August 5, 2025 • 21 mins
Matt talks about the many years when he lived out of a backpack he could grab at a moment's notice to bolt out the back if a bounty hunter busted through the front. Toni also begins to share how she reconnected with Matt's family and became his pen pal in prison. This is a great episode, and we'd love to hear what you think! If you like our podcast please share it with your friends, and if you have any thoughts or comments, we'd love to hear them at phil@safehouse-ministries.com!
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Episode Transcript
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Phil Shuler (00:00):
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
(00:03):
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
(00:24):
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
(00:45):
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
(01:07):
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Before we dive into thecontinuation of Matt and Tony's
story, which is gonna be reallygood this week, by the way, I
want to just take a minute andcelebrate some of the great
blessings and great success Godhas given Safe House Ministries
over the past 18 months.
(01:29):
Over the past 18 months, safeHouse Ministries has been able
to help 296 people go from beinghomeless to being in their own
homes, and that is just anamazing accomplishment and
something that is worthcelebrating for any of you out
there that are partners with usin this work.
(01:51):
That is fruit that is going tobe abounding to your account,
and there's no way that we cando the work that we do without
the partnership and the help ofso many others here in Columbus.
So many individuals, so manychurches, so many organizations
who just step up and reallypartner with us to help so many.
(02:13):
Of our neighbors and friendshere in Columbus and in the
surrounding area that are ingreat need.
So thank you to those of youthat do partner with us already,
and I want to encourage andinvite any of you that are
listening to this podcast if youdon't already, if.
Some financial contributions tohelp with the work of Safe
House, or if you don't alreadygive some of your time to come
(02:36):
and just volunteer to be with usin the work that we do to help
people go from being homeless tobeing housed in their own homes,
to help people go from beingaddicted on drugs and alcohol
and in bondage to being free.
Then please.
Consider this just a personalinvitation to join with us, to
partner with us.
(02:57):
You will be so glad that youdid, and all of the continued
successes and the wonderfulstories of redemption that you
hear on this podcast and so manymore that we just aren't even
able to get onto the podcastbecause there's so many, you'll
be a part of that.
So thank you.
God bless you.
And now we're gonna dive intopart three of Matt and Tony's
(03:20):
story.
Matt (03:21):
In state prison, everything's just run off of
gangs and being dumb.
Wow.
Truthfully federal prison whereI was at was a lot better.
I was uh, I never been to stateprison.
I've heard a lot about it from alot of people that I know have
been through prison.
I got a one of my best friendsright now is in prison and like,
it is bad where he was at.
(03:41):
He just got moved.
But in federal prison, it's whatyou make it wicked like I, like
I said, I did two parentingprograms.
I did the parenting programs.
I started my HVACapprenticeship.
I did a nine month long drugprogram while I was there to get
to stay clean.
Uh, yeah, well not really stayclean, but to learn how to use
(04:01):
coping skills for differentthings in life.
Phil (04:04):
So if you got into a situation where there's an
emotional distress, you didn'tturn to drugs.
Matt (04:09):
And a lot of my stuff was when I was using drugs is to
just be numb to the wholesituation.
Yeah.
And pretty much avoid reality.
Yeah.
But it didn't avoid it justpushed it off and made it worse,
you know?
And, um,
Toni (04:21):
and the drugs were available to him in prison.
Yeah.
You know, so he could've, my, my
Matt (04:25):
first day in prison, a dude walked up to me with a big
pill bottle full of ice, whichis meth.
Another form of meth In pillform?
No.
It was a pill bottle.
He just had a pill bottle.
Kept it in.
I gotcha.
And, uh, he walked up and he waslike, yeah, get on your feet.
I said, I don't want that.
He said, you ain't gotta do it,just sell it.
Get on your feet.
I said, how about you sell it?
Gimme half the money.
(04:45):
You know,
Toni (04:46):
like he could have backpedaled, at any point in
time and fell right back intothat hole.
And he was very determined.
Matt (04:53):
I just, I didn't wanna be the same POS that I was when I
went to prison.
Phil (04:58):
You wanted to make a better life,
Matt (04:59):
right?
I wanted to be better and dobetter.
Yeah.
And um, one thing that I startedtelling myself every day when I
was in prison, his failure isnot an option.
Phil (05:08):
Where did that mental fortitude come from for you?
Was it there all your life?
You just tapped into it or like,did someone help you to define
that or just God
Matt (05:17):
it was me?
Phil (05:18):
Yeah.
Matt (05:18):
Or like, it had to have been God bro, because
truthfully, if it was me, Iwould've been on the same dumb
stuff throughout life.
But I think seeing the hurt onmy mom the week before I got
locked up that I taught with herand stuff, and they done kicked
her door into looking for me andstuff, and it wasn't
Toni (05:34):
just affecting him anymore.
He realized that now
Phil (05:37):
you saw how it was hurting your mom and others, it was
affecting
Toni (05:39):
everybody else around you.
And I just
Matt (05:40):
got tired, man.
For real.
Being in the street life solong, doing so much drugs and
doing this and doing that,running from the police, not
having nowhere stable to live,it just, it gets hard, it's
stressful.
Toni (05:53):
It's mentally exhausting.
It really is.
Because Matthew will tell you,like, before we started our
relationship, Matthew lived outof a book bag.
He was never Wow.
Someplace long enough years.
I lived out
Matt (06:05):
of a book bag, man.
I never stayed.
That's how you run
Phil (06:07):
fast, huh?
Right.
You grabbed a bag and run.
Exactly.
I
Matt (06:09):
never stayed nowhere over two weeks.
like one of my brothers, him andhis the girl he was with at the
time, they told me like, man,you can stay here.
Never stayed longer than twoweeks.
I'll wake up the next morning,I'll be gone.
none (06:20):
Wow.
Matt (06:21):
Anywhere I stayed, I never stayed more than two weeks,
lived out of a bull bag and Inever unpacked.
none (06:26):
Wow.
Matt (06:26):
And when I came home, he's not
Toni (06:28):
allowed to own a book bag now at all.
No book bags in your marriage?
No, none at all.
Matt (06:34):
Um, but I just got tired, man.
For real.
Um, so you
Phil (06:37):
stayed faithful, you said?
No to the opportunities to useto I did.
Matt (06:42):
Yeah.
And, uh, since I've been homefrom prison, I've been around
it.
Like my friend that's in prisonnow, he was real bad into
addiction, but it was my bestfriend.
Been my best friend for a longtime.
And, um, he knew that he was inaddiction that I was trying to
do.
Right.
And when I first came home fromprison, uh, we talked to him on
the phone, both of us.
(07:03):
And he told me, he was like,just stay away from me, bro.
I ain't no good.
Wow.
And uh, I told him, I said, Iain't gonna stay away.
I'm gonna help you.
And I've been trying to, itdidn't work.
You know, he got caught up, wentto prison, but.
I've been around it and folksare doing it right in front of
me.
It doesn't bother me.
Like I'm past that point in mylife that I'm just looking at
the people now that use drugsand not saying that I'm any
(07:27):
better than the next persons,but my situation is better now.
none (07:31):
Yeah.
Matt (07:32):
I'm just looking at the people that still use the drugs
and put their self and theirkids and their families through
that every day.
And I'm like, how do you keepliving in this rut?
You know, you, you say that youwant better, but you can't do
better if you're still living inthe same rut.
If you want better than, dobetter get off and go do it.
You know?
Toni (07:46):
And once you get to a certain point, it's very hard.
It becomes very hard to haveempathy, because you know what
you went through and what youdid to get clean and you know
the things that you survived.
So sometimes it's hard to hear,I can't do it, I can't do this.
And it's like
Matt (08:04):
I see people out here talking about, oh, I relapsed
and I did this and I did that.
Okay.
Was it your first time aroundit?
Was it your first time?
Relapsing?
That's understandable becauseyou just put yourself in a
situation where you didn't knowhow your body, your mind, and
this stuff was gonna react.
That's a relapse.
10, 11, 12, 13 times.
That's not relapse, that'schoice.
And you choose to do that.
So if, if you don't wannarelapse for 13, 14 times, don't
(08:28):
put yourself in a situation.
You have to change where you'vegot a
Phil (08:31):
choice.
Learn from those mistakes andchoose better.
I
Matt (08:34):
mean, one or two times.
Yeah.
First time you relapse, take oftime you want.
See how strong you are.
If you relapse the second time,the third, fourth, fifth, and
all own up.
However many times you claim yourelapsed was a choice.
You chose to put yourself inthat type of situation.
And if the situation brought itup yourself upon you where you
wasn't expecting, you've got achoice to leave, not sit there.
(08:56):
So that's a choice that youmake.
I've been in situations, I'vechose to stay in a situation
where I've seen it and itdoesn't bother me because I'm
past that point in my life.
I want better and I wanna bebetter.
I wanna do better.
Toni (09:07):
He has too much to lose.
Now, before Matthew didn't, likehe had already lost everything
Matt (09:11):
since I've been home from prison.
Okay.
I got released from prison Aprilthe first of 2020.
I got released from prison andwent to a halfway house for six
months.
I got released from a halfwayhouse on October 9th, 2020.
since I've been home, I got mylicense back after 17 years.
So where'd you go from the
Phil (09:26):
halfway house?
Matt (09:27):
I went to my mom's.
Okay.
Toni (09:28):
Phoenix City.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um.
Matt (09:30):
When I got out of the halfway house, I was on You got
put on probation.
You had five years, had fiveyears at extensive supervised
probation, meaning I had to atleast talk to my probation
officer every week and see himtwice a month.
Toni (09:43):
And that was federal and state he was on.
Right.
I was on state probation aswell.
Matt (09:47):
Yeah.
And, uh, my state probationofficer pop up at the house
anytime.
My federal probation officer, hewill too.
He, he'd come to my job,everything.
Toni (09:54):
but his federal probation officer, John Meredith.
He was the first one to evertreat Matthew like he was a
human being.
A lot of the times, you know,they wear that badge, they wear
that vest and you're just acriminal to them.
Yeah.
You know,
Matt (10:08):
he didn't treat me like that.
He treated me like I was a humanbeing and I respected him for
that.
Toni (10:12):
And he made life so easy for us.
We were so blessed to
Phil (10:15):
get So when did, when did Tony come into the picture?
Matt (10:18):
Uh, I was in prison when me and her got back together.
Phil (10:22):
Really Like y'all letters or phone calls or like,
Matt (10:25):
she had came to town and, uh, she seen my brother and one
of the stores in.
Uh, she was like, I wanna see,uh, your sister.
And they, so she went over totheir house.
So you guys
Phil (10:35):
were as kids, you were friends, like you knew each
other?
I
Toni (10:38):
knew.
I met Matthew when he was 14.
I was years old.
Phil (10:41):
Okay.
Toni (10:42):
14.
And I was 18.
Yeah.
none (10:44):
Oh,
Toni (10:45):
yeah.
But I was best friends with hissister.
Okay.
At the time, and, um, I alwaysthought Matthew was so adorable,
but he was so much younger thanme at the time, you know, so it
was just like, we were all cool.
We were all friends.
We, we hung out at the skatingcenter like it was a long time
ago, really long time ago.
But, um, yeah, it was 2019.
(11:08):
I was living in Florida.
I was at the tail end of a veryunhealthy and toxic 23 year
relationship.
I had two kids of my own whowere the same age as his kids
by, fate may have it.
And, um, we had come up here toColumbus for a weekend visit and
I ran into his brother and I waslike, Hey, I wanna see your
sister.
(11:29):
I haven't seen her in a while.
So we wound up going to wherethey were living at the time,
and, um.
I went and I saw his brother,his sister.
It was the first time I had seenhis mom in over 20 years, you
know.
Wow.
And when I went to visit,Jessica was like, Hey, Matt's on
the phone.
He wants to talk to you.
Really?
Yeah.
(11:49):
So I was talking to him andstuff.
Now mind you, I hadn't seen himor nothing in about 20 years.
'cause I left and moved toFlorida and
Phil (11:58):
for this other relationship with this other
guy.
Yeah.
Toni (12:00):
Yeah.
So I'm talking to him and I'mlike, Hey, come zig me.
I wanna see you.
And he was like, girl, I'mFederal Correctional Institute.
And I was like, okay, well I'llwrite you as soon as I get home.
Wow.
And he was like, okay.
So I got home on a Sunday and Iwent to work Monday.
(12:21):
And while I was at work, I goton the the prison board website,
federal Prison Board, FBOP.
And I looked up Matthew Hand andthere were two individuals that
popped up same age andeverything what that were in
federal prison.
So I had to call his sister andI was like, Hey, what's your
brother's middle name?
So I know which one I'm writingto.
Phil (12:43):
Don't you say loud.
I won't say
Toni (12:45):
out loud, but Yeah.
You don't like your
Phil (12:46):
middle name.
I do.
I love his middle name.
It's a secret.
It ain't for everybody.
Toni (12:52):
But, um, yeah, I wrote him like, as soon as I got home and
we just phone calls, emails, youknow, and then what amazed me,
Matt (13:02):
Federal prison.
I hadn't seen my kids in 12years.
She brought my youngest boy ofthe two to see me for the first
time in 12 years.
So you, you were connected to
Toni (13:11):
His mother's mother made the visit happen.
Matt (13:14):
My boys wanted to reach out to me and find me.
And so their mom reached out to,my mom, found out I was in
prison and stuff.
But for everything to happen,like it did, she brought my mom
and she brought my, my youngestboy to see me for the first time
in 12 years.
Phil (13:30):
How old was he at that point
Matt (13:31):
of 15?
14.
14.
Phil (13:34):
So Jessica and your 14-year-old son, what was what's
No,
Toni (13:38):
Jessica's his sister.
Phil (13:39):
Jessica's your sister, okay.
Right.
So Jessica's the one that thatreaped, that connected to, yeah.
Toni (13:45):
Yeah.
It was because of my friendshipwith her that we wound up
reconnecting.
You know, it was just like, it'sso weird because to look back at
it now, like everything justfell into place.
It was like one thing afteranother just kept happening.
And But, um, I was like, yeah,like two months in I told him, I
was like, I love you.
And I was like, wait, not in aweird, crazy stalker way or
(14:07):
anything like that.
I was like, it was a weird,
Matt (14:09):
crazy way.
Toni (14:10):
I was like, I just, I love your vibe.
I love your spirit.
Like I could tell you're such agood person.
And it's just like, you know, Iwould sit there after we hung up
the phone and stuff, and it'sjust like, what are you doing?
You're like, Tony, what am Idoing?
Yeah.
Tony, what are you doing?
Like, he's in prison.
You're going from the fire tothe frying pan.
(14:32):
Like this is not gonna end wellfor you.
Phil (14:34):
So you, you realize you were in a place of just bad life
choices.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, this isjust the next pool.
Oh, very poor life
Toni (14:40):
choices.
Yeah.
And um, it was just like, youknow, well, we'll just see where
it goes.
Whatever.
No big deal.
Because Matthew's gonna comehome, Matthew's gonna get back
in the streets.
He's gonna, you know, wind upback on drugs.
And so he was
Phil (14:54):
convinced he was in a better life going, but you
weren't convinced that that'swhat was me.
Matt (14:58):
That's what's so amazing.
Everybody doubted me.
Toni (15:01):
It's not so much doubting him.
Okay.
But I've known it's the realitythat has been for the past two
decades.
I know plenty of people who havegone to jail, gone to prison,
and guys are really smoothtalkers.
Like, I know ladies listening tome can vouch for this.
When they're in jail and theyneed you, they can say all the
right things at all the righttime.
(15:21):
Wow.
And they, guys are just smoothtalkers and Matthew is very
charismatic.
Matthew know.
Why don't you use some bigwords?
Because I have a big vocabulary.
Yeah.
Matthew is very charming and,um,
Phil (15:34):
I think there's some folks listening that probably could.
Take heart and listen hard aboutthat.
Smooth talking.
Uh, yeah,
Toni (15:40):
be careful.
Yeah.
Like I was very guarded, youknow, like I had no intention of
Matt (15:46):
the only thing that I haven't done that I've promised
her or told her while I was inprison.
The only thing that I haven'tdone is a seafood.
I'm not doing it.
Yeah.
He won't even, I'm not.
So
Phil (15:56):
you kinda started pursuing her while you guys were having
phone calls and writing letters.
No,
Toni (16:01):
actually he, he said to me in one of his letters, he was
like, Hey, find me a pen pal.
You know, somebody that I canwrite to and stuff.
And I was like I'll findsomebody for your cellmate, but
I think I'm gonna keep you tomyself for a little while.
Told you it was that crazy.
Matt (16:16):
Yeah.
But like throughout the lettersand the emails and the visits,
phone calls and stuff we talkedabout different things that we
would do in life and stuff.
And she's like, do you likeseafood?
I'm like, yeah, I like shrimp.
You know, shrimp and crab.
And she's like, no, seafood.
And I was like, I'll tryanything once
Phil (16:33):
You bet you won't.
Toni (16:33):
That's a lie.
Yeah, man.
They eat
Matt (16:35):
crazy stuff.
Octopus and muscles and
Toni (16:38):
Yeah.
He won't try.
Yeah.
You see that?
Look,
Matt (16:40):
fish is seafood.
See,
Toni (16:41):
I grew up very differently than Matthew.
Like I grew up in New York.
Um, they
Matt (16:46):
grew up Catholic though, so they, on Christmas, Italian,
they do like the, Feast
Toni (16:51):
of the Seven Fishes for Christmas Eve and like I grew up
very
Matt (16:56):
cultured, waffle House.
I grew up very cultured,
Toni (17:00):
I mean anything.
We'll try anything at leastonce.
We are not scared at all.
Like, I
Matt (17:05):
did try, uh, calamari and it had a good flavor.
I'm a texture guy though, andit's real chewy.
Like I can't even chew gum.
It is chewy.
Yeah.
Yeah, bro.
I can't even chew gum.
Wow.
Because it's chewy.
You have to keep chewing andchewing it chewy.
And I'm just like, I don't haveenough tea for this man.
Phil (17:21):
Wow.
So this is a good moment to justgive us the, the short version,
Tony, of kind of you in thebeginning and coming up and
just, just a short version ofkind of your life to bring up to
the point where now you got, youconnect with Matt.
So,
Toni (17:35):
I grew up in New York.
I was born in California, grewup in New York.
Um, there are six of us total.
Okay.
Broken home.
My mom and dad split up when Iwas like four years old.
my brother died of a heroinoverdose when I was seven.
He was 21 years old.
Wow.
Was
Phil (17:51):
drugs prevalent just throughout your whole family?
Yeah.
Toni (17:53):
My mother was an addict.
my dad was somewhat of analcoholic.
Um, they had a very abusive,toxic relationship in the end.
Um, my mother also was in alesbian relationship when I was
growing up and in New York inthe late eighties, early
nineties, that was taboo.
It wasn't as prevalent as it isnow.
Nobody talked about it, I gotmade fun of a lot because of
(18:15):
that situation.
So when Tony was backed into itscorner, Tony came out swinging.
You know, I grew up fighting alot.
I was a fighter.
You know, and so I, I actuallyleft New York when I turned 16.
I moved to North Carolina tolive with my dad.
Phil (18:30):
'cause you were just fed up with what was going on.
Yeah,
Toni (18:32):
I just, me and my mom had a very unhealthy relationship.
Phil (18:36):
Were you using as No, no.
Toni (18:38):
I mean, smoking weed.
Military matters.
Yeah.
I didn't get introduced to otherdrugs until I had moved to
Columbus.
I was a little bit older.
I was in my early twenties.
Phil (18:49):
Was your dad in Columbus?
Um, is that Yeah,
Toni (18:51):
because my dad was a tattoo artist.
Phil (18:53):
Wow.
So, so he had left New York?
Yeah.
Toni (18:56):
My dad, well my dad left New York.
He lived in New Jersey.
He first, we lived in NorthCarolina.
Yeah.
Anywhere where there's a majormilitary base.
none (19:05):
Okay.
Toni (19:05):
That's where my dad's business was, because he's a
tattoo artist, so, yeah, thatmakes sense.
He wound up moving here.
He worked on Victory Drive withFalcon, who is a very well-known
tattoo artist.
Like they ran Columbus in thelate eighties, early nineties.
So we moved here because of thebusiness from Fort Benning.
A lot of rangers, you know, mydad had a lot of friends here.
(19:28):
And I, it was my early twentieswith my first ex-husband that
it, it's always because ofsomebody of the opposite sex,
you know?
It was like, okay, let's startdoing drugs.
Basically cocaine was at aparty, cocaine was at a party.
It's your own person.
You make your own choice.
Yeah, you're right.
But I'm saying it's always likesomeone involving the
Phil (19:49):
environments, right?
You put yourself in a situationwhere there's an opportunity,
right.
Or a temptation, and you're, andyou just, especially me.
Toni (19:57):
cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my
forehead.
So it was like the worst youwere, the more attracted to you.
I am.
And that is the end of partthree of Matt and Tony's story.
Tony will go deeper into herstory next week and she'll
really will talk.
(20:19):
Tony will go deeper into herstory next week and she will
share.
Many things that were rootissues and challenges in her
life, which helped to contributeto the fact that she just made
bad life decisions.
She'll talk about her self imageand, uh, so many other things,
and it's gonna be veryinsightful, and I think you're
(20:39):
gonna enjoy it.
We'll get to hear a little bitmore as Tony concludes her
story.
Next week you'll hear more abouthow Matt and Tony's relationship
just blossomed.
F beginning with that pen palrelationship and just going into
so much more.
You'll want to be back next weekand we look forward to being
(21:00):
with you again next week.
I hope you have a great rest ofyour day today and a great rest
of your week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (21:07):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(21:30):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (21:46):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
(00:03):
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
(00:24):
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
(00:45):
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
(01:07):
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Before we dive into thecontinuation of Matt and Tony's
story, which is gonna be reallygood this week, by the way, I
want to just take a minute andcelebrate some of the great
blessings and great success Godhas given Safe House Ministries
over the past 18 months.
(01:29):
Over the past 18 months, safeHouse Ministries has been able
to help 296 people go from beinghomeless to being in their own
homes, and that is just anamazing accomplishment and
something that is worthcelebrating for any of you out
there that are partners with usin this work.
(01:51):
That is fruit that is going tobe abounding to your account,
and there's no way that we cando the work that we do without
the partnership and the help ofso many others here in Columbus.
So many individuals, so manychurches, so many organizations
who just step up and reallypartner with us to help so many.
(02:13):
Of our neighbors and friendshere in Columbus and in the
surrounding area that are ingreat need.
So thank you to those of youthat do partner with us already,
and I want to encourage andinvite any of you that are
listening to this podcast if youdon't already, if.
Some financial contributions tohelp with the work of Safe
House, or if you don't alreadygive some of your time to come
(02:36):
and just volunteer to be with usin the work that we do to help
people go from being homeless tobeing housed in their own homes,
to help people go from beingaddicted on drugs and alcohol
and in bondage to being free.
Then please.
Consider this just a personalinvitation to join with us, to
partner with us.
(02:57):
You will be so glad that youdid, and all of the continued
successes and the wonderfulstories of redemption that you
hear on this podcast and so manymore that we just aren't even
able to get onto the podcastbecause there's so many, you'll
be a part of that.
So thank you.
God bless you.
And now we're gonna dive intopart three of Matt and Tony's
(03:20):
story.
Matt (03:21):
In state prison, everything's just run off of
gangs and being dumb.
Wow.
Truthfully federal prison whereI was at was a lot better.
I was uh, I never been to stateprison.
I've heard a lot about it from alot of people that I know have
been through prison.
I got a one of my best friendsright now is in prison and like,
it is bad where he was at.
(03:41):
He just got moved.
But in federal prison, it's whatyou make it wicked like I, like
I said, I did two parentingprograms.
I did the parenting programs.
I started my HVACapprenticeship.
I did a nine month long drugprogram while I was there to get
to stay clean.
Uh, yeah, well not really stayclean, but to learn how to use
(04:01):
coping skills for differentthings in life.
Phil (04:04):
So if you got into a situation where there's an
emotional distress, you didn'tturn to drugs.
Matt (04:09):
And a lot of my stuff was when I was using drugs is to
just be numb to the wholesituation.
Yeah.
And pretty much avoid reality.
Yeah.
But it didn't avoid it justpushed it off and made it worse,
you know?
And, um,
Toni (04:21):
and the drugs were available to him in prison.
Yeah.
You know, so he could've, my, my
Matt (04:25):
first day in prison, a dude walked up to me with a big
pill bottle full of ice, whichis meth.
Another form of meth In pillform?
No.
It was a pill bottle.
He just had a pill bottle.
Kept it in.
I gotcha.
And, uh, he walked up and he waslike, yeah, get on your feet.
I said, I don't want that.
He said, you ain't gotta do it,just sell it.
Get on your feet.
I said, how about you sell it?
Gimme half the money.
(04:45):
You know,
Toni (04:46):
like he could have backpedaled, at any point in
time and fell right back intothat hole.
And he was very determined.
Matt (04:53):
I just, I didn't wanna be the same POS that I was when I
went to prison.
Phil (04:58):
You wanted to make a better life,
Matt (04:59):
right?
I wanted to be better and dobetter.
Yeah.
And um, one thing that I startedtelling myself every day when I
was in prison, his failure isnot an option.
Phil (05:08):
Where did that mental fortitude come from for you?
Was it there all your life?
You just tapped into it or like,did someone help you to define
that or just God
Matt (05:17):
it was me?
Phil (05:18):
Yeah.
Matt (05:18):
Or like, it had to have been God bro, because
truthfully, if it was me, Iwould've been on the same dumb
stuff throughout life.
But I think seeing the hurt onmy mom the week before I got
locked up that I taught with herand stuff, and they done kicked
her door into looking for me andstuff, and it wasn't
Toni (05:34):
just affecting him anymore.
He realized that now
Phil (05:37):
you saw how it was hurting your mom and others, it was
affecting
Toni (05:39):
everybody else around you.
And I just
Matt (05:40):
got tired, man.
For real.
Being in the street life solong, doing so much drugs and
doing this and doing that,running from the police, not
having nowhere stable to live,it just, it gets hard, it's
stressful.
Toni (05:53):
It's mentally exhausting.
It really is.
Because Matthew will tell you,like, before we started our
relationship, Matthew lived outof a book bag.
He was never Wow.
Someplace long enough years.
I lived out
Matt (06:05):
of a book bag, man.
I never stayed.
That's how you run
Phil (06:07):
fast, huh?
Right.
You grabbed a bag and run.
Exactly.
I
Matt (06:09):
never stayed nowhere over two weeks.
like one of my brothers, him andhis the girl he was with at the
time, they told me like, man,you can stay here.
Never stayed longer than twoweeks.
I'll wake up the next morning,I'll be gone.
none (06:20):
Wow.
Matt (06:21):
Anywhere I stayed, I never stayed more than two weeks,
lived out of a bull bag and Inever unpacked.
none (06:26):
Wow.
Matt (06:26):
And when I came home, he's not
Toni (06:28):
allowed to own a book bag now at all.
No book bags in your marriage?
No, none at all.
Matt (06:34):
Um, but I just got tired, man.
For real.
Um, so you
Phil (06:37):
stayed faithful, you said?
No to the opportunities to useto I did.
Matt (06:42):
Yeah.
And, uh, since I've been homefrom prison, I've been around
it.
Like my friend that's in prisonnow, he was real bad into
addiction, but it was my bestfriend.
Been my best friend for a longtime.
And, um, he knew that he was inaddiction that I was trying to
do.
Right.
And when I first came home fromprison, uh, we talked to him on
the phone, both of us.
(07:03):
And he told me, he was like,just stay away from me, bro.
I ain't no good.
Wow.
And uh, I told him, I said, Iain't gonna stay away.
I'm gonna help you.
And I've been trying to, itdidn't work.
You know, he got caught up, wentto prison, but.
I've been around it and folksare doing it right in front of
me.
It doesn't bother me.
Like I'm past that point in mylife that I'm just looking at
the people now that use drugsand not saying that I'm any
(07:27):
better than the next persons,but my situation is better now.
none (07:31):
Yeah.
Matt (07:32):
I'm just looking at the people that still use the drugs
and put their self and theirkids and their families through
that every day.
And I'm like, how do you keepliving in this rut?
You know, you, you say that youwant better, but you can't do
better if you're still living inthe same rut.
If you want better than, dobetter get off and go do it.
You know?
Toni (07:46):
And once you get to a certain point, it's very hard.
It becomes very hard to haveempathy, because you know what
you went through and what youdid to get clean and you know
the things that you survived.
So sometimes it's hard to hear,I can't do it, I can't do this.
And it's like
Matt (08:04):
I see people out here talking about, oh, I relapsed
and I did this and I did that.
Okay.
Was it your first time aroundit?
Was it your first time?
Relapsing?
That's understandable becauseyou just put yourself in a
situation where you didn't knowhow your body, your mind, and
this stuff was gonna react.
That's a relapse.
10, 11, 12, 13 times.
That's not relapse, that'schoice.
And you choose to do that.
So if, if you don't wannarelapse for 13, 14 times, don't
(08:28):
put yourself in a situation.
You have to change where you'vegot a
Phil (08:31):
choice.
Learn from those mistakes andchoose better.
I
Matt (08:34):
mean, one or two times.
Yeah.
First time you relapse, take oftime you want.
See how strong you are.
If you relapse the second time,the third, fourth, fifth, and
all own up.
However many times you claim yourelapsed was a choice.
You chose to put yourself inthat type of situation.
And if the situation brought itup yourself upon you where you
wasn't expecting, you've got achoice to leave, not sit there.
(08:56):
So that's a choice that youmake.
I've been in situations, I'vechose to stay in a situation
where I've seen it and itdoesn't bother me because I'm
past that point in my life.
I want better and I wanna bebetter.
I wanna do better.
Toni (09:07):
He has too much to lose.
Now, before Matthew didn't, likehe had already lost everything
Matt (09:11):
since I've been home from prison.
Okay.
I got released from prison Aprilthe first of 2020.
I got released from prison andwent to a halfway house for six
months.
I got released from a halfwayhouse on October 9th, 2020.
since I've been home, I got mylicense back after 17 years.
So where'd you go from the
Phil (09:26):
halfway house?
Matt (09:27):
I went to my mom's.
Okay.
Toni (09:28):
Phoenix City.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um.
Matt (09:30):
When I got out of the halfway house, I was on You got
put on probation.
You had five years, had fiveyears at extensive supervised
probation, meaning I had to atleast talk to my probation
officer every week and see himtwice a month.
Toni (09:43):
And that was federal and state he was on.
Right.
I was on state probation aswell.
Matt (09:47):
Yeah.
And, uh, my state probationofficer pop up at the house
anytime.
My federal probation officer, hewill too.
He, he'd come to my job,everything.
Toni (09:54):
but his federal probation officer, John Meredith.
He was the first one to evertreat Matthew like he was a
human being.
A lot of the times, you know,they wear that badge, they wear
that vest and you're just acriminal to them.
Yeah.
You know,
Matt (10:08):
he didn't treat me like that.
He treated me like I was a humanbeing and I respected him for
that.
Toni (10:12):
And he made life so easy for us.
We were so blessed to
Phil (10:15):
get So when did, when did Tony come into the picture?
Matt (10:18):
Uh, I was in prison when me and her got back together.
Phil (10:22):
Really Like y'all letters or phone calls or like,
Matt (10:25):
she had came to town and, uh, she seen my brother and one
of the stores in.
Uh, she was like, I wanna see,uh, your sister.
And they, so she went over totheir house.
So you guys
Phil (10:35):
were as kids, you were friends, like you knew each
other?
I
Toni (10:38):
knew.
I met Matthew when he was 14.
I was years old.
Phil (10:41):
Okay.
Toni (10:42):
14.
And I was 18.
Yeah.
none (10:44):
Oh,
Toni (10:45):
yeah.
But I was best friends with hissister.
Okay.
At the time, and, um, I alwaysthought Matthew was so adorable,
but he was so much younger thanme at the time, you know, so it
was just like, we were all cool.
We were all friends.
We, we hung out at the skatingcenter like it was a long time
ago, really long time ago.
But, um, yeah, it was 2019.
(11:08):
I was living in Florida.
I was at the tail end of a veryunhealthy and toxic 23 year
relationship.
I had two kids of my own whowere the same age as his kids
by, fate may have it.
And, um, we had come up here toColumbus for a weekend visit and
I ran into his brother and I waslike, Hey, I wanna see your
sister.
(11:29):
I haven't seen her in a while.
So we wound up going to wherethey were living at the time,
and, um.
I went and I saw his brother,his sister.
It was the first time I had seenhis mom in over 20 years, you
know.
Wow.
And when I went to visit,Jessica was like, Hey, Matt's on
the phone.
He wants to talk to you.
Really?
Yeah.
(11:49):
So I was talking to him andstuff.
Now mind you, I hadn't seen himor nothing in about 20 years.
'cause I left and moved toFlorida and
Phil (11:58):
for this other relationship with this other
guy.
Yeah.
Toni (12:00):
Yeah.
So I'm talking to him and I'mlike, Hey, come zig me.
I wanna see you.
And he was like, girl, I'mFederal Correctional Institute.
And I was like, okay, well I'llwrite you as soon as I get home.
Wow.
And he was like, okay.
So I got home on a Sunday and Iwent to work Monday.
(12:21):
And while I was at work, I goton the the prison board website,
federal Prison Board, FBOP.
And I looked up Matthew Hand andthere were two individuals that
popped up same age andeverything what that were in
federal prison.
So I had to call his sister andI was like, Hey, what's your
brother's middle name?
So I know which one I'm writingto.
Phil (12:43):
Don't you say loud.
I won't say
Toni (12:45):
out loud, but Yeah.
You don't like your
Phil (12:46):
middle name.
I do.
I love his middle name.
It's a secret.
It ain't for everybody.
Toni (12:52):
But, um, yeah, I wrote him like, as soon as I got home and
we just phone calls, emails, youknow, and then what amazed me,
Matt (13:02):
Federal prison.
I hadn't seen my kids in 12years.
She brought my youngest boy ofthe two to see me for the first
time in 12 years.
So you, you were connected to
Toni (13:11):
His mother's mother made the visit happen.
Matt (13:14):
My boys wanted to reach out to me and find me.
And so their mom reached out to,my mom, found out I was in
prison and stuff.
But for everything to happen,like it did, she brought my mom
and she brought my, my youngestboy to see me for the first time
in 12 years.
Phil (13:30):
How old was he at that point
Matt (13:31):
of 15?
14.
14.
Phil (13:34):
So Jessica and your 14-year-old son, what was what's
No,
Toni (13:38):
Jessica's his sister.
Phil (13:39):
Jessica's your sister, okay.
Right.
So Jessica's the one that thatreaped, that connected to, yeah.
Toni (13:45):
Yeah.
It was because of my friendshipwith her that we wound up
reconnecting.
You know, it was just like, it'sso weird because to look back at
it now, like everything justfell into place.
It was like one thing afteranother just kept happening.
And But, um, I was like, yeah,like two months in I told him, I
was like, I love you.
And I was like, wait, not in aweird, crazy stalker way or
(14:07):
anything like that.
I was like, it was a weird,
Matt (14:09):
crazy way.
Toni (14:10):
I was like, I just, I love your vibe.
I love your spirit.
Like I could tell you're such agood person.
And it's just like, you know, Iwould sit there after we hung up
the phone and stuff, and it'sjust like, what are you doing?
You're like, Tony, what am Idoing?
Yeah.
Tony, what are you doing?
Like, he's in prison.
You're going from the fire tothe frying pan.
(14:32):
Like this is not gonna end wellfor you.
Phil (14:34):
So you, you realize you were in a place of just bad life
choices.
Yeah.
And you're like, oh, this isjust the next pool.
Oh, very poor life
Toni (14:40):
choices.
Yeah.
And um, it was just like, youknow, well, we'll just see where
it goes.
Whatever.
No big deal.
Because Matthew's gonna comehome, Matthew's gonna get back
in the streets.
He's gonna, you know, wind upback on drugs.
And so he was
Phil (14:54):
convinced he was in a better life going, but you
weren't convinced that that'swhat was me.
Matt (14:58):
That's what's so amazing.
Everybody doubted me.
Toni (15:01):
It's not so much doubting him.
Okay.
But I've known it's the realitythat has been for the past two
decades.
I know plenty of people who havegone to jail, gone to prison,
and guys are really smoothtalkers.
Like, I know ladies listening tome can vouch for this.
When they're in jail and theyneed you, they can say all the
right things at all the righttime.
(15:21):
Wow.
And they, guys are just smoothtalkers and Matthew is very
charismatic.
Matthew know.
Why don't you use some bigwords?
Because I have a big vocabulary.
Yeah.
Matthew is very charming and,um,
Phil (15:34):
I think there's some folks listening that probably could.
Take heart and listen hard aboutthat.
Smooth talking.
Uh, yeah,
Toni (15:40):
be careful.
Yeah.
Like I was very guarded, youknow, like I had no intention of
Matt (15:46):
the only thing that I haven't done that I've promised
her or told her while I was inprison.
The only thing that I haven'tdone is a seafood.
I'm not doing it.
Yeah.
He won't even, I'm not.
So
Phil (15:56):
you kinda started pursuing her while you guys were having
phone calls and writing letters.
No,
Toni (16:01):
actually he, he said to me in one of his letters, he was
like, Hey, find me a pen pal.
You know, somebody that I canwrite to and stuff.
And I was like I'll findsomebody for your cellmate, but
I think I'm gonna keep you tomyself for a little while.
Told you it was that crazy.
Matt (16:16):
Yeah.
But like throughout the lettersand the emails and the visits,
phone calls and stuff we talkedabout different things that we
would do in life and stuff.
And she's like, do you likeseafood?
I'm like, yeah, I like shrimp.
You know, shrimp and crab.
And she's like, no, seafood.
And I was like, I'll tryanything once
Phil (16:33):
You bet you won't.
Toni (16:33):
That's a lie.
Yeah, man.
They eat
Matt (16:35):
crazy stuff.
Octopus and muscles and
Toni (16:38):
Yeah.
He won't try.
Yeah.
You see that?
Look,
Matt (16:40):
fish is seafood.
See,
Toni (16:41):
I grew up very differently than Matthew.
Like I grew up in New York.
Um, they
Matt (16:46):
grew up Catholic though, so they, on Christmas, Italian,
they do like the, Feast
Toni (16:51):
of the Seven Fishes for Christmas Eve and like I grew up
very
Matt (16:56):
cultured, waffle House.
I grew up very cultured,
Toni (17:00):
I mean anything.
We'll try anything at leastonce.
We are not scared at all.
Like, I
Matt (17:05):
did try, uh, calamari and it had a good flavor.
I'm a texture guy though, andit's real chewy.
Like I can't even chew gum.
It is chewy.
Yeah.
Yeah, bro.
I can't even chew gum.
Wow.
Because it's chewy.
You have to keep chewing andchewing it chewy.
And I'm just like, I don't haveenough tea for this man.
Phil (17:21):
Wow.
So this is a good moment to justgive us the, the short version,
Tony, of kind of you in thebeginning and coming up and
just, just a short version ofkind of your life to bring up to
the point where now you got, youconnect with Matt.
So,
Toni (17:35):
I grew up in New York.
I was born in California, grewup in New York.
Um, there are six of us total.
Okay.
Broken home.
My mom and dad split up when Iwas like four years old.
my brother died of a heroinoverdose when I was seven.
He was 21 years old.
Wow.
Was
Phil (17:51):
drugs prevalent just throughout your whole family?
Yeah.
Toni (17:53):
My mother was an addict.
my dad was somewhat of analcoholic.
Um, they had a very abusive,toxic relationship in the end.
Um, my mother also was in alesbian relationship when I was
growing up and in New York inthe late eighties, early
nineties, that was taboo.
It wasn't as prevalent as it isnow.
Nobody talked about it, I gotmade fun of a lot because of
(18:15):
that situation.
So when Tony was backed into itscorner, Tony came out swinging.
You know, I grew up fighting alot.
I was a fighter.
You know, and so I, I actuallyleft New York when I turned 16.
I moved to North Carolina tolive with my dad.
Phil (18:30):
'cause you were just fed up with what was going on.
Yeah,
Toni (18:32):
I just, me and my mom had a very unhealthy relationship.
Phil (18:36):
Were you using as No, no.
Toni (18:38):
I mean, smoking weed.
Military matters.
Yeah.
I didn't get introduced to otherdrugs until I had moved to
Columbus.
I was a little bit older.
I was in my early twenties.
Phil (18:49):
Was your dad in Columbus?
Um, is that Yeah,
Toni (18:51):
because my dad was a tattoo artist.
Phil (18:53):
Wow.
So, so he had left New York?
Yeah.
Toni (18:56):
My dad, well my dad left New York.
He lived in New Jersey.
He first, we lived in NorthCarolina.
Yeah.
Anywhere where there's a majormilitary base.
none (19:05):
Okay.
Toni (19:05):
That's where my dad's business was, because he's a
tattoo artist, so, yeah, thatmakes sense.
He wound up moving here.
He worked on Victory Drive withFalcon, who is a very well-known
tattoo artist.
Like they ran Columbus in thelate eighties, early nineties.
So we moved here because of thebusiness from Fort Benning.
A lot of rangers, you know, mydad had a lot of friends here.
(19:28):
And I, it was my early twentieswith my first ex-husband that
it, it's always because ofsomebody of the opposite sex,
you know?
It was like, okay, let's startdoing drugs.
Basically cocaine was at aparty, cocaine was at a party.
It's your own person.
You make your own choice.
Yeah, you're right.
But I'm saying it's always likesomeone involving the
Phil (19:49):
environments, right?
You put yourself in a situationwhere there's an opportunity,
right.
Or a temptation, and you're, andyou just, especially me.
Toni (19:57):
cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my
forehead.
So it was like the worst youwere, the more attracted to you.
I am.
And that is the end of partthree of Matt and Tony's story.
Tony will go deeper into herstory next week and she'll
really will talk.
(20:19):
Tony will go deeper into herstory next week and she will
share.
Many things that were rootissues and challenges in her
life, which helped to contributeto the fact that she just made
bad life decisions.
She'll talk about her self imageand, uh, so many other things,
and it's gonna be veryinsightful, and I think you're
(20:39):
gonna enjoy it.
We'll get to hear a little bitmore as Tony concludes her
story.
Next week you'll hear more abouthow Matt and Tony's relationship
just blossomed.
F beginning with that pen palrelationship and just going into
so much more.
You'll want to be back next weekand we look forward to being
(21:00):
with you again next week.
I hope you have a great rest ofyour day today and a great rest
of your week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (21:07):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(21:30):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (21:46):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.