneof them if they wanted to.

(25:10):
They just had to provethemselves and that was it we're
also not promoting slavery.
No no, no, I'm sorry, no that'sokay.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
So we've touched on a lot of things here.
We've briefly touched onpractices, your favorite story,
how the relationship kind ofworks as a framework for you.
Can you tell me how all ofthese things make you feel when
you're practicing or engaging inthat space?

Speaker 2 (25:48):
I think I feel comfortable and for some strange
reason I'm able to concentratea little bit harder, at least if
I'm by myself trying to get itall done.
I seem to get messages indifferent ways.
When I need it, they know howto contact me.

(26:09):
I feel good.
I was like, yeah, sorry.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Not.
You have my number deities Justlike they know where I live.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's fine.
But yeah, I don't know.
I feel comforted, I feel waymore strong, I feel empowered.
I think that's why I likedwitchcraft so much.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Nice, thank you.
Can you tell me how you foundthis belief system and what drew
you into it?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
So originally I was Christian.
I was actually raised baptist.
I was baptized three times, onewhen I was a baby and then two
when I was like I don't know 12,and then 13.
Those two I chose, um, and thenI started to kind of question a

(27:03):
lot of things in my teenageyears and I think that's what
opened it up.
Uh, I had a friend whose momwas Wiccan and she lent me a
book and I read it, but I didn'tpersonally, uh, follow through
with it because I didn't likethe roles that they had the men
playing as, and to me that stillread too much like Christianity

(27:25):
at the time, like I wantedeveryone to just be equal, um,
but it was still made me really,really curious.
And then as kids I don't Ithink all kids do it, maybe they
don't, but like we used to makelike little potions in the
backyard- and like have likelittle spells, cause we saw it
on the movies, we thought it wascool, um, but it wasn't until I

(27:49):
got the chance.
Uh, I found an internet forumand from there, uh, they talked
a lot about everything and I waslike, oh, this is cool, it's
just witchcraft.
And I was like I could be achristian witch and it's like
that's what's gonna happen.
God won't be mad at me if I'm achristian witch, like.
So that's what I did for alittle bit until I was just like

(28:11):
, look, I'm gonna be honest andI just I never had that
connection with god or jesus,like whatever they said that
they could feel within it.
I always felt outcasted becauseI couldn't and you can't really
ask somebody.
Well, how does that feel?
Because then you feel likethey're going to ask you like
how come?
You don't know.

(28:32):
I just I don't.
I don't know what that feelslike.
Now, dealing with like Freyaand Fenrir and a couple other,
just random mishaps, I feltthings, and I think that's what
scared me the most was was howcome I could feel that but then
couldn't feel what was going onor what I was supposed to be

(28:54):
feeling with God and Jesus.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
So I don't know.
I just stopped it.
I stopped lying to myself.
I was like I'm not Christian, Idon't even.
I haven't even gone to churchin years.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
So and can you describe that feeling that
you're talking about and maybean example of one of the times
that you felt it?

Speaker 2 (29:12):
So it feels closeness , definitely Like there's a
connection somehow to whoeveryou're dealing with.
I think you would randomly getdifferent things from different
deities, like with Fenrir, itwas always it was warm.
I don't really know how toexplain that, but it was just it

(29:32):
was warm.
With Freya, it was always likeI knew she was there, but it was
more of a comforting feeling.
And then flowers I can't reallyjust flowers, and so it was
almost like spring has blossomed, like a nice little spring
breeze, um.
And then someone else I don'teven I don't know who they were

(29:53):
um, I'm sure it had something todo with the moon, I just don't
know who she was.
She like you could still feelthe connection, but it was cold
right like cold.
Um, other than that, I think it.
When people talk about, whenthey deal with god or jesus,
that connection they're talkingabout.
That's the only thing that Ican see and feel is because that

(30:16):
is what I have felt with all ofthem.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So so have you had anything crazy happen to you?
Yes, a little too much what'sone really powerful experience
that you've had um, so I thinkit was when I first found

(30:42):
witchcraft.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
It was more of a dream, but I think that's what
opened everything up.
Because of that Because when Idream they're not special I
can't remember them.
Half the time I don't know.
Half the time I don't evendream.
So I just know.
When I started researchingeverything, I lived in Alabama

(31:06):
at the time and I just had thisdream and all it was was just
this lady.
I just remember her skin beingsuper pale.
I couldn't see her eyes, Icould only see her mouth.
She had long black hair.
Um, she had long black hair andshe just told me to like burn

(31:27):
this, this thing that I had inhigh school.
It was like a creative writingthing that we had for English in
freshman year and I think itstill held negative, like
thoughts from back then.
So at first I didn't reallyunderstand it.
I still have no idea who thislady was.

(31:49):
Like.
I didn't feel in danger,nothing like that, it was just
weird.
And then the next night I justwent out and did like a little
fire pit, got some rose buds andburned it, and I think that's
when it was just like okay, cool, freedom, I don't know,
negativity gone whatever.

(32:09):
Um, I think what was crazy iswhen you find out that when you
ask the universe for things andyou actually practice something,
it can work.
And then it does and you'relike, oh, and you start freaking

(32:31):
out a little bit because you'relike, oh, I can do stuff.
And I think that kind of hithard a little bit for me,
because it was kind of like, oh,I can do stuff, and instead of
being like super, super excited,I was like with great power
comes great responsibility, andI got worried because I was like
I don't want to do anything bad.
So we asked LJ's grandma to getbetter quickly because she had

(32:56):
went into the hospital and atthe time, if that happened and
the rest of his other familycame out, then they would say
that his dad wasn't taking verygood care of his grandmother and
we could lose our place, hecould lose his place, all that
other stuff.
So that's all I did and Iactually asked LJ to help me
with that.

(33:16):
So all I asked was that I coulduse his energy to help do that
she was out the next day, thevery next day, and I was just
like even he was just shockedand I was like I knew she would
get out, but I thought it'd belike three days, not the next

(33:37):
day.
So it's interesting yeah, it'sdefinitely or like you think, oh
well, if I can do this, I canmake like a money spell.
One time I made this drinkpurely specifically so I could
play the power ball that night,because I knew it was going to
draw.
I knew someone was going to winand I wanted it to be me.

(33:57):
Um, I worked so hard and put somuch intention into this drink.
Just this tea sloshed it alldown before the drawing ever
came.
Did I win?
No, but the universe was justlike here's seven dollars nice
thanks.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
You could have had seven billion, but they said
seven's enough.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I was like, at least I got something, but I'll never
put that much effort into thisever again.
So it has its ways.
Obviously, you're going to havewhat's coming to you.
Right.
I feel like it's more of aspeeding up process, but it's
also like a healing journey aswell.
It's fun.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Well, thank you for sharing all of that.
Sorry, that's okay, that's whatwe're here for.
Can you share a little bitabout your religious and
spiritual history?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yes, so before, like I had said, I grew up Baptist.
My mom wasn't.
She split between Christianityand Catholicism, but I think it

(35:16):
was like an intertwining.
So she still believed in thebible, still believed in like
the whole ten commandments andeverything, but instead of it
just being like god and jesus,she also truly believed in
certain, certain saints.
I wouldn't be able to name themother than Mary.
I know she would use Mary a lot, but she wasn't an avid

(35:38):
churchgoer or anything.
My dad was more of the let'salways go to church type.
I went to a daycare thatspecifically evolved around
Christianity, a daycare thatspecifically evolved around
Christianity.
So at the great age of like Idon't know five or six, I knew

(36:01):
most of the books by heart ofthe Bible.
Then it was my grandma who tookus to church for a while, but it
didn't really seem like I wantto say that anyone other than my
dad was very set in being likea devout christian um, so that's

(36:24):
just what I identified with forlike the longest time.
Um, I didn't really have anissue with people, but I think I
had an awkward conversation onetime before I found witchcraft.
Um, I didn't know much aboutCatholicism, even though it's

(36:54):
like prominent here in El Pasobut you always hear the same
jargon in the Christian churcheswhere it's like, oh well, they
worship saints and they're notsupposed to because they put
them before God or somethinglike that.
And I had met someone when Iwas with one of my boyfriends,
like in North Carolina, and shewas talking about her faith and
I was just like so how does thatwork when you talk to multiple
saints?
I mean, how can you still saythat you're devout to your faith

(37:17):
if you're putting them beforeGod?
And she had to explain to methat wasn't the case at all,
that they are actually there tohelp, also with multiple lessons
and multiple needs, but theywere never once, ever before God
or Jesus.
So that was fun.

(37:37):
I went from that and then foundwitchcraft.
Was uncomfortable with tryingwitchcraft because you're always
told that it's wrong, youshouldn't be doing it, god will
hate you for it, you'll go tohell, all that great stuff, um.
So I was like, oh well, godloves me, that he's not going to

(37:58):
send me to hell, right, so Ican still do stuff in his name.
It'll just be witchcraft.
Like that's when I found out,oh, there is such thing as
christian witches.
Then I got confused because Istill didn't know how witchcraft
worked and was kind of goingoff of like the wiccan thing
where you have a male deity andthen a female.
And then I had this theory that, like, all of the gods

(38:23):
specifically came from this maleor female, they were just
different versions of them.
And then that's when I realizedwitchcraft was definitely more
of go with the flow and you willfind your own tuning.
And I was like, okay, and hereI am no longer a Christian
looking at everything I can so Iknow, at some point in your

(38:48):
life your dad became a preacher.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yes, how old were you when that happened?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
I was like a young adult I can't even pinpoint if
somewhere in my 20s where healways, always talked about
possibly doing that, um, andthen one day he just did.
He went and got his doctorate'sdegree.
I believe it's just like anonline school doctor of divinity

(39:13):
yeah so, and he became hedoesn't have like a following or
anything like that.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So but what did that feel like for you and how did it
shape your faith?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
it's hard because there's always been a issue with
me and my dad's relationshipand I will never understand how
in Christianity someone canpreach so much about a fatherly
love or just love in general, um, be kind to thy neighbor, all

(39:46):
that stuff but then completely,just blatantly like, throw the
lgbtq plus community out thewindow.
Um, he's very old school, oldtestament about all of it, just
black and white kind of.
But then you hear where heforgives people who've done like

(40:10):
horrible, horrible things,faster than he'll forgive
someone or even get to knowsomeone for just having a
different preference.
Right.
So it's difficult.
It took me like five yearsafter practicing witchcraft to
actually come out to him andtell them that, hey, I'm pagan,

(40:31):
I practice witchcraft.
And he's like okay, I stilllove you.
You know, kind of maybe in away.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Interesting.
So I also know that when youwere growing up, your mom had a
lot of health complications.
Yes, so during that time youwere still Christian.
How do you think yourchristianity helped you cope
with or deal with that situation?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
bad.
Um, I always felt like godcouldn't hear me like,
especially when I started havingmy own problems when I was like
a younger teenager.
It just seemed like he wasnever there, never listening,
but I still kept on.
I don't even know why, but Idid.

(41:20):
And one day me and my momdidn't even have a strong
relationship, but she said shehad cancer and it kind of broke
me because I felt really guiltyfor the longest time because we
had such a bad relationship.
There was points and times whenI was younger that I had wished

(41:43):
ill upon her pretty hard and Iwas like please don't let her
come home like I'm.
I can't do this anymore.
I was just, I was a kid yeah,yeah, angsty teenage drama.
Yeah, I was like it's more likeneglect and abuse, but you know,
whatever.
But yeah, so I thought thatthose bad thoughts had actually

(42:05):
come to fruition and she hadprobably gotten cancer because
of me, or at least it bloomed tothat point.
And I felt horrible because itwas just like, wow, um, thanks,
but this is not what I wasasking for like at all, and uh,

(42:26):
I don't know.
I just I felt really, really,really guilty.
I didn't think I was going tohell or anything, because it's
just like, well, why would goddo it for me if he was just
gonna send me to hell anyways?
But, um, I still felt likereally, really guilty where it
was just like.
I feel like maybe god wastrying to teach me a lesson in
that moment and how do you thinkyour mental health was during

(42:49):
that revelation?
that I had horrible um anxietyand depression for 15, almost 20
years, so it was never reallygood.
Yeah, it was always there and,uh, I just don't think in that

(43:10):
moment christianity was going tohelp me at any point in time.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Right, so then you moved into witchcraft.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
And when we were talking about how you felt
during your earlier experiences,you said you felt empowered.
Yes, so do you think that thiswas maybe the first point in
your life where you actuallyfound a belief system that was
improving your mental health?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Definitely.
Um, I felt like I actually hadcontrol of something Kind of.
It was more like I could askfor something and it would
happen.
Mm-hmm.
Um, obviously To an extent, um,but it was like, wow, I can
actually do something andsomething will come from it.

(43:59):
And then it was even crazierwhen I actually started feeling
those connections where I waslike, oh my gosh, they'll,
they'll talk to you back, um,and it just felt different, like
I could actually make a change,and I think whoever was
listening at that point in timeI actually had like a bad, bad

(44:21):
fear of, like, the dark, since Iwas a kid, like almost
petrifying fear of the dark.
And, um, one day it was justgone, like after I started
practicing witchcraft, it wasjust gone, like after I started
practicing witchcraft, it wasjust gone, wow.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
And I've never had that problem since, so that's
yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
You embraced the dark days In a way.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I was like in a way so Christianity was challenging
for you.
That's yes.
Have you had any challenges?

Speaker 2 (45:02):
or struggles while participating as a witch.
Yes, um, I think everything hasits own I wouldn't necessarily
say bad side, but I think a lotof people know about like witch
talk when it comes to tiktok andthere's a lot of smoke and
mirrors like I'm seeing peopledo and try to show how they do
their spells, and it's likesomething so simple and they're

(45:22):
just doing like theatrics for itfor whatever reason, and or
they're just blatantly tellingpeople wrong information and you
see others copy it instead ofjust do the research.
That's all you had to do.
You have people who constantlyfight.
It's hard because everyone hastheir own variations of doing

(45:45):
spells, tarot and everythingelse, so no one will always be
the same.
But yeah, some of these peopleare a bit theatrical for sure.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Were you on Witch Talk during the time of the
whole Lemon Hex debacle.
What's your take on it?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
I don't see the point of it.
I think what they were tryingto do is actually steal a little
bit from either Voodoo orHoodoo and try to implement it
in a way that they didn'tunderstand.
What they were trying to do isactually steal a little bit from
either Voodoo or Hoodoo and tryto implement it in a way that

(46:23):
they didn't understand, and soit was just a trend that kept
going, and I was just like oryou could really get your hands
dirty and do other things, butyou don't have to use a lemon.
I mean, if you want to getcreative with stuff, can.
Just I didn't really see.
I don't think they would havegotten what they wanted.
I think they were trying tothrow out some really big hate
and anger towards whoeverthey're trying to deal it out

(46:43):
with, and I was like I don'tthink this is gonna work, like
I'm sorry, I just don't think soI'm gonna need to interview one
of the lemon hexers to see whattheir experience was all about
like did it work?
I'm just curious, like what wasyour intention behind it?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
so by challenges I was really thinking about like
personal struggles, right, so weframe this as the personal
struggle of like where do youfind information and how do you
do the research to be successfulin this?
How did you manage that?
Or, like, what were yoursources?

(47:22):
Or how did you know wheninformation wasn't vibing well
with what you're trying to do?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
so I think an example I can give of that is Freya.
So obviously I got out of areally bad relationship that I
was in for almost 10 years andfinally got my own little space,
thanks to one of the friends Ihad at the time.

(47:48):
And I don't know.
I was pretty broken.
I didn't know who I wassupposed to be anymore.
I didn't know what I wassupposed to do in the world.
I just didn't even know who Iwas in general.
I didn't know what I liked, um,so I figured well, I had
stopped practicing witchcraftfor like a while, so that

(48:09):
probably didn't help help.
Um, I was kind of dabbling in ithere and there, but I just
completely shut off at thatpoint.
But after I got out of therelationship I was like, well,
let's start with things that Iknow that I like.
Witchcraft is one of them, okay, so then it's just like, well,
let's start doing tarot.
But I felt like I wasn'tgetting a direction.

(48:30):
So then that's when I kind ofheard everyone talking about, um
, something about shadow, likeyour shadow self, shadow work,
yes, and um, I was like, okay,so let's start figuring some
stuff out.
Like, where, what can I startworking on myself to do to be

(48:53):
better, like this is what Icould probably do, and then
that's when Freya actually endedup getting involved and we
started really directing ittowards a lot more self-love,
setting boundaries Um, I'mtrying to think, just being your

(49:13):
own person and being okay withsaying no I think that's my
biggest struggle.
Like no is my favorite word andyet I wasn't using it.
Like at all, which makes nosense.
Um, yeah, that's, that was theclosest thing, but it took a lot
of trying to figure out.
Like you had to piece ittogether because it's like okay,

(49:34):
back to witchcraft, what do Ido with it?
There's so many things you cando.
You can read runes, you can dothis.
I didn't know anything aboutthe norse pantheon at the time.
Um, I knew that I had seen likea few things that piqued my
interest, but I never thought tolike reach out, because I never
really reached out to deitiesbefore and I was like, well, I

(49:55):
need help with these strugglesthat I'm having.
So let's pinpoint thesespecific struggles.
Did more research, found outlike, hey, well, ray of my help,
so she doesn't seem like a harddeity to work with.
Let's ask her and see.
And it just went from there towork with.

(50:16):
Let's ask her and see.
And it just went from therewhere mental health, physical
health, everything came back upminus me dying on the side but
it's okay.
Same word.
Yeah, um.
So I actually had healthproblems, like in hawaii.
It popped.
I would have this gripping painto where it would stop me from
walking, and it was weird.

(50:38):
And it only popped up like onceevery six months for a while.
Then I came back here to El Pasoand started working and when I
did that the pain startedbecoming more predominant.
It started getting closer.
So it went from once every sixmonths to like once every three.

(51:00):
Then it started happeningweekly and we get to the point
where I couldn't eat, I couldn'tsleep.
I would be going to the doctorsand telling them like, hey, um,
so I'm in pain a lot and Idon't know what to do.
I even went crying into the ERone time and they thought I was

(51:22):
having a heart attack.
I wasn't.
But uh, they would give me thisweird little mixture and they
would just be like oh, you havegastritis.
Got to the point where I wasonly eating cream of wheat for
breakfast and white rice atnight.
I lost so much weight.
I couldn't have coffee, I onlydrink water, I couldn't have

(51:42):
anything Until finally I gottired of it because now it was
affecting my sleep and Icouldn't fall asleep anymore.
So I went to a differentemergency room and that lady
made me so mad.
She was just like well, whatmakes you think they're going to
give you a different diagnosis?
And I was just like, becauseI've been listening to all the
doctors and nothing's changing.
Something's wrong, something isdefinitely wrong.

(52:05):
Yeah, they went and they did aCT scan and they found out that
my gallbladder was full ofgallstones.
Scan and they found out that mygallbladder was full of
gallstones.
It had been like that for two,almost three years, so it was
inflamed about three or fourtimes the size it's supposed to
be.
It could have rupturedamazingly, didn't.
But there was one specificstone that was like too big to

(52:27):
go through the tube, so it wasacting as like a flap, so it
would go down and then all of asudden I would have all those
problems and then go back upnormal.
So, yeah, they went in and theywere just like do you want it
gone?
I was like, yes, take it out ofme yeah, I actually still, to
this day, don't really know whathappened, and it's just my own

(52:50):
personal belief, which is whyI'm probably way too scared to
have um like a spirit, not aspirit animal, a familiar that's
what it is I'm too worried tohave a familiar now because
copper my dog was that for mewhen I had witchcraft and he

(53:11):
died of the same exact problem?
No way.
I never thought that that waswhat was wrong with me.
I didn't know that, yeah so now, even though my cat comes
around and does everything, I'mlike go away, I secretly, I just
I don't know why we both hadthe same thing, why we both had
so many gallstones, just likeour gallbladders were full to

(53:34):
the rim with stones.
I still don't know why, but Iknow he died first, and then
that's when my symptoms startedgetting way worse and I went and
finally like fought to thepoint that they were just like
oh okay, this is the problemwell, it could have been
environmental, but the fact thatthat's what I'm wondering too.
But then why wouldn't lj or?

(53:55):
The kids yeah at first Ithought, well, the jet fuel
contamination in hawaii, thatmakes sense.
But the cat tube nothing yeah Ijust find it weird and it makes
me a little paranoid.
So I'm just like no familiarsfor me.
Yeah.
I'm good, just in case.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
That's definitely a mysterious circumstance, but
these stories were the perfectsegue into our next segment.
Can you tell me how thisreligion or practice has

(54:35):
influenced your mental health?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
yes, um.
So I think I had a lot of a lotof well, I just had depression,
chronic depression.
For years I went to therapists.
I kind of rejected medicationbecause a lot of the time it

(55:00):
didn't help.
I think when I got into myearly 20s, that's when I finally
got like anxiety medication,and it was craziest experience
because I could feel like apanic attack was going to come
on.
Then all of a sudden it juststopped.
I was like, oh, this works,okay.
But I feel like when I got intothis, it helped me really

(55:22):
pinpoint all of the problemsthat I needed to focus on.
It made me dive down deep andthen everything that they had
taught me in therapy before Inow figured out how to utilize
it properly in order to fix theissues that needed fixing.
Um, is everything completelyokay?

(55:43):
No, but I feel like an actualfunctioning human being now and
I don't have any depressivethoughts.
My depression is pretty muchgone.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Um, I get unmotivated , but I think it's, it's helped
a lot so do you think it wouldbe safe to say witchcraft gave
you a framework for how toactually use the tools that you
were given in therapy yes,because it's still 50 50 where

(56:16):
it's like you could ask theuniverse or whoever you talk to
or anything, but it's not justgoing to give it to you.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It's a 50 50 exchange you have to put in the work and
they will help with whateveryou cannot handle.
So it definitely gave me thetools, the knowledge, the backup
, everything to just put it alltogether and change my entire
mental state that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
So when I say the word well-being, what does that
mean for you?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
well-being, I think, encompasses a whole, so that
would be like mental, physical.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
I think spiritual should be thrown in there glad
you think that it is on thisinterview guide yes what does
spiritual health mean for you?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
spiritual health.
I think, if you have themotivation, um is definitely
being one with whatever you'retrying to do, um, I don't think
you have to necessarily practiceit every day, or even if you do
, it doesn't have to be huge,like you don't have to walk into
a church every single day.

(57:35):
But even if you just sit there,think, pray, appreciate, then
it should all fall through andthat's what spiritual well-being
would be being at peace.
I like that.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
But, it's still separate from mental well-being.
So mental can go, I think, inthe same hand.
But that's where spiritual canhelp you get those tools to help
with your mental state Right,to calm you, to feel like you're
already with something thatyou've connected to, that you're
used to, and it'll help youkind of weed out all the

(58:20):
negativity right so I've askedthis question in different ways
throughout this wholeconversation.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
But a little bit more directly when you're actively
participating in this practice,so when you're talking with the
deities that you're working with, when you're maybe praying,
when you're doing a ritual ormaking a sigil, whatever it is
that you're doing, how do youfeel?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
I feel on top of my game.
I feel great.
I feel like nothing can standin my way at that point, Like I
get so much encouragement andjust I don't know, all of a
sudden I'm just like don't getin my way, or else you're going
to be a problem and that's,that's all it is.

(59:12):
Like my entire attitude shiftsand I love it.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Would you say empowered again?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Nice.
Is there anything in particularthat you've taken from this
practice that helps you mentallyor emotionally?
So one maybe core practice thatyou do within witchcraft that
really makes you feel the bestnot necessarily because there's

(59:45):
so much that you can do inwitchcraft.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
I don't do tarot like everybody else can.
I don't know like thetraditional way of doing it.
Um, I've just had to read thebest way that I could.
Um, and amazingly it works forme.
Um, I've done divination, didthe whole, like potions,

(01:00:08):
tinkertures, all of it's fun.
So I guess just being hands-onwith everything is what makes me
comfortable with it and makesme calm and at peace, and I
think the only lesson that I'vereally, I guess, kind of learned
specifically from witchcraft isthere is no more black and
white, everything's greatalright, so can you pick one of

(01:00:36):
those practices that you said,so we can dissect it a little
bit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Tell me which one you're gonna choose and then
tell me the rules behind it andthen like the steps, the
procedures that you would taketo do it that is so hard.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
I'm like jeez.
Like the steps, the proceduresthat you would take to do it.
That is so hard, I'm like geez.
I guess the one that I likedthe most was when we were at
Raven's where it was, you showedme the I still have it too,
where it's the mirror and it'slike is it divination?

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Is it considered divination?
The scrying, the scrying, yeah,we're digging into my past.
Now, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Oh, scrying.
But where you have the waterand I tried multiple things it
was kind of hard to make the tealights float, so I had to get
candles that were a little bitthicker that could actually stay
but not completely float at thetop and I think from there was
almost going into a deepermeditation, because I've tried

(01:01:38):
regular meditation.
I cannot quiet my mind likethat.
Um, I think one time I reachedout to you when I first was
trying to learn it and I gotdizzy and kind of like fell out.
It was weird.
Um, I've just never been goodat it.
I've tried, but scrying forsome strange reason can put me
into that state of just beingquiet, listening and paying

(01:02:04):
attention to what I need to knowat that point, or even if it's
just like there's nothing for meto get, just quiet.
It's the only time that'sworked for me all right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
so let me explain a little bit.
A long time ago, in a differentlife of mine, I made a scrying
bowl, which is scrying is a formof divination through looking
at something.
Generally, it's a reflectivesurface of some kind, so water

(01:02:36):
mirrors things of that sort, butit can also be sky, it can be
fire, it can be smoke fromincense whatever it is that you
really feel called to do.
So I made a scrying bowl that Ilater gifted to Brittany when I
started my new life, and thescrying bowl is a black bowl

(01:03:00):
with a net around it andseashells.
It's actually very beautiful.
It might look a little creepyto some people, but I like it.
So inside the black bowl is amirror and normally when I would
use it I would put some kind ofoil in the water, because the
oil moves around and makesshapes, since oil and water

(01:03:21):
don't mix.
And then you float a candleDon't put a majorly flammable
oil in the water, by the way andyou float a candle and you
never look at the candle flamedirectly because safety first
and you don't want to hurt youreyes, but you kind of glance
into the bowl and you let thefire flicker and cast different

(01:03:43):
shapes and shadows through theoil and the water and then it
puts you into a meditative ortrance state, which is what
Brittany's talking about.
So when you use the bowl, nowthat you have it, how do you
feel when you use it?

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
I like it because, like I said, it quiets my mind.
So I have like ADHD and anxiety, so there's always something
going on in my mind 24 7.
With the bowl I can actuallyquiet everything and just be in
that trance.
I don't think I've everdirectly gotten a message from

(01:04:23):
it that I can recall, but thatis the best form of meditation
that's ever put me in a calmstate.
And I'll throw on some likenorse music in the background
and it just puts me in a goodmood.
So usually I'll do that andthen whatever spell work I'm
going to do after, because thatmakes everything calm nice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
So how would you say that this kind of deeper state
facilitated by the bowl impactsyour mental health, like your
overall mental health, not justin the moment?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
it helps because, yeah, in the moment it quiets
everything down, but sometimesyou need that break you just
need that quietness.
You need the calm to come everyonce in a while, or else you're
just gonna burn out and just bedeeply tired.
So because of that type ofmeditation I'm able to be, I

(01:05:21):
guess, in a way more rested andthen more energized afterwards.
Putting my energy towardssomething else helps me focus a
little bit too mm-hmm and wouldyou say that there are any
physical health benefits fromthis practice?
Actually, yes, if you can gomore towards like just the

(01:05:42):
herbal side, so you can learnwhat different herbs do, then
you start to learn that you canalso incorporate it into your
food, and so not only can youhave intention into your food,
but you learn healthier eating.
You have more of a want to giveback also to mother nature,
take care of the earth, kind ofgrow your own things as well.

(01:06:03):
So, and then learningmeditation, which everyone talks
about so much.
Amongst witchcraft, you canfind your own type of meditation
you're.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
It's definitely going to help you health-wise yeah,
and a little disclaimer herewitchcraft meditation is very
beneficial for the people whouse it, but it's also very
different from buddhistmeditation.
So for people listening,buddhist meditation is more
about tranquility, calming themind, thought control.

(01:06:38):
It's very yeah, I was like Isucked at it it's very
ego-centered, and I don't meanego like you're egotistical but
yeah, ego like of the self yes,it's very self-focused, unless
you're doing things like metameditation, that's M-E-T-T-A not
meta like the metaverse, butit's still very individual.

(01:07:04):
From my experience, and maybeyou can speak a little bit to
this, the witchcraft meditationsare a little bit more
transcendental.
They're a little bit moregeared towards connection with
something divine, connectionwith the world around you.
There's a lot of visualizationinvolved, a lot of music
involved.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
I do agree there's different ways that you can do
it.
I think when you do do just theregular meditation, it almost
starts off because you have toground yourself.
That's the most important thing.
You're supposed to groundyourself, align all the chakras
and then do whatever you'resupposed to do after you quiet
your mind.
So I think in the beginning itstarts off that way but then

(01:07:46):
goes towards whatever directionthey're supposed to be working
on.
So that is correct, towardswhatever direction they're
supposed to be working on them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
So that is correct.
So how do you feel that thispractice?

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
contributes to your spiritual health.
I think, overall, just not onlydid it help me heal myself, but
it also gave me a more positiveoutlook on the world.
I cared more about nature.
Um, I cared more about what mywords did to people and, like,

(01:08:27):
overall, it made me a betterhuman being, I think nice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
So if you could wrap all of these kind of domains up
into one thing, how would yousay that this practice
contributes to your overallwell-being?

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
overall it helps me put everything into perspective
and helps, I guess, just indifferent ways.
But you kind of have to haveall three like you can't sit
there and just be like, well, Iwant, I want, I want.
You also have to put in thehard work for it, because the

(01:09:05):
whole shadow work process wasnot, it's not fun.
Um, it's really, really hard tohear like all the negative
things about yourself and thenhave to retrain all of those
things to make it work.
But overall I think it wouldbenefit a lot of people, even if
they didn't take it on as afull practice, like even if they

(01:09:29):
just took the tools, tried itand was just like, oh yeah is
there any specific advice thatyou might have for anyone who's
interested in starting apractice like this?
all research, it's alwaysresearch, and don't sit there
and say like, oh, this lookseasy, no, okay.

(01:09:49):
So first it's research, thenit's protection.
Only those two things.
Do those two things first,always multiple times, and then
eventually you'll find your ownway.
There's so many different paths, but you'll never stop
researching.
I think that's the funnest partfor me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
So get ready to read.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yes, Read, read.
So get ready to read, yes, read.
Do not hear everything online.
Take it with a grain of salt,oh, and go with the flow.
Don't let anyone tell you thatsomething, just because it
doesn't work for them, that itwouldn't work for you.
Like some things might work.
Like that lemon thing mighthave worked for one person,
right?
We don't know, we don't know,we don't know, we don't know, we

(01:10:32):
don't know, we'll find out, ifyou have a lemon story.
Please reach out through thelink in the show notes A lemon
with nails.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
So I've also asked you this question here and there
throughout but, I also justwant to give you one more
opportunity to answer.
Have you ever had a spiritualexperience that felt
extraordinary, miraculous orunexplainable?

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
Yes, I've had too many, actually, ever since I was
a kid I did.
I remember seeing one thing, Ithink, when I was a a kid, and
it made no sense to me at thetime I was a child.
It was like a, a skeleton, andall of a sudden started just

(01:11:19):
doing a dance.
I was fully awake, I was onlylike four, and it just randomly
came to my doorstep.
I started crying because it's askeleton, and then it started
to dance.
So I think it was trying to getme to not cry, but I called my
mom.
It went away, but seeing thingskind of stopped other than like
random shadows here and there,and then always being able to

(01:11:44):
hear stuff, though likefootsteps.
So that was interesting, wasinteresting.
I think one of the ones was inAlabama, actually when I had
already started discoveringwitchcraft, by the way, um, I'm

(01:12:05):
just gonna throw this out here.
So stuff will start to happento you when you practice
witchcraft, however.
That's why protection is thelike number one thing and to be
very, very on your protectiongame 24, 7, that doesn't
automatically mean like all thisstuff is happening because
you're practicing witchcraft ina bad way.

(01:12:28):
Um, but I remember I was really,really tired from work.
I was about to fall asleep andI remember in like my mind's eye
seeing this like beautiful,freaking woman, like she had the
perfect lips, she had silky,like really long hair, like

(01:12:50):
everything on her seemed perfectin some weird way.
And I'm just thinking, I'mtrying to fall asleep so it's
whatever, and then all of asudden in my mind it was just
like she's dead and it was justlike what?
And then it went from like thisbeautiful girl, like laying
next to me on the bed, to likefading in and out, to like

(01:13:14):
showing an actual skeleton, tojust regular looks like
beautiful person, dead person,and that's it.
Um, I ended up falling asleepand in this dream um, some, I I

(01:13:38):
shouldn't have picked this story.
Um, I got some really lewdfeelings we can put an explicit
label, okay, I was.
Well, I was really horny and Iwas trying to get my rocks off
pretty much, and it went fromjust being normal horny to all

(01:14:01):
of a sudden having this deep andguttural urge to really really
just like I don't know, have myworld rocked in some weird way.
Mm-hmm.
And then it went from that tome being able to contort my body
into ways that shouldn't behappening in order for me to try

(01:14:23):
to reach this orgasm.
That's pretty much non-existent.
Right.
But I'm trying to get it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
And this is all in the dream.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Yeah, I'm trying to get it.
Um, and this is all in thedream, yeah, and so I I didn't
understand, like, what wasreally happening.
All I know is, all of a suddenin my dream, emma emma came out.
She's my daughter, she's onlylike three at the time.
She came out of the room and,out of nowhere, like this thing,

(01:14:52):
this lady comes out of the wall.
She doesn't really look likethe lady I think, necessarily
that was laying next to me, butshe comes out of the wall and
tries to take my kid.
Out of nowhere I'm able to stopeverything that I'm doing even
though I wasn't able to beforeand I knew it was like not
supposed to be happening thatway and, uh, take my kid back,

(01:15:22):
pretty much, uh, wake up and uh,I was just like, well, that's,
that's really weird.
I didn't know anything aboutsuccubuses at the time, but I
felt usually, if I have dreamslike that, there's questions I
need to ask, because I justdon't have dreams like that, I
just don't.
So that's when I found out, ohwell, actually succubi like to
take children and all this otherstuff, and I was like, wow, how
that aligns, that's weird yeah.

(01:15:42):
I didn't really think much intoit other than like, well, it was
just a dream.
But I think I should starttaking like precautionary things
.
Then lj I don't know if it waslike a few days later or a week,
it wasn't long after ends upfalling asleep, having a dream
and for some strange reason hiswas just weird.

(01:16:04):
Um, he said that somebody hadknocked at the door and when he
opened it it was Chewbacca.
And he does his little thingand LJ is like this is a dream
and like closes it and lays backdown like on the bed.
But then there's a knock againand this time he grabs like the

(01:16:28):
weird little I don't know BB gunthing we had at the time in his
dream, opens up the door but noone is there.
But he looks down the steps andthere's this woman who almost
seems pretty much the same butis mostly dead, and he can tell
that she's dead.
So then, after he sees that hecloses the door, he wakes up and

(01:16:52):
I was like, well, that soundsweird.
Who knows, maybe I told himabout it.
He had a dream.
Okay, then there was his dad.
His dad was the one who had thephysical, actual, awake,
completely experience.
He was in his garage and atnight he would have the garage

(01:17:15):
only halfway up, so the bottomis open, top is still right here
mid he would just have beersand smoke cigarettes in the
garage.
That's what he did.
He said he heard someone knockat the door.
Well, not knock at the door,but knock on the garage.
He's like, yeah, and he thoughtit was like someone from the
neighborhood at the time, so itwasn't too weird.
But it's already nighttime,it's dark, no one answers.

(01:17:38):
So he gets a little bit louderand no one answers again and
he's just like, oh, maybe theywent away.
But then he hears the knockagain.
Well, he's not dumb, and he'snot dumb and he's also southern,
so of course he has a gun nextto him.
Um, of course he immediatelytakes the safety off and he's
just like all right, well,whoever's playing games, I'm

(01:17:59):
armed, and so he goes and helifts the thing up and they had
a really long driveway, so it'slike she knocked.
But then was all the way almostat the edge and for some
strange reason, like Jim wasnever a stupid man, but for some

(01:18:23):
strange reason he did a stupidthing and started to try to
follow this lady.
To try to follow this lady andhe said that she was like
dressed in white, that he waslike the prettiest girl that he
had ever seen in his life, andstarts trying to follow and then
gets to about the edge afteryou leave their driveway.

(01:18:45):
It's hard to describe, but it'slike there's no sidewalk.
But she's just a few feet awayand he thought it was weird that
it was hard for him to catch up, because he's already an old
man, so it was hard for him tocatch up, but she kept moving so
fast but it didn't seem natural.
But she was just so pretty Likeobviously he was thinking with
his downstairs, that's all itreally was, and so he's asking

(01:19:11):
if she needs help.
All of this while he's tryingto follow her, she's not saying
anything and she's just likethere, and then not there.
And then, once he got to theedge of the sidewalk, I think
she ended up trying to turn kindof like down the driveway where
we lived, but it's a very longdriveway and in there is like a

(01:19:31):
whole bunch of bushes and awhole bunch of houses that are
actually abandoned in that area,like at least three of them.
They're small but they're there.
And I don't know if he justrandomly woke up out of his
trance or what have you, but hewas just like nope and went back
to the garage.
So I was just like nope andwent back to the garage.

(01:19:53):
So I was just like it's weirdthat we're all describing the
same lady within a month of eachother.
I don't like this, and it wasalways the same thing where it
was just like LJ could tell thatshe was pretty but immediately
knew she was dead.
I saw like gorgeous, and onlyafter like a few seconds I could

(01:20:14):
see the shift between deadliving, dead living.
And then you got Jim who justthought I don't know that she
was normal, and then obviouslyit wasn't normal yeah so don't
really know if that was asuccubus, but I feel like if
there's anything to give a nameto, it's probably as close as
you get right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
So do you feel like this was?
Obviously it sounds terrifying,but yeah, it was a little bit.
Do you think that this was likea confirmation of your new
experiences that you have beenhaving?
Or like how did you approachthis situation and how did you

(01:20:52):
approach the fear?

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
um, it was scary, but I think one of the biggest
lessons that I learnedoriginally even before like all
of a sudden my fear of thedarkness was gone was just like
a witch should always becomfortable being able to go
into the woods and not be scared, like especially of anything
paranormal, like you're notsupposed to be.
You can control it.
You can control what's gonnahappen.

(01:21:16):
You can do this, you can dothat.
So I guess I always just hadthat like instilled into me and
don't get me wrong like I wasstill fearful because that's not
normal, but it definitely wasjust like time to look up sigils
, time to look up protection,because I don't trust this, so
couldn't control it being on theland.

(01:21:37):
There was definitely somethingwrong with the land, but I can
control it from going in myhouse.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Right, so do you think that this is still
following the thread that youstarted weaving earlier about
empowerment?

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
I think so.
I think it helped because it'sstill one of those things.
Well like, we didn't have aproblem again after it, but I, I
think what more did that wasbeing able to do something, like
the whole grandma thing,whereas, like I did a spell and
the very next day it was justlike oh, I'm back right I'm fine
, I'm like you, sure?

(01:22:13):
uh, that was more of like wow.
I didn't even have anythinglike talking to me or really
connecting to me at that pointeither.
So to know that I did that withthe resources, that I had not
even deities helping me and Iwas able to do it, that was
empowering that is, and the factthat it's a shared experience

(01:22:34):
is also wild yes so during thattime, did you think of calling
on god at all?
no, no, because when I firstfound that little community, it
was definitely had to besomething about denial.

(01:22:55):
I was like I'm going to get introuble, I'm going to go to hell
.
But then I guess just hearingpeople say like, oh well, you
can't go to hell if you don'tbelieve in it, it's just like
huh, like well now.
So I didn't feel so guilty.
I was just kind of like youknow what?
I haven't been to church?
Um, never heard god, neverheard jesus.

(01:23:17):
So let's try this out.
I didn't hear any deities for awhile until I actually
physically started to work withthem like one-on-one and I asked
so nice well, thank you so muchfor sharing all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
I'm glad that you were not taken into the abyss,
yeah, and that your kids aresafe yeah do you have any advice
for anyone who would want moreinformation about you know going
into this and you can't sayresearch again?

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Oh, I was like, definitely research.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
How I guess my deeper question how should people
discern what is authentic andwhat isn't?

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
You will mostly have a basis of people who will tell
you and let you know certainthings is a closed practice.
Definitely listen to that.
But the point of research islike I actually found this
person on TikTok and I wanted todelve a little deeper into what
he found for his resources forthe Norse pantheon and he

(01:24:25):
started talking about runes andI was like you know, I always
struggle with really trying toconnect with runes.
I was just like what, what areyour tips?
What books did you read inorder to give me this?
And he was just like runes area closed practice.
And I was like no, they're not.
That's like saying like norse,like just norse.
Paganism is closed, it's not.

(01:24:45):
But that's like a great exampleof just like why you have to do
the research Because you'llhear everything from everyone
and they could be right, theycould be wrong, and then you'll
never know and you could do besomething wrong that'll hurt you
in the long run.
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Okay.
Are there any initiationrituals that people should be
aware of?
Or is that more like anindependent decision?

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
oh, actually, yes, if you come from a monotheistic
religion specifically, um, youneed to deconstruct.
Actually, I think that's evenwith any other religion.
If you come from religion ingeneral, you probably have a
mindset of good and evil.
You're going to have that.

(01:25:33):
You need to deconstruct thatfirst before you completely get
into, like what deities I shouldbe talking to.
Uh, what work should I be doing?
No, deconstruct, get all thatstuff out of your system,
because now you're in adifferent game where almost
everything runs wild and it'llonly stay with you if you're the

(01:25:54):
one who wants to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
And that's about it what is one thing that you wish
you knew earlier in yourreligious path?
Um.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
I think if I would have actually made the decision
to be like well, obviously I hadproof that I can do magic, if I
would have thought first aboutmaybe dealing with all of my
demons and my problems and kindof like better helping myself
first, that would have helped mea lot further than before.

(01:26:37):
So just know like you can usemagic for yourself too, not to
just get physical stuff likemoney, luck, like really work
out your own personal problemsright, and this is the first
time that you've said magic inthis interview, actually, which
is surprising, coming from awitch I try to stay away from

(01:26:58):
the term because people don'tlike it.
I like thinking of it more of ascience almost but a lot of
people hate hearing that termbecause they're just like oh,
harry potter, I'm like not thesame.

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
I have to ask do you spell magic with or without the
K?

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
With the K.
Okay, probably because it getsa little less.
It seems slightly more mystical, but also gets a lot less bad
looks compared to just using,like, with a C.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Right, okay, okay.
So do you have any words ofwisdom or something that you've
learned or taken from witchcraft, from your journey?
Whatever it is that you thinkcan benefit other people?

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
I think no matter what deities, religion, anything
that you rely upon for a higherpower, I think you really
really need to try to have aone-on-one relationship.

(01:28:05):
I understand hearing aboutrules within those religions.
I understand that there arealso people who will really
highly recommend that you followrules a certain way.
Only you can have thatrelationship with your deity.
Do not let anyone ever tell youotherwise how it's supposed to

(01:28:26):
go, how it works for you, how itshould be.
Just have that connection andit won't steer you wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
And how do you think that connection would help
people with their well-being?

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
I think people would actually become better people,
honestly, if religion as a wholedied.
It's really really harsh, but Ifeel like, because of religion,
it becomes a construct ofhaving rules and regulations
between the relationship youshould be having with your

(01:29:01):
spiritual essence, your deity,whoever, and because of that it
restricts you and because ofthat you do wrong things.
I'm not going to say bad things, because people don't
intentionally do bad.
It makes bad things happen,though, and it makes wrong
decisions come up.

(01:29:22):
So it's better to, yes, worshipthe way you believe it should
be worshipped, and you canfollow those rules, that's fine.
You believe it should beworshipped and follow you can
follow those rules, that's fine,but don't let anyone ever tell
you how your specificrelationship with that deity is
supposed to be at all and do youhave any cautionary tales or

(01:29:44):
something that someone shouldconsider if they want to
participate in this kind ofspirituality, something that's
happened to you or that you'veseen?
so it's definitely true.
I don't know about the wholethird eye thing.
Like I said, I've had this kindof issue since I was a kid.
I don't know if like the wholething for the third eye has ever

(01:30:07):
worked.
I've experimented with so manydifferent things.
It's ridiculous.
I love it, but it's hard to.
Um, definitely things willstart to happen to you because
now you have opened yourself upto a whole new realm that you
had originally sectionedyourself off from.

(01:30:28):
Um, that doesn't meaneverything is bad.
You can still control it.
You can still help yourself.
You will definitely have adifferent mindset on demons,
that's for sure.
Um, you can pretty much almostcommunicate with everything.
The fairies are not cute littletinkerbell things at all.

(01:30:52):
There's a whole bunch ofdifferent types of fey, so
that's fun what about thedwarves?
I don't know about the dwarves.
I don't.
I should really look into that.
I really should, um, becausenow I'm just like I wonder if we
can have communication with thedwarves I mean, they're the
ones who made all the weaponsanyways.
Um, but yeah, uh, that's whyprotection is the biggest,

(01:31:15):
biggest, biggest thing.
And make sure you are mentallysound, physically sound, with
the best of your ability,because sometimes we all have
ailments we can't control.
Um, if you want it to work foryou, no matter what your faith
is like, you have to make surethat all three of those things
are fed pretty well.
So your spiritual, mental andphysical, but take care of

(01:31:37):
yourself, don't ignore it.
It's my advice.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
Well, thank you, brittany, for being on this
podcast.
It took a little pulling teethto get you here.
I'm sorry, but I reallyappreciate your time and this
wonderful conversation that wehad.
I also want to thank thelisteners for making it in this

(01:32:06):
far.
I hope to continue exploringthemes across a variety of
different religions, faiths,practices and spiritualities.
I know my earlier episodes havekind of been focused on
Christianity, but I did tell youthat we were going to go on an
adventure, so I hope you can seethe threads of where this is
going and that's the religiosity.

(01:32:30):
Thank you for listening.
Thank you for being here.
Be happy, be healthy and bewell.