December 2, 2024 • 38 mins
In today's episode Ashley Widener, the Director of Marketing at GoCo, talks through her journey from the conventional office life in Houston to a fully remote work setup. She's built and led a globally distributed marketing team and her plans to live and work from a van are intriguing. Ashley's story is not just about adapting to change but embracing it, all while maintaining a vibrant company culture.
Ashley shares how to navigate the unpredictable waters of remote work. Drawing from personal experiences, she reflects on how an unexpected leap into marketing led her to a career brimming with innovation and creativity at GoCo. Her anecdotes about solo travel adventures—beginning in the landscapes of Iceland—illustrate the profound personal growth that comes with taking risks. For anyone contemplating a location-independent career, Ashley emphasizes the importance of understanding what "remote" means and aligning it with personal goals.
In an age where remote work is the new norm, Ashley offers advice on maintaining productivity and developing new hobbies, even in the confines of a van. From orchestrating hybrid events to balancing team dynamics, she shares strategies to enhance communication and teamwork in a remote setting. With tips on building balanced teams and insights on the qualities that make remote workers successful, Ashley's experience offers a roadmap to thriving in today's evolving work environment. Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, adventure, and the pursuit of a flexible, fulfilling work life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Alex once again from the Remote Worker
Live podcast.
Welcome and thank you forjoining us in today's episode.
And today we're featuringAshley Widener.
She's the Director of Marketingfor the Growth Team at an
amazing remote business calledGoCo, and I started out by
asking her to just tell us alittle bit more about herself
(00:23):
and the team at GoCo.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
GoCo is an all-in-one HR solution, so we give
companies the tools to manageeverything from their employee
database to employee documents,payroll benefits administration,
performance reviews.
Really, any HR process can berun through our software.
I've been with GoCo for alittle over five years now.
I started as the firstmarketing manager hired into the
(00:44):
team back when the team was meand our director at the time and
one other marketing coordinatorso very small compared to the
10 people that we have now.
I've been there for about fiveyears and in my director role
for about half of that time, soI really helped build the
marketing program from theground up, played a big
(01:05):
generalist role, doing a bit ofeverything while we tried to
figure out what worked and, yeah, it's been great the whole time
.
Time really flies when you'redoing something like that,
building a program from theground up.
We're also a fully remotecompany.
We have been since 2020.
With the pandemic, we neverwent back to the office, so I
had the unique opportunity towatch that transition and help
(01:27):
navigate that from a leadershipperspective.
So I'm really passionate aboutremote work and talking about
these topics and how to keepemployees engaged and productive
and all of those questions thatpeople have when they make the
transition to remote work.
My team now is globallydistributed, so our whole
organization is we're across theworld, but specifically on the
(01:48):
marketing team we have peopleall over the United States and a
couple of employees in Brazilas well, so we're also
navigating the new globalelement, which has been really
fun.
In my role now I manage threemarketers and we specifically
focus on demand generation, paidmarketing programs, referral
programs, strategy around lead,life cycles and nurture.
(02:11):
We have another arm of our teamthat focuses on the brand and
creative and copy things likethat.
I think we have a reallywell-rounded team now, but my
area of focus at the moment isspecifically in the growth side.
I lived in Houston, texas, forabout eight years.
That's where the Gokoheadquarters is and, like I said
, we were an in-person companyat that point.
So that's back when I joinedthe team.
But I recently moved to a smalltown in Colorado Springs and
(02:33):
I'm actually working on buildingout a van to live in full time.
So, going all in on the remotelifestyle, I am about to be a
van lifer, so I'll be living andworking on the road, which I'm
very excited for.
So definitely made thattransition from desk worker
corporate cubicle type ofscenario to living and working
(02:55):
wherever I want to, which isreally exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And what made you choose to work at the company
that you're at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I was actually recruited to GoCo.
I wasn't looking for a role atthe time.
I was working at a differenttech company in Houston, but one
of my colleagues had made thejump over to GoCo to become
their director of marketing atthe time and build out the
marketing organization andprograms from scratch.
So she reached out to me to seeif I would make the jump with
her and help do that.
Like I said, I wasn't activelylooking for a new role but
(03:24):
looking back, I think I probablywould have been sooner rather
than later if the GoCoopportunity hadn't presented
itself.
I couldn't quite put my fingeron why at the time, but again
looking back, I realize now thatmy role was getting a bit stale
, even though I had only beenthere for a little over a year.
My focus in that role wasselling into the customer
database and doing expansions,but they were having a lot of
(03:47):
changes in the client successteam and with the product.
So I often felt like I was morea member of the support team
versus the marketing team, whichis not something that interests
me.
That's not my area of expertiseor anything I'm passionate
about.
So I was already starting toget a little burnt out and it
(04:10):
also wasn't the typical fastpaced environment you picture
for tech.
So they were a little bit moreestablished.
They were an older company.
They were stuck with theroutine that they had just doing
the same types of programs onrepeat.
There's definitely room to becreative and have new ideas, but
just not as much as I waslooking for, and I'm very much a
person who gets bored easily.
I need that fast pace to keepme going and if I get bored I
(04:30):
can't focus and then that justmakes work miserable.
So I'm constantly chasing aplace where I'm going to be
stimulated for my brain, havethings to do, have challenges
and not get bored.
So I was already reaching thatstage a little bit at my
previous role and again thatcolleague reached out to me and
so the timing kind of alignedvery well.
I started talking to GoCo.
(04:51):
The company was much smallerback then.
I think there were about 40employees at that time and we
have almost 200 now, so a lotdifferent back then.
But that meant I was able tomeet with what felt like every
employee at the company when Iwas interviewing and I
definitely met with the threeco-founders and got to hear
directly from them their visionfor the company and the product
(05:12):
in the future, which was reallycool.
I loved how excited everyone wasabout that, about the mission
of the company and howcollaborative they were and how
fun.
It was one of those officesthat you could just walk into
and feel the energy and therewas always something kind of
kooky going on, maybe a littlebit of the stereotypes that you
get with tech.
There was definitely a pingpong table in the office and
(05:33):
there were a life size stand upsof the founders that would
catch your eye, maybe scare youa little.
Lots of bright colors Our brandcolor is green, so there are
these huge green and white Legoblocks everywhere.
Colors Our brand color is green, so there were these huge green
and white Lego blockseverywhere.
So a lot of that fun stuffgoing on.
But you could just feel it withthe energy of the team too and
I loved that.
It was funny.
One of the walls of the officewas all glass windows and
(05:55):
sometimes it felt like we wereliterally in a zoo because the
other people in the morecorporate offices upstairs would
walk by and just stare likewhat are they up to today?
But it was because it was justreally collaborative and the
energy was good and it made itexciting.
Definitely not a place youcould get bored at.
So that drew me in.
And then, beyond that, like Isaid, they didn't have a
(06:17):
marketing program in place.
Instead, they had focused onbuilding out a really great
product and a client successteam, which piqued my interest,
especially coming from thesituation I was in where I felt
like I was having to do clientsupport more often than I wanted
to.
So that really appealed to meand the opportunity to build out
a marketing program fromscratch with the funding that
(06:38):
tech companies have and thesupport of a developing
organization.
Even though the marketing teamwas small, there were people who
had been at the company foryears and who were really
passionate about the brand andhad been doing their own
guerrilla type marketing, sothere was still some support.
There was really appealing tome.
I have worked at smallercompanies in the past and family
(07:00):
owned small B2C companies tobuild out marketing programs
from scratch and it's just notthe same thing.
It's a slower process there.
You have less resources to workwith, so I was really excited
about that opportunity as well.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Describe a personal, notable story or experience
that's influenced who you aretoday.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
This is actually a pretty easy question for me to
answer, because there's a veryspecific experience I had a
little over 10 years ago that Istill think about to this day
and use to motivate myself ifI'm up against a challenge.
I've always been a reallyindependent person.
I'm the type of person whereonce I set my mind to something,
I find a way to make it happen.
And after I graduated college,I really wanted to travel abroad
(07:41):
.
I've always loved traveling,always been really interested in
other cultures.
I studied cultural anthropologyas my undergrad degree and I
was ready to go out into theworld and see some of these
cultures that I had learnedabout and just get more life
experience for myself.
So I started researching placesand I was always drawn to very
obscure locations I say obscureonly as in they're not the
(08:05):
typical top 10 places you shouldvisit or top Europe
destinations for tourists orthings like that.
And of course, I couldn't findanyone to go with me.
We were fresh out of college ona budget.
People didn't really want tojoin me on what they thought
were these obscure adventures.
I started making a plan to gomyself.
I think now social media hasreally opened up people's
(08:27):
awareness about what's out thereand what different locations
look like and how to travel byyourself.
But back then it really wasn'tsuch a big thing, and so I set
my sights on Iceland and mostpeople either asked me where is
that?
Or why do you want to go?
There's nothing there but iceand snow.
And again now we probably allsee these beautiful pictures of
(08:50):
Iceland on our social mediafeeds and solo travelers go
there all the time.
But I hadn't really heard ofanyone else doing it or didn't
really know of a ton about thecountry.
So I started planning by myself,researching and preparing as
best I could, and I remember oneMarch day, early in the day I
think it was like 7am I landedin Iceland, picked up my rental
(09:12):
car and started driving, and myplan was to drive around the
Ring Road which circles thewhole country, and I was making
my way to a peninsula on thewest side, and the weather was
very hit and miss, and I hadread that it could be, since it
was March, it was the off season, winter's starting to end, but
the weather there can justchange on a dime.
I'd grown up in Colorado.
(09:32):
I thought I was used to that,used to driving in snow, but
it's just a different level inIceland.
So nothing really fullyprepared me.
And as I was driving, Irealized I hadn't seen another
living soul in a couple of hours.
And again, I am a veryindependent person, but I had
never been so alone and isolated, not in a city surrounded by
(09:52):
other people.
So that was a very newexperience and my brain started
popping up these questions thatjust started to build anxiety.
I was asking myself why did Icome here?
Why couldn't I have pickedsomething easier?
Why do I always have to takethings to the extreme?
I should just go home.
We could still turn around, wecould go home, we could go, stay
in the city, not drive around,and just kept building up in my
(10:14):
head.
And then a snowstorm moved inand it was a complete whiteout
and I just stopped driving andit was a moment where I could
have completely built off theanxiety that was already
spinning in my head.
But I just remember sodistinctly this new confidence
or power over my own thoughtscoming up, and I was what am I
talking about?
(10:34):
I've been dreaming abouttraveling like this for years
dreaming about Icelandspecifically for almost a year
and planning, researching.
I know what I got into.
I know what I'm capable of, Ican do this, and I just felt
this sense of peace wash over meand I continued on my way.
And I did have a few othermoments during that trip that
(10:56):
invoked that same sense ofanxiety and, I think, allowed me
to practice, calling on thisnew confidence and this new
power.
So I still just remember thatfeeling so distinctly in my head
and I'm still able to call onit for that day.
I think that's what's helped me, when I've been thrust into
challenges, personally andprofessionally, get through them
.
I let myself ask those anxiousquestions and then I call on
(11:19):
this power and say, no, I'mcapable of this, I know I can
figure it out, or I know that Ialready know what I need to do,
so I can.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Then what are your aspirations for your career
going forward?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The last question you asked me was easy.
This one is always one of thehardest questions.
I have always struggled to planout my career aspirations and
I've seen that things havechanged so much for me.
I actually, when I started mycareer, was in nonprofits and in
event planning and I thoughtthat I did not want to go into
marketing.
I thought that I did not likemarketing and I think I only
(11:59):
pictured madmen, ad agencies,things like that, and I've
always ended up in marketingroles which got me to where I am
today.
When I got out of nonprofits, Iwas at a marketing agency, but
it was a small agency for localbusinesses.
We were working on really momand pop shops, moving them out
of phone books into the internet, not doing this big digital
(12:22):
campaigns and strategies like Imanaged today.
So for many years I thought Idid not like marketing and so I
kept bouncing around and alwaysended up back in these marketing
roles.
I even went back to school toget an MBA in international
business, still trying to figureout exactly what I wanted my
career to look like, and I thinkI learned when I finally
stopped trying to plan so farout and to go with the flow but
(12:46):
check in with myself regularlyand make sure I'm on the right
path.
Things started falling intoplace, so I really do love where
I'm at now.
Goco is at a growth stage and Imentioned earlier that if I get
bored I move on or I becomemiserable, and I don't see that
happening.
Just in the five years thatI've been here, I feel like I've
(13:06):
been at five differentcompanies because things are
growing and changing so quickly.
So I really do love that andwant to help move this company
along and see it through as longas I can After that.
At the moment, what I seemyself doing is the same thing
for other companies.
I really love the strategy.
I'm great at connecting the dotsacross the strategy and the
(13:27):
organization.
I think some people canstruggle to see things when it
comes to understanding thetechnical and operational side
of marketing along with thecreative and campaign side.
But I think I fall right in themiddle and I've heard that from
my peers, so I would love tohelp other companies do the same
.
So I have considered consultingin the future, but we'll have
(13:50):
to see where it goes.
Like I said, I try not to plantoo closely because that's where
I've gotten myself into somestruggles, but I like to just
check in with myself reallyregularly and make sure that I'm
on the right path and I know,at the moment at least, I
definitely am.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
As you look back on your life and connect the dots
that led to where you are now.
What are those dots?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think I just alluded to a few of the dots
when I mentioned that I did notthink I liked marketing, but yet
here I am as a marketing leader.
I think, looking back, I alwaysreally have loved being
creative and pushing the limitsa bit.
I've loved learning aboutpeople and understanding people
and connecting to people.
As I mentioned, my undergraddegree was in cultural
(14:35):
anthropology and I just lovelearning how people work and
think how cultures work together, how cultures originate, what
happens when a group of peopleis together and does certain
things and I often joke that Iuse that degree in marketing
much more than anything Ilearned about marketing getting
my.
I think it's just a reallyever-evolving field.
(14:56):
So I think, looking back now,some of those dots are my
interest in different culturesand how people work.
I was always really passionateabout event planning and
creating experiences, whether itbe social or professional.
One of my first roles out ofcollege was planning a huge
fundraiser in LA and it wascelebrities, MCs, celebrity
(15:19):
attending and just massive eventand I just loved every minute
of it, creating this hugespectacle and creating an
experience for people.
I always love hosting andmaking things special, making
themed parties down to littledetails, whether it's on the
invitation, themed cocktails,themed food, the decorations.
I don't think I just fullyunderstood.
(15:41):
That is a lot of what goes intomarketing.
So when I do look back, I seehow the dots very clearly led me
here.
But it wasn't as clear of apath in the traditional sense
that I knew what I wanted to be.
I tailored my studies around it, things like that.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
What made you choose this particular profession?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I think marketing actually chose me as a
profession.
I don't think I actively madethe decision to be a marketer
and go all in and say this is mycareer until a few years ago,
maybe at the company that I wasat right before my current one.
So in the length of my careerin general that's not that much
time, but again, I always keptending up in these positions
(16:24):
that involved marketing.
And once I was able to connectall of those dots and really see
what marketing roles are outthere and what it could look
like in a more structured way,it finally clicked into place
and I chose that would be myprofession.
I think it comes from the factthat I had been working at
smaller companies.
I had worked at an agency andhad experience with marketing
(16:45):
there, but I hadn't really seenwhat it could look like in-house
at a big tech company or reallyunderstood all of the different
roles that exist withinmarketing.
So I am a generalist.
I consider myself a generalist.
That's been my career, Eventhough I'm focused in the growth
side of our team at the momentand leading to be generation
marketers.
I would say I really flex intothe brand space and the
(17:08):
operations space.
So I'm still a generalist atheart.
I can't actually get away fromit because I always dabble in a
little bit of everything.
But once I realized that spoketo me, I could commit to it and
choose it as my profession, andI've just been able to grow
since then.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And was there a particular aha moment for you
which confirmed that you're inthe right profession and in the
right role?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
My aha moment, I think, think, also came
relatively recently, consideringthe span of my career.
I think I questioned my rolefor a long time because, like I
said, I wasn't sure that I evenliked marketing or that this was
what I was supposed to be doing.
I was constantly looking at howI could translate the skills I
had learned into otherindustries or other roles,
(17:53):
trying to explore what otherpeople did, what was out there,
find something that appealed tome.
I don't quite know what I wastrying to get away from or what
I was trying to find.
I think I was just kind ofquestioning everything still
just a part of growing up anddeveloping my career.
So I think an aha moment thatcame recently was a couple of
(18:15):
years after I had been at GoCoand it was one of my
anniversaries.
So I want to say it wasprobably two years ago.
It may have been my thirdanniversary and they did a
summary of the things that I hadaccomplished and it was a very
nice shout out.
Just, our company is great withrecognition.
So I was very on the spotgetting a very nice shout out.
Just, our company is great withrecognition.
(18:35):
So I was very on the spotgetting a very nice shout out
and they showed everything I hadcontributed to and really
highlighted how unique some ofthe ways I approach those
programs are, and I think thatclicked it all together because
I could see the impact that Iwas having.
I think one difficulty withmarketing is that we can be a
little bit removed.
So we spend all of this timestrategizing and working very
(18:58):
hard and putting these thingsout to the world, but then we're
not the sales team talking tothe prospects that we're driving
in, we're not the clientsuccess team talking to our
customers.
We're in our bubble justthrowing stuff out there and
hoping that it works.
And, of course, we'remonitoring the numbers and we
can see different metrics thatshow whether it works or not,
but it's just not as tangible.
So I don't think the impact hadreally clicked for me.
(19:21):
I've also I mentioned that I getfeedback from peers about how I
sit in this unique space whereI can connect the dots across a
lot of different areas, and Ithink hearing that called out
really helped me have an ahamoment where I could see where I
fit in these organizations andwhere I fit in these roles and
what my strengths are.
I think it had always nagged atme.
(19:42):
That was something that I wasvery good at, but it's hard to
be the one to say that foryourself.
I needed that externalvalidation from others to make
it true in my brain.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
What advice can you offer to somebody who's looking
to build their own location?
Independent career.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
My first piece of advice is to try it out in
whatever capacity you can tomake sure that actually works
for you.
I had set my goal to be aremote worker way back before I
even started in tech.
So I was applying for remoteonly roles and back then this
was a few years before thepandemic.
Back then those roles were farand few between.
(20:20):
It was a lot more rare to havea company that was fully remote
or allowed you to work reallylocation independently.
So I was applying for thoseroles, got a couple interviews,
got my hopes up, did not getthem.
Ended up at the tech company inHouston, which was very much in
(20:41):
Houston.
They provided us theopportunity to work one day a
week from home and I loved that.
That was my first taste of amore official work from home
situation.
So that only fueled my fire tohave that as my goal.
So I previously talked abouteverything great that drew me to
GoCo.
One of the questions that I hadwhen I took on the role was,
because they were location based, there was no work from home
option, not even one day a week.
(21:01):
So I really questioned if itwas the right move and
originally when I joined GoCo Ihad in my head.
I'll use this as a launchingpad to hopefully get one of
those remote roles at anothertech company.
I can come here, build myresume.
Hopefully in a couple of yearsI'll move on and be in a remote
role.
(21:24):
And then the world did that forme.
You could say for me that wasthe one good thing that came out
of a terrible situation.
But the pandemic forced us togo home and what we realized was
that our culture was notsacrificed.
Sure, it changed, but we didn'tgive it up when people were not
in the office together andpeople were actually more
productive on some teams.
I was certainly more productivewhen I was working from home.
I definitely had an adjustmentperiod.
It was very weird to go frombeing in the office every single
(21:46):
day to being at home, having toping people on Slack, it being
very quiet.
I remember I put on the livefeeds of the show Big Brother,
which is just people going abouttheir day talking to mimic the
office environment the best Icould, because I was just going
a little stir crazy those firstfew weeks working from home.
But after the adjustment periodI have absolutely loved it ever
(22:10):
since and it works a lot betterfor me and my productivity and
my work patterns.
So I would say, any way thatyou can try it out, you should.
And then, for people who areactively looking for a remote
role, be careful with theterminology.
So I would really clarify whatremote means for the companies
that you're interviewing with,because remote does not
(22:32):
necessarily mean work fromanywhere.
Work from home does not meanwork from anywhere.
Work from home does not meanwork from anywhere.
Some companies will say thatthey're remote but then require
you to come into the office formeetings or certain work days
and it adds up so that it's notreally remote.
You don't quite have thatflexibility with your schedule.
Same thing with certain lawsand like payroll processing
rules and things like that.
(22:53):
Not all companies are going tobe equipped to process payroll
in every single state, so that'swhy they'll sometimes have
location requirements.
Like, you can work remote aslong as you live in these five
states, but if you're planningon moving around or moving to a
different state in the future,you need to be really careful
and make sure that is somethingthat they would support or are
equipped to do.
Otherwise, just be mindful thatmight not be an option they
(23:15):
would support or are equipped todo Otherwise.
Just be mindful that might notbe an option, and then it can
also depend on managers too.
So when you're talking tomanagers, make sure that you can
actually be locationindependent.
I think there's a lot of memesand jokes going around right now
about people who are I thinkthey're calling millennials like
sneaky vacationing I can'tremember the term for it, but
it's like when you're workingremote and you clearly have a
(23:37):
hotel or something in yourbackground and your managers,
you're not at home, and if theexpectation is work remote,
that's anywhere, and that's notalways the case.
So just be really honest withyour communication or just
thoughtful about that, becauseyou don't want to get yourself
in a sticky situation there.
I feel very lucky that myleadership supports working from
anywhere, including a van I didreally luck out there but it's
(24:00):
definitely something that you dowant to communicate with your
organization.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
What made you choose remote work as an option?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So I mentioned a few reasons in our discussion
previously, but for me thebiggest goal around being a
remote worker was having theflexibility to travel and
explore the world.
I just realized that even if Itake weekend trips going back
and forth, I'm never going tosee as much of our country of
the world that I want to see.
So I wanted to set myself up tobe able to explore as much as
(24:28):
possible.
And then, on the productivityside, I would actually never go
back to an office at this point.
I learned so much about myselfand how to be more productive
from being able to control myown work environment and set up
productivity spaces for myself.
I remember in the office andthis is the thing that people
say as a pro for office spacesbut in the office it's very easy
(24:50):
for someone to come up and justsay, hey, can I ask you a quick
question?
And those quick questions turninto rabbit holes that turn into
long discussions, or you justhear the noise from other places
.
I remember we had an openoffice environment in GoCo and
we had little sections for eachteam.
So I sat in a section with mymarketing team members, but we
were right across from the salesteam members.
(25:12):
So they're, of course, on thephone all day talking very
boisterous and loud on the phonewith prospects, and I would
often go find some hidey holecorner that was quiet to work
for myself.
So I was never even working atmy desk towards the end of the
office time anyway, and I lovebeing able to set better
boundaries for that, because itis really easy for someone to
(25:34):
just come up and say, hey, can Iask you a quick question and
then derail your whole day.
When you're working remotely.
You can still have thatexperience when it makes sense.
I find that a quick Slackhuddle or quick Zoom call people
joke that you know I hatehaving to have a 30-minute Zoom
call to answer a quick question.
It doesn't have to be 30minutes.
I jump on for a few minuteswith my coworkers all the time,
(25:57):
but I'm able to set thatboundary.
I can say either yes, I have 10minutes, I have a hard stop in
10 minutes, or I'm right in themiddle of something.
Can we do it a little bit laterand I can control my time a lot
more in my own space.
So I would personally never goback.
Now that I do have it and Iwanted it for the fun and the
glamour of the travel, but justfrom a productivity space and
(26:19):
mental health space, it's somuch better.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And how would you describe your current company's
culture?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I've been saying recently that our company's
culture is very human focused.
We're a very human company.
We care about the humanelements of our employees very
much.
The phrase we're a family herehas taken to mean very toxic
things, and so I would say thatwe are a very close team but we
(26:47):
care about your family here.
So we see the human side ofpeople and try to make that fit
into our culture.
And I think that being remoteallows us to do that even more,
because it gives you theflexibility to be a parent and
have to pick up your kids fromsummer school or drop everything
because your kid is sick, ornot drop everything because you
don't have to drive into anoffice or figure out child care
(27:09):
If your child is sick.
You can have them home andstill do your job with the
remote schedule.
So I think we're very human.
Our struggles around thattransition from being in the
office to remote.
We still do try to hang on tosome of the relics of that
(27:29):
in-person culture, but it's beenlong enough now and we've made
a really conscious effort tomigrate those things to this new
world that I think they'vesmoothed themselves out.
We also are really inclusive,so we have employees all over
the world.
We're very conscious of timezones and trying to make events
hybrid.
Hybrid events are very hard.
(27:50):
I actually am the chair of ourcompany's spirit committee,
which is party planning, culture, things like that, and we threw
some terrible hybrid events.
I'll be the first to admit thatit can be so awkward when you
have one group in person andthey're able to chat with each
other, and then you have thepoor people on Zoom who are just
awkwardly watching and can'thear anything because the
(28:11):
microphone picks up little bitsand pieces of what people are
saying.
So we definitely had to learnthe hard way how to make these
things more successful.
But we now have a few eventsthat we love running that
include the whole company andconnect across time zones,
countries and location.
We just wrapped one up that wasa scavenger hunt.
(28:32):
We split people out into teamsand gave them a huge list of
items to find, and it was reallycool to see people
collaborating and knocking offpoints and strategizing and
things like that.
I think we're also a veryevolving culture, which I love.
That's actually one of ourcompany values, but I think it
applies to how we approachthings like this, because we're
constantly trying to make thingswork better and make things
(28:56):
easier, for example, with themeetings and some people want to
jump on Zoom for 30 minutes,some people don't.
We try to make meetings waymore productive.
We experiment with a lot ofdifferent tech and platforms and
sending out meeting notes aheadof time.
I think it's just really coolto see us evolve and take
feedback and change things as wego.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
What qualities and characteristics do your hiring
managers look for when they'rerecruiting new hires?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I think this is a really interesting question as
it relates to the topic ofremote work, because I think it
is different than if you werehiring for an in-person role,
and I've had this conversationwith other leaders about what
that shift looks like.
I think it can be different fordifferent roles too.
So I think in more senior rolesyou may have an easier time
(29:45):
making the transition to remotework.
In more junior roles, I thinkthere's a lot that you can learn
from an office environment thatyou wouldn't pick up on
otherwise.
So there probably are somequalities and characteristics
that would make for an easiertransition for those types of
people.
So I mentioned earlier forpeople wanting to get into
remote work to test it out andmake sure you like it.
I would add to that make sureyou can do it and just be really
(30:07):
honest with yourself, becausenot everybody can.
One of the career buzzwords isself-motivated.
I think that especially applieshere, but I would redefine that
a little bit intoself-sufficiency.
I think you need to be someonewho can look for answers, solve
problems, figure things out onyour own, know where to go.
(30:30):
There's also a level ofeagerness and a bit of
confidence too, because you needto often track down answers and
it can be intimidating to haveto ping people on Slack that
you've never engaged with.
If you're new, or ping BP levelor something like that, you
have to have the confidence togo in there.
I would hear from new employeesa lot.
They're like I don't want tobug them, I don't want to bother
(30:51):
them, and bugging and notifyingon Slack is the key when you're
remote, because that's justyour opportunity to talk to
people.
You are not in a room with them, you are not constantly
interfacing with them, so youreally have to be
self-sufficient, figure thingsout and have a confidence to go
ask people.
I'd also say that eagerness isa big one.
I think eagerness is the bestword for it, and it's not quite
(31:16):
a personality thing.
It's related to the confidenceI was just talking about.
For example, if you have anidea of something you want to
try, or you're seeing results ofa report and seeing something
different, you really need tohave that eagerness and
confidence to bring up yourideas and raise those points.
Because, again, you're notinterfacing with people.
There's probably lessopportunities where you're being
(31:38):
outright asked those questions,so you need to be the one to
surface those things and I thinkthat's really critical to the
success of a remote worker.
I think communication is key toagain one of those buzzwords
that you could probably say forevery role, but it is especially
important working remotely.
We're a camera on company iswhat we call it.
So any zoom meetings and thingslike that, it's expected that
(32:01):
your cameras to be on, andthat's because it can be really
difficult to understand whatsomeone's saying and understand
the sentiment behind it withoutseeing their face.
So being camera on helps, butwe're still doing most of our
communication over Slack andthings can be misinterpreted if
you're not communicating well.
Tone can be really difficult tocome across in text when you're
(32:21):
remote.
So I think being a goodcommunicator is key and also
having a level of understandingof that concept and not jumping
to conclusions and things likethat is key.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
On the flip side, what's your philosophy for
building a great team?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
My philosophy for building a team is all about
balance, so I want to fill inthe gaps.
I want to identify everybody'sstrengths and weaknesses and
hire the opposites of that,including myself.
And saying this out loud, itseems like maybe that is very
common advice or very well known, but I do think it is a
struggle for a lot of people,especially when it comes into
(32:59):
including the managers and theteam leads, comes into including
the managers and the team leads.
So as a team leader myself, Iam the first to admit where I'm
weak and I hire for that.
So I want to bring in peoplewho can balance out those skills
and produce the mostwell-rounded team.
I think the other element tothat makes it challenging is not
a lot of managers know how tomanage when they are not an
(33:21):
expert in that area that theiremployee is.
For example, on my team I have aspecialist who focuses on our
paid programs and she has verytechnical knowledge of Google,
search and Bing and things likethat.
I don't have that much technicalknowledge.
In my past I've managed thoseprograms via an agency or very
lightly before we brought heronto the team to manage them
(33:44):
in-house.
So I'll be the first to admitthat is a weakness of mine that
she balances out with herstrengths and that as a manager,
it's not my responsibility toknow every single thing.
You have to also build yourteams with people that you trust
, because I trust that she ismanaging those programs properly
and discussing those with meand I, as a manager, can look at
(34:05):
the bigger picture to assessfor performance and know that my
role is not to coach on thespecifics of programs like that,
but to connect the strategy andconnect the dots across the
whole team and bring theprograms together and
orchestrate at a much biggerlevel.
So all about balance, all abouthiring for those strengths that
we need, and I guess you couldadd humility in there too,
(34:29):
because all for the managers tolet go of any notions that they
have about hiring good peoplethat may overshine them and take
a step back and let them stepinto those roles and fill those
strengths where we haveweaknesses.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is there a particular team or organization whose
culture you admire?
If so, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's hard for me to pinpoint specific organizations
just because I have not workedat other remote organizations
and I don't exactly know whatgoes on behind closed doors.
But from the public standpoint,a company that I look to a lot
is GitLab, and they are probablyone of the most well-known and
longest running remote-onlycompanies.
They also have a lot of reallygreat public documentation on
(35:14):
how they function as a remotecompany, so they have guides for
how to have productive remotemeetings and how to structure
your communication, and tipslike that that I think is really
valuable and I love that theyshare it.
Another one that's in our spacein the HR tech world is 360
Learning, and they are allremote and they also are
asynchronous.
They have a very interestingculture that they refer to as
(35:36):
convexity and they also havepublished documentation.
So on their site you can findblog posts and videos talking
about what this is and it is avery low to no meeting culture
and they have some reallyinteresting ways that they
collaborate among team membersacross all different time zones,
all different locations in theworld, and how they make that
work.
So I think that's really cool.
(35:57):
And then in general, not companyspecific I am keeping my eye on
companies who are taking it tothe next level.
So I think the remote worldwork shows that we can work from
anywhere at any time and beproductive.
I think the final thing that'sstill clinging to the old world
is working hours, which, ofcourse, is important for overlap
(36:18):
.
It's a very tricky topic whenyou're a client facing and have
meetings with other companiesand things like that.
But I am keeping my eye onthose companies that are
implementing things like a fourday work week, even if it's just
testing out summer Fridays forright now.
I think that's the next phaseis a lot more flexibility with
the expectations for what a workweek looks like, and I'm
(36:40):
excited to hopefully see thatchange sometime in the future.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What do you prefer to do when you're not working?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I love to do a lot of different things.
To be honest, I mentioned thatI don't like to be bored, so I
like to try a ton of new hobbiesand at the moment I am
currently building out a van tolive in, so I'm doing it from
scratch, completely by myself,and that's involved learning a
ton of new skills and hobbies.
I have not used any power toolexcept for a drill before this,
(37:09):
and now I have a whole closetfull of different saws and
drills and things like that, soit's been a really fun project.
My next piece to tackle is theelectrical work, so wish me luck
on that.
But that takes up most of mytime at the moment and once the
van is built I am going to betraveling.
I love to be outdoors andhiking, paddle boarding,
kayaking at the ocean, so reallylooking forward to some
(37:34):
adventures there.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
What are your best tips for organizing your day and
staying productive whileworking remotely?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Another way that I stay organized and, I think,
help my team stay organized isby making sure that we have
agendas and then follow-upsummaries for meetings.
I hate when we have a meetingand people come out and they're
unclear and you ask people acouple of days later and they
each have different answers orsomeone's done all this work
that doesn't need to do so.
I try to always have an agendadocument linked in any calendar
(38:05):
invite, share it with the teambefore ask people to add to it.
That can also help youdetermine if you even need to
have that meeting, whetherthere's stuff on the agenda or
the stuff that is there can justbe knocked out on Slack.
And then afterwards I, orwhoever is presenting, I always
ask them to send a summary andjust make sure everybody is
completely aligned on what needsto be done after, and I find
(38:26):
that really helps stay organizedbecause you can also make sure
you're aligned on deadlines andwhen things will get done, and I
hate having to drop everythingto go shift to a project.
That happens Sometimes, it'sjust unavoidable.
But for the most part I try tostay as organized as possible
with those prioritization typeof conversations to make.
Hey, it's Alex once again from the Remote Worker
Live podcast.
Welcome and thank you forjoining us in today's episode.
And today we're featuringAshley Widener.
She's the Director of Marketingfor the Growth Team at an
amazing remote business calledGoCo, and I started out by
asking her to just tell us alittle bit more about herself
(00:23):
and the team at GoCo.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
GoCo is an all-in-one HR solution, so we give
companies the tools to manageeverything from their employee
database to employee documents,payroll benefits administration,
performance reviews.
Really, any HR process can berun through our software.
I've been with GoCo for alittle over five years now.
I started as the firstmarketing manager hired into the
(00:44):
team back when the team was meand our director at the time and
one other marketing coordinatorso very small compared to the
10 people that we have now.
I've been there for about fiveyears and in my director role
for about half of that time, soI really helped build the
marketing program from theground up, played a big
(01:05):
generalist role, doing a bit ofeverything while we tried to
figure out what worked and, yeah, it's been great the whole time
.
Time really flies when you'redoing something like that,
building a program from theground up.
We're also a fully remotecompany.
We have been since 2020.
With the pandemic, we neverwent back to the office, so I
had the unique opportunity towatch that transition and help
(01:27):
navigate that from a leadershipperspective.
So I'm really passionate aboutremote work and talking about
these topics and how to keepemployees engaged and productive
and all of those questions thatpeople have when they make the
transition to remote work.
My team now is globallydistributed, so our whole
organization is we're across theworld, but specifically on the
(01:48):
marketing team we have peopleall over the United States and a
couple of employees in Brazilas well, so we're also
navigating the new globalelement, which has been really
fun.
In my role now I manage threemarketers and we specifically
focus on demand generation, paidmarketing programs, referral
programs, strategy around lead,life cycles and nurture.
(02:11):
We have another arm of our teamthat focuses on the brand and
creative and copy things likethat.
I think we have a reallywell-rounded team now, but my
area of focus at the moment isspecifically in the growth side.
I lived in Houston, texas, forabout eight years.
That's where the Gokoheadquarters is and, like I said
, we were an in-person companyat that point.
So that's back when I joinedthe team.
But I recently moved to a smalltown in Colorado Springs and
(02:33):
I'm actually working on buildingout a van to live in full time.
So, going all in on the remotelifestyle, I am about to be a
van lifer, so I'll be living andworking on the road, which I'm
very excited for.
So definitely made thattransition from desk worker
corporate cubicle type ofscenario to living and working
(02:55):
wherever I want to, which isreally exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And what made you choose to work at the company
that you're at the moment.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I was actually recruited to GoCo.
I wasn't looking for a role atthe time.
I was working at a differenttech company in Houston, but one
of my colleagues had made thejump over to GoCo to become
their director of marketing atthe time and build out the
marketing organization andprograms from scratch.
So she reached out to me to seeif I would make the jump with
her and help do that.
Like I said, I wasn't activelylooking for a new role but
(03:24):
looking back, I think I probablywould have been sooner rather
than later if the GoCoopportunity hadn't presented
itself.
I couldn't quite put my fingeron why at the time, but again
looking back, I realize now thatmy role was getting a bit stale
, even though I had only beenthere for a little over a year.
My focus in that role wasselling into the customer
database and doing expansions,but they were having a lot of
(03:47):
changes in the client successteam and with the product.
So I often felt like I was morea member of the support team
versus the marketing team, whichis not something that interests
me.
That's not my area of expertiseor anything I'm passionate
about.
So I was already starting toget a little burnt out and it
(04:10):
also wasn't the typical fastpaced environment you picture
for tech.
So they were a little bit moreestablished.
They were an older company.
They were stuck with theroutine that they had just doing
the same types of programs onrepeat.
There's definitely room to becreative and have new ideas, but
just not as much as I waslooking for, and I'm very much a
person who gets bored easily.
I need that fast pace to keepme going and if I get bored I
(04:30):
can't focus and then that justmakes work miserable.
So I'm constantly chasing aplace where I'm going to be
stimulated for my brain, havethings to do, have challenges
and not get bored.
So I was already reaching thatstage a little bit at my
previous role and again thatcolleague reached out to me and
so the timing kind of alignedvery well.
I started talking to GoCo.
(04:51):
The company was much smallerback then.
I think there were about 40employees at that time and we
have almost 200 now, so a lotdifferent back then.
But that meant I was able tomeet with what felt like every
employee at the company when Iwas interviewing and I
definitely met with the threeco-founders and got to hear
directly from them their visionfor the company and the product
(05:12):
in the future, which was reallycool.
I loved how excited everyone wasabout that, about the mission
of the company and howcollaborative they were and how
fun.
It was one of those officesthat you could just walk into
and feel the energy and therewas always something kind of
kooky going on, maybe a littlebit of the stereotypes that you
get with tech.
There was definitely a pingpong table in the office and
(05:33):
there were a life size stand upsof the founders that would
catch your eye, maybe scare youa little.
Lots of bright colors Our brandcolor is green, so there are
these huge green and white Legoblocks everywhere.
Colors Our brand color is green, so there were these huge green
and white Lego blockseverywhere.
So a lot of that fun stuffgoing on.
But you could just feel it withthe energy of the team too and
I loved that.
It was funny.
One of the walls of the officewas all glass windows and
(05:55):
sometimes it felt like we wereliterally in a zoo because the
other people in the morecorporate offices upstairs would
walk by and just stare likewhat are they up to today?
But it was because it was justreally collaborative and the
energy was good and it made itexciting.
Definitely not a place youcould get bored at.
So that drew me in.
And then, beyond that, like Isaid, they didn't have a
(06:17):
marketing program in place.
Instead, they had focused onbuilding out a really great
product and a client successteam, which piqued my interest,
especially coming from thesituation I was in where I felt
like I was having to do clientsupport more often than I wanted
to.
So that really appealed to meand the opportunity to build out
a marketing program fromscratch with the funding that
(06:38):
tech companies have and thesupport of a developing
organization.
Even though the marketing teamwas small, there were people who
had been at the company foryears and who were really
passionate about the brand andhad been doing their own
guerrilla type marketing, sothere was still some support.
There was really appealing tome.
I have worked at smallercompanies in the past and family
(07:00):
owned small B2C companies tobuild out marketing programs
from scratch and it's just notthe same thing.
It's a slower process there.
You have less resources to workwith, so I was really excited
about that opportunity as well.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Describe a personal, notable story or experience
that's influenced who you aretoday.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
This is actually a pretty easy question for me to
answer, because there's a veryspecific experience I had a
little over 10 years ago that Istill think about to this day
and use to motivate myself ifI'm up against a challenge.
I've always been a reallyindependent person.
I'm the type of person whereonce I set my mind to something,
I find a way to make it happen.
And after I graduated college,I really wanted to travel abroad
(07:41):
.
I've always loved traveling,always been really interested in
other cultures.
I studied cultural anthropologyas my undergrad degree and I
was ready to go out into theworld and see some of these
cultures that I had learnedabout and just get more life
experience for myself.
So I started researching placesand I was always drawn to very
obscure locations I say obscureonly as in they're not the
(08:05):
typical top 10 places you shouldvisit or top Europe
destinations for tourists orthings like that.
And of course, I couldn't findanyone to go with me.
We were fresh out of college ona budget.
People didn't really want tojoin me on what they thought
were these obscure adventures.
I started making a plan to gomyself.
I think now social media hasreally opened up people's
(08:27):
awareness about what's out thereand what different locations
look like and how to travel byyourself.
But back then it really wasn'tsuch a big thing, and so I set
my sights on Iceland and mostpeople either asked me where is
that?
Or why do you want to go?
There's nothing there but iceand snow.
And again now we probably allsee these beautiful pictures of
(08:50):
Iceland on our social mediafeeds and solo travelers go
there all the time.
But I hadn't really heard ofanyone else doing it or didn't
really know of a ton about thecountry.
So I started planning by myself,researching and preparing as
best I could, and I remember oneMarch day, early in the day I
think it was like 7am I landedin Iceland, picked up my rental
(09:12):
car and started driving, and myplan was to drive around the
Ring Road which circles thewhole country, and I was making
my way to a peninsula on thewest side, and the weather was
very hit and miss, and I hadread that it could be, since it
was March, it was the off season, winter's starting to end, but
the weather there can justchange on a dime.
I'd grown up in Colorado.
(09:32):
I thought I was used to that,used to driving in snow, but
it's just a different level inIceland.
So nothing really fullyprepared me.
And as I was driving, Irealized I hadn't seen another
living soul in a couple of hours.
And again, I am a veryindependent person, but I had
never been so alone and isolated, not in a city surrounded by
(09:52):
other people.
So that was a very newexperience and my brain started
popping up these questions thatjust started to build anxiety.
I was asking myself why did Icome here?
Why couldn't I have pickedsomething easier?
Why do I always have to takethings to the extreme?
I should just go home.
We could still turn around, wecould go home, we could go, stay
in the city, not drive around,and just kept building up in my
(10:14):
head.
And then a snowstorm moved inand it was a complete whiteout
and I just stopped driving andit was a moment where I could
have completely built off theanxiety that was already
spinning in my head.
But I just remember sodistinctly this new confidence
or power over my own thoughtscoming up, and I was what am I
talking about?
(10:34):
I've been dreaming abouttraveling like this for years
dreaming about Icelandspecifically for almost a year
and planning, researching.
I know what I got into.
I know what I'm capable of, Ican do this, and I just felt
this sense of peace wash over meand I continued on my way.
And I did have a few othermoments during that trip that
(10:56):
invoked that same sense ofanxiety and, I think, allowed me
to practice, calling on thisnew confidence and this new
power.
So I still just remember thatfeeling so distinctly in my head
and I'm still able to call onit for that day.
I think that's what's helped me, when I've been thrust into
challenges, personally andprofessionally, get through them
.
I let myself ask those anxiousquestions and then I call on
(11:19):
this power and say, no, I'mcapable of this, I know I can
figure it out, or I know that Ialready know what I need to do,
so I can.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Then what are your aspirations for your career
going forward?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The last question you asked me was easy.
This one is always one of thehardest questions.
I have always struggled to planout my career aspirations and
I've seen that things havechanged so much for me.
I actually, when I started mycareer, was in nonprofits and in
event planning and I thoughtthat I did not want to go into
marketing.
I thought that I did not likemarketing and I think I only
(11:59):
pictured madmen, ad agencies,things like that, and I've
always ended up in marketingroles which got me to where I am
today.
When I got out of nonprofits, Iwas at a marketing agency, but
it was a small agency for localbusinesses.
We were working on really momand pop shops, moving them out
of phone books into the internet, not doing this big digital
(12:22):
campaigns and strategies like Imanaged today.
So for many years I thought Idid not like marketing and so I
kept bouncing around and alwaysended up back in these marketing
roles.
I even went back to school toget an MBA in international
business, still trying to figureout exactly what I wanted my
career to look like, and I thinkI learned when I finally
stopped trying to plan so farout and to go with the flow but
(12:46):
check in with myself regularlyand make sure I'm on the right
path.
Things started falling intoplace, so I really do love where
I'm at now.
Goco is at a growth stage and Imentioned earlier that if I get
bored I move on or I becomemiserable, and I don't see that
happening.
Just in the five years thatI've been here, I feel like I've
(13:06):
been at five differentcompanies because things are
growing and changing so quickly.
So I really do love that andwant to help move this company
along and see it through as longas I can After that.
At the moment, what I seemyself doing is the same thing
for other companies.
I really love the strategy.
I'm great at connecting the dotsacross the strategy and the
(13:27):
organization.
I think some people canstruggle to see things when it
comes to understanding thetechnical and operational side
of marketing along with thecreative and campaign side.
But I think I fall right in themiddle and I've heard that from
my peers, so I would love tohelp other companies do the same
.
So I have considered consultingin the future, but we'll have
(13:50):
to see where it goes.
Like I said, I try not to plantoo closely because that's where
I've gotten myself into somestruggles, but I like to just
check in with myself reallyregularly and make sure that I'm
on the right path and I know,at the moment at least, I
definitely am.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
As you look back on your life and connect the dots
that led to where you are now.
What are those dots?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I think I just alluded to a few of the dots
when I mentioned that I did notthink I liked marketing, but yet
here I am as a marketing leader.
I think, looking back, I alwaysreally have loved being
creative and pushing the limitsa bit.
I've loved learning aboutpeople and understanding people
and connecting to people.
As I mentioned, my undergraddegree was in cultural
(14:35):
anthropology and I just lovelearning how people work and
think how cultures work together, how cultures originate, what
happens when a group of peopleis together and does certain
things and I often joke that Iuse that degree in marketing
much more than anything Ilearned about marketing getting
my.
I think it's just a reallyever-evolving field.
(14:56):
So I think, looking back now,some of those dots are my
interest in different culturesand how people work.
I was always really passionateabout event planning and
creating experiences, whether itbe social or professional.
One of my first roles out ofcollege was planning a huge
fundraiser in LA and it wascelebrities, MCs, celebrity
(15:19):
attending and just massive eventand I just loved every minute
of it, creating this hugespectacle and creating an
experience for people.
I always love hosting andmaking things special, making
themed parties down to littledetails, whether it's on the
invitation, themed cocktails,themed food, the decorations.
I don't think I just fullyunderstood.
(15:41):
That is a lot of what goes intomarketing.
So when I do look back, I seehow the dots very clearly led me
here.
But it wasn't as clear of apath in the traditional sense
that I knew what I wanted to be.
I tailored my studies around it, things like that.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
What made you choose this particular profession?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I think marketing actually chose me as a
profession.
I don't think I actively madethe decision to be a marketer
and go all in and say this is mycareer until a few years ago,
maybe at the company that I wasat right before my current one.
So in the length of my careerin general that's not that much
time, but again, I always keptending up in these positions
(16:24):
that involved marketing.
And once I was able to connectall of those dots and really see
what marketing roles are outthere and what it could look
like in a more structured way,it finally clicked into place
and I chose that would be myprofession.
I think it comes from the factthat I had been working at
smaller companies.
I had worked at an agency andhad experience with marketing
(16:45):
there, but I hadn't really seenwhat it could look like in-house
at a big tech company or reallyunderstood all of the different
roles that exist withinmarketing.
So I am a generalist.
I consider myself a generalist.
That's been my career, Eventhough I'm focused in the growth
side of our team at the momentand leading to be generation
marketers.
I would say I really flex intothe brand space and the
(17:08):
operations space.
So I'm still a generalist atheart.
I can't actually get away fromit because I always dabble in a
little bit of everything.
But once I realized that spoketo me, I could commit to it and
choose it as my profession, andI've just been able to grow
since then.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And was there a particular aha moment for you
which confirmed that you're inthe right profession and in the
right role?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
My aha moment, I think, think, also came
relatively recently, consideringthe span of my career.
I think I questioned my rolefor a long time because, like I
said, I wasn't sure that I evenliked marketing or that this was
what I was supposed to be doing.
I was constantly looking at howI could translate the skills I
had learned into otherindustries or other roles,
(17:53):
trying to explore what otherpeople did, what was out there,
find something that appealed tome.
I don't quite know what I wastrying to get away from or what
I was trying to find.
I think I was just kind ofquestioning everything still
just a part of growing up anddeveloping my career.
So I think an aha moment thatcame recently was a couple of
(18:15):
years after I had been at GoCoand it was one of my
anniversaries.
So I want to say it wasprobably two years ago.
It may have been my thirdanniversary and they did a
summary of the things that I hadaccomplished and it was a very
nice shout out.
Just, our company is great withrecognition.
So I was very on the spotgetting a very nice shout out.
Just, our company is great withrecognition.
(18:35):
So I was very on the spotgetting a very nice shout out
and they showed everything I hadcontributed to and really
highlighted how unique some ofthe ways I approach those
programs are, and I think thatclicked it all together because
I could see the impact that Iwas having.
I think one difficulty withmarketing is that we can be a
little bit removed.
So we spend all of this timestrategizing and working very
(18:58):
hard and putting these thingsout to the world, but then we're
not the sales team talking tothe prospects that we're driving
in, we're not the clientsuccess team talking to our
customers.
We're in our bubble justthrowing stuff out there and
hoping that it works.
And, of course, we'remonitoring the numbers and we
can see different metrics thatshow whether it works or not,
but it's just not as tangible.
So I don't think the impact hadreally clicked for me.
(19:21):
I've also I mentioned that I getfeedback from peers about how I
sit in this unique space whereI can connect the dots across a
lot of different areas, and Ithink hearing that called out
really helped me have an ahamoment where I could see where I
fit in these organizations andwhere I fit in these roles and
what my strengths are.
I think it had always nagged atme.
(19:42):
That was something that I wasvery good at, but it's hard to
be the one to say that foryourself.
I needed that externalvalidation from others to make
it true in my brain.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
What advice can you offer to somebody who's looking
to build their own location?
Independent career.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
My first piece of advice is to try it out in
whatever capacity you can tomake sure that actually works
for you.
I had set my goal to be aremote worker way back before I
even started in tech.
So I was applying for remoteonly roles and back then this
was a few years before thepandemic.
Back then those roles were farand few between.
(20:20):
It was a lot more rare to havea company that was fully remote
or allowed you to work reallylocation independently.
So I was applying for thoseroles, got a couple interviews,
got my hopes up, did not getthem.
Ended up at the tech company inHouston, which was very much in
(20:41):
Houston.
They provided us theopportunity to work one day a
week from home and I loved that.
That was my first taste of amore official work from home
situation.
So that only fueled my fire tohave that as my goal.
So I previously talked abouteverything great that drew me to
GoCo.
One of the questions that I hadwhen I took on the role was,
because they were location based, there was no work from home
option, not even one day a week.
(21:01):
So I really questioned if itwas the right move and
originally when I joined GoCo Ihad in my head.
I'll use this as a launchingpad to hopefully get one of
those remote roles at anothertech company.
I can come here, build myresume.
Hopefully in a couple of yearsI'll move on and be in a remote
role.
(21:24):
And then the world did that forme.
You could say for me that wasthe one good thing that came out
of a terrible situation.
But the pandemic forced us togo home and what we realized was
that our culture was notsacrificed.
Sure, it changed, but we didn'tgive it up when people were not
in the office together andpeople were actually more
productive on some teams.
I was certainly more productivewhen I was working from home.
I definitely had an adjustmentperiod.
It was very weird to go frombeing in the office every single
(21:46):
day to being at home, having toping people on Slack, it being
very quiet.
I remember I put on the livefeeds of the show Big Brother,
which is just people going abouttheir day talking to mimic the
office environment the best Icould, because I was just going
a little stir crazy those firstfew weeks working from home.
But after the adjustment periodI have absolutely loved it ever
(22:10):
since and it works a lot betterfor me and my productivity and
my work patterns.
So I would say, any way thatyou can try it out, you should.
And then, for people who areactively looking for a remote
role, be careful with theterminology.
So I would really clarify whatremote means for the companies
that you're interviewing with,because remote does not
(22:32):
necessarily mean work fromanywhere.
Work from home does not meanwork from anywhere.
Work from home does not meanwork from anywhere.
Some companies will say thatthey're remote but then require
you to come into the office formeetings or certain work days
and it adds up so that it's notreally remote.
You don't quite have thatflexibility with your schedule.
Same thing with certain lawsand like payroll processing
rules and things like that.
(22:53):
Not all companies are going tobe equipped to process payroll
in every single state, so that'swhy they'll sometimes have
location requirements.
Like, you can work remote aslong as you live in these five
states, but if you're planningon moving around or moving to a
different state in the future,you need to be really careful
and make sure that is somethingthat they would support or are
equipped to do.
Otherwise, just be mindful thatmight not be an option they
(23:15):
would support or are equipped todo Otherwise.
Just be mindful that might notbe an option, and then it can
also depend on managers too.
So when you're talking tomanagers, make sure that you can
actually be locationindependent.
I think there's a lot of memesand jokes going around right now
about people who are I thinkthey're calling millennials like
sneaky vacationing I can'tremember the term for it, but
it's like when you're workingremote and you clearly have a
(23:37):
hotel or something in yourbackground and your managers,
you're not at home, and if theexpectation is work remote,
that's anywhere, and that's notalways the case.
So just be really honest withyour communication or just
thoughtful about that, becauseyou don't want to get yourself
in a sticky situation there.
I feel very lucky that myleadership supports working from
anywhere, including a van I didreally luck out there but it's
(24:00):
definitely something that you dowant to communicate with your
organization.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
What made you choose remote work as an option?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
So I mentioned a few reasons in our discussion
previously, but for me thebiggest goal around being a
remote worker was having theflexibility to travel and
explore the world.
I just realized that even if Itake weekend trips going back
and forth, I'm never going tosee as much of our country of
the world that I want to see.
So I wanted to set myself up tobe able to explore as much as
(24:28):
possible.
And then, on the productivityside, I would actually never go
back to an office at this point.
I learned so much about myselfand how to be more productive
from being able to control myown work environment and set up
productivity spaces for myself.
I remember in the office andthis is the thing that people
say as a pro for office spacesbut in the office it's very easy
(24:50):
for someone to come up and justsay, hey, can I ask you a quick
question?
And those quick questions turninto rabbit holes that turn into
long discussions, or you justhear the noise from other places
.
I remember we had an openoffice environment in GoCo and
we had little sections for eachteam.
So I sat in a section with mymarketing team members, but we
were right across from the salesteam members.
(25:12):
So they're, of course, on thephone all day talking very
boisterous and loud on the phonewith prospects, and I would
often go find some hidey holecorner that was quiet to work
for myself.
So I was never even working atmy desk towards the end of the
office time anyway, and I lovebeing able to set better
boundaries for that, because itis really easy for someone to
(25:34):
just come up and say, hey, can Iask you a quick question and
then derail your whole day.
When you're working remotely.
You can still have thatexperience when it makes sense.
I find that a quick Slackhuddle or quick Zoom call people
joke that you know I hatehaving to have a 30-minute Zoom
call to answer a quick question.
It doesn't have to be 30minutes.
I jump on for a few minuteswith my coworkers all the time,
(25:57):
but I'm able to set thatboundary.
I can say either yes, I have 10minutes, I have a hard stop in
10 minutes, or I'm right in themiddle of something.
Can we do it a little bit laterand I can control my time a lot
more in my own space.
So I would personally never goback.
Now that I do have it and Iwanted it for the fun and the
glamour of the travel, but justfrom a productivity space and
(26:19):
mental health space, it's somuch better.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And how would you describe your current company's
culture?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I've been saying recently that our company's
culture is very human focused.
We're a very human company.
We care about the humanelements of our employees very
much.
The phrase we're a family herehas taken to mean very toxic
things, and so I would say thatwe are a very close team but we
(26:47):
care about your family here.
So we see the human side ofpeople and try to make that fit
into our culture.
And I think that being remoteallows us to do that even more,
because it gives you theflexibility to be a parent and
have to pick up your kids fromsummer school or drop everything
because your kid is sick, ornot drop everything because you
don't have to drive into anoffice or figure out child care
(27:09):
If your child is sick.
You can have them home andstill do your job with the
remote schedule.
So I think we're very human.
Our struggles around thattransition from being in the
office to remote.
We still do try to hang on tosome of the relics of that
(27:29):
in-person culture, but it's beenlong enough now and we've made
a really conscious effort tomigrate those things to this new
world that I think they'vesmoothed themselves out.
We also are really inclusive,so we have employees all over
the world.
We're very conscious of timezones and trying to make events
hybrid.
Hybrid events are very hard.
(27:50):
I actually am the chair of ourcompany's spirit committee,
which is party planning, culture, things like that, and we threw
some terrible hybrid events.
I'll be the first to admit thatit can be so awkward when you
have one group in person andthey're able to chat with each
other, and then you have thepoor people on Zoom who are just
awkwardly watching and can'thear anything because the
(28:11):
microphone picks up little bitsand pieces of what people are
saying.
So we definitely had to learnthe hard way how to make these
things more successful.
But we now have a few eventsthat we love running that
include the whole company andconnect across time zones,
countries and location.
We just wrapped one up that wasa scavenger hunt.
(28:32):
We split people out into teamsand gave them a huge list of
items to find, and it was reallycool to see people
collaborating and knocking offpoints and strategizing and
things like that.
I think we're also a veryevolving culture, which I love.
That's actually one of ourcompany values, but I think it
applies to how we approachthings like this, because we're
constantly trying to make thingswork better and make things
(28:56):
easier, for example, with themeetings and some people want to
jump on Zoom for 30 minutes,some people don't.
We try to make meetings waymore productive.
We experiment with a lot ofdifferent tech and platforms and
sending out meeting notes aheadof time.
I think it's just really coolto see us evolve and take
feedback and change things as wego.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
What qualities and characteristics do your hiring
managers look for when they'rerecruiting new hires?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I think this is a really interesting question as
it relates to the topic ofremote work, because I think it
is different than if you werehiring for an in-person role,
and I've had this conversationwith other leaders about what
that shift looks like.
I think it can be different fordifferent roles too.
So I think in more senior rolesyou may have an easier time
(29:45):
making the transition to remotework.
In more junior roles, I thinkthere's a lot that you can learn
from an office environment thatyou wouldn't pick up on
otherwise.
So there probably are somequalities and characteristics
that would make for an easiertransition for those types of
people.
So I mentioned earlier forpeople wanting to get into
remote work to test it out andmake sure you like it.
I would add to that make sureyou can do it and just be really
(30:07):
honest with yourself, becausenot everybody can.
One of the career buzzwords isself-motivated.
I think that especially applieshere, but I would redefine that
a little bit intoself-sufficiency.
I think you need to be someonewho can look for answers, solve
problems, figure things out onyour own, know where to go.
(30:30):
There's also a level ofeagerness and a bit of
confidence too, because you needto often track down answers and
it can be intimidating to haveto ping people on Slack that
you've never engaged with.
If you're new, or ping BP levelor something like that, you
have to have the confidence togo in there.
I would hear from new employeesa lot.
They're like I don't want tobug them, I don't want to bother
(30:51):
them, and bugging and notifyingon Slack is the key when you're
remote, because that's justyour opportunity to talk to
people.
You are not in a room with them, you are not constantly
interfacing with them, so youreally have to be
self-sufficient, figure thingsout and have a confidence to go
ask people.
I'd also say that eagerness isa big one.
I think eagerness is the bestword for it, and it's not quite
(31:16):
a personality thing.
It's related to the confidenceI was just talking about.
For example, if you have anidea of something you want to
try, or you're seeing results ofa report and seeing something
different, you really need tohave that eagerness and
confidence to bring up yourideas and raise those points.
Because, again, you're notinterfacing with people.
There's probably lessopportunities where you're being
(31:38):
outright asked those questions,so you need to be the one to
surface those things and I thinkthat's really critical to the
success of a remote worker.
I think communication is key toagain one of those buzzwords
that you could probably say forevery role, but it is especially
important working remotely.
We're a camera on company iswhat we call it.
So any zoom meetings and thingslike that, it's expected that
(32:01):
your cameras to be on, andthat's because it can be really
difficult to understand whatsomeone's saying and understand
the sentiment behind it withoutseeing their face.
So being camera on helps, butwe're still doing most of our
communication over Slack andthings can be misinterpreted if
you're not communicating well.
Tone can be really difficult tocome across in text when you're
(32:21):
remote.
So I think being a goodcommunicator is key and also
having a level of understandingof that concept and not jumping
to conclusions and things likethat is key.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
On the flip side, what's your philosophy for
building a great team?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
My philosophy for building a team is all about
balance, so I want to fill inthe gaps.
I want to identify everybody'sstrengths and weaknesses and
hire the opposites of that,including myself.
And saying this out loud, itseems like maybe that is very
common advice or very well known, but I do think it is a
struggle for a lot of people,especially when it comes into
(32:59):
including the managers and theteam leads, comes into including
the managers and the team leads.
So as a team leader myself, Iam the first to admit where I'm
weak and I hire for that.
So I want to bring in peoplewho can balance out those skills
and produce the mostwell-rounded team.
I think the other element tothat makes it challenging is not
a lot of managers know how tomanage when they are not an
(33:21):
expert in that area that theiremployee is.
For example, on my team I have aspecialist who focuses on our
paid programs and she has verytechnical knowledge of Google,
search and Bing and things likethat.
I don't have that much technicalknowledge.
In my past I've managed thoseprograms via an agency or very
lightly before we brought heronto the team to manage them
(33:44):
in-house.
So I'll be the first to admitthat is a weakness of mine that
she balances out with herstrengths and that as a manager,
it's not my responsibility toknow every single thing.
You have to also build yourteams with people that you trust
, because I trust that she ismanaging those programs properly
and discussing those with meand I, as a manager, can look at
(34:05):
the bigger picture to assessfor performance and know that my
role is not to coach on thespecifics of programs like that,
but to connect the strategy andconnect the dots across the
whole team and bring theprograms together and
orchestrate at a much biggerlevel.
So all about balance, all abouthiring for those strengths that
we need, and I guess you couldadd humility in there too,
(34:29):
because all for the managers tolet go of any notions that they
have about hiring good peoplethat may overshine them and take
a step back and let them stepinto those roles and fill those
strengths where we haveweaknesses.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is there a particular team or organization whose
culture you admire?
If so, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's hard for me to pinpoint specific organizations
just because I have not workedat other remote organizations
and I don't exactly know whatgoes on behind closed doors.
But from the public standpoint,a company that I look to a lot
is GitLab, and they are probablyone of the most well-known and
longest running remote-onlycompanies.
They also have a lot of reallygreat public documentation on
(35:14):
how they function as a remotecompany, so they have guides for
how to have productive remotemeetings and how to structure
your communication, and tipslike that that I think is really
valuable and I love that theyshare it.
Another one that's in our spacein the HR tech world is 360
Learning, and they are allremote and they also are
asynchronous.
They have a very interestingculture that they refer to as
(35:36):
convexity and they also havepublished documentation.
So on their site you can findblog posts and videos talking
about what this is and it is avery low to no meeting culture
and they have some reallyinteresting ways that they
collaborate among team membersacross all different time zones,
all different locations in theworld, and how they make that
work.
So I think that's really cool.
(35:57):
And then in general, not companyspecific I am keeping my eye on
companies who are taking it tothe next level.
So I think the remote worldwork shows that we can work from
anywhere at any time and beproductive.
I think the final thing that'sstill clinging to the old world
is working hours, which, ofcourse, is important for overlap
(36:18):
.
It's a very tricky topic whenyou're a client facing and have
meetings with other companiesand things like that.
But I am keeping my eye onthose companies that are
implementing things like a fourday work week, even if it's just
testing out summer Fridays forright now.
I think that's the next phaseis a lot more flexibility with
the expectations for what a workweek looks like, and I'm
(36:40):
excited to hopefully see thatchange sometime in the future.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What do you prefer to do when you're not working?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I love to do a lot of different things.
To be honest, I mentioned thatI don't like to be bored, so I
like to try a ton of new hobbiesand at the moment I am
currently building out a van tolive in, so I'm doing it from
scratch, completely by myself,and that's involved learning a
ton of new skills and hobbies.
I have not used any power toolexcept for a drill before this,
(37:09):
and now I have a whole closetfull of different saws and
drills and things like that, soit's been a really fun project.
My next piece to tackle is theelectrical work, so wish me luck
on that.
But that takes up most of mytime at the moment and once the
van is built I am going to betraveling.
I love to be outdoors andhiking, paddle boarding,
kayaking at the ocean, so reallylooking forward to some
(37:34):
adventures there.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
What are your best tips for organizing your day and
staying productive whileworking remotely?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Another way that I stay organized and, I think,
help my team stay organized isby making sure that we have
agendas and then follow-upsummaries for meetings.
I hate when we have a meetingand people come out and they're
unclear and you ask people acouple of days later and they
each have different answers orsomeone's done all this work
that doesn't need to do so.
I try to always have an agendadocument linked in any calendar
(38:05):
invite, share it with the teambefore ask people to add to it.
That can also help youdetermine if you even need to
have that meeting, whetherthere's stuff on the agenda or
the stuff that is there can justbe knocked out on Slack.
And then afterwards I, orwhoever is presenting, I always
ask them to send a summary andjust make sure everybody is
completely aligned on what needsto be done after, and I find
(38:26):
that really helps stay organizedbecause you can also make sure
you're aligned on deadlines andwhen things will get done, and I
hate having to drop everythingto go shift to a project.
That happens Sometimes, it'sjust unavoidable.
But for the most part I try tostay as organized as possible
with those prioritization typeof conversations to make.
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