In this episode, Curtis Matsko, the CEO and Founder of Portland Leather Goods, shares how he built a $125 million business in just years. Starting on a bet to impress his girlfriend, Curtis leveraged his expertise in Internet marketing to sell leather journals at art festivals, eventually becoming the top seller on Etsy, getting 185,000 Five Star reviews and establishing the largest leather production factory in North America. The key to Portland Leather Goods' success are unique marketing strategies, exceptional product quality, and the power of referrals. Curtis emphasizes the importance of being fearless, creative, and different in marketing, as well as cultivating talent within the company. He offers advice to aspiring entrepreneurs on the long-term commitment needed to achieve remarkable success as he shares 10 years of learnings in just 20 minutes on the podcast.
Check out Portland Leather Goods
00:10 The Unconventional Journey of an Entrepreneur
00:45 From a Bet to a $125 Million Business
02:17 The Secret Sauce to Success: Quality and Marketing
03:50 Innovative Marketing Strategies and Being Different
11:01 Scaling Up and the Importance of Creativity and Fearlessness
16:50 Building Talent from Within and Empowering Employees
19:36 Final Words of Advice for Entrepreneurs and Marketers
Join us for a conversation that is as much about the inner workings of a thriving enterprise as it is about the tenacity and spirit needed to chart your own path to the top.
Send us a Text Message, give feedback on the episode, suggest a guest or topic
Visit the Remarkable Marketing Podcast website to see all our episodes.
Visit the Remarkable Marketing Podcast on YouTube
Remarkable Marketing Podcast Highlights on Instagram
Eric Eden on LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:00):
Welcome to today's episode.
Our guest today is Curtis.
He is the CEO and founder ofPortland Leather Kids.
Welcome to the show.
Thanks, eric, appreciate it.
So you're an entrepreneur.
You've massively grown yourbusiness to over $100 million.
Why don't you share a littlebit about who you are and what
you do before we jump into yourremarkable marketing story, so
(00:23):
people have an idea what you'reall about?
Curtis Matsko (00:26):
Thanks.
I am an entrepreneur, butreally I'm just a crazy guy from
Montana who is overeducated andno one's stupid enough to hire
me.
So I'm forced into thatentrepreneurship type of a deal
because I literally am anunhirable.
Who would hire me, even thoughI have a lot of experience doing
this stuff?
That's number one.
Number two is I started puttingleather goods on a bed and not
(00:49):
a lot of people know that it wasmy girlfriend, was had a bad
job and she had just got out ofcollege.
She had a terrible job and Isaid quit your job.
And she said if I quit my job,what will I do for money?
And I said oh, I've never toldyou.
I'm a little older than you,I'm a brilliant internet
marketer.
And she said shit, no way,you're just some loser guy who
(01:11):
does yoga all day, every day,and I'm like no, I'm really good
at this stuff.
And she literally quit her joband said what are we going to
sell?
I said if you quit, all youhave to do is help me and we'll
build this $100 million companyand she's great.
She literally quit her job andthen she said what are we going
to sell?
And I said I don't know.
And I walked into a leatherstore, bought a little piece of
(01:35):
leather, spent a couple daysmaking and I went upstairs and I
said this leather journal,we're going to sell these
leather journals.
And she's oh no, I quit you.
We're going to sell theseleather journals.
And she's oh no, I quit my.
You've got to be kidding me.
This is a horrible idea.
And we went out to art festivalsand set records literally
$40,000 in a weekend.
(01:55):
We had lines of people no,everyone.
All the other people arecomplaining.
Why is everyone buying fromthis guy?
We made way too good of aproduct and I sold it for way
too little.
And the reason I sold it for solittle is I was afraid we
wouldn't be able to pay for theevent.
You have to go to Seattle or gosomeplace and you got to pay
for gas and hotels, and so wejust learned how to do that.
(02:17):
We went on to Etsy and became atop 10 all-time seller on Etsy
within a year and a half.
Of the 2 million people, wewere top 10.
Not 10, top 10%, top 10.
And you had to create updifferent aspects of that to
make that work.
Then we moved over to Portlandleather goodscom and double
(02:37):
every year and last year we didover 125 million.
We'll do a lot more this yearand we have a rabid following
and we grow, and a lot of thatis because I come from this as a
marketing point of view.
I'm not an artist who createdsomething leather.
Oh.
Do you love fashion?
Do you love design?
(02:57):
Do you love leather?
And I'm like no.
I loved impressing this girland showing her that I could
sell something, and this seemedlike a great avenue and now I
love it.
But it's not that I have thispassion for it.
Before I started, I just neededsomething to sell and then we
created up this little companybecause of that.
Eric Eden (03:16):
That sounds like a pretty amazing winning bet of
growing the company to $125million.
Curtis Matsko (03:22):
She's still with me.
She actually lives with me here.
I'm at my house in Mexico andwe have the largest leather
production factory in NorthAmerica.
Now that we run here in Mexico.
Eric Eden (03:37):
Wow, and what are some of the most popular
bestselling leather productsthat you've sold to get to that
125 million?
Curtis Matsko (03:47):
Oh, eric, it's evolved all the time.
The basic fundamentals are ifyou're going to do, if you're
going to succeed at an artfestival, okay, it's the same as
succeeding on Etsy and it's thesame as succeeding online.
Right, you better have aproduct that a lot of people
want.
Does that make sense?
You can't just be a niche typeof a thing.
You got to be able to expandthat market out, so a lot of
(04:10):
people have to want that, soyou've got to do that.
It's got to be at a price pointthat they can't say no to.
They literally cannot say no tothat.
And then it has to be betterthan they expected.
So we have over 185,000five-star reviews on our website
.
In a few years we have 180.
(04:34):
Now that only one in 20 peopleeven go on and do that.
So you can imagine how manysales we have.
So when they open that boxonline, they better go.
I didn't know it was going tobe this good, right, because our
community says this is amazing,you want to buy this.
And they're like yeah, I boughtit, but is it going to be that
good?
And they open up that box andthey're like first of all,
(04:55):
they're hit with that leathersmell and they're like this is
real leather.
Then they feel and they look atit and they're like how in the
hell did they make it for thatlow of a price?
We spend tens of millions ofdollars, tens of millions on
advertising with Google andFacebook.
Right, our number one customercomes because their neighbor or
their friend or their sistersaid this is so awesome, you
(05:22):
need to buy that Referrals areabove what you pay for.
So that's how you scalesomething up.
You get something so good.
Now did I immediately createsomething so good?
I'm telling you, I was so proudof that first journal I brought
home and she cringed for goodreason.
It was terrible, but you'reimproving and you're improving
and you're improving and you'reimproving and you're getting
better all the time.
Somebody says why are you sosuccessful?
We're the only ones stupid todeal with real leather anymore.
(05:45):
Right, anybody above a hundred,a million, they're using fake
leather.
They just don't.
Every single one of these majorbrands that you're talking
about the 10 billion, thehundred million, the 2 billion
it's all fake leather and anyonewho deals with real leather and
it looks and smells.
That's what we do.
So the marketing was this is amarketing podcast, eric, get it
(06:08):
so they're blown away.
They cannot believe it and thenalways be changing.
I'll give you a great exampleof this.
When you hire somebody inmarketing, they like to say look
what everybody else is doing,we should be doing that.
They're doing that.
That is the dumbest thing I'veever heard of in my entire life.
Do not copy, you don't know howtheir company's doing.
(06:28):
Of the five companies, when Istarted you were doing leather
goods.
My people would come to me allthe time and say look, this
company's doing this, we need todo this, we need to do this.
Four of those five are out ofbusiness, bankrupt out of
business, and some of those werepretty big companies at that
time.
So if you follow the leader,you don't know what their
finances really are.
You have to do somethingdifferent.
(06:48):
When we went on to Etsy, Irealized one little thing they
used square pictures.
So we're talking right here inthis thing, but they use square.
But then on the listing, whensomebody searches for you, it's
like a search engine.
When you go to Etsy rightsearches for you, it's like a
search engine.
When you go to Etsy right, itchomps it down into a horizontal
rather than a square.
(07:09):
So if you have a bag and youhave a model, first of all they
always put their arm over thebag and you have the bag here.
If you take a square picture ofthat and then you go like this,
you cut out the person's face,does that make any sense?
Eric Eden (07:23):
No.
Curtis Matsko (07:24):
If you take a picture of a face of a model and
then you put the bag down hereand you make it into a square
picture.
If you crop that down into ahorizontal one or a rectangle
like we're talking here, iteither cuts out the bag or cuts
out the face.
So people would search forleather goods and on everybody
that would come would only showa bag of a model.
So I took the bag and I shovedit up against a guy with a beard
(07:48):
like you, eric.
So it was this big guy smilingwith a beard and he had it
shoved up so high that you couldput the bag and his face in the
picture.
And so when you search leathertote bag, it was a guy with a
beard rather than a girl andit's the only one that had a
face on it.
It was different than everybodyelse's.
(08:09):
Nobody else did that, and so wegot so many clicks that we
started spending a hundreddollars a day on that ad, and
then 500 and then a thousand.
And then Etsy contacted us andsaid no one spends more than a
thousand dollars a day.
None of our two main storesspend more.
They had to change thealgorithm to allow us to start
spending 10 and 20 and 30,000 aday.
Now, within a month, theychanged it for everyone to do it
(08:31):
, but we're the first one whoever started spending more than
a thousand dollars a day on oneapp.
Why?
Because you search for aleather tote bag.
We had a picture of a guy'sface in a bag and no one else
did.
That's what I mean by doingsomething different.
You've got to be different.
You cannot follow the otherpeople that are leading you down
a mistake.
Eric Eden (08:51):
A thousand percent.
Being different is a great wayto win.
There's so many actual greatthings here.
It sounds like the first thingis just no fake news, no fake
leather.
I like that a lot, just havinga real product.
And then, once you have a realproduct, it does lead to those
referrals.
Like you're saying, people fromthe smell and the quality of it
(09:11):
will then refer other peopleand that's what really gets you
scale, like you were saying, andit sounds like you mastered
some of these key digitalchannels, like Etsy.
Like you just became such amaster of it.
They had to change theirlogarithm.
Curtis Matsko (09:24):
That's crazy awesome such a master of it,
they had to change theirlogarithm.
That's crazy, awesome.
Yeah, being different is nevera problem for me and this
halfway sincerely.
I'm the youngest of four boysfrom Montana and my brothers
were bigger and stronger and Iwas the class clown and the
class personality and I'm alwaysdoing something crazy.
That works in marketing.
That works.
(09:45):
We were talking ahead of timewith Instagram and reels and
TikTok and everything that youjust get just this fast thing, a
blur, blur.
It's what stands out, isdifferent.
That's what makes the mark, notwhat everyone else is doing,
and that's just not somethingyou say.
That is something you live dayto day when you're making
decisions.
Now, your product needs to beawesome, wide scale and
(10:07):
fantastic, but your marketinghas to be different.
So when we started hiringphotographers to take it, eric,
they wanted to do it like everyfashion brand does.
Skinny 20 year old girl lookinglike her boyfriend pissed her
off and she's standing in thelobby waiting for it like this
(10:30):
and you're just like.
I don't like this person.
So we got people to smile andI'm telling you, eric, you've
been in, you've been in thebusiness for a while.
Hiring models that know how tosmile naturally is almost
impossible.
Go to a modeling agency andlook at their pictures.
There will not be a smile onany of those pictures and
they're like.
(10:50):
I'm sure the girl can smile.
No, they're not.
How do you get that person tosmile?
Naturally, it's an art.
Eric Eden (10:58):
Yeah, feigning it's almost like feigning interest,
right, you can tell.
I love the story when you'reout there doing it on the
weekends to get it going at theart festivals.
But obviously the scale wouldbe in the online advertising.
And my question in that is howwere you able to scale in the
online advertising?
Was it the referrals?
Was it the quality of theproduct?
(11:18):
Were there other things thatdrove that sort of scale?
Because most people don't getthat.
That's like one in a hundredthousand.
Curtis Matsko (11:24):
You've got to be creative and you got to be
fearless.
Okay, you've got to be creativeand you got to be fearless
because you're spending money.
Everyone here's the.
Let's go back to any example.
Let's go back to the Etsyexample.
I would talk to my friends andI'm like how are you making so
much money on Etsy?
And I'm like we spendadvertising.
They're like I advertise too.
I spend $20 a day, I spend $30a day, I spend $50 a day.
(11:47):
And I'm like wow,congratulations.
They're like if I spend more, Idon't get the money back.
And I'm like okay, you spendmore.
You get scared.
You're like what do you look atthat and you say how do I get
this to give me the returns Ineed so I can scale it?
And that is a day to day, hourto hour.
There's no hack on this.
Everybody I have been at partieswhere I've literally been
(12:09):
cornered by people saying whoget drunk say what's the secret?
Man, just tell me what thesecret is.
I'm like oh yeah, I haven'ttold anybody else, but this is
the secret.
The secret is being obsessive,never been settling on something
and continuing to try somethingnew every single day and doing
things that people are going totell you is stupid.
(12:30):
That is wrong.
That's not the right way.
I don't like this, because noone ever gets faulted for saying
no to an idea.
If you're in a group and they'relike, hey, we plan to spend
money on this, the people say,let's be conservative.
I don't know, I don't like that.
They never get judgment forthat.
It's the people who do it andit fails, they get hit.
So people get afraid.
You cannot be afraid.
(12:51):
If you're going to scalesomething on the internet, you
cannot be afraid.
But once you start scaling andyou're changing, you better have
the customer service.
You better always be looking atthat.
You better be looking at thosenumbers.
And then there's always Eric,what I call the magic.
It is not a formula numbersgame.
There's a way to look at thisand have a feeling of this is I
(13:12):
feel this is changing.
There's something different.
We need to try something new.
Something's not quite right inthe numbers.
Every time I tell my peoplethere's something wrong in the
numbers, they're like what?
I'm like, I don't know, I canfeel it.
When they dig down down, theyfind what I'm talking about
right.
Eric Eden (13:27):
You have to do it day to day, week to week, year to
year, and you got to know whatit feels like the market's
turning against you, and soyou're always creating something
new I love this aspect of beingbrave because, being a marketer
, I was once talking to the ceoand founder of a company I was
working with and we wereinvesting a lot of money in this
(13:49):
one campaign and program, andhe just casually mentioned, if
this doesn't work out, that theboard might fire you.
I was like I hadn't thoughtabout that, but I was like it
made me realize that I was beingpretty brave.
So I think being fearless orbrave is a pretty big part of
marketing.
You have to take a risk.
(14:09):
But there's certain things whenyou say also being creative,
there's smart risks and thenthere's dumb risks, and so I
think if you're going to take arisk and spend money, then you
should be creative and make surethat the bet you took to start
your company, that the odds arein your favor.
Curtis Matsko (14:27):
That was just a.
I am known from patterns in mylife that when I take risks and
when I move forward, I don'tknow what the solution is now
but I will find it in a month ortwo Right.
So it's always a risk patternsin your life that say I can do
this and that's what itliterally comes down to.
There's also this one of mymaster's degrees I can do this
and that's what it literallycomes down to.
There's also this One of mymaster's degrees English
(14:47):
literature.
So I love story, Read a greatstory.
There's always the time in thefirst five chapters where people
are saying you can't do it.
Everything is stacked againstthem and they have to step out
into the unknown and trysomething.
And we're like do it, Come on,don't be afraid, Do it, do it,
Come on, Don't be afraid, Do it.
You're going to.
And then they become successfuland you're like I love this
story.
And then you talk to them abouttheir own life and oh, no, oh,
(15:09):
are you kidding me?
No, we love it in other people,we admire in other people.
When we have to make thedecision, we get afraid.
So I surround myself with peoplewhose job it is to be cautious.
Why my job is to be over thetop.
And so they're always saying,hey, slow it down.
But I'm pulling their brains,I'm pulling their mind, I'm
(15:30):
creating things that they didn'tthink was possible.
I tell everybody in our company,in one year you will not be
able to recognize this company,you will not be able to
recognize this company.
And they're like, yeah, I cansee that in the past, but not
this year.
Mariana, is it the same way?
(15:55):
It is larger than ever.
We are going from 25 differentplaces that we make here in
Mexico to one mega studio whichis the largest leather producing
factory in North America, wherewe control the leather, the
inventory, the storage, thecutting, the design, the
production, the logistics ofgetting our stuff to market in
Texas to be sold online,sometimes in six to eight days.
So that's a little differentthan ordering from China, where
(16:18):
you're talking.
I hope in five months peoplestill want this product, so if
they like something online, Ican literally refill that as
fast as it says.
Eric Eden (16:29):
So that's one of the biggest parts of being an
entrepreneur is, just like yousaid, figuring things out right.
Fall down seven times, get upeight times.
Curtis Matsko (16:37):
It's everything.
It's not part of it, it'severything.
You've got to figure it out.
No one else is going to do it.
You can't hire an expert.
They're not really experts,they really don't know what
they're doing.
You've got to figure it out.
It's up to you.
Eric Eden (16:50):
So what was the hardest thing about this journey
of building the company towhere it's at from your point of
view?
Curtis Matsko (16:59):
I don't know.
It's been pretty fun, Literally.
I started this in a garage andnow, Eric, I don't want you
glamorizing one of these Texasgarages.
This is Portland.
This was a single car garage,not one of those big ass five
car garages like they have.
And then we I always had to bethinking farther ahead than
everyone thought.
I look back and there were 10times where I could have made a
(17:23):
conservative decision oh, thatbuilding's too big, let's move
into the smaller one.
And then, if we need a biggerone, we move there.
Now, always, I look back.
That would have crushed us.
We would not have made it right, Because when you grow that
fast, you need to be way aheadof yourself right there.
What have I learned?
What I've learned is I'm evenbetter at judging people, and I
(17:44):
was pretty good at the verybeginning.
Ingrown talent is better thanoutside talent.
The woman who's our COO isstarted at $10 an hour,
part-time in our company.
The head of our marketing, whowill spend $40 million this year
, didn't go to college.
It was a photographer and cameinto work part-time, $12 an hour
(18:05):
and within two days of meetinghim, I'm like this guy's a
genius.
We taught him marketing, hetook off and now he's getting
offers for a million dollars ayear from other companies to go
to them and he's saying whywould I leave Curtis?
He's dumb enough to entrust mewith $40 million a year to spend
to learn what I'm doing.
So I brought the talent fromthe inside up.
Because you get good people,you trust them, you say I
(18:26):
believe in you, you let themlearn.
They're always going to bebetter than these outside folks.
Eric Eden (18:31):
You built great talent.
I love that.
That's really awesome, ratherthan just going out and trying
to pay for it.
Curtis Matsko (18:36):
I don't think I built it.
I showed them what they couldbe.
I believed in them.
They did a lot of thisthemselves.
Does that make sense?
They had that capacity.
They needed someone to say youcan do this and I believe in you
.
And they had doubts.
Many of my best employees.
Every three months they'll cometo me and have a breakdown and
say I've never done this before.
This is too much.
(18:57):
This is growing too fast.
And I'm saying remember whenyou said that three months ago
and six months ago and ninemonths ago you can do it.
And I give them a hug and sendthem back out and they're good
for three more months.
And then they look back andthey cannot believe how much
they've grown.
Eric Eden (19:13):
I love that.
It sounds like you're acomplete purveyor of chaos for
growth.
I love it.
Curtis Matsko (19:18):
Oh, mariana, do you like that?
A purveyor of chaos for growth.
That was actually the name ofmy, but I was going to call that
my new podcast that I'm goingto have Eric, I'll ask Jan when
I create my new podcast a greatconveyor of chaos for growth.
Eric Eden (19:35):
Can't wait.
So final words of advice forother entrepreneurs and
marketers.
They're probably not going intothe leather goods business but,
broadly speaking, if peoplewant to aspire to be remarkable
and create a hundred milliondollar business, largely driven
by marketing, like you have.
Beyond what you've alreadyshared, what additional words of
(19:57):
advice would you give?
Curtis Matsko (19:59):
I think that one of the main things and it's
something that people willforget, but remind yourself of
this once a week and it is weoften overestimate what we can
do in a year.
We underestimate what we can doin 10.
So this has been a longerjourney and everyone said could
you do it again?
Yes, could I do it faster?
Yes, were all the lessons thatI learned important?
(20:22):
Yes, I don't even know.
I was talking to employeesyesterday, eric and they were
trying to figure something outand my brain.
I explained how I figured thisout.
They're like, wow, that'sbrilliant.
I got that in 10 to 15 secondsright.
All those pieces came togetherbecause I have patterns and
history and other things that Idon't even know that I have
(20:43):
learned, that I was able to seethat and I'm shocked that they
can't see it.
It takes time Fight, go throughthe nights, go through the long
weekends, work it, celebratethe small wins, win, win, lose
and over time, you will beateverybody else out.
It's a long-term game.
Beat them over time, not in thenext week.
Eric Eden (21:05):
Great advice.
I love all of this andlistening to this episode it
reminds me of when I used towatch that TV show, mad Men, and
they were drinking and smokingduring the show.
After this episode I don't knowwhy, but right now I just have
a sudden urge to be around realleather and have the smell of it
.
It's just a mental cue hasfired for me.
(21:28):
So I hope everyone listeninghas that same feeling and goes
to Portland Leather Goods andchecks out some of the great
things you're doing.
I would encourage people ifthey would like to connect with
you and learn more.
I'll link to your LinkedInprofile in the show notes and
they can shoot you a note ifthey have a it's up in your
place, sarah.
Curtis Matsko (21:46):
Okay, actually, you said, hey, how are people
gonna communicate with you?
And I said the only real way isLinkedIn.
This is my personal assistant,mariana, hello, and we literally
do videos right here from myhouse, where I set my MacBook
down right here and I tell themwhat the hell I'm thinking in
that day, what I'm doing,problems, how we overcome them.
And we're actually doing thisthree, four or five times a week
(22:09):
as we create this company,because one of these episodes
that you do, eric, is great.
I'm trying to condense 10 yearsdown into this, but this is a
minute to minute, hour to hour,day to day thing.
So LinkedIn, curtis, matt's,goes the best way, and you may
not like what I say, but,mariana, I'm a genius.
Oh, she's a freaking genius.
Absolutely no, we have a lot offun doing these.
(22:32):
We have a lot of fun.
Eric Eden (22:34):
We appreciate you joining us today, spending the
time and sharing all these greatinsights and all these things
you've learned on your journey.
Insights and all these thingsyou've learned on your journey.
I think it is inspiring, sothank you very much for being
with us today.
We appreciate it Inspiring.
Curtis Matsko (22:46):
Yes, we are All right Love that.
Welcome to today's episode.
Our guest today is Curtis.
He is the CEO and founder ofPortland Leather Kids.
Welcome to the show.
Thanks, eric, appreciate it.
So you're an entrepreneur.
You've massively grown yourbusiness to over $100 million.
Why don't you share a littlebit about who you are and what
you do before we jump into yourremarkable marketing story, so
(00:23):
people have an idea what you'reall about?
Curtis Matsko (00:26):
Thanks.
I am an entrepreneur, butreally I'm just a crazy guy from
Montana who is overeducated andno one's stupid enough to hire
me.
So I'm forced into thatentrepreneurship type of a deal
because I literally am anunhirable.
Who would hire me, even thoughI have a lot of experience doing
this stuff?
That's number one.
Number two is I started puttingleather goods on a bed and not
(00:49):
a lot of people know that it wasmy girlfriend, was had a bad
job and she had just got out ofcollege.
She had a terrible job and Isaid quit your job.
And she said if I quit my job,what will I do for money?
And I said oh, I've never toldyou.
I'm a little older than you,I'm a brilliant internet
marketer.
And she said shit, no way,you're just some loser guy who
(01:11):
does yoga all day, every day,and I'm like no, I'm really good
at this stuff.
And she literally quit her joband said what are we going to
sell?
I said if you quit, all youhave to do is help me and we'll
build this $100 million companyand she's great.
She literally quit her job andthen she said what are we going
to sell?
And I said I don't know.
And I walked into a leatherstore, bought a little piece of
(01:35):
leather, spent a couple daysmaking and I went upstairs and I
said this leather journal,we're going to sell these
leather journals.
And she's oh no, I quit you.
We're going to sell theseleather journals.
And she's oh no, I quit my.
You've got to be kidding me.
This is a horrible idea.
And we went out to art festivalsand set records literally
$40,000 in a weekend.
(01:55):
We had lines of people no,everyone.
All the other people arecomplaining.
Why is everyone buying fromthis guy?
We made way too good of aproduct and I sold it for way
too little.
And the reason I sold it for solittle is I was afraid we
wouldn't be able to pay for theevent.
You have to go to Seattle or gosomeplace and you got to pay
for gas and hotels, and so wejust learned how to do that.
(02:17):
We went on to Etsy and became atop 10 all-time seller on Etsy
within a year and a half.
Of the 2 million people, wewere top 10.
Not 10, top 10%, top 10.
And you had to create updifferent aspects of that to
make that work.
Then we moved over to Portlandleather goodscom and double
(02:37):
every year and last year we didover 125 million.
We'll do a lot more this yearand we have a rabid following
and we grow, and a lot of thatis because I come from this as a
marketing point of view.
I'm not an artist who createdsomething leather.
Oh.
Do you love fashion?
Do you love design?
(02:57):
Do you love leather?
And I'm like no.
I loved impressing this girland showing her that I could
sell something, and this seemedlike a great avenue and now I
love it.
But it's not that I have thispassion for it.
Before I started, I just neededsomething to sell and then we
created up this little companybecause of that.
Eric Eden (03:16):
That sounds like a pretty amazing winning bet of
growing the company to $125million.
Curtis Matsko (03:22):
She's still with me.
She actually lives with me here.
I'm at my house in Mexico andwe have the largest leather
production factory in NorthAmerica.
Now that we run here in Mexico.
Eric Eden (03:37):
Wow, and what are some of the most popular
bestselling leather productsthat you've sold to get to that
125 million?
Curtis Matsko (03:47):
Oh, eric, it's evolved all the time.
The basic fundamentals are ifyou're going to do, if you're
going to succeed at an artfestival, okay, it's the same as
succeeding on Etsy and it's thesame as succeeding online.
Right, you better have aproduct that a lot of people
want.
Does that make sense?
You can't just be a niche typeof a thing.
You got to be able to expandthat market out, so a lot of
(04:10):
people have to want that, soyou've got to do that.
It's got to be at a price pointthat they can't say no to.
They literally cannot say no tothat.
And then it has to be betterthan they expected.
So we have over 185,000five-star reviews on our website
.
In a few years we have 180.
(04:34):
Now that only one in 20 peopleeven go on and do that.
So you can imagine how manysales we have.
So when they open that boxonline, they better go.
I didn't know it was going tobe this good, right, because our
community says this is amazing,you want to buy this.
And they're like yeah, I boughtit, but is it going to be that
good?
And they open up that box andthey're like first of all,
(04:55):
they're hit with that leathersmell and they're like this is
real leather.
Then they feel and they look atit and they're like how in the
hell did they make it for thatlow of a price?
We spend tens of millions ofdollars, tens of millions on
advertising with Google andFacebook.
Right, our number one customercomes because their neighbor or
their friend or their sistersaid this is so awesome, you
(05:22):
need to buy that Referrals areabove what you pay for.
So that's how you scalesomething up.
You get something so good.
Now did I immediately createsomething so good?
I'm telling you, I was so proudof that first journal I brought
home and she cringed for goodreason.
It was terrible, but you'reimproving and you're improving
and you're improving and you'reimproving and you're getting
better all the time.
Somebody says why are you sosuccessful?
We're the only ones stupid todeal with real leather anymore.
(05:45):
Right, anybody above a hundred,a million, they're using fake
leather.
They just don't.
Every single one of these majorbrands that you're talking
about the 10 billion, thehundred million, the 2 billion
it's all fake leather and anyonewho deals with real leather and
it looks and smells.
That's what we do.
So the marketing was this is amarketing podcast, eric, get it
(06:08):
so they're blown away.
They cannot believe it and thenalways be changing.
I'll give you a great exampleof this.
When you hire somebody inmarketing, they like to say look
what everybody else is doing,we should be doing that.
They're doing that.
That is the dumbest thing I'veever heard of in my entire life.
Do not copy, you don't know howtheir company's doing.
(06:28):
Of the five companies, when Istarted you were doing leather
goods.
My people would come to me allthe time and say look, this
company's doing this, we need todo this, we need to do this.
Four of those five are out ofbusiness, bankrupt out of
business, and some of those werepretty big companies at that
time.
So if you follow the leader,you don't know what their
finances really are.
You have to do somethingdifferent.
(06:48):
When we went on to Etsy, Irealized one little thing they
used square pictures.
So we're talking right here inthis thing, but they use square.
But then on the listing, whensomebody searches for you, it's
like a search engine.
When you go to Etsy rightsearches for you, it's like a
search engine.
When you go to Etsy right, itchomps it down into a horizontal
rather than a square.
(07:09):
So if you have a bag and youhave a model, first of all they
always put their arm over thebag and you have the bag here.
If you take a square picture ofthat and then you go like this,
you cut out the person's face,does that make any sense?
Eric Eden (07:23):
No.
Curtis Matsko (07:24):
If you take a picture of a face of a model and
then you put the bag down hereand you make it into a square
picture.
If you crop that down into ahorizontal one or a rectangle
like we're talking here, iteither cuts out the bag or cuts
out the face.
So people would search forleather goods and on everybody
that would come would only showa bag of a model.
So I took the bag and I shovedit up against a guy with a beard
(07:48):
like you, eric.
So it was this big guy smilingwith a beard and he had it
shoved up so high that you couldput the bag and his face in the
picture.
And so when you search leathertote bag, it was a guy with a
beard rather than a girl andit's the only one that had a
face on it.
It was different than everybodyelse's.
(08:09):
Nobody else did that, and so wegot so many clicks that we
started spending a hundreddollars a day on that ad, and
then 500 and then a thousand.
And then Etsy contacted us andsaid no one spends more than a
thousand dollars a day.
None of our two main storesspend more.
They had to change thealgorithm to allow us to start
spending 10 and 20 and 30,000 aday.
Now, within a month, theychanged it for everyone to do it
(08:31):
, but we're the first one whoever started spending more than
a thousand dollars a day on oneapp.
Why?
Because you search for aleather tote bag.
We had a picture of a guy'sface in a bag and no one else
did.
That's what I mean by doingsomething different.
You've got to be different.
You cannot follow the otherpeople that are leading you down
a mistake.
Eric Eden (08:51):
A thousand percent.
Being different is a great wayto win.
There's so many actual greatthings here.
It sounds like the first thingis just no fake news, no fake
leather.
I like that a lot, just havinga real product.
And then, once you have a realproduct, it does lead to those
referrals.
Like you're saying, people fromthe smell and the quality of it
(09:11):
will then refer other peopleand that's what really gets you
scale, like you were saying, andit sounds like you mastered
some of these key digitalchannels, like Etsy.
Like you just became such amaster of it.
They had to change theirlogarithm.
Curtis Matsko (09:24):
That's crazy awesome such a master of it,
they had to change theirlogarithm.
That's crazy, awesome.
Yeah, being different is nevera problem for me and this
halfway sincerely.
I'm the youngest of four boysfrom Montana and my brothers
were bigger and stronger and Iwas the class clown and the
class personality and I'm alwaysdoing something crazy.
That works in marketing.
That works.
(09:45):
We were talking ahead of timewith Instagram and reels and
TikTok and everything that youjust get just this fast thing, a
blur, blur.
It's what stands out, isdifferent.
That's what makes the mark, notwhat everyone else is doing,
and that's just not somethingyou say.
That is something you live dayto day when you're making
decisions.
Now, your product needs to beawesome, wide scale and
(10:07):
fantastic, but your marketinghas to be different.
So when we started hiringphotographers to take it, eric,
they wanted to do it like everyfashion brand does.
Skinny 20 year old girl lookinglike her boyfriend pissed her
off and she's standing in thelobby waiting for it like this
(10:30):
and you're just like.
I don't like this person.
So we got people to smile andI'm telling you, eric, you've
been in, you've been in thebusiness for a while.
Hiring models that know how tosmile naturally is almost
impossible.
Go to a modeling agency andlook at their pictures.
There will not be a smile onany of those pictures and
they're like.
(10:50):
I'm sure the girl can smile.
No, they're not.
How do you get that person tosmile?
Naturally, it's an art.
Eric Eden (10:58):
Yeah, feigning it's almost like feigning interest,
right, you can tell.
I love the story when you'reout there doing it on the
weekends to get it going at theart festivals.
But obviously the scale wouldbe in the online advertising.
And my question in that is howwere you able to scale in the
online advertising?
Was it the referrals?
Was it the quality of theproduct?
(11:18):
Were there other things thatdrove that sort of scale?
Because most people don't getthat.
That's like one in a hundredthousand.
Curtis Matsko (11:24):
You've got to be creative and you got to be
fearless.
Okay, you've got to be creativeand you got to be fearless
because you're spending money.
Everyone here's the.
Let's go back to any example.
Let's go back to the Etsyexample.
I would talk to my friends andI'm like how are you making so
much money on Etsy?
And I'm like we spendadvertising.
They're like I advertise too.
I spend $20 a day, I spend $30a day, I spend $50 a day.
(11:47):
And I'm like wow,congratulations.
They're like if I spend more, Idon't get the money back.
And I'm like okay, you spendmore.
You get scared.
You're like what do you look atthat and you say how do I get
this to give me the returns Ineed so I can scale it?
And that is a day to day, hourto hour.
There's no hack on this.
Everybody I have been at partieswhere I've literally been
(12:09):
cornered by people saying whoget drunk say what's the secret?
Man, just tell me what thesecret is.
I'm like oh yeah, I haven'ttold anybody else, but this is
the secret.
The secret is being obsessive,never been settling on something
and continuing to try somethingnew every single day and doing
things that people are going totell you is stupid.
(12:30):
That is wrong.
That's not the right way.
I don't like this, because noone ever gets faulted for saying
no to an idea.
If you're in a group and they'relike, hey, we plan to spend
money on this, the people say,let's be conservative.
I don't know, I don't like that.
They never get judgment forthat.
It's the people who do it andit fails, they get hit.
So people get afraid.
You cannot be afraid.
(12:51):
If you're going to scalesomething on the internet, you
cannot be afraid.
But once you start scaling andyou're changing, you better have
the customer service.
You better always be looking atthat.
You better be looking at thosenumbers.
And then there's always Eric,what I call the magic.
It is not a formula numbersgame.
There's a way to look at thisand have a feeling of this is I
(13:12):
feel this is changing.
There's something different.
We need to try something new.
Something's not quite right inthe numbers.
Every time I tell my peoplethere's something wrong in the
numbers, they're like what?
I'm like, I don't know, I canfeel it.
When they dig down down, theyfind what I'm talking about
right.
Eric Eden (13:27):
You have to do it day to day, week to week, year to
year, and you got to know whatit feels like the market's
turning against you, and soyou're always creating something
new I love this aspect of beingbrave because, being a marketer
, I was once talking to the ceoand founder of a company I was
working with and we wereinvesting a lot of money in this
(13:49):
one campaign and program, andhe just casually mentioned, if
this doesn't work out, that theboard might fire you.
I was like I hadn't thoughtabout that, but I was like it
made me realize that I was beingpretty brave.
So I think being fearless orbrave is a pretty big part of
marketing.
You have to take a risk.
(14:09):
But there's certain things whenyou say also being creative,
there's smart risks and thenthere's dumb risks, and so I
think if you're going to take arisk and spend money, then you
should be creative and make surethat the bet you took to start
your company, that the odds arein your favor.
Curtis Matsko (14:27):
That was just a.
I am known from patterns in mylife that when I take risks and
when I move forward, I don'tknow what the solution is now
but I will find it in a month ortwo Right.
So it's always a risk patternsin your life that say I can do
this and that's what itliterally comes down to.
There's also this one of mymaster's degrees I can do this
and that's what it literallycomes down to.
There's also this One of mymaster's degrees English
(14:47):
literature.
So I love story, Read a greatstory.
There's always the time in thefirst five chapters where people
are saying you can't do it.
Everything is stacked againstthem and they have to step out
into the unknown and trysomething.
And we're like do it, Come on,don't be afraid, Do it, do it,
Come on, Don't be afraid, Do it.
You're going to.
And then they become successfuland you're like I love this
story.
And then you talk to them abouttheir own life and oh, no, oh,
(15:09):
are you kidding me?
No, we love it in other people,we admire in other people.
When we have to make thedecision, we get afraid.
So I surround myself with peoplewhose job it is to be cautious.
Why my job is to be over thetop.
And so they're always saying,hey, slow it down.
But I'm pulling their brains,I'm pulling their mind, I'm
(15:30):
creating things that they didn'tthink was possible.
I tell everybody in our company,in one year you will not be
able to recognize this company,you will not be able to
recognize this company.
And they're like, yeah, I cansee that in the past, but not
this year.
Mariana, is it the same way?
(15:55):
It is larger than ever.
We are going from 25 differentplaces that we make here in
Mexico to one mega studio whichis the largest leather producing
factory in North America, wherewe control the leather, the
inventory, the storage, thecutting, the design, the
production, the logistics ofgetting our stuff to market in
Texas to be sold online,sometimes in six to eight days.
So that's a little differentthan ordering from China, where
(16:18):
you're talking.
I hope in five months peoplestill want this product, so if
they like something online, Ican literally refill that as
fast as it says.
Eric Eden (16:29):
So that's one of the biggest parts of being an
entrepreneur is, just like yousaid, figuring things out right.
Fall down seven times, get upeight times.
Curtis Matsko (16:37):
It's everything.
It's not part of it, it'severything.
You've got to figure it out.
No one else is going to do it.
You can't hire an expert.
They're not really experts,they really don't know what
they're doing.
You've got to figure it out.
It's up to you.
Eric Eden (16:50):
So what was the hardest thing about this journey
of building the company towhere it's at from your point of
view?
Curtis Matsko (16:59):
I don't know.
It's been pretty fun, Literally.
I started this in a garage andnow, Eric, I don't want you
glamorizing one of these Texasgarages.
This is Portland.
This was a single car garage,not one of those big ass five
car garages like they have.
And then we I always had to bethinking farther ahead than
everyone thought.
I look back and there were 10times where I could have made a
(17:23):
conservative decision oh, thatbuilding's too big, let's move
into the smaller one.
And then, if we need a biggerone, we move there.
Now, always, I look back.
That would have crushed us.
We would not have made it right, Because when you grow that
fast, you need to be way aheadof yourself right there.
What have I learned?
What I've learned is I'm evenbetter at judging people, and I
(17:44):
was pretty good at the verybeginning.
Ingrown talent is better thanoutside talent.
The woman who's our COO isstarted at $10 an hour,
part-time in our company.
The head of our marketing, whowill spend $40 million this year
, didn't go to college.
It was a photographer and cameinto work part-time, $12 an hour
(18:05):
and within two days of meetinghim, I'm like this guy's a
genius.
We taught him marketing, hetook off and now he's getting
offers for a million dollars ayear from other companies to go
to them and he's saying whywould I leave Curtis?
He's dumb enough to entrust mewith $40 million a year to spend
to learn what I'm doing.
So I brought the talent fromthe inside up.
Because you get good people,you trust them, you say I
(18:26):
believe in you, you let themlearn.
They're always going to bebetter than these outside folks.
Eric Eden (18:31):
You built great talent.
I love that.
That's really awesome, ratherthan just going out and trying
to pay for it.
Curtis Matsko (18:36):
I don't think I built it.
I showed them what they couldbe.
I believed in them.
They did a lot of thisthemselves.
Does that make sense?
They had that capacity.
They needed someone to say youcan do this and I believe in you
.
And they had doubts.
Many of my best employees.
Every three months they'll cometo me and have a breakdown and
say I've never done this before.
This is too much.
(18:57):
This is growing too fast.
And I'm saying remember whenyou said that three months ago
and six months ago and ninemonths ago you can do it.
And I give them a hug and sendthem back out and they're good
for three more months.
And then they look back andthey cannot believe how much
they've grown.
Eric Eden (19:13):
I love that.
It sounds like you're acomplete purveyor of chaos for
growth.
I love it.
Curtis Matsko (19:18):
Oh, mariana, do you like that?
A purveyor of chaos for growth.
That was actually the name ofmy, but I was going to call that
my new podcast that I'm goingto have Eric, I'll ask Jan when
I create my new podcast a greatconveyor of chaos for growth.
Eric Eden (19:35):
Can't wait.
So final words of advice forother entrepreneurs and
marketers.
They're probably not going intothe leather goods business but,
broadly speaking, if peoplewant to aspire to be remarkable
and create a hundred milliondollar business, largely driven
by marketing, like you have.
Beyond what you've alreadyshared, what additional words of
(19:57):
advice would you give?
Curtis Matsko (19:59):
I think that one of the main things and it's
something that people willforget, but remind yourself of
this once a week and it is weoften overestimate what we can
do in a year.
We underestimate what we can doin 10.
So this has been a longerjourney and everyone said could
you do it again?
Yes, could I do it faster?
Yes, were all the lessons thatI learned important?
(20:22):
Yes, I don't even know.
I was talking to employeesyesterday, eric and they were
trying to figure something outand my brain.
I explained how I figured thisout.
They're like, wow, that'sbrilliant.
I got that in 10 to 15 secondsright.
All those pieces came togetherbecause I have patterns and
history and other things that Idon't even know that I have
(20:43):
learned, that I was able to seethat and I'm shocked that they
can't see it.
It takes time Fight, go throughthe nights, go through the long
weekends, work it, celebratethe small wins, win, win, lose
and over time, you will beateverybody else out.
It's a long-term game.
Beat them over time, not in thenext week.
Eric Eden (21:05):
Great advice.
I love all of this andlistening to this episode it
reminds me of when I used towatch that TV show, mad Men, and
they were drinking and smokingduring the show.
After this episode I don't knowwhy, but right now I just have
a sudden urge to be around realleather and have the smell of it
.
It's just a mental cue hasfired for me.
(21:28):
So I hope everyone listeninghas that same feeling and goes
to Portland Leather Goods andchecks out some of the great
things you're doing.
I would encourage people ifthey would like to connect with
you and learn more.
I'll link to your LinkedInprofile in the show notes and
they can shoot you a note ifthey have a it's up in your
place, sarah.
Curtis Matsko (21:46):
Okay, actually, you said, hey, how are people
gonna communicate with you?
And I said the only real way isLinkedIn.
This is my personal assistant,mariana, hello, and we literally
do videos right here from myhouse, where I set my MacBook
down right here and I tell themwhat the hell I'm thinking in
that day, what I'm doing,problems, how we overcome them.
And we're actually doing thisthree, four or five times a week
(22:09):
as we create this company,because one of these episodes
that you do, eric, is great.
I'm trying to condense 10 yearsdown into this, but this is a
minute to minute, hour to hour,day to day thing.
So LinkedIn, curtis, matt's,goes the best way, and you may
not like what I say, but,mariana, I'm a genius.
Oh, she's a freaking genius.
Absolutely no, we have a lot offun doing these.
(22:32):
We have a lot of fun.
Eric Eden (22:34):
We appreciate you joining us today, spending the
time and sharing all these greatinsights and all these things
you've learned on your journey.
Insights and all these thingsyou've learned on your journey.
I think it is inspiring, sothank you very much for being
with us today.
We appreciate it Inspiring.
Curtis Matsko (22:46):
Yes, we are All right Love that.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.