December 7, 2025 • 45 mins
What if your work actually gave you energy back? That’s the thread we follow with Mary Alice Duff, a fractional COO who left a decade in social work, built a clothing brand the hard way, and now runs a profitable, remote-first practice from the south of France—without burning herself or her clients out. We talk about the real operations work founders rarely admit: pricing that quietly destroys margins, teams without clarity, and systems that leak time and money. Mary Alice opens her playbook for turning that mess into momentum.
Refer a Remote Work Expert As a Guest On The Show
Looking for Remote Work?
Click here remoteworklife.io to access a private beta list of remote jobs in sales, marketing, and strategy — plus get podcasts, real-world tips and business insights from founders, CEOs, and remote leaders. subscribe to my free newsletter
Connect on LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (00:00):
Hey everybody's Alex again at the
Remote Work Live Podcast.
Today I've got with me uh MaryAlice Duff.
She lives in the south ofFrance with her husband,
daughter, Dog Kat.
A move that they made quite onscene four years ago and they've
never looked back.
If you're not travelingthroughout Southern Europe for
(00:20):
talking to a good book, you'llfind in the kitchen cooking,
baking, or entertaining.
Work-wise as a portfoliocareerist.
He's a partner globally remotesmall businesses as a fractional
COO and transformation partner.
He runs a remote coachingprogram for new fractional
(00:42):
operators and writes about themessy, joyful reality of
self-employment and smallbusiness through a newsletter,
op, and other opinions.
These days he tries to approachboth work and life with a
spirit of joie de vive.
Curious, playful, and full ofpossibility.
Probably one of the bestintroductors I've ever heard on
(01:04):
this podcast.
If not the best.
Very welcome, Mary Alice.
Thank you for joining me today.
Mary Alice Duff (01:12):
Thanks for having me.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (01:14):
Pleasure, absolute pleasure.
So as I always do, can you justbegin by telling me?
I know I've given a little bitof introduction there, but give
me a bit about your backgroundand what led you to this point.
Mary Alice Duff (01:27):
Yeah, sure.
So I have a prettyunconventional background.
I actually started my career insocial work and community
organizing.
I worked in the nonprofitsector, I don't know, 10 years.
No, I actually started when Iwas 16 in the nonprofit sector.
And I went to school for socialwork, and I thought that would
be my career, you know, studyingsocial change and law and
(01:48):
social policy.
And I did that for a while andI really enjoyed it.
But along the way, I realizedthat wasn't the life I wanted.
I wanted to carve out somethingfor myself.
So I made a very sharp rightturn and started a clothing
company.
And I ran what was called avertically integrated clothing
company.
So we designed, cut, sewedeverything in-house in a studio
(02:11):
in Philadelphia, and we shippedit to customers around the
world.
Um, and that was awesome, butalso exhausting.
And uh, if anybody listeningworks in fashion, it is
absolutely brutal.
It's hard to make money,margins are tight.
Um, and then COVID happened andI started working remotely, and
I got a taste of workingremotely and fell in love with
(02:32):
remote work and realized assomeone who's quite introverted,
remote work suits me because Idon't have to do as much
peopleing.
So I don't get I don't getfried as quickly as in-person
communication.
Um, and so I closed my clothingbusiness and I pivoted to
helping other small businessowners build globally remote
businesses.
(02:52):
Um I do that by partnering withthem uh to increase their
revenue, focusing onprofitability, getting their
team in alignment, uh, andbasically running businesses
that are joyful, um, that don'tburn themselves out or their
teams out or through piles ofcash.
Uh so that's what I do now.
And then I coach other peoplewho want to enter fractional
work.
Uh, there's definitely anexplosion happening in the
(03:14):
fractional space, and so I helppeople who are transitioning
from full-time employment toworking for themselves.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (03:22):
Sounds good.
Sounds great to me.
Um, and I'm glad you're heretoday because there's a lot I
can learn, there's a lot forpeople out there who need to
learn and want to learn aboutthis way of working.
Um you've got different layersto your experience.
You've got, you know, you'veyou've walked the walked the
talk.
Is that is that you've walkedthe talk, you've you know,
(03:45):
you've had your business, you'veset up it was an e-commerce
business, I take it like was itShopify, something like that?
Mary Alice Duff (03:51):
Yep, yeah, something like that.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (03:53):
And now you're uh as well as that,
you're not just done done thesort of um you've had been in
the trenches on that side, butalso um in the operational side.
So it's there's a lot to learn.
But um what I'm intrigued toknow is uh I want to dig a bit
deeper into your business andtell me a bit more about the
business.
Mary Alice Duff (04:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So uh I have a couple ofdifferent revenue streams.
The primary one is I partnerwith these small businesses.
So they operate, they've beenremote since day one.
Like they've never had anoffice, they often have team
members in various countries,there's often multiple languages
being spoken.
Um, and we're working acrossborders, time zones, et cetera.
(04:32):
Um, my bottom line for who Iwork with is they have to have a
phenomenal product or service,but everything else is a bit of
a mess.
Um, so you know, people don'treally know, uh, they don't have
a clear job description, theydon't know what they're
responsible for, what they'rebeing held accountable for.
Delivery is kind ofinconsistent, you know, they
don't have standard operatingprocedures.
Maybe their pricing is off.
(04:53):
So um, you know, they might bedoing really well, but they're
not profitable.
Revenue looks good, but they'reactually bleeding money every
month.
Maybe they don't have marketingsystems.
Um, so bottom line is sub 5million, 3 million in revenue,
uh, as small as 500k in revenue.
Um, they have a globally remoteteam.
They they've never evenconsidered an office.
(05:14):
Uh, a lot of the companies Iwork with are what are called uh
experiential.
So they're offering anin-person product or service.
It's very human-driven.
Um, and I go in as theirtransformation partner, and my
only objective is to make theirbusiness more profitable uh
without burning through theirteam, right?
I'm like anti-burnout, I'mpeople-centered, um, and doing
(05:37):
it in a way that's super scrappyand sustainable.
So I'm never gonna suggest afix like spend 20 grand a month
on Facebook ads, or you need tohire this shiny marketing
consultant, because it's allabout uh organic, working
scrappily, uh workingsustainably, things that these
businesses can actually handlebecause they're bootstrapped,
they don't have investmentfinancing.
(05:58):
Um so that's one part of thebusiness.
I can take three clients at atime.
Uh, that would make me very,very busy.
Uh, my sweet spot is two.
And then in addition to that, Irun this coaching program.
So it's a six-week coachingprogram.
Uh, it's people who aretransitioning from full-time
work and they want to set up asolo fractional uh business on
their own.
(06:18):
So they want to do theconsulting work that I do, but
on their own.
But they've never beenself-employed before.
So, how do they define theiroffer, their positioning?
Where do they find clients?
How do they price?
What kind of tools do they needin order to do this?
How do they protect themselves?
All those things.
So, together over the course ofsix weeks, we go over that.
At the end of the six weeks,they're ready to launch a
(06:39):
fractional practice and startmaking money on their own,
working from wherever theychoose.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (06:46):
That kind of uh prompts other questions
that I probably didn't put onthe the list of questions.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
That's okay.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (06:52):
You know, I I I because I'm intrigued now
because that you've talkedyou've spoken about the the
theoretical things.
Have you got like a the firstthe the um the sort of first
side of your business?
Have you got like a practicalexample of you don't necessarily
have to name the client if youdon't want to, but have you got
a practical example of howyou've how you've done done
that?
Mary Alice Duff (07:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I have a client right now,they're in the retreat space, so
they offer um retreats toindividuals who want to escape
to France.
And uh one of the things I'mdoing for them is the it's the
first thing I do when workingwith a client.
I do a comprehensive audit oftheir business.
So I'm digging into all theirfinancials, I'm digging into all
their marketing brand and salesstuff, I'm digging into their
(07:33):
people.
Um so I'm meeting their people,I'm getting their job
descriptions, I'm interviewingthem, and then I'm looking at
all their systems.
So, how are things talking toeach other?
What kind of tech are theyusing?
Do they have standard processesor do they keep repeating
themselves?
Um, so for example, first thingI notice in this audit is their
pricing is too low.
So every retreat they'reactually selling is actually
(07:55):
making the business worse.
Um, and a lot of times, youknow, especially new business
owners, they don't come from abusiness background.
They have a passion for theservice that they're offering,
right?
So whether it's food tours orum, you know, some hospitality
experience, or uh, you know, myhusband does edtech, he does
(08:16):
STEM activities with kids.
They're coming at it from thebackground of they're providing
an experience that they'reexcited about, that they want to
get their clients excitedabout.
And they just see, oh, okay,I've priced it.
I, you know, I make I make moremoney than it costs.
That's good, right?
And it's like, you need to makeway more money than it costs
because you're talking aboutyour operating expenses.
(08:36):
What are operating expenses?
Okay, that website you have,the marketing for the website,
the accountant that you payevery month to make sure all
your numbers look good, allthose subscriptions you have,
and then you have to payyourself a salary, and then you
still need to be profitable.
And then after all that, maybeyou have debt payments and you
have to pay the ban, you know,you've got taxes.
So, so often with these smallbusiness owners, one of the
(08:58):
first things I come in is I lookat their numbers first.
Because if the numbers aren'tright, nothing in the business
is going to be right.
No volume of uh great contentor viral marketing or that super
special hire is gonna fix thebusiness if their numbers aren't
right.
And it's not like a softwarecompany where we just have to
get to scale and then it's gonnasort all of our problems.
(09:20):
No, because everything you addis another person who has to
deliver the experience.
Um, so that's just one way Iwork with my clients.
I start with this audit andthen I start identifying, okay,
where are our quick wins here?
We need to increase the priceby 500, you know, per
experience.
There we go.
We're gonna do that our nextlaunch.
We need to tighten up these jobdescriptions and make sure this
(09:42):
person is doing that and thisperson is doing that, playing to
their strengths.
Great.
We need to actually have amarketing system that is doable,
repeatable, and consistent.
None of this, oh, I'll justpost to Instagram, whenever.
No.
You need to have consistency.
And we need to make sure all ofour operations are tight, our
systems are talking to eachother.
If we have standard operatingprocedures, they're documented
(10:02):
so people aren't making stuff upon the fly and wasting time.
Um, so that's how I start witha client.
Once we get through that audit,I see as a fractional COO
where's the best places for meto plug in, where do I need to
hire contractors?
Um, they work with me on amonthly retainer, and then we
work together from anywhere fromthree months to 24 months.
And again, my only objective isto make their business more
(10:23):
profitable.
Um, that's it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (10:27):
Sounds good.
And it in in a sense, I can seenow why you you've got the
other side to the business,which is the um helping people
to understand how they canbecome fractionals themselves
and all the different steps andall the different um aspects
that they need to consider whensetting up.
So again, tell me um is isthere an uh is there a case
(10:49):
study or an example of that youcan you can give?
Because this side that's ideaof business is focused on the
experiential.
Is the fractional coaching justexperiential people or is it
just anybody who wants to be afractional?
Mary Alice Duff (11:02):
It's anybody who wants to be a fractional,
but I really do tend to attractpeople in operations, HR,
basically non-marketing people.
Marketing fractionals arepretty good at figuring out how
to do this, right?
They know how to sell.
That's what they do, right?
It's the people who aretransitioning from a chief
operating officer role at acompany or a chief uh people
(11:24):
officer or head of HR who coulddefinitely monetize their skills
as a self-employed person, butthey just have no idea how to
make that happen because they'veprobably one never even
considered self-employment.
Um, and if they've had, theyjust kind of feel overwhelmed
about it.
And lastly, they're just notnatural marketers.
They're the kind of people whojust want to get on with the
(11:45):
work.
Like my client always says tome, I just want to do good work.
That's it.
And I'm like, yeah, but what'sthat mean?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (11:52):
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff (11:53):
But like if nobody knows you're doing good
work, yeah, you're not gonna getbooked.
Right?
So you have to be able tofigure out how to talk about
your work in a way that gets youclients.
Um, so I just had my firstcohort, we actually finish on
Monday, uh, really excited aboutit.
And, you know, really the bigtakeaway for them is they all
have ironed out theirpositioning.
(12:14):
They know what their offer is,they know how they're pricing
themselves.
Every single one of them wasunderpriced by about 60% when
they came into the program,which again, super duper normal.
Like when I first tookfractional clients, I was
charging so it's anembarrassingly small amount.
Um, and wondered why I wasstuck in like never feeling like
(12:36):
I had enough and working waytoo many hours.
Now I know.
Now I know what I need tocharge for it to be a
sustainable business and what isreflective of what I bring to
the business, right?
Um, but yeah, they all raisetheir prices, they have a
positioning statement.
We taught, uh, we taught themhow to develop an actual
pipeline.
So these are the people you'rereaching out to.
This is why you're reachingout.
How do you write cold emailsthat actually get opened?
(12:57):
How do you have a discoverycall?
How do you write a proposal?
How do you get paid for yourwork?
So step by step by step, nowevery single one of them knows
exactly how to launch and runtheir fractional business.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (13:09):
It's amazing.
And uh no, seriously, it's umbecause like you said, I think
um it there's so manycomplexities and intricacies um
to setting for business.
I'm speaking like I'm not anexpert myself, but you're the
expert in terms of that.
So uh, you know, I I know uhyou know some people just
actually fear doing it.
(13:30):
So having someone who uh likeyou can be be there with them,
especially working uh remotely.
Yeah, um you when you'reconsidering something like this,
or if you're actually doing itand perhaps not doing it to the
level that you want to do it, itcan sometimes get quite it can
get quite isolating, can't it?
(13:51):
And you you you kind of uh aswell as asking chat GPT, you're
wondering else who else you canask who knows what they're what
they're doing.
So somebody like you sort ofyou know gold.
But um what what inspired youto to start this type of
business in a location?
I know you kind of hinted atit, but in a
location-independent sort ofway.
Mary Alice Duff (14:13):
Yeah, so the coaching practice or the my
fractional COO work or both?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (14:19):
Oh both, really, yeah.
Yeah, both.
Mary Alice Duff (14:21):
Yeah, so um I got a taste of remote work
during COVID and realized howmuch better it was for my brain.
I was able to think clearer, Iwasn't exhausted at the end of
the day, I just felt energized.
And um one night, and this waswhen I lived in the United
States, um, one night um myhusband and I were chatting and
we just were kind of joking.
(14:42):
If you could live anywhere inthe world, where would you live?
And we both said, the south ofFrance, ha ha ha.
And it was a joke.
Like it wasn't a thing.
And I was like, wait a minute,could we sell this?
And so, you know, you give me agood idea, I'm gonna go chase
it down.
And so I started Googling, andlo and behold, you can, if you
are a self-employed person, geta visa to come to France and
(15:03):
start a business.
So I knew that I was nevergonna find my clients like
physically in France.
Like, I'm not gonna go walkinto somebody's business in
France.
They they actually have kind ofan old school traditional
approach to employment, and sothe whole fractional thing
hasn't really landed hereamongst French people.
So I knew I needed to build alocation-independent business.
(15:24):
One, I knew I wanted to workremotely.
I was never going into anoffice ever again.
Um, and two, that it justwasn't a fit for the typical
French company.
But what I found was how manyEnglish speakers have businesses
in Europe that are remote,whether they're in France or the
UK or Spain or Portugal orwherever.
(15:44):
Um, and that's how I was ableto build.
I was posting on LinkedIn,posting on socials, meeting
people online, telling themabout how I work, what I offer,
and I got my first client thatway.
Uh, and then that snowballedinto another, into another.
Um, but honestly, uh building alocation independent business
was the best thing I ever did.
Um, there's no amount of moneyyou could pay me to get back
(16:07):
into an office.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (16:08):
I hear that a lot these days.
Mary Alice Duff (16:10):
There's none.
Like there's no number.
Um, and I'm dead serious.
Um, yeah, I just it's the bestthing for my brain, it's the
best thing for my health, it'sthe best thing for my family.
Um I can travel when I want, Ican work when I want.
Um, it's absolutely the bestchoice for me.
Uh, and it works for my clientstoo.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (16:29):
Right, I love hearing this.
And uh no, it's because like Isaid, uh I've kind of slowed
down on doing the interview, soit's kind of uh gives me gives
me energy hearing all of this.
Um so another question I wantedto ask is um you talk about um
your skills, um, e-commerce, umuh helping people with on the
(16:50):
coaching side, the operationalside, and the coach, you know,
some people along the way, youuh if you're thinking about
doing something like this,you're gonna have to do some
sort of like self self-audit,you know, in terms of what what
you're good at, you know, notjust the soft but the hard
skills.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (17:08):
You know, how did you go about that?
Is that something that well,I'm assuming that's something
that you did, but it's it wassomebody did somebody say to
you, Mary Allice, you know what,you should do this, or did you
did you think let me do it?
Mary Alice Duff (17:21):
So the last job I had before I became um an
entrepreneur was I was a chiefof staff.
And so a chief of staff is asuper cool job.
It's the right hand of a CEO ina company, um, and they get to
touch every part of thebusiness.
And it's really great forpeople whose brains get bored,
who are very curious, who liketo draw connections between
(17:44):
things, um, who are goodcommunicators, it can be very
convincing.
Um, and they just crack on,they just get shit done.
That's just like that's atypical chief of staff, right?
Um, and I realized how much Iliked connecting the dots,
building, and not doing the samething every day.
Um, and that's how I learnedeverything about operations,
finance, fundraising, marketing,because I was in this position
(18:06):
that forced me to work witheverybody.
I wasn't, I didn't get to belike just hide in my silo,
right?
I had to work with everybody,the HR department, the fine, the
CFO, whomever.
Um, so then when I went out andstarted my own company, um, you
know, being the chief of staffat a nonprofit is wildly
different than going out andstarting your own clothing
business, right?
(18:26):
Um, but the beauty of startingsomething is you don't know what
you don't know.
So you go in thinking, allright, you know, I've got these
skills, I've got that, and thenyou actually start doing it and
you're like, shit, I don't knowanything.
Uh so I joke that everything Ilearned about small business
finance, I learned by spendingand losing my own money.
Like every mistake I made, Ilearned the hard way, you know?
(18:49):
And so when I have my clientsand I'm looking at their
financials, I'm like, I'mtelling you you need to raise
this price, not because like wejust want to put more money in
our pockets, because I want yourbusiness to survive because
mine's in it, because I wouldn'traise my prices, right?
Like I'm trying to save youfrom yourself.
Let me help you.
Um but yeah, I don't know ifthere's so much of self-audit.
(19:10):
There's to get on with the workand you have to do things, and
as you're doing them, yourealize I'm really great at
this, or I'm really struggling.
Let me call in some help.
Let me find somebody toconsult, uh, somebody who can
train me.
Can I t teach myself thisskill, whatever it is?
But so much of businessdevelopment and entrepreneurship
is it's like this constantself-development loop, this
(19:34):
constant personal developmentloop of trying, failing,
learning, trying, failing,learning over and over and over
again.
Um yeah, it doesn't mean you'reever gonna be good at anything
at everything, but you you doget to figure out, okay, where
are my strengths, where should Ibe spending my time versus
where do I need support, youknow?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (19:53):
Yes, uh uh, definitely.
And um I think to do the kindof work that you're doing, um
You have to have thatentrepreneurial mindset, don't
you?
Um people say it it sounds abit cliche like you shouldn't
have a fear of failure, but Ithink that that that's something
that I guess a lot of peoplewill will have in the back end
(20:16):
of the mind that nobody wants tofail, do they?
They want they want people theywant to be successful.
Um that was actually leading mesomewhere, but I can't remember
what what line I was goingdown.
But in terms of how did yousort of like then stack stack
things up?
From chief of you've gone fromchief of staff, and now you've
got you've got this uh this umstack of skills that you've that
(20:39):
you've built up.
Um how do you go from that tothen business knowing that
people need need you and thenonto targeting those people and
finding those clients?
Mary Alice Duff (20:56):
So honestly, I I have found LinkedIn to be the
most incredible resource uh forme and my small business.
So I don't use any other socialplatforms anymore.
Like I gave them all up maybefive years ago, four years ago.
Uh was it three years ago?
It's it's been liberating, tobe quite honest.
Um, and so I'm consistentlyposting useful content on
(21:17):
LinkedIn, uh, you know, having areally tight LinkedIn profile
that showcases what I do, who Iwork with, and all my past
clients.
Um I talk about how I can helpother businesses, but more than
anything, I'm just a human thatpeople want to get to know.
And I take their coffee chats,like I answer my DMs, I give my
time when I'm not getting paidfor it.
(21:38):
Like I genuinely believe, likejust keep talking to people.
Um, and then I send reallygreat cold emails, if I'm being
honest.
Um, I have multiple clients whohave I booked who don't use
LinkedIn because I sent a greatcold email with a great subject
line.
Um, and so that's kind of how Istart talking to clients.
So I I I genuinely say, I thinkyour business is awesome.
(22:01):
Here's how I can help.
I help such and such client dothis thing, very similar space.
Would you be up for a chat tosee how I can lend a hand?
And people genuinely like sayyeah.
And we have a conversation andI see if I can offer them my
service.
Sometimes it's not a good fit.
Sometimes I'm like, hey, youcan't afford me right now, but
(22:22):
here's the five things I woulddo in your business tomorrow.
I'd set up your, you know, youremail capture and improve your
email marketing so that you'reactually building and nurturing
your relationship, right?
I'll offer them free advice orwhatever.
And then six months later, theymight come back to me and say,
hey, business is doing great.
We could actually afford younow and we could use your help.
Um, so that's been invaluablefor me.
Just relationships, talking topeople online, connecting.
(22:43):
LinkedIn is how I do that,LinkedIn and email.
Um, yeah, and I'm just alwaysopen to a chat, genuinely.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (22:51):
I think some people struggle with the
idea that um, you know, you canuse LinkedIn for that.
So from crossing the theboundary or the bridge of sort
of sending a message to thentranslating that message into a
conversation, that conversationinto uh you know uh into um sort
(23:11):
of what you're doing in termsof business.
Do you have a sort of like uh asystem that you use to do that?
Or is it is it is it just likeyou said, it's human connection.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
It's human connection.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (23:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Another question on top of thatis obviously the like you said,
LinkedIn is a great I you know,I spend most of my time on
LinkedIn.
There are so many businesses,so many people.
You mentioned your sort of likeum avatar, as it were, in terms
of type of business that you'vethat you sort of um um
approach, but how do you knowthat they need your help?
(23:46):
For example.
Mary Alice Duff (23:47):
So that's the tricky thing.
So this is the tricky thingabout operation.
So if you are a fractionalchief marketing officer, for
example, you can go on theirwebsite, you can go on their
social, you can sign up fortheir email marketing, and
within an hour, you're like,this email sucks, your social
sucks, your website isn'toptimized, and you can genuinely
offer suggestions.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Right.
Mary Alice Duff (24:07):
When you're doing the work I'm doing, it's
the kind of work that foundersdon't talk about.
They're embarrassed that theirproducts aren't profitable,
they're embarrassed that theirteam members aren't being paid
properly or don't have jobdescriptions, or they, God
forbid, but I hear this all thetime, aren't really sure what
their team is doing all day.
I'm like, you're and it's notthat the team is jerking them
(24:28):
around.
It's almost never that.
It's just genuinely shittycommunication, you know?
Um, it's all the stuff they'reembarrassed to admit is not
working in their business, butalso it's so normal.
It's so normal.
I have yet to meet a smallbusiness owner who has it all
together.
It's always a mess.
My business was a mess.
(24:50):
It's always a mess, right?
And so that becomes the trickybit is that I don't know what
help they need.
And that's why I don't havelike a lot of uh consultants or
fractional people have an offer.
It's like a fixed offer.
I do X, Y, and Z.
Because the work I do is socustomized, because every
business is gonna have differentissues.
I don't have a fixed offer.
(25:12):
I just want to get people onthe phone or on a uh a Zoom or a
Google Meet that I can talk tothem and learn about their
business.
Um my best clients are the oneswho just spill their guts in
that first call.
You know, and I I was just on acall the other day.
She pulled up her QuickBooksand she was like, look at this,
showing me her accounting.
And I was like, All right, wegot work to do.
But like, that's the kind offounder I love who is just so
(25:35):
self-aware that they don't knowwhat they don't know and they've
reached a point where they needhelp.
Um, but the only way I knowthat is if I have real
conversations because foundersaren't just going to fork over
that information.
It's embarrassing, it'svulnerable.
So they need to feel like theycan trust me.
And that is what my onlinepersona, if you will, I think it
(25:57):
engenders trust because I'mvulnerable, I tell it like it
is, I'm very direct.
So people feel that they can bethat way with me.
I hope.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (26:05):
Yeah, and I I can just see why, you know,
the charisma that you have aswell is like once some somebody
sort of gets talking to you, I'msure that sort of that that
messaging that you have, thatthat sort of natural net about
yourself um comes across in notjust in your sort of written
messages, but then in yourmeetings, you know.
Um not just that, but you Ijust feel that you have like um
(26:29):
a real sort of this is this iswho you are.
It's like this is you, this iswhere you want to be, sort of
thing.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (26:36):
And that you've actually worked out what
a lot of people are trying to dois you know, where where's
where do I fit?
You know, you know.
But I mean, I'm sure you've hadyou mentioned some challenges
that you mentioned the early on,and you mentioned the the money
side of things.
Um what uh were there anyparticular challenges that stand
out for you when you're sort ofin the early phases of setting
(26:58):
up?
Mary Alice Duff (26:59):
Yeah, so in the early stages of my fractional
practice, uh I just wasn'tcharging enough.
Um, I wasn't owning theengagement, I was treating those
engagements as if it was somesort of pseudo-employee-employer
relationship.
And instead of me being thesubject matter expert, coming in
(27:24):
and providing a service toanother business, right?
Um, and so oftentimes it justset up like a weird power
dynamic.
I wasn't charging enough.
Um, and then I would give up onmy pipeline.
So when I would be booked andbusy, right, I would not be
nurturing my pipeline.
And so what that does is itprevents you from being able to
(27:45):
walk away from a bad engagementbecause you don't have a
potential client on the backburner.
And I see this constantly withso like self-employed people,
freelancers, fractionals, whathave you, is they accept too low
pay, bad relationships, poortreatment because they have
stopped nurturing theirbusiness.
(28:07):
They don't have a pipeline,they stopped posting on
LinkedIn.
Oh, I got really busy.
Sure, but now you're stuckbecause you can't walk away,
because you don't have a plan B.
Um, and I that was my biggesttrap.
And I went six months without aclient when I finally decided
to walk away from a clientengagement.
I went six months.
Thankfully, I had saved upenough money because I knew I
(28:30):
was leaving, but my biggestregret was I took my foot off
the gas in terms of pipelinedevelopment and nurturing my
people.
So now I'm booked and busy, butI am still posting on LinkedIn
three, four times a week.
I'm still in DMs, I still takecoffee chats, I still talk to
people because you never know.
You never know when a clientrelationship just isn't working
(28:50):
out anymore, or the businesscould decide to sell, or any
number of things can happen.
But as a self-employed person,you need to be prepared.
And the first thing that youshould always be working on is
your own business, not yourclient work, your own work, your
business.
Um, so that way you protectyourself and you can stay in the
game for the long haul.
Um, so biggest mistake, lessonlearned, never again.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (29:14):
Yeah, I I've I've experienced that
myself where I was probably onthe other side, I was a bit more
I was a bit too reliant on aparticular client and perhaps
took my my foot off the gas interms of the the pipeline, and
then I got stung myself becausethat client then started to
freeze their hiring and slow itdown, and then all of a sudden
(29:37):
wasn't as much money coming in,and then the panic set in a
little.
Mary Alice Duff (29:40):
Yeah, it happens all the time.
It happens all the time, allthe time, constantly, you know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (29:46):
And when I look at look at your LinkedIn
profile, because obviously thethe the the S word that
everybody sort of uh doesn'tlike when it comes to business
sales.
Um I think sales, businessdevelopment, that's that's an
integral integral part ofsetting up any business.
Um and when I look at yourprofile, I don't really see
(30:11):
obvious signs that you uh havedone like marketing, obviously,
and you're obviously a people'sperson, as much as you say, in
fact, I'm an introvert myself,but you have a very sort of like
um you're very much a people'sperson and somebody who can can
connect with people very easily,I feel.
Um what where does the sort ofthe because you're talking about
(30:35):
pipelines as well, and that's asales sort of keyword.
Where did you learn all that?
Where did all that come from?
Mary Alice Duff (30:41):
Uh I again I think this is one of those
instances of you don't know whatyou don't know.
And I didn't learn about salesor pipeline development when I
had my e-commerce businessbecause there are no sales.
It's marketing, it's a funnel,right?
You have your top of funnel,middle funnel, bottom funnel,
email marketing social.
Like I learned that shit insideand out.
So when I started my fractionalpractice, I was at a total
(31:03):
deficit.
I knew nothing about sales,nothing about pipeline
development.
And it really was just like ajourney of teaching myself
everything I could possiblylearn.
You know, and I tried all ofthe different tools, the CRMs
and you know, some LinkedIn guy,you know, telling me buy this
course.
Like I tried.
None of it worked for me.
You know what works for me?
(31:23):
A freaking Google Sheet.
I have a Google sheet of allthese super cool companies that
I would just absolutely love towork with.
I have their email address, Irate them on a scale of cold,
warm, or hot.
I reach out to them onLinkedIn, connect with them,
send them an email.
That's my CRM.
It's you're not very sexy.
I don't care, it works.
Um, and that I learnedeverything about pipeline
(31:43):
development and sales because Iwas so shit at it.
And I realized like, I need tofigure out because like what
we're doing right now, I'm goodat.
I'm good at talking to people.
Yeah, that isn't the issue.
Having the sales call, closingthe deal was never the issue
because I come to a salesmeeting and I put sales in air
quotes because I don't eventhink of it as sales.
(32:04):
How can I help?
How can I help this person?
Right?
I'll help them right there inthe call, right?
But getting to that point feltso mysterious to me.
So I just taught myselfeverything I possibly could
about building a pipeline,getting people on the phone.
Um, and also had a really greatclient who um, one of the
(32:25):
co-founders is like a salesgenius, and I would just ask him
a million questions.
So the really cool thing aboutmy work is that I'm constantly
learning from people smarterthan me, like my own clients who
have gotten really good at aspecific thing.
So I've just basically beenpicking his brain about like
sales-related stuff, and thenI'd apply them to my own little
itty-bitty professionalpractice.
(32:45):
Um, but yeah, I've gottenpretty good at it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (32:48):
Sounds that way.
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff (32:51):
All way through trial and error.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (32:54):
You're right though.
I mean, sales is is is aboutlike a a natural way of finding
a natural way of connecting.
I think it's changed quite alot.
The yeah, sales before used to,I think, used to be a bit more
about the hard sell and sort oflike hitting the phones and um
you know going through, youknow, um making 150 cold calls
(33:16):
each day.
Um whereas yeah, I you youremind me of somebody else,
actually.
Somebody my one of my formerbosses actually, he um business
owner, he has a very similarsort of principle to you in the
sense that it's about uhconnecting with people based on
you know values, but you know,based on having an interest.
You mentioned working withexperiential businesses.
(33:38):
That must be something that'scome from uh you know your your
your you know uh passion for oneyou know wanting to work for
those sorts of businesses.
So yeah, I I definitely likethat sort of um that that that
principle.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (33:52):
Um one thing you were talking about,
okay.
So there's it sounds likeyou're you I don't know if I'm
correct in saying this, but uhyou you not systematic from a
robotic point of view, but I getthe feeling that you're very um
sort of like organized in inwhat you do, um in the in the
business sense.
I mean like sort of you you yousort your pipeline out, you do
(34:15):
yeah, I'm not saying necessarilyin a methodical way, but you
know what you have to do inorder to sort of get from point
A to point Z.
Um and how do you then stay,how do you keep productive?
Because there's so many for me,as especially as a parent, I've
got three children, um workfrom home, you know, work from
(34:35):
different, not just from home,but from different places, and
there are a lot of distractionsas well to that.
And there's you know, how doyou stay productive in your day?
Mary Alice Duff (34:46):
Um, you know, I've never, I will say I'm quite
a disciplined person.
Um, I am extremelygoal-oriented.
If I want something, if it's afinancial target or a personal
goal, like I am just that kindof person who's just gonna go
for it.
Um, I'm annoying in that way,like 6 a.m.
(35:07):
I'm up, I'm working out, likeI'm taking kicking ass and
taking names.
I am just a bit wired likethat.
Um but I will say one thingthat's been really helpful is
taking that first part of myday, like when I do sit down to
do work and focusing exclusivelyon my business.
So I don't start my client workuntil about like 10, 10, 15,
(35:28):
but I start my work day around8, 8, 15.
Um and so that ensures that mybusiness is getting the
attention it deserves every day.
It's never like being pushed tothe back burner.
Um, also, quite frankly, I am aforeigner.
I'm an immigrant living in acountry who could decide at any
time to say, no, thank you.
You can go now.
Um, and so the more successfulmy business is, the more likely
(35:52):
they are to allow me to stay,and the more likely I could
attain French citizenship, whichthen means I have freedom of
mobility all throughout theEuropean Union.
That's a hell of a motivator.
Yes, you are kicking me out.
Like I'm staying here.
Um then thirdly, thirdly, Ilove money.
I mean, I'm just gonna be outwith it.
Like I I have a family tosupport.
(36:14):
I don't come from wealth, Ihave I have no backup plan.
There's nobody back in theUnited States who could send me
a check if I was in a pinch.
It is just me.
Um, you know, I'm married, I'vegot an 11-year-old daughter,
um, and I just am absolutelyhellbent on helping her build
generational wealth so she hasaccess to the opportunities that
(36:35):
I just didn't have.
Um, so yeah, I guess thosethose three things keep me
pretty uh on it, you know, Idon't feel like sending that
cold email today.
And I'm like, do I hate coldemails more than I love money?
Yeah.
I'm sending the cold email.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (36:53):
I hear you, I hear you.
So you were taught, you yougave us quite a little bit of a
sort of a hint in terms of youryour calendar.
So no, it's not your daily sortof uh schedule.
Um you so do you you'll getyou're working out at 6 a.m.?
Is that and then you're sort oflike you get into 8 a.m.
You get into sort of your youmentioned your business work,
(37:15):
and then how does that look?
How does that day look for you?
Mary Alice Duff (37:19):
So I'm up at 6, and then I take my daughter to
school.
Uh I ride her on my bike toschool.
I'm back at my desk by 8:15,I'm doing my own business work
from like 8.15 to 10.
And so that could be followingup with my coaching clients, it
could be business development,it could be writing LinkedIn
content, it could be working onmy newsletter, any of those
things, right?
Um, then on Mondays inparticular, I like to stack up
(37:41):
all my client meetings, myface-to-face time with all my my
principals.
So anybody I'm doing fractionalCOO work, I like to meet with
the founder every Monday so thatwe can plot out the week
together.
Here's the things I'm workingon, these are my priorities, do
they align with your priorities?
Here's how they tie to thebigger picture, et cetera.
And then I'm off to the racesfor the rest of the week, um,
prioritizing various clientprojects uh and just like
(38:04):
getting shit done, basically.
Um, but I really do try tobreak up my day so that that
first part of the day is on mybusiness, second part of the day
is on the client.
I like to take a uh, you know,a decent lunch, go for a walk,
walk my dog, um, and then I wrapup.
But I have been finding thatI'm trying to lean more into
like my natural energy andrhythms.
(38:25):
And if I'm feeling particularlyinspired to write something on
a Sunday afternoon, like I doit, you know.
Um, you know, I don't havethree kids, just the one.
And I am finding like, youknow, I have more time now to
kind of dedicate to just likewriting and being creative.
And so really trying to enjoythat.
But my days are prettystructured.
(38:45):
Uh, but then again, if like I'mfeeling like shit and I just
don't want to work that day,I'll close the laptop and go for
a walk, go run errands, go findsomething to do.
Um, because my work isasynchronous for the most part.
People don't need immediateanswers from me.
I'm not working on things thatare like urgent, they're more
long-term and strategic.
Um, I do have a virtualassistant who I can delegate
(39:08):
tasks to.
Um, and then with the clients Iwork with, I also have team
members I can delegate thingsto.
So um, yeah, I mean it's prettystructured, but I also have a
lot of flexibility.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (39:19):
That's pretty good.
Right.
Yeah.
And that uh that acronym AI issort of floating around a lot in
different spheres of work.
Yeah.
Um is AI something or any sortof form of forms of automation?
Are you using any of that tosort of put you in an advantage
in terms that you uhasynchronous works brilliantly,
(39:41):
you know, anything else?
Mary Alice Duff (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely am a chat GPT power
user for sure.
Um, so like a lot of the thingsthat I'll be doing um when I'm
like developing the best processfor doing something.
So I go through the process acouple of times and then I make
a voice note, I dump it intoChatGPT and into A template that
I've created, and now we have astandard operating procedure
for that thing that I can thenshare with the team.
(40:06):
Um, you know, whether it'screating a content calendar or
I'll have a team meeting with abunch of people, and then we
need to get what we talked aboutinto an Asana project.
So I'll dump the transcriptinto Chat GPT and I'll tell it,
make it into an Asana projectwith all of my headers, who's
doing what, suggested deadlines,and then we're just dropping
that into Asana.
So I definitely am usingChatGPT in my day-to-day work,
(40:28):
and I'm starting to experimentwith um some new tools like AI
agents.
So instead of just a singleprompt, it's uh actual like
AI-powered agents doing oneprompt from the next to the
next.
So create a creative brief forthis blog post.
Great.
Write the blog post, humanreviews it, great.
Post the blog post to thewebsite, great.
(40:50):
Go on to Canva and create a pinfor the blog post.
Okay.
Go on to Pinterest and pin thepin linking back to the website.
Do that 100 times.
So that's what we'reexperimenting with right now.
Um, the reality is like Iwouldn't be able to manage the
client load that I have plus mycoaching program as a one-person
business if I didn't have AItools.
(41:11):
It would it would just beimpossible.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (41:15):
Yeah, I I did think that.
It's like a lot.
Some people only some peoplejust have a coaching business,
and that's that sort of like soyeah, I have to take my hat off
to you for that.
But um so uh I know you youyou've got the coaching side of
your business, but but um foranybody listening, um what what
(41:35):
advice would you give to youknow anybody who was looking to
start their own locationindependent freelance business
or fra you know to become afractional like yourself?
Mary Alice Duff (41:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So one of the little hacks thatum I've shared with people
online, just to kind of get youthinking more like an
entrepreneur and less like anemployee.
So to take your resume and beefit up with everything you've
ever done.
Don't worry, you know, ifthings are related, put all of
your skills, all of youraccomplishments, things that
you've really loved, projectsyou've led, put it into Chat GPT
(42:10):
and ask it the following.
Um, if I were self-employed, ifI was going to start a business
of one, suggest some serviceofferings I could offer with my
skills and interests and myaccomplishments using that
information.
And then who would I sell thoseservices to?
And that will give you a chancefor you to kind of zoom out and
say, okay, I've been doing HRwork.
(42:31):
Oh, look, there's all thiscommon denominator between all
of these companies.
They all, you know, are in thefood industry.
Okay, that's interesting.
I could sell myself as an, youknow, a fractional HR person for
small businesses in the foodspace, something to that effect.
But what this activity does isit gets you to start thinking as
someone independent from acompany, someone independent
(42:54):
from relying on a paycheck froma single employer, and gets you
to start thinking of how can youtake your skills, your
services, your experiences, yourpreferences, and craft them in
a way that works for you, right?
That aligns with your life andalso is sellable and who it
could be sellable to.
Um and it's just a good way tokind of get thinking about how
(43:16):
you could be self-employed.
Um, I've done it and it alwayscomes back, you know, you should
be a fractional COL.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (43:24):
I've never thought of actually doing doing
it in that way, but yeah, it'sit's it's definitely good advice
and it's working for you.
And um but what I want to knownow as we begin to wrap up,
yeah, what Mary are your goals?
What what what's what's thefuture look like for you and
your business?
Um and also where can peoplefind you online?
Mary Alice Duff (43:47):
Yeah.
So what's the future look like?
You know, um, so one of thethings um that I'm working on
right now is thinking throughhow to scale what I do without
having to work more or hire abunch of people.
Um, I've definitely gone downthat road before.
I had a company, I had a bunchof employees.
It was exceptionally stressfulworrying about payroll every two
(44:10):
weeks.
Um, and so one of the thingsI'm working on right now is
productizing my intellectualproperty.
So there's a very specific wayI work with people.
Um, it's extremelyhuman-centered.
I try, uh I do have a socialwork background, so I'm always
trying to come uh at people tounderstand like where they are,
where they come from, whatmotivates them, what makes them
(44:31):
tick.
And I think because I do that,it helps me work with people in
a way uh that's successfulbecause I'm actually meeting
them where they are, right?
So I'm thinking through how toproductize my IP and what that
might look like.
So whether that's courses or abook or workshops or whatever,
um, that's definitely somethingI'm thinking through.
(44:51):
Um, but you know, the futurefor me is continuing delivering
for my clients, uh, expanding mycoaching program, um, and
enjoying my life.
I like my life.
So, you know, improving myFrench, traveling, you know,
having a good time.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (45:08):
Sounds good.
Sounds good.
And where can anybody who'sinterested in either finding out
more about your um COO practiceor your coach practice, where's
the best place to look?
I think I'm I'm I think I knowwhat you might say, but yeah,
you tell me.
Mary Alice Duff (45:22):
Definitely LinkedIn.
That's the only place I hangout.
LinkedIn and I have anewsletter.
Um, but yeah, LinkedIn isdefinitely the first port of
call.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (45:30):
Excellent.
Thank you.
It's been enlightening, it'sbeen entertaining, it's been,
you know, um energizing.
So thank you for joining metoday.
Mary Alice Duff (45:38):
Thanks for having me, Alex.
Hey everybody's Alex again at the
Remote Work Live Podcast.
Today I've got with me uh MaryAlice Duff.
She lives in the south ofFrance with her husband,
daughter, Dog Kat.
A move that they made quite onscene four years ago and they've
never looked back.
If you're not travelingthroughout Southern Europe for
(00:20):
talking to a good book, you'llfind in the kitchen cooking,
baking, or entertaining.
Work-wise as a portfoliocareerist.
He's a partner globally remotesmall businesses as a fractional
COO and transformation partner.
He runs a remote coachingprogram for new fractional
(00:42):
operators and writes about themessy, joyful reality of
self-employment and smallbusiness through a newsletter,
op, and other opinions.
These days he tries to approachboth work and life with a
spirit of joie de vive.
Curious, playful, and full ofpossibility.
Probably one of the bestintroductors I've ever heard on
(01:04):
this podcast.
If not the best.
Very welcome, Mary Alice.
Thank you for joining me today.
Mary Alice Duff (01:12):
Thanks for having me.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (01:14):
Pleasure, absolute pleasure.
So as I always do, can you justbegin by telling me?
I know I've given a little bitof introduction there, but give
me a bit about your backgroundand what led you to this point.
Mary Alice Duff (01:27):
Yeah, sure.
So I have a prettyunconventional background.
I actually started my career insocial work and community
organizing.
I worked in the nonprofitsector, I don't know, 10 years.
No, I actually started when Iwas 16 in the nonprofit sector.
And I went to school for socialwork, and I thought that would
be my career, you know, studyingsocial change and law and
(01:48):
social policy.
And I did that for a while andI really enjoyed it.
But along the way, I realizedthat wasn't the life I wanted.
I wanted to carve out somethingfor myself.
So I made a very sharp rightturn and started a clothing
company.
And I ran what was called avertically integrated clothing
company.
So we designed, cut, sewedeverything in-house in a studio
(02:11):
in Philadelphia, and we shippedit to customers around the
world.
Um, and that was awesome, butalso exhausting.
And uh, if anybody listeningworks in fashion, it is
absolutely brutal.
It's hard to make money,margins are tight.
Um, and then COVID happened andI started working remotely, and
I got a taste of workingremotely and fell in love with
(02:32):
remote work and realized assomeone who's quite introverted,
remote work suits me because Idon't have to do as much
peopleing.
So I don't get I don't getfried as quickly as in-person
communication.
Um, and so I closed my clothingbusiness and I pivoted to
helping other small businessowners build globally remote
businesses.
(02:52):
Um I do that by partnering withthem uh to increase their
revenue, focusing onprofitability, getting their
team in alignment, uh, andbasically running businesses
that are joyful, um, that don'tburn themselves out or their
teams out or through piles ofcash.
Uh so that's what I do now.
And then I coach other peoplewho want to enter fractional
work.
Uh, there's definitely anexplosion happening in the
(03:14):
fractional space, and so I helppeople who are transitioning
from full-time employment toworking for themselves.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (03:22):
Sounds good.
Sounds great to me.
Um, and I'm glad you're heretoday because there's a lot I
can learn, there's a lot forpeople out there who need to
learn and want to learn aboutthis way of working.
Um you've got different layersto your experience.
You've got, you know, you'veyou've walked the walked the
talk.
Is that is that you've walkedthe talk, you've you know,
(03:45):
you've had your business, you'veset up it was an e-commerce
business, I take it like was itShopify, something like that?
Mary Alice Duff (03:51):
Yep, yeah, something like that.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (03:53):
And now you're uh as well as that,
you're not just done done thesort of um you've had been in
the trenches on that side, butalso um in the operational side.
So it's there's a lot to learn.
But um what I'm intrigued toknow is uh I want to dig a bit
deeper into your business andtell me a bit more about the
business.
Mary Alice Duff (04:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So uh I have a couple ofdifferent revenue streams.
The primary one is I partnerwith these small businesses.
So they operate, they've beenremote since day one.
Like they've never had anoffice, they often have team
members in various countries,there's often multiple languages
being spoken.
Um, and we're working acrossborders, time zones, et cetera.
(04:32):
Um, my bottom line for who Iwork with is they have to have a
phenomenal product or service,but everything else is a bit of
a mess.
Um, so you know, people don'treally know, uh, they don't have
a clear job description, theydon't know what they're
responsible for, what they'rebeing held accountable for.
Delivery is kind ofinconsistent, you know, they
don't have standard operatingprocedures.
Maybe their pricing is off.
(04:53):
So um, you know, they might bedoing really well, but they're
not profitable.
Revenue looks good, but they'reactually bleeding money every
month.
Maybe they don't have marketingsystems.
Um, so bottom line is sub 5million, 3 million in revenue,
uh, as small as 500k in revenue.
Um, they have a globally remoteteam.
They they've never evenconsidered an office.
(05:14):
Uh, a lot of the companies Iwork with are what are called uh
experiential.
So they're offering anin-person product or service.
It's very human-driven.
Um, and I go in as theirtransformation partner, and my
only objective is to make theirbusiness more profitable uh
without burning through theirteam, right?
I'm like anti-burnout, I'mpeople-centered, um, and doing
(05:37):
it in a way that's super scrappyand sustainable.
So I'm never gonna suggest afix like spend 20 grand a month
on Facebook ads, or you need tohire this shiny marketing
consultant, because it's allabout uh organic, working
scrappily, uh workingsustainably, things that these
businesses can actually handlebecause they're bootstrapped,
they don't have investmentfinancing.
(05:58):
Um so that's one part of thebusiness.
I can take three clients at atime.
Uh, that would make me very,very busy.
Uh, my sweet spot is two.
And then in addition to that, Irun this coaching program.
So it's a six-week coachingprogram.
Uh, it's people who aretransitioning from full-time
work and they want to set up asolo fractional uh business on
their own.
(06:18):
So they want to do theconsulting work that I do, but
on their own.
But they've never beenself-employed before.
So, how do they define theiroffer, their positioning?
Where do they find clients?
How do they price?
What kind of tools do they needin order to do this?
How do they protect themselves?
All those things.
So, together over the course ofsix weeks, we go over that.
At the end of the six weeks,they're ready to launch a
(06:39):
fractional practice and startmaking money on their own,
working from wherever theychoose.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (06:46):
That kind of uh prompts other questions
that I probably didn't put onthe the list of questions.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
That's okay.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (06:52):
You know, I I I because I'm intrigued now
because that you've talkedyou've spoken about the the
theoretical things.
Have you got like a the firstthe the um the sort of first
side of your business?
Have you got like a practicalexample of you don't necessarily
have to name the client if youdon't want to, but have you got
a practical example of howyou've how you've done done
that?
Mary Alice Duff (07:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I have a client right now,they're in the retreat space, so
they offer um retreats toindividuals who want to escape
to France.
And uh one of the things I'mdoing for them is the it's the
first thing I do when workingwith a client.
I do a comprehensive audit oftheir business.
So I'm digging into all theirfinancials, I'm digging into all
their marketing brand and salesstuff, I'm digging into their
(07:33):
people.
Um so I'm meeting their people,I'm getting their job
descriptions, I'm interviewingthem, and then I'm looking at
all their systems.
So, how are things talking toeach other?
What kind of tech are theyusing?
Do they have standard processesor do they keep repeating
themselves?
Um, so for example, first thingI notice in this audit is their
pricing is too low.
So every retreat they'reactually selling is actually
(07:55):
making the business worse.
Um, and a lot of times, youknow, especially new business
owners, they don't come from abusiness background.
They have a passion for theservice that they're offering,
right?
So whether it's food tours orum, you know, some hospitality
experience, or uh, you know, myhusband does edtech, he does
(08:16):
STEM activities with kids.
They're coming at it from thebackground of they're providing
an experience that they'reexcited about, that they want to
get their clients excitedabout.
And they just see, oh, okay,I've priced it.
I, you know, I make I make moremoney than it costs.
That's good, right?
And it's like, you need to makeway more money than it costs
because you're talking aboutyour operating expenses.
(08:36):
What are operating expenses?
Okay, that website you have,the marketing for the website,
the accountant that you payevery month to make sure all
your numbers look good, allthose subscriptions you have,
and then you have to payyourself a salary, and then you
still need to be profitable.
And then after all that, maybeyou have debt payments and you
have to pay the ban, you know,you've got taxes.
So, so often with these smallbusiness owners, one of the
(08:58):
first things I come in is I lookat their numbers first.
Because if the numbers aren'tright, nothing in the business
is going to be right.
No volume of uh great contentor viral marketing or that super
special hire is gonna fix thebusiness if their numbers aren't
right.
And it's not like a softwarecompany where we just have to
get to scale and then it's gonnasort all of our problems.
(09:20):
No, because everything you addis another person who has to
deliver the experience.
Um, so that's just one way Iwork with my clients.
I start with this audit andthen I start identifying, okay,
where are our quick wins here?
We need to increase the priceby 500, you know, per
experience.
There we go.
We're gonna do that our nextlaunch.
We need to tighten up these jobdescriptions and make sure this
(09:42):
person is doing that and thisperson is doing that, playing to
their strengths.
Great.
We need to actually have amarketing system that is doable,
repeatable, and consistent.
None of this, oh, I'll justpost to Instagram, whenever.
No.
You need to have consistency.
And we need to make sure all ofour operations are tight, our
systems are talking to eachother.
If we have standard operatingprocedures, they're documented
(10:02):
so people aren't making stuff upon the fly and wasting time.
Um, so that's how I start witha client.
Once we get through that audit,I see as a fractional COO
where's the best places for meto plug in, where do I need to
hire contractors?
Um, they work with me on amonthly retainer, and then we
work together from anywhere fromthree months to 24 months.
And again, my only objective isto make their business more
(10:23):
profitable.
Um, that's it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (10:27):
Sounds good.
And it in in a sense, I can seenow why you you've got the
other side to the business,which is the um helping people
to understand how they canbecome fractionals themselves
and all the different steps andall the different um aspects
that they need to consider whensetting up.
So again, tell me um is isthere an uh is there a case
(10:49):
study or an example of that youcan you can give?
Because this side that's ideaof business is focused on the
experiential.
Is the fractional coaching justexperiential people or is it
just anybody who wants to be afractional?
Mary Alice Duff (11:02):
It's anybody who wants to be a fractional,
but I really do tend to attractpeople in operations, HR,
basically non-marketing people.
Marketing fractionals arepretty good at figuring out how
to do this, right?
They know how to sell.
That's what they do, right?
It's the people who aretransitioning from a chief
operating officer role at acompany or a chief uh people
(11:24):
officer or head of HR who coulddefinitely monetize their skills
as a self-employed person, butthey just have no idea how to
make that happen because they'veprobably one never even
considered self-employment.
Um, and if they've had, theyjust kind of feel overwhelmed
about it.
And lastly, they're just notnatural marketers.
They're the kind of people whojust want to get on with the
(11:45):
work.
Like my client always says tome, I just want to do good work.
That's it.
And I'm like, yeah, but what'sthat mean?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (11:52):
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff (11:53):
But like if nobody knows you're doing good
work, yeah, you're not gonna getbooked.
Right?
So you have to be able tofigure out how to talk about
your work in a way that gets youclients.
Um, so I just had my firstcohort, we actually finish on
Monday, uh, really excited aboutit.
And, you know, really the bigtakeaway for them is they all
have ironed out theirpositioning.
(12:14):
They know what their offer is,they know how they're pricing
themselves.
Every single one of them wasunderpriced by about 60% when
they came into the program,which again, super duper normal.
Like when I first tookfractional clients, I was
charging so it's anembarrassingly small amount.
Um, and wondered why I wasstuck in like never feeling like
(12:36):
I had enough and working waytoo many hours.
Now I know.
Now I know what I need tocharge for it to be a
sustainable business and what isreflective of what I bring to
the business, right?
Um, but yeah, they all raisetheir prices, they have a
positioning statement.
We taught, uh, we taught themhow to develop an actual
pipeline.
So these are the people you'rereaching out to.
This is why you're reachingout.
How do you write cold emailsthat actually get opened?
(12:57):
How do you have a discoverycall?
How do you write a proposal?
How do you get paid for yourwork?
So step by step by step, nowevery single one of them knows
exactly how to launch and runtheir fractional business.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (13:09):
It's amazing.
And uh no, seriously, it's umbecause like you said, I think
um it there's so manycomplexities and intricacies um
to setting for business.
I'm speaking like I'm not anexpert myself, but you're the
expert in terms of that.
So uh, you know, I I know uhyou know some people just
actually fear doing it.
(13:30):
So having someone who uh likeyou can be be there with them,
especially working uh remotely.
Yeah, um you when you'reconsidering something like this,
or if you're actually doing itand perhaps not doing it to the
level that you want to do it, itcan sometimes get quite it can
get quite isolating, can't it?
(13:51):
And you you you kind of uh aswell as asking chat GPT, you're
wondering else who else you canask who knows what they're what
they're doing.
So somebody like you sort ofyou know gold.
But um what what inspired youto to start this type of
business in a location?
I know you kind of hinted atit, but in a
location-independent sort ofway.
Mary Alice Duff (14:13):
Yeah, so the coaching practice or the my
fractional COO work or both?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (14:19):
Oh both, really, yeah.
Yeah, both.
Mary Alice Duff (14:21):
Yeah, so um I got a taste of remote work
during COVID and realized howmuch better it was for my brain.
I was able to think clearer, Iwasn't exhausted at the end of
the day, I just felt energized.
And um one night, and this waswhen I lived in the United
States, um, one night um myhusband and I were chatting and
we just were kind of joking.
(14:42):
If you could live anywhere inthe world, where would you live?
And we both said, the south ofFrance, ha ha ha.
And it was a joke.
Like it wasn't a thing.
And I was like, wait a minute,could we sell this?
And so, you know, you give me agood idea, I'm gonna go chase
it down.
And so I started Googling, andlo and behold, you can, if you
are a self-employed person, geta visa to come to France and
(15:03):
start a business.
So I knew that I was nevergonna find my clients like
physically in France.
Like, I'm not gonna go walkinto somebody's business in
France.
They they actually have kind ofan old school traditional
approach to employment, and sothe whole fractional thing
hasn't really landed hereamongst French people.
So I knew I needed to build alocation-independent business.
(15:24):
One, I knew I wanted to workremotely.
I was never going into anoffice ever again.
Um, and two, that it justwasn't a fit for the typical
French company.
But what I found was how manyEnglish speakers have businesses
in Europe that are remote,whether they're in France or the
UK or Spain or Portugal orwherever.
(15:44):
Um, and that's how I was ableto build.
I was posting on LinkedIn,posting on socials, meeting
people online, telling themabout how I work, what I offer,
and I got my first client thatway.
Uh, and then that snowballedinto another, into another.
Um, but honestly, uh building alocation independent business
was the best thing I ever did.
Um, there's no amount of moneyyou could pay me to get back
(16:07):
into an office.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (16:08):
I hear that a lot these days.
Mary Alice Duff (16:10):
There's none.
Like there's no number.
Um, and I'm dead serious.
Um, yeah, I just it's the bestthing for my brain, it's the
best thing for my health, it'sthe best thing for my family.
Um I can travel when I want, Ican work when I want.
Um, it's absolutely the bestchoice for me.
Uh, and it works for my clientstoo.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (16:29):
Right, I love hearing this.
And uh no, it's because like Isaid, uh I've kind of slowed
down on doing the interview, soit's kind of uh gives me gives
me energy hearing all of this.
Um so another question I wantedto ask is um you talk about um
your skills, um, e-commerce, umuh helping people with on the
(16:50):
coaching side, the operationalside, and the coach, you know,
some people along the way, youuh if you're thinking about
doing something like this,you're gonna have to do some
sort of like self self-audit,you know, in terms of what what
you're good at, you know, notjust the soft but the hard
skills.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (17:08):
You know, how did you go about that?
Is that something that well,I'm assuming that's something
that you did, but it's it wassomebody did somebody say to
you, Mary Allice, you know what,you should do this, or did you
did you think let me do it?
Mary Alice Duff (17:21):
So the last job I had before I became um an
entrepreneur was I was a chiefof staff.
And so a chief of staff is asuper cool job.
It's the right hand of a CEO ina company, um, and they get to
touch every part of thebusiness.
And it's really great forpeople whose brains get bored,
who are very curious, who liketo draw connections between
(17:44):
things, um, who are goodcommunicators, it can be very
convincing.
Um, and they just crack on,they just get shit done.
That's just like that's atypical chief of staff, right?
Um, and I realized how much Iliked connecting the dots,
building, and not doing the samething every day.
Um, and that's how I learnedeverything about operations,
finance, fundraising, marketing,because I was in this position
(18:06):
that forced me to work witheverybody.
I wasn't, I didn't get to belike just hide in my silo,
right?
I had to work with everybody,the HR department, the fine, the
CFO, whomever.
Um, so then when I went out andstarted my own company, um, you
know, being the chief of staffat a nonprofit is wildly
different than going out andstarting your own clothing
business, right?
(18:26):
Um, but the beauty of startingsomething is you don't know what
you don't know.
So you go in thinking, allright, you know, I've got these
skills, I've got that, and thenyou actually start doing it and
you're like, shit, I don't knowanything.
Uh so I joke that everything Ilearned about small business
finance, I learned by spendingand losing my own money.
Like every mistake I made, Ilearned the hard way, you know?
(18:49):
And so when I have my clientsand I'm looking at their
financials, I'm like, I'mtelling you you need to raise
this price, not because like wejust want to put more money in
our pockets, because I want yourbusiness to survive because
mine's in it, because I wouldn'traise my prices, right?
Like I'm trying to save youfrom yourself.
Let me help you.
Um but yeah, I don't know ifthere's so much of self-audit.
(19:10):
There's to get on with the workand you have to do things, and
as you're doing them, yourealize I'm really great at
this, or I'm really struggling.
Let me call in some help.
Let me find somebody toconsult, uh, somebody who can
train me.
Can I t teach myself thisskill, whatever it is?
But so much of businessdevelopment and entrepreneurship
is it's like this constantself-development loop, this
(19:34):
constant personal developmentloop of trying, failing,
learning, trying, failing,learning over and over and over
again.
Um yeah, it doesn't mean you'reever gonna be good at anything
at everything, but you you doget to figure out, okay, where
are my strengths, where should Ibe spending my time versus
where do I need support, youknow?
Alex Wilson-Campbell (19:53):
Yes, uh uh, definitely.
And um I think to do the kindof work that you're doing, um
You have to have thatentrepreneurial mindset, don't
you?
Um people say it it sounds abit cliche like you shouldn't
have a fear of failure, but Ithink that that that's something
that I guess a lot of peoplewill will have in the back end
(20:16):
of the mind that nobody wants tofail, do they?
They want they want people theywant to be successful.
Um that was actually leading mesomewhere, but I can't remember
what what line I was goingdown.
But in terms of how did yousort of like then stack stack
things up?
From chief of you've gone fromchief of staff, and now you've
got you've got this uh this umstack of skills that you've that
(20:39):
you've built up.
Um how do you go from that tothen business knowing that
people need need you and thenonto targeting those people and
finding those clients?
Mary Alice Duff (20:56):
So honestly, I I have found LinkedIn to be the
most incredible resource uh forme and my small business.
So I don't use any other socialplatforms anymore.
Like I gave them all up maybefive years ago, four years ago.
Uh was it three years ago?
It's it's been liberating, tobe quite honest.
Um, and so I'm consistentlyposting useful content on
(21:17):
LinkedIn, uh, you know, having areally tight LinkedIn profile
that showcases what I do, who Iwork with, and all my past
clients.
Um I talk about how I can helpother businesses, but more than
anything, I'm just a human thatpeople want to get to know.
And I take their coffee chats,like I answer my DMs, I give my
time when I'm not getting paidfor it.
(21:38):
Like I genuinely believe, likejust keep talking to people.
Um, and then I send reallygreat cold emails, if I'm being
honest.
Um, I have multiple clients whohave I booked who don't use
LinkedIn because I sent a greatcold email with a great subject
line.
Um, and so that's kind of how Istart talking to clients.
So I I I genuinely say, I thinkyour business is awesome.
(22:01):
Here's how I can help.
I help such and such client dothis thing, very similar space.
Would you be up for a chat tosee how I can lend a hand?
And people genuinely like sayyeah.
And we have a conversation andI see if I can offer them my
service.
Sometimes it's not a good fit.
Sometimes I'm like, hey, youcan't afford me right now, but
(22:22):
here's the five things I woulddo in your business tomorrow.
I'd set up your, you know, youremail capture and improve your
email marketing so that you'reactually building and nurturing
your relationship, right?
I'll offer them free advice orwhatever.
And then six months later, theymight come back to me and say,
hey, business is doing great.
We could actually afford younow and we could use your help.
Um, so that's been invaluablefor me.
Just relationships, talking topeople online, connecting.
(22:43):
LinkedIn is how I do that,LinkedIn and email.
Um, yeah, and I'm just alwaysopen to a chat, genuinely.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (22:51):
I think some people struggle with the
idea that um, you know, you canuse LinkedIn for that.
So from crossing the theboundary or the bridge of sort
of sending a message to thentranslating that message into a
conversation, that conversationinto uh you know uh into um sort
(23:11):
of what you're doing in termsof business.
Do you have a sort of like uh asystem that you use to do that?
Or is it is it is it just likeyou said, it's human connection.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
It's human connection.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (23:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Another question on top of thatis obviously the like you said,
LinkedIn is a great I you know,I spend most of my time on
LinkedIn.
There are so many businesses,so many people.
You mentioned your sort of likeum avatar, as it were, in terms
of type of business that you'vethat you sort of um um
approach, but how do you knowthat they need your help?
(23:46):
For example.
Mary Alice Duff (23:47):
So that's the tricky thing.
So this is the tricky thingabout operation.
So if you are a fractionalchief marketing officer, for
example, you can go on theirwebsite, you can go on their
social, you can sign up fortheir email marketing, and
within an hour, you're like,this email sucks, your social
sucks, your website isn'toptimized, and you can genuinely
offer suggestions.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Right.
Mary Alice Duff (24:07):
When you're doing the work I'm doing, it's
the kind of work that foundersdon't talk about.
They're embarrassed that theirproducts aren't profitable,
they're embarrassed that theirteam members aren't being paid
properly or don't have jobdescriptions, or they, God
forbid, but I hear this all thetime, aren't really sure what
their team is doing all day.
I'm like, you're and it's notthat the team is jerking them
(24:28):
around.
It's almost never that.
It's just genuinely shittycommunication, you know?
Um, it's all the stuff they'reembarrassed to admit is not
working in their business, butalso it's so normal.
It's so normal.
I have yet to meet a smallbusiness owner who has it all
together.
It's always a mess.
My business was a mess.
(24:50):
It's always a mess, right?
And so that becomes the trickybit is that I don't know what
help they need.
And that's why I don't havelike a lot of uh consultants or
fractional people have an offer.
It's like a fixed offer.
I do X, Y, and Z.
Because the work I do is socustomized, because every
business is gonna have differentissues.
I don't have a fixed offer.
(25:12):
I just want to get people onthe phone or on a uh a Zoom or a
Google Meet that I can talk tothem and learn about their
business.
Um my best clients are the oneswho just spill their guts in
that first call.
You know, and I I was just on acall the other day.
She pulled up her QuickBooksand she was like, look at this,
showing me her accounting.
And I was like, All right, wegot work to do.
But like, that's the kind offounder I love who is just so
(25:35):
self-aware that they don't knowwhat they don't know and they've
reached a point where they needhelp.
Um, but the only way I knowthat is if I have real
conversations because foundersaren't just going to fork over
that information.
It's embarrassing, it'svulnerable.
So they need to feel like theycan trust me.
And that is what my onlinepersona, if you will, I think it
(25:57):
engenders trust because I'mvulnerable, I tell it like it
is, I'm very direct.
So people feel that they can bethat way with me.
I hope.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (26:05):
Yeah, and I I can just see why, you know,
the charisma that you have aswell is like once some somebody
sort of gets talking to you, I'msure that sort of that that
messaging that you have, thatthat sort of natural net about
yourself um comes across in notjust in your sort of written
messages, but then in yourmeetings, you know.
Um not just that, but you Ijust feel that you have like um
(26:29):
a real sort of this is this iswho you are.
It's like this is you, this iswhere you want to be, sort of
thing.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (26:36):
And that you've actually worked out what
a lot of people are trying to dois you know, where where's
where do I fit?
You know, you know.
But I mean, I'm sure you've hadyou mentioned some challenges
that you mentioned the early on,and you mentioned the the money
side of things.
Um what uh were there anyparticular challenges that stand
out for you when you're sort ofin the early phases of setting
(26:58):
up?
Mary Alice Duff (26:59):
Yeah, so in the early stages of my fractional
practice, uh I just wasn'tcharging enough.
Um, I wasn't owning theengagement, I was treating those
engagements as if it was somesort of pseudo-employee-employer
relationship.
And instead of me being thesubject matter expert, coming in
(27:24):
and providing a service toanother business, right?
Um, and so oftentimes it justset up like a weird power
dynamic.
I wasn't charging enough.
Um, and then I would give up onmy pipeline.
So when I would be booked andbusy, right, I would not be
nurturing my pipeline.
And so what that does is itprevents you from being able to
(27:45):
walk away from a bad engagementbecause you don't have a
potential client on the backburner.
And I see this constantly withso like self-employed people,
freelancers, fractionals, whathave you, is they accept too low
pay, bad relationships, poortreatment because they have
stopped nurturing theirbusiness.
(28:07):
They don't have a pipeline,they stopped posting on
LinkedIn.
Oh, I got really busy.
Sure, but now you're stuckbecause you can't walk away,
because you don't have a plan B.
Um, and I that was my biggesttrap.
And I went six months without aclient when I finally decided
to walk away from a clientengagement.
I went six months.
Thankfully, I had saved upenough money because I knew I
(28:30):
was leaving, but my biggestregret was I took my foot off
the gas in terms of pipelinedevelopment and nurturing my
people.
So now I'm booked and busy, butI am still posting on LinkedIn
three, four times a week.
I'm still in DMs, I still takecoffee chats, I still talk to
people because you never know.
You never know when a clientrelationship just isn't working
(28:50):
out anymore, or the businesscould decide to sell, or any
number of things can happen.
But as a self-employed person,you need to be prepared.
And the first thing that youshould always be working on is
your own business, not yourclient work, your own work, your
business.
Um, so that way you protectyourself and you can stay in the
game for the long haul.
Um, so biggest mistake, lessonlearned, never again.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (29:14):
Yeah, I I've I've experienced that
myself where I was probably onthe other side, I was a bit more
I was a bit too reliant on aparticular client and perhaps
took my my foot off the gas interms of the the pipeline, and
then I got stung myself becausethat client then started to
freeze their hiring and slow itdown, and then all of a sudden
(29:37):
wasn't as much money coming in,and then the panic set in a
little.
Mary Alice Duff (29:40):
Yeah, it happens all the time.
It happens all the time, allthe time, constantly, you know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (29:46):
And when I look at look at your LinkedIn
profile, because obviously thethe the the S word that
everybody sort of uh doesn'tlike when it comes to business
sales.
Um I think sales, businessdevelopment, that's that's an
integral integral part ofsetting up any business.
Um and when I look at yourprofile, I don't really see
(30:11):
obvious signs that you uh havedone like marketing, obviously,
and you're obviously a people'sperson, as much as you say, in
fact, I'm an introvert myself,but you have a very sort of like
um you're very much a people'sperson and somebody who can can
connect with people very easily,I feel.
Um what where does the sort ofthe because you're talking about
(30:35):
pipelines as well, and that's asales sort of keyword.
Where did you learn all that?
Where did all that come from?
Mary Alice Duff (30:41):
Uh I again I think this is one of those
instances of you don't know whatyou don't know.
And I didn't learn about salesor pipeline development when I
had my e-commerce businessbecause there are no sales.
It's marketing, it's a funnel,right?
You have your top of funnel,middle funnel, bottom funnel,
email marketing social.
Like I learned that shit insideand out.
So when I started my fractionalpractice, I was at a total
(31:03):
deficit.
I knew nothing about sales,nothing about pipeline
development.
And it really was just like ajourney of teaching myself
everything I could possiblylearn.
You know, and I tried all ofthe different tools, the CRMs
and you know, some LinkedIn guy,you know, telling me buy this
course.
Like I tried.
None of it worked for me.
You know what works for me?
(31:23):
A freaking Google Sheet.
I have a Google sheet of allthese super cool companies that
I would just absolutely love towork with.
I have their email address, Irate them on a scale of cold,
warm, or hot.
I reach out to them onLinkedIn, connect with them,
send them an email.
That's my CRM.
It's you're not very sexy.
I don't care, it works.
Um, and that I learnedeverything about pipeline
(31:43):
development and sales because Iwas so shit at it.
And I realized like, I need tofigure out because like what
we're doing right now, I'm goodat.
I'm good at talking to people.
Yeah, that isn't the issue.
Having the sales call, closingthe deal was never the issue
because I come to a salesmeeting and I put sales in air
quotes because I don't eventhink of it as sales.
(32:04):
How can I help?
How can I help this person?
Right?
I'll help them right there inthe call, right?
But getting to that point feltso mysterious to me.
So I just taught myselfeverything I possibly could
about building a pipeline,getting people on the phone.
Um, and also had a really greatclient who um, one of the
(32:25):
co-founders is like a salesgenius, and I would just ask him
a million questions.
So the really cool thing aboutmy work is that I'm constantly
learning from people smarterthan me, like my own clients who
have gotten really good at aspecific thing.
So I've just basically beenpicking his brain about like
sales-related stuff, and thenI'd apply them to my own little
itty-bitty professionalpractice.
(32:45):
Um, but yeah, I've gottenpretty good at it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (32:48):
Sounds that way.
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff (32:51):
All way through trial and error.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (32:54):
You're right though.
I mean, sales is is is aboutlike a a natural way of finding
a natural way of connecting.
I think it's changed quite alot.
The yeah, sales before used to,I think, used to be a bit more
about the hard sell and sort oflike hitting the phones and um
you know going through, youknow, um making 150 cold calls
(33:16):
each day.
Um whereas yeah, I you youremind me of somebody else,
actually.
Somebody my one of my formerbosses actually, he um business
owner, he has a very similarsort of principle to you in the
sense that it's about uhconnecting with people based on
you know values, but you know,based on having an interest.
You mentioned working withexperiential businesses.
(33:38):
That must be something that'scome from uh you know your your
your you know uh passion for oneyou know wanting to work for
those sorts of businesses.
So yeah, I I definitely likethat sort of um that that that
principle.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (33:52):
Um one thing you were talking about,
okay.
So there's it sounds likeyou're you I don't know if I'm
correct in saying this, but uhyou you not systematic from a
robotic point of view, but I getthe feeling that you're very um
sort of like organized in inwhat you do, um in the in the
business sense.
I mean like sort of you you yousort your pipeline out, you do
(34:15):
yeah, I'm not saying necessarilyin a methodical way, but you
know what you have to do inorder to sort of get from point
A to point Z.
Um and how do you then stay,how do you keep productive?
Because there's so many for me,as especially as a parent, I've
got three children, um workfrom home, you know, work from
(34:35):
different, not just from home,but from different places, and
there are a lot of distractionsas well to that.
And there's you know, how doyou stay productive in your day?
Mary Alice Duff (34:46):
Um, you know, I've never, I will say I'm quite
a disciplined person.
Um, I am extremelygoal-oriented.
If I want something, if it's afinancial target or a personal
goal, like I am just that kindof person who's just gonna go
for it.
Um, I'm annoying in that way,like 6 a.m.
(35:07):
I'm up, I'm working out, likeI'm taking kicking ass and
taking names.
I am just a bit wired likethat.
Um but I will say one thingthat's been really helpful is
taking that first part of myday, like when I do sit down to
do work and focusing exclusivelyon my business.
So I don't start my client workuntil about like 10, 10, 15,
(35:28):
but I start my work day around8, 8, 15.
Um and so that ensures that mybusiness is getting the
attention it deserves every day.
It's never like being pushed tothe back burner.
Um, also, quite frankly, I am aforeigner.
I'm an immigrant living in acountry who could decide at any
time to say, no, thank you.
You can go now.
Um, and so the more successfulmy business is, the more likely
(35:52):
they are to allow me to stay,and the more likely I could
attain French citizenship, whichthen means I have freedom of
mobility all throughout theEuropean Union.
That's a hell of a motivator.
Yes, you are kicking me out.
Like I'm staying here.
Um then thirdly, thirdly, Ilove money.
I mean, I'm just gonna be outwith it.
Like I I have a family tosupport.
(36:14):
I don't come from wealth, Ihave I have no backup plan.
There's nobody back in theUnited States who could send me
a check if I was in a pinch.
It is just me.
Um, you know, I'm married, I'vegot an 11-year-old daughter,
um, and I just am absolutelyhellbent on helping her build
generational wealth so she hasaccess to the opportunities that
(36:35):
I just didn't have.
Um, so yeah, I guess thosethose three things keep me
pretty uh on it, you know, Idon't feel like sending that
cold email today.
And I'm like, do I hate coldemails more than I love money?
Yeah.
I'm sending the cold email.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (36:53):
I hear you, I hear you.
So you were taught, you yougave us quite a little bit of a
sort of a hint in terms of youryour calendar.
So no, it's not your daily sortof uh schedule.
Um you so do you you'll getyou're working out at 6 a.m.?
Is that and then you're sort oflike you get into 8 a.m.
You get into sort of your youmentioned your business work,
(37:15):
and then how does that look?
How does that day look for you?
Mary Alice Duff (37:19):
So I'm up at 6, and then I take my daughter to
school.
Uh I ride her on my bike toschool.
I'm back at my desk by 8:15,I'm doing my own business work
from like 8.15 to 10.
And so that could be followingup with my coaching clients, it
could be business development,it could be writing LinkedIn
content, it could be working onmy newsletter, any of those
things, right?
Um, then on Mondays inparticular, I like to stack up
(37:41):
all my client meetings, myface-to-face time with all my my
principals.
So anybody I'm doing fractionalCOO work, I like to meet with
the founder every Monday so thatwe can plot out the week
together.
Here's the things I'm workingon, these are my priorities, do
they align with your priorities?
Here's how they tie to thebigger picture, et cetera.
And then I'm off to the racesfor the rest of the week, um,
prioritizing various clientprojects uh and just like
(38:04):
getting shit done, basically.
Um, but I really do try tobreak up my day so that that
first part of the day is on mybusiness, second part of the day
is on the client.
I like to take a uh, you know,a decent lunch, go for a walk,
walk my dog, um, and then I wrapup.
But I have been finding thatI'm trying to lean more into
like my natural energy andrhythms.
(38:25):
And if I'm feeling particularlyinspired to write something on
a Sunday afternoon, like I doit, you know.
Um, you know, I don't havethree kids, just the one.
And I am finding like, youknow, I have more time now to
kind of dedicate to just likewriting and being creative.
And so really trying to enjoythat.
But my days are prettystructured.
(38:45):
Uh, but then again, if like I'mfeeling like shit and I just
don't want to work that day,I'll close the laptop and go for
a walk, go run errands, go findsomething to do.
Um, because my work isasynchronous for the most part.
People don't need immediateanswers from me.
I'm not working on things thatare like urgent, they're more
long-term and strategic.
Um, I do have a virtualassistant who I can delegate
(39:08):
tasks to.
Um, and then with the clients Iwork with, I also have team
members I can delegate thingsto.
So um, yeah, I mean it's prettystructured, but I also have a
lot of flexibility.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (39:19):
That's pretty good.
Right.
Yeah.
And that uh that acronym AI issort of floating around a lot in
different spheres of work.
Yeah.
Um is AI something or any sortof form of forms of automation?
Are you using any of that tosort of put you in an advantage
in terms that you uhasynchronous works brilliantly,
(39:41):
you know, anything else?
Mary Alice Duff (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely am a chat GPT power
user for sure.
Um, so like a lot of the thingsthat I'll be doing um when I'm
like developing the best processfor doing something.
So I go through the process acouple of times and then I make
a voice note, I dump it intoChatGPT and into A template that
I've created, and now we have astandard operating procedure
for that thing that I can thenshare with the team.
(40:06):
Um, you know, whether it'screating a content calendar or
I'll have a team meeting with abunch of people, and then we
need to get what we talked aboutinto an Asana project.
So I'll dump the transcriptinto Chat GPT and I'll tell it,
make it into an Asana projectwith all of my headers, who's
doing what, suggested deadlines,and then we're just dropping
that into Asana.
So I definitely am usingChatGPT in my day-to-day work,
(40:28):
and I'm starting to experimentwith um some new tools like AI
agents.
So instead of just a singleprompt, it's uh actual like
AI-powered agents doing oneprompt from the next to the
next.
So create a creative brief forthis blog post.
Great.
Write the blog post, humanreviews it, great.
Post the blog post to thewebsite, great.
(40:50):
Go on to Canva and create a pinfor the blog post.
Okay.
Go on to Pinterest and pin thepin linking back to the website.
Do that 100 times.
So that's what we'reexperimenting with right now.
Um, the reality is like Iwouldn't be able to manage the
client load that I have plus mycoaching program as a one-person
business if I didn't have AItools.
(41:11):
It would it would just beimpossible.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (41:15):
Yeah, I I did think that.
It's like a lot.
Some people only some peoplejust have a coaching business,
and that's that sort of like soyeah, I have to take my hat off
to you for that.
But um so uh I know you youyou've got the coaching side of
your business, but but um foranybody listening, um what what
(41:35):
advice would you give to youknow anybody who was looking to
start their own locationindependent freelance business
or fra you know to become afractional like yourself?
Mary Alice Duff (41:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So one of the little hacks thatum I've shared with people
online, just to kind of get youthinking more like an
entrepreneur and less like anemployee.
So to take your resume and beefit up with everything you've
ever done.
Don't worry, you know, ifthings are related, put all of
your skills, all of youraccomplishments, things that
you've really loved, projectsyou've led, put it into Chat GPT
(42:10):
and ask it the following.
Um, if I were self-employed, ifI was going to start a business
of one, suggest some serviceofferings I could offer with my
skills and interests and myaccomplishments using that
information.
And then who would I sell thoseservices to?
And that will give you a chancefor you to kind of zoom out and
say, okay, I've been doing HRwork.
(42:31):
Oh, look, there's all thiscommon denominator between all
of these companies.
They all, you know, are in thefood industry.
Okay, that's interesting.
I could sell myself as an, youknow, a fractional HR person for
small businesses in the foodspace, something to that effect.
But what this activity does isit gets you to start thinking as
someone independent from acompany, someone independent
(42:54):
from relying on a paycheck froma single employer, and gets you
to start thinking of how can youtake your skills, your
services, your experiences, yourpreferences, and craft them in
a way that works for you, right?
That aligns with your life andalso is sellable and who it
could be sellable to.
Um and it's just a good way tokind of get thinking about how
(43:16):
you could be self-employed.
Um, I've done it and it alwayscomes back, you know, you should
be a fractional COL.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (43:24):
I've never thought of actually doing doing
it in that way, but yeah, it'sit's it's definitely good advice
and it's working for you.
And um but what I want to knownow as we begin to wrap up,
yeah, what Mary are your goals?
What what what's what's thefuture look like for you and
your business?
Um and also where can peoplefind you online?
Mary Alice Duff (43:47):
Yeah.
So what's the future look like?
You know, um, so one of thethings um that I'm working on
right now is thinking throughhow to scale what I do without
having to work more or hire abunch of people.
Um, I've definitely gone downthat road before.
I had a company, I had a bunchof employees.
It was exceptionally stressfulworrying about payroll every two
(44:10):
weeks.
Um, and so one of the thingsI'm working on right now is
productizing my intellectualproperty.
So there's a very specific wayI work with people.
Um, it's extremelyhuman-centered.
I try, uh I do have a socialwork background, so I'm always
trying to come uh at people tounderstand like where they are,
where they come from, whatmotivates them, what makes them
(44:31):
tick.
And I think because I do that,it helps me work with people in
a way uh that's successfulbecause I'm actually meeting
them where they are, right?
So I'm thinking through how toproductize my IP and what that
might look like.
So whether that's courses or abook or workshops or whatever,
um, that's definitely somethingI'm thinking through.
(44:51):
Um, but you know, the futurefor me is continuing delivering
for my clients, uh, expanding mycoaching program, um, and
enjoying my life.
I like my life.
So, you know, improving myFrench, traveling, you know,
having a good time.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (45:08):
Sounds good.
Sounds good.
And where can anybody who'sinterested in either finding out
more about your um COO practiceor your coach practice, where's
the best place to look?
I think I'm I'm I think I knowwhat you might say, but yeah,
you tell me.
Mary Alice Duff (45:22):
Definitely LinkedIn.
That's the only place I hangout.
LinkedIn and I have anewsletter.
Um, but yeah, LinkedIn isdefinitely the first port of
call.
Alex Wilson-Campbell (45:30):
Excellent.
Thank you.
It's been enlightening, it'sbeen entertaining, it's been,
you know, um energizing.
So thank you for joining metoday.
Mary Alice Duff (45:38):
Thanks for having me, Alex.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.