December 9, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode, Eric interviews Drew Neisser, founder of CMO Huddles, about building an elite and engaged community for B2B Chief Marketing Officers. Drew shares the background of his transition from running an agency to founding CMO Huddles, the impact of the pandemic on community building, and the significance of creating a virtual-first group.
The discussion covers the importance of fostering peer connections, qualifying members for quality over quantity, and ensuring continuous learning and support for CMOs. The episode also explores innovative and fun approaches like incorporating penguins as a community symbol to make B2B marketing engaging. Drew emphasizes the value of building personal brands and peer networks for CMOs, sharing insights on the challenges and rewards of maintaining such a dynamic community.
00:32 Drew Neiser's Background and CMO Club
01:41 The Start of CMO Huddles
02:16 Building a Virtual Community
05:23 Qualifying Members and Ensuring Quality
06:25 The Importance of B2B Focus
10:08 Making B2B Marketing Fun with Penguins
13:02 The Value of Paid Membership
16:42 Expanding Beyond Virtual: In-Person Events
18:22 Keys to Building an Engaged Community
21:57 The Journey and Future of CMO Huddles
24:53 Invitation to Join CMO Huddles
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:01):
Today we are talking about how to build an elite and
engaged community, and we havethe perfect guest to help us
talk about this Drew Neiser.
Welcome to the show.
Drew Neisser (00:14):
Hey Eric, Thank you so much for having me.
It's really fun to talk.
Eric Eden (00:18):
Now, drew and I have been friends for many, many
years, so I know him very well.
But, drew, for the audience'sbenefit, why don't you take a
minute or two and tell them alittle bit about who you are and
what you do?
Drew Neisser (00:32):
It's so funny because we actually met through
the CMO Club and that's such arelevant part of the story that
I'll tell about CMO Huddles.
But when we met I was runningan agency called Renegade, which
I did for 30 years, but as partof that helping Renegade, we
also were very involved with thevery beginning of the CMO Club
(00:53):
and I remember meeting you thereand one of the things that I
started during that relationshipwas interviewing CMOs and if I
think about the through line ofeverything for CMO huddles, it
all started as a result of meinterviewing really smart people
like you and building theserelationships with chief
(01:15):
marketing officers.
Eric Eden (01:17):
Yeah, the CMO club was a great group of a thousand
CMOs across the country, bothB2C and B2B, and you and I,
particularly, for many years,focused on the B2B part of that.
There's a lot of great B2B CMOsin that group and I think what
you're going to tell us a storyabout is how you decided to do
(01:37):
something similar but muchimproved.
Drew Neisser (01:41):
Well, it's similar and different, and I am
and you're absolutely right.
And the through line is so ourbuddy, pete Krenick, on March
2nd 2020, sold the CMO club toSalesforce and literally that
day I went, oh, that'sinteresting, that's not going to
work.
And then, of course, two weekslater, the pandemic struck and I
said, oh my gosh, that's reallynot going to work.
(02:04):
The reason I was confident itwouldn't work is one eventually
Salesforce would think we got tomonetize this and that would
kind of make it a problem.
And two, once the pandemic hit,said this is a group that was
dependent on meeting in person.
We can build a virtual firstcommunity.
So April 1st 2020, I got 20friends, most of whom were CMs,
who were B2B, who I had probablymet through the club, and we
(02:27):
started huddling.
And here's a crazy thing Overthe next six months we met 55
times and, if you remember,april through September 2020 was
an incredibly turbulent time.
We all learned how to work fromhome.
We all learned how to managefrom home.
We all had to deal withpandemic and what that meant and
(02:49):
the fact that suddenly you hadto do marketing without physical
events for B2B.
That was huge.
And then you had Black LivesMatter and just so many things
happened that summer that,through the course of it, what
was great was this group saidthese 18 to 20 CMOs said Drew,
there's a business here, here'show you should set it up, here's
(03:09):
what you should charge.
And so, october 1st 2020, weturned on CMO Huddles as a paid
business.
Eric Eden (03:17):
And so you moved from running an agency into building
this community of chiefmarketing officers, which is
definitely a niche that isreally important, and the people
who are in those jobs.
They have a tough job and theyneed their peers to support them
(03:39):
because they don't get supportin the corporate structure like
a lot of other roles do.
Right.
Drew Neisser (03:45):
Oh, exactly, and you know this.
I mean, you've been a CMO manytimes and you're sitting in a
group of a board meeting, theseleadership team meeting, and
there isn't a single person inthat room who understands
marketing, who understands howthe pieces fit together, and so
it's incredibly lonely and youcan't tell your peer, the folks
(04:05):
that work with you, that youdon't know something.
So in an ideal world, you haveinstant access to 150 really
smart CMOs who share yourchallenges and, with a quick
email, say, hey, here's mychallenge, who can I talk to?
And that's been fundamental toCMO huddles from the beginning,
(04:28):
this notion of peer matching andso forth.
But what's interesting is thecommon thread through all of the
folks is this notion ofcuriosity, a consistent
curiosity.
And it's really simple.
My qualifying question for theCMOs of CMO huddles is name two
challenges that you would loveto go deep on with another CMO.
(04:50):
And if folks can't think of twochallenges right off the top of
their head, they are simply tooincurious.
They have all the answers,they're done, they're finished,
it's great, god bless them, butfor the rest of us it is a never
ending learning curve.
Eric Eden (05:08):
And so you've built up this group of highly
qualified people.
You're pretty tight about whoyou let in to over 300 people,
and it's not about quantity,it's about quality.
Right, talk a little bit aboutthat and how you sort of qualify
(05:29):
people to let them be in thegroup.
Drew Neisser (05:31):
Yeah, and so you're right.
It's such an important thingand so, in part of ingrained
into CMO huddles, I don't thinkabout it that much.
But we have a North star whichis is it good for the huddler?
And that's like.
That allows us to make everydecision and push decisions down
, because if it's good for thehuddler, anybody on the team can
do it, If it's not, or you havea question about it, and that
(05:55):
makes it really easy when we'requalifying people.
Does this person bringsomething to the table?
Because we can't just havefolks who are like their first
time CMOs and they don't knowwhat they're doing and they're
just so needy.
We have to have folks that alsohave answers, who've done this
many times.
That doesn't mean everyone inthe community has to be that way
(06:15):
, but you need to be able tobring some depth of expertise in
some area.
So when we set up a one-on-one,there's a give and a get.
Eric Eden (06:25):
And I think the focus on B2B because B2B and B2C are
different is again.
Drew Neisser (06:31):
I was part of the club for 12 years and in the
last four I was running the B2Bcurriculum and, god bless Pete,
(06:55):
he put on incredible events.
But when I was in charge of theB2B portion, I would fight to
get three sessions and they werenever mainstay sessions.
And the challenge is, theconversations when you bring a
group of B2B CMOs together arevery different than the
conversations that B2C have.
(07:16):
It's just they are this and asmuch as we're all selling to
people and you'll hear that blahblah, blah blah about it's not
B2B or B2C, it's B2H or H2H.
The truth is it's fundamentallydifferent.
They're different inside theorganization and it's different
outside the organization and themotions are different and there
(07:36):
are things that they can learnfrom each other.
But I so love the fact that weare only B to B and so does our
community.
Eric Eden (07:46):
Yeah, because it's a lot more relevant.
You can't really get the samelearnings if people don't look
like what you're trying to do.
Drew Neisser (07:58):
If they look, fundamentally different, right,
yeah, and the interesting ones,where it gets a little dicey is
the B2B2C, because they and it'sfunny, I've sort of come to
this notion that I really wantto talk to a lot more B2B2C
because they do, living in bothworlds, they do more interesting
marketing than the folks thatare just B2B.
Their conversations aredifferent, their challenges,
their stress levels aredifferent and in terms of what
(08:21):
is causing them stress, yeah,and so this was really easy to
do, right.
Oh my gosh.
So you know, let's justconsider the life of a.
So in the last four and a halfor or almost five years now, has
seen a CMO tenure gotten longer?
No, so does that mean that weare dealing with a group of
(08:42):
folks that started join and thensuddenly, 18 months in, they're
out of work and we suddenlyneed to support them in
transition, which we do.
So you have that issue.
You have the issue that CMOsdon't seem to be completely in
control of their time, becauseyou have CEOs and board members
(09:02):
who feel like they could justjump in.
So getting this community toengage, keeping them as members,
attracting new ones, andgetting them to have the courage
to say I need this to do my jobbetter, all of those things are
hard, and so I so appreciateyou interviewing me here, and
hopefully other CMOs will do it,because when they have these
(09:25):
conversations and it's amazingthing, when you come to a huddle
, inevitably someone will sharea challenge and then another
person will say, oh my God, Ihave that same challenge.
Thank you, because it's likeI'm not alone, but it's hard.
Running a community is not easyand you always have the
(09:49):
challenge of and our retentionrate is really good, assuming
they keep their jobs.
But it's hard, and it's hardand there's lots of competition
coming at it from differentangles and you have to be nimble
and continue to evolve theproducts.
And this gets us to thepenguins.
Eric Eden (10:08):
I think you've done some things to make B2B
marketing not boring withpenguins.
Drew Neisser (10:14):
Why don't?
Eric Eden (10:14):
you share a little bit about what you're doing with
that.
Drew Neisser (10:17):
Yeah.
So a couple of years ago I wasdown in the Galapagos after we
had spent time in the sea andactually swimming around with
penguins.
The naturalist at that eveningsaid, hey, what's a group of
penguins called?
And the answer was a huddle andit was like the light bulbs
went off.
I literally texted our artdirector and said I want a
(10:39):
penguin on top of our logo andby the time we got back for the
Galapagos we did have thepenguins embedded.
I changed my title to Penguinin Chief.
I started wearing this wheneverwe record our Tuesday tips, this
little penguin hat, and it'sremarkable the parallels between
(10:59):
penguins.
But the whole point of it is wecan have some fun.
We're a B2B brand but we don'thave to take ourselves serious.
We take the work very seriouslyand these little guys, these
little stress balls, are just areminder that whenever you have
a challenge, know that yeah, youcan squeeze this, but you can
squeeze our community for relief.
You can get the value you need,because it's a hard, hard job
(11:25):
and we got to have a little funalong the way.
Eric Eden (11:35):
I think that one of the things that you and others
in the group have talked aboutis is that, broadly within their
own companies, chief marketingofficers, like the marketing
that they and their teams do,can't be boring, because people
don't want just buzzword bingo,they want something that's
interesting, and you can makejust about anything interesting,
right?
Drew Neisser (11:51):
You can.
I mean, I go back to, I mean,years ago worked on packaged
goods and one of the products inour portfolio besides Listerine
was a hemorrhoid remedy calledAnusol, and we actually managed
to make that interesting by weactually hired some really
interesting talent and you coulddo it, it's possible.
(12:14):
So if you can make hemorrhoidremedies interesting, surely you
can find something in B2B tokeep it from being boring.
And it has a ripple effecteverywhere.
Employees are happier,Customers go oh, I like what
you're doing there, so yeah, butman, I got to tell you right
now B2B is more boring than less.
(12:36):
I mean, if I see anotherwebsite with AI-driven, AI-built
, AI-inspired people, it's notgoing to work.
AI washing isn't going to workany better than greenwashing did
.
Eric Eden (12:53):
People got to get a little bit more creative and B2B
broadly.
I think that's a good takeawayfor a lot of people.
One of the things that you'vedone to make the group
successful is you do have peoplepay to be a part of the group,
and I think this is interestingbecause there's a lot of
(13:15):
communities or groups onlinethat are free and most of them
don't work.
So why don't you just talk alittle bit about that?
Because I think if you investnothing, you get nothing is the
way I look at a lot of marketing.
I'm just curious what yourexperience has been in building
the community and having peopleput some money behind their time
.
Drew Neisser (13:35):
Look, there's no doubt that if someone is paying
for it they're going to payattention, but it also just
allows us to keep the quality ofeverything higher and the
quality of the service.
And so you know, we sort oflook at this in in.
In CMO huddles is there sort ofthree key components peers, pr
and and penguins, and then the.
(13:57):
You know, the peers part is isreally important and so if we
notice, for example, you haven'tbeen able to make a huddle in a
couple of months, we'll findwe'll set you up with a
one-on-one, because we know wecan get value there and we know
we have enough information onthat because you can't always
make it to a huddle.
We wouldn't be able to affordto do that to staff it.
(14:18):
That's part one.
Part two of this is that one ofthe things that CMOs
classically do is neglect theirpersonal brands.
We refuse to let CMOs do that.
We get them on our livestreaming show, we get them on
the podcast, we get them in theTuesday tips and so, again, they
(14:40):
wouldn't do this on their ownand we sort of force it.
But we couldn't do it if itwasn't a paid community.
The other part of it is justthat it acts as a qualifier and
it just keeps folks thatshouldn't be there from joining.
Eric Eden (14:58):
Yeah, I mean you get what you pay for, so if you
don't pay anything, you're notreally going to get much from it
.
I think it comes back to that.
But it's not prohibitivelyexpensive and I think that the
reason you've been successful inbuilding the group and having
people stay in for a long timeis because they pay a little bit
and they get a lot of value.
So it's a great qualifierversus Reddit groups, which are
(15:21):
free but are also Right, andjust consider this.
Drew Neisser (15:25):
I mean one of the things that the remarkable
parts and I love this.
So, during CMO Huddle Studio,which is a live streaming show
that we do, then that becomes apodcast.
We have three guests and Iactually ask the guests in the
middle of the show if they haveanything nice to say about CMO
Huddles.
And what's interesting is weget a lot of wonderful feedback
and that makes me feel good.
(15:46):
But one of the CMOs almostevery single time says I was
reading a recap or a newsletter.
And they get a recap everysingle week that I edit.
Our open rate on those is over80%.
They say I put this in front ofour CEO because there was
information there that wasreally timely, or I had our team
look at this because you weretalking about that.
(16:07):
That's having a meaningfulimpact on the business.
The fact that an email getsopened is crazy and, again, a
lot of time goes into editingthose things to make sure and
this is not something you canrun through Chad TPT and say,
hey, it's time of a very senior,experienced individual looking
(16:32):
at this stuff and helping turnit into information that CMOs
will find valuable.
So, again, couldn't do that ifit was free.
Eric Eden (16:40):
And you also expanded the group.
Now that we've all survivedCOVID, you've expanded the group
into doing things like dinnersand in-person events like the
Super Huddle.
Talk a little bit about thatgrowth.
Drew Neisser (16:56):
This was, in truth, probably something I
should have done three years agoor two years ago, but I knew
how much work it was going to be.
We had our first Super Huddlelast November.
You were there.
It was really an incrediblething.
We had over 100 folks crammedinto a ballroom.
Incredible thing.
We had over a hundred folkscrammed into a ballroom and it
(17:17):
was rapid fire content and folkswere really, really engaged.
And it was amazing to havefolks that had huddlers, as we
call them, who had been onlytogether virtually to physically
meet and do that.
That was great.
And I knew this was importantbecause, look, in CMO Club Pete,
I'm the only other person whowent to all 24 of their summits
(17:40):
over a 12-year period.
I went to every single one ofthem and I know the value of
this.
I was just a little bit worriedabout stressing our
organization and so I gottricked into it because I
thought I was going to do alunch out there in November, and
then I thought I was going todo a lunch out there in November
, and then I thought I was goingto have free space and the next
thing, you know, we had fourmonths to plan an event for over
a hundred people.
So it was a minor miracle, butit was an extraordinary thing
(18:03):
and we've already decided we'lldo it again next year.
And then in between we domainly lunch huddles, because
it's really hard to get peopleto come in for a dinner these
days, but we do those inmultiple markets and we'll
probably do 10 to 15 of those inthe next year because, again,
there's nothing likeface-to-face.
Eric Eden (18:22):
What else would you say has been part of the reason
that you've been able to buildthis elite and engaged community
?
Is there any other part of theformula here that has led to the
great collaborations betweenthe people in the group?
Drew Neisser (18:42):
I think the thing that we've continued to try is
find different ways for CMOs toconnect with each other.
That, at the core, is what thisis about.
So we do have a Slack channeland certain members of our
community are highly engaged andfind that hugely valuable.
Our CMO Huddle Studio Show,ironically, where you have three
(19:04):
CMOs.
That often is a way that theybecome bonded the Lunch Huddle.
You have to have different waysfor CMOs to connect and of
course you have to havedifferent ways for CMOs to
connect and, of course, theone-on-ones that we arrange and
that takes two right.
We say, hey, you two shouldtalk.
The CMOs have to make the timeto do it and there's just a lot
(19:26):
of myriad of details behind thescenes.
There are probably a couplehundred EAs that we built
relationships with that we relyon to make sure that the folks
can they make this huddle If not, and work with them to manage
it.
It's a lot of detail andfollow-up with folks to just
(19:50):
make sure that the content'sright.
Oh, and I know one other thingIn addition to the peer huddles,
we bring in experts,bestselling authors as well as
experts on things, and we try tomake this really timely.
So no surprise.
In 2024, we probably had sixbonus huddles related to
generative AI as CMOs weregrappling with how to do it Next
(20:12):
year.
I've already got two scheduledon this CRO thing.
Are they friend or enemy?
Are we going to be reporting tothem and, if so, or could a CMO
become one?
And so it's not quitenewsjacking, but we're trying to
stay a little bit ahead ofwhere the CMO are and make sure
that we're getting thatinformation and bringing in
(20:32):
experts to them, because theydon't have time to do it.
Eric Eden (20:36):
That's amazing.
So, as a result of all thesedifferent ways to collaborate
over the last couple of years,have you seen the chief
marketing officers that are inthe group supporting each other
and, as a result, being able todo some pretty amazing,
(20:57):
remarkable things at theircompanies because of the support
they got from each other?
Drew Neisser (21:01):
Absolutely.
I think the biggest thing isthe confidence that you have.
You've not only got your teaminvolved, but you vetted it with
whatever it is that big thing.
You either got inspired byanother CMO or you vetted it
through a conversation.
I was thinking about this whatdo you think?
And it gives you the confidenceto sort of say no, that request
(21:23):
, that was wrong.
I can push back on the PE firmor the VC firm because they're
just not coming from a placethat makes sense.
But if you don't have sort ofthis resource of other CMOs are
going through the same challenge, it's hard to be confident.
And if you don't have theconfidence, you're not going to
be able to sell it.
Eric Eden (21:44):
I think confidence and belief go hand in hand, and
giving people the belief that,oh, other people are doing this
successfully, I can do itsuccessfully too is pretty
powerful.
What made you decide back in2020 to make this the focus,
(22:05):
instead of doing the otherthings you were doing running a
very successful agency thethings you were doing running a
very successful agency.
What made you passionate aboutcreating this sort of elite and
engaged community?
Drew Neisser (22:18):
Well, I hedged bets here and here's the key
thing when we started CMOHuddles, renegade was the
business and had been a businessof mine.
And I mean, eric, you were amulti-time client and I loved
running an agency.
But I'd been a renegade for along time and when we started
Huddles, I wasn't sure it couldbe a business, a standalone
(22:39):
business.
So I hedged a little bit but in2023, by three years into it,
it was clear it was a business.
It was clear that this was theright time for me to make that
pivot and I found myself gettinga lot more joy out of this
business, where I get to talkand work with a lot of CMOs and
(23:04):
help me, than I did as runningan agency.
And I think that's just sort ofa very individual journey that
I've had and I just feel sofortunate.
All that legwork, all thoseinterviews I mean it's over 600.
I didn't know how that wouldpay off and I think this is a
career lesson.
Eric Eden (23:21):
Sometimes you do things like you're doing with
the podcast you don't know whereit'll go, but it certainly
ended in a wonderful place place, and probably the timeline you
just mentioned suggests that youhave to put some significant
time into these things, like youtested it for quite a while
(23:41):
before you came to thatconclusion.
Right, it wasn't like a week ora month or even a year.
It was being consistent aboutit and Ford investing in it, and
then you're like, oh, there'ssomething here.
After a couple of years it'sreally built into something
interesting.
But I think a lot of peoplethink that success comes
overnight and I think withbuilding communities that's
(24:03):
definitely not true.
Drew Neisser (24:05):
Yeah, oh gosh.
No, it takes time and it'sbrick by brick and you have to
really be careful that there's ahigh value proposition at the
beginning so that your corepeople stay with you, because
you can'tMO huddles sort of oneCMO at a time and now we're
(24:38):
looking to scale it withinreason.
We don't have any investors, Idon't have an end line where I
have to hit a certain target, soreally it's about how many CMOs
can we help?
Eric Eden (24:54):
Really, it's about how many CMOs can we help.
If B2B marketing leaders areinterested in being part of the
group, they can go tocmohuddlescom and book a
one-on-one with you and get somemore one-on-one perspective
with me about this.
Drew Neisser (25:05):
Yeah, and we'll give them a guest pass which
will enable them to experiencegetting the recaps.
To come to one of our huddles,and we have at least five
huddles every month, includingthree period huddles, a bonus
huddle and a career huddle withthe bestselling authors.
So, yeah, you get a month totry it and we make sure that you
have a really positiveexperience.
Eric Eden (25:28):
Awesome.
Encourage everyone strongly todo that.
If you are a B2B marketingleader, get into the Penguin
Club.
You will not regret it and itwon't be boring either.
Drew Neisser (25:39):
Any final thoughts, Drew I would simply
say two things that every CMOthat I talked to who's in
transition.
They have two regrets.
One, they didn't build theirpeer network.
Two, they didn't build theirpersonal brands.
Joining CMO Huddle solves thosetwo things in a very easy and
fun and really enriching way.
So yeah, come on down.
Eric Eden (26:01):
Awesome.
Thanks so much for being withus today.
Thanks for being on the show.
We appreciate it.
Hey, derek, thank you.
Today we are talking about how to build an elite and
engaged community, and we havethe perfect guest to help us
talk about this Drew Neiser.
Welcome to the show.
Drew Neisser (00:14):
Hey Eric, Thank you so much for having me.
It's really fun to talk.
Eric Eden (00:18):
Now, drew and I have been friends for many, many
years, so I know him very well.
But, drew, for the audience'sbenefit, why don't you take a
minute or two and tell them alittle bit about who you are and
what you do?
Drew Neisser (00:32):
It's so funny because we actually met through
the CMO Club and that's such arelevant part of the story that
I'll tell about CMO Huddles.
But when we met I was runningan agency called Renegade, which
I did for 30 years, but as partof that helping Renegade, we
also were very involved with thevery beginning of the CMO Club
(00:53):
and I remember meeting you thereand one of the things that I
started during that relationshipwas interviewing CMOs and if I
think about the through line ofeverything for CMO huddles, it
all started as a result of meinterviewing really smart people
like you and building theserelationships with chief
(01:15):
marketing officers.
Eric Eden (01:17):
Yeah, the CMO club was a great group of a thousand
CMOs across the country, bothB2C and B2B, and you and I,
particularly, for many years,focused on the B2B part of that.
There's a lot of great B2B CMOsin that group and I think what
you're going to tell us a storyabout is how you decided to do
(01:37):
something similar but muchimproved.
Drew Neisser (01:41):
Well, it's similar and different, and I am
and you're absolutely right.
And the through line is so ourbuddy, pete Krenick, on March
2nd 2020, sold the CMO club toSalesforce and literally that
day I went, oh, that'sinteresting, that's not going to
work.
And then, of course, two weekslater, the pandemic struck and I
said, oh my gosh, that's reallynot going to work.
(02:04):
The reason I was confident itwouldn't work is one eventually
Salesforce would think we got tomonetize this and that would
kind of make it a problem.
And two, once the pandemic hit,said this is a group that was
dependent on meeting in person.
We can build a virtual firstcommunity.
So April 1st 2020, I got 20friends, most of whom were CMs,
who were B2B, who I had probablymet through the club, and we
(02:27):
started huddling.
And here's a crazy thing Overthe next six months we met 55
times and, if you remember,april through September 2020 was
an incredibly turbulent time.
We all learned how to work fromhome.
We all learned how to managefrom home.
We all had to deal withpandemic and what that meant and
(02:49):
the fact that suddenly you hadto do marketing without physical
events for B2B.
That was huge.
And then you had Black LivesMatter and just so many things
happened that summer that,through the course of it, what
was great was this group saidthese 18 to 20 CMOs said Drew,
there's a business here, here'show you should set it up, here's
(03:09):
what you should charge.
And so, october 1st 2020, weturned on CMO Huddles as a paid
business.
Eric Eden (03:17):
And so you moved from running an agency into building
this community of chiefmarketing officers, which is
definitely a niche that isreally important, and the people
who are in those jobs.
They have a tough job and theyneed their peers to support them
(03:39):
because they don't get supportin the corporate structure like
a lot of other roles do.
Right.
Drew Neisser (03:45):
Oh, exactly, and you know this.
I mean, you've been a CMO manytimes and you're sitting in a
group of a board meeting, theseleadership team meeting, and
there isn't a single person inthat room who understands
marketing, who understands howthe pieces fit together, and so
it's incredibly lonely and youcan't tell your peer, the folks
(04:05):
that work with you, that youdon't know something.
So in an ideal world, you haveinstant access to 150 really
smart CMOs who share yourchallenges and, with a quick
email, say, hey, here's mychallenge, who can I talk to?
And that's been fundamental toCMO huddles from the beginning,
(04:28):
this notion of peer matching andso forth.
But what's interesting is thecommon thread through all of the
folks is this notion ofcuriosity, a consistent
curiosity.
And it's really simple.
My qualifying question for theCMOs of CMO huddles is name two
challenges that you would loveto go deep on with another CMO.
(04:50):
And if folks can't think of twochallenges right off the top of
their head, they are simply tooincurious.
They have all the answers,they're done, they're finished,
it's great, god bless them, butfor the rest of us it is a never
ending learning curve.
Eric Eden (05:08):
And so you've built up this group of highly
qualified people.
You're pretty tight about whoyou let in to over 300 people,
and it's not about quantity,it's about quality.
Right, talk a little bit aboutthat and how you sort of qualify
(05:29):
people to let them be in thegroup.
Drew Neisser (05:31):
Yeah, and so you're right.
It's such an important thingand so, in part of ingrained
into CMO huddles, I don't thinkabout it that much.
But we have a North star whichis is it good for the huddler?
And that's like.
That allows us to make everydecision and push decisions down
, because if it's good for thehuddler, anybody on the team can
do it, If it's not, or you havea question about it, and that
(05:55):
makes it really easy when we'requalifying people.
Does this person bringsomething to the table?
Because we can't just havefolks who are like their first
time CMOs and they don't knowwhat they're doing and they're
just so needy.
We have to have folks that alsohave answers, who've done this
many times.
That doesn't mean everyone inthe community has to be that way
(06:15):
, but you need to be able tobring some depth of expertise in
some area.
So when we set up a one-on-one,there's a give and a get.
Eric Eden (06:25):
And I think the focus on B2B because B2B and B2C are
different is again.
Drew Neisser (06:31):
I was part of the club for 12 years and in the
last four I was running the B2Bcurriculum and, god bless Pete,
(06:55):
he put on incredible events.
But when I was in charge of theB2B portion, I would fight to
get three sessions and they werenever mainstay sessions.
And the challenge is, theconversations when you bring a
group of B2B CMOs together arevery different than the
conversations that B2C have.
(07:16):
It's just they are this and asmuch as we're all selling to
people and you'll hear that blahblah, blah blah about it's not
B2B or B2C, it's B2H or H2H.
The truth is it's fundamentallydifferent.
They're different inside theorganization and it's different
outside the organization and themotions are different and there
(07:36):
are things that they can learnfrom each other.
But I so love the fact that weare only B to B and so does our
community.
Eric Eden (07:46):
Yeah, because it's a lot more relevant.
You can't really get the samelearnings if people don't look
like what you're trying to do.
Drew Neisser (07:58):
If they look, fundamentally different, right,
yeah, and the interesting ones,where it gets a little dicey is
the B2B2C, because they and it'sfunny, I've sort of come to
this notion that I really wantto talk to a lot more B2B2C
because they do, living in bothworlds, they do more interesting
marketing than the folks thatare just B2B.
Their conversations aredifferent, their challenges,
their stress levels aredifferent and in terms of what
(08:21):
is causing them stress, yeah,and so this was really easy to
do, right.
Oh my gosh.
So you know, let's justconsider the life of a.
So in the last four and a halfor or almost five years now, has
seen a CMO tenure gotten longer?
No, so does that mean that weare dealing with a group of
(08:42):
folks that started join and thensuddenly, 18 months in, they're
out of work and we suddenlyneed to support them in
transition, which we do.
So you have that issue.
You have the issue that CMOsdon't seem to be completely in
control of their time, becauseyou have CEOs and board members
(09:02):
who feel like they could justjump in.
So getting this community toengage, keeping them as members,
attracting new ones, andgetting them to have the courage
to say I need this to do my jobbetter, all of those things are
hard, and so I so appreciateyou interviewing me here, and
hopefully other CMOs will do it,because when they have these
(09:25):
conversations and it's amazingthing, when you come to a huddle
, inevitably someone will sharea challenge and then another
person will say, oh my God, Ihave that same challenge.
Thank you, because it's likeI'm not alone, but it's hard.
Running a community is not easyand you always have the
(09:49):
challenge of and our retentionrate is really good, assuming
they keep their jobs.
But it's hard, and it's hardand there's lots of competition
coming at it from differentangles and you have to be nimble
and continue to evolve theproducts.
And this gets us to thepenguins.
Eric Eden (10:08):
I think you've done some things to make B2B
marketing not boring withpenguins.
Drew Neisser (10:14):
Why don't?
Eric Eden (10:14):
you share a little bit about what you're doing with
that.
Drew Neisser (10:17):
Yeah.
So a couple of years ago I wasdown in the Galapagos after we
had spent time in the sea andactually swimming around with
penguins.
The naturalist at that eveningsaid, hey, what's a group of
penguins called?
And the answer was a huddle andit was like the light bulbs
went off.
I literally texted our artdirector and said I want a
(10:39):
penguin on top of our logo andby the time we got back for the
Galapagos we did have thepenguins embedded.
I changed my title to Penguinin Chief.
I started wearing this wheneverwe record our Tuesday tips, this
little penguin hat, and it'sremarkable the parallels between
(10:59):
penguins.
But the whole point of it is wecan have some fun.
We're a B2B brand but we don'thave to take ourselves serious.
We take the work very seriouslyand these little guys, these
little stress balls, are just areminder that whenever you have
a challenge, know that yeah, youcan squeeze this, but you can
squeeze our community for relief.
You can get the value you need,because it's a hard, hard job
(11:25):
and we got to have a little funalong the way.
Eric Eden (11:35):
I think that one of the things that you and others
in the group have talked aboutis is that, broadly within their
own companies, chief marketingofficers, like the marketing
that they and their teams do,can't be boring, because people
don't want just buzzword bingo,they want something that's
interesting, and you can makejust about anything interesting,
right?
Drew Neisser (11:51):
You can.
I mean, I go back to, I mean,years ago worked on packaged
goods and one of the products inour portfolio besides Listerine
was a hemorrhoid remedy calledAnusol, and we actually managed
to make that interesting by weactually hired some really
interesting talent and you coulddo it, it's possible.
(12:14):
So if you can make hemorrhoidremedies interesting, surely you
can find something in B2B tokeep it from being boring.
And it has a ripple effecteverywhere.
Employees are happier,Customers go oh, I like what
you're doing there, so yeah, butman, I got to tell you right
now B2B is more boring than less.
(12:36):
I mean, if I see anotherwebsite with AI-driven, AI-built
, AI-inspired people, it's notgoing to work.
AI washing isn't going to workany better than greenwashing did
.
Eric Eden (12:53):
People got to get a little bit more creative and B2B
broadly.
I think that's a good takeawayfor a lot of people.
One of the things that you'vedone to make the group
successful is you do have peoplepay to be a part of the group,
and I think this is interestingbecause there's a lot of
(13:15):
communities or groups onlinethat are free and most of them
don't work.
So why don't you just talk alittle bit about that?
Because I think if you investnothing, you get nothing is the
way I look at a lot of marketing.
I'm just curious what yourexperience has been in building
the community and having peopleput some money behind their time
.
Drew Neisser (13:35):
Look, there's no doubt that if someone is paying
for it they're going to payattention, but it also just
allows us to keep the quality ofeverything higher and the
quality of the service.
And so you know, we sort oflook at this in in.
In CMO huddles is there sort ofthree key components peers, pr
and and penguins, and then the.
(13:57):
You know, the peers part is isreally important and so if we
notice, for example, you haven'tbeen able to make a huddle in a
couple of months, we'll findwe'll set you up with a
one-on-one, because we know wecan get value there and we know
we have enough information onthat because you can't always
make it to a huddle.
We wouldn't be able to affordto do that to staff it.
(14:18):
That's part one.
Part two of this is that one ofthe things that CMOs
classically do is neglect theirpersonal brands.
We refuse to let CMOs do that.
We get them on our livestreaming show, we get them on
the podcast, we get them in theTuesday tips and so, again, they
(14:40):
wouldn't do this on their ownand we sort of force it.
But we couldn't do it if itwasn't a paid community.
The other part of it is justthat it acts as a qualifier and
it just keeps folks thatshouldn't be there from joining.
Eric Eden (14:58):
Yeah, I mean you get what you pay for, so if you
don't pay anything, you're notreally going to get much from it
.
I think it comes back to that.
But it's not prohibitivelyexpensive and I think that the
reason you've been successful inbuilding the group and having
people stay in for a long timeis because they pay a little bit
and they get a lot of value.
So it's a great qualifierversus Reddit groups, which are
(15:21):
free but are also Right, andjust consider this.
Drew Neisser (15:25):
I mean one of the things that the remarkable
parts and I love this.
So, during CMO Huddle Studio,which is a live streaming show
that we do, then that becomes apodcast.
We have three guests and Iactually ask the guests in the
middle of the show if they haveanything nice to say about CMO
Huddles.
And what's interesting is weget a lot of wonderful feedback
and that makes me feel good.
(15:46):
But one of the CMOs almostevery single time says I was
reading a recap or a newsletter.
And they get a recap everysingle week that I edit.
Our open rate on those is over80%.
They say I put this in front ofour CEO because there was
information there that wasreally timely, or I had our team
look at this because you weretalking about that.
(16:07):
That's having a meaningfulimpact on the business.
The fact that an email getsopened is crazy and, again, a
lot of time goes into editingthose things to make sure and
this is not something you canrun through Chad TPT and say,
hey, it's time of a very senior,experienced individual looking
(16:32):
at this stuff and helping turnit into information that CMOs
will find valuable.
So, again, couldn't do that ifit was free.
Eric Eden (16:40):
And you also expanded the group.
Now that we've all survivedCOVID, you've expanded the group
into doing things like dinnersand in-person events like the
Super Huddle.
Talk a little bit about thatgrowth.
Drew Neisser (16:56):
This was, in truth, probably something I
should have done three years agoor two years ago, but I knew
how much work it was going to be.
We had our first Super Huddlelast November.
You were there.
It was really an incrediblething.
We had over 100 folks crammedinto a ballroom.
Incredible thing.
We had over a hundred folkscrammed into a ballroom and it
(17:17):
was rapid fire content and folkswere really, really engaged.
And it was amazing to havefolks that had huddlers, as we
call them, who had been onlytogether virtually to physically
meet and do that.
That was great.
And I knew this was importantbecause, look, in CMO Club Pete,
I'm the only other person whowent to all 24 of their summits
(17:40):
over a 12-year period.
I went to every single one ofthem and I know the value of
this.
I was just a little bit worriedabout stressing our
organization and so I gottricked into it because I
thought I was going to do alunch out there in November, and
then I thought I was going todo a lunch out there in November
, and then I thought I was goingto have free space and the next
thing, you know, we had fourmonths to plan an event for over
a hundred people.
So it was a minor miracle, butit was an extraordinary thing
(18:03):
and we've already decided we'lldo it again next year.
And then in between we domainly lunch huddles, because
it's really hard to get peopleto come in for a dinner these
days, but we do those inmultiple markets and we'll
probably do 10 to 15 of those inthe next year because, again,
there's nothing likeface-to-face.
Eric Eden (18:22):
What else would you say has been part of the reason
that you've been able to buildthis elite and engaged community
?
Is there any other part of theformula here that has led to the
great collaborations betweenthe people in the group?
Drew Neisser (18:42):
I think the thing that we've continued to try is
find different ways for CMOs toconnect with each other.
That, at the core, is what thisis about.
So we do have a Slack channeland certain members of our
community are highly engaged andfind that hugely valuable.
Our CMO Huddle Studio Show,ironically, where you have three
(19:04):
CMOs.
That often is a way that theybecome bonded the Lunch Huddle.
You have to have different waysfor CMOs to connect and of
course you have to havedifferent ways for CMOs to
connect and, of course, theone-on-ones that we arrange and
that takes two right.
We say, hey, you two shouldtalk.
The CMOs have to make the timeto do it and there's just a lot
(19:26):
of myriad of details behind thescenes.
There are probably a couplehundred EAs that we built
relationships with that we relyon to make sure that the folks
can they make this huddle If not, and work with them to manage
it.
It's a lot of detail andfollow-up with folks to just
(19:50):
make sure that the content'sright.
Oh, and I know one other thingIn addition to the peer huddles,
we bring in experts,bestselling authors as well as
experts on things, and we try tomake this really timely.
So no surprise.
In 2024, we probably had sixbonus huddles related to
generative AI as CMOs weregrappling with how to do it Next
(20:12):
year.
I've already got two scheduledon this CRO thing.
Are they friend or enemy?
Are we going to be reporting tothem and, if so, or could a CMO
become one?
And so it's not quitenewsjacking, but we're trying to
stay a little bit ahead ofwhere the CMO are and make sure
that we're getting thatinformation and bringing in
(20:32):
experts to them, because theydon't have time to do it.
Eric Eden (20:36):
That's amazing.
So, as a result of all thesedifferent ways to collaborate
over the last couple of years,have you seen the chief
marketing officers that are inthe group supporting each other
and, as a result, being able todo some pretty amazing,
(20:57):
remarkable things at theircompanies because of the support
they got from each other?
Drew Neisser (21:01):
Absolutely.
I think the biggest thing isthe confidence that you have.
You've not only got your teaminvolved, but you vetted it with
whatever it is that big thing.
You either got inspired byanother CMO or you vetted it
through a conversation.
I was thinking about this whatdo you think?
And it gives you the confidenceto sort of say no, that request
(21:23):
, that was wrong.
I can push back on the PE firmor the VC firm because they're
just not coming from a placethat makes sense.
But if you don't have sort ofthis resource of other CMOs are
going through the same challenge, it's hard to be confident.
And if you don't have theconfidence, you're not going to
be able to sell it.
Eric Eden (21:44):
I think confidence and belief go hand in hand, and
giving people the belief that,oh, other people are doing this
successfully, I can do itsuccessfully too is pretty
powerful.
What made you decide back in2020 to make this the focus,
(22:05):
instead of doing the otherthings you were doing running a
very successful agency thethings you were doing running a
very successful agency.
What made you passionate aboutcreating this sort of elite and
engaged community?
Drew Neisser (22:18):
Well, I hedged bets here and here's the key
thing when we started CMOHuddles, renegade was the
business and had been a businessof mine.
And I mean, eric, you were amulti-time client and I loved
running an agency.
But I'd been a renegade for along time and when we started
Huddles, I wasn't sure it couldbe a business, a standalone
(22:39):
business.
So I hedged a little bit but in2023, by three years into it,
it was clear it was a business.
It was clear that this was theright time for me to make that
pivot and I found myself gettinga lot more joy out of this
business, where I get to talkand work with a lot of CMOs and
(23:04):
help me, than I did as runningan agency.
And I think that's just sort ofa very individual journey that
I've had and I just feel sofortunate.
All that legwork, all thoseinterviews I mean it's over 600.
I didn't know how that wouldpay off and I think this is a
career lesson.
Eric Eden (23:21):
Sometimes you do things like you're doing with
the podcast you don't know whereit'll go, but it certainly
ended in a wonderful place place, and probably the timeline you
just mentioned suggests that youhave to put some significant
time into these things, like youtested it for quite a while
(23:41):
before you came to thatconclusion.
Right, it wasn't like a week ora month or even a year.
It was being consistent aboutit and Ford investing in it, and
then you're like, oh, there'ssomething here.
After a couple of years it'sreally built into something
interesting.
But I think a lot of peoplethink that success comes
overnight and I think withbuilding communities that's
(24:03):
definitely not true.
Drew Neisser (24:05):
Yeah, oh gosh.
No, it takes time and it'sbrick by brick and you have to
really be careful that there's ahigh value proposition at the
beginning so that your corepeople stay with you, because
you can'tMO huddles sort of oneCMO at a time and now we're
(24:38):
looking to scale it withinreason.
We don't have any investors, Idon't have an end line where I
have to hit a certain target, soreally it's about how many CMOs
can we help?
Eric Eden (24:54):
Really, it's about how many CMOs can we help.
If B2B marketing leaders areinterested in being part of the
group, they can go tocmohuddlescom and book a
one-on-one with you and get somemore one-on-one perspective
with me about this.
Drew Neisser (25:05):
Yeah, and we'll give them a guest pass which
will enable them to experiencegetting the recaps.
To come to one of our huddles,and we have at least five
huddles every month, includingthree period huddles, a bonus
huddle and a career huddle withthe bestselling authors.
So, yeah, you get a month totry it and we make sure that you
have a really positiveexperience.
Eric Eden (25:28):
Awesome.
Encourage everyone strongly todo that.
If you are a B2B marketingleader, get into the Penguin
Club.
You will not regret it and itwon't be boring either.
Drew Neisser (25:39):
Any final thoughts, Drew I would simply
say two things that every CMOthat I talked to who's in
transition.
They have two regrets.
One, they didn't build theirpeer network.
Two, they didn't build theirpersonal brands.
Joining CMO Huddle solves thosetwo things in a very easy and
fun and really enriching way.
So yeah, come on down.
Eric Eden (26:01):
Awesome.
Thanks so much for being withus today.
Thanks for being on the show.
We appreciate it.
Hey, derek, thank you.
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