January 20, 2025 • 21 mins
Join us as we sit down with Matt Heinz who turned a modest in-person gathering into a bustling peer network of 3,500 Chief Marketing Officers.
Experience the journey of these marketing leaders as they connect daily on Slack and share valuable insights during weekly Zoom meetings. Matt reveals the unique challenges that come with the marketing leadership role and the profound impact of engaging in a peer-to-peer environment.
In an era where marketing is constantly evolving, staying ahead of trends is crucial. As we peer into the future towards 2025, explore pressing topics like customer retention, the integration of all four Ps of marketing, and the transformative role of AI in reshaping the industry. Our discussion with Matt highlights the evolving responsibilities of the CMO and the power of leveraging community networks for success. We're reminded that collaboration often leads to the most informed decisions, even when you feel like you don't have all the answers. Tune in to gain exclusive insights into harnessing the power of community and improving your professional journey.
Connect with Matt on LinkedIn
Send us a Text Message, give feedback on the episode, suggest a guest or topic
Visit the Remarkable Marketing Podcast website to see all our episodes.
Visit the Remarkable Marketing Podcast on YouTube
Remarkable Marketing Podcast Highlights on Instagram
Eric Eden on LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:01):
Today we are talking about the power and impact of
professional communities, and wehave the perfect guest to help
us talk about it today MattHines.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks, eric.
So glad to be here by you justsharing a minute or two, a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do.
Matt Heinz (00:21):
Yeah, my name is Matt.
I've been doing B2B marketingforever.
I started Heinz Marketing about16 years ago and really help
companies sort of create morepredictable outcomes in complex
sales and buying situations andI'm just really excited and
proud of the work that we do.
Eric Eden (00:36):
Awesome and we're ready to be inspired, and I
think you have a prettyinspiring story about the
professional community thatyou've been creating, in
particular over the last fiveyears or so.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
Matt Heinz (00:54):
You know, pre-pandemic we were doing a
bunch of CMO breakfasts likein-person breakfasts around the
country, just getting CMOstogether to chat and network and
learn from each other.
And then during the pandemic,we kind of had to convert and
pivot that into an online thingand what started is just a
couple virtual breakfasts turnedinto this amazing community of
now about 3,500 CMOs and headsof marketing that connects with
(01:17):
each other literally every dayin a Slack community and meets
up every Friday morning in sometopical Zoom meetings.
So it's been amazing to be partof that ride over the last five
years with that community, butalso just very fortunate, very
grateful for the impact that itclearly is having, not only for
the members amongst themselvesbut also for the communities
(01:37):
around us as well.
Eric Eden (01:40):
And this is probably important because the chief
marketing officer role is notone of the easier roles in
corporate America.
Right, they probably need thecommunity more than other roles.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Matt Heinz (01:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the higher up you
get in your career, the morelikely you have a very lonely
role at the company you're atwhere not no one else really has
that job.
No one on your leadership teamsort of really fully understands
what goes into that job, and Ithink that's particularly acute
for chief market officers, chiefmarketing officers.
So having a community of peoplethat have been in the seat, are
(02:14):
in the seat, who understand theissues you're going through,
where you can get advice, bestpractices, benchmarks, but also
commiserate.
One of the most active channelsin the CMO community is the
Rantz channel and it's hilariousbut it's also cathartic, I
think, for a lot of CMOs thatneed a place to share.
We don't record the Fridaysessions.
We treat everything inside thecommunity as confidential to the
(02:37):
community, so people feel likeit's a safe place just with
their peers to be able to shareand learn, and we really treat
it as not just a community ofCMOs, it's about the peer person
in the CMO job.
So we talk about impostersyndrome, we talk about
caregiving of your aging parents.
There's a menopause channel,eric, in the CMO.
Eric Eden (02:57):
Coffee Talk group.
Matt Heinz (02:57):
I don't know how many professional communities
have a menopause channel.
I'm super proud that we've gota place where people with shared
life experiences can also sortof connect on things that aren't
just about the job as well.
Eric Eden (03:10):
So what's the hardest thing about building
this community over the yearsthat you faced?
Matt Heinz (03:17):
It's a great question.
I think that one of the hardestthings is keeping it truly peer
to peer.
You know, I think if you're ina CMO role you're busy.
You've got a lot of thingsdrawing your attention.
My focus in this community isnot about growing the volume of
people in it as much as it iskeeping and earning the
engagement of the people in it.
And I think that engagementcomes in not only having good
(03:39):
content and good conversations,but also ensuring that it is a
truly peer-to-peer conversation.
One of the hardest things to dois to not only maintain that
exclusivity and maintain thatnarrow focus on CMOs and heads
of marketing, but it's also hardto tell people they can't join.
You know well-meaning people,people that are earlier in their
career, people that you knowwant to engage in the community
(04:00):
but aren't CMOs.
People that are prospects ofHeinz Marketing as a consulting
practice that I don't want tosay no to but I still, to
protect the community, need todo it.
I see a lot of communities inthe market today that are kind
of glorified mailing lists thatI think have let in a little bit
of everybody as a means ofgrowing the community and saying
we've got more members.
But I think unless you keep ittight to a particular audience,
(04:23):
it's hard for people to reallytrust it and lean in.
And I think a key to oursuccess and longevity of the CMO
Coffee Talk community is trulykeeping it a peer-to-peer group.
Eric Eden (04:33):
Yeah, it's pretty easy for there to be drift in
terms of people who come in that, like you said, they're either
perhaps earlier in their careeror they're a supplier or a
vendor that wants to engage withCMOs, or sometimes even
different flavors of agenciesthat are really just different
(04:57):
flavors of suppliers or vendorsGood suppliers or vendors but it
makes it just a little bitawkward because they can't
really empathize in the same way, right, yeah?
Matt Heinz (05:35):
no-transcript.
We get business people learnabout what we do, but it's a
long game.
You can't treat this as apipeline builder.
You have to really lean in onthe true purpose and value of a
community and really build itthe right way.
Eric Eden (05:54):
I think keeping it qualified is not easy, like
you're saying, but I think thatdefinitely probably leads to the
success against the normalinstinct of try to make it
bigger, try to get more peopleinvolved.
If it's not quality it doesn'tmatter, so that's a good tip
(06:29):
no-transcript.
Matt Heinz (06:32):
I'm really proud of One is something we call CMOs
Give Back and for the last fouryears we've run a number of
fundraising initiatives in thecommunity to raise money for
worthwhile causes and, as werecord this, we've got one in
partnership with the AmericanRed Cross to raise money for
those affected by the LAwildfires.
Over the course of the lastfour years we've generated
(06:53):
almost $100,000 in funds for awide variety of domestic and
international groups and I thinkthat community is not just
about the people in thecommunity but it's about
leveraging that opportunity tosupport those around us, and so
I'm really proud of what thecommunity has done to support
that.
I would say there's an awfullot of work in the community to
(07:13):
help people sort of in theircareers.
There's a CM interviewsprovides encouragement along the
job search process.
I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of the fact that thecommunity created a kind of
ground crowdsource, somethingcalled great people now
available that are a bunch ofvouch for people.
That, especially over the lastcouple of years, as some
(07:35):
companies had to let people go,let good people go in a bit of
an economic downturn, theycreated a single resources for
say like hey, listen, here's thepeople we had to let go.
That are amazing and a lot ofpeople found jobs more quickly
because of that.
So and then you know you've got, like you mentioned, they've
got the menopause channel.
There's a caregiver channel forthose that are sort of
increasingly having to care forthose elderly parents or elderly
family members.
You know the rants channel isnot just sort of funny, it's
(07:57):
also people that can just sortof it's a place to lot off steam
and to sort of not be superfiltered, but no, it's kind of a
safe place to go and do that.
So to be able to support peoplein their career, to be able to
support people through lifestages that they're going
through, and then to be able tohave an impact on the
communities in need around ushas been really, really
(08:19):
rewarding, to be honest, forbeing part of the community.
Eric Eden (08:23):
That's great, and do the members in the community
also share some of the successesthey have?
They do some celebratingsuccess together.
Matt Heinz (08:34):
Yeah, so I am part of a group called the
Entrepreneur Association EO forshort and we meet in small
groups, you know, in differentmarkets, and one of the things
in EO we talk about is 5% 5%shares.
And so what that means is whatare the things that are the
bottom 5% and the top 5% of?
And so what that means is whatare the things that are the
bottom 5% and the top 5% of yourlife?
Bottom 5% are like gnarlyissues that you're probably not
(08:55):
posting on LinkedIn, but youneed a trusted group to go over
and be able to share, and we seesome 5% stuff occasionally in
the CMO coffee talk group.
But then there's the top 5%that you're really proud of and
really excited about.
That, in certain contexts, mightcome across as bragging, might
come across as like well, you'rebeing arrogant, you're being
bragging.
You're sort of talking aboutyou need a place to be able to
(09:17):
celebrate that, like in amongstpeers.
It's a great place to do it.
So we have a celebrationchannel you got a new job, your
company exited, you were able toexercise some options, like
you've worked your butt off, youcontinue to be a hardworking
person.
Have a place amongst your peersto be able to celebrate those
things in context of that group.
(09:39):
And so, yeah, I mean I thinkyou know I'm proud that this is
a group and there's people inthe group that feel like they
can bring up bottom 5%, thatfeel like they have a place to
share and really celebratetogether the top 5% of things
happening at work as well as intheir lives.
Eric Eden (09:56):
I think it's just been rough out there for the
last couple of years betweensome of the macro economic
issues and then, before that,covid.
I think there's a lot of caseswhere people professionally
don't get much recognition.
They work really hard, they digin and there's not a lot of
recognition or winning awards orpeople patting them on the back
(10:19):
and it's like you know, I seepeople and they're like you know
.
I just did my hundredth podcastepisode.
Or we just got our YouTubechannel to 100,000 subscribers
and we worked for years on it.
There should be a place forpeople to sort of celebrate
those sorts of wins when you'vesort of gone through the mud to
(10:41):
get there, if you will.
Matt Heinz (10:42):
Well, and even things that sort of might make
most sense in context of a peergroup.
Right To be able to say I justgot through a board meeting and
I got an attaboy from one of ourboard members who never
comments on things or who alwaysis critical or who always asks
really hard questions, butrecognize the momentum and
progress we've made.
Even things like that amongstother CMOs that grind through
(11:04):
board meetings and leadershippresentations on a regular basis
.
Those things are important aswell, and to be able to share
that and then to see otherpeople give you a high five or
say, hey, that's amazing, greatwork, I know you're working hard
.
I mean that's community, right?
A community is people that aretogether, that are supportive of
each other and lean in for eachother on a regular basis.
Eric Eden (11:23):
Absolutely.
And so, with this reallyawesome group of qualified
people coming together, reallyawesome group of qualified
people coming together, whatsort of marketing trends are
coming out of the group as wecome into 2025?
Anything notable.
That is a standout thing thatthey're all focused on talking
(11:44):
about.
Matt Heinz (11:45):
Yeah, I think that there's a couple of things.
One is a renewed focus oncustomer retention, customer
marketing, net retention as wellas upsell and cross-sell.
So where we've had this reallygreat discipline effort around
driving net new pipeline and topline growth from a net new
customer standpoint, some ofthat discipline is now being put
into the customer marketingside and really thinking about
(12:09):
then CS and account managers aspartners for the way we've
integrated with, you know, thesales teams.
Moving in the past, so excitedto see that is one thing Seeing
a lot more marketers sort ofreclaim all four Ps instead of
just promotion, right.
So for marketers that areeither rebranding themselves as
the chief market officer tothink about the market as a
whole or those that are simplystarting to sort of think about
(12:31):
product market fit as a corecomponent of what the CMO
manages.
The example I give of that isoftentimes the sales team says
they want leads.
Well, leads is a manifestation.
Leads is a evidence of what thesales team really needs, which
is a market that craves whatthey're buying.
Right, and creating a marketthat craves what you're buying
is more than just sending outoffers for white papers and
(12:52):
webinars.
It's building a product andhoning a product and positioning
a product that meets that needit's a combination of brand and
demand out in the marketplace.
So repositioning what thatmeans.
As companies sort of reemergefrom wherever we've been the
last year and a half and startto grow in a more substantial
way, I'm seeing more and moremarketers embrace that more
(13:14):
traditional role of notmarketing as a verb but market
as a noun verve, but market as anoun.
Eric Eden (13:26):
I think the role is fluid, in some ways evolving.
One of those ways is probablyalso, I think, back to being
that I'm very old, like olderthan the internet.
I think back to the internetdays and how marketing was very
different after the internetbecame well-adopted than before.
And I have that feeling, sortof about AI.
We're still in the adoptionphase, but I have this feeling
(13:49):
that we're entering sort of anew era that's just going to be
different.
It's interesting that we'reentering a new sort of era, if
you will.
Do you think that's the case?
Matt Heinz (14:01):
I do, I do, but I think, if we separate marketing
the verb from marketing the noun, I think the way that we market
, the channels and vehiclesthrough which we market, how we
collect and leverage information, that continues to change.
But those are vehicles that areimpacting and influencing the
market right, and I think, ifyou look across these different
(14:22):
phases, we'll see with AI.
But as you look across thedigital phase, the internet
phase, the mobile, the growth ofmobile, there's some
commonality in terms of how thebuying journey works.
There's commonalities in termsof how people buy.
There's commonalities in termsof psychology, of needs and
wants that exists at theconsumer as well as the B2B
level.
And you know, foundationally,still to this day and it worked
(14:47):
40 years ago and it worked 15years ago when I started and it
works today.
It's like who are you sellingto and how do you define that
subset of a subset of a market?
Who are the people that areinvolved in transaction?
What are the things that theycare about?
What does their buying journeylook like?
Whether you use AI or theinternet or mobile or magic
dragons to market to them is anoutput of how well you know your
(15:07):
market and how well you knowyour buyer right and so those
fundamentals I think areconstant.
I think AI is going torevolutionize how we build that
and how we manage that, but thatfundamental is going to stay.
Eric Eden (15:19):
I think this sort of highlights the importance of
being a part of a professionalgroup for successful and
ambitious executives, becauseyou sort of have to know is it
just something that's happeningto you like an outlier, or is
this something that's happeningacross companies, across the
(15:40):
industry?
I think you have the benefitwhen you're in a professional
group of knowing what thingsmight be an isolated issue
versus like, well, this is thetrend.
I was sitting in a board meetingfor one company and they were
discussing the issue of how thecost of AI is more expensive
(16:05):
than the benefit of the use casein integrating the AI into
their platform.
Yeah, and the one investor saidoh well, this is a scenario
we're seeing across a lot of ourcompanies, that it's not just
that they did something wronghere, this AI integration can be
very expensive.
Wrong here, this AI integrationcan be very expensive.
(16:27):
And so if you don't have a usecase that can afford it, it
doesn't make sense.
And I think the insight thatthat was happening across
companies is hard for a lot ofexecutives to come across, and I
think being in groups likeyours, where CMOs can trade
notes, is a great way for themto get these things, because
things are just, I don't know.
(16:48):
It seems like changing rapidly.
I don't know if they alwayschange just rapidly, but it
feels like the change of pace isincreasing.
Matt Heinz (16:56):
I think that it has innovation paradox that Pascal
Fennett, who's a futuristsomewhere in the Denver area,
talks about.
He says, like the innovationthat happened in the past now
appears far more normalized.
It appears far slower than itactually was.
The innovation we're facingmoving forward appears steeper
and faster than it will actuallymaterialize.
(17:17):
And I think if we think abouteverything from I mean you think
about how revolutionary thisphone is right and all the
things it can do and just 15years ago it didn't exist.
Now we just take it for grantedand all the things that we
think AI is going to do movingforward it's going to be
revolutionary too, buteventually we'll take that for
granted as well.
When you're faced with that kindof technology and those kind of
sort of disruptive events intechnology, it's more than just
(17:38):
how do I use it, how do Ibenefit from it.
There's also become sort ofthis existential am I going to
understand it?
Is the world going to pass meby?
Am I going to become a dinosaurin my industry?
I feel a little guilt for notbeing fully on top of this and
fully understanding it, becauseI'm just trying to get through
my day and get through my joband so I share all these
perspectives, because I've seenversions of all of that in the
CMO group as well.
(17:59):
Right and so to have a placewhere you can share ideas, you
can share experiments, you canshare like in a company a few
weeks ago say, we're getting 18%of net new pipeline from AI,
from AI agents, like so theywalk through how to do that,
that's great.
And then other people sayinglike I feel like a failure
because I feel like I don'tunderstand this well enough and
I feel like it's moving reallyquickly, like where else can you
(18:19):
have that conversation than ina trusted place?
The other example I'll give you,eric, is we did a couple of
years ago a session on impostersyndrome and we had an expert
come in that's written quite abit about it to present and at
one point she said show of hands, like who in the room feels
like they have imposter syndrome.
And like 94% of people raisedtheir hand and I'm convinced to
this day that the other 6% werejust multitasking and didn't
(18:41):
hear the question.
And afterward I literally had ahandful of people say like I
thought it was just me.
I assumed that I was in thevast minority of people at our
level and in our roles that feelthis way and they're like no,
clearly it's literally everybody, so it doesn't solve the
problem.
But to know that it is not justyou, to know that it's not a
problem with you, can make avery big difference in your
(19:03):
ability to manage it and getthrough it.
Eric Eden (19:06):
Absolutely so.
If people want to learn moreabout the group, how can they do
that?
Matt Heinz (19:13):
Just give me a call.
You can contact me.
We're just at HeinzMarketingcom.
I'm Matt M-A-T-T atHeinzMarketingcom.
If you're a B2B CMO or a headof marketing, vp or above, and
you're interested in a communitylike this, just shoot me an
email.
I'll hook you up.
I think you mentioned the ideaof sort of things moving more
quickly, moving forward.
Find the people you trustaround you that have a passion
(19:35):
for the experimentation side ofthat.
We are still very much inexperimentation land with AI.
There are a few things that arestarting to land that are
repeatable, programmatic, thatyou can apply, and the rules of
those are going to change aswell.
Don't assume that you have togo and figure it all out
yourself.
Find people in your community.
Find people in your network.
Find people on your team thatare passionate about doing that.
(19:55):
Use your skills and yourexpertise and your experience to
discern what's best to moveforward with and be comfortable
not knowing everything.
You're not going to be able tolearn everything.
You're not going to knoweverything, but you know more
than you think you do right now.
So make the best decisions youcan.
Eric Eden (20:12):
Great advice.
Well, thank you very much forbeing with us today and sharing
your story and this advice, Muchappreciated.
I'm going to link to yourwebsite and your LinkedIn so
people can get in touch if theywould like to learn more.
And thanks for being with ustoday.
Hey, thanks so much, eric.
I appreciate it.
Today we are talking about the power and impact of
professional communities, and wehave the perfect guest to help
us talk about it today MattHines.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks, eric.
So glad to be here by you justsharing a minute or two, a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do.
Matt Heinz (00:21):
Yeah, my name is Matt.
I've been doing B2B marketingforever.
I started Heinz Marketing about16 years ago and really help
companies sort of create morepredictable outcomes in complex
sales and buying situations andI'm just really excited and
proud of the work that we do.
Eric Eden (00:36):
Awesome and we're ready to be inspired, and I
think you have a prettyinspiring story about the
professional community thatyou've been creating, in
particular over the last fiveyears or so.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about it?
Matt Heinz (00:54):
You know, pre-pandemic we were doing a
bunch of CMO breakfasts likein-person breakfasts around the
country, just getting CMOstogether to chat and network and
learn from each other.
And then during the pandemic,we kind of had to convert and
pivot that into an online thingand what started is just a
couple virtual breakfasts turnedinto this amazing community of
now about 3,500 CMOs and headsof marketing that connects with
(01:17):
each other literally every dayin a Slack community and meets
up every Friday morning in sometopical Zoom meetings.
So it's been amazing to be partof that ride over the last five
years with that community, butalso just very fortunate, very
grateful for the impact that itclearly is having, not only for
the members amongst themselvesbut also for the communities
(01:37):
around us as well.
Eric Eden (01:40):
And this is probably important because the chief
marketing officer role is notone of the easier roles in
corporate America.
Right, they probably need thecommunity more than other roles.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Matt Heinz (01:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the higher up you
get in your career, the morelikely you have a very lonely
role at the company you're atwhere not no one else really has
that job.
No one on your leadership teamsort of really fully understands
what goes into that job, and Ithink that's particularly acute
for chief market officers, chiefmarketing officers.
So having a community of peoplethat have been in the seat, are
(02:14):
in the seat, who understand theissues you're going through,
where you can get advice, bestpractices, benchmarks, but also
commiserate.
One of the most active channelsin the CMO community is the
Rantz channel and it's hilariousbut it's also cathartic, I
think, for a lot of CMOs thatneed a place to share.
We don't record the Fridaysessions.
We treat everything inside thecommunity as confidential to the
(02:37):
community, so people feel likeit's a safe place just with
their peers to be able to shareand learn, and we really treat
it as not just a community ofCMOs, it's about the peer person
in the CMO job.
So we talk about impostersyndrome, we talk about
caregiving of your aging parents.
There's a menopause channel,eric, in the CMO.
Eric Eden (02:57):
Coffee Talk group.
Matt Heinz (02:57):
I don't know how many professional communities
have a menopause channel.
I'm super proud that we've gota place where people with shared
life experiences can also sortof connect on things that aren't
just about the job as well.
Eric Eden (03:10):
So what's the hardest thing about building
this community over the yearsthat you faced?
Matt Heinz (03:17):
It's a great question.
I think that one of the hardestthings is keeping it truly peer
to peer.
You know, I think if you're ina CMO role you're busy.
You've got a lot of thingsdrawing your attention.
My focus in this community isnot about growing the volume of
people in it as much as it iskeeping and earning the
engagement of the people in it.
And I think that engagementcomes in not only having good
(03:39):
content and good conversations,but also ensuring that it is a
truly peer-to-peer conversation.
One of the hardest things to dois to not only maintain that
exclusivity and maintain thatnarrow focus on CMOs and heads
of marketing, but it's also hardto tell people they can't join.
You know well-meaning people,people that are earlier in their
career, people that you knowwant to engage in the community
(04:00):
but aren't CMOs.
People that are prospects ofHeinz Marketing as a consulting
practice that I don't want tosay no to but I still, to
protect the community, need todo it.
I see a lot of communities inthe market today that are kind
of glorified mailing lists thatI think have let in a little bit
of everybody as a means ofgrowing the community and saying
we've got more members.
But I think unless you keep ittight to a particular audience,
(04:23):
it's hard for people to reallytrust it and lean in.
And I think a key to oursuccess and longevity of the CMO
Coffee Talk community is trulykeeping it a peer-to-peer group.
Eric Eden (04:33):
Yeah, it's pretty easy for there to be drift in
terms of people who come in that, like you said, they're either
perhaps earlier in their careeror they're a supplier or a
vendor that wants to engage withCMOs, or sometimes even
different flavors of agenciesthat are really just different
(04:57):
flavors of suppliers or vendorsGood suppliers or vendors but it
makes it just a little bitawkward because they can't
really empathize in the same way, right, yeah?
Matt Heinz (05:35):
no-transcript.
We get business people learnabout what we do, but it's a
long game.
You can't treat this as apipeline builder.
You have to really lean in onthe true purpose and value of a
community and really build itthe right way.
Eric Eden (05:54):
I think keeping it qualified is not easy, like
you're saying, but I think thatdefinitely probably leads to the
success against the normalinstinct of try to make it
bigger, try to get more peopleinvolved.
If it's not quality it doesn'tmatter, so that's a good tip
(06:29):
no-transcript.
Matt Heinz (06:32):
I'm really proud of One is something we call CMOs
Give Back and for the last fouryears we've run a number of
fundraising initiatives in thecommunity to raise money for
worthwhile causes and, as werecord this, we've got one in
partnership with the AmericanRed Cross to raise money for
those affected by the LAwildfires.
Over the course of the lastfour years we've generated
(06:53):
almost $100,000 in funds for awide variety of domestic and
international groups and I thinkthat community is not just
about the people in thecommunity but it's about
leveraging that opportunity tosupport those around us, and so
I'm really proud of what thecommunity has done to support
that.
I would say there's an awfullot of work in the community to
(07:13):
help people sort of in theircareers.
There's a CM interviewsprovides encouragement along the
job search process.
I'm proud of that.
I'm proud of the fact that thecommunity created a kind of
ground crowdsource, somethingcalled great people now
available that are a bunch ofvouch for people.
That, especially over the lastcouple of years, as some
(07:35):
companies had to let people go,let good people go in a bit of
an economic downturn, theycreated a single resources for
say like hey, listen, here's thepeople we had to let go.
That are amazing and a lot ofpeople found jobs more quickly
because of that.
So and then you know you've got, like you mentioned, they've
got the menopause channel.
There's a caregiver channel forthose that are sort of
increasingly having to care forthose elderly parents or elderly
family members.
You know the rants channel isnot just sort of funny, it's
(07:57):
also people that can just sortof it's a place to lot off steam
and to sort of not be superfiltered, but no, it's kind of a
safe place to go and do that.
So to be able to support peoplein their career, to be able to
support people through lifestages that they're going
through, and then to be able tohave an impact on the
communities in need around ushas been really, really
(08:19):
rewarding, to be honest, forbeing part of the community.
Eric Eden (08:23):
That's great, and do the members in the community
also share some of the successesthey have?
They do some celebratingsuccess together.
Matt Heinz (08:34):
Yeah, so I am part of a group called the
Entrepreneur Association EO forshort and we meet in small
groups, you know, in differentmarkets, and one of the things
in EO we talk about is 5% 5%shares.
And so what that means is whatare the things that are the
bottom 5% and the top 5% of?
And so what that means is whatare the things that are the
bottom 5% and the top 5% of yourlife?
Bottom 5% are like gnarlyissues that you're probably not
(08:55):
posting on LinkedIn, but youneed a trusted group to go over
and be able to share, and we seesome 5% stuff occasionally in
the CMO coffee talk group.
But then there's the top 5%that you're really proud of and
really excited about.
That, in certain contexts, mightcome across as bragging, might
come across as like well, you'rebeing arrogant, you're being
bragging.
You're sort of talking aboutyou need a place to be able to
(09:17):
celebrate that, like in amongstpeers.
It's a great place to do it.
So we have a celebrationchannel you got a new job, your
company exited, you were able toexercise some options, like
you've worked your butt off, youcontinue to be a hardworking
person.
Have a place amongst your peersto be able to celebrate those
things in context of that group.
(09:39):
And so, yeah, I mean I thinkyou know I'm proud that this is
a group and there's people inthe group that feel like they
can bring up bottom 5%, thatfeel like they have a place to
share and really celebratetogether the top 5% of things
happening at work as well as intheir lives.
Eric Eden (09:56):
I think it's just been rough out there for the
last couple of years betweensome of the macro economic
issues and then, before that,covid.
I think there's a lot of caseswhere people professionally
don't get much recognition.
They work really hard, they digin and there's not a lot of
recognition or winning awards orpeople patting them on the back
(10:19):
and it's like you know, I seepeople and they're like you know
.
I just did my hundredth podcastepisode.
Or we just got our YouTubechannel to 100,000 subscribers
and we worked for years on it.
There should be a place forpeople to sort of celebrate
those sorts of wins when you'vesort of gone through the mud to
(10:41):
get there, if you will.
Matt Heinz (10:42):
Well, and even things that sort of might make
most sense in context of a peergroup.
Right To be able to say I justgot through a board meeting and
I got an attaboy from one of ourboard members who never
comments on things or who alwaysis critical or who always asks
really hard questions, butrecognize the momentum and
progress we've made.
Even things like that amongstother CMOs that grind through
(11:04):
board meetings and leadershippresentations on a regular basis
.
Those things are important aswell, and to be able to share
that and then to see otherpeople give you a high five or
say, hey, that's amazing, greatwork, I know you're working hard
.
I mean that's community, right?
A community is people that aretogether, that are supportive of
each other and lean in for eachother on a regular basis.
Eric Eden (11:23):
Absolutely.
And so, with this reallyawesome group of qualified
people coming together, reallyawesome group of qualified
people coming together, whatsort of marketing trends are
coming out of the group as wecome into 2025?
Anything notable.
That is a standout thing thatthey're all focused on talking
(11:44):
about.
Matt Heinz (11:45):
Yeah, I think that there's a couple of things.
One is a renewed focus oncustomer retention, customer
marketing, net retention as wellas upsell and cross-sell.
So where we've had this reallygreat discipline effort around
driving net new pipeline and topline growth from a net new
customer standpoint, some ofthat discipline is now being put
into the customer marketingside and really thinking about
(12:09):
then CS and account managers aspartners for the way we've
integrated with, you know, thesales teams.
Moving in the past, so excitedto see that is one thing Seeing
a lot more marketers sort ofreclaim all four Ps instead of
just promotion, right.
So for marketers that areeither rebranding themselves as
the chief market officer tothink about the market as a
whole or those that are simplystarting to sort of think about
(12:31):
product market fit as a corecomponent of what the CMO
manages.
The example I give of that isoftentimes the sales team says
they want leads.
Well, leads is a manifestation.
Leads is a evidence of what thesales team really needs, which
is a market that craves whatthey're buying.
Right, and creating a marketthat craves what you're buying
is more than just sending outoffers for white papers and
(12:52):
webinars.
It's building a product andhoning a product and positioning
a product that meets that needit's a combination of brand and
demand out in the marketplace.
So repositioning what thatmeans.
As companies sort of reemergefrom wherever we've been the
last year and a half and startto grow in a more substantial
way, I'm seeing more and moremarketers embrace that more
(13:14):
traditional role of notmarketing as a verb but market
as a noun verve, but market as anoun.
Eric Eden (13:26):
I think the role is fluid, in some ways evolving.
One of those ways is probablyalso, I think, back to being
that I'm very old, like olderthan the internet.
I think back to the internetdays and how marketing was very
different after the internetbecame well-adopted than before.
And I have that feeling, sortof about AI.
We're still in the adoptionphase, but I have this feeling
(13:49):
that we're entering sort of anew era that's just going to be
different.
It's interesting that we'reentering a new sort of era, if
you will.
Do you think that's the case?
Matt Heinz (14:01):
I do, I do, but I think, if we separate marketing
the verb from marketing the noun, I think the way that we market
, the channels and vehiclesthrough which we market, how we
collect and leverage information, that continues to change.
But those are vehicles that areimpacting and influencing the
market right, and I think, ifyou look across these different
(14:22):
phases, we'll see with AI.
But as you look across thedigital phase, the internet
phase, the mobile, the growth ofmobile, there's some
commonality in terms of how thebuying journey works.
There's commonalities in termsof how people buy.
There's commonalities in termsof psychology, of needs and
wants that exists at theconsumer as well as the B2B
level.
And you know, foundationally,still to this day and it worked
(14:47):
40 years ago and it worked 15years ago when I started and it
works today.
It's like who are you sellingto and how do you define that
subset of a subset of a market?
Who are the people that areinvolved in transaction?
What are the things that theycare about?
What does their buying journeylook like?
Whether you use AI or theinternet or mobile or magic
dragons to market to them is anoutput of how well you know your
(15:07):
market and how well you knowyour buyer right and so those
fundamentals I think areconstant.
I think AI is going torevolutionize how we build that
and how we manage that, but thatfundamental is going to stay.
Eric Eden (15:19):
I think this sort of highlights the importance of
being a part of a professionalgroup for successful and
ambitious executives, becauseyou sort of have to know is it
just something that's happeningto you like an outlier, or is
this something that's happeningacross companies, across the
(15:40):
industry?
I think you have the benefitwhen you're in a professional
group of knowing what thingsmight be an isolated issue
versus like, well, this is thetrend.
I was sitting in a board meetingfor one company and they were
discussing the issue of how thecost of AI is more expensive
(16:05):
than the benefit of the use casein integrating the AI into
their platform.
Yeah, and the one investor saidoh well, this is a scenario
we're seeing across a lot of ourcompanies, that it's not just
that they did something wronghere, this AI integration can be
very expensive.
Wrong here, this AI integrationcan be very expensive.
(16:27):
And so if you don't have a usecase that can afford it, it
doesn't make sense.
And I think the insight thatthat was happening across
companies is hard for a lot ofexecutives to come across, and I
think being in groups likeyours, where CMOs can trade
notes, is a great way for themto get these things, because
things are just, I don't know.
(16:48):
It seems like changing rapidly.
I don't know if they alwayschange just rapidly, but it
feels like the change of pace isincreasing.
Matt Heinz (16:56):
I think that it has innovation paradox that Pascal
Fennett, who's a futuristsomewhere in the Denver area,
talks about.
He says, like the innovationthat happened in the past now
appears far more normalized.
It appears far slower than itactually was.
The innovation we're facingmoving forward appears steeper
and faster than it will actuallymaterialize.
(17:17):
And I think if we think abouteverything from I mean you think
about how revolutionary thisphone is right and all the
things it can do and just 15years ago it didn't exist.
Now we just take it for grantedand all the things that we
think AI is going to do movingforward it's going to be
revolutionary too, buteventually we'll take that for
granted as well.
When you're faced with that kindof technology and those kind of
sort of disruptive events intechnology, it's more than just
(17:38):
how do I use it, how do Ibenefit from it.
There's also become sort ofthis existential am I going to
understand it?
Is the world going to pass meby?
Am I going to become a dinosaurin my industry?
I feel a little guilt for notbeing fully on top of this and
fully understanding it, becauseI'm just trying to get through
my day and get through my joband so I share all these
perspectives, because I've seenversions of all of that in the
CMO group as well.
(17:59):
Right and so to have a placewhere you can share ideas, you
can share experiments, you canshare like in a company a few
weeks ago say, we're getting 18%of net new pipeline from AI,
from AI agents, like so theywalk through how to do that,
that's great.
And then other people sayinglike I feel like a failure
because I feel like I don'tunderstand this well enough and
I feel like it's moving reallyquickly, like where else can you
(18:19):
have that conversation than ina trusted place?
The other example I'll give you,eric, is we did a couple of
years ago a session on impostersyndrome and we had an expert
come in that's written quite abit about it to present and at
one point she said show of hands, like who in the room feels
like they have imposter syndrome.
And like 94% of people raisedtheir hand and I'm convinced to
this day that the other 6% werejust multitasking and didn't
(18:41):
hear the question.
And afterward I literally had ahandful of people say like I
thought it was just me.
I assumed that I was in thevast minority of people at our
level and in our roles that feelthis way and they're like no,
clearly it's literally everybody, so it doesn't solve the
problem.
But to know that it is not justyou, to know that it's not a
problem with you, can make avery big difference in your
(19:03):
ability to manage it and getthrough it.
Eric Eden (19:06):
Absolutely so.
If people want to learn moreabout the group, how can they do
that?
Matt Heinz (19:13):
Just give me a call.
You can contact me.
We're just at HeinzMarketingcom.
I'm Matt M-A-T-T atHeinzMarketingcom.
If you're a B2B CMO or a headof marketing, vp or above, and
you're interested in a communitylike this, just shoot me an
email.
I'll hook you up.
I think you mentioned the ideaof sort of things moving more
quickly, moving forward.
Find the people you trustaround you that have a passion
(19:35):
for the experimentation side ofthat.
We are still very much inexperimentation land with AI.
There are a few things that arestarting to land that are
repeatable, programmatic, thatyou can apply, and the rules of
those are going to change aswell.
Don't assume that you have togo and figure it all out
yourself.
Find people in your community.
Find people in your network.
Find people on your team thatare passionate about doing that.
(19:55):
Use your skills and yourexpertise and your experience to
discern what's best to moveforward with and be comfortable
not knowing everything.
You're not going to be able tolearn everything.
You're not going to knoweverything, but you know more
than you think you do right now.
So make the best decisions youcan.
Eric Eden (20:12):
Great advice.
Well, thank you very much forbeing with us today and sharing
your story and this advice, Muchappreciated.
I'm going to link to yourwebsite and your LinkedIn so
people can get in touch if theywould like to learn more.
And thanks for being with ustoday.
Hey, thanks so much, eric.
I appreciate it.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com