December 29, 2024 • 42 mins
Today we discuss new approaches to getting over a billion dollars in sales as we welcome Marc Von Musser, a seasoned sales and marketing expert with an impressive track record, including his time as the director of coaching and sales training for Tony Robbins. Marc shares his groundbreaking strategies for organic marketing and reveals how he managed to outpace giants like Zillow and Realtor.com. Through compelling narratives inspired by historic leaders, Mark emphasizes the importance of a powerful marketing message in today's changing landscape, where consumers are more skeptical and cautious.
Explore the transformative potential of authentic communication in the evolving world of marketing. This episode sheds light on how podcasting is emerging as a potent medium for reaching audiences with genuine voices, even more impactful than traditional media. Drawing from examples of public figures, we discuss the power of unscripted and direct interactions, advocating for a shift from self-serving narratives to client-focused dialogues that build trust and widen reach.
Lastly, we delve into the deeply personal side of sales, emphasizing the role of self-love and meaningful connections. Through Marc's inspiring stories and advice, we highlight the vital importance of recognizing one's inherent value and the positive impact of reaching out to others. Whether it's enhancing client relationships or reducing cancellations, Marc's insights offer a blueprint for aligning with clients' dreams and aspirations, paving the way for both personal and professional success.
Check out Marc's book
Get Booked & Get Paid: How To Generate 6 Figures+ A Year, Through Podcast Guesting
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:01):
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we have an amazing topicit's the secrets behind doing
over a billion dollars in highticket sales and we have the
perfect guest to help us talkthrough this.
Mark.
Welcome to the show.
Marc Von Musser (00:16):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
This is going to be a fun topic.
Eric Eden (00:20):
So why don't we start off by you taking just a
minute or two to talk a littlebit about who you are and what
you do?
Marc Von Musser (00:26):
Sure, well, thanks for the opportunity.
First and foremost so longstory short, the one that most
people seem to resonate with Iwas the director of coaching and
sales training for Tony Robbinsfor many years and helped him
add a lot of zeros to his bottomline, and I did that as well.
Before that.
I also trained realtors andshowed them how to get 30
(00:47):
listings in 30 days, essentiallypredominantly with organic, and
so part of that.
This was pretty funny, but backin the day, I'd get phone calls
from the big aggregate leadaggregate companies like
realtorcom, zillow, trulia.
What they didn't know, though,is I was arguably one of the
only people in the entire UnitedStates that actually outranked
them on their own sites.
(01:08):
So if you go back in the dayCarlsbad Real Estate for sale,
carlsbad Home for sale, sanDiego Pool Home for sale, any of
those I had eight of the top 10Google search words for
anything, and then on page twoand three, you'd find realtorcom
, zillowcom, et cetera, andthey'd always call and try and
get me to sign up, and I said,well, why would I sign up with
(01:29):
you guys?
I'm outranking you in every,every category?
And they'd say, oh, that that'sweird.
How'd this happen?
So my whole background.
Going all the way back was outof necessity, and underneath
that, I was able to develop somestrategies that are very, very
creative, unique for marketing,and the vehicle of marketing is
(01:51):
secondary to the truth of themarketing message, and this is
really what we refined sales atClients on Demand, and we were
the leader in online ticketsales for high ticket.
So we would teach coaches,consultants, speakers, experts
on how to build a seven-figure,six or seven-figure online
(02:18):
business, and we started lookingat the results we were getting
by.
This was essentially paidFacebook ads, and then it was
paid Facebook or YouTube ads,then TikTok, instagram, et
cetera, and our clients did overa billion dollars in sales, and
so it gave me a very uniqueperspective to see what works
and what doesn't in terms ofmarketing, where the vehicle is
critically important, make nomistake, but if you have the
(02:40):
wrong message, it doesn't matterwhat your platform is.
And if you think about it, eric, martin Luther King we all know
about MLK, and the question Ialways ask is what was his
marketing strategy, what was hisfunnel?
And this kind of sums it up itwas the truth.
He was so convicted, he was socongruent, he was so in
(03:02):
alignment with the truth that hewanted to speak, even in the
face of countless media, and sothat's the sort of thing that I
would love to chat about today,because there's some new
vehicles that are opportunitiesfor anybody out there, that are
essentially free marketing, andif you get your message dialed
in, you can have huge worldwide,global impact almost
(03:22):
immediately, and you can havehuge worldwide global impact
almost immediately.
Eric Eden (03:25):
That's super interesting.
We're ready to be inspired.
Why don't we jump in and youtell us a little bit about how
you've been able to do some ofthese remarkable things?
Marc Von Musser (03:35):
Sure, so part of this is another librarian
kind of opinion, so I personallyhad a belief that the buyer of
today is different than thebuyer was a decade ago or two, I
hear of today is more jaded,more guarded and just
incessantly slammed withrequests for your attention, and
your wallet Doesn't matter ifit's email, it doesn't matter if
(03:56):
it's the phone, it doesn'tmatter, it's texting emails,
billboards, magazine ads.
You know it's completelychanged.
So now the buyer's developingall of these buyer defenses.
We have do not call lists, wehave blocking services, we have
different ways so that we don'thave to answer the phone.
We have a call screening.
(04:16):
If you remember, when we werekids, we didn't have that.
The phone rang, you picked itup, and so what's happened,
though, is the buyers havegotten very, very creative about
what they're going to listen toand give attention to, and if
the marketers don't understandthat, they can spend a fortune,
but they're not going to gettheir attention, and so, right
(04:38):
now, that's the level one.
Level two is the economy.
Whenever, if you go back to anyrecession, any type of economy,
the more uncertain the buyergets.
There's certain countermeasuresyou need to give the new buyer
to address their uncertainty andtheir fear in the marketplace.
So that's a big part of what wedid and how we were able to do
(04:59):
it.
We did all of that underneathand this is one of my core
principles that I teach in SalesAlchemy, which is a course I
use to teach people how toenroll.
I tell them to stop selling andstart enrolling clients in
their dream.
Now this was a complete shift,and this is what we taught to
thousands of business ownersthat if you will align and help
(05:22):
them solve their problems, youwill never have a shortage of
clients.
That's completely differentthan features and benefits
marketing, and so this was atrait that we taught over and
over again to attorneys, totherapists, to coaches, to
consultants, and a couple ofthings popped up.
Number one, the enrollmentswent through the roof.
(05:43):
Number two, the cancellationsand the refund requests
plummeted literally from anindustry norm of 40% to 3%.
The third thing that happenedis that people were saying thank
you for taking their money andhelping them, so it really spoke
to the individual, where theyfelt proud of what they're doing
.
They were excited and all of asudden, they were excited to
(06:03):
serve the client.
So it elevates humanity and thebuyers want this type of
standard in today's market.
So that's really a key thatcame out was people are tired of
being closed, they're tired ofthe pressure selling, they're
tired of the manipulation andthis includes marketing, by the
way.
So what's working right now isa heart-driven approach which
(06:25):
honors both parties, whichelevates the conversation and is
really a decision.
Can I help you?
So let's get real clear onwhat's the what's the problem
and whether or not I'm the bestsolution.
So that's a that's like thecore of all the marketing that
we've done.
Eric Eden (06:40):
That makes sense.
I think people want to get awayfrom the buzzword bingo and
from being qualified in thesales process.
I think people want to get awayfrom the buzzword bingo and
from being qualified in thesales process.
I think people can appreciatethe fact that people are going
through a structured salesprocess, but it doesn't feel
very great.
So I think the truth drivenmore, how can I help you
(07:02):
approach?
It makes logical sense thatthat would resonate more with
people because so many peoplethe saturation of people doing
like these structured sort ofsales plays.
So can you share an example ofhow you put this to work with
with one of your clients?
Marc Von Musser (07:20):
Yeah, there's, there's tons.
Well, there I'll give you two.
One of my first ones was atherapist, right, she was a
75-year-old woman who I'm prettyhigh energy, right.
Well, doctor, was more of thiskind of energy.
And well, Mark, it's not asmuch fun.
(07:43):
Well, let's just put it thisway.
I haven't had an objection inalmost three months and
everybody just buys and it'slike I'm not selling anymore at
all.
I just help people and they allwant to sign up.
And it was so funny becausewhen I started with Dr Deb, she
was not that person at all.
She hated sales, she did notlike that part of it and she was
(08:03):
a therapist, so she was used tothe insurance kind of money
level.
And then she's jumping into a$10,000 program.
And that's how quickly you cantake a good human being that has
a heart of service and showthem how to do very, very well.
That's the first step.
Second one, let's tell you, isabout a friend of mine and a
person that I co-wrote a bookcalled Get Booked and Get Paid
(08:25):
about podcast guesting.
So this was interesting.
So this person is very muchlike I'm high energy and he's
even higher energy, right, andhe had his own mastermind he was
doing very well, severalmillion dollars a year and he
had essentially a coup withinthe mastermind where people
thought they could do it better.
(08:45):
So behind his back, his entiremastermind left and it imploded
right.
The guy that was the new zealotcouldn't deliver on anything.
He said he was a con man and sothe thing evaporated.
But he lost half a milliondollars like that.
The other one is he was doingthe paid traffic model where he
was spending about $30,000 amonth, but so was everyone else,
(09:06):
and Russell Brunson withClickFunnels was telling
everybody just copy what works.
Hundreds of thousands of peopleare jumping into the arena,
eating up the space, competingfor the same ads, etc.
So he's in trouble, he's out ofmoney and he's like I can't
afford $30,000 a month for thepaid traffic.
He goes, I've got to recoup.
(09:27):
I goes, I, I'm starting fromscratch.
So one of the things I do whenmarketing it's different.
It's almost like a conciergekind of process.
I first look at what's the goal.
Number two is what do we haveto work with?
Do you have a big budget?
No budget, okay.
Number three do you solve areal problem?
Can we articulate that problemin an effective way to get in
(09:47):
front of ideal clients, and ifthose are yeses, then we can
help you.
So I did the same process withNikki and, sure enough, I
decided well, let's do podcastguesting.
And he already had one of thebiggest podcasts in North
America.
It's called E-Circle a thoughtleader revolution, right?
His book was recently endorsedby Donald Trump.
It's called E-Circle A ThoughtLeader Revolution, right?
His book was recently endorsedby Donald Trump.
(10:08):
He's done a bunch.
I think he has two New YorkTimes bestsellers, so he had a
pretty big podcast, but heneeded to monetize, and so one
of the things that we did was Ishowed him how to articulate his
message in a way that left thehost and the audience salivating
.
Now here's what's great In thenext two years, working about
(10:29):
five to eight hours a week usingpodcast guesting, he earned
about $500,000 net commissions.
Just a nip under that, I thinkit was like $480,000 or
something like that.
The difference was he did notspend any money on marketing.
The difference was he did notspend any money on marketing and
out of that, his message now isout in front of 4 million
people.
(10:49):
So while he's playing with hiskids, his message is out there
and being listened to by up to 4million people Because, as you
know, with podcasting, being agreat guest is a key Knowing how
to speak articulately and beable to speak something that
leads to further, becausepodcast guests are where people
want to be.
It's arguably the mostunderutilized, highest
(11:12):
opportunity vehicle that existstoday.
It's something I'm very excitedabout.
Eric Eden (11:16):
I think for 2025,.
Podcasting is really breakingout as a channel.
I see stats that now people areeven watching podcasts on
YouTube on their TV like 400million people a month.
It's amazing the reach that ithas, because people want to
search and find these veryinteresting topics to get
(11:41):
content on, and it's a muchbetter way than reading blog
posts, which is what people weredoing like five, 10 years ago.
Right, it's a much moreengaging way to get information.
So that makes a lot of sense.
But I think what about being apodcast guest is the key in
terms of the messaging, like youwere saying to, to get people
(12:02):
salivating and wanting more.
Marc Von Musser (12:03):
There's a couple of things.
Number one is it has to betruthful, right.
So here's one of the thingsthat's kind of happening is the
core landscape of business andpolitics and et cetera.
The age of transparency is uponus.
So, for example, if you're apiece of you know what and
you're not a kind person andyou're a scumbag and you're that
kind of person, it's going toget exposed in today's world.
(12:25):
If you don't believe me, golook at Hollywood, go look at
the politicians.
They're getting exposed leftand right for who they really
are.
Now that leaves a void in thespace.
What's going to fill it?
I firmly believe, are theleaders of tomorrow be the most
aligned, congruent and willingto serve their fellow man.
So what people are yearning foris help, and so what they're
(12:46):
yearning for are people that aregonna really be able to deliver
.
So, to answer your questionabout messaging, it needs to be
client-focused, not self-focused.
That's number one.
Number two, it needs to begenuine Meaning.
There's a saying that we had incoaching people don't take diet
advice from the fat guy, okay.
Well, it's the same thing here.
(13:06):
Does it really hold up?
Does this strategy really work?
I'll give you an example.
In the world of marketing.
There was a person who wasadvertising how he's doing
almost a million and a half amonth.
Okay, that sounds impressive.
Right, that's very smallpercentage.
What he omitted from theconversation was he was spending
(13:27):
a million dollars a month onads.
Now, that's relative and that'sthat's important, because if
you don't have the ability tospend a million dollars of ads,
he would make about five to700,000 on the front end.
So he's still a deficit of halfa million.
He would then upsell like crazyto try and get to that 1.1, 1.2
.
So he's spending almost amillion dollars to make a
(13:48):
hundred to 200,000.
Well, that's good for him, butthe problem is he's selling an
illusion to people that don'thave a million dollars to play
with.
So those types of people he'sout of business today, by the
way.
So in shifted gears.
But that kind of nonsense wasnormal in online marketing.
People were losing money andthey're saying, oh yeah, one
(14:08):
person, for example, copied ourwebsite.
I don't care if you like ElonMusk or like him or hate him,
it's irrelevant.
The one thing these people haveis they're going to speak their
truth.
Regardless Like it or not, hisbase is going to be activated.
The second piece of this is thatthey can defend.
You might not agree with them,but I always do this on both
(14:31):
sides of the aisle.
It cracks me up because theliberals get all pissed off and
then the Republicans get pissedoff if I say the other side.
It's not about that.
It's about why is it?
In a world that has 400 pluscongressmen, we only know a
handful.
If I want to talk about andshe'll speak out boldly both
sides are doing that.
Those are the only names thatwe remember.
And so, in terms of messaging,what is your truth?
(14:55):
How well can you articulate it?
How well can you defend it?
How many ways can you explainit and when you get that?
That's the key to being a greathost, because people just want
to know where you stand and itcracks me up.
There's been so many.
I've studied politics forprobably 40 years, maybe 50.
But I remember watching Kamalaand, again, love her, hate her,
(15:19):
don't matter when she was askeda direct question this is
important for podcasting too.
I don't know if you saw this.
They asked her a question howare you going to fix inflation?
Very direct question.
Right Now it's scripted.
She should have had the answerand she instead dodges and
dashes around it.
I was born in a middle-classfamily.
We had lawns and everybody'slike wait what Now?
(15:42):
Compare that to Trump.
Trump was willing to do a threehour podcast on Joe Rogan and
answer any question.
Whether you like him or not,that was more powerful than
traditional marketing and media.
Let me give you some specifics.
Kamala had raised $1.425billion.
That's a lot of money formarketing.
(16:03):
Number two she also had thebenefit of a mainstream
marketing media, traditionalmedia.
Estimates on that have beenapproximately $6 to $10 billion.
To get that amount of favorablepress, trump raised $400
million.
He also had 97% negativeattacks from traditional media.
(16:24):
You get this.
He's a billion dollars down infundraising and remember it was
always about who could raise themost money.
A billion dollars.
Now she did traditional media.
He did podcasting.
He was on podcasts.
He had 200 million listenersbetween X interview Joe Rogan.
I don't even know all the guyshe did, but he had 200 million
(16:48):
people who he could get hismarketing message directly to
people on the fence, which washis ideal client the undecided
voter.
That's why he won.
Kamala had every advantagegoing in her way.
She still lost because she wasonly talking to her existing
type clientele.
So even here, the marketing wasapplicable and it gets down to
(17:11):
your authentic voice.
Give you one more point, andthis was also true with Hillary,
or Kamala Did you ever see howmany focus groups Hillary
Clinton would use before shewould take a position on a
subject?
Eric Eden (17:28):
No, I didn't see that, but I know she did it
Approximately 10 focus groups.
Marc Von Musser (17:33):
Before she was for gay marriage or against gay
marriage, before she was formeat eating or pro vegan, it was
always done.
So what that does to the buyer,the person that's going to vote
, is they're not sure where shestands, so they're left to go
ahead and create their ownidentity.
Now let's take by comparisonTrump.
He did a lot of marketingbrilliance.
(17:55):
We're going to build a wall andMexico is going to pay for it.
Right, it's going to be abeautiful wall.
I mean, what does that evenmean?
We don't even know.
But it was like, wow, we'regoing to drain the swamp.
Well, who doesn't want to draina swamp?
We didn't know what that meant,but the difference was in a
direct message that he woulddefend and repeat overly versus.
And then the people that votedfor him are like, yeah, that's
(18:17):
what we want.
And if you think aboutmarketing, it's the same thing.
Is your message a generic whitebread mayonnaise message that's
trying to appeal to everybody,or is it directly for your ideal
client?
Are you really truly speakingto their pain points, their
fears, their desires?
And when you get that, you havea powerful message.
Eric Eden (18:39):
So is there a difference between people being
purposely controversial versusspeaking the truth to get
notoriety?
Marc Von Musser (18:50):
Great question, and so the shock factors there,
and you can go back to theshock jocks that used to do that
, right?
I've heard this even about AlexJones, where, when he got sued
by his wife, they got divorced,and he was basically saying he
didn't believe anything.
He said it was for shock value.
That's pretty consistent with alot of these people, right?
I've heard this from bothliberal commentators and
(19:10):
conservative commentators, wherethey don't really believe what
they're saying, but they theirviewers want to hear it.
Now, the problem with that isthat's why these guys are
getting, one by one, gettingknocked off off TV, and so
what's happening is you'reabsolutely correct People are
not even responding to the shockjocks like they used to be.
Remember when?
What's his name?
Who's the guy in New York city?
(19:30):
Howard Stern.
Howard Stern was the like oneof the original shock jocks,
right?
He was one of the front ofeverybody's conversations, and
not anymore, because everybodykind of figured out his shtick.
What you're noticing, though,is that the people that truly
believe in what they believethey're going to have more
impact than the people doing itfor shock value.
Shock value will still work toa degree, but it seems to me
(19:56):
like, behind the scenes, God orthe universe, is exposing people
for who they really are.
So it just seems, one by one,the shock jocks and the people
that were doing it for shockvalue.
There's another.
Let me flip the switch too,because this is something else
that I see.
You bring up a great point.
The other thing I see is peopleare using words like service,
care, love your neighbor, andthey don't believe it at all.
(20:18):
You know what I mean.
You can just kind of resonateand tell this guy's a scumbag.
This guy here is not a goodperson, but he's on stage
talking about how you got toserve your client and he's on
stage talking about how you gotto serve your client and
meanwhile he's cussing andcondemning him backstage.
But what I've noticed is peopleare using those.
It seems to me like they'regetting exposed for who they
really are.
(20:38):
And the other thing that I'vesaid and this is something about
why I believe heart-drivenselling is the way to sell
moving forward For most of thesales trainers that I've studied
over the decades because Istarted when I was probably 10,
selling candy and newspapersdoor to door so one of the
things that's happened is Istarted to notice that the more
(20:59):
pressure and the moremanipulatable used.
It went hand in hand with thedrug addiction, alcoholism,
miserable life, obesity,sickness, illness, heart attacks
.
Life, obesity, sickness,illness, heart attacks is good
at its core and if you abuseother people you can't do
anything but try and shove thatdown with alcohol and drugs.
I don't think.
If you think about the wolf onwall street as an example, his
(21:21):
drug addiction and alcoholismwas not an excuse.
It was trying to cover up thelies he was telling people,
because that doesn't feel goodto be a blatant liar.
And so part of it again, toyour point, a shock jock that's
doing it for clicks.
I think that that's going tohave a similar effect as to
these guys that were lyingblatantly to get a sale.
Eric Eden (21:42):
Yeah, I think that's super interesting because
either being controversial forthe sake of being controversial
or just saying something as alie because you know that it
would get a lot of trafficultimately doesn't work.
I think the people that havethe most success truly believe
(22:03):
what they're saying, and I'lljust use Trump as the example,
because I think he's had a lotof success in it recently.
Doing this, it's like, eventhough he says some really wild
stuff, the reality is that youprobably don't doubt that he
really believes it.
He's not reading a script.
It doesn't sound like buzzwordbingo, correct.
(22:25):
Even people who disagree witheverything he says would say I
think he really believes that.
Marc Von Musser (22:31):
Yeah, so let me , let me he says it with such
conviction right.
This is really funny because Iget it when we're talking about
the crazy 2am tweets, 3am tweets, right.
So this is funny.
One of the guys that I coachednow is doing 10,000 unit
apartment buildings.
The guy makes a ton of money incommercial real estate.
Well, one of his best friendswas George Ross, the attorney
(22:56):
for Donald Trump, and he said,yeah, I'm going to see George.
Who's the attorney on theApprentice?
The older guy, the really smartguy.
Well, he's done over $250million of his own business.
He has a net worth of like aquarter of a billion dollars.
He's never done a deal withTrump.
He was Trump's advisor andattorney, right, and he sat next
to him in the Apprentice.
So I asked him.
I said, hey, do me a favor, justbecause I want to know, ask
Trump why he does the crazytweets, right, that are like
(23:19):
what dude, what the hell, what'sthis about?
Guess what?
I talked to George and again hesaid it drove him crazy.
So he asked George Trump'sattorney, and he said at first,
for years, he said it drove himcrazy because he did that in the
meetings too.
He dropped a bomb on the otherpeople and now it's all chaos,
(23:41):
right.
But what George noticed Georgesaid something was that it was a
power move for him to gaincontrol of the conversation.
So let's walk this through.
Secondly, he said he hadincredibly great instincts.
So 95% of the time he was right.
But he was crass or blunt inthe way he would go at it.
Right, but what he noticed andI saw the genius of this in
(24:03):
politics he's going into anarena where he's an outsider.
They hate him.
Okay, he's not part of the DCestablishment, he's not part of
the big banking system, he's notpart of the big pharma.
He's getting no support fromthe power brokers.
That be.
He comes in the media isimmediately trashing him like
crazy.
What does he do?
Crazy tweets and he takes thenarrative away.
(24:25):
And now they're talking aboutthat.
And over here he did somethingelse.
And every time I watched a 3 amtweet I started to look at what
was he really trying to do?
And then the other thing thatwas really funny was to his
second point, george, is that95% of the time he was right.
So if you remember Trump in theway he would do, it would be
(24:47):
pretty blunt.
He'd say you know, and they'respying on me and everybody, in
the way he would do.
It would be pretty blunt.
He'd say you know, and they'respying on me and everybody in
the media said, oh, he's crazy,he's this, he's this, he's this,
he's this, he's this.
Five years later it came outthey were spying on him.
He was absolutely right and itwas like he has been vindicated
over and over again repeatedlybecause he kind of knows it but
(25:08):
he is not a politician and he'sdoing a lot of those things.
But I was like, okay, that'spretty interesting.
And he now talks about theweave, which is pretty hard to
follow, where he'll weave aroundabout 20 subjects and then come
back.
But I always looked at politicsand any of this as a marketing
game.
I always look at who is havingan effective message, who is
effective Okay, I'll give youanother example.
(25:29):
Okay, having an effectivemessage.
Who is effective Okay, I'llgive you another example.
Okay, bill Clinton has nochance in hell.
Bill Clinton cannot beat thenumber one highest rated
approved president in history,george Bush.
Senior.
Coming out of a wartime victory, it was so overwhelming that
none of the power Democrats weregoing to run for office Okay,
none of them.
And George Bush had the highestapproval rating.
(25:52):
No president has ever lost asecond term.
Coming out of a wartime victory,bill Clinton enters the arena
from some little hick towncalled Arkansas, which I love,
by the way.
I'm just joking.
This was the comments peoplewere making about Bill.
He was a successful governor,he had a lot of great success.
He had a lot of drama andtrauma as well.
But he comes out, a no name,from a small town, a small state
(26:17):
in Southern America, arkansas,and he destroys George Bush
senior.
How does that happen?
Because he was so good at hismessaging and controlling his
narrative.
George Bush got on defense andnever came back, even though
George Bush Sr had everyadvantage in his favor, clinton
(26:37):
wiped the floor with him.
So that's the kind of stuffthat I'd say is to look at the
higher thing about how arethings happening, to move the
needle, because it also isapplicable in business and sales
as well.
But yeah, it was pretty funny,man.
I remember that was arguablyone of the best campaigns before
Obama.
Obama had a great campaign too,but Clinton had one of the best
(27:00):
campaigns I have ever seenbecause he controlled the
narrative and it was brilliant.
To watch how he controllednarratives and talking points
was mind boggling.
Eric Eden (27:10):
Yeah, yeah, he has a lot of charisma.
So I think one of the thingsthat you're saying is is that,
thematically, is a lot of theexamples support the fact that
going the standard route ofadvertising and marketing
(27:32):
standard route of advertisingand marketing In particular, you
were giving examples about howGoogle advertising and
pay-per-click is just sosaturated and it's hard to
really win there when it's socompetitive.
I mean I've seen keywords thatare $40 a click on LinkedIn for
competitive campaigns.
I mean it's just reallyexpensive.
When you do the backwards math,like you're saying, yeah, as
opposed to where a lot of peopleseem to be winning is more
(27:57):
having this truthful, heartfeltmessaging in organic channels
like podcasting, where you cango out and you're not paying for
clicks, you have a strongmessage that draws people in.
Is that really the moral of thestory of how marketing is
shifting?
Marc Von Musser (28:18):
It really is.
Because if you step back, eric,think about it.
How do you want to be sold to?
Do you want a pressure closer,who's giving you a 10th of the
information, telling you justwhat you want to hear?
Or do you want somebody thatsays, hey, eric, let's figure
out what you want with yourbusiness, let's have a real
conversation.
Hey, based on what you'retelling me, here's what you
could do.
This is some solutions.
(28:39):
I've seen work here, here andhere and here I'm happy to help
you if you'd like some help, andthat's what most people are
gravitating to.
And so the other part, too, isthere's something else you
talked about too, which istiming.
If you think about marketing,every marketing method has a
window of opportunity.
Right, you have your blue ocean.
(28:59):
Then you get eventually to yourred ocean, where everybody's
just killing everybody.
So let's go back to I go allthe way back.
I remember when, if you wantedto make money in real estate,
all you had to do was get awebsite.
If you had a website, you wereconsidered an established
realtor, right, cause nobody hada website At first, it was a
webpage.
I've got a website, I've gotmultiple pages on my site, so
(29:19):
therefore, I'm better than youand it was funny because then
that migrated into.
I started back with Corey Rudellback in the day about the
original guy to do pop-ups andonline marketing.
Corey Rudell, he's a legend inthe industry.
This was before Yannick Silverand even Dan Kennedy started on
online and Corey didcarsecretscom.
He did the special report, afree report.
(29:42):
You do it and he'd tell you howto basically get your car for
tens of thousands of less thanwhat the sticker was.
It was brilliant and so thatworked really well until it
stopped because everybodystarted doing the free reports.
Then Craig Craig quantummarketing, craig Proctor did it
in real estate, made $3 milliona year in real estate selling
that with direct responsemarketing, and then that stopped
(30:03):
working.
And then we moved into blogs.
Blogging took a lot of time andif you had a blog you got
traction, you could get clients.
Everybody started blogging.
It stopped working.
Then it was launches JeffWalker, marie Forleo.
They started the launches andat first, at the very beginning,
it worked really well.
But then there's thousands ofpeople trying to launch and it
(30:24):
stopped working.
And that's when the low ticketcame out.
That started to work.
But then everybody did that.
We did high ticket straight to$10,000 offer, example, and that
worked really well untilRussell Brunson and a few others
started saying, hey, just copywhat works.
So everybody copied it.
All the ads look the same,everybody's language was the
same and now you couldn't tellwho was real and who wasn't.
(30:45):
So that stopped working.
Meanwhile, ios 14 happened andthey changed the algorithms.
So it was one of those thingswhere you have to find a new way
.
So, as the vehicles change, howmuch can you hear the audience,
how much can you hear whattheir needs really are and can
you find platforms to getdirectly to them?
(31:06):
Because here's the good news,and can you find platforms to
get directly to them?
Because here's the good newsthere has never been a better
time ever in history where, ifan authentic, truthful message
can go worldwide like that, youhave more power in a cell phone
today than the Kings had ahundred years ago.
You have access to every bit ofinformation, everything that
(31:27):
you need to know right now, andeven right now, if you've got a
cell phone and a message, youcould start having impact, and I
always look, I'm looking to seewho's blowing up right.
And again to your earlierunderlying point most of these
people are not 100% accurate.
The vegans are going to screamveganism is the only way until
they find out they don't.
(31:47):
Now they're secretly non-vegan,but they're still making money
selling the vegan illusion.
The carnivore same thingCarnivore is the best way.
And then, privately, they'renot doing it, and so there's a
lot of that happening.
But I want to watch who'sblowing up, and by that I mean
in a good way, and how congruentare they to their messaging and
Are they to their messaging?
And that's really the key.
And underneath everything isyou've got to serve your fellow
(32:09):
man with everything you are.
If you do that, you'll standout on any platform and any
market.
That's what I'm noticing.
Is that's what's really what'sworking?
Eric Eden (32:20):
That makes a lot of sense that that is what's
working.
Is there anything else that youlearned in your experience
helping Tony Robbins make somuch money?
That would be helpful to peoplewho want to follow your advice
and go down this path.
Marc Von Musser (32:41):
Yes, I would say trust yourself.
And here's what I mean by that.
When I started training, thesales were not where they wanted
it to be, and I was asked totrain some of the sales teams
for Tony's teams.
So I went in and looked at whatthey're doing.
Okay, they got lazy by sellingon Tony's name.
Okay, tony told me this and hey, eric, you need to do this.
(33:01):
Tony's going to talk about that.
Hey, me and Tony were talking,and you know what I mean.
They were leveraging therelationship with Tony.
It's called posture associationselling.
Right Now, that will be certainlevel of effective.
How did I take him and growevery department by 300%?
What I did was I got them tostop selling on Tony's name and
start selling you on youroutcome.
(33:23):
So this is what it sounded like.
I'd say hey Eric, let's jump ona call to figure out what's
going on with your business.
If it was a business event,let's find out what's going on
in your business, let's figureout what you're looking for and
see if we have some solutions.
And no matter what, I'll getyou clarity and you're going to
know what you need to do foryour next steps, right?
So who doesn't want to figureout what there is.
So then we'd talk and I toldthe guys stop selling the event
(33:47):
and start selling the outcome.
So here's what happened.
So all of a sudden, these guyswere getting on the phone and
everybody starts buying theirtickets to these $10,000 events.
And they were getting greatresults, because the focus of
the conversation was tell meabout your business, what's not
working, let's fix it.
The seminar Now here's where thepeople got in trouble.
Some of the people would putthem in the seminar even if they
(34:14):
didn't need it.
That now is a break ofintegrity.
That is a break of spirituallaw.
Those guys would all of asudden get exposed.
The people would be unhappy.
But if they would just steerthem to coaching you don't need
a business right now, you need acoach to help get you going and
they started to steer towhatever served the client.
Now here's the backend is theystarted getting referral sales,
which they never got.
And there was one other personthat I trained and he outsold
(34:36):
the other five guys combined bya level of three to one.
What we did was is he got onand he told me the bullshit
pitch that they told him to use.
You know, tony put his armaround me and said you're the
best guy and everybody here.
And so one of the things thathappened is I was asking him I
said how do you feel when you dothat, lee?
And he said I feel like I'm aliar.
And I said do you think that wepick up on those inner
(35:00):
dialogues?
And we absolutely do.
I said tell me why you're here,why are you working for Tony?
And, holy crap, did he come outwith some passion.
It was inspiring, it was real.
I said this is your new pitch.
Okay, I said this is what Iwant you to share with everyone
you talk to.
And I said Lee, do you want tolearn how to get it?
Get 15 tickets in a room of 10people?
(35:21):
He goes you can't.
We only need to get 10%.
I said I know it's not aboutgetting 10%, it's about finding
15 people to inspire and help.
So he goes.
Well, let's do it.
So the standard was 10% of aroom.
I showed him how to get 100% to150% at times and the
difference.
I said the alphas, the peopleyou really want, are not in the
(35:43):
room waiting for a free seminar.
They're out there making dealshappen.
But they have friends in theroom and if you're as good as I
think you are, they're going tocall their friends.
And now, all of a sudden,you're getting additional
tickets.
That's exactly what happened.
So he started going out thereand started speaking about his
passion and about what'sstopping you guys, and started
speaking with this eloquence andthis authenticity.
(36:05):
All of a sudden, he outsold theother five guys in this
authenticity.
All of a sudden, he outsold theother five guys, three to one
combined, meaning all of theirsales.
He 300X their sales and heloved it.
He had passion, he was feelingin alignment, and that's really
what you're going to need to doin any business.
Marketing method will comesecondary to how connected you
(36:26):
are to your real truth.
And don't just parrot.
This is one of the things Itell people.
Don't just parrot what soundsgood.
That's another trap.
Know what you know and believeit, and that's really a key,
because if you know it and youcan defend it, you can back it
up and it's not just theoreticaltheory that you heard once and
you can make money on it.
You'll have a depth ofconviction and people are
(36:48):
energetic beings.
They're picking up on the truthright now and they're going to
continue to do that.
They can kind of sniff fraud.
There was a person that we weretrying to help and when I
interviewed the people watchinghis webinars words like creepy,
desperate, scammer those werewhat he was projecting and
that's a big reason why he losthis business, because that's
(37:10):
what he was projecting.
People kind of pick up on it.
They just can't put theirfinger on it.
And the opposite is also truewhen somebody else is out there
speaking with a passion that'sunfiltered, like you said,
unfiltered raw, but it's realand you know this is what they
believe.
You'll listen.
That's what has to happen ifpeople want to thrive in today's
market.
Eric Eden (37:30):
I think that's great advice.
You can't really fake passion,right?
That's something, I thinkthat's really hard to fake, and
I think when people try to go tothings that are not true
because they're following somekind of a playbook oh I need to
say this or do it this way itdoes set off sort of those
(37:52):
alarms or the spidey sense ofpeople, Even if they can't put
their exact finger on it.
It's easy to default to notbuying and not doing anything,
and so I think that's fantasticadvice.
Is there anything else youwanted to share here that we
didn't cover?
Marc Von Musser (38:13):
I would just say, guys that start thinking
this is something we taught alot and this is something that
has really made a big differenceis that we are all everybody
listening.
This is part of a blessedminority in the world.
If you look at the rest of theworld, the rest of the world
wishes they had our challengesand could swap places with us,
(38:34):
but with that comes aresponsibility.
What I believe needs to happenis all of us collectively start
by loving yourself.
Okay, god doesn't make junk.
He didn't start with you, andpart of it is to look past.
Maybe you don't have yourbillion dollars, maybe you don't
have your jet.
Maybe you don't have yourFerrari.
Maybe you don't have that.
Don't have your billion dollars.
Maybe you don't have your jet,maybe you don't have your
Ferrari.
Maybe you don't have that.
But get back to the fact you'rea human being.
(38:55):
Start with that truth, right.
You matter to somebody, you aresomebody's hero, and that could
be your mom, that could be yoursister, that could be a friend.
Start by understanding that,that you matter, because you can
only give away that, what youhave for yourself.
So if you're filled withself-loathing and inadequacy,
that's what you're going to see.
There was a saying that wetalked about hurt people hurt
people.
Well, let's flip it.
Healed people can heal people,people that use business to make
(39:18):
the world a better place.
I'd rather those people startto win.
I'd rather those be the leadersof tomorrow.
Where I go and if I want tolearn how to, for example let's
say I want to learn how to singI want to learn how to, for
example, let's say I want tolearn how to sing, I want to go
to a guy who's going to be therein my corner that's going to
help me do it.
I don't want some guy just totake my money and not return my
emails.
So everybody out there, we havea choice.
(39:44):
Just because it's been donealways a certain way Doesn't
mean we have to play that game,and I proved that with Tony.
I proved that at clients ondemand.
I proved that repeatedly.
Think outside of the box.
Everything that I've noticed isworking is when you love on
yourself and then you love onfellow human beings.
That is more powerful than themost powerful marketing platform
there is, and if you can dothat, you're going to wake up
proud of who you are.
You're going to be a better mom, a better father, you're going
(40:05):
to be a better human being.
And collectively, the world ishurting.
We need more people to step upand speak this truth and I want
to see one day a world where thepeople coming behind us Eric, I
want them to look up and going,wow, that guy's kind of a jerk,
but that guy he's fricking,loving life.
Look at how many people are andI want to show them an
alternative that you don't haveto lie, you don't have to
(40:27):
manipulate, you don't have towithhold the facts.
Speak your truth and servepeople and watch what happens.
The money follows service andI'd say, if the people out there
, collectively, we don't have toplay the game the way it's
always been played.
I'd say let's innovate andlet's serve.
Eric Eden (40:44):
Awesome.
Thank you for sharing theseinsights, stories and advice.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you for your time andbeing on the show today.
I'm going to link to yourwebsite and your LinkedIn so
people can get in touch andcontinue the conversation if
they'd like to do so.
Really appreciate you beinghere today having me and
(41:08):
everybody out there.
Marc Von Musser (41:09):
Thanks for listening.
And again, remember God doesn'tmake junk.
He didn't start with you, so goahead and love yourself and
also reach out until one persontoday.
They matter, it does make adifference, guys, big love.
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we have an amazing topicit's the secrets behind doing
over a billion dollars in highticket sales and we have the
perfect guest to help us talkthrough this.
Mark.
Welcome to the show.
Marc Von Musser (00:16):
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
This is going to be a fun topic.
Eric Eden (00:20):
So why don't we start off by you taking just a
minute or two to talk a littlebit about who you are and what
you do?
Marc Von Musser (00:26):
Sure, well, thanks for the opportunity.
First and foremost so longstory short, the one that most
people seem to resonate with Iwas the director of coaching and
sales training for Tony Robbinsfor many years and helped him
add a lot of zeros to his bottomline, and I did that as well.
Before that.
I also trained realtors andshowed them how to get 30
(00:47):
listings in 30 days, essentiallypredominantly with organic, and
so part of that.
This was pretty funny, but backin the day, I'd get phone calls
from the big aggregate leadaggregate companies like
realtorcom, zillow, trulia.
What they didn't know, though,is I was arguably one of the
only people in the entire UnitedStates that actually outranked
them on their own sites.
(01:08):
So if you go back in the dayCarlsbad Real Estate for sale,
carlsbad Home for sale, sanDiego Pool Home for sale, any of
those I had eight of the top 10Google search words for
anything, and then on page twoand three, you'd find realtorcom
, zillowcom, et cetera, andthey'd always call and try and
get me to sign up, and I said,well, why would I sign up with
(01:29):
you guys?
I'm outranking you in every,every category?
And they'd say, oh, that that'sweird.
How'd this happen?
So my whole background.
Going all the way back was outof necessity, and underneath
that, I was able to develop somestrategies that are very, very
creative, unique for marketing,and the vehicle of marketing is
(01:51):
secondary to the truth of themarketing message, and this is
really what we refined sales atClients on Demand, and we were
the leader in online ticketsales for high ticket.
So we would teach coaches,consultants, speakers, experts
on how to build a seven-figure,six or seven-figure online
(02:18):
business, and we started lookingat the results we were getting
by.
This was essentially paidFacebook ads, and then it was
paid Facebook or YouTube ads,then TikTok, instagram, et
cetera, and our clients did overa billion dollars in sales, and
so it gave me a very uniqueperspective to see what works
and what doesn't in terms ofmarketing, where the vehicle is
critically important, make nomistake, but if you have the
(02:40):
wrong message, it doesn't matterwhat your platform is.
And if you think about it, eric, martin Luther King we all know
about MLK, and the question Ialways ask is what was his
marketing strategy, what was hisfunnel?
And this kind of sums it up itwas the truth.
He was so convicted, he was socongruent, he was so in
(03:02):
alignment with the truth that hewanted to speak, even in the
face of countless media, and sothat's the sort of thing that I
would love to chat about today,because there's some new
vehicles that are opportunitiesfor anybody out there, that are
essentially free marketing, andif you get your message dialed
in, you can have huge worldwide,global impact almost
(03:22):
immediately, and you can havehuge worldwide global impact
almost immediately.
Eric Eden (03:25):
That's super interesting.
We're ready to be inspired.
Why don't we jump in and youtell us a little bit about how
you've been able to do some ofthese remarkable things?
Marc Von Musser (03:35):
Sure, so part of this is another librarian
kind of opinion, so I personallyhad a belief that the buyer of
today is different than thebuyer was a decade ago or two, I
hear of today is more jaded,more guarded and just
incessantly slammed withrequests for your attention, and
your wallet Doesn't matter ifit's email, it doesn't matter if
(03:56):
it's the phone, it doesn'tmatter, it's texting emails,
billboards, magazine ads.
You know it's completelychanged.
So now the buyer's developingall of these buyer defenses.
We have do not call lists, wehave blocking services, we have
different ways so that we don'thave to answer the phone.
We have a call screening.
(04:16):
If you remember, when we werekids, we didn't have that.
The phone rang, you picked itup, and so what's happened,
though, is the buyers havegotten very, very creative about
what they're going to listen toand give attention to, and if
the marketers don't understandthat, they can spend a fortune,
but they're not going to gettheir attention, and so, right
(04:38):
now, that's the level one.
Level two is the economy.
Whenever, if you go back to anyrecession, any type of economy,
the more uncertain the buyergets.
There's certain countermeasuresyou need to give the new buyer
to address their uncertainty andtheir fear in the marketplace.
So that's a big part of what wedid and how we were able to do
(04:59):
it.
We did all of that underneathand this is one of my core
principles that I teach in SalesAlchemy, which is a course I
use to teach people how toenroll.
I tell them to stop selling andstart enrolling clients in
their dream.
Now this was a complete shift,and this is what we taught to
thousands of business ownersthat if you will align and help
(05:22):
them solve their problems, youwill never have a shortage of
clients.
That's completely differentthan features and benefits
marketing, and so this was atrait that we taught over and
over again to attorneys, totherapists, to coaches, to
consultants, and a couple ofthings popped up.
Number one, the enrollmentswent through the roof.
(05:43):
Number two, the cancellationsand the refund requests
plummeted literally from anindustry norm of 40% to 3%.
The third thing that happenedis that people were saying thank
you for taking their money andhelping them, so it really spoke
to the individual, where theyfelt proud of what they're doing
.
They were excited and all of asudden, they were excited to
(06:03):
serve the client.
So it elevates humanity and thebuyers want this type of
standard in today's market.
So that's really a key thatcame out was people are tired of
being closed, they're tired ofthe pressure selling, they're
tired of the manipulation andthis includes marketing, by the
way.
So what's working right now isa heart-driven approach which
(06:25):
honors both parties, whichelevates the conversation and is
really a decision.
Can I help you?
So let's get real clear onwhat's the what's the problem
and whether or not I'm the bestsolution.
So that's a that's like thecore of all the marketing that
we've done.
Eric Eden (06:40):
That makes sense.
I think people want to get awayfrom the buzzword bingo and
from being qualified in thesales process.
I think people want to get awayfrom the buzzword bingo and
from being qualified in thesales process.
I think people can appreciatethe fact that people are going
through a structured salesprocess, but it doesn't feel
very great.
So I think the truth drivenmore, how can I help you
(07:02):
approach?
It makes logical sense thatthat would resonate more with
people because so many peoplethe saturation of people doing
like these structured sort ofsales plays.
So can you share an example ofhow you put this to work with
with one of your clients?
Marc Von Musser (07:20):
Yeah, there's, there's tons.
Well, there I'll give you two.
One of my first ones was atherapist, right, she was a
75-year-old woman who I'm prettyhigh energy, right.
Well, doctor, was more of thiskind of energy.
And well, Mark, it's not asmuch fun.
(07:43):
Well, let's just put it thisway.
I haven't had an objection inalmost three months and
everybody just buys and it'slike I'm not selling anymore at
all.
I just help people and they allwant to sign up.
And it was so funny becausewhen I started with Dr Deb, she
was not that person at all.
She hated sales, she did notlike that part of it and she was
(08:03):
a therapist, so she was used tothe insurance kind of money
level.
And then she's jumping into a$10,000 program.
And that's how quickly you cantake a good human being that has
a heart of service and showthem how to do very, very well.
That's the first step.
Second one, let's tell you, isabout a friend of mine and a
person that I co-wrote a bookcalled Get Booked and Get Paid
(08:25):
about podcast guesting.
So this was interesting.
So this person is very muchlike I'm high energy and he's
even higher energy, right, andhe had his own mastermind he was
doing very well, severalmillion dollars a year and he
had essentially a coup withinthe mastermind where people
thought they could do it better.
(08:45):
So behind his back, his entiremastermind left and it imploded
right.
The guy that was the new zealotcouldn't deliver on anything.
He said he was a con man and sothe thing evaporated.
But he lost half a milliondollars like that.
The other one is he was doingthe paid traffic model where he
was spending about $30,000 amonth, but so was everyone else,
(09:06):
and Russell Brunson withClickFunnels was telling
everybody just copy what works.
Hundreds of thousands of peopleare jumping into the arena,
eating up the space, competingfor the same ads, etc.
So he's in trouble, he's out ofmoney and he's like I can't
afford $30,000 a month for thepaid traffic.
He goes, I've got to recoup.
(09:27):
I goes, I, I'm starting fromscratch.
So one of the things I do whenmarketing it's different.
It's almost like a conciergekind of process.
I first look at what's the goal.
Number two is what do we haveto work with?
Do you have a big budget?
No budget, okay.
Number three do you solve areal problem?
Can we articulate that problemin an effective way to get in
(09:47):
front of ideal clients, and ifthose are yeses, then we can
help you.
So I did the same process withNikki and, sure enough, I
decided well, let's do podcastguesting.
And he already had one of thebiggest podcasts in North
America.
It's called E-Circle a thoughtleader revolution, right?
His book was recently endorsedby Donald Trump.
It's called E-Circle A ThoughtLeader Revolution, right?
His book was recently endorsedby Donald Trump.
(10:08):
He's done a bunch.
I think he has two New YorkTimes bestsellers, so he had a
pretty big podcast, but heneeded to monetize, and so one
of the things that we did was Ishowed him how to articulate his
message in a way that left thehost and the audience salivating
.
Now here's what's great In thenext two years, working about
(10:29):
five to eight hours a week usingpodcast guesting, he earned
about $500,000 net commissions.
Just a nip under that, I thinkit was like $480,000 or
something like that.
The difference was he did notspend any money on marketing.
The difference was he did notspend any money on marketing and
out of that, his message now isout in front of 4 million
people.
(10:49):
So while he's playing with hiskids, his message is out there
and being listened to by up to 4million people Because, as you
know, with podcasting, being agreat guest is a key Knowing how
to speak articulately and beable to speak something that
leads to further, becausepodcast guests are where people
want to be.
It's arguably the mostunderutilized, highest
(11:12):
opportunity vehicle that existstoday.
It's something I'm very excitedabout.
Eric Eden (11:16):
I think for 2025,.
Podcasting is really breakingout as a channel.
I see stats that now people areeven watching podcasts on
YouTube on their TV like 400million people a month.
It's amazing the reach that ithas, because people want to
search and find these veryinteresting topics to get
(11:41):
content on, and it's a muchbetter way than reading blog
posts, which is what people weredoing like five, 10 years ago.
Right, it's a much moreengaging way to get information.
So that makes a lot of sense.
But I think what about being apodcast guest is the key in
terms of the messaging, like youwere saying to, to get people
(12:02):
salivating and wanting more.
Marc Von Musser (12:03):
There's a couple of things.
Number one is it has to betruthful, right.
So here's one of the thingsthat's kind of happening is the
core landscape of business andpolitics and et cetera.
The age of transparency is uponus.
So, for example, if you're apiece of you know what and
you're not a kind person andyou're a scumbag and you're that
kind of person, it's going toget exposed in today's world.
(12:25):
If you don't believe me, golook at Hollywood, go look at
the politicians.
They're getting exposed leftand right for who they really
are.
Now that leaves a void in thespace.
What's going to fill it?
I firmly believe, are theleaders of tomorrow be the most
aligned, congruent and willingto serve their fellow man.
So what people are yearning foris help, and so what they're
(12:46):
yearning for are people that aregonna really be able to deliver
.
So, to answer your questionabout messaging, it needs to be
client-focused, not self-focused.
That's number one.
Number two, it needs to begenuine Meaning.
There's a saying that we had incoaching people don't take diet
advice from the fat guy, okay.
Well, it's the same thing here.
(13:06):
Does it really hold up?
Does this strategy really work?
I'll give you an example.
In the world of marketing.
There was a person who wasadvertising how he's doing
almost a million and a half amonth.
Okay, that sounds impressive.
Right, that's very smallpercentage.
What he omitted from theconversation was he was spending
(13:27):
a million dollars a month onads.
Now, that's relative and that'sthat's important, because if
you don't have the ability tospend a million dollars of ads,
he would make about five to700,000 on the front end.
So he's still a deficit of halfa million.
He would then upsell like crazyto try and get to that 1.1, 1.2
.
So he's spending almost amillion dollars to make a
(13:48):
hundred to 200,000.
Well, that's good for him, butthe problem is he's selling an
illusion to people that don'thave a million dollars to play
with.
So those types of people he'sout of business today, by the
way.
So in shifted gears.
But that kind of nonsense wasnormal in online marketing.
People were losing money andthey're saying, oh yeah, one
(14:08):
person, for example, copied ourwebsite.
I don't care if you like ElonMusk or like him or hate him,
it's irrelevant.
The one thing these people haveis they're going to speak their
truth.
Regardless Like it or not, hisbase is going to be activated.
The second piece of this is thatthey can defend.
You might not agree with them,but I always do this on both
(14:31):
sides of the aisle.
It cracks me up because theliberals get all pissed off and
then the Republicans get pissedoff if I say the other side.
It's not about that.
It's about why is it?
In a world that has 400 pluscongressmen, we only know a
handful.
If I want to talk about andshe'll speak out boldly both
sides are doing that.
Those are the only names thatwe remember.
And so, in terms of messaging,what is your truth?
(14:55):
How well can you articulate it?
How well can you defend it?
How many ways can you explainit and when you get that?
That's the key to being a greathost, because people just want
to know where you stand and itcracks me up.
There's been so many.
I've studied politics forprobably 40 years, maybe 50.
But I remember watching Kamalaand, again, love her, hate her,
(15:19):
don't matter when she was askeda direct question this is
important for podcasting too.
I don't know if you saw this.
They asked her a question howare you going to fix inflation?
Very direct question.
Right Now it's scripted.
She should have had the answerand she instead dodges and
dashes around it.
I was born in a middle-classfamily.
We had lawns and everybody'slike wait what Now?
(15:42):
Compare that to Trump.
Trump was willing to do a threehour podcast on Joe Rogan and
answer any question.
Whether you like him or not,that was more powerful than
traditional marketing and media.
Let me give you some specifics.
Kamala had raised $1.425billion.
That's a lot of money formarketing.
(16:03):
Number two she also had thebenefit of a mainstream
marketing media, traditionalmedia.
Estimates on that have beenapproximately $6 to $10 billion.
To get that amount of favorablepress, trump raised $400
million.
He also had 97% negativeattacks from traditional media.
(16:24):
You get this.
He's a billion dollars down infundraising and remember it was
always about who could raise themost money.
A billion dollars.
Now she did traditional media.
He did podcasting.
He was on podcasts.
He had 200 million listenersbetween X interview Joe Rogan.
I don't even know all the guyshe did, but he had 200 million
(16:48):
people who he could get hismarketing message directly to
people on the fence, which washis ideal client the undecided
voter.
That's why he won.
Kamala had every advantagegoing in her way.
She still lost because she wasonly talking to her existing
type clientele.
So even here, the marketing wasapplicable and it gets down to
(17:11):
your authentic voice.
Give you one more point, andthis was also true with Hillary,
or Kamala Did you ever see howmany focus groups Hillary
Clinton would use before shewould take a position on a
subject?
Eric Eden (17:28):
No, I didn't see that, but I know she did it
Approximately 10 focus groups.
Marc Von Musser (17:33):
Before she was for gay marriage or against gay
marriage, before she was formeat eating or pro vegan, it was
always done.
So what that does to the buyer,the person that's going to vote
, is they're not sure where shestands, so they're left to go
ahead and create their ownidentity.
Now let's take by comparisonTrump.
He did a lot of marketingbrilliance.
(17:55):
We're going to build a wall andMexico is going to pay for it.
Right, it's going to be abeautiful wall.
I mean, what does that evenmean?
We don't even know.
But it was like, wow, we'regoing to drain the swamp.
Well, who doesn't want to draina swamp?
We didn't know what that meant,but the difference was in a
direct message that he woulddefend and repeat overly versus.
And then the people that votedfor him are like, yeah, that's
(18:17):
what we want.
And if you think aboutmarketing, it's the same thing.
Is your message a generic whitebread mayonnaise message that's
trying to appeal to everybody,or is it directly for your ideal
client?
Are you really truly speakingto their pain points, their
fears, their desires?
And when you get that, you havea powerful message.
Eric Eden (18:39):
So is there a difference between people being
purposely controversial versusspeaking the truth to get
notoriety?
Marc Von Musser (18:50):
Great question, and so the shock factors there,
and you can go back to theshock jocks that used to do that
, right?
I've heard this even about AlexJones, where, when he got sued
by his wife, they got divorced,and he was basically saying he
didn't believe anything.
He said it was for shock value.
That's pretty consistent with alot of these people, right?
I've heard this from bothliberal commentators and
(19:10):
conservative commentators, wherethey don't really believe what
they're saying, but they theirviewers want to hear it.
Now, the problem with that isthat's why these guys are
getting, one by one, gettingknocked off off TV, and so
what's happening is you'reabsolutely correct People are
not even responding to the shockjocks like they used to be.
Remember when?
What's his name?
Who's the guy in New York city?
(19:30):
Howard Stern.
Howard Stern was the like oneof the original shock jocks,
right?
He was one of the front ofeverybody's conversations, and
not anymore, because everybodykind of figured out his shtick.
What you're noticing, though,is that the people that truly
believe in what they believethey're going to have more
impact than the people doing itfor shock value.
Shock value will still work toa degree, but it seems to me
(19:56):
like, behind the scenes, God orthe universe, is exposing people
for who they really are.
So it just seems, one by one,the shock jocks and the people
that were doing it for shockvalue.
There's another.
Let me flip the switch too,because this is something else
that I see.
You bring up a great point.
The other thing I see is peopleare using words like service,
care, love your neighbor, andthey don't believe it at all.
(20:18):
You know what I mean.
You can just kind of resonateand tell this guy's a scumbag.
This guy here is not a goodperson, but he's on stage
talking about how you got toserve your client and he's on
stage talking about how you gotto serve your client and
meanwhile he's cussing andcondemning him backstage.
But what I've noticed is peopleare using those.
It seems to me like they'regetting exposed for who they
really are.
(20:38):
And the other thing that I'vesaid and this is something about
why I believe heart-drivenselling is the way to sell
moving forward For most of thesales trainers that I've studied
over the decades because Istarted when I was probably 10,
selling candy and newspapersdoor to door so one of the
things that's happened is Istarted to notice that the more
(20:59):
pressure and the moremanipulatable used.
It went hand in hand with thedrug addiction, alcoholism,
miserable life, obesity,sickness, illness, heart attacks
.
Life, obesity, sickness,illness, heart attacks is good
at its core and if you abuseother people you can't do
anything but try and shove thatdown with alcohol and drugs.
I don't think.
If you think about the wolf onwall street as an example, his
(21:21):
drug addiction and alcoholismwas not an excuse.
It was trying to cover up thelies he was telling people,
because that doesn't feel goodto be a blatant liar.
And so part of it again, toyour point, a shock jock that's
doing it for clicks.
I think that that's going tohave a similar effect as to
these guys that were lyingblatantly to get a sale.
Eric Eden (21:42):
Yeah, I think that's super interesting because
either being controversial forthe sake of being controversial
or just saying something as alie because you know that it
would get a lot of trafficultimately doesn't work.
I think the people that havethe most success truly believe
(22:03):
what they're saying, and I'lljust use Trump as the example,
because I think he's had a lotof success in it recently.
Doing this, it's like, eventhough he says some really wild
stuff, the reality is that youprobably don't doubt that he
really believes it.
He's not reading a script.
It doesn't sound like buzzwordbingo, correct.
(22:25):
Even people who disagree witheverything he says would say I
think he really believes that.
Marc Von Musser (22:31):
Yeah, so let me , let me he says it with such
conviction right.
This is really funny because Iget it when we're talking about
the crazy 2am tweets, 3am tweets, right.
So this is funny.
One of the guys that I coachednow is doing 10,000 unit
apartment buildings.
The guy makes a ton of money incommercial real estate.
Well, one of his best friendswas George Ross, the attorney
(22:56):
for Donald Trump, and he said,yeah, I'm going to see George.
Who's the attorney on theApprentice?
The older guy, the really smartguy.
Well, he's done over $250million of his own business.
He has a net worth of like aquarter of a billion dollars.
He's never done a deal withTrump.
He was Trump's advisor andattorney, right, and he sat next
to him in the Apprentice.
So I asked him.
I said, hey, do me a favor, justbecause I want to know, ask
Trump why he does the crazytweets, right, that are like
(23:19):
what dude, what the hell, what'sthis about?
Guess what?
I talked to George and again hesaid it drove him crazy.
So he asked George Trump'sattorney, and he said at first,
for years, he said it drove himcrazy because he did that in the
meetings too.
He dropped a bomb on the otherpeople and now it's all chaos,
(23:41):
right.
But what George noticed Georgesaid something was that it was a
power move for him to gaincontrol of the conversation.
So let's walk this through.
Secondly, he said he hadincredibly great instincts.
So 95% of the time he was right.
But he was crass or blunt inthe way he would go at it.
Right, but what he noticed andI saw the genius of this in
(24:03):
politics he's going into anarena where he's an outsider.
They hate him.
Okay, he's not part of the DCestablishment, he's not part of
the big banking system, he's notpart of the big pharma.
He's getting no support fromthe power brokers.
That be.
He comes in the media isimmediately trashing him like
crazy.
What does he do?
Crazy tweets and he takes thenarrative away.
(24:25):
And now they're talking aboutthat.
And over here he did somethingelse.
And every time I watched a 3 amtweet I started to look at what
was he really trying to do?
And then the other thing thatwas really funny was to his
second point, george, is that95% of the time he was right.
So if you remember Trump in theway he would do, it would be
(24:47):
pretty blunt.
He'd say you know, and they'respying on me and everybody, in
the way he would do.
It would be pretty blunt.
He'd say you know, and they'respying on me and everybody in
the media said, oh, he's crazy,he's this, he's this, he's this,
he's this, he's this.
Five years later it came outthey were spying on him.
He was absolutely right and itwas like he has been vindicated
over and over again repeatedlybecause he kind of knows it but
(25:08):
he is not a politician and he'sdoing a lot of those things.
But I was like, okay, that'spretty interesting.
And he now talks about theweave, which is pretty hard to
follow, where he'll weave aroundabout 20 subjects and then come
back.
But I always looked at politicsand any of this as a marketing
game.
I always look at who is havingan effective message, who is
effective Okay, I'll give youanother example.
(25:29):
Okay, having an effectivemessage.
Who is effective Okay, I'llgive you another example.
Okay, bill Clinton has nochance in hell.
Bill Clinton cannot beat thenumber one highest rated
approved president in history,george Bush.
Senior.
Coming out of a wartime victory, it was so overwhelming that
none of the power Democrats weregoing to run for office Okay,
none of them.
And George Bush had the highestapproval rating.
(25:52):
No president has ever lost asecond term.
Coming out of a wartime victory,bill Clinton enters the arena
from some little hick towncalled Arkansas, which I love,
by the way.
I'm just joking.
This was the comments peoplewere making about Bill.
He was a successful governor,he had a lot of great success.
He had a lot of drama andtrauma as well.
But he comes out, a no name,from a small town, a small state
(26:17):
in Southern America, arkansas,and he destroys George Bush
senior.
How does that happen?
Because he was so good at hismessaging and controlling his
narrative.
George Bush got on defense andnever came back, even though
George Bush Sr had everyadvantage in his favor, clinton
(26:37):
wiped the floor with him.
So that's the kind of stuffthat I'd say is to look at the
higher thing about how arethings happening, to move the
needle, because it also isapplicable in business and sales
as well.
But yeah, it was pretty funny,man.
I remember that was arguablyone of the best campaigns before
Obama.
Obama had a great campaign too,but Clinton had one of the best
(27:00):
campaigns I have ever seenbecause he controlled the
narrative and it was brilliant.
To watch how he controllednarratives and talking points
was mind boggling.
Eric Eden (27:10):
Yeah, yeah, he has a lot of charisma.
So I think one of the thingsthat you're saying is is that,
thematically, is a lot of theexamples support the fact that
going the standard route ofadvertising and marketing
(27:32):
standard route of advertisingand marketing In particular, you
were giving examples about howGoogle advertising and
pay-per-click is just sosaturated and it's hard to
really win there when it's socompetitive.
I mean I've seen keywords thatare $40 a click on LinkedIn for
competitive campaigns.
I mean it's just reallyexpensive.
When you do the backwards math,like you're saying, yeah, as
opposed to where a lot of peopleseem to be winning is more
(27:57):
having this truthful, heartfeltmessaging in organic channels
like podcasting, where you cango out and you're not paying for
clicks, you have a strongmessage that draws people in.
Is that really the moral of thestory of how marketing is
shifting?
Marc Von Musser (28:18):
It really is.
Because if you step back, eric,think about it.
How do you want to be sold to?
Do you want a pressure closer,who's giving you a 10th of the
information, telling you justwhat you want to hear?
Or do you want somebody thatsays, hey, eric, let's figure
out what you want with yourbusiness, let's have a real
conversation.
Hey, based on what you'retelling me, here's what you
could do.
This is some solutions.
(28:39):
I've seen work here, here andhere and here I'm happy to help
you if you'd like some help, andthat's what most people are
gravitating to.
And so the other part, too, isthere's something else you
talked about too, which istiming.
If you think about marketing,every marketing method has a
window of opportunity.
Right, you have your blue ocean.
(28:59):
Then you get eventually to yourred ocean, where everybody's
just killing everybody.
So let's go back to I go allthe way back.
I remember when, if you wantedto make money in real estate,
all you had to do was get awebsite.
If you had a website, you wereconsidered an established
realtor, right, cause nobody hada website At first, it was a
webpage.
I've got a website, I've gotmultiple pages on my site, so
(29:19):
therefore, I'm better than youand it was funny because then
that migrated into.
I started back with Corey Rudellback in the day about the
original guy to do pop-ups andonline marketing.
Corey Rudell, he's a legend inthe industry.
This was before Yannick Silverand even Dan Kennedy started on
online and Corey didcarsecretscom.
He did the special report, afree report.
(29:42):
You do it and he'd tell you howto basically get your car for
tens of thousands of less thanwhat the sticker was.
It was brilliant and so thatworked really well until it
stopped because everybodystarted doing the free reports.
Then Craig Craig quantummarketing, craig Proctor did it
in real estate, made $3 milliona year in real estate selling
that with direct responsemarketing, and then that stopped
(30:03):
working.
And then we moved into blogs.
Blogging took a lot of time andif you had a blog you got
traction, you could get clients.
Everybody started blogging.
It stopped working.
Then it was launches JeffWalker, marie Forleo.
They started the launches andat first, at the very beginning,
it worked really well.
But then there's thousands ofpeople trying to launch and it
(30:24):
stopped working.
And that's when the low ticketcame out.
That started to work.
But then everybody did that.
We did high ticket straight to$10,000 offer, example, and that
worked really well untilRussell Brunson and a few others
started saying, hey, just copywhat works.
So everybody copied it.
All the ads look the same,everybody's language was the
same and now you couldn't tellwho was real and who wasn't.
(30:45):
So that stopped working.
Meanwhile, ios 14 happened andthey changed the algorithms.
So it was one of those thingswhere you have to find a new way
.
So, as the vehicles change, howmuch can you hear the audience,
how much can you hear whattheir needs really are and can
you find platforms to getdirectly to them?
(31:06):
Because here's the good news,and can you find platforms to
get directly to them?
Because here's the good newsthere has never been a better
time ever in history where, ifan authentic, truthful message
can go worldwide like that, youhave more power in a cell phone
today than the Kings had ahundred years ago.
You have access to every bit ofinformation, everything that
(31:27):
you need to know right now, andeven right now, if you've got a
cell phone and a message, youcould start having impact, and I
always look, I'm looking to seewho's blowing up right.
And again to your earlierunderlying point most of these
people are not 100% accurate.
The vegans are going to screamveganism is the only way until
they find out they don't.
(31:47):
Now they're secretly non-vegan,but they're still making money
selling the vegan illusion.
The carnivore same thingCarnivore is the best way.
And then, privately, they'renot doing it, and so there's a
lot of that happening.
But I want to watch who'sblowing up, and by that I mean
in a good way, and how congruentare they to their messaging and
Are they to their messaging?
And that's really the key.
And underneath everything isyou've got to serve your fellow
(32:09):
man with everything you are.
If you do that, you'll standout on any platform and any
market.
That's what I'm noticing.
Is that's what's really what'sworking?
Eric Eden (32:20):
That makes a lot of sense that that is what's
working.
Is there anything else that youlearned in your experience
helping Tony Robbins make somuch money?
That would be helpful to peoplewho want to follow your advice
and go down this path.
Marc Von Musser (32:41):
Yes, I would say trust yourself.
And here's what I mean by that.
When I started training, thesales were not where they wanted
it to be, and I was asked totrain some of the sales teams
for Tony's teams.
So I went in and looked at whatthey're doing.
Okay, they got lazy by sellingon Tony's name.
Okay, tony told me this and hey, eric, you need to do this.
(33:01):
Tony's going to talk about that.
Hey, me and Tony were talking,and you know what I mean.
They were leveraging therelationship with Tony.
It's called posture associationselling.
Right Now, that will be certainlevel of effective.
How did I take him and growevery department by 300%?
What I did was I got them tostop selling on Tony's name and
start selling you on youroutcome.
(33:23):
So this is what it sounded like.
I'd say hey Eric, let's jump ona call to figure out what's
going on with your business.
If it was a business event,let's find out what's going on
in your business, let's figureout what you're looking for and
see if we have some solutions.
And no matter what, I'll getyou clarity and you're going to
know what you need to do foryour next steps, right?
So who doesn't want to figureout what there is.
So then we'd talk and I toldthe guys stop selling the event
(33:47):
and start selling the outcome.
So here's what happened.
So all of a sudden, these guyswere getting on the phone and
everybody starts buying theirtickets to these $10,000 events.
And they were getting greatresults, because the focus of
the conversation was tell meabout your business, what's not
working, let's fix it.
The seminar Now here's where thepeople got in trouble.
Some of the people would putthem in the seminar even if they
(34:14):
didn't need it.
That now is a break ofintegrity.
That is a break of spirituallaw.
Those guys would all of asudden get exposed.
The people would be unhappy.
But if they would just steerthem to coaching you don't need
a business right now, you need acoach to help get you going and
they started to steer towhatever served the client.
Now here's the backend is theystarted getting referral sales,
which they never got.
And there was one other personthat I trained and he outsold
(34:36):
the other five guys combined bya level of three to one.
What we did was is he got onand he told me the bullshit
pitch that they told him to use.
You know, tony put his armaround me and said you're the
best guy and everybody here.
And so one of the things thathappened is I was asking him I
said how do you feel when you dothat, lee?
And he said I feel like I'm aliar.
And I said do you think that wepick up on those inner
(35:00):
dialogues?
And we absolutely do.
I said tell me why you're here,why are you working for Tony?
And, holy crap, did he come outwith some passion.
It was inspiring, it was real.
I said this is your new pitch.
Okay, I said this is what Iwant you to share with everyone
you talk to.
And I said Lee, do you want tolearn how to get it?
Get 15 tickets in a room of 10people?
(35:21):
He goes you can't.
We only need to get 10%.
I said I know it's not aboutgetting 10%, it's about finding
15 people to inspire and help.
So he goes.
Well, let's do it.
So the standard was 10% of aroom.
I showed him how to get 100% to150% at times and the
difference.
I said the alphas, the peopleyou really want, are not in the
(35:43):
room waiting for a free seminar.
They're out there making dealshappen.
But they have friends in theroom and if you're as good as I
think you are, they're going tocall their friends.
And now, all of a sudden,you're getting additional
tickets.
That's exactly what happened.
So he started going out thereand started speaking about his
passion and about what'sstopping you guys, and started
speaking with this eloquence andthis authenticity.
(36:05):
All of a sudden, he outsold theother five guys in this
authenticity.
All of a sudden, he outsold theother five guys, three to one
combined, meaning all of theirsales.
He 300X their sales and heloved it.
He had passion, he was feelingin alignment, and that's really
what you're going to need to doin any business.
Marketing method will comesecondary to how connected you
(36:26):
are to your real truth.
And don't just parrot.
This is one of the things Itell people.
Don't just parrot what soundsgood.
That's another trap.
Know what you know and believeit, and that's really a key,
because if you know it and youcan defend it, you can back it
up and it's not just theoreticaltheory that you heard once and
you can make money on it.
You'll have a depth ofconviction and people are
(36:48):
energetic beings.
They're picking up on the truthright now and they're going to
continue to do that.
They can kind of sniff fraud.
There was a person that we weretrying to help and when I
interviewed the people watchinghis webinars words like creepy,
desperate, scammer those werewhat he was projecting and
that's a big reason why he losthis business, because that's
(37:10):
what he was projecting.
People kind of pick up on it.
They just can't put theirfinger on it.
And the opposite is also truewhen somebody else is out there
speaking with a passion that'sunfiltered, like you said,
unfiltered raw, but it's realand you know this is what they
believe.
You'll listen.
That's what has to happen ifpeople want to thrive in today's
market.
Eric Eden (37:30):
I think that's great advice.
You can't really fake passion,right?
That's something, I thinkthat's really hard to fake, and
I think when people try to go tothings that are not true
because they're following somekind of a playbook oh I need to
say this or do it this way itdoes set off sort of those
(37:52):
alarms or the spidey sense ofpeople, Even if they can't put
their exact finger on it.
It's easy to default to notbuying and not doing anything,
and so I think that's fantasticadvice.
Is there anything else youwanted to share here that we
didn't cover?
Marc Von Musser (38:13):
I would just say, guys that start thinking
this is something we taught alot and this is something that
has really made a big differenceis that we are all everybody
listening.
This is part of a blessedminority in the world.
If you look at the rest of theworld, the rest of the world
wishes they had our challengesand could swap places with us,
(38:34):
but with that comes aresponsibility.
What I believe needs to happenis all of us collectively start
by loving yourself.
Okay, god doesn't make junk.
He didn't start with you, andpart of it is to look past.
Maybe you don't have yourbillion dollars, maybe you don't
have your jet.
Maybe you don't have yourFerrari.
Maybe you don't have that.
Don't have your billion dollars.
Maybe you don't have your jet,maybe you don't have your
Ferrari.
Maybe you don't have that.
But get back to the fact you'rea human being.
(38:55):
Start with that truth, right.
You matter to somebody, you aresomebody's hero, and that could
be your mom, that could be yoursister, that could be a friend.
Start by understanding that,that you matter, because you can
only give away that, what youhave for yourself.
So if you're filled withself-loathing and inadequacy,
that's what you're going to see.
There was a saying that wetalked about hurt people hurt
people.
Well, let's flip it.
Healed people can heal people,people that use business to make
(39:18):
the world a better place.
I'd rather those people startto win.
I'd rather those be the leadersof tomorrow.
Where I go and if I want tolearn how to, for example let's
say I want to learn how to singI want to learn how to, for
example, let's say I want tolearn how to sing, I want to go
to a guy who's going to be therein my corner that's going to
help me do it.
I don't want some guy just totake my money and not return my
emails.
So everybody out there, we havea choice.
(39:44):
Just because it's been donealways a certain way Doesn't
mean we have to play that game,and I proved that with Tony.
I proved that at clients ondemand.
I proved that repeatedly.
Think outside of the box.
Everything that I've noticed isworking is when you love on
yourself and then you love onfellow human beings.
That is more powerful than themost powerful marketing platform
there is, and if you can dothat, you're going to wake up
proud of who you are.
You're going to be a better mom, a better father, you're going
(40:05):
to be a better human being.
And collectively, the world ishurting.
We need more people to step upand speak this truth and I want
to see one day a world where thepeople coming behind us Eric, I
want them to look up and going,wow, that guy's kind of a jerk,
but that guy he's fricking,loving life.
Look at how many people are andI want to show them an
alternative that you don't haveto lie, you don't have to
(40:27):
manipulate, you don't have towithhold the facts.
Speak your truth and servepeople and watch what happens.
The money follows service andI'd say, if the people out there
, collectively, we don't have toplay the game the way it's
always been played.
I'd say let's innovate andlet's serve.
Eric Eden (40:44):
Awesome.
Thank you for sharing theseinsights, stories and advice.
Really appreciate it.
Thank you for your time andbeing on the show today.
I'm going to link to yourwebsite and your LinkedIn so
people can get in touch andcontinue the conversation if
they'd like to do so.
Really appreciate you beinghere today having me and
(41:08):
everybody out there.
Marc Von Musser (41:09):
Thanks for listening.
And again, remember God doesn'tmake junk.
He didn't start with you, so goahead and love yourself and
also reach out until one persontoday.
They matter, it does make adifference, guys, big love.
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