January 26, 2025 • 37 mins
Branding aficionados, prepare to be enlightened as we welcome Kim Derrick Rozdeba, a branding expert with over three decades of experience in branding, communications, and marketing. Kim takes us on a journey through his career, from time at global powerhouses like Ogilvy to ventures in writing and thought leadership. Together, we unravel the five Cs of branding, a unique framework Kim crafted to decode and influence brand perception. Discover how a brand's essence resonates through emotions, and mastering the art of making customers feel valued and connected.
Ever wondered how a brand can thrive even before a product hits the shelves? Look no further than the case of Liquid Death, a brand that ingeniously harnessed the power of social media and viral trends to carve its identity. We dissect how emotional resonance and that elusive element of "coolness" can captivate consumers, drawing parallels with traditional giants like Apple. Through tales of emotional brand loyalty, we unveil how memorable experiences, like those offered by the Marriott Bonvoy loyalty program, forge unbreakable bonds with customers, driving long-term allegiance and advocacy.
Innovation is the heartbeat of enduring brands, and we highlight the strategies of trailblazing entrepreneurs and iconic companies. While social media remains a crucial tool, the episode underscores the importance of substance over superficial metrics, urging brands to align their strategies with genuine business goals. From the interplay of personal and corporate branding showcased by figures like Oprah Winfrey and Elon Musk to the strategic insights Kim offers, our conversation is a goldmine for anyone looking to enhance their branding expertise. Prepare to walk away with actionable advice and inspiration that will help your brand shine brighter in the competitive landscape.
Check out Kim's blog and books on branding.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:02):
We are talking about branding strategies and we have
the perfect guest, a brandingexpert, to help us talk through
this today.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (00:15):
Thank you very much, Eric.
I appreciate being on your show.
Eric Eden (00:20):
So why don't we start off, why don't you share just a
minute or two, a little bitabout who you are and what you
do?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (00:25):
For over 30 years on branding and
communications and marketing,working for companies, global
companies, and now I'm actuallyable to spend my time doing this
, writing books about branding,taking all the knowledge I have.
I mean I go back my days when Iwas in an advertising agency
and what I know today and what Iknew then, I wish, I wish
(00:50):
somebody had, you know, taken measide and explained to me what
a brand was.
You know when I look at it, youknow from the.
Again, I'd read everything thatwas available at the time, way
back when, you know, I workedfor Ogilvy, so David Ogilvy was
one of the mentors thatdefinitely I followed.
But really, I mean, todayunderstanding what a brand is is
(01:12):
very different than it was.
Eric Eden (01:17):
Congratulations on that retirement.
Some of us are not retired,we're just tired.
So that must be great for youand you're well.
You're well earned after 30years, so I'm glad to have you
here and talking about it.
And you've also written a book,like you mentioned.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour books, just so people know
what your body of work is?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (01:37):
there I write a blog on branding.
That's kind of how I startedthis whole journey and I
stumbled upon, you know, a womanback in the 1810, viv Clicquot,
the champagne, and BarbaraNicole Clicquot-Pasarden was the
(01:58):
founder and the owner and theactual brand builder that was
behind that champagne and itreally got me thinking about.
Are there other women out therethat I don't, because I did not
know Veuve?
I don't know if you speakFrench, I don't, but Veuve is
widow.
So when I found out she had puton the bottleow Clicquot, I go
(02:27):
why?
Why would you put Widow?
So, anyways, you'll have toread the book to find out more
about them.
But where that book took me tothis next book was I framed out
what I call the five Cs ofbranding.
I needed some sort of way tocompartmentalize what a brand is
and how can you infect it andnot infect it, but how do you
(02:52):
influence it?
And so I came up with the fiveCs.
And the five Cs is really thefoundation for my second book,
which is Loyalnomics, the Powerof Branding, and it's taking the
holistic viewpoint of what abrand is.
And I love to give mydefinition, if you'll allow me,
(03:12):
of what a brand is because Ithink it's so important to
understand what it is thatyou're trying to do, and so
definition, very simply, is abrand isn't what it does or says
, but how it makes its customerfeel.
Now, it's a very similar toMaya Angelou.
Absolutely, I've taken one ofthe greatest quotes in the world
(03:34):
, but what I'm really trying tosay here is that it's the
feeling that the customer has.
Now, if I knew that when I wasworking in advertising, wow, I
would have been able to havedone probably better work all
the time, because I would havehad a better measuring stick as
to the success of every campaignthat I did.
Eric Eden (03:58):
I think that's a great point.
How something makes thecustomer feel is huge.
You know you can do a verystrong, aggressive sales pitch
and feel good that you toutedall of the features of your
products and you got in all thepoints, but if it leaves people
(04:21):
feeling yucky, that's not greatright.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (04:23):
Well, and you know what.
There are some brands that wantto make you feel yucky.
You know.
If you start looking at some ofthe brands, you know Stop
Smoking, I think, is a reallygood example.
There are lots of differentemotions.
They're not all necessarilypositive emotions, and so you
can use negative emotions justas effectively, but understand
what you're trying to do.
(04:44):
But branding to me is about allthose touch points.
So you know everybody, you knowgoes oh yeah, it's the
advertising.
Well, yeah, it is, and it isthe marketing, it is the product
, but it's also your employees,it's also your stakeholders.
You know your influencers whoare out there, you know talking
about you in a, you know, apositive way.
(05:06):
So to me it's that very highlevel.
Look at what is it that you'redoing?
Every touch point builds onthat feeling of what that brand
is it's really the whole vibe,not just the advertising.
I agree, yes so you know, and alot of brands, they really, you
(05:26):
know, the, the the weakest, thethe weakest link is, generally,
you know, the salesperson.
It's the person that's got, youknow, the less invested in the
business.
Uh, you know, doesn'tunderstand possibly what the
brand actually stands for andand that's the transaction.
That's where you get to touchpoint.
That's one of the biggest touchpoints that brands have, so it
(05:51):
becomes a really important onefrom looking at it from again
very high level perspective.
Eric Eden (05:59):
So can you give an example from recent times?
You have such an illustriouscareer of someone either one of
your clients that you've workedwith on branding or something
that you've worked on either way, where you think they embody
the best success, and donesomething really remarkable
(06:20):
branding-wise that you'd like tohighlight?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (06:22):
So I'm going to highlight and I did not
work on it directly, but I dida whole bunch of research and I
wrote an article on it, and it'salso an example in my book,
loyalnomics, because I use a lotof examples of addressing what
I'm saying because there'stheory and then there's
expertise, but, as you're askinghere today, where did the
(06:44):
rubber hit the road and how wasit successful?
And I think, before I actuallyget into this example, one of
the trends that I'm seeing today, which I think is really
important for people tounderstand, is a brand.
Today is far more importantbecause the actual product in a
lot of cases isn't physical.
When you start looking at Uber,you look at a lot of these
(07:13):
things that are.
And so the example I'm going touse here today, which is really
interesting because it startedoff as a brand before it became
a product and that was liquiddeath.
Now, I don't know if you knowliquid death, Liquid death is a
water, okay, spring water.
Okay, it's spring water, butit's in a can, you know, and
it's in a large can, and itstarted out this and the person
(07:38):
behind this brand is fromadvertising and he actually
started this whole brand.
Bit of a lark as to see if hecould build a brand, and so he
did.
He built this brand.
He brought you know, figuredout sort of what it was going to
feel like, look like, andstarted with social media.
(07:59):
It went viral.
They did a video and it starteda following.
Had no product and the reasonthey came up with this canned
product was they actuallystarted.
He'd noticed at a couple ofdifferent concerts he went to
that the musicians were drinkingout of cans, out of other
(08:20):
products that were out there andgoing have a Red Bull.
You know like five Red Bulls ona stage.
So it was water.
They were actually puttingwater in there, but they wanted
to look cool.
You know they didn't want tohave just a water bottle on the
stage.
So that was the concept.
The concept came from this ideathat there are people out there
(08:42):
that want to have a water whenyou're partying, you're out and
you know health is, is a is areally important aspect in
today's culture, and so hestarted this whole idea.
But he built the brand first andyou know, in history I've
(09:02):
looked at many brands and howthey start and they don't start
with a brand.
Apple never started with abrand.
Apple started with a productand most, most companies start
that way and the reason being isbecause they have a, they have
a solution.
There's a problem out there.
They built something.
(09:22):
It's physical and they've gotsomething to sell because it's
solving a problem.
Eventually they get to thebrand Because the brand, as I
said, it's owned by the customer.
So whether you do anythingconsciously about the brand, it
will live with or without youBecause you know it's owned by
(09:45):
the customer.
Now you can consciously startbuilding a brand and I, you know
, I looked at Liquid Death and Ithought, you know, this is a
really good example ofconsciously building a brand.
Before the product and thatproduct sold out, they had no
distribution.
They finally found a company inEurope.
(10:06):
They could not find Because, ifyou start looking at the
production of water, generallythe packaging is near the source
and there was no packaging thatcould handle cans, because most
can products didn't need to beby the water source directly.
(10:28):
So I only found one in Europe.
So I had to get a whole, Ithink, boatload of this stuff
because it was cheaper to get.
I was supposed to get a coupleof and it was sold out on Amazon
because that's the only networkhe had to get this product out
(10:50):
and it was sold out because ofthe brand and you can imagine by
putting it on Amazon.
It's not going to be cheap, butit wasn't.
Eric Eden (11:01):
And so how did liquid death succeed by making people
feel a certain way?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (11:07):
So it was cool and coolness is.
I mean, I've listened to one ofyour podcasts, earlier I think,
with Justin Oberman, who talkedabout personal branding, which
I thought was really good.
I mean, he's a bright man andyou know he talked about fame
and you know being famous andyou know I think famous is
(11:31):
really important.
I take a different approach.
To me, it's being cool.
If a brand's cool, it doesn'thave to be trendy.
It can be, but you got to be onthe leading edge.
You've got to be ahead of thegame.
You've got to have an attitude.
You've got to have.
You know there's people outthere you go.
(11:55):
I go back to my example of youknow, going to school there was
cool kids and you know you kindof look and go what makes them
different than me.
I was not a cool kid and youknow it's the way they walk, the
way they talk.
You know there's a panachethere, of sorts.
We look at some brands.
(12:17):
Design becomes hugely important.
The logo becomes, the colorpalette becomes really important
.
There's all these differentsignals that give you that
coolness.
That give you that coolness.
Famous is about people wantingto know you, people that do know
you, that you're out there allthe time and that's really hard,
(12:38):
but you can be really cool andyou don't have to be out there.
Eric Eden (12:42):
It's interesting because, at the end of the day,
a lot of products are verysimilar.
Right, they do things slightlydifferently or slightly better
in some ways than others, butwater being a good example.
I mean, there's all differentbrands of water that you can buy
, but it's water.
It largely tastes the same,with maybe a slight difference.
(13:04):
But it's interesting that howsomething makes people feel is
what drives people to be loyaland make repeat purchases.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (13:16):
Right, and that's what makes it so
interesting, because we're humanand you know it is about
feeling.
At the end of the day, we are arational creature as well.
Yeah, absolutely you know.
But you know, talk to anybodythat's bought a house, you know,
and, and they'll give you allthe rational.
It's near the schools.
Really, one of the best schools, it's this.
(13:36):
It's near this transit, blah,blah.
But that's not the reason whythey bought it.
That's the rational reason thatthey've justified.
They walked in, they felt it.
You feel these things, and sothat part, I think, is hugely
important.
You're right about water.
The reason why I use thatexample is because it's water,
(13:59):
it's H2O.
There's a great little you goon YouTube of a test done of
using New York water and theydid a blind test of several of
the top bottled waters and theNew York tap water.
Guess who?
Which?
Guess which one one.
(14:19):
It was the New York tap water,that one.
So I mean it's water.
I do not know of any connoisseurof.
I you know I love wine and I'dlove to be a connoisseur of wine
, but I don't know anybody thatyou know can decipher one water
from another water, and that was, you know, interesting.
(14:41):
Going back to liquid death.
That was not his driver.
He was not pursuing to get thebest product out there.
Okay, putting it in a can madeit cooler.
Also.
He argued and argues, and thebrand argues, that it's more
environmentally friendly becausethere is a recycling program,
(15:03):
because of all the bottled orcanned beer and canned pops that
are out there, that thisproduct is being recycled.
So there is a positive otheraspect to it.
But you know the actual waterinside.
Eric Eden (15:21):
Interesting.
So I'm going to give you myfavorite brand loyalty example
because I think, as a whole, youknow people are very emotional
about brand loyalty and the onethat I'd be emotional about is
Marriott's loyalty program,bonvoy, which I think with over
a billion people in it, becausethey have 8,000 hotels around
(15:43):
the world and they're alwaysencouraging anyone who stays at
their hotel to sign up for it.
I think it's one of the largestloyalty programs out there.
And because my personal travelis hobbying my personal hobby is
traveling.
I've been to 63 countries andstayed in different types of
Marriott hotels all over theworld and I like the Marriott
(16:08):
Bonvoy program because of how itmakes me feel In the sense of
they have these levels and youdo get benefits and they
recognize that you're a loyalcustomer.
I happen to be the top levelambassador elite and when you
check in they say thank you forbeing an ambassador elite with
us and you get great benefits,everything from late checkout to
(16:33):
20% discount on food andbeverage, to upgraded rooms
really great benefits.
They recognize that you're loyalto them and that's a great
feeling.
And a funny thing is this onelady behind me in line was new
to Stanky Marriott's and shesaid what country are you an
ambassador from?
But you know, I think, jokingaside, it does make me, you know
(17:00):
, feel a certain way to be apart of that, when a lot of
hotels there's a lot of othernice hotels you can stay at,
like very high end hotels, likeFour Seasons, that have equally
great five-star experiences, butthey don't actually have a
loyalty program and they don'tactually seem to care as much if
(17:20):
I'm loyal to them when I travelaround the world.
And so I think it's veryinteresting, both from a B2B and
a B2C perspective, how peoplefeel about the brands, because I
will almost always stay at aMarriott for that reason.
They get my repeat businessevery year and it's cool.
(17:42):
It's not because of thebenefits of the program, while
they're good, it's because youfeel like you're part of
something right.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (17:50):
Eric, that's a wonderful example.
I'm also a member of theirawards program.
I'm a lifetime Platinum member,so I've been using them quite a
bit as well.
And if I've got the time, onesmall little story, because it's
a side story to how you feelwhen you walk into the place and
(18:11):
how they feel I used to getcards from people because I was
a frequent flyer as well and Iwould stay at the same place
multiple times and the staff Iknew them by name and they knew
me by name because I was thereso often and that actually was.
(18:31):
I continually said this was mysecond in a business, it was
humid, it was hot and I needed acab and I was trying to get a
cab, an Uber, I was trying toget anything, but I needed one
really quick because I was latefor a meeting.
It was like four blocks, itwasn't that far, but it was so
humid that I did not want to goin a suit, you know, in a tie
(18:54):
and absolutely soaking wet, andwalk into that meeting.
So across the street was a, wasa hotel, you know, and
generally you can get a okay,fine.
Did he think I was from thehotel?
It didn't seem to matter.
I was in a situation I needed acab very quickly and they
(19:19):
solved my problem, but againthey didn't realize that I was a
customer like I was a majorcustomer for them and they did
that, and I tell that story allthe time.
And they did that and I tellthat story all the time.
So when you have those kinds ofthose moments, those touch
points of a brand, that isunbelievable advertising,
(19:40):
because we're talking about ithere.
Eric Eden (19:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you reap what you sowin those sorts of situations,
and they have the culture ofthat at Marriott, even one of
their many brands, ritz-carlton,they even tell their employees
that they can spend up to acertain amount of money per
customer to just make theirexperience great.
(20:04):
Right, like?
That's an extreme example of it, because they're a five-star
brand, and so I think that thisis really great insight.
I wanted to ask you, based onyour 30 years of experience in
branding, how do people get tocreating a brand that gives the
(20:28):
right feeling Like?
What advice would you givemarketers and business leaders
who want to create a brand thatmakes people feel a certain way?
What are some of the tips you'dhave for people who want to do
that?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (20:41):
So I'm going to draw from the 20 women
that I followed and tried tounderstand how they built their
iconic brands.
These are all big brands andwhat was common amongst all of
them was their passion ofgetting the solution for a
(21:02):
problem and making sure theirproduct was the best product in
the marketplace and they did notcut corners in the marketplace.
And they did not cut cornersand they were absolutely, you
know, driven to ensure theirproduct was the best product on
(21:24):
the market.
So it's not about the best ador the best slogan.
That will follow.
All of those things will follow, as long as you've got the eye
on the right thing, which is theproduct.
Apple, great example Today.
One of the best marketersquestion today is will they be
(21:46):
the best product?
And that's where I think themarket is starting to say
where's the next evolution?
Innovation, Innovation, sorry,and it is about the product or
the service.
So if you go out of your way tomake sure that the experience
(22:10):
is going to be the bestexperience the customer is going
to have, you see luxuryproducts all the time because
they focus on that, because it'sexpected, and so if you
actually focus on giving thebest experience overall
experience but make sure theproduct is the best too.
Eric Eden (22:36):
Yeah, I think the Apple example is an interesting
one because I bought the firstiPhone the first day it came out
, many years ago.
I'm very old and older than theiPhone, in fact, and I've had a
reiteration of it almost sincethen and a lot of people in
recent times, like you're saying, is like, oh, after the 16
(22:56):
versions, like the last 10versions of it, there's not
really much innovation therefrom phone to phone, Like the
camera's a little bit betterevery time and in fact, in the
latest release of the latestphone and the latest version of
iOS, some people have complainedthat like they've completely
messed up the photos app andthey completely have under
(23:16):
delivered on the AI Appleintelligence piece of it.
It's sort of terrible and likethere are certain things with
the iOS operating system andversion the latest version that
people are very unhappy about.
It's like they didn't, and likethere are certain things with
the iOS operating system andversion the latest version that
people are very unhappy about.
It's like they didn't do anyquality control at all.
So I think you know the thing Ilearned from that is that you
have to keep your eye on theball.
(23:37):
Just because you did somethinggreat 15 years ago.
You can't just leave it onautopilot.
You have to continue toinnovate.
You have to continue to deliverthat experience, like you're
saying.
You have to continue toinnovate.
You have to continue to deliverthat experience, like you're
saying, otherwise you couldfumble right.
(24:07):
Yeah Well, there is newinnovations that are happening
every day on the podcast here,and you said that you have some
strong opinions on it.
I'd like to hear what yourviews on it are, because I think
it is relatively controversial.
Some people believe in it,others believe in it less, so
I'm curious what your take on itis.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (24:28):
So I'm glad you started off our discussion
about strategy, because I thinkstrategy is really important and
I see social media as tacticsand so to me, you got to back up
and go.
Do you need to be on socialmedia?
Because that's the delivery.
When you talk about personalbranding, that's where you
(24:52):
deliver most of the content.
And sometimes I wonder maybethis is driven by the social
media organizations that are outthere because they need content
.
So if everyone's a brand, thenyou know they can
compartmentalize you.
And I think what's reallyimportant and actually you know
you had Justin on and I thoughtone of the points he made and I
(25:14):
think it's really important thathe made it, because most people
don't make this point and thatis that you know, when we talk
about personal branding, it'snot to be a brand.
Now there are people out therethat I would say are brands.
Oprah Winfrey is a brand,martha Stewart is a brand, but
(25:35):
her personal life all about heris behind the curtain.
There is a brand in front andyou know she did not accept that
she was a brand for many years.
And there's again on YouTube,there's a great video of her
actually admitting that she's abrand and the reason she
admitted that she's a brand isbecause she understood that
(25:57):
consistency was important inbuilding a brand.
And that's one of the five C'sthat I have when I go through
the sort of the how to build abrand and that consistency
becomes really important.
But for most of us, you know,we don't need to be a box of
(26:17):
cereal, we don't.
You know, there's a great,there's a great quote out there
I don't know who, who actuallycoined it, but I use it often is
brands are trying to be morelike people and people are
trying more to be like a brand,which is kind of funny because
(26:38):
we're far more complex, we arefar more dynamic in and you know
, our personalities are, youknow, we can't conform.
As I said, consistent and it'stwo-dimensional, and what I mean
by two-dimensional is it'sconstructed and so we can learn
(27:02):
from it.
Absolutely, and that's whatJustin mentioned as well.
We can learn from how you knowbuilding a brand and use some of
those, but understand, startingwith your strategy, as to why
do you want to build a brand.
Ideally, you've got a productor service, and if you've got a
(27:22):
product and service, then that'sthe brand that you're trying to
build on your back.
But you also got to understandwhere do you stop and where does
it go.
Because if it's all on you, thebrand, the product stops too,
and that's fine.
If you want to retire like me,if you want to retire like me,
(27:46):
you want hopefully to build abrand that you can sell, that
has value attached to it, thatcan continue, and again that
happens.
I mean, martha Stewart's brandcontinues with or without her,
(28:07):
but that takes time and that'shard.
Eric Eden (28:11):
Absolutely.
I think it's interesting thatpeople in business founders,
business leaders, in particularCEOs have to think about how to
balance their personal brand andtheir company's brand, and I
(28:36):
don't know that it necessarilyneeds to be one or the other.
It's more how do the two worktogether in concert for your
benefit?
I think the benefit of apersonal brand in addition to a
company brand is that nobodylikes to just buy from a
faceless company.
My big question is always isthis a scam or do I believe, if
I'm investing in this companyand their products, that they're
(28:59):
going to be headed in the rightdirection down the road?
I think that's why people getexcited about being customers of
some of the biggest techcompanies, like Salesforce.
People are like Mark Benioffwill lead us to the right way in
being the CEO of Salesforceright.
And similarly, I think a lot ofpeople buy Teslas because of
(29:21):
Elon Musk.
They believe in Elon Musk'svision, in Elon Musk's vision.
So I think there's lots of goodexamples out there of people who
are able to build both theircompany brand of Tesla and Elon
Musk has a great personal brandthat's built on like I'm
successful, I'm really smart, Ihave a vision, and so I think
(29:42):
it's interesting for people tothink about the balance between
those two things.
It's interesting for people tothink about the balance between
those two things and you know, Idon't think the right balance
is to completely over index onone or the other for the reasons
you were saying.
Like, if you make it all aboutyour personal brand and not your
(30:03):
company, then that's probablytoo extreme.
And if you make it all aboutthe company and there's no
personality behind it, thenpeople like to buy from people,
not just faceless entities.
So I think that balance isinteresting.
Have you seen that?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (30:14):
Yeah, I have, and I mean Tesla is a
really good example.
I mean, if he disappears, willthat brand be the same brand
Apple?
We had the same situation inApple.
(30:37):
So people want to buy frompeople.
I get that, but people changeand people aren't here 150 years
.
There are brands out there thatare 150 years old and there's
even older brands than 150.
And so I get that people wantto buy from people, but if the
(31:09):
brand is trusted and isconsistent continuously, you
don't need people on that.
I spend a lot of time in my booktalking about mascots, because
mascots are a nice way to bridgethat Human qualities, human
attributes but they're not real.
And with AI today, how real canthese mascots be?
(31:35):
Probably really real.
But they're controllable, theywill be consistent and that is
one of the I mean Quaker Oats,great example of a mascot that's
been on McDonald's.
Ronald McDonald, good exampleof a mascot that is the face and
(32:01):
it's a consistent face.
Language doesn't matter, so itgoes across countries, cultures.
So I look at mascots and going.
Mascots have been looked at andgoing.
Those are something that backin the 60s but yes, correct,
(32:23):
back in the 50s and 60s a lot ofthese mascots that exist today
were built then and they'restill relevant today because
they can be tweaked, they can bechanged to the new market, to
the new trends, and so peopleare important, absolutely.
(32:44):
And if you are service-driven,you are the face.
Lawyers, accountants, you arethe face, you are the brand, you
are the.
So it makes perfect sense.
You can be a voice, you couldbe a stakeholder, but you don't
have to be the brand, but youdon't have to be the brand.
Eric Eden (33:09):
It's all about finding balance in the force, I
think, because I think it'sdifferent a little bit for every
business.
I've heard naysayers onpersonal branding say that their
personal brand has not reallydriven their business forward,
Like Neil Patel, who's a famousmarketing podcaster.
He has marketing school.
(33:30):
He said oh, I spent all thistime building my brand of Neil
Patel around.
I'm an SEO expert and he's likeI don't really, for my company,
win any business because of mypersonal brand anymore and he's
like I just focus on you know,you know, replying to RFPs, and
I don't get RFPs because of mypersonal brand, and so I don't
(34:06):
think it's cookie cutter forevery business that you run a
service business, or if yourbusiness lends itself to you,
it'll help you stand out,differentiate from a crowded
market.
There are lots of reasons whypeople could find the right
balance between their companybrand and their personal brand,
(34:29):
and I think that's a fascinatingarea of a branding strategy.
So I encourage everyone to getyour books and drill in on that.
And is there anything else thatyou wanted to mention that we
didn't dive into today?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (34:43):
So no, just again reiterating what you just
said Everyone's different,every brand is different, every
situation is different.
So every tactic isn't going tobe the same.
And I think we're so easy.
We want a solution, right, wewant to give me a solution, give
me a tactic.
What should I do?
And really, what you need toreally understand is what is
(35:05):
your strategy, what is it thatyou're really trying to achieve?
And get to that higher level.
Really understand is what isyour strategy, what is it that
you're really trying to achieve?
And get to that higher level ofunderstanding of what is it you
want to do.
I mean, you have to invest alot of time as a person to your
business and to your brand andyou've got to ask the question,
like how much do I need to do aspart of the brand or being the
(35:31):
brand of that success?
So, go back to the strategy, goback to understanding what is
it that you're really trying toachieve?
I mean a lot of services thatare out there.
How many clients do you need?
Like, do you need a brandthat's global or across North
(35:52):
America?
Do you need 10,000 followerswhen you really only need 100
customers?
Don't know.
Eric Eden (36:02):
Great advice Start with a strategy and work
backwards from that.
Again, I'm going to link toyour website and your books in
the show notes so people can getthem easily and check them out
and get in touch if they want tochat more with you about this
topic.
Thanks so much for being withus today and sharing these
(36:24):
stories and your insights.
We appreciate it.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (36:27):
Thank you, Eric.
I enjoyed the conversation withyou today.
We are talking about branding strategies and we have
the perfect guest, a brandingexpert, to help us talk through
this today.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (00:15):
Thank you very much, Eric.
I appreciate being on your show.
Eric Eden (00:20):
So why don't we start off, why don't you share just a
minute or two, a little bitabout who you are and what you
do?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (00:25):
For over 30 years on branding and
communications and marketing,working for companies, global
companies, and now I'm actuallyable to spend my time doing this
, writing books about branding,taking all the knowledge I have.
I mean I go back my days when Iwas in an advertising agency
and what I know today and what Iknew then, I wish, I wish
(00:50):
somebody had, you know, taken measide and explained to me what
a brand was.
You know when I look at it, youknow from the.
Again, I'd read everything thatwas available at the time, way
back when, you know, I workedfor Ogilvy, so David Ogilvy was
one of the mentors thatdefinitely I followed.
But really, I mean, todayunderstanding what a brand is is
(01:12):
very different than it was.
Eric Eden (01:17):
Congratulations on that retirement.
Some of us are not retired,we're just tired.
So that must be great for youand you're well.
You're well earned after 30years, so I'm glad to have you
here and talking about it.
And you've also written a book,like you mentioned.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour books, just so people know
what your body of work is?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (01:37):
there I write a blog on branding.
That's kind of how I startedthis whole journey and I
stumbled upon, you know, a womanback in the 1810, viv Clicquot,
the champagne, and BarbaraNicole Clicquot-Pasarden was the
(01:58):
founder and the owner and theactual brand builder that was
behind that champagne and itreally got me thinking about.
Are there other women out therethat I don't, because I did not
know Veuve?
I don't know if you speakFrench, I don't, but Veuve is
widow.
So when I found out she had puton the bottleow Clicquot, I go
(02:27):
why?
Why would you put Widow?
So, anyways, you'll have toread the book to find out more
about them.
But where that book took me tothis next book was I framed out
what I call the five Cs ofbranding.
I needed some sort of way tocompartmentalize what a brand is
and how can you infect it andnot infect it, but how do you
(02:52):
influence it?
And so I came up with the fiveCs.
And the five Cs is really thefoundation for my second book,
which is Loyalnomics, the Powerof Branding, and it's taking the
holistic viewpoint of what abrand is.
And I love to give mydefinition, if you'll allow me,
(03:12):
of what a brand is because Ithink it's so important to
understand what it is thatyou're trying to do, and so
definition, very simply, is abrand isn't what it does or says
, but how it makes its customerfeel.
Now, it's a very similar toMaya Angelou.
Absolutely, I've taken one ofthe greatest quotes in the world
(03:34):
, but what I'm really trying tosay here is that it's the
feeling that the customer has.
Now, if I knew that when I wasworking in advertising, wow, I
would have been able to havedone probably better work all
the time, because I would havehad a better measuring stick as
to the success of every campaignthat I did.
Eric Eden (03:58):
I think that's a great point.
How something makes thecustomer feel is huge.
You know you can do a verystrong, aggressive sales pitch
and feel good that you toutedall of the features of your
products and you got in all thepoints, but if it leaves people
(04:21):
feeling yucky, that's not greatright.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (04:23):
Well, and you know what.
There are some brands that wantto make you feel yucky.
You know.
If you start looking at some ofthe brands, you know Stop
Smoking, I think, is a reallygood example.
There are lots of differentemotions.
They're not all necessarilypositive emotions, and so you
can use negative emotions justas effectively, but understand
what you're trying to do.
(04:44):
But branding to me is about allthose touch points.
So you know everybody, you knowgoes oh yeah, it's the
advertising.
Well, yeah, it is, and it isthe marketing, it is the product
, but it's also your employees,it's also your stakeholders.
You know your influencers whoare out there, you know talking
about you in a, you know, apositive way.
(05:06):
So to me it's that very highlevel.
Look at what is it that you'redoing?
Every touch point builds onthat feeling of what that brand
is it's really the whole vibe,not just the advertising.
I agree, yes so you know, and alot of brands, they really, you
(05:26):
know, the, the the weakest, thethe weakest link is, generally,
you know, the salesperson.
It's the person that's got, youknow, the less invested in the
business.
Uh, you know, doesn'tunderstand possibly what the
brand actually stands for andand that's the transaction.
That's where you get to touchpoint.
That's one of the biggest touchpoints that brands have, so it
(05:51):
becomes a really important onefrom looking at it from again
very high level perspective.
Eric Eden (05:59):
So can you give an example from recent times?
You have such an illustriouscareer of someone either one of
your clients that you've workedwith on branding or something
that you've worked on either way, where you think they embody
the best success, and donesomething really remarkable
(06:20):
branding-wise that you'd like tohighlight?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (06:22):
So I'm going to highlight and I did not
work on it directly, but I dida whole bunch of research and I
wrote an article on it, and it'salso an example in my book,
loyalnomics, because I use a lotof examples of addressing what
I'm saying because there'stheory and then there's
expertise, but, as you're askinghere today, where did the
(06:44):
rubber hit the road and how wasit successful?
And I think, before I actuallyget into this example, one of
the trends that I'm seeing today, which I think is really
important for people tounderstand, is a brand.
Today is far more importantbecause the actual product in a
lot of cases isn't physical.
When you start looking at Uber,you look at a lot of these
(07:13):
things that are.
And so the example I'm going touse here today, which is really
interesting because it startedoff as a brand before it became
a product and that was liquiddeath.
Now, I don't know if you knowliquid death, Liquid death is a
water, okay, spring water.
Okay, it's spring water, butit's in a can, you know, and
it's in a large can, and itstarted out this and the person
(07:38):
behind this brand is fromadvertising and he actually
started this whole brand.
Bit of a lark as to see if hecould build a brand, and so he
did.
He built this brand.
He brought you know, figuredout sort of what it was going to
feel like, look like, andstarted with social media.
(07:59):
It went viral.
They did a video and it starteda following.
Had no product and the reasonthey came up with this canned
product was they actuallystarted.
He'd noticed at a couple ofdifferent concerts he went to
that the musicians were drinkingout of cans, out of other
(08:20):
products that were out there andgoing have a Red Bull.
You know like five Red Bulls ona stage.
So it was water.
They were actually puttingwater in there, but they wanted
to look cool.
You know they didn't want tohave just a water bottle on the
stage.
So that was the concept.
The concept came from this ideathat there are people out there
(08:42):
that want to have a water whenyou're partying, you're out and
you know health is, is a is areally important aspect in
today's culture, and so hestarted this whole idea.
But he built the brand first andyou know, in history I've
(09:02):
looked at many brands and howthey start and they don't start
with a brand.
Apple never started with abrand.
Apple started with a productand most, most companies start
that way and the reason being isbecause they have a, they have
a solution.
There's a problem out there.
They built something.
(09:22):
It's physical and they've gotsomething to sell because it's
solving a problem.
Eventually they get to thebrand Because the brand, as I
said, it's owned by the customer.
So whether you do anythingconsciously about the brand, it
will live with or without youBecause you know it's owned by
(09:45):
the customer.
Now you can consciously startbuilding a brand and I, you know
, I looked at Liquid Death and Ithought, you know, this is a
really good example ofconsciously building a brand.
Before the product and thatproduct sold out, they had no
distribution.
They finally found a company inEurope.
(10:06):
They could not find Because, ifyou start looking at the
production of water, generallythe packaging is near the source
and there was no packaging thatcould handle cans, because most
can products didn't need to beby the water source directly.
(10:28):
So I only found one in Europe.
So I had to get a whole, Ithink, boatload of this stuff
because it was cheaper to get.
I was supposed to get a coupleof and it was sold out on Amazon
because that's the only networkhe had to get this product out
(10:50):
and it was sold out because ofthe brand and you can imagine by
putting it on Amazon.
It's not going to be cheap, butit wasn't.
Eric Eden (11:01):
And so how did liquid death succeed by making people
feel a certain way?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (11:07):
So it was cool and coolness is.
I mean, I've listened to one ofyour podcasts, earlier I think,
with Justin Oberman, who talkedabout personal branding, which
I thought was really good.
I mean, he's a bright man andyou know he talked about fame
and you know being famous andyou know I think famous is
(11:31):
really important.
I take a different approach.
To me, it's being cool.
If a brand's cool, it doesn'thave to be trendy.
It can be, but you got to be onthe leading edge.
You've got to be ahead of thegame.
You've got to have an attitude.
You've got to have.
You know there's people outthere you go.
(11:55):
I go back to my example of youknow, going to school there was
cool kids and you know you kindof look and go what makes them
different than me.
I was not a cool kid and youknow it's the way they walk, the
way they talk.
You know there's a panachethere, of sorts.
We look at some brands.
(12:17):
Design becomes hugely important.
The logo becomes, the colorpalette becomes really important
.
There's all these differentsignals that give you that
coolness.
That give you that coolness.
Famous is about people wantingto know you, people that do know
you, that you're out there allthe time and that's really hard,
(12:38):
but you can be really cool andyou don't have to be out there.
Eric Eden (12:42):
It's interesting because, at the end of the day,
a lot of products are verysimilar.
Right, they do things slightlydifferently or slightly better
in some ways than others, butwater being a good example.
I mean, there's all differentbrands of water that you can buy
, but it's water.
It largely tastes the same,with maybe a slight difference.
(13:04):
But it's interesting that howsomething makes people feel is
what drives people to be loyaland make repeat purchases.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (13:16):
Right, and that's what makes it so
interesting, because we're humanand you know it is about
feeling.
At the end of the day, we are arational creature as well.
Yeah, absolutely you know.
But you know, talk to anybodythat's bought a house, you know,
and, and they'll give you allthe rational.
It's near the schools.
Really, one of the best schools, it's this.
(13:36):
It's near this transit, blah,blah.
But that's not the reason whythey bought it.
That's the rational reason thatthey've justified.
They walked in, they felt it.
You feel these things, and sothat part, I think, is hugely
important.
You're right about water.
The reason why I use thatexample is because it's water,
(13:59):
it's H2O.
There's a great little you goon YouTube of a test done of
using New York water and theydid a blind test of several of
the top bottled waters and theNew York tap water.
Guess who?
Which?
Guess which one one.
(14:19):
It was the New York tap water,that one.
So I mean it's water.
I do not know of any connoisseurof.
I you know I love wine and I'dlove to be a connoisseur of wine
, but I don't know anybody thatyou know can decipher one water
from another water, and that was, you know, interesting.
(14:41):
Going back to liquid death.
That was not his driver.
He was not pursuing to get thebest product out there.
Okay, putting it in a can madeit cooler.
Also.
He argued and argues, and thebrand argues, that it's more
environmentally friendly becausethere is a recycling program,
(15:03):
because of all the bottled orcanned beer and canned pops that
are out there, that thisproduct is being recycled.
So there is a positive otheraspect to it.
But you know the actual waterinside.
Eric Eden (15:21):
Interesting.
So I'm going to give you myfavorite brand loyalty example
because I think, as a whole, youknow people are very emotional
about brand loyalty and the onethat I'd be emotional about is
Marriott's loyalty program,bonvoy, which I think with over
a billion people in it, becausethey have 8,000 hotels around
(15:43):
the world and they're alwaysencouraging anyone who stays at
their hotel to sign up for it.
I think it's one of the largestloyalty programs out there.
And because my personal travelis hobbying my personal hobby is
traveling.
I've been to 63 countries andstayed in different types of
Marriott hotels all over theworld and I like the Marriott
(16:08):
Bonvoy program because of how itmakes me feel In the sense of
they have these levels and youdo get benefits and they
recognize that you're a loyalcustomer.
I happen to be the top levelambassador elite and when you
check in they say thank you forbeing an ambassador elite with
us and you get great benefits,everything from late checkout to
(16:33):
20% discount on food andbeverage, to upgraded rooms
really great benefits.
They recognize that you're loyalto them and that's a great
feeling.
And a funny thing is this onelady behind me in line was new
to Stanky Marriott's and shesaid what country are you an
ambassador from?
But you know, I think, jokingaside, it does make me, you know
(17:00):
, feel a certain way to be apart of that, when a lot of
hotels there's a lot of othernice hotels you can stay at,
like very high end hotels, likeFour Seasons, that have equally
great five-star experiences, butthey don't actually have a
loyalty program and they don'tactually seem to care as much if
(17:20):
I'm loyal to them when I travelaround the world.
And so I think it's veryinteresting, both from a B2B and
a B2C perspective, how peoplefeel about the brands, because I
will almost always stay at aMarriott for that reason.
They get my repeat businessevery year and it's cool.
(17:42):
It's not because of thebenefits of the program, while
they're good, it's because youfeel like you're part of
something right.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (17:50):
Eric, that's a wonderful example.
I'm also a member of theirawards program.
I'm a lifetime Platinum member,so I've been using them quite a
bit as well.
And if I've got the time, onesmall little story, because it's
a side story to how you feelwhen you walk into the place and
(18:11):
how they feel I used to getcards from people because I was
a frequent flyer as well and Iwould stay at the same place
multiple times and the staff Iknew them by name and they knew
me by name because I was thereso often and that actually was.
(18:31):
I continually said this was mysecond in a business, it was
humid, it was hot and I needed acab and I was trying to get a
cab, an Uber, I was trying toget anything, but I needed one
really quick because I was latefor a meeting.
It was like four blocks, itwasn't that far, but it was so
humid that I did not want to goin a suit, you know, in a tie
(18:54):
and absolutely soaking wet, andwalk into that meeting.
So across the street was a, wasa hotel, you know, and
generally you can get a okay,fine.
Did he think I was from thehotel?
It didn't seem to matter.
I was in a situation I needed acab very quickly and they
(19:19):
solved my problem, but againthey didn't realize that I was a
customer like I was a majorcustomer for them and they did
that, and I tell that story allthe time.
And they did that and I tellthat story all the time.
So when you have those kinds ofthose moments, those touch
points of a brand, that isunbelievable advertising,
(19:40):
because we're talking about ithere.
Eric Eden (19:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you reap what you sowin those sorts of situations,
and they have the culture ofthat at Marriott, even one of
their many brands, ritz-carlton,they even tell their employees
that they can spend up to acertain amount of money per
customer to just make theirexperience great.
(20:04):
Right, like?
That's an extreme example of it, because they're a five-star
brand, and so I think that thisis really great insight.
I wanted to ask you, based onyour 30 years of experience in
branding, how do people get tocreating a brand that gives the
(20:28):
right feeling Like?
What advice would you givemarketers and business leaders
who want to create a brand thatmakes people feel a certain way?
What are some of the tips you'dhave for people who want to do
that?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (20:41):
So I'm going to draw from the 20 women
that I followed and tried tounderstand how they built their
iconic brands.
These are all big brands andwhat was common amongst all of
them was their passion ofgetting the solution for a
(21:02):
problem and making sure theirproduct was the best product in
the marketplace and they did notcut corners in the marketplace.
And they did not cut cornersand they were absolutely, you
know, driven to ensure theirproduct was the best product on
(21:24):
the market.
So it's not about the best ador the best slogan.
That will follow.
All of those things will follow, as long as you've got the eye
on the right thing, which is theproduct.
Apple, great example Today.
One of the best marketersquestion today is will they be
(21:46):
the best product?
And that's where I think themarket is starting to say
where's the next evolution?
Innovation, Innovation, sorry,and it is about the product or
the service.
So if you go out of your way tomake sure that the experience
(22:10):
is going to be the bestexperience the customer is going
to have, you see luxuryproducts all the time because
they focus on that, because it'sexpected, and so if you
actually focus on giving thebest experience overall
experience but make sure theproduct is the best too.
Eric Eden (22:36):
Yeah, I think the Apple example is an interesting
one because I bought the firstiPhone the first day it came out
, many years ago.
I'm very old and older than theiPhone, in fact, and I've had a
reiteration of it almost sincethen and a lot of people in
recent times, like you're saying, is like, oh, after the 16
(22:56):
versions, like the last 10versions of it, there's not
really much innovation therefrom phone to phone, Like the
camera's a little bit betterevery time and in fact, in the
latest release of the latestphone and the latest version of
iOS, some people have complainedthat like they've completely
messed up the photos app andthey completely have under
(23:16):
delivered on the AI Appleintelligence piece of it.
It's sort of terrible and likethere are certain things with
the iOS operating system andversion the latest version that
people are very unhappy about.
It's like they didn't, and likethere are certain things with
the iOS operating system andversion the latest version that
people are very unhappy about.
It's like they didn't do anyquality control at all.
So I think you know the thing Ilearned from that is that you
have to keep your eye on theball.
(23:37):
Just because you did somethinggreat 15 years ago.
You can't just leave it onautopilot.
You have to continue toinnovate.
You have to continue to deliverthat experience, like you're
saying.
You have to continue toinnovate.
You have to continue to deliverthat experience, like you're
saying, otherwise you couldfumble right.
(24:07):
Yeah Well, there is newinnovations that are happening
every day on the podcast here,and you said that you have some
strong opinions on it.
I'd like to hear what yourviews on it are, because I think
it is relatively controversial.
Some people believe in it,others believe in it less, so
I'm curious what your take on itis.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (24:28):
So I'm glad you started off our discussion
about strategy, because I thinkstrategy is really important and
I see social media as tacticsand so to me, you got to back up
and go.
Do you need to be on socialmedia?
Because that's the delivery.
When you talk about personalbranding, that's where you
(24:52):
deliver most of the content.
And sometimes I wonder maybethis is driven by the social
media organizations that are outthere because they need content
.
So if everyone's a brand, thenyou know they can
compartmentalize you.
And I think what's reallyimportant and actually you know
you had Justin on and I thoughtone of the points he made and I
(25:14):
think it's really important thathe made it, because most people
don't make this point and thatis that you know, when we talk
about personal branding, it'snot to be a brand.
Now there are people out therethat I would say are brands.
Oprah Winfrey is a brand,martha Stewart is a brand, but
(25:35):
her personal life all about heris behind the curtain.
There is a brand in front andyou know she did not accept that
she was a brand for many years.
And there's again on YouTube,there's a great video of her
actually admitting that she's abrand and the reason she
admitted that she's a brand isbecause she understood that
(25:57):
consistency was important inbuilding a brand.
And that's one of the five C'sthat I have when I go through
the sort of the how to build abrand and that consistency
becomes really important.
But for most of us, you know,we don't need to be a box of
(26:17):
cereal, we don't.
You know, there's a great,there's a great quote out there
I don't know who, who actuallycoined it, but I use it often is
brands are trying to be morelike people and people are
trying more to be like a brand,which is kind of funny because
(26:38):
we're far more complex, we arefar more dynamic in and you know
, our personalities are, youknow, we can't conform.
As I said, consistent and it'stwo-dimensional, and what I mean
by two-dimensional is it'sconstructed and so we can learn
(27:02):
from it.
Absolutely, and that's whatJustin mentioned as well.
We can learn from how you knowbuilding a brand and use some of
those, but understand, startingwith your strategy, as to why
do you want to build a brand.
Ideally, you've got a productor service, and if you've got a
(27:22):
product and service, then that'sthe brand that you're trying to
build on your back.
But you also got to understandwhere do you stop and where does
it go.
Because if it's all on you, thebrand, the product stops too,
and that's fine.
If you want to retire like me,if you want to retire like me,
(27:46):
you want hopefully to build abrand that you can sell, that
has value attached to it, thatcan continue, and again that
happens.
I mean, martha Stewart's brandcontinues with or without her,
(28:07):
but that takes time and that'shard.
Eric Eden (28:11):
Absolutely.
I think it's interesting thatpeople in business founders,
business leaders, in particularCEOs have to think about how to
balance their personal brand andtheir company's brand, and I
(28:36):
don't know that it necessarilyneeds to be one or the other.
It's more how do the two worktogether in concert for your
benefit?
I think the benefit of apersonal brand in addition to a
company brand is that nobodylikes to just buy from a
faceless company.
My big question is always isthis a scam or do I believe, if
I'm investing in this companyand their products, that they're
(28:59):
going to be headed in the rightdirection down the road?
I think that's why people getexcited about being customers of
some of the biggest techcompanies, like Salesforce.
People are like Mark Benioffwill lead us to the right way in
being the CEO of Salesforceright.
And similarly, I think a lot ofpeople buy Teslas because of
(29:21):
Elon Musk.
They believe in Elon Musk'svision, in Elon Musk's vision.
So I think there's lots of goodexamples out there of people who
are able to build both theircompany brand of Tesla and Elon
Musk has a great personal brandthat's built on like I'm
successful, I'm really smart, Ihave a vision, and so I think
(29:42):
it's interesting for people tothink about the balance between
those two things.
It's interesting for people tothink about the balance between
those two things and you know, Idon't think the right balance
is to completely over index onone or the other for the reasons
you were saying.
Like, if you make it all aboutyour personal brand and not your
(30:03):
company, then that's probablytoo extreme.
And if you make it all aboutthe company and there's no
personality behind it, thenpeople like to buy from people,
not just faceless entities.
So I think that balance isinteresting.
Have you seen that?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (30:14):
Yeah, I have, and I mean Tesla is a
really good example.
I mean, if he disappears, willthat brand be the same brand
Apple?
We had the same situation inApple.
(30:37):
So people want to buy frompeople.
I get that, but people changeand people aren't here 150 years
.
There are brands out there thatare 150 years old and there's
even older brands than 150.
And so I get that people wantto buy from people, but if the
(31:09):
brand is trusted and isconsistent continuously, you
don't need people on that.
I spend a lot of time in my booktalking about mascots, because
mascots are a nice way to bridgethat Human qualities, human
attributes but they're not real.
And with AI today, how real canthese mascots be?
(31:35):
Probably really real.
But they're controllable, theywill be consistent and that is
one of the I mean Quaker Oats,great example of a mascot that's
been on McDonald's.
Ronald McDonald, good exampleof a mascot that is the face and
(32:01):
it's a consistent face.
Language doesn't matter, so itgoes across countries, cultures.
So I look at mascots and going.
Mascots have been looked at andgoing.
Those are something that backin the 60s but yes, correct,
(32:23):
back in the 50s and 60s a lot ofthese mascots that exist today
were built then and they'restill relevant today because
they can be tweaked, they can bechanged to the new market, to
the new trends, and so peopleare important, absolutely.
(32:44):
And if you are service-driven,you are the face.
Lawyers, accountants, you arethe face, you are the brand, you
are the.
So it makes perfect sense.
You can be a voice, you couldbe a stakeholder, but you don't
have to be the brand, but youdon't have to be the brand.
Eric Eden (33:09):
It's all about finding balance in the force, I
think, because I think it'sdifferent a little bit for every
business.
I've heard naysayers onpersonal branding say that their
personal brand has not reallydriven their business forward,
Like Neil Patel, who's a famousmarketing podcaster.
He has marketing school.
(33:30):
He said oh, I spent all thistime building my brand of Neil
Patel around.
I'm an SEO expert and he's likeI don't really, for my company,
win any business because of mypersonal brand anymore and he's
like I just focus on you know,you know, replying to RFPs, and
I don't get RFPs because of mypersonal brand, and so I don't
(34:06):
think it's cookie cutter forevery business that you run a
service business, or if yourbusiness lends itself to you,
it'll help you stand out,differentiate from a crowded
market.
There are lots of reasons whypeople could find the right
balance between their companybrand and their personal brand,
(34:29):
and I think that's a fascinatingarea of a branding strategy.
So I encourage everyone to getyour books and drill in on that.
And is there anything else thatyou wanted to mention that we
didn't dive into today?
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (34:43):
So no, just again reiterating what you just
said Everyone's different,every brand is different, every
situation is different.
So every tactic isn't going tobe the same.
And I think we're so easy.
We want a solution, right, wewant to give me a solution, give
me a tactic.
What should I do?
And really, what you need toreally understand is what is
(35:05):
your strategy, what is it thatyou're really trying to achieve?
And get to that higher level.
Really understand is what isyour strategy, what is it that
you're really trying to achieve?
And get to that higher level ofunderstanding of what is it you
want to do.
I mean, you have to invest alot of time as a person to your
business and to your brand andyou've got to ask the question,
like how much do I need to do aspart of the brand or being the
(35:31):
brand of that success?
So, go back to the strategy, goback to understanding what is
it that you're really trying toachieve?
I mean a lot of services thatare out there.
How many clients do you need?
Like, do you need a brandthat's global or across North
(35:52):
America?
Do you need 10,000 followerswhen you really only need 100
customers?
Don't know.
Eric Eden (36:02):
Great advice Start with a strategy and work
backwards from that.
Again, I'm going to link toyour website and your books in
the show notes so people can getthem easily and check them out
and get in touch if they want tochat more with you about this
topic.
Thanks so much for being withus today and sharing these
(36:24):
stories and your insights.
We appreciate it.
Kim Derrick Rozdeba (36:27):
Thank you, Eric.
I enjoyed the conversation withyou today.
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